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December 19, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 19 December 2024

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Yvette

Open Letter to King Charles III – From the National Iwi Chairs Forum and Ngā Rangatira o Aotearoa/Te Waipounamu

Tēnā koe e te Kingi Charles,
[…] We wish to raise a constitutional matter. In 1840, your ancestor Queen Victoria negotiated Te Tiriti o Waitangi with our Rangatira (leaders) ancestors. Through our Rangatira, Te Tiriti o Waitangi: Gave the Crown the authority to set up a government for her people who had settled or were to settle in Aotearoa/Te Waipounamu (Kāwanatanga). Promised the protection of our ongoing Rangatiratanga (which encompasses sovereignty) over our lands, territories and resources (Tino Rangatiratanga). Gave the Crown a pre-emptive right to occupy lands we were willing to allocate. Promised our whānau the same rights as her subjects. …
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/11/new-zealand-maori-tribes-letter-king-charles-treaty-of-waitangi.

Apparently Aotearoa/Te Waipounamu means North Island/South Island – the proper use of ‘Aotearoa’ – when you are the National Iwi Chairs Forum and Ngā Rangatira addressing King Charles III.
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December 19, 2024 8:00am
- pdm
  
  Selective memories I think.
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:21am
- Burtland
  
  Aotearoa is a fake name for New Zealand …
  
  there was a welcome to a maori gathering in the 1800s which was the same – Aotearoa/Te Waipounamu – cant find it now
  
  our history is a mess
  
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  December 19, 2024 10:11am
- mandk
  
  I’m glad the Iwi Chairs Froum made that distinction.
  
  It confirms that “Aotearoa” and “New Zealand” are not interchangeable, and that any references to the former should be avoided in any documents or texts that are concerned with the country as a whole.
  
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  December 19, 2024 10:23am
Pope Punctilious II

So I wonder how the NZ navy’s DEI program is working out. Surely by now they must be collecting a nice fat diversidy dividend – that unfortunate episode with the Manawanui must have been a case of teething problems, a minor blip blown out of all proportion by sexist, homophobic Armchair Admirals.

Oh wait, looks like another female commander is on the rocks, so to speak.
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December 19, 2024 8:05am
- cmm
  
  She has been on shore leave for quite a few months now.
  
  From a brief reading on what a “summary trial” means, this is considered to be the proper way to try medium-level offending that could see things being upgraded to a proper court martial.
  
  If it was really serious offending they would have skipped straight to CM.
  
  It is a pity that the “woman’s touch” she brought to the ship didn’t extend to cleaning. Last time I saw HMNZS Canterbury she looked like a rust bucket.
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:41am
  - Ehlana
    
    Since when did the military need women to keep things clean?
    
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    December 19, 2024 10:00am
    - cmm
      
      She could order the cleaning. That’s what most commanders would do.
      
      I am still at a loss as to why she thought she should say she’s bringing a “woman’s touch” to the ship and what that even means.
      
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      December 19, 2024 10:05am
  - Anthony Melchett
    
    I suspect it’s a “woman’s touch” that’s got her into trouble.
    
    If not that then it will be the classic bullying you see from people like her when given any power
    
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    December 19, 2024 10:37am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Arderns DEI
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:50am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  The NZDF is there to bring “havoc and disorder to the King’s enemies” not bring a “woman’s touch”.
  
  Nelson’s Fighting Instructions:
  
  “A Captain can do no wrong who lays his ship alongside that of an enemy”
  
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  December 19, 2024 10:30am
muzled

Just reading Te Ao news.

There are over 2500 treaty claims yet to start being heard!

Call me naive but I didn’t really think there would have been that many claims altogether.

In total there are 14,637 treaty claims.

https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2024/12/18/new-report-reveals-more-than-2500-treaty-settlements-yet-to-start/

Maggy correct me if I’m wrong here but I read there were approx 150 iwi/hapu in nzuld.

If that number is correct, that’s just shy of 100 claims per iwi/hapu.
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December 19, 2024 8:08am
- imalwaysright
  
  And the public pay their legal fees.
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:45am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You’re probably right with the c. 150 iwi and hapu that are currently recognised in NZ
  
  https://tewhata.io/
  
  However most of the smaller iwi have some affiliation with others and often present as a group collective.
  
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  December 19, 2024 10:33am
cmm

Nicely hidden in the Christmas rush is the news that Commmander Bronwyn Heslop is going to face a trial next year but are keeping the charges under wrap.

So much for bringing a “woman’s touch” to the ship. Please just bring the “Navy’s touch”.
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December 19, 2024 8:10am
- pdm
  
  Trial or Court Marshall?
  
  Is there a difference in the Armed Forces?
  
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  December 19, 2024 8:19am
  - Cassandra
    
    Martial. A CM is a military trial.
    
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    December 19, 2024 8:23am
    - pdm
      
      Thanks Cass – edit cut me off before I could correct my spelling. I should have known better too.
      
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      December 19, 2024 8:25am
  - cmm
    
    It says a summary trial. AFAIK this can recommend a court martial or make a finding on its own.
    
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    December 19, 2024 8:30am
    - Biscuit
      
      Nyce too no sum ov uss kan youse da Qing’s Inglish, a, cmm!
      
      (pdm, my study, 1pm…)
      
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      December 19, 2024 9:13am
      - pdm
        
        I could write it out 100 times Biscuit – as I did until (incorrectly spelt untill) in standard 5 Biscuit.
        
        Doubt the mods (Merry Christmas Mods) would let me publish though.
        
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        December 19, 2024 9:26am
      - Biscuit
        
        Ah, no-one’s perfect, pdm!
        
        (Why, as recently as June 2001, I had a day when my perfection level fell as low as a shocking 98.875%!)
        
        My spelling bugbear used to be the word Mediterranean which I invariably spelt in essays as Meditterranean. My Geo. teacher, a Mr Ross, a great man, brought me up to the blackboard one day, got me to write it (incorrectly) and then got me to tell the class what it literally meant.
        
        ‘Um, well, medi means middle.’
        ‘Very good. And what does tterra mean?’
        
        HUGE laughter from the class … but a salutary, never-forgotten lesson to me that terra, meaning Earth, only one had ‘t’ in it. And the same thing for Mediterranean…
        
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        December 19, 2024 9:35am
  - G152
    
    Requestmen and defaulters 🙂
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:04am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  The job of the Armed Forces is to “go out and bring havoc and disorder to the King’s Enemies” if required.
  
  Not to bring “a woman’s touch”.
  
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  December 19, 2024 8:42am
  - cmm
    
    TBF, Canterbury is a log vessel with minimal self-defence capabilities. Hardly going to scare the King’s Enemies unless you get the cook to go out front and wave his frying pan.
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:48am
    - Jack5
      
      Wikipedia says of HMNZS Canterbury:
      
      The vessel was plagued by problems since delivery, having been involved in a number of incidents and being considered less seaworthy than specified. It was estimated in 2008 that at least another NZ$20 million would have to be spent to achieve the sought-for operational abilities.
      
      NZ doesn’t seem to have inherited from Britain the “Nelson touch”.
      
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      December 19, 2024 9:56am
      - fightingtemeraire
        
        RNZN has no one with experience in operating cargo vessels. They were advised by the builders this was a suitable vessel for operating in the Islands.
        
        AFAIK no one in NZ with operating vessels in the Islands was consulted. She is completely unsuited for that operation. On 3 occasions in the late 80’s I gave a talk at the NZ Command College at RNZAF Whenuapai on the vessel available and how you would load them if the NZDF was asked to go up to the P Is in “defence of the civil power”!!!
        
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        December 19, 2024 10:36am
    - rangitoto
      
      A decent force would be ten Flight III Arleigh Burke style destroyers. Just need to stump up some cash.
      
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      December 19, 2024 10:19am
- imalwaysright
  
  From article: “Commander Heslop denies the allegations and is looking forward to continuing with her duties after the holiday leave period.”
  
  The Military Police must have good reason to charge a Commander.
  Is she saying that she is innocent or is she saying they can’t prove the charges?
  I think the Navy would consider the latter unbecoming of an officer.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360526911/navy-commander-faces-military-trial-next-year
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:33am
Tomtoddy

One of the more disturbing trends in our world is the erosion of the value of human life. Once human life was deemed sacred and the judicial system protected that sanctity by condemning murderers to death themselves as retribution and a warning to the community that taking life was not acceptable. Other than in a few rare cases that process has been watered down to imprisonment with shorter and shorter terms.
We now allow mercy killing of the old and terminally ill. We allow unborn babies to be killed even up to fulltime in some circumstances.

Now an even more sinister move – accepting that some people who represent an ideology we disagree with can be killed. https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/5044269-poll-finds-41-percent-find-killing-unacceptable/

It is hard to believe that societal values are moving so quickly that removing innocent people because we feel strongly they represent something we don’t like is seen as OK. It is not difficult to see where this is heading.
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December 19, 2024 8:12am
- cmm
  
  I must say I struggle to find tears when a gang member is killed.
  
  Yes, there is an erosion of the value of human life, but there is also an erosion of society.
  
  When I arrived in NZ in 1992, about the only place you would see any graffiti is in South Auckland.
  When I first came to Christchurch in 1996 I was driven around – we saw one bit of graffiti on the Harper Ave bridge over the Avon during an hour long drive through Christchurch and Sumner etc.
  Now there are at least 10 bits of graffiti within 100 metres of my house.
  
  People feel nothing stealing from supermarkets. The cops don’t even respond when you report a stolen vehicle, etc etc.
  
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  December 19, 2024 8:24am
  - Burtland
    
    theres one guy in Christchurch been doing a lot of the graffiti for over 10 years -PK- hes recently done every traffic light control box in the city
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:22am
- JimBobJoe
  
  The word you are searching for is: Evil
  
  Their is a general inhumanity running around the word which totally disrespects human life and even actively hates human life.
  
  The climate change banner is really a depopulation banner, i.e. few humans.
  
  The wider green movement is inspiring western woman to not have children, even while pushing hyper promiscuity! How more anti human can you get??? Procreate but don’t conceive, and if you conceive kill the child in the Womb…
  
  The criminals rights movement which has peaked in the US recently with the defund the police banner is again an anti-human movement, as it sets the general population up as prey for unhinged and in some case purely evil predators to feast on.
  
  The western world is truly under siege from Evil…
  
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  December 19, 2024 8:49am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Correct. This evil seems to mirror access to (anti)social media.
    Our signal to noise ratio used to be about 90/10. These days we would be lucky if it was 20/80.
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:50am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    A greyhound trainer told me earlier this week about evil. If his niece gets rid of a child she does not want it is called abortion and the Lefties love it. If he gets rid of an Oaks contender that he does not want then he faces a fine of up to $50,000 for getting rid of the bitch.
    
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    December 19, 2024 10:35am
cmm

A German couple got to pay the Rotorua tax when their campervan was burgled. They tracked down the offender and found a cop, but the cop said nothing could be done because he didn’t have a warrant.

I am no expert on police procedure, but surely if you have a theft victim saying there is someone with stolen goods then the police don’t need a search warrant to detain someone and ask questions.

Sounds to me like the cop didn’t feel like being hassled and needs a solid arse-kicking.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rotorua-german-tourists-track-suspect-criticise-police-after-campervan-break-in/EWTJYDM7TNFLHGZX4ZTYBBMI5U/
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December 19, 2024 8:16am
- imalwaysright
  
  He doesn’t need a warrant to knock on the door.
  Then if he thinks he can smell dope he doesnt need a warrant to go in.
  Lazy, scared or both.
  
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  December 19, 2024 8:43am
  - cmm
    
    Yup, it can’t be easy being a cop in a gang town like Rotorua, but if you’re going to take the coin then do the job.
    
    I’ve only been there once or twice back in the 1990s. Even then you got the intimidating feeling that you are being treated as prey by an envious and hostile population. I thought I’d left that behind in Africa, but no – alive and well in A/NZ.
    
    I don’t know, but I strongly suspect, that the entitlement, aggro and intimidation is way worse than it was 30 years ago.
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:54am
- rouppe
  
  Yes appalling response.
  
  “We prioritise life threatening incidents”. There must be no less than 10 police on duty in Rotorua at any time. You’re trying to tell me there are 10 life threatening incidents in Rotorua continuously 24 hours a day?
  
  I know it’s a shit hole, but really?
  
  Bollocks.
  
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  December 19, 2024 8:44am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Shell Lane (The Terrace) bike rack report:

At 8.20am, one hardy cyclist – bravo! If only he had some chums.

A cool, damp morning in the Capital, not ideal for cycling, to be fair. But, the international bankers whose funds the Council borrowed to build the bike rack still need to be paid, inclement weather or no.
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December 19, 2024 8:20am
- Grunter
  
  Out of curiosity – is it the same bike every morning? Maybe it’s just left there and there are in fact no bikers?
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:36am
Cassandra

Barry Soper has a fulsome tribute to PM Luxon at Newstalk. Very fair appraisal. While National has not gone as far as some of us would like, it’s early days. 2025 should be a good year. Lots to do. Just slowing down the Labour-driven descent to an ethnostate will not be good enough.
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December 19, 2024 8:22am
- lifesgood
  
  I’m sick of the whinging about Luxon. It’s incredibly childish to expect a complete reversal in just one year of the appalling mess Labour left the country in.
  
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  December 19, 2024 8:25am
  - Damocles11
    
    It’s difficult to know what you are talking about. What do you mean ‘a complete reversal’? I’d settle for a partial reversal and some gutsy principled leadership at this point.
    
    Q. Has government spending increased?
    A. Yes
    
    Q. Are our deficits getting larger, and will persist for longer?
    A. Yes.
    
    Q. Have ‘the Principles of the Treaty’ been removed from legislation?
    A. No.
    
    Q. Has state (red) media been defunded / sold?
    A. No.
    
    Q. Has the Waitangi Tribunal had its wings clipped?
    A. No.
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:29am
    - Grunter
      
      Well done Damocles11
      
      5 Inconvenient Truths spelled oy succinctly.
      
      The emotive “stop whinging about Luxon” on KB sounds a bit desperate and almost akin to ‘Jacindmania’ from the left-wing media.
      
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      December 19, 2024 10:28am
  - AitchW
    
    I especially enjoy Hipkins having the gall to suggest that National can no longer blame his government for the mess we’re in.
    Remember “6 long years of neglect” for 6 even longer years?
    He must have the hide of a rhino….
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:44am
    - Blog-aholic
      
      No he has the brains of a koala.
      
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      December 19, 2024 10:26am
    - mandk
      
      Actually, Labour were complaining about 9 years of neglect.
      
      And they were still doing it well into their second term.
      
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      December 19, 2024 10:30am
  - NothingLeft
    
    With our short 3 year terms govts have to do the hard stuff in the first year This govt failed completely to cut the public sector down to size and have left all the other tough love undone as well. As it stands they are merely a govt of managed decline
    
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    December 19, 2024 10:00am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Regardless of whether you like this government or not, at least you get the feeling they won’t have to triumphantly announce a ‘Year of Delivery’ next year…
  
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  December 19, 2024 8:50am
- Mark Hanley
  
  Although I don’t agree with Luxons opposition to the TOW principles bill I’m hoping Luxon is playing the long game.
  
  Here’s my reply to Damiem Grant’s nonsensical Luxon critique.
  
  I’m beginning to wonder whether all NZ political commentators and reporters are deaf.
  
  Every time Luxon stands in Front of NZ reporters responding to mindless, repetitive “can’t quite get ya” questions, he repeats his vision for NZ.
  
  Rebuilding the economy
  Restoring law & order
  Improving our schools & healthcare
  
  All politicians should be “disinterested in re-engineering our public services”. A quick check of the Cambridge dIctionary will help you understand why.
  
  And last but not least, drastically reducing spending and tackling debt whilst in the middle of an economic downturn was the cause of the great depression. I prefer Nationals “steady as she goes” plan to restore the surplus in 2028.
  
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  December 19, 2024 8:55am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    At least there is a plan, Lsbour were simply going to just keep borrowing, even Willis repeated in the house what Edmonds said in the media this week, she said I can’t see what the problem is with borrowing much more, and she wants to be finance minister in a tax and spend governments, what could possibly go wrong
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:55am
  - Damocles11
    
    There was nothing nonsensical about Damien Grant’s column, quite the opposite in fact. National are not getting government spending down, government spending is increasing. You represent an establishment viewpoint, you want National to row the boat in circles (‘steady as she goes’) while we all collectively pray for a miracle.
    
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    December 19, 2024 10:17am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      People with plans avoid circles.
      
      I have never seen a more purposeful and transparent government. When have you ever seen quarterly government action plans which are reported on at the end of each quarter?
      
      Luxon appreciates the damage smash and grab finance ministers cause. A large reduction in spending during a recession would be madness.
      
      Thank goodness we’ve got a clever, ethical, and experienced manager at the helm, and not an “at all costs” free marketeer. Did the concentration of wealth, and hollowing out of middle classes in the 80/90s teach you nothing?
      
      And thanks for the establishment view compliment, which regardless of its accuracy, suggests i have in depth inside knowledge.
      
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      December 19, 2024 10:58am
- Grunter
  
  Cassandra – I down ticked you. I think Luxon (and Willis) are doing a very bad job.
  
  The latest fiscal updates a few days ago show we are borrowing at an increasing rate – even more than Robertson, and he was a far-left Socialist.
  
  Total government bonds issued from 2024 until 2028 is expected to equal $115 billion ($28b + $25b + $28b + $23b +$11b).
  
  That is the current financial plan of this Coalition Government (“the most right-wing Government ever”??) after running the country for 12 months. That is the worst financial performance of any NZ Government on record.
  
  This is an eye-watering amount. The government will never be able to pay back this amount of debt. The interest payments alone will spiral out of control ($12 billion as a minimum per year). The country will be borrowing to pay back existing loans. That is a Ponzi scheme by definition.
  
  Then consider this. In these numbers there is no allowance for a global crisis, or natural disasters. IMO there is a very low chance that this will be the case over the next 5 years.
  
  Again – Luxon, based on the FACTS above, is doing a very bad job – with no sign that they are going to turn these numbers around. In fact they are saying the exact opposite.
  
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  December 19, 2024 8:58am
  - Yabster
    
    yes I also read the down to earth kiwi article – the forecast cashflow is a huge issue due to the debt they will be racking up- talk about living beyond their means- take you own advice you gave local Govt (Luxon/Willis) -do the basics well and scrap all the other crap including numerous unnecessary Ministeries.
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:33am
  - Burtland
    
    McCullock on the topic
    https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/12/professor-robert-macculloch-labour_19.html
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:36am
  - Jethrod
    
    Oh god!, more handwring over the Coalition government. At least the rhetoric is that things will materially improve, but a bit of hardiness is required. You didn’t moan this much when fat boy and Horace were doing their thi g in the last 6 years! Get a grip! Not that thing, yourself!
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:57am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    We may still be borrowing that’s thanks to labours sky high inflation. Willis stated at that stand up, the governance stripped 23 billion of wasteful spending, so presumably when the economy moves next year then borrowing will be much reduced
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:57am
    - Grunter
      
      G – that is delusional thinking that makes no sense.
      
      What makes you believe the economy will grow faster than what the Treasury numbers are showing – they almost always forecast higher growth than what we actually get. So a very low chance that a spirt of economic growth will reduce borrowing anytime soon. If anything, there are ominous downside risks that aren’t in the Treasury numbers (eg Oil price spikes due to global wars etc).
      
      Inflation is actually helping the numbers balance as it inflates the tax revenue automatically as wages/salaries rise. There is no tax bracket adjustments in these numbers – so in effect we get 5 years of automatic tax increases (unannounced of course)…..but we still spend like drunken sailors that requires $115 Billion in new loans.
      
      [Mod – debate without making it personal]
      
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      December 19, 2024 10:38am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  They have got rid of everything labour brought in, even the well being bullshit was taken out of councils the other day, trying to rename Petone the other day was scrubbed by the minister, where are all these continuing Labour policies we hear about? And f do ont say the dole and anything like that
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:02am
  - pdm
    
    Not the Taumata Arowai rort which continues although the Mahuta connection seems to have been watered down or maybe even expunged.
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:33am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      If they is the left over from 3 waters, then do some homework, because that was dropped in November
      
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      December 19, 2024 10:00am
  - AitchW
    
    It’s not only Labour’s batchit crazy legislation they have to deal with, it’s a public service apparently hell bent on delaying, ignoring, or sabotaging government policy.
    It’ll take at least 5 years to reverse the damage Ardern, Robertson, Hipkins et al did to this country.
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:48am
- imalwaysright
  
  Cass,
  I agree. I’m optimistic for next year as long as the government don’t fall into the trap of thinking comfortable poverty is an acceptable goal.
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:18am
Maggy Wassilieff

When I had my babies 30+ years ago, it was pretty standard to have 5-7 days stay in maternity hospital.

Then somewhere in the 1990s it became the norm to biff many mothers and babes out of hospital within 12 hours.

For the last couple of decades new mums have been entitled to a 2 night (48 hr) stay in a maternity hospital/birthing clinic….

Now they’ll be entitled to 3 nights’ (72 hour) stay.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2412/S00225/more-support-on-the-way-for-new-mums.htm

I don’t suppose there’ll ever be a move back to a 2 week stay in a Maternity hospital which was pretty standard when my mother gave birth in the 1950s.
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December 19, 2024 8:26am
- cmm
  
  Golly, 2 weeks! But then men were not considered able to help out with messy women’s stuff.
  
  My wife wanted to be out of there ASAP and she only stayed overnight (1991 and 1996). Gone by 9am.
  
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  December 19, 2024 8:35am
  - john1234
    
    Same with us. Couldn’t get out fast enough and that was from the relatively comfortable BirthCare facility!
    
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    December 19, 2024 8:43am
    - AitchW
      
      We were the same. Both kids were healthy, Mum was happy and I was able to stay home and help out.
      Despite the best efforts of the hand wringers to convince us otherwise the vast majority of newborns and mums can go home within 24 hours.
      Some folks like to take the mickey and stay longer for free food and someone to look after the baby, but most like to go home.
      There is a number who need to stay longer for medical reasons and I have no doubt that they can do so.
      
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      December 19, 2024 9:52am
  - Local Miller
    
    Except for our first who was prem and the baby needed to be in the hospital for 7 days before they would discharge mom and baby, the other 3 were zero hours in the hospital.
    Home births are fantastic if you can do them.
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:41am
- john1234
  
  2 weeks for most would be a waste of scarce hospital resources.
  
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  December 19, 2024 8:42am
- alex Masterley
  
  I was born in a maternity home in Christchurch. Mum was an inmate for a couple of weeks after my arrival with a collection of other new mothers.
  It took me a number of years to work out why Mum & Dad were really friendly with what was an odd group of people.
  I am still good friends with the kids born at the same time as me as well.
  
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  December 19, 2024 8:56am
  - Local Miller
    
    Seems a common story from that time. My parent’s best friends were a couple they met when in the maternity hospital when my oldest sister was born. Their daughter is still a close friend with our family and my sister in particular.
    
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    December 19, 2024 9:44am
  - cmm
    
    Biologically it makes a lot of sense.
    
    Nothing turns on a couple’s oxytocin more than childbirth (especially a first child).
    Oxytocin helps build trust, love and strong relationships.
    Therefore it is not at all strange that people going though this experience together are likely to bond.
    
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    December 19, 2024 10:02am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, my Gran once said that a long hospital stay gave the mother a chance to recover before the next pregnancy awaited at home. Despite this it wasn’t uncommon for a ward nurse to find the father attempting to climb into a mother’s bed. The Matron would have been involved and the randy father sent on his way.
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:02am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I imagine this is for first baby? My partners mother of her grand kids had the second baby, did the obs and asked to go home and she did
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:04am
- GazzaW
  
  Outstanding news Maggie. You can bet your bottom dollar that little gem will be buried within the depths of the NZ Herald and get no mention at all on either of the TV News channels. Positive news is strictly verboten regarding our health system.
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:05am
- Flossie
  
  My second baby got me 14 days holiday in a small town maternity hospital in 1972. It had been a straightforward delivery and I was perfectly healthy. I just relaxed and enjoyed it knowing I’d be going home to join my 18 month old with the new little one. Lots of cloth nappies and a wringer washing machine awaited!
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:06am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Pump out another one and those wonderful cloth nappies will be wanted by HIM to clean the car. They were really good for that.
    Dad would put the soiled cloth nappies on the clothes line and high pressure hose them, prior to washing them. No picnics under the clothes line until the youngest was five years old.
    
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    December 19, 2024 10:53am
- graham
  
  My wife had her second baby in the early 90’s and was booted out of Middlemore as quickly as possible. Fortunately she was able to go to some maternity hospital in Papakura (no idea if it still exists). I say “fortunately” because she had difficulties with feeding the second baby which she hadn’t had with the first, causing an enormous amount of anxiety. The staff at Papakura were wonderful and over several days managed to get a smooth routine going.
  
  Babies don’t always operate smoothly and by the book. And this was my wife’s second child.
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:27am
- MCōs
  
  My mother had six kids, including twins, in a space of about five years,
  She wasn’t allowed out of the maternity hospital for ten days, nor could Dad bring any of the other kids to visit. She just wanted to get back home and couldn’t understand what the hold up was.
  Back home she cooked all the meals and washed a mountain of nappies.
  Mum loved having all her kids around the house & a few years later when my youngest sister wandered off to school she sat down and cried.
  
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  December 19, 2024 11:01am
kevn

Meanwhile in the US…
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/they-hate-trump-steve-quayle-fears-nuke-false-flag-keep-him-out-office
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December 19, 2024 8:36am
rouppe

A Calgary KC was stripped of that title after they sent a misogynistic email.

Perhaps Judith Collins can use that as an example to insist Michael Reed KC be stripped of his title after his incident at the Northern Club
9 0
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December 19, 2024 8:38am
rouppe

Here’s how it’s done in Scotland, Judith. We must have a similar process.

https://judiciary.scot/docs/librariesprovider3/judiciarydocuments/kings-counsel/the-procedure-for-the-removal-of-the-title-of-king%27s-counseld33cfe3a4b734a45bd810ab7f4ee7cd0.pdf
9 0
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December 19, 2024 8:50am
- alwyn.a
  
  I don’t think there is much chance of him losing the KC honorific if we follow the Scottish rules.
  The only reasons they give are that he be sentenced to 12 months imprisonment or that he be disbarred permanently.
  He may have been behaving like an idiot but I don’t think either of those punishments are likely.
  
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  December 19, 2024 10:15am
Scooter

8 months home D for driving drunk and running over and killing a person. There used to be a time when it was at least 6 months disqualified for being over the limit now you can kill someone and get a holiday at home for 8 months. I’m not so sure if it was her All Black father or maybe her ethnic background weighed more in her favour.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/helena-cribb-sentencing-daughter-of-former-all-black-sentenced-to-eight-months-home-detention-over-hit-and-run-death/SQNDQHOMCBBJFCK2CEVDQB6CKA/
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December 19, 2024 9:02am
- pdm
  
  Maybe the Judge is a disciple of Una Jagosh.
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:36am
- Local Miller
  
  This is terrible. Drunk driving, not staying at the scene of the accident, the pedestrian dies, and all she gets is 8 months home D.
  Each of these is a serious crime in their own right!
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:54am
- Local Miller
  
  And the poor grammar. Why do they put an apostrophe at the end of “months”?
  “…eight months’ home detention…”!
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:57am
  - Flossie
    
    A Home Detention of eight months?
    
    2 0
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    December 19, 2024 10:12am
  - cmm
    
    Local: Where do you want the apostrophe?
    
    If you’re working with something that ends in an s sound, then the apostrophe goes at the end.
    eg.
    The dogs’ barking = the barking of the dogs.
    Charles’ calculator
    
    If you put the apostrophe between them then it is singular:
    
    The dog’s barking = the barking of the dog.
    
    So it would be
    Eight months’ home detention = home detention of eight months.
    One month’s home detention = home detention of one month.
    
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    December 19, 2024 10:51am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Seems way too light a sentence to me.
  
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  December 19, 2024 10:12am
Grunter

What I want for Christmas….

I want David Seymour to turn into Javier Milei.

Seymours chainsaw (Ministry of Regulations) finally started this week – slashing regs on the Early Childhood sector (nice, but Yawn…..).

Meanwhile, my ‘Person of the Year’ Javier Milei, he had established a Ministry of Deregulation that has been churning out an average of two deregulations per day, systematically dismantling decades of bureaucratic bloat. He even announced that AFIP—Argentina’s version of the IRD—would be dismantled and replaced with a significantly smaller organization.

On Day 1 he closed down 12 out of 20 Government Agencies and sacked 50,000 public servants (The Blob).

Please Santa – can we have a Javier Milei.
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December 19, 2024 9:16am
artemisia

Global coal demand will hit record in 2024.

New Zealand has an estimated 15 billion tonnes of coal reserves. Plus plenty of belt tightening. Just saying.

https://thewest.com.au/business/coal-demand-to-hit-record-in-2024-global-energy-agency-c-17129364
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December 19, 2024 9:28am
- Grunter
  
  Time to buy shares in Coal miners (not NZ), Uranium Miners, and with global wars and uncertainty on the horizon – Gold Miners.
  
  All the stuff that the world will be short of over the next 10 years.
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:42am
- AitchW
  
  I can hear greenie heads exploding all over the world!! Burn baby, burn!
  
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  December 19, 2024 9:54am
- imalwaysright
  
  NZ must be one of the most naturally blessed countries on earth.
  Unfortunately its full of doom merchants that sit around all day arguing with each other.
  
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  December 19, 2024 10:01am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Naughty Shane Jones has been naughty because he wanted a lump of coal
  
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  December 19, 2024 10:02am
Skippytony

As a society, we are doomed. On the news this week the Woolston Brass band was playing Christmas Carols in the remains of the cathedral. They, they minister and the news crew were all wearing white hard hats, Hi viz and eye protection.

Safety kabuki at work……
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December 19, 2024 9:28am
- GazzaW
  
  We were doomed the year that the Sallies were ordered off the back of their flat bed trucks thus curtailing their community Christmas carol community visits.
  
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  December 19, 2024 10:52am
Damocles11

RNZ are laughing at us. Thanks Luxon and Goldsmith.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360527528/rnz-accused-splashing-cash-latest-tvnz-cuts-be-confirmed-next-few-days

‘RNZ’s wage bill has grown by $5 million and the number of staff earning more than $100,000 has also grown by 35%.
National’s Vanessa Weenink questioned why bonuses had been paid when RNZ had not met all its targets, but Thompson said the targets had been set very high’.
🤦🏻‍♂️
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December 19, 2024 9:37am
- Burtland
  
  Maorification of RNZ has continued at full pace this year – its almost as if Thompson still thinks that Willies in charge – maybe he is
  
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  December 19, 2024 10:35am
Jack5

The Appeal Court’s approval of the BNZ’s debanking of Gloriavale is explained at interest.co.nz

The court concluded BNZ was within in its legal rights.

But the court doesn’t decide on its moral rights.

If the BNZ a third time in its history needs to be bailed out, may be it will be the Government’s turn to walk away.

https://www.interest.co.nz/banking/131297/minterellisonruddwatts-sarah-salmond-alex-church-explain-what-recent-bnz-v
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December 19, 2024 9:41am
Jethrod

Perhaps if the equation coal reserves vs gold reserves, the money comes out the same….. just easier to get.
1 0
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December 19, 2024 10:04am
Swifty

Even more entitlement from a New Zealand Greenie:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/social-justice-campaigner-candidate-jack-brazil-accused-of-burglary-during-dublin-riots-claims-alibi/CPPBBZF2QVETRGAC4MJHNQFTBY/

They just love helping themselves to other people’s belongings don’t they?
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December 19, 2024 10:30am
Swifty

Vote Labour but get Green craziness and Maori Party dodginess, racism and separatism:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/537076/opposition-parties-move-towards-formalising-collaboration

Good god, can you just imagine it?

There’s no way in the world Hipkins will be able to hold that mob together. Clark maybe, but not Hipkins and he’s one of the better ones in the current sorry Labour bunch.

And can you imagine the massive demands from the Maori Party extremists and Green wreckers?

Chilling. Just chilling.
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December 19, 2024 10:47am
Anthony Melchett

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/land-information-new-zealand-declines-proposal-to-change-petones-name-to-pito-one/WR5MUDBJSJC4BOXABNKJWFH2GQ/

Up yours Campbell Barry.

You can’t balance the books, control spending and complete necessary maintenance yet you divert all your energy to virtue signal and change a name for no reason other than to suck up to maoris. What a loser.

This decision alone makes it all worth while.
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December 19, 2024 10:48am
Matt Long

People are blaming drugs and demons, but to me she just looks like she’s auditioning for the Maori Party Parliamentary team.
https://x.com/kirawontmiss/status/1869120481435226529
And come to think of it, with the Maori Green and Labour honorable members, drugs and demons appear to be a prominent feature.
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December 19, 2024 10:51am
Swifty

Ardern’s, Robertson’s and Hipkins’ legacy:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/360528307/nzs-economy-ranked-almost-last-oecd-comparison-ahead-latest-gdp-numbers

They destroyed our economy in 24-36 months.

Quite some achievement – and as I’ve mentioned for years here, they don’t have the honesty nor integrity to accept even the tiniest share of responsibility for it.

It’s all National’s fault apparently.

The Left will never admit when they’ve done wrong. Their arrogance knows no bounds.
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December 19, 2024 10:53am
Maggy Wassilieff

Gary Judd presents a very clear argument as to why he supports the Treaty Principles Bill

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/gary-judd-kc-submission-on-treaty-principles-bill

It is much more convincing than a raucous war dance.
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December 19, 2024 10:55am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGcgBodh9QQ
CUBA Has Collapsed.
One of Cuba’s common lies regards not being able to get spare parts for maintenance of its power plants. The plants were built by the Russians. There is nothing stopping the Russians from selling parts and maintenance services to the Cubas — except that the Cubans are broke, and they have a history, as you said, of stiffing anyone who gives them a loan.
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December 19, 2024 11:00am
Maggy Wassilieff

Well, this clarifies matters…

https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2024/12/19/waitangi-forum-no-desire-to-welcome-government-onto-treaty-grounds-in-2025/

Yep, time for politicians to give Waitangi a big miss on their busy summer schedule..
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December 19, 2024 11:08am

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