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January 15, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 15 January 2025

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General Debate

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Benedict Yu

It is fascinating that for some folk, COVID vaccines have become synonymous with the risk of blood clots and disorders of the blood vessels. Of course, this is nonsense, or at least wildly exaggerated.

What has caused an increase in blood vessel diseases, including blood clots, is COVID itself. It can cause serious blood clotting problems. This is just one of dozens of studies that reveal this danger.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/is-coronavirus-a-disease-of-the-blood-vessels

Yes, the COVID vaccines can cause blood clots. However the risk is thousands of times less than the risk of deadly blood clots from COVID itself.

If you are especially at risk of blood clots, as I am, and you are not vaccinated against COVID, I would encourage you to look at the overwhelming evidence of the risks imposed by the disease.

This is not medical advice. For that see your doctor.
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January 15, 2025 8:05am
- Luke Piewalker
  
  Your article has as much creditably as the one saying: Climate change: How worsening heatwaves could hurt your heart. https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/health/climate-change-how-worsening-heatwaves-could-hurt-your-heart-in-nz/
  
  … nil credibility
  
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  January 15, 2025 8:15am
  - Steve Otto N Shore
    
    Newstalk ZB. The photo shows the guy holding on to the left of his chest.
    My heart is in a different place to that – between my lungs. I must be different.
    
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    January 15, 2025 10:35am
- Michael Sommerville
  
  Hi Benedict. Thank your for the link. I have read the article and found it very interesting and helpful.
  
  I cannot understand why anyone would down tick a comment that gives facts from a competent source. As with everything, believe what you want to, but facts help with that decision making.
  
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  January 15, 2025 8:24am
  - David Garrett
    
    Bene: I admire you for continuing to buck the “vaccines were poison” – narrative is the buzzword today – on here regarding the vaccines. It takes courage for someone – especially using their own name – to continue to face ridicule for posting something which goes against the prevailing …narrative.
    
    FWIW I am somewhere in the middle on this one – a rather unusual position for me! While I had three shots, I would not be taking any more, and I believe that evidence was suppressed, and that we were plain out lied to by the Princess and those around her. In the fullness of time, I am confident the full story will emerge.
    
    There is certainly no doubt – and I think it is now admitted – that these “vaccines” were something entirely new and fundamentally different, and it is undeniable that they didn’t got through anything like the exhaustive and lengthy testing which preceded all the conventional vaccines – such as for polio, tetanus, and the childhood diseases – which only nutters think are dangerous.
    
    So good on you mate – you are one of the most sensible, lucid and valuable commenters here. Stick to your guns.
    
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    January 15, 2025 9:19am
    - Ghost
      
      Well said. It is a personal choice. Hopefully soon this daily vaccine crap will die off. It’s been done over and over, change the record
      
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      January 15, 2025 10:02am
    - Steve Otto N Shore
      
      When the full story does emerge I want to see “the Princess and those around her” face the music. To walk away with no responsibility of what was done to NZ and the Citizens is just not good enough.
      You are correct about the other vaccines. I have seen what Polio does, a teacher with steel legs and crutches. Click, click to pull the knee pins to sit down.
      
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      January 15, 2025 10:42am
    - Philview
      
      I listened to the Scottish historian and journalist Neil Oliver the other day. He was talking about the longstanding pandemic plan in the UK being binned during Covid and NATO took over the co-ordination and planning. Sweden not being in NATO did their own thing. Neil Oliver was shocked that NATO’s involvement wasn’t widely reported. It seems too many secrets during that time have caused a lot of trust issues. Likewise I am in no rush to get another vaccination.
      
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      January 15, 2025 11:26am
      - Steve Otto N Shore
        
        Is there a YouTube link to that? I can only find older ones.
        
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        January 15, 2025 2:59pm
- cmm
  
  “A thousand times less” is hyperbole. I doubt very much there is a solid statistical basis for a claim like that.
  
  If I was in your position with an extremely elevated chance of clotting, I would investigate the risk/rewards closely and would likely reach the same conclusion as you did – for myself and certainly not for others.
  
  I only have afib with a lower level of clotting risk (still on mild anti-clotting drugs though), so no thanks.
  
  The establishment from top to bottom has been lying and continue to do so. I distrust anything they say. If I was at a heightened risk I would have more reason to look closely. I am not, therefore I won’t.
  
  It astounds me that the establishment is prepared to throw around this unproven vaccine with gay abandon, yet even the mini dose of asprin or other drugs that have been in use for 50+ years are controlled as serious medication.
  
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  January 15, 2025 8:27am
  - imalwaysright
    
    The jab doesn’t thin the blood and it doesn’t stop you getting the cold therefore it has no effect on clotting.
    Its wilful ignorance or blind fear.
    
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    January 15, 2025 9:10am
  - David Garrett
    
    cmm: The establishment from top to bottom has been lying and continue to do so. I distrust anything they say
    
    Quite so. Some day soon – if not already – some sociology post grad will do a Ph.D on how much public confidence in the government and “the establishment” was lost by pushing these virtually untried and fundamentally new “vaccines” on us. And they were pushed on us. Claiming people had a choice when they lost their jobs if they didn’t obey the edicts is utter nonsense.
    
    I was just fortunate enough to be self employed, so any decision I made was one entirely for myself on the basis of the evidence then available. I very much doubt I would make the same decision(s) now.
    
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    January 15, 2025 9:28am
    - cmm
      
      DG: Nope, I think you are incorrect. Such sociology PhD will blame everything on far right conspiracy theorists and recommend coming down hard on any remaining freedom of speech.
      
      I too am self employed which gave me far more leeway.
      
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      January 15, 2025 10:17am
  - JackRabbit
    
    I only have afib with a lower level of clotting risk…
    
    A GP, well experienced in heart issues, pointed me in the direction of articles, such as this one:
    
    On October 26, 2022, the FAA changed the acceptable PR interval to less than 0.30 seconds and removed the reference to the individuals’ age.
    
    Previously the PR interval was 0.21 seconds, and the PR interval was lengthened because pilots were failing their annual medicals. As the doctor pointed out, any ECG that shows an increased PR interval is of concern, either statically or as an increase from the last ECG.
    
    This link is a PDF created by Ron Johnson
    United States Senator, from a letter from the FAA.
    
    https://tinyurl.com/3y7m883s
    
    It took then 5 minutes on google to find dozens of articles that verified what the GP had said about an increased PR interval being indicative of Myocarditis and greatly increased risk of heart failure, and possible future need for a pacemaker.
    
    I even researched what portable home ECG monitors were available for affected people.
    
    The PR interval:
    
    The PR interval represents the time between atrial depolarization and ventricular depolarization. Abnormalities in the timing of the PR segment can indicate pathology.
    
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK551635/
    
    I was sharing this data with a new found friend at the start of 2023, who informed me that in NZ, a significant number of pilots in the company he worked for, had been stood down, because they were no longer able to pass their annual medicals, of which heart health, and particularly the PR interval is a significant parameter.
    
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    January 15, 2025 9:51am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Years ago(at leat 20) at my annual aircrew medical the Doctor continually recommended/prescribed low dose aspirin to help reduce “”heart”” problems. Now 79 no heart problems.
    
    I continually ignored him. Until one day he said. No need for the aspirins any more. Recent research says they make no difference.
    
    As I have said before, many times. There is always research to support both/many sides of any topic.
    
    Especially with health! Make your own decisions based on your individual situation.
    
    Bene has made his decision based on his individual situation. Good on him
    
    But he should not be denigrating others for making their individual choices, IMHO.
    
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    January 15, 2025 3:38pm
- imalwaysright
  
  I agree with freedom of speech but you have become analogous to the person who yells “Fire” in a crowded theatre.
  
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  January 15, 2025 8:32am
- newview
  
  Same old ones down ticking because they don’t want to hear it Ben. Why wouldn’t you believe the Heart foundation research. Beats me.
  
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  January 15, 2025 8:35am
  - Matt Long
    
    The Heart foundation has pushed a high sugar and high processed carb and vegetable oil diet that has resulted in an obesity, diabetic and liver disease epidemic.
    There are allegations they have been bought by big pharma and companies like Coca-cola, I have no idea if that’s true, but the other results speak for themselves.
    
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    January 15, 2025 10:02am
- Handyman
  
  Benedict, I strongly support you in your choice. You have weighed the risks and made a call based on your health profile.
  
  You are also mature enough to say your situation does not apply to everyone else, because other people’s risk profile will differ.
  
  This sums up my view on the subject:
  Covid should no longer be treated as a population health issue. Applying lockdowns and basing spread control on a vaccine that does not prevent infection is no way to manage covid.
  Instead, covid should be treated like any other disease on an individual basis with advice from your doctor. In other words, the tag line “Ask your doctor if covid vaccination is right for you” should have been on every covid ad during the lockdowns.
  
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  January 15, 2025 9:00am
  - Sacha
    
    Unfortunately, the doctors didn’t have the full facts on the vaccines, so how could they possibly know if it “was right for you?”
    They accepted the manufacturer’s sales promotions & put the Hippocratic oath to one side.
    For the layperson, it is a case of ‘buyer beware’ !
    
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    January 15, 2025 9:54am
    - Ghost
      
      Umm, both my gp and I looked into the vaccine an came to the conclusion I shouldn’t get it. Guess some doctors know their job.
      
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      January 15, 2025 10:10am
      - kevn
        
        Ghost… Lucky you didn’t have to get jabbed to keep your job.
        Not so easy for some docs.
        https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/news/dr-sam-bailey-makes-shock-revelations-in-medical-council-legal-battle/
        
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        January 15, 2025 11:10am
    - JackRabbit
      
      They accepted the manufacturer’s sales promotions & put the Hippocratic oath to one side.
      
      Sacha,
      
      This phenomenon, of believing the marketing or product hype, is not limited to the health field. It happens in technology, food, etc.
      
      A professional analyst never takes for granted what they are told, especially if there is risk attached. They always do the background work to understand the product, and how it works, or engage professional analysts. Simply reading the label or brochure, or taking the word of an “expert”, and using it is the sign of an amateur.
      
      A founding principle in science is that if someone cannot put a complex subject into layman’s terms, that someone is lost in the detail, and doesn’t understand. They have facts and figures – knowledge, but they do not understand.
      
      A second principle is that if they cannot provide or elucidate the underlying principles, they do not have an understanding. Science is under pinned by principles.
      
      March 10th 2020 when Tedros from WHO sent fear throughout the world about Covid being a unstoppable super virus, he made several statements that were 180° from established science and principles. He lied. And it was as obvious as hell.
      
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      January 15, 2025 12:26pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Except that any Doctor who mentioned the possible risks of the Covid jab faced losing their job.
    
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    January 15, 2025 10:05am
    - cmm
      
      Yup, many were deregistered etc. Those that were supportive of taking a deeper look (eg. Ghost’s experience above) kept a low profile.
      
      One of the issues is that GPs have to deal with a thousand different diseases. Most are not trained in interpreting literature (eg. a solid understanding of statistics). Therefore most just have to trust what they are told and then pass than on to us health consumers.
      
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      January 15, 2025 10:22am
      - JackRabbit
        
        If a GP recommends a medication to me or family, I ask the following:
        
        [1] What articles were you given that back up the advice you were given to dispense?
        Usually PDFs.
        
        [2] Have you read the articles?
        In most cases no, and in some cases they reply that “it was above their head” and would need more time to study it than their job allows.
        
        [3] I ask for the PDF to be sent to me, so I can read and evaluate it, so I can make a decision. In some cases, they ask for my findings so they can be more informed, and I share it with them.
        
        [4] In other cases I have researched the medication or treatment and come back with articles and insights they didn’t know existed, and the knowledge I forwarded helped them in their job.
        
        That is what any professional analyst does. Being a true analyst is not a part time job, or something you do only at work, only in your own vocation.
        
        Being an analyst is a blessing and a curse. You can’t turn off logic, analytics, awareness, seeing connections or cause and effect.
        
        Or people can bury their heads in the sand, and do what they are told.
        
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        January 15, 2025 12:41pm
- wsk12345
  
  Now share the study comparing clotting in those who are vaxxed and those who are not. Obviously those who are vaxxed barely get covid so the clots will overwhelmingly be in the unvaxxed. But no the study has not been done and it won’t be.
  
  Personal experience – I have not heard of a single unvaxxed person with clotting issues post covid, and I know quite a few unvaxxed (maybe 30% of my friends/family). I personally know two who got pulmonary clots starting right after the vax (before they got covid – which ofc they did). One has now had 4 clots as a very fit, previously healthy 50 year old.
  
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  January 15, 2025 9:20am
- JackRabbit
  
  It is fascinating that for some folk, COVID vaccines have become synonymous with the risk of blood clots and disorders of the blood vessels.
  
  That is because that is what is actually happening. If there is a correlation between getting vaccinated with the mRNA and a massive increase in people with blood clots, then yes, it becomes synonymous. You have picked the right word.
  
  Of course, this is nonsense, or at least wildly exaggerated.
  
  Specifics please.
  
  What has caused an increase in blood vessel diseases, including blood clots, is COVID itself..
  
  No. You are inverting the truth. The blood clotting started with the mRNA Covid 19 vaccine. Pre Covid mRNA, instances of patients presenting to GPs with Myocarditis, was rare. And certainly not in young people. I know something about Myocarditis, as my father died from it, and when a family member developed Myocarditis after the vaccines, it was of huge concern.
  
  So post vaccine, some GPs (not all), encountered and epidemic in vaccinated people. Some GPs will say they saw none, because they are too shit scared to tell the truth. What a GP tells someone who has drunk the Koolaid, and what they tell someone who has the truth is very different. Anyone that risks losing the right to work in their profession because of a comment to the wrong person, generally keeps their mouth shut. Think back to Germany. One ‘wrong’ conversation and you were shot.
  
  Yes, the COVID vaccines can cause blood clots. However the risk is thousands of times less than the risk of deadly blood clots from COVID itself.
  
  Specifics please. Together with your supporting principles, logic, and understanding.
  
  How many people had blot clots in 2020? None. The hospitals were empty.
  
  This is not medical advice. For that see your doctor.
  
  I did. I saw my GP. I talked to other GPs and specialists IN CONFIDENCE, so that they knew without a shadow of a doubt, that they were safe and not at risk. And they confirmed everything I have been posting, and also spoke of the extreme pressure from the system to conform to the narrative.
  
  The vaccine IS Covid and long Covid.
  
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  January 15, 2025 9:23am
- Inandout
  
  BY, brave chap you are and more power to your arm, however I did not go beyond the ‘compulsory’ two jabs. Once I learned that over a thousand health related people were exempt I began to question Jacinda’s ethics, What did those exempted ones know? I suspect my previous doctor was one of those exempted because he was guarded in his opinions on the jab.
  
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  January 15, 2025 10:24am
  - Ghost
    
    The exemptions were so they could keep working while going through the process of being vaccinated. They got rid of staff who refused it down here
    
    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/new-zealands-11000-vaccine-exempt-were-health-staff-not-elites-2024-01-12/
    
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    January 15, 2025 10:48am
    - JackRabbit
      
      The exemptions were so they could keep working while going through the process of being vaccinated.
      
      Specifics please, as this is untrue. Same as in Education.
      
      Apart from management, a lot of exemptions were for contractors / contracting firms / contracted doctors, that provided critical systems and services to the health system, and hospitals.
      
      They are professionals and could think for themselves. They refused the vaccine point blank, because they had leverage. i.e. Things would stop working. I know this because I talked with a high profile contractor who is at the top of his game inn both public and private practice and highly respected.
      
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      January 15, 2025 12:13pm
    - Inandout
      
      Ghost, fact check seems the go to now but as the old saying goes ‘who checks the checkers’?
      
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      January 15, 2025 12:25pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Ben – your study doesn’t support your conclusions. You have really become very irrational on the benefits of covid mRNA treatments. We are now in 2025 with a completely different Covid-19 variant than in 2020/2021 – the timeframe most of the data in this study is based on.
  
  This study was done on the first wave of Covid-19. Genome testing in NZ in August 2024 showed at all strains here are now from the Omicron mutation.
  
  Your study states clearly “There have been some anecdotal reports that clot-related complications may be less common in people with Covid-19 caused by more recent variants (such as Omicron), but there is a need for more research in this area before we can be sure.”
  
  So who is spouting nonsense and wildly exaggerating their position?
  
  As for the trustworthiness of the BHF – please note that they fund research in collaboration with Big Pharma. So how independent are they really? eg “To achieve its mission, the BHF funds academic-led projects that involve pharma, where there is clear potential for patient benefit. For example, The Heart Protection Study, led by the University of Oxford, was jointly funded by the BHF, Medical Research Council, Merck and Roche Vitamins Ltd.”
  https://pf-media.co.uk/in-depth/opposites-attract-pharma-the-third-sector/
  
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  January 15, 2025 1:32pm
- Groggy
  
  Poking the Bear Benedict?
  
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  January 15, 2025 2:14pm
Morgan H

Green’s polling for 2024:
Highest Point – 15.5 (Roy Morgan – Late January) (Roy Morgan – February)
Median – 12.25
Average – 11.66
Lowest Point – 8.3 (Taxpayer’s Union – Curia – December)

Act’s polling for 2024:
Highest Point – 13.7 (Taxpayer’s Union – Curia – February)
Median – 9
Average – 8.74
Lowest Point – 7 (Talbot Mills – February) (Talbot Mills – April) (1 News-Verian – April) (1 News-Verian – June) (1 News-Verian – August)
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January 15, 2025 8:08am
- Damocles11
  
  Scary isn’t it. Shows what a horrid Left wing backwater this place has become. Also demonstrates how depressingly meek and mild our (purported) Right is, shuffling along behind the big-spending centre-Left mob in blue while ACT are portrayed as somehow ‘extreme’.
  Let me know when ACT MP’s start shoplifting or crossing the floor and screaming in other MP’s faces. I’ve only ever known them to act professionally and with the deployment of calm logic. But maybe they should start ‘acting the goat’, maybe there are votes in it.
  
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  January 15, 2025 8:43am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Not really, Morgan is the only polled showing greens high, they always do, none of thdd we bother polls have shown they, Greens are winning, and the gain is by young dead beats going to TPM
    
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    January 15, 2025 9:57am
    - Damocles11
      
      Comparing all the metrics given, the aggregate of all these various polls have the mad Greens polling higher than ACT.
      That was the thrust of my post, to point out the travesty of this situation and how essentially Left wing the country now is.
      
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      January 15, 2025 10:50am
      - Ghost
        
        People don’t realize that. They fantasize that if national went to the right they’d get a lot of votes. All that would happen is the left would get in. Our elections are won and lost in middle. Even David Seymour describes himself as an old fashion lefty
        
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        January 15, 2025 10:58am
      - David Garrett
        
        Ghost: Our elections are won and lost in middle
        
        Although some try and claim otherwise, that remains the case just as it was under FPP. Rather to the surprise of some of my rightie friends, I am a supporter of MMP. Everyone seems to forget that without it, even if he had won Epsom – which is highly doubtful if the deal with the Nats had not been done – Rodney Hide would have been a lone voice in the wilderness in 2008-11 instead of having five MP’s who arguably got a thing or two done.
        
        The looney Greens are sadly the price we pay for a proper democracy, in which 10% or more of the electorate actually have representation.
        
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        January 15, 2025 11:24am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Yes, I understand that, and this is exactly why Nats must court the centre, MMP dictates that, people on here thinking they should go hard right would be the end, they would lose the centre, they would lose swing voters, yes they would claim right voters, but those votes would come from Act
        
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        January 15, 2025 12:08pm
      - Morgan H
        
        David: The looney Greens are sadly the price we pay for a proper democracy, in which 10% or more of the electorate actually have representation.
        
        I completely agree with you. I feel people don’t realize how great MMP is. I’d rather us make improvements to MMP instead of return back to FPP. Remove the Maori seats and lower the 5% threshold to 4%.
        
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        January 15, 2025 1:01pm
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        If NZ is now “essentially left-wing”, why is our income tax rate one of the lowest in the OECD? https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/personal-income-tax-rate.
        What is undoubtedly true, however, is that the younger half of the population is very woke, as a result of institutional capture by the cultural left. That in turn reflects the previous National government’s lack of interest in fighting the culture war. Ain’t it strange – you let the cultural left take over the country’s education system and media, and you end up with a lot of woke-minded young people in your country.
        
        Replying here to Ghost as well (no “reply” option available above): that’s precisely the kind of passive attitude that’s got us into our present mess. The Nats have been content to passively go along with trends, rather than trying to shape the future by fighting the woke cancer and reforming our institutions.
        
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        January 15, 2025 1:02pm
  - Morgan H
    
    In 2023, Act’s highest polling number was 18 (Roy Morgan – August), while Green’s highest polling was 15 (Roy Morgan – September). Act’s support crumbled after that August poll. I don’t think his Guy Fawkes joke cost him many votes, but it may have played a role. I think it was more a combination of his attacks on Winston Peters and his comments about the possibly blocking a budget from passing.
    
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    January 15, 2025 10:57am
  - Steve Otto N Shore
    
    “Acting the goat.” A term my Pop used quite often.
    “Don’t act the goat with me!”
    
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    January 15, 2025 11:03am
- artemisia
  
  In western democracies there is a clear trend away from identity politics and woke. Not hugely obvious here, though Maori, some of them anyway, are not doing themselves any favours.
  
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  January 15, 2025 9:38am
cmm

A study by University of Otago researchers makes another water-is-wet, grass-is-green finding.

While there has been a noteable increase in rural, Pacific and Maori students in the health programmes, the majority are from more sociology-economically privileged backgrounds.

Wow. So it would seem they think there has not been enough tilting of the playing field.

Of course we should expect this. Children raised in a successful, high income household with graduate parents are far more likely to take education seriously and seek out careers.

Those from blue collar backgrounds are far more likely to be mocked for “acting white” if they spend time on their studies rather than causing trouble.

Intelligence/aptitude is also hereditary. It might not be fair, but that’s biology for you.

https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/360547876/health-students-otago-university-still-mostly-privileged-backgrounds
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January 15, 2025 8:15am
- Michael Sommerville
  
  They are not from privileged backgrounds. They are from stable and financially well off families. Being financially well off is not a privilege (like royalty), it is achieved through hard work and effort.
  
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  January 15, 2025 8:27am
  - Ian Boag
    
    …achieved through hard work and effort
    
    Or a fortuitous choice of already wealthy parents 🙂
    
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    January 15, 2025 8:40am
    - redeye
      
      On average, family wealth tends to dissipate over three to four generations. ie the often used “from shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations”.
      Besides the alternative is to discourage parents from working to provide a for their family. Wouldn’t that harm society as a whole?
      
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      January 15, 2025 8:52am
      - Cassandra
        
        Clogs to clogs was the orginal.
        
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        January 15, 2025 10:03am
    - wsk12345
      
      Or parents who just give a shit.
      
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      January 15, 2025 9:22am
    - David Garrett
      
      Ian B: A somewhat grudging uptick from me for that comment. Inherited wealth is most definitely “a thing” – and sadly that is only going to become more so, now that residential property is largely out of the reach of low income people.
      
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      January 15, 2025 9:31am
      - artemisia
        
        “… residential property is largely out of the reach of low income people…”
        
        I disagree with ‘largely’. 5 to 10 years of DINK, Kiwisaver and watching spending will get many of those households into a modest first home. Start with an apartment, a unit or a do up in the burbs, build equity (and skills) and trade up later.
        
        Households without a plan, not so much. T’was ever thus.
        
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        January 15, 2025 9:48am
      - pdm
        
        Well said Arty.
        
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        January 15, 2025 11:21am
      - Anthony Melchett
        
        Artemisia
        
        “… 5 to 10 years of DINK, Kiwisaver and watching spending will get many of those households into a modest first home. Start with an apartment, a unit or a do up in the burbs, build equity (and skills) and trade up later.”
        
        You mean like how it has always been?
        
        3 times in my life I have lived on budgets that had $10-20 left over after paying all necessities. I plastered, painted, gardened, built fences and decks in the weekend (all stuff I know nothing about) using recycled timber and all sorts of other bargains i hunted forand have gone from a tiny 2 bed run down unit to a mortgage free 200 sqm place in 20 years.
        
        But I want to buy a million dollar house now…
        
        You can’t, for the same reasons I couldn’t buy a 500k place 20 years ago. It’s called a ladder for a reason.
        
        The issue know is people don’t want to do the work or learn new skills to be able to achieve a lot with little.
        
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        January 15, 2025 2:23pm
      - Local Miller
        
        I don’t agree that residential property is largely out of the reach of low income people. Of my 4 children and their partners, 3 of them have been able to buy their own houses in the past 6 years, 2 in the past 6 months. I would consider all of them “low income people”. Their ages range from 27 to 36, and none of them have jobs that pay fantastic salaries.
        In every case they have been able to do this through living frugally, saving and buying wisely.
        
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        January 15, 2025 3:58pm
  - cmm
    
    These days it seems that anyone not born to a single mother and a deadbeat dad is “privileged”.
    
    I also suspect that the majority of Maori and Pasifika students are also from “privileged” backgrounds (ie. two professional parents, food on the table, no drugs etc).
    
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    January 15, 2025 8:43am
    - Ian Boag
      
      I also suspect that the majority of Maori and Pasifika students …
      
      Based on what information? Share it perhaps ? 🙂
      
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      January 15, 2025 8:47am
      - gravedodger
        
        Sometimes Ian a person can have an informed opinion from just being. An open mind, socialising, searching for content can all add up to forming that opinion, not some random link to one other opinion.
        
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        January 15, 2025 9:04am
      - Ian Boag
        
        @dodger
        
        also known as “pulling it out of your …. ” 🙂
        
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        January 15, 2025 9:44am
      - Skippytony
        
        I have been involved for some years in efforts to improve retention and achievement outcomes in a tertiary context. A significant focus area is analysing historical outcomes to try and predict future performance. Say, for example, we can see relatively poor results for Maori students in an on-line programme. Thats facts, not opinions. We then seek to do several things, first understand what factors contribute to these outcomes. We then develop and test hypothesis about changes to the programme, the environment, support resources etc and look to see what changes had impacts on retention performance. In parallel there is a whole field of study to try and predict which students are at risk of non completion both at point of application / entry and based on observable behaviours within the programme. AI is starting to contribute with these predictive analytics. These “at risk” conditions inform what levers are used to try and support the learner journey. This is going right through to using AI and Adaptive Learning techniques to detect and remediate knowledge gaps as the student progresses.
        This is an area of study that seems to show great potential to improve outcomes for many learners. There is a certain amount of legacy phrenology thinking in the sector that has to be tested, worked through and evaluated for validity. Privacy considerations, for example make it difficult to really analyse and incorporate prior life experiences into the predictive models. In our orbit, for example, work is just starting on exploring how we can sensibly (ethically, morally) test incorporating the vast store of knowledge accumulated during secondary years into the tertiary predictive models.
        My point is this sort of abstracts up to opinions but there is a lot going on under the surface.
        
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        January 15, 2025 10:02am
      - Yabster
        
        also known as “pulling it out of your …. ”
        
        Ironic statement of the year…
        
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        January 15, 2025 11:35am
      - Anthony Melchett
        
        The amount of new rangers driving around with Maori signwriting is a bit of a giveaway
        
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        January 15, 2025 2:27pm
    - David Garrett
      
      cmm: I must disagree with you there regarding PI families. As you know, I have close roots to the Tongan community in NZ, and in Tonga itself.
      
      A great many PI kids who go on to tertiary study and professional jobs have parents that do menial jobs in some factory – often with both parents working, which is very much not the traditional Tongan way, where mum is the homemaker, and Dad earns the money.
      
      The major difference with Maori of course is that PI parents – mostly – highly value education, and to have sons or daughters succeeding is very much a matter of pride. No Tongan parent I know would deride their studious children for “acting white”, as is sadly common among Maori.
      
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      January 15, 2025 9:35am
      - Sacha
        
        When my children were young – gosh, about 55 years ago -how time flies – we lived in Ellerslie and I was involved in the local Play Centre. We had Tongan families enrolled who had come to New Zealand largely because they want their children to have a good education. The innocent that I was (country kid/boarding school) knew nothing about educational opportunities and was mightily impressed at the cultural upheaval of moving to New Zealand. Those kids turned up at Play Centre polished and ready to learn how to become Good Little Students.
        We didn’t have any Maori kids, although we visited the local marae.
        
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        January 15, 2025 10:07am
      - cmm
        
        DG: Thank you for the clarification.
        
        There is certainly a cultural element to this. Some cultures value education no matter their station in life.
        
        Other examples of cultures that value education are Indians and most Asians.
        
        The Indian family that runs the hole-in-the-wall curry place I frequent are an example. They are hard working, industrious folk. Mr and Mrs have little education and struggle to string together an English sentence but they really encouraged their son and daughter to strive for good education and careers. The daughter is now a nurse – the first in the family to get a serious qualification.
        
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        January 15, 2025 11:19am
      - slijmbal
        
        @David G
        
        have to agree – my rather large extended catholic family came out of one of sh#####st parts of Liverpool. All the parents left school at 14 or 15 and were typically factory workers but the parents all valued education and looking after their kids.
        
        End results their offspring all ended up as accountants, doctors etc. Even had a couple go to Oxbridge and one represented UK at the Olympics. As far as I am aware only one divorce out of the lot.
        
        The attitude of the parents is incredibly important.
        
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        January 15, 2025 11:30am
- Dave
  
  Outside the study’s scope, but still relevant, where would these specially admitted students have gone without the inducements to enter medicine? What is the net benefit to NZ of more Maori doctors compared to other professions and careers the same students might have chosen instead? Does anyone know?
  
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  January 15, 2025 8:45am
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    The claim has been made that Maori/PI doctors can engage wholly with their culture and with the educational advantage of quota preferences will after qualifying then be available to work with those cultures remote communities.
    
    Evidence given of both claims real & practical success: zero
    
    “Some ideas are so stupid that only academics believe them” George Orwell
    
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    January 15, 2025 9:50am
  - pdm
    
    Any Doctors are good.
    
    Our GP is retiring in the next couple of years or so. We will need a new Doctor then and don’t care if he is Maori or not.
    
    As long as he doesn’t karakia every time we go.
    
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    January 15, 2025 9:52am
    - MCōs
      
      ‘Any doctors are good’
      Not necessarily
      I had covid a couple of years ago and the symptoms lingered on for a few months and I lost a lot of weight. My very experienced GP attributed it to long covid.
      He went off for a few weeks leave so I saw another GP in the clinic who immediately, and correctly, suspected cancer.
      There were a number of other symptoms which in hindsight were text book for the cancer I had.
      Personally I think the first GP made a slip up.
      How exact does the patient have the right for the GP to be?
      
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      January 15, 2025 3:32pm
      - Ghost
        
        Agree, there are a few doctors at my gp’s practise i avoid if he is away.
        
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        January 15, 2025 3:54pm
  - Paulus
    
    We do not know how many special people actually finish their Medical degree let alone how many drop out at the first year end.
    Even more so now that First Year taxpayer help is switched to sucessful end of degree, say end of basic fourth year as most would have to go further to get a real medical job.
    
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    January 15, 2025 1:26pm
BarryB

There were some references to a submission by Turitei, Lady Moxon in yesterdays debate. Her ramble covered the usual suspects
that Maori submissions often do including how unfair the Government is to maori and how things are tough for maori.

She is the wife of retired Archbishop David Moxon (Anglican). Turitei Moxon is of Maori decent.

Anglican clergy get subsidised attendance fees at Anglican schools – so their son who had attended Oxford probably went through private
Anglican Schools (Probably both primary and secondary) at reduced or no fees. As well as one of the parents are maori there would have been available
grants from numerous sources. I would expect that these would be applicable for university studies…………
How could someone of Maori decent whose children probably received the best school and university education at minimal or zero cost possibly rant on about how
Maori are on the hind tit.

I have a friend (Pakeha) who is married to a Maori. They changed their home property to ‘Freehold Maori’ land. Now this sort
of ownership means: 1. You dont have to comply with some, if not most, local government rules (eg: you can build almost unlimited
numbers of houses on the property). 2. You get loans from what I call “Maori Affairs Dept (I know its called some other name these days) which
are paid back on the never – never. 3. You get grants that do not need to be paid back, 4. and more benefits.
I said to him “But Fred- its a scam” he replied “I know it is – but they are the rules”.
The Moxon couple could possibly take advantage of this type of regulation – unless they are living in a Maori Dept supplied house or an Iwi supplied house
or a Church supplied house. The almost certainly lived in a church supplied house when he was an active clergy member.

The Anglican Church in New Zealand is rather short of money these days. It seems to me that moves in recent times show a strong move by them
towards Maoridom. There is more maori culture and language entering into the day to day activity of the Anglican community. All I can think
is that one needs to “Follow the Money” because for a cash strapped outfit like the Anglican Church the best target for money is Maoridom –
thats where all the community money is going – as we see every day with some way-out cash distribution to some maori outfit.

And Anglican clergy are strongly involved in the recent move to name the Treaty of Waitangi as a “Holy Covenant”. Retired clergy have more time
available to promote the Treaty as a 4 Article treaty. The church has been running in-home sessions promoting the 4 articles treaty version along with a whole raft
of thoughts and ideas that have little or nothing to do with the treaty. Its been a ‘below the horizon’ activity designed to hide the subversive
nature of the programme. In the Waikato retired clergy have been heavily involved in these promotional sessions – many in parishioners homes – so no publicity or
record of the discussion.
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January 15, 2025 8:16am
- sungsamning
  
  That’s reason #958 why I attend an evangelical church. Minimal Maori wonderfulness.
  
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  January 15, 2025 8:54am
- pdm
  
  BB the Anglican Church has been strong with Maori for a long, long time
  
  The Minister at my parents wedding in Porangahau in March 1945 was a Maori Vicar and there has been a Maori Anglican Church and Cemetary there for years – possibly from the start of the village.
  
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  January 15, 2025 9:02am
  - Groggy
    
    Over 200 years, since 1814 when Samuel Marsden began proselytising among the Māori
    
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    January 15, 2025 3:28pm
Yvette

• The Treaty Principles Bill received over 300,000 submissions, an unprecedented number.
• Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has promised to “spike” and “kill” the bill after public submissions are considered.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360547285/treaty-principles-bill-smashes-submissions-record

“Ponder and deliberate before you make a move” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
“Don’t shovel the walk before it stops snowing” ― Phyllis Diller
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January 15, 2025 8:20am
- pdm
  
  Yvette 300 000 plus was at the first closing.
  
  The Tamihere/Maori Party rort will have driven that even higher. The question now is – how many of those were legitimate?
  
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  January 15, 2025 9:06am
  - RoboRob
    
    There appears to be an assumption that the bulk of submissions will be in favour of the bill or modified versions of it. With TPMs activities I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a large number of uninformed ‘against becuase its racist’ type of submission.
    
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    January 15, 2025 11:26am
    - Paulus
      
      Outside the Select Committee paper submissions which are, overwhelming automatically against the Bill, many more ordinary people would favour some serious move as to what the bill actually says, and not the knockers and the anti pro Maori media.
      I wonder how many anti submissions were mechanically produced ?
      
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      January 15, 2025 1:31pm
  - zulumonster
    
    Select Committee’s (or more likely backroom underlings) have a history of ignoring form submissions, or counting them as a single submission.
    It is a tactic the likes of the Free Speech Union and Taxpayers Union have encountered on occassions, effectively minimising the extent of support (or otherwise) for a particular Bill. I would be (pleasantly) surprised if the same approach is taken in regards to submissions for this Bill.
    
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    January 15, 2025 12:09pm
- MCōs
  
  In my opinion as a complete unknown who doesn’t have to bear any responsibility if I was PM in waiting I would have told the Act Party during coalition negotiations to forget about the Treaty Principles Bill and move on to the next item.
  None of this wishy washy, neither for nor against, half pie, carry on.
  
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  January 15, 2025 9:09am
  - JackRabbit
    
    I couldn’t agree more.
    
    Maori ceded Sovereignty.
    
    Luxon said it, but he didn’t say loud enough, or often enough. Perhaps he should challenge TPM for spreading disinformation. NZF has been a lone voice in Parliament on that one.
    
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    January 15, 2025 9:57am
    - slightlyrighty
      
      Maori not only ceded sovereignty in 1840, but reaffirmed that with the Kohimarara conference in 1860, where at least 115 chiefs unanimously voted in favour of a motion that Queen Victoria was the recognised sovereign.
      
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      January 15, 2025 2:05pm
  - Yvette
    
    MCōs, in Devil’s Advocacy, may I ask why not apply your theorem – None of this wishy washy, neither for nor against, half pie, carry on – to the Treaty itself, which is what ACT intends, even if some of the detail is perhaps astray?
    
    If the late Kiingi Tuheitia Pōtatau Te Wherowhero VII stated so clearly about a year ago less five days “There’s no principles, the Treaty is written. That’s it” why are the so-called principles seemingly entrenched in so much – from television programming to pharmacy services – even although the latter may be needed after viewing the former?
    
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    January 15, 2025 10:12am
    - pdm
      
      I included what the Late Maori King said in my submission in support of the bill
      
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      January 15, 2025 11:26am
  - Matt Long
    
    Getting a reasonable bill to first reading then unreasonably knobbled by National is manna from heaven for Act and a gift of votes from National. (It’s also great for the Maori party as they can cream low knowledge liberal votes.)
    I wonder if National’s strategists are from the WEF.
    
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    January 15, 2025 10:13am
- RoboRob
  
  Luxon, in an attempt to appease everyone, has made a political hash of this whole process.
  
  From the start he only needed to say something like, ‘This is an Act initiative as part of their coalition agreement. National will follow the democratic process and look at the bill and submissions before taking a stance on the bill’. A smart poli would have waited to test the waters before taking a position.
  
  Instead he tried to appease the left and Maori by annoucing he would vote it down regardless of the bill or submissions. Remeber he announced his possition on the bill BEFORE it had even been written.
  
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  January 15, 2025 11:30am
  - MCōs
    
    His job was to form a coalition involving Act and Winston. That is half of everyone
    
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    January 15, 2025 12:11pm
    - RoboRob
      
      Yup. Part of forming the coalition was allowing ACTs treaty principals bill. Do you really think Seymour or Winston insisted that Luxon veto the bill in advance? Seems to me that was a National party choice.
      
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      January 15, 2025 1:21pm
  - Yvette
    
    I have several times asked if anyone has seen any sensible explanation why Luxon has so restricted his own options (and those of National) regarding a bill he promised to eliminate before it was even written, as you say RoboRob.
    I now assume there is no answer to that question for Luxon without being self-destructively embarrassing.
    
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    January 15, 2025 12:16pm
    - RoboRob
      
      Yeah, there was no need to pen himself in like this unless ofcourse he really does believe in the existing treaty principals process.
      
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      January 15, 2025 1:20pm
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      The explanation is straightforward.
      
      ACT wanted a debate on the bill even though it has no chance of passing, because they thought they would get more votes in the next election by doing that.
      
      National agreed to this, because they preferred it to real policy concessions they would otherwise have to accept in exchange for ACT’s support in forming a government.
      
      National early on ruled out voting for it at the second reading, because they thought they would get more votes in the next election by doing that.
      
      In my opinion, all of these are likely true, and are sufficient to explain what is happening.
      
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      January 15, 2025 3:28pm
pdm

Chuck how is that petition you referred us to a couple of days ago going?
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January 15, 2025 8:25am
- Chuck Bird
  
  It has slowed down. 559 signatures. I have tried to get a couple of other groups to help.
  
  Thanks for asking.
  
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  January 15, 2025 8:28am
  - pdm
    
    Do you think this guy might help?
    https://nominister.wordpress.com/2025/01/14/geoff-neal-is-an-impressive-advocate-for-all-new-zealanders/
    
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    January 15, 2025 9:57am
Skippytony

General question for the hive…. Doing some late night tictock scrolling I came across a Maori chap sharing his views on the world. There is a bit of this going round that’s to ACTs bill.
So, this dudes views include the idea that only first people should get to make decisions about “the land” and that the rest of us should basically fuck off back to where we came from and make decisions about the land there.
For example
https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS69k5Krs/

The libertarian in me says “free speech, move on” but when you apply the “reverse it” test I’m quite sure that if I was on tt putting out the diametrically opposing view that in short order I would be getting visits from someone making threatening noises.

So, what’s the view? Experience tells me it’s a waste of time directly engaging. Ignore, which is my default position or complain? Thoughts?
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January 15, 2025 8:30am
- cmm
  
  Division and such increases when people become financially stressed.
  
  If we see a greater down turn in the economy, more job losses etc then we can expect conflict to increase.
  
  There is huge money to be made in race baiting, so it will flourish.
  
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  January 15, 2025 8:48am
- RightNow
  
  I recommend you ignore, but plan your exit to a nice warm country where your money goes further and whitey gets more love.
  
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  January 15, 2025 8:58am
  - 7kiwi11
    
    Well that rules out going back to the Motherland (aka Great Britain) in all 3 instances!
    
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    January 15, 2025 9:39am
  - Skippytony
    
    Several years ago my family had a long conversation about exactly this question. We agreed that there were certain triggers that would cause us to be, um, early reactors. Several of us having lived and worked in other countries and have seen the signs. So we got down to things like moves by the government to restrict the flow of capital. Implementation of taxes on accumulation of capital. Successful steps to undermine ownership of property eg Iwi being able to put restrictive covenants on private property or force acquisition, or wholesale moves to entrench discrimination at the legislative or policy level such as mandating a certain percentage of say police roles must go to group such and such.
    We review these triggers every year. The more proactive (and able) have already started trying to spread the risk and giving ourselves options we can activate at short notice. Our family includes professional people, business owners and investors. There is a limit to how much we will allow ourselves to be harvested.
    
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    January 15, 2025 10:22am
- lifesgood
  
  So when are the Maori going to F..k off to the Cook Islands?
  
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  January 15, 2025 9:05am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Tahiti.
    
    The Cook Islanders started arriving here in 500AD. The Easter Island lot about 2000 years ago. And many before them.
    
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    January 15, 2025 11:38am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Evidence to back up that claim?
      
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      January 15, 2025 12:45pm
      - Paulus
        
        Yes, I have what is consider a definitive detailed long term immigration Pacific Map but cannot reproduce it here.
        
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        January 15, 2025 1:36pm
- Yabster
  
  ignore just a clueless [Mod – deleted] with a huge chip on his shoulder- but if you turn that post around can you imagine the outcry from media, race relation commissioner, iwi, little Willie etc etc…
  
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  January 15, 2025 9:05am
- kowtow
  
  I’m sure I read Michael Bassett , historian , note that under maori way of the world that conquest is very much a legitimate method to establish your rights over land etc
  
  He said they need to be careful what they wish for .
  
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  January 15, 2025 9:25am
- muzled
  
  tiktok – giving every fool a platform.
  
  Long may it live for people like that clown.
  
  Don’t you love that he’s wearing a Dallas Cowboys hat.
  
  Dallas and Cowboys, and The Dallas Cowboys.
  
  Surely those things are the epitome of white colonialists he so despises…
  
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  January 15, 2025 9:49am
- JackRabbit
  
  So, this dudes views include the idea that only first people should get to make decisions about “the land” and that the rest of us should basically fuck off back to where we came from and make decisions about the land there.
  
  So that chap should start the ball rolling, by insisting that the 1200 AD Maori should also fuck off back to Tahiti, and let the Moriori, Waitaha, Celts, Peruvians, Chinese, Pygmies, and ancestors of all those that arrived here over the last 30,000-60,000 years ago have their say.
  
  Maori oral history from multiple Maori tribes record the existence of races here before them.
  
  Oral history that was also translated and transcribed into book in the 1800s, which have been removed from public access.
  
  Oral history that is still alive in some tribes today, and still records the presence of people here 2000 – 5000+ years ago.
  
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  January 15, 2025 10:02am
  - NothingLeft
    
    These are just fairy stories. There’s no solid evidence for any pre-Maori inhabitants of NZ.
    
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    January 15, 2025 3:06pm
- PurplePen
  
  What’s that saying … if you argue with a fool, then there’s two fools arguing.
  
  Don’t give them any attention or clicks. Most NZers I like to think are sane, pragmatic people and will see it for what it is.
  
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  January 15, 2025 11:03am
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  Well sorry dude, I don’t have a land that I left. Neither did my parents or my Mother’s Father.
  My Father’s Father came from South Africa.
  So where should I go?
  
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  January 15, 2025 11:25am
- Haast
  
  That’s the ‘Kohanga Reo generation’ for you, forever destined to be disappointed and helpless, waiting for mana from heaven when all the horrible colonists leave and the land returnes to them. The sunglasses will have to go back to China too.
  
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  January 15, 2025 1:52pm
Anthony Melchett

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/holiday-breakfast/opinion/tim-beveridge-could-this-finally-be-a-ceasefire/

What the… did someone in the media just write a piece that supports Israel and is anti hamas/Palestine?

That would be the first thing I have seen published that doesn’t make Palestine out to be the good guys.

What’s next, an article showing that all 12 public servants that have lost their jobs weren’t actually doing anything and saving taxpayer money is a good thing…
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January 15, 2025 8:31am
- Paulus
  
  I listened to Beveridge this morning and could not believe what was being said in defence of Israel and the position accepted that Hamas will never stop what they and other mental ignorami are doing to the total destruction of Israel.
  They will never free, whatever live or dead hostages they have taken as they would believe that weakens their total position.
  To actually hear this was amazing as I could not fault what was said.
  
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  January 15, 2025 10:46am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvkw8Kgg9_I
Germany’s AfD Vows Mass Deportations.
The AfD guy isn’t wrong. It’s 80 years since the war ended. We really need to stop basing all of our moral and political thinking around “What will stop the Austrian painter coming back?”
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January 15, 2025 8:41am
- 7kiwi11
  
  C’mon, you have to admit if any country is going to organise a mass exit of millions of people you think of Germany, due to their track record.
  
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  January 15, 2025 9:43am
  - Matt Long
    
    Or Russia.
    
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    January 15, 2025 10:15am
  - PurplePen
    
    It was the way they were exited that was an issue and immoral, as ashes or just buried.
    
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    January 15, 2025 11:05am
  - sungsamning
    
    They can lead the way when the time comes. One way flights to their country of origin.
    
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    January 15, 2025 1:30pm
- sirknz
  
  Doing nothing will guarantee a return to policies espoused by the Austrian painter.
  
  Did you see the handwringing over Germans in their mid 20s singing along to a club song that roughly translates as ‘foreigners get out’ last year?
  
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  January 15, 2025 11:29am
  - sungsamning
    
    No, I didn’t. Is there a link?
    
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    January 15, 2025 1:31pm
  - MCōs
    
    It wasn’t foreigners the Nazis had an issue with as you well know, it was Jews.
    They didn’t deport them either, because they were Germans. Generally those that could emigrated and those left behind were initially deprived of their rights and later incarcerated and murdered
    
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    January 15, 2025 2:41pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZqgjk_e_6w
The Homan Hotline For Illegals is a “Good on Paper Bad in Practice” Idea.
It’s not that hard to filter out sincere reporting from spam; All that is required is a system more advanced than an answering machine. [Properly done, it can be a useful tool in the fight against illegals.]
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January 15, 2025 8:42am
imalwaysright

Starmer not invited to Trump’s inauguration because he undermined the election.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1999910/keir-starmer-snubbed-trump
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January 15, 2025 8:49am
- artemisia
  
  Various UK Labour pollies were mean about President Trump over the past few years. Guessing they thought he was goneburger. I see some are now saying how close the working relationship is going to be.
  
  https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-sir-keir-starmer-donald-trump-remarks-b1192311.html
  
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  January 15, 2025 12:03pm
  - sungsamning
    
    Yeah, who’d have guessed those comments will come back to bite them?
    
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    January 15, 2025 1:33pm
- MCōs
  
  That’ll be a relief to Starmer. He won’t have to rub shoulders with Farage who in turn is probably pleased Tommy Robinson, who he detests, is behind bars, unjustly according to bestie Elon Musk
  Our PM wasn’t invited either and NZ will be representing by the Ambassador.
  
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  January 15, 2025 2:30pm
Bridgenag

deregulating barn raising fixes this
disaster recovery is when you need free markets most of all

“Boone NC officials have confirmed that 62 members of the Pennsylvania Amish community have completed the construction of
12 tiny homes in under 48 hours. The total cost of the project for #WNC was over $300,000, all of which
was donated by the Amish community.”

….”The Amish came to Western NC and built 100+ tiny homes to shelter Helene victims
from the cold mountain weather. Local and state authorities kicked the victims out of their houses, saying they didn’t
pass code. pic.twitter.com/Xs5UPHYOJQ
“

https://open.substack.com/pub/boriquagato/p/deregulating-barn-raising-fixes-this?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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January 15, 2025 9:11am
- sirknz
  
  Yay. Government getting in the way.
  
  Again…
  
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  January 15, 2025 11:30am
Maggy Wassilieff

I’ve only spent 3 days in Los Angeles and couldn’t orient myself in an ecological sense until I’d taken a bus trip inland to Las Vegas.

But for some historical/ecological understanding of the place this recent account of the Los Angeles Watershed (esp. Chapter 3) is good.

Three basic characteristics of the South Coast Bioregion have remained constant since the end
of the Pleistocene: 1) Mediterranean climate; 2) Long-term abundance; 3) High climatic
variability. These features have evolutionarily encouraged genera and species that are adapted
to the extremes of drought, fire and flood.

https://cawaterlibrary.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/ethingtonhaynesfinalreportcompressed-1.pdf
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January 15, 2025 9:17am
Bridgenag

This post for the critical thinkers.

Very interesting interview of Aldous Huxley~ Freedom, Propaganda & Future of Technology

(1958 Mike Wallace Interview)

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/the-mathematics-of-psywar?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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January 15, 2025 9:25am
bennerg

Leadership is what helps bring people together in a common purpose, to achieve a better outcome.

Our country is currently tearing itself apart by allowing racial division, disparity in outcome (not based on need), and the promotion of mediocrity in place of meritocracy.

Our current PM, while competent in financial and some other managerial skills, does not seem to have any of the qualities that leaders such as Churchill, Reagan, Thatcher, Eisenhower exhibited.

It seems the country is being driven downhill by a combination of racial entrepreneurs, marxists wannabes, and industrial forces such as Big Pharma.

Common sense seems to be missing in so many places. Basic needs are not being provided anymore – Councils more into DEI than clean water, waiting times to see your GP now many weeks, transport a mess and getting messier, and general morale really not that great. Our national day “Waitangi Day” is viewed as a joke, with it being taken over by a bunch of idiots up north making it become a sad and farcical shadow of what it once was. Bare bums and dildos are not what our country is truly about.

Love him or hate him, Trump seems to have gathered a great team from both Democratic and Republican camps, and they are motivated, as is he. They seem to have been delegated authority to run with their respective areas.

Here in the land of the long black cloud (overhead), we have a passionless leader, desperately wanting to be loved and adored, who has his team so tightly constrained that there rarely allowed individuality to be expressed. The result is boredom, mediocrity, and just plain more of the same.

I hope that some of the shock and awe due in the USA come 20th January will rub off on this little Pacific island, and there will be inspiration for some new found leadership, to staunch the tectonic drift between our peoples, and help focus our energies on a productive and profitable future.
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January 15, 2025 9:36am
- mogg
  
  You missed out on Cultural Marxism which is now
  an established fact many NZ institutions. From MSM, Public Service (I suspect) through MMP it has now become rampant in parliament, Greens have been taken over completely, and many in Labour.
  Māori partnership and preference is our version of CRT, along with every other form of identity politics.
  Their common cause is a hatred of Capitalism so their goal is to cause division and disruption to achieve their ambitions.
  
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  January 15, 2025 10:57am
  - Paulus
    
    Is there not one feature in what is said and being done over recent times, and that is we are being overwhelmed by women, many there, becuse of that factor first.
    
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    January 15, 2025 1:41pm
    - mogg
      
      I think more young women are doing university degrees, this is where the CM indoctrination is taking place along with schools. Could go some way to explaining why left wing parties get the majority of their support from women. Trump has the right idea “any university found to be teaching identity politics or anti-semitism will be defunded”
      
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      January 15, 2025 2:58pm
Steve Otto N Shore

Just came to me email at 8.45 am, from Julian Batchelor.
Jordan Peterson. How New Zealand Is Headed For Civil War.

Video 10 minutes 27 sec.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdLPmLmMP2Y Why the Treaty Principles Bill was engineered to favour Luxon part 2.

[Mod – deleted, already posted]
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January 15, 2025 9:47am
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  Yes it was already posted Mod. The point is the heading was different. It is Part 1 but not headed as part 1. I posted it at 4.34 on Jan 13th under a heading of “How We’ve All Been Stitched Up.”
  It is confusing to link the two together.
  Thanks Mod.
  
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  January 15, 2025 10:27am
dh

Interesting article on politico.

Ukrainian soldiers describe the North Korean soldiers as being very far from inexperienced cannon fodder.

“They are young, motivated, physically fit, brave, and good at using small arms. They are also disciplined. They have everything you need for a good infantryman,” Chepurnyi said.

My take is that although they may lack modern tactics they are used to hardship and are fanatical and willing to sustain casualties. That’s probably all that matters given the nature of this war with not much maneuver. Seen footage of a wounded Nork blowing himself up when a Ukrainian approaches.
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January 15, 2025 9:49am
- rangitoto
  
  The diary of one of the ones captured indicates that he was sent there because of some misdemeanour and believed it was some kind of atonement. A lot of them are already dead or wounded.
  
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  January 15, 2025 2:06pm
Skippytony

Several years ago my family had a long conversation about exactly this question. We agreed that there were certain triggers that would cause us to be, um, early reactors. Several of us having lived and worked in other countries and have seen the signs. So we got down to things like moves by the government to restrict the flow of capital. Implementation of taxes on accumulation of capital. Successful steps to undermine ownership of property eg Iwi being able to put restrictive covenants on private property or force acquisition, or wholesale moves to entrench discrimination at the legislative or policy level such as mandating a certain percentage of say police roles must go to group such and such.
We review these triggers every year. The more proactive (and able) have already started trying to spread the risk and giving ourselves options we can activate at short notice. Our family includes professional people, business owners and investors. There is a limit to how much we will allow ourselves to be harvested.
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January 15, 2025 10:25am
- NothingLeft
  
  NZ is screwed with massive structural current account deficit, and no hope of finding new industries to bridge the gulf between imports and exports. The NZD is consequently doomed to go down and down and down, making everyone progressively poorer and leading to larger and larger wage differentials with Australia that will cause ever more capable people to depart further wrecking NZ economy. Toss in far-left neo-racist Maori supremacy and it’s an easy choice to leave.
  
  Every day you delay leaving will just make you poorer when you finally decide it’s time to jump.
  
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  January 15, 2025 3:12pm
Pope Punctilious II

RNZ says Melanie Nelson is a “researcher, writer, analyst and cross-cultural consultant” who is concerned about the lack of a democratic mandate for Seymour’s Regulatory Standards bill.

I don’t get it. Under MMP ACT formed part of the present government, and the dominant party in the coalition agreed to ACT’s Regulatory Standards proposal. If the current government doesn’t have a “democratic mandate” for this bill, did the Ardern government have such a mandate for Three Waters? For The Maori Health Authority? For He Puapua (developed behind closed doors by Labour’s Maori caucus)?
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January 15, 2025 10:49am
- artemisia
  
  Good point Pope P. But Melanie Nelson is clearly very concerned about democratic mandates so I’m sure she has trenchantly and publicly criticised all of the issues you mentioned. I haven’t managed to find such criticism yet, but I expect I am looking in the wrong places.
  
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  January 15, 2025 11:39am
- Paulus
  
  The media’s leaders have tried, even before the last election, to do whatever they can to try and undermine the elected three Party Government and will continue, for example by using Maori to try and get a knife into the parties.
  They do not understand, because they are the products of New Zealand Education, that by their doing makes the people who voted the Coalition stronger against their stupidty.
  
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  January 15, 2025 1:47pm
Skippytony

Game on. All those UK people shouting about St Elon tampering with British politics about to learn some hard lessons…

https://x.com/JimFergusonUK/status/1878896808107135484

[Mod – cleaned up link]
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January 15, 2025 11:51am
- kevn
  
  Skipper… Awesome.
  
  3 2
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  January 15, 2025 1:01pm
- sungsamning
  
  Ha ha. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Obviously nobody did any basic research.
  
  1 1
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  January 15, 2025 1:38pm
- artemisia
  
  20 million views? In a day? That needs a fact check!
  
  If views number is true Sofia Patel, Head of Operations at the UK Labour Party will be polishing their CV.
  
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  January 15, 2025 4:01pm
Ghost

12 year old boy missing in Christchurch, anyone there keep an eye out for him

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360548229/christchurch-mum-pleads-sightings-missing-son
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January 15, 2025 12:02pm
- Inandout
  
  Ghost, they say a picture is worth a thousand words so why are offenders often pixelated so we can’t recognise them?
  
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  January 15, 2025 12:33pm
  - Ghost
    
    What does that have to do with a missing boy?
    
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    January 15, 2025 1:09pm
    - Inandout
      
      Ghost, a picture……oh never mind.
      
      2 1
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      January 15, 2025 1:47pm
cmm

According to the list on Wikipedia, NZ ranks second in the world for car theft after Bermuda.

However this table is from 2020. In 2023 there was an increase of around 50% (yes, an increase of 19,000 vehicles in one year). That would put NZ safely in the number 1 spot (assuming Bermuda hasn’t increased dramatically).

That is about 6x the rate of Australia and 8x UK.

That is a shocking number and reflects on how little effort is put into clearing this up (by all of: the police catching them, the judicary punishing them and the NZ public in general securing their cars better).

Apart from the domestic impact, there is huge impact on tourism etc.

And that’s just theft of vehicles. It does not account for theft FROM vehicles and related vehicle damage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_theft
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January 15, 2025 12:41pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360548065/picking-apart-poo-moa-ate-fungi-kept-forests-healthy

Interesting article. I particularly like this bit :
“The plant-eating birds went extinct around 600 years ago.”
They “went extinct”: all by themselves !
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January 15, 2025 1:51pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  That Stuff article is paywalled for me (too mean to register my name/email)…
  but here’s a (better) account of the work published yesterday in “Science”
  
  https://www.science.org/content/article/new-zealand-s-giant-birds-feasted-colorful-trufflelike-fungi-fossil-poop-reveals
  
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  January 15, 2025 2:05pm
Paulus

I worked in Bermuda in the 1960/70s and it was a beautiful lump of coral rock, and there is no water there deslination and roof supplies or food as all imported – no cows even at th time.
Used to scooter round in an hour as cars were very few only locals and taxis.
There were few people from the Caribbean and there are no indgenous people – General Somers with a Scottish Regiment landed there and some stayed.
If I had not got married back in England I would have happily stayed there.
Lovely place, but very small.
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January 15, 2025 2:02pm
MCōs

The size of those fires in Los Angeles equates to about the area of Tauranga from what I can tell
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January 15, 2025 4:24pm

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