General Debate 13 April 2025

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NeverMindTheBollocks

So, the USD is weakening against the Kiwi, and Brent crude is less than US$65 / barrel.

Why then have NZ petrol prices barely moved since Liberation Day?
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April 13, 2025 8:00am
- igm
  
  Why are we getting hammered on 95 octane?
  Was the deal not 8c above 91, not 15c upwards.
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:22am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I thought petrol did drop about 4 cents
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:29am
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Rockets rising, feathers falling!
  
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  April 13, 2025 10:25am
- Stu2
  
  How long would it take cheaper crude to reach Singapore, be refined and get there?
  
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  April 13, 2025 11:39am
  - Ghost
    
    Doesn’t work that way or they wouldn’t increase petrol straight away with each oil price rise.
    
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    April 13, 2025 11:42am
    - MCōs
      
      Could be something to do with the exchange rate or whatever else the petrol companies can think of to keep the price up.
      As I recall the price of petrol was whatever the government said it was about forty years ago
      
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      April 13, 2025 12:09pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        It seems to be the only retail product the price of which is so rapidly adjusted according to its price on the commodity markets.
        
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        April 13, 2025 12:39pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Nope. The exchange rate has moved in our favour and crude is bigly down (was around $US80 per barrel of Brent crude, since Liberation Day has flirted with $60, now circa $65).
        
        Petrol in NZ is largely priced around ex Singapore refinery output but can be more or less immediate via trading.
        
        Absolutely no excuse from NZ petrol companies in not passing the falling price on to NZ motorists.
        
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        April 13, 2025 12:48pm
      - Jack5
        
        Stu2’s … How long would it take cheaper crude to reach Singapore?
        
        Oil prices are locked in ahead by futures contracts and “contracts for difference” (CFD’s).
        
        This is the Investopedia explanation of CFD’s:
        
        A contract for differences (CFD) allows a trader to exchange the difference in the value of a financial product between the time the contract opens and closes without owning the actual underlying security.
        
        Oil markets in America, Europe, and Asia mean oil can usually be traded around the clock, at least Monday to Friday.
        
        https://www.fortrade.com/a/answers/cfd-trading/crude-oil-trading-hours-what-time-can-you-trade-it/
        
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        April 13, 2025 3:03pm
- Ra Henare
  
  I presume you have never heard of purchasing ahead or understanding the Crude Oil spot price to Petrol at the pump cycle.
  
  Todays petrol will have been bought at the crude oil price months ago.
  
  Todays CRUDE Oil price will take some time(months) to work its way thru to the pump.
  
  or are you just trolling for a Sunday morning windup
  
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  April 13, 2025 1:39pm
  - Countrygirl
    
    The problem seems to be that when it goes up overseas we have to straight away pay a higher price as that is what the oil companies will be buying new supplies in at. But when it drops we have always got lots of higher priced product sitting waiting.
    
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    April 13, 2025 2:25pm
- ChrisB
  
  There is a 10cent drop coming this week
  
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  April 13, 2025 2:10pm
Yvette

Treaty Principles Resurrection – Without the Treaty
Is there enough bewilderment out there yet to warrant a new Bill which restates ACT’s Government fundamentals without mention of the Treaty – or, except perhaps in its Introduction: that the confusion now surrounding the Treaty, and muddying supposed citizens equality in voting rights and responsibilities, warrants such a simple definition of New Zealanders’ democratic rights, put in one accessible place, and without the controversy that surrounds the Treaty.

A bill that states the Government has the right to govern, all legally held property is protected, and all New Zealanders have equal social democratic rights and responsibilities – ACT’s three article’s but without the bloody Treaty.

At Waitangi, 1840, the “4th clause” apparently orally uttered before the signing, was “E mea ana te Kawana ko nga whakapono katoa o Ingarani, o nga Weteriana, o Roma, me te ritenga Maori hoki e tiakina ngatahitia e ia”, that “The Governor says that the several faiths (beliefs) of England, of the Wesleyans, of Rome and also of Maori custom shall alike be protected” – and the only solution allowing “alike” is that: the Government be religiously neutral.
And so to this end, the New Zealand Government and all its services should be secular.

To be quite clearly transparent, any miscreant lingering of State condoned religious te Ao references should be then later eliminated in a similar way it is proposed presently to remove Treaty Principles applications from law which doesn’t warrant their mention – about 28 of them apparently.
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April 13, 2025 8:01am
- sungsamning
  
  Yes, that could be a useful Plan B.
  
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  April 13, 2025 10:43am
Cassandra

A proposal endorsed by Richard Prebble: a binding Constitutional Referendum asking the following three questions would give voters their chance to have a say on matters central to our democracy and way of life:

1. Do you support a law change enabling a four-year term of Parliament? (Prebs is opposed, giving the horrifying prospect of another year of Ardern as the reason).

2. Should the voting age be lowered from 18 years to 16 years? No!!

3. Should the Maori seats be retained or abolished? Abolished!!
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April 13, 2025 8:01am
- Yvette
  
  And, Cassandra, since it is a binding Constitutional Referendum, add or put first –
  • the Government has the right to govern. Yes
  • all legally held property is protected. Yes
  • all New Zealanders have equal social democratic rights and responsibilities. Yes
  • the New Zealand Government and all its services should be secular. Yes
  
  get a proper bang for the referenda buck
  
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  April 13, 2025 8:12am
  - NK
    
    Yvette, Luxon likes none of those principles. He said as much when they were included in the TPB.
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:06am
    - Yvette
      
      NK, is it because these statements were in the TPB that he disliked them.
      As Prime Minister who has said sovereignty lies with the Crown, would he contradict his position by opposing ‘the Government has the right to govern’ when that is his current work?
      
      And regarding secularity, being Christian can Luxon think Jesus would have forgone inserting his views in inappropriate areas like water supply, which at present are subject to exclusive pagan intrusion – like the Maori Advisory Council to the Water Regulator, Taumata Arowai.
      
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      April 13, 2025 10:35am
  - Scott
    
    Yvette – disagree with the secular part. That’s too much of a cudgel for governments to bash Christianity while promoting every woke idea like DEI and climate change and all things trans.
    
    Historically the French went down the secular route with the French revolution and that didn’t end well.
    
    Lastly I don’t think that western civilisation will survive without Christianity. We need to be more Christian, not less.
    
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    April 13, 2025 11:14am
    - Yvette
      
      Scott – Yvette – disagree with the secular part.
      
      Scott, I suspected you might.
      
      “The Governor says that the several faiths (beliefs) of England, of the Wesleyans, of Rome and also of Maori custom shall alike be protected” – and the only solution allowing “alike” is that: the Government be religiously neutral.
      
      “Religious neutrality” is fine. It allows of course individual beliefs to inform individual responses and official recognition where appropriate, but not Maori beliefs above all other beliefs ad nauseam – above Islam on March 15, above all others in opening motorways and in regard to fresh water, and on and on.
      (And the behaviour of Luxon, excluding more “conversation” than he promoted, is not the way I would have desired in a spiritual guide – sorry)
      
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      April 13, 2025 1:18pm
      - Scott
        
        Yes I agree with must of your points. I think Luxon going to India and bowing down to hindu pagan gods was very upsetting, certainly from a Christian point of view.
        
        However the constitution containing an explicit injunction, the govt will be secular, is a very bad idea. Secularism is not a positive good in itself and will encourage many bad actors and many bad persecutions, as it has done in the past.
        
        As I say, I think NZ needs to be more Christian, NZ needs to recover its soul.
        
        Lastly I would state, as I have often stated in the past, the people will have a religion.
        Right now the ruling religion is wokeness. I’d happily exchange 365 days a year of wokeness for an hour a week in church.
        
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        April 13, 2025 2:32pm
    - Northshoredoc
      
      What type of Christianity Scott?
      
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      April 13, 2025 1:52pm
  - kiwi_chileno
    
    Those are articles of a written Constitution: NZ desperately needs one.
    
    Here’s another article: “Persons are born free and equal, in dignity and rights.” That’s Article 1 of Chile’s current, Pinochet-era Constitution. And Article 19 (2): “Equality before the law. In Chile there are neither privileged persons nor groups…Neither the law nor any authority whatsoever may establish arbitrary differences.” https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Chile_2021?lang=en
    
    The Constitution is one of the blessings of the Pinochet-era. Two attempts to replace it since 2022 have failed: the texts of both new Constitutions were rejected by Chileans in referendum. (Chileans also directly elected the members of the conventions writing the texts.)
    
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    April 13, 2025 11:16am
    - Mike
      
      Tell me more about the ‘blessing of the Pinochet era.’ Did he make the trains run on time?
      
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      April 13, 2025 12:21pm
      - kiwi_chileno
        
        For starters… the Chilean Economic Miracle, a seven-fold increase in real per capita incomes because of economic reforms.
        
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        April 13, 2025 3:15pm
    - David Garrett
      
      kiwi: No treaty in Chile mate…a written constitution here would be an absolute disaster.
      
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      April 13, 2025 12:42pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        DG
        Correct.
        Luxon would probably ask Palmer and Finlayson to come up with a draft.
        New Zealand’s eulogy.
        
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        April 13, 2025 1:22pm
  - Paulus
    
    Luxon would not give it any chance because he has made up his mind – no compromise Luxon, whilst he remains Leader of National.
    Winston is beginning to turn on him gradually, as he will hve more time shortly, when his term as Deputy PM finshes, and Seymour takes over, as in reality he does not like Seymour, and will dislike him more in the next 18 months..
    
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    April 13, 2025 2:09pm
- peterwn
  
  There was a non binding referendum in 1968 (held independently of a general election) with two questions:
  1. A 4 year Parliament – resoundingly defeated.
  2. Repeal mandatory closing time of 6pm for pubs (taps off 6pm, bar to be cleared by 6.15pm) – ie 10pm closing. Of course various Revs, temperance people and other do-gooders campaigned against it. Even the breweries who owned most of the pubs at the time were not keen on it because it would increase labour costs for each pint sold. Resounding ‘yes’ vote. Kiwi Keith the Prime Minister said that Parliament was going to take its time with implementing it. The uproar was so great that Parliament speedily implemented it.
  
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  April 13, 2025 8:31am
  - pdm
    
    pw that was in 1967 my first voting experience.
    
    No idea how I voted on the Parliamentary Term but as a 21 year old male was always for 10 o’clock closing which started in early October 1967.
    
    I was in Taupo and on the first night we started at The Lake Hotel, moved to de Bretts and then settled in for an hour or so at The Spa Hotel.
    
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    April 13, 2025 8:51am
    - G152
      
      I was working at the Evening Post as a pressman and spent that evening in the Britannia.
      
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      April 13, 2025 9:10am
      - Colville
        
        Ahhh the Evening Post.
        
        I spent many a freezing wet afternoon after school delivering what was then a decent paper! 45 years ago….
        
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        April 13, 2025 9:39am
    - alwyn.a
      
      Did you drive from pub to pub?
      People, like me, tended to be pretty lax about obeying the drink and drive rules in those days.
      I was in Wellington at the time. As I remember the evening the barmen went on strike unless they got higher pay for working after 6.00 pm and most of the pubs were closed. At least that is what I think I remember.
      
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      April 13, 2025 11:24am
      - pdm
        
        Sure did Alwyn.
        
        Sober drivers on pub crawls were yet to be invented.
        
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        April 13, 2025 12:48pm
      - OlderChas
        
        A Devonport pub frequented by lots of Navy personnel had been geared up for a sail0r’s 21st before the barmen strike happened. Negotiations with the boss resulted in 300 jugs of beer being poured before closing at 6pm (strike rules) and the bar cleared apart from the sailor and his guests. Bossman stayed behind to ‘supervise’ the sailors cleaning up when all the jugs were emptied by 10pm!
        
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        April 13, 2025 12:51pm
      - peterwn
        
        That was a few years before the breathalyser and blood tests were introduced. Prior to that police and traffic officers had to rely on various primitive tests to try and prove drink-drive and a smart lawyer could often convince the beak that these tests were rubbish.
        
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        April 13, 2025 1:16pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Grok(AI) advises.
      
      [Mod – debate topics without using AI to write them]
      
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      April 13, 2025 1:55pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        [Mod – people on this blog are intelligent enough to have conversations without resorting to posting replies from AI. Plenty of other blogs you can go to if copy and paste from AI is all you want to do]
        
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        April 13, 2025 5:28pm
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  The more relevant issue is whether we really want this referendum to happen.
  
  While there’s likely to be near-consensus on KB, with the possible exception of the first question, it’s not at all obvious that the nation as a whole would vote in the same way, and if it doesn’t then the situation actually gets worse than it would have been if the referendum hadn’t happened
  
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  April 13, 2025 8:32am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    A good point Dudley. On a centre-right blog most of us assume that the general public will have the good sense to withhold voting rights from kids who know a lot less about the world than they think they do. But the decades-old capture of our education system by progressive activists makes this a shaky assumption.
    
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    April 13, 2025 9:33am
  - PurplePen
    
    I hear you. But just because the people might vote no on something doesn’t mean you can’t ask them again. Although you’d probably have to let a half or full generation go by. Didn’t this happen with marijuana?
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:13am
- Observer of Life
  
  4. Should we enact legislation that 1) makes all New Zealander’s equal in the eyes of the law 2) all laws to be colour blind 3) NZ parliament has full power to govern and make laws 4) every citizen has the right to own and dispose of their property as they see fit.
  
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  April 13, 2025 8:49am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    If Seymour comes back with a simple bill that says all NZers are equal in every aspect of life and in the community, then he will get that bill over the line, Labour may even vote for that, he has to change tact, if he simply tries to bring back the bill then it’s going to cause more hatred and angst
    
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    April 13, 2025 9:32am
    - imalwaysright
      
      His biggest mistake was putting the word “treaty” in the title.
      
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      April 13, 2025 10:48am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Possibly, but he also let the vulgar left, and even vulgar media were portraying the bill as changing the treaty before there even was a bill, he should have expected that crap and been ahead of the game
        
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        April 13, 2025 1:02pm
    - Cassandra
      
      From DG: tack, old boy.
      
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      April 13, 2025 10:49am
    - Paulus
      
      Tauranga MP Sam Uffindell has a similar bill in the bag currently awaiting being drawn but Luxon will stop it.
      
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      April 13, 2025 2:14pm
- Mike
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I don’t know why people get upset about the Māori seats. There is a simple mechanism to abolish them. simply persuade voters on the Māori roll to transfer to the general roll. Perhaps advocates of forcible abolition fear their inability to be persuasive.
  
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  April 13, 2025 8:53am
  - Yvette
    
    Mike, at the moment it appears to be headed in the other direction
    The hikoi organised by the Maori Party was it seems a recruitment drive
    
    Te Pāti Māori MP Hana-Rāwhiti Maipi-Clarke was warmly greeted by an audience of 35,000 outside the place she was suspended from for 24 hours just a week ago.
    She has been an international viral sensation over the past week after leading a world-shaking haka in Parliament’s debating chamber.
    She called for the Māori in the crowd to switch to the Māori electoral roll.
    “If every single Māori person registered on the Māori roll, we would have 20 automatic Māori seats in Parliament.”
    https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2024/11/19/i-ripped-that-in-half-and-chucked-it-away-hana-rawhiti-delivers-speech-after-world-shaking-haka/.
    
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    April 13, 2025 9:37am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    The TPM are going to stand in the other electorates, they seem to think they will take votes off the government, but all it will do is take Labour and green votes, all it does is take the edge of Labour where they may be close to winning an electorate.
    
    It may also get people to stay on the main roll and not move to the separatist roll
    
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    April 13, 2025 9:37am
  - Colville
    
    Māori (nor Labour) will ever willingly give up the huge electrol advantage that the racist seats give them.
    
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    April 13, 2025 9:41am
  - Cassandra
    
    Mike: turkeys don’t vote for an early Christmas. Maoris (and everyone else) don’t like privileges being removed.
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:16am
    - Steve Todd
      
      Mike: turkeys don’t vote for an early Christmas.
      
      Maybe not, but that does not detract from the truth of his comment.
      
      One way Māori might be persuaded to give up the Māori seats would be to switch from MMP, to STV in large electoral areas (EAs). If there were 28 seats in the South Island (2 × 14 EAs; quota = 6.67) and 90 seats in the North Island (6 × 15 EAs; quota = 6.25), then those Māori currently on the Māori roll would have the numbers to elect two or three Māori electorate-style candidates in each of the six North Island EAs, and at least one, possibly, two, candidates in the South Island.
      
      And, of course, those Māori currently on the General roll will also have the numbers to elect candidates that are to their liking, too.
      
      All 118 MPs would be directly elected, and more than 93% of all voters would be represented by someone they helped to elect. Unfortunately, a switch to my STV scheme is not going to happen, either.
      
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      April 13, 2025 12:48pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Main thing is they are Turkeys
      
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      April 13, 2025 1:03pm
  - AitchW
    
    I wonder if there is a trigger point at which the Maori seats would be abolished, ie if there are fewer than X number of people on the roll it is closed?
    Or is it possible that a Maori electorate could be decided by a single voter?
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:43am
    - Jethrod
      
      It certainly looked like it in Tamaki Makaurau, at the last election. May be a different thing next time.
      
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      April 13, 2025 11:19am
    - Mike
      
      Theoretically, yes. In reality. the seats would go if enough Maori were confident they would be properly represented through the general roll.
      
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      April 13, 2025 11:32am
      - Jigsaw
        
        It’s not just electroral representation that some Maori crave, its the adoption of policies that are in general racist and abhorent in the extreme to most voters. The same in local body elections-Maori candidates who stand with policies that are acceptable to most people get elected, those who stand with radical polices don’t get elected -what is so unusual about that?
        
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        April 13, 2025 1:21pm
      - Paulus
        
        Why not, if they are duly elected as being good people to represent the Constituancy as there already, are not on the Maori roll.
        Same with Local Government.
        
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        April 13, 2025 2:17pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      @AitchW @ 10:43AM
      
      The number of Māori seats is determined by the Māori Electoral Population (MEP), not by the number of people on the Māori roll. The MEP (520,569) is divided by the South Island General Electoral quota (70,037), which gives 7.43; therefore, seven seats – see https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/number-of-electorates-and-electoral-populations-2023-census/. (The figure of 7.43 is up from 7.23 following the 2018 census and Māori Electoral Option.)
      
      Only if that quotient falls to 0.50 or less would no Māori seat or seats be required to be established. As you can imagine, that is not going to happen anytime soon.
      
      See also sections 45(3)(b) and 45(12) of the Electoral Act 1993, here, https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0087/latest/whole.html#DLM308513.
      
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      April 13, 2025 12:08pm
- surfing
  
  Maori seats would be abolished, given Maori are the minority.
  
  On that basis, we’d also remove all Maori discrimination from law, and Maori would not be happy at all. Good. They can go to school and be educated and get proper jobs.
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:07am
  - Taieri
    
    They can go to school and be educated and get proper jobs
    ———-
    
    The vast majority of them have gone to school and have proper jobs.
    
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    April 13, 2025 9:52am
    - Jigsaw
      
      A large number of Maori now go to schools that don’t teach them any of the skills necessary to get proper jobs!
      
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      April 13, 2025 1:22pm
      - AitchW
        
        But they do a mean as karakia….
        
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        April 13, 2025 6:38pm
  - PurplePen
    
    It’s only some Maori that would be unhappy. I’d wager they would be a minority of Maori. It’s just that they’re very noisy and the government of the day always bends.
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:15am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Sad to see the blatant racism on KB.
    
    It used to be that racism was not tolerated. Now it appears regularly.
    
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    April 13, 2025 2:03pm
  - Paulus
    
    Figuratively in the minority, but they consider that they are above that position, and are paramount in all things now, and expect more all the time.
    Despite there are no Maori only very part ones.
    
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    April 13, 2025 2:19pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  If NZ had had MMP in 1984 Labours reforms wouldnt have happened and the country would now be a third world shit hole and I really mean a third world shit hole. I voted against MMP and would do so again knowing the chaos it would cause. Governments unable to implement reforms for the benefit of the majority held to ransom by the minority.
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:09am
  - Cassandra
    
    FPP has problems (I like the French FPP runoff system) but MMP is hopeless. Still, it ain’t gonna change.
    
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    April 13, 2025 9:16am
- Eastlander
  
  1. Should be raised to five years after the next election, and once essential business is concluded, put back to three.
  
  2. Voting age should be raised to 21, the franchise denied to people who have criminal records.
  
  3. Maori seats should be abolished. Persons on the Maori roll should not be permitted to enroll on the general role thereafter as they are adequately represented by their Iwi (this prohibition will apply to their descendants as well).
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:10am
  - Michael Sommerville
    
    No , Yes , Yes but won’t happen, sadly.
    
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    April 13, 2025 9:27am
    - Quail
      
      The list should be abolished.
      120 politicians for 5 million population is far too many .
      The devil finds work for idle hands as has been amply demonstrated recently.
      Accountability at the ballot box would return as the Parties and their electeds who would appoint their supporting staff would then be responsible for the actions of these appointees.
      And then all politicians would be accountable at the ballot not just 50%.
      Oops didn’t NZ once have a similar system? ?
      
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      April 13, 2025 11:07am
      - Ian Boag
        
        all politicians would be accountable at the ballot not just 50%
        
        Yep. And – see latest UK result – 35% of the vote can get you 60% of the parliament. Even KBers were denouncing this as undemocratic as I recall. To be fair, it used to take a bit over 40% of the vote here to get 60% of the parliament.
        
        And of course getting the most votes was no guarantee of getting the most seats … eg 1981 when Nat got fewer votes than Labour and more seats.
        
        Perhaps we should have a(nother) referendum on the subject
        
        Bearing in mind that the youngest voters who ever participated in an FPP election are now about 50 ….
        
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        April 13, 2025 11:19am
  - David Garrett
    
    Eastlander: I wholeheartedly agree with number 2; there was a very good reason the age of majority was 21 back in the day – and interestingly people still celebrate 21st birthdays – and that in the US, you can’t run for president unless you are over 35. And that was a time when a 35 year old was well into middle age.
    
    What is even more ridiculous about the 16 year old voting age is that the very same people pushing that also want to increase the age of full criminal responsibility to 20 or even 25, on the grounds that the brain is often not fully developed until then, especially in males.
    
    So they want people to have a say in who governs the country when they are little more than children, but not face the full consequences of their actions until almost ten years later.
    
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    April 13, 2025 9:33am
    - PurplePen
      
      Should also raise drinking age back up to 20 or 21. Social issues and effect on brain not yet fully developed etc being the main rationale.
      
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      April 13, 2025 10:17am
      - David Garrett
        
        Purple: I know the drinking age in California remains 21…it all seemed a bit ridiculous when I first went there at age 20, and had already had 18 months drinking in English pubs. But not so ridiculous now.
        
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        April 13, 2025 11:11am
    - Eastlander
      
      They’ve accidentally stumbled on wisdom there, 25 as the voting age is a very good notion.
      
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      April 13, 2025 10:45am
    - Ian Boag
      
      they want people to have a say in who governs the country
      
      OTOH we should ensure that 80+ year olds should have a say in dictating what the country will be like after they cark it ….
      
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      April 13, 2025 11:24am
      - DukeOfAngus
        
        Right. My grandchiildren have a much bigger stake in the future of this country and world than I do. At my age -79 – it is tempting to do, and vote for, whatever is expedient in making my remaining life easier.
        
        Thjat’s why I vote for the future – especially the environment. But the Greens have moved away from that, which leaves me witha diemma.
        
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        April 13, 2025 12:59pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Plenty of 80+ year olds will love onto their 90s; some will surpass 100.
        
        By contrast, a number of 16 year olds won’t make their 21st birthday.
        
        What was your point again, Ian?
        
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        April 13, 2025 1:27pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @Bolllocks
        
        “Plenty” of 80-year olds live to 100. Yeah right.
        
        “Plenty” of 80+ year olds have gone soft in the head. Not many sub-20’s in dementia care.
        
        The 80+ lot don’t have to worry much about how the world will be in 20 years time as they will be pushing up daisies.
        
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        April 13, 2025 5:44pm
    - GJM
      
      If you can be drafted and go to war and be killed at 18, then you should be able to have your say via a vote and have drink
      
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      April 13, 2025 4:19pm
- sungsamning
  
  Hell no!
  No.
  Abolished.
  
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  April 13, 2025 10:44am
hookerphil

Wont happen but can have my No No Yes anyway.
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April 13, 2025 8:07am
artemisia

The 2025 Budget is a little over a month away. Cuts might not be ‘shock and awe’ but I am picking there will be many households impacted, not least by job losses in the public sector. Cuts should be no surprise, many well signalled.

One example. The Tertiary Education Commission has been requested to find a further 5% cut in operating funding subject to confirmation next month. So terrible, says the PSA, there’ll be increased workloads and burnout.

However. Back in August 2023 the NZ Initiative took a look at non-academic uni staffing in their report Blessing or Bloat? Non-Academic Staffing at New Zealand Universities in Comparative Perspective

The conclusion – “Universities do need administrators, but as budget crunches bite at universities across New Zealand, can our universities really afford to go on propping up some of the largest administrative bureaucracies anywhere in the world?”

It is possible that there have been changes since, and that current levels of non academic staffing are justified. If so, the TEC will be able to show the rationale, and perhaps will be able to point to increased and more complex regulations.

Ministry for (a lot less) Regulation – step right down.
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April 13, 2025 8:17am
- Paulus
  
  Am I wrong but have not only some 7,500 Public Servants been disestablished out of some 68.000 ans a number of those were actually pre-created vacancies ?
  
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  April 13, 2025 2:23pm
  - artemisia
    
    Certainly cancelled vacancies were announced in the numbers, and there was talk about some being created close to the election. Because reasons. We-the-people may never know, but there’s a good chance Ministers have asked questions, and will form opinions. Not necessarily in a good way.
    
    Of course cancelling vacancies when a bit of pressure goes on should in any case raise questions about how much the roles were needed if they could be scrapped so quickly …..
    
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    April 13, 2025 2:36pm
Gravelroad

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360650274/damien-grant-rising-meth-busts-make-our-drug-policy-feels-more-insanity
This is an opinion piece about the increasing drug use damage caused by the huge amount of meth being imported into Aotearoa.
Towards the end, the writer, Mr Grant, offers this advice:
“Here is where I want this short journey to end. With the idea, planted in your imagination, that perhaps there is a better way than harsher policing, longer sentences and paying police to drip test tubes into the sewer each week to measure their ineffectiveness.”
I have read the article a couple of times.
Am at a loss to know what the “better way” might entail – unless it pertains to the references regarding making meth use legal?
If it was legal, what difference would that make to useage? It might just make the product less expensive to purchase, which would encourage more addictions – wouldn’t it?
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April 13, 2025 8:30am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Adam Smith would certainly agree.
  
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  April 13, 2025 8:36am
- Paulus
  
  Thank God it is not being imported to New Zealand !
  
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  April 13, 2025 8:37am
  - Colville
    
    na just the good old fashioned white people’s drugs of coke, MD and ketamine come into New Zealand.
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:49am
    - Gravelroad
      
      How much ketamine comes illegally into NZ?
      Is it more expensive than meth to purchase? Or less expensive?
      
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      April 13, 2025 11:44am
- peterwn
  
  I know someone who has taken meth over the years, it just about totaled her. The irony of it was she could have got a vastly greater buzz out of life by living normally – high paid professional with satisfying career, enjoying her interests and hobbies and so on. Instead she has always lived in the twilight. If only young people could understand the choices and implications early on.
  
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  April 13, 2025 8:40am
  - David Garrett
    
    Peterwn: Indeed. Was it Mark Twain who said “youth is wasted on the young”?
    
    Fifty years ago I knew this Glasgow hard man who said “Kiwi, with ma heed [head] on your shudders [shoulders] we coul rule the fuckin world”
    
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    April 13, 2025 9:38am
    - David Garrett
      
      It was GBS apparently.
      
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      April 13, 2025 9:59am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Oscar Wilde said that.
      
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      April 13, 2025 7:15pm
- Philview
  
  I think New Zealand would soon turn into a failed State if we legalise Meth. Imagine having Meth outlets like we have all those Vape Stores.
  
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  April 13, 2025 8:47am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    It would help get rid of the no hopers
    
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    April 13, 2025 9:43am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Worth a look …
    
    https://www.portugal.com/op-ed/portugal-drug-laws-under-decriminalization-are-drugs-legal-in-portugal/
    
    They decriminalised it in 2001.
    
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    April 13, 2025 11:28am
    - Jack5
      
      Ian Boag link on Portugal’s drugs decriminalisation …
      
      To the right of the link is an article on Portugal’s capital gains tax, which is topical given the on-off-again CGT debate in New Zealand.
      
      The article includes this sentence: “Residents of Portugal are taxed on 50% of the profit from a property sale, with the amount added to their total income and taxed at their marginal rate.”
      
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      April 13, 2025 6:58pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Portugal’s capital gains tax, which is topical given the on-off-again CGT debate
        
        er – so what? – this thread was about decriminalising drug possession. Not legalising ..
        
        As far as the CGT thing goes a 50% discount is pretty standard. AFAIK it’s what happens in Oz and Canada. No big deal.
        
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        April 13, 2025 7:26pm
- Mike
  
  I think that from an article railing against prohibition one could conclude that the author believe methamphetamine should freely and legally available or at least controlled in a regime similar to those for alcohol or tobacco.
  More puzzling was this statement:
  
  fresh harvest of young men seduced by the profits into temporary wealth, eventual incarceration and libertarianism
  
  Does prison time make people libertarians?
  
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  April 13, 2025 8:50am
  - AitchW
    
    In that Libertarians seem to advocate the abolition of prisons, yes.
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:26am
    - Mike
      
      I wasn’t aware that libertarians generally advocated abolishing prisons. Seems like a fringe position (even more fringe than most libertarian ideas).
      
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      April 13, 2025 12:28pm
- Simon
  
  Meth dealers should be executed and meth users two years prison to dry out.
  
  But crime is now part of NZ culture. Grant himself being a convicted fraudster. There is crime everywhere.
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:21am
  - artemisia
    
    Meth users – if they front up voluntarily and there is space available – one and only one rehab opportunity. Strictly controlled, limited time, not easy living with open-ended free board and lodgings.
    
    Keep an eye on, test, if it works all good. If not, well stupid is as stupid does.
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:34am
- MCōs
  
  The damage is caused by the drug use
  Damage is also caused by a plethora of other feel good/addictive activities both legal and illegal and there will always be people wanting to make a buck out of the situation
  
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  April 13, 2025 12:26pm
- pb
  
  Lock them up. Its not easy. But its simple.
  
  Follow President B: https://x.com/nayibbukele
  
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  April 13, 2025 5:57pm
peterwn

Palm Sunday from an alternative perspective:
Fools! For I also had my hour;
One far fierce hour and sweet:
There was a shout about my ears,
And palms before my feet.
G K Chesterton
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April 13, 2025 8:33am
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Palm Sunday was the day Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, materially poor, without the status of office. The people came out and cheered for him. But he knew from the prophesies of Isaiah, written in 700BC, that this would be short-lived adulation and he was destined for a cruel death.
  
  It has been prophesied that next time he comes, he will have the status of the King of Kings – he will be the ruler of the world, and will come in power and strength and will be resplendent. He will be a sight to behold!
  
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  April 13, 2025 10:45am
  - Don Beckett
    
    In those days, if a king rode into Jerusalem on a horse, he was declaring that the Israelites were going to war. If he rode on a donkey, he was bringing or proclaiming peace.
    Many people wanted to crown him king – but the ruling religious class had other ideas – he was upsetting their apple cart, so he had to go.
    
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    April 13, 2025 12:05pm
  - JohnRidd
    
    Zechariah 9:9
    “Rejoice greatly, O Daughter Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you, righteous and having salvation is he, humble and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”
    
    The thing is, Jesus and everyone else at the time knew that if he was to be a messiah, he had to ride in on a donkey to fulfill the prophesy.
    
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    April 13, 2025 3:27pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

A family shattered by someone driving so carelessly that a charge of attempted murder could have been justified. Criminal gets Home D.

Huge kudos for the NZ medical people. Nothing but contempt for the Judge.

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/558008/waipu-crash-leaves-northland-couple-s-lives-shattered-driver-sentenced
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April 13, 2025 8:41am
- Simon
  
  Yep when crime is now part of NZ culture. These criminals are just on a NZ journey.
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:23am
- Ghost
  
  Waste of time, wouldn’t be found guilty of attempted murder.
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:45am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    If you are so careless of the consequences of your actions such that someone dies then you can be convicted of murder. In other words, intent is not always necessary. Example: if you let off sky rockets in a crowded nightclub, thinking only that it was the dog’s bollix.
    
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    April 13, 2025 7:23pm
  - peterwn
    
    A manslaughter charge may fly in such cases and the Police and Crown Prosecutor will actually lay a manslaughter charge in very serious cases. In the early days of motoring, juries often acquitted drivers charged with manslaughter even though the usual criteria were met. Hence the ‘careless driving’ and ‘reckless driving’ causing death offences were created as it was easier to procure convictions for these charges. And yet, reckless driving causing death is really manslaughter when you think about it.
    
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    April 13, 2025 7:46pm
- PeeJay
  
  Particularly galling was this summary from the judge.
  
  “”Your actions were deliberate and in my view you showed a complete disregard for others, including your own children.”
  
  Then 8 months home D.
  
  Well that will show her.
  
  Note there was no remorse nor apology. Big scary words from the bench and then the proverbial slap over the wrist with the wet bus ticket.
  
  At times like this you can’t help but think the so-called justice system is such a joke that it should go under a rebranding exercise – no justice system more like!
  
  I knew an ex-police prosecutor years back and it was because of this exact thing that he quit – he was sick and tired of bringing rock solid cases against known criminals just to see soft judges let them walk. Many of his colleagues in the police also feel the same he tells me and it’s a major reason for low morale and high departure rates.
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:55am
  - sungsamning
    
    Its time to lengthen sentences at the bottom end, and remove the lighter penalties at the top end. Including removing home detention as an option for GBH type offences. Tie the dudges hands. And build another prison or two.
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:50am
    - GJM
      
      Indeed. If we had a government with a spine rather than a shiver, they should announce that since the judiciary are unable to sentence correctly, the parliament will do it. Have minimum sentences in law, and all sentences to be consecutive
      
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      April 13, 2025 4:27pm
Scooter

The thing I question about the Treaty Principles Bill is how these “principles”even if accepted would stop the priority of Maori over the rest of NZers or the creep of Tikanga into every corner of society. Will the Pharmacy Council, Reale Estate Institute, Law, Universities etc remove the requirement of Tikanga or Cultural Competency standards if this bill passed?
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April 13, 2025 8:46am
- PurplePen
  
  I don’t know why ACT just didn’t remove the ToW principles altogether from legislation. That way there’s no opportunity for misinterpretation or no argument. I gather they were introduced initially as a way of settling how to interpret the ToW in relation to legislation. But that hasn’t worked.
  
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  April 13, 2025 10:22am
  - pdm
    
    NZFirst and National got in first on removing Treaty references from existing laws where it is inappropriate.
    
    I am like the cricketer of a few years ago – Roger Twose – waiting, waiting waiting!!!!
    
    No TOW references in the new RMA legislation proposed as I understand it but, I for one expect Luxon and Bishop to buckle on that one so it will be up to ACT to stop it.
    
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    April 13, 2025 2:07pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Scooter it is a starting point – an ideological line in the sand – an ethos to fall back on in relation to other contexts ie in NZ we believe in an equal opportunity society and so this racist approach being taken is against our collective values. Not dissimilar to how the “maori are special and should have more say in things” movement has been working. Putting our democratic non-racist principles into law provides a collective moral high ground.
  
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  April 13, 2025 10:34am
  - sungsamning
    
    Yes, that was the basic idea. Now the line is there, its time for the next step.
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:51am
- wsk12345
  
  Even the first month of a vet nursing course is all about the fkg ToW. To work with cows and dogs.
  
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  April 13, 2025 1:27pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    But Maori had vast herds of cows & very well trained dogs before 1840. //
    
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    April 13, 2025 1:48pm
surfing

The orange buffoon keeps backing down.

He was boasting how everyone was kissing his ass the other day. This dimwit is a complete dick, the loud mouthed clown who noone likes at a party.
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April 13, 2025 8:50am
- Simon
  
  Yep terrible. The bond markets don’t lie. MAGA is now GAE
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:24am
- imalwaysright
  
  Surfing,
  Very enlightening, I’m sure we all look forward to your next contribution.
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:52am
  - sungsamning
    
    I for one am holding my breath. What happens after one turns blue? Its a while since I was two.
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:52am
- MCōs
  
  Is anyone actually collecting these new tariffs?
  Or is the stuff just piling up at the borders until the systems are put in place?
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:59am
- mogg
  
  The orange buffoon and dimwit who is a loudmouth clown has achieved as much if not more in 15 days than the Canadians did in 15 years of negotiations to get their trade deal with EU. Not to mention the 75 other countries who are clamouring to offer concessions in order to get their own deal with Trump. He has already got what he wanted, “it’s a beautiful thing”
  
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  April 13, 2025 10:53am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    Has there been any independent verification of Trump’s claim that 75 countries are “clamouring to do deals”? They’re clamouring very quietly if so, and aren’t they wasting their time anyway given his firm, clear statement that his tariffs are here to stay?
    
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    April 13, 2025 11:52am
    - AitchW
      
      Even if they are clamouring to do deals, for Trump to pronounce that they’re “lining up to kiss his ass” is at best crass and at worst craven narcissism.
      I suspect that the more cultish Trump supporters will wallow in the knowledge that the end justifies the means. The more moderate will be cringing with embarrassment.
      
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      April 13, 2025 2:08pm
- Stu2
  
  The conservative Wall Street Journal has reacted to the economic chaos with the following (plus more) :
  
  “In a column published late Friday, a member of the Wall Street Journal editorial board claimed it would be “desirable” to subject Donald Trump to a third impeachment to make up for the damage he has done to the U.S. economy with his “ill-founded” trade war.”
  
  “No consensus or even significant coalition exists for trying to force into existence a new American ‘golden age’ with tariffs, which anyway is like asking a chicken to give birth to a lioness. He invented this mission out of his own confused intuition, he accused.”
  
  “Noting that conservative historian Niall Ferguson labeled Trump’s trade policy going “full retard,” he contributed, “I go with ‘neurotic’ for the word’s wider applicability to any leader who, lacking a clear bead on his times, fabricates a gratuitously ambitious mission to meet his misguided sense of importance.”
  
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  April 13, 2025 11:49am
- artemisia
  
  An alternative description couple of days ago of President Trump from the always interesting eugyppius:
  
  At base, Trump is a Caesarist figure – the leader of a populist backlash against an increasingly discredited American liberal elite. He is a showman and a brilliant if relentlessly underestimated political strategist with remarkable antifragile qualities.
  
  He is also fearless, aggressive, erratic and slightly crazy. If he weren’t all of these things at once – the good qualities together with the indifferent and the bad – he wouldn’t be where he is now.
  
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  April 13, 2025 12:14pm
imalwaysright

NZ gets a relatively good US tariff rate of 10% and Luxon’s reaction is to try to form a group of leaders of countries, who all charge their own tariffs, to try to bypass the US market.
All he had to do, as Winston said, was wait.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/winston-peters-disparages-christopher-luxons-tariff-talks-with-world-leaders-call-me-next-time/36JC23KMJJAM3PMOR72MVRNQUY/
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April 13, 2025 9:01am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Read what Peter’s actually said, he never said give us a ring at all, media trying to drive a wedge as always, but you fall for it.
  
  Luxon is talking about doing tariff free trade with these country’s, you are suggesting he wants to trade Roth tariffs, that’s not what he is doing ffs
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:49am
  - Cassandra
    
    From DG: what are Roth tariffs, old boy.
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:54am
    - David Garrett
      
      Cass: Indeed; what are they??
      
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      April 13, 2025 11:18am
      - Don Beckett
        
        I think he meant to say ‘Wrath’ .
        
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        April 13, 2025 12:09pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      With tariffs
      
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      April 13, 2025 1:06pm
- Colville
  
  Luxon (rightly in my view) sees it as a chance to rub shoulders with some of the Euro countries and do deals. Good on him.
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:57am
  - Inandout
    
    Col, Luxon is 100% CEO and stumbles to understand the cut and thrust world of dealers. Hopefully he won’t destroy the goodwill Winston has established with our trading partners. The Trump tactics have yet to play out.
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:39am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Yes, but unlike what the previous poster said, he will be working on tariff free
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:43am
- PurplePen
  
  Yes. I’m a bit surprised with Luxon’s reaction here. It’s a if he’s unable to stand back and see a bigger picture. Shows a lack of maturity which is a worry.
  
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  April 13, 2025 10:24am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Rubbish, he can see n opening for NZ, msn can you not see there is opportunities while US sneezes
    
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    April 13, 2025 10:44am
G the giant from Dunedin

I see the greenie police hater has been caught out fund raising for the abolishment of police, abolishment of prisons, and other gay rights bullshit. Yet every time you say to a greenie she wants to abolish da police greenies say she was mids quoted
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April 13, 2025 9:04am
- David Garrett
  
  G: Abolition old boy…No such word as “abolishment”.
  
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  April 13, 2025 9:40am
  - Ghost
    
    https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/abolishment
    
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    April 13, 2025 9:42am
    - David Garrett
      
      Ghost: Hmmm…but that dictionary is Collins apparently…I’d be surprised if “abolishment” is to be found in the Shorter Oxford. (In fact it is not to be found in my Concise Oxford published in 1996)
      
      I note that “predate” now appears fairly regularly…fingernails on a blackboard for me. The word is PREY as in: “the old man preyed on the young boys in the town”.
      
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      April 13, 2025 10:05am
      - Ghost
        
        https://www.oed.com/dictionary/abolishment_n?tl=true
        
        Where does the noun abolishment come from?
        
        EARLIEST KNOWN USE
        
        mid 1500s
        The earliest known use of the noun abolishment is in the mid 1500s.
        
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        April 13, 2025 10:10am
      - Cassandra
        
        Abolishment is archaic; the correct word is abolition.
        
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        April 13, 2025 10:21am
      - David Garrett
        
        Ghost: That is very interesting…I see the Oxford you are linking to was published in 2009, almost 30 years after my trust paper version. So I guess this is an example of “language evolution” which old Mike/Mikey/ Milky is so fond of quoting.
        
        However I did notice this with regard to frequency of usage:
        
        About 0.2 occurrences per million words in modern written English
        
        Can you use your source to see how often “abolition” is used instead? At least ten times that of the alternative I suspect.
        
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        April 13, 2025 10:21am
      - AitchW
        
        English is a living breathing language, it changes, it grows, and it evolves. I remember my French teacher and headmaster telling us that we should never split an infinitive. 30 years later the OED admitted that it was perfectly acceptable to split an infinitive.
        I still won’t do it, but it is in common use now.
        Some changes and additions may make us uncomfortable (I really dislike the way that adjectives and nouns are turned into verbs) however that is our mother tongue.
        Contrast the life force of English with other languages which are frozen in time, and you would have to agree that ours is far richer and probably more vital as a result of its flexibility.
        
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        April 13, 2025 10:35am
      - Jack5
        
        Sunday grammar – continued from AitchW’s point…
        
        Splitting the infinite in English is fine, and has been fine for centuries argues the language commentator linked to below.
        
        He says the rule about splitting the infinitive stems from grammarian Henry Alford in the 1860s trying to make English more like Latin, which has single-word infinitives. It’s impossible to split the infinitive in Latin, which, in Victorian times, had great prestige among the learned classes.
        
        This commentator also defends double negatives in English, saying they can be highly effective; and sentence-end prepositions. He also has views on “fewer” v. “less” and the use of “hopefully”.
        
        https://youtu.be/BccyQaNKXz8?si=UAD4XqSGkqLZWaW4
        
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        April 13, 2025 4:43pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Not sure what school you went to. Yes my grammar is not the best, but the word you use is used in a different tense.
    
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    April 13, 2025 9:51am
    - AitchW
      
      You’d have to agree that abolition trips off the tongue far more easily than abolishment.
      
      5 0
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      April 13, 2025 10:36am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        I wasn’t speaking, I was writing, to the other words is abolition is in a more general sense
        
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        April 13, 2025 1:09pm
      - AitchW
        
        G, in an informal setting like this I usually write in the same manner that I would speak. Abolishment looks and sounds clumsy in my opinion. Abolition is far more elegant. So there!
        
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        April 13, 2025 3:12pm
- sungsamning
  
  Aren’t the ‘Greens’ and environ mentalist party? //
  
  6 2
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  April 13, 2025 10:54am
  - AitchW
    
    You’re almost right, they’re just mental….
    
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    April 13, 2025 3:13pm
Master Mariner

Mean while everyone else was talking about “critical” minerals in Trumps new plan, The real reason was tucked away in various clauses.
Control of Oil and Gas including Pipelines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwesU29L4-s
“Ukraine’s Gas War Backfires — US Demands Gazprom Pipeline Control, Europe in Crisis! | TN World.”

As previously posted, The EU announced new investment in Oil/Gas Fields ( Of which Ukraine has a lot offshore) and hence reducing there reliance on Russian Gas. This was the catalyst for Russian invasion.
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April 13, 2025 9:16am
Scooter

Air NZ or Air Woke? Air NZ put a picture of their new uniforms being modelled by 9 people. I don’t know if they are actual staff or models but one glaring standout is only 1 is white, presumably a pilot on the far left, in a pinstripe suit no less. Now I always thought a lot of male cabin crew were of the “rainbow” persuasion so how come Air Woke/NZ have not included more white gay guys?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/air-new-zealand-unveils-new-uniform-by-kiwi-designer-emilia-wickstead/VDFGDU2DRNECDJQ3MSY3PP4AMY/
10 3
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April 13, 2025 9:25am
- AitchW
  
  Perhaps the pilot is gay. Does it matter?
  
  6 1
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  April 13, 2025 10:37am
- sungsamning
  
  White, gay, male. That’s only three diversity points. Not enough.
  
  10 3
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  April 13, 2025 10:55am
- Paulus
  
  Still bloody awful costumes.
  Look at many of the other International ones and see what can be achieved without Maori content.
  
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  April 13, 2025 2:29pm
herb1

Is there any need to fight wars now?
Russia first invaded Ukraine 11 years ago and as of today has estimated casualties of around 930000 as well as trillions in munitions and equipment.
Team USA lead negotiator Steve Witkoff , yesterday advised that Ukraine should give up more territory than Russia have been able to occupied in those brutal 11 years.
Would have saved an enormous amount of lives , money and anxiety, if only Witkoff and Trump could have been around earlier to give the world their bigly, best in world negotiating skills and art of the deal ability.
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April 13, 2025 9:30am
- Mike
  
  I thought Trump was going to stop the war on the first day of his presidency.
  
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  April 13, 2025 11:49am
Dudley Quaffquaff

So now he’s lifted the tariffs which were going to cause inconvenience to tech billionaires.

Does anybody seriously, genuinely think he wasn’t paid to do that?
7 12
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April 13, 2025 9:37am
- emmess
  
  Oh no, how will millions of American workers survive without those jobs screwing in screws on iPhones?
  
  4 4
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  April 13, 2025 11:09am
- Stu2
  
  No way IPhone building was heading back the the US in anything other than token amounts. A huge investment would have needed to make all the sub-assemblies, let alone the build. And Apple etc would not have been willing to spend $$$ as the huge tariff won’t stick.
  
  At least the US consumer won’t be battered by a 145% tariff that wasn’t going to deliver. Pain without gain. They are still subject to 20%.
  
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  April 13, 2025 1:21pm
imalwaysright

Watched Judith Collins on Q&A trying to convince Jack that the sinking of a navy boat and nobody dying is a good thing, and that none of the Defense bosses are responsible for the appointment of an unqualified captain.
She reminded me of Ardern. [Mod – use the correct name]
17 4
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April 13, 2025 10:03am
- AitchW
  
  Ardern. Perhaps you’re not always right after all, old chap.
  
  6 2
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  April 13, 2025 10:39am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Thanks AW, even mistyping her name makes me queasy.
    Tame asked some good questions but, according to Collins, the navy don’t really have any hard and fast rules about their captains’ being qualified to actually captain their boats.
    She likened it to a learner driver not being allowed to drive a car!!
    
    Maybe the boat should have had L plates on it…rainbow coloured of course.
    
    I wonder what the insurance company will say about providing compensation for a boat captained by an unqualified skipper?
    
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    April 13, 2025 11:53am
    - pdm
      
      ima – given the Government does not insure the buildings etc that it owns it is very unlikely a Navy Boat would be insured.
      
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      April 13, 2025 2:18pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        I thought the same but apparently they have third party insurance. Hard to believe, but I’ve heard it mentioned by Collins.
        
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        April 13, 2025 5:49pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Oh ffs, she has stated from day one, this accident is a salvage operation, it could have well been a body recovery operation
  
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  April 13, 2025 10:49am
  - Dougal10
    
    What most of us are saying it is not really an accident anymore, and collins should front up and admit it.
    
    10 3
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    April 13, 2025 12:07pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I think she realises that
      
      2 1
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      April 13, 2025 1:10pm
  - Quail
    
    Whatever it was still gross incompetence, not only the Crew but those who selected / appointed the executive Captain etc must have to explain their contribution to the sinking!
    There must be consequences for the Navy’s executive!
    
    12 1
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    April 13, 2025 12:36pm
    - Paulus
      
      Boat still there on the reef – will cost us many millions for salvage recovery.
      Dock the budget from the Navy !
      
      4 1
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      April 13, 2025 2:32pm
- sungsamning
  
  Well, nobody in this saga reminded me of Pitt, Jackie Fisher, or Nelson. They left the autopilot on. Have none of them played World of Warships? //
  
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  April 13, 2025 10:58am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  If a commercial shipping company sent a vessel to sea with untrained Master, watch keepers and short handed as the report stated they would be hauled over the coals by the Regulatory Authorities and their Insurers.
  
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  April 13, 2025 1:08pm
  - Paulus
    
    Called Unseaworthy so not insured either !
    
    5 0
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    April 13, 2025 2:33pm
    - AitchW
      
      I don’t believe that the ships are insured anyway. The Navy has what amounts to public liability so the costs of cleaning up the mess are insured, but not the ship itself. That’s my understanding, I’m happy to be corrected.
      
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      April 13, 2025 3:36pm
Damocles11

The mad obsession of the MSM with ‘Polkinghorne’ continues today, to what end nobody knows. There was a trial and the man was found not guilt. Today there are multiple stories articles on RNZ, the Herald, and Stuff, including the one below.
The reason the case never gripped me is because the details are so murky and the central characters so vague and unlikeable, and sad. I don’t think many people were ‘gripped’ as the media hysteria has made out.
Here’s one of the articles from today: a Private Investigator putting the metaphorical boot into a dead woman. Again, just sad and ultimately head-scratching stuff.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360651927/polkinghornes-wife-phoned-pi-determined-take-action-weeks-death

‘Hartley Moore told the documentary, Polk: The Trial of Philip Polkinghorne, that Hanna came across as “cold, calculated and very authoritative” as she sought help to “gather evidence”.’
5 2
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April 13, 2025 10:09am
- David Garrett
  
  Damocles: “To what end nobody knows”
  
  The end is Polkinghorne was a guilty as sin. I spoke to a New Zealand judge recently who said: “He [Polkinghorne] was incredibly lucky. Ron [Mansfield, Polkinghorne’s lawyer] earned every dollar of the million Polkinghorne paid him.”
  
  I have no idea if the reference to a fee of a million dollars is accurate, but the judge’s meaning was quite clear.
  
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  April 13, 2025 11:28am
  - rangitoto
    
    I was on a jury trial where two people were charged with crimes relating to a murder. One was up on the murder charge and the other being an accessory after the fact. The lawyer representing the woman on the accessory after the fact charge, ran rings around both the prosecuting crown lawyers and the laywer defending the murder charge. A good lawyer can for sure make a difference Probably not a great aspect of our legal system.
    
    7 0
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    April 13, 2025 12:31pm
    - Paulus
      
      I was on a Jury where the prosecution did not do a very good open case job, but with the knowledge that two people on the jury were Maori and the defendent was Maori, in my opinion totally guilty of assault.
      In the jury room the first question was asked by the Forelady asked for Guilty or Not and the two Maori immediatly said Not Guily, and we wasted an hour as they would not join in any discussion after have had their one say.
      So verdict Not Guilty of course.
      
      8 3
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      April 13, 2025 2:42pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Yes, you’ve told us this story before, Paulus. I let it go last time, but this time I ask, why didn’t you and the other ‘guilty’ jurors dig your toes in and force the forelady to inform the judge that the jury was hung?
        
        10 2
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        April 13, 2025 3:16pm
    - AitchW
      
      It’s up to the Crown to prove guilt.
      Sadly the prosecutors aren’t paid anything like what a defence lawyer can earn.
      They’re not as well paid on legal aid, but presented with a case that they believe is easily winnable a hungry defence lawyer might take it on for the reputational gains.
      
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      April 13, 2025 3:17pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  to what end nobody knows.
  
  Media hype for TV3 docu starting tonight.
  
  8 1
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  April 13, 2025 12:55pm
- MCōs
  
  Crime stories fascinate the public, particularly ones where there is an unconvincing/unresolved conclusion as far as many people are concerned
  Crewe, Bain, Kahui, Ruthless – the list goes on and on.
  
  2 0
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  April 13, 2025 1:25pm
- Paulus
  
  A Not Guily, but a man, so must have been guilty according to the media.
  
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  April 13, 2025 2:34pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H5rHqxgqmg
Trump set to Pull Out 20K Troops From Poland.
As the war in Ukraine continues, Poland finds itself at a crossroads. Once a central pillar of NATO’s eastern defense—thanks to a surge in US troops under President Biden—Poland now faces uncertainty amid reports that former President Trump may drastically reduce America’s military presence in Central and Eastern Europe.
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April 13, 2025 10:42am
- rangitoto
  
  Poland has been ramping up defence spending for a while.
  
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  April 13, 2025 11:48am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YaPgVomKhw
China is Done – Trade War is Way Worse Than I Thought.
China should focus much more on domestic consumption i.e. at least 50% of GDP on private consumption. Stop selling your overcapacity products overseas. It’s good for the world, and good for China too. [Karma for Covid.]
10 5
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April 13, 2025 10:42am
rangitoto

So Trump caved on the China tariffs for electronic stuff. That will sure bring high value manufacturing jobs back to the US.
7 4
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April 13, 2025 11:39am
- Mike
  
  Nope, it’s just a very smart, bigly clever, stable genius, 4D chess, art of the deal, negotiating strategy.
  
  9 8
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  April 13, 2025 11:54am
  - Cassandra
    
    Sarcasm not always the lowest form of wit, mike.
    
    7 5
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    April 13, 2025 1:17pm
Ghost

A lot of business are going to go under if this stupidity doesn’t stop

Rick Woldenberg thought he had come up with a sure-fire plan to protect his Chicago-area educational toy company from US President Donald Trump’s massive new taxes on Chinese imports.

“When he announced a 20% tariff, I made a plan to survive 40%, and I thought I was being very clever,” said Woldenberg, CEO of Learning Resources, a third-generation family business that has been manufacturing in China for four decades. “I had worked out that for a very modest price increase, we could withstand 40% tariffs, which was an unthinkable increase in costs.”

Article
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April 13, 2025 12:03pm
- mogg
  
  Facts not feelings; your one example means nothing.
  The S&P, Dow and NASDAQ are averaging down 16% since Trump tariffs, that’s correction territory, not Bear or even recession, in what was an overpriced market. In Covid the fall was 33% in a few days. US equities are now seen as being fairly priced.
  
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  April 13, 2025 1:29pm
  - Ghost
    
    https://www.npr.org/2025/04/07/nx-s1-5352833/trump-tariffs-china-manufacturing-businesses
    https://www.uschamber.com/international/trade-agreements/american-workers-businesses-consumers-trade-tariffs
    
    One example. So easy for people in New Zealand to ignore the damage these tariffs are doing in America
    
    4 5
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    April 13, 2025 1:47pm
    - mogg
      
      The lesson being don’t build your business around imported cheap Chinese goods.
      Trump has put an end to globalisation, the Chinese have put an end to the free market by abusing the system for too long, their State owned banks have been subsidising export industries to dump cheap goods in Western markets. Their currency manipulation and use of slave labour is not fair competition. Trump has a new China policy, and that means an end to cheap Chinese goods.
      
      8 4
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      April 13, 2025 2:50pm
      - Jethrod
        
        I imagine the Mowbrays and Zuru are quivering in there shoes at the moment with this tariff fiasco on-going as it is.
        
        2 0
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        April 13, 2025 4:49pm
      - Jack5
        
        … cheap Chinese goods …
        
        But also smart phones, laptop computers, keyboards, routers and modems.
        
        1 0
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        April 13, 2025 5:46pm
Swifty

When the demands come that we refer to people as doggy or puppy self, that it is a matter of human rights and not doing so is an act of violence towards them or indeed genocide, what will be our response?

Will we acquiesce as many of us have done with the trans folk, or will we politely decline, wish them well and carry on with our lives?

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1CZCCrMdG1/?mibextid=wwXIfr
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April 13, 2025 1:11pm
- keepcalmcarryon
  
  Re open the looney bins.
  They can dress up and hop around the lawn in character without having their delusions enabled by the general population.
  Microchipping and registration are council requirements.
  
  6 2
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  April 13, 2025 2:42pm
  - Swifty
    
    Yep.
    
    https://www.facebook.com/share/v/16EmHjK1Rg/?mibextid=wwXIfr
    
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    April 13, 2025 5:28pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Not to mention de-sexing
    
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    April 13, 2025 7:33pm
Swifty

High culture in New Zealand.

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/15KAwibiLi/?mibextid=wwXIfr

And their apologists will claim it’s the direct result of colonisation, rather than a shitty culture fuelled and fed by welfarism and political grifters.
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April 13, 2025 2:08pm
Stu2

I saw a fascinating Utube video a couple of days ago on the US executive order on container shipping.

a) there was going to be a major cost imposed on Chinese build container ships per port visit in the US. About half of container ship building is Chinese so they make up a lot of the global fleet. No way to avoid those ships having to visit the US.

The expert being interviewed pointed out it will result in fewer port visits (LA, not Oakland and LA) which will clog major ports. And require longer truck/train transport of container within the US

Own goal?

Many of the comments attached were from US citizens thinking those ships are only carrying Chinese goods. Nope, in every container ship fleet and going everywhere, carrying everything.

b) eventually there would be a fee if container ships from fleets with less than 15% US built ships visited the US. Given they aren’t currently building any that is huge.

I doubt they will be cost competitive with Chinese or Korean yards, so building the US yards and US ships will come at a price. And it will be subject to the usual problem – if the measure turns out to be way too expensive the requirement might evaporate

The US cost to import or export will go up, and reduce US competitiveness.

If might be a cost worth bearing for strategic reasons, but it won’t be free
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April 13, 2025 2:20pm
Jack5

Labour Lite …

One of National’s more prominent former Ministers, Chris Finlayson, has an article in the British Left-wing newspaper, the Guardian.

In it, Finlayson says ACT’s Treaty Principles Bill has caused more division in NZ than any other proposal in recent memory.

Finlayson writes: “While the bill is dead, the damage it caused will take some time to repair. The legislation has been the major contributor to deteriorating relations between Māori and the crown in New Zealand since 2023 and its effects will be felt for many years to come.”

Finlayson is a former Attorney-General and a former Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Settlements.

Finlayson had acted for Ngai Tahu in its sweetheart Treaty settlement, and has been acting this year for the tribe its claims over water management.

His article in the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/11/new-zealands-divisive-treaty-principles-bill-has-been-defeated-but-the-fight-against-populism-isnt-overs
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April 13, 2025 2:49pm
- Don Beckett
  
  There was division in NZ long before Seymour introduced the TPB bill, caused partly by Jacinda, but has been growing for some decades.
  
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  April 13, 2025 4:15pm
  - mandk
    
    I would say ’caused largely by Jacinda’.
    
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    April 13, 2025 4:41pm
  - Swifty
    
    Absolutely right Don.
    
    The division was there already. The TPB just gave it voice.
    
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    April 13, 2025 5:17pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    What division? Kiwis get on together just fine.
    Don’t confuse the media manufactured world with the real world.
    
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    April 13, 2025 5:57pm
- Jack5
  
  Ahoy down-tickers! I’m just the messenger.
  
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  April 13, 2025 5:00pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  The Grundian – for Finlayson.
  
  Of course.
  
  The real question is how many other National MP’s and former MP’s sat reading that and thinking, “Why didn’t The Guardian ask me for a guest editorial”?
  
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  April 13, 2025 5:30pm
  - Swifty
    
    Heh
    
    1 0
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    April 13, 2025 6:17pm
- Inandout
  
  Chris has made some good coin out of the Treaty.
  
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  April 13, 2025 5:39pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  From a RNZ podcast in 2022, Chris Finlayson speaks – just in case anybody is surprised that he’s writing in the Guardian or by what he wrote:
  
  “I simply say to people, one, there’s a new regime, get with it folks; two, Rome wasn’t built in a day.”
  
  While he says there’s room for robust debate about the co-governance model between the Crown and iwi and hapū, Finlayson’s advice for dealing with the “sour right” behind the racist, resentful rhetoric: “We’ve just got to leave those losers behind and move on. They don’t like tangata whenua. They dream of a world that never was and never could be,” he says.
  
  As he describes them, those past settlements that he was heavily involved with were not really about righting wrongs via the Waitangi Treaty tribunal process. No, they were about building small but permanent foundations for an entirely new way of governing this nation; a way that has now sprung into life via the supposed “opposing” party, Labour, backed by The Greens and naturally the Maori Party, with the He Puapua report, Three Waters and so forth.
  
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  April 13, 2025 6:14pm
  - Swifty
    
    “Regime….’
    
    What an interesting choice of words.
    
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    April 13, 2025 6:19pm
Swifty

A blast from the past – and possibly of interest to New Zealanders at the time and new arrivals since – full TVNZ coverage of the 1984 election, 3 parts:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5GkuvSsiFp0

The first election I voted in as an 18 year old Norwegian racing sardine. For the record I voted Labour 84 and 87.
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April 13, 2025 5:16pm
JJ56

See Willy Jackson wants gst off meat, a move along from fruit and vegs at the last election.

Clearly Labour are seeking to distance themselves from the Greens, and are hanging out for their pudding.
8 2
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April 13, 2025 5:53pm
- JJ56
  
  In a related matter that didn’t last long. The NZ Herald had a prominent story about the Greens claiming copyright breach over the Sensible Sentencing Trust’s wind up, but its now gone in no time at all …
  
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  April 13, 2025 6:18pm
- AitchW
  
  The beauty of our GST is that there are no exemptions and only one rate. It’s the envy of many other countries with GST comprising multiple rates and exemptions.
  Leftist politicians every election call for exemptions on food, they have no idea how complicated life will be for businesses if they get their way.
  
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  April 13, 2025 6:47pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    AW
    
    I have spoken to people running businesses in the UK and Aus and they say the different rates on even the same item is mind boggling.
    
    There was a long running case in the UK between IRD and a biscuit manufacturer on what exactly the product was.
    
    In the UK a food item can be VAT 0 rated but if it is cooked then VAT is charged on the cooking bit!!!!
    
    1 0
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    April 13, 2025 8:00pm
    - AitchW
      
      In Aus a frozen meat pie attracts no GST. Put the same pie in a warmer, sell it hot and it attracts GST.
      Just one batshit crazy example.
      
      1 0
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      April 13, 2025 9:28pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        I wonder what % of national turnover meat pies are in Australia. Every time you create a boundary in the tax system, there will be anomalies.
        
        The varying product-related VAT rates in most countries are no more than a (very) minor niggle which retailers came to terms with years ago.
        
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        April 14, 2025 8:20am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Yep. Buy high priced (unfunded) ($100k+) drugs to treat your terminal condition. Feel good about how you pay an extra 15% for life saving drugs to maintain the purity of the GST system.
    
    The countries with varying rates seem to cope OK
    
    1 1
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    April 13, 2025 8:05pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Willie J stands with Benjamin Doyle – but he’s trying to act like a real little populist at the moment.
  
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  April 13, 2025 7:16pm
Philview

I see the person who found the Doyle photos has been doxed.
3 2
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April 13, 2025 6:21pm

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Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

Karl du Fresne: Featherston Booktown - the book festival where books are optional
Breaking Views
Climate Change: Fucking the ETS again
No Right Turn
REPOST: "What's a woman?"
Not PC
Brexit Redux
Point of Order
Poking the dragon
The Standard
Fiscal failure
Croaking Cassandra
What David Seymour really means when he says new regulations for early childhood education
The Daily Blog
Smith Reviews Stiglitz
Utopia
Sede Vacante Ne Pontificate
No Minister
Woman of the day
Hompaddock
Winston On Woke, ‘Woman’ & DEI
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
United Rugby Championship Predictions for Week 16
Stats Chat
Protecting the Public Interest
NZCPR
THE WORKING FROM HOME RACKET BY PUBLIC SERVANTS
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
Uncertainty, Hierarchy and the Dilemma of Democracy.
Kiwipolitico
Maybe allow competition?
Offsetting Behaviour
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz