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November 12, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 12 November 2024

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General Debate

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NeverMindTheBollocks

What is it with the media and Bom Gillies? No disrespect to Bom, but he’s just one of the tens of thousands of New Zealanders who went away to war and came back. I’m not aware that he did anything out of the ordinary, at the war or in his post war career. And some cretin gave him a knighthood, presumably for longevity!

If the media doesn’t track down every remaining WW2 returned serviceman & give him the same dewy-eyed treatment then they’ll yet again expose themselves as the racist hypocrites that they are.
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November 12, 2024 8:01am
- Cantabrian
  
  Will the last sailor or airman get the same adulation? I suspect not.
  
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  November 12, 2024 10:30am
- Terrance Bonde
  
  He was the last remaining member of the 28th Battalion. I believe had previously declined to accept the knighthood, but was later persuaded to accept it on behalf of those who served in the 28th Battalion. New Zealanders, had a truly high casualty rate during the second world war, the 28th Battalion had an even higher casualty rate. I certainly don’t begrudge the media coverage for him, or for any of the remaining second world war veterans. They are far more deserving than the coverage that random members of the rainbow community get for having their tender feelings hurt.
  
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  November 12, 2024 11:52am
  - David Garrett
    
    Terrance: Absolutely. And for that matter Sir Robert Gillies appears to me to be just the sort of man who should be honoured with a Knighthood. As far as I am concerned, every single member of the Maori battalion who returned should have received a decoration of some kind.
    
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    November 12, 2024 12:54pm
  - Graeme Hall
    
    In Italy the Maori Battalion shot German prisoners of war against Convention. These atrocities were noted at the time by the Germans & they made a point of killing as many members of the Battalion as possible – hence the very high casualty rates which were not due to exceptional courage in battle but the very opposite. The incident is mentioned in the official NZ Army dispatches.
    
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    November 12, 2024 2:33pm
    - Jack5
      
      NZ’ers bayoneting German wounded …
      
      Here’s a report of the conversation between a captured NZ brigadier and Rommel:
      
      https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/47714851
      
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      November 12, 2024 3:55pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Atrocities happened on all sides. In fact the Germans – particularly the SS were notorious for killing captured soldiers. The Maori Battalion were little different to any soldiers under the extreme stress if combat.
        
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        November 12, 2024 7:29pm
      - Mike
        
        Clifton’s memoir is worth a read.
        
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        November 12, 2024 7:51pm
  - Mike
    
    Kiwibloggers might be interested in this recently published book:
    https://aotearoabooks.co.nz/heavy-and-continuous-sacrifice/
    It has a good essay providing detailed comparisons of the combat experience of the NZ infantry battalions.
    
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    November 12, 2024 7:48pm
- herb1
  
  Yes I agree. The Maori Battalion were great , but no greater than the 18 other Battalions plus all the support Battalions , who made the same sacrifices without question and without ongoing demands to respect their legacies.
  
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  November 12, 2024 11:58am
- Paulus
  
  But you forget in today’s country he was a revered Maori, as he was the last of the Battalion, so that puts him above all things in this regards.
  Imagine if he had been a Wahine !
  
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  November 12, 2024 2:34pm
Unity

David Seymour offered to speak to the Leaders of the Hikoi but was told that as he didn’t speak Maori there was no point as they wouldn’t understand him.

They said that in English!!

What a basket case this country has become.
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November 12, 2024 8:05am
- AitchW
  
  Would it be cynical to suggest that they know Seymour is a rational and intelligent man, and he would run rings round them in a debate?
  Having said that, it could be a different story if Seymour were to offer kai and koha.
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:08am
  - John Loveridge
    
    Given the calm and matter-of-fact way he despatched that wretched woman on TVNZ’s Breakfast, I suspect those unfortunate idiots wouldn’t stand a chance.
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:46am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  It puts their activism into perspective. And I have heard Seymour speak Māori in parliament, who are they to decide who speaks Maori or not
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:10am
  - AitchW
    
    G, even if Seymour doesn’t speak fluent Maori, I’m sure that Parliamentary Services has compenent translators.
    The activists are scared of Seymour.
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:32am
    - pdm
      
      I am sure he spoke fluent Maori at Waitangi either this year or last year.
      
      He would probably be all over them like a rash in either language.
      
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      November 12, 2024 10:07am
      - AitchW
        
        I agree, that’s why they’re scared. Imagine if his Maori was more fluent than the activists.
        
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        November 12, 2024 10:14am
    - John Loveridge
      
      And that is the real story right there.
      
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      November 12, 2024 11:47am
  - Paulus
    
    He is the wrong kind of Maori !
    
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    November 12, 2024 2:35pm
- Lexicon
  
  What they really meant was, “Talk to the hand.”
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:14am
- Yvette
  
  Unity, likewise both David Seymour and the late Maori king were at Waitangi.
  Both spoke, but not to each other.
  It seemed a studious avoidance – it didn’t fit the agenda, which may now be more apparent.
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:17am
- slightlyrighty
  
  When the treaty becomes an undefined mechanism which has been repurposed by activists in a push for separatism, then it becomes the purview of our leaders to seek to define the principles under which we all operate.
  
  More power to Seymour. I predict ACT party support to improve.
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:36am
  - OlderChas
    
    After seeing Luxon’s pig-headed refusal to support the bill past first reading, stating that people are hoping National will change their mind but they will NOT, this long time National voter will never vote National again. Pig headed stupidity – openly showing that even if the will of the people during Select Committee hearings shows overwhelmingly that people want the Bill to proceed – is not what I have ever voted for.
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:49am
    - peterwn
      
      Oh well. Welcome to a Labour government (unless you vote ACT instead of National).
      
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      November 12, 2024 10:20am
    - slightlyrighty
      
      I actually understand what Luxon is doing here. Allowing ACT to dip their toe into this debate is a move towards what is necessary for our country, but until it gets the broad support it deserves, any party that wants to form a government cant touch the subject. It’s a benefit of MMP in that it allows such discussions to be had.
      
      TPM’s contribution to this will not win much support from the center,
      
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      November 12, 2024 11:04am
      - rouppe
        
        Luxon doesn’t have to say either that he supports it, or doesn’t support it. He just has to say let’s have the debate and see where it falls.
        
        It was interesting to see the Greens say it should be a conscious vote. Maybe they want that so they can label those that say “aye” as racists, but it could easily backfire if the bill were carried.
        
        [I hope you mean conscience vote, not that you could tell if some of them are even awake. mod.]
        
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        November 12, 2024 11:38am
    - coge
      
      I voted National for many years. But never Luxon. The sight of him cowering behind Jacinda’s skirts, clutching his vaccination passport, did it for me.
      
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      November 12, 2024 12:03pm
    - KH
      
      Don’t be concerned. Luxon knows a thing or two. There is plenty of water to run under the bridge yet.
      Lets have all the fuss at the select committee. (be sure to make a submission) And the anti bill people will make dicks of themselves and lose even more support.
      And who knows what might then be the compromise.
      Could even be NZ First’s policy “There are no principles”. So Luxon can say ‘well that is how it worked out”
      He does know what he is doing.
      
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      November 12, 2024 12:17pm
      - Paulus
        
        The Coalition Government has concluded the first Tranche of its election already.
        Two more only, to go to the next election.
        
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        November 12, 2024 2:37pm
    - Mr T
      
      Agree, I think the losses to National will be huge, and even a change now will not fully restore the damage being done to the National brand
      Listen to USA, the quiet people have a voice.
      
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      November 12, 2024 12:59pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Rubbish, this has been well traversed by Nat’s and NZF are only going to support it to first reading, everyone already knows that’s what the coalition agreement states till first reading, no one will change now suggesting they did not know shows they are as dumb as lefties if so.
        
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        November 12, 2024 3:57pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      If Luxon had any smarts at all.
      He would allow all national members a conscience vote.
      
      Hence keeping his promise that National would not support the bill past first reading.
      
      But presumably the conscience vote would allow it to progress.
      
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      November 12, 2024 4:59pm
- Clyde
  
  Seymour absolutely hammered that [Mod – deleted] Clarkson by firstly telling her what the role of the media was (impartial information and not uninformed opinion) and then quietly shooting down every question by reasoned argument. He doesn’t use word salad (unlike Luxon is increasingly doing) and keeps the argument simple. Every opponent of this bill (including the out of work mob who seem to think walking involves buses) wants to make a simple bill complex. It ain’t. But the mob, or more accurately, rabble, want to confuse the message.
  
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  November 12, 2024 10:01am
  - Jack5
    
    Hikoi – protest marches – are television protests.
    
    If it weren’t for State TV boosting them daily, they would quickly fade out, pointless and ignored.
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:21am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Hikoi !
      More like Hiacekoi.
      The drive throughs will be chokker.
      
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      November 12, 2024 10:54am
  - Philview
    
    I suspect the long term strategic goals of David Seymour have been thought through carefully. The next election will see the left wing bloc in some capacity having to answer questions on their separatist plans. Obviously the media will not be asking those questions but I assume Seymour will have a plan. It baffles me the Government aren’t taking steps to stop the extreme ideological orientation of TVNZ.
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:42am
    - Interested Party
      
      Im hoping the strategy by the coalition is that this gets the conversation out there. When the referendum law fails at second reading, they go hey but there are some laws that need tidying up, so we will remove any references to principles from laws and nullification of principle related court decisions since 1975. At this point the broader population is more educated on the subject, and will be supportive of the proposed law changes. Well I live in hope….
      
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      November 12, 2024 12:30pm
      - Ghost
        
        Already looking at the laws
        
        https://www.scribd.com/document/778721331/Scope-of-Treaty-of-Waitangi-clause-review
        
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        November 12, 2024 12:33pm
    - artemisia
      
      I think a lot of quiet steps are being taken on many fronts. Often through a serious focus on (less) funding, (sharper) outcomes and (drain the swamp) efficiencies.
      
      More than one way to …. is there really more than one way to flay a feline? Don’t think I want to know the answer to that.
      
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      November 12, 2024 12:45pm
    - Paulus
      
      The next move for Seymour is that he becomes Deputy Prime Minister right up to the next election, as we are alrady one third through this Parliamentary term.
      
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      November 12, 2024 2:56pm
  - Warren Murray
    
    She looked apoplectic too
    
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    November 12, 2024 12:13pm
    - Paulus
      
      She performed like a Bloody Amateur !
      
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      November 12, 2024 2:57pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Clyde, I think he was telling her what taxpayer funded media’s role was rather than the media in general. Privately owned media can say whatever the hell they like. It’s up to us not to pay for it or read it.
    
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    November 12, 2024 12:44pm
- judith8409121
  
  remarkable that there would be a group walking the streets to protest for separatism, racism, and arpartheid.
  
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  November 12, 2024 10:17am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    How times change
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:05am
- kowtow
  
  Luxon said he’d support the Bill to committee stage and then kill it .
  
  The point of that stage , I believe , is to allow the public to make submissions ( in a democracy that’s how it works , hearing what the electorate says ) and to then consider the legislative matters at hand.
  
  Luxon clearly has no interest in the electorate , other than to put him in power, or constitutional principles or processes.
  
  What a basket case this country has become.
  
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  November 12, 2024 10:47am
  - Warren Murray
    
    He’s reached the high point in his political career – I don’t think he cares about being re elected and looking at his popularity ratings, he’s right
    
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    November 12, 2024 12:15pm
- all true
  
  If one wouldn’t pay their social benefits while they are on the Hikoi, there wouldn’t be a Hikoi.
  
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  November 12, 2024 11:01am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Basket case indeed. That’s just beyond mental.
  
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  November 12, 2024 6:16pm
Yvette

Treaty
AI request –
For the Coalition Agreements of both New Zealand First with National, and ACT with National, please identify where common sentiments are and summarise those in about 100 words (appropriate portions of the two Agreements supplied) –

AI – 100-word version:
• The National Party’s coalition agreements with New Zealand First and ACT prioritize equal citizenship, removing co-governance in public services, and basing public service access on need, not race. Both agreements advocate a liberal democratic framework, supporting local referendums on Māori wards and opposing race-based entitlements. They propose a four-year parliamentary term and seek to limit the interpretation of Treaty principles in legislation, with ACT introducing a Treaty Principles Bill to establish clearer parameters. These agreements emphasize equality before the law, reinforcing New Zealand’s sovereignty and aligning public service delivery with the principle of equal rights and obligations for all citizens.

So how does National work with New Zealand First but is adamant there is no support for ACT and has been emphatic that has been the case long before Cabinet considered what the Waitangi Principles Bill might comprise.

But it would seem from a post-Cabinet news conference yesterday it was pertinent to ask –

From the earlier reference to each Agreement with National is either approach is a very simplistic interpretation that could be considered a disservice to the Treaty of Waitangi?

AI – Yes, both agreements could be seen as overly simplistic interpretations of the Treaty of Waitangi, potentially underserving its significance and complexity. Each agreement emphasizes equal citizenship and limiting race-based considerations, which, while aiming for fairness, may overlook the Treaty’s role in acknowledging the unique status, historical rights, and ongoing relationship between the Crown and Māori. The National-ACT proposal, especially with its Treaty Principles Bill, narrows the interpretative scope of Treaty principles in law, possibly reducing recognition of Māori interests. This approach risks sidelining the Treaty’s broader intent, which includes partnership and recognition of Māori as tāngata whenua, or indigenous people, of Aotearoa New Zealand.

So “risks sidelining the Treaty’s broader intent, which includes partnership and recognition of Māori as tāngata whenua, or indigenous people”.
Does the present Hīkoi mō te Tiriti –

“One of our kuia said it best last night. The last hīkoi built a party – the Māori Party – [but] lets make this hīkoi build a nation. Let us focus on that,” Harawira said. [1]

– is the Hikoi similarly simplistic in claiming a separatist nation? – against “Luxon responded saying the Treaty of Waitangi was the founding document of New Zealand and it had protection for both Māori and Crown interests.
“But as I said to you, the position is very clear, the Crown, Māori ceded sovereignty to the Crown.“ [2]

If ACT’s Bill can be criticised for its simplicity, how simplistic will be the Hikoi in presenting a separatist nation claim that sovereignty was not ceded?

How simple can it get?

_______________
[1] https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/533479/hikoi-mo-te-tiriti-day-one-lets-make-this-hikoi-build-a-nation
[2] https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/525689/the-crown-is-sovereign-prime-minister-christopher-luxon-says
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November 12, 2024 8:09am
- alphabeatrium
  
  Can people stop doing this? Use your human brain to develop arguments, not a statistical language machine that is tuned to be overly helpful and eager to please its users. It will slowly degrade the strength of your own mind if you let it do your thinking for you.
  
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  November 12, 2024 10:14am
  - Yvette
    
    Alphabeatrium
    – the AI involvement (sophisticated garbage in, sophisticated garbage out) is clearly labeled.
    When you are passed 80 you are passed wasting time. Quel est le problème
    Look at the moon, not the finger
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:06am
    - alphabeatrium
      
      The issue is that I’m interested in reading the opinions of human beings, whose opinions actually matter, and not the output of a language model, which doesn’t.
      
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      November 12, 2024 11:52am
      - Interested Party
        
        As it’s labelled AI you could simply ignore it. I’m occasionally interested on what AI engines are putting out, as many less informed people will be using it
        
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        November 12, 2024 12:38pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    There are some good points there, but like any technology, LLMs have both their dangers and their uses.
    Have you ever used a dictionary, an index or an encyclopedia? Those are the LLMs of a previous age, predigested summaries of gigantic piles of raw information.
    Why even use an index system? Just read and remember the entire library, isn’t that better?
    
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    November 12, 2024 3:20pm
Bridgenag

the fracture
the disintegration of the media cult and its followers

“this election was a watershed, but it has also left a large number of seriously damaged people, people who have been watching TV news for a decade and believing it, people sucked into these cultist tactics of isolation, alienation, and indoctrination.
their whole worldview is false, their facts made up, their whole calculus is garbage in garbage out. it’s all “big scary pseudoscience thing will end us all and the only solution is more intrusive global government””

https://open.substack.com/pub/boriquagato/p/the-fracture?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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November 12, 2024 8:10am
- nygr
  
  Your article seems to assume some of the looney left have experienced a moment of insight or enlightenment. I can sadly report that many socialists and other gormless sorts still belief that our former PM Ardern is Christ (or maybe Mohammed) incarnated. There are many that find comfort in her lies and deceit.
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:08am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Definitely Christ. She doesn’t go to muslim countries for some reason.
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:05am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    The cult of “you go girl” is very strong in NZ. To the point of defending the indefensible.
    
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    November 12, 2024 6:35pm
- Grunter
  
  The indoctrination of a decent percentage of the population across the Western world will have lasting damage. Reality was always going to hit them hard, and it has only just begun. None of us have been immune to it (you might think you’ve batted it all off, but at some level, on some topic(s) the indoctrination has made an impact). Anyone who still consumes any MSM content will continue to be indoctrinated today.
  
  The obvious ones are Global Boiling, the entire COVID narrative, and division by identity/DIE/racism.
  
  The issue I think that is most damaging and still has most sucked in is the USA Military Industrial Complex and their zest for war. It astounds me how Eisenhower warned about this over 65 years ago yet the majority of the population in the Western world continues to emotionally beat the war drums as the MIC conjures up false enemies in their hunger for power and money. Most, but not all, KBers are in this camp. I read comments every day that confirms this. You might deny it, but it is very evident when you do a deep dive into the realities of Ukraine, The Middle East, and in fact, all wars that the US has fought since WW2.
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:13am
  - Burtland
    
    grunter the gaslighter
    
    “You might deny it, but it is very evident when you do a deep dive into the realities … ”
    
    sounds like the media’s “what you need to know”
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:53am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    We all know about the USA’s imperialism – but some of us are less concerned about it than we are about Putin’s desire to start a new Tsarist dynasty with continuing invasions – Checnya, Georgia, Ukraine.
    
    Ukraine is a very complex situation – you can argue NATO expansionism all you like.
    
    But the Russians are firing long range missiles into civilian populations and destroying energy infrastructure hundreds of miles away from the front line, in obvious terror tactics.
    
    That is worth opposing – the sooner the Ukraines are allowed to use weaponry that can hit Moscow, St Petersburg, industrial and military targets deep inside Russia the sooner the Russian people will demand a stop to Putin’s wanton aggression
    
    Putin didn’t need to attack Ukraine he did if for entirely personal reasons – to shore up his rule by posing as the Strongman protecting Russian honour..
    
    If you want to critique USA imperialism – then do the same with Russia and the CCP, otherwise you come across as a stooge for authoritarian regimes…
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:00am
    - Taieri
      
      the Russian people will demand a stop to Putin’s wanton aggression
      —————–
      
      The Russian people will not make such a demand. On the contrary, the Russian people will adopt the under-the-siege mentality. Talk to just about any Russian now to see what they think of Putin and his imperial designs.
      
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      November 12, 2024 12:37pm
      - JimBobJoe
        
        Of course they back Putin – dissent is handle by a swift descent from a high balcony…. When the body bags start arriving in the main cities and not the smaller towns and villages things will change….
        
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        November 12, 2024 5:01pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Grunter, perhaps your finest post.
    Not all frogs have been boiled, but most have had a good simmering.
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:13am
Cassandra

Comment in the UK Spectator: We need to face up to some unpleasant truths. Chief among them is the realisation that although multiculturalism is a central tenet of liberalism, liberalism is not a central tenet of multiculturalism. The more that Europe (or, for example, the USA or NZ) continues to import its population from countries where anti-Semitism is endemic, the more anti-Semitic Europe’s population will become. The same applies to maltreatment of women, homophobia, sectarianism, censorship and communalism. Liberals fail to grasp that point.
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November 12, 2024 8:10am
- John Kreese
  
  I don’t think multiculturalism is a central tenet of liberalism either.
  
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  November 12, 2024 8:30am
  - Grunter
    
    It depends on which version of ‘Liberalism’ you refer to.
    
    A pure Libertarian view is colour-blind to race, it is the individual that only matters. To a Libertarian, the most uninteresting thing about someone is who their ancestors were (who cares!). But steal/harm me or my property – then you will get a reaction. That, of course, means that most religious-based cultures are anti-Libertarian, which is where the problems arise.
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:25am
  - Cassandra
    
    I think the overwhelming evidence is that you’re wrong. Or perhaps better, most liberals disagree with you.
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:30am
    - John Kreese
      
      Most “liberals” aren’t in fact liberals either when you scratch the surface.
      
      Multiculturalism has been imposed top-down upon western democracies by our political elites, which doesn’t seem very liberal to me.
      
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      November 12, 2024 10:08am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    History shows there are some cultures that are reasonably compatible (EG Australian culture and Mediterranean European culture). Others are quite obviously not at all compatible and history clearly shows they should not mix through immigration.
    
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    November 12, 2024 6:43pm
- mogg
  
  Yes this is wilful ignorance on the part of Wokists,
  their real goal is to attack and destroy the status quo hoping to install their own cultural revolution.
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:20am
- imalwaysright
  
  What’s the recent fixation on antisemitism about?
  Is it an attempt to deter people from criticising Nettanyahu and his government?
  Jewish people are in every country on the earth and most of them are doing well for themselves through their own efforts.
  Why has this spotlight of victimhood been shone upon them?
  I believe it is a distraction engineered by Nettanyahu to allow him to do what most of even his own country disagree with.
  Nettanyahu is about money and power, not Israelis, and especially not the Jewish people.
  
  He is Israel’s adern, except he has an intellect.
  
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  November 12, 2024 11:28am
  - Paulus
    
    How many people of the Jewish Faith have been awarded the Nobel Prize ?
    How many Muslims name him as one similarly – one name I am aware of, having met him once,was not a Muslim, but his father may have been earlier in life. In fact he was born in Rio de Janeiro.
    The one I know of was educated at an English top Boys Private school,where there would have been have been no Muslims there, as it would have been against the very old the School’s Anglican tenets.
    He was Knighted in the UK for his scientific work.
    Kate Middleton, as was, and he went to the same School, at different times though.
    
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    November 12, 2024 3:11pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    IM. You are of course correct in that the great Israeli/Western Propaganda machine will support the Military Industrial complex lust for war(from which they make profits).
    
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    November 12, 2024 5:16pm
Matt Long

Yesterday’s post on US voters had a number of interesting points. .
1. The best generation post WWII, Gen X 😉, won the election for Trump at 55%, defeating both the coddled consumer boomers and the snowflake generations.
2. Jews bizarrely overwhelming voted for people who support antisemitism.
3. People with no religion voted overwhelming for state control, it appears religion is a bulwark against both fascism and communism.
4. Unmarried women also overwhelming support big government and state control.
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November 12, 2024 8:17am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Gen X 😉, won the election for Trump at 55%….
  
  Complete with their music: I haven’t yet stopped laughing at this use of Jump Around.
  
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  November 12, 2024 10:31am
Matt Long

There’s nothing Luxon likes about Seymour’s Treaty Principles Bill.
There’s many things I like about Luxon, but I don’t like it when bald angry Jacinda comes out.
Will he attempt to spike the NZF Covid enquiry as well?
https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepost.co.nz%2Fpolitics%2F360483161%2Fpm-says-he-gets-immense-frustration-about-treaty-principles-bill&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl1%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4
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November 12, 2024 8:22am
- G152
  
  Luxon should be very very careful as he only has so many ‘friendly’ votes
  
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  November 12, 2024 8:31am
  - Colville
    
    Luxon needs the Peters Party as much as he needs ACT.
    
    When the coalition was announced how many of us thought it would end in tears?
    
    After listening to Seymour speak on the subject of the Treaty Bills…I think he is playing a longer game. He will just wait Peters out. Peters is 79 and a shadow of is former self.
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:28am
    - Jack5
      
      What if the Coalition is beaten at the next election, which must be held at a maximum from today of 25 months and seven days?
      
      The smart strategy then would be for ACT and NZ First voters to join the National Party and reform it from within. Throw out the fossils. Then get a referendum so the people can dump the MMP electoral system.
      
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      November 12, 2024 10:30am
      - Michael Sommerville
        
        I disagree. The smart strategy would be for the National voters to join ACT and NZFirst and that would show National how out of touch they are.
        
        The best comment I have heard was from David Seymour. “National don’t take on the hard tasks and that is why I didn’t join National.” That echoes my feelings. National sorts things out but they don’t take on the really hard tasks that would change this nation for the better. Sorting out the Treaty (and its gravy train) would have huge benefits for this country. Roger Douglas knew what had to be done and did it. I can’t see this National party doing similar but they would have the support of ACT and NZFirst.
        
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        November 12, 2024 1:23pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        so the people can dump the MMP electoral system.
        
        Has only been endorsed in two referenda. I guess we can keep trying.
        
        Back to FPP probably the go? Worked real well for the last UK election.
        
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        November 12, 2024 4:02pm
  - OlderChas
    
    Well he sure as hell has lost mine forever over this.
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:51am
    - John Loveridge
      
      Mine too. The Treaty thing is a bottom line for me.
      
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      November 12, 2024 11:51am
- imalwaysright
  
  This could be Luxon’s “Captains Call”
  
  Ghost posted the coalition agreement on race relations and it is very difficult to see any difference from Seymour’s principles.
  
  Therefore it is very difficult to understand Luxon saying there is nothing in the bill that he agrees with.
  
  Does that mean Luxon now disagrees with the coalition agreement ?
  
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  November 12, 2024 8:35am
  - Souvlaki
    
    Time for Luxon to be rolled imo.
    A Kim Philby for National !
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:23am
    - Ghost
      
      Why, he’s doing what he campaigned on, he’s doing what was agreed to in the coalition agreement. Perhaps it’s time Seymour is rolled for only negoiating a deal that took this to the first reading.
      
      National and NZ First have their own way to accomplish this. You should celebrate that. There is more than one way to do this, national have chosen NZ Firsts way and when you look at there agreement for equal citizenship they’ve already started doing the things in it
      
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      November 12, 2024 9:30am
      - kiwikidsnz
        
        National & NZF’s all talk/no action appeasement policies & practices are a major reason we have spent the last 50 years getting ourselves into the current situation. With Labour cheering on.
        
        Exhibits: Palmer Mapp Finlayson Bolger Key…
        
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        November 12, 2024 9:45am
      - imalwaysright
        
        It looks like Luxon has signed an agreement of common principles and cross party commitments in order to get power, but then says he doesn’t agree with the same common principles being applied in a Bill.
        We know he stated he wouldn’t support the Bill, but the question many now have is how can he sign up to a set of principles under one heading, and then say he doesn’t agree with them under a different heading?
        
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        November 12, 2024 9:49am
      - Jack5
        
        A first reading gives people a chance to have a say.
        It’s not pointless. It keeps the constitution open for discussion, as it were.
        
        If only this had been the pattern in firearms reform.
        
        Thank you ACT for keeping the discussion open.
        
        Not bad, when State TV, State radio, and the subsidised newspapers are waging race revolution to the extent of eroding the status of the main language.
        
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        November 12, 2024 11:06am
    - coge
      
      Fish n chip brigade, 2024!
      
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      November 12, 2024 12:14pm
  - kowtow
    
    It’s Swamp stuff.
    
    The NZ Deep State is very commited to this race special treatment thing.
    
    To genuine liberal democratic principles , not so much .
    
    They need to learn from what appears to be a mood for change in the west against this elitist , bubble , establishment stuff.
    
    Brexit , Trump , Reform in UK ( see the minority that put Labour in and the disillusionment with the craven Conservatives) Canada will oust Turdeau . German polling will be very interesting. Holland and Sweden have followed trend . Italy and Hungary too .
    
    France proving to be almost impossible to form a stable govt.
    
    Interesting times.
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:58am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      I think the “NZ deep state” is primarily lefty posers going rogue and acting up. With some backbone this can be dealt with.
      
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      November 12, 2024 6:46pm
- Tomtoddy
  
  According to Luxon this morning the Treaty Principles Bill is “too simple” and reduces the complexities involved to items that avoid the Treaty’s nuances.
  
  I call BS on that. What is at stake is very simple – did the chiefs cede authority or didn’t they? The vast bulk of the evidence suggests they did and they did so knowingly. The Queen and her Whitehall minions were far too smart to settle for anything less. Colenso’s record makes it obvious that at least the majority knew what it was they were agreeing to. “We are one people” spoken by Hobson confirmed it.
  
  If they did sign away any sovereignty they might have had and it was at best a very tenuous right to an ill-defined area of land, then Seymour’s Bill is a sensible and logical confirmation of the rights and duties we have irrespective of race, creed or whatever. It is precisely what Parliament should be confirming.
  
  It seems Luxon is being obtuse. He says that sovereignty was ceded but eschews the Bill – trying to have a bob both ways. The majority who favour Seymour’s Bill need to give Luxon and electorate scare by submitting in massive numbers.
  
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  November 12, 2024 8:52am
  - David Garrett
    
    Tom: The Treaty Principles Bill is simple – but so is the Treaty (Remember when Cindy didn’t even know what was in it?).
    
    It consists of three simple paragraphs, each making a single point. Even the late Maori king – a former truck driver – had no trouble understanding it.
    
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    November 12, 2024 8:56am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Good point.
      The treaty is very simple. Considering the extensive literary abilities of the people of that time, it seems that they intentionally simplified the document for the purpose of clarity for both parties.
      
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      November 12, 2024 9:07am
    - Paulus
      
      But I’m am sure his University educated Daughter, Ngā Wai Hono i te Pō, is fully aware of its contents, and her advisors will tell her what to do, when she is allowed to speak !
      
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      November 12, 2024 3:17pm
  - pdm
    
    TT – it is becoming clearer by the day that Luxon and his Advisers on this matter have completely misread the mood of New Zealanders.
    
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    November 12, 2024 8:59am
  - PurplePen
    
    I’m in two minds about it. If the Treaty Principles are going to remain in legislation, then parliament needs to define them rather than having them defined by courts etc (ACT Party). The alternative is remove Treaty Principles from all legislation (NZ First). Which is the better course I haven’t decided. In the interim I’ll back both initiatives as an insurance policy.
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:13am
    - AitchW
      
      I think it’s better to have a written definition in legislation.
      That will stop activist judges from writing their own definition.
      
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      November 12, 2024 10:16am
      - David Garrett
        
        Aitch: As the three strikes law demonstrated very clearly, nothing will stop activist judges interpreting any law – no matter how clear – however they see fit.
        
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        November 12, 2024 1:00pm
      - Paulus
        
        No way, our Helen Clark decided top legal position will do everything they want to irrespective of anything.
        They remain above Parliament as they expect to be.
        
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        November 12, 2024 3:21pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Is it just me or does NZ have a serious problem with NZ judges being out of touch with reality, the Govt of the day, and the vast majority of NZers?
        
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        November 12, 2024 6:49pm
    - rouppe
      
      The government is reviewing 28 laws to remove references to the Treaty.
      
      I’ve yet to see any actual amendment to any of them, so we’ll see what happens when they are put before the House. If they are put before the House.
      
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      November 12, 2024 12:10pm
    - Paulus
      
      Bringing it into Legislation lends to codifying it hence the current position.
      Keep it away from Parliament which remains Paramount.
      
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      November 12, 2024 3:19pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      They have started removing them from legislation, they have to do this one piece of work at a time, i thought they started this work about mid October.
      
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      November 12, 2024 4:04pm
  - Yvette
    
    Tomtoddy – According to Luxon this morning the Treaty Principles Bill is “too simple” and reduces the complexities involved to items that avoid the Treaty’s nuances.
    
    What of rather than “avoiding the Treaty’s nuances”, you avoid the Treaty altogether –
    
    Does Luxon affirm the Government has the right to govern?
    – now a simple, stand-alone question. Without the Treaty.
    And: Are all New Zealanders equal in rights and responsibilities?
    
    – albeit that Treaty / constitutional arguments may occasion the question.
    When the Hīkoi mō te Tiriti arrives at Parliament will there be Police posted around the perimeter recognising the right of Government to govern?
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:34am
    - pdm
      
      Yvette – someone needs to tell Luxon that there were not many, if any at all, nuances in 1840.
      
      My understanding is that everything was very much black and white in those days and that was nothing to do with the skin colours of the participants..
      
      The nuances and various interpretations only started from when the Kirk Government took it on themselves to listen to a few activists. Then along came the academics like Geoffrey Palmer and his mates.
      
      Chaos and dubious interpretations since.
      
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      November 12, 2024 10:20am
  - judith8409121
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AcUiXBbT1c
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:26am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Thanks for posting that.
      Good explanation of the Principles word changes by the Govt.
      
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      November 12, 2024 11:25am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Oh Grief..
    
    Now I have to figure out what the nuances are…
    (can anyone enlighten me?)
    
    It’s been hard enough trying to locate all the principles….
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:34am
    - marcw
      
      It’s in the same class as “a more sophisticated form of democracy.”
      Wriggle room for “anything I want it to be, and you will simply comply plebs.”
      
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      November 12, 2024 11:24am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      You can make the nuances up as you go, to get the stuff you want.
      
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      November 12, 2024 6:50pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  His anger is at the vulgarities of the media, clearly he wants the bill over and done with. I see posters above saying he works with NZF but not act, let’s not forget the coalition agree states they will work this bill too first reading and vote on party lines, let’s not forget NZF are bitterly opposed to treat principles bill
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:14am
  - Yvette
    
    – let’s not forget NZF are bitterly opposed to the treaty principles bill
    
    Do we know why? – apart from Winston echoing the late Maori King and also say there are no principles, so there need be no bill – which in Winston’s case is an simple avoidance tactic in the face of reality.
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:40am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      But he has set about one by one taking separatist laws out of law.
      
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      November 12, 2024 4:07pm
- Matt Long
  
  New Zealand is crying out for decent leader like Argentina’s Milei, this speech to the UN is one of the best you will hear.
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:54am
  - Matt Long
    
    This speech, my mother interrupted my flow.
    https://x.com/HeadWarriorTWM/status/1855372163273863674
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:17am
  - Jack5
    
    Argentine’s economy is so bad any one with radical Right ideas would be a hero.
    
    Milei may be smart at economics, and the country’s best chance, but otherwise he’s batshit crazy.
    
    When the middle-aged bachelor’s English mastiff, Conan, died, he consulted the dog through a medium, and had four mastiff clones created.
    
    The Conservative Buenos Aires newspaper La Nación says Milei maintains that he and Conan met in a previous life more than 2,000 years ago as a gladiator and a lion in the Roman Colosseum. The pair did not fight because they were destined to join forces in the future, referring to his presidential campaign.
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:51am
  - kiwi_chileno
    
    Milei: “I did not come to herd sheep, I came to awaken lions.”
    
    Luxon: “I did not come to awaken lions, I came to herd sheep.”
    
    None of the pre-conditions for Milei exist (yet) in NZ, starting with the obvious one – there is no politician or outsider with the same charisma, conviction, and courage. Equipped to fight and win the battle of ideas. And NZ’ers are a passionless, apathetic people; who tolerate failure and decline; and who also think that the state is wise, benevolent, and abundant.
    
    Milei – The Series, From zero to president, episode 1/6 https://https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=LHfMHBwSPgw Also on X #LaSeriedeMilei
    
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    November 12, 2024 3:23pm
    - Jack5
      
      Whoops, or in Google Translate’s Spanish, ups …
      
      Kiwi-chileno, you’re not the first person to call New Zealanders “passionless”.
      
      Gordon McLauchlan, a media personality of the time, in 1976 wrote a book about NZ called The Passionless People.
      
      He likened New Zealanders’ personality to that of Prussians, but not because of any shared shared love of war.
      
      However, who were more sheepish? New Zealanders under Ardern, or Argentinians under Peron?
      
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      November 12, 2024 4:24pm
  - Paulus
    
    Wish ACT had a better grown up Leader, but I do not disagreee with what the present leader is doing.
    A better Leader would make for a contunious Coalition.
    
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    November 12, 2024 3:23pm
- judith8409121
  
  i don’t understand whats wrong with luxon but he seems to want separatism, tribalism, and racism. So be it – he is now tarred with these labels
  
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  November 12, 2024 10:24am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They are taking separatist law out of law right now.
    
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    November 12, 2024 4:08pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Shell Lane (The Terrace) bike rack report:

At 8.30am, zero bikes.

Another glorious morning in the Capital, ideal for cycling.
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November 12, 2024 8:31am
- AitchW
  
  Obviously too hot for the lycra warriors. You don’t want to get to work in a lather….
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:10am
- peterwn
  
  See that WCC plans to charge motorcyclists $1/ hour to park their bikes. How about a $0.50/hour coin slot on bike racks?
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:29am
  - alwyn.a
    
    I could be in favour of such a charge except for one small thing.
    Even if we assume that every cyclist who uses the racks paid the fee, is it worth employing someone to go round collecting the money?
    It would cost a minimum of $25/hour for each collector to gather up, on a generous estimate, about $2.50/day in fees. There aren’t any cyclists who use the bike lanes or bike racks.
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:23am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      I seem to recall that WCC had trouble with parking meter coin collectors and bus drivers, back in the day when they were Council employees.
      
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      November 12, 2024 10:40am
sirknz

Skip the article and go straight to the comments at the bottom.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360482253/brace-yourselves-president-donald-trumps-impact-global-sport

Just a quick timeline, the opinion piece masquerading as an article appears at 5am, the comments were closed by 7:30am when I saw this.

Do you think maybe that the three comments that made it through (possibly prior to deletion by the time you read this) are sharing the same theme as every other comment they likely received before closing comments?

The 3 comments are basically summarised as “What are you panicking about, you’re out of touch like the political elites”.
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November 12, 2024 8:38am
- PurplePen
  
  Thanks I think. I haven’t visited Stuff for months. Visiting today reinforced why.
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:17am
  - sirknz
    
    Had to scroll past the article for the quiz while having my coffee. Read the first couple of paragraphs and could see where it was going, saw the were comments and here we are.
    
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    November 12, 2024 1:30pm
Raphael

So CNN is floating the idea that Biden should resign, making Harris president, and then use Jan 6 to try and claim that Trump can’t be president.
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November 12, 2024 8:38am
- RoboRob
  
  Luckily for us Biden hates Kamala, as you can see from the joy in his speach about the outcome of the election the other day. There is no way in hell he will resign. They would have to use the 25th, and Kamala probably doesn’t want to use that.
  
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  November 12, 2024 8:43am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    The edited Michael Bay ending to this one is glorious.
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:42am
    - RoboRob
      
      Brilliant. This is the happiest we have seen Biden in some time. Note that Jill Biden even wore read when she voted. It would not be surprising to find out that Jill and Joe voted from Trump.
      
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      November 12, 2024 9:52am
      - Ronin
        
        She also wore golden shoes with that red suit, which could be another little hat tip to Trump.
        
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        November 12, 2024 11:43pm
- john1234
  
  And another CNN pundit suggested that Kamala replace Sotomayor on the SCOTUS!!!
  I think these people meet the criteria to be declared legally insane.
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:01am
  - leoj
    
    The Senate has to ratify supreme court judges. No time to do that and on Jan 20th the GOP has 53 senators. So, no chance.
    
    Phew!
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:32am
  - kowtow
    
    Harris is not nearly clever enough to be considered for the SC in USA .
    
    However she’d fit in very nicely on the NZ SC……..
    
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    November 12, 2024 12:47pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Nah, Kamala’d be too smart and insufficiently woke for NZ SC
      
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      November 12, 2024 4:35pm
- Scott
  
  Raphael, I think the 2024 election shows the diminishing power and reach of the mainstream legacy media. Despite overwhelming negative coverage by the likes of CNN and ABC, Donald Trump was elected by a large margin.
  
  We can note that CNN has an average prime time audience of 821, 000 viewers which is dwarfed by Fox news 3 million viewers.
  https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/overnight-cable-news-ratings-nov-1-4-2024/
  However Trump went on Joe Rogan. His 3 hour interview was listened to as a podcast or viewed on YouTube and other platforms by tens of millions of people! 40 million views on YouTube alone! That’s massive!
  The people, like me, who listened to the entire podcast heard a very engaging, non confrontational discussion with Donald Trump. Trump did not come across as Hitler. He came across as a person who is amusing, has a high opinion of himself sure but is also a regular person who many people, including young men, can relate to.
  
  The CNN newsreaders are going to have a hard time convincing the Joe Rogan audience that Trump should not be sworn in as the next president of the United States!
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:04am
- Steve Todd
  
  @Raphael @ 8:38AM
  
  […], and then use Jan 6 to try and claim that Trump can’t be president.
  
  How would Jan 6 be so “used”? You don’t explain, or provide a link to your source.
  
  Nothing short of personal tragedy can prevent Trump from being sworn in as president on 20 January.
  
  Were Harris to be POTUS on 6 January, the President pro tempore of the Senate — Senator Patty Murray (D–WA) — would carry out the duties she (Harris) would otherwise have been required to, i.e., open the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the votes of electors; hand the certificate(s) and any accompanying papers to the tellers; and call for objections, if any.
  
  That’s it. Everything else would proceed as normal and Harris’ presidency would terminate at 12 noon on 20 January.
  
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  November 12, 2024 10:09am
  - Raphael
    
    They’re trying to claim section 3 of the 14th Amendment, by claiming that Trump engaged in Insurrection on Jan 6 (when he actually did no such thing)
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:24am
    - Steve Todd
      
      It’s way too late for that*, and the Supreme Court would not play ball in any event.
      
      * That card needed to be played, successfully, prior to Trump becoming a candidate.
      
      Besides, even if such a ploy succeeded, all it would mean is that JD Vance would be sworn in as president on 20 January. Biden’s, or Harris’, presidency would still terminate at 12 noon on that day.
      
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      November 12, 2024 10:43am
  - Handyman
    
    Remember Clinton after her 2016 loss said the election was not legitimate and Trump was not a legitimate president. She called for the official electors to ignore their state’s wishes and vote for her (to save democracy etc). There was hope among the media that this could happen.
    
    The 2021 January 6 folk were wanting to get to the VP (Pence) to encourage him do the same thing. The difference was they were imprisoned for their attempt.
    
    That is why it was so important that the 2024 victory was “Too Big to Rig”.
    
    I’m sure Trump will enjoy the delicious irony of the current VP Harris counting the votes and declaring herself the loser.
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:53am
    - John Loveridge
      
      It bemuses me that people like Clinton shriek and screech in the wake of an election loss and want to subvert democracy in order to save democracy, apparently, yet shriek and screech even louder if Donald Trump claims election fraud. It all makes my brain hurt.
      
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      November 12, 2024 11:58am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Correction to my 10:09AM comment.
    
    With the Republicans taking control of the Senate on 3 January, Senator Chuck Grassley (R–IA), the current Dean of the Senate (longest serving senator) and current President pro tempore emeritus, would likely be appointed a second time as President pro tempore, and would therefore carry out the said duties on 6 January.
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:56am
- rouppe
  
  Oprah Winfrey said that if Americans don’t vote this time, they may never get to vote again, suggesting Trump will become a dictator.
  
  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/oprah-winfrey-harris-trump-election-rally-b2641577.html
  
  What CNN is floating is exactly the same behaviour, essentially removing the votes that were cast.
  
  Hypocritical much?
  
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  November 12, 2024 12:23pm
  - kowtow
    
    Did the article mention how much the Dems paid her.
    
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    November 12, 2024 12:53pm
- NothingLeft
  
  She could justifiably 25th ammendment him.
  
  Biden wants to hold on till at least early December to pardon Hunter after his sentencing (not sure if he can do it prior)
  
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  November 12, 2024 4:37pm
wisteria

As long as he comes out and meets the Hikoi mob then he will gain some popularity back. That was Jacinda’s problem. If she had come out and met the protesters at parliament then they would have gone away and not camped in the grounds for days.
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November 12, 2024 8:41am
- pdm
  
  Not sure that meeting the Hikoi will help Luxon’s popularity.
  
  He seems completely out of touch with ordinary New Zealanders and they (ordinary Ne Zealanders) will make up 0% of the Hikoi.
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:09am
  - mogg
    
    Appearing to be aloof by ignoring “the river of filth” allowed ordinary NZ to see the real Jacinda.
    Regardless of the reception Luxon should not ignore the Hikoi, by saying he will be available he is doing the right thing.
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:27am
  - Colville
    
    pdm.
    That is simply not true.
    They are ordinary New Zealanders, just because they are different to you and have a different view on things to you doesn’t make them any less a New Zealander.
    You dont get to decide on what they think just like they dont get to control you.
    Enjoy your freedom.
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:36am
    - pdm
      
      Maybe I did not word that as well as I could have Colville.
      
      Let me put it this way – Luxon will have 0% potential voters among the Hikoi.
      
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      November 12, 2024 10:25am
  - Cassandra
    
    Except that he’ll use the meeting to repeat that he won’t vote for the Principles Bill, thus perpetuating the myth that the ToW is a partnership.
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:14am
  - leoj
    
    Luxon’s credibility has been exposed.
    
    When living in Chicago he had Democrat signs in his front yard.
    
    I knew it! He’s an imposter, a closet leftist.
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:34am
    - cmm
      
      To be fair, the Democrat Party’s position on the political spectrum is approximately where National’s is.
      
      Acy is maybe closer to Republican and Labour off on the Bernie Sanders Democrat side.
      
      After all, John Key was BFF with Obama.
      
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      November 12, 2024 11:17am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      The democratic part has swung hard left, not so long-ago democratic party was seen as a right leaning party, Luxon was there way before this hard left shit show, let’s not forget Key appeared to be a democrat supporter
      
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      November 12, 2024 4:11pm
      - leoj
        
        Absolute poppycock. The Dems have always been lefties, infiltrated by communists.
        
        Clearly, you have no understanding of American politics or its history.
        
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        November 12, 2024 7:50pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Will the sprinklers be turned on?
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:41am
RoboRob

Email from my school yesterday….

‘Kia ora koutou,

For the purposes of implementing changes relating to the national curriculum and NCEA, we are scheduling one of our Teacher Only Days on Thursday 14th November. NCEA exams will run as usual for Year 11 – 13 students, but classes will not run for Year 9 and 10 students.’

Some may be surprised that it is a Thursday (and late notice). However rest assured Friday is a public holiday in Christchuch.

Teachers wonder why people suspect these ‘teacher only days’ are nothing but long weekends.
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November 12, 2024 8:47am
- AitchW
  
  Pure coincidence Robo. The teachers and their union have only the best interests of the students at heart.
  And if you believe that I have a bridge for sale you might like to look at….
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:42am
  - RoboRob
    
    Oh definately not a coincidence. However I do like this one, as it only impacts year 9-10 students.
    
    I understand the attraction of having the day beside a weekend (or long weekend) but if the teachers really wanted to show it was about work they could stick it on a different day.
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:27am
    - AitchW
      
      Did the Minister of Education not issue an instruction that teacher only days were NOT to be held during term time?
      Does that only take effect next year?
      Or is this yet another example of a hostile public service ignoring their minister?
      
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      November 12, 2024 10:43am
      - RoboRob
        
        I suspect all of the above!
        
        I am pretty sure the instruction has been given but the MOE is likely not implementing it until next year.
        
        I am also fairly sure my kids school had used all the teacher only days already this year. However I can only find one other email about a teachers only day so perhaps not.
        
        I know from David Seymour that MOE has not been actively tracking the number of teacher only days or checking if schools were meeting the legal number of school days a year.
        
        My kids school, and I am sure many others, does things like having an assembly early in the morning on the last day of school (or on oher occasions) and then letting the kids go home. I am sure this is counted towards the min number of days teaching per year.
        
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        November 12, 2024 11:50am
  - cmm
    
    Of course this is all for the “students”.
    
    Teachers need to be well rested to be able to perform at their best and give the “students” the rich and excellent education that they deserve.
    
    If the teachers are stressed then the “students” will be negatively impacted.
    
    … or something like that…
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:15am
- Jethrod
  
  You need to attend the School Gates from,….. mmmm 0800 , and do a roll call of teachers arriving for this TOD. Then a check out of the departure times later in the day, (Just quietly , it will probably be around 1145, with no returns in the afternoon).
  It would mean giving up a bit of your day, but would give a wealth of info on this rort of the education system.
  Of course it could mean you to can leave early on your own long weekend.
  
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  November 12, 2024 6:15pm
Matt Long

Australian Climate Catastrophiser MPs are ten thousand times more likely to own waterfront homes than the general population. It’s almost as if they’re trying to create moral panic to gain power and wealth.
When Noah believed in a global flood he built a boat.
https://x.com/Matt_Camenzuli/status/1855754758495309953
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November 12, 2024 9:03am
- kevn
  
  Matt… Not just Aussie pollies but the US had plenty of them as well. Marthas Vineyard Isle off Massachusetts seems to be a magnet location. Everyone wants to be close to Obama? Or //
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:14am
  - imalwaysright
    
    The sea level was an existential danger to Obama’s chef.
    
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    November 12, 2024 9:56am
Maggy Wassilieff

Very interesting opinion piece by Chris Trotter about the effect(s) a noisy minority can have on voters.

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2024/11/12/it-can-be-heard-above-even-the-most-determined-of-political-noise-makers-the-sound-of-the-majority-making-up-its-mind/#more-33497
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November 12, 2024 9:06am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Oh I don’t think too many will make up their mind to flip from change, back to non economically minded Labour, and with greens and these nutters TPM in cabinet
  
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  November 12, 2024 9:42am
- Jack5
  
  Another good column by Chris ~~Trotsky~~ Trotter.
  
  Add to Professor Biggar’s points: who’s holding the microphone or who’s passing the “mike” or “mikes” around at a meeting. They have power.
  
  In NZ discourse, holding the public-meeting microphones, as it were, are State TV, State radio and the subsidised newspapers – Leftists all.
  
  Distortion is inevitable.
  
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  November 12, 2024 12:03pm
Swifty

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/whanganui-chronicle/news/new-social-investment-board-member-helen-leahy-shares-her-vision/QYY4L3IGHFBVVLE5NTIXCKCBGA/

Doomed to failure, I strongly suspect, in the presence of:

1. An education system that large minorities of our children leave as failures.
2. Ongoing large imbalance between housing demand and supply.
3. The young, unskilled and brown priced out of our labour markets.
4. Rampant victimisation of our folk through crime.
5. The state incentivising family breakups and kids growing up in single-parent homes.
6. Illegal drugs destroying our families.
7. The pervasive narrative and belief that we are a shit country, full of racism and oppression, that we’ve never done anything good, that we’ve got nothing in common and our future is bleak as a result.

Until we address these few basics, anything else is just wasteful ambulance at the bottom of the cliff stuff.

After 40 years of seeing similar politicians, bureaucrats and policies rise and fall and come and go, I guarantee this initiative will go the same way but only after vast sums of taxpayer money has been wasted.
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November 12, 2024 9:20am
- artemisia
  
  Housing imbalance supply v demand. Word on the street, and also from Trademe’s rental updates based on their listings- supply is exceeding demand in some locations. Maybe many locations.
  
  Recent Trademe report – rental vacancies ‘skyrocketing’.
  
  Some prospective tenants finding it hard to be accepted – there will be reasons real or not, usually based on risk assessment. Upcoming changes, if passed into law, will again allow tenancy termination with no reason required instead of the current highly restrictive and extremely prescriptive process. That should help with the risk assessment. It may also increase the supply level as quite likely a wave of terminations will occur.
  
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  November 12, 2024 10:17am
  - Swifty
    
    Very interesting.
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:52am
  - AitchW
    
    I imagine that many landlords and their agents are very gunshy when it comes to tenants. Any hint of a problem in the past and they go on to the next applicant. Why take a risk on a tenant when the law so overwhelmingly favours the tenants rights over the landlords?
    I’m glad we sold our rentals 6 years ago!
    
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    November 12, 2024 12:50pm
  - Colville
    
    artemisia
    I am aware of people wishing to sell that cant (or wont accept price on offer ) so are renting out for a year in hope of market rebound so there is a glut in “nice” houses for rent at the mo’.
    
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    November 12, 2024 1:38pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Generation X propels Trump to victory.
It’s not just the Boomers and Millennials who want stability.
I wonder if the voters have learnt to ignore the fake news media?

https://politicalactionalerts.com/generation-x-propels-trump-to-victory-in-2024-highlighting-desire-for-stability/?
https://x.com/the_typical_lib/status/1854558914680926287
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November 12, 2024 9:55am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Yep. It was Gen-X Wot Won It:
  We grew up not caring about Boy George wearing a dress. Who you slept with. What color you are. And then the whole progressive machinery spent the last decade calling us racist, sexist Nazis. … Enough is enough.
  
  “We just wanted to be left alone, but they had to piss us off completely.”
  
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  November 12, 2024 10:34am
  - Swifty
    
    Thanks Tom.
    
    This was excellent:
    
    https://pjmedia.com/megan-fox/2024/11/07/genx-delivered-for-trump-and-theyre-not-afraid-to-tell-you-why-n4934064
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:27am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      “They tried to force a nanny state on a group of people who’ve never had a nanny, in fact, many barely had parental supervision”.
      
      Pretty succinct explanation really.
      
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      November 12, 2024 3:17pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Parental supervision? Baaa!
        1959 – 7 years old, down in the gully shooting rats with my .177 slug gun.
        Parental supervision my left tit. Now we have “helicopter” parents ffs.
        
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        November 12, 2024 4:00pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump’s Potential Cabinet Sparks Speculation And Anticipation.
Sorry this is not from reliable news sources like CNN, MSNBC, or TVNZ (TV1)

https://conservativeadvocacy.com/trumps-potential-cabinet-sparks-speculation-and-anticipation/?
Here’s who may come with him:
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/now-trumps-won-heres-who-may-come-white-house-him?
Good to see Elon Musk and Tulsi Gabbard there, as well as RFK jr.
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November 12, 2024 10:03am
- alwyn.a
  
  I can’t see any chance at all of Musk being offered any important role.
  You can’t have two alpha males in the Cabinet. Musk won’t be offered any important role in the Government. It would detract from Musk’s aura of being the only important person.
  The NY Times is not terribly reliable but I think that in this opinion piece they are spot on.
  “There’s room for only one star, one genius in the Trump White House. As the president-elect has told us time and again, he is one smart fellow and a “very stable genius.” He is not going to share his victory and center stage with anyone. ”
  https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/11/opinion/elon-musk-trump-election.html
  
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  November 12, 2024 10:35am
  - alwyn.a
    
    Damn. I meant to say “It would detract from TRUMP’s aura ” in line 3.
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:05am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Trump wants Musk for cleaning up the waste in the Public Sector. A money saving exercise to get rid of the bloat.
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:45am
    - Colville
      
      I dont see Musk as being that fine detail line by line type of person required for that. He is like Trump a big ideas guy. He was the right guy pre election but will move aside and let a bean counter do it.
      
      Musk wants to go to Mars!
      
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      November 12, 2024 1:42pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        He has done the line by line stuff at times in past working on Tesla cost control – specifically having to approve all purchase payments for a period of time.
        
        But the reason he is richest in the world is that he is the best in the world at identifying and inspiring the best people to delegate to – and giving them guidance to making best decisions.
        
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        November 12, 2024 4:33pm
  - Ghost
    
    It would likely be an advisor roll, he won’t want to be away from his companies
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:49am
- Handyman
  
  Musk cannot be a cabinet member. Well OK he can in theory, but cabinet members are restricted as to what they can own. Musk cannot own SpaceX with its multibillion federal contracts and be an official cabinet member.
  Most likely he will be a “special advisor” to avoid having to be grilled by a bipartisan senate committee.
  
  I want to see RFK Jr release the details of his uncle’s murder.
  
  FYI, the cabinet in the US is not like the cabinet in NZ. Under Biden, it met for the first time in 12 months recently and the meeting was chaired by his unelected civilian wife.
  
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  November 12, 2024 11:10am
  - AitchW
    
    RFK Junior appears to be slightly unhinged IF what has been posted is true.
    According to X he’s given an undertaking to stop all chemtrailing.
    Let us hope for Trump’s sake that the reporting is fake news!
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:49am
imalwaysright

Not sure why abuse victims are now called survivors.
The victims have my sympathy, but this appellation seems to be a construction of the media.

Also, keenly awaiting the mass arrest of the abusers…..
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November 12, 2024 10:05am
- Inandout
  
  ima, then back to reality.
  https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/what-happened-to-people-displaced-by-the-second-world-war
  
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  November 12, 2024 10:34am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Some (many) of the abuse victims in State care did not survive.
  
  My school friend Jenny Westrupp died on the toilet floor at Porirua Hospital during an Asthma attack when staff failed to answer the emergency button/call.
  
  (Details of the other patients trying to get help for her were revealed in one of the evidence statements at the Abuse in Care hearings)
  
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  November 12, 2024 10:49am
  - Swifty
    
    Literally one of the first things I was told as I was taken to my slot at Crawford for a short holiday back in ‘91 was “under no circumstances was I to press the alarm button.”
    
    It was expressed with different words, but that was the gist.
    
    It was never to be used. Ever.
    
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    November 12, 2024 10:59am
  - imalwaysright
    
    MW,
    Very sad about your friend.
    That’s my point that there are many calling themselves survivors who were nowhere near the level of danger of your friend.
    They try to clothe themselves in her and others suffering and attain a level of victimhood that they haven’t suffered.
    That, in itself , minimises the suffering and consequence of those who didn’t survive.
    
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    November 12, 2024 12:47pm
- Ghost
  
  Would you rather be a survivor or a victim? No it hasn’t come from media.
  
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  November 12, 2024 11:02am
  - imalwaysright
    
    What a ridiculous question. Would you mind explaining it?
    
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    November 12, 2024 12:51pm
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Many victims of horrific crimes don’t actually like being called “victims” as it takes away their agency. Most choose survivor instead.
      Personally, I prefer to not be labeled at all.
      
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      November 12, 2024 3:15pm
Swifty

“Stand down now! You’re a disgrace!”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/533518/watch-live-survivors-of-abuse-in-care-speak-ahead-of-national-apology
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November 12, 2024 10:55am
kevn

Meanwhile in the US, the new broom is sweeping…
https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/1855841037769470295
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November 12, 2024 10:56am
Swifty

The new US border czar:

https://x.com/SpartaJustice/status/1855895034790318524/

My god the Biden/Harris administration was a shit show. And they paint themselves as the humane ones…

[Page not found error. mod]
[Mod – different mod, fixed link]
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November 12, 2024 11:09am
- Swifty
  
  Sorry mod, not sure what’s going on there – plays fine for me.
  
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  November 12, 2024 11:30am
  - kevn
    
    Swifty.. No go for me.
    
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    November 12, 2024 11:58am
  - Swifty
    
    Thanks very much to both mods.
    
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    November 12, 2024 1:09pm
    - kevn
      
      Swifty… Important that folk see the calibre of staff Trump is choosing. Plenty more to follow.
      
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      November 12, 2024 5:23pm
cmm

In South Africa they went from having, effectively, a single party state (the ANC) to a dual part “mega-party” alliance between the ANC and the DA. The DA was previously the opposition.

I have previously suggested that the same could easily happen here: a “mega party” alliance between Labour and National.

Before the elections, National was looking like Labour-lite. Since the elections they have only reenforced that position.

I think that we are now in a state where National is closer to Labour than they are to Act and NZF. Similarly, Labour are closer to National than to Green and TPM.

Let’s just stop pretending we really have opposing parties in NZ. We really have a mega-party coalition that puts on a show of confrontation – a bit like that fake professional wrestling.
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November 12, 2024 11:27am
- imalwaysright
  
  NZ is the land of sheep.
  Sheep regress to the median.
  One flock
  
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  November 12, 2024 12:27pm
- kowtow
  
  No one should be surprised if they did .
  
  This is happeneing in other places too.
  
  Ireland’s 2 supposed opposing parties are in a very cosy ruling coalition .
  
  Germany has had so called left and right coalitions .
  
  No doubt other examples .
  
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  November 12, 2024 1:04pm
Jack5

Things they don’t want our money in – any industries connected with: global warming, tobacco, guns ….

Now, the State-subsidised Leftist blogs are upset the NZ Superannuation Fund has investments in Israel.

The Fund has $29.5 million in five Israeli software and IT companies. That’s smart! Israelis are good at technology, shown not least by their Nobel Prizes.

The fund also has s $5,996,326 in Israeli sovereign bonds Government stock.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/11-11-2024/the-nz-super-fund-has-israeli-investments-worth-35m-could-it-divest
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November 12, 2024 11:49am
- mandk
  
  The Spinoff could at least have named the Israeli companies so I can invest in them.
  
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  November 12, 2024 3:01pm
  - Ghost
    
    https://nzsuperfund.nz/assets/Disclosures/Portfolio-Disclosures/Portfolio-disclosure-as-at-Jun-2024.xlsx
    
    Look under Israel
    
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    November 12, 2024 3:09pm
Swifty

Hahahahahhahahha!

Usually it’s the Maori Party people doing the theatre, antics and disruptions.

Today however,

Karl Mokaraka – “Maori Party, stop the division!”

Debbie Packer – “Get out!”

Hahahhahaha!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/abuse-in-state-care-christopher-luxon-heckled-by-karl-mokaraka-in-the-house/3HUDHYAXTZBLNCMR7AC2LMSON4/
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November 12, 2024 1:17pm
- Ghost
  
  Stuff claim the prime minister was heckled. The guy thanked the pm, thanked the speaker, told Māori party to stop the division. Well done stuff
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360483922/pm-christopher-luxon-heckled-while-giving-apology-state-abuse-survivors
  
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  November 12, 2024 1:43pm
  - Swifty
    
    They can’t help themselves.
    
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    November 12, 2024 2:20pm
  - Bobba Fret
    
    The media know how to turn it negative against Luxon.
    
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    November 12, 2024 3:16pm
Swifty

Le Leche League founder quits in disgust:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14070057/Founder-worlds-oldest-Breastfeeding-charity-QUITS-transgender-women.html?ico=article_preview_xp_mobile
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November 12, 2024 1:23pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Indeed. She stated: ‘This shift from following the norms of nature, which is the core of mothering through breastfeeding, to indulging the fantasies of adults, is destroying our organisation.’
  
  Enough said.
  
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  November 12, 2024 2:19pm
Hugh Jarse

The Israelis also do a very good line in pagers and small hand held radios I believe. Possibly only single use though ?
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November 12, 2024 1:34pm
I remember when

Why did every possible yellow card during the weekend seem to result in a deep and meaningful investigation.
Except a head clash by the Scottish hooker.
Was it because they had already had one red card and a player was still in the bin?
It was obvious so could hardly have been missed by the match officials.
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November 12, 2024 1:50pm
Swifty

Pharmac to disestablish it’s Maori Advisory Board:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/533562/pharmac-to-disestablish-its-maori-advisory-group

A pity RNZ didn’t see fit to disclose that the chap criticising the Coalition, and who resigned from Pharmac, Dr Anthony Jordan, is Labour MP Shannon Halbert’s husband.

You know, in the interest of transparency and while RNZ among other media outlets are so keen to highlight National and ACT’s relationships to government and cast them
in a sinister light.
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November 12, 2024 2:48pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Perhaps RNZ don’t believe that two men can be married. //
  
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  November 12, 2024 7:55pm
NothingLeft

2024 Wisconsin 100k 3am ballot dump (about 3% of total) that was insufficient to beat Trump for the states electoral college votes, but handed some down-ballot wins in senate and congress to Democrats:
https://media.scored.co/post/Kpvc7zfvBUuQ.png

This dump was about 5:1 Democrat to Republican. More extreme than any community’s demographic in USA polled, so clearly fraudulent.

Head of Rassmussen polling says similar fuckery in results of all swing states, results that are statistically unbelievably anomalous – with video of out of state trucks and odd bods carrying suitcases etc showing up at some counting centers in middle of the night.
https://x.com/RealAlexJones/status/1856071108946014526

Trump really did make it too big to rig, overwhelming the scale of the democrat fraud machine but not by much.
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November 12, 2024 3:21pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Peter Williams Substack.

Luxon misses the mark.

https://open.substack.com/pub/peterallanwilliams/p/luxon-misses-the-mark?
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November 12, 2024 3:31pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Secret Service officials meddled in a probe to hide this awful reality facing Donald Trump. Time for some serious upper level sackings.

https://patriotpulse.net/secret-service-officials-meddled-in-a-probe-to-hide-this-awful-reality-facing-donald-trump/?
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November 12, 2024 4:45pm
Sparrow

Could kiwibloggers help me out. I have just watched Shawn Plunketts explanation of the news conference with the Prime Minister ref David Seymours Bill. I am neither a supporter of Luxon, come to that any politician and rarely tune into The Platform. However I found myself fully agreeing with Plunkett. As Luxon is openly and violently against the Bill why is he prolonging the agony of having it go through Parliament. Yes I know its in the agreement with ACT but surely as we all know his and Nationals position pull the rug now. ACT are not going to run away. If this farce continues we all know what’s going to happen, the hikoi is just the beginning. I am supportive of the Bill we need this discussion but it’s doomed from the start. So why stir up the shit ?
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November 12, 2024 5:25pm
- Mike
  
  Because national made solemn promises in its coalition agreements to give its fringe parties an opportunity to see if stoking racist sentiment would pay off for them in 2026.
  
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  November 12, 2024 7:29pm
  - rouppe
    
    The biggest stokers of racism are those in The Maori Party along with their supporters and backers.
    
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    November 13, 2024 7:45am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  After it has gone to select committee and they have received a mountain of letters/emails in support of the Bill, Luxon will find it has to go to the country.
  
  The present “Hikoi” and the antics of TPM is turning the av Kiwi against TPM and the stirrers.
  
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  November 12, 2024 7:55pm
Bridgenag

Bring it on…..

COVID Dissident Wins MASSIVE Lawsuit [ 12m]
| The Daily Dose
10 shocking stories the media buried today

.https://open.substack.com/pub/vigilantfox/p/covid-dissident-wins-massive-lawsuit?r=4av704&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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November 12, 2024 5:33pm
kevn

Swifty… Important that folk see the calibre of staff Trump is choosing. Plenty more to follow.
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November 12, 2024 6:11pm
NZer In Exile

And, this week in far left insanity, from Zero Hedge.

Deranged haters of the far left suggest to other deranged people on social media that they should poison Trump supporters with deadly poison.

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/white-liberal-cat-ladies-reveal-battle-plan-poison-trump-men-aqua-tofana

If real (IE not a foreign AI construction designed to cause further division and mistrust) these women are dumber than a box of rocks for putting their faces to these totally evil and insane suggestions.
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November 12, 2024 6:22pm

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