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November 22, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 22 November 2024

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General Debate

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2ic

While the Ministry of Health still desperately cling onto the covid vaccine narrative, in seems at least in one area they’ve seen the writing on the wall and their resistance is crumbling:

Consultation on safety measures for the use of puberty blockers in young people with gender-related health needs
https://www.health.govt.nz/publications/consultation-on-safety-measures-for-the-use-of-puberty-blockers-in-young-people
“The Evidence Review found a lack of good quality evidence for the effectiveness or safety of puberty blocking treatment in young people with gender dysphoria. We do not have good evidence to say that the medicines used improve the longer-term outcomes for young people with gender-related health needs – nor that the potential longer-term risks are low. ”

So no good evidence of safety or efficacy (sound familiar?) on the use of puberty blockers, yet New Zealand doctors have been handing them out like lollies:

Puberty blocker use in New Zealand far higher than similar countries – study
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/puberty-blocker-use-in-new-zealand-far-higher-than-similar-countries-study/DNZGTK6CSFE5RK76ZOB47STJ2M/
“New Zealand is prescribing up to seven times more puberty blockers to young transgender patients than other similar countries, new analysis shows.”

So perhaps they’ve harmed enough New Zealand children to now have some ‘good quality evidence’ that maybe puberty blockers aren’t such a good idea?

So we are getting a ‘review’. Honestly, people need to be up on criminal charges for this sort of malfeasance.
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November 22, 2024 8:01am
- Chris2
  
  As a matter of interest, does Pharmac fund puberty blocker drugs, or does the parent/patient pay for them? And what sort of money are we talking about?
  
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  November 22, 2024 8:06am
- Matt Long
  
  If the mad liberals aren’t chemically and surgically castrating their kids for popular a claim, they’re drugging them to mimiic cancer for clickbait and money.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/australian-influencer-investigated-for-drugging-her-child-for-views-fundraising/OSOZ55FKCJDH7HBVQM3AVFAEP4/#google_vignette
  
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  November 22, 2024 8:07am
  - Matt Long
    
    Aclaim and mimic, damnit.
    
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    November 22, 2024 8:22am
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      Acclaim.
      
      I can often resist my natural urge to be pedantic, but you started it this time.
      
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      November 22, 2024 9:00am
      - Matt Long
        
        Thanks 🙏🙏
        
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        November 22, 2024 9:44am
  - riffer
    
    Piberty blockers don’t chemically castrate children.
    
    They don’t cause permanent physical changes. Instead, they pause puberty. That offers the person taking the blockers a chance to explore gender identity. It also gives youth and their families time to plan for the psychological, medical, developmental, social and legal issues that may lie ahead..
    
    When a person stops taking puberty blockers, puberty starts again.
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:56am
    - Conservatarian
      
      “Exploring gender identity” (not a real thing) is most commonly solved by the child going through puberty (an actual thing).
      
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      November 22, 2024 1:01pm
    - Handyman
      
      Riffer, your last sentence is not always true.
      
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      November 22, 2024 1:04pm
    - Jack5
      
      Riffer’s … there is sufficient evidence to show that pausing puberty gives the person time to come to grips with the issue.
      
      Or more time for influencing or persuading the person? Is it ever to reinforce born sexual identity?
      
      This issue is going to be Woke-ism’s Waterloo.
      
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      November 22, 2024 2:06pm
    - Keith White
      
      Err, no. Even the genital-amputating NHS has stopped publishing that BS.
      
      “Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria.
      
      “Although the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) advises this is a physically reversible treatment if stopped, it is not known what the psychological effects may be.
      
      “It’s also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children’s bones. Side effects may also include hot flushes, fatigue and mood alterations.”
      
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      November 22, 2024 4:27pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      That statement is nonsense in and of itself.
      Even if there are no other adverse side effects of these synthetic chemicals blocking puberty is in itself a permanent physical change.
      Will a blocked puberty restarted at age 25 produce nothing but the same effects as one not paused at age 13?
      Impossible. It is a synthetic chemical hormone, not a science fiction time machine.
      Transgenderism has many interesting effects and one of them is contagious delusions.
      
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      November 22, 2024 8:22pm
- Anthony Melchett
  
  First do no harm.
  
  How can any medical “professional” sleep at night after prescribing something that does so much damage to either a kid with a mental health issue or a normal kid with insane parents?
  
  Oh yea, they will be getting a very nice financial incentive from the drug companies…
  
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  November 22, 2024 8:10am
  - riffer
    
    Or, there is sufficient evidence to show that pausing puberty gives the person time to come to grips with the issue. There is also likely substantial evidence to show that forcing children with these issues to go through puberty raises the risk of suicide, which probably counts as harmful behaviour.
    
    It’s a really shitty situation no matter which way you look at it. I am sure nobody here is pushing for people with these issues to kill themselves.
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:59am
    - Jinky
      
      There is no evidence that this kind of treatment reduces depression and suicidal ideation in children or adults
      
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      November 22, 2024 1:07pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      Suicide baiting,
      “If you do this / don’t do this I’ll kill myself!”
      is in itself a pathological symptom of a neurotic psyche.
      Cure the underlying psychosis and all these problems is resolved.
      
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      November 22, 2024 8:29pm
  - Keith White
    
    They got a really good’n’profitable kick out of “let’s do harm and accumulate power and grants” under the Covid protective umbrella held by Ardern and Parliament – so why would they not keep going…
    
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    November 22, 2024 4:29pm
  - AitchW
    
    Do you have any evidence of drug companies offering financial incentives to medical professionals to prescribe their drugs?
    
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    November 22, 2024 5:48pm
- imalwaysright
  
  I wonder how many parents would agree to a prescription for chemical castration pills for their kid.
  
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  November 22, 2024 8:15am
  - Anthony Melchett
    
    Plenty. They use it as a tool to show how progressive they are and what good parenting they have done.
    
    The whole trans thing is literal insanity.
    
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    November 22, 2024 9:56am
    - sirknz
      
      I guess on the glass half full side of this, it means less Greens voters in the future…
      
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      November 22, 2024 10:24am
    - Skippytony
      
      The parents of these unfortunate children should be made to sign a cast iron waiver preventing them or their children from seeking compensation from the state in the future.
      
      In ten or twenty years when people look back on this as some form of collective hysteria the Government and we the taxpayers should not be on the hook for the consequences of these decisions.
      
      Its bad enough that it seems the parents are getting squeezed out of the decision making process in some cases.
      
      This just feels like another (expensive) ticking timebomb.
      
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      November 22, 2024 11:37am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Skip,
        They will probably bury the mistake and spend their days harvesting sympathy for themselves.
        All attention is good attention!
        
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        November 22, 2024 1:18pm
  - riffer
    
    It’s not castration. It’s a pause on puberty. Stop taking the pills and puberty starts again.
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:59am
- Burtland
  
  more people damaged by the state – another expensive inquiry and payouts to come?
  
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  November 22, 2024 8:43am
- Benedict Yu
  
  What “covid vaccine narrative”?
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:05am
  - mandk
    
    “safe and effective”
    
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    November 22, 2024 9:10am
  - Anthony Melchett
    
    If you take the vaccine you won’t catch covid and you won’t die or go to hospital.
    
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    November 22, 2024 9:57am
    - imalwaysright
      
      And your odds of winning lotto improve with each booster!!!…
      
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      November 22, 2024 11:45am
      - Keith White
        
        But the more boosters you take the worse you get at critical thinking and analysis, so there’s that for the needlephiles, protects them from having to deal with unpleasant ‘what-ifs’.
        
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        November 22, 2024 4:31pm
- Bridgenag
  
  LGB vs TQIAXYZ+
  extricating sexual identity from politics
  
  “i care about having ideology force fed to me like i’m a pate goose and being bludgeoned into having to pretend that this is OK, that this is normal, that mental illness manifest as performative gender complexity is fine (right up until it steals your luggage).”
  
  “my advice to literally everyone:
  wanna live a happy life?
  stop caring about identity. start caring about character.
  the rest is window dressing.”
  
  https://open.substack.com/pub/boriquagato/p/lgb-vs-tqiaxyz?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:10am
- PurplePen
  
  My 2 cents worth is physical mutilation by drugs and later on by surgeons is not the way to resolve gender dysphoria. We’re all born with certain characteristics and traits. As the song says ‘I am what I am, and what I am … needs no excuses’. Better the person be taught that they are what they are and to then be what they are. I’m a gay man. Would I want to have been straightened out. Looking back definitely not. I like and if you like, love the way I am. I be, and I accept; no enjoy that I be as I am. Or something like that.
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:31am
  - Conservatarian
    
    Well said PP.
    
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    November 22, 2024 1:04pm
  - Anthony Melchett
    
    I really think that as being gay has become more accepted and mainstream (not for a second to minimize any struggles and difficulties you may have been through) that people are looking for new ways to rebel and be different.
    
    The current method is to be trans and is one part confusion by the child and the rest from brainwashed parents pushing their ideology onto a defenseless kid.
    
    Do what you want once of an age to do so but history will not look back at this period fondly.
    
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    November 22, 2024 1:48pm
    - John Loveridge
      
      I’ve believed that for a long time. In the 50s there were the greasers, in the 60s the mods, in the 70s the punks, in the 80s the goths, in the 90s the emos… and so on up to the present time, when we have the transes.
      
      What comes next?
      
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      November 22, 2024 2:47pm
    - Countrygirl
      
      I don’t agree it’s the parents pushing trans stuff on to the kids. I think it comes from the schools and other kids. Parents are too terrified of harming their child, or the kid harming their self, to disagree with it all. I’ve seen it.
      
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      November 22, 2024 3:29pm
- thirteenstars
  
  Matt Doocey is the Minister for Youth and the Minister for Mental Health. He is fully a supporter of the trans agenda and speaking in support of the Conversion Practises Bill he said:
  
  I also stand here as someone who’s a proud father of two young children, a boy and a girl—and I do look forward to celebrating their sexual orientation, their gender identity that they will decide…
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20220208_20220208_16
  
  The Cass Report identified the Tavistock Clinic as one of the worst offenders of the malpractice of gender-reassignment practises. Matt Doocey used to work for Tavistock. The role of Minister of Health was created by this government and Doocey is its first minister. He should not be anywhere mental health or youth.
  
  This policy statement by Reti and Doocey is nothing more than window dressing. It changes little and the wholesale butchering of children will continue apace.
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:40am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    If Matt Doocey, with that CV, was a Labour Minister, people here would be all over him like a batch of boils.
    
    I think someone needs to turn the heat up on him a little, because he makes me nervous.
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:49am
  - imalwaysright
    
    “I do look forward to celebrating their sexual orientation, their gender identity that they will decide…”
    
    Extrapolate that and let them decide if they want him as a parent.
    
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    November 22, 2024 1:21pm
  - Keith White
    
    For those wishing to be properly informed, the Cass Report is a must-read. A horrible read, but a necessary one.
    
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    November 22, 2024 4:32pm
Yvette

Interpretors
Willie Jackson, in consulting selected Maori Elite through more than 70 hui on a response to He Puapua, had a report compiled for Cabinet approval but he, Willie Jackson, was concerned that about 20 percent of it needed rewriting. So I take it then that one man, Willie Jackson, was filtering feed-back from those selected Elite Maori – an insult to their intelligence and the nation’s as well – but since Willie, like so many of his Labour colleagues didn’t deliver, neither did he as the last Election loomed, and the report, revised or not, is hidden on a shelf somewhere. Waiting.

Likewise a more visible response, to calls for unity – “And here we have accumulated over nine days an affirmative call to action that landed and was realised at Parliament on Tuesday”. A hikoi – “for what?”

Now Helmut Modlik, about this great nebulous gathering, is able to claim: the energy created around the Māori rights movement should be harnessed. He said iwi leaders were actively working to set up their own institutions, such as “Te Whare o te Rangatiratanga”.

Many of those in the hikoi, in television clips, revealed diverse reasons for being there – some based on utter mis- or dis-information – but Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke, Helmut Modlik, John Tamihere and Rawiri Waititi now channel why the multitudes were there.

Just as Willie Jackson filtered Maori elite responses for what he knows (better) to be their aspirations in He Paupau, a few activists now can interpret the outcome of the Hikoi mō Te Tiriti.
In the hands of a few …
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November 22, 2024 8:01am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  NZ Descends into a S*!# Show on the World Stage. MPs Mock Judges. Legal “Royalty” Mock MPs. Other MPs Mock their own Parliament. We’re not a serious nation.
  
  https://www.downtoearth.kiwi/post/nz-descends-into-a-s-show-on-the-world-stage-mps-mock-judges-legal-royalty-mock-mps-other-mp
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:42am
- keepcalmcarryon
  
  Who owns the iwi report on He Puapua I wonder, who is sitting on it, Labour or the coalition? Surely the public payed for it and its subject to OIA?
  
  No surprises the Hikoi is being played hard politically let’s hope the murky question of its financing gets a definitive answer.
  Winners so far: TPM and ACT, losers: MSM, National especially Luxon.
  
  Although Luxon is too politically flaccid to do so, the Maori seats are creating a distortion of representation that over represents Maori, and the seats should be abolished as advised.
  They are also a driving force for an arms race of Maori extremism between Labour and TPM and work to tilt MMP left, detrimental to a fair democratic society.
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:34am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Keep,
    Good point on who owns these controversial documents. Clearly the public owns them, but, as we saw with the previous regime, that doesn’t mean we can read them.
    I would love to read the minutes of the Cabinet meetings leading up to and including the attack on NZ.
    Same with Ashley Bloomfields communications.
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:52am
- Jack5
  
  Helmut Modlik hasn’t ditched his name from the Austrian side of his family for a Maori moniker from his dear Mum’s family.
  
  Helmut’s obviously comfortable in his own skin.
  
  Perhaps he’ll learn German to build on his Maori and English. He’ll find parallels with English, a related West Germanic language.
  
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  November 22, 2024 11:21am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Helmut is to be applauded for not ditching “Helmut” for a new monicker in te reo.
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:51am
Yvette

Rather than need not ~~creed~~, next: greed not ~~need~~

Here is a grubby little retaliation against Seymours intention :
It is “corporate greed” –

Here is the idea :

A recent editorial cuts through the disingenuous equality framing of the bill by Seymour and his backers and the complex arguments about Māori sovereignty by the Opposition.
In short, it argues that the bill is about opening up New Zealand to corporate exploitation for profit. It’s as simple as that.
As noted by the editorial writer Rupert O’Brien, “The Treaty principles have proved a significant roadblock to both corporatisation and privatisation in the past and present a clear threat to any plans of future development of public assets to the private sector.

and the the idea mutates :

This effect is likely one of the key, although unstated, reasons for the push to return Te Tiriti to its erstwhile status as a simple nullity. I suggest this is the message we should be hammering home in Oppositional arguments to the bill.

from fantasy into fucking fact :

As part of the messaging, we should make clear the ties that Seymour and his backers have to corporate interests, both domestic and international and their plans to appropriate and exploit natural and public resources for private enrichment.
The message should be simple: The Treaty protects all New Zealanders from corporate exploitation.
This bill is about the people (tangata whenua and tangata tiriti) vs corporate profits.

right before your eyes, you can see this process unfold :
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/11/20/lets-not-play-into-seymours-hands-by-talk-of-racist-treaty-bill/

political opinion Ryan Ward – Dr Ryan Ward is a lecturer in psychology at the University of Otago

so ‘psychology’ – bugger, who would have guessed
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November 22, 2024 8:04am
- Taieri
  
  Dr Ryan Ward is a lecturer in psychology at the University of Otago
  ———-
  
  Is he not by any chance another American import blessing us with his august presence?
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:01am
  - Yvette
    
    Ryan D. Ward received his PhD from Utah State University specializing in experimental psychology. Following postdoctoral work in the Departments of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at Columbia University in New York City. He lives with his wife and five children in New Zealand. – Amazon books, and Otago University profile
    
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    November 22, 2024 12:32pm
kowtow

Fresh from promoting the divisive , anti democratic Maori party march te meedia paahti are now promoting organised crime , via their very vocal and emotional support for the thuggish and intimidatory public display of criminal symbolism .

My question is how can particularly the women of the media ( and there’s an awful lot of them) be so supportive of a symbol that was gained ( not earned) by a thug who very possibly committed a criminal act , very likely against a woman or a family .Especially when they are so hysterical in their support of all things “women”.

Where are all those hashtags now .
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November 22, 2024 8:18am
- nathie
  
  Kowtow well said.
  
  “#hypocrisy” would best suit them.
  
  Imagine the “trends” – out of this world!
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:47am
- sirknz
  
  *sniff* Huh? *sniff*
  
  Why would they complain about what is a potential source of free product, for their personal use obviously…
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:48am
- Paulus
  
  The Tourist Industry must be pleased with what was shown as a so called Hikoi – for that read Pantomime, as an encouragement for foreign tourists to come to New Zealand and see what farces have to offer.
  Incidentally what was the Hikoi for ?
  Few seem to understand anyway, particularly I see many younger ones, who made a placard and marched together wagging school, had no idea but teacher indoctrination – not very sucessful either as the teachers had no positive idea anyway, just have a go at the elected Government.
  
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  November 22, 2024 11:00am
Matt Long

Remember that time we changed all our refrigerants for more expensive ones to save the planet from The Ozone Crisis, and then the ozone hole remained the same because it’s always there in winter? They were good times.
Now we’re just waiting for the current refrigerants to go off patent so they can play the same game again.
https://goodoil.news/will-scientists-admit-they-havent-saved-the-ozone-layer/
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November 22, 2024 8:21am
- Benedict Yu
  
  You are spreading fake news. The Montreal Protocol was successful.
  
  https://council.science/current/blog/happy-birthday-montreal-protocol-ozone/
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:09am
  - Inandout
    
    BY, when you link please look at other articles from the same source. They are hopelessly Green.
    https://council.science/blog/10-new-insights-in-climate-science-2024/
    
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    November 22, 2024 9:19am
    - imalwaysright
      
      In,
      
      You’re supposed to read only the words in blue!
      
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      November 22, 2024 10:23am
  - Matt Long
    
    The fact that they changed the date for the Ozone hole closing from 2020 to 2050 should invite some critical thought BY. Sometimes you appear to be hopelessly credulous.
    I’m not vouching for the article I linked to as absolute truth either, we need to recognise the limitations of models in complex systems.
    All models contain errors, some models are useful.
    
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    November 22, 2024 10:01am
- Burtland
  
  This came from the autocracy of Mostafa Tolba and the UNEP from 1975-1992. He apparently saved the ozone layer and millions of lives from skin cancer.
  
  The United Nations Environmental Program created
  – acid rain in the 70s
  – ozone hole and CFCs in the 80s
  – DDT scare and the spread of malaria in the 80s
  – and Climate Change and the IPCC
  
  John McLean puts some context around the UN involvement in all this
  
  https://youtu.be/IoL2PldRWWU
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:33am
- JackRabbit
  
  Yep.
  
  Patents, and therefore a monopoly, come up to expiry date. Spread news of damage to the ozone layer, “invent” new refrigerants, patent them, outlaw the old ones. Income stream maintained.
  
  And when it is detected that the new refrigerants leak more than the old ones, debunk that myth.
  
  And when it is pointed out that all those refrigerants are heavier than air, something most ‘fridge’ techs new from the start, debunk that as well.
  
  On a ‘fridge’ tech training course from decades ago. “Please ensure you have adequate ventilation when work on XYZ systems. Refrigeration gases are heavier than air, so in the case of a leak, and you are working close to the ground, you may asphyxiate and die.”
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:24am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Agree JR.
    Same with the infamous CO2. RD 1.2 yet its up in the atmosphere…
    Try filling a balloon with CO2
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:57am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Yes.
      
      A balloon filled with CO2 will fall to the ground faster than one with air.
      
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      November 22, 2024 1:08pm
Sparrow

Good Morning Kiwi Bloggers, A chance of a lifetime to own a piece of historical art. Bidding starts at $1 that’s right !!! What is it ? Half an Arvo blue tacked on chipboard. Be quick
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November 22, 2024 8:24am
- Ghost
  
  Signed by jasinda Arderrn? That could increase the price a bit
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:32am
trout

There has been significant criticism of the position taken by Chris Luxon on the TOW Principles Bill. I believe he has made the right decision.
The whole imbroglio has to be seen in the context of MMP (coalition) Government. A coalition partnership between parties is synergistic; the sum of achievements by the parties each developing their preferred policy is greater than as if the parties coalesced and produced one (compromised) policy. The coalition parties can agree to disagree; unlike FPP where dissent was discouraged. We are seeing a maturity of the MMP system whereby separate parties in a coalition can now develop their own identity.
Luxon’s primary objective right now is to get ‘runs on the board’ in the lead up to the next election; only 2 years away. For him to get embroiled in a TOW debate is distracting and unproductive. Be assured the opposition (listen to Question Time) is desperate to trap him in the morass. They could then portray Luxon as anti Maori for the next two years (and frighten off Nat. liberals). Be aware that the Labour Party are in something of a bind; in their desire to regain the Maori vote they have supported the Hikoi and associated antics and willingly allied themselves with the Maori party. A possible coalition of Labour with a group of fanatical racists will not go down well with the voters.
The Act Party have taken on the TOW Principles Bill and will push on with it. The Nats need not worry; if they lose votes to ACT is does not matter; Act has nowhere to go but partner with National. It is the total vote for the Right that counts. For the Luxon naysayers be careful what you wish for.
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November 22, 2024 8:25am
- Yvette
  
  The Act Party have taken on the TOW Principles Bill and will push on with it. The Nats need not worry; if they lose votes to ACT is does not matter; Act has nowhere to go but partner with National. It is the total vote for the Right that counts. For the Luxon naysayers be careful what you wish for.
  
  Right – literally
  But apart from party tactics, is there no consideration for what is morally true or not?
  Ergo, Should all New Zealanders have equal responsibilities and rights?
  
  Even: Should New Zealand not be founded on something like a simple all-citizen-inclusive constitution, rather than a 19th century treaty between the then dominant ethnic majority and British Empire representatives?
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:58am
  - ChristopherW2
    
    As Mr Seymour himself said, some issues take time. If all we get for now is a debate, but its a fair and enlightening debate, that’s a win, for now.
    
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    November 22, 2024 10:57am
  - trout
    
    hi Yvette
    You are quite right; the TOW principals bill should pass and a referendum should take place. But the game here is ‘realpolitik’. Seymour is playing a long game (as with the euthanasia bill). The seed is planted and the public will understand and accept the proposition eventually. If the Nats were to join in at this time the horses would be definitely scared; remember that the first rule of politics is to know your numbers. The Nats do not have the vote support to go out on a limb. In NZ the centre rules.
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:08am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      The d tee rules, and that’s exactly why Nats have stared clear
      
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      November 22, 2024 11:42am
- keepcalmcarryon
  
  There is a time to be a bland centrist and a time to actually stand for something.
  If the coalition don’t enshrine some solid democratic principles , Labour greens and TPM instigate apartheid when they are in power again.
  
  The utter failure to see cause and effect of poor legal work by wet liberals like Palmer, Finlayson, Key, Ardern and now Luxon has brought us to a point where our country stands a chance of being racially divided.
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:45am
- Paulus
  
  At then next election I expect in current climate that NZF out as Winston not there, but leaving National on 30% and ACT on 20%.
  So live with ACT.
  
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  November 22, 2024 11:03am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Agreed, but Seymour scared half his support before the previous election, saying A: he could sit on the cross benches, and B: he could go with either major party. As you say, be careful what you wish for.
  
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  November 22, 2024 11:40am
Simon

Netanyahu war criminal. NZ would have to arrest him if possible. Luxon would probably get the mongrel mob to do it. Semi official govt entity but enough distance from the actual nominal govt Luxon leds.
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November 22, 2024 8:29am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  What utter bullshit
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:40pm
nathie

A must watch interview of ACT’s Nicole McKee by Leah Panapa (from Monday).

Nicole McKee had a front-seat view of the disgraceful TPM pantomime in the House last week and confirms that TPM’s Debbie Ngarewa-Packer did make a gun gesture pointing at ACT’s Todd Stephenson, National’s Matt Doocey, and of course David Seymour and Nicole McKee.

No doubt this will be referred to the Privileges Committee (and no doubt TPM will double-down).

However the interesting reaction will be how the likes of the Labour (and Green) Parties react to this at the Privileges Committee and whether they choose to distance themselves from Debbie Ngarewa-Packer’s actions or whether they continue with their “means to an end” charade (as articulated by Ginny Andersen in her interview with Mike Hosking on Wednesday) and support TPM.

And this applies to the MSM and the Maori media. I mean imagine if it were the other way round and Seymour made gun gestures to TPM MP’s – the MSM and Maori media would be outraged for weeks demanding resignations! So fair is fair.

But back to Labour, as Maggy astutely pointed out a couple of days ago here, Labour supporting TPM is coming at a cost to them – that of TPM taking away future votes from Labour!

And if Labour doesn’t “pull up” they will continue to lose the Maori seats to TPM! Will Labour be astute and make a play for the Maori seats as the voice of reason?

The rest of McKee’s interview is worth a watch as she explains TPM do not speak for all Maori people!

https://theplatform.kiwi/podcasts/episode/nicole-mckee-on-te-pati-maoris-outburst-in-parliament
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November 22, 2024 8:30am
- PurplePen
  
  Thanks. Will have a listen. Just as outrageous, imagine if the cowboy hat wearer had haka-ed and made gun gestures right in front of the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern when in the House.
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:41am
Chuck Bird

This is behind a paywall but worth reading for the comments that follow. It should be good for Act.

Christopher Luxon is completely out of his depth – Matthew Hooton

Nevertheless, despite claiming without evidence to have extensive experience in mergers and acquisitions, Luxon opted for the worst possible option, enraging Māori while bitterly dividing his own party.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/luxon-completely-out-of-his-depth-matthew-hooton/PFV32UVMLZC6TAFOBPDAX7KLRE/
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November 22, 2024 8:30am
- pdm
  
  Chuck I just had a look and could not find any comments.
  
  I refuse to pay The Herald anything not that I have ever been a subscriber. The Dominion was our family go to paper from before I was old enough to know what newspapers were..
  
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  November 22, 2024 8:34am
- kowtow
  
  Hooton , who helped unseat Bridges to install Muller .
  
  Bwahahahaha.
  
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  November 22, 2024 8:36am
- Luke Piewalker
  
  @Chuck … lost me at Matthew Hooton
  That guy is a candle in the wind.
  
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  November 22, 2024 8:40am
  - Paulus
    
    Don’t know about Candle, but Piss and Wind I can agree with !
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:05am
  - Keith White
    
    MH is more like flatulence in a bottle.
    
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    November 22, 2024 4:34pm
- Souvlaki
  
  Luxon has utterly failed to provide anyone with a cogent explanation on why we should not be equal under the law!
  He purports to be Christian….how does he therefore reconcile his indefensible stance wrt not allowing a referendum…huh?
  
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  November 22, 2024 8:48am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    “He purports to be Christian.”
    
    Same as Biden but he supported abortion to get votes. I wonder if Luxon would?
    
    He should look at Peter Dutton across the ditch.
    
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    November 22, 2024 8:59am
    - MCōs
      
      Luxon equates abortion to murder
      However there’s no way he’ll instigate any change to the law. That really would be political suicide.
      Left leaning devout Christian politicians tend to use the women’s right to decide line, which is a bit awkward if you call it murder.
      
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      November 22, 2024 10:41am
  - Ghost
    
    So his faith now has to be an attack point for not wanting a referendum. That’s a bit stupid
    
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    November 22, 2024 9:14am
    - kowtow
      
      Yeah well Sir Bill English was forced to prostrate himself on the Progressive Altar in order to get the National nomination , something Luxon wasn’t forced to do.
      
      perhaps the “broadchurch Nats ” of today are more comfortable with fundamentalist evangelical corporate city types who don’t have to do Red Guard self criticism while left footer rural farming people do.
      
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      November 22, 2024 9:22am
  - Eastlander
    
    Shipley has helpfully made his case for him: the National party leadership is afraid that there will be a Maori uprising if they restrict Iwi privileges too forcefully.
    
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    November 22, 2024 12:18pm
- rouppe
  
  When Luxon returned, more than 40 Treaty settlements had been completed and nearly 20 were in the pipeline, helping make Māori major players in the economy.
  
  While paying no tax, he didn’t add.
  
  The principles of the Treaty, which had been clearly defined by the Court of Appeal and Privy Council a quarter-century earlier, were deeply embodied in the law and practice.
  
  Sorry, where were they clearly defined?
  
  That’s the whole crux of the problem.
  
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  November 22, 2024 8:58am
  - PurplePen
    
    I’m assuming there must be some if not all printed defined by now. The courts et al have had a go at it since 1975. Is a list of them published anywhere.
    
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    November 22, 2024 10:43am
  - PurplePen
    
    Did a search and there is a list!!! It’s here
    
    https://www.trc.org.nz/digital-library/principles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi-as-defined-by-the-waitangi-tribunal/#:~:text=Appendix%20K%20%E2%80%93%20Principles%20of%20the,the%20Crown%20to%20govern%3B%204.
    
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    November 22, 2024 10:46am
    - rouppe
      
      Who the heck is that crowd?
      
      The Treaty Resource Centre doesn’t sound like a reliable source. I need to see it on legislation.govt.nz
      
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      November 22, 2024 2:17pm
- RoboRob
  
  After a very promising start and a heap of legislation rolled back it now appears we are in for a status quo National government.
  
  Not rolling things back like 1st year free uni, school lunches or the crazy number of government departments, just tinkering to make the poor policy better. Yes third year free is better then 1st, yes $3 lunches are better then $8 lunches, yes slightly (very slightly) less staff in government departments is better BUT these are all terrible policy (yes lunches are debatable) and could all have gone without the need to borrowing to increase.
  
  At this point I will not be voting National (Party or electorate) next election. Hopefully the upcoming polls will put some fire under them.
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:00am
  - kowtow
    
    Seymour on the Platform this am with Michael Laws , I could be wrong but listen for yourselves.
    
    He said 3 Acts are excluded from the legislative review to consider the principles mentioned therein.
    
    Those acts no doubt will be central to keeping the treaty gravy train running at wshat will still be very close to full steam ahead.
    
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    November 22, 2024 10:21am
- peterwn
  
  And when it suits Mr Hooton another time he would be stressing the importance of upholding coalition agreements. Then of course there are other commentators (frequently found on Kiwiblog) who will say that Chris Luxon should grow a pair etc and allow the Bill to proceed to law. Mr Hooton also commented that Chris Luxon was ‘bitterly dividing’ his own party. He did not elaborate, perhaps Party members or caucus are ‘bitterly’ divided as to whether to allow the Bill to go the full way or whether to halt it after second reading being a coalition compromise.
  Of course Chris Luxon could have refused to accept ACT’s requirement for a coalition agreement but then risked having ACT outside the tent and having to rely on ACT for support on a case by case basis.
  If Mr Hooton’s comments were that important then surely he would have persuaded the Herald not to put it behind a paywall.
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:03am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    He gets paid and all his articles are behind a paywall.
    
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    November 22, 2024 9:12am
  - cmm
    
    “Of course Chris Luxon could have refused to accept ACT’s requirement ”
    
    Perhaps it would be easier to just admit the situation we really have.
    
    Right now, National is closer to Labour than they are to Act. National and Labour could form a coalition that would be a far more honest reflection of the NZ political landscape.
    
    The only reason that there is a National/Labour split is to pretend we actually have a competitive political choice in NZ.
    
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    November 22, 2024 9:12am
    - RoboRob
      
      Never used to believe that but now I think we have
      
      National = left wing policy with management skills
      Labour = left wing policy with feelz
      
      So many choices 🙂
      
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      November 22, 2024 9:28am
  - RoboRob
    
    Hooton is a smart guy but he promotes whatever his current paymasters want him to. So you just cant trust him to be honest. He might be being honest here or an Act aligned group might be paying him. Generally don’t read or listen to his stuff.
    
    However, as one who says Luxon should grow some balls, Hooton has a point. Luxon chose the worst option when doing the coalition, he should have just allowed it and made it clear it was acts legislation and price for going into coalition. He didn’t need to come out saying he was going to scrap it after first reading, he could have just waited and done so. That was a poor political decision.
    
    From a what is right for the country position, clarifying the ‘treaty principles’ is the right thing. What’s the point of having legislation with ‘we will abide by the principles of the treaty’ if you don’t know what those are? It just allows activists on both sides to twist the law how they want it. I hear the apologists yelling, National is removing those clauses. To that I say
    
    1. They have said, only from legislation where it doesn’t apply. Since we don’t know what the principles are, how do we know whether they do or don’t apply? Even if they do apply, we are still stuck with people twisting them
    2. To my knowledge, with 1/3rd of their term complete. They have removed precisely zero clauses. There are likely tens of thousands of pieces of national and local government legislation to go through. Does anyone really expect national to still be in power three or four hundred years from now?
    
    So, in my opinion, Luxon ha chosen the worst political strategy and not done whats best for the country. That’s either because he
    
    1. Has no balls
    Or
    2. Doesn’t really want to change the status quo and believes in the current (undefined) principles.
    Pick your poison.
    
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    November 22, 2024 9:26am
    - Jack5
      
      Roborob’s …Hooton is a smart guy 😄🤣
      
      In Rootin Tootin Hooton’s own mind — and only in that restricted mind.
      
      But have to concede Hooton did whip along the National mutiny that overthrew Bridges and Bennett.
      
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      November 22, 2024 11:01am
      - Keith White
        
        It is smart, for some values of smart, and regardless of ethics or trustworthiness or honour, to collect money for going whichever way the wind blows.
        
        I’ve looked after more than a few people towards the end of their lives who regretted getting money that way, though. And they come to that realization rather late.
        
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        November 22, 2024 4:37pm
- kingerstinger
  
  Others have already made good comments about Hooton, but I’ll add mine anyway.
  
  Matt Hooton is a monumental blowhard who has had the shits with National for years, because his embarrassing attempt at getting Muller into power blew up in his face. He gets paid to slate them so the Herald can say, “Look! Even a right wing commentator thinks Luxon is crap”.
  
  Not worth the paper or pixels it’s printed on. Next.
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:34am
  - Matt Long
    
    Hooten went off National before Key even fully announced his progressive credentials. He has been all over the place since and appears to be writing for increased profile rather than ideologically.
    
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    November 22, 2024 10:48am
  - slijmbal
    
    I seem to recall Hooton was one of those “better to rent than purchase…” brigade a decade or so ago and thought he said he wasn’t buying or some such. Instantly led to a distrust of his opinions. I rarely read his stuff and what I have seen appears to be driven by his business interests rather than have any value.
    
    As kinger points out the token right winger but he’s not even that really.
    
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    November 22, 2024 9:04pm
- Damocles11
  
  The Herald and ‘worth reading’….nope, those two things do not belong together. Imagine subscribing to a left wing rag like the Herald just to get your jollies reading some comments…you can get the same effect for free on Facebook. Total facepalm. Every subscriber is directly funding the leftist assault on this country, I hope they can look themselves in the mirror.
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:29am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Hooten has gone left nut bar the day he started writing for the Ferald
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:41pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Shell Lane (The Terrace) bike rack report:

At 8.30am, zero bikes.

A calm, coolish, morning in the Capital, ideal for cycling.
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November 22, 2024 8:31am
- zulumonster
  
  12:15 update – still zero bikes …
  
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  November 22, 2024 1:05pm
Burtland

“RNZ has reminded its reporters of its policies to ensure they are seen to be and act as impartial when it comes to major news events” 😂

even better

RNZ’s social media policies were “to protect RNZ’s reputation for impartiality and objectivity”. 😂🤣😂

“do not in any public forum: state how they vote or express support for any particular party; express views for or against any policy which is a matter of party political debate; advocate any particular position on an issue of controversy or debate; exhort a change in high-profile public policy”.

– 🤡Jane Patterson🤡 – RNZ editorial quality 😂 and ~~training director~~ propaganda clown

The message follows the removal from Instagram of an image of RNZ Saturday Morning co-host Mihingarangi Forbes and ~~Hīkoi mō te Tiriti organiser~~ TPM operative Eru Kapa-Kingi at the hikoi in Auckland.

Well hidden by the Herald under Premium

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/media-insider/media-insider-ex-tvnz-hosts-payout-i-can-imagine-people-being-outraged-top-bank-owed-856m-by-failed-tv-firm-is-trademe-about-to-be-traded/Z6Z5L2VB4RFWLFKI63KSYGWIFY/
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November 22, 2024 8:37am
- Damocles11
  
  Where no-one except Chuck will ever read it.
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:31am
- graham
  
  From the article:
  
  “We often remind kaimahi of our editorial policy during major news events and it’s a feature of our broader training programmes,” said RNZ editorial quality and training director Jane Patterson.
  
  Sorry? We often remind our … what? I genuinely have no idea what that is. I thought “kai” was food and “kaimoana” was seafood, but other than no idea.
  
  But apart from that, the fact that RNZ actually has to remind its reporters that they should be seen as impartial when it comes to major news events, is a pretty sad indictment on the state of the Fourth Estate. If an experienced reporter has to be reminded of such a policy, that reporter is obviously failing pretty badly.
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:48am
  - muzled
    
    mahi is work so perhaps it’s food that works?
    
    A horse perhaps?
    
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    November 22, 2024 2:18pm
  - sirknz
    
    Work lunch?
    
    Thought we were supposed to be past this cannibalism lark…
    
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    November 22, 2024 3:14pm
Simon

You can read about the NZ style death penalty here.

https://www.ipca.govt.nz/Site/publications-and-media/2024-Reports-on-Investigations/
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November 22, 2024 8:37am
- peterwn
  
  So the IPCA would like to think that there was a non-lethal solution to the situation facing the officer where others were at risk. That the IPCA effectively had to admit that use of lethal force was justified under S48 Crimes Act says it all despite what armchair critics would like to think. That should also be the compleat answer if the Police administration is considering any internal action.
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:24am
  - kowtow
    
    The Cop deserves a medal.
    
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    November 22, 2024 12:04pm
    - Simon
      
      “The Cop deserves a medal.” 100%.
      
      If he had carried out the same actions in with the same circumstances say Afghanistan and the crim had been Taliban then he would have got a medal.
      
      Its unclear why he has not been awarded a bravery medal.
      
      The section 48 crimes act stuff is interesting. I wonder if the driver, the crim was sitting on, had knifed the crim if he would have been ok.
      
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      November 22, 2024 12:51pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Left Hosts flee X.
Megyn Kelly video 9 min. Funny af.

https://americanvoterpolls.com/top-left-hosts-flee-x-in-dramatic-show-of-solidarity/?
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November 22, 2024 8:57am
- rouppe
  
  I read that Ellen Degeneras has moved to England, and Eva Longoria is splitting her time between Spain and Mexico.
  
  Thank god they didn’t come here.
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:03am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes, NZ has enough wet wokes.
    
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    November 22, 2024 9:20am
  - cmm
    
    Degenerate will fit right in in the new UK.
    
    10 2
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    November 22, 2024 10:05am
    - sirknz
      
      She is a terrible human being, and my opinion of her has nothing to do with what her preference for her partner’s genitals are or her political preferences.
      
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      November 22, 2024 11:01am
  - RoboRob
    
    Eva Longoria has homes and work in those countries. Apparently she already spent much of her time there. She has already been back for a party in the US. So its all for show.
    
    Also, note the extreme care about the climate from those on the left. Thats at least three long haul (private jet?) international flights in the last 2 weeks. Just so she could leave the US, come back for a party and then fly out again.
    
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    November 22, 2024 10:39am
  - Keith White
    
    “Raises the IQ of both countries.”
    
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    November 22, 2024 4:38pm
Cassandra

Trump will blow up the climate concensus shortly, according to the UK Times. His appointments of leading fossil fuel managers as Energy and Interior Secretaries will lead to a massive increase in US oil production, from 13 billion bpd to 17. Subsidies for green energy will be removed. Musk and team will reduce Federal expenditure. Will NZ continue on its suicidal path in the face of this? The loss of central North Island businesses because of energy costs is just the tip of the iceberg. If we want a prosperous future radical measures will be vital. TINA.
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November 22, 2024 8:58am
- MarkF
  
  Billion bpd I think not, Million bpd I can believe.
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:57am
- Burtland
  
  its not just the IPCC and Mottley at COP …
  
  the creeping rot is spreading from the UN to the ICC, G20, the World Bank and the IMF. Then theres putin and his use of ICBMs and DRNK troops, Netanyahu cornered by the ICC and who knows about Iran.
  
  and thats without Trump even entering the fray – will he be the voice of sanity?
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:18am
- kowtow
  
  HDPA , last night , interviewed our returned “climate minister”.
  
  He was adamant that USA will make no difference.
  
  Talk about being an idiot and nailing your colours to the mast of the sinking ship.
  
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  November 22, 2024 12:03pm
- peterwn
  
  So the long suffering NZ taxpayer should subsidise electricity so loss making businesses can stay in business. It would be more honest for the Government to hand these industries a continuing handout.
  
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  November 22, 2024 12:31pm
Hugh Jarse

Anybody else ok if Portia Di Rossi leaves Ellen de Generis in the US and moves to NZ herself ? Just asking ?
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November 22, 2024 9:02am
- rouppe
  
  They’ve both, I think, moved to the Cotswolds, attending parties, and going to Jeremy Clarkson’s pub.
  
  The latter being odd given Clarkson doesn’t hate Trump.
  
  But both of them can look somewhere else than here as far as I’m concerned.
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:19am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Isnt Di Rossi Australian?
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:35am
Yvette

… day-to-day absurdities. These include an attempt to bar “menstruating personnel” (formerly known as women) from the curation facility, a campaign to ban research on ancient Carthaginian remains because the individuals concerned never consented to photography, and a plan to declare X-rays sacred, so that they can be repatriated to Native Americans (who may actually be Mexicans), prior to being burned or buried.

– yep, they are out there
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November 22, 2024 9:06am
RoboRob

NZ is full of terrible Labour policy that has been tweaked by National over the years to make it more affordable and more workable. Its about time the someone ripped it up.

This week my son applied for a student load for his second year at uni. The first was, stupidly, free. When he got to the living costs part of the application I had an ethical conundrum. He doesn’t need the money (his parents look after him well and he has a job) but financially the smart thing to do is borrow the $300+ per week maximum amount for the next 2 years and put it in the bank to earn interest. This of course means that the government needs to borrow more money (in his case ~ $20,000 just for the living costs) and pay interest on it, which is bad for the country.

So on one side, what is best for the country and on the other what is best for him. It gets worse though as
1. He doesn’t even need the student loan as he has enough savings to pay BUT a loan is interest free and his savings earn him money
2. He wont pay the living costs back for years after completing his degree, with that money earning him interest.

We only have this stupid situation because Labour removed all interest from student loans. If they had a small, say Inflation + 0.5% , interest rate this would never be an issue. It would almost always be best to borrow only what you need and pay it back ASAP. At the moment we actively encourage students to borrow the most they can and pay it back as slowly as possible.

A stupid policy that all politicians are either too stupid, or timid, to fix. Grow some balls and do what’s right for the country not what is politically safest.
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November 22, 2024 9:09am
- cmm
  
  You are being incentivized to be a beneficiary.
  The government would prefer everyone was taxed at 90% and everyone was on welfare.
  
  ” This of course means that the government needs to borrow more money … and pay interest on it, ”
  
  Nope, the government pays nothing. It is the taxpayer paying everything.
  
  If you are a net tax payer (paying more than, say, $50k a year in tax) then you can think of it as you just giving him the money via the government.
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:32am
- sirknz
  
  Take what you can and invest it in something, then pay back the principal or top up the lowered income as it is paid back slowly over the years from the investment.
  
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  November 22, 2024 11:05am
- PurplePen
  
  Definitely borrow interest free and invest it wisely. It’s what any private company would do just as they maximise and are duty-bound to maximise their profit within whatever constraints are in place by govt. There is no or little benefit to you or the individual from patriotism or by ‘doing what’s best for the country’. Your son will be dead in less than 80 years. Do you think anyone in the country is going to thank him for his patriotism let alone know he existed once he’s gone .. well after a generation perhaps.
  
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  November 22, 2024 11:13am
  - RoboRob
    
    Sound advice and exactly what we decided to do. Its just shit that you have to make the choice.
    
    FYI we also decided a viable use of the money would be for a deposit on a house as the student loan money is interest free. Much better to have a shorter mortgage and a longer student loan.
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:46am
- Skippytony
  
  And, to put some sauce on that pie, there is a not insignificant chance that a future government starts thinking about forgiving some or all of those student liabilities.
  
  Really, why would you not?
  
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  November 22, 2024 11:56am
  - sirknz
    
    That is probably the only way Labour gets in again.
    
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    November 22, 2024 3:44pm
Tom Barker

A few days ago Robert Gillies of Rotorua, last surviving member of the Maori Battalion, died. Late in his life he recalled what postwar life was like for him as a decorated war veteran. He always had to carry plenty of cash since no one would accept a cheque from a Maori. When his son was hospitalised in another town Gillies and his wife wanted to stay near him but every hotel he went to said they were full up. He went to a phone booth and rang the last hotel he tried. “Certainly, Mr Gillies, we have plenty of rooms available. You’re welcome to stay as long as you like.”
I have no doubt that the people who refused to accept a cheque from Gillies, or who turned him away from their hotel, would have indignantly rejected any suggestion that they were racist. They probably felt they were being prudent, and following standard practice. Yet racist they were.
Gillies came to regret fighting for a country that mistreated him and his people. I saw numbers of people on the Hīkoi carrying his photograph.
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November 22, 2024 9:12am
- Eastlander
  
  Entirely unmoved by attempts at emotional manipulation from mongrel mob associates.
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:42am
- cmm
  
  Certainly he was treated badly back then. However there is no reason to carry that forward as a grudge now.
  Where are Maori checques being refused in 2020?
  
  Using past mistreatment of another person to justify claiming victimhood status in the present is broken. Claiming victimhood status if you, personally, are a victim today is valid.
  
  This is not just a Maori vs white thing either. This is common through the world:
  * Irish claiming victimhood because of the way English treated them 200 years ago.
  * Afrikaners claiming victimhood over the Boer War internment camps over 120 years ago.
  * Slavery until the 1800s.
  * Jews who were nowhere near Germany claiming victimhood over the Holocaust.
  
  Yes, racism was wrong. That was corrected. It seems however that those claiming victimhood today are using it to justify “reverse racism” (really just racism) today.
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:43am
  - Flossie
    
    My great grandmother wasn’t allowed to vote….
    
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    November 22, 2024 10:43am
    - cmm
      
      None of them.
      
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      November 22, 2024 10:57am
    - Taieri
      
      Neither was mine. And she wasn’t Maori.
      
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      November 22, 2024 11:04am
  - sirknz
    
    Where are Maori checques being refused in 2020?
    
    Everywhere, they are no longer accepted as a payment method anymore in NZ, no matter what your ethnicity is.
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:07am
  - MCōs
    
    I see a painting stolen by the Nazis from some Jewish family who they murdered was up for auction in Sotheby’s the other day.
    The descendants profited from the sale, but the rest of the collection is lost.
    Years ago I did some drawings for family friends who, along with a number of other people, owned some Māori land up near Thames.
    When they went along to apply for a permit they got a cold reception. It appeared some pakeha descendants of gold mining prospectors on Māori land had illegally converted legal shacks into permanent houses over the years and now the owners wanted them gone.
    It didn’t effect our mates’ land, but they were collateral damage
    People just thought they could get away with stealing Māori land
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:20am
- wsk12345
  
  Sad that people who do nothing for NZ and will never contribute anything are using the memory of someone who did for political gain.
  
  Sure those things happened. But decades ago – not today. Move on people.
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:44am
- Jigsaw
  
  That is of course terrible. The other side of that is that Maori in both wars were exempt from conscription and did not have to serve- and in fact Tainui as a tribe refused to serve. Why is that fact covered up?
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:44am
  - Tom Barker
    
    You are entirely wrong that Maori were exempt from conscription. In WW1 Maori in the Western Maori electorate, which included Tuhoe and Tainui, became subject to conscription in June 1917. Members of both iwi refused to serve and served prison terms as a result. Their view was – why should we fight for a country that fought against us 50 years earlier, and has since made no efforts at reconciliation?
    
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    November 22, 2024 10:41am
  - RoboRob
    
    Wow, never heard that. If true that’s yet another example of our great ‘different rules for different ethnicities ‘ culture. Yet people, Maori and liberal elites, still push for this stuff.
    
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    November 22, 2024 10:46am
- Sparrow
  
  Well said. Unfortunately it’s still there today. Speaking to a Māori friend recently they gave a common example. When wandering around stores like Farmers they are followed around by security. Its automatically assumed that because they are Māori they are going to steal.
  
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  November 22, 2024 9:49am
  - Flossie
    
    Is that just one person’s anecdote? Friend working in a big store security says they don not target suspicious looking people by race. There are many things they’re trained to watch for.
    
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    November 22, 2024 10:50am
  - RoboRob
    
    This not racism, that’s profiling, and in my option perfectly fine. Unfortunately for your friend, because people who look like him tend to steal he has to suffer the consequences. What are they supposed to do, follow the little old white ladies in pearls around instead?
    
    Yes I am sure some of those steal too but Farmers will have stats on who is most likely to steal so you watch those people more closely.
    
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    November 22, 2024 10:50am
    - MCōs
      
      I never get followed by security
      Must be because I’m an old grandpa with laughing eyes!
      
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      November 22, 2024 12:23pm
      - Flossie
        
        Perhaps there’s nobody physically stalking you but there are cameras watching!!
        
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        November 22, 2024 3:09pm
    - Burtland
      
      bit like catching the drink driver outside the pub at night
      
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      November 22, 2024 10:26pm
  - cmm
    
    It isn’t assumed they will steal but that there is a higher risk of them stealing. And considering Maori commit disproportionate amounts of crime that would be a valid.
    
    I doubt that ethnicity is the only factor in such targeting. They follow people according to various factors. For example high school kids – no matter their ethnicity.
    
    My wife and I typically wear relatively scruffy clothing and she often gets targeted but I don’t. She has “the look”, but I don’t.
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:03am
  - sirknz
    
    Whenever we pass through airport security, my wife is always searched, I am ignored and let on through. Doesn’t matter whether it is domestic or international.
    
    She is a Maori 1%er (99% of her DNA is from Europe) and I have more ‘ethnic’ than she does.
    
    In saying that, she doesn’t get followed around at stores so I guess she is missing out on the full Maori experience if what you are saying applies to all.
    
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    November 22, 2024 11:13am
  - Jack5
    
    Sparrow’s …wandering around stores like Farmers they are followed around by security …
    
    If they feel that it’s more than likely it’s because Maori activists are telling Maori that they are followed around.
    
    Stores increasingly have in-store video, and “following” is useless. More is to come with facial recognition.
    
    Almost everyone at some time in their life has been considered suspicious while they were innocent and, they thought, innocuous, either in NZ or abroad.
    
    It’s a cost of modern retail outlets – walk through and expose customers to as much temptation to buy as possible.
    
    If that makes you uncomfortable, buy online.
    
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    November 22, 2024 12:28pm
- Cassandra
  
  People declining cheques from Maori based their decision on experience, not racism. Awful for honest people but it was what it was. And a long time ago. I was a victim of crime as a child – a group of Maoris (kids my age) tried to steal my bike, damaging it in the process. That incident made me very wary of Maoris at that time.
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:05am
  - RoboRob
    
    Yup, if a few Maoris pay you by cheque and they bounce it’s human nature and sensible to be wary of excepting cheques from other Maori. It sucks but its not racism.
    
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    November 22, 2024 10:53am
    - MCōs
      
      If anyone paid me by cheque I’d wonder where they’d got it from
      
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      November 22, 2024 12:18pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Yes, its not your responsibility to treat a group with trust if other members of the group have breached that trust.
      
      If they have a grievance then they can go see the ones who pissed in the soup.
      
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      November 22, 2024 12:21pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  But history ought never to be confused with nostalgia. It’s written, not to revere the dead, but to inspire the living. It’s our cultural bloodstream – the secret of who we are.
  
  And it tells us to let go of the past even as we honour it, to lament what ought to be lamented, to celebrate what should be celebrated.
  
  He could have added that it’s not supposed to be used as a cudgel for endlessly beating modern society with guilt and shaming, although if you’re a hard-line Leftie who wants to destroy society so that your utopia will arise from the ashes then it makes perfect sense to do that.
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:25am
- cmm
  
  OK, so back in the 1950s some white guys were cautious about accepting cheques from Maori people they didn’t know personally due to a lot of Maori at the time writing rubber cheques.
  
  One thing to ask is whether such practices at the time were also racist by Maoris: Let’s see if we can con this stupid white guy with a rubber cheque.
  
  What has that got to do with now? What has that got to do with me?
  
  In the 1950s I wasn’t alive and I only came to live in NZ in 1992. Absolutely none of any racism to Maori in the past is due to me or my ancestors.
  
  To blame me for racism against Maori because I have a white skin is in itself racist.
  
  If we’re going to blame on a race basis then surely we should be allowed to claim brownie points on a race basis too. Brits fought slavery – many dying – right up into the 1900s. I didn’t do so personally but both my grandfathers did.
  
  If I am supposed to be blamed for their shortcomings then I should be able to claim their good deeds too.
  
  If we are going to make it about race, then “we” have brought the Maori all sorts of wonderful things from the wheel to KFC. Surely we should get thanked for that too?
  
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  November 22, 2024 11:15am
  - sirknz
    
    Can’t use ‘brownie points’ anymore, too racist.
    
    – Some weirdo on reddit probably
    
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    November 22, 2024 3:50pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Who would accept a cheque from Tom Barker?
  I wouldnt.
  There is a reason Cheques got replaced by Debit and Credit cards
  
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  November 22, 2024 11:15am
- Swifty
  
  I haven’t the time nor capacity to feel bad for the things Bom Gillies went through, I’m still processing and getting over the intergenerational trauma of the terrible things Maori inflicted on fellow Maori during the Musket Wars and before.
  
  The invasions, the butchery, the massacres, the enslavement and rape. All horrific. All just terrible.
  
  I wasn’t there at the time, of course, but neither were the Maori grizzling about what happened 150-200 years ago either.
  
  All around me I see Maori doing extremely well – as politicians, as esteemed legal and academic people, as business people, community leaders etc etc and are who are occupying very privileged positions in New Zealand society.
  
  Far, far more privileged than little old me.
  
  If there in inequity and inequality we need to look at, it’s not Maori versus everyone else – it’s successful Maori versus not so successful Maori.
  
  If NZ is such a shit country, so abominably racist as some would have us believe, why have we got so many Maori doing wonderfully well?
  
  Why have we got many successful Maori but some not? Is our institutional racism selective in some way in that it targets or affects some Maori but not others?
  
  Maybe Tom Barker could turn his vast brain to those issues?
  
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  November 22, 2024 11:45am
Handyman

Reporting on the principles has been so shallow.
Vox pop and “commentators” comments fall into two categories:

1. Maori were deprived of their rights under the Waitangi Treaty.
2. The Principles Bill takes away our special (Maori) rights given to us under the Treaty.

We need another Ardern moment. Remember at a Waitangi Day celebration, Ardern gave a rousing speech in defence of the treaty. However, when asked, she could not name one article of the treaty. Willie Jackson whispered in her ear and she repeated “Maori Sovereignty”.

Reporters need to ask commentators and protestors “name one clause of the principles bill” before asking the obligatory “Should Luxon resign?”
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November 22, 2024 9:14am
Cassandra

Musk: “Massive headcount reduction”. Anyone refusing to be in the office 5 days a week will be sacked.
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November 22, 2024 9:15am
- Paulus
  
  My son’s Company in Auckland – an Aussie subsidiary will follow Head Office from 1st January next, 5 days a week again.
  They have been generous all year with that knowledge.
  Resignations are only accepted in writing.
  
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  November 22, 2024 11:17am
kingerstinger

The Herald is making a big song and dance about some nobody author who has penned a template “No” submission for the TPB.

This is apparently a massive service to the country and something that hasn’t been done before.

Funny, because 2 days ago I got an email from ACT with a template “Yes” submission. Hmm.
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November 22, 2024 9:36am
- David Garrett
  
  kinger: Don’t waste your time completing a “form” Submission whoever may have sent you the same.
  
  I can confirm that unless things have greatly changed since my time, “form” submissions are accorded very little weight by Select Committees; most are not even read.
  
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  November 22, 2024 12:03pm
Ghost

Putin’s address today

We consider ourselves justified in using our weapons against military targets in those countries that allow their weapons to be used against our facilities. In the event of an escalation of aggressive actions, we will respond decisively and accordingly.

Article
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November 22, 2024 9:47am
- Handyman
  
  I expect any peace deal by President Trump to be backed up by an “International Peace keeping force” which will not be UN but look a bit like NATO.
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:05am
- Cassandra
  
  I wonder. Do you really think he’s going to send an ICBM into Aldershot?
  
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  November 22, 2024 10:07am
- G152
  
  In other words he is going to do something stupid and Russia will be nuked into oblivion but its not his fault
  
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  November 22, 2024 11:44am
PurplePen

Herald reports Wgtn Airport’s new brand ‘reflected is connection to the land outlining the local story of how one of Wellington’s original supernatural creatures, Whataitai, ascended in bird form to pass through a portal to the universe and beyond’. I’ve left out all the Maori words as they’re just a duplication. But really!? Reads more as if the marketing team has been smoking too much weed. Does anyone actually believe or can even prove that a brand change will change the profit margin. Consider Changi airport. In all their years have they changed branding, or Sydney, etc.
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November 22, 2024 9:57am
- Cassandra
  
  Must have used the same agency as Jaguar.
  
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  November 22, 2024 12:00pm
- nathie
  
  What a pity Wgtn Airport’s management isn’t acknowledging the rich history of how and why an airport was developed at Rongotai in the first place (initially at Lyall Bay) and how Charles Kingsford Smith made the first trans-tasman landing there in 1929!
  
  Coming up to the 100 year anniversary will it be celebrated or will Wellington Airport management double down on mythological story-telling instead?
  
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  November 22, 2024 1:48pm
Handyman

Russia has a critical strategic weakness. Most of its oil goes through a piping hub in Southern Russia. If this gets damaged, the oil 100’s of KM upstream freezes and takes years to fix.
This happened in the nineties when the oil price sank and the oil did not flow. The oil in the Siberian pipes froze and it took 20 years of effort (with western expertise) to fully repair.
I can imagine Trump channelling his inner Godfather. “That is a nice oil export industry you have there Mr Putin. It would be a shame if something happened to it.”
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November 22, 2024 10:20am
- kowtow
  
  Right now Russian gas goes through Ukraine to supply states in western Europe .
  
  Some “war”.
  
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  November 22, 2024 11:52am
  - Conservatarian
    
    War is a great business, but war + energy is even better.
    
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    November 22, 2024 1:54pm
- cmm
  
  If you take the Russian oil out of the world supply then world oil prices will go through the roof. That will end up driving up prices in USA and work against Trump.
  
  I doubt he’s that stupid.
  
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  November 22, 2024 12:22pm
  - mogg
    
    Trump will get fracking, before grandad Joe the US was not only self sufficient in oil and gas but also exporting.
    
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    November 22, 2024 1:51pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Seems some Mods …

[ Mod – we don’t get into blog discussions, so complaints about moderation typically die. Take it up with DPF.]
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November 22, 2024 10:36am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It has been done.
  
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  November 22, 2024 2:45pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Peter Williams substack.

Te Pati Maori End Game.

“The country’s youngest MP has revealed the answer to the question many have been asking for some time.
What is the end game for Te Pati Maori?”

https://peterallanwilliams.substack.com/p/te-pati-maori-end-game
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November 22, 2024 10:42am
- mogg
  
  No need to worry the silent majority are watching. According to Barry Soper after the Hikoi ‘if Greens and TPM are the coalition partners Labour are depending on it doesn’t bear thinking about’.
  Whether intentionally or not Labour have now firmly aligned themselves with TPM. Hipkins has signed his own death warrant he will have to go.
  
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  November 22, 2024 1:47pm
- nathie
  
  From Peter Williams’ well written and astute article:
  
  What Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke was imploring hikoi attendees to do was to register on the Māori roll so as to increase the number of Māori electorates, coming at the expense of general seats – because as the Māori Roll increased, the General Roll would decrease.
  
  The problem with all this is that many Māori are of mixed heritage eg Māori and English/Scottish/Irish etc.
  
  So should Māori of mixed heritage be on the Māori electoral roll or the general electoral roll?
  
  Tricky huh!
  
  That should be the debate and also whether the Māori electorates are actually needed in a multi-cultural society? And if they are, then should they be for people that are predominately Māori (percentage wise)?
  
  Rather than the mixed Māori of today that are predominately white but had a single Māori mother or father many generations ago?
  
  And before I get accused of being “racist” by the hypocrital left, I am of mixed heritage myself. I would never call myself wholly one or the other. So I’m a mixture (and happily acknowledge that) and at the end of the day, a proud New Zealander!
  
  Like the majority of us Kiwis, we are all mostly of mixed heritage!
  
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  November 22, 2024 2:08pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Big Pharma’s Secret War: Huge Spending to Silence RFK Jr. Revealed.
Video 8.10. DJT jr 5 min in.

https://americanvoterpolls.com/big-pharmas-secret-war-huge-spending-to-silence-rfk-jr-revealed/?
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November 22, 2024 10:55am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Boston Mayor Vows to Oppose Trump Migrant Plan – Trump Declares He’ll Use the Army.
Now there is something about Defence Forces can not be used against American Citizens on American soil. But these people are not Americans, they are illegal aliens.

https://pjnewsletter.com/boston-mayor-vows-to-oppose/?
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November 22, 2024 11:13am
Jack5

A capital gains tax is the only way to widen the tax base,
Treasury and Inland Revenue have told the Government.

This is because of the country’s ageing population.

I guess this means a lower proportion of income-tax payers and a higher proportion of net receivers of taxpayer money.

This is from Radio NZ’s web site.

But why does Red Radio go to economist Shamubeel Eaqub for rather obvious comment?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/534377/capital-gains-tax-the-best-way-to-raise-revenue-as-nz-s-population-ages-treasury
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November 22, 2024 11:38am
- Jack5
  
  Let’s go further than the Treasury-IRD suggestions on capital gains tax.
  
  Separate that tax revenue into some new organisation like the old State Advances Corporation, and use it to subsidise young couples’ initial move into home ownership. This might get the country breeding again.
  
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  November 22, 2024 1:28pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    The breeding numbers get a bit challenging.
    
    I gather that our reproduction rate at present is something like 1.5. That means for every 100 women of childbearing age in the population now there will be 75 replacements. Do this for a couple of generations and for every 100 women now there are now, there will be 50 “new” ones.
    
    So breeding the numbers back up becomes a bit of a challenge.
    
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    November 22, 2024 2:14pm
    - Jethrod
      
      Ah but, west Asians are always looking for another country and they are prolific breeders
      
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      November 22, 2024 3:21pm
    - Burtland
      
      the UN instigated a global plan to educate women to reduce global population
      – the side effect was that educated 1st world women didnt have kids and needed immigrants to keep functioning, the uneducated 3rd world kept growing and provided the numbers economies needed to avoid being hollowed out.
      
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      November 23, 2024 9:52am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Like the 15 “Independent” economists that don’t like what the government are doing. Rennie who is a union economist and Ganesh Nana!!!! FFS. Independent my butt!
  
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  November 22, 2024 4:19pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkfF0sjcxho
The Democrats’ Biggest Problem Going Forward.
In this clip, Nathan Crankfield discusses the shifting dynamics within the Democratic Party and the broader implications for American politics. He categorizes Democrats into three groups based on their political beliefs and reactions to recent elections, highlighting the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead for both the left and right. Nathan emphasizes the need for a more reasonable approach to politics and critiques the extreme positions taken by some factions within the party.
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November 22, 2024 12:04pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkLXDZlgO50
Mark my words, Jaguar will go bust.
What is it with the modern advertising industry and big corporate companies? Think Jaguar. Think of the E-Type. Think of the powerful logo on the front of the car of Inspector Morse. Of a really great British brand. [The car version of the Bud Lite ad.]
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November 22, 2024 12:05pm
- PurplePen
  
  Why would you change the logo etc. Would Nike, Coca Cola, Chanel. You’ve spent years building it and protecting it. Why throw all that away. Unfathomable.
  
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  November 22, 2024 1:35pm
  - sungsamning
    
    Yeah, they should have had Don from Madmen do the ad.
    
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    November 22, 2024 8:01pm
- mogg
  
  Times are tough in the motor industry, this is absolute desperation from Jaguar.
  
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  November 22, 2024 1:37pm
  - sungsamning
    
    Looks like they’re to have the car version of the Bud Lite ad. Obviously Dylan Mulvaney wasn’t available.
    
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    November 22, 2024 8:02pm
- Sparrow
  
  These advertising people and car designers don’t care a shit about the history of brands. I am afraid they are not catering for us old petrol heads its a different public. My very old humble Mini Cooper cries when he sees the new elongated ugly Minis. I am worried he is going to blow a gasket when he comes across an E Mini for the first time !!! Might have to walk home.
  
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  November 22, 2024 1:52pm
- Burtland
  
  companies like jaguar or mini have long since moved on from being a car brand – they are a branding tool for capitalists to make money – woke is the current fashion amongst the creatives in western cities so woke they will become
  
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  November 23, 2024 10:07am
Ghost

Still applying for permanent name suppression. Hopefully doesn’t get it so if there are any more victims out there they can come forward.

The former political figure who plied two teenaged boys with alcohol and sexually abused them has been sentenced to two-a-half years in prison.

The man, aged in his 50s, had asked for home detention when he appeared at the Auckland District Court on Friday. Judge David Sharp said that would be inappropriate.

Article
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November 22, 2024 12:39pm
- Ghost
  
  This is outrageous
  
  Judge David Sharp declined his application for permanent name suppression.
  
  However his lawyer, Ian Brookie, indicated his client would be taking his case to the High Court. That meant Judge Sharp had to make an interim suppression order to protect his appeal rights.
  
  One of the survivors took the unusual step to have his automatic name suppression lifted. Judge Sharp granted the application.
  
  However, Brookie was soon on his feet and told Judge Sharp his client would be appealing.
  
  The appeal means the survivor has been prevented from lifting his name suppression.
  
  The victim should be allowed to have their own name suppression lifted. It smells more and more like this person knows there are more victims out there that would come out if his name was known. Well, more known.
  
  Article
  
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  November 22, 2024 3:06pm
  - cas
    
    Bound to be loads more victims. What is the penalty if the victim goes ahead and talks about it while the appeal is trundling through the Court system?. I guess the latter will take years.
    
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    November 22, 2024 3:24pm
Conservatarian

Hosking this morning on his monologue described himself as a libertarian. I’ve never heard him self-describe in that way.

Now, I like Hosking and agree with >80% of his views. However, in mid-late 2021, he was screaming at any New Zealander (like me) who refused to take the barely tested experimental gene therapy which we were assured was “safe and effective” by that burgeoning vaccine saleswoman and former leader of the World Soviet of Young Progressives (or whatever that organisation was).
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November 22, 2024 1:16pm
Conservatarian

The Illinois Supreme Court throws hate-crime hoaxer Jussie Smollett something of a bone.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/jussie-smollett/2024/11/21/jussie-smollett-overturned-illinois-supreme-court

“This is MAGA Country”
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November 22, 2024 1:48pm
fredonas

“Sanft is in chronic pain from osteoporosis, but has been denied access to assisted dying because it is not terminal.
“Compassion over faith or politics is needed to overcome this cruelty. Please please please. Use your privileged position to change things for the benefit of people with unbearable suffering without any relief,” he told the review.”
I have sympathy for this guy and all I can suggest is that fish oil supplements and calcium / vitamin D tablets worked well for my elderly Mum in her final years.
https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/360494707/end-life-act-review-calls-overcome-cruelty-not-priority
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November 22, 2024 1:58pm
slightlyrighty

I see that John Tamihere has spoken out about the prominent case of the political figure found guilty for sex assaults against underage boys.

https://www.waipareira.com/johns-column/maori-want-one-law-for-all

Without a hint of irony, he claims that this man should not be able to hide his identity, and there should be one law for all.

Forgive me if I’m oversimplifying this, but is that not the point of David Seymour’s Treaty Principles bill??
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November 22, 2024 3:00pm
- Ghost
  
  This is a rather old post
  
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  November 22, 2024 4:36pm
thirteenstars

Leah Panapa talks to Chief Medical Officer at the Ministry of Health Dr Joe Bourne about the Ministry of Health’s evidence brief for puberty blockers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smf2J-m7Xoc

But check this out. After the interview with Dr Joe Bourne was over, Leah and her producer, Kelly, revealed something which is pretty scandalous.

When a caller phones in the caller’s number is saved and their name is associated with it. This is highly useful should the caller phone in on other occasions. Turns out that when Dr Joe Bourne called The Platform to take part in the interview his number showed up associated with another name indicating he had called previously under a pseudonym with Leah speculating that he had called to argue in favour of transitioning children, a subject that has been discussed often on The Platform.

This is the Chief Medical Officer.

https://www.health.govt.nz/about-us/organisation-and-leadership/chief-clinical-officers#toc-0-3
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November 22, 2024 3:06pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Mobile number? Or landline? Or main line from MoH? Makes a difference.
  
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  November 22, 2024 8:14pm
Ra Henare

I was amazed to read Mike Hosking’s rant this morning on Zb re Free Speech.

Extract talking about Musks ownership of X.

He argues it’s free speech, but it’s free speech at the lowest level, so it’s ugly. He still defends it, and it makes life for a libertarian like me hard because I like the idea of truly free speech and, as a result of that belief, I have nothing to do with ‘X’ because I have standards.

What is Mike Smoking.
Free speech is exactly that, no ifs or bust.
Yes, sometime a reader might think free speech is ugly. An alternative is called censorship.

So what is it that Mike is proposing when he says he believes in truly free speech.!!!!

His(Hosking) free speech is OK, ugly free speech should be censored/banned??

The word hypocrite springs to mind.
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November 22, 2024 4:11pm
John Loveridge

My cousin is having a fit at his daughter being made to watch this video in her Year 10 English class yesterday.

https://www.instagram.com/arohahaha/reel/DCYfDSpzlka/
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November 22, 2024 4:48pm
Jack5

Seymour’s right, says Trotter

How did a Parliamentary bill “with just six months to live” inspire so many thousand, mainly Maori to gather outside Parliament, asks Chris Trotter in is blog (link below).

He answers:

“They are still fighting because they know that David Seymour is right. His bill might be killed at its Second Reading, but the issues he has raised will not die.”

https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2024/11/beyond-question.html
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November 22, 2024 5:37pm
John Loveridge

Rock band the Cure have released a new album. It’s a gothic concept album about the collapse of society under a socialist regime led by a narcissistic, intellectually challenged tyrant. It’s called Jacindagration.
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November 22, 2024 5:47pm

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