General Debate 29 November 2024

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Ehlana

Seems like everyone has gone to the Black Friday sales already…
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November 29, 2024 8:29am
- Flossie
  
  I toyed with the idea of going but decided the hassles would probably outweigh the savings on the couple of items I am potentially interested in.
  
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  November 29, 2024 9:18am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Easy. Ducked over to Bunnings at 9.45, got 3 capsicum plants & came out – traffic slightly more than normal but not much. Home again by 10.10. 🙂
    
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    November 29, 2024 10:46am
Local Miller

The cures of moderation. It’s 8:45 and only 1 comment has made it through moderation.

Can’t we get rid of this now? From what I’ve seen it seems to be a total waste of time and resources, and largely ad hoc. I had a comment blocked out by the moderators (the first ever as I recall), and 3 comments later someone else said the same thing worded slightly differently, but their comment wasn’t moderated out.
If moderation isn’t consistent and timely it is useless. I understand the moderators are volunteers, but the process messes with the whole concept of an interactive comments section.
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November 29, 2024 8:50am
- MCōs
  
  A few years ago there were no moderators and some pretty awful comments started to come up.
  Hence the need for the owners to review what went out on their blog
  
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  November 29, 2024 8:58am
  - Local Miller
    
    The report process seemed to work pretty well back then. The moderation was introduced because of anticipated law changes that could get the blog owner sued because of other peoples comments. I’ve not followed the law, but as far as I know no blog owner in NZ has been prosecuted under this law. I don’t think the law even made it onto the books, but I may be wrong. The introduction of moderators seems to have been a knee jerk reaction that has run it’s course and should be killed.
    
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    November 29, 2024 9:03am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I thought the moderation started immediately following the Christchurch mosque attacks?
      
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      November 29, 2024 9:11am
      - Local Miller
        
        Yes, because of proposed law changes
        
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        November 29, 2024 9:18am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I don’t see that it is productive to complain about any of the blog policies. It is not a collectively owned or operated forum. It is a private blog, owned and operated by DPF. He will do whatever he wants.
        
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        November 29, 2024 9:31am
      - peterwn
        
        Another reason for moderation is the threat of defamation or problems if a contributor breaches court suppression orders. Defending a meritless defamation can still cost heaps. Having and carrying out robust moderation policies is a good defence against issues on the part of a site owner, especially where the offending party can be identified.
        
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        November 29, 2024 10:27am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The moderation is light handed..
  
  A couple of times I have browsed the archives of Kiwiblog. Some of the comments and trolling were awful.
  
  Way before my time… There was a commenter “ztev” who seemed to devote hours each day to ruin the blog. This seemed to have gone on for a couple of years. Why wasn’t he thrown out?
  
  Anyway, it is not my blog or your blog. 😀 Another guy makes the rules.
  
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  November 29, 2024 9:08am
  - Local Miller
    
    While it may be light handed, it’s still inconsistent which means you never know if some innocuous remark isn’t going to be moderated out. This also messes with one’s ability to understand some some threads. For example where a person’s nick name is replaced with [use correct names – mod], but the context of the thread doesn’t give enough detail to work out who was being referenced.
    I agree, there were a few really awful trolls, but they were normally reported and eventually put in time out. I tend to agree there was little drive to permanently timeout the worst of these, but they were dealt to in one way or another.
    
    This history however doesn’t change the fact that the moderation doesn’t add any value to the blog, it detracts and interferes in the flow of the debate.
    I come back to my point, if there needs to be moderation than it should be consistent and timely, but rather no moderation. At least not in “real time” as it’s being done here.
    
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    November 29, 2024 9:32am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      As I said, no point complaining. Not your blog 🙂
      
      The blog gets about 400 to 600 comments daily. In the last eight weeks, 273 comments have been deleted so less than one percent or about four comments deleted daily. Also the vast majority of the comments being deleted are not marginal calls. They way overstep.
      
      I don’t see the problem.
      
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      November 29, 2024 10:18am
  - pdm
    
    ztev – was that not rumoured to be `The Despicable’ Trevor Mallard?
    
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    November 29, 2024 10:20am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      How could Trevor Mallard have had time to post thousands, literally, of comments here?
      
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      November 29, 2024 10:27am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  A whole thread on the 7 AM post was ‘disappeared’ quite early – suspect a ‘captains call’ which was probably fair enough (off topic). Your point about consistency is potentially valid as it’s been noticeable that some commenters have been getting grief about snark towards others whilst other prolific commenters seem to have free rein.
  
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  November 29, 2024 9:12am
- Raphael
  
  If you send through your actual details (name and email address) to DPF you can be put on the bypass automoderation list
  
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  November 29, 2024 10:12am
  - Local Miller
    
    My name and e-mail address are in my profile.
    
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    November 29, 2024 10:38am
Tomtoddy

I flew home from Los Angeles the other morning. I was reminded of something I read a few months ago that gave some perspective to how utterly trivial and insignificant New Zealand’s GHG emissions problems are.

The story was that if all the atmosphere around the earth was a distance from Los Angeles to Auckland – 10,450 kms – then the comparative distance that would equate to our so-called biggest ‘pollution’ problem – cow and sheep burps and farts – would get you just 27 millimetres or a measly one inch. In other words, about the distance that happens in that small jolt you feel as the pushback tug engages in preparation for pushing the plane out onto the taxiway. When you think of it like that you have to wonder whether the whole taxing of farmers is the biggest rort ever perpetrated in this country.

Today farmers will be told they have to stick boluses down their animals throats, vaccinate them and spend money they don’t have rounding them up regularly to stop something so ridiculously infinitesimal it barely registers. Seemingly intelligent people are going demand expensive and dangerous remedies for an absurdity which beyond normal comprehension.

Is the maths right? Stuck up at 35,000 feet for 12 hours or so I had time to check it out. All methane is 0.00019% of the atmosphere. All ruminants around the planet contribute 14% of methane emissions. NZ has 1% of the world’s ruminants. 10,450,000 metres X 0.00019% X 14% X 1% is 27.79 millimetres. Yep, a nothing. For that paltry amount very senior people like Dr Rod Carr, head of the Climate Change Commission, says we need to slaughter animals, reduce our herds and flocks. Really??

Don’t try the drop of arsenic in the swimming pool being dangerous nonsense. Methane isn’t poison. You just breathed some in.

Mt Luxon, Mr Peters, Mr Seymour please show some commonsense, some well-grounded leadership. Kill this crazy methane emissions stuff.
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November 29, 2024 8:52am
- David Garrett
  
  Tom: when I was a candidate for ACT back in 2008 I got a half day briefing on climate change from an environmental scientist. She said if the worlds greenhouse gas emissions for one year was a two litre jug of Milk New Zealands share of that jug was half of one drop.
  
  I used that analogy at numerous candidate panels- with Green candidates present- and was never once challenged on it.
  
  Seems consistent with ur analogy.
  
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  November 29, 2024 9:38am
Benedict Yu

This is an interesting example of poor journalism.

It is about a New Zealand citizen in an Indonesian prison for drug trafficking.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360501079/pressure-government-get-nz-prisoner-antony-de-malmanche-home-bali

The article demands that Chris Luxon do something. It contrasts the situation with a recent announcement by the Australian government that it had secured the release of some Australians imprisoned in Indonesia.

So the message is Albo is a good guy and Chris Luxon is uncaring.

Here is what the article did not cover.

The Australians released from Indonesia will be transferred to Australian prisons. For how long is yet to be determined.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/bali-nine-s-fate-will-be-in-australia-s-hands-if-they-return-home-indonesia-20241128-p5kucz.html

This is possible because Australia has prisoner exchange agreements with many countries, including Indonesia. In contrast New Zealand has no prisoner exchange agreement with any country. I do not know why this is so. The journalist could have written an informative article that explored the reasons.
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November 29, 2024 8:57am
- Flossie
  
  In this day and age people must be aware of the severe penalties that other countries enforce when their laws are broken. Why should the NZ taxpayers have to go to the aid of such offenders.
  
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  November 29, 2024 9:15am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes. Occasionally, folk get thrown in prison for breaking so called “stupid” laws. Last week in Dubai an 18 year old British man was arrested in Dubai for having sex with a 17 year old girl. Of course that is not a crime in the UK, but bad luck. Should have checked the local law.
    
    The other risk is being imprisoned on corrupt charges eg “spying”. OK so don’t travel to Syria, Russia or Belarus.
    
    I suspect that there is only one reason that New Zealand does not have prisoner exchange agreements. It is because such an agreement with Australia would cost a fortune. The numbers of Australians in New Zealand prisons will be a small fraction of the numbers of New Zealand citizens in Australian prisons.
    
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    November 29, 2024 9:26am
    - David Garrett
      
      Bene: The different ages of consent around the world must be a considerable worry for young travellers.
      
      In Prince Andrews case he fucked a 17 year old, which in some states of the US would quite legal if more than a little sleazy given the age difference. In other states the sex would have been quite legal.
      
      When I was in Louisiana 45 years ago the age of consent was 14. In many southern states it was 15 or 16.
      
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      November 29, 2024 10:05am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I disagree. Wikipedia has a handy table with all the age of consent laws globally.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent?wprov=sfla1
        
        Also with Prince Andrew, he allegedly had sex with the 17 year old in New York state. That in itself was not a crime. The fact that she was being sex trafficked, more of an issue.
        
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        November 29, 2024 10:22am
      - David Garrett
        
        Bene: You have unwittingly just proved my point. Click on the USA button and you get ages of consent varying between states “with some laws in some states contradicting each other”.
        
        And I think you’ll find the age of consent in New York state – back then at least – was 18, so Ms Roberts was underage. She was 17 at the time.
        
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        November 29, 2024 10:27am
- MCōs
  
  “The article demands that Chris Luxon do something.”
  No it didn’t
  As for the Australians returning to a prison in Oz. It’s pretty obvious where they would rather serve their time and it would be the same for that Kiwi bloke
  
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  November 29, 2024 9:22am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    OK ill tighten my language.
    
    The article reported that “supporters of a Kiwi man trapped in a “hellish” Bali prison say the New Zealand government is leaving him to die…”
    
    You say…
    
    “It’s pretty obvious where they would rather serve their time and it would be the same for that Kiwi bloke..”
    
    Yes well that is obvious.
    
    As for the “Kiwi bloke”, he cannot do so because New Zealand does not have a prisoner exchange agreement with Indonesia.
    
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    November 29, 2024 9:38am
Cassandra

The Chairman of the Tuwharetoa trust Board demands that the government institute policies whch focus solely on Maori well-being. His aim is equal outcomes. In my lifetime – since WW2 – Maoris have had precisely the same opportunities as every other New Zealander. The Maoris I went to school with and later worked for and with had mixed results, as did the rest of us. Some worked hard – such as Brian Poananga and Wira Gardiner – and did well. Others not so well. We all had the same opportunities. It’s called life. Demanding special treatment is racism.
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November 29, 2024 9:34am
- peterwn
  
  Surely the Trust’s income can be used to benefit ordinary Maori, or is it reserved for the benefit of the elite and other favoured ones?
  
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  November 29, 2024 10:14am
- pdm
  
  I will chuck in the late Piri Sciascia ( a childhood friend), Sir Howard Morrison and David Seymour to that hard working lot.
  
  Would have included Winston Peters but he needed an an extra couple of categories – persistence and downright cunning to make the grade.
  
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  November 29, 2024 10:26am
Chuck Bird

This happens in NZ thanks to Ardern.

JUDY MARTIN HENDRIE: Born Alive, Left to Die: A Midwife’s Shocking Testimony

https://realitycheck.radio/replay/judy-martin-hendrie-born-alive-left-to-die-a-midwifes-shocking-testimony/
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November 29, 2024 9:44am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

NATO Chief meets with Trump at Mar a Lago.
NATO member Countries get shivers down the spine as Trump will enforce they pay their share. For too long the US has carried them. The US can not leave NATO, but they can withdraw funding down to a reasonable amount. Too many freeloaders at the expense of the US Taxpayer.
Common sense under Trump.

https://politicalactionalerts.com/trump-and-nato-chief-chart-new-course-for-alliance-accountability/?
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November 29, 2024 9:55am
cmm

“But BNZ chief economist Mike Jones said comparing the NZ and Australian economies at the moment is not all that pleasant if you are a Kiwi.”

When is it ever good?

“A good chunk of Australia’s comparative economic strength was sourced from more favourable external trade conditions with prices for Australia’s key goods exports such as iron ore, coal, and LNG, have held up better than NZ equivalents such as dairy, meat, and forestry, Jones said.”

Hmmm, a pity Cindy’s “orsum inchewisun” didn’t extend to thinking that hydrocarbons could help pay some of the bills.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/money/360502470/how-nz-and-australia-compare-interest-rates-and-inflation
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November 29, 2024 10:48am

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