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November 5, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 05 November 2024

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General Debate

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peterwn

So derelect Dixon Street flats are in the news again as KO (ex Government Housing Corporation) try and evict the last tenants. They have Grade 1 Heritage Protection so cannot be demolished. Seems to me that what to do with with the building has been sitting in someone’s ‘too hard’ basket for years (you cannot be sacked for sitting on your hands). Presumably someone has figured that it is more economic to bowl the building and start over which runs against the heritage protection so the situation is deadlocked.
Possibly counting against retention would be the need for significant earthquake strengthening and the need for serious fire protection and other works to being the building up to modern standard which would be triggered by seeking a building permit for earthquake strengthening. Presumably this potentially requires serious expenditure possibly greater than the cost of a new building.
This raises the point of whether the owner (KO) should be lumbered with serious expenditure because the building was heritage protection. The responsible Minister could promote special legislation to remove heritage protection but then all hell could break loose.
Something is broken and there seems to be no fix in sight.
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November 5, 2024 8:01am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  They should rewrite the legislation so that the economic cost of keeping the building is balanced against the heritage value. Should not be difficult and would only upset a small number of people.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:46am
  - RoboRob
    
    Agreed. They should also tighten the conditions for when a building can become heritage listed. Perhaps a way to move a structure out of heritage status?
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:14am
  - Matt Long
    
    Give the Heritage Foundation charity status and let them fundraise to purchase at market value properties they consider to be of value.
    Then watch the properties turn derelict and collapse or burn down.
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:14am
    - Mike
      
      Heritage NZ (formerly the Historic Places Trust) is a Crown entity, but you can join as a member or donate to its work.
      Thank you in advance for supporting this important work.
      
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      November 5, 2024 9:54am
      - Don Beckett
        
        It’s an eyesore. What’s so “Heritage” about it – because it’s old ? or one of the first apartment buildings ?
        Bulldoze it & build something modern & functional – at this rate it’s going to rot & fall over.
        
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        November 5, 2024 10:18am
      - Local Miller
        
        Important work my left foot. My sister and my son both own houses that have heritage status. When my sister upgrade her house they got a massive $1000 contribution towards maintaining the character of the house which was essentially a dump when they bought it. My sisters place was a 1910/14 “kit set house” in Devonport that no one except them and Heritage NZ had the slightest interest in.
        Similarly, my son’s house is from this era, and it too was a dump when his partner bought it. My son has now bought into the house. As a builder he can upgrade it fairly cost effectively as they’ll do the work in their own time. The reality is that except for its age (1914) it has no historical relevance. No famous person lived there and no historical family wants the place.
        I don’t have an issue with some places being given historical status, but it has to make sense and incorporate a lot more than just “it’s old”. As an example Edmond Hillary’s old family home may have significant historical value, but some 100 year old place around the corner doesn’t.
        
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        November 5, 2024 10:20am
      - Prince
        
        Clearly their ‘important work’ doesn’t extend to paying for the upkeep of the places they deem ‘historic’. As usual, easy to spend other people’s money.
        
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        November 5, 2024 11:26am
- RoboRob
  
  The Govt needs to suck it up and follow the (stupid) rules it has set for pivate owners. If this situation highlights the issues to the govt pehaps they should be kind enough to fix the heritage buildings system.
  
  Its the same as RMA stuff. Dont put special laws to allow special projects to pass and leave a crappy system for all the unlucky ‘non special’ projects. Luckily the govt seems to be well on the way to dealing with the RMA. Something previous govts, in particular Labour, have struggled to do.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:12am
  - Colville
    
    Luckily the govt seems to be well on the way to dealing with the RMA
    
    Do you know something that I dont? I was told on Friday (by a Wellington insider) that RMA reform will be at least 2 years and past the next election.
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:37am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I thought they said RMA reform would be introduced to the house either before Christmas or shortly after. Who in Wellington are you talking too? Not a pen pusher I hope, they will hate progress
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:13am
    - RoboRob
      
      Nooooooooo. I thought it was coming next year!
      
      Please National, dont try and use RMA reform as an election cote catcher, like English did with tax cuts (and then lost).
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:13am
      - Ghost
        
        There will be 3 RMA bills, the first passed it’d third reading last month
        
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        November 5, 2024 10:27am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        They have made it pretty clear RMA will be gone soon
        
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        November 5, 2024 10:27am
      - Quail
        
        G G from Dunedin.
        No the RMA will not be gone soon, or probably ever.There will be some changes for the built environment but next to none for the natural environment.
        Councils are continuing to ramp up regulation and controls on private rural land, It is business as usual for the multi million dollar Environment industry.
        
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        November 5, 2024 11:36am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Off topic but what happens if Trump and Harris tie on the Electoral College votes with 269 each?
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:18am
  - Colville
    
    10 minutes each way for golden point then count back to see who scored the most tries?
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:39am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Each state delegation (not each representative) gets one vote in the House. There are more red states so Trump would win. However that relies on every electoral college voter continuing to vote for the party that picked them.
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:41am
  - RoboRob
    
    According to CNN
    
    ‘ If there’s a 269-269 tie, or if a third party or independent candidate wins electoral votes and keeps a candidate from reaching an Electoral College majority of 270, the next step is the same. It’s called a “contingent election.”
    
    According to the 12th Amendment, enacted in the wake of that divisive 1800 election, if no candidate gets a majority of the Electoral College votes, the new Congress, which would have just been sworn in on January 3, chooses the president. The Senate would choose the vice president. ‘
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:48am
- Warren Murray
  
  Private owners have been known to just let the buildings fall into such disrepair that they have to be demolished for being a risk to public safety. Perhaps KO is applying this strategy?
  
  It raises an interesting question of whether a Grade 1 Heritage Order trumps the Council’s Earthquake Prone Building policy or a red sticker after the next major shake.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:36am
- Local Miller
  
  Including a relevant link would be appreciated.
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:06am
- PurplePen
  
  Judging by the cost of earthquake strengthening the Wgtn central library, it would be cheaper to bowl the flats and if you want build a replica.
  
  BTW, the Wgtn library cost is currently sitting at $189M. And it is and always has been a but ugly building. Compare this with the Chch library, cost to build was $92M and it’s a gorgeous building to boot. I’d emailed a few councillors a few years back and said if you want to keep the old library, pull it down and build a replica as it would be a lot cheaper.
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:18am
- MCōs
  
  I went to Salisbury in 1988 and rented a pushbike to go and see Stonehenge about ten miles away
  Place was a huge disappointment too, but some people see some value in the place
  By contrast to get there I passed through some dinky die villages with thatched roofed cottages and pubs near meandering brooks and old stone churches
  People like me stop and have a beer and think how marvelous it must be to live in such idyllic surroundings
  People who live there pray for the day they can get the fuck out of there
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:45am
- slightlyrighty
  
  If only we hadn’t spent 350 million on an Old Town Hall!
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:48am
artemisia

Upset folk in Opotiki getting a lot of airtime about police raids, in the Herald today. Opotiki Mongrel Mob raids: Kuia says she was strip-searched, mothers tell how kids ‘traumatised’ by armed police

Herald reporting people are traumatised by police raids, and suffering long lasting effects including seeing family members arrested and removed from the home. 15 Opotiki homes were raided, and 22 of those charged were from the town.

Doubt many New Zealanders will be too bothered about ‘traumatised’ adults who are keeping children in households harbouring alleged criminals and drug dealers. One household with children alleged to have been raided 4 times in the last year, might have been a hint, and still there are are littlies living there. Maybe those adults could have considered the impact on the children of living with (alleged) criminals and drug dealers, and the potential positive impact on children seeing the justice system at work. And maybe they should be thankful if at least some of those charged are likely to be removed from the community for decent stretches.

Would have been quite nice to see the Herald include details of harm caused to families, including children by drug use in and from Opotiki.

Of course there is also the possibility none of the 22 charged will be convicted and the police will be found to have overreached, so there’s that.
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November 5, 2024 8:02am
- Cassandra
  
  I think your last sentence is unlikely. Police all over eastern BoP yesterday when we drove through. We saw 20 police cars.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:29am
  - artemisia
    
    Agree, but you know, innocent until …
    
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    November 5, 2024 8:40am
    - Colville
      
      Innocent until you put a gang patch on your back?
      
      Then you are fair game.
      
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      November 5, 2024 9:06am
- Simon
  
  “Would have been quite nice to see the Herald include details of harm caused to families”
  
  LMAO. What??
  
  Headline news about gang arrests is fake news. The gang members have all been arrested dozens of times before and nothing happens to them. Gangs are protected by the police and the state and actively promoted by MSM. Massively funded by the welfare state. Next time you see a gang member he is nothing but a ward of the state. Gang patches more like I heart the govt.
  
  The recent Opotiki arrests, wonder if they have been pushed by the Police minister for some quick headlines for the cattle. Nothing will happen to the arrested. They will be fine. MSM will use the arrests to promote the gangs instead.
  
  Lol – victims of gang crime.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:32am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Bradbury’s ranting again about it over on TDB
  
  “BREAKING: EXPLOSIVE POST CABINET LUXON – Police left baby alone in Ōpōtiki raids
  All National are doing is radicalising people with heavy handed police tactics that will see Police stations getting firebombed. “
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:38am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Ahhh Bomber, shrieking as always and laying a dog whistle for attacks on Police Stations.
    
    What an absolute bellend of a pundit…
    
    And as an aside if a Police Station is attack in the next week, can Bradbury be charged for incitement??
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:22am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Bradbury will see the upping of gang arrests will be very popular, he knows his lot failed on most things, but success will win the government a second term. This is success I would have thought
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:32am
- Mark Hanley
  
  Excellent observation and another blatant example of the left wing media bias.
  
  I’m sick of headlines like “Luxon defends”. So what if Luxon called taxpayers customers. I’d love the rest of government to refer to me as a customer and treat me as such. Competing for my money by providing better quality goods and services at lower prices (which they are doing under Luxon).
  
  And the constant gotcha attempts by dim witted journalists, effortlessly batted away by Luxon, is getting a tad boring. So what if he sold his apartment (in the current property market trough) when he moved into premier house, he won’t continue in parliament as an MP so he has no need for the apartment.
  
  I predicted Luxon will be our most successful PM. The corporate management tools he is using to get results are working at unprecedented speed.
  
  My only disappointments are
  – Adern isn’t being held to account for her corruption,
  – the covid response report hasn’t been completed with suggested consequences for law breakers,
  – Seymours excellent treaty principals bill isn’t being supported beyond first reading…. yet.
  
  I’d also like to see measures implemented to prevent Kieran McAnulty following his Predecessors examples by wrecking our society and economy for his own personal enrichment (see my holding adern to account comment above),
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:46am
  - pdm
    
    `Competing for my money by providing better quality goods and services at lower prices (which they are doing under Luxon).`’
    
    Under Luxon?
    
    Not so sure about that – more driven by David Seymour, Brooke van Velden and ACT.
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:00am
  - Grunter
    
    I hate it when Luxon calls us Taxpayers “Customers”.
    
    Customers enter into voluntary transactions. As a Taxpayer, I have to sit and watch as the Govt steals my money and wastes it on mostly crap. If I resist I get put in jail.
    
    So, Nah, don’t call me a customer….that’s just slimy slippery corporate-speak.
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:08am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He did it once, any evidence he is regularly saying this, he pulled his comment saying he said that because of his commercial speak, and said he will try and never say that again
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:36am
    - ISeeRed
      
      I waver between “tax slave” and “tax livestock”.
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:52am
    - Interested Party
      
      If you listen to the full comment, he said something like. “I’ve always had the belief that you give your customers, the people, the voters, what they asked for” Is that more palatable now you have the full story
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:54am
- KH
  
  It’s clearly harassment of the gangs by police. What a good thing that is. Congratulations to our boys and girls in blue.
  Keep it up.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:11am
- sirknz
  
  What happened to all the ‘by Maori, for Maori’ rhetoric they bang on about in looking after these ‘traumatised’ kids and making sure that the ‘traumatised’ kids aren’t being raised by shit tier people?
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:14am
- David Garrett
  
  art: Perhaps someone with better knowledge of matters Maori than me can answer…Does a Maori woman of a certain age automatically become a “kuia” (the male equivalent of a kaumatua) or does one have to earn that designation?
  
  I suspect it is the former, which means the “kuia” referred to in the story might be a 50 year old gang moll who is just a guilty as her male peers.
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:05am
  - Colville
    
    I believe kuia is a old female relative, a koro is a old male relative, a kaumatua is someone old and wise so its a term of respect.
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:38am
Simon

NZ economy still in trouble in 2025. Key used China to bail out NZ 2011 onward. But that China aspect looks to be closed off due to govt ending all the dirty money.

China itself is in bit of problem with its housing market and debt. Also the signal well & truly out that China vs GAE coldish war underway. The neolib wet dreams for China are over. China looked at the garbage running the West (except Trump of course but he was disposed in the fake 2020 election) and said no thanks to the shitlibs.

China is an important indicator for NZ economy. NZ’s move towards India hasnt panned out. Not sure of the story there. A lot of Indians here but no formal arrangement with India??. But overall China is on the outter and not good for NZ economy.
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November 5, 2024 8:15am
- Paulus
  
  Have heard that any formal agreement with India will depend upon our taking many more Indian immigrants first.
  It will happen, but slowly, as eve now but they appear to be the largest Immigrant numbers currently!
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:50am
- Grunter
  
  Yes to all of that. Then add in;
  1. The EU is failing as its last industrial powerhouse, Germany, crumbles under green energy BS, a lack of cheap Russian gas, and is drowned by immigrants. The rest of the EU failed many years ago and is currently propped up by Germany.
  2. The UK is a debt-ridden mess and about to endure 5 years of Starmer.
  3. Japan has no runway left to maneuver, massive debt that can only be defaulted on, and an old-age demographic problem with no solution.
  
  When ’empires’ are snookered like this, there is only one last scenario unfortunately…..
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:07am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Europe is in trouble. But what of Russia?
    
    In demographic decline, being bleed in Ukraine while the CCP eyes up its Far East provinces which where formerly China’s….
    
    The only winner in Europe is Xi and his evil philosophy. Thankfully China is in economic trouble as well so he may overreach and get completely smashed by a US resurgent under Trump
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:25am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I heard them talking about China the other day, they have grown above their break even which I think is 5% for the first time in 3 years, I know they are becoming far more active in wool as their consumers are starting to spend again
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:38am
  - BananaLlama
    
    I think coarse wool is dead mate i wish it wasn’t but i am running Wiltshire X this year and wont be looking back.
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:33am
    - Colville
      
      What is wool (non merino) used for these days ?
      
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      November 5, 2024 11:40am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

[Mod – you’ve been asked to stop doing this. You posted this last night, that’s it, post once and post correctly, don’t try to get around DPF’s instructions to you about this]
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November 5, 2024 8:15am
- Yvette
  
  The Maori hikoi is imminent, where is Julian Batchelor?
  
  The US Indigenous Tribal Leaders’ Symposium was held at Parliament in October.
  Māori economy is growing fast, but Aotearoa can learn from US tribal leaders, says expert
  
  Opinion – Māori economy is growing significantly faster than the overall economy. It is currently worth around $70 billion and is projected to be worth over $100b by 2030. This is an expression of Māori economic sovereignty.
  
  What we have learned from our experiences with our indigenous brothers and sisters is that we have made a difference and continue to make a difference and with the right support can continue to make a bigger difference without threatening the sovereignty of any others in the same country.
  
  Seeing is believing. The people of Indian country in the US are leading the way, in a way that causes no harm to others. Can we do it here in Aotearoa? Yes we can, if we allow the Māori sovereign nation, recognised in the 1835 Declaration of Independence, to continue to evolve, innovate and execute economic strategies that lift the well-being of their people and therefore the well-being of all.
  
  It’s a tired statement but “what is good for Māori, is good for everyone”. Are we really too afraid to allow Māori to thrive so that we can all thrive too?
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/532815/maori-economy-is-growing-fast-but-aotearoa-can-learn-from-us-tribal-leaders-says-expert
  
  I have visited these tribal nations where the constitution of the US recognises their sovereignty alongside the sovereignty of the Federal and State systems. Yes, their constitution recognises them as sovereign, and yes, they are ahead of us here in Aotearoa.
  – Nigel Chee, of Waikato, Ngāti Haua and Ngāti Tūwharetoa descent
  
  Why was there no initiation of any reasoned debate when the late Maori King and ACT’s Leader were both present at Waitangi?
  Why did one, or both, so seemingly studiously avoid such an obvious “conversation”
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:21am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Don’t know where Julian is atm. I’m sure he knows of this hikoi, and may even do a post on it. These days the posts are coming every 4 to 10 days, not everyday as in the past.
    The 1835 Declaration of Independence was superseded by the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840 when New Zealand became a British Colony.
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:10am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I purposely did not post the Youtube link last night.
  
  [Mod – purposely being the keyword. Follow what DPF has said you can do and stop trying to bypass that]
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:59am
BarryB

The series win by the NZ cricket team in India is so unusual and so unexpected and so rare that I have a suspicion.
India is the centre of sport gambling, and it would not surprise me if the series win was a setup. I wonder what the odds were before the first game, but the Black Caps had an awful lead-up to the series losing games all over the place and then miracle of miracles – a series win in the most unlikely place in the world.
Yes – a nice bit of data for the record book – but I am sure there are some very well boosted bank balances in India and around the world especially S.America where these things (betting by sports team members) seem to happen
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November 5, 2024 8:16am
- amospicton
  
  I think it’s unlikely with India these days – the players simply don’t need to boost their incomes this way. The worst underperformers were those least in need of the additional cash. Which means it’s all the more remarkable. Possibly the most unlikely sporting result since……Japan beat the Boks, Leicester won the premier League and Tonga beat the Wallabies.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:49am
  - Mike
    
    Yes. It’s much more likely to see match fixing in the lower profile T20 or T10 leagues.
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:05am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Sorry BB, but that’s just drivel. And you are sure. Laughable.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:36am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  One test yes, but I don’t think 3 tests
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:57am
nygr

The influence of the mongrel mob is so entrenched in small town New Zealand because of the generational existence of gangs. The gangsters from the 70s and 80s are now kaumatua on the marae. So not only are they running the gangs with their drug dealing and other crimes, they are running the marae. And enjoying the benefits of the marae with their tax free status and charitable/ govt donations.
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November 5, 2024 8:17am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Do you understand the Electoral College?

Video 5 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-qZr5SPBXw
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November 5, 2024 8:17am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Do the majority of voters understand MMP including overhang?
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:25am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The majority don’t even know what the tail wagging the dog is.
    
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    November 5, 2024 8:31am
  - AitchW
    
    Chuck, no. Despite millions of tax dollars spent on public education many, many voters have no clue about how MMP works, and even fewer understand the overhang.
    The number of people I have spoken to who think that the candidate vote decides the government is quite depressing.
    I would suggest that this needs to be taught in school from an early age, however it appears that between teacher only days, study leave, Covid, and rampant absenteeism, kids are never in class!
    
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    November 5, 2024 8:41am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “I would suggest that this needs to be taught in school…”
      
      I don’t really get it. You could learn all you need to know by reading the Wikipedia entry on MMP.
      
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      November 5, 2024 9:26am
      - Taieri
        
        You could learn all you need to know by reading
        ————-
        
        You are assuming that an ability to read with comprehension exists and is widespread among the “ākonga” attending today’s NZ schools. This, unfortunately can’t be taken for granted as indicated in the article linked below.
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/108649545/students-dont-know-what-trivial-means–what-about-these-words
        
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        November 5, 2024 9:40am
      - AitchW
        
        Benedict, yes you could. But there are a lot of people who really don’t care and certainly won’t bother to look at Wikipedia.
        And most of those people have kids, many of whom who will be equally happy in their ignorance.
        
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        November 5, 2024 9:47am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Much better if a teacher tells the kids what their idea of MMP means.//
        
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        November 5, 2024 10:05am
      - Burtland
        
        a Tik Tok video with AI cat cartoons and free KFC vouchers might work
        
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        November 5, 2024 10:15am
  - Debsta
    
    Yeah, the tyranny of low information voters, aided and abetted by a failing fourth estate = the Achilles heel of democracy.
    
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    November 5, 2024 8:58am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    TPM at 4 % would see 3 less seats, it’s almost good they may get 4% and take three seats away from the left, thing also is the support will come from Labour keeping them well away from 30 plus %
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:59am
- David Garrett
  
  Steve O: Yes, all very interesting…but the statement that “pure democracies don’t last; they all implode” as a reason for the electoral college is obviously nonsense.
  
  Britain – the mother of parliaments – has had “pure democracy for a couple of hundred years, and is yet to “implode”. Similarly our fair land, Australia, Canada, India…
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:01am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Partly democratic while have the racist Maori seats.
    
    0 1
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    November 5, 2024 11:11am
  - Colville
    
    DG.
    Starmer is trying hard to light the fuse for that implosion.
    
    0 0
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    November 5, 2024 11:43am
- Handyman
  
  In the 2016 election there was a concerted effort by Clinton to “turn” electors who travelled to Washington for the official electoral college vote.
  She wanted Democrat controlled states (whose voters unexpectedly chose Trump) to reselect the actual people to vote in the electoral college.
  The chosen electors are not required by law to vote according to their instructions, so the choice of people to become electors is crucial.
  Apparently she was doing this to “save democracy”.
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:08am
Maggy Wassilieff

Did Covid spread faster amongst those in forced quarantine (managed isolation) hotels or amongst those attending Destiny Church services?

On 18 September 2020, a person in the community tested positive for COVID-19 who had
recently returned to New Zealand but had already completed 14 days managed isolation and
returned two negative COVID-19 tests

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/2022-05/20201797_briefing.pdf

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/532749/brian-tamaki-faces-trial-over-alleged-covid-19-rule-breaches
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November 5, 2024 8:23am
- Mike
  
  Probably. Did infection spread faster in the community from MIQ or from illicit gatherings of anti-vaxxers?
  
  3 22
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  November 5, 2024 8:42am
  - Matt Long
    
    Covid infection was spread by those who took the vaccine and then mingled together largely unrestricted, because as we know the vaccine did not prevent transmission and was not even tested for preventing transmission.
    
    15 1
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    November 5, 2024 9:23am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes that is true. That is why the vaccine passes were madness.
      
      Having said that, most New Zealanders only got their two shots to get their vaccine pass. The vaccine does seem to provide some protection from contracting the virus for four to six months. So if you were to get a booster every six months you would significantly reduce your chances of contracting covid.
      
      BTW there is only one reason that I get a booster every six months. A common effect of severe covid disease is coagulating of the blood. Due to a medical condition that could prove fatal.
      
      https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8782553/
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:33am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        I had Covid once, I have been around several people who had it a second time and have. It got it a second time that I know of, I still think some people’s natural immunity is key, but clearly some have had it up to 4 times. It’s a tricky virus you know
        
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        November 5, 2024 11:03am
- kowtow
  
  Te Media Paahti giving plenty of coverage to this .
  
  Not so much to how the Dept of Education side stepped the scamdemic vax mandates.
  
  Now that’s a Bigly story.
  
  9 1
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  November 5, 2024 8:44am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    What is a “scamdemic”? You think it was imaginary?
    
    0 1
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    November 5, 2024 10:34am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Nope, but the bullshit about it killing everyone like the black plague was a scam
      
      1 0
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      November 5, 2024 11:03am
imalwaysright

Last week Michael Laws said his secondary school age son sent a prank complaint to Internal Affairs citing some fellow Fijian students as “FOB”, fresh off the boat.
Internal Affairs complained to the police who then contacted Laws.
Here are the police guidelines of their policy about something that isn’t illegal but they don’t like.
https://www.police.govt.nz/advice-services/advice-victims/hate-motivated-crime?nondesktop
Whether or not the police make contact, complaints such as this regardless of proof, go on a persons police file.
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November 5, 2024 8:25am
Cassandra

Civil war in socialist lala-land: Tim Selwyn (an associate of Martyn Bradbury) commenting on a Chris Trotter article: “Paranoid, accusatory, hysterical – and they were the best parts. The demon of gin and across-the-counter pseudoephedrine appears to have claimed another Trotter column.”
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November 5, 2024 8:27am
- Swifty
  
  Trotter is far more sober in his writing than Selwyn will ever be.
  
  (PS – why do lefties always play the man and not the ball?)
  
  15 1
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  November 5, 2024 8:42am
  - Yvette
    
    Swifty – (PS – why do lefties always play the man and not the ball?)
    
    Is not Chris Trotter a former Lefty who left the Left? Right?
    
    5 0
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    November 5, 2024 9:38am
    - NothingLeft
      
      he’s still a leftie, but hasn’t imbibed all the woke nonsense
      
      0 0
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      November 5, 2024 10:30am
      - Yvette
        
        NothingLeft – so nothing left?
        
        (bugger, someone had to do that – but why me? :o)
        
        0 0
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        November 5, 2024 10:38am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Quick – March. 🙂
      
      0 0
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      November 5, 2024 10:35am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He told everyone to vote for Peter’s, I suggest he moved to the centre
      
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      November 5, 2024 11:05am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Tim Selwyn has prior form
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Selwyn
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:52am
  - pdm
    
    kk – no need to read past the first sentence which references Selwyn’s sedition charge in 2006.
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:12am
- David George
  
  Do you have a link to the Chris Trotter essay, Cass?
  
  [Mod – here’s the article. Are we the baddies]
  
  3 0
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  November 5, 2024 9:40am
Bridgenag

Massive Korean Study Confirms Elevated Risk of Heart Disease Among Young People

Official Govt figures BY

“Firstly “Staggering New Data From Health New Zealand and Others” reported official Health NZ data obtained via an OIA, documenting a massive increase in admissions to A&E among individuals under 40, rising from 2,000 per year to over 20,000 per year.

Secondly “Breaking: 188% Rise in Mortality Risk Among New Zealand Teens Following Covid-19 Vaccination” reported official Health NZ data released under OIA showing that teens and people in their twenties had a disproportionately elevated risk of death in the 90 days following a Covid vaccination.”

https://hatchardreport.com/korean-study-confirms-elevated-risk-of-heart-disease/
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November 5, 2024 8:31am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Guy Hatchard is one of the world’s biggest con artists. Why do you continually rely on his website?
  
  Do you have peer reviewed large a scale data that shows that the risk of cardiac death from covid vaccines is higher than the risk of cardiac death from severe covid?
  
  I’m not going to engage in antivaxxer madness. Yes I get it. You think that the covid vaccines are killing everyone. Nothing will change your view. Just like the moon landing conspiracy theorists add Jehovas witnesses who won’t have blood transfusions.
  
  Millions of people would be alive today if they had been vaccinated.
  
  3 8
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  November 5, 2024 9:41am
  - newview
    
    Love your simple logic and sanity Ben
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:03am
NK

Bet of the day in the “race that stops the nation”: Okita Soushi, top 4. Paying $3.40.
6 0
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November 5, 2024 8:34am
Grunter

Anyone listen to the [Mod – use his name] Boris Johnson on Hosking this morning? He was explaining that Ukraine “Will win!” but forgot to explain how (and Hosking never asked the obvious question).

Meanwhile, in the real world, the slaughter continues. Russia heads westwards each day as the Ukraine front line starts collapsing.

And hardliner Medvedev stated a few days ago:

“If we are talking about the existence of our state, as the president of our country has repeatedly said, your humble servant has said, others have said, of course, we simply will not have any choice,” he said, per Sky News and The Sun, adding that the US and the West are “wrong” if they think Putin won’t turn to nuclear weapons if NATO sought to inflict a defeat on Russia in the Ukraine war.

“If the new [US] leader is going to be fiercely dedicated to adding fuel to the fire of the Russia-Ukraine conflict, it will be a very bad choice,” adding “Because this is the road to hell.”

“It’s really a road to World War Three,” he continued. “Whoever decides to continue the war will be making a very dangerous mistake.”

Sabre rattling bluff…..? If NATO attacks Russia, what other option does Russia have?
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November 5, 2024 8:34am
- Local Miller
  
  And Russia is doing so well in this war they started, that they have had to bring in between 10,000 and 15,000 North Korean special forces to help.
  Untested in battle, and with a language barrier to overcome with not enough interpreters, initial reports are that the Ukraine are hammering the North Korean forces.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:54am
  - Taieri
    
    between 10,000 and 15,000 North Korean special forces to help
    ————
    
    They are just a cannon fodder and their lives are disposable.
    
    12 0
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    November 5, 2024 9:02am
    - pdm
      
      Disposable or dispensable?
      
      Maybe both depending on how effectively Ukraine is able to deal to them.
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:17am
  - Grunter
    
    Yep – Russia is hardly a threat to conquering the rest of Europe with the military capabilities that they have. They have their hands full dealing to Ukraine let alone taking on NATO countries which they know would be foolish.
    
    4 3
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    November 5, 2024 9:18am
    - Handyman
      
      Russia will use salami tactics. Next is Moldova.
      Harris will do nothing.
      
      Next will be the Suwalki Corridor (between Belarus and Kalingrad). Harris will do nothing.
      
      Next will be the Baltic states (effectively landlocked between Russia and Nato reinforcements). Harris will do what Obama did -nothing!
      
      2 2
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      November 5, 2024 10:47am
  - Mod88
    
    Kim Jnr wants his troops to gain combat experience, Russia didn’t “need” them per se. Ukraine on the other hand is desperate for EU/US boots on the ground. I daresay there are undeclared Western troops operating be it Support Services or Special Forces. It isn’t Ukrainians operating the Patriot Systems etc.
    
    6 4
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    November 5, 2024 9:20am
    - Colville
      
      How many of those troops will die?
      How many will just run off for a life in Europe?
      
      I wouldnt think many will be taking the ride back to NK and further starvation.!
      
      2 0
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      November 5, 2024 10:14am
    - NothingLeft
      
      I bet Kim doesn’t want the troops coming back to North Korea bearing stories of the world beyond.
      
      Apparently the NK combat slaves are costing Russia $200 million and 700000 tonnes of rice plus some tech transfer.
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:36am
  - NothingLeft
    
    in a battle yesterday some North Koreans ended up killing a whole lot of Russians by mistake. Round eyes all look the same to them.
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:34am
- kowtow
  
  I see [Mod – use proper names] is coming here to do some talky stuff .
  I wonder how many fools will be parted with their hard earned in an attempt to tell themselves how relevant and Elite they are .
  
  4 1
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  November 5, 2024 9:02am
  - Local Miller
    
    Hi Mod, if you are going to insist on posters using proper names and deleting the euphemisms the poster originally used, please add the “proper” name, so the rest of us plebs can make sense of the post!
    
    3 0
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    November 5, 2024 10:54am
    - Grunter
      
      I usually use both (as in the above comment).
      
      The Mods are getting stricter on this – which is fair enough, thems the rules. Makes for a cleaner KB forum I guess.
      
      My nickname for Boris Johnson was only vaguely offensive to some, I’ve been called much worse on KB in the past……
      
      kowtow was referring to Boris Johnson….
      
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      November 5, 2024 11:42am
Chuck Bird

Hosking did a great job this morning interviewing Luxon.
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November 5, 2024 8:36am
- kowtow
  
  Great interview on the Platform now with UK Free Speech head honcho.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:42am
Tauhei Notts

OK. That is it. Mainstream media is totally phucked.
This morning’s N.Z. Herald has a two page sweepstake feature for Australasia’s biggest horse race, the Melbourne Cup.
Do not use that sweepstake feature. They have stuffed up the horse numbers.
The topweight in a handicap is always #1. This morning’s paper shows it as #3. And so it goes on.
But the graphics are very pretty, and it has great use of colour. But it all as accurate as their coverage of the Kackling One.
I am so old that recall Evening Peal winning the Cup, but have never seen anything like this.
11 1
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November 5, 2024 8:47am
- Conservatarian
  
  Journalismers are functionally innumerate so this is not surprising.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:25am
  - Taieri
    
    They are. Both, illiterate and innumerate. The other day it was reported that the late HMNZS Manawanui that sank last month off Samoan coast was “carrying 950 tonnes – the equivalent of 950,000 litres – of fuel.”
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/532707/start-of-cyclone-season-increases-danger-from-manawanui-wreck-expert
    
    Well, 950 tonnes of diesel corresponds not to 950000 litres, but to approximately 1144000 litres, since the specific gravity of marine diesel is not the same as that of fresh water but much lower at about 0.83
    
    But what is an additional 100K litres of fuel between friends?
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:07am
- sirknz
  
  Physical copy of the NZ Herald?
  
  Why would I do that, unless I need something for a pet to crap on, or to start a fire, my money is staying in my pocket.
  
  9 1
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  November 5, 2024 9:27am
- kowtow
  
  Today’s NZME Herald editorial comes out strongly for Mike King and scolds Ingrid Leary and labour for being “mean spirited” toward him.
  
  Yet they published only the other day a pretty low cartoon against him .
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:34am
Grunter

“I will hit all the English people in the face because they stole the land”. And “My Dad is Māori like me. I feel sorry for my Mum. She’s only Pākehā.”

Paku Manu Ariki Whakatakapōkai – The Best Picture Book Award, funded by Creative New Zealand. This is the same Creative New Zealand that funded Tusi’ata Avia’s poem that cast Captain Cook as an avatar for Europeans in New Zealand and celebrated stabbing him with a pig knife.

This is how our taxpayer’s funds are spent!! FFS – no wonder the rest of the world thinks that the West is pharked!
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November 5, 2024 8:49am
- JimBobJoe
  
  Grunter. CNZ is partially funded by Tax Payers via the Government (Min. of Culture and Heritage but also, like Film NZ also receives large sums from NZ Lotteries.
  
  Both funding sources need ending and these Arts organisations should be funded by voluntary contributions i.e. sponsorships, donations etc
  
  The Arts sector is blatantly Far Left and pushes messages that shouldn’t be State funded or sanctioned in anyway. They raise their own money then lay on and say what you will, but you & I should not be funding their AgitProp.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:33am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    and Goldsmith & Nats want to “increase the impact of our arts and culture here and on the world stage, and significantly increase the sectors’ contribution to GDP and export revenue by 2030.”
    
    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2411/S00017/governments-creative-sector-strategy-released.htm
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:56am
- Geri Sjovik
  
  I came here to post about this too.
  
  And to think Hamas running the UNRWA schools preach this sort of hate.
  
  What’s the old, and accurate, saying; give me the child and I will give you the man.
  
  6 1
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  November 5, 2024 9:49am
- BananaLlama
  
  Another self-hating racist, they are the worst of all.
  
  0 0
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  November 5, 2024 11:36am
Swifty

“Do as we say, or die.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/samuel-paty-beheading-eight-face-trial-in-france-over-islamist-links/5WNVB63FLBB6RKIOLU7FDWFWJ4/
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November 5, 2024 8:56am
- sirknz
  
  Wow. Some guys in France, behead someone else in France, and the guys who did the beheading might have Islamist links.
  
  No way…
  
  11 0
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  November 5, 2024 9:28am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘A man convicted of terrorism and sentenced to life for his involvement in the murder of four Jews in a French synagogue bombing, is an active Professor of Sociology at a Canadian University, and teaches a course on “social justice in action.’
    
    https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-827521
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:30am
Swifty

I still find myself shocked at the straight out lying by the lefty press, here in the US this time.

I know I shouldn’t, but I do.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yVhy3kDKXJ4

This time about Trump and wanting to shoot MTG.

I don’t know how the lefties sleep at night.
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November 5, 2024 9:01am
- AitchW
  
  Swifty, twisted like pretzels from their deep seated bitterness toward those more successful than them.
  
  3 1
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  November 5, 2024 9:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I think you mean warhawk RINO Liz Cheney, not MTG.
  
  2 2
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  November 5, 2024 10:15am
  - Swifty
    
    Sorry, yes, you’re quite right.
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:06am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  And their media were counting facts about Harris now running away with the polls. Only for 3 new polls showing trump leading nationally and leading 5 of the 7 toss up states and equal in one
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:13am
RoboRob

Anyone see the ‘interview’ with Luxon on the playschool TV one breakfast show?

First question, re US election, essentially ‘Kamala will be great for NZ and America, and we will have friendly relations, a Trump win would be ruinous for NZ with 20% tariffs…. right?’.

This pathetic ‘statement’ question was followed by a stream of ‘National sux’ questions. I look forward to tomorrows Hipkins interview where such questions as ‘You are a lovely, smart and caring man Chris, tell us again how a capital gains tax will fix all the problems in NZ caused by the hard right wingers?’
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November 5, 2024 9:22am
- AitchW
  
  RoboRob why bother watching if it annoys you so much?
  
  6 3
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  November 5, 2024 9:53am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    In watching one learns to understand ones enemies…….
    
    2 0
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    November 5, 2024 10:10am
  - RoboRob
    
    Fair question. I never used to watch it, I watched the TV3 show which was much much better. I have always thought the TVNZ version was crap.
    
    I watch it becuase while I have breakfast and get ready for work its handy to have a clock on the screen, news coverage and weather forcasts. I dont want to stream something I am interested in and I dont get the paper.
    
    Also it shows me the level of bias and quality of our tax payer news service (I refuse to watch any TV news in the evening).
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:17am
- NothingLeft
  
  Trump does intend to create tarriffs, and may be able to with control of house and senate somewhat likely.
  
  1 1
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  November 5, 2024 10:38am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Pretty sure the tariffs are going on countries that are taking their businesses and business with them, not so sure it is all nations
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:16am
- slightlyrighty
  
  We are a trading nation, and an economic protectionist trader is not good for a small nation such as ours.
  
  Under the Biden Presidency, NZ exports to the us increased by 20%, In the first year of Trumps presidency, they dropped from 4.04 billion to 3.69 Billion. In 2019, it had risen slightly to 3.72 Billion. Last year, it was 5.08 Billion.
  
  https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/exports/united-states
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:00am
Conservatarian

Survey data from a 2020 Pew poll indicates that white liberals disproportionately suffer from mental illness versus their conservative counterparts.

The study, which examined white liberals, moderates, and conservatives, both male and female, found that conservatives were far less likely to be diagnosed with mental health issues than those who identified as either liberal or even “very liberal.”

Young white women suffered the worst.

White women, ages 18-29, who identified as liberal were given a mental health diagnosis from medical professionals at a rate of 56.3%, as compared to 28.4% in moderates and 27.3% in conservatives.

https://wibc.com/108211/pew-study-white-liberals-disproportionately-suffer-from-mental-illness/
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November 5, 2024 9:27am
- Yvette
  
  Conservatarian, could if perhaps be that conservative minded people delineate thoughts narrowly as “right or wrong”, whether they are actually “right or wrong”, requiring not greater mental investment, but those who may ‘liberally’ question beliefs expose themselves to mental conflict in issues which are not so easily defined or filed as “right or wrong”. Follow?
  Is it disengaging “done”, compared to anxiety-inducing “I don’t know what to think”
  (I will leave my long nose versus flat nose theory for later)
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:57am
  - Local Miller
    
    Yvette, this is actually a very good and not so out there idea, although I think slightly off the mark. As a Christian Conservative I would see this from a slightly different angle. Christians believe that “at our core” we actually know what’s right and wrong. In simple terms, Huge Hefner of Bunny Girl fame was interviewed, and at the time his daughter was in her late teens, or early 20s. The interviewer raised this and asked “when is your daughter going to put on a bunny suit and come to join the party?”
    Hefner’s reply is telling, he stuttered a bit then said: ” You know this is the one part of my philosophy that I struggle with, you see I don’t want by daughter to be a bunny girl!”
    The Biblical phrase is: “god has written his laws on the tablets of our heart”.
    This means not just as a lefty, but any one of significant liberal mind set living in opposition to God’s laws of right and wrong, such a person is living in constant mental and psychological conflict, with part of their “system” telling them what they are doing is wrong, and the other part urging them to “do what they want” because this is no absolute right and wrong.
    The conservative, typically with a biblical based morality even if not specifically Christian, living closer to God’s standards of right and wrong doesn’t experience this level of internal conflict.
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:15am
- NothingLeft
  
  It’s fashionable to have mental health problems as it confers status (and an all-important claim for attention) in the hierarchy of victimhood on the left.
  
  Women have higher incidence of trait neuroticism (for sound evolutionary reasons, as net recipients of male generated resources, the squeaky wheel tends to get more grease)
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:42am
RoboRob

Just found a video and re watched the ‘interview’. The actual exact wording was ‘If elected will Kamala Harris forge closer ties with NZ and if she loses how disruptive could a second Donald Trump presidency be.’
So not quite what I said above but still the same sort of implications, especially as it followed a monologue around Trump tariffs.

Truely pathetic journalism.
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November 5, 2024 9:30am
- RoboRob
  
  Not sure why this isn’t tied to my original post re Playshool TV. It was supposed to be 🙂
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:50am
Jack5

Great win for New Zealand free speech in the Paul Burns case.

Well done Free Speech Union!

https://www.fsu.nz/police_withdraw_charges_after_arrest_for_engaging_in_debate_a_huge_victory_for_free_speech
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November 5, 2024 10:17am
- kowtow
  
  A victory of sorts but very instructive and frightening.
  
  Where’s the common sense from the police . Looks like after the arrest they ‘double downed’ and tried to up the charges .
  
  And where’s the outrage from te meedia paahti who seem to want to take the police to task over anti gangster /organised crime operations but then they’re happy to give cover to the Cops for this nonsense .
  
  So the media are pro gang and anti free speech , which is very odd indeed.
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:26am

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