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December 5, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 05 December 2024

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General Debate

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Yvette

Chris Hipkins was clearly not going to tell his activists that they were wrong or that the last Labour Government was wrong on anything. That would’ve been internal suicide. Ever pragmatic, Hipkins has been steely focused on retaining his leadership position, which means keeping onside with everyone, but especially the highly influential Māori caucus and activists.

As Chris Trotter wrote yesterday on the Interest website, “Hipkins’ political survival [is] resting squarely on the shoulders of Jackson and his Māori Caucus”. Trotter explains that although it might have seemed odd to give Jackson the “co-starring role at this year’s Labour conference”, it was about shoring up Hipkins’ support in the party. This also explains, Trotter argues, “why Labour’s leadership has chosen te Tiriti as the hill upon which the party is ready to die – a second time.” – Bryce Edwards
_____

So while everyone opposed to the Treaty Principles Bill is trashing David Seymour, does Chris Hipkins have a view of the bill, which is a pursuit of his own career?
Would that have thrilled the late Maori King?
Is it a helpful way that a statesman serves the nation’s so-called Founding Document and New Zealand’s unwritten constitution?

A referendum may be a step too far, simply because so many New Zealanders screwed up voting Ardern and Hipkins in for a second term, so why would they not fuck up again, and New Zealand will live with the result for an Ardernity, despite it being the decision of millions of ill-informed voters?
But now Hipkins, for what part he may play, may just be “his personal interest part” – just a “continued employment agenda”, through appeasing Willie Jackson and his Maori Caucus?

How much is the Treaty worth to the nation? The salary of Hipkins and a few others?
That may be all.
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December 5, 2024 8:01am
- wairarapapaul
  
  Love the new adjective, Ardernity.
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:15am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    It’s not an adjective. It’s a noun, apparently used above to mean something like “an eternity in purgatory”.
    
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    December 5, 2024 11:50am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    It’s a noun. The adjective would presumably be Ardernal
    
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    December 5, 2024 12:05pm
    - greybeard
      
      Ardernous ?
      Arderniferous ?
      Ardernic?
      Arderndental?
      
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      December 5, 2024 2:31pm
- Paulus
  
  But it should be remembered that there are eleven Unions at the back of Labour too.
  And not all of them are Maori orientated.
  
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  December 5, 2024 1:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Peter Williams substack
Update on the Understanding of Te Tiriti booklet.

https://substack.com/home/post/p-152559213
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December 5, 2024 8:04am
- pdm
  
  SO – I have just come over from reading Peter Williams Substack. Enlightening as always.
  
  I must now get on and read One Sun In The Sky.
  
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  December 5, 2024 8:07am
  - Grunter
    
    I highly recommend One Sun in The Sky. I’d challenge anyone to form a valid counter argument.
    
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    December 5, 2024 8:45am
    - Don Beckett
      
      So why is the minister of Education allowing this false propaganda to be disseminated to the schools?
      Surely she must act swiftly and have it removed – perhaps even put another booklet together with the correct meaning of the treaty.
      
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      December 5, 2024 10:26am
      - Yabster
        
        Hi Don- email her an ask- be interested if you get a response!
        
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        December 5, 2024 10:35am
      - marcw
        
        Think about what you are asking – book banning is the action of tyrants. Let the schools decide, they will bear the consequences and answer to parents.
        
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        December 5, 2024 11:05am
      - Don Beckett
        
        My understanding is that the booklet was not authorised which is the Dept. of Education’s responsibility, so it should be removed. What you are saying is that anyone can produce a booklet on any subject & send it through the schools – Fail.
        
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        December 5, 2024 11:23am
      - Taieri
        
        book banning is the action of tyrants.
        ————–
        
        …as is political indoctrination of children.
        
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        December 5, 2024 11:48am
      - Paulus
        
        Simple it is because the Education so called profession will have nothing to do with the Minister, as we know already, and the Teachers and their Union, are fully backing the Department to save their jobs if they are seen to be disagreeing.
        
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        December 5, 2024 2:02pm
  - OlderChas
    
    It is well worth reading, pdm
    
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    December 5, 2024 11:18am
- Souvlaki
  
  Luxon’s advisors….if he has any…could learn a lot by regularly looking at KB General Debate…it would help them understand National’s flagging poll numbers…as erstwhile supporters are seriously disenfranchised !
  
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  December 5, 2024 8:11am
  - Swifty
    
    Who says they don’t already?
    
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    December 5, 2024 8:17am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Because it doesn’t show.
      
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      December 5, 2024 10:27am
      - Swifty
        
        That doesn’t mean they don’t at least look and read though Don.
        
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        December 5, 2024 11:12am
      - Don Beckett
        
        True.
        
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        December 5, 2024 11:24am
  - G152
    
    You do understand that polls and poll numbers can and do get ‘altered’ to suit agendas…… dont believe me look at the US presidential polls 24 hours before the election and the election results
    
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    December 5, 2024 8:34am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      That will answer why Nats went up to 38.8 in Curia two weeks ago, Curia will not be giving alterations to suit
      
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      December 5, 2024 9:39am
  - Scott
    
    I’d have to disagree a little bit. The introduction of the Treaty principles bill has increased the support for the Maori party. I would suggest the controversy and uproar has upset the electorate and National’s support has declined.
    
    Act supporters have stayed with them. But National has a lot of middle of the road supporters who don’t like controversy and uproar and the new poll numbers reflect that.
    
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    December 5, 2024 8:38am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I really do not believe centre voters will fling the door open to TPM, those voters do want stability true, but they do not want activism in cabinet
      
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      December 5, 2024 9:41am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Agreed, but some of the soft Nat voters are probably swinging back to Labour, if that poll is to be believed. And TMP is probably drawing its support from leftists and Maori who’ve previously supported Labour.
        
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        December 5, 2024 11:52am
    - Grunter
      
      It would be interesting to see how many “Undecided Voters” there are. My pick is there are heaps. 2 years to go before and election so “who cares?” And a bunch of National supporters going…..”I don’t know who to vote for anymore…..”
      
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      December 5, 2024 11:27am
    - Paulus
      
      The support of the Labour Party has dropped as some will back the Maori Party.
      I doubt any National or ACT supporters will change any time soon.
      
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      December 5, 2024 2:04pm
  - ChristopherW2
    
    Laughable – there are a small proportion of reasoned comments on this blog, by those showing an informed, adult understanding of politics and society.
    
    Most of you just write like inverse Leftists.
    
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    December 5, 2024 9:04am
    - lifesgood
      
      I get the Impression there are quite a few posters who act like spoilt, bratty toddlers, stamping their feet and wailing because National is not doing absolutely everything they want. I’ve got news for them…no government ever will. And an ACT govt would be no different. Question to those posters…what govt would you prefer?
      
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      December 5, 2024 9:13am
    - Yabster
      
      as opposed to an actual leftist- esp one who thinks his opinion is fact..
      
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      December 5, 2024 10:36am
  - Groggy
    
    They probably do and then dismiss them as the lunatic fringe. There is a massive amount of Maga, anti-vax, racist, misogynist ranting on here and not much that has any relevance to the average voter who doesn’t give a toss about Hunters laptop or want Jacinda arrested.
    
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    December 5, 2024 12:02pm
Tomtoddy

To emit any ruminant methane a NZ sheep or cow must eat grass that uses atmospheric CO2 through the photosynthesis process. For every kg of methane emitted 10 kgs of CO2 are taken out of the atmosphere. That is a very significant amount of CO2 removed.

It should be an important mitigating factor in determining whether our sheep and cattle farmers are penalised for their emissions.

Of all the millions of Greenhouse Gas emitters worldwide only rice growers and sheep and cattle farmers have offsets to counter their emissions. But no one wants to know. It is ignored.

Yesterday the Coalition Government released a report on reduction targets for methane emitters. Yet again natural offsets were omitted, imperiously tossed aside.

The strange thing about the report was it didn’t quantify the amount of warming farmers are supposed to be causing. Farmers are still erroneously blamed for half NZ’s warming but a 60 page report on reduction targets never mentioned the very nub of what all this science and hullaballoo is all about – how much warming is happening.

It didn’t because its so embarrassingly tiny it cannot be measured. One of the authors of the report on another occasion let slip it is 4 millionths of a degree per year. Another senior scientist who looked at NZ’s position said 4 millionths was heavily overstated. That’s a paltry, inconsequential amount.

The report means our farmers, still the backbone of the economy, get penalised for something that has no measurable negative effect and that uses CO2 every day.
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December 5, 2024 8:05am
- Simon
  
  International rules-based system – the govt hands are tied.
  
  All this strange crap forced upon NZ. Luxon is look oh well this is international. Luxon is the PM of the international rules based system not NZ.
  
  Its so beyond any of those feckless clowns in Wellington to act in NZ’s interests.
  
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  December 5, 2024 8:14am
  - imalwaysright
    
    As soon as a NZ bureaucrat or politician hears a foreign accent telling them what to do they go weak at the knees and start agreeing compulsively.
    
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    December 5, 2024 9:11am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘International rules-based system’
    
    Yep, the Wets in the west always quote that .
    
    Yet arguably none of the 5 permanent members of the Security Council bind themselves in any meaningful way other than by their own rules which they make up as they go along.
    
    And as to the rest of the UN members and rules , bwahahahahaa.
    
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    December 5, 2024 9:36am
  - Damocles11
    
    NZ voluntarily signed up to such stringent emissions reductions targets that we are on the hook for $30 billion in penalties. The worlds biggest polluter China signed up to increasing its emissions all the way up to 2030, and are on the hook for $0 in penalties.
    We are terminally stupid here in New Zealand. Our population has been shepherded leftwards, and are now largely a confederation of woke and economically illiterate dunces.
    
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    December 5, 2024 10:56am
    - Taieri
      
      We are terminally stupid here in New Zealand
      ———-
      
      The above implies that we can’t get any more stupid.
      Sorry to disappoint you, but we can.
      
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      December 5, 2024 11:50am
- Debsta
  
  It is the pointy end of a most shameful rort. And as the emperor with no clothes on (climate hoax) rolls by, the dutiful masses clap & cheer and fall into line. Meanwhile evidence and reason are burned at the stake. The whole thing does my bloody head in!
  
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  December 5, 2024 8:20am
- Jethrod
  
  Further on that …. Lurpak, a butter brand in UK has dropped from £7 a pack to 44p because of concerns about a Bovaer cancer caused by methane-reducing cow feed introduced to help the climate. Shades of things to come I NZ?
  
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  December 5, 2024 8:28am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    That might be so, but as far as I can see those “concerns” are coming from lunatics on social media claiming wokeness and Bill Gates as evidence. By all means, present scientific studies to back up your claims of cancer-causing cow feed, and put it up against the testing performed by regulatory bodies. These idiots need to look at the damage they’re causing the farmers and then take a long hard look at themselves.
    
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    December 5, 2024 12:49pm
- kowtow
  
  War on farmers.
  
  Just like the war on cars .
  
  These are just two fronts on the war on freedom by the neo marxists seeking to control all aspects of our lives .
  
  Pity National are part of it.
  
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  December 5, 2024 8:28am
  - Burtland
    
    what will NZ will look like after the group think woke wars ?
    – no one seems to ask the question
    Carr knows but doesnt let on
    
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    December 5, 2024 10:53am
- cmm
  
  While you’re on the right track, I don’t think your numbers are accurate.
  
  One CO2 molecule turns into one methane (CH4) molecule.
  Molar masses are approximately:
  C : 12g
  O: 16g
  H: 1g.
  Therefore:
  1 mol of CO2 is approx (12 + 2 x 16) = 44g.
  1 mol of CH4 is approx (12 + 4 x 1) = 16g
  So the ratio is more like 3:1 than 10:1.
  
  However in a ruminant animal only a small amount of the out flowing carbon is in the form of methane. Most is in the form of:
  * Breathed out CO2.
  * Pooed out undigested materials.
  * Protein, fats and sugars in the form of animal products: meat, milk, wool, hides and bones etc.
  
  Almost all that carbon was harvested from the atmosphere by photosynthesis.
  
  To get excited about an unmeasurable amount of theoretical temperature rise is beyond ridiculous.
  
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  December 5, 2024 8:38am
  - Tomtoddy
    
    cmm. It takes 10 units of CO2 to grow enough grass for a cow to produce one unit of methane. I agree with your other comments.
    
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    December 5, 2024 8:49am
- BananaLlama
  
  I’m not the smartest chap but i am pretty sure everyone is taught how photosynthesis works or do politicians go to special schools?
  
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  December 5, 2024 8:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Politicians go to indoctrination schools.
    
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    December 5, 2024 9:31am
    - imalwaysright
      
      …with the rest of the children.
      
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      December 5, 2024 10:40am
  - kowtow
    
    Everyone is tort de burds and de bees , and look at how that’s turned out .
    
    How many PM’s across the west refuse to define a woman .
    
    Nuf said.
    
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    December 5, 2024 9:39am
  - cmm
    
    When they say “follow the science”, they mean the One True Science – political science.
    
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    December 5, 2024 10:54am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Good news.
  
  Govt considers its obligations as panel recommends cutting 2050 climate target
  
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/todd-mcclay-agriculture-minister-on-the-panel-recommending-new-zealand-reduce-its-2050-climate-target/
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:12am
  - Chris Nisbet
    
    Life is tough enough without inflicting unnecessary burdens on the people.
    Even if it was true that increased CO2 concentrations make the weather markedly different, we’d be more able to cope with the slightly warmer weather if we were a wealthy country, as opposed to one that was impoverished by crippling energy prices and a wrecked agricultural industry.
    
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    December 5, 2024 1:05pm
- otago-man
  
  Well put Tomtoddy, the same amount of methane produced by cows in a year is also broken down by sunlight and electrical storms into co2, there is no increase year on year. also not taken into account is the carbon content of milk, meat and wool , all taken from the atmosphere through the grass on an annual basis
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:20am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yesterday Chuck Bird posted about the Methane Science Accord.
  I found it interesting.
  
  https://methane-accord.co.nz/
  The Methane Deception.
  
  Ruminant Methane – a Layman’s Explanation.
  https://methane-accord.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Ruminant-Methane-A-Laymans-Explanation.pdf
  https://methane-accord.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Ruminant-Methane-A-Laymans-Explanation.pdf
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:27am
- Matt Long
  
  ANZ has done the right thing regarding farm emissions targets for borrowers.
  https://www.thepost.co.nz/business/360480493/anz-bucks-big-bank-trend-not-setting-dairy-emissions-target
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:40am
- Matt Long
  
  The EPA is attempting to poisen the well for Trump and set up cushy roles for themselves, by giving billions to climate activist NGOs before Biden’s administration finally shuffles off stage, according to project veritas.
  https://x.com/Project_Veritas/status/1863960384513753213
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:44am
- Handyman
  
  Well put.
  
  I am waiting for a nz aoc type to point out that to turn C into CO2 requires stealing oxygen from the atmosphere. Omg, we are all going to die due to lack of oxygen!
  As you say, not many people understand natural cycles, and it shows.
  
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  December 5, 2024 10:12am
Yvette

Is ‘judicial activism’ skewing Treaty law – or are court critics the real radicals?

Summary –
ACT Party leader David Seymour’s Treaty Principles Bill aims to counter “judicial activism,” claiming judges and bureaucrats have distorted the Treaty of Waitangi’s meaning. Allegations of judicial overreach, described as judges exceeding their constitutional role, are not new and have been contentious in countries like the US, UK, and New Zealand since the 1980s. Recent criticisms, including from think tanks and politicians, accuse New Zealand’s Supreme Court of overstepping its constitutional bounds. However, others argue judicial decisions reflect cautious, incremental developments rooted in precedent. Critics warn restricting courts’ interpretative roles risks politicizing the judiciary and undermining its independence.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/535519/is-judicial-activism-skewing-treaty-law-or-are-court-critics-the-real-radicals

Isn’t the last bit – warning “risks politicizing the judiciary and undermining its independence” a little late – have the judiciary not shown they have politicised themselves?

And I imagine, of all professions, one hardest to admit they have got their judgements wrong, is the judiciary?
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December 5, 2024 8:06am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Men have it so much worse than women.

https://babylonbee.com/news/9-ways-men-have-it-so-much-worse-than-women?
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December 5, 2024 8:07am
- MCōs
  
  Quite right if you forget about Steve Adams, Chris Woods, Steve Alker, Danny Lee, Trent Boult, Scott Dixon, Joseph Parker and Ryan Fox the top ten Kiwi money earning sportspeople are all women.
  
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  December 5, 2024 8:31am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    So what you’re saying is that 55% of our top 18 earning sportspeople are women? That’s not equitable!
    
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    December 5, 2024 8:41am
  - hookerphil
    
    And if you find that equivalent female in a similar sport – find also the spectator numbers live and TV for both.
    
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    December 5, 2024 8:49am
    - pdm
      
      Maybe Golf hooker,
      
      Because of Lydia Ko I suspect that LPGA has a very large following in NZ – particularly when she is playing well and in contention.
      
      In contrast it is a lot harder to find coverage of Steven Alker.
      
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      December 5, 2024 9:15am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Remember the full stadiums for the Womens Rugby World Cup?
      A month later there were more players than spectators.
      What happened to the wave of popularity led by the women?
      Mens rugby under threat!! etc.
      
      The same women who couldn’t be arsed getting out of bed to go and watch a club game…
      
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      December 5, 2024 9:18am
      - OlderChas
        
        Could have been something to do with all the free tickets handed out.
        
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        December 5, 2024 11:26am
  - RoboRob
    
    We all know why men tend to earn more in sports, it’s the viewer numbers. When female sports have similar or bigger numbers, the earnings rise to match of beat men. Examples of this are tennis and figure skating.
    
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    December 5, 2024 8:53am
    - MCōs
      
      Mister O contends “men have it so much worse than women”
      That’s what I was responding to.
      
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      December 5, 2024 9:37am
      - Matt Long
        
        I think Steve, at least, understands the Bee is not literally news.
        
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        December 5, 2024 9:47am
      - RoboRob
        
        @Matt
        
        There might also be a grain of truth there too! We often here about woman being hard done by, its nice to point out that its not all one way:)
        
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        December 5, 2024 10:10am
      - graham
        
        Matt Long:
        
        I think MCos didn’t bother opening the link.
        
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        December 5, 2024 11:48am
    - slijmbal
      
      Arguably men are underpaid in tennis as women get same prize money for playing less tennis. However, women’s tennis gets watched more (<20% more). Interestingly, the top endorsement $ go to men – again not massively so and a handful of tennis players (men and women) get the bulk of endorsements. Must admit I expected women to get more endorsements because of the opportunity to get in to the fashion side.
      
      Tried to find an article analysing the viewer numbers and $s I read a couple of years back but no joy. What I did take from it then was women tended to get paid more per 'viewer' in general as, except for a minority of sports, viewership of women's sports was abysmal. I suspect this is slowly changing but it's still very common to see empty stadiums for women's sport and even top end and highly watched sports like football in the UK have relatively crap viewership numbers.
      
      From a personal perspective I generally find women's tennis more interesting than men's – less of the serve dominated matches but still cannot watch women's rugby or football because of the skill levels.
      
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      December 5, 2024 9:38am
- Haast
  
  Your’re right, ruminants take CO2 out of the atmosphere as they eat grass. Some of this gets excreted and some is used to produce the methane that comes out the other end. It’s called the carbon cycle. But this cycling of carbon is never taken into account in the official discussion of methane emmissions from farming. The atmospheric methane produced by NZ’s farm animals would be in a steady state, thanks to this carbon cycle. In fact it should even be decreasing as the number of farm animals decline (thanks carbon farming).
  
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  December 5, 2024 8:37am
  - Matt Long
    
    The scientists so take the carbon cycle into account, their model is that methane’s effect as a greenhouse gas, and its halflife mean it is much worse than the atmospheric CO2 from which it is derived.
    Some people don’t have a lot of faith in their modelling…
    
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    December 5, 2024 9:53am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  And are you expecting women to do something about that?
  
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  December 5, 2024 12:08pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Proof that Climate Change is real.
Believe it or you’re going to science prison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aULpPtFp6QI
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December 5, 2024 8:08am
RRM

I saw a meme today that suggested United Healthcare’s claim decline rate is twice the industry average, and that has to be related to the assassination of their CEO Brian Thompson at a shareholder presentation in NYC.

Does anyone know?
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December 5, 2024 8:09am
- imalwaysright
  
  I’ve heard that some of the health insurance companies’ claim exclusion clauses are extremely draconian.
  Good faith customers wanting to claim can find themselves out in the cold very quickly.
  Saw a documentary on one company whose policy was to initially decline every claim!
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:43am
Grunter

I’ve been reading some of the findings and conclusions from the recently released US COVID inquiry. Pretty much confirms most ‘conspiracy theories’ as being true. Masks, social distancing, lockdowns, lab originating, vaccines don’t work (much), school closings……

All turn out to be Government BS.

Personally, the biggest benefit from the entire Covid years is I will never believe a word from Governments. Nor Big Pharmaceutical companies.
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December 5, 2024 8:09am
- imalwaysright
  
  Don’t forget the media, without whom the scam would have been impossible.
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:20am
  - kowtow
    
    This is so important.
    
    The media claim a special place in society on the basis that they hold power to account .
    
    But now they are partners ( even subsidised by) of govts , lefty ones anyway ,across the west (to a greater or lesser extent).
    
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    December 5, 2024 12:51pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  The covid vaccines worked fine. The problem in New Zealand is most folk got two shots and gave up. If you are over 50 years old you should, by now, have had seven shots. If you had, you would be very unlikely to have got COVID.
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:46am
  - Matt Long
    
    Vaccines have varying levels of effectiveness, for example until recently the Whooping cough vaccine had a high level of effectiveness but the side effects were regarded as too high. (Or another vaccine was more profitable. )
    The current Pertussis vaccine loses effectiveness very quickly, and this is probably one of the leading reasons for current Whooping Cough outbreaks.
    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/protection-from-the-tdap-vaccine-doesnt-last-very-long-201602099202
    
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    December 5, 2024 10:04am
  - Anthony Melchett
    
    If you need to take seven shots of something it’s not really a vaccine is it?
    
    I’m not taking one shot of something with no long term safety data, let alone seven.
    
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    December 5, 2024 10:25am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Who says that it is not a vaccine?
      
      How many flu shots have you had? In my case about 25. The last time that I had influenza was when I did not get the influenza vaccine. How surprising 🤔
      
      The reality is that misinformation about covid vaccines has cost millions of lives. It has also resulted in avoidable serious illness.
      
      Many commenters here rightly point out the folly of relying on te ao Maori medical practices which have not been tested for efficacy. However believing vaccine myths is just as unwise. In fact as we have seen far more damaging.
      
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      December 5, 2024 10:56am
      - imalwaysright
        
        “The reality is that misinformation about covid vaccines has cost millions of lives. It has also resulted in avoidable serious illness.”
        
        Now you are getting it….We have been saying this for years.
        Give up on the jabs before you suffer side effects.
        
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        December 5, 2024 11:26am
      - Don Beckett
        
        imalways
        
        Benedict has had all the shots & has had no side effects, so it is obviously compatible for him, so it is wrong to suggest he should give it up.
        Personal decisions for all of us.
        
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        December 5, 2024 12:52pm
      - Anthony Melchett
        
        How many flu shots have you had?
        
        None.
        
        I would rather watch people who do take it get sick all winter and state how lucky they are they got the flu shot while I don’t get sick at all. Go figure.
        
        Regarding the covid shot, I don’t see the point in injecting an unknown substance to possibly prevent me from what was the mildest cold I have ever had. It’s utter madness to keep doing this with the disease now so mild.
        
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        December 5, 2024 12:52pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Don,
        I’m just looking out for my fellow man, but I appreciate your point.
        
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        December 5, 2024 1:09pm
  - rouppe
    
    I’ve had three. The initial two, and first booster. I did it mainly so I could travel internationally. So the last one was some years ago. I’m 62.
    
    I have had COVID once. That was because I was cooped up in an airplane for 18 hours around Christmas 2023. Then aged 61.
    
    Lethargic, lost appetite, runny nose, about 10 days mainly because I thought it was a cold picked up walking around Prague in the rain.
    
    Any protection from the vaccinations I did have probably long lost. So “by now anyone over 50 should have…” is basically propaganda because the effect of catching COVID was not serious enough to be constantly injecting myself with a product that the manufacturers absolve themselves of any responsibility for.
    
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    December 5, 2024 10:32am
    - Taieri
      
      I’ve had three. The initial two, and first booster.
      ———-
      
      Same here. I got them so I could work.
      My work involved lots of travel, but I’ve been lucky not to get Covid so far.
      May partner also had three jabs. Got Covid this year when she was overseas. Pretty mild it was.
      Her sister had the initial three jabs followed by regular booster shots. Had Covid three times.
      
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      December 5, 2024 11:56am
    - MCōs
      
      Bloke I know who died from covid sends his best wishes
      
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      December 5, 2024 1:23pm
      - rouppe
        
        Did you get the ouija board out, then?
        
        Be fearful if you want. I won’t.
        
        I had a collapsed lung in 2016. Left lung a bit compromised now with residual fibrosis. Doctors told me not to trek Everest Base Camp because I could get a pulmonary embolism and die.
        
        I asked for any evidence of its likelihood. Couldn’t give any. Got a high res CT to look for evidence. Couldn’t find any but they still insisted the risk was real.
        
        I did it anyway. In part because I didn’t want to live the rest of my life not doing things out of fear. To get a monkey off my back.
        
        An experience I’ll never forget. Put at risk because the injury could cause that. Not because the injury did cause that.
        
        By contrast I’ve had 3 knee meniscus operations. One caused by starting to run for fitness. PT was trying to organise some park run stuff. I said no. Because I have had knee operations, caused by that specific activity, and with less meniscus than before I’ll likely get another injury there.
        
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        December 5, 2024 2:43pm
    - Hard Cheese
      
      How is it propaganda? You’re 61, you had relatively mild symptoms for 10 days. How do you know next time it won’t be a lot worse? Everyone can assess their own risk, but obviously a lot of unvaccinated people died of COVID who didn’t think they were at any risk.
      
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      December 5, 2024 1:29pm
      - rouppe
        
        How do I know next time it won’t be a lot worse?
        
        If there is a next time, I don’t. No one does.
        
        Why do you think next time it will be? I refuse to go about my life living in fear of what might happen.
        
        Especially when those warnings come from bureaucrats and politicians who quite clearly lied. The predictions they came up with were complete fabrications. Plenty of PPE Bloomfield said. Bollocks. Head of the queue for vaccine stock Ardern said. Bollocks. Then the cover up attempt of “the pacific nations need them more than us”. Boll. Ocks.
        
        As it happens I’m leaving for Europe again in January for some more skiing in Switzerland. We’ll see how that goes. Emirates via Dubai this time, instead of SIA via Singapore. Could have caught it there the first time actually.
        
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        December 5, 2024 2:29pm
  - Sparrow
    
    Benedict could you please explain this to me. I have a small circle of friends. A number of them have never had the vaccine and have never had Covid. Another had one jab and has had heart problems ever since. Another has had all the jabs and got Covid because was at a meeting with a person brewing Covid. I know its a small sample but everybody has responded in different ways. The claim that the vaccine even if you have every jab prevents Covid is unquestionably false.
    
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    December 5, 2024 11:27am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      The plural of anecdote is not data. And the claim is not that the vaccine prevents Covid. The claim is that it will make it less bad if you do catch it.
      
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      December 5, 2024 12:10pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Sparrow,
      the only explanation that answers everyone’s questions of who didn’t get what and why is that there was no pandemic at all.
      The whole thing was a sham promoted by governments through a prostituted media.
      
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      December 5, 2024 1:14pm
  - Inandout
    
    BY, anyone landing on this site and reading your comments would think you worked for Pfizer. Look I had the practically compulsory 2 covid shots and declined any more. As for the annual flu jabs well my wife and I discontinued them about 6 years ago and have not had even a sniffle since. When I was taking them annually often I got quite severe flu after receiving the vaccine. If you think they work for you then fine.
    
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    December 5, 2024 11:34am
  - Ehlana
    
    I think most people think of a vaccine as something you take and then you don’t get the illness. That was our childhood experience of them.
    
    Our experience was also that most people didn’t react badly to vaccines.
    
    Neither seems to have been the case with the Covid shots.
    
    Handling Covid called for skilled communication of nuanced and changing reality. It might have been hard to do, but the damage from not doing is arguably worse – a lot of people who no longer trust others.
    
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    December 5, 2024 12:07pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Ehlana,
      Well said. You are correct.
      
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      December 5, 2024 1:20pm
  - Fender
    
    The covid vaccines worked fine,
    what a load of tosh
    despite the fact that originally it was gospel science that 2 was sufficient
    your saying everyone who has had the 7, none of them got covid, that’s just not true both my parents prove that’s a lie along with a few of the people I work with, if you are under 50 how many are you supposed to have? if you are a child, If you still got covid after 2 shots was your own fault because you didn’t wait the necessary 2-3 odd years for the remaining 5 to be organised.
    for someone who studies statistics I don’t follow how you equate your single unusual experience as the norm and say anyone who follows your advice is guaranteed covid free and safe. It defies logic when I try to understand your usual sane viewpoints to keep sticking to this outlier example or your own experience. You certainly are a mystery sir.
    
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    December 5, 2024 1:02pm
- Matt Long
  
  President Trump has announced that all military members who were discharged for refusing the COVID mandate will be reinstated and receive full back pay, along with a formal apology from the United States Government.
  https://x.com/JDVanceNewsX/status/1863944491440242717
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:54am
  - imalwaysright
    
    The man is a legend.
    
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    December 5, 2024 11:33am
  - MCōs
    
    What about those who were denied service due to bone spurs?
    
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    December 5, 2024 1:41pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

This seems a reasonable approach. Any man who has gone through puberty is unable to play on the LPGA tour.

Surely a blueprint for other sports.

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/535722/new-lpga-gender-policy-bars-players-who-have-gone-through-male-puberty
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December 5, 2024 8:11am
Yvette

Māori lawyer goes viral for educating people on Treaty Principles Bill
Riana Te Ngahue (Ngāti Porou), a young Māori lawyer, has gone viral on social media breaking down complex kaupapa and educating people on Treaty Principles Bill.
Riana Te Ngahue’s bite-sized breakdowns of complex Māori issues are educating audiences far beyond Aotearoa.
Māori lawyer goes viral for educating people on Treaty Principles Bill

______

Peter Williams has his copy –
https://peterallanwilliams.substack.com/p/update-a-book-of-waitangi

• It is barely 30 pages [so about a $1 a page], is comprised of simplistic language and unsupported claims and is the kind of pamphlet that might be appropriate for children at the oldest in years 7 and 8, the intermediate school level.

I guess Peter means the reading and comprehension age there, not the appropriate age to receive propaganda.

• Smail’s booklet tries to explain the Treaty Principles and state what she believes them to be in 2024. According to her, they are:

Kawanatanga – the Crown has the right to govern only British and Tangata Tiriti;
Tino Rangatiratanga – Māori have a right to self-determination;
Partnership – Māori and the Crown are equal partners;
Active Protection – the Crown should actively protect Māori;
Options – Māori have the option to do things in their own way;
Equity – outcomes for Māori are to be equitable to Tangata Tiriti
Redress – the Crown must right the wrongs it has done to Māori.

Not once does the book consider that most who can claim to be Māori descent are of mixed ethnicity. Ms Smail is using her publication to push the case for those with some Māori ancestry to have special rights and privileges through her version of the Treaty Principles.

This is the whole rationale behind David Seymour’s Bill. He wishes to do away with any special rights and privileges for one group of people and have a society where everyone’s rights are equal.

That Roimata Smail’s book is allowed in our secondary schools is appalling. It is pure indoctrination with facts that can be historically challenged.
______

And some deluded benefactor is ensuring one copy is sent to every secondary school in the country?
Will there be a scramble to read the book, or will a page a day be read at school morning assembles (do they still have those?)

New Zealand’s secondary school system has 374 secondary schools as of 2023..
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December 5, 2024 8:13am
- Paulus
  
  And the writer is a Wahine so must be the right thing to do !
  Did she pay for all her education at University or did I as a Taxpayer ?
  
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  December 5, 2024 2:12pm
kowtow

The latest front that te meedia paahti have opened in their relentless war on the taxpayer is , wait for it , how cruel it is that fat cat well paid ,nine to five , office worker , indoor public servants have to fork out for their oh so hard earned Christmas piss up!

Does this show how very out of touch te meedia are from the average New Zealander on struggle street or farm facing huge rates , insurance , utility bills, inflation ,over regulation and/or the unemployment that Labour /Green policies have brought them.

Oh and given te meedia’s incessant attacks on our culture and civilisation , including Christmas ( and partying groping shenanigans involving “misogyny”) surely the demise of Christmas parties is not something to rue but to celebrate .

Innit.
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December 5, 2024 8:14am
- pdm
  
  kowtow – when I worked at the BNZ 1964 to 1982 we always paid for our own Christmas Parties. I do not remember the bank itself ever contributing.
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:20am
  - Paulus
    
    I remember our office Social Department paying at Christmas with donations from membership small fees during the year.
    
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    December 5, 2024 2:14pm
- Burtland
  
  when do we have the debate on the taxing of maori charities
  – why do they get a say in the running of NZ if they pay no tax
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:41am
  - Paulus
    
    As it is Maori we do not get any say in any changes – there are many tens of thousands of Maori named Charities on the Charities list I saw a few years ago.
    
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    December 5, 2024 2:17pm
Swifty

These people think we’re stupid.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/535669/government-s-marsden-fund-cuts-all-humanities-social-sciences-research-funding-slashed

“Critical research…….vital to the nation’s well being…..blah blah blah…”

Have they not seen the absolute dross taxpayers have been funding in recent years? DPF has put up tens of examples of not only not critical research, but total hobby stuff of no value to New Zealanders whatsoever.

“Critical studies into the benefits to Taiwanese hill tribe people of singing indigenous songs while doing the dishes.”

“One coconut, two coconuts – the history and evolution of Keralan Indians adding coconut milk to their curries.”

These study names are made up by me, but I’ve seen Marsden grants to equally ridiculous and valueless studies.

And these are ‘vital’, ‘critical to our nation’?

What rot. These people are taking the piss.

They take us for bloody fools.
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December 5, 2024 8:31am
- imalwaysright
  
  Swifty
  
  “They take us for bloody fools.”
  
  Yes they do, because they have a very good chance of being correct.
  Most people have no idea of what is happening under their noses unless they are told by the government or the media.
  Smiling zombies.
  
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  December 5, 2024 11:38am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Why did you feel the need to make something up, if you’ve seen actual examples?
  
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  December 5, 2024 12:16pm
  - Swifty
    
    I was taking the piss Dudley – is that alright with you?
    
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    December 5, 2024 1:39pm
G152

The Earth is recovering from an Ice Age.
Of course its going to get warm and ice will melt
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December 5, 2024 8:36am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  But if you pay more Tax the melting can be stopped – and the heat from the sun stopped.
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:40am
  - kowtow
    
    Taxes and regulations are very effective on planetary and solar orbital and precession cycles as well as axial tilts.
    
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    December 5, 2024 11:24am
- MCōs
  
  “The Earth is recovering from an Ice Age.
  Of course its going to get warm and ice will melt”
  
  There you have it!
  Global warming for ultra Dummies who can’t concentrate beyond one sentence of generally no more than two syllable words
  
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  December 5, 2024 2:25pm
Yvette

Science Minister Judith Collins has announced the Govt’s Marsden Fund will back only science that directly backs economic benefits.

Comment: Well, its official. The word has come down from on high. According to the Beehive, cabinet ministers don’t need evidence-based insights into the needs and experiences of New Zealanders, or the lives of human beings in general.
They already have perfect knowledge of these matters.
The sheer improbability of this is breathtaking. It is also a breach of the coalition agreements. There, the Government promised that its decision-making would be principled, accountable, democratic, people-focused and evidence-based.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/12/05/anne-salmond-govt-de-funding-the-mind/

In referencing Kiwiblog, click on the little magnifying glass top of the page, input ‘Marsden Fund’, and these are the first four projects mentioned –

• This study will be the first to systematically study how mōteatea (traditional chants or laments) can be used as either alternative modes of therapy, or to compliment existing clinical approaches. This is a move toward centring the promotion of wellbeing as opposed to the treatment of illness.
• This study will use wānanga, workshops, and interviews to reveal the importance traditional clothing making has in transmitting knowledge, preserving traditions, and fostering connection.
• This research will develop a new model of Aotearoa New Zealand’s economy, challenging assumptions around safe depletion. It will do this by combining concepts from Te Ao Māori and contemporary economic methods.
• This research project will investigate current and historical relationships between Māori people and government tax, with the aim of proposing new, Te Tiriti-affirming tax systems.

Gone? Good
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December 5, 2024 8:37am
- Haast
  
  Have a look through these Fund recipients and spot the useless research we fund. https://www.royalsociety.org.nz/what-we-do/funds-and-opportunities/marsden/awarded-grants/marsden-fund-awards-2024/
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:13am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’ve been looking further back… 2018 and 2019.
    
    That’s enough time for the researchers to have completed their research (funded for 3 years) and started to publish their results.
    
    I’m wondering if the Marsden Fund folk have kept tabs on all their grant recipients and could publish a list of all the completed studies and links to the research publications…..
    
    For how else is Joe Public to gauge whether the social science /humanities research is taxpayer money well spent?
    
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    December 5, 2024 11:32am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Good point.
      It seems that whatever level of due diligence, necessary to be done, happens at the application stage.
      
      Maybe there is a Marsden Fund Research Library where the research paid for by the fund is published in the public interest?
      
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      December 5, 2024 11:44am
- MCōs
  
  In the meantime one of the new charter schools is the North West Creative Arts College
  
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  December 5, 2024 2:32pm
Maggy Wassilieff

RNZ tries to put a positive spin on NZ pupils’ appalling scores in International Maths and Science tests

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/535700/boys-bring-nz-higher-in-major-international-maths-and-science-test
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December 5, 2024 8:42am
Maggy Wassilieff

Does “cooking the books” mean fraudulent behaviour or not?

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/ayesha-verrall-labour-health-spokesperson-defends-accusations-against-health-commissioner-lester-levy/

Perhaps it is time for Ayesha Verrall to spill the beans.
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December 5, 2024 8:47am
- Swifty
  
  The nasty party being nasty.
  
  Again.
  
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  December 5, 2024 8:51am
- pdm
  
  I got the clear impression last evening that Lester Levy is likely to sue for Defamation.
  
  If he does she will have to come up with proof or pay up.
  
  I fancy it will be the latter.
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:01am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’d like Lester Levy to “lift the lid” on what the money spent on setting up the Maori Health Authority achieved.
    
    Many will say that the Māori Health Authority was still in its infancy. I would refute that statement. After 18 months in transition, under the guidance of a transition unit, before enablement in July 2022, and then given a further 18 months after that, this infant needed to be up on its feet and walking; despite the best efforts of staff, it was not. It is not clear to me that the Māori Health Authority was ever actually supported properly by the previous Government, who, in my view, were distracted by wider structural reforms to other parts of the health system. I believe the transition unit and previous Government has much to answer for in this failed implementation.
    
    https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20240227_20240227_32
    
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    December 5, 2024 9:29am
    - Swifty
      
      Wouldn’t surprise me in the least – Labour were total bunglers with anything to do with actual delivery or implementation and I don’t see why the Maori Health Authority would be any different.
      
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      December 5, 2024 9:44am
    - Hugh Jarse
      
      It would also be interesting to see where all the Covid funding dedicated for Maori during the Covid response went, close to a billion if I recall.
      
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      December 5, 2024 10:08am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Over $1100 each. And that was over a year before the cash and voucher schemes for getting jabbed with an untested substance.
        
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        December 5, 2024 11:56am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Pretty sure on last nights news she is converted my parliamentary privilege, he did not help himself after it was found future redundancy costs will be pushed on the previous ears books meaning labour, let’s not forget the last Labour budget and funding finished this year on June 10
    
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    December 5, 2024 9:53am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Nope, she repeated the claim on ZBtalkback….check my link above … but she tried to argue that “cook the books” doesn’t mean what the general public think it means or most dictionaries offer as meaning of this idiom:
      
      cook the books
      
      to change numbers dishonestly in the accounts (= financial records) of an organization, especially in order to steal money from it
      
      https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/cook-the-books
      
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      December 5, 2024 11:38am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Cook the books means safe and effective !!!
        
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        December 5, 2024 11:58am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    “If he does she will have to come up with proof or pay up.”
    
    I think is will be we will pay up like was the case with Mallard.
    
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    December 5, 2024 10:00am
  - MCōs
    
    Two points
    It seems he’s unable to sue her due to parliamentary privilege, which is a tactic various MPs have used down through the years
    It he was to sue he would need to produce evidence proving she was defaming him and that would be interesting
    
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    December 5, 2024 1:05pm
    - MCōs
      
      Regarding Dr Levy’s past
      https://tuesdayclub.nz/an-analysis-of-lester-levys-performance-in-health/
      
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      December 5, 2024 1:17pm
  - MCōs
    
    “If he does she will have to come up with proof or pay up.”
    No. He will.
    
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    December 5, 2024 2:18pm
  - G152
    
    She said it on TV shes a gone burger
    
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    December 5, 2024 2:18pm
  - Paulus
    
    Levy cannot sue I understand, as it was made under Parliamentary Privilege, being at a Select Committee.
    Just treat Verrall with her own very feministic contempt she deserves.
    She is just a nasty piece of work, like her ill mannered and educated lady colleagues, who believe that they are just so clever.
    Thank goodness I do not expect to see any of them in Government again for very many years.
    
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    December 5, 2024 2:24pm
- Burtland
  
  volatile Verrall hides behind parliamentary privilege
  – can she raze the MoH to the ground?
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Verrall is yet another dodgy leftie.
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:41am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Mid 2023 she blew over $560,000,000 on RAT tests that weren’t needed nor used. Expired.
    All the while, kiwis were dying prematurely because the Verral Regime denied them cancer drugs readily available to Australians.
    
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    December 5, 2024 9:51am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Let’s not forget she was caught out straight out lying to the people of this country when she lied and said Northland waitlists were now down to zero, and wait times. Pretty sure she was required to publicly apologise
    
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    December 5, 2024 9:55am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Female Michael Wood.
      
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      December 5, 2024 12:01pm
    - Paulus
      
      Apologies, she can’t, she is a women in Labour.
      
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      December 5, 2024 2:26pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Verrall should not be commenting on anything to do with health. She is part of the problem, not the solution. Many here will remember Verrall and Labour spending billions of extra taxpayer money on health and producing the worst outcomes we’ve seen since in modern times.
  
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  December 5, 2024 10:11am
  - Ian Boag
    
    I guess in time we will look back and remember Reti/Levy/National spending billions less taxpayer money on health and producing the best outcomes we’ve seen in modern times. 🙂
    
    Might not be this week/month/year/decade but we just need to be patient.
    
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    December 5, 2024 12:38pm
- Burtland
  
  under Angry Andy’s mentorship, Ayesha has turned from being ‘The-Great-LBGT- Hope’, to just another shrill creature in the Labour swamp
  
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  December 5, 2024 10:22am
- Libertarians are right
  
  I wonder if she’s going to question what they did in the Prefu because that broke all sorts of rules as well?
  
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  December 5, 2024 10:30am
- rjay
  
  When I was on a DHB it was an annual event to get a “shareholders Letter of Comfort” to address ongoing deficits. It’s true of any business in a similar situation. It is also usual practice, even best practice, to discuss with auditors how best to present the accounts. I’ve occasionally been dismayed at having to pay the cost of my accountant and my auditor arguing over what I thought was something immaterial.
  
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  December 5, 2024 11:18am
Tom Barker

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Do you think your Maori-Bashing Bill might have backfired on you, David? Heaven help us if racist dog-whistling is no longer the reliable vote-winner it used to be.
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December 5, 2024 8:48am
- David Garrett
  
  TB: Are you serious? Have you actually read the bloody thing? No fair minded sensible person could object to anything in it….Oh, hold on…
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:10am
  - Yabster
    
    yep- he’s the equivalent to most of the protestors- never read the bill, and didn’t know it has bugger all chance of becoming law.
    Barker is just a lefty shrill getting his jollies posting shit on KB-sad really.
    
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    December 5, 2024 9:38am
- imalwaysright
  
  Tell us how it bashes Maori?
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:29am
- Swifty
  
  Tom Barker demonstrates his ignorance yet again, he clearly doesn’t know the meaning of dog-whistling – but uses the phrase nonetheless.
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:37am
- Grunter
  
  So we are still allowed to call others on this Blog “racists”?
  
  Tom, you are truly pathetic with your view of the world.
  
  Name one aspect of the Treaty Principles Bill that is remotely racist……
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:53am
- Nukuleka
  
  Well Tom, if you’re so convinced it has backfired, what’s the harm in putting it to a referendum? Go on, Tom, have the courage of your convictions. Support a referendum on the Treaty Principles Bill.
  
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  December 5, 2024 10:20am
  - Swifty
    
    Quite right.
    
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    December 5, 2024 11:17am
- Libertarians are right
  
  What Maori bashing are you talking about?
  What racist dog-whistling?
  Bring your receipts.
  
  I’ve heard multiple Maori activists tell us what the principles are but why are they the sole arbiters on that?
  
  Personally, I think the idea that the chiefs signed the Treaty without knowing what it meant and without discussions to be BS. I also think that while they might not have had the ability to speak, read and write English at the time of the signing, many would have had the ability to put their anger at being lied to or tricked etc onto paper later in their lives. Where is this evidence?
  
  Article 3 explicitly states that everyone has the same rights and duties as English citizens which by definition puts them under Article 1. The idea that Maori wouldn’t know what it meant to be English citizens when their supposed position on Article 1 states that the Crown has the right to rule over the English citizens.
  
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  December 5, 2024 10:54am
  - Don Beckett
    
    ” I also think that while they might not have had the ability to speak, read and write English at the time of the signing.”
    Oh I think they all understood English perfectly well – remember that they had been exposed to English for decades in the Bay of Islands. They were trading across the Tasman to Sydney in the early 1800’s – they may not have been able to read or write English, but they had been in contact with English for two generations by then.
    
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    December 5, 2024 1:00pm
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Oh, I’m well aware that their argument is dodgy but I’m just pointing out that while that is a leap of faith, it’s simply impossible for none of the signees to have written down their issues with the Crown’s interpretation of the Treaty if they didn’t believe they had ceded sovereignty AFTER learning to write.
      
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      December 5, 2024 2:09pm
Bridgenag

The Hidden Link Between Seed Oils and America’s Fentanyl Crisis
Guest editorial by David Gornoski

“Are seed oils unhealthy?

Yes and no (but mostly yes). Because of the way they’re made, seed oils are typically very processed. Even worse than that, though, is they’re usually used to make ultra-processed foods — think fast food burgers and fries and anything you’d eat at a state fair or get in a package in the grocery store.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/the-hidden-link-between-seed-oils?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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December 5, 2024 8:48am
- Taieri
  
  ultra-processed foods —think fast food burgers and fries and anything you’d eat at a state fair or get in a package in the grocery store.
  ———
  
  Just about every food differing from the original form of its constituent parts is a processed food.
  Your Sunday roast is processed food. So is the fried egg on your plate. Or that steak and mushroom pie that you grabbed at the road side takeaways.
  Adding an “ultra” in front of “processed” doesn’t make fast food burger a harbinger of an instant death any more than eating a bowl of home made beef stew or a medium rare steak cooked in your own kitchen.
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:17am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Not sure fast food burgers are highly processed, the plastic cheese yes, chicken nuggets yes, but the rest of the burger is meat lettuce tomato and bread.
    
    Things in the supermarket are hugely processed, when I list my 23 kgs, anything processed was gone, apart from some bread, meat and vege is what I did and I eat a lot of meat, so the crap too much meat puts weight on is crap.
    
    Things like the stuff you get at the services station like chicken cordon Bleu and the likes of tenders are hugely processed and slow the metabolism
    
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    December 5, 2024 10:01am
  - Flossie
    
    The idea that we should eat less meat and perhaps partake of faux meat burgers etc makes me wonder. Surely that substance is ultra-ultra processed?
    
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    December 5, 2024 10:07am
    - Taieri
      
      Everything in moderation.
      Apart from faux meats of course – they are definitely not my kettle of fish.
      
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      December 5, 2024 10:39am
Swifty

I wonder what tikanga has to say about this situation?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360510261/new-welfare-sanctions-could-stop-families-paying-rent-officials-warn-minister

The MP for Tijuana and other travellers clearly believe that people should have no reciprocal obligations in return for their fellow community members supporting their lifestyles.

Really?

And any attempt to induce them to better their lives is ‘punching down’?

Really?

I wonder how pre-contact Maori dealt with malingerers?

Like almost all Neolithic societies I would suspect they had a ‘no work, no eat’ policy – essential for their survival in very tough times.

Perhaps one of our learned Maori academics might illuminate us on their historical behaviours?

Tikanga to the rescue!
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December 5, 2024 8:50am
- cmm
  
  Even full-on communism has reciprocal obligations:
  From each according to his means; to each according to his needs.
  
  I’m paying an awful lot of tax to provide the needs for a lot of people. Pity they don’t offer to come mow my lawn or pick up litter on the streets or otherwise provide what labour they have to improve society.
  
  PS: If anyone is missing a red Audi GKP775, it is dumped in our street with the window and windscreen smashed.
  
  Someone clearly needed some entertainment and the dole isn’t enough.
  
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  December 5, 2024 10:39am
  - rouppe
    
    Last time a car in that sort of condition arrived on my street it turned out the neighbours grandson had lent it “to a mate” who clearly trashed it and rolled it (or danced on the roof).
    
    Report it to the police. I think wreckers take them away for free?
    
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    December 5, 2024 12:48pm
Grunter

More COVID news….
Another scientific study concurrs with what many always suspected – the jabs are crap and are causing significant issues.

All of this evidence supports Florida Surgeon General Joe Ladapo’s call to halt COVID-19 mRNA injections due to DNA contamination

https://vigilantnews.com/post/alarming-levels-of-dna-contamination-found-in-covid-vaccines/
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December 5, 2024 8:55am
- imalwaysright
  
  It is unfortunate that some are still taking an untested substance in the vain hope that it will stop them from dying from a cold.
  
  It shows how effective the propaganda campaign was.
  
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  December 5, 2024 10:33am
greybeard

Auckland City Council is selling $1.3b of their shares in the airport, ostensibly to reduce debt , keep rates down and set aside money for future emergency use.

This sale will be the second time Auckland Council had sold a stake in the company. Last year it sold a 7% stake for $833 million.

What did they do with that $833m ???
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December 5, 2024 8:56am
- Cassandra
  
  I imagine it was treated as income. With any luck it was used to reduce debt, but somehow I doubt it.
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:28am
  - leoj
    
    Spent on cycleways?
    
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    December 5, 2024 10:33am
- kowtow
  
  ‘What did they do with that $833m’
  
  There’s a wall somewhere covered in piss.
  
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  December 5, 2024 11:16am
  - imalwaysright
    
    “There’s a wall somewhere covered in piss”
    
    Very eloquent Kow!!
    That’s hilarious.
    
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    December 5, 2024 12:05pm
- Paulus
  
  It is all in a Special Council Fund for special things as required.
  Not regular poaching, unless a Labour Council plunder it.
  
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  December 5, 2024 2:30pm
SometimesRight

DoC is proposing to charge New Zealand citizens for access to National Parks. They are also considering how to grant Iwi/Hapu preferential access due to Treaty of Waitangi obligations. Have your say at: https://www.doc.govt.nz/get-involved/have-your-say/all-consultations/2024-consultations/exploring-charging-for-access-to-some-public-conservation-land/
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December 5, 2024 9:09am
- kowtow
  
  I hope they do it.
  
  Complacent New Zealanders need a kick in the nuts to get woke.
  
  I’d also like to see maoris charged for access to other tribes ‘territory” , cos they have no rights of access if they are not from the local tribe over any other person .
  
  And how about PI’s .Will they charge them .I doubt it.
  
  This will be a tax on whites and yellows.
  
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  December 5, 2024 10:53am
- MCōs
  
  There is a discussion document with three proposals as far as I can see without reading the entire pdf
  * Charge everyone
  * Two tier system for visitors and locals
  * No charge for locals
  Discounts for kids and gold cards etc
  The government has cut funding so user has to pay, I suppose
  
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  December 5, 2024 11:25am
Chuck Bird

Not good news

National support down again in November as Government seeks to redefine the Treaty of Waitangi

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/9773-nz-national-voting-intention-november-2024?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MRU%203rd%20December%202024&utm_content=MRU%203rd%20December%202024+CID_66e323468fc82559ee426f0e3855abc4&utm_source=Market%20Research%20Update&utm_term=Read%20Full%20Article
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December 5, 2024 9:37am
- mandk
  
  There are some internal contradictions in those polling results.
  
  Support for the coalition was down, but the government confidence level was over 100 for the first time in almost three years: 104, compared to 73.5 at the time of the last election.
  
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  December 5, 2024 9:43am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  That is tgee we poll we disgust yesterday, and if people believe Nats have gone from 38.8 % two weeks ago to 28% today giving much of that support to TPM then they are deluded
  
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  December 5, 2024 10:04am
  - riffer
    
    Two different polls, and given that there have been four polls in the last two weeks I would suggest that given Curia’s poll is the only one showing the Coalition enjoying a reasonable lead either that poll is an outlier or the situation has deteriorated markedly post Hikoi.
    
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    December 5, 2024 12:45pm
- Grunter
  
  Possibly a lot of ‘Undecided’ mucking up the overall picture. Once they decide who they will vote for in 2 years time the numbers will change significantly IMO.
  
  For example, some maybe ‘Undecided’ if they will vote National or ACT.
  
  Just a hunch
  
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  December 5, 2024 11:39am
I remember when

Majority of NZ researchers see Maori Indigenous knowledge as relevant to their work – but is there a gender divide: The Conversation.
“We examined the responses of the 295 non-Maori scientists in our survey and found 56% agreed matauranga Maori should be valued on par with science.
Only 25% disagreed.
Moreover, 83% agreed scientist has a duty to consult with Maori if the research had impacts on them.
However, there was a significant gender difference: 75% of women compared to 44% of men agreed matauranga Maori should be valued on par with science.
Only 8% of women disagreed with that statement compared to 34% of men.”

Wonder how the results vary for age and also branch of science.
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December 5, 2024 9:40am
- kowtow
  
  ‘ 75% of women compared to 44% of men agreed matauranga Maori should be valued on par with science.’
  
  Idiots , given the low social standing they had in Maori culture , past and present.
  
  So much for the sisterhood.
  
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  December 5, 2024 10:49am
- mandk
  
  What survey are you talking about? And what do we know about the sample and how it was selected?
  
  I doubt very much whether many scientists who did 6+ years of study at university to get to PhD level really rate Māori folk wisdom as being on a par with their discipline.
  
  Nor do I believe that many would rate matauranga Māori as being any better than the folk wisdom the early European settlers brought with them.
  
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  December 5, 2024 11:08am
- sherp
  
  This is like asking state servants in the DPRK if they support the supreme leader…. they don’t have their job if they don’t…. go on try to get research funding in DPRA “Democratic peoples republic of Aoteroa” without placating the special indigenous people.
  
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  December 5, 2024 1:09pm
oldfella

[mods: a while since I posted. Can’t remember if I need to do anything special laying out the 3 youtube links in this post. You help is appreciated. ]

I received this recently from a retired RNZN officer friend after I alerted him to the Kiwiblog post: A HUGE BLUNDER IN THE SINKING ON HMNZS MANAWANUI. He’s happy for me to share his thoughts:
+++
The statement in the blog “This is beyond embarrassing. It is a huge people failure or training failure or both.” is correct.
One of the major contributing causes (in my humble opinion, though I’ve never served in this type of vessel) is that the bridge operation (steering etc) of MANAWANUI is vastly different to any other RNZN vessel. So yes, it probably comes down to training and familiarity.
Ships like this are operated by a helmsman sitting at the controls. No steering wheel in the traditional sense. The helmsman (I note that the Admiral referred to the ‘pilot’) is surrounded by the instruments. I guess it could be difficult for the OOW or supervising officer (if the OOW was actually doing the piloting) to monitor.
In the ship’s commercial operation the ‘pilot’ would be very experienced on this type of vessel. We do not know who was at the controls in MANAWANUI and what experience they had.
I found these which explain things pretty well (one or two picky mistakes, but generally pretty sound I think). The second one explains the operation of the vessel and what was going on:
The Royal New Zealand Navy’s HMNZS Manawanui, Grounded, Then Sank Off the Coast of Samoa – YouTube
Did Human Error Lead to the Loss of HMNZS Manawanui? Court Of Inquiry Reveals Its Interim Findings
I couldn’t find a YouTube video of the bridge of a DP vessel that wasn’t in hindi! This does indicate the typical layout though:
Navigation Bridge (Wheel house) of a DP Vessel
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December 5, 2024 10:07am
- oldfella
  
  Mods, there are 3 links in my post, but I obviously didn’t paste in the hyperlinks. Which I’ve done here. Any chance you could post these hyperlinks into the main post?
  
  The Royal New Zealand Navy’s HMNZS Manawanui, Grounded, Then Sank Off the Coast of Samoa – YouTube
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR85gqVwbWQ
  
  Did Human Error Lead to the Loss of HMNZS Manawanui? Court Of Inquiry Reveals Its Interim Findings
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNx5V4GmSdE&t=11s
  
  Navigation Bridge (Wheel house) of a DP Vessel
  https://www.youtube.com/shorts/80PLzX327AE
  
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  December 5, 2024 11:00am
- bennerg
  
  Oldfella, this might help:
  
  The Royal New Zealand Navy’s HMNZS Manawanui, Grounded, Then Sank Off the Coast of Samoa
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR85gqVwbWQ
  
  Did Human Error Lead to the Loss of HMNZS Manawanui? Court Of Inquiry Reveals Its Interim Findings
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNx5V4GmSdE
  
  Navigation Bridge (Wheel house) of a DP Vessel
  Doy our own Youtube search and take your pick!
  
  May I also add:
  
  A Dynamic Positioning Overview by Capt. R.P. Morris. AFNI. (PDF)
  https://www.nautinst.org/static/2f9c4776-bf3f-42d7-b56e6cc9ac56369f/3-Operating-the-DP-Vessel.pdf
  
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  December 5, 2024 11:16am
  - oldfella
    
    bennerg: thanks. I dropped the ball on my first attempt at posting the links, but finally figured it out. And thanks, also, for the additional material. Cheers.
    
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    December 5, 2024 11:58am
- cmm
  
  Such positioning systems are getting rather common on various work boats.
  They are an absolute must on vessels that must do precise station keeping (eg. diver and salvage support vessels), but they are also being used for other purposes. eg:
  * Dredgers following lanes while dredging.
  * Fishermen picking up/putting down rows of lobster pots.
  * Wind turbine service vessels etc which use dynamic positioning as a “virtual anchor”.
  
  On top of having both a human driver and an automatic driver, it is also common for vessels to have two or three steering positions (eg an internal bridge and an external flying bridge). It is vitally important to keep on top of which steering position or automated system is in control.
  
  One of the hardest things to get right in any system that has a mix of both automatic and human control (or even multiple human controllers) is making sure what the humans think is going on is actually what is going on. ie, that they all know who is in control. That is why there are processes of command and feedback that are core to any functioning ship.
  
  Apart from at sea there have been numerous plane crashes due to such loss of state – one that stands out is AF447.
  
  Despite there being 3 trained pilots on the flight deck, they managed to fly a perfectly airworthy plane in a perfect stall from 28,000 ft all the way to zero feet and kill everyone onboard. All the way down the plane’s stall alarm was yelling “stall, stall, stall…”. All the pilots needed to do was push the control 6 inches forward and clear the stall and everyone would have survived. But they thought the Airbus could not stall and ignored obvious signs of stalling and chose to ignore them…. all the way until they dug a hole in the ocean.
  
  The AF447 was a glaring case of the pilots not being properly trained in how the Airbus’ anti-stall system works (especially when it doesn’t work).
  
  HMNZS Manawanui was also a case of poor training and leadership. Blaming “human error” is bullshit. It just tries to hide the real problems.
  
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  December 5, 2024 1:11pm
Flossie

TVNZ are still apparently wondering why their advertising revenue has dropped so much. They have announced the departure of a couple of high profile presenters, and more of their less well known staff.
I have communicated to them that I find their very biased reporting unacceptable, not to mention how annoying I find their use of Maori language introductions etc. I am betting many other people have done likewise. Their response has been kind of “nothing to see here” so don’t see much improvement in the fortunes.
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December 5, 2024 10:16am
- Burtland
  
  the obnoxious ones have corralled themselves into a Custers-Last-Stand
  – maybe Crusher can put them out of their misery – shes found fresh form recently
  
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  December 5, 2024 10:31am
- Biscuit
  
  Flossie, cold hard numbers will succeed where your reasoning won’t.
  
  I just read that The Tame Jack Show, 9 am Sundays, drew 65.600 in the period to 24 November 2024. The average electorate quota at the last Election was 69,875. Mr Look At Me Look At My Pretty Face isn’t even worth an Otaki or a Selwyn…
  
  Finding up-to-date numbers on One News – really, One’s Version Of The News – is more difficult. I notice that they now brag that they are the ‘most trusted’ source of News but don’t give any stats to back that wild claim up.
  
  I am pretty sure that advertisers, living in the real world and probably guessing that under a million watch Simon each night, are declining to be associated with anything to do with TVNZ…
  
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  December 5, 2024 1:11pm
- Paulus
  
  As part of TVNZ TV advertising themselves they say the News “Trusted”.
  Must be mad Trusted you must be more than mad.
  Tired even of the Weather Girl using Maori names all the time.
  Even if she is quite nice.
  
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  December 5, 2024 2:36pm
vand

Benedict Yu
The covid vaccines worked fine. The problem in New Zealand is most folk got two shots and gave up. If you are over 50 years old you should, by now, have had seven shots. If you had, you would be very unlikely to have got COVID.”

BY- what is the research on your contention? Has there been a study of 7 shoters v 2 shoters?
Personally I had covid in 2020 but not since as a 2 shoter.
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December 5, 2024 10:21am
- Grunter
  
  vand – good luck debating the Covid jab with Bene…
  
  Several of us have tried many times. He still thinks the jab is actually a vaccine so the Govt Covid brainwashing still runs through him.
  
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  December 5, 2024 11:49am
cmm

Joe falls asleep in Angola.
Excuse: he struggles with the demands of international travel.

FFS: He’s not flying cattle class surrounded by screaming babies and having his toes run over by the drinks trolley.

He flies on Air Force One. There’s a bed in a bedroom with a doctor on board to prescribe sleeping pills.

Maybe he’ll wake up when they get to the 10% for the big guy bit of the conversation.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360510987/watch-joe-biden-appears-fall-asleep-meeting-african-presidents
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December 5, 2024 10:23am
- bennerg
  
  I just can’t wait for 20th January, if for nothing else to be subjected to this embarrassing behaviour, and the weasel reporting to justify it. Then they can put Joe out to pasture.
  
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  December 5, 2024 11:19am
  - Don Beckett
    
    In the dementia ward in a rest home.
    
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    December 5, 2024 11:35am
    - riffer
      
      Replacing one demented old man with another demented old man. Some choice…
      
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      December 5, 2024 12:49pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        I would suggest that Trump is much sharper than you, & an IQ much higher than yours.
        America has chosen extremely well.
        
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        December 5, 2024 1:03pm
      - mogg
        
        There is nothing demented about Trump, in the campaign alone he ran rings around Kamala with her $1B election funding. Underneath his simplistic talk there is a very shrewd operator. You have been listening to too much Oprah Windbag.
        
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        December 5, 2024 2:33pm
- rjay
  
  I’d fall asleep listening to the background speaker too
  
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  December 5, 2024 11:23am
- MCōs
  
  Joe Biden is a lame duck president. There is little for the old codger to keep awake for particularly in a place like Angola.
  He’s had a long political career that probably peaked when he was vice president, but as we know with Winston and Tim Southee some people just don’t know when it’s time to call it a day.
  
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  December 5, 2024 12:50pm
Jethrod

Further on from yesterday debate about KIWIRAIL.
In my opinion there will always be a debate that will end up so piecemeal and fractured until the question is asked:-
Why do we need KIWIRAIL.?
What is needed is a group of people with real-life experience to come up with answer. Decide if various divisions of it are needed, like ferries, longhaul rail, storage and other logistics.
Persons from all colour’s of the political spectrum. Led by someone like Rob Campbell to get the left perspective and Bill English for the right. Give them a year to do it.
So many opinions out there and really about time some HARD questions are asked and answered.
A country problem.
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December 5, 2024 11:05am
- Grunter
  
  Jethrod
  Why is it a “country problem”?
  
  If KiwiRail creates value that enough customers want to pay money for and generates a long-term commercial return, then that is the answer.
  
  To have a bunch of central planners (Rob Campbell & Bill English) debate options for a year……?!! That will prove what exactly?
  
  The only answer that has any merit is “let the market decide”
  
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  December 5, 2024 11:57am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmDDTnGZ-wg
How Trump might get Nigel Farage Elected.
It’s only as matter of time before the right wing wave in Europe and the USA reaches us with Trump back in office. [It looks like the UK has an unofficial ambassodor. Things will have to go really bad for Starmer to lose his huge majority.]
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December 5, 2024 12:20pm
- mogg
  
  Just on immigration alone Starmer is in real trouble, over 900,000 new arrivals last year, remembering that after 5 years residence they are all allowed to bring in family members from Africa, Middle East or wherever.
  
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  December 5, 2024 2:26pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrl9AEMN_BY
The Trump Curse is Real. -;)
England still has an extradition treaty with the US. So, Ellen De Generes can’t avoid awkward questions about Diddy etc. It didn’t stop her mansion being flooded. [Rob Reiners in a padded room. Robert De Niro is still crying. ]
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December 5, 2024 12:21pm
cmm

SOEs are really bad news because they stifle the public sector.

Take KiwiRail who provide an inadequate service and suck up billions of $ of taxpayer money to keep their inefficient system running.

It is virtually impossible for a private sector organization to build a competitive business case. That keeps the private sector away. It also keeps competition away and means that the economy is poorly served.

If the state really feels it must be involved (and I don’t think it should be), then it would make far more sense to subsidize private sector providers. That at least builds capabilities in the private sector, as well as allowing the subsidies to be reduced or eliminated when they are no longer required.

As an analogy, let’s consider a mythical KiwiBaker.
People need bread, so the government decides to bake bread. They have the taxpayers’ money available and can subsidize all the poor decisions KiwiBaker makes. As a result, KiwiBaker bread costs $2 per loaf (it really costs $10 to make, but the taxpayer picks up $8 per loaf) and the bread isn’t too flash.

Let’s say a quality bakery that is run efficiently could make a very good loaf of bread for $4. How are they going to do? Well they’d have a hell of a struggle because they’re battling an SOE who is selling $2 bread and who don’t have any of the cost structures associated with running a real business. The baker would realise the business plan doesn’t stack up and probably wouldn’t even start the business.

If the state really had to put its nose into baking, then it would be better to subsidise all bakers to the tune of $2 per loaf. The bakeries could then provide $4 bread for $2. There is competition, so the public get a good loaf of bread. And, most importantly, it only costs the taxpayer $2 per loaf – not $8.

KiwiRail is clearly awful. Even though we’re subsidizing them to the tune of billions, they are still out-played by other transport providers who are competing on a severely titled playing field.

I think our transport situation would be way better if KiwiRail was not cluttering up the space. It would make transport companies more viable and, likely make transport a lot cheaper (especially once you factor in the cost of subsidies).

Rinse and repeat for bus services, education and pretty much all government services.
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December 5, 2024 12:50pm
- Graeme Hall
  
  Generally agree, but if you have ever listened to the Mainfreight CEO, he is a BIG supporter of KiwiRail. Why? Because his company uses it to shift goods about the country quickly and at low cost, thanks to the taxpayer subsidising rail. MainFreight makes good profits off the existence of KiwiRail. Private companies are not stupid.
  
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  December 5, 2024 1:04pm
  - cmm
    
    Anyone using KiwiRail obviously loves the taxpayer paying their operating expenses – no different to a bus passengers loving the fact that 80% or more of bus costs are picked up by the taxpayer and they can get a bus almost any time they want for $1 (even though it costs $25 to provide it).
    
    I am really talking about proper competitions to KiwiRail.
    
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    December 5, 2024 2:52pm
Ra Henare

A good clear-out of idiot Ministry staff is overdue.

Today 5th December I received a reply to a letter I sent to Minister Louse Upton on 8th November.

While signed by the Minister(I doubt she actually read it) it was date stamped 5th November?!

As usual, 2 pages(A4) a load of waffle (most of it not addressing my letter) from the Private secretary, someone called Rikihana Dixon.
Presumably having been generated by some erk at the MBIE justifying themselves.

My letter was simple. The main paragraph.

a) The Departmental processes are in dire need of update and modernization.
While I believe Section 26 Applications (Portability) need significant review.
An immediate and short-term win can be achieved in the 6 monthly proof of life situation.
(See appendix/Attachments)

The attachment was an IT solution, vetted by an Internationally recognized IT security expert.

The solution would have automated the current manually, insecure system

The 2 paragraphs of waffle summarised.

Says no review needed
We think our current system is fine (it patently is not)

The Government complains about NZ low productivity.. Must have taken at least 2 hours to pump out this crap.

PS. I sent the same letter to the Previous Minister Sepeloni, similar response.

Reminds me of Gliding on, the documentary of life inside a ministry office.
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December 5, 2024 1:46pm

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