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October 28, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 28 October 2024

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General Debate

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Yvette

The latest muddying of the Treaty waters –

… William Colenso wrote out an undertaking in te reo Māori and English that was read out to the assembled rangatira:
“E mea ana te Kawana, ko nga whakapono katoa, o Ingarani, o nga Weteriana, o Roma me te ritenga Maori hoki, e tiakina ngatahitia e ia.” (The Governor says the several faiths of England, of the Wesleyans, of Rome, and also the Māori custom, shall alike be protected by him.)

… for the Māori who signed the Treaty it was an oral undertaking. (It was not read by them, but read out to them.) Further, they point out that an oral contract is equally binding. Therefore this other undertaking, which was also read to them, should have equal status and should be included within our understanding of the Treaty. …

“They heard the Treaty, the preamble, articles one, two and three,” says Reese. “They didn’t read it. They heard it, and then they heard this, and they responded with their tohu or their signatures as a response of what they heard.” …
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/thehouse/532013/treaty-of-waitangi-addition-petitioned-at-parliament

Either as an oral contract or written, can religion in any form be preserved as a taonga, if one of those religious worldviews, practices or its beliefs, be raised to predominance over, or exclusion of the others – as in Pharmacy or realestate union doctrines, updated prosecution guidelines or health practices, civil defence, New Zealand on Air funding or water regulation and services?
And, rather than protection, is not predominance of one religious view a form of –

Aryanism – an ideology of German racial supremacy which views the supposed Aryan race as a distinct and superior racial group which is entitled to rule the rest of humanity.

– the similar treatment now being of te Ao o Maori – the Mari religious worldview – in Government public services and among social sycophants, those behaving in an obsequious way in order to gain advantage

For this, and in observance of the UN Declaration of Human Rights, Government should be utterly secular
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October 28, 2024 8:03am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  It’ll be a foot in the door for enshrining Christianity into our Constitution.
  
  Queen Vic ruled over an Empire that contained Jews, Hindus, Moslems, Christians, Buddhists, Daoists, Animists, Sikhs, Jains.
  
  Did she (British Crown) sign any Treaty that excluded religions other than Christianity?
  
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  October 28, 2024 9:44am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    That ship has sailed, Maggy. I doubt that any of the Christian religions aspire to be the established faith of NZ, or Aotearoa for that matter.
    
    In any case, I would interpret that Article to mean that no one should be persecuted for being of a particular faith, which is entirely within the ambit of the Bill of Rights, and hardly controversial.
    
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    October 28, 2024 10:50am
- PurplePen
  
  Can someone explain what he meant by “protected”. And then how is that manifest when applied to religion and also Maori customs.
  
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  October 28, 2024 11:20am
Simon

Wash Post not endorsing Harris over Orange Man extreme Hitler is hilarious. Suppose Amazon will be up for some huge Govt contracts in Trumps next term.

Shitlibs losing it is delicious. Trump keeps breaking their fragile minds.
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October 28, 2024 8:06am
Michael Sommerville

I let my subscription to the NZHerald expire. I haven’t missed it really. Now all I have to do is get my wife to stop watching TVNZ news immediately after the Chase.
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October 28, 2024 8:20am
- pdm
  
  MS said – `I haven’t missed it really. Now all I have to do is get my wife to stop watching TVNZ news immediately after the Chase.’
  
  Mission impossible?
  
  We watch TVNZ news out of habit (54 plus years of habit) but, buggered if I can persuade mrspdm to stop watching the imbecilic nonsense that is called 7 Sharp.
  
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  October 28, 2024 9:49am
- PurplePen
  
  I watch the chase, well stream it. The news doesn’t then automatically follow. Have tried watching TVNZ news even TV3 when it was going but both just so much fluff and then there’s the Manglish and all that is happening in that fictional place they keep mentioning, Aotearoa.
  
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  October 28, 2024 11:23am
- Flossie
  
  I did not bother to renew my subscription to NZ Herald earlier this year. Likewise haven’t missed it. I occasionally do watch NZ TV news (both lots equally bad) when there’s something of particular interest possible being aired.
  
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  October 28, 2024 11:36am
- Damocles11
  
  Well done. Now advertisers just need to follow suit. The property industry bankrolling the Herald via ‘OneRoof’ is one of the great own goals of our time. The Herald increasingly champions racial separatism and socialism, movements which undermine democracy and private property rights in this country & will see many more New Zealanders fleeing across the Tasman.
  
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  October 28, 2024 1:39pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Tribal Rule is Closer Than You Think.
Part 3. Video 14 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4xprZKoMzw
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October 28, 2024 8:21am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  Anyone who wants to carry out research on DOC land is already subject to tribal rule. Nothing can happen without iwi consent, which usually means delays of “4-7 months” (according to DOC website) but sometimes a year or more.
  
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  October 28, 2024 9:33am
  - artemisia
    
    Remember Bob Jones? Needed RMA approval to change a shop window in one of his buildings and needed agreement from 13 iwi. Not free.
    
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    October 28, 2024 9:45am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I think that shop was in Queen St, Auckland City.
      It was near a Maori heritage site where Maori used to meet.
      How childish.
      
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      October 28, 2024 10:06am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Boil it all down and it appears some part Maori have decided (approx 200 years too late) to be butt hurt about people who don’t look like them being in positions superior to their own. So they want to force this childish and irrational stuff (which I doubt most of them even believe in) on everybody else in order to beat their chests and declare “their people” in charge.
        
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        October 28, 2024 6:37pm
Cassandra

Go to downtoearthkiwi for an interesting prediction re the next election. Prof Rob MacCulloch thinks that the Labour party’s election policy will be “rebuild the public services” funded by taxing the rich. Presumably the rebuild will include hiring a whole lot of staff and allowing them to work at home. That should be “work”. And of course a whole lot of presents for Maoris although that won’t be announced before the election.
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October 28, 2024 8:24am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  “Rebuild the public services…”
  
  yeah,right
  
  In 6 years Labour increased the no of public servants by approx 18000 / 40% with no significant improvement in services. In June 2024 there were still more public servants employed than June 2023 as the token virtue signalling reductions by National didn’t even cull Labours outrageous stacking the bureaucracy with its acolytes in the 6m before the election.
  
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  October 28, 2024 8:30am
- fernglas
  
  The heart of his analysis is that New Zealand, whether it be left or right, is still in thrall to the UK and will follow what happens there without considering whether it is suitable or relevant to a different country on the other side of the world. So whatever Starmer does in the upcoming budget will suddenly become Labour’s policy for the next election. That would be fine if the ideas that were being adopted were good ones. But they are usually bad, and for some reason New Zealand thinks it can do them better. Good luck, guys. There is a lot of shit policy about to come from the UK and you will be on the receiving end.
  
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  October 28, 2024 8:33am
  - thirteenstars
    
    It’s true, and two great waves of post-war British emigration to NZ contributed mightily to it, one in the 50s and 60s and the other quite recently. They formed much of the militant union movement and a lot of the bureaucracy.
    
    Reminds me of the Blue State exiles that escape California and New York and head for Texas and Florida only to continue voting for the policies they are running from.
    
    Say what you like about the recent influx of migrants but the Indians and such are hard workers, aspire to be business owners and value family and stability.
    
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    October 28, 2024 11:09am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Presumably the rebuild will include hiring a whole lot of staff and allowing them to work at home. That should be “work”.”
  
  You are perpetuating the falsehood that people cannot work effectivity at home, with the right set up and technology. You want to know who does not “work”? The thousands of surplus public servants in crowded, noisy Wellington offices, playing the fool, shouting, going out for coffee, and hopelessly distracting people who actually want to work.
  
  The only place you can do serious work is at home. I wish I was joking.
  
  I am not expressing some esoteric point. I am stating facts. It is impossible to undertake serious work in most public service offices without the aid of noise cancelling headphones and white noise. The offices are to catch up with colleagues, to attend large, or complex meetings, which are difficult to do online, and to sing waiata.
  
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  October 28, 2024 8:49am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Sounds like a management problem to me, Benedict.
    
    But, are there no quiet spaces in the offices you work in?
    
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    October 28, 2024 8:58am
    - sirknz
      
      If you’re below C level, or not an HR goblin, you have to sit in an open plan office ‘for teamwork and cross functional teams’ bullshit.
      
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      October 28, 2024 10:44am
  - Spam
    
    Do those people who are useless and waste time at the office work effectively when they are at home?
    
    I get your point, but theoretically the office environment provides supervision. I guess the poor supervision is another failure of the public service.
    
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    October 28, 2024 8:59am
    - Matt Long
      
      If they’re not performing effective work and disrupting the office, it’s better they’re slacking from home, IF the government MUST employ unnecessary white collar workers as the modern equivalent of mid 20th century railways job creation.
      And for people like BY who work best from home it’s win/win.
      I’m looking forward to Musk effectively transforming the US public service and the New Zealand government getting pointers.
      
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      October 28, 2024 9:15am
      - JackRabbit
        
        If they’re not performing effective work and disrupting the office, it’s better they’re slacking from home…
        
        I strongly disagree. During 6 years of Marxism, all sorts of people were funded from the $100Bn they printed and borrowed.
        
        People were “working from home” on projects to bring down democracy, formulate hate speech narratives, be fact checkers, monitor and attack people on social media, etc, all the while “employed” in a govt dept or research unit. Had these people been in the office, even staunch Labour types would have been horrified about what their colleagues were working on.
        
        These covert projects were another benefit of lockdown and working from home.
        
        Do you really think that given all the tyranny our Marxist govt stooped to, with no ethical boundaries, would draw an ethical boundary around getting all those new tens of thousands of employees, hired to expand Marxist ideals, and not have them work from home to hide the nature or their Marxist activities?
        
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        October 28, 2024 1:02pm
  - rouppe
    
    You may be right that people serious about their job may be able to work more effectively at home due to the distractions you mention.
    
    However the existence of those distractions demonstrates that wholesale working from home allows those same people to do even less apparent work.
    
    If ~~leaders~~ managers focused on demanding deliverables, there’d be fewer of those distractions, the deadweight might find working too hard and leave, and you would not need to be away from your workplace in order to work.
    
    As an aside I’d contest that working from home is more productive where the work is team based, requiring collaboration. I’m thinking more about my previous job where a team of developers, BA’s and testers worked together to deliver functional change. Working from home generally increased the hand-off’s compared with immediate, in-person interaction when at the office.
    
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    October 28, 2024 9:06am
    - artemisia
      
      Random question – why are the managers not, umm, managing?
      
      Nobody watching the watchers? How’s that woking. (Sp intentional.)
      
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      October 28, 2024 9:32am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Managers are in on the game, from the top down.
        
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        October 28, 2024 10:13am
      - Burtland
        
        theres been a major culture shift in offices in an attempt to accommodate a generation thats grown up spoilt and entitled …. genZ etc
        
        its about creating an office family – mental wellness, group activities, free lunch etc etc
        
        peoples lives used to be defined outside the office – for many now their life IS what happens at work – office life needs to be exciting
        
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        October 28, 2024 11:25am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        For fear of “offending” the weak links, who will rush off to HR to complain that their feelings are hurt, and they need to go on stress related leave.
        
        No joke, this is career ending stuff for managers subjected to the HR witch hunt.
        
        Safer to keep your head down, and ignore the entitled disruptive place-fillers.
        
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        October 28, 2024 1:01pm
    - pdm
      
      Farmers work from home and 99% of them are productive most days.
      
      If they weren’t we would all starve.
      
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      October 28, 2024 9:55am
      - rouppe
        
        Sure. Not my, or Benedict’s world.
        
        And largely solitary, not team based. And strictly speaking not at home, that would be your homestead, not the acres of farmland. Even though I know you consider that your home as well.
        
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        October 28, 2024 10:01am
      - Quail
        
        Real responsibility —- work or go broke.
        There used to be a mantra “ run fast to stand still”
        Unfortunately too many sheep and beef farmers have not been fast enough.
        Land use change in NZ has been immense. Now Carbon farming ,forestry etc has and is replacing the once world leading farming industries .
        From >70 m sheep to about 20 m.Freezing works closing and a wool industry that is plainly imploding. Add in the RMA and rapacious regulation pastoral farming has quite frankly been abused.
        Then take a look at NZs failing balance of payments and after that our clever Governments who spend and spend money they don’t have , in the process creating the inflation that has now largely destroyed the once iconic NZ pastoral farming industry!
        
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        October 28, 2024 4:00pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Hi Benedict
    
    On a completely different track, based on your comments here in recent months about our GHG emission gap in 2030 and the resulting costs I’ve been investigating a little further with documents from Min Env, Treasury and Stats and came up with my own estimates in a post over at No Minister that I’d like you to take a look at, Paying The Danegeld – For Cooler Temperatures:
    
    We are 40% through the decade and 62% through our limit. To hit our 2030 target we’d have to be emitting no more than 42.2 Mt C02e per year starting now. As Sir Humphrey once said, these are heroic assumptions.
    …
    My estimate, assuming we can cut the emissions by 5% per year from here on, is a gap of 148.7 Mt, meaning a cost of $33.75 billion some time after 2030, if we have to buy from other developed nations.
    
    Thanks in advance (the past emissions numbers themselves seem a little slippery depending on which NZ stats report I read).
    
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    October 28, 2024 9:09am
    - Burtland
      
      CO2 is Guterres’ red herring to send the west bankrupt
      – did anyone price it out
      Shaw certainly didnt, what about Carr, Leining, Renwick?
      
      Paying money to developing countries to fix rising global CO2 and temperature is seriously deluded thinking.
      
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      October 28, 2024 12:07pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        The justification: “Lot’s of other leaders we trade with have lost their minds and their integrity over this topic, so we better follow suit!”
        
        Don’t!
        
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        October 28, 2024 6:26pm
  - Media hater
    
    Extremely disappointing BY, that you have forgotten about the opening and closing Karakia at every single pointless meeting,haha.
    
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    October 28, 2024 9:13am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Unfortunately, WFH doesn’t mean workers are spared karakia or whakatauki, as these are now a regular feature of Zoom/Teams meetings (at my wokeplace, at least).
      
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      October 28, 2024 9:41am
      - AitchW
        
        Can you leave your desk and make a cup of tea during karakia? As long as your camera and speakers are on, you can hear when to return?
        
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        October 28, 2024 9:50am
  - Cassandra
    
    Ben: I’ve managed people working from home. I’m also a client. Some people do it well. Many don’t. The solution should include changing the setup you describe.
    
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    October 28, 2024 9:16am
    - rouppe
      
      And actually, on the flip side, do we want our office spaces to be silent, dour, morgues?
      
      The 4 story building I was in was fitted out with the good old hot dressing a few years ago. Level 1 was designated the silent floor, level 2 murmuring, up to level 4, the “noisy” floor. The one our project was on.
      
      Some woman came up to level 4, and then proceeded to shush us all.
      
      We told her to fuck off.
      
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      October 28, 2024 10:14am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I vote for more hot dressing. 😛
        
        Not sure the HR goblins would allow it though.
        
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        October 28, 2024 5:37pm
  - Nukuleka
    
    Your experience of the public service, Ben, suggests that little has changed since Roger Hall wrote his play ‘Glide Time’ back in the 70s- except that they hadn’t discovered the delights of waiata and karakia back then. I doubt that TVNZ would get away these days with producing the highly successful tv series ‘Gliding On’, parodying the endless morning cuppas, extended lunch hours and general laxity of our kiwi public servants. Imagine the outrage from the PSA wokesters!
    
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    October 28, 2024 9:16am
    - pdm
      
      Nuku.
      Phone calls from `mum’.
      Studying the Turf Digest
      Endless pontificating on irrelevancies.
      etc etc etc.
      
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      October 28, 2024 9:59am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Waiting for the tea trolly – heh!
        
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        October 28, 2024 10:56am
      - Ra Henare
        
        In the early 70s I worked for the Ministry of defence, Porirua. (Civilians)
        
        Open-plan offices, but not large. The biggest office was around 8 people.
        
        It worked well, but maybe because the “”boss”” was a crusty old army Colonel. Who allowed laughter and chat, but not to the detriment of getting the job done.
        
        and yes the Tea lady was a focal point of knowledge as to what was happening “”socially””
        
        All of us programmers used to work at the office during the day and “”at home”” in the evenings.
        
        A good mix of information exchange and personal productivity.
        
        My point. A good mix of office and home would seem to be a great solution.
        
        Ahhhhh the good old days.
        
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        October 28, 2024 2:55pm
  - Hollyfield
    
    Here’s the other side of working from home:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13938547/I-work-home-boss-doesnt-know-Ive-juggling-two-jobs-company-time-past-three-years-Heres-away-it.html
    This woman works full time, plus has a second paid job that she does within the same hours, plus runs a business from home which she also does within the same hours.
    
    I have no doubt, Benedict, that you work very diligently from home, and I agree with you about the distraction caused by noisy colleagues and unenforced policies around taking extended phone calls or meetings in the rooms specifically provided for this purpose.
    
    But equally I have worked with people who very blatantly use the working from home provisions to not work. There are certain people (who no longer are in employment at my company) who we knew to never bother contacting on a Friday, or any afternoon, because they would not answer their phone or reply to phone messages or email. Working from home should be reserved as a privilege for those who have demonstrated they do actually work from home, and not as a blanket right.
    
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    October 28, 2024 9:53am
  - Anthony Melchett
    
    Some people can work effectively from home, but the way they act in an office is an excellent indication of their productivity at home.
    
    The main issue with office work now is open plan offices with couches and cafes so green hairs and anxious 20 year old men in dresses feel safe, along with management that are ill equipped to manage and set standards.
    
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    October 28, 2024 10:04am
  - Taieri
    
    You are perpetuating the falsehood that people cannot work effectivity at home, with the right set up and technology.
    ————
    
    This is immaterial.
    The bottom line is, the employee doesn’t decide whether he/she will work from home or in the office. The organization of work system is an exclusive privilege of employer. If the potential or existing employee doesn’t like it they can quit.
    
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    October 28, 2024 10:24am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Exactly the Elon Musk approach. If you prefer working at home to working at the office then we can arrange that on a permanent basis.
      
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      October 28, 2024 10:58am
  - PurplePen
    
    No reason you can’t have a quiet office. I blame management of course. 25 years ago we had quiet mornings. No meetings, no phone calls allowed, no popping round to someone’s desk until morning tea. Exceptions allowed for dealings with externals such as clients or contractors.
    
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    October 28, 2024 11:29am
    - Paulus
      
      In a Wellington Company some years ago we started punctually at 8.30 am and there was a total silent time until 10.00 am.
      One person on switchboard handled all calls during that time.
      Worked very well..
      
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      October 28, 2024 2:07pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I wasn’t offended..
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/labour-mp-ginny-andersen-reshares-king-charles-christopher-luxon-quip-on-instagram/JJODWEBI6RABFF65SXSTU3GZLE/

Just puzzled as to why Ginny Anderson thought it was funny to mock a cancer patient in ill-fitting clothes.

And I do wonder if the feminist revolution passed her by. I know Helen Clark wasn’t impressed by her minister referring to women as “front bums”, and it seems that Ginny might have a hang-up about the hang-downs of a vulva.

Perhaps she could swat up about the purpose of the external structures of the female genitalia.
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October 28, 2024 8:25am
- Positan
  
  I used to think that all of Ginny Anderson’s taste was in her mouth.
  I was mistaken – it’s completely lacking in that place as well.
  
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  October 28, 2024 8:34am
- Souvlaki
  
  She’s as thick as two short planks….thats the problem. Add to that ,being basically nasty person on her best days…and Voilá! Nous avons Ginny Anderson!😄
  
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  October 28, 2024 8:37am
- Philview
  
  When she was Minister of Police she said something like ‘prison is no place for Maoris’. On one level it is concerning she believes in a 2 tier judicicial system but on another level she is very patronising to Maoris.
  
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  October 28, 2024 8:43am
- AitchW
  
  I saw a post regarding this on Facebook. Labour supporters writing it off because Andrew Bayley.
  
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  October 28, 2024 8:58am
- nathie
  
  Yet another example of inappropriate conduct from Ginny Andersen.
  
  Lucky she isn’t a National/ACT/NZF MP otherwise the MSM would be putting significant heat on herself and her leader questioning her judgment and demanding to know whether she should continue as a MP or at least be demoted/have portfolios removed from her.
  
  After all in her haste to smear Luxon she offended King Charles who is the Head of State of NZ!
  
  Can Labour leader Chris Hipkins see the bigger picture here?
  
  How long before she does something “stupid” again, offers a weak apology and gets off scot-free?
  
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  October 28, 2024 8:59am
- rouppe
  
  The clothes were loose because it was hot. The clothes looked ill fitting because it was windy.
  
  Ginny goes on and on about how nasty other people are, and in fact had just finished making hay over the Andrew Bayly mess. Then goes and does that.
  
  And notice her apology: I apologise “for any offence caused”, not for “the offence I caused”
  
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  October 28, 2024 9:11am
  - David Garrett
    
    rouppe: The clothes were loose because it was hot. The clothes looked ill fitting because it was windy.
    Exactly. It may well have been Luxon’s first time in Samoa; if so, he won’t be wearing a woolen suit next time!
    
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    October 28, 2024 10:00am
- artemisia
  
  Prediction – that snipe will follow Ginny Andersen. Like the other stupidity you mentioned, Maggy. Maybe folk will be too polite to refer to it but it will still be stapled to her name.
  
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  October 28, 2024 9:27am
- David Garrett
  
  Maggy: I remain very puzzled by that so called “meme” – even after I saw the “translation” on some site.
  
  And without wishing to boast, back in the day I had a fairly wide acquaintance with the variety of intimate female anatomy. (Many years ago now of course)
  
  All I see is a man in a lightweight suit – very sensible in Samoa – whose trousers are blown by the breeze against his legs. Luxon’s suit is obviously made of wool…perhaps it’s his first time in the steamy land 500 miles north of Tonga.
  
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  October 28, 2024 9:50am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  How old is she? 7?
  
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  October 28, 2024 10:17am
  - Lance
    
    I believe 7 year olds would look down upon her immaturity and shake their heads
    
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    October 28, 2024 10:29am
- sirknz
  
  Let’s just remember this one for the next time one of those lefty women MPs goes on about the ‘muh soggy knee’ comments they receive from men, the ones that they never release or share as evidence but use as an excuse for their poor performance & bad behaviour.
  
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  October 28, 2024 10:55am
- AitchW
  
  I wasn’t offended either. I was appalled that a woman who aspires to a cabinet position could show such profound disrespect to a man to whom she has sworn allegiance.
  That sort of mean girl ridicule would be puerile regardless of who it was directed at. For her to direct it toward our head of state is unthinkable.
  Sadly her party leader lacks the will to discipline her.
  
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  October 28, 2024 10:57am
- Hugh Jarse
  
  Ginny “how many people have you killed Mark ?” Anderson, the pride of the Labour Party. Her continuing errors of judgement make you realise that she is not just accident prone, she is just plain thick and nasty.
  
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  October 28, 2024 11:30am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Maggy Wassilieff “hang-downs of a vulva.”
  
  Want to walk us through that one? 😄
  
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  October 28, 2024 5:39pm
Taieri

The Grim Reaper is coming for you again…

At least, according to Professor Baker:

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/warning-summer-wave-covid-19-approaching
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October 28, 2024 8:34am
- imalwaysright
  
  From article:
  “Baker added the booster shots were continuing to provide reasonable protection against infection, hospitalisation, death, long Covid – as well as improve outcomes in pregnancy – even with the new XEC subvariant.”
  
  He must have access to extremely good data and data analysts.
  I would particularly like to see his data confirming the existence of “long covid”, and the evidence that the symptoms of “long covid” aren’t caused by the jab.
  
  His claim that the jab “improves outcomes in pregnancy” would be a great opening line for the prosecution.
  
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  October 28, 2024 9:47am
  - Flossie
    
    I’m obviously in the Control Group i.e. those not jabbed.
    I’m reporting no illness, infection, hospitalization, long covid, and also no death.
    
    21 1
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    October 28, 2024 10:10am
    - imalwaysright
      
      F
      Same here.
      
      Also, since when has it been legal for an epidemiologist to give medical advice ?
      
      20 1
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      October 28, 2024 10:15am
- wisteria
  
  Why would we believe Michael baker a second time. He got a lot wrong last time. He said that masks were not effective and then changed his mind as the lockdowns continued.
  
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  October 28, 2024 9:58am
  - David Garrett
    
    wisteria: Indeed. I recall Bloomfield saying “wear a mask if you want to; it won’t make much difference”. Very quickly that morphed into “masks save lives”, and then the compulsory wearing of them in many locations.
    
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    October 28, 2024 10:45am
    - Gussy Fink-Nottle
      
      Another Covid lie.
      Masks weren’t entirely ineffective.
      We just didn’t have enough of them at the time.
      When inventories increased sufficiently, we were compelled to wear them.
      
      7 5
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      October 28, 2024 11:26am
      - Anthony Melchett
        
        Which masks did anything?
        
        6 1
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        October 28, 2024 1:00pm
      - Gussy Fink-Nottle
        
        Re mask efficacy – a reasonable model (e.g. N95 ) will attenuate the dispersal of vapour/droplets from infected people.
        Sure, pathogens can get through, just not as easily.
        
        3 0
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        October 28, 2024 2:48pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        There is a PhD guy in the US who specialises in safety equipment. He did tests on standard blue “nurse masks” and N95 masks. He glued the masks to the faces of respiratory test dummies.
        
        Blue nurse masks 3% effective in stopping the virus getting through.
        
        N95 40% effective in stopping the virus getting through.
        
        Most people wore the blue masks or something even more inferior (EG some garbage from the $2 shop)!
        
        Yep, largely a pointless exercise in pissing people off in an already f…..d up time for no good reason.
        
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        October 28, 2024 5:48pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        The masks were to identify the compliant, and, by default, to also identify the non compliant.
        I didn’t wear one, except in hospitals where there were people with immunity problems and I didn’t want to add to their stress.
        
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        October 28, 2024 8:15pm
- pdm
  
  Like rust Baker does not sleep.
  
  More irrelevant publicity is him living his dream.
  
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  October 28, 2024 10:03am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Im 99% sure Michael Baker is one of the undead.
    
    9 1
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    October 28, 2024 10:40am
Matt Long

Fortunately there’s no cheating or illegal voting in US elections.
https://youtube.com/shorts/_XNxFGZpflo?si=BBAr1kz6af91x9Vw
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1850438280430457011
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October 28, 2024 8:35am
- All_on_Red
  
  ‘Prosecutors in Lancaster County said Friday they had uncovered a large-scale scheme to submit fraudulent voter applications that were collected at shopping malls and other locations. Lancaster County District Attorney Heather Adams told a news conference that detectives have found about 60% of some 2,500 voter registrations submitted in recent days to the county’s election office were fraudulent.
  
  “At this point, it is believed that the fraudulent voter registrations are connected to a large-scale canvassing operation for voter registrations that date back to June,” Adams said.’
  https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/3-yrs-after-fbi-received-voter-registration-fraud-evidence-new-scheme
  Good that they caught them though
  
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  October 28, 2024 8:56am
  - Dougal10
    
    Maybe just maybe law enforcement realised they couldn’t do anything about previous fraud but by saying there was none last time they have suckered the cheats into trying again this time while they are being watched.
    
    12 3
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    October 28, 2024 9:08am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Doing a quick google search I am surprised to find that a lot of left leaning MSM are actually reporting on that story. Maybe they can sense the sea-change occurring.
    
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    October 28, 2024 9:10am
  - rouppe
    
    If anyone thinks that Lancaster County is the only place that’s happened, I have a bridge to sell you.
    
    17 2
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    October 28, 2024 9:12am
    - AitchW
      
      No matter who wins the American election (oh, that it were over sooner) the loser will scream fraud from the rooftops. The left will riot if it loses, January 6th will be a Sunday school picnic by comparison.
      
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      October 28, 2024 9:55am
      - NothingLeft
        
        And they’ll clearly be correct.
        
        Noone would risk organizing a fraud on this scale unless it was electorally impactful, and this is clearly not the first time it’s been done – Democrats have been altering voting laws and procedures for decades to make it easier. Methods and infrastructure to do it are long established
        
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        October 28, 2024 11:00am
  - NothingLeft
    
    In nearby Luzerne count a similarly large batch of ballots dated back to June (As was the case with the Lancaster country fraud) was dropped just before deadline by democrat Beth McBride, who was the acting Director of Elections when Luzerne County ran out of paper on Election Day in 2022 – ie an insider with access to enable voting fraud
    
    That’s two counties where watchers have managed to identify the fraudulent applications, but it’ll be just the tip of the iceberg – and will be across many battleground states.
    
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    October 28, 2024 4:17pm
Matt Long

Racist White Supremacists show hate slogans in violent far right protests.
https://x.com/Wokewaster/status/1850174999044272358
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October 28, 2024 8:37am
Bridgenag

Sunday Strip: You Know Who Else Drinks Water?
Spooky stuff today…

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/sunday-strip-you-know-who-else-drinks?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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October 28, 2024 8:37am
Bridgenag

German Vice-Chancellor Robert Habeck calls for a comprehensive internet censorship programme to stop people disagreeing with him

https://open.substack.com/pub/eugyppius/p/german-vice-chancellor-robert-habeck?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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October 28, 2024 8:39am
- imalwaysright
  
  Bridgenag
  
  If he wants to censor the internet then it shouldn’t take too long- has anyone noticed that it seems to be shrinking?
  
  Lots of duplicate sites and 404 pages etc and a relatively small number of results pages compared with a few years ago.
  
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  October 28, 2024 10:08am
Maggy Wassilieff

Does Ashley Bloomfield really think lockdowns are the solution to a covid-type pandemic?

https://www.downtoearth.kiwi/post/a-three-minute-covid-enquiry
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October 28, 2024 8:53am
- Anthony Melchett
  
  The other thing that would help with a pandemic is him serving jail time.
  
  This is of course a guy so out of his depth, he thought you could catch covid off a lift button
  
  28 1
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  October 28, 2024 9:00am
  - David Garrett
    
    Anthony: To be fair, very little was known about this virus in the early days…remember supermarkets being closed for “deep cleaning”? (Whatever that meant).
    
    My first wife nursed the first AIDS patient to come home from New York to die. They all wore “space suit” type protection, because no-one was sure how it spread.
    
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    October 28, 2024 10:06am
    - Keith White
      
      David, those of us paying attention already knew (from recent SARS and virology over decades and how to clean planes and hotels after Legionnaires and Norwalk virus and just how long it takes to test a vaccine to be sure it works and saves and protects many orders of magnitude more people than it damages and kills…) that the Ardern-Bloomfield overkill (in both senses of the work) was stupid and deadly.
      –
      
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      October 28, 2024 10:16am
    - Anthony Melchett
      
      DG, that was in August 2020, when the rest of world including anyone here who cared to research already knew it was transmitted by aerosols.
      
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      October 28, 2024 1:06pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Yes David fair enough in the first few months, maybe.
      
      Woke govts however were drawn into the gravitational pull of other censorious woke know-it-alls and censored/slandered mature and reasoned experts.
      
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      October 28, 2024 6:04pm
  - Keith White
    
    Remember that Bloomfield, in charge of NZ’s response to a public health infection challenge, specialised in non-communicable disease prevention .
    Yes, you read that right – non-communicable disease prevention.
    
    13 1
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    October 28, 2024 10:12am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I wonder whether [ Mod – use proper names] has ever read NZ’s pandemic plan.
  
  https://www.health.govt.nz/publications/new-zealand-pandemic-plan-a-framework-for-action
  
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  October 28, 2024 9:00am
- Dougal10
  
  He’s a WHO employee , of course he believes in lockdowns.
  
  14 1
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  October 28, 2024 9:10am
- rouppe
  
  Ashley Bloomfield has just described fascism.
  
  When the Left realises that socialism doesn’t work, they amplify it with violence.
  
  24 0
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  October 28, 2024 9:19am
- Keith White
  
  “Does Ashley Bloomfield really think…?”
  
  IMO No, he reads from the Tedros-Xi-WEF playbooks and struts and preens.
  
  11 1
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  October 28, 2024 10:10am
- imalwaysright
  
  It was a Panicdemic induced by the illusion of a pandemic.
  
  16 1
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  October 28, 2024 10:10am
  - Don Beckett
    
    So, A Scamdemic, then.
    
    15 1
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    October 28, 2024 11:14am
Scooter

I wonder if Ginny posted this on X to take the heat off Ayesha and her not so distant relative fiasco. But then we all know Ginny never really grew out of her mean girl bully teen years. Show some respect.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/labour-mp-ginny-andersen-reshares-king-charles-christopher-luxon-quip-on-instagram/
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October 28, 2024 8:59am
Matt Long

NZME thinks a Real Estate advertisment for aging journos is news.
‘Loved every minute’ Wendyl Nissen opens up on tough decision to leave Hokianga home https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/northland-writers-wendyl-nissen-and-paul-little-make-bloody-hard-decision-to-return-to-auckland/7RGKAH44W5HSBK6XFGABSBWFKU/
22 1
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October 28, 2024 9:17am
- David Garrett
  
  “The Hokianga is so healing…
  
  “So healing”…I thought only the young talked like that?
  
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  October 28, 2024 9:55am
  - Anthony Melchett
    
    And mentally unstable middle aged women.
    
    The dye your hair green and convince your sons to become daughters types.
    
    23 1
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    October 28, 2024 10:07am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Not the young, David, the immature. Not the same thing.
    
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    October 28, 2024 11:02am
- Inandout
  
  ML, I wonder how many burglaries they have experienced to urge their move?
  
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  October 28, 2024 10:00am
- kowtow
  
  The ODT has run a story about some folk winning an award for the “makeover” of the Dunedin main street .
  
  Months after running stories about how the wonderfulness of the redesign and works crucified the local retailers .
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/consultancy-wins-award-george-st-makeover
  
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  October 28, 2024 11:49am
John Loveridge

What a bunch of dreamers, spending an enormous amount of our money chasing a bullshit dream:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350452998/christchurch-shifts-goalpost-inner-city-living-target
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October 28, 2024 9:34am
- Eastlander
  
  CBD living gets old fast once you stop being a student. Especially so since KO turned so many apartment buildings into halfway houses during the quarantines and the number of ferals on the streets exploded. Liberal assholes think you should live in the inner city while their own policies help ensure that noone in their right mind would ever want to.
  
  Now anybody without a terminal case of 21st century-brain will ask just why the hell a city council thinks it has any business setting population targets for an area. Well, the LGA allows local authorities to make just about anything their business and until Parliament takes to it with a chainsaw they’ll continue doing so.
  
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  October 28, 2024 9:55am
- Inandout
  
  JL, those box apartments remind me of Hong Kong.
  
  8 0
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  October 28, 2024 10:03am
  - ChristopherW2
    
    In Tokyo, I used to feel sorry for the single people living in tiny ‘shoebox’ apartments in the suburbs – until I learnt how insanely cheap they are to rent! Cheaper than renting a room in a typical NZ city, and you have your own kitchen and bathroom.
    
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    October 28, 2024 12:19pm
- sherp
  
  So by 2028 there maybe the population levels in the CBD to justify the already built cycle lanes….
  
  8 1
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  October 28, 2024 10:34am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You realise that the vast majority of cyclists who use cycle lanes in the CBD do not live there. They are travelling to the CBD or through the CBD.
    
    8 2
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    October 28, 2024 1:04pm
  - Jack5
    
    Christchurch’s CBD is road spaghetti.
    
    A mix of one-way streets, ultra-slow speed limits, varying lanes for buses and cyclists versus cars.
    
    Plenty of pedestrians though: overseas tourists; criminals, cops, and lawyers hurrying to courts or the central police station; and car parks that require the payWave tithe ….
    
    Ballantyne’s is about all the CBD has for honest locals. Long may it survive.
    
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    October 28, 2024 8:30pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes it is insane. The Council wants to reduce emissions to ‘combat climate change’. It is not their business. The Council should be responding to what people CHOOSE to do with location decisions and transport modes. They should treat residents as customers for council services. Instead they regard residents as lab rats.
  
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  October 28, 2024 10:44am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Given that Christchurch experienced the earthquake; and given the ratcheting of NBS earthquake standards, it’s beyond me why anyone would buy an apartment there.
  
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  October 28, 2024 2:47pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hundreds of thousands ready to invade the US right after the Election.

https://conservativeadvocacy.com/bidens-border-scheme-kamalas-countdown-to-migrant-chaos-after-election-explodes/?
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October 28, 2024 10:59am
Swifty

“So, back in the day, this girl who would later become Māori queen always gathered her friends and cousins before heading to the dairy to buy lollies and she shared those lollies with everyone, said Simmonds, a Kīngitanga spokesman and Anglican priest, and speaking publicly at the latest kotahitanga hui, the sharer of an instructive secret.

“I’ve just described to you what an economic system underpinned by te ao Māori would look like.””

What, someone gets given something (how this thing gets created in the first place, and by whom, is conveniently left out) and hands it out to their mates?

Really? That’s it? That’s ‘a description of an economic system’ underpinned by Te Ao Maori?

My god, this man has just stumbled across something that has thus far eluded humanity for thousands of years!

Why haven’t we seen it before now! The man is a visionary! A seer! A giant among us mere mortals!

Joel Maxwell for Prime Minister!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360463733/joel-maxwell-we-can-learn-lot-maori-queens-little-secret-labour-day

(FFS – please make it stop.)
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October 28, 2024 11:01am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And does Joel stop to think for one minute why it was ONLY the little girl who got money from Granny?
  
  Couldn’t be because she was a member of the Tribal elite and the others weren’t, could it?
  
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  October 28, 2024 12:23pm
- BananaLlama
  
  This guy may as well live on the moon, for most workers their favorite holiday isn’t Matariki it will be either Christmas or New Years and the more time they can take off over summer the better.
  
  16 1
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  October 28, 2024 1:05pm
- PurplePen
  
  I think Jesus got the jump on him 2025 years ago.
  
  5 0
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  October 28, 2024 5:01pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  This whole racist caboodle is completely irrational, childish and dangerous. The NZ woke are creating a brainwashing system for part Maori to always think like victims of “Pakeha”. It’s completely insane but the normies have become numb and indifferent to it (thinking about it seriously causes them to have an anxiety meltdown).
  
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  October 28, 2024 6:12pm
  - Swifty
    
    The whole piece was bloody infantile and will no doubt appeal to all sorts of infants.
    
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    October 28, 2024 7:52pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Tulsi Gabbard joins the Republican Party.
Yep, that’s the ex-Democrat who has told the Democrats where to go.

https://patriotpowerednetwork.com/tulsi-gabbard-stuns-crowd-with-bold-moves-at-maga-rally/?
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October 28, 2024 11:06am
Tauhei Notts

I have just finished ploughing my way through Sarah Gaitanos’ book on Shirley Smith. Many of you will remember Shirley as Bill Sutch’s missus.
Shirley had a huge intelligence that got her into Oxford, but when it came to running a law practice she had the business knowhow of an illiterate Paddy painter.
I had been unaware if Bill’s disdain for income tax returns. He could have been a Green Party politician if he had been born 40 years later than he was.
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October 28, 2024 11:25am
- MCōs
  
  Is that all you got out of the book?
  Here is a very interesting interview with the author
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018698700/sarah-gaitanos-examining-the-life-of-shirley-smith
  
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  October 28, 2024 5:26pm
rouppe

Somewhat disappointing result for Liam Lawson in the Mexican Gran Prix.

Best part was Lawson giving the finger to Perez as he passed him. Watch:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/motorsport/formula-1/formula-1-result-late-damage-ruins-liam-lawsons-race-as-carlos-sainz-wins-mexican-grand-prix/LQE6GJLMVVADPFHR5GIN5FPBUM/
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October 28, 2024 11:26am
Bridgenag

The FDA’s War Against DMSO and America
The Forgotten History That Led to the FDA Again and Again Keeping the Things We Most Desperately Need Away From Us

https://open.substack.com/pub/amidwesterndoctor/p/the-fdas-war-against-dmso-and-america?r=3rl49t&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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October 28, 2024 12:31pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

There will be a lot of tears from the leftist media on the evening of Nov 5th.

https://rumble.com/v5inqxg-msnbc-hack-mika-brzezinski-holds-back-tears-for-entire-segment-as-she-admit.html?
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October 28, 2024 12:43pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Madison Square Garden:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-nyc-rally-crowd-fans-b2636522.html
https://www.fox5ny.com/video/1538541
https://tribune.com.pk/story/2505693/dr-phil-mcgraw-endorses-trump-at-msg-rally
Seems it was big. Some New Yorkers didn’t know it was on and hated it!
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October 28, 2024 1:20pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

NZCPR. Dr Muriel Newman.

The Battle for Democracy.
“The treaty is a wonderful stick for activists to beat the rest of us with.”
David Lange.

https://www.nzcpr.com/the-battle-for-democracy/
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October 28, 2024 1:33pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Tucker Carlson in Georgia.
I sort of get the impression he is not a Democrat fan.

https://x.com/BehizyTweets/status/1849222273045082314
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October 28, 2024 2:12pm
- Jethrod
  
  That was an amazing, powerful speech!
  
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  October 28, 2024 6:24pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

As the US Election gets closer I am getting more and more of “page not found.”
The left are banning stuff they don’t like. Even on Facebook where that prick Zuckerberg said he would stop doing it.
eg:
https://patriotpowerednews.com/president-trumps-legacy-will-be-defined-by-his-creation-of-the-u-s-space-force/
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October 28, 2024 2:14pm
- kevn
  
  SteveO… X is where the news is. Not fakebook or any msm.
  
  2 1
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  October 28, 2024 5:35pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Yes and 20% Starmer has suggested the cackles crew “kill twitter”.
    
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    October 28, 2024 6:14pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

October surprise is no more.
Donald Trump Jr.

https://politicalactionalerts.com/desperate-dems-pin-hopes-on-hoax-to-save-kamala-from-disaster/?
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October 28, 2024 2:20pm
Jack5

Got a basic small cellphone that runs only on 3G networks?

Australia is progressively shutting down its 3G network this week.

New Zealand’s One network (previously called Vodafone NZ) is probably the main provider of 3G for phones in this country, and ends 3G services on December 31.

If you have a 3G phone and use it only for text and voice calls, you can buy a One NZ-locked replacement 4G phone for $49 at the Warehouse at present.

You may need to use your pre-paid minutes on a 3G phone before December 31. Or you may be able to transfer the SIM card to a new phone.

https://one.nz/3g-switchoff/
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October 28, 2024 2:46pm
- Jethrod
  
  Oh, was this an ad for The Warehouse, where everyone gets a bargain, and previously a money-back guarantee?
  
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  October 28, 2024 6:26pm
  - Jack5
    
    Basic phones aren’t easy to find. The shops want you to buy smart phones.
    
    But Jethro led me to check, and the phone I was referring to is slightly cheaper at this moment at Harvey Norman. It is probably also available at other whiteware and electronics retail chains.
    
    The phone brand is Mobiwire Hinto, locked to NZ One. If there are other 4G burner-class phones on sale that might be useful information to some here.
    
    State TV, State radio and the subsidised print media give free advertising endlessly to the Left-Green Woke and Jethdrod’s upset about a retailer name? Jeez.
    
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    October 28, 2024 7:58pm
    - Ghost
      
      Yeah. Not everyone wants a smart phone. There is actually a good market overseas for people moving away from smart phones. The options available here aren’t that great for those not wanting s smart phone
      
      2 0
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      October 28, 2024 8:11pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Very dark shops, they seem to have the lights turned down and it makes it look like a secondhand shop.
    
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    October 28, 2024 8:02pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Colour me surprised.

“ A fire at a Kāinga Ora apartment block in Auckland, which left dozens of flats without power and water, is NOW being treated as suspicious”. (my emphasis)

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/532098/fire-in-auckland-apartment-block-suspicious-police
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October 28, 2024 2:57pm
Ghost

Damn. Not what I expected from John

John Farnham has detailed abuse he suffered at the hands of his first manager, who drugged, manipulated and was sexually aggressive towards him in the early stages of his career.

In the singer’s upcoming memoir, The Voice Inside, Farnham reveals Darryl Sambell covertly gave him amphetamines to boost his energy before performances and snuck him sleeping pills in the morning.

“He drugged me for years and I had no f…ing idea.”

Article
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October 28, 2024 3:19pm
- MCōs
  
  I saw Little Johnny Farnham in Timaru in 1968 when Sadie the Cleaning Lady was a big hit.
  Everybody went everywhere in those days.
  It wasn’t just the the singers that popped amphetamines, don’t you worry about that.
  
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  October 28, 2024 5:47pm
kevn

SteveO… Great comment and observations from the US grassroots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe9mEvXI088
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October 28, 2024 4:45pm
Ghost

This interview made me laugh, it was more of trump being a fanboy than anything else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9lXnwuZ2qs
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October 28, 2024 6:01pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  He’s definitely sharpened his delivery with words it would appear (as with the Rogan interview). Nice!
  
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  October 28, 2024 6:22pm
  - Ghost
    
    I don’t think it was what Mark was expecting but it plays very well to his listener base. It’s actually a genius interview.
    
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    October 28, 2024 6:46pm
Tauhei Notts

Betting.
Forget horses, and sports betting.
The biggest event for betting is the Harris-Trump event.
Total bets on Betfair come to $211mil. $1.65mil has been bet, just TODAY.
I have never seen anything like it in my life.
After Madison Square Garden, in solid Democrat country, Trump has shortened from $1.66 to $1.64.
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October 28, 2024 9:03pm
- Ghost
  
  To compare. last year $221.6 million AUD was bet on the Melbourne cup. But to really blow your mind, this year $23.1 billion USD was bet on the Super Bowl. Damn.
  
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  October 28, 2024 9:21pm
Hugh Jarse

65% of NZ’rs support a CGT according to the Herald. New Tūī ad right there!. It was probably meant to be 6.5% and the sub editor got it wrong again. I will support a CGT when I have that much money that I am sick of wasting it myself and will instead be happy to give it to a government to waste on my behalf.
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October 29, 2024 10:59pm

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