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October 24, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 24 October 2024

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General Debate

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NeverMindTheBollocks

When I saw the headline, I naively thought that Jacinda had put her hand on her own pocket and stumped up funds for a scholarship.

As if! Silly Bollocks!

No, one of her faceless chums from the US is providing the necessary, at no personal cost to Her [Mod – deleted]]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360462473/jacinda-ardern-behind-new-250k-scholarship-mosque-attack-survivors
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October 24, 2024 8:01am
- cmm
  
  “Your first year of university is on me!”
  
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  October 24, 2024 12:49pm
Scooter

According to this reporter not all got off the Manawanui, seems like they are still trying to recover a Vestal Virgin, that apparently went down with the ship.

“The Government is in the process of salvaging the vestal – but Luxon said the saga won’t overshadow the CHOGM event “at all”. ”

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/the-monarch-and-the-manawanui-luxon-gears-up-for-samoa-heads-of-govt-trip/
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October 24, 2024 8:03am
- Paulus
  
  Thought I heard the other day that a local Salvor would take three days to recover the sunken vessel – or am I dreaming as they would be !
  
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  October 24, 2024 10:14am
  - nzgoose
    
    how hard can it be to fill it with air bags and inflate them and then patch and pump out water. it’s not that deep.
    
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    October 24, 2024 3:17pm
    - Local Miller
      
      nzgoose, at 30 meters it’s on the edge of standard dive limits. If you stay over 20 minutes you need a decompression stop. We would take a stop at 5m if we were over 15 minutes just as a precaution.
      If you want to stay longer you need to dive with Nitrox/O2 mix rather than Nitrogen/O2 (standard air). There are a couple of companies in NZ who could do this. Funny thing is the ship they want to raise is one of the best support vessels for this sort of work 🙂
      It’s possible, but it’s not that easy to do.
      
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      October 24, 2024 4:19pm
      - Colville
        
        But the guys who do salvage work arnt recreational divers…they are pros.
        
        They would likely be on Kirbys/tethers with comms and working extended periods. Just a break on an assent rope on the way up chillin…no biggie.
        
        Bill Day and Seaworks would be chomping at the bit for this.
        
        **afterthought…possibly just twins for 40 mins bottom time…its not cold so tethers would be overkill…?
        
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        October 24, 2024 5:40pm
Yvette

From the Watangi Tribunal Interim Report –
We have noted that the rights of all New Zealanders and equality before the law are protected by a combination of domestic statutes, the common law, and international instruments.

Yet by engaging with this policy the Crown is sanctioning a process that will take away indigenous rights. We have found that the Treaty Principles Bill policy is unfair, discriminatory, and inconsistent with the principles of partnership and reciprocity, active protection, good government, equity, and redress, and contrary to the article 2 guarantee of rangatiratanga.

It is also in breach of the Crown’s duty to act honourably and with the utmost good faith. For the Crown to entertain ‘principles’ that contain inaccurate representations of the text and spirit of the Treaty/te Tiriti and warped interpretations of te reo Māori from te Tiriti o Waitangi is a breach of the duty to act in good faith and to act reasonably.
https://forms.justice.govt.nz/search/Documents/WT/wt_DOC_217933408/Nga%20Matapono%20W.pdf

What seems to be missing above is any expression of how the Crown engaging with the Treaty Principles Bill policy is unfair, discriminatory, or inconsistent with the principles of partnership in “sanctioning a process that will take away indigenous rights“.

Define one example how indigenous people will be in a different position to any other New Zealander.
• What precise right will perhaps be denied to those of Maori descent under a proposed but as yet unseen bill, purportedly to clarify the Treaty?
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October 24, 2024 8:06am
- Cassandra
  
  It’s inconsistent with the principles the Courts have determined in the absence of Parliament doing so. That is, the very thing the Act Bill is designed to do!
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:25am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Laughably, the Waitangi Tribunal is just the propaganda arm of the Maori Party. National and it’s Coalition partners should get rid of the Tribunal. It would certainly be a good cost cutting exercise.
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:34am
  - david
    
    Has anyone reported on the annual or accumulated costs of this Tribunal?
    
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    October 24, 2024 12:59pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Err, this Tribunal is ongoing and has been since 1975. The cost can not be counted until the Waitangi Tribunal is ABOLISHED! Not repealed, not put under investigation, just cut the Tribunal throat. No more topups – nothing!
      Only then the cost can be counted, maybe.
      
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      October 24, 2024 2:58pm
      - alloytoo
        
        Don’t abolish, quietly defund.
        
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        October 24, 2024 4:53pm
- Paulus
  
  Sounds like a usual load of Bollocks to me again !
  Parliament are Paramount in New Zealand, not the Judges !
  
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  October 24, 2024 10:15am
- Unity
  
  This really makes my blood boil. How much longer are they going to reinvent our history. For the first point there never was a partnership. It would have been ridiculous to think that the Queen would go into partnership with a bunch of Stone Age natives. The Crown does not go into partnership with its citizens. Secondly, Maori are NOT indigenous. They love telling us what canoe they arrived on. Anything else is utter nonsense and it’s time this country woke up to what is going on.
  
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  October 24, 2024 1:18pm
- PurplePen
  
  Its all also one way. If its a partnership as they say, then what of the obligations of the non-crown side.
  
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  October 24, 2024 1:19pm
  - fernglas
    
    Article 3 of the Maori version of the Treaty was translated by Sir Hugh Kawharu to say that the Queen would give “all the ordinary people of New Zealand…the same rights and duties of citizenship as the people of England.”
    Assuming that Maori were included amongst the “ordinary people” (and they must have been, given that otherwise the article would have been meaningless,) the question that must be asked is what were the duties of citizenship of the people of England at that time? Foremost in those duties was the acknowledgement of the sovereignty of the Queen. That in itself must be a complete answer to whether the earlier two articles involved the ceding of sovereignty. It is a clear and unambiguous statement which msut surely take precedence over the ambiguities in the preceding articles.
    
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    October 24, 2024 5:48pm
Cassandra

Trump is going to win election, says America’s top analyst, Nate Silver. Silver is a Democrat but a skilled analyst and poker player. He says that the momentum is with Trump and his gut feeling is that Trump will win 6 of the 7 swing states. General John Kelly says that Trump meets the definition of a fascist. I suspect that both are right.
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October 24, 2024 8:06am
- BananaLlama
  
  Trump meets the definition of a fascist.
  
  They say that about every Republican president, when Trump wins and does nothing at all what then? call the next one a fascist because he defies the Democrats and hurts their feelings?
  
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  October 24, 2024 8:11am
  - mandk
    
    Who would you rather have, a supposed fascist or an evident traitor?
    
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    October 24, 2024 9:30am
    - Lance
      
      So the choice is being shot or hung?
      Kinda piss poor options there
      
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      October 24, 2024 12:37pm
      - mandk
        
        That was really my point.
        I find it difficult to understand how the USA got itself into this position.
        
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        October 24, 2024 3:36pm
  - Cassandra
    
    Suggest you read what Kelly said. He lists the components of fascism and says Trump meets the definition. Unlike you and me Kelly actually knows Trump well. The 12 so far, down tickers have never met Trump. Kelly spent 16 hours a day at the White House for 18 months. I think Trump wouldn’t know a fascist if he fell over one. He’ll still be Prez in a few weeks.
    
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    October 24, 2024 9:30am
    - BananaLlama
      
      The Democrats will never forgive the Republicans for winning the American civil war and freeing the American people from slavery and that will always taint the American Democrat party and drive them to preach virtuous behavior.
      but …
      I wont be arrogant and i will read what Mr Kelly has to say, if you could provide a link that would be great.
      
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      October 24, 2024 9:43am
      - mandk
        
        Yes, the Dems always were and still are deeply racist.
        
        They fought to keep slavery, they established the KKK, and they introduced the Jim Crow Laws.
        
        And Biden made it clear that they still want to keep the [Mod – deleted] on the plantation when he said: “If you don’t vote Democrat, you ain’t black”.
        
        And, yet all those dimwitted liberals think Trump is racist.
        
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        October 24, 2024 11:22am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        mandk, many Black Americans have now left the plantation. They finally realise that the Dems just want their vote. Same for all of the United States, the Dems don’t give a fuck about Americans, and will help illegals and other Countries. They won’t help their Veterans ffs!
        TRUMP 2024. MAGA.
        
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        October 24, 2024 3:02pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The 14 downtickers show you are over the target.
      Prez Elect in a few weeks. He said he will stop Ukraine/Russia when he is Prez Elect – before he is inaugurated Jan 20th 2025.
      
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      October 24, 2024 9:59am
      - Swifty
        
        “The 14 downtickers show you are over the target.”
        
        Penny, is that you? Have you returned?
        
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        October 24, 2024 10:30am
      - Ghost
        
        No it doesn’t. But we must by Otto standards thank Mike for being the most over the target kiwiblogger. Thanks Mike.
        
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        October 24, 2024 10:34am
      - Gussy Fink-Nottle
        
        At last, someone tells me when that bloody war will end!
        OK, no specifics, but in the absence of anyone else describing a credible off-ramp, I’ll take it.
        
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        October 24, 2024 11:13am
      - Lance
        
        By forcing the Ukrainians to surrender so Putin can rearm and have a go at more countries.
        Nice one
        
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        October 24, 2024 12:40pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Ghost @ 10.34,
        Who is this “we” you speak of Kemosabe?
        
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        October 24, 2024 3:05pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Swifty @ 10.30, Nah not Penny! Although she was a lot of fun.
        
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        October 24, 2024 3:07pm
    - rouppe
      
      He doesn’t list the elements of fascism, he read it a “list he found online”.
      
      Mr. Kelly first read aloud a definition of fascism that he had found online:
      
      “It’s a far-right authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy,” he said.
      
      Put aside the far right, that’s revisionism. Both historical fascists amplified socialism with violence.
      
      Dictatorial leader: this would require the dissolution of the Senate and the House of Representatives. Not going to happen.
      
      Centralized autocracy: As above. Trump can’t get much of anything done without agreement of the House and the Senate.
      
      Militarism: Despite what Trump has said, I doubt Trump could deploy the military domestically. If only because the generals wouldn’t comply. And remind me who has pumped billions into Ukraine and Israel? Who has deployed an actual missile battalion, boys on the ground, to Israel? Biden. Does that make him a fascist?
      
      Forcible suppression of opposition: give me a break. Who has been using lawfare to suppress? Democrats.
      
      Belief in a natural social hierarchy: what does that even mean? To draw from fascism, it would mean the Jews are subhuman? I’ve not seen Trump say that. African Americans then? Where’s the evidence? Why does he have a solid Black cohort supporting him?
      
      Pretty much all of that list you could apply to Arden.
      
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      October 24, 2024 12:44pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Biden…. Always accuse others of what you are guilty of yourself.
        No?
        
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        October 24, 2024 3:10pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Lefty definition of a fascist these days is someone who opposes collectivism, wokeness and economic/social collapse.
    
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    October 24, 2024 2:57pm
- Simon
  
  Silver is a clown. Anyone listening to him is a mug.
  
  Trump was always going to win. These Dem paid grifters closer to the actual date have to say something like this to help with their creditability with the mugs. All polling tightens closer to the election with Trump. Same reason. They say stupid shit, well Trump is a great campaigner or some fake shit, which explains the polls tighten right at the end.
  
  Polling has been way off in 2016, 2020 and now 2024. At front & centre of the fake polling has been Nate Silver. Grifter and Dem operative.
  
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  October 24, 2024 8:18am
  - Cassandra
    
    Nonsense Simon. He is a good pollster. And an even better poker player.
    
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    October 24, 2024 9:31am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Polls are ‘fake news’ to try and gain Dem votes.
    
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    October 24, 2024 10:02am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Exactly, few will want to vote for someone who is clearly going to lose. They will stay home.
      
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      October 24, 2024 10:53am
  - plc
    
    What a load of nonsense.
    
    Nate Silver – regardless of political views – is an expert on probability and its interpretation over a wide variety of spheres.
    
    He is also one of the best explainers of the difference between probability and uncertainty and how it should be interpretted in any consideration of risk.
    
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    October 24, 2024 10:47am
    - imalwaysright
      
      What is his record of accuracy like?
      That would be the main determinant of his competence.
      
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      October 24, 2024 10:56am
      - cmm
        
        ” That would be the main determinant of his competence.”
        … or maybe survivor bias…
        
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        October 24, 2024 12:52pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    The dems had a really good chance since 2020 to show mature leadership. They blew it. They instead could not help themselves in showing themselves to be truly rotten and full of juvenile and dangerous loons.
    
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    October 24, 2024 3:00pm
- Toes on the nose
  
  Agreed. Based on last 2 elections when he did 3-4% better than his polling. The ‘shy conservative’ is real..my wife has to nod along when her soap-dodging-Greenie mates say ‘How could NACT win? I don’t know ANYONE who voted for them!’
  Trump or Harris could get a ‘landslide’ cos of the combined PA & GA power. It would be interesting if it came down to a Nebraska? split.
  
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  October 24, 2024 8:28am
- Inandout
  
  Cass, I read that Trump is racist, Nazi, Facist, atisemitic, a rapist, a criminal, anti democratic and a nasty man. Gosh, I guess Kamala is the one.
  
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  October 24, 2024 8:45am
  - Cassandra
    
    Read what Kelly said. It’s easy to find. He’s not throwing an insult.
    
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    October 24, 2024 9:32am
    - ISeeRed
      
      Why make the comparison at all? “Fascist” is not a neutral term.
      
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      October 24, 2024 1:43pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Inandout:
    You missed out that Trump is also a womaniser and orange.
    Being a womaniser not such a big deal for JFK and Mr Clinton.
    
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    October 24, 2024 12:38pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Nah nah nah, it is different when the left do it
      
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      October 24, 2024 3:12pm
- Matt Long
  
  I guess Trump does meet the definition of a fascist, if fascist means someone who disagrees with progressivism, and state control of everything.
  
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  October 24, 2024 8:56am
  - Lance
    
    More like his on the record distain for democracy and the rule of law.
    
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    October 24, 2024 12:46pm
    - Quail
      
      The rule of law?
      Saw a quote that “ every day every one over 18 in the US breaks a law .that would make them a felon 365 days a year”
      The problem is ,like here, far far too many laws that makes felons of us all.
      
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      October 24, 2024 6:27pm
- Grunter
  
  Cassandra – how does Trump fit the fascist definition? You must have a different definition than the widely accepted one:
  “It’s a far-right authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy”
  
  That kinda sounds more like the Dems and their mates ‘The Deep State’ to me…..
  
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  October 24, 2024 8:58am
  - Cassandra
    
    Read what Kelly said.
    
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    October 24, 2024 9:33am
    - Cassandra
      
      That’s actually the definition Kelly used. Argue with Kelly, not me. I’ve never met Trump. Kelly has.
      
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      October 24, 2024 9:40am
    - Grunter
      
      I did
      
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      October 24, 2024 9:57am
    - Manu-Rau
      
      Fascism isn’t far-right. Any definition that says it is is – ergo – automatically incorrect and self-disqualifying.
      
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      October 24, 2024 3:29pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Grunter, the term fascism is thrown around constantly at anyone on the right side of the political spectrum that has any power. Fascism is of the left. There is no doubt whatsoever. Anyone who disagrees, should read the works of Giovanni Gentile. Gentile was to fascism as Smith was to capitalism. Pre WW2, fascism was considered to be of the left. It was only after WW2, that the left (particularly in Universities) re-wrote history. If of the right, you would believe in personal responsibility, small Government and non-interference by the Government in the free market. How does this work with Fascism? Fascism was described by Professor James Gregor (University of California, Berkeley) as “fascism is black communism and communism is red fascism”. Richard Pipes (Harvard) wrote that “fascism was a heresy of socialism”.
    
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    October 24, 2024 10:02am
    - cmm
      
      ” fascism was considered to be of the left”
      
      Normally facists have Socialist somewhere in their name and are highly socialist in their thinking.
      
      Even the word facist comes from the root word facine (or similar) meaning a bundle of sticks (ie. socialism).
      
      The Nazis were heavy socialists and so were Mussolini’s mob.
      
      The Volkswagen beetle was the “strength through joy” car. Wolfburg (the VW town) was built as a workers’ paradise.
      
      The Fascists in Italy were building communal factories etc.
      
      The only material difference with the communists is that communists are globalists while the facists were nationalists.
      
      So as soon as anyone shows any hint of nationalism (ie. putting the people of your country first), they are labelled fascist.
      
      It is somewhat ironic that a General, who should be putting his nation’s interests ahead of everything else by serving his country, is pointing fingers at others for doing so.
      
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      October 24, 2024 1:00pm
  - Swifty
    
    The author does themselves nor their readers any service whatsoever by including ‘far-right’ in any definition of ‘fascist’.
    
    It’s as helpful as answering the question “what is a woman?” with “anyone who thinks they are a woman.”
    
    It gets us nowhere.
    
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    October 24, 2024 10:35am
- David Garrett
  
  Cass: I wonder what the good General’s definition of “fascist” is – I have read dozens of them.
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:18am
  - Cassandra
    
    I’ll post a link https://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-kelly-former-white-house-chief-sta
    
    This is the best I can do but there are dozens of reports. Don’t shoot the messenger.
    
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    October 24, 2024 9:38am
    - All_on_Red
      
      I suspect Kelly is still burning from Trump firing him.
      In a post Truth Social post last year, Trump called Kelly “the dumbest of my Military people,” adding that Kelly was “incapable of doing a good job, it was too much for him, and I couldn’t stand the guy, so I fired him like a ‘dog.'”
      In a response interview with CNN, Trump said, “John Kelly has an axe to grind, and he made up a story. Nobody would say what he said. I wouldn’t be the last person to say that he’s a liar; he’s a proven liar, and he’s lied on other occasions.”
      
      He continued, “I didn’t respect him. Once I lost my respect for him because I saw that he couldn’t do the job, I fired him, and when you fire people, they tend to say negative things.”
      
      This is all part of the ‘October Surprise’ strategy where they smear Trump to try to hurt him.
      Harris is now calling Trump Hitler…
      We have also seen The Atlantic make claims which have been proven to be fake but they still get repeated.
      Its pretty desperate stuff so the Democrats must be crapping themselves.
      Given people can reflect on Trumps record- where he wasnt a Fascist, I dont think it will make any difference.
      
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      October 24, 2024 2:14pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Fascism as touted by Gentile, before modern left wing campaigns to redefine it and other words of invective like Racism, means everything in the state, centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition. Often coupled with ethnic preference.
  
  Remarkable how Trump, a life long proponent of capitalism, entrepreneurship and a track record of not being that as president is being denounced as a Fascist when it is (oxymoronic) Democrats and Progressives that are trashing democratic norms, undermining elections, pushing oppressive govt/state control of everything, anti-white racial preferences, control of speech, suppression/impoverishment of opposition (extensive lawfare) and laboring classes, more intrusive laws, social controls.
  
  They are in almost every way that matters Fascistic in intent and practice. While the Republican opposition is a broad church of blue collar, social and economic conservatives and old-style liberals trying to stem their tide of authoritarian state coercion and repression.
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:24am
  - Philview
    
    I actually thought New Zealand under Ardern was showing elements of moving towards a fascist state. Charismatic leader, move to centralised control of all elements in the country, control of much of the media, autocratic tendencies such as shutting border for 2 years, anti democratic as evidenced in He Puapua and claims that traditional democracy is finished in NZ, words more dangerous than bullets speech, demonisation of colonisation, rewrite history etc etc
    
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    October 24, 2024 11:11am
    - alloytoo
      
      Ardern was as fascist as Trudeau, that is to say as much as they could get away with
      
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      October 24, 2024 4:58pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Correct. It is Biden and his administration that is Fascist.
    
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    October 24, 2024 11:16am
  - Matt Long
    
    ” Always accuse your enemy of exactly what you are doing ”
    https://x.com/JohnCleese/status/959814215056936961
    
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    October 24, 2024 11:30am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Indeed. Meanwhile Veteran Democrat Strategist (work on Bill Clintons Campaign) James Carville has called for people to take up arms if Trump wins.
      “When the Republic was threatened, people picked up arms and answered the call,” Carville said.
      
      “Or, you know, in 1965 in the middle of the Civil Rights movement, I think people decided they were gonna take matters into their own hands and create a better country and that’s what I hope we do here in the next few weeks,” he finished.”
      
      Gee, this all sounds very insurrectiony.
      
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      October 24, 2024 1:05pm
- Gravelroad
  
  How about the current President – Biden- recommending yesterday that his opponent should be “locked up”?
  During an on-going election campaign.
  Might expect that from Putin or the leader of North Korea or maybe a South American drug cartel boss/“leader”- but the President of the USA?
  (I get it that many people hate, loathe and fear Trump, but locking up your opponent just before an election won’t win it for the Democrats).
  
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  October 24, 2024 10:39am
  - Ghost
    
    Here’s what he said
    
    “We gotta lock him up,” he said to applause, before leaving a roughly five-second pause and then quickly backtracking.
    
    “Politically lock him up,” Biden clarified
    
    “Lock him out, that’s what we’ve got to do.”
    
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    October 24, 2024 10:42am
    - Geri Sjovik
      
      Sounds like he realised what he said and then tried to backtrack.
      
      The first words out of his mouth were his innermost thoughts.
      
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      October 24, 2024 10:56am
      - Ghost
        
        I don’t think he’s aware of a lot of what he says, just reads what’s on the screen in front of him
        
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        October 24, 2024 11:01am
    - Manu-Rau
      
      You’re very kind to the senile idiot. He got caught, pure and simple.
      
      Just like when he said that Trump needed to be ‘eliminated’.
      
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      October 24, 2024 3:34pm
  - Flossie
    
    Don’t get me wrong – certainly no Kamala fan, but wasn’t “Lock her up” exactly what Trump said of Hilary during that campaign?
    
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    October 24, 2024 12:45pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      And then Trump demonstrably didn’t touch her during his 4 years in power. Even though Clinton had undeniably broken security laws and destroyed subpoenaed evidence to cover her tracks, and was rampantly corrupt with pay for play during her time as secretary of state.
      
      She enriching her family controlled Clinton foundation ‘charity’ (that she and her family draw fat management fees from to support their lifestyle just like other uber-wealthy do as a tax dodge), to the tune of $100’s of millions in ‘donations’ from shitholistan despots in return for favorable trade and weapons supply decisions by the secretary of state. Donations dried up very quickly once she was defeated in 2016.
      
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      October 24, 2024 3:09pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      And she should be!
      
      3 4
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      October 24, 2024 3:37pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  I take issue with the momentum being with Trump.
  On the Betfair site, where turnover was nearly $8mil in the past 24 hours, Trump’s seemingly relentless firming in the market since 6th October, got a blimp last night. The money is coming for the [Mod – use proper names]
  That saddens me.
  
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  October 24, 2024 11:04am
  - imalwaysright
    
    “The money is coming for the [Mod – use proper names].
    That saddens me”
    
    That’s how bookies make money. Dreams.
    
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    October 24, 2024 11:57am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Why was her name moderated?
      
      [Mod – if you used her real name it wouldn’t be moderated, that is not her name and you know that]
      
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      October 24, 2024 1:05pm
- kowtow
  
  If a definition of fascism is state control of just about everything , then look no further than the Democrats .
  
  Addionally they have made very dangerous calls re changes to Supreme Court and Electoral College .
  They are a danger to the Constitution , border and law and order.
  Not to mention weaponising the IRD , FBI and AG’s offices across the country.
  
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  October 24, 2024 11:10am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  “Trump meets the definition of a fascist”
  
  You mean, the trains will finally run on time?
  
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  October 24, 2024 11:41am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump’s role in Home Alone 2 was staged.
When Kevin asked for directions to the lobby, all of the people in the hotel were actors.

https://babylonbee.com/news/investigation-reveals-trumps-role-in-home-alone-2-was-staged?
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October 24, 2024 8:14am
Yvette

A draft United Nations’ declaration plan has been delivered to the Māori Development Minister but is being held back from Cabinet until some of the recommendations are watered down.
In April, Cabinet ministers gave the green light for the plan to be drafted to lay out how New Zealand would meet United Nations obligations in respect of indigenous peoples’ rights.
The completed draft plan was scheduled to go before Cabinet for approval this month so the rest of New Zealand could then be consulted on the proposed recommendations. Māori were consulted first and the feedback received from the 70 hui across the country was used to inform the proposals.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2022/06/29/jackson-not-comfortable-with-co-governance-draft/

What exactly would be the name of this document and has any New Zealand ‘investigative’ journalist the intestinal fortitude to ask for it under the Official Information Act

08/12/2022
Willie Jackson will take a recommendation to Cabinet on December 19 to halt work on a draft plan designed to meet commitments made under the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People (UNDRIP)

The process for reaching a declaration plan was for Māori to be consulted first and then a draft drawn up by the governance group for Cabinet to sign off to then be shared with the rest of the country for feedback.

The governance group provided Jackson with a draft in June, but he never took it to Cabinet because he didn’t agree with about 20 percent of what was in it and knew it wouldn’t be palatable to his colleagues.

In the months since, the group has reworked it but Jackson is now increasingly less convinced it is the right time to push ahead with the work and wants to halt it next year …

Ardern did acknowledge that it was on the Government to make sure people were properly informed, even if some of the debate around UNDRIP had been made more difficult by some of the facts being <misrepresented.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2022/12/08/co-governance-work-put-on-ice/

Where is a copy of the document which Jackson saw as unfit to present to the then Labour Cabinet?
Do Luxon, Seymour or especially Winston (because his Coalition Partners did not tell him about it) now have access to these documents?
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/10/general_debate_04_october_2024.html#comment-3625401

Again, has any New Zealand ‘investigative’ journalist the intestinal fortitude to ask for this document under the Official Information Act – and tell us what it says?

And a relevant question may be –
Was the acceptability of the draft document to be filtered by one man: Willie Jackson – a little like he currently bemoans David Seymour is doing
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October 24, 2024 8:21am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

‘Will absolutely make sure his enemies pay’
“At a rally in January, Trump called for New York State Attorney General Letitia James and Judge Arthur Engoron to be “arrested and punished.””

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/will-absolutely-make-sure-his-enemies-pay-trump-has-made-100-direct-threats-during-2024-campaign/ar-AA1sKhIr?
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October 24, 2024 8:24am
- Matt Long
  
  And Fani Willis’ boyfriend, who had a luxury holiday with her on prosecution funds, admits he did collaborate with the Biden team on Trump’s Georgia prosection after all.
  https://x.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/1848448405736968288
  
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  October 24, 2024 8:39am
Matt Long

Tanya Unkovich and NZF have a members bill requiring the MoH to provide a standard of palliative care.
I believe this is a bill worth supporting.
https://goodoil.news/bill-focusing-on-palliative-care-welcomed/
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October 24, 2024 8:30am
- peterwn
  
  The Bill when enacted would require a funding stream outside the health budget.
  Otherwise if it is to funded within the health budget, it would basically mean that palliative care takes priority over other health matters.
  This illustrates once again the horrid dilemmas of health decision makers who do not have unlimited funding for health.
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:27am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes exactly. Which would lead to other health specialties wanting their own ring fenced funding.
    
    The petition asks for “the very best palliative care”. Yeah well that is not happening. Just like New Zealand folk are not going to get the very best cancer care. Or any other care. Simply because the country is becoming poorer relative to other countries.
    
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    October 24, 2024 9:45am
    - AitchW
      
      I wonder how the very best palliative care is defined? And how is any care measured? What is acceptable to one person may fall well short of the expectations of the patient in the next bed.
      FWIW my experience with palliative care (family and friends, not personal you understand) in the New Zealand health system has been very positive.
      It seems to me this is a bill looking fo a problem.
      
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      October 24, 2024 12:40pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Like with the general health system I’ve heard varying stories. Some terminal patients getting a good run and some dying in pain for want of proper palliative care when their time came.
        
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        October 24, 2024 3:04pm
    - PurplePen
      
      Yes. So many govt agencies central and local want to be world leading. Why can’t we just follow after a few years of someone else being world leading. As with cellphones, you buy the 2022 model and can still do all you need to, instead of paying three times the price to get the 2024 model.
      
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      October 24, 2024 1:28pm
    - Keith White
      
      Just give them all the mRNA boosters; according to multiple large-population studies (e.g. but not only 9.245,000 patients in South Korea) they will not need palliative care, they will die prematurely.
      
      [Mod – let’s debate without the personal jabs please]
      
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      October 24, 2024 7:02pm
Matt Long

An Islamic Global Peace and Unity festival points out that in order to have peace and unity we must repackage terrorism as resistance.
https://x.com/mishtal/status/1848989743800807657
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October 24, 2024 8:33am
- Flossie
  
  I’m unsure how to react. Does an uptick indicate agreement with the festival’s point, or a thank you Matt for bringing this to our attention!
  
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  October 24, 2024 8:45am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    The latter for me.
    
    13 1
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    October 24, 2024 9:02am
- Matt Long
  
  Video shows Hezbollah member saying that Western pro Islam protests are funded and organised by them.
  https://x.com/EYakoby/status/1848138691358638313
  
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  October 24, 2024 8:47am
- cmm
  
  One of the older sayings:”One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”.
  
  SO how can you tell the difference then?
  
  Well if the “freedom fighters” are exploiting the people they are “freeing” (eg. using them as human shields) then they are firmly on the terrorist side of the line.
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:10am
  - PurplePen
    
    Not quite in the same vein, but TPM and the maori elite exploit their own.
    
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    October 24, 2024 1:29pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Mmmm. Peace and unity. Yeah right.
  
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  October 24, 2024 3:06pm
Matt Long

America’s most DEI candidate even got into school on disadvantaged DEI, despite her highly privileged family background.
https://x.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/1848451647980376500
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October 24, 2024 8:42am
JC60

In reference to Anika Moa’s interview with Kiri Allen which RNZ refused to broadcast and has been recently released under the OIA, I was surprised and disappointed that Moa appears to hold such racist views.
24 2
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October 24, 2024 8:44am
- NothingLeft
  
  Don’t you mean unsurprised? She’s been a Maori supremacist for ages.
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:27am
- sirknz
  
  “I was surprised and disappointed that Moa appears to hold such racist views”
  
  You should mark sarcasm with either”…” or “//”.
  
  14 1
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  October 24, 2024 9:51am
- Burtland
  
  if there was ever an argument for DEI this dispels it
  – whats astounding is that one of them was the Minister of Justice
  
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  October 24, 2024 10:11am
  - imalwaysright
    
    – whats astounding is that one of them was the Minister of Justice, and, which one it was, doesn’t really matter…
    
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    October 24, 2024 12:07pm
- Clyde
  
  Just part of the State broadcasting (media arm of the hard left) brigade. All tarred with the same brush.
  
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  October 24, 2024 10:17am
  - pdm
    
    What puzzles me is who would watch/listen to such crap?
    
    I do understand that one or two New Zealanders have an employment obligation to do so – eg the NZ Censor or Human Rights Commissioner etc.
    
    The average New Zealander though is surely not that stupid or bereft of other things to do.
    
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    October 24, 2024 11:12am
  - Ghost
    
    Actually, what is interesting here is radio nz refused to air it. Under Ardern that wouldn’t happen, so something has shifted within radio nz for them to censor this.
    
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    October 24, 2024 12:16pm
Matt Long

OMG, Galway too? And all those NZ councils… quick, end the war effort, welcome in the terrorists.
https://x.com/Daniel_Sugarman/status/1848272169396027793
7 1
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October 24, 2024 8:44am
- James Stephenson
  
  To be fair, Galway’s a place I’d actually recommend visiting. In my experience, the best Guinness anywhere (although I haven’t been to Nigeria).
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:55am
  - pdm
    
    Oysters too JS – or am I wrong on that.
    
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    October 24, 2024 11:14am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump surprises hurricane victims.
“On January 20th, you’re gonna have, I think, a new crew coming in to do it properly and help you in a proper manner,” Trump promised.
This is why he will win. One of the many reasons.

https://pjnewsletter.com/trump-surprises-hurricane/?
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October 24, 2024 8:48am
- AitchW
  
  I suspect that, if elected, Trump will face the same problem that National has here, an openly hostile public service.
  Any initiative he tries to introduce will be stonewalled, obtructed or simply ignored. The recalcitrant left does passive agressive really well!
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:15am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    But unlike Luxon, Trump has a restructurer par excellence in Elon Musk to do the work.
    
    I expect that there will be some large cuts, but it will take some stand over tactics (i.e. Presidential veto on omnibus spending bills) to get the fat trimmed out of the Federal Budget.
    
    Pork barreling is a big part of US politics and getting a large federal office in your home district or state is part of the tradeoffs.
    
    But Musk is making a lot of noise about deficits and public debt levels, so if Trump gets in expect some action
    
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    October 24, 2024 10:04am
    - imalwaysright
      
      “Pork barreling is a big part of US politics and getting a large federal office in your home district or state is part of the tradeoffs.”
      It used to be the trading of government manufacturing jobs but it looks like states such as Texas and Florida have taken the initiative and made it beneficial for all employers to move to their states.
      Newscombe (😀) in California has inadvertently become an asset to the rest of the non sanctuary states.
      
      4 1
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      October 24, 2024 12:19pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Thing is Trump is not scared of the public service. Luxon shakes in his boots.
    
    10 2
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    October 24, 2024 10:11am
    - imalwaysright
      
      S.O
      Luxons Achilles heel is his desire to adhere to what he calls “convention”.
      Ya can’t do this, ya can’t do that, bullshit.
      He should realise that the country is paralysed and we can’t do anything.
      His job is to cut out the parasites that are sucking the lifeblood out of this country.
      Otherwise we are dead.
      But at least it will be according to convention.
      
      6 1
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      October 24, 2024 12:24pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Trump … problem .. hostile public service.
    
    Not the same – a new president gets to appoint the top end of all government agencies. I’m not suggesting that is better, but it is certainly different.
    
    If you are at all interested, the process (and some of the fishhooks) is all described quite well in Michael Lewis’s book “The Fifth Risk”
    
    4 2
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    October 24, 2024 12:36pm
- Inandout
  
  SO, my Norton had hissyfit and thought this link was a threat so I was warned. Obviously I ignored the warning.
  
  7 1
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  October 24, 2024 9:29am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    My Norton didn’t do anything. Came to me by email.
    
    4 2
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    October 24, 2024 10:25am
  - pdm
    
    My Kaspersky insists on telling me not to visit Lindsay Mitchells blog page.
    
    3 0
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    October 24, 2024 11:15am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Not sure if you guys are joking but there is a huge (largely dark) network of woke gatekeeping when it comes advertising. Much like the ESG woke network, it tries to bully companies not to advertise with non-woke platforms and channels. Most likely sneakily funded by woke govts and woke-hypocrite billionaires.
      
      2 1
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      October 24, 2024 3:11pm
  - PurplePen
    
    Haven’t bothered with antivirus software beyond what comes with the Windows operating system. Never had an issue, meaning … don’t waste money on any specific antivirus software.
    
    4 1
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    October 24, 2024 1:34pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Serious? The Windows Operating System?
      You are still using Windows XP right?
      
      1 3
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      October 24, 2024 3:52pm
Matt Long

In an extremely significant move, the government has stopped Regional Councils Implementing Fresh Water Plans based on David Parker’s stupidity.
It’s been a good week for National and the Country but a bad week for marxist loons.
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/extremely-disappointing-orc-axes-vote-environment-plan#m2jwr9xfwpj5d1gvpti
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October 24, 2024 8:53am
Burtland

Changing world order?

Seems the UNs chief socialist, Guterre, has seen the writing on the wall and is looking for a new job with the mafia nation and BRIC.

Guterre keeps telling us we’re are all going to fry but happily attends global soirees hosted by ICC criminals and the worlds largest CO2 emitters.

Meanwhile the US has a bad case of head up its bum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHyIv2fEGkA
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October 24, 2024 8:59am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Guiterrez is in the same Mould as Jacinda. He was President of Socialist International and she President of the International Union of Socialist Youth!!!!
  
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  October 24, 2024 11:13am
greenfinger

Tory Whanau still hanging around as Mayor and ratepayers is still funding her lifestyle. Need to put up a “loss of confidence” vote as the first agenda items at the next council meeting, surely? She is backtracking on all her promises. She has no credibility anymore even with the greenies.
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October 24, 2024 9:09am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Need to put up a “loss of confidence” vote as the first agenda items at the next council meeting,..”
  
  No point. She would win that vote. Even if she lost such a vote, it is not like parliament. She could ignore it.
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:21am
- peterwn
  
  She cannot afford to resign.
  She is also to some extent an author of her own misfortune. She has continually thumbed her nose and worse at the non leftwing councillors and these councillors would now welcome the appointment of an Observer or even a Commissioner.
  As Sun Tzu said “Keep your friends close; keep your enemies closer.”
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:35am
  - artemisia
    
    The assignment of an observer is an excellent opportunity for councillors to take advantage of the experience. I hope they take that opportunity.
    
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    October 24, 2024 10:10am
- Inandout
  
  green, Tory will remain until such time as Simeon allows otherwise. Don’t expect her to be ejected.
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:35am
  - rouppe
    
    She will see out her term.
    
    By appointing an observer, you have to give time for the observer to observe. That will take the best part of six months, especially over Christmas.
    
    Then it’s only 6 months to the LG election in October 2025. I’d be surprised a commissioner were put in there at that point.
    
    In October, more than likely, Wellington residents will elect another council comprising a majority of left leaning councillors. There will be another year of chaos, and any commissioner will be put in before the general election 2026.
    
    Just spit balling though
    
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    October 24, 2024 11:12am
  - pdm
    
    She sure as hell will not walk.
    
    6 0
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    October 24, 2024 11:17am
  - PurplePen
    
    I suspect Simeon’s meeting with Tory, where he let her do all the talking, was a way of assessing the mayor, whether they were fit and proper.
    
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    October 24, 2024 1:39pm
Burtland

is this a metaphor for NZ ?

$700k dogs breakfast – rainbow crossing takes on a new meaning

“The design used was new to Christchurch, Transport Operations Manager Stephen Wright said” – well theres a porky – theres actually dozens of them.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350456762/major-christchurch-roundabout-upgrade-abomination-some-road-users-say
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October 24, 2024 9:11am
- MCōs
  
  Reading the article it depends on your point of view.
  Some people don’t like it and some people do.
  I note opinion was equally divided about whether there should have been lights.
  Roundabouts are an alternative to lights and are a much cheaper option to install.
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:39am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    On your last para I agree. However this intersection is not suitable for a round about. And I am a fan of round abouts. See my other comment.
    
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    October 24, 2024 9:58am
    - Skippytony
      
      I use that intersection every day. The first rule of roundabouts is give way to the right, correct? So as you approach the roundabout, 80% of your attention is on approaching traffic, mainly coming from the right and directly opposite you.
      They have added speed humps to the exits.
      So you chuck a hard left and in 10 feet you have a pedestrian crossing. Outside a pub.
      Should have been lights there for sure.
      This design only makes sense if everyone is travelling at walking pace, which CCC seems determined to inflict on the entire city.
      
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      October 24, 2024 10:11am
      - Chris Nisbet
        
        We have a roundabout here by the Meadowlands shopping center rhat sounds very similar to this one. The roundabout itself is fine, but for some mysterious reason they decided to put pedestrian crossings with a few meters of the exits. The result is that traffic backs up into the roundabout if more than a car or two are held up by pedestrians. Of course, the crossing is also raised, which means that even if there isn’t anybody crossing, the cars taking the exit slow to a bloody crawl to get over it, which also affect traffic at the roundabout. How anybody determined this was a safe place to put crossings I don’t know.
        
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        October 24, 2024 11:56am
      - kowtow
        
        which CCC seems determined to inflict on the entire city.
        
        It appears to be across the whole country .
        
        Anti car councils .
        
        Without a specific mandate .
        
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        October 24, 2024 12:27pm
    - Jack5
      
      Regarding the technicolour roundabout: Is someone going to put up their hand for the colour blind?
      
      About one in 12 men is colour blind to some degree.
      
      https://colourblind.co.nz/pages/about-colour-blindness
      
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      October 24, 2024 10:29am
      - OlderChas
        
        Can only find this as a way to report that I clicked Report on Chris Nisbet’s comment in error. Sorry Chris – and mods if you wasted time looking into it.
        
        [Mod – don’t worry about]
        
        2 0
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        October 24, 2024 1:28pm
  - Geri Sjovik
    
    Do the Aussie thing and have lights in the roundabout.
    
    That always struck me as the worst of both things.
    
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    October 24, 2024 11:05am
- AitchW
  
  I live near a small Waikato town. The council has for the last few years been hell bent on building cycle ways, narrowing roads and generally confounding traffic.
  Their latest thought bubble is to narrow the approaches to a roundabout on an arterial road used by hundreds of trucks each week, including b train tankers, adding raised pedestrian refuges (no pedestrian crossings, traffic has right of way but pedestrians and cyclists miss the distinction) and putting a ring of judder bars round the existing roundabout to make its radius much bigger.
  The b trains can’t get round without running over the judder bars which started to fall apart within days of installation.
  And the poor old rate payer has to cough up for this nonsense out of already exorbitant rates.
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:43am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Why do the green idiot plant trees in the middle of the roundabouts? The ones in Te Rapa Hamilton are plain stupid. You can’t see the traffic, so you can’t read the roundabout.
    
    16 2
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    October 24, 2024 10:41am
    - kowtow
      
      It literally defeats the purpose of road safety . Downright dangerous .
      
      And they call themselves experts!
      
      Just another exhibit proving the anti car agenda .
      
      9 1
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      October 24, 2024 12:30pm
- imalwaysright
  
  As a side note, these new designs for crossings and cycle lanes have so many differing painted shapes, colours, road mounted guides and obstructions that it is now very easy to miss seeing pedestrians, especially kids, and cyclists. Especially when they are stationary.
  Its like looking at a kaleidoscope sometimes.
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:51am
  - PurplePen
    
    and there’s no consistency as to the height or slope of speed bumps anywhere.
    
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    October 24, 2024 1:43pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  My 2 cents worth. I have not been through that round about in a while but I am familiar with it. IMO it should be replaced by a controlled intersection.
  
  It is dangerous. For two related reasons. It is relatively small in diameter but high in traffic volumes. If there is heavy traffic entering the round about, the cars waiting have trouble finding a gap big enough to shoot in. That leads to frustration and crashes.
  
  The council seems to have misdiagnosed the problem. They have installed things to slow the cars down. That will just lead to more frustration. Also from the photos, the intersection is now visually confusing.
  
  Put simply, the intersection is not suitable for a round about.
  
  Here is what would have worked. Appoint a committee of about seven intelligent drivers who use the intersection every day. Task them with coming up with a solution.
  
  Or appoint an activist group of council officials who consult with thousands of people. Then apply a te ao Maori framework.
  
  I wish I was kidding.
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:55am
  - Taieri
    
    Also from the photos, the intersection is now visually confusing.
    ———–
    
    Driving in Christchurch recently I was struck by all these green painted patches on several intersections. Very confusing, particularly the Riccarton Rd – Middleton Rd intersection, the cycleway there is almost the same width as the “main” carriageway and very similarly marked and easy to be mistaken for the latter at night.
    
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    October 24, 2024 10:03am
  - Burtland
    
    Or engage a consultancy like Viastrada, staffed by ex council knuckleheads, to redesign the intersection at even greater cost
    
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    October 24, 2024 10:43am
  - rangitoto
    
    A while ago on the North Shore at the intersection of Carlisle Road and Firth Road, the muppets installed a raised island to force vehicles to do a sharper turn coming up Carlisle as a traffic calming measure, this meant that buses had to cross on to the wrong side of the road to get around the corner. The raised island was then removed and replaced with painted markings which are ignored.
    
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    October 24, 2024 11:12am
- I remember when
  
  Burtland:
  Another artistic masterpiece.
  Sponsored by Resene?
  There so many things capturing your attention that their ability to reduce accidents could be questioned.
  
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  October 24, 2024 10:15am
- wsk12345
  
  Ive been through that at least 4 times recently bith on bike and car. Thought they had just painted some more lines, didn’t see any real difference from how it was before. Never get unsafe on a bike to me though many other parts of Christchurch do.
  
  $700k aye.
  
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  October 24, 2024 12:29pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The Ministry of Education knows that NZ has a massive gap in educational attainment between children from different socio-economic backgrounds.

Even though $8.5 Billion went into primary & secondary school education (yrs 1- 13) this last year, the Min of Ed has no real handle on the achievement (or lack of achievement) of children in primary and intermediate years (1-10 years).

https://oag.parliament.nz/2024/educational-outcomes

So Basically… if little Jonnie and Tariana start school with crap teachers and continue to be poorly taught, then the Min of Ed has no way of knowing this.

Makes you wonder what all those folks in ERO have been investigating for the last 20+ years.
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October 24, 2024 9:27am
- AitchW
  
  I heard Brooke Van Velden speaking on this matter this morning to the Hosk. What a breath of fresh air.
  Smart, driven, non nonsense, no obfuscation, no bullshit. I wouldn’t want to let her down if I worked for her, I suspect she doesn’t suffer fools!
  After the last 6 years of Labour’s complete incompetence I finally have some optomism that our schools might actually start teaching again and our kids might start learning something useful. And measuring progress so that kids don’t “slip through the cracks”.
  
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  October 24, 2024 9:36am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    She has always been a breath of fresh air. IIRC she was a Green Party supporter. She was converted by attending a speech by David Seymour.
    
    ACT does not get everything right. However the frameworks and criteria that they apply to problem solving will make them come to the best solution more often than not.
    
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    October 24, 2024 10:06am
    - AitchW
      
      BY I reckon that her green views would be a lot more practical and pragmatic than the average Green voter.
      She’s no airhead, I can see her as PM one day.
      
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      October 24, 2024 12:43pm
- I remember when
  
  MW:
  ERO seem to have spent a lot of time ensuring that school’s had their ethnicity, bullying and cultural policies in place.
  They also spent a very limited amount of time sitting, observing in classrooms if it was available.
  Then it was see you in five years or whatever, if you passed their scrutiny.
  
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  October 24, 2024 10:03am
- Benedict Yu
  
  If you read some ERO reports, you will conclude that they are useless. If they were useful, the education system would not be in this mess. Of course Peter Hughes promoted the head of ERO to run the Ministry. Thanks a bunch.
  
  A selection process for a new CE of the Ministry of Education is in progress. I’m not hopeful.
  
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  October 24, 2024 10:09am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Bring back exams with markings in percentages.
  “Performed well” is not a mark and tells nothing.
  
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  October 24, 2024 10:46am
  - Jethrod
    
    Oh it could be a move from an “F ” to a “D-“. You really need to be less judgemental //////.🙂
    
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    October 24, 2024 5:22pm
I remember when

Te Ao Maori News: Te Ao Marama, Rangiora High School’s new cultural centre is open for enlightenment:
The school opened the 1.8 million cultural learning centre, Te Ao Marama, with apowhiri last week after a nine month build.
The building will be used as a classroom. to host performances and for functions.

The rebuild replaced an relatively recent open plan conversion that did not achieve their needs.
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October 24, 2024 9:54am
- greybeard
  
  So, two building wasted.
  
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  October 24, 2024 4:05pm
Maggy Wassilieff

So finally we learn that it is a man (a male)who the cops are looking for in relation to the Bus killing yesterday afternoon.

Police are still looking for the man who fatally stabbed a woman on a bus in Auckland on Wednesday afternoon.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360462148/woman-killed-stabbing-auckland-bus-police-pulling-out-all-stops-find-suspect

Originally the cops stated that there was no need for anyone to be alarmed because they knew who the offender was….

Now it seems that folks are worried… because they hadn’t got a clue as to the identity of the killer.
‘Be careful when out and about today’ – local councillor

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/531739/live-hunt-continues-after-woman-fatally-stabbed-on-auckland-bus
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October 24, 2024 9:55am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yeah that will do wonders for public transport use in Auckland. 😕
  
  From what I have read, my understanding is that pre about 1990, most children in New Zealand made their own way to school by bike, bus, train, or on foot. I doubt many parents wondered whether their child would be stabbed on the bus on the way to school.
  
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  October 24, 2024 10:02am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Being careful when out and about does not stop a meth head with a knife.
  Why are these people not in jail, away from the innocent?
  
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  October 24, 2024 10:51am
  - sirknz
    
    Colonialism, probably…
    
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    October 24, 2024 10:52am
    - pdm
      
      Kelvin Davis more likely.
      
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      October 24, 2024 11:24am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    40 years ago many would have been in “mental asylums”. I’m sure many were horrid places and some folk were in there who should never have been in there. But I think that such institutions have a place.
    
    I have extensive experience dealing with the mental health system in New Zealand, for reasons that I will not disclose.
    
    The actual, real help available to families with (say) a teenager with mental health issues addicted to drugs or alcohol. Pretty much nil.
    
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    October 24, 2024 11:00am
    - Jack5
      
      The core of the mental health system is in a bad way and is worsening – hospitals, nurses, psychiatrists, and clinical psychologists.
      
      Can the Minister of Mental Health’s NZ version of China’s barefoot doctors help, or is it a diversion of urgently needed resources?
      
      The Minister, Matt Doocey, seems intent on recruiting scores of former university students of psychology who didn’t go into health careers and qualify as clinical psychologists. This reflects Doocey’s own pre-politics health career, which included a stint in Britain.
      
      China’s barefoot doctors:
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barefoot_doctor
      
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      October 24, 2024 11:54am
- sirknz
  
  Cool. So we only need be wary of ~half the population today…
  
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  October 24, 2024 10:53am
- SoloView
  
  @ Maggy
  Killer named
  RNZ at 1107 hrs today.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/531739/live-police-release-photo-in-hunt-for-kael-leona-after-fatal-stabbing-on-auckland-bus
  
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  October 24, 2024 11:29am
  - rangitoto
    
    Dud justice system.
    
    “The charges of resisting and obstructing a police officer in Auckland last week laid against Kael Leona, the man now sought for yesterday’s killing aboard a bus in Onehunga, was far from his first brush with the law in recent years.
    
    It is understood he is subject to prison release conditions, meaning he would have had to report to a probation officer regularly.
    
    A little over two weeks ago he was in court on a charge of breaching those release conditions and it appears he was granted bail on that charge.
    
    He was charged last year with threatening to kill or do grievous bodily harm by stabbing, and with doing a threatening act. Leona was up for sentence on those charges in May this year.
    
    Police have launched a homicide investigation following the death of a woman in Onehunga yesterday.”
    
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    October 24, 2024 1:12pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      This is my unsurprised face. The left and the judiciary care nothing for the safety of NZers, they have compassionate virtue for monsters and parasites that must come first!!
      
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      October 24, 2024 3:19pm
      - Keith White
        
        I would prefer the judge who freed this killer on bail faces sanctions, but I know that will not happen.
        
        I can hope the judge regrets her woke stupidity every morning at 0300 for the rest of her taxpayer-funded existence.
        
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        October 24, 2024 4:34pm
- kowtow
  
  It’s shocking .What an indictment of modern NZ.
  
  The powers that be want everyone out of their cars and on the buses.
  
  Yet the buses are becoming very dangerous places to be , for drivers and passengers .
  
  From one end of the country to the other.
  
  “The figures were significantly worse for girls, with 55% saying they did not feel safe and less than 5% saying they felt safe.
  
  Included were long-form answers where teenage girls wrote testimonies of being sexually assaulted and harassed while in the bus hub, trying to catch the bus and when around the inner city.”
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/big-problem-harassment-teen-girls-rife-central-dunedin
  
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  October 24, 2024 12:37pm
  - Keith White
    
    Hey! we gotta pretend that crims must be bailed free to wander and kill, or else where would be be?
    
    We’d be in Paul Kersey Land, that’s where we’d be… where those crims would discover the other reality of FAFO.
    
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    October 24, 2024 4:36pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Well if you double the number of buses that means 50% less stabbing on buses right?
    Is there something wrong with my math, and how I see this??
    
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    October 24, 2024 6:02pm
Philip Hart

Inspector Meade to the Herald on the bus stabbing
“Auckland is a very safe city, this is a very rare event.”

Actually

“Auckland is a very safe city compared to Johannesburg, this is a weekly event.”
And i’m not sure about the first bit
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October 24, 2024 9:56am
- Jack5
  
  This would have been laughable 20 years ago, but do Auckland buses need:
  
  1. Cheap metal detectors at boarding entrances, and bus drivers equipped with tasers which they have been rudimentally trained to use?
  
  2. Plain clothes police, equipped with tasers or pistols, randomly travelling on the buses?
  
  One report said there were 20 or so police on the scene or thereabouts after the attack, and the police force has been expanded, chiefly to police Auckland.
  
  Did I hear the Minister of Police reported as saying reintroduced or increased foot patrols would bring in “intelligence” on criminals.
  
  How about protecting bus passengers as well as vaping-gear shops?
  
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  October 24, 2024 11:27am
  - Cassandra
    
    Sadly the policing method these days always gets them there after the event. The days that a cop might be on the beat and able to stop a crime are long gone.
    
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    October 24, 2024 11:45am
    - Cassandra
      
      I add that there are sky marshalls in planes and cops on NY subway trains for a reason.
      
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      October 24, 2024 11:47am
  - Keith White
    
    “Concealed carry” will sort it out, evolution in action.
    
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    October 24, 2024 12:50pm
    - AitchW
      
      Yeah that’s working really well in the USA…
      
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      October 24, 2024 2:44pm
      - Keith White
        
        Actually it is, buckwheat.
        
        “For medium-to-large cities, research estimated a significant 17-percent reduction in rates of firearm homicide after repeal of “heightened showing may issue” laws and no discernible effect on rates of nonfirearm homicide, resulting in an estimated 13-percent reduction in total homicide rates.
        
        But yeah AW, you and yours can go cower in your hedge hoping the Blue Patched Gang will show up with their Bushmasters in time to save y’all.
        
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        October 24, 2024 4:38pm
  - rouppe
    
    Metal detectors pointless.
    
    Not least because that causes problems with people carrying shopping trundlers, school kids with compass sets, anyone with keys or change in their bags, or a thousand other things.
    
    Also I have a ceramic kitchen knife at home. Just saying…
    
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    October 24, 2024 1:19pm
    - Jack5
      
      The police in Britain find metal detectors useful:
      
      https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52734768
      
      And, combined with artificial intelligence, detectors now or imminently will be able to sift out many or most guns and knives.
      
      https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52734768
      
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      October 24, 2024 2:22pm
- MCōs
  
  There’s about 220 murders annually in Johannesburg
  In Auckland maybe thirty plus another 20+ road deaths
  
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  October 24, 2024 11:53am
  - Jack5
    
    Cossie, so crime-ridden Johannesburg (population 6.25 million) has a lot more murders than Auckland?
    
    Auckland’s okay then.
    
    Johannesburg isn’t even one of the three most dangerous cities in South Africa.
    
    https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/712786/these-3-south-african-cities-now-rank-among-the-20-most-violent-in-the-world/
    🙃
    
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    October 24, 2024 12:02pm
  - cmm
    
    “Not as bad as Johannesburg” is hardly a comparison anyone should want to be making.
    
    Johannesburg CBD is a lot safer than the areas with old mine dumps etc – especially in the areas where the Zama-Zama illegal miners fight turf wars with AK47s.
    
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    October 24, 2024 4:24pm
    - Keith White
      
      Johannesburg ex-CBD Is absolutely in 100% not at all safe. Even the place so suburban that the former CBD occupants migrated to, Sandton, is not safe at all.
      
      Gauteng is basically locked down unless you have private security, yes, the whole province.
      
      Walking 100m from a four-star hotel to the local shopping mall, I was advised by the hotel security staff that they wanted to watch me until I had made it across the road, and up a 50 m pathway, to have entered the mall securely.
      
      It’s difficult, in fact impossible, to get people to understand just how insecure, dangerous and lethal so many places have become around the world, because we did and do not enforce the rule of law in the good old Anglo-Saxon fashion.
      
      As Kipling warned us, “The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!”
      
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      October 24, 2024 4:56pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Murders and road deaths.
    “One of these things is not like the other”
    Sesame St – it’s on the you tube
    
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    October 24, 2024 6:07pm
Damocles11

Police have named the suspect they are hunting for in connection to the brutal murder of a woman on an Auckland bus. The victim was unknown to the attacker.

‘Acting Detective Inspector Alisse Robertson spoke from Auckland central police station in Freemans Bay.
Robertson released pictures of the man they are looking for in relation to the attack who’s name is Kael Austin Leona. Police are still searching for Leona.’
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October 24, 2024 11:52am
- JimBobJoe
  
  His rap sheet referenced on the article is short but I would suspect he has a much long history of violence and he is obviously a deranged and violent person…
  
  Life with no parole seems about. Right if convicted…
  
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  October 24, 2024 2:28pm
cmm

Here’s one of the big problems with subsidies – they tilt the playing field and, it seems, the only fix is to add more subsidies!

Cruise ships lay on buses for up to $39 for a return ticket from Lyttelon to Christchurch but short-armed passengers would rather queue up for an hour or more to use Christchurch’s subsidised buses for only $2.

Last year the “solution” was for ECan to spend an extra $360,000 on subsidizing buses for to increase volumes. That is around $12,000 a day. Assuming 1000 cruise passengers a day use this service that is a subsidy of around $12 each that ECan ratepayers are paying.

These are packed buses, so you wouldn’t think they would need much in the way of subsidies. Still, $70k of ticket sales needed $360k of top ups. That suggests that selling the tickets for $15 each would have broken even.

Imagine how awful the business model is for typical passenger usage – two or three passengers per bus. It really would be cheaper to provide “free” taxis – not that I am suggesting that at all.

Without the cruise passengers, those Lytteton buses must be losing somewhere around $30 per passenger – $30 that must be provided by the rate payer.

https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/350436041/ecan-fund-cruise-ship-buses-after-all
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October 24, 2024 12:14pm
- rangitoto
  
  Someone calculated that it would be cheaper to fly the Hamilton to/from Papakura passengers by helicopter than use Cindy’s Te Huia train set.
  
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  October 24, 2024 1:19pm
  - MCōs
    
    Intercity passenger rail has had its day in NZ. Overtaken by the car for trips such as Auckland/Hamilton or aeroplane.
    We drove down to Hamilton the other day to see a friend in hospital. About 90min each way on safe four lane highways.
    I wouldn’t have minded the train, but it’s an hour longer and the stations are nowhere near our home or destination.
    
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    October 24, 2024 4:23pm
- MCōs
  
  You should have been here when we had the Sheep Retention Scheme. I can’t remember what the purpose was now, but the station owners out the back of Timaru made a killing.
  NZ sheep numbers peaked at 70.3mil in the early eighties and tailed off as the Lange government removed in excess of twenty agrarian sector subsidies. Now with wool and lamb prices in the doldrums the number is about 24mil
  Fortunately dairy, tourism etc have picked up the slack in export revenue
  
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  October 24, 2024 1:24pm
  - Mike
    
    Some people thought subsidized farming was a public service; some people didn’t. Some people think subsidized transport is a public service; some people don’t.
    The perspective varies depending upon whether one is a recipient or a contributor to the activity in question.
    
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    October 24, 2024 1:41pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    We had a Lamb Mountain and a Butter Mountain and we were sending ship load of Mutton and Butter to Russia in exchange for Lada Cars.
    
    USSR even offered to exchange Frigates for the RNZN as payment for the goods.
    
    5 2
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    October 24, 2024 2:12pm
  - AitchW
    
    It doesn’t help that overseas investors are buying drystock farms and planting them in stinky old pinus radiata.
    
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    October 24, 2024 3:02pm
  - Grunter
    
    Muldoon’s socialist regime, he used it as a vote catcher (the rural vote). It was one of the stupidest policies he had. Freezing works were literally putting lamb carcasses through the shedder and rendering them down as they had no more freezer space and no market at any price. But the Muldoon Govt still paid the farmer to breed more lambs. 🤡🤡
    
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    October 24, 2024 3:29pm
  - Handyman
    
    At the time the Sheep Retention Scheme was more accurately called the Vote Retention Scheme.
    
    1 2
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    October 24, 2024 4:14pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Dairy – but cows fart.
    
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    October 24, 2024 6:10pm
Swifty

More, more, more!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/531728/media-job-cuts-how-many-roles-have-gone-and-where

Much more!
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October 24, 2024 1:52pm
Conservatarian

Classic leftist logic: it is actually political interference if the media DOESN’T intervene in an election.

The LA Times owner Patrick Soon-Shiong, a billionaire doctor who purchased the paper in 2018 for USD $500m, blocked the paper’s editorial board’s decision to endorse Kamala Harris in the presidential election (the paper started endorsing in 2008 of course).

Mariel Garza, the leader of the LA Times’ editorial board, resigned in protest, saying the owner’s decision not to endorse a presidential candidate raised questions about potential political interference.

Garza went crying to the Columbia Journalism Review – the academic theory wing of the Democrat-media-academia complex – and cited commonplace lib tropes such as “how dangerous Trump is to democracy”, and Trump’s “unfitness to be president” and “threats to jail his enemies.”

Garza also suffered sand in her crack when “Donald Trump turned it into an anti-Harris rip.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/23/media/los-angeles-times-endorsement-harris-resign/index.html
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October 24, 2024 2:50pm
kevn

This is an interesting comment…
https://x.com/megbasham/status/1848345860385423598
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October 24, 2024 3:13pm
Swifty

Bill Ackman speaks a lot of sense about Trump, the Dems, etc etc care of the Triggernometry team.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EJLlJmxPS2k

A lot.
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October 24, 2024 3:22pm
cmm

While we might moan about government entities, it seems NZ is losing its shine in many ways. Maybe the people that care have left NZ and gone elsewhere.

In the last week I have had three interactions with couriers: one sending a package and two receiving.

The sending package was to Howick in South Africa. Howick is a shabby little town about 100km North West of Durban and 15km from Pietermaritzburg. After a slow start in NZ, the package arrived on time. Transit time from Johannesburg to Howick (via Pietermaritzburg) was just over 24 hours. Not bad for a 500km trip in corrupt and broken South Africa.

The two inwards parcels are different. Two days after being sent (from Bulgaria and USA) they arrived in Auckland. Auckland to delivery in Christchurch then took 5 days. One of the parcels was delivered a day later than the “guaranteed latest” delivery date.

HTF is a modern, western economy supposed to be built on the back of that?

Maybe nobody cares any more.
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October 24, 2024 4:07pm
- Ghost
  
  I had a parcel from china arrived in Auckland tuesday morning, was in Christchurch Tuesday night, delivered yesterday. A parcel from Auckland left there Wednesday arrived today. Im due to buy some pills from the usa. They always seem to take ages to leave the usa. Ive even had them get to the airport in San Fransisco, then back to UPS, back to the airport. One time they took three weeks travelling around the usa before then going to Japan, Australia, then NZ.
  
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  October 24, 2024 4:15pm
  - MCōs
    
    One of my sisters sent me a birthday card to our address in Bangkok, but it went next door. We knew the neighbours well, but they didn’t recognize my name on the envelope and sent it back to NZ.
    
    I bought a super expensive iPhone in Onehunga which conked out while still under warranty
    I took it back and they sent it to be fixed out near the airport. It was repaired and given back to the courier and went to China where it disappeared into the ether.
    I rang the supplier, the repairer, the courier and they all said they’d exchanged phone calls among each other, but mother happened
    Finally I rang Apple in Sydney and they sent a replacement the next day gratis, plus a $350 gift voucher. They know how to smooth ruffled feathers
    
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    October 24, 2024 4:45pm
- gorse
  
  That was quick. A package sent from Brisbane to me nearly three weeks ago is still stuck in Customs. Apparently I owe GST on it, which is odd as I paid the GST when it was purchased through an NZ website. After an hour on hold I spoke a person from NZ Post, who said Customs posted me a letter last Friday which still hadn’t arrived. When this does get sorted, I am looking at a one month delivery, from Brisbane. How is an economy going to get built on that.
  
  You are right, they don’t care anymore.
  
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  October 24, 2024 4:22pm
- Keith White
  
  Many of us care, yet there is nothing we can do short of a revolution. Me, I’m too old and tired to do the whole Bastille thing.
  
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  October 24, 2024 4:45pm
- greybeard
  
  cmm, Ghost & MCos: you people seem to live on a different planet to the rest of us: does your life really depend on all of this overseas crap ?
  
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  October 24, 2024 7:07pm
  - Ghost
    
    Actually yes. Because the only thing that works for my POTs is an American made supplement that can only be purchased from the usa.
    
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    October 24, 2024 7:20pm
Ghost

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says is incredibly saddened and shocked at the violent death of a female passenger on an Auckland bus who died in a random stabbing.

Article

Sad for her family and friends, yes. But is anyone shocked? Once upon a time I would be. Now it’s just another story in the media. It’s not something rare that is shocking it’s something that has become common place.
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October 24, 2024 4:25pm
- Swifty
  
  I frequently find myself saying to my Indian flattie that “New Zealand never used to be like this.”
  
  I’m sure he believes me but I think he finds it hard to comprehend.
  
  My teenage kids too.
  
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  October 24, 2024 4:35pm
- Keith White
  
  We need to be able to defend ourselves in public.
  
  That cannot happen because Coster, Cahill, Luxon, Ardern & Co require that only they can be protected by arms. And only they deserve to be.
  
  The rest of us can just die quietly, if badly, because we are Not Important Enough.
  
  7 1
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  October 24, 2024 4:48pm
Swifty

Go Mad Dog!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360464194/former-act-leader-richard-prebble-appointed-waitangi-tribunal

I hope he is charged with developing the plan for the tribunal’s disestablishment.
10 0
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October 24, 2024 5:20pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yes, and Tuku won’t like that!
  
  5 0
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  October 24, 2024 6:15pm
Ghost

Former ACT Party leader Richard Prebble has been appointed to the Waitangi Tribunal.

The Honourable Richard Prebble, Commander of the British Empire, is one of two new members to be appointed, Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka said in a statement on Thursday.

Article
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October 24, 2024 5:49pm
- Colville
  
  Cat amongst the pigeons… Feathers will fly!
  
  8 0
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  October 24, 2024 5:52pm
- MCōs
  
  I’m surprised he’s still got all his marbles
  He’s older than me and I haven’t
  
  1 0
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  October 24, 2024 7:35pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh dear, oh dear…

Ministry of Health white-anting Associate Min of Health.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/531809/ministry-of-health-apologises-to-minister-over-failure-to-disclose-conflict-of-interest
5 0
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October 24, 2024 6:05pm
- Scooter
  
  There’s been something very underhand and deceitful about Verral right from the start. For Hipkins to say a distant relative, when it’s her sister-in-law, he’s either been lied to or he’s bending the truth. Sister-in-law is as close a relative as a sibling is to a person, not in blood terms but in all other sense. Of course if it was the Nat’s, the media would be all over this.
  
  Labour’s Chris Hipkins, who described the individual as a “distant relative” of Verrall’s. He said, “any conflicts have been declared and managed” and “she has assured me there is no issue here”. Verrall in a statement said she was “confident” the conflict had been declared.
  
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  October 24, 2024 7:25pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    
    Just a very convenient oversight …
    
    4 0
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    October 24, 2024 8:04pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360462182/recurring-nightmares-payout-woman-raped-escaped-prisoner
“Three staff were sanctioned, while another quit.
Last year, when asked why no-one had lost their job, Kean said: “Our reviews of the incident determined that the escape occurred as a result of systemic failures. It was not the result of one sole cause, factor or person.””
This is disgusting: the staff involved should not only have been fired but charged with a multitude of offences.
The three staff who were “sanctioned” are presumably still employed at this facility.
Name them and the one who quit, or there is every chance that others will suffer in future from these peoples’ failings.
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October 24, 2024 7:28pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And what do you imagine will happen to the folks in OT who ignored 9 separate pieces of evidence that little kiddies were being repeatedly and violently assaulted by their mother’s boyfriend?
  
  https://www.ombudsman.parliament.nz/resources/failure-oranga-tamariki-investigate-reports-concern-and-complaints
  
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  October 24, 2024 8:11pm

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