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November 5, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 05 November 2024

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General Debate

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peterwn

So derelect Dixon Street flats are in the news again as KO (ex Government Housing Corporation) try and evict the last tenants. They have Grade 1 Heritage Protection so cannot be demolished. Seems to me that what to do with with the building has been sitting in someone’s ‘too hard’ basket for years (you cannot be sacked for sitting on your hands). Presumably someone has figured that it is more economic to bowl the building and start over which runs against the heritage protection so the situation is deadlocked.
Possibly counting against retention would be the need for significant earthquake strengthening and the need for serious fire protection and other works to being the building up to modern standard which would be triggered by seeking a building permit for earthquake strengthening. Presumably this potentially requires serious expenditure possibly greater than the cost of a new building.
This raises the point of whether the owner (KO) should be lumbered with serious expenditure because the building was heritage protection. The responsible Minister could promote special legislation to remove heritage protection but then all hell could break loose.
Something is broken and there seems to be no fix in sight.
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November 5, 2024 8:01am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  They should rewrite the legislation so that the economic cost of keeping the building is balanced against the heritage value. Should not be difficult and would only upset a small number of people.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:46am
  - RoboRob
    
    Agreed. They should also tighten the conditions for when a building can become heritage listed. Perhaps a way to move a structure out of heritage status?
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:14am
  - Matt Long
    
    Give the Heritage Foundation charity status and let them fundraise to purchase at market value properties they consider to be of value.
    Then watch the properties turn derelict and collapse or burn down.
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:14am
    - Mike
      
      Heritage NZ (formerly the Historic Places Trust) is a Crown entity, but you can join as a member or donate to its work.
      Thank you in advance for supporting this important work.
      
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      November 5, 2024 9:54am
      - Don Beckett
        
        It’s an eyesore. What’s so “Heritage” about it – because it’s old ? or one of the first apartment buildings ?
        Bulldoze it & build something modern & functional – at this rate it’s going to rot & fall over.
        
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        November 5, 2024 10:18am
      - Local Miller
        
        Important work my left foot. My sister and my son both own houses that have heritage status. When my sister upgrade her house they got a massive $1000 contribution towards maintaining the character of the house which was essentially a dump when they bought it. My sisters place was a 1910/14 “kit set house” in Devonport that no one except them and Heritage NZ had the slightest interest in.
        Similarly, my son’s house is from this era, and it too was a dump when his partner bought it. My son has now bought into the house. As a builder he can upgrade it fairly cost effectively as they’ll do the work in their own time. The reality is that except for its age (1914) it has no historical relevance. No famous person lived there and no historical family wants the place.
        I don’t have an issue with some places being given historical status, but it has to make sense and incorporate a lot more than just “it’s old”. As an example Edmond Hillary’s old family home may have significant historical value, but some 100 year old place around the corner doesn’t.
        
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        November 5, 2024 10:20am
      - Prince
        
        Clearly their ‘important work’ doesn’t extend to paying for the upkeep of the places they deem ‘historic’. As usual, easy to spend other people’s money.
        
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        November 5, 2024 11:26am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Another ever-growing make-work scheme for lefty bureaucrats then?
        
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        November 5, 2024 1:16pm
      - peterwn
        
        There was an old brick church hall behind St Johns Cathedral in Napier which somehow survived the 1931 earthquake. The old Cathedral was destroyed by the earthquake.When I saw it there were large cracks in the brickwork but somehow it survived until the 1980’s. It of course pre-dated the Art Deco rebuilds so there was nothing particularly historic about it. Because of heightened concerns about earthquakes the Dean (who I knew well) had to close the building and the only real option was demolition. Then some busybody went to the (then) Historic Places Trust who wanted to slap a heritage designation on it which the Parish successfully resisted and it was demolished. This signaled that the Trust would designate a building at the drop of a hat regardless of circumstances. I did not renew my Trust annual membership.
        
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        November 5, 2024 3:14pm
- RoboRob
  
  The Govt needs to suck it up and follow the (stupid) rules it has set for pivate owners. If this situation highlights the issues to the govt pehaps they should be kind enough to fix the heritage buildings system.
  
  Its the same as RMA stuff. Dont put special laws to allow special projects to pass and leave a crappy system for all the unlucky ‘non special’ projects. Luckily the govt seems to be well on the way to dealing with the RMA. Something previous govts, in particular Labour, have struggled to do.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:12am
  - Colville
    
    Luckily the govt seems to be well on the way to dealing with the RMA
    
    Do you know something that I dont? I was told on Friday (by a Wellington insider) that RMA reform will be at least 2 years and past the next election.
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:37am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I thought they said RMA reform would be introduced to the house either before Christmas or shortly after. Who in Wellington are you talking too? Not a pen pusher I hope, they will hate progress
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:13am
    - RoboRob
      
      Nooooooooo. I thought it was coming next year!
      
      Please National, dont try and use RMA reform as an election cote catcher, like English did with tax cuts (and then lost).
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:13am
      - Ghost
        
        There will be 3 RMA bills, the first passed it’d third reading last month
        
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        November 5, 2024 10:27am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        They have made it pretty clear RMA will be gone soon
        
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        November 5, 2024 10:27am
      - Quail
        
        G G from Dunedin.
        No the RMA will not be gone soon, or probably ever.There will be some changes for the built environment but next to none for the natural environment.
        Councils are continuing to ramp up regulation and controls on private rural land, It is business as usual for the multi million dollar Environment industry.
        
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        November 5, 2024 11:36am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Off topic but what happens if Trump and Harris tie on the Electoral College votes with 269 each?
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:18am
  - Colville
    
    10 minutes each way for golden point then count back to see who scored the most tries?
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:39am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Each state delegation (not each representative) gets one vote in the House. There are more red states so Trump would win. However that relies on every electoral college voter continuing to vote for the party that picked them.
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:41am
  - RoboRob
    
    According to CNN
    
    ‘ If there’s a 269-269 tie, or if a third party or independent candidate wins electoral votes and keeps a candidate from reaching an Electoral College majority of 270, the next step is the same. It’s called a “contingent election.”
    
    According to the 12th Amendment, enacted in the wake of that divisive 1800 election, if no candidate gets a majority of the Electoral College votes, the new Congress, which would have just been sworn in on January 3, chooses the president. The Senate would choose the vice president. ‘
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:48am
- Warren Murray
  
  Private owners have been known to just let the buildings fall into such disrepair that they have to be demolished for being a risk to public safety. Perhaps KO is applying this strategy?
  
  It raises an interesting question of whether a Grade 1 Heritage Order trumps the Council’s Earthquake Prone Building policy or a red sticker after the next major shake.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:36am
- Local Miller
  
  Including a relevant link would be appreciated.
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:06am
- PurplePen
  
  Judging by the cost of earthquake strengthening the Wgtn central library, it would be cheaper to bowl the flats and if you want build a replica.
  
  BTW, the Wgtn library cost is currently sitting at $189M. And it is and always has been a but ugly building. Compare this with the Chch library, cost to build was $92M and it’s a gorgeous building to boot. I’d emailed a few councillors a few years back and said if you want to keep the old library, pull it down and build a replica as it would be a lot cheaper.
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:18am
- MCōs
  
  I went to Salisbury in 1988 and rented a pushbike to go and see Stonehenge about ten miles away
  Place was a huge disappointment too, but some people see some value in the place
  By contrast to get there I passed through some dinky die villages with thatched roofed cottages and pubs near meandering brooks and old stone churches
  People like me stop and have a beer and think how marvelous it must be to live in such idyllic surroundings
  People who live there pray for the day they can get the fuck out of there
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:45am
- slightlyrighty
  
  If only we hadn’t spent 350 million on an Old Town Hall!
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:48am
- 2ic
  
  The Wellington City Council have given heritage protection to a brick wall, so what hope is there of removing it from an actual building?
  
  https://wellingtoncityheritage.org.nz/buildings/objects/54-tasman-st-brick-wall
  
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  November 5, 2024 1:23pm
artemisia

Upset folk in Opotiki getting a lot of airtime about police raids, in the Herald today. Opotiki Mongrel Mob raids: Kuia says she was strip-searched, mothers tell how kids ‘traumatised’ by armed police

Herald reporting people are traumatised by police raids, and suffering long lasting effects including seeing family members arrested and removed from the home. 15 Opotiki homes were raided, and 22 of those charged were from the town.

Doubt many New Zealanders will be too bothered about ‘traumatised’ adults who are keeping children in households harbouring alleged criminals and drug dealers. One household with children alleged to have been raided 4 times in the last year, might have been a hint, and still there are are littlies living there. Maybe those adults could have considered the impact on the children of living with (alleged) criminals and drug dealers, and the potential positive impact on children seeing the justice system at work. And maybe they should be thankful if at least some of those charged are likely to be removed from the community for decent stretches.

Would have been quite nice to see the Herald include details of harm caused to families, including children by drug use in and from Opotiki.

Of course there is also the possibility none of the 22 charged will be convicted and the police will be found to have overreached, so there’s that.
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November 5, 2024 8:02am
- Cassandra
  
  I think your last sentence is unlikely. Police all over eastern BoP yesterday when we drove through. We saw 20 police cars.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:29am
  - artemisia
    
    Agree, but you know, innocent until …
    
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    November 5, 2024 8:40am
    - Colville
      
      Innocent until you put a gang patch on your back?
      
      Then you are fair game.
      
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      November 5, 2024 9:06am
- Simon
  
  “Would have been quite nice to see the Herald include details of harm caused to families”
  
  LMAO. What??
  
  Headline news about gang arrests is fake news. The gang members have all been arrested dozens of times before and nothing happens to them. Gangs are protected by the police and the state and actively promoted by MSM. Massively funded by the welfare state. Next time you see a gang member he is nothing but a ward of the state. Gang patches more like I heart the govt.
  
  The recent Opotiki arrests, wonder if they have been pushed by the Police minister for some quick headlines for the cattle. Nothing will happen to the arrested. They will be fine. MSM will use the arrests to promote the gangs instead.
  
  Lol – victims of gang crime.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:32am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Bradbury’s ranting again about it over on TDB
  
  “BREAKING: EXPLOSIVE POST CABINET LUXON – Police left baby alone in Ōpōtiki raids
  All National are doing is radicalising people with heavy handed police tactics that will see Police stations getting firebombed. “
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:38am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Ahhh Bomber, shrieking as always and laying a dog whistle for attacks on Police Stations.
    
    What an absolute bellend of a pundit…
    
    And as an aside if a Police Station is attack in the next week, can Bradbury be charged for incitement??
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:22am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Bradbury will see the upping of gang arrests will be very popular, he knows his lot failed on most things, but success will win the government a second term. This is success I would have thought
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:32am
- Mark Hanley
  
  Excellent observation and another blatant example of the left wing media bias.
  
  I’m sick of headlines like “Luxon defends”. So what if Luxon called taxpayers customers. I’d love the rest of government to refer to me as a customer and treat me as such. Competing for my money by providing better quality goods and services at lower prices (which they are doing under Luxon).
  
  And the constant gotcha attempts by dim witted journalists, effortlessly batted away by Luxon, is getting a tad boring. So what if he sold his apartment (in the current property market trough) when he moved into premier house, he won’t continue in parliament as an MP so he has no need for the apartment.
  
  I predicted Luxon will be our most successful PM. The corporate management tools he is using to get results are working at unprecedented speed.
  
  My only disappointments are
  – Adern isn’t being held to account for her corruption,
  – the covid response report hasn’t been completed with suggested consequences for law breakers,
  – Seymours excellent treaty principals bill isn’t being supported beyond first reading…. yet.
  
  I’d also like to see measures implemented to prevent Kieran McAnulty following his Predecessors examples by wrecking our society and economy for his own personal enrichment (see my holding adern to account comment above),
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:46am
  - pdm
    
    `Competing for my money by providing better quality goods and services at lower prices (which they are doing under Luxon).`’
    
    Under Luxon?
    
    Not so sure about that – more driven by David Seymour, Brooke van Velden and ACT.
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:00am
  - Grunter
    
    I hate it when Luxon calls us Taxpayers “Customers”.
    
    Customers enter into voluntary transactions. As a Taxpayer, I have to sit and watch as the Govt steals my money and wastes it on mostly crap. If I resist I get put in jail.
    
    So, Nah, don’t call me a customer….that’s just slimy slippery corporate-speak.
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:08am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He did it once, any evidence he is regularly saying this, he pulled his comment saying he said that because of his commercial speak, and said he will try and never say that again
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:36am
    - ISeeRed
      
      I waver between “tax slave” and “tax livestock”.
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:52am
    - Interested Party
      
      If you listen to the full comment, he said something like. “I’ve always had the belief that you give your customers, the people, the voters, what they asked for” Is that more palatable now you have the full story
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:54am
    - PurplePen
      
      He said “customers, taxpayers and voters”.
      
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      November 5, 2024 12:08pm
- KH
  
  It’s clearly harassment of the gangs by police. What a good thing that is. Congratulations to our boys and girls in blue.
  Keep it up.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:11am
- sirknz
  
  What happened to all the ‘by Maori, for Maori’ rhetoric they bang on about in looking after these ‘traumatised’ kids and making sure that the ‘traumatised’ kids aren’t being raised by shit tier people?
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:14am
  - PurplePen
    
    And with the Maori economy worth billions not to mention the govt money that gets poured into all sorts of Maori run quangos, there’s nothing stopping Maori implementing by Maori for Maori and a well-funded by Maori for Maori when they want. Why do they need to wait for whitey to initiate anything for themselves.
    
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    November 5, 2024 12:10pm
- David Garrett
  
  art: Perhaps someone with better knowledge of matters Maori than me can answer…Does a Maori woman of a certain age automatically become a “kuia” (the male equivalent of a kaumatua) or does one have to earn that designation?
  
  I suspect it is the former, which means the “kuia” referred to in the story might be a 50 year old gang moll who is just a guilty as her male peers.
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:05am
  - Colville
    
    I believe kuia is a old female relative, a koro is a old male relative, a kaumatua is someone old and wise so its a term of respect.
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:38am
    - PurplePen
      
      kuia = proverbial auntee.
      
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      November 5, 2024 12:11pm
Simon

NZ economy still in trouble in 2025. Key used China to bail out NZ 2011 onward. But that China aspect looks to be closed off due to govt ending all the dirty money.

China itself is in bit of problem with its housing market and debt. Also the signal well & truly out that China vs GAE coldish war underway. The neolib wet dreams for China are over. China looked at the garbage running the West (except Trump of course but he was disposed in the fake 2020 election) and said no thanks to the shitlibs.

China is an important indicator for NZ economy. NZ’s move towards India hasnt panned out. Not sure of the story there. A lot of Indians here but no formal arrangement with India??. But overall China is on the outter and not good for NZ economy.
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November 5, 2024 8:15am
- Paulus
  
  Have heard that any formal agreement with India will depend upon our taking many more Indian immigrants first.
  It will happen, but slowly, as eve now but they appear to be the largest Immigrant numbers currently!
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:50am
- Grunter
  
  Yes to all of that. Then add in;
  1. The EU is failing as its last industrial powerhouse, Germany, crumbles under green energy BS, a lack of cheap Russian gas, and is drowned by immigrants. The rest of the EU failed many years ago and is currently propped up by Germany.
  2. The UK is a debt-ridden mess and about to endure 5 years of Starmer.
  3. Japan has no runway left to maneuver, massive debt that can only be defaulted on, and an old-age demographic problem with no solution.
  
  When ’empires’ are snookered like this, there is only one last scenario unfortunately…..
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:07am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Europe is in trouble. But what of Russia?
    
    In demographic decline, being bleed in Ukraine while the CCP eyes up its Far East provinces which where formerly China’s….
    
    The only winner in Europe is Xi and his evil philosophy. Thankfully China is in economic trouble as well so he may overreach and get completely smashed by a US resurgent under Trump
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:25am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I heard them talking about China the other day, they have grown above their break even which I think is 5% for the first time in 3 years, I know they are becoming far more active in wool as their consumers are starting to spend again
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:38am
  - BananaLlama
    
    I think coarse wool is dead mate i wish it wasn’t but i am running Wiltshire X this year and wont be looking back.
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:33am
    - Colville
      
      What is wool (non merino) used for these days ?
      
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      November 5, 2024 11:40am
      - BananaLlama
        
        First shear from Lambs is mixed with Merino to make clothing while the other coarse wool is mixed with synthetics to make carpets and furniture. China buys the overwhelming majority of our wool to blend with their synthetics followed by Europe and then India lagging way behind for their size.
        
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        November 5, 2024 11:55am
      - Colville
        
        Thanks Banana.
        
        I consider sheep to be pests that eat the grass that feral deer should have rights to! 🙂
        
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        November 5, 2024 1:21pm
    - Geri Sjovik
      
      For the self-shedding?
      
      What are you crossing with?
      
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      November 5, 2024 11:53am
      - BananaLlama
        
        Keep in mind that i am small land holder and don’t own thousands of hectares so i can afford to make mistakes that the more serious farmers can’t afford.
        
        https://www.massey.ac.nz/about/news/grading-up-to-a-wiltshire-flock-of-shedding-sheep/
        
        https://mro.massey.ac.nz/server/api/core/bitstreams/8f88eda6-37ff-4786-92da-434cf87cd6ca/content
        
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        November 5, 2024 12:07pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

[Mod – you’ve been asked to stop doing this. You posted this last night, that’s it, post once and post correctly, don’t try to get around DPF’s instructions to you about this]
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November 5, 2024 8:15am
- Yvette
  
  The Maori hikoi is imminent, where is Julian Batchelor?
  
  The US Indigenous Tribal Leaders’ Symposium was held at Parliament in October.
  Māori economy is growing fast, but Aotearoa can learn from US tribal leaders, says expert
  
  Opinion – Māori economy is growing significantly faster than the overall economy. It is currently worth around $70 billion and is projected to be worth over $100b by 2030. This is an expression of Māori economic sovereignty.
  
  What we have learned from our experiences with our indigenous brothers and sisters is that we have made a difference and continue to make a difference and with the right support can continue to make a bigger difference without threatening the sovereignty of any others in the same country.
  
  Seeing is believing. The people of Indian country in the US are leading the way, in a way that causes no harm to others. Can we do it here in Aotearoa? Yes we can, if we allow the Māori sovereign nation, recognised in the 1835 Declaration of Independence, to continue to evolve, innovate and execute economic strategies that lift the well-being of their people and therefore the well-being of all.
  
  It’s a tired statement but “what is good for Māori, is good for everyone”. Are we really too afraid to allow Māori to thrive so that we can all thrive too?
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/532815/maori-economy-is-growing-fast-but-aotearoa-can-learn-from-us-tribal-leaders-says-expert
  
  I have visited these tribal nations where the constitution of the US recognises their sovereignty alongside the sovereignty of the Federal and State systems. Yes, their constitution recognises them as sovereign, and yes, they are ahead of us here in Aotearoa.
  – Nigel Chee, of Waikato, Ngāti Haua and Ngāti Tūwharetoa descent
  
  Why was there no initiation of any reasoned debate when the late Maori King and ACT’s Leader were both present at Waitangi?
  Why did one, or both, so seemingly studiously avoid such an obvious “conversation”
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:21am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Don’t know where Julian is atm. I’m sure he knows of this hikoi, and may even do a post on it. These days the posts are coming every 4 to 10 days, not everyday as in the past.
    The 1835 Declaration of Independence was superseded by the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840 when New Zealand became a British Colony.
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:10am
    - kowtow
      
      steve
      
      ToW did not make NZ a colony .
      That came later with royal charter/letters patent .
      
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      November 5, 2024 3:42pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        OK. Became part of the British Colony of New South Wales.
        Bear in mind the Google Machine has been scrubbed and is very corrupt.
        This is why it is all very hard to wade through – corruption published as truth.
        
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        November 5, 2024 5:21pm
  - Countrygirl
    
    The Maori economy is now large enough to shoulder a lot more of the costs we whites are currently paying for on their behalf. For instance, health costs, benefits, prison costs, property rates, justice costs, taxes. Oh the list is endless and I am looking forward to some relief.
    
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    November 5, 2024 12:48pm
    - Colville
      
      You think a racially segregated society is a good idea?
      
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      November 5, 2024 2:04pm
      - Keith White
        
        We are already racially segregated. We did not want to be but Palmer & Co. legislated for it.
        
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        November 5, 2024 3:14pm
      - Jack5
        
        Does anyone spell out how they reach the figures of Maori economy (or of stadium X or industry Y ) will be worth ZZZZ billions?
        
        A large proportion of Maori assets is “Maori freehold” land, which in normal capitalism cannot be used as security of borrowing and growth. This is because Maori freehold is “inalienable” – can’t be sold to cover default.
        
        What dollar values do unsaleable assets have?
        
        A decade or two ago, flaky reporters were sometimes accused of interviewing their typewriters.
        
        Billion-dollar project or industry hypesters rarely interview hand calculators or spreadsheets.
        
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        November 5, 2024 5:00pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      There will be no relief of costs the Net Taxpayer forks out for until the Waitangi Tribunal is wound down and abolished.
      
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      November 5, 2024 5:24pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I purposely did not post the Youtube link last night.
  
  [Mod – purposely being the keyword. Follow what DPF has said you can do and stop trying to bypass that]
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:59am
- Ra Henare
  
  Well done!
  Steve has been skirting the rules for a long time.
  Glad he has finally been held to account.
  
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  November 5, 2024 2:12pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Would it be possible to know what the actual issue was with Steve’s posts? Were they defamatory? Illegal?
    
    Held to account? Gosh! Sounds like a crime scenario. What was the crime? Just wondering as his posts were no skin off my nose at all.
    
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    November 5, 2024 2:40pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Some in the past were repetitive, such as a post I received from 6.30pm onwards I reposted the next morning. Then my replies to commenters here who make mistakes about which Treaty.
      That is all I will say atm.
      
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      November 5, 2024 5:28pm
BarryB

The series win by the NZ cricket team in India is so unusual and so unexpected and so rare that I have a suspicion.
India is the centre of sport gambling, and it would not surprise me if the series win was a setup. I wonder what the odds were before the first game, but the Black Caps had an awful lead-up to the series losing games all over the place and then miracle of miracles – a series win in the most unlikely place in the world.
Yes – a nice bit of data for the record book – but I am sure there are some very well boosted bank balances in India and around the world especially S.America where these things (betting by sports team members) seem to happen
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November 5, 2024 8:16am
- amospicton
  
  I think it’s unlikely with India these days – the players simply don’t need to boost their incomes this way. The worst underperformers were those least in need of the additional cash. Which means it’s all the more remarkable. Possibly the most unlikely sporting result since……Japan beat the Boks, Leicester won the premier League and Tonga beat the Wallabies.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:49am
  - Mike
    
    Yes. It’s much more likely to see match fixing in the lower profile T20 or T10 leagues.
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:05am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Sorry BB, but that’s just drivel. And you are sure. Laughable.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:36am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  One test yes, but I don’t think 3 tests
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:57am
- Jethrod
  
  So on the 22nd of Nov they play Aus in Perth, can we see a miraculous turnaround by India then?
  
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  November 5, 2024 1:35pm
nygr

The influence of the mongrel mob is so entrenched in small town New Zealand because of the generational existence of gangs. The gangsters from the 70s and 80s are now kaumatua on the marae. So not only are they running the gangs with their drug dealing and other crimes, they are running the marae. And enjoying the benefits of the marae with their tax free status and charitable/ govt donations.
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November 5, 2024 8:17am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Do you understand the Electoral College?

Video 5 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-qZr5SPBXw
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November 5, 2024 8:17am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Do the majority of voters understand MMP including overhang?
  
  26 6
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  November 5, 2024 8:25am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The majority don’t even know what the tail wagging the dog is.
    
    13 7
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    November 5, 2024 8:31am
  - AitchW
    
    Chuck, no. Despite millions of tax dollars spent on public education many, many voters have no clue about how MMP works, and even fewer understand the overhang.
    The number of people I have spoken to who think that the candidate vote decides the government is quite depressing.
    I would suggest that this needs to be taught in school from an early age, however it appears that between teacher only days, study leave, Covid, and rampant absenteeism, kids are never in class!
    
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    November 5, 2024 8:41am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “I would suggest that this needs to be taught in school…”
      
      I don’t really get it. You could learn all you need to know by reading the Wikipedia entry on MMP.
      
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      November 5, 2024 9:26am
      - Taieri
        
        You could learn all you need to know by reading
        ————-
        
        You are assuming that an ability to read with comprehension exists and is widespread among the “ākonga” attending today’s NZ schools. This, unfortunately can’t be taken for granted as indicated in the article linked below.
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/108649545/students-dont-know-what-trivial-means–what-about-these-words
        
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        November 5, 2024 9:40am
      - AitchW
        
        Benedict, yes you could. But there are a lot of people who really don’t care and certainly won’t bother to look at Wikipedia.
        And most of those people have kids, many of whom who will be equally happy in their ignorance.
        
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        November 5, 2024 9:47am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Much better if a teacher tells the kids what their idea of MMP means.//
        
        4 5
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        November 5, 2024 10:05am
      - Burtland
        
        a Tik Tok video with AI cat cartoons and free KFC vouchers might work
        
        7 1
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        November 5, 2024 10:15am
  - Debsta
    
    Yeah, the tyranny of low information voters, aided and abetted by a failing fourth estate = the Achilles heel of democracy.
    
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    November 5, 2024 8:58am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    TPM at 4 % would see 3 less seats, it’s almost good they may get 4% and take three seats away from the left, thing also is the support will come from Labour keeping them well away from 30 plus %
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:59am
- David Garrett
  
  Steve O: Yes, all very interesting…but the statement that “pure democracies don’t last; they all implode” as a reason for the electoral college is obviously nonsense.
  
  Britain – the mother of parliaments – has had “pure democracy for a couple of hundred years, and is yet to “implode”. Similarly our fair land, Australia, Canada, India…
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:01am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Partly democratic while have the racist Maori seats.
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:11am
  - Colville
    
    DG.
    Starmer is trying hard to light the fuse for that implosion.
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:43am
  - MCōs
    
    Inasmuch as all the democratic systems have their flaws there is no such thing as pure democracy
    The parliamentary systems we have in NZ and the UK, Oz etc foistered on the country a PM who would never win a popular vote
    In America the republicans have only won the popular vote for the president once since 1988.
    Here in NZ we are currently experiencing the downside of MMP with two minor parties appointing politically weak, inexperienced ministers to cabinet with an inexperienced politician as PM seemingly struggling for control
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:57am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Hmm, dunno about that David. It forces Presidential candidates to appeal to a wide variety of people across the country, particularly not just in the big cities.
    Though the creation of the college to be fair, was a bit of a sop to the Southern states since their population was made up of a decent chunk of slaves, 40% or so. And back then, there were no political parties. It was more of a work around as they couldn’t find another solution that everyone would agree on.
    
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    November 5, 2024 12:20pm
    - Mike
      
      The revered founding fathers envisaged future constitutional conventions. This might have avoided the ludicrous spectacle of ‘originalist’ judges reimagining 18th century political thought to suit present-day prejudices.
      
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      November 5, 2024 1:58pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        The founding principles are confounding to Marxist idiots. Hence why they thrash about violently trying to kill those principles .
        
        6 2
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        November 5, 2024 2:43pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    A couple of hundred years is just a blip in the history of mankind.
    
    Autocracy and Tribalism as opposed to Democracy go back thousands of years?
    
    “”Britain – the mother of parliaments – has had “pure democracy””
    
    Hate to disagree with you but think you will find Britain is NOT a pure democracy.
    
    Pure democracy, also referred to as direct democracy, is a form of government where power is exercised directly by the people, rather than through elected representatives. In this system, citizens make decisions and enact laws through direct voting, eliminating the need for intermediaries.
    
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    November 5, 2024 2:20pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Maybe like Switzerland
      
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      November 5, 2024 3:06pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    DG, it stops two large Democrat States (California and New York) ruling the roost and no other States get a chance.
    I do admit that I do not fully understand the Electoral College, but there are many parts of the MMP skullduggery that I don’t get.
    
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    November 5, 2024 5:57pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    When did Britain EVER have a “pure democracy” ?
    The House of Lords has been there since the beginning.
    There was also that rather nasty business under Cromwell, that was an implosion of the parliament.
    
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    November 5, 2024 7:40pm
- Handyman
  
  In the 2016 election there was a concerted effort by Clinton to “turn” electors who travelled to Washington for the official electoral college vote.
  She wanted Democrat controlled states (whose voters unexpectedly chose Trump) to reselect the actual people to vote in the electoral college.
  The chosen electors are not required by law to vote according to their instructions, so the choice of people to become electors is crucial.
  Apparently she was doing this to “save democracy”.
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:08am
- Jethrod
  
  A very explicit explanation on TV3 news last n8ght also.
  
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  November 5, 2024 1:38pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Who watches TV3 news?????
    
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    November 5, 2024 2:22pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Mike McRoberts
      
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      November 5, 2024 4:15pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Did Covid spread faster amongst those in forced quarantine (managed isolation) hotels or amongst those attending Destiny Church services?

On 18 September 2020, a person in the community tested positive for COVID-19 who had
recently returned to New Zealand but had already completed 14 days managed isolation and
returned two negative COVID-19 tests

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/2022-05/20201797_briefing.pdf

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/532749/brian-tamaki-faces-trial-over-alleged-covid-19-rule-breaches
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November 5, 2024 8:23am
- Mike
  
  Probably. Did infection spread faster in the community from MIQ or from illicit gatherings of anti-vaxxers?
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:42am
  - Matt Long
    
    Covid infection was spread by those who took the vaccine and then mingled together largely unrestricted, because as we know the vaccine did not prevent transmission and was not even tested for preventing transmission.
    
    30 3
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    November 5, 2024 9:23am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes that is true. That is why the vaccine passes were madness.
      
      Having said that, most New Zealanders only got their two shots to get their vaccine pass. The vaccine does seem to provide some protection from contracting the virus for four to six months. So if you were to get a booster every six months you would significantly reduce your chances of contracting covid.
      
      BTW there is only one reason that I get a booster every six months. A common effect of severe covid disease is coagulating of the blood. Due to a medical condition that could prove fatal.
      
      https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8782553/
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:33am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        I had Covid once, I have been around several people who had it a second time and have. It got it a second time that I know of, I still think some people’s natural immunity is key, but clearly some have had it up to 4 times. It’s a tricky virus you know
        
        6 1
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        November 5, 2024 11:03am
      - PurplePen
        
        Clearly our dear Wellington Mayor doesn’t bother with the boosters as she seems to get COVID quite frequently.
        
        5 1
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        November 5, 2024 12:18pm
      - Jethrod
        
        I think it depends on the extent of the hangover.
        
        6 3
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        November 5, 2024 1:40pm
- kowtow
  
  Te Media Paahti giving plenty of coverage to this .
  
  Not so much to how the Dept of Education side stepped the scamdemic vax mandates.
  
  Now that’s a Bigly story.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:44am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    What is a “scamdemic”? You think it was imaginary?
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:34am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Nope, but the bullshit about it killing everyone like the black plague was a scam
      
      13 4
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      November 5, 2024 11:03am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Thanks for that informative comment.
        
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        November 5, 2024 3:09pm
    - kowtow
      
      It was hyped out of all proportion to its actual dangers.
      By the media , govts , ngo’s , bed wetters and pearl clutchers .
      
      And their reaction to it was out of all proportion to , well just about anything .
      
      We were scammed .
      
      There was a plan , they didn’t stick to it , except Sweden , who’ve come through economically at least in better shape than just about everyone else.
      
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      November 5, 2024 12:41pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “It was hyped out of all proportion to its actual dangers.”
        
        What were the actual dangers?
        
        In the USA alone 1.2 million people died.
        
        https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
        
        Can you be more precise?
        
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        November 5, 2024 3:12pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Italy looked pretty interesting at the start too
        
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        November 5, 2024 6:13pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      “What is a “scamdemic”?”
      
      An international economy-wrecking panic reaction over something in the ballpark of a very bad flu season.
      
      7 2
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      November 5, 2024 2:55pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      And before someone claims that the mortality rate for COVID was just like a seasonal flu, no it was not. COVID had higher rates of serious illness and mortality than any flu season. That was true in 2020 and it is still true.
      
      https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4677
      
      “Among people admitted to hospital, compared with seasonal influenza, covid-19 was associated with increased risk of extrapulmonary organ dysfunction, death, and increased health resource use.”
      
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      November 5, 2024 3:08pm
imalwaysright

Last week Michael Laws said his secondary school age son sent a prank complaint to Internal Affairs citing some fellow Fijian students as “FOB”, fresh off the boat.
Internal Affairs complained to the police who then contacted Laws.
Here are the police guidelines of their policy about something that isn’t illegal but they don’t like.
https://www.police.govt.nz/advice-services/advice-victims/hate-motivated-crime?nondesktop
Whether or not the police make contact, complaints such as this regardless of proof, go on a persons police file.
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November 5, 2024 8:25am
Cassandra

Civil war in socialist lala-land: Tim Selwyn (an associate of Martyn Bradbury) commenting on a Chris Trotter article: “Paranoid, accusatory, hysterical – and they were the best parts. The demon of gin and across-the-counter pseudoephedrine appears to have claimed another Trotter column.”
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November 5, 2024 8:27am
- Swifty
  
  Trotter is far more sober in his writing than Selwyn will ever be.
  
  (PS – why do lefties always play the man and not the ball?)
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:42am
  - Yvette
    
    Swifty – (PS – why do lefties always play the man and not the ball?)
    
    Is not Chris Trotter a former Lefty who left the Left? Right?
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:38am
    - NothingLeft
      
      he’s still a leftie, but hasn’t imbibed all the woke nonsense
      
      7 2
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      November 5, 2024 10:30am
      - Yvette
        
        NothingLeft – so nothing left?
        
        (bugger, someone had to do that – but why me? :o)
        
        1 0
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        November 5, 2024 10:38am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Quick – March. 🙂
      
      1 1
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      November 5, 2024 10:35am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He told everyone to vote for Peter’s, I suggest he moved to the centre
      
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      November 5, 2024 11:05am
      - Mike
        
        That’s a move to an obscure cult, not a political position.
        
        2 4
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        November 5, 2024 2:01pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    “PS – why do lefties always play the man and not the ball?”
    
    Because their arguments are almost always flaky and fall apart with rigorous scrutiny.
    
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    November 5, 2024 3:00pm
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Tim Selwyn has prior form
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Selwyn
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:52am
  - pdm
    
    kk – no need to read past the first sentence which references Selwyn’s sedition charge in 2006.
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:12am
  - cas
    
    He certainly doesn’t like his own tribe.
    
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2024/05/28/the-whakatohea-treaty-settlement-legislation-is-an-unconscionable-injustice/
    
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    November 5, 2024 1:50pm
- David George
  
  Do you have a link to the Chris Trotter essay, Cass?
  
  [Mod – here’s the article. Are we the baddies]
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:40am
Bridgenag

Massive Korean Study Confirms Elevated Risk of Heart Disease Among Young People

Official Govt figures BY

“Firstly “Staggering New Data From Health New Zealand and Others” reported official Health NZ data obtained via an OIA, documenting a massive increase in admissions to A&E among individuals under 40, rising from 2,000 per year to over 20,000 per year.

Secondly “Breaking: 188% Rise in Mortality Risk Among New Zealand Teens Following Covid-19 Vaccination” reported official Health NZ data released under OIA showing that teens and people in their twenties had a disproportionately elevated risk of death in the 90 days following a Covid vaccination.”

https://hatchardreport.com/korean-study-confirms-elevated-risk-of-heart-disease/
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November 5, 2024 8:31am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Guy Hatchard is one of the world’s biggest con artists. Why do you continually rely on his website?
  
  Do you have peer reviewed large a scale data that shows that the risk of cardiac death from covid vaccines is higher than the risk of cardiac death from severe covid?
  
  I’m not going to engage in antivaxxer madness. Yes I get it. You think that the covid vaccines are killing everyone. Nothing will change your view. Just like the moon landing conspiracy theorists add Jehovas witnesses who won’t have blood transfusions.
  
  Millions of people would be alive today if they had been vaccinated.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:41am
  - newview
    
    Love your simple logic and sanity Ben
    
    5 6
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    November 5, 2024 11:03am
    - Bridgenag
      
      As Mark Twain said “No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot”
      
      7 3
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      November 5, 2024 12:31pm
      - Mike
        
        Surely you aren’t old enough to have been spoken about by Mark Twain.
        
        1 6
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        November 5, 2024 2:02pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        And….
        
        “There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.”
        ― George Orwell
        
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        November 5, 2024 2:45pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    “Guy Hatchard is one of the world’s biggest con artists.”-Benedict Yu.
    
    I wasn’t aware of that. How is he not in jail?
    
    5 3
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    November 5, 2024 12:07pm
  - wsk12345
    
    So official data from our own health dept isnt good enough for you?
    
    Unsurprising.
    
    4 1
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    November 5, 2024 2:11pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Peer review can easily be gamed. Especially in politically captured echo chambers (which are now widespread across the institutions). In the climate realm it has been, in spades. The real deal is does the alleged data hold up to testing.
    
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    November 5, 2024 2:49pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Good post Brid, he makes a good point about chest complaints increasing immediately following the introduction of the jab and well before the widespread cases of the cold.
  
  As an aside, Michael Baker, epidemiologist and now, it would seem, medical doctor, since he has taken to giving medical advice, last week told the country to get boosters and also told pregnant women that getting the booster will “improve pregnancy outcomes”!
  He is a dangerous man.
  
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  November 5, 2024 2:51pm
NK

Bet of the day in the “race that stops the nation”: Okita Soushi, top 4. Paying $3.40.
7 0
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November 5, 2024 8:34am
- Mike
  
  Thanks for the tip. Each way doubled my modest investment.
  
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  November 5, 2024 5:30pm
Grunter

Anyone listen to the [Mod – use his name] Boris Johnson on Hosking this morning? He was explaining that Ukraine “Will win!” but forgot to explain how (and Hosking never asked the obvious question).

Meanwhile, in the real world, the slaughter continues. Russia heads westwards each day as the Ukraine front line starts collapsing.

And hardliner Medvedev stated a few days ago:

“If we are talking about the existence of our state, as the president of our country has repeatedly said, your humble servant has said, others have said, of course, we simply will not have any choice,” he said, per Sky News and The Sun, adding that the US and the West are “wrong” if they think Putin won’t turn to nuclear weapons if NATO sought to inflict a defeat on Russia in the Ukraine war.

“If the new [US] leader is going to be fiercely dedicated to adding fuel to the fire of the Russia-Ukraine conflict, it will be a very bad choice,” adding “Because this is the road to hell.”

“It’s really a road to World War Three,” he continued. “Whoever decides to continue the war will be making a very dangerous mistake.”

Sabre rattling bluff…..? If NATO attacks Russia, what other option does Russia have?
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November 5, 2024 8:34am
- Local Miller
  
  And Russia is doing so well in this war they started, that they have had to bring in between 10,000 and 15,000 North Korean special forces to help.
  Untested in battle, and with a language barrier to overcome with not enough interpreters, initial reports are that the Ukraine are hammering the North Korean forces.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:54am
  - Taieri
    
    between 10,000 and 15,000 North Korean special forces to help
    ————
    
    They are just a cannon fodder and their lives are disposable.
    
    17 0
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    November 5, 2024 9:02am
    - pdm
      
      Disposable or dispensable?
      
      Maybe both depending on how effectively Ukraine is able to deal to them.
      
      4 1
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      November 5, 2024 10:17am
  - Grunter
    
    Yep – Russia is hardly a threat to conquering the rest of Europe with the military capabilities that they have. They have their hands full dealing to Ukraine let alone taking on NATO countries which they know would be foolish.
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:18am
    - Handyman
      
      Russia will use salami tactics. Next is Moldova.
      Harris will do nothing.
      
      Next will be the Suwalki Corridor (between Belarus and Kalingrad). Harris will do nothing.
      
      Next will be the Baltic states (effectively landlocked between Russia and Nato reinforcements). Harris will do what Obama did -nothing!
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:47am
      - Taieri
        
        Next will be the Suwalki Corridor
        ———
        
        Unlikely. There are no roads there and the terrain is not very friendly to any form of transport.
        
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        November 5, 2024 1:44pm
  - Mod88
    
    Kim Jnr wants his troops to gain combat experience, Russia didn’t “need” them per se. Ukraine on the other hand is desperate for EU/US boots on the ground. I daresay there are undeclared Western troops operating be it Support Services or Special Forces. It isn’t Ukrainians operating the Patriot Systems etc.
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:20am
    - Colville
      
      How many of those troops will die?
      How many will just run off for a life in Europe?
      
      I wouldnt think many will be taking the ride back to NK and further starvation.!
      
      7 0
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      November 5, 2024 10:14am
      - kowtow
        
        If any Norks got across the Ukr lines and into Poland they’d have a huge chance of successful asylum claim and then could end up in the UK via small boats .
        
        And if they adopted a cat in the UK , no chance of deportation .
        
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        November 5, 2024 12:50pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      I bet Kim doesn’t want the troops coming back to North Korea bearing stories of the world beyond.
      
      Apparently the NK combat slaves are costing Russia $200 million and 700000 tonnes of rice plus some tech transfer.
      
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      November 5, 2024 10:36am
  - NothingLeft
    
    in a battle yesterday some North Koreans ended up killing a whole lot of Russians by mistake. Round eyes all look the same to them.
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:34am
    - kowtow
      
      makes a change from putin deliberately killing hordes of his soldiers in those mass infantry attcks he seems to insist on.
      
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      November 5, 2024 12:46pm
  - Paulus
    
    Russia needs some what is called Gun Fodder – they are North Koreans, who will go in first.
    Russian troops are not going into difficult areas first any longer.
    
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    November 5, 2024 3:00pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    The idea that North Korea entering the war on the Russian side somehow shows that Russia is doing badly is just plain dumb. Especially since Ukraine is fielding mercenaries from as far afield as South America.
    Russia is doing well and with additional support it will do even better. The frontline is only moving in one direction and that is westwards.
    
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    November 5, 2024 7:48pm
- kowtow
  
  I see [Mod – use proper names] is coming here to do some talky stuff .
  I wonder how many fools will be parted with their hard earned in an attempt to tell themselves how relevant and Elite they are .
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:02am
  - Local Miller
    
    Hi Mod, if you are going to insist on posters using proper names and deleting the euphemisms the poster originally used, please add the “proper” name, so the rest of us plebs can make sense of the post!
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:54am
    - Grunter
      
      I usually use both (as in the above comment).
      
      The Mods are getting stricter on this – which is fair enough, thems the rules. Makes for a cleaner KB forum I guess.
      
      My nickname for Boris Johnson was only vaguely offensive to some, I’ve been called much worse on KB in the past……
      
      kowtow was referring to Boris Johnson….
      
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      November 5, 2024 11:42am
      - kowtow
        
        Yes a contraction of the first 2 letters of his name followed by a noun that rhymes with frown.
        
        Mind you in Oz, Albo is ok as was Scomo ……..
        
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        November 5, 2024 12:45pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        The rules aren’t clear and consistent.
        Benedict called Guy Hatchard “one of the world’s biggest con men” earlier today. Surely that is more offensive than a nickname.
        
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        November 5, 2024 2:19pm
- Geri Sjovik
  
  If NATO attacks Russia it will be because Russia has already attacked a NATO country.
  
  Besides, who is Russia to say that Ukraine can’t have other nations fighting along side its own troops.
  
  It’s not Russian territory. It’s another nation they have invaded.
  
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  November 5, 2024 6:27pm
Chuck Bird

Hosking did a great job this morning interviewing Luxon.
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November 5, 2024 8:36am
- kowtow
  
  Great interview on the Platform now with UK Free Speech head honcho.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:42am
Tauhei Notts

OK. That is it. Mainstream media is totally phucked.
This morning’s N.Z. Herald has a two page sweepstake feature for Australasia’s biggest horse race, the Melbourne Cup.
Do not use that sweepstake feature. They have stuffed up the horse numbers.
The topweight in a handicap is always #1. This morning’s paper shows it as #3. And so it goes on.
But the graphics are very pretty, and it has great use of colour. But it all as accurate as their coverage of the Kackling One.
I am so old that recall Evening Peal winning the Cup, but have never seen anything like this.
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November 5, 2024 8:47am
- Conservatarian
  
  Journalismers are functionally innumerate so this is not surprising.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:25am
  - Taieri
    
    They are. Both, illiterate and innumerate. The other day it was reported that the late HMNZS Manawanui that sank last month off Samoan coast was “carrying 950 tonnes – the equivalent of 950,000 litres – of fuel.”
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/532707/start-of-cyclone-season-increases-danger-from-manawanui-wreck-expert
    
    Well, 950 tonnes of diesel corresponds not to 950000 litres, but to approximately 1144000 litres, since the specific gravity of marine diesel is not the same as that of fresh water but much lower at about 0.83
    
    But what is an additional 100K litres of fuel between friends?
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:07am
- sirknz
  
  Physical copy of the NZ Herald?
  
  Why would I do that, unless I need something for a pet to crap on, or to start a fire, my money is staying in my pocket.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:27am
- kowtow
  
  Today’s NZME Herald editorial comes out strongly for Mike King and scolds Ingrid Leary and labour for being “mean spirited” toward him.
  
  Yet they published only the other day a pretty low cartoon against him .
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:34am
Grunter

“I will hit all the English people in the face because they stole the land”. And “My Dad is Māori like me. I feel sorry for my Mum. She’s only Pākehā.”

Paku Manu Ariki Whakatakapōkai – The Best Picture Book Award, funded by Creative New Zealand. This is the same Creative New Zealand that funded Tusi’ata Avia’s poem that cast Captain Cook as an avatar for Europeans in New Zealand and celebrated stabbing him with a pig knife.

This is how our taxpayer’s funds are spent!! FFS – no wonder the rest of the world thinks that the West is pharked!
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November 5, 2024 8:49am
- JimBobJoe
  
  Grunter. CNZ is partially funded by Tax Payers via the Government (Min. of Culture and Heritage but also, like Film NZ also receives large sums from NZ Lotteries.
  
  Both funding sources need ending and these Arts organisations should be funded by voluntary contributions i.e. sponsorships, donations etc
  
  The Arts sector is blatantly Far Left and pushes messages that shouldn’t be State funded or sanctioned in anyway. They raise their own money then lay on and say what you will, but you & I should not be funding their AgitProp.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:33am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    and Goldsmith & Nats want to “increase the impact of our arts and culture here and on the world stage, and significantly increase the sectors’ contribution to GDP and export revenue by 2030.”
    
    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2411/S00017/governments-creative-sector-strategy-released.htm
    
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    November 5, 2024 9:56am
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Maggy, that just sums the National Party up.
      
      Boosting those who hate them so they will be accepted around dinner tables in the posh end of town where ‘arts & culture’ are regarded as setting the Toffs apart from the riff raff.
      
      And of course those Toffs want the average tax payer to fund their peccadillos…
      
      National need to go back to their principles and set the Left back on their heels – and starting in the Arts area would be an ideal place to start with a slogan ‘Arts funding or better funding for Children’s Health care?? You decide’
      
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      November 5, 2024 2:44pm
- Geri Sjovik
  
  I came here to post about this too.
  
  And to think Hamas running the UNRWA schools preach this sort of hate.
  
  What’s the old, and accurate, saying; give me the child and I will give you the man.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:49am
- BananaLlama
  
  Another self-hating racist, they are the worst of all.
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:36am
Swifty

“Do as we say, or die.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/samuel-paty-beheading-eight-face-trial-in-france-over-islamist-links/5WNVB63FLBB6RKIOLU7FDWFWJ4/
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November 5, 2024 8:56am
- sirknz
  
  Wow. Some guys in France, behead someone else in France, and the guys who did the beheading might have Islamist links.
  
  No way…
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:28am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘A man convicted of terrorism and sentenced to life for his involvement in the murder of four Jews in a French synagogue bombing, is an active Professor of Sociology at a Canadian University, and teaches a course on “social justice in action.’
    
    https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-827521
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:30am
    - Swifty
      
      Unbelievable!
      
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      November 5, 2024 3:22pm
  - rjay
    
    If only there was a French word for chopping off heads…
    
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    November 5, 2024 12:16pm
    - Keith White
      
      Tete-a-bas?
      
      Le raccourcissement des aristos?
      
      Or – the device could be named after its inventor, the faux-Fauci of his day…
      
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      November 5, 2024 3:20pm
  - Jack5
    
    From Kowtow’s link to the Jerusalem Post:
    
    “Despite the international arrest warrant against him, Diab will be teaching a sociology course this year at Carleton University in Ottawa.”
    
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    November 5, 2024 1:57pm
Swifty

I still find myself shocked at the straight out lying by the lefty press, here in the US this time.

I know I shouldn’t, but I do.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yVhy3kDKXJ4

This time about Trump and wanting to shoot MTG.

I don’t know how the lefties sleep at night.
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November 5, 2024 9:01am
- AitchW
  
  Swifty, twisted like pretzels from their deep seated bitterness toward those more successful than them.
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I think you mean warhawk RINO Liz Cheney, not MTG.
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:15am
  - Swifty
    
    Sorry, yes, you’re quite right.
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:06am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  And their media were counting facts about Harris now running away with the polls. Only for 3 new polls showing trump leading nationally and leading 5 of the 7 toss up states and equal in one
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:13am
RoboRob

Anyone see the ‘interview’ with Luxon on the playschool TV one breakfast show?

First question, re US election, essentially ‘Kamala will be great for NZ and America, and we will have friendly relations, a Trump win would be ruinous for NZ with 20% tariffs…. right?’.

This pathetic ‘statement’ question was followed by a stream of ‘National sux’ questions. I look forward to tomorrows Hipkins interview where such questions as ‘You are a lovely, smart and caring man Chris, tell us again how a capital gains tax will fix all the problems in NZ caused by the hard right wingers?’
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November 5, 2024 9:22am
- AitchW
  
  RoboRob why bother watching if it annoys you so much?
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:53am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    In watching one learns to understand ones enemies…….
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:10am
  - RoboRob
    
    Fair question. I never used to watch it, I watched the TV3 show which was much much better. I have always thought the TVNZ version was crap.
    
    I watch it becuase while I have breakfast and get ready for work its handy to have a clock on the screen, news coverage and weather forcasts. I dont want to stream something I am interested in and I dont get the paper.
    
    Also it shows me the level of bias and quality of our tax payer news service (I refuse to watch any TV news in the evening).
    
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    November 5, 2024 10:17am
    - Conservatarian
      
      You are halfway to happiness. I suggest buying a watch for easy access to knowing the time, and consulting weatherwatch.co.nz for weather. Then you can totally purge your normie TV watching habits.
      
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      November 5, 2024 2:37pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Trump does intend to create tarriffs, and may be able to with control of house and senate somewhat likely.
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:38am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Pretty sure the tariffs are going on countries that are taking their businesses and business with them, not so sure it is all nations
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:16am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Trump sees Chinese EVs made in Mexico as a threat to to American car industry. Make them unaffordable and Americans manufacture again.
      
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      November 5, 2024 12:41pm
      - MCōs
        
        Funnily enough Tesla vehicles are manufactured in California and Texas
        
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        November 5, 2024 1:51pm
      - Mike
        
        I reckon Elon Musk should be in charge of taxing his competition and deregulating industries in which he invests.
        
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        November 5, 2024 2:09pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        MCos – assembled, not manufactured.
        Same as NZ Toyotas back in the day. Manufactured in Thames? Nope, assembled in Thames.
        
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        November 5, 2024 6:04pm
    - CrazyIvan
      
      Trump has said a 10% tariff on all imports regardless of where they have come from with higher percentages for specific countries. Just today he’s mentioned 100% rate on imports from Mexico.
      
      So we would be slapped with tariffs – only a question of how much
      
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      November 5, 2024 12:50pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Dairy industry needs looking at. Maybe wine – but both very small for the US.
        This is why we have a Govt who might have to “WORK” for us negotiating Trade agreements.
        Have a closer look Ivan.
        
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        November 5, 2024 6:15pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  We are a trading nation, and an economic protectionist trader is not good for a small nation such as ours.
  
  Under the Biden Presidency, NZ exports to the us increased by 20%, In the first year of Trumps presidency, they dropped from 4.04 billion to 3.69 Billion. In 2019, it had risen slightly to 3.72 Billion. Last year, it was 5.08 Billion.
  
  https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/exports/united-states
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:00am
  - MCōs
    
    About 3/4 of our exports to America are dairy, wine & meat and edible offal.
    One doesn’t like to be overly cynical, but one wonders in whose interests it would be if tariffs were sharply increased on any of those items.
    
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    November 5, 2024 2:09pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The USA has much bigger fish to fry. Prepare accordingly. Diversification is always a good idea.
      
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      November 5, 2024 3:07pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        Agreed, but that also includes cultural diversification. It’s time to stop treating Americans as Gods
        
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        November 5, 2024 7:58pm
    - Quail
      
      Perhaps take reference to recent balance of payments before claiming to be trading nation.
      Trade and exports has declined under successive Governments , manufacturing,pastoral agriculture products replaced with Tourism , immigration ,and other service industries. Sheep numbers down from 70 million down to about 20, Freezing works are closing .
      Manufacturing has largely moved off shore Example the iconic Fisher and Paykel .
      Forest processors can’t get enough electricity to survive.
      Many of the remaining industries eg dairy forestry have a huge debt mountain and many of those that don’t are owned offshore.
      NZ does not now have sufficient export productivity to be regarded as an influential trading nation.
      
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      November 5, 2024 4:08pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If you go on holiday to the US, how much does it cost for one UD Dollar?
    It is cheap to manufacture and export from NZ – that is why they do it.
    My NZ dollar buys $US 60 cents. One US dollar is NZ$1.67 US$. Never mind the exchange rate changing by miniscule points.
    
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    November 5, 2024 6:24pm
Conservatarian

Survey data from a 2020 Pew poll indicates that white liberals disproportionately suffer from mental illness versus their conservative counterparts.

The study, which examined white liberals, moderates, and conservatives, both male and female, found that conservatives were far less likely to be diagnosed with mental health issues than those who identified as either liberal or even “very liberal.”

Young white women suffered the worst.

White women, ages 18-29, who identified as liberal were given a mental health diagnosis from medical professionals at a rate of 56.3%, as compared to 28.4% in moderates and 27.3% in conservatives.

https://wibc.com/108211/pew-study-white-liberals-disproportionately-suffer-from-mental-illness/
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November 5, 2024 9:27am
- Yvette
  
  Conservatarian, could if perhaps be that conservative minded people delineate thoughts narrowly as “right or wrong”, whether they are actually “right or wrong”, requiring not greater mental investment, but those who may ‘liberally’ question beliefs expose themselves to mental conflict in issues which are not so easily defined or filed as “right or wrong”. Follow?
  Is it disengaging “done”, compared to anxiety-inducing “I don’t know what to think”
  (I will leave my long nose versus flat nose theory for later)
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:57am
  - Local Miller
    
    Yvette, this is actually a very good and not so out there idea, although I think slightly off the mark. As a Christian Conservative I would see this from a slightly different angle. Christians believe that “at our core” we actually know what’s right and wrong. In simple terms, Huge Hefner of Bunny Girl fame was interviewed, and at the time his daughter was in her late teens, or early 20s. The interviewer raised this and asked “when is your daughter going to put on a bunny suit and come to join the party?”
    Hefner’s reply is telling, he stuttered a bit then said: ” You know this is the one part of my philosophy that I struggle with, you see I don’t want by daughter to be a bunny girl!”
    The Biblical phrase is: “god has written his laws on the tablets of our heart”.
    This means not just as a lefty, but any one of significant liberal mind set living in opposition to God’s laws of right and wrong, such a person is living in constant mental and psychological conflict, with part of their “system” telling them what they are doing is wrong, and the other part urging them to “do what they want” because this is no absolute right and wrong.
    The conservative, typically with a biblical based morality even if not specifically Christian, living closer to God’s standards of right and wrong doesn’t experience this level of internal conflict.
    
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    November 5, 2024 11:15am
    - Swifty
      
      How many of your neighbours have you killed after observing them gardening on the sabbath?
      
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      November 5, 2024 3:15pm
      - Mike
        
        Top shot
        
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        November 5, 2024 7:03pm
      - Ghost
        
        https://www.bishop-accountability.org/AtAGlance/USCCB_Yearly_Data_on_Accused_Priests.htm
        
        Biblical morality, sure
        
        Biblically brainwashed into judging others and pretending you are superior than them
        
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        November 5, 2024 7:17pm
      - Local Miller
        
        Stupid shot. I’m not judge and executioner, and maybe you should actually ret to understand the bible before you try use it in an anti-bible argument.
        
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        November 5, 2024 9:51pm
      - Local Miller
        
        Yes, Ghost, some people professing to be Christian have done terrible things, but that doesn’t change the truth.
        I don’t see you speaking out against the child abuse in gay communities in the same way you attach Christians.
        
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        November 5, 2024 9:55pm
      - Local Miller
        
        I notice no one has addressed my comment that we all actually know right from wrong because God has written it on our “hearts”.
        In fact Swifty, on what basis do you say the child sex abuse is actually abuse? This is purely your own subjective assessment and has no basis in truth. There have been societies where child sacrifice was common, who are you to say that Iran’s treatment of woman is wrong? Do you have any objective method of determining what is right and wrong?
        
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        November 5, 2024 9:58pm
      - Ghost
        
        on what basis do you say the child sex abuse is actually abuse?
        
        Wow, get help
        
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        November 5, 2024 10:54pm
- NothingLeft
  
  It’s fashionable to have mental health problems as it confers status (and an all-important claim for attention) in the hierarchy of victimhood on the left.
  
  Women have higher incidence of trait neuroticism (for sound evolutionary reasons, as net recipients of male generated resources, the squeaky wheel tends to get more grease)
  
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  November 5, 2024 10:42am
  - imalwaysright
    
    That’s correct Noth, remember the fads of the old days- vegetarians, gluten free, lactose intolerant etc. Then they realised they were missing out on the good grub so switched to pretending be nuts.
    Note that they describe it as “mental health issues”. Declaring they have a mental illness is too much for them.
    
    Meanwhile, the genuinely mentally ill folk have to wait for appointments and treatment…
    
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    November 5, 2024 2:34pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      I personally have run into “academics” touting their mental problems (ADHD, ADD etc etc) as giving them “super-powers”. Yes they were female. This doesn’t appear to be leading anywhere good IMHO.
      
      The clearly sperg STEM guys (EG PhD level chemistry whizz) I’ve met tend to keep their sperg tendencies on the down low (obvious as they are to those around them).
      
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      November 5, 2024 3:15pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    Women AND children are net recipients of male resources and as everyone either is or was a child that means all of us.
    
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    November 5, 2024 8:04pm
RoboRob

Just found a video and re watched the ‘interview’. The actual exact wording was ‘If elected will Kamala Harris forge closer ties with NZ and if she loses how disruptive could a second Donald Trump presidency be.’
So not quite what I said above but still the same sort of implications, especially as it followed a monologue around Trump tariffs.

Truely pathetic journalism.
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November 5, 2024 9:30am
- RoboRob
  
  Not sure why this isn’t tied to my original post re Playshool TV. It was supposed to be 🙂
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:50am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Good point about it being like Playschool.
    Daniel in particular talks as if he’s addressing a group of preschoolers.
    The woman with the tatoos seems passive aggressive towards whites but brown people are treated with great respect and their contribution to the show acknowledged with a reverent “Beaudifo, beaudifo”
    
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    November 5, 2024 3:08pm
Jack5

Great win for New Zealand free speech in the Paul Burns case.

Well done Free Speech Union!

https://www.fsu.nz/police_withdraw_charges_after_arrest_for_engaging_in_debate_a_huge_victory_for_free_speech
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November 5, 2024 10:17am
- kowtow
  
  A victory of sorts but very instructive and frightening.
  
  Where’s the common sense from the police . Looks like after the arrest they ‘double downed’ and tried to up the charges .
  
  And where’s the outrage from te meedia paahti who seem to want to take the police to task over anti gangster /organised crime operations but then they’re happy to give cover to the Cops for this nonsense .
  
  So the media are pro gang and anti free speech , which is very odd indeed.
  
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  November 5, 2024 11:26am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Yeah, no guilty verdict, but the message from the police was sent loud and clear.
  
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  November 5, 2024 12:24pm
  - Keith White
    
    Yes, ‘the process is the punishment’ – and he was fortunate to have a very smart legal defender voluntarily help him. The rest of Les Deplorables do not have anyone like that for when our to-be-assigned Javert comes calling with Cahill’s Blue Patched Gang behind him…
    
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    November 5, 2024 3:23pm
- GJM
  
  So who much did that cost? How much stress? Will he now be on a special List for future attacks? Who has lost their job over this very obvious intimidation?
  The police wonder why nobody trusts them anymore, even the middle classes who are their natural supporters.
  
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  November 6, 2024 10:10pm
Gussy Fink-Nottle

On the subject of heritage buildings in NZ (I can’t be bothered finding a suitable place to insert this in the excellent conversation above).

It is a real problem, with a powerful few, effecting the many.

We have buildings that are either way past any theoretical design life, and/or simply not suited to modern standards.
It is expensive (and risky) fixing up older buildings. The Wellington Central Library, and Town Hall are exemplars of this fallacy.
Perhaps, just as significant, we have a substantial loss of utility while these knackered old structures are under restoration. Wellington has had no town hall for over a decade. A significant number of the rate payers that have funded the work won’t live to use the building. And yes, they could have had a lovely library, for half the money, and be using it today.
Heritage New Zealand does not bother itself with such trifles – they are part of an ever-growing blob of single-issue institutions that are incapable of objectively assessing democratic value.

Why are buildings singly so affected by this ideology? Why not cars, clothes, or computers? Imagine being forced to run a ‘70’s Datsun and an Amstrad 64 because someone else, with little-or-no skin in the game, decides that it would be nice that you should.

This is emblematic of one of our biggest problems today – spending money we don’t have, on stuff that doesn’t matter.
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November 5, 2024 12:32pm
Ghost

Sean Plunket

Ben Espiner Explains How You Were Gaslit By Media & A Polling Company

No support for a cgt
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November 5, 2024 12:36pm
- Jack5
  
  Here’s the Ipsos statement at the core of the controversy:
  
  When asked for their views on support of a Capital Gains Tax, 65% of New Zealanders would support one in some format. The most supported Capital Gains Tax situation is for the sale of an investment property (57% support), followed by the sale of a business (43% support). The majority of New Zealanders do not support a Capital Gains Tax on the same [sic] of a family home (78% oppose) or other assets such as boats, cars, paintings (64% oppose).
  
  NZ already has mild capital gains tax, as has been spelled out on Kiwiblog umpteen times.
  
  Just as interesting from the Ipsos poll news release is:
  
  Across both ends of the political spectrum, inflation / cost of living and healthcare / hospitals are considered the top 2 issues both now, and in the next 5 years.
  
  https://www.ipsos.com/en-nz/ipsos-nz-issues-monitor-oct-2024
  
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  November 5, 2024 1:09pm
NZer In Exile

Kamala delivers weirdness once again. Out of nowhere tells Muslim interviewer “bacon is a spice” then “Think about it, it’s pure flavor.”

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2024/11/04/bacon-gate-kamala-harris-just-royally-flubbed-an-interview-with-a-muslim-influencer-n2181536

I have often wondered what substance/s she is on.
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November 5, 2024 1:33pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Bacon is just Ham without the haram…..
  
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  November 5, 2024 2:21pm
Swifty

I know, let’s be kind to the gangs, they’re just our whanau after all…..

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360464795/vicious-and-unprovoked-gang-attack-followed-give-us-your-socks-demand
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November 5, 2024 2:57pm
- Keith White
  
  “First they came for the ethnocriminal gangs and I said ‘Yeah! go for it!’ because I am not and have never been a gang member.”
  
  “Then, once we were rid of the ethnocriminal gangs, that job was done; so everyone relaxed, the sun shone, the streets were safer, and everyone was happier – except for those who had to mow the grass.”
  
  The End (for now).
  
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  November 5, 2024 3:31pm
Keith White

“Official government data has revealed that Australia has suffered a historic surge of all-cause excess deaths among the nation’s universally Covid-vaccinated population.

“A major new study has found that Australia, which has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, recorded skyrocketing excess deaths after the Covid mRNA “vaccines” were rolled out in early 2021.

Luckily nothing like that happened here and was covered up simply by not releasing the analysis, right?

/sarc
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November 5, 2024 5:01pm
- Bridgenag
  
  BY will tell you that is fake news
  
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  November 5, 2024 7:34pm
Sparrow

Yesterday Mike wrote that the FSU did nothing and he only joined organisations that did do. That’s fair enough but he had ignored what the FSU had achieved in getting charges withdrawn against an anti abortion person. Today FSU reports that after several difficult meetings with the Police Commissioner the police are now reviewing how they interpretate hate speach and will also be reviewing their training of officers. I believe this is doing things.
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November 5, 2024 5:09pm
- Mike
  
  Not quite what I wrote. I objected to them trolling actual unions.
  
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  November 5, 2024 6:31pm
AitchW

My god. https://x.com/mrsrosieb/status/1853626805858816173/photo/1
I don’t know if my link will work, but it’s the new Green mp after being sworn in.
Beret, blouse, skirt, ankle socks, shoes, and a keffiyeh over his arm.
It’s time that the speaker started to enforce the dress code.
The debating chamber is NOT a place to play dress up and wear mummy’s clothes. Neither is it a place to parade symbols of a murderous cult.
What imbeciles voted for these poseurs?
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November 5, 2024 5:35pm
- H. Upmann
  
  What the fuck is that?
  
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  November 5, 2024 7:23pm
- graham
  
  Your link worked.
  
  I am now looking for bleach to wash my eyes …
  
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  November 5, 2024 7:47pm
- fernglas
  
  I could live with most of that ensemble, but white socks? That should be grounds for impeachment.
  
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  November 5, 2024 8:20pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Come back Darleen Tana! All is forgiven!
  
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  November 5, 2024 9:07pm
Colville

Big day for USA and the world tomorrow.

538 has PA flipped to Harris by 0.2%. and Harris to win 50/100 Trump to win 49/100. both have moved against Trump in the last 2 days.

Popular vote is predicted at 48.1% Harris to 46.2 Trump.

Trump won handily with 46.2% of the vote Vs Clinton in 2016.

So its going to be very very tight IMHO. Trump certainly has not finished well like I thought he would.
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November 5, 2024 6:02pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Landslide to the orange man.
  
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  November 5, 2024 6:26pm
  - Colville
    
    Aint gonna happen.
    
    If he is wearing his lucky undies he might just get into 285 territory. Any idea of a result ending in a 3 died with his poor endgame.
    
    Dems have been smashing the states that matter… celeb endorsements and a HUGE phone game.
    
    Is Trump just too old??
    
    Personally I would like him to win to see lefty heads explode (including some close friends) but for New Zealand I doubt it makes a lot of difference.
    
    For the USA…its not as tho Biden has ever been the actual President… so its more of the same from the behind the scenes crowd.
    
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    November 5, 2024 6:55pm
Scooter

Yet another article on Labour criticising the Govt. I don’t think National got as much airtime when Labour was in govt. And going by Labours track record and failure to do anything remotely competent I fail to see how they can be criticising anything the Nat’s are doing. All made possible of course by the MSM aka the real opposition party.

“Deeply concerning’: Labour tears into Luxon over lack of bootcamp knowledge”
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November 5, 2024 6:34pm
Ghost

The Government intends to put the controversial Treaty Principles Bill before the House this Thursday, according to a Waitangi Tribunal memo seen by 1News.

Article
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November 5, 2024 7:38pm
MCōs

The tunnel from the Wellington CBD to Kilbirnie has been axed to the surprise of nobody ever.
I wonder why Brown ever put forward the idea in the first place?
For such a grand project minimal money was spent on preliminary design work before it was deemed too expensive to build
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November 5, 2024 8:52pm

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