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October 18, 2024 2:00pm by David Farrar

Scary

The age differences in this poll are very alarming. Only 59% of under 30s think Hitler was evil.

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Comments (22)

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NothingLeft

It’s conditioning. We are all told we are not allow to think of anyone as bad or evil anymore, no matter how awful their behavior – they’re just unfortunate victims of circumstance. Hating anyone is unforgivable and Manichean thinking verboten
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October 18, 2024 2:07pm
- RoboRob
  
  You can be evil and still have had a couple of good ideas. Its a poor question.
  
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  October 18, 2024 3:04pm
- gnodeb
  
  What if older generation is conditioned to cartoonishly evil picture of Hitler to the point that he can not have a single reasonable idea.
  
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  October 18, 2024 3:37pm
alphabeatrium

Hang on, you don’t have to be a Hitler apologist to admit to the low bar of “some good ideas”. I can’t really name any, because I’m not a socialist or a fascist, but if you’re in favour of the industrial nationalisation and state monopolies (KiwiRail? NZ Post?) then you’re probably in favour of Volkswagen:

“In 1934, with many of the above projects still in development or early stages of production, Adolf Hitler became involved, ordering the production of a basic vehicle capable of transporting two adults and three children at 100 km/h (62 mph). He wanted a car every German family would be able to afford.[6] The “People’s Car” would be available through a savings plan at 990 ℛ︁ℳ︁ (US$396 in 1938)—about the price of a small motorcycle (the average income being around 32 ℛ︁ℳ︁ a week)” (Wikipedia)

Not everything Hitler did was aimed at genocide, but yes he was genocidal and objectively evil.
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October 18, 2024 2:15pm
- RoboRob
  
  Lol I litterally just listed VW as a good idea, didnt see your post. Im not into Nationalism per sae but the VW was a good idea at the time.
  
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  October 18, 2024 3:05pm
Simon

Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.

https://x.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1830652074746409246

Good and mild interview on WW2. The narrative around WW2 is changing. Especially in the UK – a country that no longer looks like it won WW2.

There is also Peter Hitchens book The Phoney Victory. Another mainstream.

Hitler was “evil”, the holocaust happened but now serious question marks over UK’s involvement in the war in Europe and the outcome. UK should have remained neutral.
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October 18, 2024 2:21pm
youcanthandlethetruth

Some of these seem OK to me.
1.Autobahn network
2.Volkswagen Beetle development
3.Anti-smoking campaigns
4.Public health initiatives
5.Improved workplace standards
6.Affordable leisure programs
7.Employment-boosting policies
8.Physical fitness promotion
9.Animal welfare laws
10.Environmental conservation efforts
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October 18, 2024 2:21pm
Quoich

There may not be a lot that the Nazis wanted that I would support, but to suggest everything they wanted was wrong by definition is a bit silly. Opposing decent pension provision for the elderly simply on the basis that the Nazis supported it would not be sensible.
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October 18, 2024 2:22pm
James Stephenson

He was strategically inept, which from the POV of someone whose parents were born during the Blitz, is definitely a positive.
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October 18, 2024 2:31pm
JimBobJoe

If you look at his road building record then many would be envious!

An obviously evil man and ideology – nasty, brutal and destructive just like its twin Soviet Communism.

But a person can say that man got some things right – shaking of punitive and utterly unnecessary war reparations being an example.

His ideologies race policies were evil, the totalitarian, one Party state was evil. But evil does the odd thing right by chance

Having said that under 30’s seem woefully ignorant of the evils of totalitarianism be it Fascist or Communist. Which is really concerning…
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October 18, 2024 2:31pm
- David Garrett
  
  Jimbob: the autobahns are often – quite wrongly – attributed to Adolf (terrible sentence but i can’t be bothered re-writing it on my phone). The autobahns were beginning to be built – or were at least planned – before the Nazis took power in 1933
  
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  October 18, 2024 3:24pm
mw

I was listening to a podcast and they briefly covered this poll while wondering if current US politics, democrats and MSM had a part in this.
The summary is that if you call Trump hitler enough, you keep comparing him to hitler all the time yet the people don’t think Trump is bad then perhaps there is some sort of softening on the view of hitler?
Of course no one is thinking hitler was a good guy but if you compare some things Trump does to hitler in a stupid and wrong way and people are ok with what Trump is doing then maybe they think some of what hitler did was ok too – obviously not the bad stuff which I shouldn’t have to qualify here.
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October 18, 2024 2:34pm
kglm

Is it possible to believe that Hitler was evil but had some good ideas (e.g. related to the economic rebuilding of Germany in the 1930’s)? Or is it just a binary choice?
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October 18, 2024 2:38pm
JackRabbit

The poll was rigged.

You could run the same poll for anyone evil in the world, and you would never get 0% asking if XYZ had some good ideas.

It is far more important to get said “likers” to write down what those ‘good’ ideas are, and how they have enhanced the public’s right to life, liberty and the fruits of their labour.

Q: “Does Kamala (or Ardern) have good ideas?”
A: “Yup.”
Q: “What are they?
A: “Dunno.”
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October 18, 2024 2:42pm
gazzmaniac

It’s not black and white. On balance Hitler was evil, but it is not correct to say he had no redeeming features. He built a lot of German infrastructure pre war, got his country out of the Great Depression, and reunited the German speaking people of Europe. His actions after that were abhorrent, but he did do a little good. Stalin and Mao were worse monsters than Hitler.

Just like Churchill, Roosevelt, and Truman weren’t saints either. Overall they did good but Churchill authorised the bombing of Dresden, all did internment camps for civilians, and Truman nuked two Japanese cities with massive civilian casualties.
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October 18, 2024 2:57pm
- David Garrett
  
  There would have been up to 5 million civilian casualties if the A bombs had not been dropped…and up to 1 million American casualties if they had to invade the home islands. In short the decision to drop the bombs was the most justifiable decision of the War…perhaps any war
  
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  October 18, 2024 3:28pm
mandk

Stupid question.

Are being evil and having some good ideas mutually exclusive?
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October 18, 2024 3:03pm
RoboRob

Not really Scary.

If I was answering that survey I too would say Hitler had some good ideas!!!!!!!!

One that springs to mind was the volkswagon. A cheap car for the people that would reliably start in sub zero temperatures.

Saying he had at least one good idea doesn’t mean you approve of Hitler. Stupid survey question.
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October 18, 2024 3:04pm
Henry Filth

The headline’s defective.

There’s a difference between “no redeeming features” and “some good ideas”.
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October 18, 2024 3:11pm
Kiwiladdy

If this poll was taken in a western country, the younger skews can be very easily explained by certain demographics of immigrants who are known for following and supporting a religion which is mostly interested in the total destruction of Jews.
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October 18, 2024 3:15pm
Rumblestrip

I have to make the logically obvious point: some of Hitler’s ideas would have been good, in a trivial and banal way. “Make the trains run on time” is a classic example. Hitler was voted into power in 1933, and it wasn’t because Germans suddenly decided they loved evil, or foresaw the horrors of the holocaust.

I suggest we shouldn’t completely demonise Hitler or the Nazis, and suggest they did nothing but scheme evil all day long, because that attitude prevents us from picking up on the fact that most Nazis were in fact boring, everyday humans exactly like us.

That is the key point: Nazis were not demons, they were us. And that is a hell of a lot more horrifying. By demonising them we miss a key message, that under the right circumstances, with the right conditioning, a good person can become a “Nazi” and we need to be eternally vigilant against that possibility.
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October 18, 2024 3:48pm
Inandout

Gosh, as a child I remember my Granny saying ‘Hitler had some good ideas, but he went off the tracks with his bad ideas’. That attitude was not unknown back then but I very much doubt she had ever heard of (less read) ‘The Scourge of the Swastika’. It is a crazy world and in the early 30s Hitler was backed by some German Jewish industrialists because of his anti communist views and actions. Of course this didn’t last long when the true meaning of Nazism became apparent. Had Hitler been killed in the 1944 bombing I think Germany would have arrived at an understanding with the Allies. The cult of Nazism of course would have survived as witnessed by the South American enclaves of German ex pats who escaped in 1945.
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October 18, 2024 3:55pm

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