General Debate 27 November 2024

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Yvette

Perhaps just read the bits in bold type –

Treaty Principles Bill: David Seymour’s acknowledgement of rangatiratanga raises ‘a whole lot of questions’

Summary –
David Seymour’s acknowledgment of Ngāi Tahu’s tino rangatiratanga over much of the South Island underlines contradictions in his Treaty Principles Bill, according to legal experts. Critics argue the Bill is inconsistent, recognising Ngāi Tahu’s settlement rights while rejecting broader iwi rights under Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Dr. Carwyn Jones highlights Seymour’s reliance on courts for interpretation, despite opposing their role in other Treaty matters. Experts contend the Bill undermines Treaty principles, freezing them in the past and ignoring their constitutional significance for all iwi and hapū
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/534907/treaty-principles-bill-david-seymour-s-acknowledgement-of-rangatiratanga-raises-a-whole-lot-of-questions

ACT Party leader David Seymour’s acknowledgement that Ngāi Tahu have rangatiratanga over most of the South Island shows the inconsistency of his argument, says a legal expert.
Another says the “apparent concession” shows how “unworkable” his Treaty Principles Bill is.

The fact that David Seymour’s bill doesn’t satisfactorily address this situation, does emphasise that the same “controversy” of Ngāi Tahu having rangatiratanga over most of the South Island, whatever that implies, exists under the Treaty of Waitangi anyway.

Can Mr Luxon come off the fence that he is trying to sit on, and explain this situation to us.

Also can Winston engage with this situation, since his stance of “the Treaty has no Principles so we aren’t involved with a bill that in its name implies that there are, does not help here, as the situation does arise from the Treaty itself saying – as the late Maori King stated “There’s no principles, the Treaty is written. That’s it” – so Article 2 guarantees Māori rangatiratanga, which is the right of chieftains to exercise authority over their lands, villages, and other properties, is “actually written”, and the Ngai Tahu rohe is pretty much the whole of Te Waipounamu – Cook Strait to the Bluff, and Rakiura beyond.

So it is not a only a problem with Seymour’s bill, which at present will go away when Luxon and Winston help vote it away, but a problem also of the Treaty which remains – it will not go away – because “it is written”

Obviously Treaty Article 3 – all are same as the “people of England” – does not allow the exercise of tino rangatiratanga in Article 2, since that is an unworkable situation, that the “people of England” did not, and still do not have – and that is as it is written

But of course what has happened is that the rohe, the tribally controlled area, has by Ngai Tahu’s own acceptance (until now maybe, but it is too late) that the Pakeha settlers and their generations are interspersed among the rohe all over the place, so the rohe can not now be defined, a circumstance unforeseen.

So Ngai Tahu is in control of what? The Treaty, as it is “just written” has become obsolete, itself unworkable, overtaken by obviously unforeseen circumstances, which now questions the Treaty’s all-knowning wisdom and sacred tapu status.

An alternative may lie in the 7am post on Kiwiblog –
Berlin police chief says Jews and gays should hide
Entire neighbourhoods that are ~~pro-terrorist~~ ! pro-tino rangatiratanga

Doesn’t happen – so, is the Treaty keeping up?
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November 27, 2024 8:02am
- rouppe
  
  My view is that tino rangatiratanga doesn’t mean Ngai Tahu, for example, get to make decisions that affect everyone else.
  
  It means that if they want to build a shed on their property, they can, just like I can on my property, with both of us subject to local planning rules.
  
  A loss of tino rangatiratanga would mean they can’t do what I can do, or worse, I can negatively affect them by dint of my race.
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:15am
  - Burtland
    
    do you have tino rangatiratanga over what you have legally sold ?
    – seems a stretch, but hey, the treaty has become just one big stretch
    
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    November 27, 2024 9:54am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    That’s right. The Waitangi Tribunal’s official translation of the Maori text says that ‘rangatiratanga’ is best understood as the English concept of ‘trusteeship’, which is essentially looking after property on behalf of others. It does not include law making or other political or constitutional powers.
    
    https://www.waitangitribunal.govt.nz/en/about/the-treaty/maori-and-english-versions
    
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    November 27, 2024 10:04am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

‘Lawyer up guys’: MAGA lawyer threatens Trump’s prosecutors — with a specific statute.
Trump did say he was going to do this. Let the fun begin. Prosecutors, Lawyers, Judges etc are all in the crosshairs. They all thought Trump was going to lose especially with the Democrat cheating.

“That’s when government officials conspire amongst themselves, and including private citizens like Andrew Weissman and Norm Eisen and others – when they conspire to violate the constitutional rights of Americans – you’re violating 18 USC §241,” Davis said. “When you politicize and weaponize intel agencies and law enforcement to go after your political enemies for non-crimes, that is the very definition of a violation of 18 USC §241.”

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/lawyer-up-guys-maga-lawyer-threatens-trump-s-prosecutors-with-a-specific-statute/ar-AA1uKEw4?
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November 27, 2024 8:12am
- All_on_Red
  
  It’s nice froth for clickbait but I’m not sure Trump will
  Hard to prove a Conspiracy unless you have documentation showing they deliberately worked together
  The Democrat way is more like ‘having a common purpose with a mutual interest ’ and each doing their part separately but in step
  That’s easy to do if 90% of the Govt votes Democrat
  Trump will likely stamp down on preventing non citizens from voting and get the DOJ to chase those elected officials who are flouting the law but I wonder in the sake of unity he forgoes revenge on the other nonsense
  We’ll see
  His popularity is now up to 54% so taking revenge might leave a sour note
  Heck, he’s destroyed Obamas legacy…
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:06am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Good point about proving conspiracy without documentation.
    The Dems will have conspired verbally, in person.
    Labour does the same and tells new MPs to avoid putting anything in writing until it is approved.
    Probably the other parties are the same.
    
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    November 27, 2024 9:24am
- peterwn
  
  The US Supreme Court would have to be completely warped to uphold the use of this enactment to persecute Trump’s enemies. There is also the matter of judicial immunity (no judge is going to accept appointment if they risk being thrown into jail because their decisions are not flavour of the day). But then anything is possible. So USA may become a one party dictatorship with a succession of presidents appointed by their immediate predecessors starting with Trump.
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:12am
Matt Long

Genocide, ˈdʒen.ə.saɪd. Noun, whatever Israel does. “Israel is committing genocide in…”
Genocide denier, anyone who attempts to define genocide according to historical or etymological norms.
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/the-u-ns-anti-israel-genocide-purge-c8feef1a
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November 27, 2024 8:12am
Maggy Wassilieff

Did the NZ taxpayer pay for the organisation of last week’s Hikoi?

While evasive regarding answers surrounding the use of parliamentary resources in relation to the hīkoi to Parliament, organised by a Te Pāti Māori staffer, Eru Kapa-Kingi, Ngarewa-Packer admitted: “He’s partly paid by parliamentary services.”

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2024/11/26/centrist-debbie-ngarewa-packer-admits-maori-have-different-rights/
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November 27, 2024 8:13am
- Cassandra
  
  Yes, taxpayers funded the whole thing.
  
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  November 27, 2024 8:15am
  - john1234
    
    And taxpayer owned TVNZ did the car koi’s PR promotion work for free!
    
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    November 27, 2024 8:22am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Even the Wellington civil servants were paid while attending.
    Corruption.
    
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    November 27, 2024 8:26am
  - kowtow
    
    No doubt we also funded the advertsing for it ,for that is what te media paahti’s role was .
    
    If not directly to the media through state broadcasters but also “private” ones as we spend a huge amount invarious govt stupid ad “campaigns’ into the media world too.
    
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    November 27, 2024 8:55am
    - imalwaysright
      
      And don’t forget the schools who used the children as political fodder.
      
      No principals sacked yet.
      Waiting …
      Waiting….
      
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      November 27, 2024 9:27am
- Yvette
  
  The Wolf is out of the bag
  – the Wolf of Wall Street …
  “We have different expectations and different rights, absolutely.”
  She argued these rights are essential to protect all New Zealanders from “corporate exploitation” and the “Atlas agenda coming at us”.
  Ngawera-Packer offered as proof of an “Atlas conspiracy” the suggestion that the libertarian-leaning Atlas Network is chaired by Debbi Gibbs, whose mother, Dame Jenny Gibbs, is an ACT party donor.
  https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2024/11/26/centrist-debbie-ngarewa-packer-admits-maori-have-different-rights/
  
  Only days earlier –
  As part of the messaging, we should make clear the ties that Seymour and his backers have to corporate interests, both domestic and international and their plans to appropriate and exploit natural and public resources for private enrichment. The message should be simple: The Treaty protects all New Zealanders from corporate exploitation. This bill is about the people (tangata whenua and tangata tiriti) vs corporate profits.
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/11/general_debate_22_november_2024.html#comment-3647752.
  
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  November 27, 2024 8:34am
  - peterwn
    
    And even Curia polls is alleged to be part of the Atlas network!
    
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    November 27, 2024 9:02am
- AitchW
  
  Every week it appears that the Maori party is caught out spending money from the taxpayer to promote itself or to subsidise its members lifestyles.
  And every week the media pretty much ignore it and there appear to be no consequences for its blatant grift.
  What does it have to do to be pulled up and made accountable?
  
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  November 27, 2024 8:46am
  - RoboRob
    
    I think the Maori party would need to have a non Maori member. Then TVNZ / RNZ etc could do negative stories around that person. As we all know, by lived experience, the media wont run negative stories around Maori.
    
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    November 27, 2024 9:00am
Cassandra

TOP NATO OFFICIAL: BUSINESS LEADERS MUST GET ON A WAR FOOTING — Dutch Admiral Rob Bauer, the chair of NATO’s military committee, urged the private sector in NATO countries to prepare for a wartime scenario, including by adjusting supply chains to lessen dependence on adversaries. “If we can make sure that all crucial services and goods can be delivered no matter what, then that is a key part of our deterrence,” Bauer said today. This is a crucial matter – NZ has no supply capability, everything that’s essential for a functioning state (energy, medicine, many food items, vehicles, spare parts) is imported and funded by exports. When the supply chain closes – and it will unless we take action – we’ll cease to function. People like Don Brash and Helen Clark, who argue for disarmament, are living in lala land.
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November 27, 2024 8:14am
- Simon
  
  There will be no supply chain breakdown. Your chain is being pulled. China isn’t a threat to NZ.
  
  Missiles and drones to defend NZ. We don’t need NATO. Independent NZ, free from GAE, guaranteed by new military reality. Pure defence affordable and possible.
  
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  November 27, 2024 8:28am
  - imalwaysright
    
    NZ can’t be defended.
    Anyone could park a submarine in any of our harbours and it would be total instant surrender.
    
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    November 27, 2024 9:09am
    - rouppe
      
      If it’s a nuclear submarine then Russell Norman could paddle out to it in his kayak and deal to it… //
      
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      November 27, 2024 9:19am
    - nathie
      
      Not quite, Navy and Air Force have anti-submarine capabilities. And we work with our allies to help track them.
      
      Which as a small nation is to our advantage as the (greater) costs are largely carried by them. We need to do more to contribute.
      
      But guess who tried to “kill” those anti-submarine capabilities off when she was last in power? – Yep good ol’ Red Helen!
      
      And guess who continues to rally against working with our allies? Yep good ol’ Red Helen! And her band of merry collaborators and useful idiots!
      
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      November 27, 2024 9:27am
      - nathie
        
        To clarify, Clark’s Labour Govt refused to upgrade the P-3 Orion aircraft’s 1960’s-era anti-submarine warfare systems when in power in the 2000’s.
        
        Here’s an article discussing this back in 2001. So who to believe – Clark or the actual people that are the subject matter experts?!
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/sub-hunters-say-pm-out-of-her-depth-over-claims/7KAYWMQLKWSYHSKZMZXK4B2Y4M/
        
        Note that the threat then were from Soviet submarines from their limited Pacific fleet, nowadays the threat is from an ever expanding CCP Navy that far, far exceeds the former USSR’s efforts).
        
        (National finally upgraded them when they replaced Clark’s govt in the 2010’s).
        
        Thankfully (to their credit) the recent Labour Govt carried on with National’s plans to replace the 1960’s vintage P-3 Orion aircraft with the new P-8 Poseidon aircraft, but that was due to NZ First holding the Deputy PM and Defence Minister roles and forcing the issue. Presumably Clark wasn’t impressed!
        
        Clark, of course, wouldn’t fund the replacement of the 1970 bought Leander-class anti-submarine Frigate, HMNZS Canterbury in 2000, instead bought patrol boats for EEZ patrols (with zero anti-submarine systems nor self-defence systems) which cannot be put into harms way to defend NZ or NZ’s interests in the South Pacific!
        
        The Coalition Govt needs to get cracking and sort these capability shortfalls out (and it takes time to bring new capabilities into service, so get on with it)!
        
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        November 27, 2024 9:52am
    - David Garrett
      
      imalways: No need for said submarine to be “parked in a harbour mate”, one such vessel offshore armed with MIRV’s would do it. One MIRV missile could take out every city in NZ with a population of 80,000 or more.
      
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      November 27, 2024 9:30am
  - Dead Earnest
    
    Worked for Belgium did it Simon???
    
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    November 27, 2024 9:17am
  - Cassandra
    
    If there’s military action around Taiwan, for example, or South Korea then the supply chain will be disrupted. So Singapore has a large Navy and Air Force plus a 4 Division Army for no reason? Japan is rearming just for fun? The Aussies are spending umpteen zillions because they have nothing better to do? Get real. If we don’t play a part in keeping the sea lanes open then we will be isolated with nothing going out or coming in. It’s not a matter of “defending New Sealand”.
    
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    November 27, 2024 9:41am
- kowtow
  
  I’d be a marginally impressed with all this NATO sabre rattling if their govts weren’t going Lala over climate spend and deindustrialising the west .
  
  latest news from Germany in decline is Thyssenkrup layoffs.
  
  You can’t make gun barrels out of soy lattes.
  
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  November 27, 2024 8:58am
- Grunter
  
  Lala Land thinking that we can magic up all our own stuff somehow……”unless we take action….”
  
  And the obvious question Cassandra – What action are you suggesting we take? Specifics….?
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:39am
  - Cassandra
    
    Replace the frigates. Plus a bit around the edges but the important thing is to play our part. Three frigates would do it.
    
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    November 27, 2024 10:25am
Yvette

Dr Bryce Edwards – Democracy Briefing: Foundations of a constitutional crisis?

Summary
David Seymour’s Treaty Principles Bill has sparked debates about sovereignty, governance, and judicial activism in New Zealand. The bill asserts Parliament’s supremacy, while Te Pāti Māori argues Māori never ceded sovereignty. Beyond this, tensions between Parliament and the courts have emerged, with concerns over judicial overreach. Critics like Roger Partridge and Liam Hehir highlight cases like Taylor v NZ Poultry Board and the Peter Ellis case as examples of courts asserting quasi-constitutional roles, often invoking the Treaty of Waitangi ambiguously. Former PM Geoffrey Palmer advocates for checks and balances, warning unchecked judicial activism could erode democratic principles and create governance paralysis.
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/dr-bryce-edwards-democracy-briefing-foundations-of-a-constitutional-crisis

Consider the Ellis case –

• Peter Ellis appeal derailed by legal curveball on possible tikanga Māori approach
The case was adjourned for five weeks to allow both sides to bring submissions addressing the issue of tikanga, and will continue in the new year. [it in fact took longer, and several assembled experts later]
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117435500/peter-ellis-appeal-derailed-by-legal-curveball-on-possible-tikanga-mori-approach.

So it was not a matter of arguing common decency of protecting an ongoing reputation although the victim of legal misconduct had died his legacy should be corrected, as akin to tikanga for example? No, the matter of tikanga had been waiting attention –

Justices Joe Williams and Susan Glazebrook threw a curveball into the arguments from both sides when they suggested that New Zealand didn’t need to follow decisions set in any other country, and could establish an entirely new rule based on tikanga Māori.

“There’s nothing to say that the appellant’s case dies when they do … This is a very western idea that on demise you have nothing to protect,” Williams said.

Has the Supreme Court of New Zealand perhaps with the Peter Ellis case introduced a tikanga agenda, purportedly relating to the respect of Peter Ellis’ reputation, but in fact utterly disrespecting the case overall, to progress its own case / agenda?

So David Seymour’s Treaty Principles Bill did not appeal to the Hikoi o Muto and the Supreme Court may not be thrilled with it either

The flak [fliegerabwehrkanonen] is always heaviest over the target. If it’s coming at you from all sides, chances are you’re closer to success than you may think. Keep going, you’re almost there.

And, can Luxon not see past the sand-bags?

Caleb Anderson: The Emergence of a State Religion and the Deification of the Treaty –

I believe that we should be very concerned about the creep of pantheistic religion into public life. Increasingly, references to things spiritual have been used to silence debate, or to fill the gaps when logic, reason, and facts are lacking. Not infrequent assertions that the Treaty is a spiritual taonga, vested with mystical power, in and of itself, is a clear effort to make the arguments of its most animated adherents uncontestable. When you move into the realm of the mystical, reason no longer applies, and familiar democratic safeguards can be progressively dismantled.
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/caleb-anderson-the-emergence-of-a-state-religion-and-the-deification-of-the-treaty

Fliegerabwehrkanonen, Flak!
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November 27, 2024 8:19am
cas

Some interesting comments in the latest Listener by Danyl McLauchlan about how Chris Luxon is struggling with the Treaty principles Bill.

He makes the observation that “TPM instead öf being a parliamentary party is an activist movement operating out of Parliament. Its goal is to challenge the sovereignty of that institution and deliver self governance for Maori, not to indulge the ritual and procedures of the house”.

He doesn’t think Luxon is dealing well with the problems but does say “But there’s a contingent of Luxon’s party who quietly worry that Seymour might be right. The courts and many public sector agencies have adopted positions on the treaty that are closer to Te Pati Maori’s than Nationals, The next left-wing government will almost certainly have Te Pati Maori ministers in cabinet, leading to a rapid and radical shift towards political separatism. Isn’t it better to prevent that now, instead of trying to wind the clock back after the fact?
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November 27, 2024 8:20am
- nathie
  
  Well if leftie Danyl McLauchlan is outing TPM for being radicals (which we here know of course) with a non-democratic agenda, then hopefully it leads to this fact being more openly discussed (particularly amongst the centre-left and msm) and both National AND Labour does more to call them out.
  
  Sometimes National does (more please, of course), but the pressure needs to be applied Labour to acknowledge the “threat” and change course.
  
  Presumably leftie Danyl McLaughlin can see that threat and is speaking out. A bit like how Chris Trotter does the same (but is shouted down by his own side).
  
  Perhaps TPM being the radical divisive fools themselves may finally start getting called out instead of being given a free pass (by the likes of the MSM), but more importantly moderate Maori people speak out against them.
  
  And some of them are already saying so, by stating that TPM do not represent all Maori. (And perhaps woke leftie Pakeha can then take note – stop enabling racial division by appeasing these radicals and their agendas). May more of these authentic voices be heard!
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:16am
Mark Hanley

Is it just me or is Jenna Lynch getting angrier and not even attempting to hide her anger at the successful coalition governing NZ?

Unfortunately for Jenna she fits the mold of most NZ political journalists. Jenna’s inane questions and accusations are easily battered away by Luxon and Seymour.

Seymours position allows him to be more direct, and he pointed out Jenna’s wish to make the news rather than report the news, rather well.
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November 27, 2024 8:20am
- Paulus
  
  You must feel sorry for Jenna but Tova is away at the moment so time to showus her true faces.
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:36am
Matt Long

Congratulations to the Mighty All Blacks on their new sponsorship deals with Bud Light, Jaguar and Parliamentary Services.
Aoteoroa stands behind you.
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November 27, 2024 8:20am
- Paulus
  
  Pity New Zealand once again loses out !
  
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  November 27, 2024 8:31am
- Burtland
  
  is Razor better than Raygun?
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:04am
- Burtland
  
  NZRFU is fully infected with the “DEI mind virus” – goneburger
  
  the last edifice of the patriarchy slides into the swamp
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:47am
Bridgenag

who is the media now?
buggywhip manufacturer berates henry ford

“they’re just awful. all they do is lie. the ones the government pays for are on record calling the truth a distraction from getting things done.
one cannot help but be struck by how contrived, captured, and corrupt media has become. and an awful lot of people have seen it and walked away. the ratings drops have been savage, relentless, and seemingly unstaunchable.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/boriquagato/p/who-is-the-media-now?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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November 27, 2024 8:21am
Simon

If NZ had a functioning media we would already know what happened with that Navy boat Manawanui. In the end it’s NZ’s boat not the navy. But MSM are part of the state.
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November 27, 2024 8:21am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  RNZN to issue the interim report this week.
  
  That is FAST. When a civilian ship is investigated it takes months if not years for the MSA and/or TAIC to report.
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:16am
  - Paulus
    
    Bet we see nly the redacted report of this sinking – and why ?
    
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    November 27, 2024 9:37am
- imalwaysright
  
  The media sold their independence when they signed up to the Adern diktat over coverage of the proposed trial of the Christchurch murderer.
  They agreed to publish only what the Adern regime told them to.
  They have been willing eunuchs ever since.
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:35am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Elon Waiting For Black Friday Half-Off Sale So He Can Buy MSNBC For Just $30.
Bummer, what is Rachael Maddow going to do?

https://babylonbee.com/news/elon-waiting-for-black-friday-half-off-sale-so-he-can-buy-msnbc-for-just-30?
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November 27, 2024 8:46am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I would be surprised. Wouldn’t it be better to just let MSNBC to go out of business?
  
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  November 27, 2024 8:49am
  - Cassandra
    
    He’d take some pleasure in 1. getting rid of most of the staff, and 2. turning it back into a profitable business. Although I suspect he’s quite busy in DC at present.
    
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    November 27, 2024 8:53am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yeah, in DC he’s going to do what’s needs doing in NZ.
      You’re fired, FIRED!!
      
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      November 27, 2024 8:58am
      - Fender
        
        while I totally agree with eliminating the overstuffed bureaucracy especially the MOE, I am also, for last few months looking for work after 23 years in one place and it is not good, word is that the downsizing of wellington has suddenly given agencies a huge boost in their choice of applicants where they were starved of good choices previously. An IT job I applied for last week had 206 applicants in a week and that’s not in a big city. I am not entitled to dole as my wife works and mentally it’s tough, I’m not sure we should be celebrating so many being out of work. Who knows what they did before the ministries ramped up apart from teachers moving to MOE. Where did they all come from because there doesn’t seem to be the option of them just going back.
        
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        November 27, 2024 9:30am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    $30 is a good price to make a News Channel.//
    
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    November 27, 2024 8:56am
    - Burtland
      
      thats $30 more than Stuff
      
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      November 27, 2024 9:07am
      - Blog-aholic
        
        $29.00 more.
        
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        November 27, 2024 9:32am
      - Flossie
        
        $29 more isn’t it?
        
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        November 27, 2024 9:39am
      - Paulus
        
        NAH !~
        $29 more
        
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        November 27, 2024 9:39am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Yes, I don’t see any point in buying it
    More people get news from X than they do from MSNBC
    He’ll generate better Ad revenue from that rather than a small Cable network
    Besides Maddow just signed a five year contract for $25m
    
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    November 27, 2024 8:58am
    - Inandout
      
      AoR, yes she may have signed a contract but the devil is in the detail as to where the escape clause for MSNBC is situated.
      
      3 0
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      November 27, 2024 9:13am
    - Blog-aholic
      
      Better to let it goes bust and by the assets….MadCow is no asset.
      
      2 1
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      November 27, 2024 9:33am
Benedict Yu

So New Zealand’s biggest solar energy provider has gone bust.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360500886/nzs-biggest-solar-power-provider-solarzero-liquidation

Despite receiving $80 million from the 100 percent government owned Green Investment Finance.

https://www.nzgif.co.nz/about-us/who-we-are

Why is this company still giving out money and receiving capital from the government?

I keep saying it. Yes this government has killed some of the last government’s most spectacular idiotic policies, like the RMA replacements, the mega polytechnic and a dozen others. However there are hundreds of poor policies that are still intact. The current government’s climate change policies, for example, are not materially different from those of the last government.
27 0
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November 27, 2024 8:48am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  That money came from the previous government.
  
  Who set up this green investment finance? i seem to have heard this for sometime
  
  6 2
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  November 27, 2024 8:50am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    As usual, you do not address my comment.
    
    Green Investment Finance Limited is still operating. Simon Watts and Nicola Willis are the two shareholders. In other words, the current government. The company is happily carrying on, taking on commercial risks while being 100 percent owned by the government.
    
    Can you explain why?
    
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    November 27, 2024 9:06am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Don’t as usual me.
      
      The fact is this company was started under the previous poisonous regime
      
      2 7
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      November 27, 2024 9:13am
      - Grunter
        
        “Don’t as usual me….” 🤣🤣
        
        That’s funny..!
        
        0 1
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        November 27, 2024 9:44am
  - RoboRob
    
    BY’s point is that this agency still exists and is therefore still being funded by the tax payer. Still existing means that the current government still supports it.
    
    However I will give the current govt some slack as they have had a lot to shut down and reverse in the first year. That said if this and other virtue signalling slush funds are not cut this coming year I strongly challenge the govts cost cutting measures claim.
    
    Remember at this point the # of govt employees is only down to just under what it was when they came to power and the govt is borrowing MORE money then GR was. We need to see major departmental restructuring including the closing of a large number of departments (Womans, childrens, PI, Islanders, Maori1, Maori2, Maori3, Maori4 etc)
    
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    November 27, 2024 9:11am
    - imalwaysright
      
      “We need to see major departmental restructuring..”
      
      The past year has seen very little progress in this area.
      The government has to take drastic measures, we are in the equivalent of a post war economy. A war that we lost.
      Trying to talk the public service into reducing their cost and increasing their service is futile.
      We need enforced sackings. Legislate for it. Get it done.
      I would rather pay an ex public servant 20k on the dole than 100k to “work from home”.
      
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      November 27, 2024 9:56am
Scooter

The Bud Lite ad of cars? I hope so, the more these wokesters end up with egg on their face the sooner we can get back to saner times. Ditto with the All Blacks, you could say the Haka is an ad for them so pushing politics is just as likely to turn people off.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/22/jaguar-new-branding-cars-donald-trump
9 1
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November 27, 2024 8:53am
- Paulus
  
  Beer I like, but Budweiser – no comparison with Stenie.
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:41am
Swifty

“F**k you and f**k your clients,” Hone Puriri William Harawira said in a message to a lawyer.

“I’m giving you the chance you fkn [sic] maggot piece of s**t k**t to do the right thing … lawyers like you are a parasite on society aye Boy,” he said in another message.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/man-has-human-rights-case-thrown-out-after-threatening-lawyers-family/NCCVY4GOHVCN5CXSCEFFKHJY34/

If this is what Hone Snr and the Maori Party grifters deem as Maori standing up for themselves and leading the country into broad, sunlit uplands then leave me out.
25 0
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November 27, 2024 8:56am
- herb1
  
  Why hasn’t he been arrested as he seems to have made threats against several people. I’m sure a non Maori making similiar threats would very quickly be in dock
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:18am
- Swifty
  
  Yep, a real ‘Ngapuhi Warrior’ alright:
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/86798434/hone-harawiras-son-jailed-for-assault-on-girlfriend
  
  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfzPjKxzZuA
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:23am
  - David Garrett
    
    A 42 year old man with a “teenage girlfriend”…and that’s alright with Hone and the whanau?
    
    9 0
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    November 27, 2024 9:37am
- fernglas
  
  Even worse, he can’t spell “eh” properly
  
  5 0
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  November 27, 2024 9:26am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Why haven’t the HRC and the lawyers filed a police complaint…..they are specific threats to violence.
  
  1 0
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  November 27, 2024 9:40am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Santa’s Elves Complain Of Declining Wages As Undocumented Elves Flood North Pole.

https://babylonbee.com/news/santas-elves-complain-of-declining-wages-as-undocumented-elves-flood-north-pole?
4 2
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November 27, 2024 9:00am
- peterwn
  
  Meanwhile in Christchurch Santa’s elves are forced to use phones to take pictures of kids on Santa’s knee because the chief elf is too tight to provide them with a decent SLR camera.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/santa-stoush-outrage-as-christchurch-locals-pay-25-for-santa-photos-taken-on-phone/SS3BM6AZ75AYFMHFKJAZ6UG5CM/
  
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  November 27, 2024 9:16am
  - rangitoto
    
    DSLR are obsolete these days. All the manufacturers have gone mirrorless.
    
    1 0
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    November 27, 2024 9:38am
kevn

Swifty… Actual words fail him. They are a porangi lot.
5 0
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November 27, 2024 9:02am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

MTG.
Marjorie Taylor-Greene Up for New Job – Report Claims She Has Spot on New Committee.
“This subcommittee isn’t just another government task force. It’s a MAGA dream team designed to expose inefficiency, corruption, and unnecessary red tape in Washington. Greene, never one to mince words, told Fox News Digital she’s thrilled to partner with Trump, Musk, and Ramaswamy.”

Popcorn!!

https://pjnewsletter.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-might/?
2 4
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November 27, 2024 9:13am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump’s Justice Revolution: The Deep Clean Begins at DOJ.
“After watching the weaponization of federal agencies like the DOJ to target political adversaries during the Biden-Harris administration, Trump is poised to drain the swamp for good. The first target on his list? The Department of Justice itself.”

Remember, Trump said he would do this. 2016 was tough, this time he knows the tricks and is ready.

https://pjnewsletter.com/trump-justice-deep-clean/?
5 4
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November 27, 2024 9:20am
Yvette

Parliament at a tikanga ‘crossroads’ – Te Pāti Māori
Speaker of the House Gerry Brownlee is facing a choice: Crack down on those performing haka without prior consent, or open the House doors to tikanga

Pros
Last week, NZ First minister Shane Jones said he was concerned that Parliament’s rules were “incapable of dealing” with an event like the Treaty principles haka. He called for tighter rules around conduct in the House, later suggesting the haka and other displays in the House were for the benefit of Te Pāti Māori’s social media audiences.
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon also said those rules – known as Standing Orders – needed to be clarified so debates in the House didn’t “degenerate into disruption”.
“No disrespect, what we saw on Thursday was unacceptable and we need to make sure that we can have debates on difficult subjects without people threatening other members inside of Parliament.
“It’s pretty basic and I appreciate whether it’s around haka or individuals walking up to other individuals in the Parliament and going off at them; that’s not acceptable behaviour.”

A Con
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi – who is a consistent challenger of the rules and norms of Parliament – was quick to back his MPs’ haka, saying “everyone should be proud to see [the haka] in its true context”.
“We love it when the All Blacks do it, but what about when the ‘blackies’ do it?” he said.
Waititi also talked about using all tools available to their MPs during debates in the House, including haka and waiata – things that were a natural part of debate on the marae.

Will it evolve to the apparent marae practice of signing, waiata, to drown out speakers?
2 1
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November 27, 2024 9:38am

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