General Debate 20 October 2024

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NeverMindTheBollocks

So, in the last couple of years I’ve started to notice an increase in people using walking sticks (in Wellington). These people are not OAPs, nor do they exhibit a limp or other such infirmity.

From observation they appear to be in the Long Covid clan. The conclusion I’ve tentatively drawn is that, since Long Covid is invisible to the naked eye, the walking stick is a symbol of their membership of the Lefty/ intersectional/ I’m different and special crowd. Call me cynical, but I suspect some of them may not even have had Long Covid.
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October 20, 2024 8:01am
- kevn
  
  Never… ‘Maybe they have issues from the actual jab?
  Two in our family have.
  
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  October 20, 2024 10:02am
Flossie

Congratulations to Team NZ! Great to have won again.
Perhaps there would be more enthusiasm for the event if it had been held here. Or at least in a place where timing made viewing it live a reaonable possibility.
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October 20, 2024 8:10am
- Colville
  
  YouTube makes it live anytime you want to watch.
  But a course where passing was possible would have made it slightly interesting, the finish line may as well have been at the first mark.
  
  Incredible tech tho. 40kts in a 8kt breeze.
  
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  October 20, 2024 8:16am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is incredible. My boat does 40/42 knots and I have 140 hp.
    
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    October 20, 2024 10:02am
- Cassandra
  
  Well done Team. Although it’s not really yachting, is it? I suppose a parallel would be comparing F1 with stock car racing. It’ll never come back to NZ.
  
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  October 20, 2024 8:21am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Sailors riding bikes instead of hoisting sails. Boring.
    
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    October 20, 2024 8:25am
    - kevn
      
      iam… Here’s a tip, don’t watch.
      
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      October 20, 2024 9:49am
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    How many times do you have to win it to be renamed “New Zealand’s Cup”?
    
    After the disgraceful way Dalts was treated by the Govt/MBIE, he’d need a very good reason to consider it here ever again.
    
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    October 20, 2024 8:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    NZ just can’t finance it to hold here. Govt and Council gouging for all they can get.
    The technology required is unreal. And the number of people on the immediate team.
    See how quick they sprang into action when the boat got holed on the cradle? The glass laminate mat and resin was out ready to go before final decisions had been made. Specialist tradesmen. Like little ants, they came from nowhere.
    Today I see one team member had his red socks on. It worked!
    
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    October 20, 2024 8:34am
    - MCōs
      
      Taxpayers & ratepayers combined to fork out a combined quarter of a billion dollars last time it was held in Auckland
      
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      October 20, 2024 9:42am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        How much did the Council grab in Rates for all of the sheds and properties around the viaduct/Wynyard? Millions? Then there is vehicles and trailer parking.
        Then the Govt gets all of that Tax on the petrol used by spectator boats. Then there is all of the GST from the restaurants and hotel accommodation.
        Quarter of a billion – sounds big. $250 million. The Council and Govt made a killing.
        
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        October 20, 2024 10:18am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    They are incredible machines but it is not the same as the old days.
    
    This is a short clip on the celebration it of New Zealand winning the 1995 Cup.
    
    https://youtu.be/Vhk-VSrk3vY?si=IIxtZfdc7mVQDtDJ
    
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    October 20, 2024 8:51am
    - Flossie
      
      So many things are not like the old days. Sometimes that’s sad but sometimes it’s for the better. But I know what you mean about the boats.
      
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      October 20, 2024 8:56am
      - AitchW
        
        They’re amazing to watch. The old days of floundering around at 4 knots in 12m boats are gone. Foiling is the thing now. Everything on the water foils.
        I for one can’t wait for Sail GP off Wynyard Wharf on the new t foils. We have our tickets secure in the knowledge that the race won’t be cancelled because there’s a dolphin somewhere in the harbour.
        Hats off to ETNZ, to Grant Dalton and to Barcelona for a seamless regatta. What a ride! Arise Sir Grant, arise Sir Peter (Burling) .
        
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        October 20, 2024 9:13am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Things have changed since 1912 International twelve foot sailing dinghy racing.
      Now we have board sailing on foils.
      
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      October 20, 2024 10:22am
    - cmm
      
      Even the 1995 race was not like the old days.
      
      1995 was the start of the fancy keels where computer modelling played a major part in the NZ win.
      
      I had the opportunity to visit the NZ team in San Deigo, accompanying someone high up in NZ sailing circles so we managed to get into areas the public couldn’t. They didn’t let us go everywhere though.
      
      While the Team USA had JPL (NASA) and Boeing available to do their computer modelling, Team NZ had a huge benefit – they had their computer modelling people on site. That allowed them to iterate models much faster than sending them off to JPL.
      
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      October 20, 2024 10:23am
  - Grumpy Silver Top
    
    Cassandra, listening to the chat on board the boats takes me right back to my yacht racing days. The craft may look different but they still ride the wind and water as sailing boats have always done.
    
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    October 20, 2024 9:06am
    - Cassandra
      
      Indeed, and very skilled sailors they are.
      
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      October 20, 2024 9:59am
- mandk
  
  I don’t imagine it would ever hapoen, but I think Wellington Harbour would be great for viewing.
  
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  October 20, 2024 8:24am
- Handyman
  
  Exactly.
  Proponents say having it in Auckland will boost tourism with millions being able to watch. “It will put Auckland on the map”. “Lift spirits”.
  
  NO. It is an obscure event on the other side of the world in the wrong time zone. If in Auckland there will be fewer contestants due to cost and lack of sponsors (see above re number of viewers).
  If in Auckland it will be a boring expensive event.
  
  Speaking of boring, how many times was the leader at the first mark NOT the eventual winner?
  
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  October 20, 2024 8:41am
- Paulus
  
  Agreed well done, but who will pay the sort of money they have been assured in other parts of the World and some other possible contenders have said New Zealand is too far away from the real world.
  Barcelona did a great job, but the Arabs will pay more for the limelight.
  
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  October 20, 2024 8:48am
Grunter

Attempted assassination attempt on Netanyahu. Israel would be better off without him. Although, just like Hamas, you take out one warmongering leader and you just get another one. Meanwhile thousands more innocent civilians will die in coming days as Israel bombs the crap out of Iran and tit-for-tat escalates.
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October 20, 2024 8:15am
Colville

I am going to be forced to watch test cricket this afternoon…. 😱. Chance to beat India in India!
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October 20, 2024 8:18am
- MCōs
  
  Rain forecast, unfortunately, which is bad news on two fronts. If it’s raining, there’s no cricket and when it stops batting seems to be difficulty.
  Those Indian crowds sure make a racket when their boys are doing OK, and that includes our main man Rachin whose family lives in that town.
  
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  October 20, 2024 9:56am
kevn

Americas Cup… Interesting to note that Grant Dalton is much more low profile this time around.
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October 20, 2024 8:23am
Flossie

Last night I deliberately (although it’s popular to say “accidentally “) watched TV1 news at 6. This was because I was very interested to know if something was actually going to be mentioned. It was, but that’s not my point.
My point is that they’ve totally given up calling this country by it’s proper name and several times referred to that A place, without even adding New Zealand. This is not what the majority want.
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October 20, 2024 8:23am
- Gravelroad
  
  The previous government told the media what to say and do. And paid them.
  Interesting that even though the money has dried up, TV1 hasn’t been willing or able to move on and recognise that times have changed.
  
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  October 20, 2024 8:38am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Infested with activists now.
    
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    October 20, 2024 9:21am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The majority does not matter to the elite.
  
  I commented a couple of days ago on a job advertisement for a large government agency. To be successful, one of the criteria was “a commitment to embed te ao Maori into everything we do.” 😳
  
  I am confident in my judgement that this absolutism has occurred after the election of the current government. Why don’t they stop it?
  
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  October 20, 2024 8:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Luxon is why.
    
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    October 20, 2024 8:41am
  - Grumpy Silver Top
    
    The wheels of bureaucracy grind exceeding slow. Apologies to Charles Dickens.
    
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    October 20, 2024 9:09am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The TV1 dickheads need to be told it is “Emerates Team New Zealand.”
  
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  October 20, 2024 8:39am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Which they will ignore. Then what?
    
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    October 20, 2024 8:43am
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Then they will continue to enjoy small audience numbers, lower advertising revenue and their existence will be more vulnerable. They will complain about the difficulties with competing against global television, internet companies etc. But in reality they are in a demise largely if their own making.
      
      If they ran a mainstream company, aimed at appealing to the masses, without activist content and a balanced newsroom, they would enjoy a massive increase in viewership. The public at large would be better served and a handful of activists would be put back into the shadows where they belong.
      
      The biggest problem is that they get tax funded so have bureaucratic webs and safety nets to hold them on their path to destruction.
      
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      October 20, 2024 9:05am
- amospicton
  
  And pretty much every segment was a hit job on the government. An acquaintance was on the recent trade mission and in his view the press hate the government. Can’t even abide being in the same room. That’s OK if it’s a private business but TVNZ is publicly owned. It really needs to be scrupulously neutral.
  
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  October 20, 2024 8:45am
- Paulus
  
  It appears that TVNZ for one, had done away with the name New Zealand almost totally now in every comment-
  I assume this is a deliberate act to tell the Government ( and the people who elected to vote them in) where to go, as they did not elect them via their media.
  Sherman is the worse currently, overdoing Tova by a mile, and will one day get her uppance.
  
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  October 20, 2024 8:53am
- Grizz
  
  I do not understand why a media backer doesn’t start their own news show that calls the country New Zealand, uses the the proper place names, uses language we can all understand and provides balanced reporting. If they did there may be an audience.
  
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  October 20, 2024 9:26am
Benedict Yu

For those intro cricket New Zealand need 107 runs to beat India in the first test.

Also the New Zealand women have made it to the final of the T20 world cup. 😃
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October 20, 2024 8:42am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  With the new ball playing a few tricks now (and it’s bound to turn for their spinners), it’s not a lay down misere that NZ will get those 107.
  
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  October 20, 2024 8:51am
  - pdm
    
    Yep I remember when NZ struggled to get 11o (I think) against Pakistan in Hamilton – were we 9 down?
    
    Mind you Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram were a notch or two better than Indias current pair of Bumrah and Siraj. Good and all as Bumrah is.
    
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    October 20, 2024 9:45am
- mandk
  
  India blew it badly after being in 400+ for 3.
  
  A collapse by the Black Caps is not altogether impossible, but Black Caps to win by 4 wickets?
  
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  October 20, 2024 8:52am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    If India had set 160 to win instead of 107, I think that it would now have been even odds.
    
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    October 20, 2024 9:42am
  - pdm
    
    m&k – just needs one batsman to get 50 plus.
    
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    October 20, 2024 9:46am
- Cassandra
  
  Massive if the B Caps win. Who’d have thought? ✔️✔️🇳🇿
  
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  October 20, 2024 9:02am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    TAB odds on a New Zealand win were $7 at the start of the match.
    
    IIRC the New Zealand women were paying $23 to win the T20 world cup.
    
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    October 20, 2024 9:18am
    - MCōs
      
      At the start of the Women’s CWC only a fool would have put money on NZ reaching the final, or India being out for their lowest score at home in 581 tests since the game was invented
      
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      October 20, 2024 10:13am
Scooter

I think this story is more a hit job on Luxon than a warning to to morons that still trust their money with dodgy online outfits. It jus beggars belief that people are still this gullible.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/pensioner-loses-224k-after-being-tricked-by-ai-deepfake-christopher-luxon-cryptocurrency-investment-scam/YLG3EQMOAZATVARBL5ITDRL2DA/
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October 20, 2024 8:45am
Yvette

Death, mana and Peter Ellis: lawyer Natalie Coates – the Afterlife of Peter Ellis

Was the shift from a Western concept – “that a person reputation became a legacy after death and if wronged in life, it should be corrected even after death as a simple act of human decency” – to the introduction of a matter of tikanga, a cultural misappropriation (of Ellis’s culture) and a chance to spread that through the legal system, in a way that uses and may actually further demean Peter Ellis’ reputation?

• The notion that tikanga could apply to Pākeha as well as Māori would be a profound development. The Supreme Court would be signalling that arguments based on concepts like hara (wrongs) and mana or utu could be expected in almost any realm of the law. Strangely, this pivotal moment was reached almost by chance — a result of the evolution of our Supreme Court and the hidden process by which justices are chosen.

… for the most part, a person’s legal endeavours end with their death. New Zealand’s Solicitor-General Una Jagose QC was explaining why the Crown didn’t believe Ellis should be an exception when she was interrupted by Justice Susan Glazebrook.
“[Perhaps] if you could address the tikanga aspects of this,” Glazebrook said. “Because as we know . . . those sort of issues in respect of miscarriages of justice, and obviously collective but as well as individual cases, have a profound effect right through the generations.”

Jagose rumbled on with her prepared remarks without addressing the question. But then Justice Joe Williams, the Supreme Court’s first Māori judge, broke in. The idea that a person has no reputation to protect after death is “quite a western idea”, he ruminated. “In a tikanga context,” he went on, after death “an ancestor has even more reputation to protect, is more tapu, has more mana.”
https://northandsouth.co.nz/2021/07/27/peter-ellis-tikanga/

So the tikanga aspect was suggested (far as I can see) by the Supreme Court Judges – Justice Susan Glazebrook and Justice Joe Williams, the Supreme Court’s first Māori judge.

• Ellis, however, was Pākehā. Now, Glazebrook and Williams were asking whether his effort to clear his name should be allowed to go ahead because of the implications for his mana — which, according to Māori custom, endures and fluctuates in both life and death.
“I would appreciate an opportunity to think about that point, which it’s quite clear I haven’t thought through,” said Jagose.

She wasn’t the only one who seemed to be caught off guard. Justice Terence Arnold suggested that if the court were to apply tikanga in the Ellis case, he would like to understand the implications for other areas of the law. “For myself, I have not the faintest idea what the answer to that is,” he said.
The Supreme Court gave the two legal teams five weeks to prepare a response. The underlying questions were so complex that five weeks turned into seven months.
https://northandsouth.co.nz/2021/07/27/peter-ellis-tikanga/.

– seven months to prepare ~~a Trojan Horse~~ a Tikanga Hoiho, using (or again abusing) Peter Ellis
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October 20, 2024 9:03am
TripeWryter

I’ve just been reading a piece in The New Zealand Herald written by George Block about HMNZS Manawanui.
(Well done, George, for remembering not to write ‘the HMNZS’ …).
The Herald is clearly pushing for answers from the Royal New Zealand Navy and trying to pressure the service into providing information about Manawanui’s sinking.
I doubt that the Navy will allow itself to be pushed around.
The RNZN is following the tried and true process of a court of inquiry doing its job of finding the facts of the ship’s loss.
That’s where the facts will be found; not in the columns of The New Zealand Herald or other media outlets.
The court of inquiry will be tough for the ship’s captain, Cdr Yvonne Gray, and her officers particularly.
As I wrapped up reading the Herald story and its demand for transparency from the RNZN, the Defence Force, and everybody else connected with HMNZS Manawanui, I was reminded of the irony of The New Zealand Herald’s own rigidly held lack of transparency with its audience.
The New Zealand Herald is still to be transparent about the settlement it had to reach with the news activist Chantelle Baker, who sued it for defaming her.
I don’t know how the Herald can expect openness and transparency from the Navy when it doesn’t practise what it seems to preach.
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October 20, 2024 9:12am
- MCōs
  
  “The court of inquiry will be tough for the ship’s captain, Cdr Yvonne Gray, and her officers particularly.”
  Shouldn’t you wait to see what the findings are first?
  
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  October 20, 2024 10:20am
lastmanstanding

One of the tennants of good governace is the ability to write laws that are transparent concise and clear in their intention so the Courts apply them rather than is the case “interpret” them.
Sadly Governments of all colours have either lost the ability or in the case of the Left write laws that allow their mates on the Bench to”interpret” them to both’s advantage.
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October 20, 2024 9:14am
AitchW

ETNZ win, Black Caps win, White Ferns win, Auckland FC wins its first A league game, its a great weekend to be a proud Kiwi!
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October 20, 2024 9:15am
AitchW

While we’re talking about ETNZ, I love how you never hear about any of the team going out, getting pickled, and getting into fights. They don’t get charged for drug offences, assault, drunk driving, family violence, or any of the other crap that so many other sports do.
Well done them! They really do us proud as a country.
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October 20, 2024 9:19am
- Don Beckett
  
  There is an obscure underlying reason for that – but my lips are sealed. 🙂
  
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  October 20, 2024 9:44am
  - pdm
    
    Come on DB – spit it out.
    
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    October 20, 2024 9:48am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Do you recall the Howard Morrison funny song – ‘My Old Man’s an All Black” – about the race based selection for the tour of apartheid South Africa ?
      
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      October 20, 2024 10:03am
pdm

I had a lick yesterday at the free (well an Insurance Company would have paid) $10mill on offer from one of the big races in Aussie – Biscuits favourite – The Everest. One just had to predict the finishers in the correct order.

I got two correct 8th and 9th – did anyone else have a go.
It is possible as someone got it right last year and pocketd $10million for no outlay.

BTW the other big race in Aus yesterday was the Caulfield Cup – a proven lead up to the Melbourne Cup which is on Tuesday 5 November.
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October 20, 2024 9:53am

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