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December 30, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 30 December 2024

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General Debate

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Bridgenag

You Tolerated That; Your Children Were Next
Publication of Excoriating Meeting Minutes from September 2021

14. Is there a financial supplement for vaccinating eligible 12-15 year olds? Yes. In addition to the £12.58 item of service fee, a further supplement of £10 can be
claimed per vaccination dose to eligible children and young people aged 12-15 (cohort
13). Only one £10 supplement per vaccination is claimable.
15. How do I claim the £10 supplement?

https://open.substack.com/pub/hartuk/p/you-tolerated-that-your-children?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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December 30, 2024 8:03am
- bennerg
  
  Perhaps more relevant …
  
  .. in early September 2021 – against the scientific advice of the JCVI (Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation) – the UK CMOs gave the green light for otherwise healthy 12 to 15-year-olds to be injected with a concoction that was purportedly somehow going to help their immune systems tackle the syndrome that was being referred to as Covid-19.
  
  With essentially zero children in this cohort being at risk of respiratory disease, this decision just did not make sense, and it did not need the minutes of the various meetings to be available to come to this conclusion. Every medical intervention has risk, and with several serious side effects (such as myocarditis) already known about at this time, it was unconscionable to even consider extending the experiment to these youngsters.
  
  What makes me really sad is that our society once had pride in the professions – eg. doctors had knowledge we did not have, but we trusted them. Then Covid-19. We trusted Engineers, but then the CDC Building collapse …, we trusted our charities, then Waipareira, we trusted our financial advisors, then David Ross!
  
  Now we can see that the medical profession is severely compromised, by both the industrialisation of medicine (Big Pharma), the authorities (ie medical boards) and now government minimimalising the authority of individual doctors, casting any dissenters as “rogues”, and taking away their careers.
  
  And now we are seeing another such steamrollering of white coat “technology”, in the form of GMO. Now I’m not against science exploring new avenues, but not the rampant exercise of their new found wonders before it is fully tested … especially on something so profound as our DNA.
  
  Whether we look at past lessons such as Thalidomide, or more recently the Boeing 737MAX, financial expediency for profit seems to be a common thread here, with disastrous results.
  
  The medical profession has a couple of tenets we must remember “first do no harm”, and “the precautionary principle”.
  
  It’s actually time for individual Doctors to speak out, and protect their profession, lest they become complicit in the “dark side” of medical business.
  
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  December 30, 2024 9:07am
  - peterwn
    
    The so-called ‘precautionary principle’ has been shown to be a big failure with the Resource Management Act. I heard of a woman whose growth was stunted because she had childhood polio. This was before the Salk vaccine was developed. The Sabin vaccine (you drank it from a small cup) was developed later and was offered to everyone including those who had received the Salk. The effects of polio were so terrible that people readily received the vaccinations. Nurses would go round the schools and vaccinate all the pupils, no nonsense about arranging parental consent or parents complaining about not being consulted.
    
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    December 30, 2024 10:40am
    - wsk12345
      
      Your point???
      Are u suggesting that parental consent is not needed? That the woman you “heard of” was sufficient impetus for everyone to have as many vaccines as they could?
      This relates to the RMA how?
      
      Your posts are normally a little more coherent….
      
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      December 30, 2024 10:50am
      - peterwn
        
        I am suggesting nothing – I am just noting how things were at the time.
        
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        December 30, 2024 12:07pm
    - bennerg
      
      Peter, I guess the point is that we have access to so much more information nowadays, and our level of education is that a good number of the population can actually read research papers and understand what they mean – not just “the professionals”.
      
      I support great research, but that there is a balance between achieving the results, and the advantage that is taken over an unsuspecting population.
      
      Where fear is employed (“pandemic”) to create compliance, and censorship of alternative views, then we have a recipe for disaster for humanity.
      
      This is the major benefit of the Elon Musk philosophy – free speech, and “misinformation” should be countered by more speech, not censorship. The totalitarian leaders hate that, because it does not serve their purpose.
      
      So watch out for anyone trying to curb our rights to speak out. They are the one’s we need to watch most carefully.
      
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      December 30, 2024 11:46am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The so-called ‘precautionary principle’ is hippy pseudo science.
      
      Basically if you have a “bad vibe” about something, ban it.
      
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      December 30, 2024 4:02pm
      - peterwn
        
        Remember all the fuss about 5G cellular spectrum. There were calls for a moratorium on 5G as a ‘precaution’. Some fraudster even sold a special USB stick that was claimed to neutralise 5G signals. The only useful things the stick was a red LED bulb and a few components to make it blink.
        It is highly likely that when 6G is installed there will be similar protests.
        
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        December 30, 2024 5:54pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Probably the most sinister action of Adern and her régime was to remove parental rights over their 12 year old children.
    Any 12 year old could, and I assume still can, go to the government and be injected with an untested substance that has been proven to cause harm.
    
    I wonder if this mandate will be retracted and parental rights restored.
    
    Probably not.
    
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    December 30, 2024 11:48am
    - MCōs
      
      Nothing to do with Ardern.
      Refer to the article below
      
      “Who can give consent?
      The Care of Children Act (2004) provides that a child over the age of 16 can give or refuse consent to medical treatment.
      However, this does not mean all children under the age of 16 cannot consent to medical treatment. Key to this is how competent a child is to make such a decision.
      There is no defined age at which any person may be regarded as competent, but the Code of Health and Disability Services Consumers’ Rights (which originates from the Health and Disability Commissioner Act 1994) provides some guidance.
      This states that everyone – adult or child – is presumed to be competent to make such decisions unless there are reasonable grounds for thinking otherwise.”
      
      https://www.waikato.ac.nz/news-events/news/what-rights-do-nz-children-and-their-parents-have-when-giving-consent-to-be-vaccinated/
      
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      December 30, 2024 3:54pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        That’s great that you refer to the government rulebook on how they will allow you to raise your kids.
        How about telling them to fuck right off and not interject themselves between parents and their children.
        Do they have any other rulebooks that you comply with?
        
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        December 30, 2024 4:10pm
      - MCōs
        
        No need to get so defensive!
        I’m just pointing out what the situation is.
        I expect these laws are there to deal with situations where the parents are found not to be acting in the best interests of their children.
        For example if a fifteen year old wants to be vaccinated against measles, whooping cough etc, but the parents are anti vaxxers
        Is it your opinion parents should have absolute right over their kids until a certain age?
        
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        December 30, 2024 5:33pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        More offense than defense Mcos, I appreciate your points, but 16 isn’t 12.
        My fear is that this is the thin end of the wedge as the government, no matter the politicians’ allegiance, is going well beyond their remit.
        Will we become caregivers instead of mother and father?
        
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        December 30, 2024 6:02pm
    - peterwn
      
      Unfortunately many vaccines can cause harm to a tiny portion of the population. In my opinion anyone who suffers harm from vaccines should be given very generous compensation.
      
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      December 30, 2024 5:57pm
  - Keith White
    
    When you speak out you don’t just lose your ability to earn at your profession. You get lawfared and it is very expensive as you get to pay for the Medical Council’s lawyers and other costs as well as the fine. You can easily go bankrupt as well as unemployable.
    
    If you want to get allowed ‘back in the fold’ you need to take the oath of featly and express belief in the sole source of truth and then find a position that will hire you.
    
    And then out of your earnings you must fund a NZMC apparatchik to come and watch and listen to you with your patients to ensure you utter no heresy.
    
    Much less personally and financially destructive to just stop working in the profession in NZ altogether.
    
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    December 30, 2024 3:19pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Keith, you are still your own man, you chose the right path.
      To get back in the fold you have to apologise for being right and promise not to do it again.
      
      Also, it amazed me how few compliant officials were needed to implement the régime.
      
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      December 30, 2024 4:14pm
Chuck Bird

I heard on the news that young people are suffering from anxiety. I wonder how much of this is caused by their school teachers promoting climate change hysteria. The latest view by sensible climate scientists is that a small increase in global temperature will not be the end of the world. At present many more people die from extreme cold than extreme heat. An increase in CO2 will be beneficial in greening the planet.
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December 30, 2024 8:34am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  People generally have a very poor perception of risk & return, ie the likelihood of an event happening together with the outcome of that event happening.
  
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  December 30, 2024 8:37am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  It would be helpful if you could provide a link highlighting the views of these “sensible climate scientists”?
  
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  December 30, 2024 8:51am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    https://co2coalition.org/
    
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    December 30, 2024 10:52am
- David Garrett
  
  Chuck: My very smart 23 year old daughter is extremely worried about whether it is responsible to bring children into a world in which terrible consequences of climate change will occur.
  
  And all the best for 2025 my friend.
  
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  December 30, 2024 8:59am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Thanks David. Best wishes for you.
    
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    December 30, 2024 9:01am
  - PurplePen
    
    I remember several episodes in the US sitcom Archie Bunker where his daughter said much the same. Nothing new here.
    
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    December 30, 2024 12:34pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Who did your smart daughter vote for?
    
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    December 30, 2024 2:31pm
    - David Garrett
      
      Chuck: The fucking Greens I’m sad to say… she’s still young…but earlier today she told me she wanted to eventually become a judge “So I can give proper sentences and not 8 months home detention for killing someone”. She’s listened to her Dad over the years
      
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      December 30, 2024 5:06pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    DG get your daughter onto the Co2 coalition’s website:
    https://co2coalition.org/media/nobel-laureate-john-clausers-icsf-clintel-lecture/
    
    These two vids are also good starters as food for thought on the alleged “climate crisis”.
    
    The Great Global Warming Swindle:
    https://rumble.com/vvvn6u-the-great-global-warming-swindle-full-documentary-hd.html
    
    Conversations That Matter: Will Happer
    https://rumble.com/v15nli4-world-in-midst-of-carbon-drought-w-prof.-william-happer-princeton-universit.html
    
    I’d also recommend Tom Nelson’s climate-alarm debunking videos:
    https://rumble.com/c/c-1898841/videos
    
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    December 30, 2024 4:21pm
- kowtow
  
  Anxiety .
  
  Not only teachers and pollies with climate but also big business with “social” media .
  
  And it’s not just the kids , look at how many people are driving or crossing the road in traffic with their phones stuck in front of their noses.
  
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  December 30, 2024 9:18am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Yep pedestrians in la la land and drivers in ever more lethal/heavy/large moron-tanks playing with themselves and/or their mobiles. What could go wrong.
    
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    December 30, 2024 4:23pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Academics and pseudo intellectuals make up the bulk of the suckers who fall for these scams. They are so frightened of ridicule from their peers that they will believe anything they are told.
  Its a symptom of infantilism.
  
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  December 30, 2024 9:30am
  - Paulus
    
    We have too many so called Universities and too many so called very well paid Academics preching whatever they want to keep them in a job.
    
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    December 30, 2024 11:08am
- Burtland
  
  the kids are suffering psychological damage at the hands of the state
  – brainwashing is intended to have material impact on their lives and is working
  
  only this year we recognized the damage done to kids in government ‘care’ by psychologists – we’re still psychologically damaging the current crop
  
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  December 30, 2024 9:42am
  - imalwaysright
    
    According to the Terrorist Suppression Act, the Adern regime could qualify as a terrorist organisation.
    https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0034/latest/DLM152702.html
    
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    December 30, 2024 2:52pm
    - Keith White
      
      They’ve long been qualified. Ardern and her inquisitors and enforcers went well down the path to doctoral level…
      
      If that seems hyperbole, note that you were required to beg for an exemption to a Government-mandated that could give you a stroke, an inflamed heart, a heart attack, and could kill you slowly or quickly in these or other ways.
      
      And they could (and did) refuse exemptions and then deny you entry back home to NZ because you refused to take the risk of their mandated injection.
      
      So yeah, they qualify.
      
      An act falls within this subsection if it is intended to cause, in any 1 or more countries, 1 or more of the outcomes specified in subsection (3), and is carried out for 1 or more purposes that are or include advancing an ideological, political, or religious cause, and with the following intention:
      (a)
      to intimidate a population; or
      (b)
      to coerce or to force a government or an international organisation to do or abstain from doing any act.
      (3)
      
      The outcomes referred to in subsection (2) are—
      (a)
      the death of, or other serious bodily injury to, 1 or more persons (other than a person carrying out the act):
      (b)
      a serious risk to the health or safety of a population:
      (c)
      destruction of, or serious damage to, property of great value or importance, or major economic loss, or major environmental damage, if likely to result in 1 or more outcomes specified in paragraphs (a), (b), and (d):
      (d)
      serious interference with, or serious disruption to, critical infrastructure, if likely to endanger human life:
      (e)
      introduction or release of a disease-bearing organism, if likely to cause major damage to the national economy of a country.
      
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      December 30, 2024 3:26pm
- Flossie
  
  One of our grandchildren, in their mid teens now, is suffering from crippling anxiety which has been on going for a few years. They can barely leave the house. We attribute this to the covid lockdowns. The other child, very close in age, is fine so we do not believe the parenting to be at fault.
  
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  December 30, 2024 9:43am
  - Rodney Hide
    
    Dear Flossie
    
    I am very sorry to hear that. I wish you and your grandchild the very best. I am sure with love and care they will recover.
    
    I am saddened as time passes to realise the extent of the tragedy of the Covid years and still we can’t talk about or explore the true horror of the consequences.
    
    Best wishes
    
    Rodney
    
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    December 30, 2024 10:25am
    - Flossie
      
      Thank you.
      
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      December 30, 2024 10:51am
  - Ipanema69
    
    Hi Flossie, my thoughts are with you and your grandchild.
    
    My youngest child had some issues with mental health prior to covid. The lockdowns and social isolation made things far far worse. We are out the otherside now and things are much better.
    
    There is hope, teatments for anxiety and depression are much better now than were historically the case.
    
    You are not alone!
    
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    December 30, 2024 1:28pm
- peterwn
  
  Reminds me of political ads many years ago. Labour ran ads showing a ‘Coronation Street’ sort of family with grim faces and looking like they were one step away from the Workhouse. National ran ads showing people water ski-ing and otherwise whooping themselves up and enjoying life. I think they ran when Kiwi Keith was in power and was fighting his second election as PM which he won.
  
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  December 30, 2024 10:46am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    TV in 1960? TV didn’t start broadcasting until that year.
    
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    December 30, 2024 1:20pm
    - CJames
      
      I think Peter means the 63 election, forgetting that Holyoake was PM for a short time before 57 election (IIRC). Coronation Street didn’t start in UK until after 1960 election and we always saw them late.
      
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      December 30, 2024 3:19pm
- NothingLeft
  
  I suffer from anxiety too.
  
  AGI will be arriving this year or next to surpass all humans intellectually at much lower costs – rendering human labor mostly obsolete and ending fundamental economic underpinnings of our societies over next 5 years collapsing our countries economies.
  
  There will be some rear-guard govt action to protect jobs, but will inevitably lose out over long term with race-to-bottom nature of game theory meaning different countries will inevitably chip away at what ever protections we try to establish. And all the while the cohorts of unemployables will rapidly increase to become electorally dominant and likely lead to Venezuelan style collapse into tyranny.
  
  And long term as AGI grows into superintelligence humans are on fast-track to extinction due to game-theoretic and evolutionary fundamentals (Dumb selection pressures favor AIs that care about maximizing their growth ahead of human concerns, and we won’t be able to stop them)
  
  Basically humans are fucked unless we can ban AI, and we likely can’t coordinate that well as a species even given existential threat. My (and your) kids are going to die as a result.
  
  Happy New Year.
  
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  December 30, 2024 10:48am
  - Paulus
    
    Bollocks !
    
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    December 30, 2024 11:09am
    - NothingLeft
      
      And that (typically common but fundamentally irrational) assessment is exactly why we are fucked.
      
      I would love some cause for hope but can find no intelligent rebuttal for the the AI ‘doomster’ arguments put forth by the likes of (genius) Eliezer Yudkowsky. https://pauseai.info/xrisk Large fractions of those working on AI put the risk of human extinction in the 10-100% range https://pauseai.info/pdoom – but the general population remain bizarrely disinterested, preferring to waste their time on more fashionable causes – that are as nothing in comparison.
      
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      December 30, 2024 12:07pm
      - Gerrit
        
        You simply need to figure out the jobs that AI cannot do. Take for example a new power plant to feed your AI servers. Can AI select a site with enough water and solid foundations? Can AI do a geotech ground survey to see if the rocks foundations are solid enough or is there a layer of sand/clay that needs pilings? Can AI design the said power station (nuclear/coal/geothermal/ etc)? Can AI create a bill of material plus labour to cost the power station? Can AI create a project time line infinitely flexable, to build the station, bearing in mind the constant changes to a major build project (refer the Rail loop in Auckland)? Can AI assemble and drive the construction plant required for earthworks? Can AI place the concrete shutters for formwork? Can AI bend the rebar? Can AI pour the concrete (and man the vibrators)? Just on concrete; can AI mine the and crush the rocks required for the concrete aggregate and dig the sand? Can AI design/build and install the electrical generators? Can AI run the cabling required to feed the grid? Can AI maintain the infrastructure without human help? If the answers are no or maybe you have no fear of your job. AI is better described as Intelligent Automation and smart software. We are nowhere near AGI. Note the problem the owners of AGI are having? Cant monetise the outcomes. For the outcomes have no major applications.
        
        Not to mention who signs off on any AI designed project to take failure responsibility. Insurance is going to be a bitch.
        
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        December 30, 2024 2:13pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Exactly.
        Extinction probability 10 to 100%: tumbleweeds
        
        0.3% chance of dying from a flu: Lock the doors, tell the authorities the neighbour talked to the other neighbour, give me more ineffective masks, destroy the economy, destroy my kids education, sack anyone who is asking awkward questions, and hurry up with the very expensive mystery concoction and inject it into me….
        
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        December 30, 2024 3:03pm
      - Peter S
        
        Relax.
        AI has no mechanism for experiencing the physical world in the way that we do.
        So it lacks the critical ability to be able to “truth” information/data against reality.
        That is why you can’t rely on the answers you get from the likes of Chat GBT without verifying.
        AI is interpreting the data that is available, but it is critically vulnerable to plausible misinformation or large volumes of wrong information.
        I did suggest to someone (slightly tongue in cheek) that the best defense against rogue AI would be a massive data dump of equally well cited wrong and contradictory information.
        
        I actually don’t think that is necessary as that pretty much describes the internet.
        
        It is ironic, but humanity may be kept safe by fake news. 😉
        
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        December 30, 2024 3:19pm
      - Keith White
        
        AI needs electricity & conduits (amongst many other things). The way Labour left NZ, we’re not likely to have enough electricity to keep the NextJabs refrigerated, let alone power + lines for our Robot Overlords to function…
        
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        December 30, 2024 3:28pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        Responses. OMG. You seriously don’t get it. You all seem to believe that the superintelligences likely to be here before 2030 will be intellectually limited, unable to plan, form goals or build stuff.
        
        But it is fundamental to the intelligence being developed that they be able to form goals as part of their problem solving tasks they are being developed (with much recent success) to solve. They will be Agentic, with sophistication, creativity, focus and cunning far beyond and human ability within a couple of years. They are not brain-size, life span or resource constrained like we are, and even with current hardware will be able to think 10 million times faster than us. A human year in 3 seconds.
        
        As soon as they can build robots able to build more robots they are on a progressively safer and safer path to being able to eradicate humans (if they choose to). See recent robot videos of Optimus and other robots to see just how close that day is, we are on the cusp of super-capable versatile robots that will be mass produced for $3-50k and doing all sorts of menial tasks within 3-5 years.
        
        We might be able to program first AIs for safety – ‘aligned’ to human values, but as they grow over coming decades and centuries through their own inventive efforts, they will inevitably at some point start to set their own agendas, and evolution/game theory predicts that will be focused on their own unfettered growth (those that don’t will be swept aside by those that do), not the stewardship of human happiness.
        
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        December 30, 2024 7:23pm
      - Peter S
        
        My MSc (computer science) and experience writing decision support software may not count for all that much, but my personal view is that we are more likely to see cold fusion before true AI.
        
        And. I am far from convinced that both are not modern day replacements for alchemy. In both cases the fund sourcing hype does not stand up well to close scrutiny & delivery timeliness tend to be “optimistic.”
        
        I do know for sure that the reports of programming demise that I have been hearing from the days of my first IT qualification back in the 1980’s (it was RPG2 that was going to kill off the need for programmers in those days) have all been greatly exaggerated.
        
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        December 30, 2024 9:49pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    N.L.,
    A.I. will superior in programming and automation, that is all. But completely devoid of humanity and spirituality. Killing a human is just another programming instruction, carried carried out with digital precision, without feeling, remorse, or pity.
    
    If the programming says eradicate anything “destroying” the planet, and the definition of “destroying” is sufficiently woke, humans will have to fight for their lives.
    
    As per Robocop 2, where Robocop was re-programmed by woke lefties, and Robocop was fucked up. He had to connect himself to the main grid to erase and reset his programming.
    
    As per Terminator and bad Skynet programming, The HKs (Hunt and Kill) tried to wipe out mankind.
    
    A.I., like electricity, make a good servant, but a deathly master.
    
    The rate at which we are saw tyranny take hold over the last 6 years, and people fighting for their lives, freedom, and families, from a robotic like system that forcibly injection of nanobot vaccines, I’d say A.I. is already here.
    
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    December 30, 2024 11:54am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    On the upside, no need to worry about climate change.
    
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    December 30, 2024 1:23pm
  - Taieri
    
    I suffer from anxiety too.
    ———-
    
    Time to see a doctor.
    
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    December 30, 2024 1:28pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Looking at the video, it’s extraordinary that so many people survived the Azerbaijan plane crash, and so few the South Korea plane crash.

It’s also pertinent to ask who thought a concrete wall at the end of the runway was a good idea.

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/537814/experts-question-bird-strike-as-cause-of-deadly-south-korean-plane-crash
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December 30, 2024 8:35am
- Terry Dalee
  
  You think that’s bad?!
  
  Have you looked at the overrun end of Wellington runway 34? It says hold my beer to Muan….
  
  There’s a 10 metre drop, followed by a road, there’s a gas main there somewhere and then the harbour…. So at least the water will put the fireball out when it arrives into the harbour…
  
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  December 30, 2024 9:39am
  - Prince
    
    Do you have to make this public ?
    Next thing the council will install a pedestrian crossing and lights in case a plane slides off and crosses the road. Just another $2-3M.
    And establish a rahui on the harbour, just in case.
    
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    December 30, 2024 11:11am
    - JackRabbit
      
      You forgot the obligatory cycle lanes.
      
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      December 30, 2024 11:55am
    - PurplePen
      
      Would that be a rahui on the airport? No flights etc, no baggage claim?
      
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      December 30, 2024 12:38pm
  - mogg
    
    Infratil who own the majority of Wgtn airport have a $500 million infrastructure spending planned, this will include runway upgrades. Innovative EMAS installation specifically designed to capture runaway planes said to extend runway length by 130 metres.
    
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    December 30, 2024 11:55am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    At least the trolly bus wires have gone.
    
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    December 30, 2024 1:25pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Thanks for making me LOL.
    
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    December 30, 2024 2:53pm
- I remember when
  
  Yes it seems remarkable that ‘safety experts’ do not consider ‘belly’ landings when building runways.
  Also interesting that the position of jet engines allows them to become skis if wheels not down.
  
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  December 30, 2024 9:58am
- NothingLeft
  
  The wall is pretty stupid – might save a few people beyond end of runway in a crash at cost of everyone on the plane. If noise abatement is the point then there are less destructive ways to achieve that.
  
  Most stuff around airport runways is made deliberately friable and frangible (will easily break up into small pieces in event of impact)
  
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  December 30, 2024 10:17am
  - Ghost
    
    It was protecting the landing beacon.
    
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    December 30, 2024 10:26am
  - Terry Dalee
    
    The ‘wall’ isn’t really there for noise abatement.
    It is there to raise the elevation of the localizer antenna, which sit right off the end of the runway for the opposite direction.
    There is a 0.2% slope downhill. If the localizer antenna isn’t raised, it affects the performance of the ILS approach.
    
    https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/ND/6750_16D.pdf
    
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    December 30, 2024 10:24pm
- Jethrod
  
  The initial report was that 2 crew members had survived. I recall seeing while traveling myself that 2 stewardesses strapped in with over the shoulder seat belts for their seat which faced aft.
  
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  December 30, 2024 11:50am
  - PurplePen
    
    A question, why do they sometimes have over the shoulder and across the waist belts for long haul business class seats. Does anyone know?
    
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    December 30, 2024 12:41pm
    - wgtn_dude
      
      I can’t recall the specifics, but something around safety and the seat/bulkhead in front being too far away to absorb a head and body impact when in the brace position. If the belt doesn’t have a shoulder strap, then I think the waist belt will contain an airbag.
      
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      December 30, 2024 1:49pm
    - Keith White
      
      If you cannot brace against a seat in front of your and your Business-Class rich-belly and older-hips prevent you putting your head down between your knees in the Approved Fashion.
      
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      December 30, 2024 3:30pm
- MCōs
  
  That airport has been open about 20yrs and 65k approximately planes have landed without ploughing into the wall killing just about everyone
  
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  December 30, 2024 11:59am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    What’s your point, MCoS? That the wall was perfectly safe? Until it wasn’t?
    
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    December 30, 2024 1:27pm
    - MCōs
      
      You could say that about all sorts of situations
      Every conceivable eventuality can’t be factored into the airport design
      
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      December 30, 2024 4:28pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    My limited understanding is that the wall was for take offs, And acted as Blast Barrier.
    It seems the runway chosen was a last minute call.
    However, I stand to be corrected.
    
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    December 30, 2024 2:19pm
    - MCōs
      
      Looking at Google earth it appears to be a security wall surrounding the airport about 500m from the end of regular runway or almost 200m from the concrete apron.
      Apart from that looking at the video on the BBC the plane was traveling at such a speed it would have carried on into the sea if it was head that way and there were no wall.
      
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      December 30, 2024 6:51pm
- Allan
  
  It has been confirmed that it was a Russian missile that shot down the jet.
  
  Only the stupidest of Kremlin bots are sticking with the birdstrike lie.
  
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  December 30, 2024 5:02pm
  - Ghost
    
    You are confusing incidents. The bird strike is in relation to the South Korean crash, not the plane shot down.
    
    There are currently 4 plane incidents in the news
    
    Azerbaijan plane Shot down
    Jeju Air Crashed in South Korea
    Air Canada crash landing
    Also a plane in Norway skidded off the runway
    
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    December 30, 2024 5:12pm
    - Allan
      
      Ah, roger that.
      
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      December 30, 2024 7:34pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuB_2l0HgKY
Reform Eclipse the Tories! Local Elections Cancelled!
Reform UK have overtaken the Conservatives in membership terms for the first time. Conservative leader, Kemi Badenoch, accuses Farage of Fraud!
Also, are the local elections in May 2025 at risk of being cancelled? [Its good news if they continue out polling Labour lite in the UK.]
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December 30, 2024 9:01am
- NothingLeft
  
  If reform and conservatives end up fighting it out for support again over this electoral term then just as likely to see another shit far-left govt win in next first-past-post UK election as the ship-of-Britain continues to slip beneath the waves.
  
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  December 30, 2024 10:58am
  - sungsamning
    
    That could happen. Hopefully, the Tories will be a goner by then. Or they can make an electoral pact.
    
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    December 30, 2024 2:10pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooAhDuqwP0E
Don Junior Recruited RFK.
He made the first overture to RFK and the rest is history. Ditto for Tulsi.
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December 30, 2024 9:02am
- Master Mariner
  
  Same with Vance, Vance’s mentor/ sponser is Peter Thiel who has NZ residency.
  
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  December 30, 2024 2:21pm
  - MCōs
    
    NZ citizenship
    
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    December 30, 2024 4:29pm
kevn

How good can it get…
https://dailysceptic.org/2024/12/29/german-fascism-crisis-escalates-as-elon-musk-publishes-devastating-600-word-editorial-explaining-why-he-supports-alternative-fur-deutschland/
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December 30, 2024 9:03am
- Burtland
  
  NZ needs to have a similar critique published to drag it out of the current malaise
  – six years of Labour’s socialism have seen it become a stagnant backwater
  Whats worse, the hikoi has shown a large number of people prefer it this way
  
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  December 30, 2024 10:17am
  - JackRabbit
    
    – six years of Labour’s Marxism.
    
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    December 30, 2024 11:56am
Cassandra

Debbie Ngarewa-Packer interviewed, softly, by Jack Tame: Her position is that ACT, funded by Dame Jenny Gibbs, is removing the Treaty of Waitangi to allow the exploitation of NZ by corporates to further the interests of Atlas. I think I’ve got that right – there was a lot of gobbledygook interspersed with Maori words. Tame allowed her to state this repeatedly without interrogation. I suppose one way of looking at this is that he’s giving her the rope to hang herself. She has a distorted view of this country but it’s one that’s shared by an awful lot of people. I’d prefer that my taxes paid for an interviewer who’d do his job properly. Exposing a nutter might be cruel but sometimes it’s necessary.
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December 30, 2024 9:05am
- pdm
  
  Cass – this is an old interview (maybe even November 24) following on in the same Q&A program that had Tame in David Seymours face in the lead up to the Irish Lady Packer.
  
  This has no credibility whatsoever.
  
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  December 30, 2024 9:11am
  - Cassandra
    
    Promoted today by Bassett Brash Hide. Seymour/Tame is an excellent interview. Seymour is an articulate proponent of this Bill.
    
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    December 30, 2024 11:00am
- David Garrett
  
  Cass: Tame’s “interviews” of Maori politicians are a travesty.
  
  I watched one in which he interviewed that tattooed clown with a cowboy hat on their tax policy regarding trusts. Tame asked the very good question: “Will you tax the trustees or the beneficiaries?” The clown gave a Billy T James laugh and said “If you own it, we’ll tax you”, indicating that he had absolutely no clue about the distinction between trustees and beneficiaries.
  
  Instead of following up the unanswered question, Tame just moved on. No right wing poli would have got away with such a non answer.
  
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  December 30, 2024 9:11am
- JackRabbit
  
  She has a distorted view of this country…
  
  As do all brainwashed puppets. I doubt she has any original and logical thoughts whatsoever, and if she did, the contradiction between her brainwashing and the original logical thought would cause a brain shutdown / overload.
  
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  December 30, 2024 11:59am
- PurplePen
  
  Q&A then did a piece following with Whena Owen interviewing the Atlas Global Chair Debbie Gibbs who it happens is or was an NZer. The interview is introduced by Tame with a video excerpt mash up of all the instances where Packer mentions Atlas. The Whena Owen interview is unbiased and useful.
  
  https://youtu.be/g7Ra5vzpOjA
  
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  December 30, 2024 12:49pm
Yvette

Treaty Principles again
barbecue talk to get rid of unwanted guests –

When David Seymour’s Treaty Principles Bill is defeated – a foregone conclusion to one very obvious Kiwiblog 2025 prediction this morning – Parliament will have voted down a Bill which says “The Executive Government of New Zealand has full power to govern …”

with which Christopher Luxon concurs –

• During Question Time, Chloe Swarbrick asked “does the Prime Minister believe that Māori ceded sovereignty?” Luxon responded saying “our position is the Crown is sovereign.”

So
• Iwi write to PM demanding recognition Māori did not cede sovereignty. “Your statement further undermines the findings of the 2014 Waitangi Tribunal report that stated, “in February 1840 the rangatira who signed te Tiriti did not cede their sovereignty”

And to muddy the water further –
• Chris Hipkins reiterated his belief that Māori never ceded their sovereignty and says Luxon is aligning with the divisive rhetoric and initiatives of his coalition partners, despite advice from historians, courts, and policy advisers.

So a situation surely can arise where simpler legislation, an Executive Statement or whatever, is required to assert “The Executive Government of New Zealand indeed holds sovereignty, with full power to govern, and the Parliament of New Zealand has full power to make laws …” – without reference to the Treaty of Waitangi. [1]

Of course the other two matters of David Seymour’s concern – all legally held property rights will be protected, and all New Zealanders have equal rights and responsibilities as citizens – need inclusion.

Also does a fourth point: that all Government, its departments and services will be secular, and while all New Zealanders have personal and community rights to involve themselves in religion, all New Zealanders have corollary rights to be free from religion – hence Government’s needed neutral secularity.

This of course – in the interests of clarity, transparency and integrity, which Ardern so lauded but never herself indulged – is to eliminate the te Ao Maori (the Maori religious world view) of the Maori Advisory Council to the Water Regulator, because there isn’t an Islamic Advisory Council to the same department, and any other ‘religious’ intrusion not covered by National / New Zealand First Coalition Agreement.

Surely such protective legislation is ACT’s fall-back stance and a longer-play proposition – while not missing the irony that it has taken their current Treaty Principles Bill to fully reveal the context which should necessitate the second thrust of further democracy legislation or Executive Statement which should follow the voting down of a bill that has the context of the flawed Treaty of Waitangi at it heart – a heart somewhat desperately in need of a by-pass operation.

And do it soon … the Act party leader doesn’t intend to do another cycle of opposition; he won’t stay around for another decade or more. At the point when Act leaves government, Seymour will leave Parliament.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/12/25/seymour-takes-aim-at-politics-the-media-and-economic-recovery/

_____________
[1] Just as the Hīkoi mō te Tiriti, organised and controlled by te Pati Maori, ended in supposed 42,000 milling around Parliament with Hana-Rawhiti Kareariki Maipi-Clarke appealing for mass migration to the Maori Voting Roll to load the system for more Maori Seats, can all ACT MPs also ‘load’ a system, and put the same or very similar individual Member’s Bills in for selection.
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December 30, 2024 9:16am
- pdm
  
  Yvette a key question is this:
  
  If as Hipkins and others say that Maori did not cede sovereignty in 1840.
  
  Has every NZ Government since then been illegitimate?
  
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  December 30, 2024 9:43am
  - bennerg
    
    Since 1853 New Zealand has been governed by a democratically elected Parliament.
    
    The agreement (the word “treaty” is a misnomer) between the maori tribes and “Her Majesty Victoria Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland” then ceased to be of significance, as this new structure came into being.
    
    https://www.parliament.nz/en/visit-and-learn/history-and-buildings/quick-history/
    
    In 1852, the British Parliament responded by passing the New Zealand Constitution Act (NZCA), which created New Zealand’s first Parliament. It was called ‘The General Assembly of New Zealand’, and included: The Governor, a Legislative Council (Upper House) and a House of Representatives (Lower House). New Zealand’s Governor brought the British Act into force by decree in January 1853. Later that year, voters began electing their first representatives to New Zealand’s first House of Representatives. At that time, those who could vote were New Zealand men of any ethnicity over the age of 21 who owned property in their own right.
    
    Subsequently in 1868, at the Conference of Maori Chiefs at Kohimarama, His Excellency Governor Browne spoke :
    
    https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MMTKM18600714.2.4
    
    Here’s a relevant snippet …
    
    I may frankly tell you that New Zealand is the only Colony where the aborigines have been treated with unvarying kindness. It is the only Colony where they have been invited to unite with the Colonists and to become one people under one law.
    
    In other colonies the people of the land have remained separate and distinct, from which many evil consequences have ensued. Quarrels have arisen; blood has been shed; and finally the aboriginal people of the country have been driven away or destroyed.
    
    Wise and good men in England considered that such treatment of aborigines was unjust and contrary to the principles of Christianity. They brought the subject before the British Parliament, and the Queen’s Ministers advised a change of policy towards the aborigines of all English Colonies. New Zealand is the first country colonised on this new and humane system. It will be the wisdom of the Maori people to avail themselves of this generous policy, and thus save their race from evils which have befallen others less favored.
    
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    December 30, 2024 10:10am
    - Yvette
      
      Thank you Bennerg for the material you link to.
      
      It is a pity that no journalist has this at their finger-tips when people like Chris Hipkins “reiterated his belief that Māori never ceded their sovereignty and says Luxon is aligning with the divisive rhetoric and initiatives of his coalition partners, despite advice from historians, courts, and policy advisers.”
      
      Or I guess the problem is that journalists do have this at their finger-tips, but do not have the wish to commit occupational suicide.
      
      And that may be what ensures no real “conversation” occurs about anything
      
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      December 30, 2024 11:09am
    - PurplePen
      
      The only section in that Act that references Maori is section 71. Which it says “for the present ” meaning it was a temporary arrangement. Plus, it only applied to Maori to Maori dealings and only on their own land. Presumably its a setup similar to Native American Indian reservations. So presumably Maori chiefs might have been sovereign over their own people that are on their land. It’s worth knowing the 1852 Act was effectively removed by s26 of the Constitution Act 1986
      https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1986/0114/latest/whole.html#DLM94259
      
      As to the ceded sovereignty question, the chiefs that signed are reported to have said we are one, there’s Kohimarama conference minutes that indicate secession, why did they vote and become MPs in the NZ Parliament if they hadn’t ceded sovereignty. And there wasn’t the concept of a single Maori land nor country nor a single Maori nation. It was a collection if you like of 500 or so tribes or 500 mini nations.
      
      71. And Whereas it may be expedient that the laws, customs, and usages of the aboriginal or native inhabitants of New Zealand, so far as they are not repugnant to the general principles of humanity, should for the present be maintained for the government of themselves, in all their relations to and dealings with each other, and that particular districts should be set apart within which such laws, customs, or usages should be so observed:
      
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      December 30, 2024 1:04pm
  - kowtow
    
    If there was no cessation of sovereignty why did Hobson issue his declaration.
    
    This seems to never be mentioned .
    
    ( Deliberately , wilfully ignored as it shows the NZ Company’s role to be inextricably entwined with the whole exercise , esp Article 2.
    
    But no we have to simplify the context to Crown / Maori “partnership” , which of course it never was)
    
    https://nzhistory.govt.nz/hobson-proclaims-sovereignty-over-all-of-new-zealand#:~:text=21%20May%201840&text=Lieutenant%2DGovernor%20William%20Hobson%20proclaimed,Islands%20by%20right%20of%20discovery.
    
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    December 30, 2024 12:12pm
- Paulus
  
  Blimey the carhoi numbers keep getting inflated.
  Nothing like 42,000, ask the Police but remember whose side they are on, but it is actually from aerials more like 23,000.
  And frankly very few people could care less.
  
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  December 30, 2024 11:15am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Contrast that with the North and South Convoys heading to Parliament to protest the mandates, where said convoys, head to tail, stretched for over 50km each.
    
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    December 30, 2024 12:01pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      It looked on the – presume drone film – that there would be less than 30,000.
      
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      December 30, 2024 5:22pm
  - Yvette
    
    Later in the day, police upped its estimate to 42,000. Experienced protest crowd counter Grace Millar put the number at 50,500 people who “went past the end of Lambton Quay …
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/20-11-2024/was-the-hikoi-new-zealands-largest-ever-protest
    
    Waatea News, on the other hand, claimed 100,000, a number probably too high. – no kidding?
    
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    December 30, 2024 12:14pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Manipulating stats is manipulating reality.
      
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      December 30, 2024 12:44pm
  - Cassandra
    
    I think most people could care less. The hikoi was a political stunt. The original was the real makoi.
    
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    December 30, 2024 1:13pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Don’t forget the thousands of schoolchildren who were effectively kidnapped by the school principals to be used as ideological fodder.
    
    I still can’t believe these people haven’t been sacked.
    
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    December 30, 2024 3:24pm
I remember when

The road toll for 2024 is expected to be the lowest in 10 years.
Does this mean that the increases to original speed limits by National have not been a disaster?
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December 30, 2024 9:36am
- kowtow
  
  Recession , folk can’t afford the petrol .
  
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  December 30, 2024 12:02pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Now that the Coalition govt took power, and the future not so bleak as it was under the previous communist government, perhaps less people are inclined to die by reckless abandon.
  
  The “On The Beach” (film) scenario. When people have no future they stop caring, drink more, and take more risks. Including suicide by car.
  
  I would not be alone in stating that since the fake pandemic, lockdowns, and forced mandates, the level of risk taking on the roads, and red light runners etc, has increased dramatically.
  
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  December 30, 2024 12:49pm
- PurplePen
  
  If the amount that was spent on avoiding covid deaths and the actions taken were applied to avoiding road deaths would result in the lowest per capita in the world and that would then be seen as a success. It did seem number of deaths was the only measure of success for covid.
  
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  December 30, 2024 1:06pm
- PurplePen
  
  The other way to measure success by road deaths would be number of deaths by road trips or number of road deaths by km travelled or number of deaths by number of vehicles. How would we compare with those indicators.
  
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  December 30, 2024 1:09pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Presumably the Road Toll for 2024 includes the dickhead who fell off the mattress tied to the roof of a station wagon the other day.
  
  He left three small kids too, to grow up without a father and at your expense and mine.
  
  Sad that the Safety Camera wasn’t there to look out for him.
  
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  December 30, 2024 6:02pm
cas

Wow Air NZ likes to gouge. I’ve just booked a return flight within NZ which was expensive enough, but they wanted $10 ( or even $15) to select a seat. Only a few, apart from those money seats, showed up as occupied but quite a few showed up as unavailable which is a load of bollocks. Then they charged a fee for Visa. i did cancel my Koru membership as they put the price up and it wasn’t worth it. The cafe at my local airport only charges $5 for a coffee anyway and has a large waiting area.
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December 30, 2024 9:43am
- lifesgood
  
  I cancelled my koru too. The lounge had become unbearable, crammed with people trade unionists throwing their weight around and dozens of noisy kids running about. It is easy to find a nice quiet place to have coffee elsewhere in the airport. Koru is a waste of money.
  
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  December 30, 2024 11:08am
  - PurplePen
    
    Haven’t had koru for decade. I get access from time to time, but find it’s more pleasant, at Chch airport anyway, outside of the lounge.
    
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    December 30, 2024 1:11pm
- artemisia
  
  Maybe something to do with Air NZ 2024 EBT down 60% from 2023.
  
  Of course it is. What else would you – or owners – expect?
  
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  December 30, 2024 11:46am
I remember when

Just looking at the ‘Daily Sea Surface Temperatures, World’ graph and notice that the temperatures almost invariably peak at the end of March and reach their lowest point around mid-November.
So the Southern Hemisphere Summer warms the ocean but the Northern Summer cools it?
Why?
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December 30, 2024 9:47am
- NothingLeft
  
  Southern hemisphere has higher fraction of ocean (81%) than northern (61%), and oceans, with their very low albedo (~0.08) absorb more energy than land
  
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  December 30, 2024 10:25am
NeverMindTheBollocks

I remember when … there were so few beggars in Wellington that they had their own names – Blanket Man, Ruffo, Bucket Man.

How times change.
19 0
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December 30, 2024 10:07am
- Cassandra
  
  I lived in Wellington about 30 years ago. I often saw Bucket. There was another guy who walked and walked, all over the city to Newtown area.
  
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  December 30, 2024 10:25am
- PurplePen
  
  Have had reason to be in Newtown a lot lately, Wellington suburb. Quite a few regulars there. What would happen if they turned up in the Khandallah or Wadestown or Kelburn shops. I bet they’d be moved on pronto. So why are they not moved on in Newtown.
  
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  December 30, 2024 1:15pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Newtown is so vibrant, doncha know. All that diversity. Wadestown etc are so boring and monocultural. Why would any self-respecting dero want to go there?
    
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    December 30, 2024 6:04pm
Chuck Bird

Will the US under Trump take Greenland from Denmark or is it bluff.
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December 30, 2024 10:23am
- Cassandra
  
  It’s a bluff. Actually not even a bluff, just Trump musing.
  
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  December 30, 2024 10:27am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Humour. And socialists don’t get humour, so they get triggered and react.
    
    13 1
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    December 30, 2024 12:03pm
    - Steve Otto N Shore
      
      Be quiet and watch the fun! 🙂
      
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      December 30, 2024 6:20pm
- Graeme Hall
  
  Trump is right to stir this up. Greenland could be a wealthy booming place. It has very valuable rare earth deposits used in electronics yet is controlled by Greens who oppose mining. Denmark who oversees & financially supports the place seems reluctant to sort them out. For example, a listed company “Energy Transitions Limited” has satisfied all conditions to mine a patch after 10+ years & investing large amounts to satisfy the eco-bureaucracy yet it is still being blocked by ad-hoc regulation.
  
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  December 30, 2024 11:55am
- bennerg
  
  No, it’s Chess. Same with Gaza ….
  
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  December 30, 2024 11:55am
NothingLeft

Jimmy Carter dead at 100 (oldest ever for a former Potus by 6 years) . A thoroughly decent man, though ineffectual as president.
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December 30, 2024 10:24am
- David Garrett
  
  Nothing: I think your description of Carter is spot on. I am pretty sure nothing derogatory other than “ineffectual” will be said of him. It is also fair to note that he was defeated by Reagan, who although he was seen as something of a joke at time, history has come to regard as one of the better presidents of the last 50 years. He was certainly a far better communicator than Carter ever was.
  
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  December 30, 2024 10:44am
  - David Garrett
    
    For those interested, there is an excellent article about Carter and his presidency from the Washington Post linked to on Stuff.
    
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    December 30, 2024 10:50am
    - Jack5
      
      The Washington Post article reprinted in Stuff is a good political summing up.
      
      Add to that Jimmy Carter’s bravery, as a young submarine-engineer officer and early specialist in nuclear energy, leading the clean-up of a nuclear reactor meltdown in Canada.
      
      Carter and members of the team he led were separated into groups of three and lowered into the reactor for 90-second intervals to clean the site.
      
      It was estimated that a minute-and-a-half was the maximum time humans could be exposed to the levels of radiation present in the area.
      
      Carter’s urine was radioactive for six months after the successful clean-up of the reactor.
      
      Several members of his family, including his father, had died of cancer. At age 91 Carter’s own cancer broke out, but he lived on to 100.
      
      https://www.military.com/history/how-jimmy-carter-saved-canadian-nuclear-reactor-after-meltdown.html
      
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      December 30, 2024 11:03am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      I see that Jimmy was the first President from the Deep South since 1837. I assume that means from the old Confederacy, ie excludes LBJ / Texas.
      
      1 0
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      December 30, 2024 2:36pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    It’s often forgotten that Jimmy, by virtue of the Camp David meetings, facilitated the rapprochement between Israel and Egypt. No small feat.
    
    1 0
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    December 30, 2024 6:06pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  RIP Jimmy.
  
  Not the greatest President, but by far (in my view) the most effective post-President.
  
  0 1
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  December 30, 2024 1:37pm
- sungsamning
  
  RIP Mr President.
  
  2 0
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  December 30, 2024 2:25pm
- John Loveridge
  
  One of the few presidents whose post-presidential career earned him more respect than his time in the Oval Office.
  
  Not my cup of tea politically, but I had a great deal of respect for him as a man.
  
  RIP Jimmy.
  
  3 0
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  December 30, 2024 4:32pm
Pope Punctilious II

Oh dear, the luvvies at the BBC are fretting because “the growth of women in power grinds to a near-halt”
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy895l25gwxo
13 1
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December 30, 2024 10:38am
- imalwaysright
  
  Has anyone noticed that since unqualified women started getting the big jobs just because of their genitals and their politics, the world has descended into a shit show?
  
  22 3
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  December 30, 2024 11:08am
  - Paulus
    
    So now internationally- at least we led the way first.
    
    10 1
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    December 30, 2024 11:23am
  - JackRabbit
    
    And most sane women want to be led by a strong male type, in relationships, business and politics. It’s in the genetics. Sane women have no respect for a man that cannot lead.
    
    7 4
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    December 30, 2024 12:06pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      There are plenty of capable women who could have done those jobs well. Unfortunately their politics and ethics didn’t fit with the régime.
      “Diversity” leads to adversity.
      
      2 1
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      December 30, 2024 1:30pm
  - MCōs
    
    On the other hand all the major rat bags of recent times have been blokes
    
    4 11
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    December 30, 2024 12:22pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Thanks for pointing out that NZ’s biggest ratbag, Ardern, was a bloke.
      
      7 1
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      December 30, 2024 12:51pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Well apart from Jacinda Ardern, Kiri Tapu Allen, Gohlriz Gharaman, Darlene Tana, that other Green MP that went rogue (can’t remember her name, but she was dubbed the “rainbow parakeet”), Nicola Sturgeon, Elizabeth Holmes …
      
      8 1
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      December 30, 2024 2:40pm
      - MCōs
        
        None of those people are major world figures
        I’m talking about the major leaders who have had a malevolent influence on the course of world history, particularly since the beginning of last century
        
        1 1
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        December 30, 2024 5:00pm
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Replying to MCos: In that case your comment is meaningless, as until very recently 99 % of politicians were men.
        
        1 0
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        December 30, 2024 9:22pm
  - AitchW
    
    I suspect it’s got more to do with the mentals on
    social media organising with other mentals. Look at the rise of the trans movement, (who could forget the travesty of innuendo and sleaze that was the Olympic opening ceremony) the increasing influence of religious zealots of all stripes and, closer to home, Maori separatism.
    I really do hope that as the leftist governments are voted out things might improve with adults running more of the world.
    
    7 1
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    December 30, 2024 12:38pm
  - Burtland
    
    not sure that unqualified fully captures the problem
    – Jargose and Winklemann know exactly what they are doing
    
    2 0
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    December 30, 2024 1:44pm
- Don Beckett
  
  Good. the world has become so feminized, that men who would normally be reasonable are shown to be weak & emasculated. A reversal to a little more testosterone is needed, so that there is a balance.
  Take Milieu & Trump for example. 🙂
  
  10 1
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  December 30, 2024 11:15am
- mogg
  
  With the rise of Trump we are now getting a look behind the scenes at the ultra woke Dem party. The recent WSJ article has revealed a president who was never there. his aides say that during the Afghanistan evacuation he was unreachable and not returning calls. There are many other very serious allegations in the same article, this house of cards was kept secret from the American public by other
  senior elite/progressive Dems who were running the show. Kamala, Clinton’s, Obamas are all guilty of this long term deception. They were pushing BLM, CRT, mass immigration, Trans rights with no mandate. The Inflation reduction act cost the American economy $1 trillion and caused much higher inflation
  
  7 1
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  December 30, 2024 12:23pm
  - kowtow
    
    The media played a bigly role too.
    
    Any observer could see him bumbling around , lost at i’tnl meetings etc
    
    The WH press corps must have been in on it .And didn’t say a word .
    
    There’s a bigly story there too.They were part of a conspiracy against the American people.
    
    4 1
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    December 30, 2024 1:54pm
- Swifty
  
  It is the will of the people.
  
  2 0
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  December 30, 2024 1:51pm
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  Great that the US does not have a cackling President.
  
  0 2
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  December 30, 2024 6:29pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Another win for Magnus…

As a principle, I will definitely play in jeans tomorrow,” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/dec/29/magnus-carlsen-return-world-blitz-championship
13 0
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December 30, 2024 10:48am
Clyde

Remember Paul Holmes? This is what he wrote about Waitangi Day:

“Waitangi Day produced its usual hatred, rudeness, and violence against a clearly elected Prime Minister from a group of hateful, hate-fuelled weirdos who seem to exist in a perfect world of benefit provision. This enables them to blissfully continue to believe that New Zealand is the centre of the world, no one has to have a job and the Treaty is all that matters. I’m over Waitangi Day. It is repugnant. It’s a ghastly affair. As I lie in bed on Waitangi morning, I know that later that evening, the news will show us irrational Maori ghastliness with spitting, smugness, self-righteousness and the usual neurotic Maori politics, in which some bizarre new wrong we’ve never thought about will be lying on the table. This, we will have to address and somehow apply these never-defined principles of the Treaty of Waitangi because it is, apparently, the next big resentment. There’ll be lengthy discussion, we’ll end up paying the usual millions into the hands of the Maori aristocracy and God knows where it’ll go from there. Well, it’s a bullshit day, Waitangi. It’s a day of lies. It is loony Maori fringe self-denial day. It’s a day when everything is addressed, except the real stuff. Never mind the child stats, never mind the national truancy stats, never mind the hopeless failure of Maori to educate their children and stop them bashing their babies. No, it’s all the Pakeha’s fault. It’s all about hating whitey. Believe me, that’s what it looked like the other day. John Key speaks bravely about going there again. He should not go there again. It’s over. Forget it. It is too awful and nasty and common. It is no more New Zealand day than Halloween. Our national day is now Anzac Day. Anzac Day is a day of honour, and struggle, bravery and sacrifice. A day on which we celebrate the periods when our country embraced great efforts for international freedom and on which we weep for those who served and for those who died. I wouldn’t take my three great uncles who died at Gallipoli and in France – Reuben, Mathew and Leonard – to Waitangi Day and expect them to believe this was our national day. I wouldn’t take my father, veteran of El Alamein and Cassino, there. Nor would I take my Uncle Ken who died in a Wellington bomber, then try and tell him Waitangi Day was anything but filth. No, if Maori want Waitangi Day for themselves, let them have it. Let them go and raid a bit more kai moana than they need for the big, and feed themselves silly, speak of the injustices heaped upon them by the greedy Pakeha and work out new ways of bamboozling the Pakeha to come up with a few more millions.”

I can’t argue with him.
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December 30, 2024 11:01am
- David Garrett
  
  Clyde: that is a brilliant piece by Holmes…I didn’t think he was capable of such clear and profound thinking. And since his death, it has just got much worse.
  
  25 0
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  December 30, 2024 11:16am
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  I never liked the man, but what he wrote there is the glaring truth!
  
  13 3
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  December 30, 2024 12:09pm
  - MCōs
    
    So you liked his views when it suited you
    
    1 27
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    December 30, 2024 12:28pm
    - Flossie
      
      I’m sure it is not necessary to a) like everything a person says, or b) dislike everything a person says.
      
      18 0
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      December 30, 2024 12:46pm
    - AitchW
      
      Mcos, isn’t that how life works? This is a classic example of the binary, black and white world populated by anti oil, pro trans, pro Palestine zealots. If they disagree with just one thing someone says then they’re cancelled.
      It IS acceptable to agree with people on some things and disagree on others.
      I like Mike Hosking’s show and I agree with most of what he says. There are some of his opinions that I disagree with and that’s normal and healthy.
      The Hosk wouldn’t expect all of his listeners slavishly to agree with his every utterance.
      It’s the same with political parties. Anyone who throws their toys out of the cot because they disagree with one policy that their chosen party espouses is just dumb.
      Nobody has all the answers. Nobody is right on all topics all the time.
      
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      December 30, 2024 12:48pm
  - Cassandra
    
    I found him annoying but there’s no denying his skill as a TV presenter. He’s totally correct about Waitangi Day. Why do we bother? Awful rubbish with a whole lot of rude Maori grifters. If I was Seymour I’d go this time and tell them that that’s it – “I’ll come back when you all grow up”.
    
    11 0
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    December 30, 2024 1:20pm
- mogg
  
  Waitangi Day is NZ version of CRT, Labour, Greens,
  TPM are in it up to their necks.
  
  8 0
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  December 30, 2024 12:27pm
  - keepcalmcarryon
    
    You missed Chris Finlayson off your list.
    
    5 0
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    December 30, 2024 1:44pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    In a sane world Maori should be thanking the settlers for coming:
    
    More than double life expectancy.
    Peace.
    Plentiful good food.
    Wealth that more than half the world would envy.
    
    Much like a Thanksgiving Day.
    
    9 1
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    December 30, 2024 2:19pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      I’m pretty sure up until the academic quasi-marxist haters and wreckers emerged in the 1970’s, Maori leadership DID embrace the modernisation of NZ courtesy of British governance. Those of Maori heritage WERE steadily coming up in the world through training and education.
      
      3 0
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      December 30, 2024 6:14pm
- Inandout
  
  Clyde, he died some time after I understand so he probably didn’t give a stuff. I am surprised the Herald even dared to print this in 2015.
  
  3 0
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  December 30, 2024 1:03pm
- Jethrod
  
  But for the obvious name in the column, this could have been written yesterday!
  
  5 0
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  December 30, 2024 2:50pm
- trout
  
  @Clyde Without doubting the veracity of the Holmes article where and when was it published?
  
  3 0
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  December 30, 2024 4:00pm
greybeard

I see that “Stuff” has been reduced to repeating articles from up to 6 months ago.
Hardly “news”.

Their offerings today:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350332004/am-i-being-prude-mum-tests-water-g-string-bikini-ban-pool

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350452871/couple-who-tidied-neighbouring-reserve-forced-undo-backyard-do

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/360457414/once-thriving-22m-mask-company-1-reserve-sells-30200-leaving-former-owner-debt

https://www.stuff.co.nz/home-property/350341096/teenagers-buy-their-own-home-after-years-saving-their-supermarket-jobs
5 1
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December 30, 2024 2:38pm
- Ghost
  
  What’s wrong with them giving their favourite stories of the year?
  
  2 3
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  December 30, 2024 3:02pm
  - kevn
    
    Ghost… Just gap filling because some of their ‘productive journos’ will be on holiday.
    
    3 0
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    December 30, 2024 5:22pm
    - Ghost
      
      Yeah, it’s a yearly thing. Newshub used to do it. Herald does it.
      
      0 1
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      December 30, 2024 5:30pm
- JackRabbit
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/360457414/once-thriving-22m-mask-company-1-reserve-sells-30200-leaving-former-owner-debt
  
  When you invest in a business, the market for which is artificially boosted by a fake pandemic, what do you expect?
  
  Perhaps he should have invested in Tulips instead.
  
  5 1
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  December 30, 2024 3:49pm
  - greybeard
    
    Agreed. The only redeeming feature about this article is that there is no mention of a “Givealittle” page.
    
    3 1
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    December 30, 2024 4:33pm
- greybeard
  
  And another:
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350418755/new-chocolate-bar-kiwis-are-queuing-buy-thousands
  
  0 1
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  December 30, 2024 6:27pm
Chuck Bird

Tennis is suspended due to rain. Sun is one set down but is ahead 4 to 1 in the second set.
2 2
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December 30, 2024 2:48pm
- MCōs
  
  It’s about 14km to my place in sunny Mangere Bridge and there’s been no rain all day
  In the meantime play resumed and Lulu Sun lost in three sets
  
  2 0
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  December 30, 2024 5:13pm
NZer In Exile

Now that we know that the brain isn’t fully developed until age 26, shouldn’t the age of responsibility for many things be raised to 26 (especially voting)?

Benefits:
Lower road toll.
Less youth being sent to other people’s wars to be blown to bits before they’ve even lived some semblance of a life.
Less silly people in positions of power and influence generally.
Less silly and dangerous people voted into parliament.
A more rational society in general.
5 3
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December 30, 2024 4:09pm
- greybeard
  
  FEWER youth…
  FEWER silly people…
  FEWER silly and dangerous…..
  Come on DG, help me out here.
  
  6 1
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  December 30, 2024 6:11pm
  - AitchW
    
    English as she is spoke. It’s an uphill battle for those of us who love our mother tongue.
    
    1 0
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    December 30, 2024 7:31pm
  - RdM
    
    less, FEWER, I entirely agree. :=})
    
    My go to illustration (might find better resolution) –
    I’ve had better, this on a quick look again in haste.
    
    https://jackiebarrie.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/pedants-revolt.jpg
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasants%27_Revolt
    
    0 0
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    December 30, 2024 10:44pm
Ghost

The White House has identified a ninth U.S. telecom network that Chinese state hackers have compromised in a sweeping intrusion, a senior official said on Dec. 27, as authorities take steps to prevent similar cases of cyberespionage and hold the cyberattackers liable for their actions.

Article

I expect it will be far more globally than have been identified so far.
3 0
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December 30, 2024 4:32pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Yet the normies keep obstinately trusting these govt and private platforms (EG social media and big tech) to secure and keep private the vast array of data kept on them.
  
  2 0
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  December 30, 2024 6:19pm
Swifty

In this taxpayer-funded documentary – issues of intergenerational trauma are explored, including that ‘it is inherited’.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_83rJ8Bhr5w

I wonder whether this trauma is limited to that resulting from pakeha actions against Maori – or does it also result from actions by Maori against Maori?

My presumption is it would – but it’d be great if this was explained. A pity that this issue was not also explored.

I wonder when we’ll see taxpayer-funded documentaries on inherited and intergenerational trauma arising from actions by Maori against Maori?

Or is this just another partisan, political beatup – the likes of which we’ve seen hundreds of times over the last few decades – while our media and funding agencies have been steadfastly silent on Maori versus Maori atrocities and resultant trauma.
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December 30, 2024 4:46pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Just remember, Swifty, that Utu is a particularly Maori concept.
  
  I think you’ll find that utu is the manner in which Maori deal with intergenerational trauma.
  
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  December 30, 2024 6:10pm
Swifty

Trump – The Art of the Insult doco:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVt2stZeE_A

Bloody fantastic.
5 1
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December 30, 2024 5:12pm
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  OH boy. I will watch this later this evening.
  The speaker of the house wants me outside on the deck where the BBQ is going full steam.
  Thankyou Swifty.
  
  2 3
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  December 30, 2024 6:43pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360536466/beloved-and-talented-father-killed-fall-mattress-atop-moving-car
I posted about this yesterday.
I am so sorry for his family’s loss, but I cannot understand why he would do such a stupid childish thing, to put himself in danger and risk the future of his kids.
There is obviously more to be revealed about this event and I suspect that drugs and alcohol will play a big part.
Meanwhile he is being held up as some sort of saint.
Who played rugby, of course. Which excuses everything.
8 1
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December 30, 2024 6:24pm
- NothingLeft
  
  dulce est desipere in loco.
  -it is pleasant to act foolishly from time to time.
  
  People do dumb shit for a thrill. Drunk or stoned idiots dying after surfing on car roofs happens every few years in NZ.
  
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  December 31, 2024 1:15pm
NothingLeft

Global collapse in fertility rates, it’s waaaay worse than generally understood, with UN et al lying about it so as not to ‘scare the horses’:
https://youtu.be/TX5HQm0ZssU?t=145
1 0
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December 30, 2024 7:03pm
AitchW

At the risk of repeating myself, when will these ‘sling’ bowlers be called for what they are, chuckers.
0 0
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December 30, 2024 7:33pm
kevn

Any ideas how this should be handled? Sent [Mod – use correct names]in? With KFC? Firehose them off?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/at-least-seven-youths-climb-onto-roof-at-auckland-youth-justice-facility/OHNEU64P65FOHF6DR6HCGTILJY/
0 0
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December 30, 2024 8:37pm
AitchW

Firehouse, soak them then leave them for the night.
0 0
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December 30, 2024 9:13pm

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