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November 16, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 16 November 2024

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Yvette

Yesterday evening One News told of haka and hikoi video clips going viral and seen by easily over 30 million viewers, with Chris Finlayson, Former Treaty Negotiations Minister, saying people overseas will be asking “… What is going wrong in New Zealand, we thought your race relations were best in the world, so ‘Congratulations David, you’ve made the headlines in a rather negative way’.”

Whether the state-owned channel, its heads of staff. journalists, or editors, or Finlayson himself could have phrased this better, it still shows one approach to the whole matter as: “All this shit is happening and this is the man responsible.”

Whereas another approach is: All this shit reveals the Treaty is no longer on track, and while Luxon wants to ignore it all to get the nation back on track, all this shit reveals something that needs to be closer to its original pre-1970’s track than it now is, before Luxon can “sweat the small stuff”.

Goldsmith –

“Just how we sort of navigate our way between honouring Treaty commitments and Treaty settlements and the Treaty process while never losing sight of the basic expectations that people have living in a modern democracy around equality.”
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/533892/treaty-principles-bill-paul-goldsmith-responds-to-christopher-finlayson-s-comments.

This is yet another of many approaches: a bit conciliatory, much more reasoned and avoiding extremes – it could even suggest an action Luxon could take: appoint Goldsmith as more of a liaison between National and ACT – if Luxon doesn’t fear Goldsmith may become contaminated and unravel National surprisingly solid perhaps terrified identity politics block.

And at the moment perhaps that is a Stumbling Block in the Way of better handling the Treaty –
How aware is Luxon that he could become the man named, instead of “Congratulations, David Seymour”, as responsible for all this shit?
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November 16, 2024 8:02am
- SpencerArnold
  
  Dame Jenny Shipley is talking up civil war. Should I be getting a firearms licence about now?
  
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  November 16, 2024 10:53am
  - NK
    
    Just get a firearm. Forget the licence.
    
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    November 16, 2024 11:56am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    She was not talking up civil war, she is suggesting this pushes it closer, stop trying to suggest this crap, TPM has already clearly stated civil war, let the bastards try. How long before the army is mowing nohopers down? Civil war if a shot is fired will leave a government with no choice but to defend NZers. TPM MPs using a gun shooting signature and yelling as much at Seymour in Māori means this is coming, nothing this bill will do will stop this, in the meantime, the government is going about dropping the treaty one by one from law, I am not sure, but this bill could be the plan to get the laws changed while TPM and greens and Labour rabble stamp their feet.
    
    What Shipley said was simply a warning, not a bloody encouragement of civil war
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:16pm
    - kowtow
      
      That’s open to interpretation , in the context of her saying “civil war” ;
      
      “And I caution New Zealand – the minute you put the Treaty into a political framework in its totality, you are inviting civil war.
      
      “I would fight against it. Māori have every reason to fight against it.”
      
      Is she saying she’d actually fight , is she encouraging Maoris to fight.Is she fomenting sedition against parliament /the Crown .
      
      Surely someone as erudite ( yeah right) as her should chose her words much more carefully.
      
      Plenty of folk in NZ have had visits and raids from the police and been arrested for much much less .( see Paul Burns post yesterday)
      
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      November 16, 2024 3:08pm
      - Ghost
        
        I took it that she was saying she would fight against the bill, not physically fight.
        
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        November 16, 2024 3:23pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        Shipleys commentary was inappropriate, misleading, and inflammatory.
        
        She talks about Maori rights. But absolutely fails to note the rapidly increasing erosion or democracy and rights for non Maori in every sphere of public life, from our regional parks to our surgery waiting list, to the resource consents, the economic rorts and the fees for the annual checks of your septic tank.
        
        “ the principles” are embedded in our schools and our hospitals and even our real estate agents are forced to take the knee. We’ve had enough. The division comes from Labour and Labour lites undemocratic unequal and unjust treatment of NZ. We are sick of it.
        
        Seymour has spoken politely, calmly and thoughtfully in every interview I’ve seen. Instead of addressing his points HAna and Shipley use threats of mass violence. They are the extremists. No other democratic country does this. It’s wrong.
        
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        November 16, 2024 10:29pm
  - Dougal10
    
    Nah just work out how to get rid of your local kfc and maccas if it starts, no food no fighting.
    
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    November 16, 2024 3:19pm
  - Keith White
    
    Police will never give anyone a firearms licence for self defence reasons.
    
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    November 16, 2024 8:54pm
- pdm
  
  Yvette at least this time TVNZ gave Seymour a `right of reply’ to Finlayson and while I cannot remember the exact wording he said something along these lines.
  
  `Why didn’t you (Finlayson) fix it when you were in power.’
  
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  November 16, 2024 11:16am
  - kowtow
    
    Finlayson and the Let’s Destroy the Constitution Wing of the National party are the problem.
    
    His predecessors worked for “Full and Final”( we never hear that phrase anymore , do we) , but this lot are literally up for the whole let’s create chaos of never ending treatyism.
    
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    November 16, 2024 11:25am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He is nuts, in one instance he is rubbishing Seymour, and on another front yesterday he was rubbish if Nats about the reasons he joined the party.
      
      I think Findlayson is still bitter at Bridges moving him on before the 2020 election. Let’s not forget he was Bats only gay at the time, and possibly was not liked,
      
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      November 16, 2024 12:21pm
- Thodric Jarl
  
  Finlayson negotiated the terrible Tuhoe settlement, which has seen a group of crazies as extreme as TPM turn back the dial on decades of predator control work, whilst unilaterally destroying huts used by Maori and Pakeha alike. You could argue that Finlayson is responsible for the mess made worse by the failed sixth Labour government.
  
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  November 16, 2024 2:00pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Finlayson is part of the elites ruling class – knows better than the rest of the citizenry – essentially in the public trough whether it is in parliament or lawyering up for iwi settlements.
    
    Definitely a Nino – National in name only, but unfortunately too many of these false types in Nats over the years have helped to create the inequality mess that we have today.
    
    Given disproportionate airtime, like Liz Cheney, as a so called Right of Centre rep who has seen the light. Activist media happy to post a so called alternative opinion that aligns with their own agenda.
    
    Wolf in sheep’s clothing, not healthy for the flock. Who in the current Nats is similar – there on false pretences being left to create carnage by an inept leadership?
    
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    November 16, 2024 2:58pm
    - kowtow
      
      And he had his Hilary Clinton / Michael Woods moment calling decent concerned NZers nasty names .
      
      Largely memory holed of course.
      
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      November 16, 2024 3:12pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

The carkoi will be overnighting in Dannevirke tonight. It’s a bit smaller than other stop-sites, though in its favour is a particularly long main drag. Which is also SH2.

I wonder whether the cops will take the blockade of that road a bit more seriously than they do local roads.

I also wonder whether they’re checking for valid WoFs.
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November 16, 2024 8:03am
- kowtow
  
  HDPA reported there were a lot of gang members involved .
  I wonder if the other members of the so called fourth estate , including the senior TVNZ woman , who posted pictures of herself sipping wine at expensive LA inplaces earlier this year ( while colleagues were facing the sack) will include a gallery of mug shots from this Maori Party organised front .
  
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  November 16, 2024 10:30am
- pdm
  
  Bollocks – and regos.
  
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  November 16, 2024 11:17am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Pics today going through Napier with apparently 1000s looked could only see the rabble with weapons
  
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  November 16, 2024 12:22pm
- Sacha
  
  Gee. They’re hiking over the Rimutukas?
  Haha.
  That’d please the commuters no end.
  
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  November 16, 2024 12:52pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    I think they will cross over to Palmerston North and get on SH1.
    
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    November 16, 2024 1:21pm
Scott

Donald Trump has just announced something I think we can all agree on. He’s taking action against antisemitism in America’s universities –

“Trump said he would inform every college president that if they do not “end antisemitic propaganda,” they would lose accreditation and federal support.

“We will not subsidize the creation of terrorist sympathizers, and we’re not going to do it – certainly on American soil,” he said.”

And this bit is also important –
“Trump added that he would inform all educational institutions that if they permit violence or harassment against Jewish students, they will be “held accountable for violations of the civil rights law.”

https://vinnews.com/2024/11/14/finally-trump-says-universities-will-lose-funding-if-they-tolerate-antisemitism/

So universities won’t be able to allow Jewish students to be harassed and stopped from attending class. This is something the literal Nazis literally did in 1937. That America allowed it in 2024 was disgraceful.
I think even our host can get behind this announcement from Trump. 😎
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November 16, 2024 8:04am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Trump is not yet inaugurated and he is telling the Marxists what is going to happen.
  Good to have early warnings to straighten Universities out. They are infested with anti Americans.
  
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  November 16, 2024 11:03am
- Ra Henare
  
  Not so easy to tell Universities how to ACT.
  
  First amendment and all that.
  
  Ie Pro Palestinians have a right to protest, even if “”some”” say it’s anti-Semitic.
  
  Suspect Mr Trump is not fully aware of Civil Rights laws in the USA. 🙂
  
  Point to ponder. Protesting against the state of Israel’s actions is not Antisemitic.
  
  The total Jewish population and other residents in October 2024 was 7,689,000 (78.6%), and 2,095,000 (21.4%) were Arabs. Those identified as “others” are non-Arab Christians, Baha’i, Samaritans, Karaite Jews, Seventh-day Adventists, Messianic Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses
  
  https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/latest-population-statistics-for-israel
  
  Interesting days ahead
  
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  November 16, 2024 2:08pm
  - fernglas
    
    Arabs are also Semites. A quarter of Israeli Jews are atheists. Pro-Palestinians routinely couch their objections to the state of Israel in terms of Zionism rather than Judaism, including Hamas in its most recent charter. Sorting out exactly what any given protestor is motivated by will not be an easy task
    
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    November 16, 2024 6:20pm
Bridgenag

Friday Funnies: MSM Wets their Pants –
Now the fun part (and the hard work) starts.

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/friday-funnies-msm-wets-their-pants?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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November 16, 2024 8:11am
Souvlaki

This article below ,from HDPA demonstrates amply why we need the Treaty Bill. Despite Paul Goldsmiths email to reassure the ‘faithful ‘ all is well, ‘we know best’, and Louise Upston’s ‘born to rule ‘ monologue in the house on Thursday, nothing could be further from the truth. Here we have TVNZ running what is nothing short of nightly propaganda broadcast in favour of left wing causes. National have been in power now for over a year, and yes, steps have been made in the proper direction…but at a glacially slow pace. Unless we have a binding referendum, there is nothing to prevent Labour in cahoots with TPM undoing any good work this term !
https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/11/heather-du-plessis-allan-good-luck.html
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November 16, 2024 8:13am
- Philview
  
  I think the Government has to find a way to get TVNZ News off air. It is a destabilising propaganda programme that fronts on behalf of Te Pati Maori.
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:17am
  - John Loveridge
    
    Quite correct. Their description of the girl MP’s disruptive haka as “spine-tingling” said it all, really.
    
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    November 16, 2024 9:56am
    - JerJer
      
      Ironically it is embarrassing rather than spine tingling. It almost like a Stone Age people that can’t communicate and have no civil skills have been recently discovered in New Zealand and thrust into our Parliament with no idea how things work there. If it were not so serious (the lowering of standards and competence), it would be funny.
      
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      November 16, 2024 10:59am
    - pdm
      
      I thought the best put down of the Haka leading female Maori Party member was this.
      
      `She is a nice looking girl’ (or similar) but,………….
      
      May have been Shane Jones and context is everything..
      
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      November 16, 2024 11:21am
    - Ra Henare
      
      I think some serious over reaction from commenters here to reports saying the Haka was spine tingling.
      
      It is an emotional response to an event (look up the history of Haka, its not a challenge, a war dance or any of the other crap thrown around in ignorant media)
      
      Ergo, it’s supposed to be spine tingling.
      
      While I strongly disagree with the stupidity of the young ladies performance(and her idiot mates) in the chamber.
      
      I have to say it was at the pinnacle of emotion and yes, spine tingling whether you agree with her political views or not.
      
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      November 16, 2024 2:17pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    During the Greece economic meltdown in 2008, the Greek Government was so desperate to save money that it, literally, unplugged the vast loss making state TV stations. It was pretty funny.
    
    What would happen if the government just unplugged TVNZ? There would be hysteria for maybe a week and everyone would go about their lives.
    
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    November 16, 2024 9:57am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Pull the life support plug of TVNZ.
      Let them die a natural death.
      
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      November 16, 2024 11:05am
      - Keith White
        
        It’s just Electrical Assistance In Dying.
        
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        November 16, 2024 8:56pm
  - Paulus
    
    TVNZ is still being paid for by us Taxpyers and appears to only employ those who will continue to oppose anything and everything the Elected Coalition Government was elected on.
    Not unusual today in New Zealand publically owned organisations including the Public Service.
    Where it will go nobody knows except the secret anarchists of which there are more than publically perceived.
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:51am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “TVNZ is still being paid for by us Taxpayers….”
      
      Well indirectly. It is a loss making commercial station so does not pay a dividend. If it cannot return to a profit, it will eventually need a capital injection or be shut down. Hence its current efforts to cut costs.
      
      The PIJF is gone. The producers of New Zealand shows on TVNZ get New Zealand on Air money but that money also goes to shows on other channels.
      
      In contrast, RNZ is 100 percent funded by New Zealand on Air.
      
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      November 16, 2024 12:10pm
      - Paulus
        
        Has the PIJF gone – when ?
        NZonAir appears still to be behind PIJF many articles.
        
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        November 16, 2024 2:15pm
      - Ghost
        
        It’s closed down, but their last round of funding last year was done to run out yearly 2026
        
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        November 16, 2024 2:54pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    The hikoi, the behaviour of leftie MPs, the media paid for propaganda are all helping government, I say let them have their say, ( do we really want to silence NZers? That’s a Marxist thing) the outrage of the Maori rent a mob hatred is now up seating the lefts chances of the centre voting for a leftie coalition of losers
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:29pm
- Yvette
  
  Is this the guts of it? –
  … the woman who was tipped to become the top news boss has just been outed today for taking personal leave to go on the Hikoi
  … Just a few weeks ago, TVNZ self-published its editorial guidelines for journalists.
  The point of that was to tell us that they take impartiality seriously and that they are impartial.
  Well, that’s just been massively undone by finding out that the woman who will be in charge of all of the journalists actually doesn’t really like the current government at all.
  …
  So good luck to TVNZ trying to convince us from here on that they’re impartial.
  
  Perhaps she was doing personal research, immersing herself in the news at flax-roots … no?
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:23am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Speaking of certain people, I am sure I seen Tory Whanau doing the haka in the stands the other day, look at Acts FB post of it, it pans too the left, and she looks like she is doing the haka half way around to the left, and at the front of the seats, if it was her, then she should be removed and replaced by a commissioner
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:32pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Oh dear 😩
  
  “What is much more serious for them is that the woman who was tipped to become the top news boss has just been outed today for taking personal leave to go on the Hikoi.”
  
  BTW on this “Louise Upstons ‘born to rule ‘ monologue in the house on Thursday….” you are spot on. I listened to her and could not make it to the end. It was uncannily similar to a once regular commenter here who raised my blood pressure. 😅
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:27am
  - Quail
    
    BY
    By outed do you mean fired?
    Hope so.
    
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    November 16, 2024 8:37am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Glad to see you supported the concept of freedom of speech Bene by exercising your right to stop watching, listening.
    
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    November 16, 2024 2:20pm
- Cassandra
  
  Glacial is being kind! While the Maori Health Authority no longer exists as such it is alive and kicking under a different name as part of the Health Department. We still have a distinct body costing a fortune solely for NZers with some Maori DNA. Do Maoris get different diseases from other NZers? Apart from immunity to MS it doesn’t seem so, so why do we persist with Maori this and that? Because to stop it would be divisive? It’s already divisive!
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:27am
  - G152
    
    But we have no full blood Maori so those who make claims of a special health requirement are wrong.
    Their health requirements and European health requirements are the same
    
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    November 16, 2024 8:45am
  - cmm
    
    ” Do Maoris get different diseases from other NZers?”
    
    No, but they do encounter them at different rates.
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:30am
    - Cantabrian
      
      Do they really? As most ‘Maori’ are more other ethnicities than pure Maori, most would surely be subject to the same disease risk as everybody else. Why would someone with 1/64 Maori blood be any more likely to get cancer, diabetes, etc than me? Live style must have a more significant role.
      
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      November 16, 2024 10:56am
      - Paulus
        
        Yes
        Lifestyle is different as they are always right !
        
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        November 16, 2024 2:17pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Canta, you really do need to do some research in to inherited liability for health problems.
        
        I inherited my baldness gene, nothing to do with lifestyle
        
        (Trying to keep it simple for your benefit)
        
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        November 16, 2024 2:23pm
    - Cassandra
      
      Such as? If you’re thinking of rheumatic fever then all people subject to the same conditions suffer equally. There’s no Maori only susceptibility. These are diseases of poverty. Or is it diabetes? Or heart disease? Kidney disease? Same answer – life style has a big part to play. Doesn’t matter what colour your skin is.
      
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      November 16, 2024 11:01am
      - cmm
        
        Yup, for the most part the differences are due to lifestyle choices. There are some genetic differences too which play a role.
        
        On top of that melanin differences contributes to Maori having lower Vit D levels which contributes to a shopping list of diseases which Maori seem to be prone to – from mental health at one end to colon cancer at the other.
        
        Of course morbid obesity – generally a lifestyle choice – exacerbates Vit D deficiency too…
        
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        November 16, 2024 11:16am
  - Paulus
    
    Why is it that 16% of the New Zealand populati0n should get and expect better teament than anybody of the 84% remaining.
    Why are they so less healthy than anybody else ?
    The Special people Health Service has not actually changed – look into any major hospital.
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:54am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    The government has started the process of removing 24 instances of the treaty mentioned in law, this is what the treaty principles is supposed to achieve, source. Seymour’s mouth, the removal of things like the Māori health authority or the co governance in 3 waters were canned with a stroke of a pen, the law that Seymour wants to deal too is being done one by one as we speak, but it’s happening and the left are too stupid to realise it’s happening
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:36pm
    - Dougal10
      
      And Seymour’s law should stop the next labour government from reversing all these changes.
      
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      November 16, 2024 3:53pm
      - Ghost
        
        No. There is nothing in it that will stop labour reversing it
        
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        November 16, 2024 3:57pm
- Paulus
  
  One third of the Coalition Government concluded,
  Only 24 months to go !
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:39am
  - cmm
    
    An opportunity to vote to take your hand out of the frying pan and put it into the blender.
    
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    November 16, 2024 11:17am
    - imalwaysright
      
      NZ would be a great country if it was properly managed and the population engaged in personal responsibility.
      
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      November 16, 2024 1:28pm
- peterwn
  
  In my opinion, if the Bill is allowed to proceed to passing, there would be all out civil war which would make 1981 look pretty tame. So Chris Luxon is stuck with having to keep the coalition in balance to avoid such extremism. To people who want to see Treaty ‘scope creep’ halted and turned back (and I feel that way too), David Seymour is the ‘good cop’ and Chris Luxon is the ‘bad cop’.
  David Seymour in a way has the ‘authority’ (which lasts until the Bill dies), but Chris Luxon is stuck with the ‘responsibility’. David (and his followers) will have to accept that if he pulled the plug on the present coalition then either Winston would form a coalition with Labour/Green/TPM (TPM is necessary for a majority) or an election would ensue which at present could well give Labour/Green/TPM (or Winston) a majority.
  It is all very well commenters on Kiwiblog and elsewhere sabre rattling saying that Chris Luxon should grow a pair, take a harder line, etc, etc. But put yourself in his shoes and reflect on realistic options.
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:39am
  - Cassandra
    
    An element of truth in this, Peter, but what happens if Seymour pulls the Bill? We’ll just get more of the same. Sliding gently down the slippery slope of racism towards becoming a cold Fiji. Luxon needed to grow his pair months ago. Willis saying that the Treaty is a partnership is just an example of National being a large part of the problem. Key allowing the indigenous thing to be signed is another. Doug Graham opened Pandora’s Box ($1 billion phooey) and someone needs to shut it.
    
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    November 16, 2024 9:49am
    - cmm
      
      Pull the bill or not, it won’t make it through the second reading.
      
      The extremists are going to win either way – with the help of National.
      
      They may as well pull the bill and use the time constructively.
      
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      November 16, 2024 10:39am
    - peterwn
      
      I see that Jenny Shipley has said that the Bill risks ‘civil war’ (although the Mainzeal episode would have damaged her image as well as her wallet). This echos my comment which has attracted 7 downticks, but so what?
      Whether or not David Seymour had put up that Bill or not, there would have been a serious divisive situation to be dealt with. The Bill has brought the matter into sharp focus. Things need to be carefully and skillfully worked through. There is no place for brute force and ignorance. What is needed is serious negotiation and tradeoffs. The highest profile tradeoff is the Bill itself. Chris would be fully aware of the views of his constituents on this issue and would have taken a lower key approach to get some reasonable resolution. He did not want the Bill but treated it as a price to pay to be able to form a stable coalition. He promised to ACT that he would allow the Bill to proceed so far and he has kept that promise and will continue to keep that promise despite the protests and hikoi. He has promised not to allow the Bill to proceed beyond second reading (I am not quite sure where is cut-off is, he may not allow a second reading). I am sure he will stick to that promise. I suspect that he thinks that all the ranting and raving, hikois etc would play into his hands in due course. Just like a good poker player he is not going to put his cards on the table. He probably concedes that a slice of National’s vote may pass to ACT over this but this is an unavoidable price to pay. If I was in his shoes I would be quietly moving towards starting to hold Maori leaders to account as to how treaty settlement money is actually assisting the ordinary Maori family, or are there different castes of Maori right down to the ‘untouchables’ who seemed to have gained no benefit. Probably many have joined the hikoi on the promise of better things to come but with no real hope of promises being fulfilled. This would be an area of vulnerability worthy of subtle attack.
      
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      November 16, 2024 11:20am
      - pdm
        
        `What is needed is serious negotiation and tradeoffs.’.
        
        Impossible to see that happening under the current Labour/Green/Maori Party Leadership. I suspect none of those 3 parties have even one Caucus member collectively who would think that way.
        
        They see a bandwagon and are fully on board.
        
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        November 16, 2024 11:51am
      - Eastlander
        
        No, the left opposition’s notion of the treaty and its application is anathema to law and modern civilisation. It is not acceptable to any degree, and we know this because accepting even moderate forms of it has swelled the arrogance of Maori nationalists and promoted ever greater demands. Full legal equality and the total abolition of racial separatism in the law is what is needed. Anyone who would raise civil war to prevent it is not a compatriot but a foreign enemy and I do not want them here in this country on any terms.
        
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        November 16, 2024 12:55pm
      - Cassandra
        
        I’m not too sure having J Shipley on your side is a plus. However, we now define divisive as anything Maori oppose. The thugs veto. That’s what Shipley is advocating. One way of getting cogovernance I suppose. I have a solution. Rename the Principles Bill the NZ Fundamental Rights Bill. Accord it primacy. Pass another which says that the ToW has no prnciples. Call it the Tuheita Memorial Act.
        
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        November 16, 2024 1:08pm
      - rouppe
        
        If I was in his shoes I would be quietly moving towards starting to hold Maori leaders to account as to how treaty settlement money is actually assisting the ordinary Maori family, or are there different castes of Maori right down to the ‘untouchables’ who seemed to have gained no benefit.
        
        I read somewhere on the Ngai Tahu website that they help Ngai Tahu families into home ownership – if they have enough money. If you’re Ngai Tahu and on the bones of your arse, look somewhere else.
        
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        November 16, 2024 1:40pm
      - Michael Sommerville
        
        I find that people who predict the future are usually wrong. Jenny Shipley was not a particularly good PM and as such, her opinion is worth 5/8’s of F All.
        
        To those who are against the Bill I would ask “What is your solution or are you happy to give away our country bit by bit until there is nothing left?”
        
        We need to take a stand and David is doing it. While the passing of the Bill will not succeed, at least we are now talking about a solution and that is a step forward.
        
        Jenny Shipley – you are irrelevant.
        
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        November 16, 2024 1:43pm
    - JerJer
      
      It’s never going to happen. We are talking about a very small number of people accompanied by a bunch of leftie white layabouts and sone rent a crowd that all up would not even fill a quarter of Eden park. They are nobody and nothing. The entire part-Maori population makes up 16% (probably less considering there are now all these people they identify as such). They are also the third biggest demographic now with Asians taking second place. Most Māori are proper people and do not support this rag tag bunch annoying people around the country, and causing congestion. The point that people have had enough is rapidly approaching and it will not end well for the activists, just like we have seen in the US in the past week. The lefties and the woke are done. Same will happen here.
      
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      November 16, 2024 11:49am
      - ISeeRed
        
        Most Māori are proper people and do not support this rag tag bunch
        
        The majority of Maori shoppers at my supermarket workplace sport ugly face scribbles and random tribal graffiti on their limbs now. That wasn’t the case when I started 6 years ago. Maybe they don’t fully support the racial supremacists, separatists and activitists that have captured and captivated the hearts and minds of the media. They’re not opposing it or criticising it much, and definitely acting more special, entitled and proud of their “race”, especially when caught stealing. (Yes, other ethnicities shoplift. They tend not act so offended when confronted.) It’s sad to see how easily people are brainwashed by revisionist history and self-aggrandising lies when racial pride is invoked. And that goes for any “race”.
        
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        November 16, 2024 12:53pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      What the [del] does the treaty bringing two races together as one people mean if it is not a [del] partnership? Actually, go and look at what partnership means in the dictionary, it’s not that hard
      
      [Mod – tone it done]
      
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      November 16, 2024 12:40pm
      - rouppe
        
        The Treaty doesn’t “bring two races together”.
        
        It establishes normalised, equalised, consistent relations between an empire and the dozens if not hundreds of disparate warring groups of people.
        
        One of the first effects of that normalised and consistent relations was the immediate cessation of the current practice of slavery among those dozens if not hundreds of disparate warring groups of people.
        
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        November 16, 2024 1:46pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        What does the treaty mean? It means Article 1-3: you ceded sovereignty, you keep the land you own, and that you have all the same rights and responsibilities as a British citizen.
        
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        November 16, 2024 10:43pm
  - Souvlaki
    
    Luxon should be able to explain his reasoning himself….unless I missed something, it appears to me he has his fingers in his ears ” saying ” blah blah blah…la la la”
    He has yet to give a cogent response as to why we ALL should are not equal before the law.
    I respect your reasoning, however I see it as a capitulation to violent rhetoric solely to avoid ‘unpleasantries’.
    This is simply not good enough imo. Some things ARE worth a fight if we are to avoid subjugation, and THIS ISSUE is one!
    
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    November 16, 2024 9:55am
    - peterwn
      
      As I said, he is playing poker here. He is not going to disclose his hand.
      
      7 3
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      November 16, 2024 12:08pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        peterwn: “As I said, he is playing poker here. He is not going to disclose his hand.”
        
        OK the traditional nat’s playbook of avoiding pesky transparency and accountability and playing little god kings. Which is how we got into the complete racial shit-show we now find ourselves in.
        
        Noice.
        
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        November 16, 2024 4:24pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        He can play poker but the public can see it for what it is. Meanwhile Seymour appears intelligent, articulate, honest and genuine in his beliefs. He outlines a clear and simple and fair narrative. One that Luxon refuses to address.
        
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        November 16, 2024 10:50pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He has stated clearly as has Peter’s that they are removing the treaty one by one out of law, this bill sets out to do exactly the same
      
      4 2
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      November 16, 2024 12:41pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Yes getting the treaty out of places where it has no rational basis for being there is all good. But that’s quite a different thing to nailing down once and for all what the treaty actually means isn’t it?
        
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        November 16, 2024 4:29pm
  - cmm
    
    ” to avoid such extremism”
    
    No, the extremism is there and is growing.
    
    What you seem petrified of is those extremists taking action. If you just bow down to them then they have won.
    
    Sure, Luxon is between a rock and a hard place and is trying to find a safe space to hide himself.
    
    This is a long time coming. It is the inevitable result of not addressing the issue properly in 1879.
    
    The Maori roll was, IMHO, justified for the original reason it was created. That ended in 1879 with the introduction of universal male suffrage.
    
    From that point on there was no reasonable justification for the Maori Roll. Allowing this sore to fester for over 140 years is creating what we have today. It won’t go away until properly dealt with.
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:37am
    - kowtow
      
      Royal Commission on Electoral system recommended abolishing . That was the chance . Why wasn’t that put as an option to the people when we adopted MMP .
      
      Deep State , anti democratic stuff.
      
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      November 16, 2024 11:38am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is “blackmail” under another name.
    
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    November 16, 2024 11:11am
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    peterwn: yours is exactly the same Rawiri Willie & JT thugs veto appeasement response that over the last 50 years created the 2023 threshold of the NZ racist ethnostate, thanks to a long list of craven National & Labour politicians (Helen Clark was probably the most willing to say no more eg Foreshore & Seabed).
    
    & you quote Jenny Shipley below – which says it all about credibility
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:23pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They have already stated they will create civil war, one shot fired at an innocent NZer will see army controlling the streets
    
    4 3
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    November 16, 2024 12:38pm
    - AitchW
      
      Do you really think so? One random shot will be written off as gang violence or a mental health issue.
      What might force the government’s hand is repeated incidents carried out by known activists. Even then it would be a very high bar to invoke martial law.
      
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      November 16, 2024 2:07pm
  - Warren Murray
    
    Do u want your civil war now or later?
    
    Luxon has chosen ‘later’ because he won’t be PM when it occurs
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:38pm
    - Ghost
      
      Meanwhile the government pushes ahead removing the treaty and principles from legislation
      
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      November 16, 2024 1:21pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  You do realise the glacial changing of each individual law will be harder for Labour to change, this bill will be much easier to rule back
  
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  November 16, 2024 12:25pm
Grunter

Can any of the Nat supporters on Kiwi Blog rationally explain the position Luxon etc are taking on the Treaty Bill? And yes, I understand they are maintaining their pre-election stance of only voting for it to the 2nd reading stage.

My sense is that the lid has clearly been lifted on the entire “Treaty is a partnership” lie. We now have a discussion of sorts underway and the Leftards are loosing the plot and having meltdowns as expected. But why are National supporting the partnership BS? It is clearly not written in the Treaty document.
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November 16, 2024 8:14am
- kowtow
  
  Extraordinary really.
  
  The Great Saviour John Key ran on a platform of abolishing the colonial legacy , property franchise era , pre MMP maori seats , with nary a quip from the great and the good of the Nat party , yet his own protoge is making a huge play against something , in comparison , so ridiculously mild and in fact fair and equitable , and you’d swear the world was coming to an end , and now the same nat Gradees who were so silent are out and talking of troopships on the tide .
  
  Incredible.
  
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  November 16, 2024 10:58am
- Scott
  
  Grunter – read Peterwn at 9.39am. But look I don’t think many people here want an explanation. They are locked into– Luxon is weak and woke.
  
  When in fact the coalition has moved at great speed and repealed almost the entire Labour agenda. I think we should be thankful for that.
  
  National is a broad church party that has plenty of woke people in an electorate that in many respects is weak and woke.
  
  Luxon and Peters have promised to take references to the Treaty of Waitangi out of the legislation. That’s also a good approach. That’s not weak and woke. 😎
  
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  November 16, 2024 11:20am
  - Ghost
    
    People here are blinded to only one way and refuse to place blame on the fact Seymour is a weak negotiator. That he could only get a deal which he agreed to for his bill to only go to the first reading. Let the hoopla continue around the bill because it takes attention off the fact the government are working through removing the treaty and principles from legislation.
    
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    November 16, 2024 11:54am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Seymour a weak negotiator, OR majority votes (for now) Nats unwilling to come out of the huge irrational hole they’ve dug themselves into over the years on this issue (hence all the operators who contributed to digging that huge hole now trying to justify it).
      
      Seymour is probably the most clear headed and logical politician NZ has ever had. I’m putting my money on the latter.
      
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      November 16, 2024 4:34pm
- WaynelSexton
  
  Because National never takes a stand and never go on the offensive.
  They only ever posture and then go whoops, “well we tried but then the media called us racist”
  
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  November 16, 2024 11:31am
  - Scott
    
    They are taking a stand. They are removing references to the Treaty of Waitangi out of the legislation, unless directly relevant. That’s a different approach from Act. But it’s not wrong. 😎
    
    10 3
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    November 16, 2024 12:04pm
    - Ghost
      
      Yeah, it’s not a quick process, it will take time, but by next election a lot of treaty rubbish should be already removed.
      
      https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/06/treaty-provisions-set-to-be-scrapped-from-corrections-amendment-bill/
      
      https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/05/27/govt-moves-to-replace-or-repeal-treaty-principles-clauses-from-laws/
      
      https://www.scribd.com/document/778721331/Scope-of-Treaty-of-Waitangi-clause-review
      
      4 3
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      November 16, 2024 12:10pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        We need the Trumpian approach of firing every single bureaucrat that promoted, enacted and/or enforced DEI, CRT and any other policies designed to privilege some people over others on racial grounds. This racist poison must be purged from what should be an impartial public service that treats all New Zealand citizens equally.
        
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        November 16, 2024 1:04pm
      - Ghost
        
        No. We don’t fire people simply because they were doing what the government of the day instructed them to do
        
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        November 16, 2024 1:14pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      It’s a different approach from Act but it leads to exactly the same result, and Nats way makes it so much harder to unravel
      
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      November 16, 2024 12:44pm
    - Cassandra
      
      Scott: that’s a NZF policy, not Nat.
      
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      November 16, 2024 1:11pm
      - Ghost
        
        Which was agreed to by national in the Coalition agreement and is being worked through
        
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        November 16, 2024 1:13pm
    - Dougal10
      
      But they have nothing to stop labour and the greens putting them back in , if only they had someone promoting a bill to make us all equal under the law //
      
      3 1
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      November 16, 2024 4:08pm
      - Ghost
        
        There is nothing in Seymour’s bill that will stop a future government putting anything back
        
        Btw from the nz first and national agreement
        
        The Coalition Government will defend the principle that New Zealanders are equal before the law, with the same rights and obligations, and with the guarantee of the privileges and responsibilities of equal citizenship in New Zealand.
        
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        November 16, 2024 4:24pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  They are doing the exact same thing as this bill one by one taking the treaty out of law, perhaps you should listen instead of simply hating Luxon
  
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  November 16, 2024 12:43pm
  - pdm
    
    G. I do not hate Christopher Luxon.
    
    But, I have little confidence in him fulfilling the change obligations that I and the majority of New Zealand voters voted for on 17 October 2023.
    
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    November 16, 2024 5:11pm
- Eastlander
  
  Truthfully, inasmuch as the Luxon strategy points the extremists toward the treaty principles bill while the removal of the treaty principles is prepared in the background it has some merit.
  
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  November 16, 2024 12:59pm
Flossie

After an outing with friends (boomers like ourselves) who made references to “on the news” my partner commented how much less stressful life has been since we ditched TV news.
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November 16, 2024 8:20am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  My wife and I stopped watching TV altogether ten years ago. Figure we’ve saved about 5,000 hours each.
  
  The grandkids know that the TV is only for watching DVDs so have gotten used to actually playing games and doing puzzles.
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:28am
- Burtland
  
  TVNZ is now the anti-government government channel – very Monty Python
  
  you would think someone in government might notice – maybe they dont watch either
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:11am
  - Don Beckett
    
    The Monty Python channel – very good – can I keep it? 🙂
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:30am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  You will be happy though, because all will have told you never boring Nats again
  
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  November 16, 2024 12:45pm
kevn

They have gone international… to the derision of most.
https://notthebee.com/article/maori-party-in-new-zealand-rips-equal-rights-bill-shuts-down-parliament-with-haka-dance
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November 16, 2024 8:25am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It will end up like the Taiwanese Parliament. 😅
  
  https://youtu.be/NfYlL_r5xKk?si=P9Em_OmpjZ7j-ctl
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:34am
  - nygr
    
    I predict it will end up more like the Fijian parliament. If you said to me 30 years ago Fiji will have 4 coup d’état I would have laughed. Over time and with MMP all things are possible.
    
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    November 16, 2024 9:11am
- Quail
  
  The derision was also found on Fox ,
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:40am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Yes and they thought the young woman was great, I couldn’t believe they did not do some homework. They did not realise they are alt left wing activists, they did not realise the gun shooting symbol was pointed at Seymour, they thought the haka was a ceremonial dance, didn’t realise that Ka Mate is a dance of war
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:48pm
    - Paulus
      
      Ka Mate is not just a Dance of War but a threat to Violence !
      
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      November 16, 2024 2:25pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  But if you read NZ legacy media the world is siding with the minority view.
  
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/11/15/treaty-principles-bill-debate-how-the-world-reacted/
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:41am
  - BananaLlama
    
    The UK having an opinion on this actually going to make me angry.
    I was going to ignore the cry bullies and their temper tantrums and just get on with life but this kind of hypocrisy from the UK left who will throw their own people into jail for protesting but start yapping at us about injustice is going to really piss me off.
    
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    November 16, 2024 9:03am
    - John Loveridge
      
      But you have there the notoriously Maorified TVNZ reporting on what woke media outlets overseas have said. What substance can you credit that with?
      
      13 1
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      November 16, 2024 9:58am
      - BananaLlama
        
        That they are siding with foreigners who oppress their own citizens in an attempt to oppress and deny the rights of ours.
        or in other words, foreign imperialists.
        
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        November 16, 2024 11:03am
- An Old Kiwi
  
  Have just spoken with some US rellies. They were highly amused by the Maori “dance” in our parliament they saw on their MSM news.
  They commented that such disrespectful behaviour would not have been allowed to happen in their Senate.
  
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  November 16, 2024 1:34pm
- Ra Henare
  
  For some light entertainment, I laid a complaint with BBC on their article on the Parliamentary fiasco. Yes news, but pointed out some factual errors and bias.
  
  Ie They didn’t acknowledge that 30% of ACT MPS are Maori. And that The Maori party is a racist party. ie you have to be a proper Maori according to William Fast Canoe Jackson. Ancestor of British Footballers.
  
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  November 16, 2024 2:34pm
Maggy Wassilieff

You live & you learn…

Who knew that See you Next Tuesday is code for a foul word that CaNT be uttered in Parliament?

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/don-brash-a-picture-paints-a-thousand-words
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November 16, 2024 8:25am
- Souvlaki
  
  It simply conveys to the world how truly primitive somethings REALLY are in New Zealand. Cowed into submission by none too subtle threats of violence!😕
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:35am
- pdm
  
  This 78 year old had to google it to get the inferred meaning.
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:38am
- David Garrett
  
  Maggy: Indeed…we older folk live and learn every day don’t we?
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:44am
- nathie
  
  Soooo … Waititi is also a misogynist? !!
  
  Put it this way, if one saying that phrase was right-leaning then no doubt the left would also claim that to be the case!
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:46am
- AitchW
  
  Waititi pulling a stunt that a 15 year old boy might try at school to prove to his mates just how cool and edgy he is.
  Beyond puerile and demonstrates just how little respect the Maori party has for the house.
  Their equally puerile supporters will love it, anyone with a mental age of over 15 will be repelled.
  What new childishness with they pull next week?
  When will the Speaker be able to deliver some real consequences?
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:10am
  - Paulus
    
    But Puerile is actually Latin for Boy (- Puer) as is suggested.
    So back to children.
    
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    November 16, 2024 2:27pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  No young people in your life, Maggy? That one’s been around for awhile.
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:18am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    We are all plain-speaking folks… and don’t use code to convey our messages.
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:57am
  - lifesgood
    
    The young people in my life are not foul mouthed.
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:47pm
- Ghost
  
  I expect that is why the speaker didn’t pick it up, few in their knew what it meant. probably thought, shit he’s actually going to turn up on Tuesday for a change.
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:32am
  - AitchW
    
    Am I the only one who remembers the outrage when Hosking said to (then) PM Hipkins at the end of their weekly Tuesday slot “see you next Tuesday”?
    It was an innocent remark picked up by the perpetually outraged left who were adamant that Hosking was calling him the c word.
    The difference here is that Waititi’s remark was out of context and, I believe, deliberately provocative.
    
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    November 16, 2024 9:37am
  - Flossie
    
    I’d be pretty sure the speaker did know what he potentially meant but had to take it at face value. Not to do so would be akin to objecting to someone humming dirty songs.
    
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    November 16, 2024 9:42am
  - pdm
    
    Nah he will be outside with the rabble Ghostie.
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:59pm
- Swifty
  
  You’d have a hard time convincing me that her performance ability WASN’T a reason Maipi-Clarke was picked by TPM in the first place.
  
  This isn’t the first time she has had a little song and dance in the House, in her short time there.
  
  She’s like an on-call All Blacks bench player, whom Waititi and Packer can bring on to do her little dog and pony show, sing a little song or screw up her face or stick her tongue out, whenever the Maori Party feel like stamping their feet over some issue.
  
  It’s a guaranteed viral moment for TPM every time.
  
  She’s young and nice looking, got a good voice, clearly well-versed in her waiata and haka etc – I think that’s the whole reason she was picked to go up against Mahuta in the Waikato – as a great impact player in Parliament.
  
  Well it can’t be her extensive career or achievements in social service, or charity or sports administration, foreign affairs or her business success could it?
  
  At 21, she was barely out of nappies – hadn’t yet done anything or achieved anything of note.
  
  Sit her down for an hour or two and grill her on her understanding and positions on our national economic malaise, our energy conundrums, her prescriptions for solving our educational or unemployment challenges, or how we should find out rapidly aging population etc and you’ll get either blank stares or word-salad drivel which is wide of the mark.
  
  I guarantee it.
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:54am
  - Swifty
    
    *fund our rapidly aging population…
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:18am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    That M.P. for Waikato-Hauraki; I sought her guidance on the administration of an Ahu Whenua Trust; just a minor matter about death certificates required.
    She could not be bothered to respond to my phone calls and my emails.
    I have questioned the wisdom of the beneficiaries of that Ahu Whenua Trust who all voted for her. Some of them were offended when I said that the you get the politicians you deserve.
    That “bint” is too lazy to set up an electorate office, fully funded by the mug taxpayers.
    “Go to the whitey M.P.’s office for any help required.”
    Ahu Whenua Trusts are set up under Te Ture Whenua 1993. They encourage the set up of Whanau Trusts that get away from that ridiculous fractionalisation of Maori blocks of land. In my case an Anu Whenua Trust has 14.3375 shares. Some owners have 0.0041 shares. The Trust generates $3600 per year in rent. So those beneficiaries are entitled to $1.02 per year in rent, but the postage to send an advice to each owner is $2.30.
    I said “ridiculous”.
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:35am
    - Jack5
      
      The trusts that Tauhei Notts mentions will likely be related to moves apparently afoot to try to make “Maori freehold” – Maori communally owned land – relevant as security for borrowing.
      
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      November 16, 2024 12:58pm
  - Paulus
    
    What makes you think she would care less
    – she is modern feminist Yuff and believes she is cleverer than most.
    After all she speaks Maori too, like some 2% of the population.
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:59am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    She seems to have been educated at Te Reo only schools.
    
    I hope for her sake that she is not another Kiri Allan, promoted too fast and well above her ability level, only to be discarded by her political “friends” when her personal life gets too complicated.
    
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    November 16, 2024 11:04am
    - Swifty
      
      I was thinking that same thing this morning!
      
      I think though it was being made Minister is what did it for Kiri, if she had just sailed on as a list MP with bugger all responsibilities she would likely have been fine.
      
      Maipi-Clarke will likely be sweet as while an MP in opposition, all theatrics and show pony stuff with little to no actual responsibilities nor pressure to perform.
      
      I mean who is going to go to her for detailed policy positions? Hell, the media don’t even require that of Waititi or Packer! Ask them for their economic policy and all you’ll get from them is ‘raise tax, raise benefits’ and for ‘the government to spend far, far more.’
      
      Yep, that’ll cure what ails us.
      
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      November 16, 2024 11:20am
      - pdm
        
        Kiri Allen was an electorate MP – at least initially anyway.
        
        East Coast I think.
        
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        November 16, 2024 5:16pm
      - Swifty
        
        Thanks pdm, she started as list (17-20) then won the east coast (20-23).
        
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        November 16, 2024 7:15pm
  - AitchW
    
    Or a haka.
    Is she, I wonder, related to someone senior in the Wapareira Trust?
    
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    November 16, 2024 2:11pm
- Yvette
  
  See you Next Tuesday
  Maggy, I wondered about that too and once it was confirmed the phrase can mean something else, it still took me longer than I should to figure out what it was.
  
  But as a considerable larger number of people may now know the meaning of the phrase, what does the Speaker do with it – ban it as being a possible way of calling another member the third most unacceptable word allowed to be broadcast – or ask Rawhiri to explain what he means by an otherwise irrelevant reference, of which his use may be readily misconstrued, thus educating a greater audience?
  
  The N-word is the least acceptable of all words tested, with 65% of those surveyed considering it totally unacceptable across all scenarios. The C-word (at 57%) is the second-equal least acceptable, along with a newly [2021] tested racial insult [C-M words] – there, look that up
  https://www.bsa.govt.nz/assets/Research-reports/20220301-BSA-Offensive-Language-report-FINAL.pdf.
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:55am
- cmm
  
  The word that May Not Be Uttered on KB either.
  
  The day you stop learning is your first day in the grave.
  
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  November 16, 2024 10:43am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Never a more prophetic statement made cmm 🙂
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:13pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  A picture indeed. Of children taking the piss.
  
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  November 16, 2024 4:43pm
Pineapple Lumps

Did anyone notice how different the legacy media’s coverage of the protests against the Treaty Principles bill has been than their coverage of the protest against mandates?

One was painted as violent, to be feared, influenced by unknown but subversive foreign influence, rivers of filth. No airtime given to state their position. The other promoted as a wonderful display of Māori unity and 100% coverage supportive of the activist position.

Where are the articles explaining why large numbers of NZers who are not racists have a problem with the racial separatist agenda that has been fueled over the last 50 years in this country?

And legacy media bleats about the hardships they are suffering whilst remaining blind to this being largely of their own making. It’s just a shame that they continue to poison impressionable hearts and minds with their belligerent toxicity.
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November 16, 2024 8:28am
- Philview
  
  If the Covid mandate protest had happened under a National Government those protestors would now be media heroes. The media would be demanding an apology and compensation.
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:33am
- AitchW
  
  Give the behaviour of the hikoi’s organisers in the house this week, I wonder what god awful behaviour we can expect on Tuesday when it arrives at parliament.
  Violence? Or just vandalism?
  We can be sure that the Maori party, the Greens and Labour will be there to welcome the hikoi. You can be equally sure that Willie Jackson and the leaders of the Maori party will be there to whip the hikoiers into elevated levels of frenzy.
  The media will breathlessly report every utterance from the hikoi supporters and lambast the government if it doesn’t risk life and limb to greet them.
  It will end badly.
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:19am
  - Ghost
    
    Have other maori hikoi used violence and vandalism at parliament? I can’t recall any
    
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    November 16, 2024 9:30am
    - AitchW
      
      Perhaps not, but this hikoi has a real edge to it. Will my prediction of violence and/or vandalism be proven correct? I hope not. Time will tell.
      As an aside, I wonder if the hikoiers are going to hikoi home after their visit to parliament and the after match function in Wellington?
      
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      November 16, 2024 9:48am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Well they are marching with weapons, I predict a very sad ending, I hope the police are right over this, and army is on stand bye
        
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        November 16, 2024 12:53pm
    - kowtow
      
      A viewing of the video of the violence in the police clearout of the covid protest shows an incredibly disproportionate number of “non Pakehas” involved in the violence against the police.
      
      ( I don’t believe they were part of the original anti mandate folk , I believe as the police said , they were unruly elements drawn to the location for whatever reason) .
      
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      November 16, 2024 10:49am
      - AitchW
        
        Gutless thugs looking for their chance to hide in the mob and throw bricks at cops.
        
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        November 16, 2024 12:01pm
  - DimChappie
    
    Yes, thousands of protesters including patched gang members whipped into an angry frenzy by Maori Party stirrers. Chance of trouble: high. I will not be walking through this demo.
    
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    November 16, 2024 9:35am
    - cmm
      
      “Maori Party stirrers”
      … and, worse, National Party enablers.
      
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      November 16, 2024 10:43am
    - Hollyfield
      
      I wonder if the media will lead an outcry about insurrection.
      
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      November 16, 2024 12:09pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        They love a good insurrection. As long as it’s their ideological mates pulling one.
        
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        November 16, 2024 4:44pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    and I can guarantee Debbie and Rawiri will be standing well back in the shadows acting as innocent as….
    
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    November 16, 2024 11:07am
  - Paulus
    
    The arrival of the Hikoi in Wellington may not be only Maori, but with the inclusion, as before of Rent a Crowd, who can incite violence via a Haka, and blame the Hikoi.
    
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    November 16, 2024 2:35pm
Philview

I saw a paywalled headline that a Dunedin lawyer has described the Treaty Principles Bill as being ‘Evil’. As Joe Biden would say the MSM and legal profession needs to dial down the temperature. If they start to frame something as evil then it legitimises all steps to stop it.
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November 16, 2024 8:28am
- NK
  
  I’m an Auckland lawyer. If I described it as necessary and worthy of debate, do you think I would get media coverage?
  
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  November 16, 2024 12:04pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  That woman has been a life long greenie activist
  
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  November 16, 2024 12:55pm
- Paulus
  
  It is the Legal Profession who have led often to the state of social and political unrest in all things Maori, against the interest of the other 85% of the population.
  
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  November 16, 2024 2:37pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Department Of Government Efficiency Identifies 535 Government Workers Who Haven’t Done Any Work For Years.
Get Elon and Vivek down to NZ now!

https://babylonbee.com/news/department-of-government-efficiency-identifies-535-government-workers-who-havent-done-any-work-for-years?
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November 16, 2024 8:29am
- artemisia
  
  Steve, I worked for a very big global company that cancelled all working from home for exactly that reason. WFH did become permitted again case by case, but the message had been clearly sent.
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:57am
Anthony Melchett

Kamala talking to Hitler on the phone.

Enjoy.

https://youtu.be/MWSRgPpYKrg?si=B8ISPDf0Qn3criJM
8 3
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November 16, 2024 8:29am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Poor Hitler. “Unburdened, YAH YAH YAH YAH!!!”
  
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  November 16, 2024 11:21am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

APPALLING: New Trump Appointee Has Zero Experience Being A Useless Government Bureaucrat.

https://babylonbee.com/news/appalling-new-trump-appointee-has-zero-experience-being-a-useless-government-bureaucrat?
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November 16, 2024 8:32am
PHC

Stop co-governance exposes Nationals position
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOyddq-mzsc
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November 16, 2024 8:38am
NeverMindTheBollocks

This is just ridiculous. Tarrant was a cell of one (and now he’s in a cell for one). There is absolutely no ground swell of support for him, his actions or his views. No one gives a rat’s arse who his lawyers were, or who the judges or Corrections officers were.

What a waste of court time. It’s also precedent-setting, in a closed justice kind of way.

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/533889/lawyers-set-to-represent-christchurch-mosque-attacker-granted-name-suppression
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November 16, 2024 8:38am
- Ghost
  
  Are you sure about that? I can think of one group of people who would threaten a person representing someone that killed Muslim’s, Im sure most people could. The fact that they need name suppression should be a concern
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:39am
- Benedict Yu
  
  No I disagree. There would be a real threat to lawyers representing Tarrant.
  
  You may recall that Tarrant was incorrectly granted a firearms licence. The two police officers who processed that licence application have lifetime name suppression.
  
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  November 16, 2024 10:02am
- Paulus
  
  Its still votes from those supporters of the Muslims in New Zealand not only in Christchurch.
  
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  November 16, 2024 2:39pm
Philview

This has probably been discussed but I read a British journalist for a right leaning newspaper is being investigated by the UK Police for sending a tweet and she hasn’t been told what the tweet was. Elon Musk is now backing her. It sounds like Musk will be a strong advocate for free speech in the new administration.
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November 16, 2024 8:41am
- peterwn
  
  And her newspaper ‘The Daily Telegraph’ (the UK one) is fully backing her (and the key article is not paywalled unlike most Telegraph articles). The cops picked on the wrong girl here. They told her she was ‘in trouble’ but refused to tell her what tweet had caused concern which is a cowardly act. Obviously the cops wanted to spoil her weekend as a ‘punishment’.
  The Telegraph is not as prestigious as it used to be, but still seems to carry a lot of clout.
  
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  November 16, 2024 10:51am
nathie

Solution for TVNZ!

Don’t sell it off … instead be directed to become right-leaning (instead of ~~neutral~~ left leaning).

Think of it as becoming NZ’s Fox News or Sky News Australia etc.

Then watch the TVNZ activists and far-left presenters and heads of departments resign “in disgust” (cool no need to spend $$$ on redundancies)!

Being “right”, NZ’ers will then get balanced and informed news, debating both sides of the argument (kind of like how Newstalk ZB offers perspectives from both sides).

Lefties melt-down and Righties are happy, finally. Bliss!
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November 16, 2024 8:41am
- Paulus
  
  TVNZ should be taught the word BALANCE, but to no avail as they could not spell it even.
  
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  November 16, 2024 2:41pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Would I have enjoyed my 2 years of Latin better if I had had it interwoven with Maori “history” and tikanga?

https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2024/11/15/professors-unique-shout-out-to-the-hikoi-mo-te-tiriti/

The Hīkoi mō Te Tiriti has received a surprising “shout out” from an expert in almost 3,000-year-old Roman society.
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November 16, 2024 8:45am
- Inandout
  
  maggy, I have that pursed mouth look when I have tasted lemon juice.
  
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  November 16, 2024 8:53am
- peterwn
  
  You mean translating this sort of stuff:
  Mittet hominēs ut agrōs vāstent.
  From ‘Latin for Beginners’ (1911).
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:24am
- Swifty
  
  I wonder if in her work the learned professor also draws parallels between Roman and Maori societies being martial in nature – with constant invasion and subjugation of their neighbours and displacement of them to seize their lands and resources?
  
  Then there’s the business of slave-taking of the survivors of these murderous raids and invasions.
  
  I wonder whether these get a mention – or is it only the aspects we regard in modern times as virtuous?
  
  I suspect we know the answer.
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:32am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The Maori warrior never developed the concept of a shield.
    
    So no chance of testudo formations, or even the Scottish schiltron.
    
    But the chink in the (pre-European) maori armour would always be their lack of sustainable agriculture…. and as they threw away the easiest source of nutrients (human dung), then their kumara fields would always become depleted.
    
    Romans manured their crop lands
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jpln.202300152#:~:text=Green%20manuring%20was%20a%20wide,2%3B%20Irwin%2C%202021).
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:55pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Certainly, only one of the two mastered road building
    
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    November 16, 2024 3:46pm
- Swifty
  
  Maggy, did you know that Dirty Harry also spoke Latin?
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:33am
  - Swifty
    
    PERGE SCELUS MIHI DIEM PERFICIAS
    
    (Proceed, varlet, and let the day be rendered perfect for my benefit.)
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:51pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  I would bet that a Roman Testudo could hammer the hell out of a tribe of Maori Warriors.
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:43am
  - Mike
    
    There is an amusing fantasy novel pitting Napoleon against Te Rauparaha:
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2015430.Playing_Waterloo
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:50am
- John Loveridge
  
  I’ve been studying Latin part time for two years through the Open University. I can’t see any space in there for a Maori lens. These people are insufferable.
  
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  November 16, 2024 10:03am
  - kowtow
    
    Ita vero.
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:39am
  - Paulus
    
    I did many years ago learn Latin for over 7 years in UK, and cannot remember any Maori in it, even now.
    
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    November 16, 2024 2:45pm
greenfinger

So hilarious that some people thinks a hikoi is gonna make a difference. As if a march would change the public’s view about Māoris. I have to say it makes most people think less, much less of them. Privileges make people go soft and feel entitled, with every successive generation. How do you explain why more and more people walk into stores and decide they don’t have to pay for things they walk out from the store with? Take that!
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November 16, 2024 8:50am
- Ghost
  
  Does it make people think much less of maori? Or are people mature enough to know it is such a small percentage of Māori and does not in anyway represent maori
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:35am
  - kowtow
    
    The media certainly aren’t in that “mature” cohort .
    
    They give the fake news impression that all of Maoridom is involved , which they aren’t .
    
    And now we’re getting the Deep Statist ex Nats coming out from under their rocks telling us the war drums are sounding.
    
    How silly , but threatening , intimidating and anti democratic!
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:39am
    - Burtland
      
      when in doubt play the fear card
      
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      November 16, 2024 8:53pm
  - Dougal10
    
    Nah I now thing less of them
    
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    November 16, 2024 4:26pm
- Prince
  
  IO would have grudging respect if they marched.
  They don’t.
  They are bussed to a convenient spot, disembark, walf 100 metres, then back on the buses.
  TV Cameras ignore the buses.
  If this was a right-wing event, the media focus would be on the buses, who was funding it, who was organising, some shadowy right-wing multi-national collection of rich pricks etc etc.
  The contrast in media reporting these events is extreme.
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:54am
  - artemisia
    
    Marching a little bit for the cameras makes complete sense from their POV.
    
    The first little march I saw in the media was Kawakawa. Most prominent – the number and size of moobs.
    
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    November 16, 2024 11:17am
  - OlderChas
    
    You missed a bit of the process Prince. Bussed to a convenient spot, disembark, dress up in pre-colonisation outfits, posture and pose with (mostly) offensive weapons and poke their tongues out when the camera is on them, walk 100 metres then back on the buses. There – fixed it for you.
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:33pm
    - Dougal10
      
      How do the busses get through the kfc drive through.
      
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      November 16, 2024 4:28pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    It’s a no effort required hikoi – can’t imagine what Whina would think of the laziness
    
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    November 16, 2024 12:43pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Not to mention the volumes of fossil fuels being consumed along the way
    
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    November 16, 2024 3:48pm
- cmm
  
  I think it has a potential to change Maori views of Maori for the benefit of the Maori elite (the views of the rest are irrelevant).
  
  Making Maori more militant is going to make it more likely that they switch to the Maori roll and vote for TPM.
  
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  November 16, 2024 10:48am
  - cmm
    
    At the last election, just over half of Maori were on the Maori roll. Since then the Maori roll has grown substantially. Around 55% of the registrations in the last 2 years were on the Maori roll.
    
    We’ll see if increasing division causes this number to grow,
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:58am
    - Dougal10
      
      Which means the overhang could disappear?
      
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      November 16, 2024 4:30pm
Michael Sommerville

We need a D Trump type person here.

Having read about the Treaty Principles Bill and seen the appalling reporting on it and the TVNZ appointee who has joined the hikoi, it is obvious to me that the public service in this country don’t appreciate that the common man wants a change in this democracy, and they are not delivering it.

All the Treaty BS should not be the focus of this country. We should be focused on getting ourselves out of the brown stuff that Jacinda, Grant and Chippy have left us with.

We need someone with a spine! Our present PM is not displaying that characteristic. Winston is remarkably absent. David is making the right noises but the message is not getting through.
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November 16, 2024 9:00am
Damocles11

Sad to hear that those of us of European descent apparently have ‘no culture’.
William Shakespeare, Charles Dickens, Parliamentary democracy, human rights, equality, the rule of law, rugby, cricket, philosophy, football, pasta, Leonardo da Vinci…..I could go on forever.
Against that we get, for the umpteenth time, drumroll please…..’the Haka’. “Oooeerrr….look at our amazing culture, you have no culture”.
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November 16, 2024 9:14am
- BananaLlama
  
  Those same bone heads will say Europeans have no culture while clapping like seals at protests inside a parliament building. I want National to grow a spine, stand up for New Zealanders and just stop being so cowardly and weak. They have the loudest voice in the room but let the smallest take all the hits for them.
  It might have been a good strategy for them at the start but TPM and their international supporters have taken this too far and i expect National and their supporters to start showing some backbone.
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:46am
- Eastlander
  
  I have no wish to disparage maori culture or attempt to weigh the relative merits of any cultures. But if they insist on forcing the issue I’ll say that almost any culture is far superior to the one that occupied this country for 800 years and made nothing in that time but ashes and middens filled with gnawed human bones.
  
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  November 16, 2024 1:06pm
- Paulus
  
  The Haka pervades Violence.
  
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  November 16, 2024 2:48pm
Benedict Yu

Matt Walsh on the Daily Wire covering the Parliament tantrum here. Live now.

https://youtu.be/OpQQe2Fbhtk?si=B02uvyd1hd8FsDU0
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November 16, 2024 9:18am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is quite a lengthy and good coverage.
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:34am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    The video is 58minutes 58 seconds. Start it at 5m 30secs and if it doesn’t bring a smile to your face, then you have no humour. It is almost like Scott Joplin run amok.
    
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    November 16, 2024 10:55am
    - Cantabrian
      
      Yes, its only necesssary to watch the first 20 minutes to see what Walsh has to say about New Zealand politics.
      
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      November 16, 2024 11:04am
- Bridgenag
  
  Absolutely fabulous………. A must see for all kids particularly. Such a good summary.
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:41am
- Souvlaki
  
  A MUST watch clip imo.
  It would be great if Luxon & his colleagues took the time to view history objectively, instead of through rose tinted lens.
  
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  November 16, 2024 9:44am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Have sent it to the mob meant to be governing us and protecting our rights // Lucky some people forget to remove email addresses on their forwarded emails
    
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    November 16, 2024 9:56am
- NZer In Exile
  
  I can see Walsh being a great leader one day. He’s always on the money.
  
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  November 16, 2024 4:54pm
Damocles11

‘Maori culture’ seems to be about getting all hyped up, working yourself into a frenzy, and making a spectacle of yourself. The more bombastic, furious, and completely over the top the rhetorical language, the better. The more aggressive and prolonged the Haka, the better. It’s about shouting, yelling, making aggressive noises, gurning your face to the maximum possible extent. All of this frenzy and furore is cheered on as some kind of achievement, some impressive act on par with doing some work or making some positive contribution. Calmly dealing with a situation in a level-headed way and responding in a reasonable though assertive way is not in the playbook. It is all about the most aggressive response possible. The entire mindset drips with latent violence, which no doubt explodes into real violence all too often.
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November 16, 2024 9:35am
- John Loveridge
  
  It’s about intimidating the opposition into submission. It’s the antithesis of civilisation.
  
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  November 16, 2024 10:06am
- cmm
  
  Empty vessels make the most noise.
  
  Having now lived for 30 years in Africa and 32 years in NZ, I have the luxury of comparing African culture to Maori culture.
  
  The African culture I experienced was far richer than Maori culture. African culture is also technically far superior – though some of that was probably due to infusion of technology from Arabs, Portuguese etc.
  
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  November 16, 2024 11:09am
- Burtland
  
  surprising te rauparaha’s haka is even tolerated by the woke
  – he was a genocidal monster
  
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  November 16, 2024 11:10am
  - AitchW
    
    The “noble savage” paradigm perhaps?
    
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    November 16, 2024 2:17pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Apart from the “noble” bit
      
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      November 16, 2024 3:49pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  “Maori culture” is way too broader sweep in my opinion. It’s more about idiot lefty poser enablers and part Maori racial activist grifters.
  
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  November 16, 2024 4:56pm
DimChappie

[Mod – deleted]Jenny Shipley says the Treaty Principles Bill risks civil war. Someone please lock her up for inciting violence as thousands of protesters including gang members gather at Parliament.

“I would fight against it,’; the former PM says of the Treaty Principles Bill.
“Maori have every reason to fight against it” (4:40 on the tape)

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018964425/dame-jenny-shipley-on-treaty-principles-bill
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November 16, 2024 9:40am
- leoj
  
  Which merely proves that the National Party is full of whimps.
  
  18 3
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  November 16, 2024 10:11am
  - Mike
    
    Busy whimpering?
    
    4 11
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    November 16, 2024 10:55am
  - David Garrett
    
    Leog: Jenny Shipley was apparently a very good swimmer in her youth…not much chop as a politician; even worse as a company director. Very lucky not to have gone to jail
    
    28 0
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    November 16, 2024 10:57am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Not much chop as a teacher either.
      
      8 0
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      November 16, 2024 12:40pm
- MCōs
  
  Have any leaders past or present of significant NZ political parties other than Act expressed support for this bill?
  
  4 5
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  November 16, 2024 10:33am
  - Mike
    
    Of course not. The bipartisan consensus on this endures, as on most other topics.
    
    4 10
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    November 16, 2024 10:53am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      More like an agreement between idiots and cowards.
      
      5 2
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      November 16, 2024 4:58pm
  - Cassandra
    
    Don Brash. And Winston Peters wants to remove Principles from all NZ law.
    
    7 0
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    November 16, 2024 11:04am
    - kowtow
      
      And just what has Winston First done to date .
      
      9 2
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      November 16, 2024 11:44am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Yes and the government has begun removing them, do keep up
      
      3 6
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      November 16, 2024 12:58pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “keep up” is a supercilious and arrogant refrain. It is usually used on communist blogs but I see that you have caught the bug.
        
        How many Acts of Parliament have so far been amended to remove any requirement to give effect to the Treaty? In 13 months?
        
        The practice of te ao Maori in Government is more embedded now in government agencies than it was 12 months ago.
        
        The Ministry for the Environment is recruiting for a Pou Pūkenga to advise the Ministry on upholding the Treaty. This position pays an annual salary of betwen $300k and $400k.
        
        I could give you 50 other examples if I could be bothered.
        
        https://www.seek.co.nz/job/80205016?type=standout&ref=search-standalone#sol=c2e8c796f9821110b00c19a829cba8ecfd6a8249
        
        11 3
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        November 16, 2024 2:58pm
    - Michael Sommerville
      
      Winston is true to form. Throws barbs from the sidelines but offers no solutions. He says there are no principles but what is he doing to stop the rot?
      
      12 0
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      November 16, 2024 1:52pm
      - Ghost
        
        Carrying out the agreement they made with national? Page 10 equal citizenship. https://assets.nationbuilder.com/nzfirst/pages/4462/attachments/original/1700784896/National___NZF_Coalition_Agreement_signed_-_24_Nov_2023.pdf?1700784896
        
        https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/06/treaty-provisions-set-to-be-scrapped-from-corrections-amendment-bill/
        
        https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/05/27/govt-moves-to-replace-or-repeal-treaty-principles-clauses-from-laws/
        
        https://www.scribd.com/document/778721331/Scope-of-Treaty-of-Waitangi-clause-review
        
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        November 16, 2024 1:55pm
- cmm
  
  Jenny Shipley had the opportunity to deflate this balloon back in the 1990s.
  
  She didn’t.
  Now she should STFU.
  
  19 0
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  November 16, 2024 11:10am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Jenny and Doug… proven incapable as Company Directors..
    
    https://www.downtoearth.kiwi/post/the-stunning-failure-of-nz-ministers-who-became-company-directors-after-leaving-parliament-and-a-rea
    
    How did they ever get to be in charge of our country?
    
    16 0
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    November 16, 2024 11:17am
- kiwi_chileno
  
  National is wheeling out the zombies – Shipley, Finlayson (who makes a fine living from the Treaty grievance industry)….
  
  Luxon – a shiver looking for a spine to run up – has aligned National with racists and ethno-kleptocrats. He has fully revealed himself to be an enemy of secular liberalism and democracy.
  
  19 2
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  November 16, 2024 12:02pm
  - Burtland
    
    Bolgers missing – they must be holding him back like Jimmy Carter
    
    2 0
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    November 16, 2024 9:08pm
leoj

1) To Chris Finlayson: Who gives a rat’s arse what the rest of the world thinks.

2) Govt is put in place by the PEOPLE so why can’t the PEOPLE have a referendum?

Why are all the parties, except ACT, afraid?
29 4
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November 16, 2024 10:10am
- cmm
  
  The rest of the world probably can’t believe that we don’t have one man one vote.
  
  12 4
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  November 16, 2024 11:12am
  - Mike
    
    It is true that some date the beginning of the decline of western civilization to women’s suffrage, but I have seldom seen this articulated on Kiwiblog.
    
    5 17
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    November 16, 2024 11:18am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      “Some say”…
      
      Really convincing stuff right there.
      
      4 2
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      November 16, 2024 5:02pm
    - cmm
      
      [Mod – please don’t go down that path]
      
      That is not what I am saying at all and you know it.
      
      Before the introduction of universal male suffrage, you had to own property to get the vote. Maori, rightfully moaned that this discriminated based on the fact that Maori tended not to be individual land owners.
      
      With the introduction of universal male suffrage, there was no discrimination based on land ownership. Therefore the rationale for the Maori roll no longer existed.
      
      This has absolutely nothing to do with women getting the vote.
      
      4 1
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      November 16, 2024 5:22pm
  - kowtow
    
    Luxon made a very big play on the campaign trail of that phrase “one man, one vote” . IIRC he even used it at Waitangi and for that I admired him and considered him to have some bottle .
    
    But having used it to hoodwink the voting public to accept him and put him in office as a proponent of equality , he’s retreated very much from the principles behind that very simple phrase .
    
    As such I consider him to be a charlatan.
    
    7 0
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    November 16, 2024 3:34pm
    - cmm
      
      Yup, I wonder whether this has done National massive harm going forwards.
      
      I suspect that both Act and Winston First can turn this to their advantage.
      
      3 0
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      November 16, 2024 5:24pm
- kiwi_chileno
  
  Why the politicians don’t want a referendum: they fear the result; arrogance (they know best); contempt (they think citizens are ignorant yokels who can’t – and shouldn’t – decide major constitutional and national identity matters (and the Treaty ‘principles’ are those); and NZ has a defective democracy with an Executive dictatorship (the dominance of PM and Cabinet) and a lack of direct democracy.
  
  I suggest you force the issue – start a petition and collect the signatures for a Citizens Initiated Referendum https://www.parliament.nz/en/get-involved/have-your-say/seek-a-referendum/
  
  Meanwhile, since 2021, Chileans have voted 4 times on a new Constitution – twice to elect representatives for a convention to draft the text and twice in referendum to approve or reject the text.
  
  6 1
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  November 16, 2024 2:48pm
Chuck Bird

Our taxes are paying for UNRWA, a terrorist organisation.

“A terrorist posing as a humanitarian worker under the United Nations emblem kidnapped [my son].”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s78ZOx1Ly4k
15 2
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November 16, 2024 10:10am
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360488195/meth-dealer-lucky-avoid-jail-asks-go-home-look-after-animals
I think meth dealers should get a death sentence, not home detention.
14 3
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November 16, 2024 10:30am
- Burtland
  
  more discounts than PacNSave – they need to put the dudges in charge of groceries
  
  When it came to sentencing in , the Crown sought a starting point of about eight years. Judge Bridget Mackintosh said an appropriate starting point was seven years.
  
  Hubbard was given a 25% discount for her guilty plea, and a 15% discount for her deprived upbringing and matters covered in a cultural report, a 15% discount for rehabilitation she had undertaken since being charged, and a 10% discount for the impact imprisonment would have on her four children.
  
  That brought the sentence down from 84 months to 29 months. An uplift of two months was then made for her previous offending, but a discount of seven months was made for the time she had been on bail.
  
  That brought the sentence down to 24 months jail, meaning Hubbard, who was pregnant at sentencing, became eligible for home detention and she was sentenced to 12 months home detention.
  
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  November 16, 2024 11:18am
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    Sorry Burtland and Moderator, reported in error, fat fingers.
    
    [Mod – don’t worry about it]
    
    2 0
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    November 16, 2024 1:28pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    What makes me think Judge Macintosh started with Home D as the outcome and worked backward from there?
    
    “An uplift of two months was then made for her previous offending”
    
    If an uplift of three months had been made then the sentence would have been 25 months jail, which could not have been transmuted to Home D.
    
    Judge McIntosh also allowed a 10% discount for the pregnant Hubbard’s 4 children. A simple moment’s reflection would surface the thought that as a meth dealer, Hubbard has no respect for anyone else’s children and therefore likely none for her own. Frankly, Judge MacIntosh’s duty of care to Hubbard’s children was in my view to triple the sentence so that her children are adults before their mother re-emerges into society.
    
    6 0
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    November 16, 2024 4:00pm
  - rouppe
    
    How do you get a discount for being on bail?
    
    You’re out, still at home, roaming free.
    
    6 0
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    November 16, 2024 5:29pm
- Mike
  
  I think methamphetamine should be legalized a regulated as is done so successfully with alcohol, pokie machines and many other things people choose to do for themselves with minimal interference from nanny state.
  
  1 18
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  November 16, 2024 12:52pm
  - Inandout
    
    Mike, wake up mate.
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-methamphetamine-opioids-drug-crisis/
    
    7 3
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    November 16, 2024 2:15pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Alcohol is legal because it is widely used. Making it illegal is impossible. As we saw for 9 years in the USA. It gives most users happiness but causes severe harm in a minority.
    
    Cannabis, maybe. Although it seems to damage many people used to excess.
    
    Crystal methamphetamine causes people to go insane. So, no.
    
    10 2
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    November 16, 2024 3:09pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    If that’s the quality of your thinking then I’d suggest you are better off just trolling.
    
    5 2
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    November 16, 2024 4:05pm
  - Burtland
    
    it might as well be legal – if you do enough crime you only get home detention
    
    5 0
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    November 16, 2024 4:36pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Gosh so clever and so thought provoking Mike. Clap.
    
    5 0
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    November 16, 2024 5:04pm
I remember when

Another b..sh.t yellow card helps Ireland beat Argentina!

When is this epidemic going to end?
8 3
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November 16, 2024 11:07am
Mod88

Ross Meurant in Breaking Views this morning concerning the events in Parliament this week. A very interesting read indeed.

https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/11/ross-meurant-history-can-be-bitch-once.html#more
6 2
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November 16, 2024 11:32am
- Mike
  
  Gosh. Thanks for that trip back into 1980s foaming at the mouth.
  
  1 18
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  November 16, 2024 12:48pm
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    Is that worse than the 2024 foaming at the mouth we witnessed in parliament on Thursday Mike ?
    
    17 1
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    November 16, 2024 1:37pm
    - Mike
      
      About even.
      
      3 7
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      November 16, 2024 2:46pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I hadn’t realised the Harariwa whanau had had such control at Carrington Hospital.
    
    “The group at Carrington Hospital now controls a Maori ward. Access to that ward is only on the authority of Titewhai Harawira—even the doctors must get Harawira’s permission before they enter the ward. I say that that is an outrage—an outrage that has happened only under the Labour Government, and that is happening at this moment. The group has become so powerful that a hospital superintendent spoke out publicly about their actions earlier this year. He was not exaggerating about the group’s influence, because, unfortunately, when the issue was forced again last month it was Dr Radcliffe, the hospital superintendent—not the radical social workers—who was put off the hospital staff.
    
    For Maori, by Maori…at the end of a fist.
    
    12 1
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    November 16, 2024 3:45pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      The convict Titewhai Harawira? Extraordinary that she could maintain that level of control at Carrington, of all places.
      
      I don’t say this sort of thing often, but the country is better off without her.
      
      “In the late 1980s, she established the Whare Paia mental health unit for Māori at Carrington Hospital; in 1989, she was jailed for nine months for assaulting a patient, with four other staff members also convicted, including her daughter and son. Harawira claimed that that the victim had sexually assaulted a staff member; however, the sentencing judge called the attacks “an arrogant and frightening abuse of authority and power”, and noted that Harawira should have used her authority to prevent the assault.” – Wikipedia
      
      8 0
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      November 16, 2024 4:06pm
  - Swifty
    
    Mike, if reading these things upsets you so, please don’t read them.
    
    You must look after yourself.
    
    6 0
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    November 16, 2024 4:31pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Lefties never froth at the mouth or go berserk.
    
    4 0
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    November 16, 2024 5:05pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  That is an interesting read – the activists being trained by foreign powers in this article have well and truely handed the batten on to their children.
  
  We are reaping today the seeds they sowed in Ross’s time.
  
  But milky sitting in the Marxist pot is still claiming the temperature is tepid. You’ll be having a mērē old time in the end!
  
  7 1
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  November 16, 2024 4:10pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Alvin Bragg’s witch hunt has backfired in the worst way.
Dudge Merchan could even say that “being president is equivalent to community service.”

https://unmuzzlednews.com/trumps-impeachment-lawyer-revealed-the-worst-nightmare-alvin-bragg-faced-over-his-witch-hunt/?
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November 16, 2024 11:42am
Swifty

Shipley says the Treaty Principles Bill invites civil war.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/533944/treaty-principles-bill-inviting-civil-war-jenny-shipley-says

Yep, just like women dressing sexily invites rape, and walking down Queen St in Auckland early in the morning invites bashing, and leaving your car unlocked invites it getting stolen.

So Shipley is either saying that some Maori can’t control themselves and will resort to violence when they won’t get their way (that’s very racist of her) or that this is a great opportunity to blame the victim.

Either way, nice one Shipley.

//
25 1
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November 16, 2024 12:04pm
NK

Three days and nothing on this blog about the disgraceful behaviour from Maori radicals and extremists in Parliament during this week. Indeed, nothing on the first reading of the Bill at all.
6 15
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November 16, 2024 12:20pm
- Mike
  
  Perhaps you could offer DPF a guest post on the topic, if you feel that the subject has not already been ventilated (hyperventilated?) enough in the comment threads.
  
  3 17
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  November 16, 2024 12:43pm
- Bridgenag
  
  Have you thought about changing your meds perhaps
  
  12 5
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  November 16, 2024 12:54pm
- kevn
  
  NK… Here you are. International coverage. Nice work in promoting NZ as?
  https://x.com/TheRedbaiter/status/1857611048662213023
  https://notthebee.com/article/maori-party-in-new-zealand-rips-equal-rights-bill-shuts-down-parliament-with-haka-dance
  
  3 1
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  November 16, 2024 5:48pm
- Ghost
  
  What do you mean nothing on this blog? This blog has had constant conversations going on about it since day one..
  
  5 2
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  November 16, 2024 5:53pm
NothingLeft

Germany man has home raided and is arrested people for calling a politician an idiot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehD7LNW_-rE

Germany’s government has regressed into repressive authoritarianism. Just as other left-wing govts in the west (UK!!!) are doing. Freedom and democracy had a good run, but seems they are now coming to an end in the west.
10 1
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November 16, 2024 12:38pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Soon you won’t be able to burp or fart in case it offends someone.
  
  7 1
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  November 16, 2024 1:58pm
Swifty

Haka on the motorway!

Well, the Maori Party can hardly complain about it – they started it!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/traffic-disruption-warning-as-destiny-church-convoy-travels-on-sh1-to-auckland-domain/Q44CBBJX4ZFVBEPUZXSMJXGFZE/

FFS – more theatre, just what we need.
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November 16, 2024 12:49pm
- Ghost
  
  Im surprised there isn’t post after post complaining about Brian shutting down the motorway…….
  
  10 4
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  November 16, 2024 1:53pm
Hugh Jarse

Interesting that the carkoi was not headlined to create mayhem on the roads in the Nz Herald but Tamaki’s convoy is. More media bias.
27 2
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November 16, 2024 1:21pm
- kowtow
  
  Tamaki is the wrong sort of Maori .
  
  Tells you all you need to know about the extreme left wing bias of our msm .
  
  22 1
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  November 16, 2024 2:59pm
- Burtland
  
  two tier policing again
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/destiny-church-highway-convoy-police-furious-at-brian-tamaki-organised-groups-reckless-unlawful-irresponsible-conduct/RIAUARLAAJGXJJY4WXKHPUXQ3Y/
  
  6 1
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  November 16, 2024 9:28pm
Quail

Moderators,
Have had several posts apparently disappeared so would like to know your policy.
(1) Are there some subjects that contributors have to avoid?
(2) If so what are they eg perhaps MMP ?
(3)Is it policy not to acknowledge undesirable posts to this blog?
This is your blog and you are entitled to manage it,
However your policy would be useful?
Thanks

[Mod – I’ve just looked in trash and spam and can find no posts from you, so not sure what is happening]
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November 16, 2024 1:43pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  I’m guessing skeleton mod staff in weekends so not disappeared but still on the conveyor belt awaiting popping out the other end.
  
  6 1
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  November 16, 2024 5:08pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360489235/can-razors-all-blacks-snap-losing-streak-against-les-blues-paris
Typical “Stuff” stuff-up !
It is “Les Bleus”, not “Les Blues”.
How old are these “Stuff” writers ? 12 ?
13 2
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November 16, 2024 4:40pm
- greybeard
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360489331/emergency-services-search-man-missing-manawatu-river
  Here is another one!
  What is a “wear”?
  “The man got into trouble in the wear near Ahimate Park in Palmerston North, police said in a statement.”
  
  8 1
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  November 16, 2024 4:44pm
  - graham
    
    For people whose career is WRITING … that’s awful.
    
    Maybe time to concentrate a little more on English and a little less on Maori?
    
    10 1
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    November 16, 2024 6:44pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Brian Tamaki is a naughty boy.
Reckless and unlawful and irresponsible.
Other groups can have a motorbike ride, but not Destiny.
“Authorities say they are now looking to take enforcement action after those involved got on to the Auckland motorway network on foot – something they were not made aware of beforehand.”
Not passing the sniff test here – it stinks. The Police would not lie would they?
I am not a man of faith but I do support Brian Tamaki on this. He and his followers have every right to protest. Don’t like it? North Korea or Palestine are nice places.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/destiny-church-highway-convoy-police-furious-at-brian-tamaki-organised-group-s-reckless-unlawful-irresponsible-conduct/ar-AA1ubbMt?
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November 16, 2024 7:04pm
nathie

Visiting family in Manawatu: first-hand report on the hīkoi gathering at Palmerston North’s “The Square” this evening (7pm)!

*Many hīkoi protestors (hundreds? Low thousands?) gathered and wandering about. Flags flying etc. Seems to be a family affair.

*Fairly substantial Police presence in The Square. Police appear to be at ease (i.e. no trouble).

*Traffic management and orange road cones blocking off access to the Council building road/area for some reason.

*Cars galore eg many vans parked up (with the usual flags on their sides), people movers aplenty, protester vehicles parked up in the Council’s event parking field nearby … so definitely a ka-koi for sure!

*Cool southerly and 13 degrees, protesters definitely keeping warm wearing jackets (oil based products of course so no presumably hīkoi protester concerns about “climate change”).

*Green Party may be devastated to learn not a single bike was spotted as a means of travel by the hīkoi protesters! Go the Ka-koi and max CO2 emissions!
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November 16, 2024 7:39pm
DimChappie

Organisers of the protest Hikoi don’t plan to stay very long at Parliament, according to the latest schedule. The plan is to leave at 230pm. What a shame, I was looking forward to a tent city on the lawn.

Tues Nov 19

6am: Convoy from Takapuwahia Marae in Porirua to Waitangi Park Wellington.

9am: Hikoi fromj Waitangi Park to Parliament

12noon Activation at Parliament

230pm: Leave Parliament back to Waitangi Park

4pm: Concert, farewell and karakia in the park.

Note for Wellington commuters: Traffic jams can be expected on Tuesday at 6am as the main hikoi leaves Porirua toward Wellington. There is another group planning to leave from Macewan Park on Petone esplanade at 4am. The highway into Wellington is likely to be jammed during rush hour with walkers and slow vehicles.
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November 16, 2024 8:42pm

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