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October 23, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 October 2024

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General Debate

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Yvette

• … Peter Ellis was not Māori. Nor were the complainants. The case had no Māori connection whatever. Yet the majority judges held tikanga to be relevant.

• The tikanga regulations make it compulsory for all students commencing a law degree from 1 January 2025 to complete a subject on the general principles and practices of tikanga Māori | Māori laws and philosophy, and for tikanga Māori | Māori laws and philosophy to be included in all other subjects which are part of the compulsory requirements for the LLB and LLB Honours degrees.

• The Ellis family never received any direct correspondence from any government agency, or the Crown, following the 2022 decision. Not even a personal letter.

• Two years on from the Supreme Court’s miscarriage of justice ruling in the Christchurch Civic Creche case, and the Minister of Justice says there are no plans for compensation or an apology

So, all up, is it perhaps reasonable to think in the Peter Ellis case, that Peter Ellis’ mana and remembered legacy has been used and trashed as a Trojan Horse to introduce a tikanga agenda, which doesn’t seem to apply in the fullest manner whatsoever in Peter Ellis’ case?

The Supreme court advocated –

• The Court was unanimous that tikanga has been and will continue to be recognised in the development of the common law of New Zealand in cases where it is relevant. Notably, this was simply a confirmation by the Court, rather than a new development.

“It is true that the appeal concerns a Pākehā appellant and none of the complainants are Māori as far as we are aware. The principles developed on posthumous appeals must, however, be capable of meeting the needs of all New Zealanders, including Māori. … “ Glazebrook J’s judgment (Supreme Court)
https://www.russellmcveagh.com/insights-news/whakamaramatanga-series-supreme-court-considers-place-of-tikanga-in-the-law-judgment-on-continuation-of-ellis-appeal/.

• The Supreme Court judgment on the use of tikanga is audacious.
It hijacked the Peter Ellis case to insert the issue of tikanga into it when neither of the parties before it had sought it.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/peter-ellis-case-supreme-courts-audacious-decision-on-tikanga-audrey-young/CEG73GETMN3S47LKUHFJ5S2XY4/

• Peter Ellis appeal derailed by legal curveball on possible tikanga Māori approach
The case was adjourned for five weeks to allow both sides to bring submissions addressing the issue of tikanga, and will continue in the new year. [it in fact took longer, and several asssembled experts later]
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117435500/peter-ellis-appeal-derailed-by-legal-curveball-on-possible-tikanga-mori-approach

Has the Supreme Court of New Zealand perhaps with the Peter Ellis case, in its attached general notoriety, introduced a tikanga agenda, purportedly relating to the respect of Peter Ellis’ reputation, but in fact using the utter disrespect of the case overall, to make its own case?
I am sorry Judge, I withdraw that and the readers will disregard my last comment.

“No plans for compensation or an apology” – tikanga? ‘tapu’ or ‘utu’ ?
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October 23, 2024 8:01am
- Paulus
  
  No wonder once again we should review the Helen Clark creation if the New Zealand Supreme Court, when the Privy Council would have taken an alternate view,k as not Maori influenced.
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:29am
  - peterwn
    
    UK Government wanted to stop providing an appeal service to other nations (apart from its colonies). So NZ had no option but to transition away from the Privy Council.
    Helen Clark and Margaret Wilson did want to hand-pick the judges but there was pushback. So while the Chief Justice was handpicked, the other appointed judges were the longest serving Court of Appeal judges at the time.
    It recently occurred to me that the head of the Supreme Court should rotate among the judges with 5 year terms as I think happens for the ‘heads’ of the other courts.
    
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    October 23, 2024 11:22am
    - Jack5
      
      Given the activism of many judges, NZ democracy might have been safer if we had kept appeals to the UK Privy Council.
      
      New Zealand ended right of appeal to the Privy Council in 2004.
      
      A dozen small Commonwealth countries still use it as their highest court of appeal.
      
      According to this British judicial system site, these include the Cook Islands, Niue, Kiribati, Tuvalu, plus some appeals from Brunei.
      
      Labour’s drive to end appeals to the Privy Council was led by Margaret Wilson.
      
      You can read the argument details here:
      
      https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/00PLLawRP03031/809fc35d39dccf4f8bbd0cf937ad94cd4725f04d
      
      The Privy Council’s online “beginner’s guide”:
      
      https://www.supremecourt.uk/docs/beginners-guide-to-the-judicial-committee-of-the-privy-council.pdf
      
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      October 24, 2024 12:56am
- pdm
  
  Yvette have you seen Roger Partridges piece on the Supreme Court – as part of my post at No Minister with a link to a similar piece by Damien Grant on Sunday 20 October?
  https://nominister.wordpress.com/2024/10/20/the-solicitor-general-is-done-we-hope-next-up-supreme-court-judges/
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:48am
  - Yvette
    
    pdm, I agree both with the findings listed and the proposed corrections
    
    • The Supreme Court has adopted a loose approach to interpreting laws passed by Parliament, often stretching or ignoring clear statutory language.
    • Judges are reshaping common law principles based on their perceptions of changing social values, despite lacking democratic accountability for such policy decisions.
    • This judicial overreach is making laws more uncertain and unpredictable, undermining the rule of law and the sovereignty of Parliament.
    
    The report recommends several legislative strategies to address these issues:
    
    1 Passing targeted legislation to overturn problematic court decisions.
    2 More clearly defined statutory guardrails to stop the courts from straying beyond their proper role.
    3 Improving judicial appointment processes to emphasise the need for judicial restraint and respect for parliamentary sovereignty.
    https://nominister.wordpress.com/2024/10/20/the-solicitor-general-is-done-we-hope-next-up-supreme-court-judges/
    
    New Zealand Supreme Court perhaps reflects that of the United States, where their Supreme Court was stacked by President Donald Trump. Trump named three U.S. Supreme Court justices to Biden’s one, giving it a 6-3 conservative supermajority.
    
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    October 23, 2024 11:01am
    - rouppe
      
      The timing of appointments is random, relying on an existing supreme court judge to retire or die.
      
      Notwithstanding that, all presidents stacked the Supreme Court
      
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      October 23, 2024 12:01pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        They would if they had the chance rouppe. Republican nominations have pretty much dominated the US Supreme Court since the mid 50’s. It’s just that at 6 – 3, there isn’t as much wiggle room for a conservative Justice to flip as there would be at 5 – 4. There has been a good deal of Bayesian method analysis of the ideological leanings of all Justices. It’s quite interesting how many of them become more liberal in their decision making as time goes by.
        
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        October 23, 2024 1:49pm
- Burtland
  
  so where does the victor eating the vanquished stand
  – how does a vegetarian get justice?
  
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  October 23, 2024 10:08am
  - Yvette
    
    Burtland – how does a vegetarian get justice?
    
    You may legally interact with the Waitangi Tribunal only if you are of Maori descent.
    So kumara can but potatoes may not
    
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    October 23, 2024 11:05am
- Notsofast
  
  Good point.
  Absolutely no Maori connection.
  This is the cult of Maori on major mission creep.
  It is spreading and taxing the population with no accountability.
  
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  October 23, 2024 10:16am
- PurplePen
  
  By what logic do they get from this (summary version of the ToW):
  
  “Māori cede the sovereignty of New Zealand to Britain; Māori give the Crown an exclusive right to buy lands they wish to sell and, in return, are guaranteed full rights of ownership of their lands, forests, fisheries and other possessions; and Māori are given the rights and privileges of British subjects.”
  
  to this:
  
  “tikanga has been and will continue to be recognised in the development of the common law of New Zealand.”
  
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  October 23, 2024 10:58am
  - Keith White
    
    They see a trough and want to slurp from it, that’s the whole of their strategy.
    
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    October 23, 2024 11:42am
    - JeffW
      
      Sorry, fat fingers
      
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      October 23, 2024 4:41pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Plus those in on the gravy train get extra kudos at those upper middle class dinner parties for playing the ultra woke game. Very important! Don’t want to be cast into outer darkness for appearing “far right”!
      
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      October 23, 2024 6:57pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Forests & fisheries were not in the original document.
    
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    October 23, 2024 12:02pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      As long as there is a vague consensus amongst the woke minority, making shit up on that is all good.
      
      Following the “progressive” “vibe” is what is most important for not being expelled from the woke poser community.
      
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      October 23, 2024 6:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Sixth Woman Added To Cast Of ‘The View’

https://babylonbee.com/news/sixth-woman-added-to-cast-of-the-view?
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October 23, 2024 8:03am
- Tom Hunter
  
  That was done to target young men for the Harris-Walz campaign – because everybody knows that’s the primary demographic of The View.
  
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  October 23, 2024 8:38am
  - MCōs
    
    Plus Steve it seems
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:32am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Lefties seem to always struggle with satire.
      
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      October 23, 2024 2:06pm
- G152
  
  Why a woman?????? They are so crazy it should be something in full drag
  
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  October 23, 2024 8:39am
- Tom Hunter
  
  “My theory on the great liberal McDonalds freakout is this: Donald Trump is not allowed to have fun. Remember, he is the physical avatar of humanity’s cruelty, evil, and malice. The left has also spent a large amount of time, money, and energy though both media and legal campaigns, targeting his livelihood and even his personal freedom all to ensure that the man can never crack a smile again for the rest of his life. And then he did. While donning an apron and serving fries. They can’t handle it.”
  
  More trolling of the legacy media at that link. The latest one was some AI generated image of Trump as a 1970’s member of the famous, bone-crushing Pittsburgh Steelers football team – which the legacy media scurried to inform people was fake and pathetic.
  
  As J D Vance said to one of them the other day, “Do you hear yourself?”
  
  Richard Grenell @RichardGrenell
  51 former intelligence officials say Kamala worked at @McDonalds.
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:16am
artemisia

Samantha Morton, Greymouth High School principal, interviewed this morning by Ryan Bridge on NewstalkZB. Almost completely negative about the revamped school lunch programme. Says she has “a lot of concerns”, and named – the food (vaguely based on reasons), the local supplier losing jobs, what’s included in the per lunch price. And “Just because you’re poor doesn’t mean you should be given whatever.”

Ms Morton, and others in the sector complaining, could consider the example they are setting to the students. Like a negative example of how to moan in public about change rather than setting a positive example of actually dealing with change.

Even “let’s give it a go” would be an advance on “it won’t work even though we don’t know yet”.
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October 23, 2024 8:04am
- cmm
  
  It seems to me that those lunches were a vast step up from the splodge of spaghetti in tomato sauce offered by Cindy’s mob.
  
  Still, I think the major benefit from a school feeding scheme is lost in this effort. Hand outs of food are:
  1) Not really appreciated.
  2) Do not have any real educational value.
  3) Do not break the inter-generational cycles of nutritional incompetence.
  
  If they really must have a school lunch programme then it is far better to involve the children in making the food. They can then learn a whole lot of skills as well as learning to feed themselves and the social function of helping others.
  
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  October 23, 2024 8:13am
  - G152
    
    That sounds to much like education and you know how schools hate that
    
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    October 23, 2024 8:41am
    - Burtland
      
      making your own got cancelled pretty quick
      
      – the kids who brought their own had them taken away and thrown out
      
      DEI in action – equality is good – CINDY 101
      
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      October 23, 2024 11:02am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Children making the food would be great learning.
    Obviously the kids parents were not taught how to make a sandwich at school, so someone else has to make them.
    
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    October 23, 2024 8:42am
    - Ian
      
      Goodness, surely they can be taught to make a sandwich at home and take it to school with them….
      
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      October 23, 2024 8:51am
      - Flossie
        
        I am reminded of the “give a man a fish and he’ll eat today, or teach him to fish and he’ll eat every day” kind of thing.
        
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        October 23, 2024 9:14am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Flossie,
        They want the Govt to give them a fish every day.
        
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        October 23, 2024 9:53am
      - Burtland
        
        it got updated by Cindy
        “give a man KFC and he’ll want it everyday”
        
        surprised Labour didnt buy it – they could have fed the country
        
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        October 23, 2024 10:39am
      - kowtow
        
        Flossie
        
        Yes he can feed himself for life ……but then along came the Greens and other urban dwelling fascists such as the neo Labourites and te legacy meedia paahti who said fishing and other self responsible and useful skills like agriculture are “climate crimes” and you must all become dependent on the state handout system because when we give you everything to survive you are under out total control.
        
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        October 23, 2024 11:12am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I did, but this is 2024 where kids are lazy and the parents are lazier!.
        Back then there was no sliced bread so you buttered the loaf and cut it off how thick you wanted it and put it back in the food safe. Wack on a chunk of cheese, them marmite and it’s done. What is so hard? Are they that dam lazy? Put a tomato in your pocket to tack to school and hope there was no ply fighting!
        Then the fun bit, swap half sandwiches. Sometimes you got luncheon.
        A loaf of bread used to last over a month, not sliced bread, it is lucky to last a week.
        
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        October 23, 2024 2:15pm
    - MCōs
      
      Like Arakura School, for example
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018960962/primary-prinicpal-unhappy-with-the-changes-to-school-lunches
      
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      October 23, 2024 10:03am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Teaching the kids to cook their own lunches seems an excellent idea. Putting people on benefits doesn’t lift them out of poverty – teaching them life skills and employable skills does.
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:06am
  - Paulus
    
    But the Teachers need feeding !
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:31am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Especially the freeloading ones!
      
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      October 23, 2024 10:32am
  - andrew davies
    
    If they don’t like the food so generously provided then they should be invited to not accept it. They could also be advised that a little gratitude goes a long way and perhaps they could try it.
    Simple
    
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    October 23, 2024 10:45am
  - PurplePen
    
    Don’t they still have weekly or fortnightly cooking and woodwork?
    
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    October 23, 2024 11:16am
    - Ian
      
      I remember that six and a half decades ago at intermediate school. Boys had wood and metal work, girls had home science. Girls cooked up a lunch to serve every week and the boys were invited along to eat it. Very sexist….
      
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      October 23, 2024 1:18pm
      - Ghost
        
        When I was at intermediate the home economics was done by all the class, everyone learned to cook, sew, etc. high school, the boys outnumbered the girls in cooking and typing.
        
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        October 23, 2024 1:49pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Metalwork for me. That’s why I became a steel fabricator.
      
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      October 23, 2024 2:18pm
- Gravelroad
  
  If it had been a Labour Party menu it would have been described as wonderful.
  
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  October 23, 2024 8:15am
- AitchW
  
  What’s the bet she’s a card carrying member of the Labour party.
  Nothing that National does will be right, even when it demonstrably is.
  
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  October 23, 2024 8:22am
  - PurplePen
    
    Ginnie Andersen is like that, whiny, complaining if it’s not been thought up by Labour. In contrast McAnulty was on Hosking Wednesday Politics this morning instead, what a refreshing change by comparison.
    
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    October 23, 2024 11:25am
    - AitchW
      
      I heard McAnulty on the WCC observer this morning, he sounded very petulant!
      
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      October 23, 2024 3:48pm
- Flossie
  
  Someone was asking where the fruit and vegetables are. My experience with kids, especially the current crop i.e. my grandchildren, will not willingly eat fruit if they are given the slightest chance to avoid it. It would be interesting if there could be details of which of the meals they have at the moment go to waste. No point in paying out for stuff the kids don’t eat.
  
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  October 23, 2024 8:22am
  - artemisia
    
    Photos from the Seymour announcement showed fruit, yoghurt and brownies. Maybe kids pick if they want. Brownies would be a yes. Apples maybe less so.
    
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    October 23, 2024 8:45am
  - artemisia
    
    Think I saw somewhere that the new lunch programme includes picking up waste. Not quite sure what that means but if it usually includes leftover lunches there should be a discussion about reducing supply.
    
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    October 23, 2024 8:47am
    - pdm
      
      arty I bet it is not – `eat that now or it is what you will get tomorrow and the day after until you eat it all’.
      
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      October 23, 2024 8:52am
      - artemisia
        
        Small problem there pdm. Because tomorrow there will be a whole lot more lunches coming in the door.
        
        Was reported that teachers were scoffing or taking home lunches, one school growled at teachers who were helping themselves before the kids when (but not until) it became public. Other reports that leftover lunches were being distributed to food banks etc, or farmers.
        
        Some of that was due to the model where the supply was to the school population. That would be the official population, not necessarily how many actually turned up.
        
        ‘Rort’ come to mind?
        
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        October 23, 2024 9:13am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        I think they mean left over lunches, none of this Ardern waffle if donating. Can you remember the arrogant butch during Covid when a large butcher was unable to operate and stated he had three million dollars worth of meat that will go to waste, her arrogant reply was give it too the needy, even though they couldn’t open their shop, she thought it fine to go around and give it to the f….n needy
        
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        October 23, 2024 9:13am
    - imalwaysright
      
      I heard of one college principal who ordered lunches for everyone , 1,400/day, so that those who needed them didn’t feel stigmatised!
      
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      October 23, 2024 9:21am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Nonsense. I know plenty of kids who eat fruit.
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:08am
    - Flossie
      
      I did say my grandchildren.
      
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      October 23, 2024 10:25am
  - cmm
    
    I think that if you involve kids in the food making process then they tend to be less fussy about it.
    
    Get the kids to help set up the lunches and they are more likely to eat it.
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:10am
  - David Garrett
    
    Flossie: As an aside, when raising my children I followed the guidelines of the terrific Dr. Christopher Green, author of “Babies” and “Toddler taming”
    
    Without boring everyone with details, both of my kids raided the fruit trees at the ranch – often before the fruit was not fully ripe – and one child’s favourite vege is brussels sprouts, while the other’s is broccoli. None of our friends could believe it.
    
    So either my children are extremely unusual, or what kids’ food preferences turn out to be depends largely on how you raise them.
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:26am
    - Flossie
      
      I wholeheartedly concur David. I was raised to eat what was put in front of me and used the same philosophy when bringing up my children. However this does not seem to have continued with current crop of kids knowing their rights, being in control if their own bodies, refusing to be bullied….
      I despair.
      
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      October 23, 2024 9:36am
    - artemisia
      
      My observation is that kids can be sensitive to texture but grow out of it. ‘Slimy’ is rejected, like mushrooms. Overcooked veg also.
      
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      October 23, 2024 9:41am
      - David Garrett
        
        Art: when i were a lad if i didn’t eat hugely overlooked veges i would have starved. It wasnt until I left home that I learned that cabbage didn’t have to be boiled until it was green sludge, and carrots didnt have to also be boiled to the point you could cut them with a buttter knife
        
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        October 23, 2024 1:55pm
    - Geri Sjovik
      
      It’s all in the rasing.
      
      Oldest kids had all left home when number 3 turned up to surprise us.
      
      She was only ever given water or watered juice to drink.
      
      Now, at 22, she can’t tolerate the sugary, sweet full strength juices or soft drinks and won’t have a bar of energy drinks.
      
      As an aside, her teeth are in perfect condition.
      
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      October 23, 2024 9:55am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I was hindered for a while by Hubby who would openly express his dislike for a food item (corned beef, bacon, scotch fillet, etc!!!!) and who foolishly each morning asked the eldest what she’d like on her lunch sandwiches.
      
      As the kiddies moved into childhood and told me that they didn’t want something I’d cooked for dinner, they were told that they could cook the following night’s dinner then, and I’d get them what they needed and I’d do their dishes.
      
      Both of them are good cooks – one a professional chef. The eldest won’t eat pork, still.
      
      Neither of them will now tolerate their father saying he doesn’t like some food put on his plate.
      
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      October 23, 2024 10:43am
      - NothingLeft
        
        It’s great parenting to make kids bear a cost in inconvenience for choices that unnecessarily inconvenience others – shuts down (common) tendencies towards narcissism. Show me the (dis)incentives and I’ll tell you the outcomes.
        
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        October 23, 2024 4:56pm
  - MCōs
    
    Im not sure what to make of your comment
    I’m quite sure my grandchildren eat fruit. The parents of 2/3 are teachers and they’re fastidious about healthy eating.
    
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    October 23, 2024 10:17am
- RoboRob
  
  My parents were solidly middle class (at best). Every day for school I had sandwiches (tomato in summer, cheese and marmite in the winter), apple, banana and biscuit. All my mates had pretty much the same.
  
  My wife and I are decent earners now, not rich but definitely above average. My lunch today, ham and cheese sandwiches, apple, banana and a (home made) biscuit ! Thats what my kids eat at school too.
  
  The whole, if my free lunch isn’t hot and fancy movement are just a bunch of whining losers. The whole (stupid) bloody idea was to provide food for those whose parents could not. It had morphed, as I expected, into a ‘provide high end lunches to everyone that wants them’ plan. I am glad that Seymour is scaling it back but I am sad he hasn’t scrapped it entirely (as promised). We all know that the next left wing government will scale it right back up again.
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:00am
  - pdm
    
    Phew RR I was put off tomato sandwiches for life by having them in my school lunches every summers day as a primer.
    
    By lunch time bread and tomato were soggy and unpalatable.
    
    Happy to eat fresh raw tomatos these days but reluctant still if they are in a sandwich.
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:53am
    - RoboRob
      
      Lol, mine were soggy too. Ironically that’s how I like them now !!!!
      
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      October 23, 2024 10:15am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Why then did principals on tv say it was great?
  
  Let’s not forget some kids were being feed mung bean sandwiches, this appears to be a far better fit for growing young kids, protein and carbohydrates, and there was fruit, the three pillars of nutrition
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:08am
- Grunter
  
  Lets teach kids that it is no longer their parents responsibility to feed them. Yeah, that will work! No 2nd or 3rd level consequences to that one…..
  
  Seymour spins this as best he can, but he would be better off telling the truth and saying
  
  “Free school lunches are not free – taxpayers pay for them. The most socially responsible and cost efficient system is parents teaching their own kids how to make a healthy lunch for $3 or less. The current socialist school lunch system introduced by Labour destroys inter-generational skills by making people lazy and reliant on central government. So this is the last School Term that this will operate. Please spend the Xmas holidays teaching your kids how to make lunch”
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:15am
  - Local Miller
    
    For $3 I could make gourmet sandwiches.
    We were a family of 5 kids and always had sandwiches for lunch. When I was about 8 my Mom was in hospital for several days and under my older sister’s supervision I learned to make my own sandwiches. I’ve been doing this since then. At school my sandwiches were bargained for, often been exchanged for a sticky bun or other treat that my family couldn’t afford.
    PnB with Syrup or jam, marmite with cheese, cheese, tomato and onion, chili tuna with mayonnaise, Heinz sandwich spread, … There’s so much you can put an a sandwich, and for only $1 – $2.
    
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    October 23, 2024 11:42am
- cmm
  
  Having a feeding scheme for wee kiddies is somewhat understandable.
  
  But highschool? Nonsense! Highschool kids can make their own sandwiches etc at home.
  
  At age 12, my kids could make a pizza from scratch. ie. make the dough from flour, salt, sugar and yeast – all the way through baking it, slicing it and serving it with zero parental input.
  
  I am not expecting that level of competence, but being 15 and unable to make your own sandwiches is supremely pathetic.
  
  Passive feeding programmes are part of building of making the next batch of highschool kids welfare dependents.
  
  According to the Greens, they are old enough to vote and determine their gender, but can’t make a sandwich!
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:24am
  - David Garrett
    
    According to the Greens, they are old enough to vote and determine their gender, but can’t make a sandwich!
    
    Brilliant. Also according to the Greens, 16 year old’s are mature enough to play a part in how the country is run – by way of the vote – but they are not fully criminally responsible for their actions until age 21 – or even 25 according to the loonier ones.
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:31am
    - pdm
      
      Hastings District Council has given Volunteer Student Councillors, a couple aged 15 the right to vote and pays them as well.
      
      All done on the Mayors casting vote showing contempt for ratepayers.
      
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      October 23, 2024 9:56am
      - Paulus
        
        Hope they have IRD numbers and taxes deducted as per regulations plus ACC and other employment costs etc
        
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        October 23, 2024 4:05pm
  - MCōs
    
    Interestingly enough I always made sandwiches for myself when I worked in NZ, but a lot of people didn’t so what’s the difference?
    How do you get your kids to eat a proper breakfast and prepare their lunch when you won’t?
    
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    October 23, 2024 10:30am
    - Local Miller
      
      How do you get your kids to eat a proper breakfast and prepare their lunch when you won’t?
      
      Show them once, do it with them the next time, after that they go hungry or do it themselves. Weekends make good teaching aids, there’s no lunch Saturday except what you can make for yourself!
      
      And NO, Mommy’s not giving you pocket money to buy lunch!
      
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      October 23, 2024 1:20pm
- Swifty
  
  This school lunch ‘solution’ is not a real solution, it’s just papering over the cracks.
  
  It’s like Ardern attempting to ‘solve’ child poverty by raising benefit levels. I argue in doing so she ‘solved’ nothing, she just obscured the symptoms of a greater problem.
  
  By raising benefit levels she did nothing to actually solve the root causes of that greater problem – a moribund economy with internationally weak growth, parents or caregivers stuck in the benefit trap and often intergenerationally etc
  
  This school lunch business is also just papering over the cracks. Kids going to school without a lunch is a symptom of a greater problem – either parents without the funds to buy lunch supplies or parents unwilling or unable to fulfill the parental responsibilities of preparing a lunch.
  
  I’m against this school lunch programme for one fundamental reason. That we should wherever possible resist the temptation to allow the state to take over the responsibilities of parents. If anything, the state should restrict itself to only helping parents accept and discharge their responsibilities but, again, not take those responsibilities on.
  
  What sort of parents are we going to have in New Zealand in 50-100 years time if we allow the state to slowly chip away at parental responsibilities and take on more and more of a parental function?
  
  Why stop at school lunches? Why not breakfasts and dinners? What about clothing? What about sports and holidays? Will the state take over reading to our kids etc etc etc.
  
  No, if we have kids going to school without lunches because their parents or caregivers can’t afford lunch supplies I would prefer my tax money to going towards a box of lunch supplies being sent to them weekly (ex My Food Bag or similar) with instructions and recipe ideas but reinforcing that it is the parent’s responsibility to prepare the lunch and make sure the children take it to school.
  
  This is a great learning opportunity for some parents, makes a closer bond between them and their kids and reinforces responsibilities in the rights places. It also limits the state’s inexorable slide into becoming de-facto parents.
  
  The state should be helping families to become more independent, resilient and resourceful – not taking over their role.
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:43am
  - Geri Sjovik
    
    Poverty is measured as having an income a certain percentage below the median.
    
    Using that as the measurement there will always be poverty.
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:57am
    - PurplePen
      
      Didn’t Jesus say the poor will always be with you.
      
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      October 23, 2024 11:32am
  - Burtland
    
    food bags …
    they did that during the quakes in christchurch – food cards at P&S
    they sold them off for drugs
    
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    October 23, 2024 11:25am
    - Swifty
      
      Understood, but still….
      
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      October 23, 2024 12:07pm
- Burtland
  
  did Samantha Morton have shares in the local supplier?
  
  was there a maori business quota on these suppliers?
  
  they did have to pay the living wage ….
  
  – brought to you by the smiley face of neo marxism
  
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  October 23, 2024 10:45am
- PurplePen
  
  I heard her mention the nutritional value was questionable. What parenting planet are these people on. Mum made us lettuce and vegemite sandwich on white bread, the fillings might have varied. And when we were about 12 we had to make our own .. lots of butter and peanut butter then. Still alive today, overweight in fact from lack of excercise, managed to get through life ok.
  
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  October 23, 2024 11:20am
Simon

Andrew Bayly questions for National types

Isn’t Bayly wasted as minister for small business. Shouldn’t he be welfare minister going around telling beneficiaries they are losers instead?

Luxon claims he wants NZ to become an economic powerhouse. Why then is deadwood like Bayly minister for small business and manufacturing?
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October 23, 2024 8:05am
- hmmokrightitis
  
  Before a response, maybe you can tell us your response when your beloved chippy berated and denigrated a pregnant woman?
  
  I’ll wait…
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:31am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  This has to been seen for what it was, he was joking, and the L on his head suggest he was joking, telling the work to go get wine and knock off work ffs, if that is a crime now, god knows a certain ex minister drunk and crashed and then threatened the police is a strike offence, the hypocrisy of Hipkins in the house after some of the law breaking by his ministers suggests he has learned nothing
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:39am
  - Burtland
    
    did woods apologize for “rivers of filth” ?
    
    14 1
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    October 23, 2024 11:29am
    - 3-coil
      
      No, Woods did not apologise….but like Hillary’s “deplorables” wisecrack, it cost them the election!
      
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      October 23, 2024 2:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Dominion Machines Refusing To Vote For Kamala.
Republicans cheating?

https://babylonbee.com/news/report-even-dominion-machines-refusing-to-vote-for-kamala?
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October 23, 2024 8:05am
- peterwn
  
  Presumably software upgrades for the machines since the last Presidental election now incorporate AI.
  
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  October 23, 2024 8:11am
- RoboRob
  
  The Dems will be more worried when the dead stop voting for Harris, until then they are fine 🙂
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:03am
  - I remember when
    
    RoboRob:
    The dead and the ‘never really were.’
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:51am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump to host “Dirty Jobs.”
He is going to do the dirtiest job ever – 47th POTUS.

https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-to-host-new-season-of-dirty-jobs?
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October 23, 2024 8:08am
Maggy Wassilieff

Is Te Pati Maori an enabler of Mongrel Mob activities?

Te Pāti Māori MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi, says today’s police-sponsored terrorism in Ōpōtiki is a continuation of the State’s predatory behaviour towards the iwi of Te Whakatōhea.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2410/S00179/police-perpetuate-siege-on-opotiki.htm

How does Rawiri Waititi justify the killings, assaults and drug-peddling carried out by Mongrel Mobsters?
https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2024/10/22/police-prevent-drive-by-shooting-at-opotiki-marae-as-part-of-targeted-mongrel-mob-inquiry/
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October 23, 2024 8:11am
- Rodney Hide
  
  Maggy
  
  I can’t resist finally offering you a nugget as poor recompense for all the nuggets you provide. It’s especially delicious as it is tikanga — not my specialist field.
  
  I read in Stuff that she is not to speak publicly for 12 months after her Dad’s death. Māori tradition.
  
  The Dems are wishing they could have used that for Kamala but too late — she has spoken.
  
  Rodney Hide
  
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  October 23, 2024 8:25am
  - graham
    
    Think this is meant to be in response to Maggy’s comment below:
    
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/10/general_debate_23_october_2024.html#comment-3633969
    
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    October 23, 2024 8:28am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    cheers
    
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    October 23, 2024 12:39pm
- Clyde
  
  [Mod – use correct names] is a fool, but he is perfectly qualified to be the leader of this party. As an aside, I noted that in the passage of the bill through the house regarding fresh water management etc, that the Racist Party weren’t even in attendance. NZ is screwed or in the position that it is being screwed.
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:26am
- JimBobJoe
  
  The short answer to your question about Rawiri is: Cuzzies.
  
  Longer answer: Cant criticise the family and clan
  
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  October 23, 2024 11:00am
- AitchW
  
  MW the rhetoric these apologists spout is sickening.
  I wonder if he could explain, without resorting to the tired old cliches about colonisers, how arresting suspected violent criminals is terrorism.
  If challenged he’ll resort to the usual bluff and bluster and meaningless slogans.
  We really do deserve better from our politicians.
  
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  October 23, 2024 3:54pm
Ra Henare

It has always intrigued me how the truth keeps changing.

At one time, eating eggs was castigated as causing cholesterol increases in the blood, leading to heart attacks. Now eggs are revered with recommendations to eat 3 or more eggs a day.

The same goes for history.

In the case of Israel, they teach Israeli students that the bible is the source of truth, especially the Old Testament. Especially the book of Joshua which studies are compulsory.

I am forever looking for more knowledge and stumbled across the case where beliefs and facts clash.

It seems that many items referenced in the Old Testament didn’t actually occur according to a number of Archaeologists and Historians (Many Jewish actually)

This 30 minute clip summarises the situation.

Draw your own conclusions re Netanyahu’s claimed history of Israel against this information.

https://youtu.be/sQk41nLuhGA

In my view the clip is neither Pro Palestinian or anti-Zionist,
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October 23, 2024 8:14am
- Grunter
  
  Thx for the link Ra
  
  The more I read up on Netanyahu the more convinced I am that he’s a major part of the problem over there. There is no evidence that I can find that shows him up as part of a realistic solution. And now there is no solution. All out war is the outcome. Netanyahu knows that of course.
  
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  October 23, 2024 10:48am
- JimBobJoe
  
  Archeology supports theories of how, who and what.
  Those theories constantly change
  
  Don’t believe me – go and look at the evolution of theories around the Bronze Age Collapse as an example…. Sea Peoples. No not the Sea Peoples, Climate Change, No Volcanoes, No Sea Peoples…. no all the above…..
  
  The Archeology not proving the Bible/OT currently doesn’t mean a hell of a lot in reality as after another ten years and more discovers the evidence is likely to point in another direction again.
  
  The Jews have been in Israel for Millenia. The Temple Wall proves that….
  
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  October 23, 2024 11:04am
  - Ra Henare
    
    So you are attempting to debunk these archaeologists FINDINGS?
    
    Not theories about why some Bronze Age finished.
    
    PS. The Temple wall was created in 19BCE.
    Yes Millenia in that it is over 2,000 years old.
    But not significant when looking at the big picture. ie Jerusalem was created some 4,000 years ago before Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
    
    I suspect that like the majority of KB readers, you have not looked at the clip.
    
    Even just the first 10 minutes is educational, let alone the whole 30 minutes.
    
    Finally, an eye-opener to me is what Historical Israel included(or excluded) Check the Clip at 11:28
    
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    October 23, 2024 5:49pm
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Ra….. I have seen multi hours of archeology from Israel. Some is supportive and some not.
      
      It is generally accepted that the Hebrew people have been in Israel sometime around 1300 BC (range of 1400-1200 bc) and the first Temple (Solomons Temple) was in existence between 1000 and 600 BC
      
      Yes Jerusalem was an occupied site before the Hebrews entered the land known as Canaan… That is not surprising giving its a hill top and hill tops have been occupied by Humans from the time they could build fortifications…
      
      You post and a few previously are, maybe not your intent but the way I read them, seem to want to under mine the Jewish peoples claim to Israel as their ancient homeland.
      
      Proving 100% the biblical history via archeology is frankly not possible. Why? Because Archeologists and Historians working off archeology and ancient written sources will also be engaging in interpretive analysis of what they have to hand.
      
      That interpretation is simply always going to be coloured by peoples politics, their theories (fitting evidence to their pet theory) and also the interpretation is only ever partial as more archeological digs will reveal new inputs that will unsettle existing interpretation…
      
      And yes the Wailing Wall is from the Second Temple when the Jewish faith was mostly established but of course (before someone starts on the ‘but its not the same faith because xyz’) all faiths evolve over tiem – because humans constantly re-examine, re-imagine and re-interpret.
      
      But frankly Islam and Christianity are religions that have sprung from ancient Jewish faith practices. Christianity very directly and Islam less so, though Mohammed wanted to be accepted as a prophet by Jewish tribes in Arabia but they rejected his claim (and therein is a root of some of the virulent antisemitism embedded in Islam)
      
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      October 23, 2024 8:08pm
Maggy Wassilieff

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/531592/new-maori-monarch-steps-onto-the-national-stage

But was she allowed to say anything?

I only see what the Men were saying about her.
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October 23, 2024 8:15am
- Flossie
  
  She will not speak publicly for a year to “give her the opportunity to mourn her father” so I believe.
  
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  October 23, 2024 8:24am
  - sherp
    
    Strange how traditional maori beliefs incorporate the gregorian calendar….
    
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    October 23, 2024 8:41am
    - Mike
      
      It might surprise you to know that pope did not invent the number of times the earth rotates during a single orbit of the sun.
      
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      October 23, 2024 2:18pm
  - Blog-aholic
    
    Will she speak on a marae??
    
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    October 23, 2024 8:45am
- pdm
  
  TVNZ news last night said she has a years mourning before speaking publicly on any issues.
  
  TVNZ and that Ani bird know these things.
  
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  October 23, 2024 8:25am
- Burtland
  
  Tuku’s got her muzzled – he mumbled some Biden like comment.
  
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  October 23, 2024 11:39am
- NothingLeft
  
  How’d she get that job then?
  
  “The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. That is why I am your king.”
  
  “Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony…”
  
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  October 23, 2024 5:00pm
Benedict Yu

““Just because you’re poor doesn’t mean you should be given whatever.”

What are they being fed? Dead rats?

The teachers and the parents should be instilling some gratitude into the children. Perhaps it a cultural thing about New Zealand I don’t understand. If I am given a meal by anyone, I am always thankful and I say so.
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October 23, 2024 8:18am
- AitchW
  
  BY the response from Ms Morton is purely political.
  The left HATE that the government can provide better food than Labour did at lesas than half the cost and to more schools.
  Make no mistake, once this programme starts the media will leave no stone unturned to find a report of one lunch somewhere that wasn’t up to scratch.
  
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  October 23, 2024 8:51am
  - RoboRob
    
    True. But also rest assured that when Labour next come to power the first thing they will do is double the budget per meal and provide it to even more kids (who wouldn’t need it if it wasn’t there and free).
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:10am
  - Paulus
    
    That comment will probably come from a Teacher !
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:36am
  - Gravelroad
    
    If the students at the Greymouth College take the lead from their head teacher, who is clearly biased against this school lunch scheme, they will start saying from the get go that the food is yuck and they are not going to eat it.
    Eventually the powers-that-be will say that not enough lunches being eaten so numbers cut.
    Followed by no meals at all supplied as too much resistance and waste.
    This is what happens when people in authority , such as school principals who have influence over students, nail their colours to a wall in the interests of their preferred politicians or employment unions.
    The only ones who will be disadvantaged will be the school kids – if they take notice of their principal.
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:57am
    - Countrygirl
      
      Sorry, fat fingers again
      
      3 0
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      October 23, 2024 1:09pm
- RoboRob
  
  Hipkins on TV this morning complaining that funding was no longer being provided so that schools could employ people to hand out the lunches. Schools will have to meet that cost themselves.
  
  WTF. Has this loser ever been to a school. let me give you a hint how it works Chrissy. The school sets up a roster and assigns x kids a day to the task of opening the boxes and handing the meals out as other kids queue to receive them. No wonder every project Labour touched went over budget, paying people to hand out school lunches indeed.
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:09am
  - Gravelroad
    
    When I was at College, years ago, there was a tuck shop which was run by volunteer senior students.
    There was huge competition to get on that roster @ how to run a small business.
    
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    October 23, 2024 10:01am
    - Local Miller
      
      At collage level we had an excellent tuck shop run by parents on a volunteer basis. Hot dogs, sausage rolls, pies, a variety of sticky buns. Soft drinks, both fizzy and fruit, and a sweets section. Everything was cheaper than if we went to the local dairy, but funds raised went to the PTA for use in special funding for extra school kit. One of the woman running it was my best friend’s mum, and she had more volunteers than she could use.
      
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      October 23, 2024 2:25pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    And who is going to put their bibs on, spoon feed them and wipe their chins???
    
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    October 23, 2024 10:28am
    - artemisia
      
      And that’s just bibs etc for the teachers.
      
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      October 23, 2024 12:46pm
  - Ghost
    
    Yes he was at a school a few months ago eating a school lunch.
    
    I remember primary school. You’d place your order for lunch at the start of class. It came from the dairy across thr road. It was either pies or filled rolls, once a month you could order fish n chips for lunch. Would be delivered to each class in a box. Then that days lunch monitor would hand them out at lunchtime
    
    Two sort after jobs. Lunch monitor and newsletter printer. Oh how everyone loved to smell the newsletters.
    
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    October 23, 2024 10:36am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Yes, the gestettener printer.
      Just about every kid was a Meths addict.
      
      The good old days.
      
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      October 23, 2024 10:54am
      - Ghost
        
        Yeah. When teachers didn’t mind that the kids were meth heads. Hmmm, not much has changed I guess. Then onto intermediate where we all become twink sniffers. Which means something completely different today…..
        
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        October 23, 2024 12:01pm
  - PurplePen
    
    I was at a boarding school at age 7 for a term. A large tray of sliced buttered and jam cover bread was put out on a table at morning break for students to help themselves. Worked fine for us.
    
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    October 23, 2024 11:41am
    - AitchW
      
      Luxury….
      
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      October 23, 2024 8:02pm
- I remember when
  
  BY:
  No, when making purchases the poor shouldn’t be restricted to the cheapest options, it’s unfair.
  It follows that line of reasoning.
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:45am
- Countrygirl
  
  BY, Rats were a main food source for early inhabitants of this country.
  
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  October 23, 2024 1:03pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Kiori. Yum yum. 🙂
    
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    October 23, 2024 3:42pm
imalwaysright

Just wondering what it takes for a public servant to be sacked and face trial?

This is what Jagose was up to regards the Abuse in care investigation:

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/10/23/survivors-call-for-removal-of-solicitor-general/

From article

“The Crown held overwhelming documentary evidence these allegations of torture were true but withheld this evidence on numerous occasions.”

“…in internal emails in 2006 and again in 2009, Jagose suggested putting psychological stress on survivor claimants as a strategy to help the Crown win its legal battle.”

Unbelievable
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October 23, 2024 8:22am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I can’t comment on the case you cite, but it does seem quite weird based on the extract.
  
  The Solicitor General is a unique position. She is not a public servant. AFAIK there are no legislated provisions for her removal. She is appointed by the Governor General for an open ended term.
  
  I assume that the PM could advise the Governor General to dismiss her.
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:38am
  - imalwaysright
    
    The article is worth reading, much more detail and other allegations.
    
    Its hard to understand what would motivate a public servant to , allegedly , use such underhand, vicious and possibly illegal methods to achieve her ends.
    
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    October 23, 2024 9:55am
    - Burtland
      
      the same way ministers viewed demonstrators as “rivers of filth”
      
      11 3
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      October 23, 2024 11:47am
      - Mike
        
        Those rabble rousers were not, themselves, ‘rivers of filth’. They were simply generating filth by claiming they were entitled to camp on public property and then shitting all over the place.
        
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        October 23, 2024 2:30pm
    - Fender
      
      Don’t watch the post office UK doco then,spoiler alert! it makes this seem like small potatoes
      
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      October 23, 2024 3:41pm
  - pdm
    
    BY – she is responsible to the Attorney General, Judith Collins who apparently is able to sack her.
    
    Time she did I think.
    
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    October 23, 2024 10:01am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Can you provide a source for your statement that Judith Collins can sack her? How is that possible if the SG is appointed by the Governor General?
      
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      October 23, 2024 11:13am
      - Ghost
        
        Only the governor general can remove the solicitor general
        
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        October 23, 2024 11:18am
      - RoboRob
        
        I am no expert but I assume the Attorney General (or PM and maybe others) could go to the Governor General and request they remove her. Obviously the GG could refuse but it is unlikely.
        
        9 1
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        October 23, 2024 11:22am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Robo,
        
        “Obviously the GG could refuse but it is unlikely”
        
        She’s got nothing else to do since her mate got the opporchewnity to get her gong from the hairless heir.
        
        5 1
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        October 23, 2024 11:44am
  - Burtland
    
    they should do a Costa switcharoo – Wellington Council are looking for people
    
    3 1
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    October 23, 2024 11:53am
- peterwn
  
  Typical lawyer behaviour.
  
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  October 23, 2024 11:28am
  - Mike
    
    Lawyers, among their many other deficiencies, are locked into an adversarial mindset. So the crown lawyers pretend that the public interest is always best served by them ‘winning’ their case.
    
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    October 23, 2024 2:32pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Hmm. In voting for the most expensive option, it looks like the Deep South has not learned from Wellington.

On the other hand, $87m, even allowing for the inevitable cost overruns, seems like an absolute bargain, compared with the cost of the dross Wellington ratepayers are stumping up for.

http://www.1news.co.nz/2024/10/22/council-opts-for-most-expensive-option-for-southland-museum/
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October 23, 2024 8:25am
3-coil

Hilarious listening to Greenie co-leader Chlōe Swarbrick being interviewed on national radio this morning. She prevaricated and choked while unable to bat off the accusation of hypocrisy re the greens’ “waka-jumping” expulsion of Darlene Tana.
Swarbrick just couldn’t admit that Winston and the other “grown-ups” (her favourite phrase) who created the waka-jumping legislation were right, and that she and her rabid ideologue party were evidently totally wrong.
[Mod deleted]
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October 23, 2024 8:27am
- Ghost
  
  Seymour doesn’t agree with waka jumping
  
  “On the other hand, I’m also a very strong believer that the only people who should be able to drive an elected Member of Parliament out of Parliament is the voters at an election. As soon as you go down the track of allowing Members of Parliament to push other Members of Parliament out of Parliament, you can get to some very dark places.
  
  Article
  
  Also a sad day for democracy. Article
  
  So the leader of the other party who has waka jumped someone doesn’t agree with it
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:16am
  - I remember when
    
    Ghost:
    One of the unintended consequences of MMP, members who don’t represent a specific electorate.
    
    9 1
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    October 23, 2024 9:39am
  - David Garrett
    
    Ghost: Let’s just say that the ACT party under Mr Seymour is a very different animal from the party under Richard Prebble – who led ACT at the time Donna Awatere was waka jumped.
    
    Also under Prebble, ACT’s law and order policies – including three strikes – were very much part of the policy mix. Mr Seymour doesn’t have much interest in that side of ACT’s support
    
    12 1
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    October 23, 2024 9:39am
    - Ghost
      
      I actually think he is the wrong leader for act.
      
      1 14
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      October 23, 2024 10:01am
      - David Garrett
        
        ⁷Ghost: When i was in the homeland recently i had lunch with a very senior ACT figure from the past. He observed- with a wry grin “David always thinks he is the smartest person in the room. That is sometimes not the case “
        
        11 4
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        October 23, 2024 11:18am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        I’m interested to know who you would suggest instead.
        
        1 0
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        October 23, 2024 4:23pm
      - Ghost
        
        Someone who can return the act party to one that is strong on crime. Seymour is weak. He’s not clicking with the public, acts polling is terrible when it should be much higher. I think next election act will go in with either Brooke or Nicole as their leader
        
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        October 23, 2024 5:52pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “So the leader of the other party who has waka jumped someone doesn’t agree with it.”
    
    The provision has had never been used until yesterday.
    
    8 4
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    October 23, 2024 9:41am
    - Ghost
      
      The waka-jumping law has not been used since 2003, when the ACT Party expelled Donna Awatere Huata over allegations of fraud
      
      6 2
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      October 23, 2024 9:46am
      - Notsofast
        
        As an aside, the enduring legacy of evicting Donna Awatere is another generation of illiteracy. After the committee world tour in about 2002 she came back a vociferous proponent of structured phonetic reading methods. Trevor Mallard as education minister scorned all advice and kept the prisons full as a result.
        
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        October 23, 2024 10:34am
      - Colville
        
        The law was chucked out then brought back in wasnt it?
        So effectively different law with same intent?
        
        1 2
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        October 23, 2024 11:09am
      - Ghost
        
        Yeah, I think Clark chucked it out. I also think, not sure, David Garrett would know, that Donna dragged act through the courts as well
        
        4 1
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        October 23, 2024 11:23am
- 3-coil
  
  Thanks Mod (8:27am), sorry I didn’t realise *****s was a banned word – I’ll try again:
  
  Boomers 1 – Chlōe 0
  
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  October 23, 2024 10:52am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Shell Lane (The Terrace) bike rack report:

At 8.25am, null bikes once more

A light breeze, coolish, morning in the Capital, well within the margin for cycling.
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October 23, 2024 8:29am
- MCōs
  
  There’s vast amounts of land given over to motorized vehicles in my neighbourhood that are similarly hardly used, but nobody objects so why should you?
  
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  October 23, 2024 10:55am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Because roads are generally thorough fares Cossie. Bike Racks on the Terrace are there for the great cycle commuting class that the WCC is convinced exists.
    
    500K on a rack barely used is a metaphor for the current Labour/Green councilors brainpower at WCC: expensive and not used often
    
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    October 23, 2024 11:08am
  - PurplePen
    
    What wgtn neighbourhood do you live in. All I’ve ever known in wgtn is streets lined both sides, end-to- end with parked cars. In any case, the roads are already there. The bike rack was a half million dollar addition to a site that already had space enough for bikes to park up.
    
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    October 23, 2024 11:48am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Motorists pay for roads and parking through fuel taxes and permits. Roads are for use by both cars and bikes.
    
    Cyclists pay nothing specifically for infrastructure (cycleways and racks) that only cyclists can use.
    
    See the difference?
    
    16 1
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    October 23, 2024 11:56am
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      I don’t have a problem with cyclists getting to use the roads for free. They cause virtually no damage and the roads are already there anyway.
      
      It would be nice if the taxpayer/ ratepayers didn’t have to subsidize bicycle only lanes however.
      
      Maybe a one-time surcharge on the sale of a bicycle.
      
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      October 23, 2024 12:55pm
    - MCōs
      
      In Auckland, for example, urban roads are the responsibility of Auckland Transport, which is funded 38% by NZTA
      
      4 4
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      October 23, 2024 1:09pm
      - alloytoo
        
        And Auckland transport seems incapable of building a non-bumpy road.
        
        8 0
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        October 23, 2024 1:39pm
    - Taieri
      
      Cyclists pay nothing specifically for infrastructure (cycleways and racks) that only cyclists can use.
      ———-
      
      Just as pedestrians specifically (don’t) pay for footpaths…
      
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      October 23, 2024 4:41pm
  - MCōs
    
    Nothing like poking at a sacred cow to rile up the masses.
    Roads may generally be thoroughfares, but there are six culs-de-sac within 400m of my house (in Auckland)
    
    3 14
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    October 23, 2024 12:30pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Many Cul de sacs are Privately owned roads called JOALs (Joint Owned Access Lot)
      All the Residents own the road, not the Council.
      
      5 0
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      October 23, 2024 3:08pm
      - MCōs
        
        In these cases the culs-de-sac are public streets all. (note correct spelling. At least I’ve got that correct)
        
        3 6
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        October 23, 2024 3:20pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        How would you know?
        Did you search the Title or look at the District Scheme Plan?
        And I said ‘many’.
        The Council doesn’t like owning them much cause of the maintenance.
        But hey, you carry on with all your pointless comments
        And you can spell it both ways
        cul-de-sac
        in British English
        (ˈkʌldəˌsæk IPA Pronunciation Guide, ˈkʊl- IPA Pronunciation Guide )
        noun
        Word forms: plural culs-de-sac or cul-de-sacs
        https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/culs-de-sac
        W.A.F.M
        
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        October 23, 2024 4:12pm
bythesea

Apparently, the taxpayer is going to be no longer funding white supremacy studies
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/531584/it-s-a-broken-promise-research-centre-on-white-supremacy-loses-funding.

Not sure if there is a research center about Australian loners who have been to multiple “notable” countries studies or terrible police oversight of gun licenses to non-citizens. There must be those right.

It was a special Ardern treat to take a devastating tragedy from an Australian and use it to paint white NZers as turds. And to use the name of Christchurch (where i live) for the dystopian censorship complex she wants to build with Trudeau.

How come the police were not run over the coals for this tragedy. There should have been mass sackings
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October 23, 2024 8:37am
- sherp
  
  Come on now cindy clearly said no information of the intended targets were given, and then made it illegal to talk about if such information was in the manifesto sent to her office…. nothing fishy there
  
  11 1
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  October 23, 2024 9:11am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The issue of the manifesto being sent to her office is covered in full in the Royal Commission Report.
    
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    October 23, 2024 11:16am
- I remember when
  
  Is every time an Asian becomes dux of a New Zealand secondary school a sign that white supremacy has failed to live up to its hype?
  
  21 1
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  October 23, 2024 9:33am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Well, Chinese, more than “Asian”. 😃
    
    17 1
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    October 23, 2024 9:52am
    - Swifty
      
      We should never have got rid of the poll tax – all those bloody Chinese coming over here and winning all our school prizes!
      
      🤣
      
      //
      
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      October 23, 2024 10:09am
- Flossie
  
  Why mass sackings? How many eyes go on a gun licence application?
  
  8 1
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  October 23, 2024 9:46am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    In this case, two officers. There identities are protected by order of the Commission.
    
    11 2
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    October 23, 2024 9:51am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The centre might have done OK but the Ardern government put this lunatic in charge of it.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/professor-joanna-kidman-says-coalition-government-might-be-a-death-cult-david-seymour-calls-for-resignation-of-anti-extremism-centre-director/G4D4O5EJPNCKJDMDGOCHHSHU6M/
  
  She called the current government a “death cult”.🙄
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:54am
  - Swifty
    
    She’s a complete fanatic and extremist – just the type that do well in our Universities these days.
    
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    October 23, 2024 10:12am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    Kidman is in the same class as Kate Hannah.
    
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    October 23, 2024 11:11am
- Keith White
  
  My view is there was an overlapping bunch of self-protecting and credential-burnishing agendas from the Unholy Trinity of Ardern, Coster, Cahill after the Christchurch atrocity.
  
  Ardern needed to distance herself from vetting failures after her Cabinet committee changed the vetting process the previous year; she needed to appear a giantess upon the international stage for future UN etc ambitions; and she needed one hundred percent support from the police to enact her communist gun-grabbing agenda.
  
  Coster needed to not have to publicly acknowledge or investigate vetting failures to appear supportive to the rank-and-file as well as to retain Cahill’s support; he needed to not have to acknowledge that the police armed Tarrant legally; and he wanted a big win of wokeness for his future career.
  
  Cahill needed to have no public investigation into vetting failures to appear supportive to the rank-and-file union members; along with Coster also needed to not have to acknowledge that this union members armed Tarrant legally; and he also wanted to ingratiate himself with TPTB, which a few years ago were solid wall-to-wall Ardernites.
  
  Q.E.D.
  
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  October 23, 2024 11:59am
  - bythesea
    
    “never let a crisis go to waste”
    “the cover up is worse than the crime” (vetting failures)
    
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    October 23, 2024 2:56pm
- NothingLeft
  
  The left is suffering from a severe shortage of white supremacists to feed their supporters, it’s seriously damaging their ability to cook up moral panics, and as such there are now moves to give them endangered species status and restrict hunting of them with the hope of building up stocks so that they can again become an occasional treat for far left demagogues in future generations.
  
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  October 23, 2024 5:09pm
O C Smith

I note that in Darleen Tana’s exit interview reverted to her use of normal pronouns. “They” “We” “Us” have gone!
20 1
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October 23, 2024 9:11am
- imalwaysright
  
  “Bye, y’all !”
  
  19 0
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  October 23, 2024 10:36am
- Gravelroad
  
  But what about never walking alone?
  She said she/they would never walk alone.
  Does that still apply?
  
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  October 23, 2024 12:26pm
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Was/Were doesn’t have the same appeal.
    
    9 0
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    October 23, 2024 2:30pm
mandk

More moronic lefty whinging:
https://news.fuseworksmedia.com/df4e1f14-28b6-49d4-a454-a6e4b7bbd519

The NZEI are like all the other useless socialist organisations. They are all from the Andrew Little school of public service delivery.

They assess the value of everything according to what is spent, not according to what is achieved.
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October 23, 2024 9:22am
I remember when

Sometimes you have to think, No, you definitely shouldn’t have done that!
However, at the same time you acknowledge there is a certain rationale to the action.

“UK woman jailed for posting nude photos of father’s mistress on line: Stuff NZ”
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October 23, 2024 9:29am
- mandk
  
  What was the rationale that you see?
  
  What the young woman did was extremely vindictive. She deserved the sentence she got.
  
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  October 23, 2024 10:06am
I remember when

“How Climate disasters are making Mobile Homes a Huge Risk: NY Times.

Or, they could be handy if you suddenly had to move quickly for safety.
12 1
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October 23, 2024 9:57am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Most of those so-called mobile homes are in fact relatively immobile.
  
  11 0
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  October 23, 2024 12:00pm
  - cmm
    
    Yup, they are designed to be moved very occasionally (eg. after construction). They typically end up with decks etc.
    These are not caravans or such.
    YOu really wouldn’t want a bunch of these on the road when a hurricane is approaching.
    
    https://factoryselecthomecenter.com/mobile-home-photo-video-gallery/
    
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    October 23, 2024 3:25pm
Yvette

The U.S. and Europe are close to finalizing a plan to provide Ukraine with a $50 billion loan backed by Russia’s frozen central bank assets, the U.S. Treasury secretary said yesterday.

Good
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October 23, 2024 11:10am
- Keith White
  
  So as Russia sees it, Ukraine will buy weapons to kill Russians in Russia with money confiscated by NATO countries from Russia. That’s unlikely to end well for anyone.
  
  Regardless of how this all started*, the Law of Unintended Consequences is about to get more active.
  
  *26 Jan 2022 — Russia, Biden said, would face but minor consequences if it restrained itself to but a “minor incursion” into Ukraine.
  
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  October 23, 2024 12:03pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Just another step along the long and winding road that is there to make the Yuan the world’s currency.
  But the American regime cannot see that. There are none so blind as those who cannot see.
  
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  October 23, 2024 12:27pm
  - MCōs
    
    It’s your solemn duty to let the White House know
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/
    
    3 4
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    October 23, 2024 1:19pm
  - NoFax
    
    Not even the Chinese want the Yuan!
    
    There are a lot of requirements for the world to accept a currency as the “world’s currency”. Chief among them is a fully convertible currency i.e. no capital controls. If the CCP lifted the capital controls in China watch the capital fly out.
    
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    October 23, 2024 1:39pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      China has a bigger debt problem than the US too.
      They are a key part of the global supply chain but they look pretty stuffed to me.
      
      9 0
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      October 23, 2024 3:12pm
  - cmm
    
    That’s a very USA-ish way of thinking.
    The Americans take any attempt to cause them to fall from the “world leader” status is considered aggression.
    
    Of course the fact that the US $ is used for many transactions gives the $ an extra level of stability and value that helps to bolster their debt-fuelled artificially high living standards.
    
    If US $ loses that status then immediately their debt becomes far more real than it is now and US households really would feel the pinch. Therefore they see it as a threat.
    
    That is why they see BRICS as such a threat. BRICS trading without using the USD takes away a lot of US dominance.
    
    6 1
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    October 23, 2024 3:20pm
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Cross currency trading has always been a thing. It always will be.
      
      What is of more importance is not settling sales in USD its about international lending not in the USD or another strong currency.
      
      Would you be happy to lend/borrow in Brazilian Real? Or Russian Roubles? Those currencies change their values massively in very short times and also don’t have particularly deep hedging markets, so are just a tad risky ….
      
      And as for the PRC’s currency and FX controls – pull the other leg, as whether you can get that pile of rubbish converted to a real currency and get value out of China holdings is a case of how XI feels on any given day
      
      The USD as the reserve currency of the world is not going anywhere …..
      
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      October 23, 2024 5:34pm
- Grunter
  
  This is a very dumb thing to do for a few reasons:
  
  #1 Trust in the EU and the USA is now zero as they are showing that they can and will weaponise the financial system. This is why most of the global south want to become members of BRICS .
  
  #2 Another $50 billion of weapons changes nothing in this war. Russia can not be defeated by Ukraine. It does however mean a longer war, and many more humans die.
  
  #3 Russia will now go tit-for-tat and steal western assets they are holding. A much lower amount of course, but this is individual and company assets, not US Govt assets. So the big losers are innocent Western investors.
  
  #4 Russian oligarch funds will now be channeled into Russian banks and assets. All investors outside of the EU & USA (except Japan, Aust, Canada, NZ maybe) are doing the same. So, for example, the Saudis no longer trust the USA (why would they?) – their oil money will now go elsewhere.
  
  The world now has 2-systems that are now clashing. The US-led western empire (which NZ is part of), and the global majority that is forming BRICS. The BRICS structure is multi-polar, there won’t be a single currency for example (doesn’t need to be). The Western empire is gradually being sucked up by the US. Watch as Europe crumbles over the next decade and the US soaks up a sihtload of capital as it takes flight.
  
  There is no “Good” in any of this.
  
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  October 23, 2024 4:24pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Indicted For Stolen Valor Of A McDonald’s Employee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPfvaJ-fsSI
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October 23, 2024 11:39am
Ghost

Hmmm, a story change

So interviews with the media you’d had nothing to drink. In the house, you’d had nothing to drink. Now….

Andrew Bayly has corrected an answer he gave in Parliament yesterday about whether he drank alcohol on the day he called a worker a “loser”, now saying “after the incident and at the end of the day, I had a small wine tasting”.

Article
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October 23, 2024 12:06pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I think you’re missing the point here…
  
  The worker stated that Andrew Bayly appeared to be drunk when they interacted.
  
  Bayly said he hadn’t been drinking prior to the exchange..
  
  All the publicity and questioning has been around has been about what happened at or prior to the verbal exchange.
  
  Bayly states clearly he hadn’t had any alcohol at that time.
  
  The fact that he had a small glass of wine AFTER meeting the worker doesn’t mean that he was drunk at or before the time he met the worker.
  
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  October 23, 2024 1:03pm
  - Ghost
    
    And he’s had to go back and change his answer, so his claim to not have had alcohol beforehand now is questionable. The fact he had to change his answer puts his whole answers to the media and the house in question
    
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    October 23, 2024 1:52pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      He didn’t change his answer about not having had a drink when he encountered the worker….
      
      15 1
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      October 23, 2024 3:09pm
    - AitchW
      
      You’re clutching at straws. During his correction he said that he understood the question to mean he had consumed alcohol prior to interaction with the worker.
      After tasting some wine he had no interaction with the worker.
      
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      October 23, 2024 8:12pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Maggy, the issue is not if he was drunk. It is if he had any alcohol at all before the incident with the worker.
    
    Why does he not know for certain if he told the worker to fuck off? How often does he tell people to fuck off?
    
    We are a Q6. No long to Q11.
    
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    October 23, 2024 2:31pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Well, Bayly says he didn’t use those words…
      The worker seems to have formed an impression that Bayly had been drinking (alcohol) but unless new evidence comes to light, that seems incorrect.
      
      Perhaps Bayly used a term like ‘Bugger off” and the worker chap misremembered it.
      
      13 1
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      October 23, 2024 3:18pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        “Well, Bayly says he didn’t use those words”
        
        No, he did not. He said he did not think he did. There is a big difference.
        
        I am disappointed that National and Act did not talk about the evil Jew-hater, Damian O’Connor retweeting that 7 October was justified and at another time telling a reporter to fuck off.
        
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        October 23, 2024 4:30pm
  - Mike
    
    It’s possible he always ‘appears’ to be drunk.
    
    2 5
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    October 23, 2024 2:45pm
  - MCōs
    
    Small point
    He didn’t say he appeared to be drunk, merely had been drinking
    Either way it was a description of his demeanor, which was hardly flattering
    
    2 6
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    October 23, 2024 3:14pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Maggy, I watched Q11. I would say the matter is over unless someone could come up with evidence or testimony to show something Bayly said was untrue.
    
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    October 23, 2024 3:21pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yeah, …I think Labour and MSM have achieved their aim…
      
      Wonder who’s next for the pile-on.
      
      14 1
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      October 23, 2024 3:41pm
      - Paulus
        
        Are we to assume the so called Worker was not a Union Leader ?
        
        2 1
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        October 23, 2024 4:13pm
      - Ghost
        
        Nice attempt to blame the media for the behaviour of the minister. We all know if this was a labour, greens or Maori mp the hypocrites on this blog would be demanding he was replaced as minister. But alas, some here have different standards for right mp’s.
        
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        October 23, 2024 5:33pm
      - Ghost
        
        Actually Paulus, according to the news, he is former military, sounds like he has done a lot for this country, unlike the people attacking him
        
        1 2
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        October 23, 2024 6:07pm
- David Garrett
  
  So? he says the wine was after the incident, therefore alcohol consumption had nothing to do with it.
  
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  October 23, 2024 4:36pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    If he is telling the truth?
    
    2 3
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    October 23, 2024 5:28pm
Chuck Bird

ARENA WILLIAMS to the Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing: Does he stand by his answer to oral question No. 6 yesterday?

Why does not someone from National ask about Jew hater and terrorist supporter Damian O’Conner raise the issue of him telling a female reporter to fuck off and ask if he has apologised to the reporter.

‘F*** off’ – Senior Labour MP swears at journalist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYmnysnqqts
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October 23, 2024 1:15pm
- Ghost
  
  Well he cannot stand by it because he had to go back and correct the answer to admit he had a bit of a wine tasting
  
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  October 23, 2024 1:50pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    To be fair that was after the event. However, if he gets caught lying that will and should reflect badly on Luxon.
    
    Vote ACT!
    
    12 3
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    October 23, 2024 2:12pm
- Inandout
  
  CB, same old story. It is different for the Left.
  
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  October 23, 2024 4:42pm
In Vino Veritas

Further on Kamala Harris and what she has said or did:
1. 20 years as a City|County Attorney, Attorney General of San Fransciso and a Senator, has called for gun control, handing back weapons.
2. Said again and again, there shouldn’t be deportations
3. We will pay for transexual surgeries
4. We will pay for health care for illegal aliens
5. Crossing the border illegally is not a criminal offence
6. The wall has no utility whatsoever
7. Catch and release must be bought back
8. The Defence Budget must not be increased
9. She said that the people that rioted in May, June, July and August of 2020 should not stop. It’s a movement and it should go on.
10. She helped raise bail for violent offenders who looted and committed arson
11. Claims she stands for Israel but supports cutting weapons|munitions supplies to Israel
14 2
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October 23, 2024 1:52pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Candace Owens (a bit of a flake at times), has been doing an entertaining investigation of Kamala’s efforts to ‘blacken’ her ancestry for clout with the left. Turns out her Jamaican dad was from a line of Syrian Jews that mostly intermarried with europeans and indians – his father, mother and siblings were all far more fair skinned than him, which might explain why he got into loopy marxist economics.
  
  And more and more examples of Kamalas plagiarism are coming to light outside of her book – it was her stock in trade when she was doing publicity work as a Californian politician on the rise to take other’s stories and dress them up as her own – just like Biden has made a career of doing.
  
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  October 23, 2024 5:20pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

A Jeffrey Epstein victim made one shocking announcement about the 2024 election.
“And now Epstein victim Virginia Roberts (Giuffre) is throwing her support behind Trump in the 2024 election.
Elon Musk suggested that the powerful people behind Kamala Harris’ campaign were on Epstein’s suppressed client list.”
Virginia needs to lay low – Hillary is still around. She will not allow the truth to come out. Big money has a way of making these things disappear. Elon Musk has bigger money.

https://unmuzzlednews.com/a-jeffrey-epstein-victim-made-one-shocking-announcement-about-the-2024-election/?

Oh this is from “Unmuzzled News. Sorry it is not CNN, MSNBC, or TV1 Network News, the reputable websites.
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October 23, 2024 2:51pm
cmm

Kaitaia – the wee town that punches above its weight when generating news:

“Kaitāia College has gone into lockdown because of fighting and parents coming on site,”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kaitaia-college-in-lockdown-due-to-fighting-trespassing-and-parents-on-site/MA24PGJ3NJBX5FVJP6UHUXAREI/
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October 23, 2024 3:00pm
rouppe

Kiri Allan, Anika Moa’s RNZ podcast released under Official Information Act

Basically a big anti white, anti male tirade.

“It’s not fair I got a fine for drink driving because Dan Carter didn’t”. He probably didn’t do a runner from the scene or make a big performance with the arresting officer.

The overly racist nature of the conversation between those two is quite concerning.
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October 23, 2024 4:30pm
- Swifty
  
  He wasn’t our Minister of Justice and an MP at the time either.
  
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  October 23, 2024 6:36pm
- Colville
  
  Brown lesbians on RNZ…they are part of the chosen “team”
  
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  October 23, 2024 9:04pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Who would want to travel by bus in Auckland?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/531666/person-critically-injured-after-assault-on-auckland-bus
6 1
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October 23, 2024 4:52pm
- Scooter
  
  But Police Inspector Meade says “Auckland is a very safe city, this is a very rare event.”
  
  Really? How many bus attacks have there been now? He would be telling the truth if he actually said, Auckland is not a safe city and violence on buses is increasing.
  
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  October 23, 2024 6:50pm
Ghost

Well I’m surprised. Radio NZ have standards. Since when?

A podcast between Kiwi musician Anika Moa and former minister Kiri Allan, which Radio NZ refused to air due to it not meeting its standards of impartiality, has revealed frank opinions on the perceived privilege of Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and the treatment of Māori in New Zealand politics.

Article

“Chris Luxon’s a guy that the world has always been a place he can be very comfortable in and operate very comfortably in, and it was always probably just an option on the table to become the Prime Minister, because why not.”

“Could have been anyone, any white, pale, male stale,” Moa responded.

Better than the previous PM who just pretended to be everything and anything
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October 23, 2024 5:00pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Two privileged ladies having a whine.
  
  Jeez, life is sooooooo unfair for some who have a platform supported by taxpayer$$$$$.
  
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  October 23, 2024 5:34pm
Observer of Life

I drove past one of our local primary schools today and on the notice board it said “Teacher Only Day – Friday 25th”. I thought Seymour said this malarkey was a gone burger? Or is it this particular school saying a big F – You to the government??
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October 23, 2024 5:21pm
- Inandout
  
  OL, they are a law unto themselves taking advantage of a weak government. Convince me otherwise.
  
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  October 23, 2024 6:31pm
  - Mike
    
    Did Seymour abolish the teacher-only days, or just announce that they would be abolished?
    
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    October 23, 2024 6:39pm
- NothingLeft
  
  They’d already ~~booked their holidays~~ planned work that they had to do on that day long before the announcement was made.
  
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  October 23, 2024 6:53pm
- Jethrod
  
  Well it couldn’t have been Hawkes Bay, because their Anniversary day is on Friday. However it wouldn’t surprise me if they had a TOD on Thursday!
  
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  October 23, 2024 6:58pm
- MCōs
  
  Schools have a prescribed number of half days they must be teaching kids and teacher only days are not included. So if the schools teach on those days they have another day when they don’t.
  
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  October 23, 2024 8:31pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Besides what the ‘other’ media tell you:

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/trump-takes-his-biggest-lead-yet-in-election-prediction-model/ss-AA1sH40S?
Noooo, it can’t be like that.
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October 23, 2024 6:05pm

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