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November 14, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 14 November 2024

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Yvette

Treaty
In response to a question from The Platform’s Sean Plunket, Christopher Luxon said about the Treaty Principles Bill “there isn’t anything I like.” … “It’s a very simplistic interpretation of the Treaty of Waitangi which has served us incredibly well and to simplify it down to this is a disservice to the Treaty of Waitangi.”  https://peterallanwilliams.substack.com/p/luxon-misses-the-mark

2 words
For decades, for over one and a half centuries the Treaty has been simplistically reduced to two words –
the difference between rangatiratanga and kawanatanga?
In the Māori version of the Treaty, Māori give the Crown ‘kawanatanga katoa’ – complete governorship. And they are guaranteed tino rangatiratanga – the unqualified exercise of chieftainship over their lands, dwelling places, and all other possessions. These different promises don’t sit alongside each other easily. – Google

3
The three “P’s”, as they are often referred to, are the principles of partnership, participation and protection. These underpin the relationship between the Government and Māori under the Treaty of Waitangi.

2
And just when I thought Jacinda would not be able to put the whole Treaty co-governance thing into a bumper sticker, they came up with mahi tahi – fantastic

1
Complaint about Professional Examination in Law — In Ellis v R the Supreme Court affirmed the place of tikanga in New Zealand law. The complaint is essentially a sustained criticism of this

2
Kotahitanga (unity) and mokopuna (children and young people)
the legacy of the late Maori King and the core of the current Hīkoi mo te Tiriti

and so on … and on
See, Christopher? – say no mour
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November 14, 2024 8:02am
- lastmanstanding
  
  If we had people of the calibre The Donald is picking for his Cabinet we wouldnt have this problem.
  We have a swamp in both Central and Local Government infested by Woke Racist Elites who govern for themselves their mates and the minority.
  As the US election had shown that is 20th century governance.
  21st century governance is governing for all citizens regardless. Our lot need to wake up and learn that.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:17am
  - Cassandra
    
    The new Sec Def seems remarkably unqualified for such a role. Let’s hope the Deputy knows how to run a huge organisation.
    
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    November 14, 2024 9:39am
    - Yvette
      
      Breaking news –
      Trump Chooses Tulsi Gabbard for Director of National Intelligence
      
      Gabbard, a former congresswoman who left the Democratic Party, would hold a top job in the administration, overseeing 18 spy agencies.
      
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      November 14, 2024 9:46am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Luxons disingenuous comments about the adequacy of the hitherto complicated and expensive TOW consideration and interpretation process falls over as soon as Labour takes power again.
        
        We all saw what “open interpretation” of the TOW principals achieved during Labour’s last term…..most prominent was the swelling of the Maori King Familys’ bank accounts.
        
        It’s a shame Sean Plunkett isn’t a bit smarter, he did ask the prime minister which of the new principals he didn’t support (clever) but failed to follow up by asking the prime minister if he supported Labour’s abuse of TOW principals (partnership) during their last term.
        
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        November 14, 2024 12:03pm
    - herb1
      
      The current Sec Defs qualifications don’t seem to have helped the Afghanistan withdrawal , nor the the situations in Ukraine and the Middle East. Thinking that DEI and climate issues are more important than having the fittest , strongest well trained and best equipped fighting force may just be a good reason to pick someone with decades of military experience as leader.
      As far as running a huge department goes , he’ll have numerous advisers to sort that for him
      
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      November 14, 2024 10:11am
    - Geoff1
      
      Cassanda – What do you base that on?
      Pete Hegsethis a graduate of Princeton University, and has a Graduate Degree from Harvard University. He has 20 years of military service did tours in Guantanamo Bay, Iraq, and Afghanistan. For his actions on the battlefield, he was decorated with two Bronze Stars, as well as a Combat Infantryman’s Badge,”
      
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      November 14, 2024 10:21am
      - Cassandra
        
        He rose to National Guard captain, that’s what I base it on, and my experience at Defence HQ. He’s a Fox presenter who has never run a big organisation. Alexander’s mule.
        
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        November 14, 2024 11:10am
    - JimBobJoe
      
      So did a former NZ Defense Force Head knowing for spending his time golfing know how to run a big organisation?
      
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      November 14, 2024 11:24am
    - kowtow
      
      Yeah , as it worked out so well with the likes of such luminaries as McNamara , Cheney and Rumsfeld. ( not)
      
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      November 14, 2024 11:35am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      I mean, sure Peter Hegseth is an Ivy Leaguer with multiple tours who spent over 20 years in military service before becoming a veteran’s advocate.
      
      But he didn’t work for Raytheon and hire drag queens for recruitment. So is he really qualified?
      
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      November 14, 2024 11:35am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      “He’s got 20 years in service. Afghanistan, Iraq. Two bronze stars. Princeton, Harvard. Yeah, he’s on TV, but so are the rest of us.”
      
      I won’t be subscribing to CNN just because they have a single Rightie there, but Scott Jennings has been a breath of fresh air. In this case he supplied not just the snark above but a list of Pentagon clusterfucks of recent years.
      
      One of the biggies he didn’t mention was The Afghanistan Papers, published in 2019 by the WaPo (after three years and two lawsuits against the DoD) to get the SIGAR (Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction) reports, a series of massive internal investigations done from 2008-2015 to investigate waste and fraud in the war zone. But the agency ended up going much further than that with a project called “Lessons Learned” that ran through 2015 and which detailed the failures of the US in that country and the lies that had been told to President’s Bush and Obama about the progress being made in Afghanistan and that the war was still worth fighting.
      
      Back to Jennings:
      I’ve had just about enough of the so-called insiders running the Defence Department
      
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      November 14, 2024 12:17pm
    - Manu-Rau
      
      Yet you were quite happy to have a National Guard NCO who lied about his (lack of) frontline service as VP?
      
      Okay, Princess.
      
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      November 14, 2024 12:25pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    “If we had people of the calibre…”
    
    We do have such people. The problem is that they won’t be asked, or they don’t want to work with a Marxist public service or low vision government.
    
    Professor Des Gorman was ignored by the covid regime and instead was snapped up by Singapore and others.
    
    Rob Fyfe gave his services to help get masks etc.
    He asked Robertson for $80 million to pay for a shipment and was told “We don’t operate like that around here”
    
    Capable people need not apply.
    
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    November 14, 2024 9:53am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    Matt Gaetz as AG is outlandishly weird though!
    
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    November 14, 2024 12:39pm
NK

The Treaty Principles Bill says 1) the Crown has the right to govern, 2) New Zealanders’ rights will be protected – including those of iwi, and 3) we all have equal rights.

Our PM is quoted as saying there is nothing in the Bill he likes.

What’s not to like?
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November 14, 2024 8:03am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Apparently 42 KC do not like it either……..
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:11am
  - john1234
    
    They and their eternal litigation gravy train are part of the problem.
    
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    November 14, 2024 9:12am
  - Swifty
    
    They’re the KCs who still have judge aspirations.
    
    😃
    
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    November 14, 2024 10:06am
- cmm
  
  2) is an oxymoron.
  
  How is it possible to protect both “iwi rights” and all New Zealanders’ rights when they are in conflict?
  
  Take as example the rights to recreational fishing. Iwi customary fishing rights are in conflict with NZer rights.
  
  The only way for there to be NZer rights is to get rid of any special people rights.
  
  As I have said many times before, the Maori roll arguably had a purpose until the end of 1879. Since then there has been zero justification. No government of any stripe has done away with it and don’t expect any to ever do it.
  
  The same applies to all the other special rights.
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:14am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Worse than an oxymoron, it ropes in the 1975 Treaty of Waitangi Act, and any amendments past, present and future. Not just three principles.
    
    We just need to stick with the original treaty. Make it compulsory learning in schools. Have it broadcast on state TV, a copy in every letter box.
    
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    November 14, 2024 8:31am
    - nathie
      
      That sounds like the NZ First position?
      
      If so why bother defining “Principles” if it is an oxymoron?
      
      Or worse still if enacted, a future Labour/Greens/TPM party could tinker with the act to suit their groupthink and “weaponise” it to enable greater radical outcomes?
      
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      November 14, 2024 10:21am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Exactly. Or they could modify the Waitangi Tribunal Act.
        
        Redefining principles on something that happened in 1840 is pointless.
        
        The Treaty is what it is and the activists need to be dealt a swift blow by being bought back to reality.
        
        Redefining the Treaty is like having a referendum to define what an orange or red traffic light means because red light runners think the road code is racist.
        
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        November 14, 2024 11:05am
  - Cassandra
    
    Maori negotiated the fish rights. You can’t just take them away. Much of the point of the principles Bill is to observe the Rule of Law. Can the Minister just take away your OAP but not mine?
    
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    November 14, 2024 8:32am
    - cmm
      
      While the situation exists where a special rights are based on race then we’re going to have problems.
      
      Take the fishing rights. When we have new regulations to preserve fish stocks in estuaries, they don’t apply the same to Maori as they apply to anyone else.
      
      “Can the Minister just take away your OAP but not mine?”
      Yes, that will happen.
      Consider some time in the future when the state can no longer pay the OAP. No doubt that will have a bunch of different “Maori advisors” etc on the panel who will demand special treatment for Maori receiving the pension.
      
      It has already happened in health (where Maori get preferential access to limited health), justice (where Maori get special get out of jail cards in the form of cultural reports), education,…
      
      100% guaranteed that when the time comes, Maori will get preferential access to OAP.
      
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      November 14, 2024 8:57am
      - rouppe
        
        Probably by exempting them from a rise in age of eligibility.
        
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        November 14, 2024 9:07am
      - Cassandra
        
        They shouldn’t get the OAP differently. That’s not my point. Just like the Nelson 10ths the fishing thing is a contract. What you are saying will happen is not. But you can’t just unwind a deal unilaterally.
        
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        November 14, 2024 9:44am
      - sirknz
        
        If they are claiming customary rights to extract a resource, then they should be using customary methods to do the extraction.
        
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        November 14, 2024 9:45am
      - cmm
        
        Cassandra: “They shouldn’t get the OAP differently.”
        
        Unfortunately shouldn’t and what does end up happening are not the same.
        
        They also shouldn’t get different access to a bunch of other things too, but they do: treatment by the judicial system, medical system and education system, tax payment,….
        But they do.
        
        And when access to the OAP gets tight then – no doubt – Maori will get preferential access to that too.
        
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        November 14, 2024 10:26am
      - Cassandra
        
        Hasn’t the Government gutted cultural reports and stopped racial health ,preference?
        
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        November 14, 2024 11:14am
  - mandk
    
    It’s not an oxymoron, but it is tautology.
    
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    November 14, 2024 8:34am
    - cmm
      
      A tautology is when both statements mean the same thing in different words.
      Maori rights do not means the same thing as rights for all NZers.
      Therefore it is not a tautology.
      
      If would be redundant if Maori were treated the same as everyone else so we could eliminate the phrase “Maori rights” becuase they would be the same as general NZer rights. For example: talking of “Irish-origin rights” and “pakeha rights” would be redundant because Irish-origin people get no special rights.
      
      Therefore I used oxymoron – they are contradictory. To say “uphold Maori rights” and “uphold general rights” is contradictory. It is like saying you want to keep dry and get wet at the same time.
      
      But, hey, this is the Luxonesque fence-sitting world we live in.
      
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      November 14, 2024 10:41am
      - mandk
        
        You are wrong.
        
        If you look at NK’s 8.03 am post, you will see that his second point was: “New Zealanders’ rights will be protected – including those of iwi”
        
        Iwi are New Zealanders, so there is no need to include them.
        
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        November 14, 2024 11:10am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    It is not an oxymoron. Taken literally it is redundant. In practice, the rights being referred to will be based on property ownership. We have exclusive rights over our own property. That is not in conflict with everyone having the same constitutional rights.
    
    Also, there is no right to recreational fishing. The government can and does restrict recreational fishing by weighing the interests of those who want to fish, against environmental concerns.
    
    The bill is clear that only treaty settlements can override equality. Commercial fishing quota is an asset like any other. A treaty settlement may including fishing rights in just the same way as it may include ownership of a piece of land.
    
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    November 14, 2024 8:42am
  - Grunter
    
    The devil is in the details, the iwi rights piece was inserted at the last minute and is about genuine rights from a Treaty Settlement (arguably agreed property rights).
    
    Principle 2
    (1)
    The Crown recognises, and will respect and protect, the rights that hapū and iwi Māori had under the Treaty of Waitangi/te Tiriti o Waitangi at the time they signed it.
    (2)
    However, if those rights differ from the rights of everyone, subclause (1) applies only if those rights are agreed in the settlement of a historical treaty claim under the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975.
    
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    November 14, 2024 8:47am
  - Dave
    
    Iwi customary fishing rights are in conflict with NZer rights.
    
    Maybe, maybe not.
    
    If iwi X used a particular section of a river or the sea as its exclusive fishery, and has defended or attempted to defend its exclusive use over the years, then that looks similar to the property right I have to the fruit and vegetables from my suburban quarter acre, and would be true whichever version of the treaty you prefer.
    
    Of course, if that section is an important spawning area for a larger fishery, then users of the larger fishery do have an interest in its management.
    
    Unfortunately, our courts have perverted the Marine and Coastal Area ACT’s clear intentions.
    
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    November 14, 2024 8:48am
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Customary rights are a well established right in Common Law, but are also accounted for under the Fisheries Act
      
      https://www.mpi.govt.nz/legal/legislation-standards-and-reviews/fisheries-legislation/introduction-to-fisheries-legislation/
      
      The issue, as I see it, around fishing customary rights (Maori and others) is the how the are managed to ensure no over exploitation.
      
      Honorary Fishery Officers (around 200 of them) are meant to police over exploitation but are often subjected to extreme responses form intimidation to outright physical violence
      
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      November 14, 2024 10:12am
    - cmm
      
      Maori are allowed to set nets in rivers when non-Maori are not.
      
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      November 14, 2024 10:27am
    - Dougal10
      
      They may have rights in a stretch of river to eels and yabbies but not anything else. And anything caught on a long line or really deep in the ocean isn’t customary either.
      
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      November 14, 2024 10:31am
  - pdm
    
    Iwi rights and New Zealanders rights are one and the same.
    
    We are all New Zealanders.
    
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    November 14, 2024 9:14am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Customary rights are a common law thing….people can have a custom right to something through long association.
    
    Plus Maori customary fishing rights were enshrined in the 1996 Fisheries Act. As were customary rights in general
    
    Maori Commercial rights were set by the Sealord deal
    
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    November 14, 2024 11:27am
- Damocles11
  
  The idea that we are all equal and have the same rights and duties is probably something he disagrees strongly with. He’s a paternalistic condescending corporate ‘A lister’, and in his mind he’s up on that plane occupied by other elites such as the Maori elite, climate mover and shaker James Shaw, global icon Jacinda Ardern and other great and good people.
  Then you have the ‘C listers’ which are your worker drones, typically not Tangata Whenua so not special and worthy of any real respect, the ‘C listers’ are simply to get their noses to the grindstone, shut up, and let the ‘A listers’ get on with enjoying the rarified air that comes with being people that truly matter.
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:19am
  - Ghost
    
    We already have a law that states we are all equal, the bill of rights.
    
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    November 14, 2024 8:52am
    - cmm
      
      Laws mean nothing unless they are enforced.
      
      The mere fact that various differences in the law, and running of the land, exist based on race alone flies in the face of the bill of rights.
      
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      November 14, 2024 9:00am
      - JackRabbit
        
        And the Treaty of Waitangi.
        
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        November 14, 2024 9:41am
      - imalwaysright
        
        “Laws mean nothing unless they are enforced.”
        
        Sometimes not enforcing the law is far more effective for those who want to undermine the legal system.
        
        The District Attorneys in the Dem states during the BLM riots poured fuel on the riots with their catch and release policy.
        
        They had no chance of enacting a law to allow this practice, but they did have discretion on whether or not to prosecute.
        
        Usually it was “Not”
        
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        November 14, 2024 10:24am
    - kowtow
      
      How’s that working out for rate and taxpayers .
      
      Huge wads of our money going to race based organisations for no other reason than.
      
      If that isn’t criminally corrupt it’s certainly morally corrupt.
      
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      November 14, 2024 9:02am
    - Mod88
      
      Yet the Ardern Labour Govt trampled all over them and will go unpunished for doing so. What Bill Of Rights.??
      
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      November 14, 2024 9:16am
    - Taieri
      
      We already have a law that states we are all equal, the bill of rights.
      ———–
      
      The utility of which was best shown during Covid.
      
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      November 14, 2024 11:48am
      - Ghost
        
        And you expect a new law will change that? How about we respect the laws we have
        
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        November 14, 2024 11:54am
      - Taieri
        
        How about we respect the laws we have
        ————-
        
        Us, the little people do. It’s the lawmakers that don’t respect and enforce the laws they create.
        
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        November 14, 2024 12:22pm
      - Ghost
        
        Which. Dan’s the government need to respect the laws we have, not create new laws that will just be ignored again.
        
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        November 14, 2024 12:53pm
- Grunter
  
  Luxon will live to regret that comment big time. Seymour is about to get 6 months of select committee exposure including public submissions. Luxon’s misguided gutless crew then vote it down at the 2nd reading……
  
  and then Seymour gets to be Deputy PM, with Luxon often traveling, Acting PM in the 18 mths leading into the next election. Seymour will have an opportunity and a platform to show his leadership (or not). My pick is he will excel and grab significantly more votes in 2026.
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:22am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Act’s share of the party vote at the next election (hopefully) 20%+.
    
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    November 14, 2024 8:54am
    - Ghost
      
      People said that this time, and yet since the election act have continued to slide down in the polls.
      
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      November 14, 2024 9:02am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Rubbish, they were polling at nearly 20%% last time, everyone is well aware of this bill yet support has not moved
      
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      November 14, 2024 11:13am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That is what we want to see. ACT is going places.
    National is failing under Luxon.
    
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    November 14, 2024 9:03am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Act is only polling a third of what it use to, they are going nowhere, you will not see centre voters where mmp elections are won, you simply scare the centre back to Labour or nzf
      
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      November 14, 2024 11:15am
      - pdm
        
        I would not be too sure about that G.
        
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        November 14, 2024 12:13pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    What like he excelled when opening his mouth before the election at had his parties 1% support crumble to 7% and give an opening to Peter’s, good luck getting more support
    
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    November 14, 2024 11:11am
- Ultima
  
  I hope there are more protests so the public can see more weirdos and hear more about the bill.
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:27am
  - nathie
    
    It’s a pity Maori leadership isn’t speaking up to tell their followers to engage with the democratic process, teaching their followers and young students to put in their submissions.
    
    Imagine if they did that and then attended the SC process in person to present their views ? It would make for a “powerful” demonstration of “people power” speaking to those in authority and having their voices heard. Democracy in action.
    
    Mind you, as Hosking stated on his show this morning, the protest organiser is the son of a TPM MP (who also works for her so is on the public service/taxpayer payroll), so of course it is in TPM’s best interest to stir up “division and hate” and control the narrative therefore holding some Maori back from engaging in the democratic process as informed citizens.
    
    TPM = Mob Rulz, just because.
    
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    November 14, 2024 10:31am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He is also 2 place up the list to go into parliament
      
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      November 14, 2024 11:19am
      - pdm
        
        Another out of control radical activist who will fit in with Ferris and the rest of them.
        
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        November 14, 2024 12:16pm
- Clyde
  
  Luxon is probably a smart and firm operator behind the scenes, but on this subject he either (a) believes that the East Polynesian block deserves more than anyone else that lives here, or (b) he has another plan that could get rid of race-based entitlements.
  
  I don’t think it is (b). Whereas David Seymour has a plan and it is one that appeals to anyone that hasn’t been drinking the Kool Aid.
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:28am
  - kowtow
    
    “Behind the scenes”
    
    That’s the worrying issue with the Nats .
    
    Their parliamentary party appears to be unelectable , until people like Key or Luxon are helicoptered in .
    
    Then these figureheads “lead” the caucus to victory . But who then do the likes of Key and Luxon owe their allegiance to . The people who shepherded them in?
    
    And why are the Nats anathema without these figureheads .
    
    But then the same thing happened to labour under their girlymen till Ardern got the nod and Winny crowned her .
    
    Maybe the problem is with the voters……..
    
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    November 14, 2024 9:08am
    - Taieri
      
      Maybe the problem is with the voters
      ———
      
      It seems to be. It almost looks like many voters base their decision on a best marketed single “issue-of-the-day” without considering the consequences.
      
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      November 14, 2024 11:52am
  - 7kiwi11
    
    The problem is the Kool Aid is being force fed everywhere! Primary, Secondary and Tertiary Education, Corporate Business’, every Government Ministry, Mainstream Media..
    
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    November 14, 2024 9:45am
    - Cantabrian
      
      And if you were born after about 1990, the Kool Aid is all you will have been fed. There is no alternative.
      
      See for instance the notice from South Wellington Intermediate School telling parents and pupils that “the Crown has repeatedly failed to honour and respect Te Tirity O Waitangi. This has made it harder for Maori to survive and thrive.”
      (https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/11/make_principals_accountable.html)
      
      There is never any mention of all the breaches of the Treaty by Maori. John Robinson’s “Who Really Broke the Treaty” is a must-read for those who are interested in the subject. It is of course notable that the Waitangi Tribunal does not (indeed, is not allowed to) investigate claims by non-Maori.
      
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      November 14, 2024 11:00am
  - Dougal10
    
    You have to wonder if his stand on this issue is why he lost some good staff. If hes not careful he may lose some good voters as well.
    
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    November 14, 2024 10:34am
- Mod88
  
  PM Christopher Luxon has completely misread the room on this issue. Of all the issues to dig his toes in and show NZ he has mettle to publicly state he will be ignoring the Submissions to Select Committee on this Bill is obtuse to the nth degree. I think there will be tens of thousands of submissions and I think they will be in support of this Bill. I also think it is going to cost him and the National Party big time. Look at the reaction Nanaia Mahuta got for ignoring 80,000 submission on 3 Waters. This will trump that in spades.
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:30am
  - pdm
    
    mod88 – I think you under estimate the level of submissions.
    
    If 3/5/10/All/MahutaWaters could get 80,000 plus submissions then I think The Treaty Principles may well give 200,000 plus a good nudge.
    
    There is a lot of disappointment in Luxon and National out there and when well connected people like Homepaddock challenge National – then how many others like her will do the same?
    
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    November 14, 2024 9:23am
    - Mod88
      
      I agree, I could have worded my last sentence better, I did mean Submissions on this Bill will Trump (pun intended) the Mahuta 3 Waters shemozzle.
      
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      November 14, 2024 9:50am
  - nathie
    
    Why blame Luxon? If Seymour had the smarts he would have also engaged with Maori leadership first to explain his rationale and seek their input to guide his Bill.
    
    That demonstrates he is engaging (whether he incorporates their views or not or some etc).
    
    It would allow him to speak on the issue with “mana” (which radical Maori would have to begrudgingly accept).
    
    Suspect that’s how Luxon would have done it because he could then bat away criticism saying not only did he consult, he walked the talk on the Marae.
    
    Seymour needs to learn and adapt.
    
    Anyway this is all a side show, I agree with the NZF position … Treaty Principles are an invention, just get rid of them, instead of enabling them (which a future Labour/Green/TPM Govt could make worse).
    
    Instead of wasting time (on this Treaty Principle sideshow) ACT could have supported NZF to ensure National remove these so-called Principles from legislation.
    
    Again Seymour needs to learn and adapt and if he had the smarts perhaps he could move ACT towards the NZF position if the Treaty Principles bill is defeated?
    
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    November 14, 2024 10:43am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘engaged with Maori leadership first to explain his rationale and seek their input to guide his Bill.’
      
      Why .
      
      We don’t live in a tribal or racial society .
      
      Despite the best efforts of the left here , we still live in a liberal ( true sense of the word) democracy based on a constitution that’s essentially about equality of citizens .
      
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      November 14, 2024 11:45am
    - Hard Cheese
      
      Seymour engaging with Maori leadership is pointless. They’ll have nothing to do with anything that waters down their grievance-based grifting rights.
      
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      November 14, 2024 1:15pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    He hasn’t dug his toes in, this has been his long standing position, sss as me with Peter’s
    
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    November 14, 2024 11:21am
- imalwaysright
  
  As soon as a racial description is included the idea of equality goes out the window.
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:35am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  By saying there’s nothing he likes, Luxon then doesn’t have to comment on any of the 3 Principles. That is Ardern style diversion.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:53am
- Matt Long
  
  Supposing Luxon is a political genius, and is using Act’s bill a a smokescreen to remove all refences to treaty principles in the background, what’s to prevent the coalition of communists and racists from banging them straight back in when the far left regain the reins of government?
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:03am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Luxons best move would be to quietly defund the thousands of parasitic organisations that feed in the name of a treaty.
    
    Send them all a four word email: ” Funding suspended pending audit”
    
    That should stifle any outcry.
    
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    November 14, 2024 10:36am
  - kowtow
    
    Only he’s not .
    
    A referendum is the best way of stopping what you describe.
    
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    November 14, 2024 11:46am
- leoj
  
  All I want is a say, via a referendum.
  
  The naysayers are too chicken to let us have a say.
  
  They’re chicken because they know what the public wants.
  
  We cannot allow politicians to make the decision. Most are too chicken and too woke.
  
  Now I am dreaming of living in USA. Under The Donald, USA is the place to be. It will go ahead in leaps and bounds while we struggle under a namby-pamby bunch of wokesters.
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:37am
  - Don Beckett
    
    But be selective of the state you choose – it would need to be a Republican state because the Democrat states will continue ‘business as usual’.
    
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    November 14, 2024 11:11am
rouppe

Wellington council digging up recently completed work on Thorndon Quay.

Comments are open, and are brutal.
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November 14, 2024 8:06am
- pdm
  
  rrouppe – it is most unlike Stuff to all brutal comments against the WCC.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:25am
  - pdm
    
    allow not all
    
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    November 14, 2024 12:24pm
- Burtland
  
  councils used to work – they successfully constructed our towns and cities for over a century
  
  then the left decided they wanted the control and farked them
  
  rinse and repeat and repeat and repeat
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:46am
- JimBobJoe
  
  To be fair – the change is because the original set up was suppose to tie to a raise pedestrian crossing, funded by NZTA. That funding no longer exists.
  
  Still raise crossings on major arterial routes near to emergency services (Thorndon Fire Station) are just bloody stupid… but thats what you get from Town Planners with a Leftist bent, stupidity and rigid adherence to anti car theology (yes theology as its a sacrament of their Green religion to hate cars)
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:16am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Wellington Free Ambulance HQ are located 25m off Thorndon Quay also.
    
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    November 14, 2024 11:55am
igm

NK: The only thing not to like is Luxon.
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November 14, 2024 8:11am
kowtow

Te Media Paahti have really got in behind this divisive , extremist, Maori Party convoy .

Does anyone else believe the police figure of 5000 across the bridge , aerial photo says otherwise .

Is anyone trustworthy these days.
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November 14, 2024 8:12am
- pdm
  
  1,700/1,800 was a figure Ryan Bridges said earlier this morning and it seems more accurate but, I did not see the news last evening.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:27am
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    TV1 news quoted Rawiri Waititi claiming 20000 – 25000
    
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    November 14, 2024 1:13pm
- pdm
  
  BTW kowtow this is a Maori Party, Waipereria Trust, John Tamahere family led carkoi as it is called at The Platform.
  
  Funding comes from where?
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:07am
- Swifty
  
  I wouldn’t say the Maori Party have got in behind it kowtow, no, they have created it, it’s entirely a Maori Party construction.
  
  People should make no mistake – the carkoi is no ‘grassroots movement’, it is a purely and completely political creation masterminded by TPM and Waipareira etc. it wouldn’t have existed if it weren’t for them.
  
  My only question is how much money has Waipareira and TPM (and related organisations) thrown into it?
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:14am
  - kowtow
    
    You should see NZME Herald editorial today .
    Well in .And their coverage is terribly and willfully short on real information about who is running this racket.
    
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    November 14, 2024 11:50am
- Philview
  
  They said 25,000 on TVNZ News but can hardly call them a reliable source of information.
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:43am
- imalwaysright
  
  Kow,
  The bridge is 1020 metres long!
  You can’t expect a committed hikoier to complete that in half a day!
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:44am
Chuck Bird

COP 29 is immoral

https://alexepstein.substack.com/

[Mod – include a description of what you are linking to, not just the title]
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November 14, 2024 8:13am
Damocles11

Luxon was parachuted into the National leadership by the corporate elite to continue ushering in woke DEI change and maorification and consolidate the ‘gains’ Ardern had made. Luxon knows all about how invested corporate NZ is in this stuff, he implemented a lot of it during his time as CEO of Air New Zealand. Having invested billions in this stuff and making it central to their corporate structures, the only option the corporate elite feel they have is to double down, and if that means disaster for our democracy and society then tough bikkies, so be it. Hence the property industry, which forces its agents to take compulsory maorification courses, bankrolls The New Zealand Herald and its far left agenda.
We are to be soothed with platitudes about getting New Zealand ‘back on track’ while we can all see it going further off track as the forces pushing maorification and wokeism tighten their grip on our country. It was once unthinkable that a documentary would screen in prime time showing a purported ‘man’ giving birth – but we’ve crossed that rubicon now, and taxpayers paid for it as well. Calls for the government to defund the torrent of propaganda flowing like sewage from taxpayer funded TVNZ and RNZ fall on deaf ears as Luxon sticks to his script, his tight focus on getting the plebs noses back to the grindstone so hopefully the profits ramp up and everyone forgets about what is being done to us.
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November 14, 2024 8:14am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Climate change alarmism is part of it. Simon Watts has some nonsense in today’s Heald (paywalled).
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:00am
mandk

I’m not surprised all those “top lawyers” have objected to the Treaty Principles Bill.

They would lose a lot of business if the Principles were clarified in the law and they no longer had the opportunity to argue lucrative cases in the Courts about how the Principles should be interpreted in different circumstances.
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November 14, 2024 8:17am
- Burtland
  
  The law community will be banking on tikanga saving their lifestyle from the onslaught of AI – however you might need to be of the right ethnicity to be involved.
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:01am
- Hugh Jarse
  
  Yes and would stop them once they get to exalted Judge status interfering with those principles whereas now they can fiddle as much as they like.
  
  One good thing is that now the coalition knows which group of activists not to promote to Judge status. I am also not sure that the future Māori tribal justice system will have much use for whitey KC’s or Judges.
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:06am
peterwn

“International taskforce backs rail-enabled Cook Strait ferries” proclaims a headline on Wellington Scoop. Interesting, I thought until I found out who the ‘taskforce’ was – ‘The International Transport Workers’ Federation (ITF) Ferry Taskforce’, I did not bother reading any more since that outfit would be a mouthpiece for the local union. How misleading. More disinformation!
https://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=165479
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November 14, 2024 8:26am
- Taieri
  
  The International Transport Workers’ Federation (ITF) Ferry Taskforce
  ————–
  
  I’m not sure what their “Ferry Taskforce” is, as there’s no such animal on the ITF website and I’ve never heard of anything of this sort, despite having been a lifetime member of maritime unions in a couple of countries. As for the ITF itself, it has done (and is doing) some great work concerning the welfare and working conditions of the international seafarers and I unconditionally support their activities in that area.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:53am
- peterwn
  
  “There was no real rhyme or reason why they threw it out that I can see.” says Maritime Union of New Zealand national secretary Carl Findlay.
  How about going to SpecSavers, Mr Findlay.
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:55am
cmm

Stuff asks: “Why did the host country of COP29 just call oil a gift from God?”

What bloody idiots.

While the little ivory-tower dwellers of Stuff think of coal, oil and gas as Evil, the reality is very different.

Without coal, oil and gas the majority of people would not exist and those that did exist would be living pitiful lives.

I welcome a stuff journalist to go coal and oil-free for a day:
* no plastics, glass, ceramics or steel
* no imported goods
* no transported goods
* no food
* no manufactured goods
* no medicines

Sounds awsome!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360486054/why-did-host-country-cop29-just-call-oil-gift-god
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November 14, 2024 8:26am
- Cassandra
  
  I read Stuff daily too. Masochism really.
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:34am
  - kowtow
    
    Every click on them is a win for woke .
    
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    November 14, 2024 8:42am
  - pdm
    
    I too read Stuff daily for the following:
    1. Their morning and afternoon quick quizzes are challenging and help keep the mind active.
    2. Their Sports coverage is not paywalled.
    3. One a week or so I pick up a snippet like this –
    
    CENTRAL Hawkes Bay District Council Seems Unaware The Government And Rules For Land Grabs Have Changed.
    
    Not covered that I have seen in Hawkes Bay Today which is the local paper for the area.
    I have more on it here:
    https://nominister.wordpress.com/2024/11/13/central-hawkes-bay-district-council-seems-unaware-the-government-and-rules-for-land-grabs-have-changed/
    
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    November 14, 2024 8:49am
    - pdm
      
      Not to forget Damien Grants excellent opinion pieces every Sunday.
      
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      November 14, 2024 10:09am
      - fightingtemeraire
        
        And Nick Barnett’s Furry Friday!!!!
        
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        November 14, 2024 10:38am
- Blog-aholic
  
  I have been going Stuff journalism free for about 2 years now and it IS awesome.
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:36am
  - Paul Marsden
    
    That’s an oxymoron. There’s no journalism in Stuff.
    
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    November 14, 2024 8:57am
  - RoboRob
    
    Welcome to the club. Stop watching TV news each night too (if you still do), you will feel much better for it.
    
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    November 14, 2024 9:01am
- I remember when
  
  Should the hosts have called oil a gift from Nature?
  Like coal and natural gas.
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:57am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Nature is a gift from God. 🙂
    
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    November 14, 2024 11:20am
- Benedict Yu
  
  When peak oil was the rage there were a couple of books that described life post oil. Literally billions would die.
  
  Of course, few folk give a thought to how all that food makes it to supermarket each day. Or now New Zealand relies on fertiliser made from natural gas.
  
  Sadly Jacinda knew none of this either.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:08am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I doubt Ardern knew much about anything except ‘be kind’ and other childish slogans.
    
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    November 14, 2024 9:23am
    - pdm
      
      None of which she was very good at.
      
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      November 14, 2024 9:29am
    - imalwaysright
      
      I remember her on a tv breakfast interview describe her days appointments as “activities”.
      
      Just one word, but it spoke volumes of her psyche.
      
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      November 14, 2024 9:39am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        “Activities” Like you do in primary school.
        
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        November 14, 2024 12:19pm
    - H. Upmann
      
      Ardern’s life-defining moment was about Teddy Bears.
      
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      November 14, 2024 12:14pm
  - slijmbal
    
    Peak oil was always peak bollocks. There are huge amounts of petrochems laid down over tens of millions of years. Peak oil was a deliberately disingenuous lie using discovered\permitted numbers as if they actually represented all that could be used.
    
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    November 14, 2024 9:47am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Well.. not quite.
      
      USA oil production had peaked in 1970 and declined for 40 years through to about 2010. Then fracking came along. This chart shows what happened.
      
      https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/images/2024.03.05/main.svg
      
      So the “peak oil” folk did not see the impact of fracking on the economics of recoverable oil.
      
      However, eventually, oil production will “peak”. It is a finite resource. When? No idea.
      
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      November 14, 2024 12:31pm
  - Burtland
    
    she knew enough to fool winston and become PM – a GOAT move
    
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    November 14, 2024 10:19am
    - peterwn
      
      Winston would have been in no mood to be part of a National coalition in 2017. He courted National to screw the best possible deal out of Labour and to make the Greens so scared they were not going to flex their muscles. In 2023 he was so sick of Labour he had meaningful talks with National. The last straw was when Chris Hipkins promised that Labour would not form a coalition with Winston meaning he wrote off any chance of being able to form a government. Anyway TPM would have been impossible to negotiate with.
      
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      November 14, 2024 12:46pm
      - Ghost
        
        Agree, she didn’t fool Winston, Winston played her. He was never going to go with the man he blamed for his booting from national or the woman he was blaming for releasing his pension details. It was always only labour he would go with back then.
        
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        November 14, 2024 12:52pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Just imagine the amount of coking coal required to make wind turbine blades. The bunker fuel in the ships to get them to New Zealand. The diesel in the trucks to get them on site. The lubrication oils to maintain them.
  
  BTW last time I checked, New Zealand is now the only OECD country without an oil refinery.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:21am
  - alwyn.a
    
    Why is any coking coal used when making wind turbine blades?
    Isn’t coking coal used to make steel? Aren’t Turbine blades made with fibre glass?
    
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    November 14, 2024 10:11am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Thanks – I stand corrected. 🙂
      
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      November 14, 2024 12:33pm
  - Phronesis
    
    Odd choice, wind turbine blades have always been made of composites. Polymers mostly derived from oil but never from coking coal. The towers are steel of course.
    
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    November 14, 2024 10:22am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes thanks for the correction.
      
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      November 14, 2024 12:34pm
  - Handyman
    
    Quite right. There are many studies that show the energy used to produce windmills exceeds the total energy generated in their lifetime.
    
    On the other hand, if the (taxpayer guaranteed) income far exceeds the cost to build then the windmills will continue to be built.
    
    Globally, the world is dedicating vast amounts of money, talent and natural resources to get our standard of living slightly worse off than it is now. Nuts!
    In 15-20 years, all the windmills currently in operation will have stopped turning, and there will no money to do it all again.
    
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    November 14, 2024 10:39am
  - imalwaysright
    
    “Just imagine the amount of coking coal required to make wind turbine blades”
    
    Not the blades, but there is a lot of steel rebar and concrete required to anchor the wind turbines.
    The foundations are massive and can’t be removed when the scam goes tits up.
    
    https://www.reddit.com/r/EngineeringPorn/comments/11peh8f/i_never_realised_the_base_of_a_wind_turbine_is/?rdt=61707
    
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    November 14, 2024 11:06am
- JimBobJoe
  
  COP28 President Sultan Al-Jaber claimed there is ‘no science’ indicating a phase-out of fossil fuels is needed to restrict global warming
  
  So a host poo-pooing Climate Change is nothing new…
  
  Of course Al Jaber was roundly criticised by the Climate Cult…. but I somehow think he is completely correct…
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:21am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    So stupid. Fossil fuels will “phase out” when demand for them falls. Simple as that.
    
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    November 14, 2024 12:35pm
Lipo

Quote “cmm
2) is an oxymoron.

How is it possible to protect both “iwi rights” and all New Zealanders’ rights when they are in conflict? ….. The only way for there to be NZer rights is to get rid of any special people rights..”

The way to fix this is to give everyone “special rights”
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November 14, 2024 8:28am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Shell Lane (The Terrace) bike rack report:

At 8.28am, zero bikes.

A calm, coolish, slighty misty-rainy morning in the Capital, ideal for cycling.
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November 14, 2024 8:28am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  But are there any bikes there by 9:10am?
  
  What type of person would possibly start work before 9 am?
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:17am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Well Maggy, many years ago, I was bought in acting head of Finance for a Govt Dept while they searched for a new Head. I had staff who turned up at 7.30 believe it or not. And ate their breakfast and read the paper for an hour. And then left early in the afternoon – “glide time”. When I got one of them in the office and suggested he work a full day, he claimed to have started at 7.30!! Long story short, I made him work his hours. He lasted 2 months then self deselected. And went to another Govt Dept!!!
    
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    November 14, 2024 9:30am
- imalwaysright
  
  Never,
  With such heavy use they may have to bring forward the annual safety and maintenance inspection. Let me guess- out of commission for three months and a bill for 200k.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:26am
- pdm
  
  Is there a locked gate so they cannot get the bikes in?
  
  Asking for a friend.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:31am
Warren Murray

His comments reinforce the perception that he’s out-of-touch with the attitude of most ordinary people, which has actually been his Achilles heel for the entire time he’s been in politics, perhaps longer.

He’s going to extraordinary lengths to curry favour with people who’ll never vote for him / National while irritating those who might and do. His attitude and National’s policy on race relations will be questioned throughout the next year as the Bill progresses. Even as it dies at the second reading, as seems likely, around the middle of the year, the electorate will be mulling the 40-odd local referenda on Maori Wards and the likely result of that in October will remind everyone how out-of-touch he and National are on this issue. By that stage it’ll just be another thing that will turn people off as they look ahead to the general election in 2026.

There has never been a single-term National / National led Government in our history but Luxon’s mediocre polling risks making history in a way that no-one here wants.

One of the oddest things about him saying that there’s nothing he can support in the Bill is that he’s already is relying the first Principle. That makes him a hypocrite and everyone, including himself, knows it.
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November 14, 2024 8:30am
- Matt Long
  
  Republican voters are unhappy with the selection of new Senate majority leader,
  John Thune, who they see as another compromised sellout who will attempt to knobble Trumps reforms of government.
  This follows the selection of leaders such as Luxon, Merkel, the series of CINOs in the UK, Turnbull and perhaps Morrison, who have actively promoted so called progressive policies after getting control of cetrist parties accros the West.
  The Professional Managerial class is continuing to have a feilday, as can be seen in Alwyn Poole’s recent experience with the Charter School Authority.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:09am
  - yobi
    
    You blew your argument the moment you mentioned Alwyn. Alwyn represents Alwyns interests only and doesn’t represent the general New Zealand public, bit like the maori party.
    
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    November 14, 2024 11:16am
    - Matt Long
      
      I don’t really care if Alwyn is out for himself as you allege, everyone else is too.
      Some people actually perform a service for the country at the same time.
      
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      November 14, 2024 12:09pm
- cmm
  
  “He’s going to extraordinary lengths to curry favour with people who’ll never vote for him”
  
  He’s not doing it to curry favour with filthy voters.
  He’s doing it to curry favour with his elite mates.
  Who do you think John Key wanted to curry favour with more: voters or his BFF golf buddy Obama?
  
  I suspect that Luxon believes he “owns” National voters much like the Democrats think they “own” Latinos and Blacks.
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:14am
TripeWryter

An 18 year-old Filipina is made dux of Flaxmere School, in Hawke’s Bay.
She migrated to New Zealand in August last year.
She had to learn English.
She worked in a hospital kitchen.
She still had schoolwork to do.
Yet she is awarded dux.
I am not in the least surprised.
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November 14, 2024 9:03am
- Eastlander
  
  Knowing Flaxmere she might be the only person in her year group capable of reading and writing at an adult level.
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:06am
- TripeWryter
  
  Would the down-ticker like to explain what they didn’t like about my post?
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:23am
- pdm
  
  7 or 8 years ago we hosted exchange students a couple of whom attended Havelock North High School.
  
  One year we attended a school prize giving and the person who came top in Senior Maori Studies was a German Exchange student who had arrived in New Zealand at the start of the School Year. She did her acceptance speech in Maori.
  
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  November 14, 2024 12:37pm
  - lifesgood
    
    What a complete and utter waste of her time. Presumably she will go back to Germany and never use it again.
    
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    November 14, 2024 1:08pm
I remember when

The letter to Naenae Primary School on their attending the Toitu Te Tiriti Hikoi raises a couple of questions.
Is the principal presuming they will get permission slips from 100% of the pupils?
Also, the body of the letter mentions a requirement for 1-1 supervision.
What happens if this requirement is unable to be fulfilled?
While the letter says the whole school will be attending, there is no mention of what is available for those not attending.
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November 14, 2024 9:08am
- Hugh Jarse
  
  Amongst many other questions parents should be asking is to see the schools HSE plan for protecting the kids they are bussing to the carkoi in a potentially threatening and volatile protest environment with lots of obese screaming angry protesters.
  
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  November 14, 2024 12:02pm
PurplePen

Reading the ODT this morning as one does. Numbers are up for those expected to take part in Black Friday sales this year. Gavin Male from PriceMe explains “Particularly this year with rising living costs, … Black Friday has become a bit of a lifeline for Kiwis looking to save on those essentials”.

What a load of rubbish. Essentials my arse. Nothing in the sales are essentials. For my part as I scrolled to the next page, greatly disappointed to see the fridge I wanted wasn’t included in the Harvey Norman sale… it’s still $6,751. I’ll wait for Boxing Day.
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November 14, 2024 9:24am
- cmm
  
  $6751 fridge is an essential? Wow.
  
  NZers are not quite as bad as Americans yet, but it seems they’re getting there. It is astounding what people feel entitled to.
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:17am
- imalwaysright
  
  Purple
  you deride Priceme for their claim of “essentials”, yet you’re looking at a $6751 fridge.
  That’s about 5 standard fridges worth.
  Can you post a link to the fridge? ( if it includes a picture of Nancy Pelosi and her covid ice cream collection then please don’t bother!)
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:19am
Raphael

the UK Labour Party is introducing legislation to bring on an inheritance tax of 40% that will apply to farms.
This has already led to the suicide of one farmer who wanted to ensure that his son would be able to inherit the farm before the inheritance tax came into force.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14057491/farmer-inheritance-tax-raid-killed-john-charlesworth.html

Farmers are often land-rich and cash-poor. the farmer’s son in question’s best year has made him £30,000, with the father running the farm and the son working elsewhere. Last year the son made £15,000 from the farm (that’s obviously after expenses, i.e. how much he gets paid from the farm). The farm’s land value is £2 million. There is no way they could hope to afford the £800,000 inheritance tax.

The somewhat unlikely champion for British Farmers is turning out to be Jeremy Clarkson.
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November 14, 2024 9:36am
- Taieri
  
  the UK Labour Party is introducing legislation to bring on an inheritance tax of 40% that will apply to farms.
  ———-
  
  Too low. It should be at least 100%. In fact, all farms should be state owned. It worked very well in the Soviet Union. Their productivity there was simply phenomenal.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:58am
- Warren Murray
  
  Not unlikely; he shown in successive seasons his farm just about breaks even despite his innovations in trying to develop new revenue opportunities.
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:25am
- cmm
  
  Farms are ridiculous businesses. Many are marginally viable as businesses.
  
  A few years ago I semi-mocked a farmer friend who has a multi-hundred-acre farm on the outskirts of Christchurch by calling him a hobby farmer.
  
  Nope, he said, he’s a real farmer as was his father and grandfather who farmed the same land. All his income came from farming. Therefore he is a farmer.
  
  I then put it to him that his farm land was worth around $20-50 million (more if he subdivided) and he was earning maybe $150k a year profit off it to feed his family. So that’s somewhere less than 0.5% ROI – not a viable business. If he sold the farm and put the money in the bank he’d be earning many million a year. That meant his operation was not being driven by what made financial sense. Therefore he was hobby farming.
  
  He thought about that for a year or so, then sold about half the farm as subdivisions and put tens of million $ in the bank including setting up some inter-generational trusts which will keep his family in clover for at least 50 years. He still has a smaller farm operating, and lives in the same frugal house, and focuses on the highest profitability part of his farm. He maybe earns $150k still, as well as the massive income from his investments with less effort and stress. He now acknowledges that he really is a hobby farmer.
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:32am
  - Matt Long
    
    “He realized that the real money was not in hamburgers but in real estate. Ray Kroc”
    
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    November 14, 2024 12:07pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Another Asian bus driver attacked in Auckland

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-auckland-bus-attack-leaves-driver-in-hospital-with-fractured-ribs-and-eye-damage/K5VDCQDW65DI7EB6FGDE4CZ4HY/
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November 14, 2024 9:38am
- Burtland
  
  now we will have to put anyone dealing with the ‘public’ in a cage …
  
  Court of Appeal dudges believe that “prisons … serve no real purpose” even for offenses involving violence – the judiciary is rotten
  
  Justices Francis Cooke, Sally Fitzgerald and Pheroze Jagose need to go drive buses in Auckland for a month – no cages – add Winkelmann to the list as well – useless overpaid woke bastards.
  
  How do we get rid of them?
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360485348/home-detention-replaces-jail-man-who-killed-stranger-christchurch-park
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:39am
- Swifty
  
  Sickening.
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:47am
- Ghost
  
  Sad.
  
  I note he is a recent immigrant because of a shortage of bus drivers. Seriously we cannot even train enough people to drive a bus. Well convince enough people get of their fat lazy butts and drive a bus
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:59am
  - Burtland
    
    the bus driver shortage was manipulated by Labour and the Unions to put their wages up – when that didnt work they opened the doors to immigrants – nice move by Wood
    
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    November 14, 2024 12:18pm
Matt Long

Musk and Ramaswamy are going to lead the Department of Government Efficiency, which will be transparent.
“We will also have a leaderboard for most insanely dumb spending of your tax dollars. This will be both extremely tragic and extremely entertaining”.
There’s going to be huge conflict between pork barrel politicians and bureaucrats versus reformers.
Voters are already promising compromised RINOs will be primaried out of office.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1856520760656797801
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November 14, 2024 9:57am
- Taieri
  
  Musk and Ramaswamy are going to lead the Department of Government Efficiency, which will be transparent.
  ———-
  
  No government department has ever been transparent. This one won’t be either, whether led by Musk and Ramaswamy or anyone else.
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:01am
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  Can we have a leaderboard for most insanely dumb spending of our tax and council rates dollars too? Pretty please. Perhaps Wayne Brown already has a list he can share to start the ball rolling.
  
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  November 14, 2024 10:09am
  - Philview
    
    The million dollar Christmas tree will be up there.
    
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    November 14, 2024 10:48am
RockyJ

NZ Herald today leads with a headline “NZ region at risk from 12 metre tsunamis will have only one to two hours warning”. Pure scaremongering to get clicks. It is as relevant as saying “Auckland is the most likely city in New Zealand to be hit by a nuclear bomb”.

This is pointless journalism designed to create fear, appear expert and boost your journalistic ratings.

I made a comment along these lines. After two hours I discover the article is no longer visible and the ability to comment has gone too. Ha ha ha.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-region-at-risk-of-12m-high-tsunamis-will-have-only-one-to-two-hours-notice/NCEHTBYUH5HQVHCT77EINITGFM/
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November 14, 2024 10:30am
- H. Upmann
  
  Thanks for reading that Rocky. I saw that and figured it be exactly as you describe so saved a few minutes of my life by skipping it.
  There is pretty much a daily fear mongering / daily brainwashing “article” somewhere in the media.
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:42am
- Taieri
  
  This is pointless journalism
  ———
  
  It’s not journalism. It’s scaremongering, like much that passes for “journalism” these days.
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:47am
- Burtland
  
  more PSYOP from the media … keep the sheeple scared
  
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  November 14, 2024 12:12pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  The headline was scaremongering but the article seemed fair enough. Reports a return period of 2,500 years for their ’12 metre’ tsunami and 400 years for a smaller tsunami.
  
  The tsunami threat in New Zealand is real. It is more likely than not that there will be a M8+ earthquake on the Hikurangi Subduction Zone in the next 100 years with a consequent devastating tsunami.
  
  The Alpine Fault has a 70 percent chance of rupturing with a M8 earthquake in the next 50 years.
  
  Folk should not be panicking but we should understand the probabilities and what they mean for preparedness.
  
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  November 14, 2024 12:12pm
  - cmm
    
    “Alpine Fault has a 70 percent chance of rupturing with a M8 earthquake”
    Sure, but that is unlikely to generate a tsunami.
    
    A Hikurangi Subduction Zone tsunami, from the stuck part of the zone, would strike shore well within an hour.
    
    Much of the calculation of these periods is pure bullshit though. A year or so ago there was some seismologist who said that there was a specific EQ around 1000 and then around 1500 so therefore we know it happens every 500 years and we should have another occurrence around now.
    
    That is complete nonsense. Every EQ changes the pressures in the rock and the way it will rip in the future. For example, the Chch EQ has potentially taken a lot of pressure off the Alpine Fault because it has opened up a new stress-relieving tear that goes through Coleridge, Hororata, Chrishchurch and Kaikoura. That might link up to the Hikurangi Subduction Zone, essentially bypassing the northern parts of the Alpine fault.
    
    You can’t predict any of this in any useful way. As you say, the best you can do is be prepared all the time.
    
    Anyone in NZ who doesn’t have gas, food and water etc for at least a week is a bloody idiot.
    
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    November 14, 2024 12:36pm
    - Burtland
      
      Anyone in NZ who doesn’t have gas, food and water etc for at least a week is a bloody idiot.
      ——
      In christchurch a full petrol tank and working cell phone was pretty important – not sure what you do with an electric car – and maybe a tent as you wont feel safe in your home. The 5000 aftershocks were debilitating almost as debilitating as EQC. Power was back pretty quick and supermarkets opened the next day. The community was quite resilient – not sure about now.
      
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      November 14, 2024 1:09pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Yes, what they say is correct. The good thing is they go back through history – 2500 & 400 years, and I would say they are correct.
    But I can’t stand the bullshitting we get from the MSM about climate change. Last week it was breathlessly reported that 2024 is heading to be the hottest year since records began, then – wait for it – in 1972 when sattelite information became available.
    They wouldn’t dare go back to the 1930’s when temperatures around the world were way hotter than today – nosiree. It’d blow their story/propaganda/fearmongering to shreds.
    
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    November 14, 2024 12:44pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Jack Smith’s future. He wants to avoid being fired ‘within two seconds’ of Trump being sworn in.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/trump-special-counsel-jack-smith-makes-decision-on-his-future/ar-AA1u0IQZ?
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November 14, 2024 10:42am
slightlyrighty

Whatever you think of Trump, Appointing Matt Gaetz as Attorney General is on the same level as appointing Nanaia Mahuta as Foreign Affairs Minister.
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November 14, 2024 10:44am
- mandk
  
  When did anyone ever refer to Mahuta as a firebrand?
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:12am
- Burtland
  
  there is a lower level – Poto as Police Minister 🤡
  
  shes now Pro-Chancellor at the University of Canterbury
  
  https://www.canterbury.ac.nz/about-uc/contact-us/external-directory/poto-williams
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:49am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    How is that even possible? 🙁
    
    How do such folk manage to forever land these nice roles even though they are totally unsuitable?
    
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    November 14, 2024 12:15pm
    - Matt Long
      
      DEI, and the slow march through the institutions.
      
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      November 14, 2024 12:21pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Land nice rolls because they are useless. They have to go somewhere, the Private Sector does not want them.
      
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      November 14, 2024 12:21pm
    - Taieri
      
      How do such folk manage to forever land these nice roles even though they are totally unsuitable?
      ———–
      
      Corruption is not just passing a brown envelope…
      
      2 0
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      November 14, 2024 12:25pm
    - Burtland
      
      easy … government stacks the University Council with leftards then they appoint 3 more and one magic brownie – 4 year appointments – game-set-match
      
      3.1. The members shall be:
      (a) Four members appointed by the relevant Minister;
      (b) The Vice-Chancellor of the University of Canterbury;
      (c) One permanent member of the academic staff of the University of Canterbury appointed following an election by the permanent members of that staff;
      (d) One permanent member of the general staff of the University of Canterbury appointed following an election by the permanent members of that staff;
      (e) One member appointed following an election by the students of the University of Canterbury;
      (f) One member appointed by the University of Canterbury Council, following consultation with Te Runanga o Ngāi Tahu;
      (g) Three members appointed by the University of Canterbury Council, two of whom must be graduates of the University of Canterbury
      
      https://www.canterbury.ac.nz/about-uc/our-structure/leadership-and-governance/university-council/council-members
      
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      November 14, 2024 12:41pm
- Matt Long
  
  The chief mission of the DoJ for the next two years will be to prosecute corrupt lawmakers and election officials, and ensure election integrity in the next congressional elections.
  Gaetz might be just the man to get things done and run a Truth and Reconciliation Commission in that short time.
  
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  November 14, 2024 12:19pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump can’t get rid of Elon Musk.
“Elon won’t go home.”

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/donald-trump-jokes-he-can-t-get-rid-of-elon-musk/ar-AA1u1Uly?
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November 14, 2024 10:53am
- JackRabbit
  
  Perhaps he’s worried Elon will push the “Activate Skynet” button.
  
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  November 14, 2024 12:36pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Musk wants to gut the Federal Government.
A newly created Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) Money is being wasted in the trillions.
Donald Trump has nominated billionaire Elon Musk and venture capitalist Vivek Ramaswamy to lead a newly created office designed to fire workers and make drastic cuts to government funding.

Sounds like what NZ needs to clean out the Public Sector.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/elon-musk-wants-to-gut-the-federal-government-under-trump-what-could-that-look-like/ar-AA1tvtFr?
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November 14, 2024 11:18am
- Cassandra
  
  Copying ACT NZ.
  
  4 1
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  November 14, 2024 11:58am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Is Biden going to do a Clark/Cullen act and empty the cupboards?
Biden rushes $6B aid to Ukraine amid fears of GOP funding cuts.

https://patriotpowerednetwork.com/biden-rushes-6b-aid-to-ukraine-amid-fears-of-gop-funding-cuts/?
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November 14, 2024 11:22am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hitmen Caught with Guns in Shocking Plot Against Trump.
Thomas Crooks had encrypted messaging accounts in Belgium, Germany, and NZ.
What does the NZ security know about this? The FBI can’t find what is on Crooks’ phone. Really? They are hiding facts.
Besides Crooks and Routh there are 3 more. They planned to kill Trump after the Election.
Video 10 min – the Benny Show.

https://patriotpowerednetwork.com/hitmen-caught-with-guns-in-shocking-plot-against-trump/?
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November 14, 2024 11:48am
Ghost

Congressional hearing on Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena from today

For anyone who is interested in the topic George Knapp has released a doco on Netflix with their own footage of a white orb coming out of the night sky, going into the ocean and coming towards their boat underwater. Sounds similar to the footage that was shot off the coast of Kuwait
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November 14, 2024 11:51am
kowtow

Tallking of Cop29 and world virtue signalling leaders and the 50,000 attendees .

I wonder if any , or te media might spare a thought for the genocide of the Armenians from within Azerbaijan’s borders .
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November 14, 2024 11:57am
Chris Nisbet

Is it just me, or do others also think that NZ is running out of time to be a world leader when it comes to dropping the ‘net zero’ insanity?
We have Germany headed towards collapse at breakneck speed in no small part because of the billions they’ve spent on ruining their electricity grid, I predict the next UK govt. will shitcan it, and USA have seen the light. Opposition to the nutcasery is growing in Aussie as well.
Come on NZ, get with the programme!
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November 14, 2024 12:10pm
- thirteenstars
  
  Haven’t we just committed, at the COP in Baku, to paying tens of billions to countries like China for being one of the original climate sinners?
  
  Instead of dropping the insanity we’ve re-entered the asylum and thrown away the key.
  
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  November 14, 2024 12:25pm
- kowtow
  
  The upcoming German elections could be interesting , given their elites have been to the fore of the crazy carbon cuts , which have gutted their industrial capacity , increased energy costs and made them reliant on Russian gas.
  
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  November 14, 2024 12:56pm
cmm

Don’t lie.

Of course you want one…..

4 “lucky people” have already had their free Paddy Gower tattoo!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360485277/kiwi-tattooist-giving-away-free-paddy-gower-tattoos-theres-catch
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November 14, 2024 12:20pm
Benedict Yu

Man, this new Secretary of Defense is going to cause a stir.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/13/pentagon-stunned-after-trump-picks-pete-hegseth-for-defence-secretary

“Also during his interview with Shawn Ryan, Hegseth outlined proposals to “fire” Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, CQ Brown, and other “woke” generals.

“Well, first of all, you got to fire, you know, you got to fire the chairman of the Joint Chiefs,” he said.

“Any general that was involved, general, admiral, whatever that was involved in any of the DEI woke shit, it’s got to go,” he added. “Either you’re in for war fighting that and that’s it. That’s the only litmus test we care about.””

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4988962-fox-news-host-nominated-defense-secretary/

He has also said that he wants to stop women from serving in combat roles. I don’t know whether that is a good or a bad thing TBH. I’m not qualified to judge.

IIRC Israel was the first defence force to have women in combat roles. However, I guess they need everyone they can get, being surrounded by countries that want to kill them all.
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November 14, 2024 12:20pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What Trump is doing now is just the start of getting rid of the deadwood.
  A lot of people are going to get the DCM.
  
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  November 14, 2024 12:31pm
- Taieri
  
  IIRC Israel was the first defence force to have women in combat roles
  ———-
  
  The Soviets were the first during the WW2. They were the first to allow women to fly combat missions and also the first to employ women snipers.
  
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  November 14, 2024 12:37pm
- cmm
  
  There is zero wrong with women in combat roles so long as:
  1) There are no quotas. That includes not measuring statistics and having “diversity drives” etc.
  2) There is zero modification to any standards: fitness, strength etc.
  3) There is no special treatment.
  
  Sure it isn’t “fair”, but nor is it fair on a 120kg infantryman if he can’t depend on his 63 kg female buddy to carry him into cover when he gets wounded.
  
  As I understand it, the Israeli females are mainly in their own units. For example there is a female tank unit that performed very well on October 7th even though they sustained.
  
  In today’s mechanised military there are many roles in which strength is not really required. For example a plane or a tank is all hydraulic and doesn’t need physical strength to drive.
  
  That said, many roles require strength and endurance. Females will struggle to make it and we should not expect them to – well not in any serious numbers anyway.
  
  Painting the military pink has been a disaster for the Americans.
  
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  November 14, 2024 1:22pm
  - kevn
    
    cmm… Not just pink but rainbowed.
    
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    November 14, 2024 1:39pm
thirteenstars

Mr Trump goes to Washington. No riots. The plywood window shutters all taken down. Just like clockwork, as it’s done every four years for the last 240 years, the US just gets on with it.
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November 14, 2024 12:29pm
peterwn

Breakdown of today’s Parliamentary questions:
Treaty related 5
Patsy 5
Open 2 (Carmel probably children/ welfare/ employment and Chlöe probably Treaty)

So the Opposition focus has moved away from health/smoking and on to the Treaty (now the Hikoi is under way).

https://bills.parliament.nz/v/11/d54119ab-db17-4fa1-2ba3-08dd042b532e
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November 14, 2024 12:55pm
cmm

Luxon it bitching that Seymour is not helping the government with the “controversial” Treaty bill.

Well guess what Mr Luxon, he was never trying to help the government. He was trying to help the people of New Zealand to resolve an issue that you pussies have let ride, and get worse, for generations.

Screw the government. The government is supposed to be there to serve the people. You seem to think that everyone is there to serve the government and the government’s interests!

Yes, this nonsense has stood for a long time. It is a festering sore. Activists are inflaming the situation. This needs to be sorted out before the pot boils over.

Yea, we know you don’t like to take action and you would rather sit on the fence. However that fence will get shaken if you dither too long. When that happens things will become unpleasant.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360482519/hikoi-live-seymour-not-helping-government-controversial-treaty-bill-pm-says
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November 14, 2024 1:32pm

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