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November 3, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 03 November 2024

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Bridgenag

Zombie Traffic Light: The German government teeters once again on the brink of collapse, but in truth it is already dead

https://open.substack.com/pub/eugyppius/p/zombie-traffic-light-the-german-government?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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November 3, 2024 8:06am
- Simon
  
  Kinda like National. National going through the motions, not really up to it.
  
  Willis asking public sector for ideas, Luxon saying we need to have a conversion about murder, after running on fixing crime, Luxon going on about NZ being an economic powerhouse – but the panty sniffing govt jobsworths exert so much control over business. National refuse to address.
  
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  November 3, 2024 9:00am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Deep State target list of over 300.
The worm is turning.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/there-must-be-consequences-trump-ally-reveals-deep-state-target-list-of-over-300-people/ar-AA1to4No?
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November 3, 2024 8:07am
- lastmanstanding
  
  If The Donald wins which I suspect he will IMHO his foreign policy will in part be as follows.
  
  1. He will tell Putin and Zelensky that Putin can keep the terrority he has already won on the condition he withdraws and forgets about his Russian Empire dream. If Putin doesnt accept the US will ramp up the action. Putin wants an end he is bleeding hence the North Korean troops plus his people will be getting restless with the worsening economic conditions. If Zelensky doesnt agree US will withdraw all its support.
  
  2. The ME. The Donald will tell Iran either it stops funding the terrorist groups and ensures they are dismantled or US will destroy Irans nuke and oil facilities. Again IMHO their citizens especially the young want to see the back of the Mullahs.
  
  3. China. The Donald will tell Xi forget designs on Taiwan or as well as military action to defend it the US will impose huge tariffs. However if China gives up on Taiwan the tariffs will be lower. Xi has a problem with the middle class Chinese. The economy is hurting them and unlike 60 years ago the CCP dont have the same control over the citizens.
  
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  November 3, 2024 9:30am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Zelenski/Putin, Iran, and China will come to their senses. They won’t like it, but that is the way it will be. No military action – the threat is enough. Trump is not a warmonger.
    They know Trump means business.
    
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    November 3, 2024 9:53am
  - mandk
    
    I don’t think the US can withdraw support from Ukraine.
    
    If it does, Ukraine would collapse, and Putin would be emboldened to attack one of the Baltic states.
    
    All of the Baltic states are members of NATO, and an attack on them is an attack on the whole of NATO.
    
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    November 3, 2024 10:05am
  - Matt Long
    
    Does Ukraine keep occupied territory in Kursk according to your mind reading?
    
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    November 3, 2024 10:19am
Bridgenag

Weekly Round-up: The Sky is Falling over Kamalaland

“Science Magazine, the once prestigious science journal that sullied its reputation with its biased COVID crisis reporting, has once again come out with a Henny-Penny “Sky is falling” prognosis of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s “extreme views.””

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/weekly-round-up-the-sky-is-falling?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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November 3, 2024 8:09am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I would not characterise Robert F. Kennedy Jr’s views as extreme. Unfortunately such views are common. What is not common is that a person with such views has the prospect of obtaining power. He is the biggest downside of a prospective Trump administration.
  
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  November 3, 2024 8:38am
  - Rodney Hide
    
    Hi Benedict
    
    I never thought much of him myself mainly because he is a Kennedy. However, I am reasonably well read in the corruption of science and government regulation by the pharmaceutical industry because of my interest both in epistemology (I am a critical rationalist or Popperian) and public policy (Austrian School).
    
    However, I read RFK jnr’s book on Fauci and was very impressed. He’s a smart and studied man, way more than my casual interest.
    
    He’s also correct about food supply (for completeness, Weston A Price’s work on nutrition is the best we have).
    
    I don’t know much about the CIA and FBI but they have not covered themselves in glory over the Trump years. It will be a great plus to open the books.
    
    RFK jnr is a big bonus for me, not least because we may get transparency and accountability for the covid years.
    
    Rodney Hide
    
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    November 3, 2024 8:55am
    - imalwaysright
      
      “I never thought much of him myself mainly because he is a Kennedy.”
      
      That’s like saying you don’t think much of a previous prime ministers child because you don’t like the mother.
      
      But I do agree with your subsequent points.
      
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      November 3, 2024 9:21am
      - Sacha
        
        Quite different.
        Kennedy is a mature man who has been involved in politics all his life. He has a considerable life/political experience independent of other members of his family.
        The previous prime ministers child is simply that.
        A child with limited experience and controlled by the parents..
        
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        November 3, 2024 9:49am
      - David Garrett
        
        Imalways: I agree…”because he’s a Kennedy” is not one of the former leader’s best observations
        
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        November 3, 2024 9:50am
Yvette

Treaty Principles Bill: American Indian tribal leader Chief Kirk Francis on indigenous sovereignty
An American Indian tribe leader has described New Zealand’s approaching public debate around the Treaty Principles Bill as “a scary conversation” and one that “never really worked out very well for indigenous people”.
[Kirk Francis, the chief of the Penobscot Nation in Maine in the United States and president of United South and Eastern Tribes , a group of 33 American Indian tribes] … said the US constitution had a clause that recognised three sovereigns: the United States, individual states and Indian tribes.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/a-scary-conversation-american-indian-tribal-leader-chief-kirk-francis-on-the-treaty-principles-bill-and-indigenous-sovereignty/P34QZX6TYZEAVO7ZENRICGYBNI/

What the article does not touch on is the membership of an Indian Nation, or applying it here: the membership of Iwi Maori –

Kirk Francis grew up in Maine, and like his Penobscot people, has deep ties to the river and land of his local area. “Our connection to land is everything for the tribe. My tribe is a riverine people. … “It’s been determined that this is not a race-based relationship, it’s really a political distinction between the First Peoples and the United States.
… Francis said: “I’m not an expert in this, the treaty situation here, but I think anytime somebody wants to clarify something, it never really works out very well for the indigenous people, right?
“Because typically those are efforts to minimise the impact on people outside. I’m sure a lot of people on both sides will be weighing in on those issues. But (…) it’s a scary conversation.”

Will New Zealand ever solve such a problem as “inclusion”, what constitutes (pun accepted) a separate Iwi Nation, and how members are identified, or identify themselves, when there is no formal basis to any discussion, because media is falling apart and state television, for example, has no programme like COMPASS, GALLERY or any other current affairs flagship to even justify a Government having a public broadcaster?

Is any discussion on the Constitutional place of the Treaty of Waitangi going to wallow in the media void, as did Jacinda Ardern’s national “conversation” on Capital Gains Tax, and its demise under her so-called Government’s stewardship?
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November 3, 2024 8:15am
gravedodger

Another awesome weekend for NZ sporting aura.
Smashed England by a conversion almost on full time at Twickenham and the cricket, well we have India on the ropes needing 150 with O’Rourke to come,//
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November 3, 2024 8:29am
- hookerphil
  
  And the Tongan’s beat the Maoris.
  
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  November 3, 2024 8:54am
  - David Garrett
    
    Hooker: It must be incredibly frustrating for the Tongans: normally a win over NZ – or anyone really – would result in cars driving everywhere with horns blaring and guys hanging out of the cars yelling…but its Sunday, and they can’t do that
    
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    November 3, 2024 9:27am
    - Jack5
      
      First full game of league I’ve watched in a long life, and it was magnificent right up until the end. Great playing and spirit by both teams.
      
      What I’ve been missing: the play in league is so open and continuous. The tackling is heavy but the physical damage can’t be worse than from the pile-ups in rugby union’s rucks.
      
      The two professional soccer clubs have a tough task winning New Zealanders over from the rugby codes.
      
      Woke media and TVNZ have made gains converting us from the noun “soccer,” a use we shared with Americans, to “football”.
      
      However, NZ soccer/football publicists overdid things yesterday by hinting there might be “inter-club” violence as the two teams met.
      
      This contrasted with news clips showing very mild supporters.
      
      Did I really hear a TV reporter say of them: “there have been no reports of violence”?
      
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      November 3, 2024 10:16am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  NZ 143 ahead, if India can’t take the last week and score those runs easily then they need new players, many of their played really starting to look old, some are out of shape
  
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  November 3, 2024 10:08am
cas

An Australian surf club is being charged for a welcome to country ceremony by a tribe which has native title over the land and over a stretch of the ocean.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14032633/yamba-surf-club-charged-welcome-country.html

I wonder if that’s where we are heading.
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November 3, 2024 8:38am
- Swifty
  
  Mate we’re already way, way down that track…
  
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  November 3, 2024 9:11am
- Flossie
  
  But all the Kiwis emigrating to Australia to get away from that sort of nonsense over here…
  
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  November 3, 2024 10:07am
NeverMindTheBollocks

UK Conservatives elect fourth female leader, and first black leader of any major party at Westminster.

Meanwhile Labour, party of progressivism, is batting nil and nil.

Do as I say and not as I do, anyone?

http://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0qdnewgx19o
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November 3, 2024 8:43am
- Swifty
  
  It’s bloody delicious isn’t it?
  
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  November 3, 2024 9:12am
G152

And a woman pretending to be a man is pregnant. Surprise surprise
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November 3, 2024 8:47am
- Damocles11
  
  And the diabolical New Zealand Herald are promoting such insanity with gushing articles. I hope the subscribers and advertisers are proud of themselves, funding the people who are pushing this far left propaganda on our people, including the young and impressionable.
  
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  November 3, 2024 9:37am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Good news, Damo. The young don’t read the Herald.
    
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    November 3, 2024 9:56am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

10 things to do before Trump becomes Hitler.
Wear a Covid mask alone in your car while you still can..

https://babylonbee.com/news/things-you-should-do-one-last-time-before-trump-institutes-a-totalitarian-state?
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November 3, 2024 8:48am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Which side will be denying Election votes?
It’s as American as baseball, apple pie, and hating Canada.

https://babylonbee.com/news/nation-anxiously-waits-to-see-which-side-will-be-denying-election-results?
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November 3, 2024 9:01am
RightNow

The execution of Peanut the squirrel has just won the election for Donald Trump.
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November 3, 2024 9:03am
Ra Henare

Browsing Kiwiblog, as I do daily. Especially General Debate. Having done so for the last 12+ years.
On a number of occasions, I am educated and enlightened by reasoned and educated responses.

However….
I wondered what “”a man from Mars”” might think about New Zealanders if this is a sample of NZ thinking.

Will it be rational, considered debate on the subjects of the day?

Maybe not.

From the 37 odd regular commenters posts, it would seem

1. That New Zealanders don’t like Māoris’ or Pacific Islanders’ Think they are lazy or bludgers.
2. That the continued massacre of Palestinians by Israel is justified.
3. That Only the Russians’ commit war crimes and Ukrainians don’t
4. Think that Main Stream media is corrupt or Biased EXCEPT, when they want to quote a journalist’s article that supports their point of View.

For the subjects of the day.
I am fortunate enough to have the time and inclination to drill down, behind claims, and try not to be emotionally involved and knee-jerk an opinion.

Hence, my points, which tend to generate the crap that gets thrown at me by those emotionally engaged in the topic.

I expect flack for having the temerity of expressing an opinion, such as Candice Owens, Jordan Peterson, or any other opinionists.
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November 3, 2024 9:03am
- wsk12345
  
  I don’t come away with those takeaways. Without going through posts in detail I would say
  1. Most don’t want division by race
  2. A chunk of the demographic on here spends a lot of time watching sport
  3. Most of us don’t think it’s ok for blocked to pretend to be women or use women’s facilities
  4. Most commenters think labour is generally full of vacuous spiteful airheads; there’s a split on how weak and woke the Nats are.
  
  (I don’t bother with reading posts on sport or wars anymore, yes the latter is very polarised).
  
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  November 3, 2024 9:28am
- Damocles11
  
  You are another from the deliberately disingenuous left wing horde of race-baiters and gaslighters who equate a desire for equality and for all citizens to have equal rights and duties with ‘we hate Maori’. Again, it is nothing more than gaslighting. The Labour party is dependent on Maori for political support, hence the Labour party’s utter capitulation to co-governance and now emerging separatism.
  What posters desire is for Maori to turn away from stoking division, and for their leadership to turn away from inflammatory and divisive rhetoric which will tear this country apart, and instead start preaching a hopeful message about unity of all peoples in this land, and a message of the importance of Maori being personally responsible and law-abiding. The crime figures are absolutely damning and most citizens are sick of the way violence and gang culture seems to be tolerated rather than condemned.
  
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  November 3, 2024 9:46am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  “That New Zealanders don’t like Māoris’ or Pacific Islanders’ Think they are lazy or bludgers”
  
  I disagree, Ra. I think KBloggers dislike the institutional bias in favour of these two demographics from the State and the media. I see KBloggers celebrating the accomplishments of members of those demographics, especially when such demographic is not cited as the reason for those successes. Shane Reti and various All Blacks spring to mind. 
  
  Where I would agree with you is that lazy commenting produces broad brush strokes – consider the relationship between gangs and Maori, or social housing etc. There’s a difference between a statistically significant percentage of Maori and all Maori. Partly that’s due to the nature of blogging, especially from tapping away into a phone. But, it is incumbent on KBloggers to be more precise when posting – proofreading is our friend! 
  
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  November 3, 2024 9:49am
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  Specifically, kiwibloggers hate Maori radicals, also described as “troughers” Sadly the silent majority of maoris, who just want to get on with being Kiwis, are not getting even a sliver of the pies of the troughers’ who pretend to represent them.
  Personally I resent the listing of Tribes in troughers’ names which deny a significant proportion of their true ancestry.
  
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  November 3, 2024 10:07am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  The left hate Owen’s and call her a radical, she is simply a no nonsense journalist and the left hate her because she is black and speaks sense and is a conservative. Don’t come back saying bullshit like the left she thinks the earth is flat or something so ridiculous.
  
  Why do the left only want the right silenced?
  
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  November 3, 2024 10:14am
Prince

How many Kiwi journalists are in the US telling us what a terrible person Trump is ?
And why ?
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November 3, 2024 9:23am
- Damocles11
  
  Because media view themselves as ‘stars’ and several levels above the plebs. Their heads are filled with entitlement and advocacy / activist delusions of grandeur. And unfortunately we still have plenty of people on the right who are willing to fund them through subscriptions and advertising.
  
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  November 3, 2024 9:49am
- imalwaysright
  
  I think Tame wants to be the next Brian Stelter.
  
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  November 3, 2024 9:54am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I think I saw somewhere that Jack [Mod – ise proper names] trip has been sponsored by the US Embassy.
  
  In my view, it’s not that NZ media are reporting from the US. The Presidental election is relevant to us and having on-the-spot reporting offers some value.
  
  The real question is why the reporting skews as anti Trump, but that’s a bigger question than the election coverage.
  
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  November 3, 2024 10:00am
Ghost

Stuffs banner today is interesting

Harris’s hand moving as though she is trying to make a point
Trump looks like he is doing a little Sieg Heil
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November 3, 2024 9:25am
- Colville
  
  Stuffs USA election coverage consists of four anti Trump articles and ZERO on Kamala.
  
  Says a lot that they have nothing good that they can say about their chosen one.
  
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  November 3, 2024 9:37am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Maye Musk leaves the Democrat Party.
“But then, they’d also say Elon is terrible, and I was thinking, why are they lying about Elon?” Maye said.
Short video. 0.54 min. Lovely accent.

https://crystalclearnews.com/maye-musk-finds-freedom-leaving-democrats-backs-elons-bold-2-trillion-plan/
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November 3, 2024 9:39am
MCōs

I would say if William O’Rourke can survive three balls at the end of the Blackcaps innings India will knock off the 145 odd runs easily.
Whatever happens our plucky chaps will be waving round the trophy
In the meantime the ABs beat England yet again
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November 3, 2024 9:40am
vand

“That the continued massacre of Palestinians by Israel is justified.”
Ra – you are improving but more is needed- you did not say genocide .
Yet you need to know the numbers are unreliable – the thousands of dead terrorists and those dying of old age /illness are no doubt included.
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November 3, 2024 10:15am

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