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November 11, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 11 November 2024

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General Debate

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Cassandra

Today is Remembrance Day, the end of the Great War which changed the world forever. It ended the rule of the Kaiser, swept away the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires, enabled the Bolsheviks to take over Russia, impoverished Britain and enriched America. Directly and indirectly it also set the scene for WWII. But this day, like ANZAC Day, is a time to remember the sacrifice of the millions who died, including 17,000 New Zealanders and 60,000 Australians. And for good measure: did you know that the French navy and army lost 10,000 dead on Gallipoli?
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November 11, 2024 8:03am
- cmm
  
  ” Directly and indirectly it also set the scene for WWII.”
  It was really just one war with a 20-ish year half time.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:11am
  - Michael Johnston
    
    There’s a plausible argument that it was less than that: Japan invaded Machuria in 1931.
    
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    November 11, 2024 8:16am
    - Jimbo666
      
      But Japan had changed sides for they fought with the allies in WW1.
      
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      November 11, 2024 8:57am
    - CrazyIvan
      
      Even less than that. Lots of fighting continued beyond the end of WWI – the Russian Civil War, the Soviet-Polish War that ended with the Miracle on the Vistuala in 1920, the Greek invasion of Turkey that went through to the early 1920s.
      
      So perhaps only 20 years of conflict punctuated with ten years of peace
      
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      November 11, 2024 10:37am
  - Simon
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    “It was really just one war with a 20-ish year half time”
    
    Wrong. UK & French didnt need to fight WW2. Ended giving Poland to the commies anyway.
    
    WW2 was a terrible mistake for Britain.
    
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    November 11, 2024 8:23am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Wasn’t France invaded by Germany?
      
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      November 11, 2024 8:45am
      - Matt Long
        
        It was the invasion of Poland, and treaties between the Allies that gave Germany grounds for the invasion of France.
        https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Fen.m.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFranco-Polish_alliance%23%3A~%3Atext%3DThe%2520Franco%252DPolish%2520Alliance%2520was%2Ccornerstones%2520of%2520French%2520foreign%2520policy.&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl1%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4
        
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        November 11, 2024 9:01am
      - Jack5
        
        And Matt, the harshness of the Armistice agreed to on November 11, 1918.
        
        It didn’t end the effects of the naval blockade of Germany immediately, probably because the Armistice wasn’t officially transformed into the Treaty until 28 June 1919.
        
        Estimates of German civilian deaths from the blockade range from 424,0o0 to 763,000, with as many as 100,000 dying after the signing of the Armistice.
        
        Perhaps surprisingly to us now, Winston Churchill was one of those who worked for food help for the people of Germany.
        
        https://winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour/finest-hour-145/history-detectives-churchills-efforts-to-feed-germany-after-the-great-war/
        
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        November 11, 2024 10:45am
      - rangitoto
        
        Germany and the Soviet Union who were allies at the time, jointly started WWII with their invasion of Poland. The Soviet Union also attempted to invade Finland a few months later and they did grab some territory but suffered massive loses from the resolute defense of the Finish forces. So Finland have seen RuZZian antics before which is why they decided to join NATO last year.
        
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        November 11, 2024 11:33am
    - john1234
      
      Ah. Appeasement.
      Never works.
      
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      November 11, 2024 8:47am
      - Jake Dee
        
        That’s just because the term “Appeasement” is just a political rhetorical dodge, it doesn’t describe anything in reality. Like “terrorism’ it is a snarl term only ever used to describe what those bad people over there do never what us good people over here do.
        If there is a peace treaty that involves concessions to the opposition (as all treaties do) which then later falls over, people scream “Appeasement ! Appeasement !”
        In the treaty of the Pyrenees Maria Theresa renounced her claim to the Spanish throne. Aargh! Appeasement ! Appeasement!
        But Louis XIV had to relinquish territory in Catalonia. Aargh! Again appeasement! Again appeasement!
        But the treaty has held since 1659 so no one is allowed to scream appeasement. Appeasement never works because it is only ever appeasement when it doesn’t work.
        
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        November 11, 2024 8:01pm
    - Matt Long
      
      Breaking treaties that involve the defense of allies is an interesting concept.
      Something of a can of worms.
      
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      November 11, 2024 9:03am
    - peterwn
      
      It was predominantly a defence operation on the part of the British. First line was to keep the Germans out of the UK (including its airspace). No one in Britain seriously questioned the need for this. The second line was to disable German capability as far as possible otherwise the Germans would have ultimately overwhelmed the British defences.
      Anyone who thinks that things would remain normal in Britian after a successful German invasion were just deluding themselves. Yet there are people who still think this.
      
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      November 11, 2024 9:04am
      - pdm
        
        pw – a bit like the French laying claim to NZ instead of the English.
        
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        November 11, 2024 9:16am
    - Rusty
      
      @Simon, in 1940 France had the biggest and most modern army in Europe. They could have defeated Hitler without Britain.
      
      But leadership was incompetent.
      
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      November 11, 2024 9:30am
      - Jack5
        
        For the military history lovers …
        
        Yes, the French had more tanks. This, from the source below, explains their weakness:
        
        “They were not seen as independent units, but spread among infantry units for close support on the battlefield. For this reason strong armour was of capital importance, the speed was “infantry pace” and the low-velocity guns were meant to deal with concrete fortifications and pillboxes. These were all related to trench warfare and the experience of WWI.
        
        “All these models, until 1937 at least, were designed for the same kind of operations practised in 1918.
        
        “Consequently the French tanks were generally slow … and relatively underpowered.
        
        ” … Range was also limited by a greater consumption, but the tactical needs were limited in scope to the WWI typical battlefield, a 50-100 km area of operations.
        
        “Radio communication between tanks was sorely lacking, with flags and couriers used instead. The common practice in 1935 was that only command tanks possessed a long-range radio.
        
        https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/france
        
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        November 11, 2024 11:09am
    - all true
      
      Did you sitting behind a column in the history class
      
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      November 11, 2024 9:52am
- Paulus
  
  They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning, We will remember them.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:36am
- MCōs
  
  The armistice was signed on 11-11-18 and 11-November was Armistice Day until the end of WWII when it became Remembrance Day, but it’s pretty much ignored in NZ in favour of Anzac Day
  I’m in Ashburton right now and according to the local paper it’s still Armistice Day here.
  
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  November 11, 2024 9:01am
  - Jack5
    
    Ashburton … long ago had an old Bofors anti-aircraft gun in a park. Kids loved to play on it when southern families paused en route to Christchurch.
    
    Then peaceniks took it away …
    
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    November 11, 2024 10:21am
    - MCōs
      
      It’s at the Ashburton Aviation Museum where’s it’s been for the last 34yrs since it was gifted by the Late Mr. R. A. Burnett
      https://www.aviationmuseum.co.nz/our-exhibits/
      
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      November 11, 2024 3:28pm
      - Mike
        
        It would have helped if Jack5 had made it clear the museum was run by peaceniks.
        
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        November 11, 2024 4:40pm
      - Jack5
        
        Doesn’t look like the same gun, Cossie.
        
        The park/playground Bofors was in a much rougher state and wasn’t mobile – no gun carriage with wheels, etc. Nor were there dummy 4omm shells.
        
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        November 11, 2024 5:18pm
Yvette

The late Maori King said “There’s no principles, the Treaty is written. That’s it” while the Waitangi Tribunal has published –

Principle 3, the ‘right to equality’, [of the Government’s Waitangi Principles Bill] bears no resemblance to the texts and meaning of article 3. The Crown’s promises were made to Māori, not ‘everyone’. The right to equality was important but was only one of the rights promised to Māori as the rights and privileges of British subjects. The Queen’s protection, from which the principle of active protection is partly derived, has been left out of Principle 3. Also, Māori face barriers to equality that others do not, and many of those barriers were of the Crown’s making. This means that equitable treatment is required to ensure outcomes that are more equal. Equality without equitable treatment does not capture the promises made in article 3 or the meaning of the Treaty/te Tiriti as a whole. We found that Cabinet’s decision to introduce Principle 3 in a Bill is a breach of the principles of partnership, equity, and active protection.
https://forms.justice.govt.nz/search/Documents/WT/wt_DOC_217933408/Nga%20Matapono%20W.pdf?

– as a prelude to any discussion, where is an exact copy of the Maori Version of the Treaty, and a parallel verbatim English translation of that, in one easily accessible place – surely an official website as an information duty of the Crown – so people may see for themselves what the Treaty says or doesn’t say.

Like the reference in Article 3 which appears to be the only mention of any connection in the Treaty to the rest of New Zealand’s population – the roughly eighty percent not addressed by the Maori / Crown document – the reference being “… ki ana mea ki nga tangata o Ingarani” – ‘… the people of England’ – not other persons settled in New Zealand

_____________

And can Christopher Luxon clarify whether voting on the stages, at least the first, on his Government’s Waitangi Principles Bill, will be a Conscience Voting or Party Block Voting?

I suspect Hon Paul Goldsmith for one may wish to vote in a way different to Christopher Luxon, and that others would like to represent their constituents views in the same way – so as to not be –

unfair, discriminatory, and inconsistent with the principles of partnership and reciprocity, active protection, good government, equity, and redress, and contrary to the article 2 guarantee of rangatiratanga or in breach of the Crown’s duty to act honourably and with the utmost good faith, to entertain ‘principles’ that contain inaccurate representations of the text and spirit of the Treaty/te Tiriti and warped interpretations of te reo Māori from te Tiriti o Waitangi, to be a breach of the duty to act in good faith and to act reasonably.
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November 11, 2024 8:03am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The Maori version of the Treaty was translated from what became known as The Littlewood Draft. It was given to Henry Littlewood for safekeeping. The English version was written by William Hobson and James Busby and translated to Maori by Henry Williams and his son Edward.
  
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  November 11, 2024 9:10am
  - Yvette
    
    My point, Steve, is access for anyone who wants it – in relation to the present issue of ACTs introduced bill and the hikoi gathered to ‘march’ on Parliament – to an officially recognised version of the Treaty as reference, to fact check the various claims people will make?
    
    The Maori King wanted the Treaty enshrined in legislation. So just what exact version was that – did anyone in New Zealand bother to ask him that, while he was still here?
    
    Where is any state television impartial documentary series on the matter. TVNZ and NZ On Air are paid millions so where is a current affairs programme setting out information on the issue?
    All in the too bloody hard kite?
    
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    November 11, 2024 9:31am
    - I remember when
      
      Or kete.
      
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      November 11, 2024 11:23am
      - Yvette
        
        Right, than you
        
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        November 11, 2024 12:23pm
    - Cantabrian
      
      The ‘official text’ of both the Maori and English version can be found in the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1975/0114/latest/whole.html#DLM435834
      
      Unfortunately, as you know the Littlewood draft did not appear until 1989 and it has never been acknowledge by a government as being the real source of the Maori version. To so acknowledge would undo 50 years of mischief, and force the gravy train to a halt.
      
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      November 11, 2024 11:43am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        That Littlewood Draft original was given to Archives NZ by the Govt of the day and it has never been seen since.
        I don’t think they lost it – someone destroyed it imo.
        
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        November 11, 2024 5:24pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The version the Maori King referred to I don’t know.
      There is the Treaty in Maori which was written in English by Hobson and Busby, That is what became The Littlewood Draft.
      Then there is a version in English written by James Freeman which is the rogue version that the Waitangi Tribunal uses, because of the false statements in it.
      I don’t know which version the Maori King was thinking of or referred to.
      The access to the English Littlewood Draft, The Maori translation, and the rogue version are all available.
      Beware that the google machine is very very corrupted on this, as are other search engines.
      
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      November 11, 2024 4:50pm
- PurplePen
  
  Excellent idea. Have sent on to Seymour and also National Party rep.
  
  Sarc/ Maybe we could get Ardern back with her one source of truth.
  
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  November 11, 2024 10:01am
Biscuit

Back home after a beaut trip for Randwick’s Everest raceday.

Australian media is terrible.

Oh, sure they managed to report the important news – Wellington becoming NPC Rugby Champions and Liverpool continuing to star in European Football – but, for the life of me, I could find no mention of that little election thing over in the US.

Who won?

And if, as all the pollsters seemed to suggest would happen, it was Kamala, is Steve Otto on any sort of suicide watch?
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November 11, 2024 8:07am
- pdm
  
  I was just thinking the other day Biscuit that you were MIA.
  
  Then I thought does anyone really care that he has `gone bush’ like Keith Murdoch did about 50 years ago.
  
  You were away that long you could have walked the perimeter of the `lucky country’. lol.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:13am
  - Biscuit
    
    Your ‘concern’ is noted, pdm!
    
    Thou varlot.
    
    Actually, after the Everest we did a l-o-n-g drive, Sydney to Perth via the Nullarbor, which I’ve always wanted to do – with a few stops including, of course, the Barossa Valley vineyards.
    
    Coming back, we ‘slummed it’ in the Indian Pacific train.
    
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    November 11, 2024 8:28am
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      That’s interesting, Biscuit.
      Whilst the Election was in its final carry-on you drove the Nullarbor. That Nullarbor drive would have been as interesting as a Kamala Harris speech.
      Did you do any kackling once you backed a winner at Gloucester Park?
      
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      November 11, 2024 9:31am
      - Biscuit
        
        I was on a promise, Tauhei.
        
        I was allowed to do Everest Day and also last Saturday’s meet at Rosehill provided I didn’t do any other race meetings AND restricted myself to just one casino visit.
        
        A saint? Moi? Hush, you’ll make me all embarrassed!
        
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        November 11, 2024 11:12am
    - Skippytony
      
      I did Syd, Mel, Adelaide, Perth, Albany and back to Sydney in 11 days, many years ago. 10,500k round trip.
      
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      November 11, 2024 11:06am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Driving all the way? You’ll not have seen too much except through the windscreen!
        
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        November 11, 2024 12:43pm
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  Biscuit, apart from the result, everything else was hot air.
  Well, maybe some of the “what now” informed opinion pieces were of interest but relying on journalists for useful information is a lost cause nowadays.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:32am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I am happy and fine, Biscuit. I picked the Electoral College to be 312/226 to Trump. I think that was pretty dam close!
  
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  November 11, 2024 9:12am
  - Biscuit
    
    Ah, good to hear, Steve.
    
    Now, will the electioneering for the midterms of 2026 begin before or after Christmas 2024?
    
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    November 11, 2024 11:09am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Before the midterms Trump has to get all the ducks in a row and start suing them.
      Jack Smith, Merchan, Engoron. Bragg, Letitia James, and Lots of others.
      They tried to derail him with political witch hunt prosecutions and ridiculous bail/bonds it was beyond a joke. He said they will be in the crosshairs.
      
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      November 11, 2024 5:30pm
      - leoj
        
        I bloody well hope so.
        
        The leftist bastards need to learn so that it doesn’t happen again.
        
        Dems are nasty and the only way they will understand is if they get pummeled. Let ’em off and they will do it again.
        
        Even the sham/scam 2020 election needs to be revisited.
        
        Just because they lost, there should be no sympathy for these pricks. Get ’em and thump them – hard!
        
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        November 11, 2024 8:43pm
Tomtoddy

I am out of the country at the moment and struggling to keep up with news but I have yet to see any coherent and logic response from anyone to Seymour’s Treaty Principles Bill.

Has there been any effort to provide a constructive reply dealing logically and dispassionately with the points raised in the Bill? I have seen emotive, irrelevant nonsense but little else. What is the actual objection or isnt there one?
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November 11, 2024 8:07am
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  DS was “interviewed” by Jenny M-C on breakfast and he slayed her, with his usual courtesy. Well worth a look.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:34am
  - leoj
    
    What an absolute f#*kwit that woman is.
    
    Has she read the bill? I bet not.
    
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    November 11, 2024 8:45pm
- rouppe
  
  The objection is that defining a limited set of principles would arrest the rapidly expanding set of claims by Maori activists for, well, everything.
  
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  November 11, 2024 10:30am
artemisia

Rural families panic as government slashes school bus routes Quite sad to see the unrelenting negativity, apart from Federated Farmers which is looking for solutions.

Catastrophe, whatever will we do, because apparently – small towns will be abandoned, students will stop attending class, if they have to wait for a bus after school “of course there is a chance these boys will get up to mischief or cheekiness.”

Whatever happened to setting young people an example of actual problem solving instead of panicked wailing. And whatever happened to #8 wire?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/thedetail/533395/rural-families-panic-as-government-slashes-school-bus-routes
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November 11, 2024 8:08am
- cmm
  
  Number 8 wire has been replaced by going down to WINZ and filling out form number 8 for a hand out.
  
  Individual resilience was still part of the national self image when I arrived in NZ in 1992. It is long dead.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:14am
  - David Garrett
    
    cmm: Sadly I agree. And have you noticed that these days everyone is “on a journey”?? This morning on Stuff I read about two inverts who have been a couple on and off – well they are not the Lone Ranger there – but now they are “on a house buying journey” together. In other words they are going to buy and share a house.
    
    I hope both of them have good lawyers, because that scenario is one fraught with danger: Invert number one decides he wants to resume their “couples journey”. Invert number two instead brings home some rent boy…Of course the scenario would be just as fraught with danger if they were straight.
    
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    November 11, 2024 8:27am
    - Jethrod
      
      Excuse ignorance, but what is an “invert”?
      
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      November 11, 2024 8:37am
      - David Garrett
        
        Jethrod: In modern parlance, a homosexual.
        
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        November 11, 2024 9:27am
- pdm
  
  arty no school near where I lived when I turned 5. I lived with my grandparents 13 miles away so I could attend school after first trying correspondence school.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:17am
  - Cassandra
    
    I think you could take an informed stab at that.
    
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    November 11, 2024 9:08am
- kowtow
  
  Suddenly te meedia paahti has sympathy for and goes in to bat for the rural communidy , after years of relentless attacks .
  
  Nope , just another way to beat the coaltion with negative headlines.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:36am
kiwikidsnz

Jenny may sucking the lemon while listening to David Seymour telling her straight

https://youtu.be/5xHuQeAhab0?feature=shared
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November 11, 2024 8:08am
- RoboRob
  
  The full interview, even better 🙂
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siqy_IOY2Ws
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:59am
- RoboRob
  
  I hope Jenny is the one dropped from this show in the cuts. However due to her ‘characteristics’ I suspect she would be the last to go. She simply cant hide her vitriol to the right.
  
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  November 11, 2024 9:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ‘Stunned mullet.’
  
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  November 11, 2024 9:28am
  - imalwaysright
    
    I’m standing by for her to broadcast a “fact check”.
    
    They did one not long ago, I think it was also about a Seymour interview.
    
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    November 11, 2024 9:47am
- Yabster
  
  “It won’t get passed first reading”- where do they get these clowns from?
  
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  November 11, 2024 9:45am
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    Where? – the National party.
    
    PM says there is nothing in the ‘divisive’ Treaty Principles Bill he likes
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360482666/pm-says-there-nothing-divisive-treaty-principles-bill-he-likes
    
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    November 11, 2024 5:06pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    No National MPs or Minsters will ask why because they don’t want to lose their Warrants, or their chances of becoming a Minister (of whatever)
    They are scared of him. Man, what a Leader!!!
    
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    November 11, 2024 5:40pm
- rouppe
  
  To me, that looks like a modified video.
  
  The clips of JMC have been slowed down to make it look like she’s blinking very very slowly. You can hear slight catches in the audio as the video switched to Seymour.
  
  The video embedded on Basset Brash and Hide is completely different
  
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  November 11, 2024 10:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Slowed down? How dare they?? Who would do such a thing?
    
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    November 11, 2024 6:03pm
Bridgenag

Sunday Strip: Possums Never Learn
But the lessons just keep coming.

“The Magnificent Seven- Congrats to Donald J. Trump 47th President of the United States.
When Trump won in 2016 I drew him as a superhero because his was a superhuman effort. In many ways his latest win is a super-duper human achievement considering the dirty tricks used by the Biden Administration and the politicized security agencies who were out to get him. The FBI conducted a massive raid on Trump’s home for no reason. Then the Democrats tried lawfare. They wanted to drain his resources and even put him in jail. Trump endured it. Then they tried to assassinate him. Trump survived, showed his bravery, and now he’s our 47th president….
Now it’s time to get to work America!”

https://www.malone.news/p/sunday-strip-possums-never-learn?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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November 11, 2024 8:10am
Grunter

For those interested in geopolitics and reading and/or listening to what Putin thinks, link below or watch various You Tube video coverage of the recent conference in Russia where Putin spoke on stage for more than 4 hours (Glen Driesens Chanel is useful – he’s Norwegian).

If Trump is to avoid WW3 he needs to at least understand Putins point of view and get his head around BRICS and how it is quickly changing the geopolitical landscape.

Again, call me a Putin fanboy if you like, all I’m saying is listen to Putins point of view and then consider the implications (you don’t have to agree or disagree).

https://search.app/q8cH3cPLJnYKT57Y6
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November 11, 2024 8:13am
- artemisia
  
  Agree about BRICS. Already expanded well beyond the acronym and still working quietly on further additions. And influence.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:53am
  - imalwaysright
    
    BRICSLBGTQIA would be great irony.
    
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    November 11, 2024 9:58am
Cassandra

National supporting its “Treaty partner” ACT and furthering race relations and equality: “I am conscious of the depth of feeling among many Māori toward the Treaty Principles Bill and want to reassure New Zealanders that National will vote against the bill at second reading,” National Party leader and PM Luxon said. No mention of the depth of feeling among the rest of NZ about the racism of Maori extremists, who will never vote National as long as they live! A principles Bill exclusively for the National Party would be a good idea.
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November 11, 2024 8:16am
- nygr
  
  Luxon is pandering to the vocal minority. Maybe his ToW indoctrination is unsurprisly moving him too far to the left. Luxon’s unwillingness to support democratic discussion could be interpreted as support for the ways of tribal dictatorship. He needs to remember who put him into power. It was the many New Zealanders who pay the taxes but feel forgotten. Meanwhile the racist Maori national front (aka TMP) are mobilizing with the radicals and the gangs, and are getting ready to storm the halls of parliament. The revolution of the indigenous has begun.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:33am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    How to infuriate your base supporters. To pander to people who will hate you and your party forever, no matter what you do.
    
    He is reminding me of Rishi Sunak. He may suffer the same fate.
    
    Honestly I’m no political strategist, but if Luxon announced that National would support the Bill, cheers would ring out across the country.
    
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    November 11, 2024 8:57am
    - RoboRob
      
      So true, wish I could give more up ticks.
      
      Luxon seems to honesetly believe he can bring people from the left over, he doesn’t seem to understand that by doing so he pushes National further left. If he wants Act to be the right wing party and National the new NZF (centrists), thats fine but remember the centrist party in NZ doesn’t get a large percentage of votes.
      
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      November 11, 2024 9:07am
    - Paul Marsden
      
      If Luxon does not support Seymour’s Treaty Bill then by default, he supports the Maori hikoi.
      
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      November 11, 2024 9:32am
      - Ghost
        
        No, what he does support and has agreed to is the nz first plan
        
        Coalition Agreement
        
        Equal Citizenship
        The Coalition Government will defend the principle that New Zealanders are equal before the law, with the same rights and obligations, and with the guarantee of the privileges and responsibilities of equal citizenship in New Zealand.
        
        The Coalition Government will work to improve outcomes for all New Zealanders, and will not advance policies that seek to ascribe different rights and responsibilities to New Zealanders on the basis of their race or ancestry.
        
        The Coalition Government will honour the undertakings made by the Crown through past Treaty of Waitangi settlements.
        
        The Coalition Government will reverse measures taken in recent years which have eroded the principle of equal citizenship, specifically we will:
        
        Remove co-oovernance from the delivery of public services.
        
        As a matter of urgency, issue a Cabinet Office circular to all central government organisations that it is the Government’s expectation that public services should be prioritised on the basis of need, not race.
        
        O Restore the right to local referendum on the establishment or ongoing use of Maori wards, including requiring a referendum on any wards established without referendum at the next Local Body elections.
        
        O Stop all work on He Puapua
        
        O Confirm that the Coalition Government does not recognise the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP) as having any binding legal effect on New Zealand.
        
        O Amend section 58 of the Marine and Coastal Area Act to make clear Parliament’s original intent, in light of the judgment of the Court of Appeal in Whakatohea Kotahitanga Waka
        (Edwards) & Ors v Te Kahui and Whakatohea Maori Trust Board & Ors [2023] NZCA 504.
        
        O Amend the Waitangi Tribunal legislation to refocus the scope, purpose, and nature of its inquiries back to the original intent of that legislation.
        
        O Conduct a comprehensive review of all legislation (except when it is related to, or substantive to, existing full and final Treaty settlements) that includes “The Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi” and replace all such references with specific words relating to the relevance and application of the Treaty, or repeal the references.
        
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        November 11, 2024 10:39am
      - Yvette
        
        Ghost,
        How do those points actually differ that much from what David Seymour’s ACT aims – equality for all, and property rights protected.
        In fact ACT would propose a referendum of which an acceptance verdict then lead to most of what New Zealand First and National Agreement is proposing to get on and do.
        Why does Luxon not clarify that?
        
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        November 11, 2024 11:16am
      - Ghost
        
        Why waste millions of dollars on a referendum When you can just do the work without it. I know there is a misunderstanding that a referendum stops a future government from changing it, but it doesn’t.
        
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        November 11, 2024 11:49am
      - rouppe
        
        The coalition agreement doesn’t exist after 2026. It vanishes, it’s as if it never existed.
        
        The Treaty Principles Bill would at least endure across elections and governments even if it is subject to change or repeal.
        
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        November 11, 2024 12:07pm
      - Ghost
        
        labour can get in 2026 and repeal the bill.
        
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        November 11, 2024 12:17pm
      - Burtland
        
        the 2023 NZ Census has 978,246 maori in NZ
        
        how many will turn up for the Hikoi ?
        
        10% 100,000
        5% 50,000
        1% 10,000
        
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        November 11, 2024 1:49pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Agreed. Luxon has many qualities – but having a backbone is not one of them. He – and by association – his party have lost my vote at the next election. We need more ” Milieu of Argentina” & Trump action. We’re not getting it.
      
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      November 11, 2024 10:32am
  - Paulus
    
    By allowing a reading in Parliament of the Bill he is supporting a democratic discussion.
    
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    November 11, 2024 1:48pm
  - leoj
    
    Yep – I hope it comes back to bite Luxon in the bum.
    
    Geez! he’s weak. A woke maori activist.
    
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    November 11, 2024 8:51pm
- Mod88
  
  That right there just crashed National, whatever will he do if/when Tens of Thousands of NZers support the Bill at Select Committee. Tick Tock.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:37am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    3 Waters had 80000+ written and 10,000 wanted to orally present….Labour ignored them….
    
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    November 11, 2024 9:22am
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  I am deeply puzzled by the PMs public attitude. Who has muzzled him and why? He seems to be listening to a dozen radical racists (those with tattoos) and ignoring everyone else.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:38am
  - smttc
    
    He is listening to Sir John Key.
    
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    November 11, 2024 9:36am
    - kowtow
      
      Who is Key listening to .
      
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      November 11, 2024 12:30pm
      - Jack5
        
        Under MMP, the present Coalition is probably as good a Government as NZ can get.
        
        What happens when Winston Peters retires, and while ACT hasn’t built a successful network of electorate candidates and electorate workers?
        
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        November 11, 2024 1:26pm
      - leoj
        
        Yep – key blew it in 2008.
        
        Another namby-pamby wokester who was enamoured with Obama.
        
        What a dolt!
        
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        November 11, 2024 8:54pm
  - Conservatarian
    
    It appears to be a classic case of a corporate chief executive listening to what his staff want and not what his customers want.
    
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    November 11, 2024 9:57am
  - imalwaysright
    
    This reminds me of the previous regime who put their secret agreement with a drug company above the welfare of their employers. Us.
    
    If Luxon has a hidden agenda that is contrary to the interests of his employers, us, then he is guilty of lying by omission.
    That means the cabinet relegates him to the back benches.
    
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    November 11, 2024 10:08am
    - pdm
      
      iam. – it would be the National Caucus that relegates him, not cabinet.
      
      Unlikely to happen before the next election I would think. Lose that though and he will almost certainly be a gonner.
      
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      November 11, 2024 12:51pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        👍🏻
        
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        November 11, 2024 1:27pm
- Paulus
  
  By bringing this Bill and its intentions up, makes the Treaty of Waitangi and the Tribunal into legal in terms of Parliament, to which they are secondary as Parliament is Paramount, despite what so many think and must remain so.
  I can actually see finally where Luxon is coming from so to suport it would overtake and become a part of New Zealand Parliament, which is not and never will be.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:44am
- John Loveridge
  
  Luxon has lost any chance of a future vote from me if he insists on this.
  
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  November 11, 2024 9:13am
- rouppe
  
  “I am conscious of the depth of feeling among many Māori toward the Treaty Principles Bill and want to reassure New Zealanders that National will vote against the bill at second reading,”
  
  He might want to consider that there is a significant depth of feeling among many others toward the Treaty Principles Bill, and that since he declared that he was here to be a leader for all New Zealanders, his decision is likely to cement a feeling that he lied about that.
  
  In fact I might put that in my submission…
  
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  November 11, 2024 10:45am
- Scott
  
  Cassandra and all you others. Luxon has made his position clear and ran on dealing with Treaty issues another way. Luxon is not wrong. Winston Peters is not wrong.
  
  I sometimes despair of the commenters on this blog. Some of you. Many of you. Are determined to learn nothing.
  
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  November 11, 2024 12:12pm
pdm

`No mention of the depth of feeling among the rest of NZ…………………….’

What is Luxon going to do when there are 200,000 plus submissions supporting David Seymours Treaty Principles Bill?

Shred or bin them like Nanaia Mahuta did with 3/5/10/All Waters Submissions?

Or do the right thing and support the bill?

We must all make submissions in support of this important legislation.
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November 11, 2024 8:22am
- Mod88
  
  There was another NZ Prime Minister who ignored overwhelming numbers of submitters and who even deigned to sneer down her nose at them, if memory serves she was gone next election.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:41am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The longer Luxon ignores the Bill supporters, the more embarrassing it will be to U-turn. He will have to or lose the next Election.
  
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  November 11, 2024 10:13am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Perhaps pressure should be brought to bear on the Cabinet.
    They should be the target.
    They can overrule him.
    
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    November 11, 2024 10:33am
    - leoj
      
      …..and if he doesn’t like that he can always resign and help the country.
      
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      November 11, 2024 8:56pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Speaking of Remembrance Day, it’s just one month short of 5 years when pangolins were unfairly blamed for Chinese virologist errors over at the Wuhan Lab.

“December 12, 2019
A cluster of patients in China’s Hubei Province, in the city of Wuhan, begin to experience the symptoms of an atypical pneumonia-like illness that does not respond well to standard treatments.”

https://www.cdc.gov/museum/timeline/covid19.html
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November 11, 2024 8:35am
Maggy Wassilieff

Aaron Smale has been the dogged reporter telling the public of the behind-the-scene cover-ups with cases in the Abuse in Care saga….

and now he’s been told he can’t go to Parliament to hear tomorrow’s apology from PM Luxon.

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/11/11/govt-bars-journalist-from-abuse-apology-at-parliament/
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November 11, 2024 8:41am
- pdm
  
  This decision seems petty if it is a decision taken on the basis of the Newsroom article.
  
  Unlike Jacinda Ardern PM Luxon seems well capable of handling and answering, persistent, difficult questioners on these matters.
  
  There are though other areas he is not so flash with,
  
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  November 11, 2024 9:04am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I must admit that looks like a game-changer for me.
    
    I’ve always had a pretty good opinion of Judith Collins, but this stinks of cover-up of previous inactions by her.
    
    https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/11/11/sorry-means-you-dont-do-it-again/
    
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    November 11, 2024 9:47am
    - Mike
      
      I’d like to be wrong, but I’m expecting a pretty mealy-mouthed affair with very few direct commitments in response to the commission’s recommendations and the question of compensation to be deferred.
      
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      November 11, 2024 4:47pm
penguincouple

When I first learnt that there is a hikoi this week from Far North to Parliament, I thought it meant a march down the North Island – which was quite ambitious I thought.

Then I saw the photos of cars.

The mind ponders how evil colonialist cars fit into the Te whatever world.
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November 11, 2024 8:46am
pdm

Bryce Edwards says this at The Good Oil Blog.

`Many of the wealthiest electorates in the country are now held by the Green Party. ‘

FFS the Greens hold a miserable 2 Electorate seats and one of those (Rongotai) by `the skin of their teeth’.

What is that man on?

BTW as always it is a lengthy post by Bryce at TGO so I have not bothered with a link for the one small piece I picked from it.
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November 11, 2024 8:48am
- Cassandra
  
  And the Greens didn’t get the all important party vote. The Greens only hold electorates by a quirk of MMP.
  
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  November 11, 2024 9:12am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    What quirk? The Greens won 11.6 percent of the Party vote and won three electorates.
    
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    November 11, 2024 10:04am
    - Cassandra
      
      The quirk that you can vote one was in the electorate and the other in the party vote. Most systems make you choose one side or the other. I define that as a quirk.
      
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      November 11, 2024 11:22am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I still don’t know what that means.
        
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        November 11, 2024 11:30am
      - imalwaysright
        
        She means that the ability to vote for say a National candidate yet also vote for a different party is a quirk.
        Its contradictory.
        
        I voted for a National candidate because NZF didn’t have a candidate, and party vote NZF.
        My vote felt diluted
        
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        November 11, 2024 3:37pm
      - Mike
        
        All electoral systems are quirky, except the one I prefer.
        
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        November 11, 2024 4:48pm
- peterwn
  
  Greens actually hold three electorate seats – Auckland Central, Wellington Central and Rongotai. There was no overhang situation, the total number of Green MP’s would have been the same whether or not the Greens won any seats.
  
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  November 11, 2024 9:21am
  - pdm
    
    Thanks pw – I overlooked Wellington Central.
    
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    November 11, 2024 9:35am
    - Biscuit
      
      Nothing wrong with Wellington Central, pdm, that a medium-sized nuke couldn’t fix…
      
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      November 11, 2024 11:06am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        You wouldn’t want a Southerly though, Biscuit
        
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        November 11, 2024 3:00pm
- Steve Todd
  
  […] and one of those (Rongotai) by `the skin of their teeth’.
  
  Julie Anne Genter won Rongotai by 2,717 votes — hardly by the skin of her teeth.
  
  See https://electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2023/electorate-details-43.html.
  
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  November 11, 2024 11:15am
RoboRob

In Auckland over the weekend and hadn’t been for a while. Still really like the place but noticed something I hadn’t before. The ‘down and outers’ on the streets and the people cursing and screaming at each other in the streets and stores were all one ethnicity. It strikes me as very sad how badly they have underperformed the rest of New Zealanders, especially the Asian and Islander community.

There leaders need to look away from the government and take a more hands on approach with their people, as they have in Christchurch. The wider community actively demonstrates appropriate behaviour but a sub group seem to actively wish to remove themselves from that community.
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November 11, 2024 9:17am
TripeWryter

Another Monday …
Audrey Young in The New Zealand Herald gives us the top 10 of Opposition performers in the House.
Ayesha Verrell is No 1.
The trouble with that is no-one seems to know why. Weekly Dr Verrell prates against the Smoking Minister Casey Costello, an ex-police sergeant.
Dr Verrell says a lot. Radio New Zealand is helping her – Audrey Young even says that – but can anyone explain in one sentence of single-syllable words what this is about?
I’ve been listening and even reading about it for most of the year. All I can tell is that ex-Sergeant Costello is in the pocket of Big Tobacco especially Philip Morris.
Yet it appears that ex-Sgt Costello is not. But the mud has still stuck.
And it seems to me that Dr Verrell has still to land a killer hit on her.
Now our media are getting excited over a Hikoi Against the Treaty Principles Bill.
The police! Disruption! Opposition! Division!
Everything but what the Treaty bill is actually about.
David Seymour’s demolition of Jenny-May Coffin the other day should be a lesson to our hacks.
Make yourself informed so that you can inform me.
Don’t repeat the partisan, emotive talking-points.
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November 11, 2024 9:19am
Matt Long

By a curious coincidence, the states that do not require voter ID also are the states Harris won.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1855650251077722130
There’s suggestions that Democrats could be locked out of government for a long time is photo ID became compulsory in all States.

Fans of Judge Bridget Mackintosh may be interested to know that Soros backed crime promoters have been given their DCM in liberal counties, suggesting the worm is turning from crime promotion to prevention in the west.
https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aol.com%2Fsoros-das-suffer-12-big-150043906.html&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl1%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4
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November 11, 2024 9:22am
- cmm
  
  Is it cause and effect? Maybe. Maybe not.
  
  Maybe both are caused by something common: being massively leftie states.
  
  For example, if you eat KFC then there is a much higher chance your car will fail WOF. Is that causal?
  
  Clearly this is that because the fumes from KFC cause mechanical damage to your car.
  
  Or maybe it is the other way around: failing WoF causes people to become depressed and seek out a bucket of feel good KFC.
  
  Nope: both are caused by a common factor: the sector of the population that tend to like KFC also are low income and are likely to have older vehicles that are maintained poorly.
  
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  November 11, 2024 9:44am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    On the topic of warrant of fitness, I am wondering whether passing or failing is a bit of a lottery. Last week my car passed its warrant check. I was amazed because I was aware of a serious fault (which I have now had fixed). The mechanic who did the repairs could not believe that it had passed the WoF check the previous day.
    
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    November 11, 2024 9:59am
    - lifesgood
      
      I’ve got a sneaking suspicion they collude with tyre companies. Every single time I go for a warrant I’m told I need 2 new tyres. I’m a retiree not a hoon, I’m not screeching around corners or doing doughnuts. It’s weird.
      
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      November 11, 2024 10:17am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Every single time I go for a warrant I’m told I need 2 new tyres.”
        
        Isn’t it an objective test? If the tread is less than 1.6 mm it fails. TBH that is a very low bar. Once your tread gets to 3 mm, it is time to look for new tryes.
        
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        November 11, 2024 10:56am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Sometimes the WOF Inspectors just have to find something wrong to get their reject count up. VTNZ can shove it, they are box tickers and have very little mechanical engineering knowledge.
      Now the reject count. Before I retired I was a WOF Inspector even though it was trailers only. So the office dweller comes and sees me every couple of years. Tells me in the last two years I only had 3 fails.
      Thing is the Company and myself were trailer builders. If I have to fail a brand new trailer then someone is coming upstairs with me to have a chat about them not doing their job properly. 97% of my inspections were on trailers manufactured in the workshop – new.
      Sometimes say an airport shuttle would come in and one stop light does not work. I replace the bulb and pass the inspection. Nope! I have to fail it (online) then fix it, then pass it. (online again.)
      Telling the office dweller it was a waste of time fell on deaf ears. They want to see the overall fails right through NZ. A private sector business does not have the time to fuck around like that. But nope, I must fail it and do the light inspection, then go BACK online and pass it. These Govt public sector wanks have no idea!
      
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      November 11, 2024 10:40am
      - leoj
        
        VTNZ is another government dept and thus inefficient and incompetent.
        
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        November 11, 2024 9:01pm
      - Ghost
        
        VTNZ is a private owned German company
        
        1 0
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        November 11, 2024 9:11pm
    - pdm
      
      Had a car fail a few years ago at Hasting Vehicle Testing station due to an allegedly faulty hand brake. Car was under warranty so went back to the franchise holder whose mechanics checked it and said there was no problem
      
      No adjustment made.
      
      Went back to VTS and car passed!!!
      
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      November 11, 2024 1:02pm
  - Handyman
    
    Leaving aside cause and effect, there is another useful analysis technique.
    That is attribute clusters which provide high predictability. the “why” does not matter.
    
    For example, people with green hair, being fat, having cats is a cluster which can predict gender, occupation type and sector (public /private) and TDS.
    What is cause and effect? No one knows. Do people get fat sitting in a sedentary job or the other way round? Do people get bored with a beige uniform and add colour to the office with hair colour? Do people get green hair to stand out or to blend in to a group?
    
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    November 11, 2024 10:12am
I remember when

How long has Warren Gatland got left as the coach of Wales?
At a stage when Fiji was down to thirteen men Wales kicked the ball away twice.
Wales are starting to develop a mental block when playing against Fiji.
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November 11, 2024 9:25am
- kowtow
  
  Wales , or at least its Labour governing regime , is determined to “decolonise” itself .
  
  Maybe they should just stop playing the colonisers games altogether.
  
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  November 11, 2024 10:58am
  - Don Beckett
    
    So who were the colonisers ? The English, the Celts, the early Britons …………..
    
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    November 11, 2024 1:11pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I dunno about Fiji, but not many coaches losing 10 on the trot survive too long.
  
  Warren led Wales to some great results first time around, but perhaps he’s yesterday’s man.
  
  http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/articles/cn8g2m4e0jvo
  
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  November 11, 2024 3:04pm
Fender

Thinking about judges this morning,
Why aren’t they psychometric tested before being given power or even regularly accessed by a panel. It’s good enough for pilots and It would seem to be fairly important that they could pass a test to prove they were clear thinking, unbiased, and not politically motivated etc .
Sit them down with Jordan Petersen and his mates for a few chats.
Plenty of other jobs that’s just a given requirement.
It appears promotion due to experience doesn’t actually work very well.
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November 11, 2024 9:41am
- imalwaysright
  
  Its harder to get SPCA approval to adopt a puppy than it is to get on the bench.
  
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  November 11, 2024 10:38am
Bridgenag

AA seems to be the best……
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November 11, 2024 10:22am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It was AA that passed the vehicle. The front brake rotors were warped. Braking at anything over 60 kmh caused the steering wheel to shake. They still passed it.
  
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  November 11, 2024 10:25am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Bit hard when the brakes are tested on rollers.
    Warped rotors? The brakes still work.
    
    6 3
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    November 11, 2024 10:42am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I see one downticker doubts my mechanical experience.
      That is fine if the downticker has over 50 years experience – I doubt it very much.
      
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      November 11, 2024 6:42pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Take it further for the sake of others.
    Sounds like they only drove it onto the lift or over the pit.
    Get another independent test done first.
    
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    November 11, 2024 10:44am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      What do you mean by an “independent test”? I’m done with it.
      
      4 1
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      November 11, 2024 10:59am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Another warrant.
        
        Also bear in mind that you accepted the warrant of fitness knowing your car had a major fault.
        In the interest of your safety and that of others you should have disclosed the major fault to the AA when you gave them the keys.
        The AA were negligent, as were you.
        Personal responsibility, especially in the days or months before the test knowing your car was faulty, is exactly what it says it is.
        
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        November 11, 2024 11:14am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I was not negligent. I had the brakes fixed the following day.
        
        4 1
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        November 11, 2024 12:38pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        “Last week my car passed its warrant check. I was amazed because I was aware of a serious fault”
        
        You should have told the mechanic. If a rotor blew on a brake test on the street it could have hurt someone .
        
        Can you not understand that?
        
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        November 12, 2024 7:17am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Once it is failed online, the fail reason has to pass.
      Any other WOF Inspector at another location will see the fail reason online.
      In other words your mate will not be able to overturn the fail unless it passes. That would also incur another fee.
      
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      November 11, 2024 6:47pm
  - kevn
    
    BY… Some older cars had steering dampers. When they get worn the same steering shake can appear under braking.
    
    4 0
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    November 11, 2024 1:07pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      No matter the year brake rotors do distort from heat (heavy braking depending on the driver) My Prado needed rotors replacing last year. The brake pedal pulsates. WOF checks do not show any shaking.
      Never had to do it on way earlier cars. It must be the metal composition today.
      Steering damper worked back in the day.
      
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      November 11, 2024 7:03pm
Ra Henare

and many still believe Main Stream media.

As usual, I was interested in the recent Violence in Amsterdam labelled anti Semitic by MSM.

Being the curious chap I am I wondered what the trigger was for an event that ended up with 62 arrests (No small scuffle).

Yes there is a story.

It seems the trigger was Israeli Football supporters (IN UK they used to be called hooligans/skin heads).

Said group visiting Amsterdam. An estimated 140,000 Muslims reside in the capital where they form around 17 percent of the population.

Said Israeli group pre match were arrogantly “”marching”” around singing vile anti-Arab songs and pulling down Palestine flags from buildings.

Post match, the Arab contingent responded.

Sky News posted a news item regarding the violence. Including social media video clips. Then, in a strange twist. The story was changed.
Apparently after being accused of being anti Israeli, the clip was recast as an anti-Semitic event. (Do I detect the Israeli propaganda machine at work here??)

Being the internet. The original Skynews report has been accessed and compared to the second(Re Edited Version) by a Guardian Columnist.

For those interested, I found this Video covering the situation (There are others).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRtr7FZ97sM

or this from Netherlands English News outlet.
https://nltimes.nl/2024/11/10/footage-shows-maccabi-supporters-attack-amsterdammers

So, as usual, I wait a few days before I believe anything on MSM.

Was it anti-Semitic. No I suspect it was anti hooligan.

Thank goodness for the Internet and ability to look behind the MSM narrative

PS.
The enlarged Jewish population, including those with Jewish fathers or other connections to the Jewish community, is estimated to be around 53,000 (as of 2024).
Approximately half of the Jewish population resides in Amsterdam, with the remaining communities scattered throughout the country.
.
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November 11, 2024 10:48am
- imalwaysright
  
  Good post Ra.
  I saw the same footage. The Maccabi supporters also disrespected the minute of silence for the flood victims in Spain.
  This trend of narrative based reportage will end up with the Israelis getting a reputation for exaggeration or lying.
  The accusations of a pogrom was extremely disrespectful to the victims of actual pogroms, including Jews, and should be retracted and appologised for.
  
  6 8
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  November 11, 2024 11:31am
  - Cassandra
    
    “King of the Netherlands and sundry politicians misled by clever Jews attacking peace-loving Moslems. Mainstream media owned by Jews”. Have I got that right? Or did in fact a gang of Islamic terrorists go Jew hunting?
    
    6 2
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    November 11, 2024 1:51pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Who knows. If the media were honest we wouldn’t be speculating.
      
      4 3
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      November 11, 2024 2:38pm
- Cassandra
  
  Ra Henare: not so fast. Sure Israeli hooligans behaved badly but the real problem was the marked escalation by Arabs. Indeed, there’s some evidence that it wasn’t retaliation at all but premeditated antisemitic violence for which the soccer hooliganism was a heaven sent excuse.
  
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  November 11, 2024 11:53am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Ok Cass.
    Show your “some evidence””
    
    3 6
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    November 11, 2024 2:37pm
    - Cassandra
      
      Wall Street journal: “Since Oct. 7, 2023, these Moroccan youths have participated in weekly anti-Zionist demonstrators through the streets of Amsterdam. Early Friday morning, their activism turned into violence when they attacked Maccabi Tel Aviv’s fans. They raced through the old city center on scooters and, according to news reports, learned which hotels Israeli fans were staying in by Telegram messages from taxi drivers. Most of the taxi drivers were also of Moroccan descent. A hunt for Jews began.” There are 20 or more similar reports on n the Web.
      
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      November 12, 2024 8:08am
- Vidar
  
  Oh, brilliant strategy.
  
  Some Jewish fans allegedly said mean things and maybe tore a flag or two (because Palestinian supporters are renowned for their impeccable behavior, obviously), so the only logical response is a coordinated ambush and brutal beatdown by a massive group of angry Muslim fans.
  
  Truly a measured and proportionate reaction. Just lovely.
  
  No Jew hating there.
  
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  November 11, 2024 12:43pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Not allegedly Vidar,
    lots of Video of said “”Jewish fans”” singing vile anti Arab songs.
    
    But hey, believe what you want. Keep watching MSM.
    
    3 7
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    November 11, 2024 2:40pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    Where is your “coordinated ambush’? Where is your “brutal beat down”?
    What we do know is that there was a group of foreign football fans who went to a city and fought with local football fans. An event that has happened many many times in history. yet the only problem you can see is that people fought with Jews.
    
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    November 12, 2024 1:08am
Skippytony

Just out of curiosity… If Wikipedia is correct, as far as I can tell the National party has ~30,000 paid up members.

If the groundswell of support for ACT’s treaty principle is anything like as big as it appears, we should all join the National Party and force some changes there.

Just not voting for them is not enough.
10 1
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November 11, 2024 11:23am
- Cassandra
  
  You can join multi parties. Quite useful to keep abreast of what the enemy is doing.
  
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  November 11, 2024 11:54am
kevn

Oprah sold out for 1 million… good $ score.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/fec-filings-show-kamala-harris-team-blew-funds-hollywood-stars-private-jets
7 1
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November 11, 2024 11:40am
- Ghost
  
  Oprah is a Democrat, she gave to the party she supports. Is Elon a sell out for his donations to trump? Are you not repeating what the Democrat supporter meltdowns are doing? Crying about who donated to trump, threatening to boycott those who supported trump.
  
  3 11
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  November 11, 2024 11:45am
  - kevn
    
    Ghost… I don’t recall any chat that Musk was getting paid for his support. I’ll wager most folk thought Oprah was just purely supporting harris, as Musk was for Trump. But she was paid to appear. Big difference.
    
    11 1
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    November 11, 2024 1:11pm
    - Ghost
      
      Plenty of people get paid to appear for both sides. 50 cent was offered $3 million by trumps team, but turned it down as he doesn’t do politics. No difference.
      
      2 7
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      November 11, 2024 1:26pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    OMG. Ghost, are you leaving NZ? Tell me where, as long it is not the South Island.
    
    2 2
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    November 11, 2024 7:08pm
bennerg

My admiration for Robert F. Kennedy Jr grows. So much of what he is bringing out is simply horrific – that these companies were given so much opportunity to make massive profits out of the misery of the people.

“The thing that people have to understand is that the four companies that make all 72 of those vaccines, which is Pfizer, Glaxo, Merck and Sanofi. All of those companies are convicted felons. And not only that, they’re serial felons. Their business model is committing felonies.”

“These companies in the last 10 years collectively, have paid $35 billion in penalties, damages, fines for falsifying science, for defrauding regulators, lying to doctors, and for killing hundreds of thousands of people. Vioxx, which was Merck’s flagship product, killed between 120,000 and 500,000 Americans. This was a pill. And Merck was selling as a headache pill.”

“And Merck knew, caused heart attacks and killed people. And they didn’t tell anybody. And they knew a certain, you know, we got the spreadsheets that showed there being counters, their accountants. And this is, you’re gonna kill so many people per dose. We can still make more money, even if they all sue us. And in the end, they killed, you know, up to half a million Americans. And they got away with it.”

“They paid $7 billion in fines. Nobody went to jail. And this is, you know. They probably made $100 million in profits. Yeah. So this is a company, these, it requires kind of a cognitive dissonance to believe that these companies that are lying and cheating on every other pharmaceutical product, every other medical device that they create, are somehow found Jesus vaccines and aren’t lying to us.”

“And the thing is with vaccines, vaccines are the only place they could never get caught because it’s illegal in this country to sue a vaccine company. So Congress passed a law in 1986 that said no matter how negligent that company is, no matter how malicious they are, no matter how toxic the product, you no matter how grievous or injury you cannot sue them.”
14 1
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November 11, 2024 12:02pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  The Manawatu is grateful that Glaxo was sold off years ago.
  
  https://manawatuheritage.pncc.govt.nz/item/f60f91e1-3f16-4a82-a6aa-bda029e8b787
  
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  November 11, 2024 3:11pm
- Jake Dee
  
  I agree with you, BUT I don’t think these companies are convicted felons. I believe that the actually made negotiated settlements to avoid criminal convictions. This is a major part of the problem, the fines for criminal activity just get calculated into the cost of doing business and the criminal activity continues.
  
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  November 12, 2024 1:12am
Ghost

Time to kill trump voters?

Sigh

Twitter
Twitter

Good news is they are shaving their heads, getting Kamala tattoos so people can avoid them
7 0
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November 11, 2024 12:08pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I clicked, dunno why.
  My head hurts now and it is 7.12pm.
  
  2 1
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  November 11, 2024 7:12pm
Swifty

At times I wonder whether the theft or destruction of public infrastructure should be treated more harshly.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360482252/thieves-playing-russian-roulette-their-lives-powernet

This is just looting.

The looting of public materials essential for public health, not to mention warmth, industry, education, safety systems etc etc – and all for a few measly bucks.

Bring back public stocks I say.
10 1
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November 11, 2024 12:34pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Set the stocks up in the main square and have ample supplies of animal excrement for pelting purposes on hand.
  
  4 2
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  November 11, 2024 3:13pm
- greybeard
  
  Bring back public stocks by all means, but before that get rid of the idiotic “name suppression” rules.
  That is, in my opinion, one of the main contributing factors to the crime rate.
  
  2 2
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  November 11, 2024 6:35pm
Conservatarian

Check out the X account of “Libs of TikTok”. For the last few days, post-election, she has been busy publicising the unhinged anti-Trump rants by those in the public education system. Typically it is a older female teacher. In some cases the ranter is the well compensated elected head of a school district.

Each post ends with a phrase to the effect of “These are the people who teach your children.”
11 2
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November 11, 2024 12:39pm
Chuck Bird

FYI

Prof. Lewis: Climate Change Is the Greatest and Most Successful Pseudoscientific Fraud I Have Seen

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/prof-lewis-climate-change-is-the-greatest-and-most-successful-pseudoscientific-fraud-i-have-seen/
8 3
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November 11, 2024 12:51pm
- hookerphil
  
  Not saying I disagree at all but be wrote that in 2010 and died in 2011.
  
  5 0
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  November 11, 2024 1:23pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    There are others alive like Dr Curry and Dr Koonin who the left are scared to debate.
    
    2 5
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    November 11, 2024 2:40pm
Chuck Bird

They should ask themselves why they are 348 times more likely to acquire HIV than others.

Burnett Foundation told to remove gay sex education ads

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/aids-foundation-told-to-remove-gay-sex-education-ad-near-auckland-dairy/LWS6TRWS7VG4XDVRQTDBQRH6QA/
9 3
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November 11, 2024 1:22pm
- Conservatarian
  
  From the article: The ad showed two posters that were displayed side-by-side on billboards and online earlier this year. The first one showed a cartoon image of a man’s naked bottom with the text “First timers, enter here”.
  
  The second poster said, “Ins and Outs – Sex education for gay and bi guys – insandouts.org.nz”. The “I” in the word “Ins” was drawn in the shape of a penis and the “O” in the word “Outs” was drawn to look like an anus.
  
  The Burnett Foundation [formerly the New Zealand AIDS Foundation] said in response that the campaign was not aimed at children and it had carefully selected placements outside of school exclusion zones and ran during the school holiday period.
  
  However, there was a single instance where the ad was mistakenly placed inside one of these exclusion zones. It had been removed by the media company that owned the space.
  
  “Oops, we accidentally encouraged the schoolkids to bum. Sorry guys.”
  
  4 2
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  November 11, 2024 1:58pm
  - Mike
    
    It has been pointed out by DPF, many times, that there is no point to so-called ‘exclusion zones’ around schools. Either something, in this case advertising, should be restricted everywhere based on likely harm or freedom of expression should prevail. Some people might want to legislate for taste, but advertisers and their agents can make up their own minds where they want to advertise and respond to feedback with commercial decisions.
    
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    November 11, 2024 5:01pm
NothingLeft

Very good summary article on insane level of propagandizing bias in US media, institutions and election, as well as many of the instances of fraud and pattern of deliberate voter suppression identified.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/was-2024-election-too-big-rig
2 2
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November 11, 2024 2:56pm
Swifty

“Trump won because of racism and misogyny – the US just wasn’t ready for a woman to lead them…”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iOuzuLZpwok

Like Ardern when she fell from favour, how completely and utterly predictable.

Yep, nothing to do with her performance.

//
13 2
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November 11, 2024 2:57pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  I think the fact she couldn’t answer a single question with a straight answer might have had something to do with it!
  Also the fact that she’s got a proven track record of supporting far left insanity.
  
  7 1
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  November 11, 2024 4:55pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Uptick x ten.
  
  2 2
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  November 11, 2024 7:16pm
info@cruzpro.com

Received a photo from a friend in Texas, USA showing that the price of regular gasoline/petrol is US$2.38 per gallon.

At an exchange rate of 1.68 NZ$ per US$ that works out to be NZ$4.00 per gallon or NZ$1.06 per liter.
10 2
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November 11, 2024 3:35pm
- Mike
  
  What about the price of whitebait, muttonbirds, L&P or peanut slabs?
  
  1 7
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  November 11, 2024 4:53pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Trouble is Mike, your car won’t run on any of those.
    
    7 2
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    November 11, 2024 5:58pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      He tries hard.
      Carburetors not fans of even L&P.
      
      3 2
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      November 11, 2024 7:19pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Your question seems a bit random Mike.
    
    I presented a fact about the difference in petrol/gasoline costs between New Zealand and the USA.
    
    You asked about the cost of whitebait, muttonbirds, L&P or peanut slabs.
    
    Seems a bit off topic.
    
    You could get answers to your questions by searching the internet.
    
    4 1
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    November 11, 2024 7:52pm
    - Mike
      
      Perhaps I should have just asked you what your random fact had to do with the price of fish.
      
      0 4
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      November 11, 2024 8:20pm
Ra Henare

I do wonder if Sir Bob Jones is following the path of Joe Biden.

His latest drivel re the Election indicates his previous reasoned and logical thinking is being replaced by a wandering emotional output.

https://nopunchespulled.com/2024/11/11/the-presidential-election/

For many years I have been a staunch supporter of his wit & wisdom. But sadly, now his political output is being almost unreadable.

Double sadly will be those who blindly support his every word in this post.
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November 11, 2024 3:59pm
- Mike
  
  He never made much sense, so perhaps you have grown wiser.
  
  4 7
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  November 11, 2024 4:54pm
  - Swifty
    
    He picked the Coalition’s 2023 win, way back in 2021, when Ardern was still riding high.
    
    And then there’s the matter of his billion dollar wealth. Not bad for a wee Naenae boy.
    
    Got to give him that.
    
    9 2
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    November 11, 2024 6:24pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Senility is tough.
  Forty years ago The New Zealand Party’s defence policy was brilliant, as subsequent events have proven.
  BUT, Sir Bob nowadays exhibits the coherence of Joe Biden and that is sad.
  The New Zealand Party was inspirational. And it was fun. I was involved with a fund-raiser for The Party at the Kiwitahi Hall. It was a wet tee shirt contest and we had a bit of a job fobbing off the news media. Fast forward 40 years and I wonder how such a fund raising event would go.
  
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  November 11, 2024 8:44pm
  - Cassandra
    
    The NZ Party defence policy was to emulate Costa Rica ie to disarm. You are writing nonsense.
    
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    November 12, 2024 7:58am
sirknz

There is no way that this bill will be weaponised by people…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360482614/stalking-become-illegal-new-zealand
4 2
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November 11, 2024 4:01pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Another lawyers picnic by the look of it.
  
  2 2
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  November 11, 2024 4:58pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Gerry has a change of mind..

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/533466/government-reverses-decision-to-bar-journalist-from-abuse-apology-at-parliament

Surprise, surprise.

Did The Nats really think this would fly under the radar?
9 0
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November 11, 2024 5:27pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Bit stinky imo. They are starting to act like bloody Democrats!
  
  4 3
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  November 11, 2024 5:43pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Having mentioned Letitia James in the comments today, here she goes again.
“James was elected to enforce the law and uphold the Constitution.
But James thinks her job is to fight Donald Trump.”

https://patriotpulse.net/letitia-james-hit-donald-trump-with-this-seriously-bad-news/?
It is going to be fun.
Remember Trump being shot? Standing up with blood over his head? “Fight, fight fight” he said. He fucking means it!
4 4
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November 11, 2024 5:53pm
DimChappie

Luxon says he is proud of the Treaty of Waitangi, likes nothing in the Treaty Principles Bill and understands Maori reaction to it (quotes taken from today’s post-Cabinet press conference below)

Q: Can you tell us if there is anything you like or what you dislike most about the Treaty Principles Bill?

A: No there isn’t anything that I like. I didn’t support it in Opposition, our party did not support it in Opposition. As I’ve said many times, we have come to a compromise. Neither National nor ACT got what they wanted. We are supporting it to first reading but there will be no support from National beyond that and we won’t be changing our mind.

Q: What do you make of the depth of feeling among some of the protestors?

A: Oh I understand it. There is immense frustration in Maoridom about this Treaty Principles Bill. I understand why and I get that. But equally as I’ve said we are supporting it to first reading and it won’t be supported beyond that.
….
I understand the depth of feeling in Maoridom. Some of them are fearful we will change our mind (about support) We will not be changing our mind.

Q: Your name will be on voting for the bill, how does that make you feel?

A: We live in a mature MMP envronment…we did not campaign on this bill, we do not like this bill…ACT wanted a full referendum, this is a compromise. I get it that there will be people who are frustrated on all sides of the debate. This is a modern MMP environment coming to life in New Zealand.

Q: Are you worried that the division caused here could harm the National Party?

A: That is not my consideration. My view from the beginning has been We don’t support it because we think it is divisive. We are proud of the Treaty of Waitangi. Yes we have had to grapple with it as a country over many decades and will continue to grapple with it as we go forward but the reality is for us in the National Party, this is the position we have got to.
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November 11, 2024 5:57pm
Swifty

I guess it’s too much to ask, a forlorn hope, that the news media sites who are breathlessly reporting all things hikoi, that when quoting hikoi organiser Eru Kapa-Kingi they mention that he’s a senior office holder in the Maori Party and the son of Maori Party MP, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, and has been a Maori Party list candidate himself.

You know, in the interests of transparency etc.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/hikoi-to-uphold-te-tiriti-attracts-1000-in-northland-on-first-day/FREV6YGBEZHZFFP4HAAOU35IFY/

https://www.stuff.co.nz/te-ao-maori/360481678/hikoi-leader-excited-and-equally-nervous-ahead-march-treaty-waitangi

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariameno_Kapa-Kingi

And, in the interests of transparency, it’d be good to know what Maori Party cash has gone to the hikoi, if any, but I guess we’ll be waiting years to find that out as the Maori Party refuse to publish their accounts as required by law.

It’d be a great little assignment for a journo too to establish whether Waipareira Trust charity money has been diverted to hikoi purposes.

Yes, that would be very interesting to know.
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November 11, 2024 6:21pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360482682/cheat-sheet-what-4b-movement-attracting-us-women

“Originating in South Korea, the 4B movement encourages straight women to boycott men by refusing to marry, have children, date or have sex with men.”

In other words, become a lesbian.
Or a dry old maid with lots of cats and a collection of sex toys.
8 1
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November 11, 2024 6:31pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  In Korea the birth rate is less than 1 per female.
  
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  November 11, 2024 6:54pm
- Jake Dee
  
  I said it before and I will say it again. I have yet to see a so called “sex Strike” that was not a bogus publicity stunt.
  
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  November 12, 2024 1:17am
Swifty

“Toitū Te Tiriti is tupuna inspired, tiriti led, mana motuhake driven and
mokopuna focused. Our intent is to demonstrate the beginning of a unified Aotearoa response to the Government’s assault on tangata whenua and Te Tiriti o Waitangi.”

https://toitutetiriti.co.nz/pages/kaupapa

I wouldn’t know about that.

What I would say is that they are very clearly an astroturf outfit acting under the complete control, and entirely for interests in, the Maori Party.

I am hoping Kiwiblog’s resident astroturf expert will be along shortly to confirm my claim.
8 1
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November 11, 2024 6:32pm

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