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November 8, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 08 November 2024

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General Debate

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artemisia

Tears and ‘devastation’ at TVNZ as coats and cloth come slightly more into line but only slightly and not anywhere close yet.

“It’s a really terrible day in a year of terrible days for them,” said E tū union negotiation specialist Michael Wood.

Terrible? Really? Don’t these news gatherers – and their bosses – take a bit of notice of news right under their noses? It’s their day job after all. Revenue has been falling sharply since January 2022, though that follows a big rise in 2021 ($311mill to $340mill). Revenue was steady 2016 to 2020 though the article fudges (deliberately) this big rise by referring to ‘consistently’, which it wasn’t. It was a one off in 2021.

Where the state broadcaster consistently commanded annual advertising revenue of between $310m-$341m a year until as recently as 2023, that fell sharply last year to just $289m.

Revenue numbers from the chart in the Herald today, paywalled.
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November 8, 2024 8:03am
- Flossie
  
  Shall we explain it to them again? Provide news without an obvious bias, and get rid of the Manglish. That way you just might encourage a few ex viewers to watch again. Advertisers won’t buy time the way things currently are.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:28am
  - wisteria
    
    Shouldn’t it be called Pidgin Maori ?
    
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    November 8, 2024 8:44am
    - JackRabbit
      
      No. It is an insult to all other pidgin languages.
      
      Pidgin Maori is mostly made up words, that mean whatever the Pidgin Maori speaker intended then to mean.
      
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      November 8, 2024 10:31am
  - Aquarius
    
    Totally agree; used to listen to RNZ and watch TVNZ. Could (almost) cope with the constant left whinge, but then came the pidgin including in the ads for products clearly not aimed at me; eg McDonalds, KFC etc
    so now I suffer through the ads on ZB !
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:31am
- Ian
  
  They are cutting their own throats. They put up programmes on TVNZ+ at the same time as they show them on their free to air channel. The free to air channel has long commercial breaks, TVNZ+ doesn’t. so why would you not watch on TVNZ+. But for a revenue stream of paid advertisers, why would an advertiser think they are going to get value for money of viewers if TVNZ free to air is driving them away? No wonder revenue is falling…
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:10am
  - Local Miller
    
    Are you sure TVNZ+ doesn’t have adverts? I’ve watched this on the odd occasion on my iPad and I recall seeing adverts.
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:35am
    - sirknz
      
      They do have adverts but they are optimised for the internet and not as many or as long. I think in traditional TV, it is 13 minutes of ads per hour, the rest is TV shows and station self promos.
      
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      November 8, 2024 10:03am
- Grunter
  
  TVNZ is a ‘zombie’ organisation (walking dead).
  
  It is beyond repair and beyond being sold for any $ amount.
  
  Come on National – face reality, close it down, stop the bleeding. Taxpayers can not afford this liability.
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:10am
  - pdm
    
    Grunter I think you need to say:
    `Come on Coalition Government!!!’
    
    If ACT and NZFirst do not drive this nothing will happen because of PM Luxon’s `be nice to everyone’ plan.
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:34am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Luxon is the only human on earth with no backbone.
      
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      November 8, 2024 12:03pm
      - gravedodger
        
        Not sure about that Cullen, Brownlie seems to have the same Malady.
        
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        November 8, 2024 7:15pm
  - Mike
    
    Care to estimate what the government is currently spending to operate TVNZ?
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:35am
    - Grunter
      
      Their declared loss was $85m Mike. That’s not my estimate. Zero dividends paid with all that working capital tied up.
      
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      November 8, 2024 9:59am
      - john1234
        
        That loss is real and upon the shareholder i.e. the government I.e. us.
        
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        November 8, 2024 11:45am
      - Grunter
        
        And that doesn’t include all the other freebies, NZ on Air, etc. Plus pathetic Govt advertising for silly campaigns that achieve nothing.
        
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        November 8, 2024 2:47pm
    - Swifty
      
      Lol. That fell flat Mike and for good reasons.
      
      Please work on new attack lines. That one is dead and buried.
      
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      November 9, 2024 6:47pm
- Handyman
  
  TVNZ is beginning to sound like a government department.
  That is, the main purpose is to employ people and the government’s role is to provide funding.
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:54am
  - JackRabbit
    
    TVNZ is beginning to sound like a government department.
    
    TVNZ IS a government department, but controlled by woke racist fascists that do not answer either to this Parliament or the NZ taxpayer.
    
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    November 8, 2024 10:34am
    - Jack5
      
      TVNZ isn’t a Government department. It’s a State-owned enterprise, a State-owned limited company that comes under the Companies Act.
      
      Other State-owned enterprises, all limited companies: Airways Corporation, Animal Control Products, AsureQuality (previously AgQuality, in food quality testing etc), Electricity Corporation of NZ (winding up issues after electricity industry deregulation), KiwiRail Holdings, Kordia Group (technology and links for radio and TV), Landcorp Farming, Meteorological Service of NZ, New Zealand Post, New Zealand Railways Corporation
      Quotable Value (property valuation system), Transpower New Zealand (owns national power grid).
      
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      November 8, 2024 12:07pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        While I appreciate your clarification, a state owned Enterprise IS for all intense purposes a govt dept.
        
        They are not competitive, have govt backing, and not answerable to private shareholders. And if they lose money the taxpayer foots the bill.
        
        If they were a private business, and made a loss, heads would roll, departments cut, and in some cases sold off.
        
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        November 8, 2024 3:25pm
      - Jack5
        
        Fair enough, JackRabbit, State-owned enterprises are still Government owned.
        
        But they may be more risky for the Government. Transpower, for example, issued $150 million or so “green bonds”.
        
        I vaguely recall from 20 or 25 years back two accounting academics being concerned about the possibility of Transpower selling ownership of the grid in some sort of leaseback deal.
        
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        November 8, 2024 5:32pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Handyman – Any TV station which employs resident commie John Campbell will make loss. Simple rule of universe.
    
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    November 8, 2024 12:04pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Gosh, 50 layoffs at TVNZ, hold the press for page 1 screams. 600 job losses at a freezing works, hold page 4!
  
  Notice also that the ever unsuccessful “River of Filth” Wood is upping his lamentable strike rate of successful labour negotiations.
  
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  November 8, 2024 10:18am
  - sirknz
    
    I’m sure that $1uff will hire all the good ones…
    
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    November 8, 2024 10:37am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Oh dear so sad too bad
    
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    November 8, 2024 12:59pm
  - Handyman
    
    “Strike rate” means something different for union bosses.
    
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    November 8, 2024 1:11pm
- imalwaysright
  
  “Revenue has been falling sharply since January 2022, though that follows a big rise in 2021 …”
  
  That would be when they signed the sponsorship deal with the Adern régime to actively and intentionally lie to the NZ public.
  Sadly for them, Adern has fucked off and is now herself collecting her filthy lucre as reward for her treasonous and vicious destruction of New Zealand.
  
  Yet tvnz still love her!
  
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  November 8, 2024 10:36am
- wairarapapaul
  
  Surely they are right sizing TVNZ to attract a buyer for an eventual sale.
  
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  November 8, 2024 11:55am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

After the Election, 12 things that happen next.

https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-is-now-president-elect-here-are-the-9-things-that-happen-next?
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November 8, 2024 8:04am
- redeye
  
  Here’s what’s really happening.
  https://x.com/i/bookmarks?post_id=1854087029753053640
  
  Project 2025 isn’t coming but agenda Agenda47 is, which is the official plan “To Dismantle the Deep State and Return Power to the American People.”
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:30am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Why do you think they want to kill him?
    
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    November 8, 2024 10:24am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Already the Dems and their Woke Racist Elite supporters are preparing to do battle again.
  However I have hope that hard working tax payers who value freedom and the largest group in most Western countries will look at the US and rally behind a Party that will drive out Wokeism Racisim anti-thought and anti-speech and put the Elites back in their box.
  The US has shown it can be done.
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:00am
  - Mike
    
    Please define ‘elites’ in a way that excludes Trump,
    Vance and their billionaire supporters.
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:37am
    - Conservatarian
      
      For a start, I would include the multi-millionaire celebrity clucking hens on “The View”, the ABC News morning TV show which allows childless wine aunts to switch over from MSNBC for a bit, start drinking at 9am and download lib propaganda into their brains.
      
      Currently melting down. Openly asserting that America’s Latinos have voted to put themselves on Trump’s deportation trains and simultaneously pondering who will pick all the grapes to make the afore-mentioned wine.
      
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      November 8, 2024 10:05am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        You’re wasting your time responding to mikenmild’s single sentence troll but here’s what I quoted on Kiwiblog eight years ago, since when it’s got worse:
        
        In this world, there are Bill and Hillary, the Podesta brothers, Huma Abedin and Anthony Weiner, Christiane Amanpour and Jamie Rubin, Samantha Power and Cass Sunstein, Andrea Mitchell and Alan Greenspan, and on and on. Jorge Ramos goes after Trump; his daughter works for Hillary; and his boss at Univision badgers the Clinton campaign to stay lax on open borders — the lifeblood that nourishes his non-English-speaking money machine.
        
        George Stephanopoulos, who helped run the Clinton campaign and White House, and who as a debate moderator obsessed over Mitt Romney’s answers to abortion hypotheticals, is the disinterested ABC News chief anchor.
        
        CNN vice president Virginia Moseley is married to Hillary Clinton’s former deputy secretary at the State Department Tom Nides (now of Morgan Stanley) — suggesting “The Clinton News Network” is not really a right-wing joke.
        
        Former ABC News executive producer Ian Cameron is married to Susan Rice, a — pre-Benghazi — regular on the Sunday talk shows.
        
        CBS president David Rhodes is the sibling of aspiring novelist Ben Rhodes, Obama’s deputy national security adviser for “strategic communications and Speechwriting,” whatever that fictive title means.
        
        ABC News correspondent Claire Shipman married former White House press secretary Jay Carney (now senior vice president for “worldwide corporate affairs” at Amazon: not just “corporate affairs” or “worldwide affairs” but “worldwide corporate affairs”). And on and on.
        
        These nice people report on each other. They praise each other, award each other, make money together, and bristle with each other when they are collectively and pejoratively dubbed the “elites.
        
        And the 45th President had no impact on this beyond shifting its attitude from “bristle” to “rage” at those who might take it down.
        
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        November 8, 2024 1:11pm
    - Stellaboxer
      
      The establishment mike. Good enough for you? Probably not but there you go.
      
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      November 8, 2024 10:41am
    - Gussy Fink-Nottle
      
      Elites – those who openly despise the proletariat.
      
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      November 8, 2024 11:23am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton – where do I stop?
      Obamas, Oh, don’t ever forget Soros.
      Enough Mike?
      
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      November 8, 2024 5:16pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      Its actually not a bad question.
      In this context “The Elite’ is the western Professional Managerial Class, The PMC, sometimes written as Professional Managerial Caste. Being very rich is not enough, you have to have the PMC ethos. Billionaire Michael Bloomberg is PMC but billionaire Elon Musk is not, the difference is their ethos not wealth.
      Xi Jinping is clearly a professional manager, he has spent his entire adult life in government at some level and the CCP is China’s version of the PMC but he can never be a member of the western PMC in the way that, for example, a member of the German Green party can be. Xi can never be cycled and recycled through management positions in the media, academia, the bureaucracy and NGOs in the same way a Jacinda Ardern can be. Even though Xi is clearly a highly intelligent and capable administrator he is CCP and so is part of a different incentive structure.
      This is why Trump 45 was such an amazing and shocking event. He was fine as a business tycoon and media celebrity, even admirable, but when he crossed an invisible line into the most hallowed position of the PMC there was a major psychic freak-out as certain ugly realities of the PMC were exposed.
      Is Trump a fascist racist sexual predator? OK fine, run with that, but now you have to explain to me why this monster was a sought after media star for years, with a star on the Hollywood walk of fame and was invited by Bill & Hillary to Chelsea’s wedding.
      The freak-out was out of all proportion to the actual event, and as Dr. Peterson taught me, if you over react to an event you are not really reacting to THAT event. It was a reaction to an unresolved conflict within the ethos of the PMC, they can’t admit to themselves the actual rules by which they operate.
      It would never happen in the CCP by the way, they have rules and they are very strict but they are also explicit and they live by them.
      
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      November 8, 2024 7:50pm
- thirteenstars
  
  Hilarious:
  
  “Jan 6 becomes a federal holiday: All citizens will be required to leave out McDonald’s for Trump on January 6 Eve.”
  
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  November 8, 2024 10:32am
Maggy Wassilieff

What an indictment on the quality of education children from the wrong side of the tracks are receiving.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/who-is-getting-into-medical-school-and-health-courses-study-shows-affirmative-actions-successes-and-failures/S5FAAHGW45H2HDWHU54C3QP2F4/

Over the last 30 years, there had been no shift in the rate of students from the lowest decile schools (8.5%) or the areas with the highest deprivation levels (1.8%).

“That also gives pause for reflection,” Crampton said. “Structures of opportunity are heavily stratified in our society and that, from my point of view, is alarming and a matter of concern.”

Crampton said there had been relatively little deliberate effort made to attract students from poorer backgrounds. It required engaging with students early in their schooling and supporting them through to the completion of their degree, he said.
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November 8, 2024 8:07am
- cmm
  
  I don’t think you can really blame the educators.
  
  “Crampton said there had been relatively little deliberate effort made to attract students from poorer backgrounds.”
  
  Well, yes, the focus has been on race. Therefore a Maori kid from a professional family in the leafy suburbs gets the nod over a white kid from the blue collar end of town.
  
  By far the biggest challenge with education is to get the kids (and their whole family) in a position where they want little Jimmy to do well at school and become a doctor, engineer or whatever.
  
  If Little Jimmy is raised in a household with 4 generations of labourers and meat workers then chances are he is fed a constantly negative view of professional people, academic excellence etc.
  
  While, generally, Asians want their kids to do better than they do no matter their current position, and so do most white and Maori professionals the same does not apply to blue collar whites and Maori.
  
  Most blue collar whites and Maori feed their kids nonsense about “acting white” or “so you think you’re better than the rest of us” etc.
  
  On top of that there is natural intelligence. IQ. IQ is somewhat inherited. IQ is not evenly distributed through the population.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:49am
  - Handyman
    
    When are they going to address the institutional sexism of the gender imbalance?
    People have right to be treated by a doctor of the same sex.
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:59am
    - JackRabbit
      
      After serious consideration, and observation, especially if your life hangs in the balance, I think most people would want to be treated by the person who is most experienced in treating their particular issue and saving their life.
      
      In any hospital in critical care, you lose dignity and have to put your ego aside to get the help you need. In public, your rights are somewhat limited.
      
      If you go private you can choose whatever race or gender you like, provided that there are medical professionals of your chosen race and gender that can still do what is necessary to ensure a successful outcome.
      
      The primary role of a health professional is to save lives and treat issues – e.g. do no harm.
      
      Considerations about sex and race are “nice to haves”, but the most important “must have” is someone who can cure you and/or save your life.
      
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      November 8, 2024 10:51am
      - Bridgenag
        
        Lets face it…if they don’t ask about your stress, eating and sleeping habits they are just drug dealers
        
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        November 8, 2024 1:01pm
      - Handyman
        
        JackRabbit, you are quite right of course. I missed the sarc sign.
        The statement was often made back when there were few women doctors.
        Now that two thirds of new doctors are women, it would be sexist if a guy asked for a male doctor.
        Personally, I’m with you. Competence is all tat matters.
        
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        November 8, 2024 2:28pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Bridge
        It would be interesting to know how much the average doctor made for pushing the experimental drug for pfizer.
        
        Strange, that in the face of what they described as a pandemic and an existential threat to mankind, everyone involved in pushing the drug charged the full whack!
        During the war people were jailed for profiteering.
        
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        November 8, 2024 3:34pm
    - DimChappie
      
      Crampton mentioned the gender imbalance:
      
      “Women now made up nearly two-thirds of all enrolments in health professional programmes, up slightly from 1994.
      “I think that the gender balance in tertiary education is worth thinking very carefully about,” said Crampton. “Because at what point do we as a society become concerned by the relative under-representation of young men in tertiary education?”
      
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      November 8, 2024 6:26pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I don’t think you can really blame the educators.
    
    up to a point, I can..
    
    We’ve known for decades that some schools are failing to raise a large cohort of their pupils to a level of literacy and numeracy that they can cope with the secondary school curriculum …let alone University level studies.
    
    https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/360467856/number-illiterate-uni-students-crisis-level
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-monitoring-study-of-student-achievement-finds-more-than-half-of-students-still-failing-year-8-maths/2ZM437EDRVCSHPDSVBVADIW2OU/
    
    I know the data about folks from labouring/meat working/blue collar families.. because that’s my background (altho’ admittedly both my parents had a trade).
    The kids from those families are just as likely to be distributed along the Bell-curve of intelligence/ work ethic as kids from middle-class or professional families.
    
    But if an able child ends up in a primary school without a decent maths teacher and later in secondary school without competent maths/physics/chemistry teachers.. then it is going to be damn hard for them to get the marks they need for entry to Med School.
    
    The upper decile schools know damn well that they need decent maths and science teachers if they’re providing foundation fodder for Med schools.
    
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    November 8, 2024 11:23am
    - wsk12345
      
      Why not blame the parents who are sending theor kids to school unable to string 3 words together in a sentance, count past 3 or wipe their own arse.
      
      The teachers are way off being able to teach them much at all.
      
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      November 8, 2024 11:36am
    - Bridgenag
      
      Only need 70% I think for Otago
      
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      November 8, 2024 1:01pm
- 7kiwi11
  
  So if your poor, white and male being a Doctor is but a dream.
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:15am
  - imalwaysright
    
    7k,
    Well, the chances of it becoming reality are slim.
    That doesn’t mean poor white kids are thick, it does however indicate the influence of circumstances.
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:57am
  - sirknz
    
    Poor kids are just as bright, and just as talented as white kids.
    
    – Joe Biden 08/08/2019
    
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    November 8, 2024 11:01am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      He should have woke-up about the poor white trash on his tail.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillbilly_Elegy
      
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      November 8, 2024 11:47am
Yvette

“Treaty” – again
A Waitangi Tribunal report, provided to the Guardian, said “if this bill were to be enacted, it would be the worst, most comprehensive breach of the Treaty … in modern times. If the bill remained on the statute book for a considerable time or was never repealed, it could mean the end of the Treaty.”
The Tribunal said the redefined principles would limit Māori rights and Crown obligations, hinder Māori access to justice, undermine social cohesion, reduce the constitutional status of the treaty, and was in breach of the current principles.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/07/treaty-of-waitangi-new-zealand-founding-document-changes-bill

The Waitangi Tribunal report was not “provided” to me – but I just looked it up –

Ngā Mātāpono/The Principles: Part II of the Interim Report
Wai 3300 – Tomokia ngā tatau o Matangireia – the Constitutional Kaupapa Inquiry
https://forms.justice.govt.nz/search/Documents/WT/wt_DOC_221817323/Nga%20Matapono%20Ch6%20W.pdf.

I have not yet read it’s 122 pages

Meanwhile the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill is here –
https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2024/0094/latest/whole.html

Summarised by AI –

Chat AI – please summarise the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill into about 200 words –

The purpose of this Act is to formally incorporate the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi into New Zealand legislation, requiring these principles to guide the interpretation of relevant laws. Key definitions include “historical Treaty claims” and “Treaty settlement Acts,” which reference prior laws addressing Māori claims and rights, such as the Ngā Mana Whenua o Tāmaki Makaurau Collective Redress Act and the Māori Commercial Aquaculture Claims Settlement Act.

The Act establishes three main principles from the Treaty:
(1) The New Zealand government holds full authority to govern for the collective welfare, upholding rule of law and democratic values;
(2) The Crown will respect and protect the rights of Māori iwi and hapū, as recognized at the time of the Treaty’s signing, though these rights may be subject to interpretation through historical claims; and
(3) Equality before the law, ensuring equal protection and human rights for all without discrimination.

The Act mandates that these principles should be used to interpret relevant laws unless specifically exempted (e.g., Treaty settlement Acts). It also clarifies that it does not alter the original text of the Treaty of Waitangi.

And it actually looks like Christopher Luxon in various statements has independently corroborated each of these points, just not exactly in the same context.–

During Question Time, Green Co-Leader Chloe Swarbrick pushed him on the issue multiple times, asking “does the prime minister believe that Māori ceded sovereignty?”
Luxon responded saying “our position is the Crown is sovereign.”
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/525689/the-crown-is-sovereign-prime-minister-christopher-luxon-says

“I have always believed Article 2 gives all New Zealanders the right of determination over their lives and their properties,” he said.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/treaty-principles-bill-pm-christopher-luxon-responds-after-open-letter-from-more-than-400-church-leaders/77JYMB5WZRAEBMF77VGI55RJXE/.

So Christopher Luxon seems to believe –

The Crown is sovereign and the Treaty gives all New Zealanders the right of determination over their lives and their properties

See? – simpler and even shorter
( sorry, this comment wasn’t )
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November 8, 2024 8:08am
- fernglas
  
  In my view, Principle/Article 3 has been badly misconstrued. In Sir Hugh Kawharu’s translation of the Treaty, it provided ” …. the Queen of England will protect all the ordinary people of New Zealand and will give them the same rights and duties of citizenship as the people of England.”
  One of the duties of citizenship of the people of England was to be subject to the sovereignty of the Crown. The notion of giving rights has ignored the reciprocal obligation of imposing (and accepting) duties. That should be explicitly stated.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:49am
  - Yvette
    
    Likewise, Fernglas, totally misconstrued is that the Treaty is a Founding Document, but is between Maori and the Crown, and does not address the other 82 percent of non-Maori New Zealanders, which is little bit of a bugger. They should perhaps be explicitly stated.
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:38am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      IMO the Treaty is totally inadequate as a founding document. Compare it to the USA or Australian Constitutions.
      
      Of course trying to come up with one would cause a nightmare.
      
      I have to admire the founding fathers of Australia. IIRC getting agreement from each colony on the constitution took about 7 years. But they kept at it. Still in use today, and attempts by Australian governments to mess with it have been rejected by the Australian people every time. The only changes made to the original constitution since federation have been non contentious, eg mandatory retirement age for high court judges.
      
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      November 8, 2024 12:07pm
      - kowtow
        
        It’s not the founding document .
        
        It was the initial sale and purchase agreement .
        
        The founding documents came later with the royal charter and letters patent .
        
        All these documents have tobe taken together in context .
        
        But here and now in NZ the far left race radicals ( and other idiots) want to reduce everything to the simplistic “the Treaty”.
        
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        November 8, 2024 2:55pm
- Grunter
  
  “Yes, I agree with all of that, but hey, I’m a soft-cock, so I don’t want to rock the boat and support this Treaty Bill”
  Christopher Luxon
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:25am
  - Yvette
    
    So, harden up just a little and don’t do it in the waka – waka ever you do
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:39am
- imalwaysright
  
  Clause 2 is the weak point.
  
  Its a can of worms and Seymour is handing maori activists the tin opener.
  
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  November 8, 2024 10:04am
  - Yvette
    
    Imalwaysright the proposed act says –
    
    • Principle 2  (1) The Crown recognises, and will respect and protect, the rights that hapū and iwi Māori had under the Treaty of Waitangi/te Tiriti o Waitangi at the time they signed it …
    
    – so basically it should be a 1840s can opener
    
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    November 8, 2024 11:50am
    - PurplePen
      
      Why say hapu and iwi, why not say tribe and sib-tribe, and why the duplication Treaty/Te Tiriti. Which is all an aside. It is a can of worms as all of a sudden a very long list of ‘rights in 1840’ will appear that someone or some group will then need to determine what items on the list are actual rights from 1840 and what’s been made up by elite grifters.
      
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      November 8, 2024 4:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

America unburdens itself.

https://babylonbee.com/news/america-unburdens-itself-from-what-has-been?
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November 8, 2024 8:08am
- Scott
  
  Kamala was an awful candidate and underperformed Joe Biden in 2020 everywhere. Watch Jake Tapper get the stunning news from the CNN analyst –
  
  https://x.com/i/status/1854056504044744735
  
  Kamala should have improved the Democrat vote on Joe Biden somewhere right? But literally nothing. Not one county improved. There is joy in watching Jake Tapper getting absolutely stunned! 😄
  
  This was an amazing repudiation of Kamala and the Democrats everywhere.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:19am
  - mogg
    
    It’s a good time to be watching/reading news and views from all around the world. Guardian newspaper are offering their ‘staff therapy counselling’.
    Another place were having a day off for ‘collective grief counselling’. According to Dems Kamala lost because of White/Latino/Black male misogyny.
    Somebody else has compared her to a ‘cardboard cutout’, and the list goes on.
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:54am
    - Bridgenag
      
      Sky oz a good view especially the opinions
      
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      November 8, 2024 1:03pm
      - jon
        
        Bridgenag, so true. They have presenters of substance. NZ void of such talent.
        
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        November 8, 2024 5:40pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      “Guardian newspaper are offering their ‘staff therapy counselling’”
      
      Crayons and Lego?
      
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      November 8, 2024 7:22pm
- ChristopherW2
  
  I thought the Bee’s funniest one yesterday was the article ‘”Don’t Despair” says Kamala to celebrating nation’ 🙂
  
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  November 8, 2024 11:03am
Matt Long

What effect did the Pennsylvania Dutch have on the election? One thing that energised them to come out to vote for Trump was the illegal raid on an Amish natural products farm.
https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Famish-farmer-turned-republican-hero-sparks-protest-over-raw-milk-1874834&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl1%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4
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November 8, 2024 8:11am
- Matt Long
  
  By contrast the incoming Trump Administration has tapped Joel Salatin, natural foods growing guru as an advisor to their prospective Agriculture Secretary.
  https://www.thelunaticfarmer.com/blog/11/6/2024/celebration
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:14am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Political noise. Amish will not be the only ones selling raw milk.
  Here on the Shore I know of two just on the way to Mangawhai.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:30am
  - Mike
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Enjoy some salmonella with that delicious raw milk.
    
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    November 8, 2024 8:37am
    - pdm
      
      Mike as a kid growing up I drank milk straight from the cow into a (not the cleanest) mug a few times a week in the cow bail.
      
      Never ever had salmonella or any similar illness.
      
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      November 8, 2024 9:12am
      - Grumpy Silver Top
        
        I too have drunk milk directly from the cow. It’s not what comes out of the cow that is a risk to health, it’s contamination from the environment that adds risk to any food product. Milk is a good food for just about everything. A little E. coli from aerosol cow poo in the milk will become dangerous to health in a remarkably short time. At room temperature, the number of E. coli cells can double every 20 minutes The organism will grow/multiply in temperatures ranging from 20 to 37 degrees Celcius. There is good reason for pasteurisation of milk, and many other products. It’s called human health.
        
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        November 8, 2024 11:26am
      - Ghost
        
        It seems to happen a bit. I know the raw milk seller here has been closed a few times and had recalls because of listeria
        
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        November 8, 2024 11:43am
      - marcw
        
        Yes Listeria is a special problem – not only is it a high risk to immunocompromised populations (babies, pregnant women, immunosupressed, and elderly), it has the ability to multiply in food products even when stored at 4degreesC. This is why cheese, milk, cooked meats (eg. ham), and salads are all risky food sources.
        
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        November 8, 2024 4:53pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I grew up on a dairy/beef/sheep farm. There is nothing wrong with fresh milk straight from the cow. Squirt my brothers in the face with it.
      You can have your processed shit Mike.
      
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      November 8, 2024 10:36am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      IIRC before pasteurised milk, infants were vulnerable to the bacteria sometimes found in raw milk. Pregnant women could also contract listeria, sometimes fatal.
      
      I have eaten raw milk cheese without hesitation. I would not feed it to a pregnant woman.
      
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      November 8, 2024 12:00pm
  - AitchW
    
    I’m not sure what raw milk sales in NZ have to do with the American election.
    Amish farms selling raw milk were raided prior to the election which would not have made them especially kindly disposed to the government of the day.
    Perhaps you’d like to explain what the correlation is?
    
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    November 8, 2024 8:52am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Amish rebelled against the Democrat over reach.
      
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      November 8, 2024 10:46am
    - Grumpy Silver Top
      
      Having just added to the local raw milk discussion above I agree, it’s a diversion from the real topic of the thread. Apologies.
      
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      November 8, 2024 11:30am
  - Observant Octagenarian
    
    I worked for my father on a milk run in the 1950’s. We had raw milk as an option.
    
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    November 8, 2024 2:07pm
- peterwn
  
  “Pennsylvania Agriculture Department learned Miller’s products had been linked to E. coli outbreaks in two other states.” As things stand this would be the complete answer for why the raids occurred. This is particularly in the light of people getting ill from eating McDonalds quarter pounders where it seemed onion was contaminated with E-coli.
  I am somewhat surprised that with the advances in science and food technology there are not alternative methods of ensuring milk is safe without the need for ‘brute force’ pasteurisation. It might be that the farmers in question and the regulators are so culturally set in their ways that they cannot devise a system to enable unpasteurised milk to be used safely.
  In the McDonalds case I have not seen any mention of McDonalds doing anything proactive to assist the victims of E-coli poisoning apart from just being prepared to deal with forthcoming lawsuits. This is similar intransigence shown by McDonalds when suing those activists in London some years ago. McDonalds scored a narrow partial legal victory but suffered a major PR disaster in that case, so much so that they abandoned any attempt to enforce payment of the modest damages awarded (and the Metropolitan Police settled for £20,000 for improperly giving McDonalds security people information that enabled the two to be identified and sued).
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:42am
  - Mike
    
    Two good films:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLibel_(film)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Food_Nation_(film)
    
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    November 8, 2024 8:58am
- Im Right
  
  Actually should read ‘Pennsyvania Germans’…..when they first arrived they were asked where they were from, their nationality, ‘Deuchland’ was the answer (Germany in German) locals heard ‘Dutchland’ and it’s been that way ever since.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:51am
- imalwaysright
  
  I can’t believe that 67 million relatively sentient beings went out of their way to cast a vote for her.
  I wonder how many of the votes are fake.
  
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  November 8, 2024 10:11am
  - kowtow
    
    The polling shows an awful lot are “educated” , but by golly they sure ain’t clever.
    
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    November 8, 2024 10:44am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

On “The View” (Breakfast TV1) David Seymour had to correct Clarkson’s first loaded question. She was going to try and walk all over him – no such luck.
He was even asked why the date had been brought forward, and corrected again. It was the Waitangi Tribunal who aske for a date.
The Bill will end up before a Select Committee so New Zealanders can make submissions, so Luxon will not be able to stop that. He might not support it, but that just shows his childish arrogance.
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November 8, 2024 8:13am
- kowtow
  
  There’s a Deep State type element in the Nats that is very pro “Maori” issues , that sets it against the general electorate .
  Strange , but it’s very real and seems to be very influential.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:29am
  - Mark Hanley
    
    Or perhaps Luxons successful management experience and decades of managing thousands of people, directing them all to achieve his vision and goals, has brought him to dispassionately conclude that changing the constitution of a country is best done over a longer period of time.
    
    Place the idea into the minds of NZers then wait for the public to demand a referendum. That way Maori descent cam be batted away much easier, and a citizen initiated referendum makes the treaty principals legislation much harder (politicaly) for Labour to reverse.
    
    [Mod – fixed]
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:18am
    - pdm
      
      Good thought MH.
      
      I suggest every submission supporting The Treaty Principles Bill requests a binding referendum be held at the time of the next (2026) election.
      
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      November 8, 2024 9:43am
    - imalwaysright
      
      “…changing the constitution of a country is best done over a longer period of time”
      
      I assume you mean Constitution.
      
      We don’t have one, and if we did and it needed to be changed why would time be a factor?
      
      Doesn’t the fact that there is an appetite for change indicate that the reasoning for change has already occured?
      
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      November 8, 2024 10:18am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        You are correct in your “appetite for change comment”, a recent survey showed 60% of NZers support the TOW Principals bill.
        
        However the 2 big problems I alluded to in my comment are:
        1. 40% don’t support the TOW principals bill. That is a lot of people for activists to stir up so the process must be managed correctly to avoid excessive unrest.
        2. Parliament is sovereign in NZ so Labour can kill the TOW principals with the stroke of a pen when they return to power. That becomes politically more difficult when the people of NZ have given it overwhelming (80%) support via a referendum. 80% will take time to achieve.
        
        Managers soon learn solutions are worthless if people don’t buy into them. This fact alone makes Luxons job more complex and nuanced than many KB commentators seem to understand.
        
        I don’t understand your constitution comment?
        
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        November 8, 2024 11:07am
    - kowtow
      
      I go back much further than Luxon.
      
      In the 1990’s there was a very strong constituency in the party for “settlements” and very generous they were too . Doug Graham etc and this continued through to the appalling binds that Finlayson got us into , not to mention Key cosying up when he didn’t need to and now under this lot , not wanting to put it to the people in a binding referendum.
      
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      November 8, 2024 10:48am
      - Matt Long
        
        “Didn’t need to” Key brought TPM into the fold to neuter Act.
        
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        November 8, 2024 4:07pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Luxon’s Principles? Bill.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:37am
- Mike
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Luxon could stop that, if he wished. He has consistently stuck to the coalition agreement re supporting a first reading of this brain fart. National and Labour will vote to kill the nonsense after the usual suspects have let off a bit of steam.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:41am
  - AitchW
    
    Mike, why do you object to a clear, unequivocal definition of the principles of the treaty?
    Would you embrace such a bill if it were to be introduced by one of the parties on the left?
    Can it not be a good thing to have the principles clearly annunciated to avoid costly and time consuming court action in the future?
    Do you believe it to be racist, and if so can you tell us why?
    Or is this, perhaps, a New Zealand version of “Orange man bad”?
    Speaking of the orange man, don’t you just love democracy?
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:17am
    - Mike
      
      Over thirty years ago, parliament referred to the principles, which were then kindly determined by the courts. Successive national and labour governments have supported that interpretation of the treaty. I see no reason why that bipartisan consensus would be shattered by national for the political benefit of its junior coalition lap dogs.
      
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      November 8, 2024 10:04am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        1975 is not 30 years ago. 1975 is when Labour fiddled with the treaty, leading to these activist judges , lawyers and elites in Maoridom to have a different interpretation, right there is the problem, Labours meddling
        
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        November 8, 2024 12:29pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        G from Dunedin – Where is the English version of the Treaty that The Maori Version was translated from?
        It was disappeared by the Lange Govt. In the NZ Archives and has not been since 1989?
        
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        November 8, 2024 6:21pm
    - PurplePen
      
      Doesn’t the coalition agreement between NZ First and National include actually removing all reference to the Principles in legislation along with reference to the Treaty with a few exceptions. If that’s the case then this piece of legislation from ACT will be superfluous? Mind you, I’d rather it go ahead in case the NZ First changes don’t go ahead.
      
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      November 8, 2024 5:06pm
  - Clyde
    
    It must be agonising waking up every morning to find another democracy has decided to put the woke virtue signalling DEI racist crap to where it belongs and then have to decide on today’s nom de plume before trolling.
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:47am
- AitchW
  
  God. TVNZ staffers wailing about upcoming cuts and yet they persevere with their unabashed bias to the left.
  I thought that turkeys didn’t vote for an early Christmas, clearly I was wrong.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:55am
  - 7kiwi11
    
    I think the bias it so deeply ingrained that unless TVNZ is completely dismantled and re-built from the ground up it will continue the downward slope.
    
    21 1
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    November 8, 2024 9:23am
    - Burtland
      
      its needs a Twitter style rebuild – Musk needs to start a business that specializes in them
      
      11 1
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      November 8, 2024 10:11am
  - Colinxy
    
    Members of Heaven’s Gate willingly self deleted themselves. I bring this up because it demonstrates that a cult can program its members to believe and do pretty much anything.
    
    IOW, those in the Neo-Marxist cult at TVNZ could easily vote themselves an early Christmas so long as they can preach their religion to the masses.
    
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    November 8, 2024 2:36pm
  - jon
    
    AitchW the cuts dont go far enough. For a start there isnt any reason why they cant dispense with all the weather presenters and just have the newsreader giving us the weather. TV One News haven t any need to have staff based overseas for reportage, that could be outsourced to the likes of Sky News, UK, Fox, USA, (give the tired CNN with their declining viewership the miss) Sky News Aust. Viewers would certainly get a more diverse narrative too. If things are as dire as they appear, drastic action is required. Obviously just selling the channel would be the preferred option.
    
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    November 8, 2024 8:08pm
- peterwn
  
  David Seymour is following in the best traditions of vacuum cleaner salesmen. You get your foot in the door ………
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:17am
Matt Long

For nearly 400 hundred days this innocent girl has been held hostage by Islamist Terrorists and the UN and Biden’s administration has done nothing.
https://x.com/heart_israeli/status/1854502754359648405
Trump has given them until his inauguration to release her, the Hamas hugging is over.
https://x.com/TheMossadIL/status/1854487008069968363
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November 8, 2024 8:20am
- Mike
  
  The US has done nothing? Only if you count unrestricted military assistance to Israel as ‘nothing’.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:42am
  - Conservatarian
    
    Biden (after an interpreter has turned his slurring into English): “Don’t go into Rafah though Bibi. There’s nothing to see there.”
    
    11 2
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    November 8, 2024 9:21am
    - Mike
      
      US presidents foolishly think they have some control over their client state, when the reverse is true.
      
      3 19
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      November 8, 2024 9:31am
  - Burtland
    
    well the US has paid for tunnel building and the ‘education’ of the kids and come to think of it they will pay for the rebuild of it all in the future too
    
    4 1
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    November 8, 2024 10:39am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Shell Lane (The Terrace) bike rack report:

At 8.20am, two bikes in the rack. O happy day!

A calm, coolish, still morning in the Capital, ideal for cycling.
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November 8, 2024 8:22am
- pdm
  
  2 Bikes on the rack Bollocks!!!
  
  Dear amazed – is that a record?
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:29am
  - AitchW
    
    Mayor Whanau and some other impoverished public servant forced to sell their car to make ends meet perhaps?
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:01am
  - Conservatarian
    
    Remember Wellington’s civil servants were very very upset yesterday and took a collective “mental health” day off. Of course on full pay (they call it working from home), and most have to make an unscheduled appearance in the office on the Friday instead.
    
    That’s the reason why the bike count has skyrocketed from zero to two.
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:37am
    - John Loveridge
      
      You’re fucking joking!
      
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      November 8, 2024 11:04am
- Bobba Fret
  
  MSM would report that as a 100% increase in cycling since new bike rack installed.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:30am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Bikes owned by the Council just for looks?
  I did suggest the Council may do it.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:35am
  - Mike
    
    All of the bike racks are part of the conspiracy, Steve. Over 60% of ‘commuting’ cyclists are paid climate crisis actors.
    
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    November 8, 2024 8:45am
    - RightNow
      
      So, at least 3?
      
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      November 8, 2024 9:34am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Over 60% of ‘commuting’ cyclists are probably more likely garden variety true believer climate alarmists. The “paid climate crisis actors” are the seat warmers in academia collecting grants for writing unfounded and untested bollocks about the climate. I would say many have serious doubts but know they’d lose their careers if they spoke up.
      
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      November 8, 2024 7:27pm
- Matt Long
  
  Has anyone seen any bikes on the bus racks that are now illegal because of safety concerns.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/bike-racks-on-buses-banned-in-hawkes-bay-were-very-disappointed-to-be-forced-into-this/GZLBP7KJSRFKRA6XB7LFI2X3OY/
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:39am
  - peterwn
    
    NZR Road Services buses used to have hooks mounted on the front for pushchairs (there were no spaces for pushchairs, wheelchairs etc inside the buses then). Obstructing headlights would not have been an issue as it would be unlikely that passengers would want to carry pushchairs after dark.
    
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    November 8, 2024 8:47am
  - Taieri
    
    Has anyone seen any bikes on the bus racks that are now illegal because of safety concerns
    ————–
    
    Saw one yesterday. Not sure whether the rack was legal or illegal but a bike was placed on it.
    
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    November 8, 2024 8:53am
Matt Long

Abortion and STD clinics beg for government support as liberal women pledge to withhold sex as punishment for electing Trump.
https://www.fastcompany.com/91224625/what-is-the-4b-movement-women-practice-no-sex-in-a-quest-to-regain-rights-post-election
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November 8, 2024 8:25am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Those will be the women that have full beards and adams apples Matt. Or are mad cat ladies….
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:28am
- artemisia
  
  No sex? These women might not be too keen on what happens next.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:38am
- Mike
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysistrata
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:47am
  - Flossie
    
    If you put up links without any description of what it’s about there is no way I’m wasting my expensive data on opening them.
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:44am
    - peterwn
      
      Anyone with a good knowledge of history and things in general would know who Lysistrata was and what she advocated.
      
      3 1
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      November 8, 2024 6:06pm
- Yvette
  
  Matt, is this sex ban a punishment, or just endeavouring to avoid pregnancies under Trump (so to speak)
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:08am
  - AitchW
    
    Self flagellation (so to speak) perhaps?
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:58am
    - Yvette
      
      Is that what Sir John Key did with his 2015 – 16 referendums?
      
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      November 8, 2024 12:22pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Odd that these types portray themselves as intelligent and aware, yet they seem unable to avoid getting pregnant.
  
  Its not rocket science.
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:32am
  - peterwn
    
    But what about the immaculate conception?
    
    1 1
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    November 8, 2024 6:07pm
- RightNow
  
  Yuss! Put Planned Parenthood out of business 😄
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:35am
- Jake Dee
  
  I have yet to see any so called “Sex Strike” that wasn’t an utterly bogus publicity stunt.
  
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  November 8, 2024 8:03pm
Bimbo

The Treaty Principles Bill is out in its final form prior to debate and public submissions.

As expected, it’s engendered intense objection from a section of Maoridom. I was looking at some of the names involved in the protest movement. It includes old trougher “Underpants” Morgan. Of course the troughers will line up. They fear losing their payouts and government bribes to allow things to happen.

There’s going to be yet another boring hikoi from up north to Wellington. I assume most of the hikoi don’t work. Probably on benefits or involved in the government-funded grievance industry.

I was suspicious of Act’s intentions, initially very against the bill. I’ve come to change my mind. I think this could be a conversation long overdue. A learning process for many.

Whatever Act’s intention we’re going to be immersed in treaty stuff. We’ll all become better informed by the end of this.

Even, as promised by the Nats and NZF, the bill dies after the first select committee hearing this won’t be the end of it.

Act will campaign strongly on it again in 2026 if there seems a very strong desire from the people to further define the treaty. I strongly suspect there will.

Of course this is driving a section of Maoridom absolutely bananas but we do live in a democracy where free and open speech isn’t yet forbidden.

Nobody is advocating killing the treaty. It’s been meddled with by the courts for the past 50 years with probably the best of intentions.

Why not have a discussion all New Zealanders can read, see, be part of or listen to? Why not try to cement the original real intentions of the treaty in codified law?

This is really only beginning. It’s not going away despite the wishes of some. Why are they scared of us all being able to be involved?

I strongly support the Maori version of the Treaty. It’s what gives legitimacy to our nation. Maori dearly wanted the treaty. They dearly wanted the crown to protect them from the depredations of the whites and their land-grabbing agents like the New Zealand Company.

Maori saw what the European brought to the table. They liked what they saw and wanted to be part of it. By 1840 many Maori had travelled internationally. They’d seen European society. They liked what they saw. Remember life was pretty short and hard for most Maori back then.

They’d just emerged from about 20 years of exterminating each other in the Musket Wars and knew it had to stop.

The Brits actually didn’t want yet another colony. They were expensive to run. But they agreed to instil British law here mostly to stop the wars and the NZ Company’s thieving. But also to protect Maori.

Bring on the discussion. Our country is strong enough for it. We are becoming so part of each other it’s time.
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November 8, 2024 8:45am
- pdm
  
  `I assume most of the hikoi don’t work. Probably on benefits or involved in the government-funded grievance industry.’
  
  They sure as hell won’t be paid out of any Iwi money received through Treaty Settlements. Notwithstanding that Ngapuhi have not settled because they cannot agree on who negotiates for them.
  
  That Treaty Settlement dosh is reserved for the elite Maori.
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:18am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    The fact that Ngapuhi cannot agree within themselves is the sign that the tribes did not agree across the board pre 1840 (and post) and as such the TOW saved them from their Musket War fates.
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:22am
  - Bernard Black
    
    A small bunch of radicals spending a lot of time walking around complaining.
    If they wanted to get really radical they try getting a job.
    
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    November 8, 2024 12:06pm
  - Jack5
    
    Radio NZ offers a time line on the Treaty Principles Bill:
    
    Timeline
    
    -Bill introduced to Parliament 7 November.
    
    -Hīkoi protesting the bill begins 10 November, departing Cape Reinga on the 11th, to arrive at Parliament on Monday 18 November.
    
    – First reading debate on the bill during the week of 11-15 November. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon will not be in the country during that reading.
    
    – After first reading, Bill to be sent to select committee for six-month public hearing process
    – After select committee, Bill to be sent for second reading debate in Parliament – where all parties but ACT have promised to vote it down.
    
    State radio elevates the protest march – hikoi – into the agenda.
    
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    November 8, 2024 1:03pm
- Mod88
  
  Te Maori Elites are packing a massive tantrum after coming so close to realising all their dreams coming true under the Ardern Labour Govt and it’s successor although Hipkins saw the writing on the wall once Jacksons/Maori Caucus He Puapua nonsense became Public Knowledge. They sowed the seeds of this Bill themselves and now it will get legs for a “Binding” Referendum as it should. The vast Majority of NZers have had enough of the Treaty nonsense with good reason. It is time to move on. The most important part of the Treaty is “We are now one people”. The End.
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:29am
  - Burtland
    
    maori got to have a say on He Puapua but the rest of NZ dont
    – transparency according to Cindy and Labour
    
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    November 8, 2024 12:17pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Maori fight this Bill because they don’t want to lose their massive welfare payouts.
  Thing is the activists never see a cent of that money, just the Elite do.
  
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  November 8, 2024 11:12am
- PurplePen
  
  Discussion? Not according to some intellectual who said on radio this morning that we’re not intelligent enough to discuss it. Plonker.
  
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  November 8, 2024 5:11pm
Benedict Yu

Serious question. Why doesn’t the government close it? Or sell it for $1? What exactly is the issue?

If there is a market failure in “New Zealand audio visual news”, the government could put it out to tender. A bunch of journalists club together and offer to provide news covering a region. Small subsidy for public interest stories. In English.

The TVNZ “news” is just cringe. Even the weather report makes my blood pressure rise.
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November 8, 2024 9:31am
Benedict Yu

Now many USA government employees are busy today deleting their pronouns from their email signatures? 😃
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November 8, 2024 9:32am
- imalwaysright
  
  Hopefully Musk will adopt Vivek Ramaswamy’s idea of how to cull the public disservice – tell everyone whose social security number is even that they are no longer employed.
  
  Maybe we could try that here.
  Then the following week we could do the odd numbers.
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:44am
  - Local Miller
    
    This wouldn’t work, most of them probably don’t know what “even” means. They will all be asking: “Even what?”
    
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    November 8, 2024 1:00pm
- AitchW
  
  BY, quite a lot of them/they/zhi/🐧 I imagine.
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:47am
- artemisia
  
  Election results from DC and Virginia indicate swamp territory.
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:52am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They will be shitting if Elon Musk becomes the CEO of the Department of Waste Cuts.
  
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  November 8, 2024 11:15am
Ghost

I was watching some youtube clips last night from USA election, it made me realise how quiet it is here

We don’t have the prime ministers partner running to the media to explain what the prime minister said or meant. No tweets from the partner telling new Zealanders what to do. No tweets saying what was meant by the prime minister. No acting like you are more than just the partner. Strangley no tv shows hosted by the partner either. Peace and quiet.
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November 8, 2024 9:42am
- imalwaysright
  
  What are you going on about?
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:45am
  - Ghost
    
    Pretty obvious if you were in nz under the Ardern [Mod – not really] government
    
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    November 8, 2024 11:48am
    - Ghost
      
      Gayford Was often posting defending Ardern, explaining what she was doing, pushing the Covid government lines, he was acting as though he was part of the government
      
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      November 8, 2024 12:58pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yes he was – but even disguised as ads
        
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        November 8, 2024 6:26pm
- Flossie
  
  Didn’t we have something like that on occasion from our recent so-called first man?
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:47am
- pdm
  
  Ghostie – do you mean like Mr Helen Clark (Peter Davies) used to do under his own name, without disclosure, back in the early 2000’s?
  
  Or even Michael Cullen’s wife who used to do the same under her maiden name Anne Collins – also without disclosure.
  
  Or maybe Jacinda’s Fiancee in more recent times.
  
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  November 8, 2024 9:52am
  - Ghost
    
    Strange it’s always the labour partners
    
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    November 8, 2024 9:59am
  - Taieri
    
    Or even Michael Cullen’s wife who used to do the same under her maiden name Anne Collins
    ———
    
    Collins was a politician in her own right, an MP from 1984 to 1990.
    
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    November 8, 2024 10:08am
    - pdm
      
      Taieri – this was after they married.
      
      They lived in Havelock North and she was a regular writer to `The Editor” of various newspapers under Anne Collins, without disclosure.
      
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      November 8, 2024 1:16pm
  - kowtow
    
    Chippy’s Mummy a big influencer in education policy ?
    
    nb that’s a nickname Labourites use for him so hoping that meets the mod’s imprimatur .
    
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    November 8, 2024 11:38am
AitchW

I’m very uncomfortable with the tendency (which I believed started with Ardern) to refer to the PM’s immediate family as the ‘first family”. It implies a level of deference alien to our culture.
I noticed that some called Ardern’s fiancé ‘the first bloke’ which I thought was a good counter to the grovelling epithet ‘first gentleman’.
Let us not forget that it is a basic tenet of this country that Jack is as good as his master.
Let the Americans keep the first family.
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November 8, 2024 10:05am
- Ghost
  
  Clarke, who by the downticks has 3 fans was called the first man. I don’t think I’ve heard luxon’s wife called the first lady.
  
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  November 8, 2024 10:24am
  - John Loveridge
    
    Not much of a man, first or not.
    
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    November 8, 2024 11:06am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The NZ Herald tried it a couple of weeks ago…
    cringeworthy reporting!!!!
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/a-soggy-saturday-in-samoa-with-new-zealands-first-lady-amanda-luxon/2HLDVCG6NRFXBP45SAB7JK2X2Y/
    
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    November 8, 2024 12:47pm
    - Ghost
      
      New Zealand’s First Ladies and Gentlemen are very rarely in the public spotlight
      
      Except when the media are pushing Gayford to protect their puppet.
      
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      November 8, 2024 12:55pm
  - AitchW
    
    There was an item on TVNZ recently which referred to the first family. Please don’t ask for dates and times….
    
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    November 8, 2024 1:09pm
- kowtow
  
  Isn’t this part of the insidious , dark and deceitful world , not of the “American” but of our very own Media Party , who at all levels overtly claim to hate all things “American” and yet insist on whoelheartedly adopting and pushing the worst aspects of the Elitist out of touch sneering snobby American media/entertainment complex issues .
  
  Right down to adopting the ridiculous fad of shlurring their S’s .
  
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  November 8, 2024 11:49am
Bridgenag

My Letter to RFKjr
He has an extraordinary opportunity to be a MAJOR contributor

“To our profound detriment, what has replaced real Science is political Science. What that means is that technical matters are dealt with based on political correctness, on virtue signaling, on who profits, etc. None of these have anything to do with real Science, or what is in the best interest of the public and our country.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/criticallythinking/p/my-letter-to-rfkjr?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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November 8, 2024 10:11am
thirteenstars

Trump, Musk, Kennedy, Gabbard, Rogan and P’Nut dancing to Staying Live:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/DEgg5X6ZZUw

That little rodent can really move.
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November 8, 2024 10:59am
Jethrod

I have just seen an absolutely terrible headline in our august NZ HERALD, that reads….
“Biden addresses American people and calls to drop The Treaty Principles bill.”
What junior cub reporter put that together , then snuck it past a proper(?) journalist to be displayed on the Herald New Zealand website?
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November 8, 2024 11:00am
Scooter

It seems the trawling out of the celebs to endorse Kamala had little or no effect or maybe they actually counted against her in the end. What the elites do or say won’t have much sway with the working class or the poor. Or maybe people saw them for just being a group, ready to jump on the latest feel good crusade, isolated by their wealth from any real affects from either political side.
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November 8, 2024 11:00am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Patriotic Americans usually take a very dim view of fellow americans who berate the country and they find those that make statements of leaving their country if they do not get their way rather unpatriotic.
  Let’s be clear this is the same celebs for the tird time that had stated these things and then not followed through. They are what is known in the venacular as twats.
  
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  November 8, 2024 11:42am
- cmm
  
  Yup, when you’re upset about grocery prices and are earning $17 an hour it is hard to be swayed by someone who flew in on a private jet and got paid $2.5M for a 5 minute endorsement.
  
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  November 8, 2024 11:58am
  - kowtow
    
    The private jet brigade who dare to lecture us on carbon footprints and the media luvvies who fail to fact check them ( I say that as fact checking is one of their faddish compulsions since 2016) or to even call out their rank hypocrisy.
    
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    November 8, 2024 12:30pm
  - AitchW
    
    Especially when they claim to support the socialist left yet are poster children for capitalism! Woke, posturing, closeted hypocrites.
    
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    November 8, 2024 2:49pm
Jack5

A coming issue: “Maori freehold” as security for lenders. The Left, Wokies, and Maori activists would welcome this arcane issue being sneaked through without voter attention.

Commenting on the Trump victory, NZ’s Reserve Bank notes:

The RBNZ’s recent stress test asked banks to identify scenarios that might lead them to breach their capital requirements.

Capital requirements are also the issue here. Lending banks must meet requirements based on security offered by borrowers. Lending based on freehold land that lenders can if need be sell up is high level.

What if the Reserve Bank, or the Government, were to put “Maori freehold” land on the same security level as normal freehold land? “Maori freehold” is land that’s always been Maori owned, is community owned, and is inalienable – that is, it cannot be sold, even by a lender.

Re-rating “Maori freehold” as security for borrowing would require guarantees. Webs of trusts, as “owners” of this land or as guarantors of borrowing, surely wouldn’t cut it.

Next possibility would be a State guarantee for borrowing on “Maori freehold”.

That just might damage NZ under the international banking standards, and it would create a two-tier system of borrowing — one basically based on race.

As for the RBNZ stress tests mentioned above, the bank Governor, Adrian Orr, said central banks around the world were asking the financial sector to prepare for a possible shock.

Focus, RBNZ, focus, focus …

https://www.interest.co.nz/economy/130632/reserve-bank-officials-say-global-inflation-generated-president-elect-donald-trumps
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November 8, 2024 11:31am
- Ian Boag
  
  a State guarantee for borrowing on “Maori freehold”
  
  A novel thought. Does anyone know how much Mf land might be involved and what the guarantee would amount to? Are we looking at millions, hundreds of millions, the odd billion or what?
  
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  November 8, 2024 1:24pm
  - Jack5
    
    “Maori freehold” land accounts for 5.5 per cent of NZ’s land area, according to this source. That is 1.45 million hectares.
    
    Around a third of it is unoccupied, or unused.
    
    Communal land ownership has been an economic handicap for indigenous people in many countries.
    
    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/default/files/Te%20Ture%20Whenua%20Maori%20Reform%20Reference%20Notes.pdf
    
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    November 8, 2024 1:33pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      So taking out the idle/unoccupied stuff we end up with about a million hectares. Maybe 100k of that would be suitable to build on (wild guess). A million houses give or take a bit. Well I guess that level of contingent liability will never fly ….
      
      Samoa and Raro (the ones I know about) have similar problems with land ownership.
      
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      November 8, 2024 2:24pm
cmm

Auckland rail to close for 96 days (probably more like 120 when done) for upgrades.

In Japan they managed to do a significant upgrade in 3 days during which services were unaffected. They even had to move lines around which they managed to do in a few hours between 1 and 5 am when trains were not running.

Compare:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BYW4YYqG5A

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360480386/auckland-train-network-close-96-days-upgrade-works
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November 8, 2024 11:56am
- Local Miller
  
  While it does seem over the top, the headline is very misleading. It implies 96 days of continuous closure, which is not the case if you actually read the article.
  The total closure time will be 96 days, but much of it will be evenings and off peak and holiday periods. So several hours on a Saturday and Sunday evening rather than closed all day Monday.
  
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  November 8, 2024 1:13pm
  - Handyman
    
    The 96 days of non-contiguous closure follow 300 days of continuous closure last year for the eastern line.
    
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    November 8, 2024 5:52pm
- Handyman
  
  If the work is required to implement the rail loop it should be included in the total. So the $3b should be added to the $6b which still does not include the $1-2 b to upgrade the rail signalling software which cannot handle loop logic.
  
  All this so commuters on the western line can avoid going via Newmarket station, saving 10 minutes per trip.
  
  Somewhere, a choice was made not to build new hospitals at Dunedin, Whangarei and Nelson, but instead a build a rail tunnel through the electorates of two Labour Ministers of Transport and that of Clark/Ardern.
  
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  November 8, 2024 1:34pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Here’s a name we haven’t heard for a few months….

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360480408/us-president-elect-donald-trump-names-susie-wiles-white-house-chief-staff

(yes, yes, I know the spelling is different)
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November 8, 2024 12:20pm
Yvette

Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi … also called on the “legal brains” of New Zealand to look into whether Seymour’s introduction of the bill was treasonous or not, as “he hasn’t consulted with the monarch themselves”.

Armchair legal opinion for te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi :

• 9 Treaty of Waitangi/te Tiriti o Waitangi not amended
Nothing in this Act amends the text of the Treaty of Waitangi/te Tiriti o Waitangi.

The Treaty is in no way altered so supposedly no repercussions one assumes with the Monarch.
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November 8, 2024 12:23pm
- AitchW
  
  Bush lawyers trying to disrupt parliament the other day with points of order to that effect. The two leaders of the Maori party made tits of themselves pushing for repetitive points then got a telling off from a clearly irritated speaker.
  Puerile points scoring, it would have played well to the activists.
  
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  November 8, 2024 1:15pm
- Local Miller
  
  Rawiri was told by the Speaker of the House during question time that the GG was notified after the opening of Parliament of all bills being proposed by the Government as is the custom, and that this is defined as the legal requirement to “consult with the monarch”.
  RW is full of that smelly brown stuff and is clutching at straws to try get the bill stopped. I think he’s aware that should this bill be passed, the gravy train is going to be completely derailed for ever.
  
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  November 8, 2024 1:26pm
- Eastlander
  
  Happily he’s stupid enough to believe that treaty of Waitangi has some special constitutional significance that puts it outside the power of Parliament to touch. Well, there’s a few members of the legal profession who agree – we might still be treated to the spectacle of a judge attempting to invoke Cooke’s musings in Taylor v Poultry Board to strike down an Act of Parliament.
  
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  November 8, 2024 1:52pm
Conservatarian

On mail-in voters in 2016 and 2020:

Pew Research says 2020 mail-in ballots were 46% of total votes (i.e. 72.9m of the 158.4m votes) and Biden won mail-in voters by 65-33. Therefore Biden received about 47.4m mail-in votes (58% of his total 81.3m) and Trump received 25.5m mail-in votes (34% of his total 74.2m.

That’s a 22m lead in mail-in votes and a total win by 7m votes.

Further, turnout was 66% in 2020 vs 59% in 2016

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/

For 2016 mail-in voters, Wikipedia states this number was 33.5m (24% of the 137m total votes)
Ballotpedia puts mail-in votes in 2016 at 33m (23.5% of 140m total votes):
https://ballotpedia.org/Analysis_of_absentee/mail-in_voting,_2016-2018

My note: any reference above to a Biden voter, vote and win in 2020 should be read as a quote unquote voter, vote and win.
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November 8, 2024 12:32pm
- Conservatarian
  
  I should have noted that mail-in voting in 2024 appears to be 39m to date ( 46% of the 84.5m total early vote (i.e the sum of mail-in plus in person early voting)
  
  https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/president-results
  
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  November 8, 2024 12:57pm
- kowtow
  
  It can’t be said often enough .
  
  Time Magazine covered this in its article on how “the election was saved”.
  A coaltion , strangely of big business and union leaders , together with Dem activists funded in big part by tech billionaires funded an army of ballot harvesters who went to the voters who normally would not turn out ( aided by mail in voting due to covid) and secured their votes , clearly by literally many millions .
  
  Who knows what went on in those households as the activists “helped”the low information , low confidence folk fill in those ballots .
  
  It was election interference on an industrial scale .
  
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  November 8, 2024 2:46pm
kevn

Why do they all look the same…
https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1854284640422711632
https://x.com/WallStreetApes/status/1854557824816128289
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November 8, 2024 12:38pm
- Ghost
  
  I’ve been having a little laugh at all the “psychics” on YouTube who predicted Kamala. Some have removed their videos, others are claiming the election was rigged. One is claiming that people need to wait, trump will soon be sentenced to prison. Some real meltdowns going on there
  
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  November 8, 2024 12:42pm
- kevn
  
  Something to make these sad demo females happy?
  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-names-susie-wiles-first-female-white-house-chief-staff-history
  
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  November 8, 2024 1:18pm
- Local Miller
  
  Not only look the same, but sprout the same garbage. Imagine at that age having such a negative view on life that you had yourself permanently sterilized. What a sad life it must be. And that would have been before the election!
  And to think the other one actually believes that Trump voters don’t have jobs but Dem voters do. What planet do these people live on?
  
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  November 8, 2024 1:59pm
Jack5

Would even Saddam Hussein have done this?

Iraq’s Parliament, dominated by a Shia Muslim coalition is poised to:

– Reduce the legal age of consent from 18 to 9. This allow men to marry children.

– Remove women’s rights to divorce, child custody and inheritance.

Child marriage is already a problem in Iraq. A UN estimate is that 28 per cent of girls are marrying before the present legal age of 18.

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/proposed-amendments-iraqi-personal-status-law-pathway-legalization-child-marriage-and
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November 8, 2024 1:27pm
- kowtow
  
  It would have been happening in his Iraq too .
  But possibly not codified in the secular law .
  
  Interesting though that while the whole Global Wokery World is in meltdown about a stunning democratic victory in the US for a man so evil, that they have nothing to say about the Bushs and Blairs of this world who really did do serious harm to millions of people in the ME.
  
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  November 8, 2024 3:17pm
Tauhei Notts

I read that Britain’s The Guardian has offered free counselling and mental health support to employees traumatised by this week’s election result.
I think that if mental health support could cure a person of that devastating TDS then it might be money well spent.
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November 8, 2024 2:31pm
Sparrow

Totally different subject. Whilst visiting Auckland today had a interesting discussion with a friend of the family. He had concerns about the changes to the school lunch regime. Apparently one of the major suppliers is a company called Compass. According to him this is a massive UK outfit with a history of scandals and poor treatment of its staff. He wrote to the Minister in charge David Seymour enquiring if a Due Diligence had been carried out on this company prior to the awarding of the contract. Pretty simple question. I think he had written over a week ago with still no answer other than acknowledgements I know Seymour has been tied up with other stuff but could not his staff state Yes or No to the question.
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November 8, 2024 3:19pm
- artemisia
  
  Compass has been a food supplier in New Zealand for decades. Has thousands of staff. Would not have kept customers if there were issues. Possibly your friend has not noticed.
  
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  November 9, 2024 9:36am
Inandout

Are these deaths worth further investigation, regardless of which side of the Covid fence you are on?
https://www.newschannel5.com/news/teen-runner-deaths-prompting-doctors-to-investigate
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November 8, 2024 4:25pm
NZer In Exile

Trump not mincing words on his plans regarding so called “gender affirming care” *** FOR MINORS *** (once again for the disingenuous woke word twisters; this is about M I N O R S ):

https://rumble.com/v5mohon-donald-trumps-ban-on-gender-affirming-care-for-minors-will-become-a-reality.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp
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November 8, 2024 5:58pm
Jack5

Woke-ism in Southland …

Southland farmers resist as the Gore District Council, under young mayor Ben Bell, moves to designate the whole district a site of significance to Maori.

The move would give Ngai Tahu, the South Island tribe, power over resource consents.

The council’s region has no “sites of significance to Maori,” but under the move, would apply “cultural values” during resource consent applications.

Southland Federated Farmers argues the proposal is “over-reach”.

https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/360476884/gore-council-clarifies-confusion-new-cultural-values-chapter-proposed
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November 8, 2024 8:39pm
Chuck Bird

Shocking attack on Jews in Amsterdam.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/benjamin-netanyahu-orders-rescue-planes-for-israeli-football-fans-in-amsterdam-after-injuries-in-violence/RWKPHK7VABF2VKJJRD5NIETYBI/
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November 8, 2024 8:46pm

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