General Debate 05 April 2025

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Chuck Bird

An excellent article from Muriel Newman’s blog about why we should pull out of Paris

Ian Bradford: Can we really believe anything the climate alarmists tell us?

https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2025/04/ian-bradford-can-we-really-believe.html#more
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April 5, 2025 8:04am
- surfing
  
  What about climate moderates? Should we listen to them? The one’s who say the earth is warming and this will cause rising sea levels over the coming centuries.
  
  Or, do you think the moderates are also wrong?
  
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  April 5, 2025 8:12am
  - Tomtoddy
    
    @surfing. It is evident and provable that there has been some increase in temperatures especially in the Northern Hemisphere. This will cause sea levels to increase very gradually.
    
    These changes are nothing new. They have been occurring since time began. There have been periods historically where these changes have occurred at similar rates.
    
    The sensible reaction is to take steps to deal with any problems that might have an adverse impact as they happen. Issues like rising sea levels on Pacific Islands are mostly offset by accretion of sands from eroding reefs building up land by wind and tidal action but some places will need to take action in coming decades as high tides and storm surges become troublesome.
    
    So much data is distorted, straight out lies are being told, too many jobs are now involved in propping up a sensational story line that it is hard to find the truth. For most of us no action is needed and will not be needed in our lifetime nor that of our grandchildren.
    
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    April 5, 2025 9:41am
    - surfing
      
      That’s a fair assessment.
      
      I don’t think the moderates are making up lies though. The extemists on both sides need to be ignored.
      
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      April 5, 2025 9:55am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Tomtoddy is right.
        
        If you watch a couple of good videos, and do the background research you will find that the earth has been heating and cooling since time began to hotter and colder temperatures and with higher and lower sea levels.
        
        The Great Global Warming Swindle
        Climate the Movie
        
        And for Good measure watch: Holes In Heaven – HAARP And Weather Modification.
        
        The last one will tell you it is not cows farting that is altering weather (if at all) but govts playing God by altering the atmosphere.
        
        The moderates may be saying that the earth is warming, which is part of natural cycles. So it cools in winter and heats in summer and gets light during the day and and dark at night.
        
        It is a big so what? There is always someone trying to make money by predicting the future. If they weren’t, the TAB, Lotto, and Pokie machines would go bankrupt.
        
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        April 5, 2025 10:50am
      - AitchW
        
        JR weather manipulation is right up there with chemtrails.
        I used to enjoy trolling chemtrail believers, one of my favourites was to ask who was responsible for the chemtrails and how they benefitted. I always got vague waffly answers about the Illuminati and Freemasons.
        I’m yet to see any proof of chemtrails or weather manipulation.
        
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        April 5, 2025 11:37am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @AitchW
        
        The subject of my comment was weather modification, not chemtrails. In my opinion linking the two is unprofessional.
        
        If you had studied the works of Nikola Tesla in the late 1890s, you would know it is possible to modify weather.
        
        If you watched the video I mentioned, you would find not only a discussion of the science, but the then US Govt operators of HAARP boasting of disturbing the atmosphere and ionosphere.
        
        Disturbances such as creating artificial auroras, and stretch the height of the atmosphere in the HAARP location, up to DOUBLE its normal height.
        
        And if you studied the subject well, the Russians also had one during the cold war, aimed across the Atlantic, that created radio interference in selected AM / SSB bands to the point that major ham/short wave manufacturers had “wood pecker” notch filters installed on their commercial products to deal with the interference.
        
        Everything I have stated is a matter of public record.
        
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        April 5, 2025 1:18pm
  - coge
    
    There isn’t anything we can do prevent the Earth from being in an interglacial phase. Which has been overwhelmingly beneficial for us human inhabitants. Not that the media, activists, politicians and academia want you to believe that.
    
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    April 5, 2025 10:13am
  - I remember when
    
    “The one’s who say the earth is warming and this will cause rising sea levels over the coming centuries.”
    Yes, both may be correct, but action should be taken to lessen the effects as they happen.
    Not try to scare everyone into financial ruin with actions that fix problems that may never exist.
    
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    April 5, 2025 10:42am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Al Gore and Obama have placed bets that it will not rise by any measurable amount any time soon, by purchasing beachfront properties not long after Al Gore’s prediction of doom.
      
      If someone tells you that the only beer to drink is Fosters, yet they exclusively drink Stella Artois, do they really think that Fosters is the best?
      
      If someone tells you, and enforces you to take a vaccine because it’s safe and effective, yet gives themselves an exemption, as did the Health Management, and Education Management, and had fake shots on live nationwide TV, do they really think it is safe and effective?
      
      If someone tells you sea level is rising fast, and tells you not to buy beach front properties, yet themselves buy beach front properties, do they really believe that sea level is rising fast? Especially when no tidal charts show any rate of increase?
      
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      April 5, 2025 10:57am
  - kowtow
    
    surfing
    
    Here’s a thought .
    
    Look at where the costliest , vital etc infrastructure still being built , around the world .
    
    Those Pearl City type reclamation projects in the Gulf , the billions about to be pumped into Auckland airport , the mind bogglingly huge port and airport infrastructure China keeps pumping out etc
    Etc
    
    All at sea level .
    
    Govts , planners , big industry etc clearly does not “believe” the bull they spout about “climate change” and all the catastrophe coming down the road .
    
    Even the huge , mind numbingly expensive and difficult to install wind stations they build out at sea . Why ? Why when they claim those projects are in danger of inundation , increased hurricanes etc
    Follow the money.
    
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    April 5, 2025 12:30pm
  - judith8409121
    
    i will believe them if they are able to predict accurately. That is the core fundamental of science – actually being able to predict. What we have is not prediction but premonition. They love to tell stories that never come true – time and time again. So the moderates are wrong if their so called science does not predict. Sea-level rise is a great indicator. If their premonitions are to be believed then the sea-level rise is supposed to have increased in rate – and yet it hasn’t – so if the things that are recorded don’t show a change then they are unable to say that the number they called increased temperature is having any impact to anything else. Another is the number of storms – hasn’t happened – false prediction – so that’s bs too. What has happened is that plants have grown better from co2. No rise of temperature in reality but a true rise in co2 causing plant growth improvement. Can’t see what all the screaming is about??
    
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    April 5, 2025 4:31pm
- CJames
  
  It is very likely that there will be no or a much reduced IPCC 7th Assessment. This is Trump has pulled funding and banned US funded scientists from working on it. Without that document, and the political Summary for Policymakers (which isn’t a summary at all), the UN and activists won’t have a cudgel to beat the West with.
  It looks like none of the big emitters are going to put anything into the Paris Accord. Without IPCC, why bother? The effects of that Accord collapse are unpredictable. But it is likely carbon credits will be a major victim. Then, what will happen to all those farms being planted in pines?
  
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  April 5, 2025 8:18am
  - Greenheart
    
    Sell the logs to China.
    
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    April 5, 2025 8:26am
    - Sacha
      
      China buys logs that have been cultivated for production purposes, and doesn’t buy the ‘carbon credit’ forests. They will be left to die and rot away over the years, and the land will be useless.
      In 5000 years someone might discover evidence of ancient forests, and wonder what happened to the civilisation that planted them.
      
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      April 5, 2025 10:13am
  - Dougal10
    
    The companies planting pine farms for carbon are relying on the government to bail them out when the carbon market crashes, the government will then be even bigger owners of pest infested wilderness than they are now. Most of the trees in 30 years time will end up in the wood fired boilers that cindy and shaw subsidised as coal replacements.
    
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    April 5, 2025 8:26am
    - JackRabbit
      
      And pine trees are poor carbon sinks compared to the grassland they replaced.
      
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      April 5, 2025 10:58am
  - kowtow
    
    “the UN and activists won’t have a cudgel to beat the West with.”
    
    When the Oz govt , Miliband in UK , many EU heads of govt, Canada’s Carney a catastrophist ;all lining up to enthusiastically beat their own economies up over Net Zero ……..who needs the UN?
    
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    April 5, 2025 8:53am
  - Ginger Cat
    
    It will take approx 25 years to make the land fertile
    and productive once more.
    
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    April 5, 2025 10:51am
    - CJames
      
      In can be done a lot faster than that if the benefits are there. Around Taupo, forested areas went from pine trees to dairy cows in three years. Steep hill country like on the East Coast would take longer but could be back within ten years to dry stock if they were allowed to burn the slash like they used to.
      
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      April 5, 2025 2:41pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  I hope Kiwisavers dont panic like they did when Covid hit and switch their funds. Especially those in growth funds switching to cash or conservative. Its all about time in the market not timing the market. Experienced long term investors will have sold down their holdings when Trump won and now they will be looking for quality stocks. Market turmoil always provides opportunities. As Warren Buffet says when everyone else is selling buy and when everyone else is buying sell.
  
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  April 5, 2025 9:21am
  - JerJer
    
    That’s correct. The activity on the market at the movement is mostly driven by emotion rather than company fundamentals. Companies will adapt, values will come back, dramatic false
    Media coverage will be discounted. You are also correct many will lose big time, many will be purchasing and will make loads of money, then people will complain about the wealth gap…it will be a conspiracy of course. I’m down about 250k, but I won’t sell, I’ll hold and I expect the 250k will be made up by the end of the year plus quite a lot on top as the market comes back.
    
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    April 5, 2025 10:43am
  - I remember when
    
    The Sharemarket was in danger of a serious ‘overheat’ so it may provide the opportunity for investors to have a rethink.
    
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    April 5, 2025 10:49am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Looked at my shares end of yesterday, and my Contact Energy shares were 8 cents down earlier in the day, only to end the day up 12 cents, after being up 16 cents the previous day, give it a month and shares world wide will be moving up, the same thing happened when Trump came in and threatened huge tariffs and with in a couple of months they were at record highs, ghez, the US share market is still at 40000 points
    
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    April 5, 2025 12:15pm
- Handyman
  
  The next time you see a kettle boiling ask yourself:
  Is the steam gas driving up the temperature of the water or is the warming water releasing steam into the atmosphere?
  It really is that simple.
  
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  April 5, 2025 1:33pm
- Patrick
  
  Thanks for the link. A fantastic summary of relevant information. I wish I could contain all the facts to argue the case.
  
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  April 5, 2025 5:15pm
surfing

You do have to ask the question, is Trump purposefully trying to destroy America?

His tariff calculations were obscenely stupid. Trump is either the biggest idiot on the planet, or , a russian agent.

Now Trump wants interest rates lowered, despite economic orthodoxy that money supply should be restricted in inflationary conditions (bought about by Trump’s tariffs).

I can see a scenario here, that US inflation rates hit insanely high levels while US economic growth reverses. Stagflation on steriods.

The one hilarious side show will be deranged Trump supports cheering him in the streets while their life savings evaporate.
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April 5, 2025 8:08am
- kowtow
  
  brought
  
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  April 5, 2025 9:32am
- Inandout
  
  surf, we have more important issues at home like wasteful spending on government agencies and a parliament in disarray.
  
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  April 5, 2025 9:34am
  - surfing
    
    What happens in America is very important to New Zealand. What starts there, inevitable ends up on our shores.
    
    There is no reason we can’t focus on more than one issue at a time.
    
    The most important issues for me are the racial separation driving apart society, and our woeful education system.
    
    Racial discrimination and political advantage by race could lead to civil war in the longer term.
    
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    April 5, 2025 9:58am
- SmokerGuy
  
  Trump is making it all up on fly, it’s incredible that someone like that is elected at President of the US. We live in strange times.
  
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  April 5, 2025 10:11am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Trump would have been supplied the figures from one of the Govt. departments.
    Let’s all stop being breathless & give it a month or two, then see how things are.
    
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    April 5, 2025 11:03am
  - AitchW
    
    I supported Trump’s election only because I thought he was the less awful of the two candidates. Now I’m beginning to wonder if I might have been wrong.
    Could Harris have been worse?
    
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    April 5, 2025 11:41am
  - artemisia
    
    I’d say less ‘on the fly’ and more a few big slogans and high level approaches talked through with his closest advisors. Who will have discussed with theirs. Bold stuff, some won’t work and will be tweaked or dropped.
    
    There is a lot of talk here and elsewhere about Prime Minister Luxon being too tentative. Of course those folk will be hailing President Trump’s strategic vision. Right?
    
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    April 5, 2025 1:31pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    He campaigned on this. He won an election on this. He’s talked literally for decades about unfair trade and tariffs. How is that “making it all up on (the) fly”)?
    
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    April 5, 2025 1:34pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Exactly, they have footage of him from the early 90s saying exactly that, he said it was nuts that the US was being shafted like this
      
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      April 5, 2025 1:44pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Heres Nancy Pelosi, Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders all saying they want Tariffs.
        And Trump talking about it in 1988 with Oprah.
        This is hardly ‘on the fly’
        https://x.com/WallStreetApes/status/1908019051676434850?
        
        Bonus article for those who missed it.
        ‘Research into Trump-era tariffs—including studies by economists at the Federal Reserve and the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER)—found minimal pass-through into broad inflation. Any price increases that reached consumers were largely confined to targeted items, with prices elsewhere remaining flat or declining. Inflation under Trump’s first term was typically below the Fed’s two percent target. Kudlow’s point that tariffs alter relative prices rather than cause broad inflation is validated by this empirical evidence.’
        https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2025/03/26/breitbart-business-digest-why-tariffs-do-not-and-cannot-cause-inflation/
        
        We will see what happens.
        
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        April 5, 2025 2:51pm
- emmess
  
  This is Trump’s FATWA
  Fuck all the world again
  
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  April 5, 2025 10:14am
- JackRabbit
  
  Trump is either the biggest idiot on the planet, or , a ~~russian~~ Russian agent.
  
  …will be deranged Trump ~~supports~~supporters cheering him…
  
  [Mod – debate the topic without the personal abuse]
  
  I’m not advocating for or against Trump, but who are you to narrow it down to only two scenarios?
  
  All politics are complex. And I don’t believe that 99.99% of Trump supporters are deranged. I do believe that the USA public are sick and tired of DEI / LGBTQIP, woke climate change, woke media, mRNA vaccines, funding the war theatre in Ukraine, and orchestrated pandemics being
  shoved in their face every second of the day.
  
  That Trump is rolling that back is good.
  
  General economic principles tells you tariffs solve no problem and everyone loses. Far be it from me to pass assessment of the USA economy. As I understand it Trump is doing what most other countries do and introduce tariffs to help internal production.
  
  If Trump really wanted to do what you are suggesting he will cause with his policies, he could have achieved it far more succinctly by not standing for election and let the Democrats win.
  
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  April 5, 2025 11:13am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Already countries are coming to the table to do a deal with the US, as Trump said get rid of your tariffs and ours disappear, I don’t know why we don’t if ours are so low, why not simply drop tariffs against the US 1% on 8billion is 80 million unless I am mistaken, just dump that 80 million and try and get on an even playing field
    
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    April 5, 2025 12:23pm
    - ISeeRed
      
      You make a really good point. If our tariffs are already so low, why have them at all? Getting into Trump’s good books will help NZ exporters and economy, surely?
      
      I really don’t get all the deranged Trump hate and hysteria about 10% tariffs completely destroying the global economy. I’ve seen little constructive criticism, just ORANGE MAN CRAZY!
      
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      April 5, 2025 1:36pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Already countries are coming to the table to do a deal with the US, as Trump said get rid of your tariffs and ours disappear…
      
      That appears to be his strategy.
      
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      April 5, 2025 1:41pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Exactly, and mentioned the tariffs are a tool to lead to dealing, it’s not rocket science, same as the pressure put on Zelenskyy and Putin, it’s about the real, as I said it’s not rocket science
        
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        April 5, 2025 8:56pm
    - westernScientist
      
      Because what he is calling tariffs are not tariffs, we have <2% tariffs on the US, yet they claim we have 20% because of the particular time period they chose to do their trade balance calculation on. I can see how we can reduce our tariffs to 0, and we should, but what about the other 18% where does that come from?
      
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      April 5, 2025 7:36pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  What utter rubbish, they said all this crap last time Trump was in, inflation was rock bottom when he was last in, only to ramp up to insanely high rates under Biden, tge very same way out Marxists over cooked the economy, interest rates net need to drop a little in the US but fed reserve have a job to do, 3% inflation in the US yes it was starting to move up under Biden another mess to be fixed
  
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  April 5, 2025 12:19pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Notice when the economy did well under Trump 2016-2020, a common narrative was he inherited it from Obama. But the supposedly imminent catastrophic recession is “the Trump Recession”, not because of anything Biden did.
    
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    April 5, 2025 1:40pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Hmm, “inflationary conditions (bought about by Trump’s tariffs)”. Yeah, maybe, maybe not. It will remain to be seen whether the tariffs are inflationary, as it depends on who wears the cost of the tariffs. The dollar will adjust in certain circumstances. So it’s going to be interesting. On the rest of your post, it would be sensible to wait and watch surfing. Every ham and egger has an opinion that is often wrong.
  
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  April 5, 2025 12:21pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    It didn’t happen last time
    
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    April 5, 2025 1:47pm
- cmm
  
  A lot really depends on how you look at things.
  
  If your time horizon is only to the end of year or such, then shaking the tree is highly disruptive.
  
  But look longer term.
  
  USA cannot continue the $3T+ per year addition to their debt. That is going to explode in everyone’s face. Not just theirs.
  That debt could keep growing for another few years – possibly – but the more debt they build the worse the crash.
  
  Perhaps using tariffs to try to rebuild USA manufacturing is the only way to soften the landing at all.
  
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  April 5, 2025 12:51pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Agreed.
    
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    April 5, 2025 1:28pm
- pb
  
  We are witnessing the end of Globalism and you are upset?
  
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  April 5, 2025 1:41pm
- Ra Henare
  
  I repeat.
  How long will the tariffs remain in place?
  As I understand it (The art of the deal).
  They are bargaining chips!!!
  
  Sort alike Trump 1.0 tariffs on Canada that hardly lasted a year.
  
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  April 5, 2025 3:20pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    The loud and proud Trump critics are much less informed than they think.
    
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    April 5, 2025 5:38pm
- Patrick
  
  Let’s just see how your comments age.
  
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  April 5, 2025 5:24pm
Souvlaki

I sit firmly in Don Brash’s camp over this.
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/don-brash-shame-on-national-and-christopher-luxon
My hope is that following their shafting by National over arguably ( imo at least) the currently most important issue facing the longterm future of NZ, their supporters seriously reduce National power at the next election by supporting ACT ( & to a lesser extent NZfirst).
I can’t adequately describe how pissed off I am by Luxon & National’s flaccidity over this betrayal !
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April 5, 2025 8:11am
- Simon
  
  National party despise its supporters. They have for a very long time. Just switch to NZF or Act.
  
  National party are insane and hate you. It’s the only explanation.
  
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  April 5, 2025 8:21am
  - surfing
    
    When you say it is the only explanation, you are defined more than the people you are trying to define.
    
    Luxon is a people pleaser and somewhat of a coward. I don’t think he hates you.
    
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    April 5, 2025 10:03am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Us supporters new well before the election of Nats and BZFs stance on the bill, anyone not understanding that is a deluded idiot, anyone wanting to die on just one issue deserves everything a Labour greens TPM government would bring, with sky high taxes, and taxing the so called rich pricks, abolishing the police, a cabinet with perverts in it, and a the icing on the cake a treaty commissioner who can over rule parliament, all these things originally ruled out by Hipkins have a few days later been supported by Mr Flip Flop
    
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    April 5, 2025 12:29pm
- Philview
  
  Per TVNZ last night 92% of submissions opposed the Bill. Probably it is pointless to go on. The media are upset that National are going to suck the oxygen out of this debate. Suddenly the media are worried about democratic process.
  
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  April 5, 2025 8:45am
  - Swifty
    
    Submission quantity is far, far less relevant than submission quality.
    
    Our Parliamentarians should be looking carefully at the arguments, the logic, the evidence, the reasoning – not just slavishly following submission quantities.
    
    Anyway, if treaty bill opponents are so sure that the majority of New Zealanders are opposed – then they’ll have no issue supporting a referendum then will they?
    
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    April 5, 2025 9:33am
    - surfing
      
      99% of submitters have not read the bill. My guess.
      
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      April 5, 2025 10:03am
      - Swifty
        
        Agreed.
        
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        April 5, 2025 10:29am
    - Sacha
      
      Oh, come on!
      Do you really think that ‘our parliamentarians’ are going to read the submissions, much less assess their quality?
      There’ll be two piles – ‘yes’ or ‘no’ and after 5,10, or 15,000 have been sorted, the rest will be filed safely away.
      And how could you justify the expense of a referendum on that basis?
      
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      April 5, 2025 10:26am
      - Swifty
        
        On such matters of great constitutional importance any money spent on a referendum would be money very, very well spent.
        
        Poll after poll shows either an outright majority or a very large minority of New Zealanders support the Treaty Principles Bill – for our parliamentarians to oppose it suggests a deep malaise in our political system.
        
        They are actively campaigning against the wishes of a vast number of New Zealanders, quite probably a majority.
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:09pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Swifty.
      If so many people oppose the bill – & the vast majority who oppose are not Maori, then I’m sure those people are happy with co-governance & second class citizen of the country.
      
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      April 5, 2025 11:07am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Our Parliamentarians should be looking carefully at the arguments, the logic, the evidence, the reasoning.
      
      I agree Swifty, but if that was the directive and operating agenda, the Waitangi Tribunal would have been disbanded long ago, all state funding of media would have stopped, the previous govt stooges would be behind bars for treason, fraud etc, the Green and Maori parties would be a distant memory as they would be sharing cells.
      
      Unfortunately the anti-Treaty Bill mob, arranged for a Tsunami of submissions, no doubt paid for by money copiously thrown out of a helicopter by the previous govt, and still embedded deep state employees.
      
      However, we soldier on, regardless.
      
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      April 5, 2025 11:19am
      - Taieri
        
        the Green and Maori parties would be a distant memory as they would be sharing cells
        ———
        
        Idiocy is not a crime. Unfortunately…
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:07pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Idiocy is not a crime.
        
        But actions that ensue from said idiocy is.
        
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        April 5, 2025 1:44pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      I suspect they will be using AI to assess the submissions (probably with humans reading also just so they can declare “all read by humans”).
      
      If so, I just hope they realise many of these AI engines are infested with wokeness.
      
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      April 5, 2025 4:07pm
  - I remember when
    
    This suggests that something less than 25% of Maori made a submission and many (most?) of those simply added their name to someone else’s submission.
    
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    April 5, 2025 10:58am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Those same morons still have not put the TPU-Curia poll up, even though it was mentioned by them for 3 days when the unthinkable was looking like winning, as this economy improves, then the harder it will be for the deluded left to win
    
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    April 5, 2025 12:32pm
- imalwaysright
  
  I don’t believe that 90% of written submissions were opposed to the proposal.
  Remember a few months ago the committee said that they may treat submissions that are all identical as a single submission? Clearly they have done this in order to achieve their desired result.
  Its ironic that a proposal for equality should be corrupted by eliminating the voice of the individual.
  
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  April 5, 2025 8:48am
  - pdm
    
    I agree.
    
    I am thinking of an OIA request and will blog at No Minister later for help with ideas as I have never done one before..
    
    21 4
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    April 5, 2025 9:19am
    - Mike
      
      Parliament is not subject to the OIA. You can, however, read all the submissions here:
      https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/sc/scl/justice/
      
      5 8
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      April 5, 2025 9:33am
      - pdm
        
        Surely the Justice Select Committee is [Mod – use correct user names]
        
        What other way is there to ensure fair treatment and authenticity of material submitted to the Committee by the bureaucrats?
        
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        April 5, 2025 10:05am
      - Mike
        
        Just reporting the facts.
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:08pm
      - Blog-aholic
        
        No, you cannot read them all as they have not all been posted. Mine is not available and I did not use a template…..so where is it? It was received because parliament acknowledged its arrival with an email to me……
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:12pm
      - Ghost
        
        A lot of submissions, it takes time to process them. They will all be put up as part of the public record.
        
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        April 5, 2025 1:34pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I might get Uncle Grok to assess the submissions. Uncle Grok is not infected with the woke mind virus.
        
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        April 5, 2025 4:09pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Could it be that AI is spamming the submissions process with AI generated anti-bill spam?
        
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        April 5, 2025 4:12pm
    - Ghost
      
      Or you could just ask here, you know, on a blog that is actually successful and gets people reading it, instead of in your graveyard
      
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      April 5, 2025 9:45am
      - Mike
        
        LOL
        
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        April 5, 2025 9:52am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        It can take years to get traction on a blog. Network effect and all that.
        
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        April 5, 2025 4:13pm
      - Ghost
        
        After all these years to still not have any traction. To have most posts with no comments, it is failure. To have pdm come into this blog and say go to my blog and read a post that is just a line and a link to stuff shows what a joke it is to them.
        
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        April 5, 2025 11:46pm
  - Ghost
    
    This has been the done for a long time. It’s why when some idiot puts a link up here to go partake in a mass submission I put a link up to the parliaments submission for that bill and tell them to do it through the parliament website themself.
    
    People never learn
    
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    April 5, 2025 9:42am
    - pdm
      
      [Mod – since I am not getting through to you to use proper names, deleted]
      
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      April 5, 2025 12:51pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They are not allowed to mislead the people on things like this, take you evidence to the police
    
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    April 5, 2025 1:49pm
- Yvette
  
  24,706 Hobson’s Pledge multiple submissions classified as one –
  The Justice Committee’s final report on the Treaty Principles Bill downplays the 24,706 pro-bill submissions from Hobson’s Pledge, effectively valuing them at just one-fifth the weight of five anti-bill submissions, despite outnumbering them all combined.
  _______________
  Treaty Principles Bill report back Final Report of the Justice Committee information from page 5
  
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  April 5, 2025 8:50am
  - Mike
    
    You don’t seem to understand how the committee counted ‘individual’ versus ‘collateral’ submissions.
    
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    April 5, 2025 9:42am
    - Yvette
      
      Final Report of the Justice Committee from page 5
      • Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand and 12,347 others [a single document with 12,347 signatories] • Hapai Te Hauora and 10,020 others • Hobson’s Pledge and 24,706 others • Tauranga Intermediate and 124 others • Tōku Waka and 313 others • Waitomo Papakainga and 207 others.
      
      47,717 collated submissions 23011, supposed now 5 submissions ‘against’ the submission of 24,706 (Hobson’s Pledge), presumed to be ‘for’ and now: 1 So a greater number of submissions ‘for’, Hobson’s Pledge, out-numbered the combined total of the others ‘against’, but now are one fifth of the value that the Committee has given the other five ‘against’ in total.
      
      Please, Mike, or anyone else – tell me where this is mistaken
      I consider it important – whether to feel the Committee actually helps understanding of a position or not
      
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      April 5, 2025 10:12am
      - Mike
        
        It’s not added up that way. The committee has had the submissions sorted into piles, as it were, so save MPs having to read many thousands of identical or near identical arguments.
        It really doesn’t matter how many submissions were from each particular group – the committee was able to consider all the arguments made – to the extent members had not already made up their minds.
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:14pm
    - rouppe
      
      The media went on and on about the single letter opposing the listener 7 and how many signatories that had.
      
      24000 supporting signatories to the idea expressed once should not be diminished as not relevant. It was still 24000 individuals taking action to support an idea.
      
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      April 5, 2025 10:29am
  - kowtow
    
    No doubt it’ll be like Ardern’s alleged 60,000 plastic bag letters .
    
    An exercise by activist far left school teachers to get their pupils “engaged.”
    
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    April 5, 2025 10:23am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They stated at the beginning that those submissions that are a click on the same submission do not count individually, that court out TPM dirty attempt hence the extension to the sub period, anyone dumpy clicking on something like that is deluded if they think that counts, do your personal submission
    
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    April 5, 2025 12:35pm
  - Quail
    
    Yvette,
    An utter undemocratic disgrace.These are the reasons the NZ populace can’t trust any Government!
    Manipulation of referendums will lead to the same for the ballot.
    Oops only half of NZ politicians face the ballot box anyway!
    
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    April 5, 2025 3:27pm
- Mark Hanley
  
  Having an experienced and successful large organisation change manager in charge of NZ is vital!
  
  Luxon, like all great managers, has a plan to lead the coalition into the next election.
  
  Peters and Seymour wisely bought into the plan and are playing their roles extremely well. Remember the animosity between Peters and Seymour before they both came under the Luxon umbrella?
  
  Long term, enduring change takes time to devise, embed, and cement.
  
  Knee jerk Don Brashesque reactions wont work, remember Brash cocking up the timing of his Orewa Kiwi iwi speech then losing the election? Luxon won the election.
  
  So…. be patient dear voters. The good news is rolling in after 18 short months. The next 18 months are targeted in Luxons plan to feature much more good news.
  
  And if my hunch is right, we’ll get a chance to vote on the TOWP in 7 years when the new leader of the coalition is vying for an unprecedented 4th term…. and with overwhelming public support for the TOWP, they’ll probably get that 4th term.
  
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  April 5, 2025 8:53am
  - pdm
    
    MH – if Luxon is driving this he is shafting National Party members and all New Zealand voters.
    
    For Tama Potaka to say yesterday that the bill is `GOING TO THE CREMATORIUM’ is disrespectful, crass and unbecoming of a Minister in any New Zealand Government.
    
    It is the sort of statement I would expect from Trevor Mallard or Willie Jackson.
    
    Have National really sunk that low?
    
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    April 5, 2025 9:24am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      PDM. The advantage of having a successful, big picture PM is he looks past the short term sensationalist BS and makes a plan designed to maximize his change program success.
      
      Taking on Maori activists whilst you’re busy fixing roads, education, social services, public finances, the pulic service, etc would be both mad and unnecessary.
      
      The Coalition are rising in the polls, the Clark advised Maori favoritism smoke bomb has been put to bed by the coalition agreement, and Luxons plan will have the economy humming at the next election so a coalition win will be assured.
      
      The TOWP bill isnt necessary until the next axis of evil has a chance of gaining power, and what better way to woo the masses, than a referendum to sort out the Treaty?
      
      8 16
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      April 5, 2025 9:38am
      - pdm
        
        `The Coalition are rising in the polls…………’
        
        You forgot to say thank you ACT and NZFirst which are where the rise came from.
        
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        April 5, 2025 10:08am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Oh No I Didn’t….
        
        “Peters and Seymour wisely bought into the plan and are playing their roles extremely well.”
        
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        April 5, 2025 10:14am
      - cmm
        
        Mark Handley, here is a genuine question from me:
        
        Are you a paid shill or is Luxon getting all this fandom for free?
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:55pm
      - cmm
        
        “The Coalition are rising in the polls”
        The recent rise in the polls is within the margin of error (ie. statistically meaningless), so I would save your vibrator batteries for a more auspicious occasion.
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:57pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        CMM. Why dont you try adding to the discussion with reason and facts?
        
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        April 5, 2025 1:22pm
    - Mod88
      
      In short YES, they have.
      
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      April 5, 2025 10:25am
    - AitchW
      
      I feel that Potaka is in the wrong party. He’d be a much better fit in the Maori Party.
      
      12 2
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      April 5, 2025 11:45am
    - Ghost
      
      Umm, it was signalled before the election where national sat on this issue. If you voted for national expecting them to support it then you weren’t paying attention.
      
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      April 5, 2025 11:52am
    - DimChappie
      
      Yes PDM, Potaka should be in the Labour Party. Who is he trying to impress with this language? He is a radical activist as Julian Bachelor says. A clear message to support ACT or NZ First rather than the Nats.
      
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      April 5, 2025 1:24pm
      - pdm
        
        DC it was Aitchw who said that.
        
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        April 5, 2025 4:16pm
  - Steve Otto N Shore
    
    If Luxon is still leading National at the next Election, expect a crazy third World Government. He is not reading the room and there is an elephant in it!
    
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    April 5, 2025 9:32am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      When Luxon is leading and managing National at the next election….
      – the hitherto successful change management process will contine,
      – the polls will keep rising,
      – infrastructure will keep getting built,
      – our children will be getting a top notch education,
      – gangs will continue to be targeted and crime will continue dropping.
      – health and wealth outcomes will be improving for all NZers including Maori.
      
      Winning the hearts and minds of the Maori populace, is the single best way to defeat the Maori Party and the Maori Royalty.
      
      9 23
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      April 5, 2025 9:53am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        “Winning the hearts and minds of the Maori populace, is the single best way to defeat the Maori Party and the Maori Royalty”
        
        Mark you are close, I think “Winning the hearts and minds of the populace, is the single best way to defeat TPM and the Maori Royalty and keep the Marxists out of parliament.”
        
        Clearly your heart and mind is won, but many others aren’t so convinced!
        
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        April 5, 2025 11:11am
      - Don Beckett
        
        I hope you are right, but I can’t see it. Luxon is obviously an inltelligent and a very pleasant and personable guy – but he has no mongrel, and I really believe that that is what is needed. He shies away from the difficult when he should be confronting it.
        
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        April 5, 2025 11:15am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Pineapple.
        
        There are no Marxists, only a Clark advised labour hierarchy comprising students, union workers, and teachers whose only obvious path to riches is via taxpayer funds.
        
        Did you notice the Arden axis left the NZ populace fleecing big oligopolies and monopolies alone?
        
        Why would a Marxist do that?
        
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        April 5, 2025 11:29am
      - Steve Otto N Shore
        
        @Don,
        that is it. When Luxon needs to make a decision he needs to make it, not sit on the fence for 3 weeks to too who is happy and who is unhappy.
        As you say, no mongrel.
        
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        April 5, 2025 11:35am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Don. Luxon is taking on….
        – gangs
        – the public service
        – the infrastructure deficit
        – the teachers unions and the DOE
        – rip off wealthy: food, banking, building supply oligopolies (probably the most difficult of Luxons challenges).
        – lowering house prices.
        – signing trade agreements
        
        Which of the above do you consider easy amd how will having a mongrel PM help achieve them?
        
        Why do you think successive governments have ignored these significant NZ quality of life suppressing issues for decades?
        
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        April 5, 2025 11:40am
      - Jack5
        
        Mark Hanley’s (11.40 post) “Luxon is taking on …. banking, building supply oligopolies …
        
        Too many banks are present in NZ for them to be an oligopoly.
        
        The twenty-seven banks registered with the Reserve Bank of NZ include:
        
        – The world’s biggest bank: the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China.
        
        – The world’s third biggest bank: the China Construction Bank.
        
        – The world’s fifth biggest bank: JP Morgan Chase.
        
        – The world’s seventh biggest bank, HSBC )Hong Kong and Shanhai Bank).
        
        – The world’s ninth biggest bank: Mitsubishi UFJ.
        
        Investopedia definition of an oligopoly:
        
        “An oligopoly is a market structure wherein a small number of producers work to restrict output or fix prices so they can achieve above-normal market returns.”
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:41pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Mark, if you seriously believe that anything will win the minds of the Maori populace that vote Labour|Greens|Maori, [Mod – just debate the topic]. A decent proportion of Maori will never vote National, ever. They won’t be given enough. So National shouldn’t be wasting time, energy and money chasing votes that will never come.
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:43pm
      - cmm
        
        National will not win the hearts and minds of TPM voters without lurching radically left and losing even more voters to Act and NZF.
        
        Just ignore the TPM voters stop giving them oxygen. They are radical activists. They will never be a major party.
        
        Rather stick to doing the core stuff properly.
        
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        April 5, 2025 1:00pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        CMM, your answer is once again long on rhetoric and emotion.
        Short on facts..
        
        Did you learn nothing from the Ardern voters?
        
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        April 5, 2025 1:15pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Jack… com com disagrees with you.. here are a few findings from their 2024 banking competition analysis and report….
        
        – The major banks do not face strong competition
        – There is a stable oligopoly with no maverick provider
        – We do not observe consistently strong rivalry between the major banks
        Limited investment in innovation by the banks
        – The New Zealand banking sector has demonstrated sustained high levels of profitability relative to international peers.
        
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        April 5, 2025 2:11pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        In Vito. As promised Luxons coalition is improving the Lives of all nzers with… inflation tamed, economic growth, falling crime, etc.
        
        The average Maori is no different to you and I and will vote for the pm / party making their lives better.
        
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        April 5, 2025 2:29pm
      - westernScientist
        
        Frankly at this point I cant tell the difference between Labour and National. The only difference is their defacto coalition partners, one set make the Nats go a bit slower into the 3rd world, the others make it go a bit faster. Hardly a selling point.
        
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        April 5, 2025 7:19pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    “Luxon, like all great managers, has a plan to lead the coalition into the next election.”
    
    Good for him, but the country is in a dire state. We can’t afford to be subjected to artificial time frames that are designed to cast Luxon in a good light come election day.
    People are losing their jobs, businesses, and houses right now.
    Are we just the supporting cast for the reality show that government has become?
    
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    April 5, 2025 9:53am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      The only artificial time frames are those espoused by the “fix everything now” sect.
      
      I guarantee Luxon and his team are working hard to implement quality change as soon as possible…. their jobs, goals, and aspirations depend on it!
      
      Only a foolish unsuccessful politician ignores the electoral cycle…. see my Don Brash comment above.
      
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      April 5, 2025 10:32am
      - NK
        
        And adding to the betrayal by National Party MPs is the report of the Regulations Review Committee on Gary Judd KC complaint about compulsory tikanga being taught in law schools. The RRC has a 3/2 National Party majority but the piss weak MPs sided with Labour. One of them is Nancy Lu, the deputy chair. I’ve met her and heard her speak. She’s lovely. She probably garners Chinese votes. But I can guarantee readers, without qualification, that she would have no idea on this particular issue.
        
        The report quoted Justices Williams and Glazebrook and their advocacy and support for the decolonisation if Aotearoa’s legal system. They are Supreme Court judges.
        
        I hope I have scared sufficient of you pointing this out, except for Mark Hanley of course, who undoubtedly will see it as a magnificent victory for Supreme Leader Luxon.
        
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        April 5, 2025 11:20am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Nk a partly reasoned argument…. well done.
        
        The Clark advised axis’ judicial appintments were as robust and successful as their navy captain promotions.
        
        It takes time to find quality judges then replace the axis of evil selected “under qualified, no penis, brown, homosexual” cadre of judges … be patient
        
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        April 5, 2025 11:57am
      - Taieri
        
        I guarantee Luxon and his team are working hard to implement quality change as soon as possible
        ———
        
        Instead working so hard they should be working more effectively..
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:12pm
      - pdm
        
        `I guarantee Luxon and his team are working hard to implement quality change as soon as possible…. ‘
        
        [Debate the topic, not the person]
        
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        April 5, 2025 1:20pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Luxon – the Christian who bows to Hindu gods – will not be the man to lead us to our promised land.
    
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    April 5, 2025 10:11am
  - Sparrow
    
    Mark “Luxon , like all great managers”. May I ask how do you know he is a great manager do you have evidence ? Or was it sarcasm
    
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    April 5, 2025 11:27am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      Sparrow, the boards of unilever and air nz thought he knew what he was doing.
      
      And they had tens of thousands of candidates to choose from.
      
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      April 5, 2025 11:44am
      - Observer of Life
        
        Ah.. I’m not so sure the Air NZ board agreed toward the end of his tenure.
        
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        April 5, 2025 2:22pm
      - Sparrow
        
        I doubt that there were thousands. From my experience in the corporate world boards like a safe pair of hands. Dont rock the boat just follow the corporate mission, no free thinking. Good company man. Fits in well in huge and or virtual monopoly organisation’s such as Unilever and AIRNZ. So they will try and please everybody without upsetting anybody. OK for big corporates but politics is grubby shit stirring cess pit where you need to be street smart, not just smart. You can be his cheer leader but he is regarded as a dud from all sides. He is not the genuine article. Sorry.
        
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        April 5, 2025 4:09pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Sparrow there are over 10,0000 air nz employees, not many of them would say no to the ceo package.
        
        There is a complex system of regular assessment and promotion within large organisations. Whilst you might jump a few spots above your pay grade playing politics, you certainly won’t get to ceo without proving you’re fit for the job.
        
        And I would never presume to know more than the airnz board. They have all the kpi measurements, the staff feedback, customer assessments, and financial results at their fingertips. Plus they were appointed to the board by excelling themselves, so have a clue as to whether someone will and is performing well.
        
        What other NZ political figure has a more impressive managerial pedigree?
        
        Noone on kiwiblog has yet come up with referenced concrete facts Luxon is anything but top notch
        
        I’ve posted plenty of references showing the impressive results his leadership has brought about.
        
        Give the man a chance, we’ll all be better off.
        
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        April 5, 2025 6:39pm
      - westernScientist
        
        Most of us probably boycott unilever companies and AirNZ because they are horrible companies that only exist because of government interference though regulation and hand outs. To me and i imagine a lot here, those are not good things, they are disqualifies, someone who has been in those positions has no moral conviction and is clearly a dishonest person who will deceive, lie, step on and screw over whoever is between them and a little more failing upwards. Given your conviction, make sure you call your bank before giving the Nigerian prince all of your money.
        
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        April 5, 2025 7:11pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Luxon is more of a caretaker than a manager. His only skin in the game of any of his jobs was his end of year bonus.
      
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      April 5, 2025 11:56am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        A caretaker who.
        – won an election.
        – took over and transformed a dispirited unsuccessful National party,
        – found and promoted hither to unrecognized top notch ministers,
        – put the structures in place to allow those ministers to thrive,
        – quickly mastered the media
        – tamed Winston peters.
        
        Not bad for a caretaker with no skin in the game.
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:17pm
      - westernScientist
        
        Yes he is the best leader Labour has ever had! Rejoice, our saviour has come down from the rainbow tick palace in Air New Zealand to bestow on us the moral virtue of corporatism and crony capitalism! We are saved and can print money until we are all prosperous, but remember some animals are more equal than others, know your place gamma, you do not deserve to speak to the Betas and Alphas with your trifle about equal opportunity and equality before the law.
        
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        April 5, 2025 7:02pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Yes, and my post from scoop about the government books are now 1.6 billion better than expected, after being 1.2 billion better just one month ago says it all, no other media mentioned this, I note debt for the 8 months is only 5 billion, well down from the 8 billion expected after 8 months
    
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    April 5, 2025 12:38pm
- David Garrett
  
  Souv: Everything Don says is spot on. But what Luxon is doing has much wider implications. The legislature is supposed to be – at least to some extent – separate from the executive. What is happening here shows that to be not really the case: Luxon has obviously told the Committee chair to report the Bill back early so the second reading can happen before Easter.
  
  And Don’s suspicions about the reason for that timing are also spot on: Luxon hopes that after his minions vote the Bill down, the public will forget all about it over the Easter break. Utterly disgraceful, and undemocratic.
  
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  April 5, 2025 8:56am
  - alex Masterley
    
    DG. I agree with the suggestion that the powers that be thinking the Treaty Principals bill being voted out will be forgotten in the next news cycle. It is as bad as Mr Hipkins hoping that the public will forget about labour’s actions during the covid years.
    
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    April 5, 2025 9:02am
    - Souvlaki
      
      Ahh yes….the decerebrate may forget….those that vote…not so much !
      If there WERE to be a citizen’s initiated referendum, what do the cognoscenti think would be the eventual outcome ??
      
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      April 5, 2025 9:16am
      - David Garrett
        
        Souv: If a CIR was held on the Treaty Principles Bill I am pretty sure about 70% – if not more – would support it.
        
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        April 5, 2025 9:23am
      - pdm
        
        My thoughts re percentage in support too DG.
        
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        April 5, 2025 9:25am
      - kowtow
        
        We don’t have too long to wait.
        
        The local govt elections in Oct will effect be a nation wide referendum.Given the requirement to vote on the Maori wards/representation.
        
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        April 5, 2025 9:38am
      - rockape
        
        A realy smart National leader could win the next election easily. But who is the smart leader?
        All they need do is hold two referenda with the next election. One on the treaty and one on withdrawing from the Paris accord. Let. Labour, Greens and Maori campaign against that and watch their vote plummet.
        Sadly they don’t have a smart leader.
        
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        April 5, 2025 10:06am
    - kowtow
      
      News cycle .
      
      Two items dropped on the public on a Friday afternoon.
      
      The ship sinking and the torpedoing of the Bill by the Nats .
      
      Clearly the Nats working hard and cynically to ‘clear the decks” .
      
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      April 5, 2025 9:57am
      - Conservatarian
        
        Well, Luxon had a very demanding week. He needed recovery after taking the extremely strong and decisive position of saying “I think it’s inappropriate” to describe the pro-PDF sentiment expressed on Benjamin Doyle’s personal Instagram. Perhaps Luxon was also referring to young Ms Swarbrick’s apparent endorsement of the sentiment on the basis that the Queer Community (aka those who weaponise their alphabet mafia identity) are edgy and cool and can’t be expected not to have abhorrent views.
        
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        April 5, 2025 11:40am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        No bill has been torpedoed ffs, it’s going to 2nd reading soon, without NZFs vote a doesn’t matter a jot what Nats say or do
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:48pm
- Quail
  
  Agreed Souviaki,
  Politicians have a duty to read all submissions .There is plenty of them to do so.!
  Also to the “ Regulatory Systems (Primary Industries ) Amendment Bill.discussed in the house but not debated recently
  This is a Labour created bill being passed by National with both parties speaking in support.
  There are more than 60 changes to existing rural legislation .
  Included are at least two issues involved that have been very contentious in the past.—Walking Access and the Nait regulation.
  It is not clear what the changes will mean to rural folk but there is little transparency as to the content out in Rural NZ.I do not know of any consultation.
  Nationals record in passing Labours legislation has not been to the benefit of NZ in the past!
  Think RMA.
  There is little trust left in all our Government,
  
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  April 5, 2025 9:01am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Quail
    You may recall some years ago the start-up of the NZ Walking Access Commission which set about telling farmers and other rural land owners what to expect regarding providing access, whether they liked it or not.
    This is what the Commission looks like now –
    It has a lot of “teams” of experts working for the people who wish to access private land.
    https://www.herengaanuku.govt.nz/
    I don’t imagine any individual or group with concerns about people accessing their privately owned land would have the slightest chance of being listened to today.
    
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    April 5, 2025 9:45am
    - Mike
      
      The commission has fewer than 3o staff. I doubt it is the force you imagine.
      
      2 14
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      April 5, 2025 9:57am
    - kowtow
      
      I would have expected a NACT govt to have a robust defence of private property rights , and both to be heavily pro farmer .
      
      Or will the urban vote ( much bigger) and feelz sway their alleged commitment to their “principles”.
      
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      April 5, 2025 10:02am
      - pdm
        
        kowtow and gravel.
        
        I think Brooke van Velden is in the course of fixing this.
        
        Farmers permission will soon be needed for people to be able to access private land – which is as it should be.
        
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        April 5, 2025 10:28am
      - kowtow
        
        pdm
        
        Excellent , as it should be.
        
        Mind you, be a pain in the arse for farmers fielding calls .
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:23pm
- pdm
  
  Should we all March on Parliament next week?
  
  Bugger we cannot because:
  We have to go to work Monday.
  We have to get children to school Monday.
  We have to look after Children after school Monday.
  We all have social and other commitments Monday.
  We all understand the concept of no work – no pay.
  We all have families to provide for.
  
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  April 5, 2025 9:14am
  - Steve Otto N Shore
    
    Funny how the same group of dropkicks don’t need to work, and have no responsibilities.
    
    19 4
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    April 5, 2025 9:16am
    - Mike
      
      Are you thinking of the Covid protestors who camped at parliament for weeks?
      
      6 25
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      April 5, 2025 9:35am
      - MCōs
        
        Those people, Groundswell, Destiny Church don’t count
        
        3 10
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        April 5, 2025 10:15am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        The anti-mandates protestors were a very diverse group. Many had been forced out of careers by the mandates, some lost their homes. They were supported in the hearts and minds of many NZers as was seen by all those who stood on the roadside with flags and signs of encouragement as they drove to Wellington. They were also provided with generous financial support from everyday kiwis making donations.
        
        The level of support and the capabilities of that protest were shown by the way the organised food, cooking facilities etc and fed the masses. They even plumbed toilets into the Wellington sewerage system. They were certainly not drop kicks.
        
        The fearful and besotted with Jacinda faithful will continue to be scared by the anti-mandates protest movement. But there are many who would happily donate to their cause again if NZ ever succumbs to similar tyranny.
        
        [Mod – debate the topics, not the person]
        
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        April 5, 2025 10:58am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Well put Pineapple.
        Don’t forget the hiding dished out by Coster’s goons on behalf of the State.
        
        I’m still waiting for the same goons to deal to the domestic terrorists known as gangs, but I think they are all still on stress leave for ptsd and polishing their medals.
        
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        April 5, 2025 12:14pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        People I know who went spent a mere day or less there. So people coming and going throughout. There was a very wide spectrum of NZ turning up there. No so the usual juvenile cancel culture clowns “protesting” this or that infraction of their nutty woke luxury beliefs.
        
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        April 5, 2025 4:22pm
    - Steve Otto N Shore
      
      Some protest groups are made up with the same people, every time.
      
      6 3
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      April 5, 2025 11:37am
- Damocles11
  
  If they think people are just going to forget about the betrayal of all New Zealanders that has occurred, they are kidding.
  
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  April 5, 2025 9:24am
- pb
  
  Never ever trust a dude who pushed Air New Zealand to implement the Rainbow Tick.
  
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  April 5, 2025 1:47pm
Southern Raider

Saw a clip of a recent Jack Tame interview with Debbie Packer

She was claiming he coalition were “white suprematists”. Jack countered with if they were why would they have renewed $180M of Whatu Ora contracts.

She tried to claim they had a Treaty obligation to do so and they are still white suprematists. Jack countered but if they were why would they care about any obligation under the Treaty.

It’s probably the best interview Jack has done and the discussion goes around in circles with him slamming Debbie from all sides.
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April 5, 2025 8:20am
- Swifty
  
  For her to label the actions of this government as ecocidal and genocidal merely confirms how ignorant and deluded she has become.
  
  To use those words is the height of irresponsibility – some people will believe her.
  
  She disgusts me.
  
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  April 5, 2025 9:37am
  - PurplePen
    
    She won’t be ignorant. She’s just playing to the ignorant that will believe her. She’s bolstering TPM votes almost like clickbait and ensuring someone from TPM are in the media every week. What else do they ever do.
    
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    April 5, 2025 11:22am
    - Swifty
      
      I agree – she knows what she’s doing. She knows the meaning of those words.
      
      It’s just another outright lie to add to the pile.
      
      Like that Aotearoa was the original name for New Zealand – it wasn’t.
      Like that Maori are indigenous – they aren’t.
      That the Treaty is a partnership – it isn’t and never was.
      That Maori didn’t cede sovereignty – they did.
      That the actual genocide committed on the Moriori was somehow the Crown’s fault and responsibility, rather than Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutanga – it wasn’t.
      That Maori knowledge is on a par with science and the scientific process – it isn’t, not even close.
      
      Etc etc.
      
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      April 5, 2025 12:16pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Maybe, but it tells level headed voters there is no way I can vote for Labour cause TPM in cabinet, Nats are never going to win TPM votes, or 2/3 of green votes, so the more shit they talk the better
      
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      April 5, 2025 1:56pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  He knows just how bad Labour relying on TPM will be for Labour, he is doing his dirty work to scare the fullas back to Labour, no mention by him of the pervert in Greens
  
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  April 5, 2025 12:51pm
Simon

With Trump tariffs wide open for NZ to attract capital by becoming a cheaper place to do business. This is achieved by gutting Net Zero, reduced regulation, red tape and reducing income tax rates. Especially taxes on salary and wage.

But NZ is run by cretins who worship state power and the very idea of increasing living standards outside of government over reach makes them sick.

For every clown crying about Trump tariffs they ignore the other side of the coin which is real opportunity making NZ a better place to do business. Massive capital is on the sidelines now because of tariffs. Clown Show Wellington. Just look at them.
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April 5, 2025 8:37am
Bridgenag

Friday Funnies: True Data is Hard to Find…
Funny how the system works (or doesn’t )

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/friday-funnies-true-data-is-hard?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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April 5, 2025 8:39am
Chuck Bird

It might be a good time to buy some shares.
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April 5, 2025 9:03am
- pdm
  
  Or at least put money into International share based Managed Funds like your KiwiSaver.
  
  We did earlier in the week.
  
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  April 5, 2025 9:16am
  - rouppe
    
    All my money was already in international managed funds.
    
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    April 5, 2025 9:37am
  - MCōs
    
    My wife forgot her online banking app PIN number a couple of months ago while we were offshore. When the problem was resolved a couple of days ago she was shocked at how much her Kiwisaver account had gone down from what she remembered
    On the other hand the value of some gold she bought has skyrocketed
    
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    April 5, 2025 9:55am
    - Mike
      
      Tough times are coming. Remember to stock up on gold, canned food, and ammunition.
      
      3 5
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      April 5, 2025 12:04pm
      - rouppe
        
        What’s the point in stocking up on ammunition when Comrade Ardern took away all the firearms from the law abiding people?
        
        6 3
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        April 5, 2025 1:49pm
      - Quail
        
        Rouppe,
        Can’t afford ammunition anyway today.On a par with gold price!
        
        1 1
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        April 5, 2025 5:18pm
      - Jethrod
        
        And toilet paper!!
        
        1 1
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        April 5, 2025 8:33pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      I’m not even going to look at my managed fund. No point. Might check in 6 months after the dust has (hopefully) somewhat settled. I do keep literal cash just in case our extremely complex and fragile electronic networks go down.
      
      1 0
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      April 5, 2025 4:30pm
  - rockape
    
    Just transferred 40k from savings to managed fund with Blackrock.
    
    6 0
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    April 5, 2025 10:08am
    - Greenheart
      
      Interested at your timing. Is Trump going to persist with his tariff regime or will there be an extended trade war leading to prolonged market falls? Who knows.
      
      3 3
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      April 5, 2025 10:37am
      - Southern Raider
        
        Trump just wants to do deals.
        
        The arrogant trade blocks like EU and Canada will try and start a trade war and grandstand. Countries like NZ and AU and UK will keep quiet and carry on as usual.
        
        Smarter nations with higher tariffs will just negotiate some extra trade and get the tariffs reduced.
        
        Also as Todd McClay said our perceived trade deficit with USA is only a couple of new plane purchases different.
        
        This could benefit NZ trade.
        
        10 3
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        April 5, 2025 11:31am
      - Jack5
        
        The two-day sell-off (yesterday and early today NZ) took the US sharemarkets down more than $US6 trillion, the equivalent of about 10,740 billion NZ dollars.
        
        The Wall Street Journal reports: “Big names in virtually every industry were hit, from Silicon Valley behemoths like Apple and Meta Platforms to aerospace manufacturer Boeing to oil producer Devon Energy. Shares of private-equity giant Apollo Global Management lost about a fifth of their value this week, as did United Airlines.”
        
        Falls over the week: Dow Jones Industrial Average 7.9 per cent, Nasdaq, the tech-focused market, 10 per cent.
        
        3 0
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        April 5, 2025 1:22pm
      - pdm
        
        Greenheart – it is all about TIME IN rather than timing.
        
        2 1
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        April 5, 2025 1:28pm
      - Jack5
        
        The good news: world oil prices have fallen to their lowest for three years. Two benchmark trading contracts have plunged. Brent crude 6.6 per cent to $US65.49 a barrel, and WTI futures 7.2 per cent to $US62.13 a barrel.
        
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        April 5, 2025 1:30pm
      - rockape
        
        Other countries will fold and the tariffs will be reduced. It’s already started and look at the number of countries relocating to the USA, that’s what Trump is after, when he succeeds in that markets will bounce back.
        
        6 1
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        April 5, 2025 1:35pm
      - westernScientist
        
        @rockape – fold on what? A number of these countries has a trade surplus with the US but dont really have any tariffs on them – much like us, just our surplus is fairly small. For example, what concessions can Lesotho make to get a lower than 50% tariff, they are a small 3rd world nation. Or Myanmar, I guess they are in a civil war, they could buy some fighter jets?
        
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        April 5, 2025 6:48pm
- Bevan
  
  Not yet, load up your trading account and watch the stocks you want to buy. They are still dropping and likely will continue but the bounce back up will come.
  
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  April 5, 2025 1:20pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    I predict some up-ward correction by end of next week, perhaps a 500 point day or more
    
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    April 5, 2025 2:00pm
Damocles11

The whole Treaty Principles bill process has been an exercise is identifying those who support Maori privilege and the maorification of New Zealand, and those who oppose it.
We have now sorted the wheat from the chaff, and can clearly see who is on the side of democracy and equal rights and duties for all New Zealanders, and who isn’t. So the forces lined up against democracy and equality – including Luxon and National and several prominent ex-National political grandees – can celebrate winning a battle, but hopefully they eventually lose the war. Because the war won’t end with the defeat of the Treaty Principles bill, there is plenty more water to flow under the bridge. In the meantime, ruminate on these comments by a National party Minister –

‘“Thank goodness that is coming to cremation day,” said Potaka, the Māori Development Minister.
“Nehu [burial] day is coming, folks. Nehu day is coming for the Treaty Principles Bill. Can’t wait to see that nehu day.”’
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April 5, 2025 9:13am
- Gravelroad
  
  If these insulting quotes attributed to a National Minister are genuine then the National Party needs to reassess its purpose.
  I don’t belong to any political party and I certainly would not join or contribute funds to any party which sanctioned entitled Ministers to arrogantly dismiss the views of many citizens who were invited to share those views by way of submissions to a bill.
  Invited by one of the National Party’s coalition’s partners.
  Tone deaf National.
  
  24 1
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  April 5, 2025 10:11am
  - pdm
    
    `If these insulting quotes attributed to a National Minister are genuine then the National Party needs to reassess its purpose.’
    
    I first heard them in the middle of the day yesterday on a NewstalkZB news bulletin which unfortunately did not include a clip of Potaka spouting them forth.
    
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    April 5, 2025 10:35am
    - Conservatarian
      
      Everything about Tama Potaka screams leftist involved in the Maori grifting industry but chosen to wear a blue jersey. From his Wikipedia profile:
      
      – Worked for big NZ law firms Rudd, Watts and Stone (now Minter Ellison) and Belly Gully,
      – Various public policy roles
      – seven years as general manager corporate services for Tainui Group Holdings.
      – Some funds management including being a senior advisor at the NZ Super Fund
      – CEO of Ngāi Tai ki Tāmaki Trust in 2020.
      – In 2021, chosen as one of four lead negotiators for a Treaty claim.
      
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      April 5, 2025 12:54pm
      - pdm
        
        Aligned to Tuku Morgan maybe – conserva.
        
        4 0
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        April 5, 2025 1:31pm
      - Conservatarian
        
        PDM, we might have to inspect Potaka’s taste in underwear before we comment further on any links to Tuku.
        
        6 2
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        April 5, 2025 1:34pm
  - Quail
    
    GR,
    Absolutely right GR.
    Submitting and submitters should be treated with respect as should voters .
    A MPs job is to listen to ALL their constituents. Potaka’s arrogant comments are totally unacceptable,
    
    2 0
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    April 5, 2025 3:49pm
Mike

I see Trump wants the federal reserve to cut interest rates. It seems he’s keen on stagflation.
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April 5, 2025 9:37am
- surfing
  
  I’m not sure why you got 3 downvotes. Unless one thinks economics no longer apply, you are correct.
  
  https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-perfect-time-fed-cut-interest-rates-2025-04-04/
  
  I’m guessing, it’s OK when Trump ruins the economy , because he has a plan.
  
  I think if Trump had taken more care about what he was doing, he’d have more supporters. Instead, he took a good idea (targeting China) and ruined it by targeting allies and friends while cuddling up to enemies such as Russia, Iran, and North Korea. Crazy times.
  
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  April 5, 2025 10:13am
  - Conservatarian
    
    “Cuddling up to” Iran whilst simultaneously bombing their proxy (the Houthis) in Yemen?
    
    Amazing logic.
    
    7 4
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    April 5, 2025 1:32pm
    - surfing
      
      I’m referring to this…
      
      https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/u-s-votes-with-russia-on-un-res-condemning-invasion
      
      The United States voted with Russia, North Korea, Iran and 14 other Moscow-friendly countries Monday against a resolution condemning Russian aggression in Ukraine
      
      Do you approve? I guess if Trump says, all good?
      
      4 3
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      April 5, 2025 2:12pm
- Conservatarian
  
  My only regret is that the MS-13 gang members and other criminal alien murderers and rapists and abusers deported by Tom Homan (with Trump’s blessing) will not be in the US to enjoy the tariffs and the stagflation Milky refers to.
  
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  April 5, 2025 1:21pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Temporary. His massive restructuring will cause temporary disruption. That’s inevitable with any big clean-out.
  
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  April 5, 2025 4:38pm
Rusty

Is their irony with Trumps higher tariffs and the doom and gloom predictions? Many of these countries he has imposed tariffs on were quite prepared to shut down their economies during the covid scare knowing the hardships it would cause their people.
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April 5, 2025 10:30am
MCōs

An iPhone 16 Pro Max (256 GB) cost around $485 to make in China. The American tariff on Chinese stuff is 34%, which would be $164.9
Maybe Apple would absorb that increase at least in the short term
Is that how it works?
A tariff is entirely different from some sort of sales tax
The 10% on our stuff doesn’t equate to 10% increase in the shops, but an increase nevertheless
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April 5, 2025 10:40am
- Stu2
  
  Not entirely different to a sales tax.
  
  Just applied earlier on the import cost rather than a sales tax applied to the final cost, which includes importer, distributor and retailer margins.
  
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  April 5, 2025 11:09am
  - NK
    
    Yeah, exporters might find that tax cost in their margin somewhere and not charge anything extra to the consumer.
    
    3 1
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    April 5, 2025 11:25am
- JackRabbit
  
  The tariffs and sale tax do not account for or directly relate to the price of iPhones in shops. All the distribution and shipping costs, currency exchange, multiple margins, marketing etc are what make it the price it is. Marketing being the biggest cost of all.
  
  Maybe Apple would absorb that increase at least in the short term.
  
  Why would any company want to absorb an increase in costs of that size? They will never be able to make iPhones in the USA as cheaply. Chinese companies, as the USA does not have the anything like the scale of automated factories like China does.
  
  The whole reason for the tariffs is to gain an economic advantage. And the USA consumer, and Chinese manufacturers will pay the price fro Trump’s stupidity in creating tariffs.
  
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  April 5, 2025 11:40am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Apple are now going to build a factory in the US, see how it works
  
  5 4
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  April 5, 2025 12:54pm
  - surfing
    
    You’d think it will be largely automated. That is the way to beat China, take out the forced labour requirement.
    
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    April 5, 2025 2:11pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      You’d think it will be largely automated. That is the way to beat China, take out the forced labour requirement.
      
      [1] Automation is the reason why China currently surpasses USA production in speed, cost, and accuracy.
      
      [2] Said Automation is performed with private companies, many Hong Kong registered, not the Chinese govt.
      
      [3] The idea of Chinese sweat shops, with rows and rows of Chinese ladies working on dirt floors, and hand soldering PCBs is 50 years out of date.
      
      99% of electronic components are way too small to solder by hand, and almost invisible to the naked eye, so automation is the only way to have printed circuit boards manufactured.
      
      Some factories can often ship small production runs within 48-72 hours from receiving the order and payment. That cannot be done by hand.
      
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      April 5, 2025 3:22pm
      - westernScientist
        
        Nothing to see here…. https://www.forbes.com/sites/siminamistreanu/2020/03/02/study-links-nike-adidas-and-apple-to-forced-uighur-labor/ or https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-nike-coca-cola-lobbied-china-uyghur-forced-labor-bill-2020-11 or many others
        
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        April 5, 2025 6:31pm
- cmm
  
  “An iPhone 16 Pro Max (256 GB) cost around $485 to make in China.”
  
  No it doesn’t.
  
  That is the complete manufactured cost, including components etc – most of the high value components are from USA and elsewhere and just assembled in China.
  
  The contribution from China (ie. a small number of components and the actual assembly costs) is well under $100 – likely under $50. So the cost of tariffs would be around $20.
  
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  April 5, 2025 1:06pm
  - westernScientist
    
    Are you sure? I agree with your point about manufacturing costs, but if component X is made in the USA, then shipped to china and component X used as part of an assembled into a phone and shipped back, how is the US bureaucracy ever going to sort out “well components X Y and Z were originally manufactured in the US so we wont change a tariff on them, components A, B and C were manufactured in Vietnam, so they get Vietnam tariff rates…” I cant see how that would ever happen, administratively the tariffs will be enough of a nightmare to apply, I cant see them doing anything other than “Iphone came across border on ship from china so will charge china tariff rate”
    
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    April 5, 2025 6:26pm
- nz_aj
  
  Apple has pledged that it would spend more than $500 billion in the United States over the next four years.
  Shifting their manufacturing to avoid tariffs and paying tax in the US, employing people who pay tax in the US, is the outcome.
  It also provides a manufacturing base that can be redirected to a war effort if required.
  This is all well planned, with plenty of input from the likes of Scott Bessent and Stephen Miran. Have a listen to their interviews on YouTube.
  
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  April 5, 2025 1:14pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    It also provides a manufacturing base that can be redirected to a war effort if required.
    
    A war with whom?
    
    The war, and threats are not external, they are internal. Exactly how is setting up a costly manufacturing base in the USA, going to combat DEI, fake climate change, fake pandemics. How will it stop election corruption, and the mainstream media pushing bullshit?
    
    The USA is already involved in way too many wars in countries it has no right to be in, save for the elite war mongers needing cash-flow, oil companies needing protection, and minerals companies paying to have wars started in areas where mineral deposits are untapped.
    
    In any case, the USA does alright in war without needing to bring everything back to the USA.
    
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    April 5, 2025 1:39pm
I remember when

“But Collins said there have never been a case, in the history of New Zealand’s Parliament, where MPs have been unable to speak for themselves.”

Surely, this is a weakness the media should have been drawing attention to when mentioning the matter.
Te Pati Maori speakers showing a lack of ability justify their actions.
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April 5, 2025 11:38am
- pdm
  
  Except when they are `whipped’ to vote along party lines.
  
  Ah la the Treaty Principles bill.
  
  I bet $1 to a pinch of goat poo that we will not hear any National MP’s supporting the bill during the debate. Even the ones that support it it will have to toe the party line.
  
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  April 5, 2025 1:36pm
  - AitchW
    
    MPs are always whipped to vote on party lines except in conscience votes. There may be some odd exceptions, but as a rule you vote on party lines.
    
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    April 5, 2025 4:35pm
AitchW

Were Dave and Debs simply too scared to turn up the Privileges Committee meeting? Too timid to explain their actions?
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April 5, 2025 12:11pm
Bridgenag

Billboard Chris vs. Australia lawsuit wrap-up
Censored for misgendering

https://open.substack.com/pub/rebekahbarnett/p/billboard-chris-vs-australia-lawsuit?r=5aqwv0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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April 5, 2025 12:32pm
Swifty

New Sowell!

Sowell on the tariffs. Recorded a few days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9LYO_qFLeE
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April 5, 2025 12:38pm
kowtow

For a bit of fun , check the radio hauraki facebook page with executive producer Rooda doing an excellent musical skit on ‘B is for bussy’ .
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April 5, 2025 3:55pm
Swifty

Let’s just add it to Kainga Ora’s bill shall we?

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/15d6ZPPzXX/?mibextid=wwXIfr
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April 5, 2025 6:18pm
- Ghost
  
  Also fits as.
  
  Finding out your baby daddy has several other kids
  Trying to regift Ardern’s book
  Maori party elect a new leader
  
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  April 5, 2025 6:26pm
fernglas

I’m waiting eagerly for SteveOtto North Shore to explain how his master strategist 3d chess playing idol has done something rational with tariffs. Or perhaps he’s too busy consoling his mates in Alaska over the 12.5% increase in price in their new truck.
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April 5, 2025 9:48pm

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