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November 17, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 17 November 2024

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General Debate

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Yvette

Although it is not part of the text of te Tiriti, Lieutenant Governor Hobson, in response to a question from Catholic Bishop Pompallier, made the following statement prior to the signing of the Treaty: “The Governor says that the several faiths (beliefs) of England, of the Wesleyans, of Rome, and also Māori custom shall alike be protected.” This is sometimes referred to as Article Four of the Treaty, and relates to the right to freedom of religion and belief (wairuatanga).
https://tikatangata.org.nz/human-rights-in-aotearoa/human-rights-and-te-tiriti-o-waitangi#

Not all Maori Chiefs were able to read, but spoke and listened, so, as with the other Articles of the Treaty, if in response to a question from Catholic Bishop Pompallier, Lieutenant Governor Hobson made the statement prior to the signing, why is it not part of the Treaty – the right to freedom of religion and belief (wairuatanga), and indeed the right to be free of religion.

“Māori custom shall alike be protected”. So “alike” is surely an operative word as much as the 1970’s word “akin to a partnership” where “akin” is misconstrued as “equal”, so “co-governance”, has changed the path of history – well, New Zealand history.
So ‘alike’ surely means the Government must be neutral – it should be secular, unless a context requires an appropriate religious response, with such services usually being provided from suitable officials or their nominations, from outside of Government?

Thus the government should not favour or exemplify any one religion – at the moment like the religious aspects of te Ao o Maori, which currently penetrates almost anything from the National’s continuance (by new appointments) for the Maori Advisory Council to Water Regulator Taumata Arowai, to pharmacy union induction, real estate qualification, and almost anything written by education’s NZCER, and law’s uptake of “tikanga”

A Secular Government should have been a clause in ACT’s bill.
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November 17, 2024 8:01am
- PurplePen
  
  “the several faiths (beliefs) of England, of the Wesleyans, of Rome, and also Māori custom shall alike be protected.”
  
  If that’s what was said, even though ‘protected’ isn’t defined, it’s clear the intention is Maori custom be treated the same as as any other religion might be in a civil society. That is, that you’re free to practice your religion or custom. Nothing more. An issue today is it seems the concept of ‘protected’ and only in relation to Maori custom, has been expanded such that the government of the day actually provides all sorts of funding for all manner of Maori customs. If that’s the case then shouldn’t the same be being funded for all customs or religions in NZ. I think not.
  
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  November 17, 2024 10:51am
  - Michael Sommerville
    
    Slavery and cannibalism were also customs prior to 1840. Are they protected? //
    
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    November 17, 2024 4:50pm
    - PurplePen
      
      No. There’s this from 1852 NZ Constitution Act that outlaws it. That Act has since been superseded.
      
      71. And Whereas it may be expedient that the laws, customs, and usages of the aboriginal or native inhabitants of New Zealand, so far as they are not repugnant to the general principles of humanity, should for the present be maintained for the government of themselves, in all their relations to and dealings with each other, and that particular districts should be set apart within which such laws, customs, or usages should be so observed.
      
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      November 17, 2024 5:59pm
- Jake Dee
  
  “A Secular Government should have been a clause in ACT’s bill.
  I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, Secular government just can’t be done. All societies are regulated on metaphysical concepts and the line that separates those beliefs from old school religious beliefs is just too impossibly fine to draw.
  Any law that declares government to be “Secular” will just be used by one faction of government to purge another faction of government on the grounds that they are religious believers.
  It is obvious that all MY metaphysical beliefs are rock hard science whilst all of YOURS are just superstitious woo-woo.
  
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  November 17, 2024 8:36pm
CJames

A report has come out that the case South Africa brought against Israeil for genocide in the International Criminal Court was financed by those shining examples of human rights, Iran and Qatar. There are formal ties between ANC and Hamas and South Africans promote Islamism, being a major finance centre for terrorism – inconvenient facts that progressives gloss over. And of course, there is Russian money in there.
https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/SA_Report_Final_111124.pdf
Why am I not surprised? Just another brick in the wall of the destruction of the credibility of “international” forums. Yet the NZ government continues to believe they do good and funds them.
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November 17, 2024 8:01am
Yvette

Hansard

RAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader—Te Pāti Māori):
… that is how we do it. Everybody on the Māori roll; if you are Māori, get on the Māori roll. Talk to your
[Authorised reo Māori text to be inserted by the Hansard Office.]
The rangatahi are migrating. They are registering on the Māori roll. That must be our goal.
[Authorised reo Māori text to be inserted by the Hansard Office.]
Thirty-five thousand people marched yesterday across that bridge, and they will arrive here at Parliament. And one message to you, David, is “See you next Tuesday.” Kia ora tātou.
https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20241114_20241114_40.

Apparently, if someone says ‘See you next Tuesday’ then sniggers childishly, the appropriate response is ‘Tuesday, Wednesday And Thursday’ – the Government MPs missed an opportunity there.
______________

The Maori Party, last Thursday haka in Parliament has gotten global attention by media outlets such as the BBC and CNN.
There were “high tensions on all sides” of the Treaty debate and the issues surrounding it were “complex”, Luxon] said.
“They’ve been built up over 184 years through good debate and discussion. We go forwards, we go backwards, we don’t always agree, but actually it’s made us a much better country.
“It’s too simplistic with a stroke of a pen to say ‘we’re going to resolve 184 years of debate’.”
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/533976/treaty-principles-bill-haka-mps-must-uphold-standards-of-parliament-luxon-says.

After “We will not support it after the Committee stage” has become a broken recording, so now has “It’s too simplistic with a stroke of a pen to say ‘we’re going to resolve 184 years of debate’.”
A reasonable answer of course when you think about it is “Why not?”
“184 years” also echoes the sandpit argument “We were here first” – “So, what does that mean?”

As suggested yesterday, if Luxon wants complexity, let him implement Seymour’s simplicity.
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November 17, 2024 8:06am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Tuesday, Wednesday And Thursday’ –
  
  Do we really want our Government ministers resorting to such pathetic displays of vaginal euphemisms?
  
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  November 17, 2024 9:57am
  - Clyde
    
    No we don’t. Basically we want our House of Representatives to be a place that is respected. The rabble simply don’t respect the House and continue to push the boundaries each and every day. That is why it is important to write to the Speaker and the leaders of the Government to express your views.
    
    As an aside, I see some vocalist going by the name of Lorde supports this angry East Polynesian who ripped up the Bill in Parliament. Will have the same effect as Taylor Swift supporting the word salad Harris in the US elections.
    
    Folks, it is time to meet this insidious descent into apartheid head on. If we want New Zealand to be the new Zimbabwe, do nothing.
    
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    November 17, 2024 10:13am
    - AitchW
      
      Why do these people who walk,talk, sing, and dance for a very good living feel the need to ‘endorse’ politicians?
      They put their pants on one leg at a time like the rest of us. Being wealthy because you can sing and dance does not make your opinion any more valuable than that of the guy who mows your lawn or the young woman who services your EV.
      I’m sure Lorde is a charming young lady, but I’m not going to alter my world view because she voices an opinion different to mine. Neither will Bono, Mick Jagger, Sam Neill, or Kate Beckinsale change my mind.
      Maybe I would be inclined to listen if they gave well thought out and rational reasons to support their cause célèbre. Then I might listen to them, but sound bites and cheer leading ain’t going to work.
      
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      November 17, 2024 2:21pm
  - kowtow
    
    Talking of pathetic displays , something I’ve not seen in any of the commentary , is that every single member of the Opposition in the House were on their feet during that Maori war dance , in defiance of the Speaker .
    
    What does that say about their respect for the House , its protocols and traditions .
    
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    November 17, 2024 10:33am
  - Yvette
    
    No, Maggy – both “memes” are demeaningly dopey and display nothing but diminutive minds
    
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    November 17, 2024 10:38am
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Luxon is attempting to be the inclusive, conciliatory leader smoothing over the troubled waters. But he is the guilty of simplification when he says we have reached where we are today through good debate and discussion. That is clearly not true. There has been ongoing creep by activist interests while the majority feel ignored and aggrieved. The final straw was the way the Labour Party carried out the rapid advancement of activist goals.
  
  We the people of NZ are looking for debate and discussion. A great place to start is with the concept of equality. Yes that is going to result in tantrums or worse from the activists. But so be it. The greater the entitlement created by successive governments, the greater the sense of loss that equality will bring. The sooner this loss is felt the better.
  
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  November 17, 2024 10:28am
  - kowtow
    
    PL
    
    You’re spot on with the observation about “creep”.
    
    There was never ( as far as I can tell) any controversy about dropping the Maori seats back in the ’80s with the Electoral RC and MMP.
    In the 90’s everyone was committed to ‘full and final” wirth an envisioned end date .
    
    This has gone out the window . The Nat race wing are fully behind Maorification of the constitution by stealth , with their very generous settlememnts ( two with perpetual tops ups) and literally embodying inanimate things like rivers and lakes etc
    
    The influential in the legal community are hell bent on introducing primitive , alien to long established legal practise Maori concepts into our law . This is being reinforced in the universities , where new lawyers are being initiated into same.
    
    And biggest of all was as you point out the Labourite attempt under Ardern to introduce co governance and any number of other anti democratic concepts at odds with the rule of law such as the race appointments onto local govt bodies .
    
    It is literally a coup by stealth against over 150 years of democracy in this country .
    
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    November 17, 2024 11:57am
- Notsofast
  
  “Any problems that have arisen with Treaty clauses are because this place has either failed to provide an adequate definition of what Treaty principles are or has mindlessly inserted them in legislation in an inappropriate way. This is an opportunity to tidy things up”.
  
  Not David Seymour in 2024, it was Chris Finlayson in 2006.
  
  Discussing the 2006 Treaty deletion bill
  
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  November 17, 2024 11:00am
  - Paulus
    
    Sadly our politically appointed Judges believe that they are the determiners of all law in New Zealand, above Parliament.
    Arrogant B…..s.
    
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    November 17, 2024 1:41pm
  - Unity
    
    Many have got it completely wrong as have previous Governments. The Treaty was signed in 1840 – a very simple document that brought us all together. We should be looking at what it said and meant in 1840 – not 2024 or even the 1970’s when changes were invented and put into law. Meanings change over time so it is imperative that we only look at the Treaty as it was in 1840. We can even progress 20 years further on where at the Kohimarama Conference in 1860 the Treaty was re-confirmed by the many Chiefs in attendance.
    
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    November 17, 2024 7:13pm
- pdm
  
  `Apparently, if someone says ‘See you next Tuesday’ then sniggers childishly, the appropriate response is ‘Tuesday, Wednesday And Thursday’
  
  I think you can safely add – if your lot bother to turn up in the Parliamentary Chamber!!!!
  
  They (the Maori Party) seem to miss as many sitting days as they attend.
  
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  November 17, 2024 11:02am
Chuck Bird

As we can no longer comment on Bassett, Brash and Hide, I thought I would post here and let Don know later.

DON BRASH: WHY I WOULD NOT HAVE VOTED FOR TRUMP

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/don-brash-why-i-would-not-have-voted-for-trump?
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November 17, 2024 8:08am
- wsk12345
  
  Im surprised that Don was sucked in by the MSM, I thought he was more astute than that. For example why did the republicans vote down the Dems border bill? Because it locked in the rights of millions more illegals to enter the US every year.
  
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  November 17, 2024 8:19am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Does anyone have a view on whether they would vote for Trump or Harris? I would vote for Trump. Thumps up for Trump and thumps down for Harris.
  
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  November 17, 2024 8:41am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    The Donald is showing you can make DEI hires without making DEI hires. It called picking the best qualified person for the job.
    
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    November 17, 2024 9:02am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Correct lastman,
      
      Trump uses slighty different meanings for DEI.
      
      Diversity means you have the courage to be an individual.
      
      Equity means you realise that you get paid for your worth and, if you want more, become more worthy.
      
      Inclusion means that if you fulfill the D and E requirements then you are included.
      
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      November 17, 2024 9:24am
    - CrazyIvan
      
      Best Qualified? Im yet to be convinced but hope to be proven wrong but I do have doubts about a director of intelligence who’s never worked in intelligence, and an attorney-general who’s never served as a prosecutor in any capacity with little direct experience as a lawyer. They might be appointed to do different things but directly relevant experience or qualifications is not one of them.
      
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      November 17, 2024 9:28am
      - Graeme Hall
        
        Merrick Garland could hardly be more qualified. He stood for the Supreme Court & yet he is a weak vindictive man who has tried to turn the US legal system into a tool for Democrat vengeance against political opponents.
        
        Better to appoint someone like Matt Gaetz who might face questions against him (there are no named sources yet), and has less experience than Garland, but has a backbone, is well educated at the top law schools, and is capable of conducting fearless cross examinations to expose corruption bias & weakness. He is a Trump loyalist and simply cannot be worse than the highly qualified incumbent.
        
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        November 17, 2024 10:57am
      - artemisia
        
        At those senior levels, a fast study, the mind of a strategist and a top rate team will get the job done.
        
        One of the probs of hiring senior folk without those attributes is that it is very easy to get mired in the weeds.
        
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        November 17, 2024 10:59am
      - NothingLeft
        
        go through Biden’s cabinet and consider how many of them had any real qualifications for the job, most were hired on basis of DEI (transexuals, cross dressers, prominent gay or black men) or time served as democrat politicians.
        
        CEOs and US cabinets are primarily in charge of overarching policy, fighting their corner and managing teams. The heavy lifting of technical detail is managed by senior advisers and the people they command.
        
        Gabbard seems fine, ethically and morally grounded (won’t that be a change). Though I suspect the Hawks would prefer a sociopath in the role.
        
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        November 17, 2024 6:41pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If I was American I would vote for Trump purely because of the corruption by the elite Democrats. I will not use names, you know who they are.
    
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    November 17, 2024 10:42am
- Philview
  
  Don is great on the intellectual debate on Maori sovereignty but he has a soft spot for China.
  
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  November 17, 2024 8:54am
- kowtow
  
  Don’s problem, when it comes to international geopolitics, is he sees everything through a Peking lens .
  
  The irony is Americans get to vote for Trump or Harris .
  
  What choice the masses of China .
  
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  November 17, 2024 9:09am
  - septic skeptic
    
    The last 3 elections the choice has been between Hillary, Trump, Biden and Harris. That’s a fine advert for democracy!
    
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    November 17, 2024 10:06am
    - kowtow
      
      The US ballots are an awful lot more than a binary choice between Presidential candidates .
      
      Oh and how’s democracy faring here with racists and so called centrists trying to overthrow the rule of law .
      
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      November 17, 2024 10:28am
- Gussy Fink-Nottle
  
  Brash calls Trump a racist (as do many) with no apparent justification (except that he suggested Obama wasn’t born in the US).
  
  Do we have any significant evidence of Trump’s alleged racism? Is he demonstrably more racists than, say, Biden?
  
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  November 17, 2024 10:04am
  - Don Beckett
    
    One simply has to look at the way he supports minority groups – Blacks, Hispanics etc., and how they supported him during the election puts lie to him being racist IMO>
    
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    November 17, 2024 10:54am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Brash calls Trump a racist (as do many) with no apparent justification (except that he suggested Obama wasn’t born in the US).
    
    And Brash does not see the irony that he, Brash, is called a racist because he, as do many of us, not accept the fake narrative that “Maori did not cede sovereignty, and were ruling partners.”
    
    When you call out someone else for being racist, when you yourself are “deemed a racist” under the same criteria, it signals a strong lack of objectivity.
    
    Anyone fawning over Harris or Biden needs help.
    
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    November 17, 2024 10:57am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Jackrabbit.
      Very good point.
      It seems that criticising the actions or words of someone who happens to not be a Caucasian is racism.
      That’s a disservice to people who suffer real racism.
      
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      November 17, 2024 12:29pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        It is not about skin colour for Brash though. It is about media indoctrination, and the lack of awareness to see that Biden was wrecking the USA, aided and abetted by Harris.
        
        I’d rather have Mr Bean and a herd of wild elephants run the USA in preference to Harris. Harris a shapeshifter with no policies. Her ethnicity and speech (Black/Indian/Asian), and stances on fracking, immigration, etc change according to who she is speaking to.
        
        That Brash cannot see she is a glove puppet is concerning.
        
        And now that Trump has won, Biden is acting normally?
        
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        November 17, 2024 2:48pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Trump doesn’t seem to be very good at being a racist, given his history of employing and promoting so many non-Aryans as well as all his quiet personal charitable work for non-whites.
    
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    November 17, 2024 6:45pm
- Flossie
  
  Do you know why there are no longer comments on the site?
  
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  November 17, 2024 10:56am
  - JackRabbit
    
    The Administrator disabled comments because:
    
    – Difficulties logging in.
    
    – Difficulties commenting with out going through a convoluted log out / log in process. To comment sometimes you could only initiate a comment or reply to a comment (no comment or reply links) by NOT being logged in, and then logging in when trying to post.
    
    – The often observed disappearing comment likes. Likes might be 21 on a comment and then drop to 2.
    
    – Other random stuff, including some non random stuff that indicates the site has been or is hacked.
    
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    November 17, 2024 11:04am
Souvlaki

An astute column in Herald this am by HDPA…paywalled , but in essence accurately pointing out how both Labour and National have seriously misread public sentiment on both the Treaty Bill and Maori Party inspired political event …the Hikoi.
Hard to believe all Nats ACTUALLY believe Seymours bill is out of line….we know they like being “whipped”….but this is becoming ludicrous….are they all incapable of individual thought???😳🧐
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November 17, 2024 8:08am
- David Garrett
  
  Souv: As I am sure you know, MP’s from the major parties are not allowed individual thought. In fact I suspect only ACT members are entitled to vote other than the party line provided proper notice is first given, and the Bill in question is not a money matter
  
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  November 17, 2024 8:13am
  - Souvlaki
    
    Yes….depressing…why go to Parliament and be confined to the cerebral limitations of sheep!?? 🐑
    
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    November 17, 2024 8:21am
    - David Garrett
      
      Souv: Yes indeed…I could never have stood for the Nats. Even their maiden speeches follow a template, first sycophantically thanking everyone in the party “who helped get me here today”
      
      Then there might be a sentence or two of blandishments regarding what they hope to do – but nothing too specific so it can’t be held against them later
      
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      November 17, 2024 8:27am
    - Quail
      
      Absolutely correct.
      MMP gives the bureaucratic parties all the power, right down to selecting and appointing the politicians.
      Individuals , ideas and the voting for them don’t count.
      The NZ swamp is a very very deep soft bog !
      
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      November 17, 2024 11:22am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Of course some National MPs will agree with Seymour. However crossing the floor could see them expelled from caucus and perhaps Parliament. Not going to happen.
    
    If, say, 10 National MPs rebelled, that would be more difficult to deal with as expelling them would bring down the government.
    
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    November 17, 2024 8:24am
    - David Garrett
      
      Bene: At a guess I’d say more than 10 Nats would support Seymour if they were allowed to. As you say, if 10 or more crossed the floor Luxon would have to sit up and take notice. And it’s worth noting that in Britain government members often vote with the opposition.
      
      Of course that’s a much bigger legislature so five or ten rebels aren’t of any great consequence.
      
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      November 17, 2024 8:32am
      - igm
        
        I was jested on this blog not too long ago for statingt Luxon is not good for National and also bad for democracy . . . he is unfit for purpose, as are those in Parliament, sharing and supporting his woke views.
        
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        November 17, 2024 8:50am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @igm
        
        Those words are true. But as a comparison, who would you suggest in National replaces him?
        
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        November 17, 2024 2:25pm
    - cmm
      
      What could happen is a putsch to replace Luxon.
      It isn’t clear though that there is a rebel faction or a strong contender as a replacement leader.
      
      But if Luxon doesn’t square his shoulders soon, he will lose the confidence of the people.
      
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      November 17, 2024 8:33am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        He’s not exactly on my Christmas card list.
        
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        November 17, 2024 8:42am
      - David Garrett
        
        Cmm: Whaddya mean “he will lose the confidence of the people?” IMO he’s already lost it.
        
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        November 17, 2024 9:20am
      - Ghost
        
        Has he David? Latest Curia poll has national up 3.9%, act down, and only 16% think treaty issues are a main issue.
        
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        November 17, 2024 9:27am
      - BananaLlama
        
        Ghost.
        I think you will find it is increasingly becoming an issue thanks to the Maori party and international media trying to pressure the public.
        
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        November 17, 2024 9:54am
      - kowtow
        
        Ghost
        
        Luxon , compared to other PMs at this stage in office is languishing ( and hasn’t been wildly popular at the best of times)
        
        Any thoughts .
        
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        November 17, 2024 10:35am
      - The Feed
        
        Let’s face it, winning because you’re “not Labour” is hardly inspiring.
        
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        November 17, 2024 11:44am
      - Ghost
        
        There’s no pressure from the international media, the story was reported it’s over. We now return you to the world reporting on trump.
        
        Kowtow. I think he will never rate high, he’s not a politician, doesn’t have the grace of a politician, or the ability to be a Chameleon. What you see and get is a businessman who sees government as a business. Sets aside each quarter the work to be done, and does it, you have a businessman with minimal political persona. He can do the job, and do it well, but lacks the ability to inspire the voter. On top of that you have the Ardern factor, what trust people had in politicians and politics is gone because of her. The country has Post-Ardern stress disorder.
        
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        November 17, 2024 12:04pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @kowtow
        
        Compared to what PMs? (In recent times)
        Ardern?
        Hipkins?
        English?
        
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        November 17, 2024 2:28pm
      - Unity
        
        From what I’m hearing Luxon has already lost the confidence of many people who vote National. They are going to be a one term Government if they don’t change direction on Treaty issues.
        
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        November 17, 2024 7:18pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    When has any Act mp voted differently from the party. Can you give just one instance ?
    
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    November 17, 2024 9:47am
    - David Garrett
      
      G: Happy to…I did, twice (can’t remember one of the issues now) and John Boscawen joined me in voting against the rest of our caucus on the Wanganui gang patch Bill (John and I were in favour of it)
      
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      November 17, 2024 10:42am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        You did? And how did that work out?
        
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        November 17, 2024 9:29pm
- kevn
  
  Souvlaki… Still bubbling away internationally…
  https://x.com/HicksKiwi/status/1857663964446077076
  
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  November 17, 2024 8:28am
  - Jethrod
    
    Who the hell is Paul Hicks? I just watched his lips move for 30 seconds and knew he would have an alternate view!!!
    
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    November 17, 2024 9:03am
    - geoff3012
      
      Matt Walsh…….even a yank gets it
      
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      November 17, 2024 10:48am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Matt Walsh is a smart guy.
        
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        November 17, 2024 12:11pm
  - Souvlaki
    
    Yes…I’ve disseminated it widely…NZ is a laughing stock to anyone with connected cerebral synapses!🤣 🧠
    
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    November 17, 2024 9:10am
    - Don Beckett
      
      I thought he was very good – explained the situation factually & demonstrated how many countries see us as weak & divided – which we are.
      
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      November 17, 2024 10:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If National MPs do express their individual thoughts they will likely have their Warrants withdrawn imo.
  
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  November 17, 2024 8:42am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Warrants are the Document used to appoint Ministers and are issued by the GG.
    
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    November 17, 2024 9:18am
  - David Garrett
    
    Steve O: a technical point, but only ministers have warrants…rebellious MP’s ” have the Whip withdrawn” meaning they are excluded from caucus
    
    13 0
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    November 17, 2024 9:23am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yeah, but you know what I mean.
      Tow the line or you sit at the back.
      
      8 3
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      November 17, 2024 10:46am
  - MCōs
    
    There’s a huge difference between the two
    A member of the cabinet cannot express opinions against decisions made by the cabinet whereas a member of the wider caucus can. The former could lose their warrant, but it’s not small thing to be biffed out of caucus and is usually the result of misbehaviour
    
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    November 17, 2024 3:21pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Without Peter’s vote it would be voted down anyway, so sick of it being Luxon fault and silence about Peters
  
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  November 17, 2024 9:45am
- PurplePen
  
  Of course each MP is allowed individual thoughts, but a party isn’t a party unless it speaks with one voice. If an MP feels strongly enough about an issue they can and will speak up in parliament and even cross the floor when voting. But if you want every MP to be encouraged more to do this then you might end up with an Iraqi parliament which has more than 30 parties or worse still a local authority council full of individual voices all getting nowhere … such as Wellington.
  
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  November 17, 2024 11:13am
Bridgenag

Weekly Round-up: DEI, Covid-19 Crimes, Gaetz, Kamala, and More…

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/weekly-round-up-dei-covid-19-crimes?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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November 17, 2024 8:16am
Bridgenag

Will they ban Alternative für Deutschland?

“On Wednesday, 113 members of the Bundestag finally submitted their motion to initiate ban proceedings against Alternative für Deutschland, the second-strongest political party in Germany.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/eugyppius/p/will-they-ban-alternative-fur-deutschland?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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November 17, 2024 8:20am
- NothingLeft
  
  Banning opposition is the double-plus good way to do democracy.
  
  Worldwide the left are clearly set on ending free-speech, removing core pillars of democracy, and walking us down the path to despotic autocracy. Are they evil or just thick/ignorant of history?
  
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  November 17, 2024 6:50pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Police data breach.
We were told… the gun register would be safe and secure.
Imagine if a gang got this information.

https://centrist.nz/police-data-breach-exposes-private-gun-owner-information/?

https://goodoil.news/and-they-said-the-gun-register-would-be-safe/

If the X post is taken down the Police will do their enquiry in the dark and the public will be none the wiser of this breach.
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November 17, 2024 8:21am
- cmm
  
  It is always just best to assume that all data you have given the government has been put in nefarious hands.
  
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  November 17, 2024 8:29am
- rouppe
  
  Except the database wasn’t breached.
  
  Some plonker extracted information from the register and emailed it.
  
  You can’t code around stupid.
  
  11 2
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  November 17, 2024 9:20am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “I was contacted by a Superintendent based at Police National HQ about this, he has also emailed me to say a full investigation is now underway looking into how his breach occurred.”
    From Cam Slater.
    
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    November 17, 2024 10:54am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Except the database wasn’t breached. Some plonker extracted information from the register and emailed it.
    
    Rouppe, that IS a quintessential example of a data breach. 65-85% of all data breaches are internal.
    
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    November 17, 2024 11:13am
cmm

Some advice sought:

I am still getting the run around from both the Privacy commissioner and IRD on their data breach.

Should I approach the Minister, or should I just assume I will get a run around there too and go for an OIA request?
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November 17, 2024 8:28am
- AitchW
  
  Cmm, if your local mp is any good start there.
  A few years ago we had IRD problems and our local MP took our case to the revenue minister who fixed it in a few days.
  
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  November 17, 2024 8:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  OIA usually rattles a few cages. No guarantee they will comply though.
  
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  November 17, 2024 8:51am
  - JackRabbit
    
    I thought it was an OIA in the first place that revealed the Data Breach i.e. that the IRD was giving taxpayer personal information and tax data to Facebook (Meta) for targeted advertising.
    
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    November 17, 2024 11:17am
- PurplePen
  
  Do both, OIA and minister. I did this in relation to an issue and within a few weeks I received a phone call from the labour inspectorate wanting to assist. Local MP as someone has suggested is a good idea too. Just list the facts and a logical rationale. Can’t argue with that. And keep emotions out of it.
  
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  November 17, 2024 11:17am
- Ghost
  
  Email S.Watts@ministers.govt.nz as minister of revenue. And Paul.Goldsmith@parliament.govt.nz
  as Minister responsible for privacy commission. include your local mp and the labour shadow ministers. duncan.webb@parliament.govt.nz. deborah.russell@parliament.govt.nz
  
  Don’t bcc, make sure each can see you’ve sent it to all
  
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  November 17, 2024 12:22pm
Keep on

Brilliant https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl1iZbqlN7c&t=775s&pp=ygUKbWF0dCB3YWxzaA%3D%3D

[Mod – please include descriptions with links]
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November 17, 2024 8:49am
- Keep on
  
  Sorry, this is Matt Walsh’s take on the parliament haka disgrace.
  
  [Mod – thanks]
  
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  November 17, 2024 9:43am
- PurplePen
  
  Yes I watched that. Long but he’d done his research. Best part is a clip he plays where someone has set the haka done in parliament to a honky tonk piano piece.
  
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  November 17, 2024 11:19am
Bridgenag

The Effectiveness of Lockdowns, Face Masks and Vaccination Programmes Vis-à-Vis Mitigating COVID-19
Or not! A comprehensive review by Martin Sewell, Cambridge

“A seasonal influenza-like illness became a pandemic of governmental overreach and collective hysteria. Lockdowns turned out to be the greatest health economics mistake in modern history, face masks served no useful purpose in the community, in schools or in healthcare, whilst vaccinations were effective against severe COVID-19 in the elderly in 2021, but ultimately likely did more harm than good.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/metatron/p/the-effectiveness-of-lockdowns-face?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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November 17, 2024 8:54am
- Benedict Yu
  
  How on earth could the vaccines “have done more harm than good”?
  
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  November 17, 2024 9:14am
  - Michael Johnston
    
    Because they had an unusually high rate of sometimes very nasty side effects. For some, especially the young and healthy, those side effects greatly outweighed the benefit of limited protection from covid. Young men in particular had a much higher rate of myocarditis from the vaccine than they did of having serious effects from covid itself. Had the vaccine been targeted only at the elderly and those othwrwise at serious risk from the disease, that equation might have been different.
    
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    November 17, 2024 10:36am
    - Sacha
      
      Most deaths among the elderly occurred because they were old, and had 2-3 co-morbidities. They would likely have died from a regular non-pandemic ‘flu, as old people do.
      It is the appalling injury toll amongst the vaccinated who would normally shake off a heavy viral ‘cold’ that is so tragic.
      And we don’t know what the future holds for those who were boosted –
      
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      November 17, 2024 11:30am
      - JackRabbit
        
        And we don’t know what the future holds for those who were boosted…
        
        The excess death rate in NZ for 20 to 49 year olds is sitting at approx 25%, compared with pre 2020. And this excess death rate was static during Covid and started rising after the vaccine rollout and has continued.
        
        Heart issues, turbo cancers, blood clots, failing immune systems… the list is extensive.
        
        And not just from the boosters. From the original shots, and now in unvaccinated from shedding by the vaccinated.
        
        Anyone who is curious should buy the recorded live stream from the NZDSOS Auckland event.
        
        9 1
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        November 17, 2024 2:38pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Jackrabbit
        
        “And not just from the boosters. From the original shots, and now in unvaccinated from shedding by the vaccinated.”
        
        What is shedding? Is it infection from transfer of bodily fluids?
        
        4 1
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        November 17, 2024 4:40pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @imalwaysright
        
        If you want an understanding of shedding and what the mRNA ‘NOT a vaccine’ is doing, it is well worth the $45 to buy the full day life stream recording of the Auckland NZDSOS conference a few weeks ago.
        
        The vaccine not only damages the immune system, but contain things that allows the pathogens to pass from one person to another without physical contact, in the same way we know any virus can. And specifically of course Covid-19.
        
        The real pandemic is being manufactured inside the human body by the mRNA induced pathogen / spike protein, and as a viral pathogen can be transferred by shedding.
        
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        November 17, 2024 11:36pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    How on earth could the vaccines “have done more harm than good”?
    
    Because it was in their genetic design to do so.
    
    Evil never sleeps.
    
    9 3
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    November 17, 2024 11:18am
    - kevn
      
      JackR… Anyone remember this period in time and who succumbed?
      https://vigilantfox.news/p/how-contact-tracing-apps-sold-out
      
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      November 17, 2024 1:07pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Kevn… Yep.
        
        Everything to do with Covid was a lie. Including the tracing apps.
        
        3 1
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        November 17, 2024 2:53pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        The “pandemic” was propagandised so effectively that they didn’t actually need a virus.
        I would speculate that it was just a normal flu season. The problems started appearing after the jab, not before.
        
        2 1
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        November 17, 2024 4:43pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    How on earth could the vaccines “have done more harm than good”?
    
    Not “Have Done” but are Doing more harm than good.
    Not over by a country mile.
    Latest Data from Our World in Data are showing an average increase 10% ish in the last 3 years in death rates in the Western World.
    
    Bring on RFK and the Truth.
    
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    November 17, 2024 1:36pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      You are right. Not over by a country mile.
      
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      November 17, 2024 2:54pm
      - MCōs
        
        So what is it “10%ish” or “a country mile”?
        
        2 5
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        November 17, 2024 3:41pm
thetiedarch

Weird how the Treaty Hikoi got all sorts of lovely, positive attention even as it shut down the harbour bridge and irritated the millions of Aucklanders.

But Brian Tamaki’s flag march gets barely anything, and today it’s an article about how the police are upset about it and considering pressing charges.
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November 17, 2024 8:54am
- Ghost
  
  The harbour bridge wasn’t shut down. One nippon clippon was.
  
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  November 17, 2024 9:25am
- MCōs
  
  Tamaki just wandered off onto the road with his few hundred mob without police approval. Even the gangs make arrangements with the police.
  
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  November 17, 2024 3:49pm
  - Ghost
    
    Strangely the hikoi closed one nippon clippon and people here were outraged, not so when Brian shuts the motorway down. Silence from the hypocrites who only support people protesting when they agree with it
    
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    November 17, 2024 4:51pm
Yvette

Treaty Principles Bill: Seymour’s allegations around students taking part in hīkoi ‘inflammatory’
… A statement from the ACT Party last week encouraged parents to write to their school boards to remind them of their obligations for neutrality under the public service’s integrity and conduct standards.
https://www.publicservice.govt.nz/guidance/guidance-understanding-the-code-of-conduct/impartial

So, check it out

A guide for public servants on matters of integrity and conduct
Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā tātou katoa, welcome to He Aratohu. He Aratohu puts the expectations for integrity and conduct in the Public Service, into one easily accessible resource.
He Aratohu is a composite of two words ara and tohu. Ara is a route, path or course. Tohu are symbols, signs, distinguishing features or directions. An aratohu is a pathway that has been scouted and the distinguishing features marked to make the journey of the traveller safer. He Aratohu identifies important resources that help the Public Service navigate issues of conduct and integrity.
The resources available include the expectations set by Te Tumu Whakarae mō Te Kawa Mataaho, Public Service Commissioner through the Code of Conduct (including the separate Codes of Conduct for ministerial staff and Crown entity board members and Directors of Public Finance Act 1989 Schedule 4A companies), model standards and guidance either issued by Te Kawa Mataaho or endorsed guidance provided by another organisation.

That hasn’t started that well, however –

We must carry out the functions of our organisation, unaffected by our personal beliefs

… We are never justified in ignoring the operating procedures of our organisation and interpreting government policy or exercising our decision-making responsibilities in a way that suits our personal beliefs.

When expressing our personal beliefs in any public debate, and particularly if relating to matters of government policy or activities of our organisation, we should ensure comments we make are appropriate to the position we hold, and are compatible with the need to maintain the convention of party political neutrality. If we occupy a managerial position or work closely with Ministers, we need to exercise particular care.
https://www.publicservice.govt.nz/guidance/guidance-understanding-the-code-of-conduct/impartial
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November 17, 2024 9:04am
Damocles11

Chris Finlayson, Jenny Shipley, Louise Upston are typical of the blue blood, born to rule mentality that some in the National party possess. Moreover they represent the establishment appeasers, and having appeased for decades they are now ‘all in’ on appeasement. And now here comes David Seymour, an independent thinker and an utterly honest man – the two traits that make him incomprehensible to the establishment who are all about crushing conformity and deep cynicism. You can see the desperation of the establishment in the vicious words they use to attack the ‘equal rights and democracy’ bill that has widespread popular support.
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November 17, 2024 9:10am
- Souvlaki
  
  Yes ++++ Damocles !
  This is Sunday….I dear say a number of those within the ranks of National politicians ‘consider’ themselves to be Christian….Luxon we know certainly does ! How many are polishing their haloes in church as I type ??
  Well, I’ve got news for them…. the whole lot are “PLASTIC CHRISTIANS’…reflect on it you sods. You are hypocrites!
  I am in no way religious…but know that a true Christian believes we’ re all equal before God. How do you thus reconcile this with your cowardice in failing to formally recognise we should be “equal before the law” as Seymour proposes ?
  
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  November 17, 2024 10:07am
- PurplePen
  
  I haven’t yet heard any logical argument from protesters, their supporters nor MPs against the Treaty Principles Bill. There may very well be one. If so, let’s hear it.
  
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  November 17, 2024 11:23am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Entire Entrenched Government Bureaucracy To Be Dismantled.
This rocket guy and Indian are going to ruin everything.

https://babylonbee.com/news/entire-entrenched-government-bureaucracy-to-be-dismantled-by-indian-guy-and-autistic-african-american-obsessed-with-rockets?
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November 17, 2024 9:13am
- NothingLeft
  
  Ramaswamy was born in USA. Not Indian.
  
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  November 17, 2024 6:55pm
Damocles11

The All Blacks haka gets more ridiculous by the day, but I noted the words ‘Pakeha’ ‘Whenua’ and ‘Aotearoa’ in the preamble, also sounded like ‘Kāwanatanga’ in the one they performed just now. I do nope these fools are not making a political statement.
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November 17, 2024 9:14am
- Anthony Melchett
  
  A call for violence by a bunch of overpaid thugs who support domestic violence.
  
  But if you don’t like the haka you are racist
  
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  November 17, 2024 9:37am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  For a start they are not fools, did you not think they did a completely different haka to avoid Ka Mate after this weeks bullshittery
  
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  November 17, 2024 9:53am
  - Paulus
    
    All Hakas are premediated to being acts of Physical Violence.
    Just watch one, if you can, and tell me otherwise.
    Didn’t work in Paris earlier as the Frenchies won again despite The All Blacks call to violence.
    
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    November 17, 2024 1:50pm
- PurplePen
  
  When the All Blacks do it there’s a certain amount of respect they’re given, but that’s only because they remain a good competitor. Compare that to when the NZ basketball team do it. The opposing team looks on in disbelief and then thrashes them.
  
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  November 17, 2024 11:26am
- pdm
  
  I have been an avid All Black supporter since age 10 (1956 Springbok tour) but, I haven’t bothered watching the Haka for the last 4/5 years.
  
  It means nothing in terms of the game that follows.
  
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  November 17, 2024 11:27am
  - lifesgood
    
    In fact I think they waste too much energy in trying to show how tough they are. Leave it to the game, boys, you look pathetic and primitive doing the haka and it must really rark your opponents up to beat you.
    
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    November 17, 2024 11:55am
    - Paulus
      
      How many Maori were in the All Blacks Team in Paris ?
      More Pacificas though.
      
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      November 17, 2024 1:51pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    I usually miss the kickoff in order to avoid the haka.
    
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    November 17, 2024 12:11pm
  - Jethrod
    
    Correct!
    
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    November 17, 2024 12:28pm
- Aquarius
  
  Well
  At least they always win the tongue poking competition
  Total rubbish really
  
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  November 17, 2024 8:52pm
G152

When will Jerry get a pair and remove dance and culture groups from the house ??? And media actually deal with reporting news????
34 2
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November 17, 2024 9:17am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  We shall see on Tuesday, I thi k there will be a huge warning, I think several people who left their seat and went to the floor will be before the committee. And hijinks from TPM will see MPs automatically removed from house, not sure what more he can do, remembering that TPM are elected MPs
  
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  November 17, 2024 9:56am
  - kowtow
    
    He can start by making them dress properly .
    
    Show some respect for the highest court in the land.
    
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    November 17, 2024 10:41am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Aren’t there sprinklers also Inside parliament…?
      
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      November 17, 2024 12:44pm
      - peterwn
        
        An ordinary fire sprinkler cannot just be turned on (there are special exceptions such as deluge systems in tunnels or airport hangers). Each individual sprinkler is activated when the temperature of the air near the sprinkler head exceeds the design temperature of the head. In most cases if there is a fire only a few heads will be activated since that would be sufficient to extinguish or at least control most fires.
        
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        November 17, 2024 6:58pm
  - Paulus
    
    What to watch is those who join the Hikoi for the purpose of just destruction of anything that can be blamed on the Maori participants.
    
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    November 17, 2024 1:52pm
- Damocles11
  
  What about referring to another political as being “like the KKK with a swipe card to the Beehive”? Gerry didn’t even budge on that one. The appeaser establishment don’t know what to do, total ‘deer in the headlights’ stuff. They let TPM get away with so much in Parliament, and that has only emboldened them further. Appeasement never works.
  
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  November 17, 2024 12:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump Worried Everyone Will Quit Before He Can Tell Them ‘You’re Fired’
Can’t drain the swamp if the swamp drains itself!

https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-worried-everyone-will-quit-before-he-can-tell-them-youre-fired?
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November 17, 2024 9:22am
- JackRabbit
  
  Those quitting are only the turds floating on the surface of the swamp, and that have some form of conscience.
  
  The ones to worry about are those on the very bottom, who have no conscience, and who control the swamp.
  
  And who are well practiced at pointing the finger at the floating turds as being the evil ones.
  
  Thus fooling Trump into thinking he has drained the swamp, so turns off the drainage pumps prematurely.
  
  It is a similar situation to when rumours of fraud start circulating in an organisation. Those who spent the office lunch money on croissants instead of cheese sandwiches, (and sneaked a few home), and the odd bottle of unauthourised wine; those who spend petty cash on an unauthourised rubber tree plant for the office (and one for home), can’t sleep at night, panic, and resign.
  
  Those that are siphoning millions out of company accounts through fake invoices to fake Caymen Island shell companies, have no conscience, and sleep well at night.
  
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  November 17, 2024 11:31am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Trump won’t turn off the drainage pumps.
    He has been here before and didn’t know how yuge the swamp was. This time he is ready. Look at all of the possible appointments. The RINOs are being left in the dust this time.
    Then there are the future prosecutions of the Dems and the media.
    Gonna be a good four years – then J D Vance takes over for eight years!!!
    Dreaming? Who knows?
    
    4 2
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    November 17, 2024 5:37pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      One RINO has flown under the radar – John Thune, leader of the senate. I think Trump has made an error there.
      
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      November 17, 2024 6:10pm
imalwaysright

Watched Claire Achmad, Childrens Commissioner,having a wee chat with John Campbell on tv1.
Apparently kiwi kids are being abused, tortured, and murdered because of “inequity”.
She smiled, through the entire chat, that smile that sends shivers through most of us who still suffer from Adern flashbacks. Combine that with the word salad of bastardised pronunciation and it becomes evident that we have another trougher.
Her summation, done with a smile of such magnitude that many of her words became merely a series of exhalations, was that we should, wait for it…. listen to the children!

Marvelous
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November 17, 2024 9:48am
- kowtow
  
  The Establishment seeks literally to infantilise us .
  
  I think it reached its peak under Ardern .
  
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  November 17, 2024 10:42am
  - pdm
    
    `I think it reached its peak under Ardern .’
    
    Aided and abetted by the Despicable Mallard.
    
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    November 17, 2024 11:29am
Swifty

Wish me luck, dear friends, for this week I enter the belly of the beast.

Yes, that’s right, this week I begin at Wellington City Council looking after a few things for them over the next few months.

If you don’t hear from me from now on you’ll know I have been consumed by the gaping maw and things have not gone well.

Keep fighting the good fight.

Farewell.
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November 17, 2024 10:07am
- artemisia
  
  We Wellington ratepayers trust you to fight the good fight too, Swifty, though completely understand staying under the radar for the time being.
  
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  November 17, 2024 10:53am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I will miss you…
  
  and if you do not possess a cloak of right-thinking, you might become infested with greenery.
  
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  November 17, 2024 2:02pm
- Ghost
  
  Have you booked into an alcohol treatment program for when you’ve finished there?
  
  7 1
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  November 17, 2024 2:13pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Invest in a massive bone carving for round you neck, make every second word “mahi”, and tell them you prefer to be called Tere. ( maori for Swift)
  You’ll be kapai…
  
  5 1
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  November 17, 2024 4:55pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Make that carving a pounamu one. 🙂
    
    3 1
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    November 17, 2024 6:12pm
Bridgenag

Might have to explain that it is sarcasm Steve
3 2
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November 17, 2024 10:11am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  There is a thing called a ‘URL.’
  
  2 5
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  November 17, 2024 11:20am
Damocles11

The ‘Te Ao Maori world’ in context:

Notre Dame – founded in 1163, consecrated in 1182
Mont Saint-Michel – original abbey founded in 966
Lourve – founded in 1190
Pont du Gard – construction completed in 60 AD
Sorbonne – established in 1257
University of Paris – founded in 1150

Maori settlement of NZ – 1300-1350
24 2
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November 17, 2024 10:14am
- kevn
  
  Damo… You missed ‘the wheel’.
  
  17 1
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  November 17, 2024 11:28am
  - imalwaysright
    
    And the axle.
    
    13 1
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    November 17, 2024 12:00pm
    - mandk
      
      and ceramics, and metallurgy, and literacy.
      
      11 1
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      November 17, 2024 1:57pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        And the guitar.
        
        2 0
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        November 17, 2024 6:13pm
- JackRabbit
  
  You missed:
  
  – First adze used up near where Coburg Street now is, to chop down a tree – 30,000 – 60,000 BC.
  – Discovery of this adze under the volcanic layer in Albert St by Auckland Council staff doing excavations – 1874
  – Ocean going sailing ship arrives in the far north – 5000BC
  – Colonists create map on the wall of a cave in South Canterbury – 1000BC
  – Arrival of Waitaha in NZ – 0AD
  – Arrival of Cook Islanders in NZ – 500AD
  
  And many others…..
  
  5 9
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  November 17, 2024 11:45am
  - Mike
    
    Cool story.
    
    6 10
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    November 17, 2024 12:41pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Cool facts.
      
      6 2
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      November 17, 2024 2:20pm
      - Mike
        
        None of your fantasy list is a fact.
        
        4 10
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        November 17, 2024 2:43pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Mike
        
        They are facts and easy enough to find. But you don’t want to find them, do you? It is not what you are being paid for. You are being paid to deny it all.
        
        The adze history, can be found in one Google search, searching with one hand, drinking coffee with the other. It takes 3 seconds.
        
        6 2
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        November 17, 2024 3:25pm
      - Mike
        
        The adze, where is it now? At best, it was an out-of-place artifact, with no supporting context, placing it in the same category as the Spanish Helmet, the Tamil Bell or the Korotangi. At worst, a deliberate hoax.
        There is no evidence of human habitation in New Zealand before the arrival of the Māori in the 14th century.
        
        2 3
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        November 17, 2024 5:59pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    JR,
    
    Apparently there is still a lot of NZ archaeological evidence that has been suppressed or embargoed.
    Wonder why…
    
    7 2
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    November 17, 2024 2:38pm
    - Mike
      
      Not true.
      
      3 12
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      November 17, 2024 2:43pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Here’s an example of embargoed archaeology. It refers to evidence found in Waipoua forest that has been restricted until 2063.
        https://www.celticnz.co.nz/embargo_saga.html
        
        5 2
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        November 17, 2024 3:42pm
      - Mike
        
        Pure bullshit.
        Here’s a refutation of many of these fanciful claims:
        https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/07-01-2018/summer-reissue-the-white-tangata-whenua-and-other-bullshit-from-the-one-new-zealand-crew?utm_source=spinoff-share-button&utm_medium=spinoff-web-mobile
        
        3 6
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        November 17, 2024 4:22pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      The facts I have mentioned above are not yet embargoed.
      
      I should also add to those dates:
      Removal from public libraries, school libraries, and national archives, all books containing stories, information, and references to the Moriori and those that came before them: 1960-1980.
      
      Removal of public access to the books and scans of books from the 1800’s, many if which contained Maori oral history, which confirm existence of races here before Maori.(enzb.auckland.ac.nz) ~ Oct 2023
      
      Removal of public access to the books and scans of books from the 1800’s, a substantial number of which contained Maori oral history, which confirm existence of races here before Maori. (tps.auckland.ac.nz) ~ Oct 2023
      
      7 3
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      November 17, 2024 3:08pm
- crikey
  
  Damocles: “ Maori settlement of NZ – 1300-1350”
  
  Not quite correct. Maori didn’t actually settle NZ, they merely subsisted.
  
  7 3
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  November 17, 2024 1:18pm
  - Mike
    
    Depending on your definition, it’s possible that New Zealand has not been settled even today.
    
    4 9
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    November 17, 2024 1:59pm
- Paulus
  
  Notre Dame de Paris to be reopened on 8th December, after the fire, I believe.
  Wonderful good news.
  
  6 0
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  November 17, 2024 1:55pm
  - MCōs
    
    Bit of a contrast to the cathedral in Chch that has been a shattered ruins for fourteen years with no prospect of ever being reopened
    If Gerry Brownlee had had his way the whole of downtown Chch would have flattened whatever the historical significance.
    An example of how dunderheaded central government can fuck over local communities.
    
    3 4
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    November 17, 2024 4:36pm
Bridgenag

From Sky .au

Myer has been forced to cancel the annual unveiling of its Christmas window display in Melbourne’s Bourke Street mall.

A planned protest from pro-Palestine advocates has required the retail store to scrap the tradition for this year’s festivities.
21 2
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November 17, 2024 10:15am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Concealed carry. This will make the Democrat’s heads explode.
Driving is a privilege, carrying a firearm is a Constitutional Right.

https://conservativeadvocacy.com/trump-announces-plan-for-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity/?
5 3
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November 17, 2024 11:54am
Hugh Jarse

Commentators keep saying Luxon has a problem with the Bill. He may do, but I think Labour have a bigger problem with it, their support for TPM and the carkoi counts TPM in as a coalition party with Labour in the next election. Without a huge turnaround which is unlikely, Labour cannot get into government so they need the Greens and TPM. They also intend going into the next election on a platform of more taxation because they didn’t waste enough last time. These two elements are going to be a huge turnoff to the electorate to say nothing of the reemergence of He Pua Pua.
15 1
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November 17, 2024 12:05pm
Taieri

A new oil/gas field has been discovered in the Norwegian sector of the North Sea. It’s estimated to contain between 13 and 28 million barrels of oil.
Wonder what our former Beloved Great Leader would have to say about that?
16 1
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November 17, 2024 12:23pm
- zulumonster
  
  Greta is going to blow a fufu valve!
  
  10 2
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  November 17, 2024 12:52pm
- Quail
  
  Oh goody goody ,NZ will be able to buy more oil!
  Oops— what with?
  Carbon credits and landscapes?
  
  9 1
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  November 17, 2024 1:14pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  The world consumes 100 million barrels of oil per DAY. So 28 million is enough to provide the needs of the world for about seven hours.
  
  Are you sure that those were the numbers?
  
  12 0
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  November 17, 2024 1:33pm
  - Taieri
    
    It’s a new discovery near existing Fram field.
    
    6 0
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    November 17, 2024 3:42pm
  - MCōs
    
    More than half is gas
    In terms of Norway’s annual consumption of 73mil barrels annually it’s certainly significant
    
    3 1
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    November 17, 2024 4:50pm
- JackRabbit
  
  One spot on the Otago coast is estimated to hold 3.6 billion barrels of oil and gas. That is enough for to provide NZ all its oil consumption for 430 years. And that is one spot!
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/markets/commodities/nz-oil-exploration-hinges-on-great-south-basin/CJ7SVG4QLRAQ6TLCDHFTQGLZOE/
  
  Wonder what our former Beloved Great Leader would have to say about that?
  
  She would say “Ban it”
  
  11 2
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  November 17, 2024 3:17pm
  - AitchW
    
    Or she’d ‘refude’ the premise of your assertion.
    
    7 1
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    November 17, 2024 3:38pm
  - Taieri
    
    The potential of the Great South Basin has never been quantified with any degree of accuracy. I was involved in a several seismic surveys there in the early 2000’s and the results were pretty much inconclusive. The oil is there, but how much of it? Nobody really knows. And the predominant weather conditions are not exploration friendly.
    
    12 0
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    November 17, 2024 3:46pm
    - Jack5
      
      There was much hype about Great South Basin oil back in the day – half a year or so ago.
      
      So much that a Mayor of Invercargill flew to Aberdeen to see how that Scots city was handling its new business from offshore rigs.
      
      5 0
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      November 17, 2024 5:40pm
      - Jack5
        
        Edit: … half a ~~year~~ century or so ago.
        
        The country, well at least the far south of the country, was in a fever about the Great South Basin.
        
        On 12 March,1980, morning newspapers in New Zealand printed a Press Association report from Wellington saying the Great South Basin could have the potential of up to 200 million barrels of oil.
        
        This was from an article in the international trade magazine Oil Gas Journal by Robert Sanford of the Hunt International Petroleum Company, of the United States.
        
        The amount he suggested would in those days have put NZ oil reserves on a foot with Venezuela and Nigeria.
        
        Sanford wrote that of seven wildcat well drilled in the basin, three had shows of oil and gas.
        
        2 0
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        November 17, 2024 7:10pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    NZ uses 170k barrels a day of oil, so 3.6 billion barrels is only 20000 days worth – 55 years.
    
    Would be great if we could tap in to it – mostly to save us $10 billion off our the massive $20-30Billion a year current account deficit.
    
    3 2
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    November 17, 2024 7:01pm
    - AitchW
      
      But carbon neutral…..
      
      0 0
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      November 17, 2024 9:11pm
kevn

Tai… Jack up the standard of living even more in Norway, they who already have a world beater superannuation scheme.
8 1
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November 17, 2024 1:05pm
- Mike
  
  Yes. Unlike the feckless English, who pissed away the oil royalties, the Norwegians invested theirs.
  
  8 6
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  November 17, 2024 1:47pm
  - Jack5
    
    Norwegian’s handling of oil income is a lesson for us, or would be if we had big oil deposits and these were secure from future Arderns.
    
    The Norwegian’s Government’s Statens pensjonsfond (pension fund) consists of two sovereign wealth funds.
    
    The bigger fund by far is the Government Pension Fund Global, or Oil Fund. It has assets of about $NZ2.97 trillion. The other, smaller fund, Government Pension Fund Norway, invests in Norwegian and other Scandivaian assets. Its assets total about $NZ59 billion.
    
    An old (2019) but good article on the difference between Norway and the UK on oil income:
    
    https://www.lovemoney.com/news/85476/norway-oil-reserves-norges-investment-fund-returns-strategy
    
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    November 17, 2024 3:34pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump’s war on press freedoms.
He noted there were a couple of lessons not taught in business school that successful people must know. At the top of the list was this piece of advice: “Get even with people. If they screw you, screw them back 10 times as hard. I really believe it.”

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/trump-s-new-war-on-press-freedoms-has-already-begun-opinion/ar-AA1ud0xH?
5 3
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November 17, 2024 2:07pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump Whitehouse Appointments so far.
That is the headline – I would say possible appointments, the cards keep moving.
First resurfaced vid Homan gave AOC shit.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/trump-s-cabinet-tracker-here-s-who-is-among-the-white-house-appointments-so-far/ar-AA1tUSbl?
3 3
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November 17, 2024 3:00pm
than

I was driving into Wellington on the Hutt motorway earlier today. Saw 3 busses emblazoned with Waipeira trust’s website at the rear. Obviously here for the Hikoi. Further proof it’s not a grassroots movement.
7 0
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November 17, 2024 7:58pm
- nathie
  
  Perhaps they need to add a slogan to their buskoi signage saying “drill baby drill – cheap energy powers the protest hikoi”?!!
  
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  November 17, 2024 8:37pm
- AitchW
  
  And funded by the taxpayer.
  
  1 0
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  November 17, 2024 9:10pm
- Surely Knott
  
  I wonder how many of the vans (there were at least 6) were filled with staff on full pay to join the protest
  
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  November 17, 2024 9:26pm
JimBobJoe

Karkoi causes Chaos….

That should be the headline in tomorrows papers. Major jam just south of Levin, and a lot of frustrated drivers just wanting to go home….

Always remember (to reuse the Chinese protestor in Hong Kong’s line): TPM are RsOle
3 0
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November 17, 2024 7:59pm
cmm

Napier woman says she doesn’t like her staff having to walk miles…

FFS: Walk “miles” from downtown Napier and you’re in farmland.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360490626/napier-mayor-says-higher-parking-fees-makes-shopping-easier
0 0
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November 18, 2024 1:47pm
Jack5

TVNZ in its reporting/promotion of the Maori protest march/hikoi is near inciting public disorder.

The reporter tonight seemed to say who can say what will happen when the protesters come face to face with the “author” of the bill – David Seymour.

Without Leftist-Woke TVNZ’s coverage-promotion, there would either be no marching protest, or no-one would know if there was one.

Asbsolutely no objectivity in TVNZ’s coverage. They are promoting it.
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November 18, 2024 6:09pm

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