General Debate 29 December 2024

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rouppe

Damien Grant starts out talking about how poor the economy is, and finishes with a few kicks in the nuts.

[ Mod : good stuff but cut and paste a bit overdone ]

Side note… Reefton.

There’s more, I’ll let you enjoy it.
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December 29, 2024 8:08am
- pdm
  
  Damien Grant is far and away the most objective Opinion Writer Stuff has.
  
  Perhaps that is why his columns are only once a week – he shows the rest up as biased lefties.
  
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  December 29, 2024 9:50am
- Damocles11
  
  He’s right in the money with his comments, and this country urgently needs to change course, but the woke / rent seeking establishment don’t want a bar of his truth. Many who style themselves as of ‘the right’ are patently not right wing at all, it just suits them to cosy up to National in order to steer policy and therefore money and power in the ‘correct’ direction.
  
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  December 29, 2024 10:21am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  He’s not wrong though is he?
  
  So NZ continues its inevitable slide into New Zimbabwe, where nobody can afford anything nice, but at least we will have eliminated climate change in our “net zero” future.
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:52am
- NothingLeft
  
  The chinese and US economies that are such a large part of our trade are by parts; dying and perhaps being walled off (Trump).
  
  NZ has massive current account deficit that has no hope of improving (still ~7% of GDP, or $30Billion a year more imports than exports). Inevitably that pushes NZD down making us poorer and poorer as a nation, with no hope of a turn around. The previous OECD prosperity that created valuable tourism isn’t coming back any time soon.
  
  Agriculture, Mining (fossil fuels) and Tourism are our only hopes of addressing foreign earnings, but are punished by regulatory burdens and barriers created by delusional industry hating lefties.
  
  And insanely bloated govt imposing ridiculously excessive legislative/regulatory costs on productive enterprises in NZ means no hope of climbing out of the deepening hole we are in. They can’t even see fit to cancel the racist wealth-transfer bullshit forced on us by racist parasitical left wingers over the last few decades – a luxury we can’t afford to keep indulging.
  
  The only protection you have now against NZ’s decline is to reduce assets held here by investing offshore, even if you can’t leave due to family.
  
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  December 29, 2024 2:24pm
Damocles11

Are we in a cyclical downturn, or are we on the precipice of something darker?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360533983/are-we-cyclical-downturn-or-something-darker

[ Mod : overdone cut and paste ]
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December 29, 2024 8:09am
- Keith White
  
  The is always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
  
  With the ethnic division and money-printing that the last government has left to fester and grow, I do not see NZ pulling out of the racial and financial death-spiral we are already in. The speed at which objects circle the drain is always slowest at the start, and always increases. Even children understand that when they get a parent’s coin to put in the spiral wishing well… you can wish for anything you want but you won’t get your coin back.
  
  NZ as we grew up in it and worked for it is gone forever, and its replacement will be / is already broke, strife-torn, over-regulated, criminal-cuddling and increasingly apartheid-favoring.
  
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  December 29, 2024 12:02pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Unless NZers wake up and vote for radical surgery to cure the invasive cancer/s the loony-left have foisted upon on NZ. Fortunately we see many examples of this already happening around the world.
    
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    December 30, 2024 4:51pm
Bridgenag

Very good post by El gatto

immigration, immigrants, and the american way of life
some thoughts on the sudden immigration conflagration

“in many parts of the world, “control the government so your group gets to control who gets free stuff” is the core process, understanding, and morality.”
“groups within the US (ostentatiously including many immigrants) are protected but not bound. law does not apply to them. they cheat, steal, rob, and murder. the system protects them, pays them, refuses to hold them to law or account. it’s your fault if they do bad things or bad things happen to them. they get special privileges, special entry, and mountains upon mountains of cash, free food, free housing, free phones, and free license. you sneak and and get your high value prize bag.”

““come and strive, it’s hard here” is different from “come and game the system, these people are chumps.””

https://open.substack.com/pub/boriquagato/p/immigration-immigrants-and-the-american?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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December 29, 2024 8:13am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  (ostentatiously including many immigrants)
  
  Did the meaning of ostentatious change while I was asleep?
  
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  December 29, 2024 9:04am
  - ChristopherW2
    
    It kind of works if you think of the ostentation being by those lavishly spending tax money on the illegal immigrants.
    
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    December 29, 2024 9:37am
  - newview
    
    I think she means ostensibly, (mainly) and just using mainly would be easier.
    
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    December 29, 2024 9:57am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Ostensibly means “apparently/allegedly so but not actually so”.
      
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      December 29, 2024 11:23am
  - cmm
    
    Maybe it has become one of those words where the meaning has been corrupted by the yoofs.
    
    eg. saying something is sick now means the same as saying it was cool when we were that old.
    
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    December 29, 2024 9:57am
Ipanema69

I dont know if Chris Luxon is planning on sending a gift to DJT as an inaguration present.

However I would suggest that Kim Dotcom wrapped up in a nice set of handcuffs would be ideal. It would lift NZ image with the Don considerably.
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December 29, 2024 8:13am
- AitchW
  
  Last I heard was that Dotcom was in hospital having experienced a severe stroke.
  Does anyone have any better, more recent information?
  
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  December 29, 2024 9:41am
  - peterwn
    
    The yanks can always send a ConAir plane with doctor on board to come and get him. They can give it a special flight number – Justice 1.
    
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    December 29, 2024 10:42am
  - NothingLeft
    
    He’s been pretty active on social media since that very convenient medical event. Perhaps not as debilitating as made out.
    
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    December 29, 2024 2:26pm
- Paulus
  
  Having had a serious stroke it is almost certain that he would not be allowed to fly – so the US should send a military ship to take him back.
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:11am
  - Keith White
    
    You can fly within 7-10 days after a stroke; sooner if your hygiene and mobility needs can be met inflight same as on the ground *and* you are provided with supplementary oxygen to offset the hypoxia of cabin altitude = the equivalent of getting a sudden altitude stress test at 8,000 feet ASL (above sea level).
    
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    December 29, 2024 12:05pm
Positan

After reading yesterday that cyclists’ injuries are costing ACC $100 million annually, I wondered whether that fact lay behind the proposal to increase motorcyclists’ ACC levies (collected via rego) from $400 annually to $500 in 2025 and $600 in 2026.

It seems to me that cyclists (of which I am one, as well as a motorcyclist of 60+ years standing) and especially mountain-bikers, should have to have their bikes registered and pay ACC levies as well.

As a careful rider I’ve never suffered either a motor-cycling-related or a cycling-related injury of any sort or any ACC claim for my activities. The country cannot afford such levels of ACC cover on the non-contributing – and especially not on the reckless.

Individual ACC cover should be compulsory on mountain-bike riders and all competitive riders.
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December 29, 2024 8:39am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Anything that travels on the public highway needs to be registered and taxed, including bikes and e-scooters.
  
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  December 29, 2024 9:34am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Anyone that travels on the public highway needs to understand the road code and/or obtain a license.
    
    To ride a moped you need to know the road code as part of obtaining a license, wear a helmet, and observe the road rules.
    
    To ride a scooter, often at speeds in excess of a moped, on the footpath or road, you do not need to know or obey the road rules, be licensed, or wear a helmet, can ignore traffic signals, and weave in and out of traffic?
    
    Where is the balance?
    
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    December 29, 2024 12:56pm
- All_on_Red
  
  You might be a careful rider Positan but the lane splitting I have seen by Motorcyclists on the Akld motorways in the last few days has been crazy- even in the pouring rain.
  Those guys are just waiting to be knocked off.
  Not sure how you could charge each bike Registration but perhaps if you ride at places like say Redwoods at Rotorua or even the Otago Rail Trail you should have to take out temporary Insurance.
  A bit like how I would like to see Trampers and Climbers in National Parks have to insure for the expense of rescuing them and any injury.
  
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  December 29, 2024 9:54am
  - G152
    
    Bikers have accidents and break their femurs. Not so tough then
    
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    December 29, 2024 10:18am
  - Peter S
    
    It is a hard no from me.
    
    This just shows the danger of wrong conclusions that you get from misuse or out of context statistics.
    
    Mountain biking in particular has a massive net positive effect on the health system that far outweighs the ACC cost (and many other wider economic positives).
    
    From personal experience, I have had a few minor injuries from mtb related activity, but far of setting that is the bp, cholesterol & diabetes medication it keeps me off (along with staving off the long term medical consequences of those conditions). Also it allows me to manage an old prolapsed disc (non mtb related) condition without resorting to physio.
    Add to that the mental health benefit of exercise and being out in nature.
    That is just the personal, but it goes beyond that.
    
    Yesterday in the Rotorua forest there would have been 150-200 using the shuttles alone. That includes families with young children, and many teens.
    In town, a good proportion of every cafes custom would have had a car with bikes on parked nearby.
    Sure, there are people who injur themselves, but it is only a small part of the picture.
    
    Alternately you could just put an acc levvy on pretty much everything. I dont go to the beach & swim in the sea often, so could argue for mandatory insurance for cover for those activities.
    We all have some things we do that have elevated risk profiles ( but avoid somecthings that others do). Either all need individual cover, or we spread the risks and cover each other to some extent.
    
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    December 29, 2024 11:06am
    - Taieri
      
      Fully concur with your post!
      
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      December 29, 2024 1:18pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    That is why certain motorcyclists are referred to as Short Term Citizens.
    
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    December 29, 2024 12:57pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Or as doctors joke ‘organ donors’
      
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      December 29, 2024 2:28pm
  - AitchW
    
    Lane splitting or filtering is just stupid. Whenever I need to go to Auckland I invariably end up parked or moving very slowly on the southern motorway. I’m often startled by motorcyclists filtering at speed. They often have their hazard lights on, I guess this makes them invincible in the same way that Lycra does for MAMILS on narrow rural roads.
    I used to ride a big bike till ACC charges became extortionate so I do have some idea about that of which I speak.
    
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    December 29, 2024 2:46pm
- PurplePen
  
  And yet a key programme from ACC for motorcycle accident prevention is an advert teaching non-motorcyclists to “look again, look again, look again” when turning left.
  
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  December 29, 2024 10:25am
- Jack5
  
  How much has the rise of electric bikes affected cycling injury costs?
  
  They are heavier and faster. That suggests worse potential injury risk to the riders and others.
  
  As a walker, I keep an eye out for 60’s plus e-bikers ripping along walking-cycling paths.
  
  Often they don’t look to have the stamina to push a conventional bike beyond brisk-walking speed.
  
  Add to that fire risk in recharging.
  
  Maybe e-bikes and e-scooters should be registered and contribute to ACC.
  
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  December 29, 2024 10:31am
  - Peter S
    
    I have recently shifted to an eMtb from conventional. I would say the injury risk difference is negligible (on tracks).
    
    One thing I have noticed is the increase in older and less fit using them. Again, you have to factor in the general health benefits in the overall equation.
    Yes, the acute cost goes up, but the chronic condition cost goes down, and chronic condition costs are usually the really expensive ones long term.
    Those older and less fit (for whom e bikes may be the only reason or avenue for exercise, and the lowest entry theshold) are exactly the ones that should be encouraged, because they are the most likely to get direct health benefits.
    
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    December 29, 2024 11:21am
    - All_on_Red
      
      I think you’re absolutely right about the health benefits for the older bikers.
      I see groups of Pensioners on the 9am Ferry (when it’s free on the Gold card!) from Devo to the City off for a ride regularly.
      But the point remains that there are over $100m in ACC claims
      So who is getting hurt and how?
      Btw- had a few days at Redwoods week before last. The youngest lost some skin on his forearm but that’s about it over several years. We have seen broken/dislocated arms/busted collar bones and some bad cuts though.
      
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      December 29, 2024 12:50pm
      - wsk12345
        
        I have mountain biked for 3 decades or more along with a multitude of other action sports. No significant or costly injuries. One concussion surfing, and a simple broken arm. However i did break a leg playing hide and seek as a kid and snapped an achilles doing the gardening. IME the apparently most dangerous activities often have the least injuries.
        
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        December 29, 2024 2:55pm
      - Peter S
        
        Good to hear that it was only grazes for your youngest.
        
        There has been a lot of talk about how kids are being bubble wrapped by overprotective parents.
        I think mountain biking is a great way of giving them a chance to learn physical skills and also the consequences of actions.
        Sure, there is a risk, but still usually much lower consequence than a potential motorbike or car crash a few years later.
        
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        December 29, 2024 3:35pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    We walk on a riverside track in PN. Cyclists – both e- and non-e- breeze past us at speed with no warning. When I am on a bike on the same track I always call “coming on your right” as I approach pedestrians. Seems to work – they normally move left. My wife has a bell on her bike and I have a hooter. They seem to work too.
    
    But generally the riders just breeze past us with no warning.
    
    Go figure …
    
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    December 29, 2024 3:45pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  How about rugby?
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:31am
Yvette

Treaty

Like a Dame Jacinda Ardern “national conversation”
Like everything else Labour didn’t deliver
Except they did deliver a mess the nation is now in …

[Ngāti Toa chief executive and rangatira Helmut] Modlik said Seymour should expect a robust response to his own passionate performance and theatre: “That’s the Pandora’s Box he’s opening”.
But it was Ardern, pressured by the Maori Caucus, who really opened Pandora’s Box
Seymour is actually striving to stuff stuff back in the Box.

“There’s a bit of context to all this,” Maipi-Clarke said on the podcast. “And it’s been building up for a year.
“I was like, ‘ugh, let’s just rip it up, it means nothing. And they were like ‘nah, nah, let’s not do that’. And I was like ‘honestly, the Treaty unites us and our country is known for having a beautiful partnership that most indigenous countries don’t have and let’s not give it [the Bill] the power.

“We had tried many different Point of Orders, we had tried to play their game, we tried the speeches, we tried taking it out, select committees – you name it.
“We were the last vote and I said, nah. Let’s try and take out their vote and let’s try and stop it without it passing. But really, let’s try and make the world see what’s going on here and actually, it’s not even our fight, it’s us as indigenous people, together.”

Seymour said it had generated interest and support for his bill.
“It’s clearly driving people to take an interest in the topic, which I regard as a really important milestone. It’s a discussion New Zealand needs to have.”
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/534187/video-te-pati-maori-mp-hana-rawhiti-maipi-clarke-reacts-to-haka-heard-around-the-world

“It’s a discussion New Zealand needs to have” – but the discussion is not taking place, is it?
It seems a bit like the “nation wide conversation” Jacinda Ardern wanted to have on Capital Gains Tax – without ever presenting her Government’s side or position of the discussion, so creating a void filled by mis- and dis-information before people actually gave such labels to click-bait talk.

So where is any Discussion?
Last Waitangi Day when both David Seymour and the now late Maori King were both present, there appeared to be a studious avoidance of any opportunity to talk ‘together’.
The apparent vast ‘unification’ of Maori was a feature, but unification for what – not it seems for korero, that “discussion New Zealand needs to have” was not to be had then, as it also wasn’t when one side of the conversation ripped up a copy of the bill and war danced around insulting those they could have been engaging with.

“Our country is known for having a beautiful partnership that most indigenous countries don’t have.”
Perhaps not so much any longer the envy of the world, after a few minutes of viral video has been viewed 700 million times.
And still a discussion waits. Maybe it will happen at Ratana or Waitangi this year
– or maybe not
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December 29, 2024 8:40am
- All_on_Red
  
  [Mod – debate the issues, not the people]
  
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  December 29, 2024 9:55am
  - All_on_Red
    
    It was a joke…
    Which 3 people obviously got.
    
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    December 29, 2024 10:05am
- pdm
  
  `So where is any Discussion?
  Last Waitangi Day when both David Seymour and the now late Maori King were both present, there appeared to be a studious avoidance of any opportunity to talk ‘together’.’
  
  David Seymour is prepared to talk.
  
  Maori Activists are only prepared to grandstand and promote disharmoney.
  
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  December 29, 2024 10:01am
  - artemisia
    
    Maori activists are driven by anger. But anger is generally considered to be just the presenting emotion, and it is what lies beneath that are the real drivers.
    
    A lot of accustomed lifestyles are now at risk of slip sliding away. That’s serious anxiety for those who have become the accustomed within recent memory. The shrinking magic money tree offers a clue.
    
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    December 29, 2024 10:16am
    - imalwaysright
      
      “Maori activists are driven by anger”
      
      They are driven by greed.
      They are angry because they don’t own everything.
      
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      December 29, 2024 10:46am
      - JackRabbit
        
        They are angry because they can’t steal everything. Those who oppose being stolen from are called racists.
        
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        December 29, 2024 12:59pm
  - AitchW
    
    Why would you debate the issues rationally when you can indulge in the attention seeking theatre of ripping up the bill and launching into an eye popping, tongue poking, finger pistolling haka?
    Far more popular with the activist followers.
    
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    December 29, 2024 10:50am
  - Paulus
    
    I see that the dreadful Herald keeps teling us that we are heavily against what ACT are trying to do and tell us.
    Biased – never !
    
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    December 29, 2024 1:24pm
- rouppe
  
  So on the one hand it’s “honestly, the Treaty unites us and our country is known for having a beautiful partnership that most indigenous countries don’t have” but then immediately it’s “but really, let’s try and make the world see what’s going on here and actually … it’s us as indigenous people, together.”
  
  Can’t be both…
  
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  December 29, 2024 10:11am
- Damocles11
  
  Good thing you didn’t overdo the cut and paste there Yvette, though it must have been a close run thing with several paragraphs cut and pasted in italics.
  
  [Maybe it had to do with the thoughtful analysis and discussion together – some posters appear to find this skill beyond their ability and become mere repeaters. mod.]
  
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  December 29, 2024 10:14am
  - Damocles11
    
    [Mod – if you’ve got nothing to say on Yvette‘s topic then stop trying to distract it]
    
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    December 29, 2024 11:57am
- PurplePen
  
  What’s an “indigenous country”. And I don’t think the performer in parliament, can’t recall her name just now, had any idea that her performance was for world- wide viewing. That was just an accidental benefit from her perspective that she now retrospectively touts. One more point, I saw a picture in X of a waka a sailing ship and a plane all arriving on NZ’s shore. There’s nothing indigenous to NZ about any of that.
  
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  December 29, 2024 10:32am
- Paulus
  
  And are they still only something like 16% of the population of New Zealand -a small minority, who think they are the vaste majority !
  Within 20 years we will be a good majority of Asian descent.
  People who work for their living and for their families and businesses, in a non Iwi way.
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:21am
Matt Long

An interesting YouTube video on how the PayPal company Honey scams referral fees from affiliate link purchases. The money involved is in the billions and for individual purchases also higher than I would have thought.
In one example if you uses Honey’s reward points scheme in purchasing a Nord VPN subscription, Honey gets US$45, and the customer gets 89 cents worth of reward points.
https://youtu.be/vc4yL3YTwWk?si=7vzS8bJkzlgn_8M1
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December 29, 2024 8:41am
judith8409121

Another interesting youtuber coffeezilla is breaking a story on underage gambling inside gaming – how gaming environments have used loopholes to expose children to gambling – https://www.si.com/esports/news/coffeezilla-calls-out-valve-in-latest-cs-go-gambling-expose

worth watching the channel if you have children playing any of these games – or even if your interested in how these loopholes are being used
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December 29, 2024 8:55am
- pdm
  
  I was about 16 when I started going to the TAB on a Saturday Morning and having a `couple of 5 bob Doubles’. Spending my own earned money
  
  Win, place and doubles being the only options in those days.
  
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  December 29, 2024 10:04am
  - peterwn
    
    And the minimum bet was 10 shillings (I think) back then which was a helluva lot of money.
    
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    December 29, 2024 10:48am
judith8409121

new word to enter the lexicon gaza-lighting
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Gazalighting
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December 29, 2024 8:59am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Leftie shill flounces out of the room, in protest at Elon Musk’s guest opinion piece. This gem caught my eye.

“The portrayal of the AfD as right-wing extremist is clearly false, considering that Alice Weidel, the party’s leader, has a same-sex partner from Sri Lanka! Does that sound like Hitler to you? Please!” Musk said in the piece.

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/537767/musk-writes-opinion-piece-for-german-newspaper-backing-far-right-party-adf-editor-resigns
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December 29, 2024 9:10am
- NothingLeft
  
  So Hitler’s missus was Brawn, and Weidel’s missus is Brown. Scarily similar!
  
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  December 29, 2024 2:36pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  I know a couple of Gen-X Germans. Each from different parts of Germany. Both reasonably highly educated. They are both terrified of anything to the right of Stalin. They are not like the idiot lefties of NZ, Aus, Canada, US, & UK (way more common sense generally) but it’s obvious that they’ve had it drummed into them from birth that anything not left wing politically is heading into Nazi territory.
  
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  December 30, 2024 3:03pm
Cassandra

From Politico, a liberal e newsletter: “If Europe – and its economic powerhouse Germany – remains on its current trajectory, its future, Politico says, will also be Italian: that of a decaying, if beautiful, debt-ridden, open-air museum for American and Chinese tourists”.
This is attributed to an act of suicide, the sacrifice of German industry on the altar of the Goddess Gaia. Coupled with recent research showing that CO2 is far from being the villain asserted by Chloe, we can now safely say that hogwash should be replaced by responsible self-interest. The best green is the one which precedes back.
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December 29, 2024 9:26am
- AitchW
  
  We can only hope that as the easily ignored trickle of studies disproving CO2 as a planet killer becomes a torrent the chattering classes will move on to a shiny new cause and forget about emissions schemes etc.
  Or is it already too late to drill baby , drill?
  
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  December 29, 2024 9:38am
  - Steve Otto N Shore
    
    Never too late to drill baby, drill.
    Plastic is needed. Credit card? Cellphone, TV, cookware, perspex, PVC,
    Asphalt, bitumen, shaving cream, grease, perfume, cosmetics, fishing rods (important!) Fiberglass resin. There are over 6000 products.
    
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    December 29, 2024 11:41am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Fertiliser
      
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      December 29, 2024 12:36pm
    - AitchW
      
      Not to mention petrol, diesel, jet fuel, natural gas, bunker fuel, bitumen.
      
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      December 29, 2024 2:48pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Life saving medicines.
        
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        December 30, 2024 3:04pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Germany is screwed.
  ‘More than 60% of the people in Germany who depend on government benefits for income are foreign-born or are second-generation migrants. Noncitizens, who make up 15% of the population, perpetrated 41% of all crimes in 2023, up from 28.7% in 2014, according to police statistics. . .’
  https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2024/12/the-daily-chart-the-wages-of-merkel.php
  Add to this high energy costs and industry closing they are on a downward spiral.
  Italy is holding up but whats notable is the alliance being formed between Poland, Sweden, Finland and other Baltic States.
  
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  December 29, 2024 10:04am
  - Paulus
    
    Well done Merkel !
    
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    December 29, 2024 11:23am
  - Keith White
    
    “Noncitizens, who make up 15% of the population, perpetrated 41% of all crimes in 2023, up from 28.7% in 2014, according to police statistics. . .’”
    
    …and another 40% of all crimes are committed by foreign-born ‘citizens’.
    
    In the future, any group getting merkeled will be a euphemism for being totally screwed over.
    
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    December 29, 2024 12:14pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Denmark is one of only European countries that publishes data on crime by ethnicity (somehow overcoming elite’s efforts to gaslight population), and of course the data conforms to expectations:
    https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/non-western-immigrants-commit-one-third-of-rapes-and-violent-crimes-in-denmark/
    
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    December 29, 2024 2:40pm
alwyn.a

“‘More than 60% of the people in Germany who depend on government benefits …. ”
I was curious and checked whether these sort of statistics applied in other countries.
Yep. Convicted felon, and tax cheat ,Donald Trump is a second generation migrant.
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December 29, 2024 10:13am
- Allan
  
  Do tell, what is the felony that Trump has been convicted of?
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:46am
  - alwyn.a
    
    There was only one felon.
    There were in fact 34 felonies. You can see them all here.
    https://www.npr.org/2024/05/30/g-s1-1848/trump-hush-money-trial-34-counts
    
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    December 29, 2024 12:22pm
    - Allan
      
      Until the Judge passes sentence he is not convicted.
      
      Legal nicety but facts matter.
      
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      December 29, 2024 1:23pm
      - fernglas
        
        In the U.S. legal system, a defendant is considered convicted upon a guilty verdict; sentencing determines the penalties for those convictions.
        
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        December 29, 2024 6:54pm
      - Allan
        
        and this is the US legal system that states this fact.
        
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        December 29, 2024 10:26pm
      - Ghost
        
        Fernglas is correct. Conviction is when you are found guilty, which is what has happened. Sentencing is separate and can only take place once you have been convicted of a crime.
        
        Also worth adding this bit
        
        President-elect Donald Trump’s felony conviction will stand for now, a New York judge ruled on Monday, Dec. 16.
        
        Article
        
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        December 29, 2024 10:49pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Uhuh
      And the Crime upon which the prosecution was based was not actually a Crime. Again not as simple as you make out but no doubt good enough to fool TDS sufferers.
      As I said, it will be thrown out on Appeal. That Judge might be in trouble too.
      https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/05/acquit-trump-in-the-hush-money-case/
      ‘Bragg’s indictment failed to perform its basic constitutional function of putting the defendant on notice of the charges. The false-business-records charge against Trump requires proof that he aimed to conceal another crime. The prosecution waited until its closing argument — after the defense had rested its case and could not respond — to disclose definitively and emphatically that the other crime was violating federal campaign-finance law.
      
      Bragg’s overarching theory is that Trump defrauded the voters of information about an affair he is alleged to have had in 2006 with porn star Stormy Daniels. But concealing bad things during an election isn’t a crime, and none of the business records at issue were created until after the election.
      
      Bragg, notorious for pleading felonies down to misdemeanors, has, in the case of Trump, taken a trifling case of dodgy accounting that may not even be a misdemeanor and inflated it into 34 felony counts of business-records falsification — for a combined statutory penalty of up to 136 years’ imprisonment. This legerdemain enabled Bragg to circumvent the two-year misdemeanor statute of limitations — in other words, the time to charge this stale case, which is based on seven-year-old bookkeeping entries, lapsed in 2019.’
      Pretty dodgy prosecution eh.
      BTW- National Review arent fans of Trump
      
      Speaking of dodgy. Whats the bet that E Jean Carroll ends up owing Trump millions for her false claims too.
      I see Stormy Daniels still hasnt paid Trump what the Courts said she has to.
      
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      December 29, 2024 1:26pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Nah. Just another scummy “get Trump” operation from the Dem-scumbag machine.
      
      Prosecutorial Magic: Creating 34 Felonies Against Trump Out Of One Alleged Misdemeanor:
      
      https://salemnewschannel.com/watch/prosecutorial-magic-creating-34-felonies-against-trump-out-of-one-alleged-misdemeanor-65f1cd62f6dd1500019a8b4f
      
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      December 30, 2024 3:25pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        This link is the same video with out the scumbag tracking on the end:
        
        https://hughhewitt.com/video/prosecutorial-magic-creating-34-felonies-against-trump-out-of-one-alleged-misdemeanor
        
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        December 30, 2024 3:34pm
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  What does Trump have to do with the price of fish?
  You been watching TV1 network news again?
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:47am
  - alwyn.a
    
    “What does Trump have to do with the price of fish?”
    Quite a lot actually, at least once he gets back in the Big House.
    Somewhere between 62% and 65% of the seafood sold in the US is imported. That will all go up in price by a lot when the economic illiterate manages to raise the tariffs.
    Tough on the people who live there but c’est la vie.
    
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    December 29, 2024 12:30pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Trump is transactional. He makes threats to influence Policy.Already we are seeing Canada give way to avoid Tariffs. So likely Canada wont get hit. Governor Trudeau rushed to Mar a Lago to kiss ass as soon as he could.
      And its not as simple as you make out.
      ‘But many in the commercial fishing and seafood processing industries said they are excited for Trump’s second presidency. They said they expect he’ll allow fishing in protected areas as he did in his first presidency, crack down on offshore wind expansion and cut back regulations they describe as burdensome. And they expect a marked shift from the administration of President Joe Biden, who prioritized ocean conservation and championed wind power from the start.’
      The cost of Regulation and excluding Fisherman from ever expanding Wind Farm zones has already hurt the fishing industry.
      https://spectrumlocalnews.com/me/maine/business/2024/12/16/some-in-seafood-industry-see-trump-as-fishermen-s-friend–but-tariffs-could-make-for-pricier-fish
      Bonus
      ‘A Georgia appellate court Thursday disqualified Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis and removed her from prosecuting Donald Trump and co-defendants in a case she brought over his efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
      
      The decision is likely to cripple the case and bring a halt to the efforts to try Trump and his allies for their efforts to overturn his loss. Federal prosecutors have already dropped Trump’s federal criminal case related to the 2020 election in the wake of his winning the presidency.’
      https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/appeals-court-disqualifies-fani-willis-trump-georgia-case-rcna184844
      
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      December 29, 2024 1:03pm
      - Steve Otto N Shore
        
        Trump is a businessman, not a Politician. That is why he will MAGA!
        Same goes with Elon Musk. Clean out the bloated Public Sector, just like he cleaned up his own businesses.
        
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        December 29, 2024 1:59pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Not sure that Conviction is going to stick on Appeal-what happened to all the other cases? Lol
  But look on the bright side alwyn, at least Trump is living rent free in the heads of TDS sufferers.
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:47am
MCōs

Yesterday we went to the Auckland Botanical Gardens for a bit of a walk round.
Otherwise I watched cricket including the dismissal these chaps are so distraught about
https://x.com/jimmaxcricket/status/1873111255277584638?s=61&t=yFkzCNMWRCaVt1p5eRxUog
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December 29, 2024 10:15am
Steve Otto N Shore

Biden’s Nap Delays Gold Star Families Meeting.
I suggest Biden is such a coward he did not want to meet with them, hoping that after a 3 hour nap they would have gone away.
He never gave a shit about US Military. In stark contrast Trump visited the Gold Star Families personally as well as publicly.

You have 21 days Joe, pack your shit!

https://patriotpowerednetwork.com/bidens-nap-delays-gold-star-families-meeting-sparking-outrage-and-incompetence-criticism/?
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December 29, 2024 10:17am
- MCōs
  
  During WWII around 11,700 Kiwi servicemen died including my uncle. I have somewhere a letter my grandparents received saying sorry and here’s his stuff. Sign the detachable receipt at the bottom and return
  They never did.
  Earlier they’d received a short letter from his squadron leader to say he was missing. Later they received a handwritten letter from his wife saying how popular he was on the base with his sense of humour and funny accent.
  Dad said that the mayor of Timaru went up to Chch to welcome every contingent of boys that sailed home on the ferry from Wellington.
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:04am
  - Steve Otto N Shore
    
    Out of 5 males in my father’s family only two served overseas (Pacific Defence) Dad was in the Army Home Guard as a driver taking Americans all over Auckland.
    The other two Uncles stayed on the family dairy farm in Reporoa.
    
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    December 29, 2024 2:07pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Whats your point Steve?
      
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      December 29, 2024 5:53pm
      - Steve Otto N Shore
        
        Reply to MCos
        
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        December 29, 2024 7:37pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Maggie Thatcher wrote a personal letter to the families of each person killed in the Falklands. She cried her eyes out as she wrote each one.
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:17am
- AitchW
  
  I think he’s already packed his bags. Or Jill has done it for him. He checked out the moment Harris took over from him in the election. Not that he ever really knew that he was running.
  
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  December 29, 2024 2:51pm
kevn

Career move…
https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/world/ex-nato-boss-made-head-of-bilderberg-group/
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December 29, 2024 10:26am
Damocles11

Our establishment elites will eventually suffer the cost of their vile mixture of apathetic intransigence and active collusion with the Left, they will find out what it’s like to be a wealthy person in the ‘New Venezuela’ of the South Pacific with a collapsing currency, moribund economy, and the erosion of democracy and private property rights making New Zealand undesirable as a place to live and a place to invest. As the house of cards implodes in on itself our already creaking public services will become truly 3rd World in their quality. What a legacy to leave future generations!
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December 29, 2024 10:41am
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  We need Musk and Ramaswamy to clean out the bloated Public Sector.
  Probably fire 50% of them and not notice any difference.
  Not just the Govt, but Councils and outfits like Auckland Transport and Watercare.
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:51am
  - Ian Boag
    
    If you are cleaning out bloated overspend it’s hard to ignore the fact that anyone over 65 with a pulse gets free money whether they have other income or not. Roughly half of the social welfare budget.
    
    Income testing elective surgery might be another place to start too. Go buy yourself a shoulder fix.
    
    But of course you have paid into the scheme for the last umpty years ….. not.
    
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    December 29, 2024 1:03pm
    - wsk12345
      
      Thanks Ian but I’d rather we start with people who are able to work but choose not to.
      
      The government seems to have started on this:
      An acquaintance of mine was recently audited and pushed into full time work by mSD after they caught her out collecting $900 pw on the benefit and an additional ~500 pw under the table. Good and about time, why should she hve a cushy life working only 15 hours a week (with teenagers who can help at home) while many of us work 40+ to pay for it.
      
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      December 29, 2024 3:06pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        No problem with that. It’s not an either-or thing. Just if you want to make the biggest difference as quickly as possible, you start with the biggest target.
        
        Benefit bludging like you describe is a bad thing and should be dealt to. One assumes that the under-the-table thing would have been picked up by someone dobbing her in …. hard to pick up any other way. But we don’t seem to regard cashies as theft …
        
        Benefits are normally abated when you earn something – at anything over $200/week (?) or so it is all gone I think. The pension is paid by today’s workers supporting today’s pensioners. Just like jobseeker and all th other benefits. I see no reason why this benefit (pension) should not be treated the same way as all the others ….
        
        In some cases the beneficiaries (pensioners) are earning more money than most of the workers who support them. So why should they have a cushy life subsidised by the efforts of those working 40+ hours/week to support them?
        
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        December 29, 2024 3:23pm
      - artemisia
        
        “Under the table”. Common estimate of New Zealand’s black and grey economy – over 10% of GDP. So could be well north of $30Bill a year.
        
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        December 29, 2024 4:34pm
      - Dave
        
        An uptick from me for Ian Boag @ 3.23
        
        BUT…
        
        For much of my career (all pre-KiwiSaver) I saved for the future, my own and my children, and particularly in the last fifteen years upgraded my skills and changed my job somewhat, as well as living fairly plainly, just so I would have much more than super to live on.
        
        So, by how much can super be abated and medical costs transferred to superannuitants before their pre-retirement earning and saving behaviour changes to spending rather than saving and working more productively?
        
        In two weeks time, on a sort of related note, I expect my oncologist to ask me if I wish to supplement my current tax-payer supported drug with a beneficial drug (but not supported by Pharmac in my current condition) at my own cost of about $1000 per month. It’s nice to have the money to be able to freely choose whether to spend it on myself (undoubtedly with side effects) or leave it for my heirs. Without Super, this could be a more one-sided decision.
        
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        December 29, 2024 6:08pm
      - Steve Otto N Shore
        
        So dumb Boag. Do you really think that people doing cash jobs will declare it?
        Oh, excuse me Govt, I have this money from a mate and I want to pay TAX on it!
        
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        December 29, 2024 7:43pm
    - Fender
      
      you have obviously already pulled yourself from any of these benefits and the NZ people thank you for your leadership and unselfish act. Long may you enjoy your freedom to be superior to the masses.
      
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      December 29, 2024 8:25pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Nope. I haven’t “pulled myself from benefits” whatever that means. I collect my super and what I do with it is nobody’s business. Happy to be a benefit bludger so long as the law says it’s OK.
        
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        December 29, 2024 8:57pm
      - Ghost
        
        He’s a question for you. The deputy prime minister is currently receiving the pension, he’s also on a wage of $344,100 per year as deputy pm. Do you think a millionaire on a decent wage should be able to get the pension. Or perhaps that we target the pension at those who actually do need it and give them better support so that they aren’t struggling with power in winter, going without food, missing out of medication they can’t afford.
        
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        December 29, 2024 8:59pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Targeted assistance makes more sense Ghost IMHO. Especially for a country that doesn’t have a decent enough sized economy to build and maintain first world infrastructure and services. Less waste also.
        
        Cheap but solid basic public housing should also be built. Civilized oldies should not be placed next door to feral dickheads and vice versa. Proven feral dickheads should be placed in heavily policed purpose built accommodation.
        
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        December 30, 2024 5:00pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Got a (prosperous) family member with a kid off to uni who they will support. But will take the max interest-free student loan and stick it in a term deposit. Legal ? – certainly. Ethical ? – make your own call … Them 40+ hours people helping out again …
        
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        December 30, 2024 8:06pm
imalwaysright

Trump wants US out of the WHO.
Great news, no more scamdemics.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-transition-team-plans-immediate-who-withdrawal-expert-says-2024-12-23/
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December 29, 2024 10:49am
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  “The US can not be safe unless the rest of the World is safe” Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus. What a crock of shit that is.
  US also needs to dump the UN and NATO. Why should the US Taxpayer be funding these freeloaders. They do nothing in return.
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:58am
cmm

Almost 2 years ago, Melissa Lee posted a scathing piece in KB about the weakness of the NZ IT sector as well as an aspiration that National would fix the problems.

Unfortunately nothing has improved since then. If anything the situation has only got worse.

“National cares deeply about the future of New Zealand’s Digital economy and it is my priority as National’s Spokesperson to champion every aspect of the Digital sector in our economy.”

Sorry, I am not seeing it.

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2022/01/guest_post_digital_skills_shortages_a_blight_of_new_zealands_tech_sector.html
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December 29, 2024 10:50am
kevn

cmm… She has been a bit of a fizzer politically. I met her a few years ago and thought she had potential. Not sure what happened. We know it must be a zoo down there but all the same, she seemed capable of handling it. Back then.
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December 29, 2024 11:10am
- cmm
  
  I am not really worried about Ms Lee’s political ability or her interests one way or the other. I am more concerned about what anyone is actually doing to sort this mess out.
  
  As I wrote at the time, I thought this is not particularly an IT problem. Exactly the same underlying problems are why we fail to retain all skilled staff (medical, engineering, management etc) and fail to recruit others from abroad.
  
  Apart from career-specific stuff, basic stuff is important – such as fixing crime and education.
  
  In 1992 when we came to NZ on the points system, NZ rolled out the red carpet (albeit a slightly moth eaten red carpet). As soon as out passports were stamped at the airport we were freshly minted Permanent Residents.
  
  Now skilled people get treated rather poorly. It takes years to reach PR status.
  
  Skilled people have options. They will go where they are appreciated.
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:26am
- Jack5
  
  Melissa Lee wrote a guest article in Kiwiblog a year or two back on how the State-owned and State subsidised news media could in effect be “de-biased”.
  
  Luxon dumped her from the Coalition news media role and replaced her with Paul Goldsmith, backed by Jenny Marcroft, of NZ First, as Under-Secretary.
  
  They seem to have done bugger-all on news media except make a couple of board appointments.
  
  Was Melissa Lee a scapegoat for lack of will by the Coalition (or lack of consensus within the Coalition) to make a stand on State media ownership and subsidies?
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:36am
Jack5

The Eagle has landed … in the poop

New Zealand’s not responsible for the Cook Islands-registered tanker seized by Finland on suspicion of sabotaging power and internet cables.

That’s the reaction of our Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) to Finland’s arrest of the Cook Islands-registered Eagle S.

However, a Waikato law professor says it’s a bad look for NZ.

Radio NZ reports an MFAT spokesperson says the Ministry was aware of the incident but NZ was not responsible for the management of the Cook Islands shipping registry.

Here’s the CIA World Factbook description of the political ties of the Cook Islands with NZ:

” …. self-governing in free association with New Zealand; Cook Islands is fully responsible for internal affairs; New Zealand retains responsibility for external affairs and defense in consultation with the Cook Islands.”

The ties are being tested at present by Cook Islands seeking to issues its own passports while retaining full ties with NZ. This has been rejected by NZ’s Foreign Minister, Winston Peters.

MFAT says NZ not responsible:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/537735/new-zealand-not-responsible-for-ship-seized-by-finland-mfat

AND

“Bad look for NZ” – law professor:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/537768/seizure-of-cook-islands-registered-ship-over-alleged-sabotage-creates-a-bad-look-for-nz-expert

AND, BONUS –

NZ gives Cook Islands $30.5 million (seven months ago):

https://www.cookislandsnews.com/internal/national/regional/economy/new-zealand/nz-commits-20m-to-cook-islands-budget-10-5m-for-public-service/
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December 29, 2024 11:13am
- Cassandra
  
  NZ can call the shots if it (Winston) wants to. Allowing the Cook Islands to permit this sort of thing is dopey and absolutely not in NZ’s interests. As the holder of the purse strings NZ has the final say.
  
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  December 29, 2024 11:50am
  - Paulus
    
    Yes, old expression
    “he who pays the piper calls the tune”.
    
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    December 29, 2024 1:30pm
- Keith White
  
  The Waikato law professor is hardly a disinterested commentator. He has published form…
  
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  December 29, 2024 12:19pm
  - Paulus
    
    Nah, how can you comment, we hear every day from experts in everything, as chosed by the media for their opposing anything views first, and guess what they are University jerks and highly paid too.
    Crap merchants, and there are many of them in New Zealand, for the media to find the ones they want us to hear.
    
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    December 29, 2024 1:33pm
- PurplePen
  
  Maybe the Cooks lie about the contents of their register.. for cash.
  
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  December 29, 2024 12:23pm
- PurplePen
  
  A bit off topic, but how come with the vocal anti-colonialists the Cooks haven’t yet thought to have their name changed. Just musing. Are they right rather than woke left or the movement hasn’t reached them yet.
  
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  December 29, 2024 12:26pm
  - Paulus
    
    Money, I suspect !
    
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    December 29, 2024 1:33pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    They have…
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/420385/renewed-calls-for-the-cook-islands-to-take-on-indigenous-name
    
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    December 29, 2024 1:43pm
    - greybeard
      
      You always seem to be one-up on the rest of us Maggy: come on, how the hell do you do it ?
      
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      December 29, 2024 2:20pm
- All_on_Red
  
  They found lots of Spy equipment on that ship when they raided it.
  Oops
  https://www.lloydslist.com/LL1151955/Russia-linked-cable-cutting-tanker-seized-by-Finland-was-loaded-with-spying-equipment
  The Cooks probably need to De-Register it.
  
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  December 29, 2024 1:09pm
  - AitchW
    
    I wonder if legally they can. Have the owners, by having “spying equipment” on the ship, committed any crime or breached the terms of their registration?
    I’d have thought that as long as it complied with labour and SOLAS rules and wasn’t involved in smuggling or piracy then the Cooks have no right to deregister the vessel.
    Perhaps one of our old salts might be able to shed some light?
    
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    December 29, 2024 2:07pm
- Taieri
  
  New Zealand’s not responsible for the Cook Islands-registered tanker seized by Finland on suspicion of sabotaging power and internet cables.
  ————–
  
  Why should it be responsible?
  
  “The Cook Islands is self-governing while in free association with New Zealand. Since the start of the 21st century, the Cook Islands has directed its own independent foreign and defence policy, and also has its own customs regulations”
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_Islands
  
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  December 29, 2024 1:27pm
  - Jack5
    
    Section 5 of NZ’s Cook Islands Constitution Act 1964
    
    External affairs and defence
    
    Nothing in this Act or in the Constitution shall affect the responsibilities of Her Majesty the Queen in right of New Zealand for the external affairs and defence of the Cook Islands, those responsibilities to be discharged after consultation by the Prime Minister of New Zealand with the Premier of the Cook Islands.
    
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    December 29, 2024 9:45pm
Steve Otto N Shore

Venezuelan gang members arrested in raid next to a daycare.
“The ultra-violent Venezuelan prison gang Tren de Aragua infiltrated the country after President Joe Biden rolled out the welcome mat for illegal aliens at the southern border.”

https://patriotpulse.net/trumps-border-czar-was-ready-for-war-after-this-scary-arrest-next-to-a-daycare/?
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December 29, 2024 12:18pm
Ghost

Well that will be one version not worth watching.

Amazon Slammed For Editing Classic Christmas Movie

In the movie, the main character, George Bailey, played by Jimmy Stewart, tells his guardian angel, Clarence, that it would’ve been better for everyone if he had never been born. After that, Clarence shows him the dark and depressing world without Bailey to show him that his life matters and positively affects many people. After that, Bailey abandons the idea of committing suicide and returns home to his family and friends.

Article
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December 29, 2024 12:33pm
Swifty

I played a role in managing the Y2K assuredness of one of New Zealand’s larger telcos.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/537759/inside-rnz-on-the-night-of-y2k

I saw first hand and in great detail what would have happened if that telco would have entered the new millennium with their systems unchanged.

It would have been a great bloody mess. Services dropped, bugs by the hundreds in critical systems, billing a great bloody disaster and revenue lost – and which would have taken months and months and months to fix and sort it all out.

Not a bad story from RNZ, but with the obligatory reference to it all being a con by consultants.

I challenge RNZ to find one person who actually participated in Y2K preparedness, and in some detail for specific companies, to come out and say it was all a con.

They won’t find one. Well, not a sane one anyway.
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December 29, 2024 1:37pm
- artemisia
  
  I was also on the Y2K project for a large organisation, and present on the night as well. You are correct Swifty, some of the remediation may have been lower priority but plenty would have caused serious chaos if not dealt with. As it was, some issues did occur but not major and dealt with quickly.
  
  People who say it was not needed, a con, do not understand what was required and why.
  
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  December 29, 2024 3:46pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  Same here Swifty, in between other IT projects and across both the USA from 1996 on and 1999 here in NZ.
  
  The funny thing was that I was in Chicago when it all happened so got up around 5am and sat down to watch one of the main TV broadcasters who actually had a crew in NZ to give live coverage of what was happening in the first country in the world to hit Y2K. The broadcast was live of course and their reporter was standing out in front of the Beehive pointing out that the lights were still on at 12:01am NZ time.
  
  I went back to bed but had some fun conversations the next day with Americans I’d worked with on Y2k stuff. Truth be told it the was the Yanks who were more exposed than NZ because they tend to run their IT systems a lot longer than we do: we found a lot of Y2K bugs over the years.
  
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  December 29, 2024 4:10pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    In the US, there’s still a career in COBOL.
    
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    December 29, 2024 8:14pm
Steve Otto N Shore

Elon Musk plans to buy ABC. There will be a few radical lefties getting the DCM.
David Muir, look over your left shoulder. Musk is there, with you in the crosshairs!

https://frontbulletin.com/elon-musk-plans-to-buy-abc-vows-to-fire-david-muir-and-revamp-the-network/?
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December 29, 2024 2:15pm
- Ghost
  
  No, it’s just you follow a lot of junk bullshit sites that publish things that have never been said or happened.
  
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  December 29, 2024 2:23pm
  - Steve Otto N Shore
    
    Yes Ghost, whatever you think Ghost.
    DILLIGAF?
    
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    December 29, 2024 7:35pm
    - Ghost
      
      If you want to look like an idiot go for it. But this is just more bullshit that you post. Elon is not looking at buying it. It started as a rumour in September or October on social media, he has never said he is. But hey you keep believing the shit you post.
      
      People should be very careful of the links you post to fake alternative news sites.
      
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      December 29, 2024 7:48pm
- artemisia
  
  SO, any thoughts about how X is doing with a quarter of the staff? Seems to be busy, may not make a profit as yet but the new headcount must be helping, even taking into account the Trump exodus. Betcha some of those have quietly crept back.
  
  Still I don’t suppose Mr Musk is too bothered esp now he has joined the tiny group known to the world by first name.
  
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  December 29, 2024 3:52pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360535878/man-dead-after-napier-vehicle-incident-friday-evening
A GROWN MAN in an unknown condition rides on a mattress on the top of a car driven by God-knows who, who is also in an unknown condition: the inevitable happens.
Should anyone really care ?
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December 29, 2024 2:24pm
Steve Otto N Shore

4 Reasons Why Maori Think They Deserve Special Status.

This is from Julian Batchelor’s ‘Stop Co-Governance Youtube channel.’
[Mod – unnecessary]
Video, 19 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1ED-CdbHpg

The Document referred to:

https://issuu.com/esisite/docs/how_to_we_know_maori_ceded_sovereignty?
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December 29, 2024 2:27pm
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  Two posts disappeared before the Dec 19th one Mod.
  
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  December 29, 2024 3:25pm

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