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December 3, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 03 December 2024

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artemisia

Herald last night Manurewa Marae data misuse claims: Investigation to report back soon on ‘sensitive issue’

Sir Brian Roche says report will be completed in the next few weeks, well past the original completion date. There are a lot of players, not surprising Sir Brian calls it complex. Agencies in the scope of the inquiry included Statistics NZ, the Ministry of Health, Health NZ, Te Puni Kōkiri, Oranga Tamariki, the Ministry of Social Development. The third party providers within scope included the Whānau Ora Commissioning Agency, Te Whānau o Waipareira Trust and Manurewa Marae Trust Board.

Maybe Nicola Willis quietly puts her finger on reason for delay – the commission needs to have confidence in its findings and that they will “live through the scrutiny of a significant amount of public challenge”.

Sounds like a hint about findings ….
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December 3, 2024 8:38am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  finger on reason for delay
  
  Oh look… NZ media is about to go on holiday for a few months.
  
  Perhaps the report will appear sometime around Friday 20 Dec, 4pm.
  
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  December 3, 2024 8:44am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    Wouldn’t matter one jot. If it is negetive they’ll ignore it and if positive they’ll promite it.
    
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    December 3, 2024 8:58am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Yes, they love their holidays, they must be exhausted the poor wee things.
    I’m predicting that next year they will have much more time off. Unpaid, thankfully.
    Useless thick bastards.
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:11am
- Im Right
  
  One agency stands out….Waipereira Trust!
  The most dodgy of all, I would not be surprised if it’s mentioned more than once for ‘practices unbecoming of a trust’
  We shall wait with bated breath?
  Probably not…..
  
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  December 3, 2024 8:47am
- sirknz
  
  Those third party providers were definitely not obfuscating things…
  
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  December 3, 2024 8:52am
Chuck Bird

This is a worry especially if it gets repeated.

New poll delivers hung Parliament, bad news for Christopher Luxon as preferred PM

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/535469/new-poll-delivers-hung-parliament-bad-news-for-christopher-luxon-as-preferred-pm
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December 3, 2024 8:40am
- Tricati
  
  Call me a cynic, but the coincidence of both this poll and the ‘leaked’ Labour internal poll showing Labour & National neck & neck just after the damming Part 1 Covid Enquiry report and the heat that has produced on Labour and Hipkins seems to much for me.
  And of course the MSM only to happy to push the narrative.
  
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  December 3, 2024 8:47am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Correct Tricarti. I saw a new poll yesterday that had Hipkins at 0% in preferred PM and Labour at 0%. I would have thought that was concerning for Hipkins and Labour.
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:54am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Have you ever heard of the polling company?
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:33am
- Im Right
  
  Ohhh Chuck…
  Politics 101, get the bad stuff out the way in first 12-18mths, then the good stuff in the final 12-18mths.
  And remember, the election is 2 years away, these polls mean nothing at this stage.
  Yes, the left will crow about the government downfall, but they were quiet when the polls showed the opposition performing badly for a whole year.
  Swings and roundabouts, roller coaster polls.
  
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  December 3, 2024 8:51am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Have you ever heard of the polling company?the most accurate polls of all 2 weeks ago showed the largest gap between the government and opposition, things don’t change this quickly
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:35am
- peterwn
  
  No different from the current situation assuming Winston is still fighting fit at the next election. Labour would be faced with putting together a four party coalition and TPM would probably be almost impossible to negotiate with.
  Also at this point in the election cycle polls mean zilch.
  On a time management basis Chris Luxon has other higher priority things to worry than striving for higher poll ratings. Labour is making mistakes (eg at their recent conference) but think everything is going their way. They will get more careless.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:00am
  - peterwn
    
    Interestingly Tim Groser was a National MP and prior to that a top trade negotiator for NZ. Years ago he noted if need be he would find negotiating with the then Maori Party would be reasonably easy compared with some trade negotiations he was involved in. I doubt he would say the same about the current TPM.
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:29am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Worry if you want, it’s your right, but it is completely pointless to worry about polls at this stage of the electoral cycle. A Government that inherits a mess that will take time to fix and can only be addressed by taking and implementing tough and politically fraught decisions, is bound to be unpopular early to mid term
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:00am
- RoboRob
  
  This is only the firs. Nat down 4 labour up 4, Luxon less popular then Hipkins. I expect the trend to be sharply down from now.
  
  This is Nationals, fuck around a find out moment. Sure they are doing the little things, like re opening cathedral cove, but all the big challenging things (Race relations, Dunedin hospital, balancing the books, cutting bureaucracy etc) are just left sitting with Luxon to afraid to take any kind of stand. Even some of the little things, like removing Maori first ministry names still hasn’t been fully done. The polls will reflect this. My hope is that things get bad enough, quickly enough, that a leader swap is forced and the new leader can get things under control before the next election.
  
  The public voted for change, not tinkering. If we want Labour policy we will vote for them.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:00am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I think you are right. Luxon asked if it fair that men who claim to be women play against real women in sport and he cannot give a simple answer NO.
    
    I bet there are plenty of Nat MPs who would have no problem answering.
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:32am
  - Jethrod
    
    Now two big items that will create a real storm of excreta…… the Picton ferries and that infernal white elephant, the CRL, the city rail link. I am guessing it will be another IT disaster.
    Hopefully 2 other announcements on the 20th December at 4.15
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:29am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  It is not a worry. The economy was always going to take much longer than a year to recover from the previous government.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:05am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Well it might be a worry if much longer means 3 years and a one term government. I find it deeply troubling that the worst government in my lifetime could be even close to being re-elected. And if TPM are in coalition I think emigration becomes a serious possibility.
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:48am
    - peterwn
      
      Chris Luxon and his team are much smarter than to be just a one term government. National has had three term governments (and a four year term under Kiwi Keith) so history is very much on National’s side in this regard.
      If Labour and the public service like to thing the current situation is only temporary and will sort itself out in their favour in 2026, that is fine. Let them bask in a false sense of security.
      
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      December 3, 2024 10:36am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      They are talking a turn around mid next year
      
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      December 3, 2024 10:40am
- Scott
  
  I think the economy needs to improve. At the moment unemployment is up and businesses and paper mills are closing and people are hurting.
  
  Given a more business friendly govt I’m hopeful that the economy will improve over the next 12 months and unemployment will go down and business confidence will go up.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:05am
  - Jethrod
    
    Really sad about the paper mills closing.They were iconic developments from the 50’s.
    Probably Caxton mill in Kawerau the only ones left of about an original 16 paper machines approx.
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:33am
- pdm
  
  Roy Morgan in next week or so will give a better perspective.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:18am
- imalwaysright
  
  Don’t trust polls.
  Look at the recent American election.
  The pollsters told everyone it was neck and neck.
  They are worse than useless.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:21am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    The US does not have MMP.
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:06am
- greybeard
  
  Rubbish poll.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:36am
  - pdm
    
    grey – I see it was an internet poll.
    
    Very convenient for geeks and Labour/Green luvvies.
    
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    December 3, 2024 11:03am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Have you ever heard of the polling company? It’s more media bullshit. Luxon stated this is not what we are seeing ( I presume he means internals) and let’s not forget two weeks ago the largest gap between the opposition and government since the election
  
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  December 3, 2024 10:31am
kowtow

NZME Herald editorial today being very ho hum about the gang patch ban.

Says most of us will never be much inconvenienced by these criminals beyond some traffic congestion.

No mention at all of the tidal wave of narcotics they peddle across the whole country and the misery , death and huge financial and social cost this brings directly or indirectly , to each and every person in this country.

Shameful and pathetic editorial stance .
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December 3, 2024 8:40am
- Chuck Bird
  
  This was in the article but no mention of drugs.
  
  “But kudos to those members for not taking bait that would have resulted in them getting harassed in front of their kids. That’s not what anyone wants to see.”
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:03am
  - kowtow
    
    Unbelievable , isn’t it . Giving credit to those drongos.
    
    Basically the editorial team of the Herald is saying it’s wrong for the police to enforce the law when children are present but it’s has been OK for all these years for criminals to wear criminal/intimidating insignia , in front of their children ,and at the school gate giving what sort of example to them , surely that’s some form of abuse , not to mention all the pearl clutching the media does around intergenerational poverty, disfunction etc
    
    Hypocrites of the lowest pond dwelling scummy type that they are.
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:16am
- Inandout
  
  kow, perhaps a reason why our MSM is dying.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:27am
- Burtland
  
  the herald calls for NZonAir to support the psychopathic battering of government
  – “theres a job for Luxon if they make a kiwi version of The Office”
  
  is there room for another crap knock-off on TVNZ?
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-governments-year-less-performativeness-more-performance-please-simon-wilson/3NIWAM6JGFFLJHMFUSBVOONRYU/
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:28am
- Eastlander
  
  Perhaps press cards deserve the same treatment as gang patches.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:50am
Tomtoddy

I missed Q and A on Sunday and only caught up with it last night. Watching Christopher Luxon get pushed and bullied around was both galling and worrying, Politics near the top is no place for “Mr Nice Guys”. Ask Jack Marshall. Even David Cunliffe,

You need an ounce or two of rat cunning and big balls are essential. You must have the ability to very quickly get control of the room – whatever that room.

Smarmy Jack Tame actually showed Luxon up for his lack of command, his inability to stamp his foot loudly and get his way, By honing in on Luxon’s opposition to the Treaty Principles Bill but inability to stop Seymour in coalition negotiations he showed up what a pussy-footing leader he is.

Luxon had no idea in advance what Tame was going to ask which showed up his lack of hard political nous and his lack of top quality comms advisors preparing for such events, It was embarrassing watching him bumble around being led like a lamb to slaughter. Tame must have been laughing and high-fiving around the studio as soon as Luxon went.

Voters can smell weak leadership. They reject it categorically. They will even dislike a personality while backing a ballsy leader. That Hipkins is anywhere close to Luxon on preferred leader is deeply concerning. The latest poll may well be wrong but it shows a disturbing trend.

Politicians are born, not made. Luxon may be a good businessman – I dont know – but he needs to sharpen up and grow some mongrel very quickly or we are looking at a one term government.
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December 3, 2024 8:41am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Sadly, I think you are right. I have put a complaint to TVNZ about the lack of balance. However, Luxon should be as good as Peters and/or Seymour.
  
  Luxon should told Tame the rules. Do not continue to interrupt me or the interview is over and I or any National MP will not be on your show.
  
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  December 3, 2024 8:57am
  - Unity
    
    I thought the interview was excruciatingly awful to watch. Jack Tame is the rudest interviewer I’ve ever seen. He asks a question and then talks over the top of the interviewee. However, I thought Luxon came across as weak. He should have put Jack Tame in his place. I’m sure David Seymour would have handled it vastly differently.
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:44am
    - Bridgenag
      
      Yes Seymour for PM
      
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      December 3, 2024 11:50am
- RoboRob
  
  100%. Luxon has been pussy footing around things which leaves him with nonsensical positions such as believing Maori ceded sovereignty but that the crown is in a partnership with Maori. Nobody respects someone who doesn’t have beliefs or positions. Kamala Harris, in part, died because nobody knew what she actually believed in. Hipkins is rating higher then Luxon because he believes in things (stupid things) and will stand up and front them.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:05am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    He is right the treaty is a partnership, two people coming together as one is a partnership, what else would you call it?
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:45am
  - pdm
    
    `……….believing Maori ceded sovereignty but that the crown is in a partnership with Maori. ‘
    
    You cannot be more contradictory than those two stances.
    
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    December 3, 2024 11:07am
- MCōs
  
  There’s no point in blaming Jack Tame if Mr Luxon was underprepared.
  I don’t think for a moment the PM was unaware of the line of questioning coming up otherwise he would have told the interviewer so, as Rob Muldoon did when he was PM.
  He floundered because he didn’t have the answers leading to numerous attempts to get him back on track as he tried to run down the clock
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Been saying this for a long time. Luxon may be a good manager but he is not a leader.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:12am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Luxon is a private sector bureaucrat, he’s not a leader, he’s weak and insipid.
    Third rate Tame threw him around the room, and rightly so.
    The “what I would say to you…” crap also has to stop.
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:32am
    - MCōs
      
      If that was “third rate” Tame our glorious leaders won’t be queuing up for “first rate” version.
      
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      December 3, 2024 10:09am
    - PurplePen
      
      What I would say to you is I agree.
      
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      December 3, 2024 10:17am
  - Burtland
    
    Two more years of the media psychopaths dissecting a live kitten
    – great real-life television drama
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:06am
  - Miritu
    
    Luxon is NZ’s Rishi Sunack.. preparing the landscape for another hard left Labour term, but it will be more ruthless like in the UK under Dictator Keir Starmer
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:39am
- greybeard
  
  How many people would watch Q&A on Sunday ?
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:28am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Fair point. I have heard enough complaints about lack of balance here to think a fair few of us do though. Personally I never watch TVNZ unless they are streaming sport on their app.
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:54am
  - hookerphil
    
    Most of the ones commenting on the poll result on Stuff this morning, seemingly.
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:27am
  - Jethrod
    
    Well there must be you and about 3 others from this blog
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:39am
    - greybeard
      
      Me? Never. I never listen to or watch Jack Tame, I don’t watch Q&A, I don’t watch TV1, I don’t listen to RNZ.
      
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      December 3, 2024 11:33am
      - Bridgenag
        
        I’m with you ….but….where do the oldies get information from? They do not know how to use their computers to get information……It is really sad to see downtrodden looking bewildered people out there. Some still wearing masks ffs Frightened to go out in case they catch something and with the once lovely operas highjacked with mobile phones, dramas highjacked with hakas, DEI etc Makes for a sad older community. Concert radio with the Gisborne girls choir thrown in. The once lovely RNZ sabotaged by the far left. etc etc
        
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        December 3, 2024 12:00pm
- Inandout
  
  Tom, I listened to Luxon on Hosking this morning and he actually cackled because he was embarrassed by a question Mike asked about the Auckland rail tunnel. As a PM he should know everything about this failed project, this shocking waste of our taxes. As a former CEO he would have been surrounded by yes men who would crow their approval at his every utterance. Luxon won’t change, he is as wet as Sydney today.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:36am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Luxon has given up on media, no ever believes these biased assholes anymore, people see right through the likes of Tame
  
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  December 3, 2024 10:43am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    “people see right through the likes of Tame”
    
    Those on the right do but not those on the left.
    
    You can see that on Q + A Facebook or YouTube
    
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    December 3, 2024 12:20pm
Yvette

• After the mass Maori Party madness over David Seymour’s Treaty Principles Bill comes more extreme Maori make-believe. Some are now calling the 83% of New Zealanders who aren’t Maori, “guests” or “visitors” to the country where they are citizens.

Condensed –
The Māori Party should focus on addressing the declining education and health outcomes of young Māori, which stem from leadership failures and substandard parenting, not colonialism or blood. Other New Zealand ethnicities prioritize their children’s health, education, and aspirations, fostering law-abiding, hardworking citizens. Instead of seeking superiority or blaming others, the party should encourage positive change within their community to build a better future for Māori, rather than attempting to undermine others.
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/michael-bassett-maori-party-madness

• Ngarewa-Packer first took aim at former parliamentarians. “I stand here as a descendant of a people who survived a holocaust, a genocide sponsored by this House and members of Parliament whose portraits still hang from the walls.”
https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2020/12/03/maori-party-leaders-make-fiery-maiden-speeches-in-parliament/

While Nazi Germany attempted the extermination of several groups by “Holocaust, and genocide”, the Maori Party would try a double act – leave vast numbers of their people suffering at the bottom of the social statistics on all fronts, while exceptionalising a chosen class to rise above all others like Aryans.

That is the Maori Party dichotomy – being in two opposite places at once – victim and victor at the same time – even a smattering of Western colonial science will explain it to be temporary, unstable, likely self-destructive, silly in the eyes of the world (when they open them) and ultimately impossible – extreme Maori make-believe
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December 3, 2024 8:44am
- Taieri
  
  “I stand here as a descendant of a people who survived a holocaust, a genocide sponsored by this House and members of Parliament whose portraits still hang from the walls.”
  ————
  
  And as an addendum…
  
  “I also stand here as a proud descendant of a people who caused a holocaust, a genocide sponsored by this house and members of Parliament.”
  
  Still plenty of exaggeration but it sounds better, with Ngarewa-Packer being at least 3/4 European and therefore being far more an oppressor than a victim…
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:00am
  - kowtow
    
    What’s the indigenous , non colonial settler, Maori scientific word for schizophrenia.
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:39am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Which iwi does Packer affiliate to, and which massacres were they responsible for?
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:55am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Exactly. I’m well sick of listening to people bitching that one of their ancestors did something to another of their ancestors nearly 200 years ago.
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:58am
  - PurplePen
    
    Well, not to mention her ancestors nearly holocausted their own in the musket wars.
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:24am
- Eastlander
  
  They imagine they can overthrow the country and rule it themselves. Arithmetic was never their strong suit.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:59am
Maggy Wassilieff

Michael Bassett writes the words that must not be read or spoken:

The Treaty didn’t give Maori any special right to lord it over non-Maori. If they are worried, as they should be, about the declining educational and health status of too many young Maori then they ought to start working out why this is the case. They’ll find it has nothing to do with colonialism, nor blood. Rather it is the result of years of their leadership overlooking sub-standard parenting among too many of those who choose to call themselves Maori. Today, all other ethnicities in New Zealand do a better job at looking after their children’s health, getting them to school, monitoring their homework, teaching them to look after themselves, and encouraging them to aspire to improve themselves by being law-abiding, working citizens.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/michael-bassett-maori-party-madness
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December 3, 2024 8:47am
- Spam
  
  monitoring their homework
  
  What? Homework? That’s a quaint concept. Homework was stopped because it’s inequitable.
  
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  December 3, 2024 8:52am
  - lifesgood
    
    Grandson has plenty of homework. Some schools and teachers are just slack and lazy.
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:11am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Teacher aide friend was told not to mark work wrong as it makes the pupils sad…
      
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      December 3, 2024 9:36am
      - Bridgenag
        
        A daughter of one of the Blokes at Bowls said a part timer came and talked about leadership…….i.e. rivers ffs
        
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        December 3, 2024 12:02pm
  - kowtow
    
    Homework ?
    
    Decolonise the curriculum !
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:23am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Welfare is making it much worse though. A generous welfare system that rewards production of children by people who are not capable of raising them properly, is exactly what you would do if you wanted to keep those in the bottom group of society from getting ahead. White people did that to Maori and are still doing it.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:28am
  - Yabster
    
    you were doing so well until the last sentence… white people are making maori take the benefit etc- I assume you mean the Government?- surely you’re not meaning the previous Labour Govt that was control by the Maori caucus?
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:47am
Yvette

Hikoi from hell?
• ‘I ripped that in half and chucked it away’ – Hana-Rāwhiti delivers speech after world-shaking haka
“This march was never about the bill. This march is about us, walking, marching, side by side, generation by generation. This bill divides us as a country; the Treaty unites us, all ages, all races,” the MP said.

“We’ve seen our people run, cook, pōwhiri, usher, drive, walk, traffic control, police, Māori warden, banner holders, ringawera, videographers, all ages, and all different races coming together for te Tiriti o Waitangi.”

She called for the Māori in the crowd to switch to the Māori electoral roll. If every single Māori person registered on the Māori roll, we would have 20 automatic Māori seats in Parliament.”
Currently, there are only seven Māori seats in the House of Representatives.

Ending the speech, she said the hikoi wasn’t just for iwi Māori but for all indigenous communities across the globe.
“The world is watching us te iwi Māori, whatever we do next. All indigenous people are relying on us.
“It’s not just about us te iwi Māori, it’s about us as indigenous people liberating ourselves to Hawaiki mau, so who’s coming with us?”

– Her people, her te Pati Maori organised the Hikoi, she gave its message – of course check this is not misinformation, but was the Hikoi a te Pati Maori membership drive, as has been claimed, or not?

• Act leader David Seymour believes he wasn’t allowed to speak as it would have “deflated” the protest organiser’s kaupapa.
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi led an impassioned chant to “kill the bill”. As the crowd chanted, Seymour walked back into the Beehive with his MPs, later saying he had been advised not to face protesters for fear of inciting “bad behaviour”.
I saw him on the news this morning saying Rawiri Waititi told him not to come. Damn right, I told you not to come.”

• Why did Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi not want David Seymour to utter a word?
Was Seymour not the reason for them being there, or was there another agenda hiding in plain sight, as they say.
Same agenda as when both the Maori King and Seymour were both within simple debating distance at Waitangi back in February, but didn’t meet.

_______________

When is state public interest service broadcaster going to screen current affairs debate between Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi and ACT’s Leader David Seynour on the Treaty Principles Bill with vetran broadcaster Brian Edwards as Interviewer?

Ooh …
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December 3, 2024 8:51am
BarryB

Now this is something you haven’t seen anywhere in the main stream media…………
https://consult.environment.govt.nz/climate/second-nationally-determined-contribution/

CLOSES DEC 8

In the late 1950s/early 1960s it was noticed that trees in Scandinavia were not as healthy as they should be. On further checking it became obvious that the effect was happening all around the northern hemisphere. It was eventually established that it was something called acid rain that was the cause. And where did the acid rain come from – coal. In the case of Scandinavia – coal burned in England, specifically high sulphur coal and oil. It had all probably started during World War 2 when enormous quantities of coal were used in the UK to provide the energy needed during war time – and the predominant westerly winds blew the sulpher dioxide (which makes a week acid when combined with water in the atmosphere) across the north sea to Scandinavia. The same was happening in N.America and Russia.
Now no one even considered the option of banning the use of coal. Coal had provided the energy that provided the standard of living that the world had. Banning coal and oil would have sent humanity back to the stone age.
Instead research into the problem came up with an excellent solution – remove the sulphur from the exhaust gases of where coal and sulphur was burned.
You haven’t heard of Acid Rain since – have you?

In the mid 1970s a researcher found that Ozone levels in the upper atmosphere were slowly getting lower. Ozone – a form of Oxygen – is bad news (ie: deadly) at earths surface, but up in the high atmosphere it blocks much of the UV rays – which if allowed to reach earths surface would mean everyone gets aggressive skin cancer, goes blind and many other problems. The cause of the depleting Ozone was found to be the refrigerant gas used in refrigeration.
There was no mention of banning the gas instead an alternate was found which doesn’t harm the Ozone. Just as well no mention of banning the original gas – it would have destroyed New Zealands economy and thus our standard of living. NZs exports are fully dependant on refrigeration.
(there is an interesting parallel story here. The old damaging gas was a DuPont product and was patented, which was about to expire. If it did DuPont would lose market exclusivity – but fortunately they had already developed a better product – one that didn’t destroy Ozone. It was also under patent protection.
Now there were rumours – obviously scurrilous… – that the whole “the Ozone layer is being destroyed” campaign was orchestrated.
It would be unkind, unhelpful, almost a hate crime for anyone to claim that a big chemical corporation would stoop to such low ethical activity – and it would also be true.)
Whichever story is true – you haven’t heard about the Ozone hole much lately have you?

In 1999 a graph appeared in a research journal – it was quickly named the ‘Hockey Stick’. It was based on research into tree rings which supposedly showed that earths climate was out of control and temperatures were going through the roof. It was already known that temperatures were increasing but the Hockey Stick graph indicated that humanity had 12 years left………
Al Gore among others jumped onto the bandwagon.
There were many questions about the data used to establish the graph – and these have not been released as of late 2024. Mann responded to doubts about his graph by threatening law suits. These still haven’t been decided in any court………
But the media and politicians ran wild with the Hockey Stick and what happened…….

No thought of finding a solution – so they decided to “LETS BAN COAL, OIL AND GAS”

Demands were for coal and oil and anything related to fossil fuels be banned. No room for research to find a solution – just ban the lot. That’s the result of almost all actions by many governments around the world.
And where has that got us – worse than no where. Wind and solar – even if they were a possible solution they need replacing every 20-30 years. That needs coal to make the concrete and the steel. Even back during the Industrial Revolution they realized that windmills were not worth the trouble. Instead they went for water wheels and coal – the modern equivalents being Hydro and nuclear. Plant trees all over food production land to get carbon credits – yet the Paris accord states that mitigation was to be carried out in a manner that did not threaten food production. (part b of the agreement) – so beside trees everywhere there are now banks (Westpac and ANZ) putting carbon reduction aims tied to mortgage/loan rates – and it applies to farmers.
Even though there really hasnt been any reduction in world CO2 emissions – in fact they continue to increase – the apparent failure of all the promised solutions seems to have been ignored by the policy makers.
The latest COP29 jamboree in Azerbaijan – where New Zealand had 92 – Ninety two – delegates – was effectively a failure. The opening speech by the president of Azerbaijan pretty much set it out – ‘the oil and gas that we sit on is a gift from God and we shall keep producing and selling it as long as there are people who need it’ – or words to that effect. He was simply stating what pretty much most people in the world think.

The solution for climate change is actually pretty simple.
The ‘Fs’ have it – Finland and France. Finland has 5 nuclear reactors AND deep mines in geologically stable rock to put its nuclear waste (and troublesome chemicals).
France has 56 nuclear reactors (many built after the oil shock in the 1970s) with another 6 being built and plans are afoot for 8 more after that.
Both Finland and France have electricity prices at almost exactly the average price for electricity across Europe.
Australian towns (in S.Australia) are looking to following the Finish lead by using mines in deep rock – after all that’s where the nuclear material comes from before being processed into nuclear fuel.
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December 3, 2024 9:02am
- kowtow
  
  ‘The solution for climate change is actually pretty simple.’
  
  There is no “solution” , because there ‘s no climate problem as such.
  
  It is a natural, cyclical phenomenon that mankind has no control or effect on.
  
  Relax and enjoy the holocene.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:33am
- Chuck Bird
  
  I see you mentioned Al Gore. One of the climate change commissioners, Ms Leining provides consulting through Silver Lining Global Solutions and was trained as a Climate Leader under The Climate Reality Project launched by Al Gore.
  
  This organization is not independent. The new lot of commissioners will be alarmists picked by Luxon.
  
  Did you see Rod Carr interviewed by Jack Tame?
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:51am
- tavita
  
  I thought the ozone thing was a scam at the time. Ozone (O3) is a higher energy molecule than oxygen (O2). So it takes energy to convert O2 to O3. The most likely reaction is that oxygen is absorbing energy from the sun and creating ozone, not the other way about. That would explain why we get an ozone hole forming over the poles in winter – in winter the pole is pointing away from the sun so no UV rays.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:58am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Sounds good. Amazing that all the scientists who worked on this – and concluded that R12 destroys ozone – never cottoned on to this simple solution.
    
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    December 3, 2024 11:17am
- Handyman
  
  RE the Ozone hole…
  Within a few years the hole had reduced, success was claimed and the science was vindicated.
  Since then the hole has increased and has decreased. In other words, it has fluctuated. It is possible the first few satellite readings were just part of a random natural variation.
  
  The “science” has now changed. The Ozone hole will reduce for sure — sometime in a few decades, after the current crop of experts retire.
  
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  December 3, 2024 10:50am
rouppe

Jeez, Sweden must be regretting being so open and welcoming.

Migrant gangs getting under 15`s to do contract killings.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/30/sweden-gangs-child-contract-killings-foxtrot-young-offender/
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December 3, 2024 9:03am
- kowtow
  
  Diversity dividend .
  Why aren’t they feeling enriched.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:25am
- Yabster
  
  yep- add France and Germany into that woke mix- migrants causing all sorts of problems.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:49am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  But, you know, chances are that these kids are born in Sweden, so that makes them Swedes. If the people they are shooting are older and immigrants (likely), then it’s just another story of racist Swedes killing immigrants. Doncha know.
  
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  December 3, 2024 10:02am
RoboRob

I see Joe Biden has pardoned Hunter. That is exactly as I predicted and I don’t hold it against Joe.

What I do hold against him is the blatant lying by categorically saying he wouldn’t pardon him and even in the pardon claiming he kept that promise.

I also am stunned by the level of the pardon itself. Much, poor quality media, are referring to this as a pardon for his gun crimes. It is in fact a pardon for all crimes charged or not, since 2014! The DOJ has been sitting on a number of obvious crimes (such as operating as a lobbyist for a foreign power without a license, one of trumps henchmen did jail for this) for some time. They have also been blocking the IRS tax evasion investigation. All of this is now pardoned and off the books. We will never know if Hunter was taking foreign bribes through 23 shell companies and funnelling that money to various Biden family members.
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December 3, 2024 9:12am
- kowtow
  
  ‘blatant lying’
  
  Career politician , I’d expect nothing less .
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:26am
- NothingLeft
  
  Nothing prevents Trump admin from fully investigating all the Biden’s corruption, even if it is never charged. Worth doing for political and rule-of-law reasons and showing up egregious instances of corruption helps the ‘Maga’ anti-deep-state agenda.
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:36am
  - RoboRob
    
    True but the results are always questioned. Without a court case the findings are only accusations without the accused having the opportunity to defend themselves. Like many of the charges against Trump, they were serious but only one side of the story.
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:53am
- Tom Hunter
  
  I already put the following into DPF’s post on the Biden pardon, but since you’ve introduced the matter here 😅😅😅😅😅…. it’s worth a second posting of Glen Greenwald’s take on a “supercut” of MSM talking heads oozing with smug about the contrast between “President” I-will-not-pardon-my-son” Biden and Trump..
  
  9 straight minutes of the people who destroyed trust in media heralding Joe Biden as one of history’s greatest men of honor for saying he would not pardon Hunter Biden.
  
  Beyond the extreme ignorance needed to have believed Biden, look how these people operate as a mindless herd
  
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  December 3, 2024 9:43am
  - RoboRob
    
    Will check it out. p.s. Sorry DPF I didn’t see your post!
    
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    December 3, 2024 9:53am
  - Bridgenag
    
    That is a must watch IMO
    
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    December 3, 2024 12:07pm
- Scott
  
  Joe Biden pardoned his son, Hunter Biden, for all crimes committed from Jan 1st 2014 to Dec 1st 2024.
  Two things stand out for me. Joe said on multiple occasions that he would not pardon his son. His press secretary has said over and over again that Joe will not pardon his son. So Joe is a liar.
  
  Secondly, the date of the pardon begins Jan 1st 2014. What is the significance of the date? That’s the year when Hunter started working in Ukraine.
  
  Hunter was getting massive money from Burisma, the Ukrainian energy company while his father was vice president in charge of Ukrainian affairs. Hunter was the highest paid person at Burisma, even though he was just sitting on the board and had no energy experience or previous experience in Ukraine. But what he did have was direct access to the vice President of the United States.
  
  I believe the Bidens were involved in corruption on a massive scale. Someone should investigate Joe!
  
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  December 3, 2024 10:13am
  - peterwn
    
    It is a foregone conclusion that Donald Trump is going to do a lot of pardoning (and setting the power of the State on his enemies) when he is in the Oval Office so Joe Biden might as well make hay while the sun shines.
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:39am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      Oh! So now VIP’s are admitting that the US Department of Justice is politicised! Good to know:
      
      REPORTER: “He’s saying his own Justice Department is broken.”
      
      KJP: “He believes in the Justice Department.”
      
      REPORTER: “He just said it’s infected with politics!”
      
      KJP: ………..
      
      REPORTER: “How many selective prosecutions are there at the DOJ?”
      
      KJP: I can’t speak to that.
      
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      December 3, 2024 11:04am
  - NothingLeft
    
    This is only the first pardon – prompted by imminent sentencing of Hunter on his tax evasion and gun law-breaking. He didn’t want to have a ‘convicted felon’ epithet.
    
    But you can guarantee that his whole family and perhaps a lot of Admin functionaries and other Democrats in on covering up his corruption, lawfare and other nefarious activities will get blanket pardons in late January too as a final icing-on-the-cake fuck-you to the Rule of Law after a 50year career as a scummy lying and corrupt political piece-of-shit.
    
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    December 3, 2024 10:40am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Dont hold back now NL!
      Lol
      
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      December 3, 2024 11:27am
      - Bridgenag
        
        😂
        
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        December 3, 2024 12:09pm
Pope Punctilious II

The MSM continues to hammer so-called “gender pay gaps”. Mind the Gap co-founder Dellwyn Stuart says “We will need legislation absolutely”. I wonder, will the National Party wets agree with Ms. Stuart?

All reported uncritically by One News, which proclaims “NZ women now effectively working for free until end of year”.

Die MSM, die.
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December 3, 2024 10:37am
- peterwn
  
  What would legislation do? Create some sort of Fat Controller who would decree that particular pay packets be increased?
  Fat Controller – Boss of Pharmac (on $800k apparently) is not getting enough – pay her $1M.
  David Seymour – She is not worth $800k IMO when all their problems end up on my desk. I only get $300k or so – there should be pay parity between Ministers and Department Heads.
  
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  December 3, 2024 11:30am
- cmm
  
  As one of few net taxpayers, I’ve been working for free since September or so.
  So working only December for free sounds like a hell of a bargain!
  
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  December 3, 2024 11:31am
cmm

So cops are getting into trouble for using excessive force on “children”…

Yes, perhaps they were only 12 years or so old, but were hostile enough to make the policewoman feel threatened. That at least one of the following are true:
a) The children involved really are out of control ferals that really do pose a danger to the public.
b) The cop is unfit for the role.
c) The kids involved are well versed in hamming it up for victim points and know they can get away with anything.

Whatever, we have a huge problem with out of control “children” and there being no useful tools available to police and the justice system to control them.

It seems the only option is to leave them to run wild until they turn 18 and are nominally adults – at which time they are well trained for their adult criminal careers.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/police-handcuffing-of-children-in-napier-unjustified-and-pushing-one-headfirst-into-wall-was-excessive-ipca-finds/TUOC647LJ5AP5J3KB35Y6UDKQU/
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December 3, 2024 11:27am
Bridgenag

Trouble is Boys don’t really get a brain until 25/40
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December 3, 2024 12:11pm

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