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October 12, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 12 October 2024

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Souvlaki

Simply put, those responsible for this attrocious decision should be summarily fired….end of story!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/asian-staff-removed-from-north-shore-hospital-surgery-after-patient-request/LMBPJCYGSRFSJI6H5H5HPPDFSA/
I see this with the same distain as Maori only spaces at Auckland University and latterly the push to compulsorily be indoctriated in Maoritanga from next year.
Is the Govt going to step up on this creep of racism…or sit on their hands?
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October 12, 2024 8:06am
- David Garrett
  
  Souv: I actually look at this one from the opposite perspective. We are frequently told that Maori must have “culturally safe” treatment, which I take to mean if a Maori patient wants Maori nurses caring for him/her if they are available then he gets what he wants.
  
  If that’s OK, then it must also be OK for this guy – identified as a man in the caption to the pic, but then annoyingly referred as “they” – to not have Asian nurses which make him feel “culturally unsafe”.
  All total bullshit of course, but then we live in a world full of bullshit
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:20am
  - Souvlaki
    
    Logically…you’re spot on DG! Im of the belief the ‘ culturally safe space ‘ idea for Maori is a steaming pile of dung too…but hey…what would a dinosaur know??!🧐
    
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    October 12, 2024 8:39am
    - David Garrett
      
      Souv: I’m prepared to bet that if a Maori facing a serious op was given a choice of a newly graduated Maori house surgeon or a honkey with 25 years experience, 90% would choose the honkey
      
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      October 12, 2024 8:50am
      - cmm
        
        A house surgeon wouldn’t be getting a chance to do a serious op, but I get your point.
        
        You’d really have to be the most crazy activist to go with the Maori guy.
        
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        October 12, 2024 9:53am
      - peterwn
        
        There is also a hypothetical scenario where A assaults B causing grievous bodily harm. B would survive with urgent surgery. However B rejects the choice of surgeon on ethnic grounds. Before an alternative surgeon could be arranged B unfortunately dies. Could A be charged and convicted for homicide (ie murder or manslaughter)? Generally if someone dies as a result of injuries within a certain period after a serious assault it is treated as homicide. But in this scenario B would be arguably responsible for his own demise.
        
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        October 12, 2024 10:16am
      - sirknz
        
        It would depend on the phases of the moon…
        
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        October 12, 2024 11:34am
      - fernglas
        
        peterwn. Arguably responsible? Morally, perhaps, but not legally. The legal responsibility remains with the person who inflicted the injury. It’s analogous to the “eggshell skull” rule; you take your victim as you find them.
        
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        October 12, 2024 5:50pm
  - pdm
    
    DG from the Herald.
    
    `There has been significant fallout from the episode, which is understood to have involved a request by a Pākehā patient undergoing surgery at North Shore Hospital.’
    
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    October 12, 2024 8:47am
    - David Garrett
      
      Pdm: Yes, i read the story
      
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      October 12, 2024 8:55am
    - Surely Knott
      
      3 times they get the word Pakeha in the article in the top three paragraphs. In the photo caption at the top, paragraph one and paragraph three.
      
      Ok. Fair enough. But what about other reporting on racist attacks. Can you find the race of the perpetrators in the first three paragraphs if at all.
      
      In article one the racist shouting at the passengers is described only as a woman and the video is blurred to protect the racists identity.
      
      In this second article where teh person said You’re my servant this is my country and hit and injured the bus driver it does describe them once as Maori or Pacifica in paragraph 14.
      
      Third article, the kid had his teeth smashed out with a pole on the bus no mention by RNZ of the race of the attacker. The only reason we now know the attackers race is because the victims post on Chinese social media where he fully described the attacker and posted video but that description was not given in NZ media.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/police-charge-woman-after-alleged-racist-abuse-on-auckland-bus-caught-on-video/O2XVQYWTJ5EYLKYZK7XE2PIGJM/#google_vignette
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-bus-attack-driver-told-he-was-a-servant-abused-and-punched-on-avondale-route-in-racially-charged-attack-suspect-at-large/HMKLUUXY5JEW3C2MBQXVQJQUFY/
      
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/chinese/521000/police-seek-witnesses-after-auckland-teenager-on-bus-assaulted-with-metal-rod
      
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      October 12, 2024 10:06am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    What if I told you people can change their culture as they wish at any time and culture is fluid? Would not the best culture for medicine be “don’t be nasty, and stick to evidence based practice!”? We all live in one big shared culture. It’s called modernity. You know you’re soaking in it (bro)?
    
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    October 12, 2024 6:28pm
- Gravelroad
  
  So has a precedent been set here?
  If it is acceptable for one patient to demand special treatment and pick and choose who looks after them while in hospital care, does that mean we all can?
  Health NZ, or whatever, needs to clarify this promptly otherwise, people being the way they are today, will create an unsustainable situation on the wards where only hand picked staff can treat patients with the power to call the shots. Literally.
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:29am
  - imalwaysright
    
    I would have used the new “N” word.
    
    No.
    
    It seems that these days when race is mentioned everyone goes to pucker factor 9 and nods vigorously in compliance.
    
    Time to say NO!
    
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    October 12, 2024 8:40am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Just luv that ‘pucker factor 9 ‘. 😆
      
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      October 12, 2024 10:21am
  - igm
    
    Build a flax hut in the car park (if there is one), and provide tohungas . . . see what they do then!
    
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    October 12, 2024 8:48am
    - Phronesis
      
      They complain that their health outcomes aren’t as good as everyone else’s, blame racism, and demand more money for more tohungas.
      
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      October 12, 2024 12:35pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      IGM that would be too obvious and would starkly call BS on the luxury beliefs. We can’t have that.
      
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      October 12, 2024 6:30pm
  - G152
    
    Such demands should be met with the patients instant discharge from the Hospital grounds.
    Dont play racist games
    
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    October 12, 2024 8:49am
    - David Garrett
      
      G: And what about Maori demands that they be treated in a “culturally safe” manner?
      
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      October 12, 2024 9:53am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Why does “cultural safety” matter if you need medical treatment? I just don’t get it. Surely you just care about expertise? Cultural safety is getting authentic steamed pork buns. What is culturally safe heart surgery?
        
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        October 12, 2024 10:40am
      - David Garrett
        
        Bene: Excellent point…I couldn’t give a rat’s about the race of who was operating on me…but then every Tongan doctor I know up here says “When pain get on the plane” !!
        
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        October 12, 2024 10:47am
      - Ghost
        
        How about if your surgeon got into medical school on a quota, and got hired by the hospital because of their race?
        
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        October 12, 2024 10:52am
      - G152
        
        Then allow them to visit whatever native or natural healer they feel happy with…..
        
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        October 12, 2024 10:59am
      - peterwn
        
        Ghost (I cannot reply directly). The circumstances of medical school entry or the hospital’s hiring policy would have almost nothing to do with the competence of a surgeon. Specialist surgeons have had to obtain the FRACS qualification and that would require written/oral exams, evidence of competency etc and this would be no pushover. This takes 9 years or so following graduation from medical school. Senior surgical registrars would only be allowed to operate if the specialist supervising surgeon is satisfied with their competence. A junior registrar accepted for surgical training would need to demonstrate competence at all stages of training to be allowed to continue training.
        
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        October 12, 2024 11:38am
      - Phronesis
        
        Peterwn, your confidence in the system is touching. The problem is that consultant surgeons and their college are not immune to being called racist. Certain surgical specialties are very much the domain of the very best students. When you select that heavily it would be impossible for those who have been admitted with lower grades to have a chance.
        It’s essentially the same scenario from med school entry through to fellowships. Standards must be “relaxed” so that diversity is achieved.
        
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        October 12, 2024 12:43pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Like Davison and a certain corrupt ex justice minster
        
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        October 12, 2024 2:21pm
      - PaulP
        
        DG, the only reason the asking for non-Asian nurses hasn’t caused more of a stink will be because it was a Māori patient asking.
        
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        October 12, 2024 5:51pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Japan has one of the best medical systems in the world (if not THE best). Do you think they give a flying cuck about “cultural safety”? Not as far as I’m aware. They’ll do a very good job of sorting your medical issues though.
        
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        October 12, 2024 6:32pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    The response in the article from Health NZ suggests this person had unique issues and “complex needs”.
    
    ““We regularly manage patients who have varied and complex needs and have processes in place to ensure our staff are safe and patients get the care they need. This includes developing, executing, and monitoring individual behaviour management plans for some patients.” the spokesperson said.
    
    What were the complex needs? . Could the person have dementia or some sort of acute psychiatric issues that made them decide to just comply with the request rather than explain why it was wrong?
    
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    October 12, 2024 10:16am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Just put a mask on him so he can’t see who is assisting the surgeon.
      Special needs was his urgent operation – the rest is bullshit.
      
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      October 12, 2024 10:22am
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    Any patient can ask to have another doctor look after them if they are in unhappy with their care – there is also the front door they can fuck right out of
    
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    October 12, 2024 11:49am
    - marcw
      
      Yes, but the reason for requesting another doctor should not include “race”. If you want to choose your health provider go private, the public health service is for everyone. I agree, they should have been given the list of health insurers (Southern Cross, NIB etc.), and shown the door.
      
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      October 12, 2024 12:24pm
- Yvette
  
  “Where the hell are those rush blood test results? We are going to loose this man!”
  “What? We have already done those tests for this patient”
  “No – when he was conscious he said he didn’t want to have any Asians attending to him – the tests are for the ER team”
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:33am
  - AitchW
    
    How do you know that person identifies as a man?
    What are their pronouns?
    What have we become?
    
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    October 12, 2024 11:03am
- Paulus
  
  Sit on their hands, and will be shocked at the result of the next Coalition Government numbers.
  Luxon is weaseling and it will not favour him now.
  I am formerly a two vote Nainonal all my life but am reconsidering for the first time.
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:41am
- Damocles11
  
  The purportedly ‘racist’ person is purported to be ‘Pakeha’, which is part of the fad for defining everyone and everything in New Zealand from a Maori (activist / academic) point of view. How many years will it be before an article on a purported ‘racist’ will describe the hated perpetrator as ‘Tangata Tiriti’? Probably not many, because everything must now seemingly be framed in terms that of ‘ Te Tiriti o Waitangi’.
  But if race shouldn’t be a factor in New Zealand, why are we being divided by race, with some people being given special rights and privileges based on (a part of) their DNA? Why is ‘by Maori, by Maori’ a thing? Why do Maori need separate state agencies, run by Maori for the benefit of Maori? Isn’t that racist?
  Speaking of racist, will the mainstream media be connecting the dots on the outbreak of racist attacks on Asians / Indians in Auckland buses? Why is the ethnicity of the perpetrators fudged, hidden, or buried? Where is the boiling national outrage over an Indian bus driver being told “this is my country and you are my servant” as he is violently assaulted? Or do we hold ‘Pakeha’ hospital patients to a different moral standard that appalling violent entho-nationalists knocking the teeth out of someones head or breaking their back under a welter of kicks? Yes, we probably do. ‘Pakeha’ are expected to know better and curb their supposed horrible innate racist traits, and the MSM will gleefully report any instances where the hated ‘Pakeha’ have transgressed, while others have carte blanche to back racist words with metal bars and fists.
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:56am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Are Chinese folk “pakeha”?
    
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    October 12, 2024 10:43am
    - rouppe
      
      Strictly speaking, probably yes.
      
      But since Nicholas Jones looks like a twenty- something, in his mind, likely only white people are pakeha
      
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      October 12, 2024 11:11am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Good question. Is there an agreed official definition of what “Pakeha” means???
      
      Or is wanting clarity on that also “divisive” to the poor dears.
      
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      October 12, 2024 6:34pm
- MCōs
  
  Reminds me of a story I heard, supposedly true, that a captured, wounded German soldier refused a blood transfusion unless the blood was guaranteed Jewish free.
  He died.
  Then there was the parents a couple of years ago who refused blood for their baby unless it came from unvaccinated donors.
  
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  October 12, 2024 9:10am
  - Taieri
    
    Then there was the parents a couple of years ago who refused blood for their baby unless it came from unvaccinated donors
    ————-
    
    Adherents of Jehovah’s Witnesses faith don’t accept blood transfusions at all.
    
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    October 12, 2024 10:10am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      The authorities do not allow children of Jehovas witness parents to die for want of a blood transfusion.
      
      IIRC the same thing happened with the stupid parents about ‘vaccinated blood’. The courts intervened.
      
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      October 12, 2024 10:45am
      - MCōs
        
        What happened to that baby?
        Apart from it’s bad start to life having such hardline parents how’s it’s general health?
        
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        October 12, 2024 11:47am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Ben – You are supremely arrogant around your faith in the mRNA treatments and the way you label caring parents as stupid is abhorrent. You also draw a false equivalence between what these parents requested and the JW example. They weren’t opposed to the blood transfusion, they just wanted blood from non-mRNA donors. They even had their own donors. But blood transfusion service wasn’t prepared to offer this service. A stance that I can understand from a practicality perspective but suspect was also rooted heavily in ideology.
        
        Are the parents wrong for wanting to avoid blood subjected to the novel mRNA treatment for their baby? Remember lots of people have been adversely impacted by bad blood — haemophilia, HIV, hepatitis, mad cow disease – so it is not infallible. While the state have ruled against their wish, and Ben is convinced they are stupid parents, I congratulate them on their desire to protect their baby from what is in the least very new technology which may have unknown and undesirable side effects.
        
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        October 12, 2024 3:52pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Are the parents wrong for wanting to avoid blood subjected to the novel mRNA treatment for their baby?”
        
        Yes. It is utterly mad.
        
        I am not arrogant. It angers me that such stupid people would risk the life of their child.
        
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        October 12, 2024 4:13pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Ben – I’m surprised that someone with your ability to reason would take such an extreme position on something that is clearly too new to be fully known. The fallibility of our knowledge has been demonstrated time and time again. The Romans used lead for water pipes, today we know not to do this as it causes health issues. We know now to screen for blood defects like haemophilia for blood transfusions but many died from this in the past — read April Fools Day by Bryce Courtney to learn about the devastating consequences this had for his son. Drs used to drain people’s blood thinking this would fix illnesses but instead it killed them, just search online for Pfizer lawsuits and there are many examples of prosecutions over medical treatments that have been harmfully administered.
        
        While you have made no bones about your personal faith in the Covid treatments, at the very least the fact these haven’t been recommended for infants should give you some pause to think about what harm they could cause a baby. Surely you can find some empathy for parents wanting to make sure their baby gets the safest treatment possible.
        
        Were the parents the ones playing with the life of their child or was it in fact the ideological position of the blood transfusion service that dictated this? If these services operated in a free market environment would it be possible to pay to have blood taken and vetted from self selected donors?
        
        To be unequivocally black and white on this shows a blind faith in knowledge acquisition and the denial of human fallibility through ignorance and/or malevolence that is frankly absurd. To label the parents as stupid and mad because they don’t feel like playing blood transfusion roulette with their child is arrogant.
        
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        October 12, 2024 5:12pm
- Tomtoddy
  
  This is, in part at least, a result of recent governments willing to allow issues to be determined by race/skin colour and not merit and colour blinded-ness.
  
  It is a horrifying development that needs strong, determined leadership to completely erase. It will lead to violence as sure as night follows day.
  
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  October 12, 2024 9:18am
  - H. Upmann
    
    Agree, but “strong, determined leadership”…..where will that come from? Certainly not from the current National lead Government.
    
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    October 12, 2024 10:21am
    - pdm
      
      H.U – not from the National part of it anyway.
      
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      October 12, 2024 12:02pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Health NZ declined to comment on those details, and said publishing them would be irresponsible.” Exposing a racist is irresponsible?
  Staff should have a safe working environment free from violence, verbal abuse, and racism. Now if you remove the threat there is no problem.
  Tell the patient to put his clothes on and fuck off.
  
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  October 12, 2024 10:13am
- Ghost
  
  I actually prefer the Philippine nurses at our hospital, they are better than the kiwi ones. But I know at the gp clinic if I need to see my gp and he is away, there are a couple of doctors there that if offered appointments with them i just won’t take it.
  
  This may seem wrong but the person for what ever reason was not comfortable with the staff. Was it a person who had a previous bad experience? Was it a racist twit? The best outcome for the patient is to make him comfortable, the best outcome for the staff is to not put them in a position of being racially abused.
  
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  October 12, 2024 10:15am
  - G152
    
    2016 I was diagnosed with Non Hodgkins Melanoma Stage 3.
    All the oncologists, 10 of them, were foreigners as were some of the nurses.
    I’m alive, in good health and its all thanks to foreigners
    
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    October 12, 2024 11:06am
    - MCōs
      
      I had a hip replacement in Bangkok more than twenty years ago. Medical team was Thai top to bottom. Prosthetic still going fine!
      When I had cancer last year in NZ 75% staff were Asian. Quite frankly I wasn’t counting the actual percentages. Whatever — none of the patients were complaining like that ungrateful cunt
      
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      October 12, 2024 11:59am
  - Flossie
    
    Isn’t saying the Philippinas are better nurses than the “kiwi” ones somewhat of a generalisation? I know several NZ nurses who are absolutely The Best. Not saying the others aren’t great too but be fair!
    
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    October 12, 2024 11:25am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    The person may actually just be a very elderly duffer muttering general crap. Possibly even suffering from some form of dementia.
    
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    October 12, 2024 6:39pm
- rouppe
  
  Mat Danaher, the E tū union director responsible for hospitals and care, said, if true, the incident would be very disappointing.
  
  “We believe Te Whatu Ora has a responsibility to provide a safe working environment for its staff, and that pandering to racism cannot play a part in that.
  
  “Instead the organisation needs to educate patients on the important role all staff, irrespective of origin, play in delivering care.”
  
  Wasn’t E Tu right behind the Maori Health Authority?
  
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  October 12, 2024 11:15am
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350444970/once-thriving-mask-factory-sale-1-reserve

So he bought the company at the start of 2024 for $88,000, at which time there was no longer an existing contract with the Govt .

( “The company was currently worth $2.2m on paper but had been in “hibernation” following its last contract which was to supply 17 million masks to Health NZ for one year, Taylor said.” )

So who did he see as his customers ? Did he contact the Govt at all in regard to renewal of contract before buying the company?

The next quote sums up the problem:

“But the Government was now purchasing respirators and masks from China.
Taylor said he had originally bought the company to “see what could be done with this incredible capability”.
“Naively thinking I would get support from the Government to keep this essential business in New Zealand.”

Naive is right.
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October 12, 2024 8:07am
- Colinxy
  
  It’s an interesting problem. One of the issues of the pandemic response was over supply chains, especially medical equipment: too much dependence on China in a nutshell. This can be fine and dandy amongst great allies, but a bit more of a potential issue otherwise.
  
  Of course, here in NZ we don’t seem to care about strategic assets.
  
  Whether masks constitute strategic assets is another argument entirely, but your post in a general sense is worth considering: do we need to keep certain assets “in-house” for times of uncertainty, for example, in war?
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:28am
  - rouppe
    
    I think we do. We should start with oil and gas
    
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    October 12, 2024 11:16am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Yep. But without a form of direct democracy, all good things will be swept away by the next schizophrenic pendulum swing at the general election. Direct democracy referendums mean important decisions are cemented in with overwhelming majority support. The west is doomed without this.
      
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      October 12, 2024 6:43pm
- nathie
  
  But the Government was now purchasing respirators and masks from China.
  
  I do have a concern that NZ appears to be disregarding the lessons learnt (or were being touted) during the pandemic – which was NZ needs to become more self-reliant and have the capacity to manufacture its own essential products, where practical and reasonable, and I’d assume this would be the case here.
  
  However, it’s unclear whether this is already the case (i.e. the article doesn’t explain if there are other NZ manufacturers supplying similar products to the NZ market and can then step up).
  
  The other curious thing about this article is, “the Government” is blamed and by inference the reader would conclude that to be the current Government (“bad National” etc).
  
  However one could reasonably deduce the decision to stop purchasing from this factory was actually made during the term of the Labour Government!
  
  Perhaps that’s why it wasn’t noted as such and one can glean that from the fact that the individual bought the factory at the beginning of 2024 (for $88,000) which suggests the factory was actually for sale during 2023 (i.e. after a period of time awaiting further contracts which didn’t eventuate).
  
  Perhaps Chippie could be asked for comment why under his then Prime Ministership that Labour weren’t supporting NZ businesses and why Labour disregarded the importance of securing local supply chains (as a lesson learnt from their covid response)?
  
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  October 12, 2024 9:09am
  - greybeard
    
    All I was trying to get across to readers was that this kid naively bought a lemon: the Govt had already decided to buy Chinese so this factory was a goner.
    A case of “no due diligence”.
    
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    October 12, 2024 9:53am
    - cmm
      
      I think the kid had thought they’d bought a government-filled gravy trough.
      Greedy, naive person.
      
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      October 12, 2024 9:59am
    - nathie
      
      All good Greybeard, could see that (and is a fair point you made well)!
      
      But Colinxy and I took the opportunity to some additional thoughts! 🙂
      
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      October 12, 2024 10:48am
  - cmm
    
    There is only one way to “support” a business like this: massively overspending taxpayer $ on overpriced local products.
    
    If you want to spend $5 on a mask that costs 50 cents, then that is going to cut into health budgets etc.
    
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    October 12, 2024 9:58am
- kevn
  
  grey… Wait for the planned bird flu ‘epidemic’…
  https://www.malone.news/p/unregistered-british-birds-flock
  
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  October 12, 2024 9:27am
- imalwaysright
  
  Telling the kid the company was in “hibernation” was inspired!
  
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  October 12, 2024 10:15am
David Garrett

Good morning fellow commenters…a very pleasant 23C this morning in the Magic Kingdom…but raining on and off
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October 12, 2024 8:08am
- gorse
  
  That would be a cold morning for the locals. When I worked there the locals would be in jackets etc. Same in Noumea, I remember on a 23C morning there the hotel had a fire lit.
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:41am
- Biscuit
  
  Shocking stuff, David.
  
  Here in Wellington (well, in Upper Hutt) the sun i shining, we’re already reached a scorching 12 o C at 9am, Wellington are in the NPC Semifinals, I have survived a cinema trip to catch a Transformers movie with next door’s littlie, there are umpteen racetrack winners for me to find in the next 12 hours, life is idyllic!
  
  And did I brag that I tin budgie to Seedknee midweek so as to catch The Everest racemeeting at Randwick next Saturday?
  
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  October 12, 2024 9:00am
  - David Garrett
    
    Biscuit: 12C is not too bad! And good luck with those horses…did i ever confess here i was once a runner for a pub bookie? A very interesting part of my life…Something the jackals in the media never dug up.
    
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    October 12, 2024 9:05am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    The link would be paywalled. However, if you wait a while you can read it here.
    
    https://www.brucecotterill.com/all-blog-posts/
    
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    October 12, 2024 12:35pm
Tauhei Notts

Bruce Cotterill’s column in this morning’s N.Z. Herald is one of his best.
If anybody can provide a link to it, please do so.
Bruce touches on a matter that has been irritating the crap out of me for quite some time. The inordinate waste of money on Anti Money Laundering legislation requirements.
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October 12, 2024 8:08am
- David Garrett
  
  Tauhei: Another of the many reasons I enjoy practising law in the Kingdom- I can open a new file without having my client fill out half a dozen forms and without my needing to know where he lived 20 years ago or what kind of toothpaste he uses.
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:25am
- Paulus
  
  Talking of the Herald – its baby in the BOP Times this morning, in broadsheet, has eleven full pages of Harvey Norman Advertising, out of twenty four in all, mainly taxpayer paid for crap anyway.
  If only my wife would forgo the Cryptic Crossword daily it would make my week/months.
  Pity we do not have a cat for somewhere for it to crap !
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:47am
  - Damocles11
    
    Thanks for the info, I won’t be buying any products from Harvey Norman going forward as it seems they are happy to bankroll the left wing MSM.
    Can’t you buy your wife a big book of crosswords? Lovatts has a free on-line daily cryptic, link below:
    
    https://lovattspuzzles.com/online-puzzles-competitions/daily-cryptic-crossword/
    
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    October 12, 2024 9:51am
    - Ghost
      
      Boycotting a business for advertising their products, are you by any chance a closet leftie?
      
      1 13
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      October 12, 2024 9:59am
      - Damocles11
        
        They can advertise their products via billboards, leaflets, mail-outs, on-line, sandwich boards….I don’t care, it’s when their money funds the left wing mainstream media that I have an issue with it. I’ll exercise my rights as a consumer in a free society and do my purchasing elsewhere.
        
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        October 12, 2024 12:52pm
    - MCōs
      
      If I boycotted Harvey Norman it wouldn’t make a jot of difference to their bottom line
      
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      October 12, 2024 7:46pm
      - T for Tim
        
        Same here. They are overpriced on a lot of product.
        
        1 0
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        October 12, 2024 8:01pm
Chuck Bird

This makes for interesting reading. The plus side of more CO2 is crops grow faster and bigger.

Ronald Stein, John Shanahan: Wind and solar cannot replace oil

https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/10/ronald-stein-john-shanahan-wind-and.html#more
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October 12, 2024 8:11am
- wsk12345
  
  It’s a shame it’s so badly written. The exact discussion I’d like to share with friends that are climate change zealots, but this rubbish sadly does not help with sharing the facts.
  
  Normally the pieces shared on this site are excellent.
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:31am
- cmm
  
  Yup, that’s basic biology known for a long time. It is the major reason why CO2 is pumped into greenhouses.
  
  The other big deal is greening of deserts.
  
  Plants open up pores called stomata to allow the CO2 in for photosynthesis. Unfortunately this also allows water out, so plants lose water.
  
  With higher CO2 concentrations, the plants can get the CO2 they need with less stomata open and less water loss. That means they can grow in more marginal areas with less water.
  
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  October 12, 2024 10:04am
  - AitchW
    
    That’s quite enough rational science thank you very much.
    The science is settled, CO2 is BAD.
    
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    October 12, 2024 11:09am
Cassandra

The argument for referendums: elections are a referendum but no policy announced before the election is guaranteed after it. If the issue is really important – say the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, to give a random example – then a process ending in a referendum would be sensible. There’s a case in point coming up in Moldova next week: to join the EU or not. Russia is pouring money in for the No campaign but the polls show + of 60% n favour. It’d be a good move. So would defining Waitangi’s principles.
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October 12, 2024 8:13am
- Colinxy
  
  The fundamental problem in NZ is the referendums are non-binding. We’ve repeatedly seen referendums ignored.
  
  So, while I sympathise with you, it’s a futile effort if the government doesn’t give a damn about the result.
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:19am
  - Cassandra
    
    The Act Bill incl that the referendum is binding.
    
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    October 12, 2024 10:42am
    - Colinxy
      
      It won’t be binding on any parties that ascribe to the Critical Theory of postcolonialism. The current Maori Party swallows that rot completely, the Green Party is probably all aligned with it and there are advocates within Labour too.
      
      So, whenever NZ wants the feelz again and elects for ruin again, that will be repealed. Unlike National, Labour has repeatedly shown willingness to repeal or annul laws that get in the way of their ideology.
      
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      October 12, 2024 1:04pm
- cmm
  
  Have a look at Switzerland. There many issues are put to binding referendum.
  That really is the way to have democracy; if political parties hold various positions, then let them put the policies to the people and the people can decide issue by issue.
  
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  October 12, 2024 10:06am
  - AitchW
    
    Then why bother with parties? Why not put everything to referendum?
    
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    October 12, 2024 11:37am
    - cmm
      
      That is a very interesting point. As I understand it (and I have never been to Switzerland) the parties still conduct normal MP business for some issues, but major issues are taken to the voters.
      
      In a democracy such as ours you need to select a single party (and generally that applies for your electoral vote too).
      
      This means you have to take a package deal.
      
      But what if I want, and I’m making this up, National’s education policy, Labour’s health policy and Act’s law and order policy? Who do I vote for now?
      
      Having many referendums on each major issues allows you to potentially navigate such issues.
      
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      October 12, 2024 12:30pm
  - MCōs
    
    California has multiple referendums
    I remember reading two were passed on one occasion that directly contradicted each other.
    Personally I’m no fan of referendums except on constitutional issues such as whether we should ditch the monarchy
    It’s too easy to sway opinions by bamboozle people with misleading slogans to explain complex issues as happened with Brexit
    
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    October 12, 2024 8:04pm
  - Ghost
    
    Binding referendum means nothing. Future governments here can change what ever people voted for
    
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    October 12, 2024 8:07pm
Bridgenag

Unregistered British Birds Flock Together –
Compliance or Jail

“In a novel protest movement, British citizens are now registering their frozen chickens, rubber duckies, stuffed birds, and they are even registering dogs and cats that “identify” as chickens.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/unregistered-british-birds-flock?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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October 12, 2024 8:13am
- David Garrett
  
  Bridge: Nice to know the Brits still enjoy ridiculing legal nonsense
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:27am
  - Biscuit
    
    David, I have been following with amusement the ‘Wagatha Christie’ case in England.
    
    One highly-paid footballer’s “Look at me! Look at me!’ wife got sued by another highly-paid footballer’s ‘Look at me! Look at me!’ wife.
    
    The suit was successful and the first highly-paid footballer’s wife has had to pay squillions in damages as well as some admittedly-eye-watering legal fees.
    
    But…
    
    The losing lady is now back in court – you can hear lawyers everywhere chortling – claiming that the winner’s lawyers’ bills are exorbitant.
    
    Apparently, gasp, they were staying in a top-of-the-range hotel!
    
    And, double gasp, they even used the mini-bar!
    
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    October 12, 2024 9:13am
    - MCōs
      
      I saw something about that the other day
      The British thing isn’t so much these two people fighting over their reputations it’s the unedifying spectacle of the British gutter press, which is just about all of them, beating it up.
      
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      October 12, 2024 9:27am
    - pdm
      
      To add a New Zealand perspective Biscuit.
      
      As you know mrspdm and I had a couple of nights at the previously highly regarded, top of the range Wairekei Hotel last weekend.
      
      There was no mini bar in our room or either of the other two occupied by family members.
      
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      October 12, 2024 12:30pm
      - Paulus
        
        Staffing problems we a were told – well it is the weekend in New Zealand which starts on Friday morning and may finish on Monday, some time.
        Who is going to work on the weekend in New Zealand ?
        
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        October 12, 2024 2:17pm
      - Biscuit
        
        The boss and I aren’t short of a penny or two, pdm, but it is a matter of pride for us that we have NEVER availed myself of a mini-bar in a hotel, heh heh.
        
        That ‘record’ will extend when we hit Sydney for The Everest this week.
        
        PS
        
        You’ll have watched a hack race called ‘The Livermol Classic’ just before. Boy, has New Zealand racing degenerated…
        
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        October 12, 2024 5:45pm
- Inandout
  
  Bridge, I read about this idiotic Labour law and immediately thought they were taking the piss; but not so. Little wonder Starmer is so unpopular, especially with Labour voters who feel abandoned. Prime Ministers everywhere should remember what they promised in elections cannot be ignored once in power. That is called lying, isn’t it?
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:33am
Cassandra

Countess Glenconner has announced that fish knives are naff. I doubt many Kiwibloggers use them (according to Milky Mike we all eat with our fingers anyway). This has prompted the Times etiquette expert to issue some additional guidance. I gather he had DG in mind but others may find it helpful.
1. No tie pins. You can use a safety pin if you have to.
2. Liquid soap, no matter how expensive, is naff.
3. Eating on the street or public transport. Back seat of a Roller is okay apparently.
4. Holding a knife like a pen.
5. Adding makeup on the street. Seated at a flash restaurant okay.
6. Prosecco instead of champagne
7. Varying gin & tonic from good gin eg Tanqueray,, plan tonic (the flash stuff is best), a slice of lemon, ice, in a heavy bottomed glass.
8. Personalised number plates.
9. Large, wall-mounted TVs.
10. Hot tubs
11. Trainers with business clothes.
12. Salted caramel.
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October 12, 2024 8:28am
- David Garrett
  
  Cass: I was brought up to never eat in the street – ice cream excepted.
  
  As for fish knives, I wouldn’t know one if I saw it. And I am with the guide on liquid soup- especially in the shower. A bar of palmolive Gold is my go to.
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:41am
  - G152
    
    Very clever fish if it can use a knife. Some may be cut up about this
    
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    October 12, 2024 8:52am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    A fish knife is shaped like a little spatula. It is solely designed for eating a whole fish. They are now mostly redundant because most folk prefer eating fish fillets.
    
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    October 12, 2024 9:15am
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      A long story for a Saturday. Fifty + years ago the Okoroire pub had an old fashioned table setting and menu. On the left was a fish fork, dining fork and dessert fork. On the right was a soup spoon, fish knife, dining knife and dessert spoon. The menu was soup, followed by a very small fillet of fish which came with a thin slice of lemon and some peas, followed by a main course then dessert.
      The game was “the person with largest number of peas with their fish” was to be shouted one drink by everybody else. Being a big crowd the winner ended up fly blown drunk.
      That game was brought to a stop when an alkie tipped the wait staff $10 (decent dough in those days) to get the most peas.
      
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      October 12, 2024 9:34am
      - David Garrett
        
        Tauhei: Ah yes, the traditional four course English lunch or dinner …a little before my time, but a frequent reference in Somerset Maugham stories…what an underrated writer that fellow was; a brilliant observer of human nature
        
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        October 12, 2024 10:03am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  For someone in her 90s, she’s on to it.
  
  Apart from eating pies in the street, but then, that’s a Kiwi thing. Local rules, and all that.
  
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  October 12, 2024 8:48am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Phone for the fish knives, Norman
  As cook is a little unnerved;
  You kiddies have crumpled the serviettes
  And I must have things daintily served.
  
  https://allpoetry.com/How-To-Get-On-In-Society
  
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  October 12, 2024 9:47am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  No one of any class uses a fish knife to eat. Two forks should be used.
  
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  October 12, 2024 9:56am
- Mike
  
  Civility, like table manners is dead.
  From Kiwiblog’s comments policy:
  
  Give other commenters the courtesy of referring to them by the name or alias they use on this blog.
  
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  October 12, 2024 4:05pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    As if you give a **** about respect on here Mike. Pull the other one.
    
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    October 12, 2024 6:45pm
Gravelroad

@Cass:
1. Take the safety pin out of ya ear for the tie. Put tie pin in ear.
3. When at secondary school years and years ago, eating in the street was punishable with a detention. Prefects were the watchdogs.
12. What’s wrong with salted caramel?
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October 12, 2024 8:40am
- Cassandra
  
  Don’t ask me. I like liquid soap. I’ll track down Countess Glenconner’s phone number if you like. 😇
  
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  October 12, 2024 9:17am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Ok. Will I phone her? Or will you?
    
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    October 12, 2024 9:35am
    - Cassandra
      
      I’ve done it. It’s because salting one’s caramel is one of those frightful American things. Marshmallow on mashed potato. Simply awful.
      
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      October 12, 2024 10:48am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        But it was a French pâtissier who introduced it.. Henri Le Roux
        
        https://chocolatleroux.com/en/histoire/
        
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        October 12, 2024 10:56am
- AitchW
  
  Gravelroad I attended a boarding school in the latter half of the 70s near a small provincial town. We would walk into town after school on town leave. If we dared eat in the street some of the town folk would ring the school and complain. It was a horsey town after all…..
  Same if our socks were down.
  
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  October 12, 2024 9:33am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Correct.
    Girls at the girls school also got detentions if they wore cardigans in the street on their way home. (Cardigans which were actually a part of the school uniform).
    
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    October 12, 2024 9:55am
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      The stasi among us – would have been the mask wearing enforcers during Covid mandates. Probably a high level of sadism in their makeup.
      
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      October 12, 2024 10:12am
      - AitchW
        
        And a deep resentment of private schools….
        
        4 1
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        October 12, 2024 11:11am
  - MCōs
    
    I boarded at St Bedes in the mid sixties
    Ventured outside the premises except for sport on Saturday was very rare
    Where are you going, boys?
    We’re off to a couple of gay bars, back about two, father, said nobody ever.
    
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    October 12, 2024 12:53pm
    - Biscuit
      
      Reminds me of a QI anecdote, MCōs:
      Back in the day, a railway station was proposed for some English school: Eton, I think.
      It was abandoned because, being so near to London, it was feared that the boys would pop into London for a spot of meeting up with ladies of the night.
      Bill Bailey referred to it as ‘the Prostitutes Express’, ha…
      
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      October 12, 2024 1:36pm
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        I think “a spot of meeting up” is preferable to “the rape of the fist”.
        
        2 1
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        October 12, 2024 3:13pm
- Flossie
  
  Salted caramel!🤮🤮🤮
  
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  October 12, 2024 10:37am
- Paulus
  
  As a very very mature person we decided to have a clearout to the Hospice Shop.
  I found some 18 ties in my closet, and we remeniced over them some particularly with meanings, like awards.
  A number were top class Europen ones which probably at the time cost a small fortune.
  I gave away two suits finally each bespoke tailored as that was the form in the days I worked around the world.
  We still have a wooden box of cutlery eight places with of course fish knives.
  Our children do not know, but they are going to get them one day, soon.
  
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  October 12, 2024 2:24pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Kamala can win.

https://babylonbee.com/news/experts-say-kamala-can-still-win-if-she-doesnt-appear-in-public-again-between-now-and-election-day
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October 12, 2024 8:44am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Kamala wants to help with hurricane relief.
DeSantis being a jerk!

https://babylonbee.com/news/what-a-jerk-kamala-harris-wants-to-help-with-hurricane-relief-but-ron-desantis-refuses-to-tell-her-where-florida-is
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October 12, 2024 8:46am
- cmm
  
  That is what Cindy would have done.
  
  Remember the time she said she had not phoned an Aussie to apologize because she didn’t have his number?
  
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  October 12, 2024 10:28am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Let’s not forget exactly what De Santas has said, he said he has been speaking with Biden daily and has offered him his person phone number as well, he said what does anything have to do with Harris, she is not the president, it is her trying to politicise the huraccanes
  
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  October 12, 2024 2:34pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

America’s Greatest Crisis: The Shortage No One Talks About.

https://patriotpowerednetwork.com/americas-greatest-crisis-the-shortage-no-one-talks-about/?
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October 12, 2024 8:56am
- David Garrett
  
  I reccomend that editorial to everyone – perhaps excepting Mike with many names. All that talk of “common sense” may well give him a conniption
  
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  October 12, 2024 9:10am
  - AitchW
    
    Is multiple personality Mike still about? Haven’t seen him for few days. The downticks continue unabated though….
    
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    October 12, 2024 9:58am
    - Bridgenag
      
      I miss Maggie Pie
      
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      October 12, 2024 1:37pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

What is wrong with Judge Helen McQueen??? Seriously, where was her thinking at in this case?

As the convict is unlikely to obey the sentence being appealed, Judge McQueen confirmed the conviction but discharged the punishment.

I confidently predict that the undoubtedly self-named Anahera Aotearoa, with 34 previous convictions, will offend again. When she does, perhaps this time injuring or killing someone, will Judge McQueen front up to her mistake? Or will she hide behind the depersonalised cloak of “Justice”?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350446135/woman-refused-give-blood-specimen-because-she-had-royal-blood
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October 12, 2024 8:58am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Royal blood my left tit.
  Bullshit artist.
  
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  October 12, 2024 11:07am
  - Jethrod
    
    Talking of Royal blood, has anyone seen the Queen’s 2 brothers since before her elevation to that position?
    
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    October 12, 2024 11:36am
    - Flossie
      
      “The Queen” is currently Camilla, wife of King Charles III.
      
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      October 12, 2024 12:34pm
    - Mike
      
      The Queen has one sister and one brother.
      
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      October 12, 2024 4:24pm
      - Ghost
        
        Kuini Nga wai hono i te po has two brothers
        
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        October 12, 2024 4:30pm
      - Mike
        
        It occurs to me that we probably all have ‘royal blood’ of some sort. For example, it is thought to be nearly impossible for anyone with an English ancestor not to be a Plantagenet descendant.
        
        2 1
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        October 12, 2024 5:38pm
      - Manu-Rau
        
        Actually, the Maori Queen’s oldest brother is gay, which was one of the issues that caused him to be passed over in favour of his sister.
        
        Maybe that’s what Mike was referring to – albeit in a most un-Mike-like way.
        
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        October 13, 2024 8:28am
      - Ghost
        
        No, he is not gay. His father was not happy with the woman that he married.
        
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        October 13, 2024 9:31am
    - Jethrod
      
      The queen I was referring to is the one Ghost refers to
      
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      October 12, 2024 8:12pm
Bridgenag

Friday Funnies: An Instruction Manual
Saving democracy one small step at a time

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/friday-funnies-an-instruction-manual?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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October 12, 2024 9:09am
NeverMindTheBollocks

No one does hypocrisy like the Left.

When Nicola Willis commented in 2021 that central Wellington at night felt unsafe, she was excoriated by the Left.

Now, new Green MP & former WCC councillor Tamatha Paul says the same thing.

Crickets.

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/530540/more-needs-to-be-done-to-ensure-safety-on-wellington-streets-mp
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October 12, 2024 9:18am
Maggy Wassilieff

Green MP Tamatha Paul finally realises the streets of Central Wellington are not safe at night.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/530540/more-needs-to-be-done-to-ensure-safety-on-wellington-streets-mp

Such a pity she didn’t throw her support behind Nicola Willis 3 years ago…

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nicola-willis-challenges-mps-to-walk-the-streets-of-wellington-to-see-if-they-feel-safe/KHMML267663YPEAVROKRNUUTZ4/
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October 12, 2024 9:19am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Snap!
  
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  October 12, 2024 9:27am
- Biscuit
  
  Maggy, I was in Wellington yesterday for the NPC Semifinal (Spoiler alert: Wellington won!) and did my usual stroll through various of the city streets.
  
  Several of those streets looked decidedly dodgy in the DAYtime.
  
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  October 12, 2024 9:29am
  - AitchW
    
    Courtney Place feels very seedy in daylight.
    
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    October 12, 2024 9:38am
  - artemisia
    
    If you think Wellington CBD is bad wait till the cruise ship season starts. That would be tomorrow. Beggars out in full force. Mostly polite, but a very poor look for the city all the same.
    
    Fortunately Wellington City Council has forestalled this particular proliferation by spending tens of thousands to paste QR codes on lamp posts so beggars can stay home while kind folk donate through their phone. Oh wait, didn’t work. Was pulled after a few weeks. Suppose that was better than leaving the QR codes up and flapping in the wind. An actual decision was made.
    
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    October 12, 2024 9:51am
  - AitchW
    
    Biscuit I do hope that there was a space in the rack at the stadium for your bike.
    
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    October 12, 2024 11:13am
    - nathie
      
      Jeepers please don’t give Tory some fresh new idea$ !
      
      3 2
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      October 12, 2024 2:47pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  She hasn’t realised anything Maggy. It’s just showboating to falsely appear that she has any interest at all. She’s probably more interested in, I don’t know, claiming a benefit when she shouldn’t, employing people on lower than minimum wage with bad conditions, bullying people, attempting to intimidate an MP in the House, swearing in House, getting boozed up, eating and not paying or shoplifting.
  
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  October 12, 2024 4:16pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  And on that note, did her parents make a typo?
  
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  October 12, 2024 4:17pm
Jack5

The mental service is in near-crisis, especially in acute services, and the Minister of Mental Health, Matt Doocey, has his own solution.

Gabi Lardies, writing in the Spinoff, says Doocey has allocated a million dollars to train “peer support specialists” to work in emergency departments around the country. These will be in a new role: assistant psychologist.

Doocey is reported as saying around 400 people graduate with a psychology degree, but don’t get one of the 50 clinical internship placements. They then “disappear from the field”.

Doocey has a million dollars for training his peer-support psychologists. The Government hasn’t allocated money for increasing psychiatric and clinical psychology registrars (specialist trainees).

Doocey has a lot riding on the success of his approach.

The shortage of psychiatrists and clinical psychologists is acute. Vacancy rates for both professions are around 20 per cent, and one in five psychiatrists is over 65.

Doocey’s background in the controversial and now closed Tavistock centre in the UK and his views on transgenderism will bring the mob down upon him if his bold idea of assistant psychologists fails.

Lardies’s article in the Spinoff:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/07-10-2024/prison-or-nothing-the-self-perpetuating-downward-spiral-in-new-zealands-mental-health-system
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October 12, 2024 9:28am
- cmm
  
  “around 400 people graduate with a psychology degree,”
  
  Yes, but graduating is only half way there.
  
  To actually practice you need some post grad qualification. I would expect a Masters at least.
  
  Many just give up after their B degree and join the stream of basket-weaving degree holders in government jobs, HR etc.
  
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  October 12, 2024 10:32am
  - artemisia
    
    Common these days for certain specified activities to be carried out by those with less than full credentials. Pharmacists, nurses, even plumbers with a restricted electrical licence. Parameters are set and training required.
    
    Should work for psych graduates, cheap and fast to implement and some will progress to full creds. Why not try it and see.
    
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    October 12, 2024 10:44am
  - rouppe
    
    Maybe they’re of the crowd that think that since they have a psychology degree, they know what the rest of us need, and get into government jobs to give effect to their superior knowledge.
    
    Never mind actually finding out what we want.
    
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    October 12, 2024 11:30am
  - ChristopherW2
    
    In fairness, a good Psychology degree involves a lot of statistics and report-writing, so is a good generalist degree.
    
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    October 12, 2024 12:28pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Many psychologists are nuts (to varying degrees) themselves. A few are very good. Shop around at will, as they charge bigly.
    
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    October 12, 2024 6:47pm
- Don Beckett
  
  Doocey is a Goosey.
  
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  October 12, 2024 10:43am
- Burtland
  
  psychologists used to be something we only encountered on american sitcom comedies – now its become the great malaise.
  
  psychologists/psychiatrists are now celebrities and influencers – the mentally diverse used for cheap tv entertainment – ADHD seems awfully popular along with medical intervention of sexual dysphoria – its a growth industry
  
  what happened ?
  
  https://www.who.int/news/item/02-03-2022-covid-19-pandemic-triggers-25-increase-in-prevalence-of-anxiety-and-depression-worldwide
  
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  October 12, 2024 1:23pm
Gravelroad

Was “cold called” last evening and asked to take part in an on-line survey about “the media”.
Has anyone else been approached?
Usual enticements about $20 voucher given and name goes in draw for other cash and prizes etc, etc.
Being an on-line survey, I was asked for my email address – which I did not supply.

Distraught neighbour (older person living alone) in town was recently defrauded of $19,000 in a scam which was both phone and computer “managed”, at the same time by two people.
They seem to have completely overwhelmed the target into giving them this money.
And she didn’t seem to know how it happened.
Gave them her email address though.
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October 12, 2024 9:29am
- cmm
  
  Rule #1: Don’t give out any info to anyone. Don’t even talk to them.
  
  Your email address is a very low bar security concern. Guaranteed the bad guys already have that.
  
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  October 12, 2024 10:34am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Have an alternative email address just for that. Give it to them, but never reply to anything or anyone.
    
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    October 12, 2024 11:21am
- rouppe
  
  Not been cold called in decades
  
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  October 12, 2024 11:32am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Being in the farming department, we often get cold called by people saying they are doing surveys about bank lending or insurance needs, success of animal remedies etc.
    They are always phone only.
    Lot of people in rural still have landline phones – the availability of which is now under serious threat.
    
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    October 12, 2024 11:57am
    - Jack5
      
      The decline in landlines must be making it hard for pollsters randomly to people to quiz.
      
      The loss of White Page information that goes with the change makes it harder to track distant old friends.
      
      And cellphone numbers have so many digits – typically 10 with the phone provider’s number.
      
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      October 12, 2024 1:54pm
Yvette

The most useful removal of the “Treaty and its Principles” from New Zealand legislation would be to remove it from ACT’s yet-unseen proposed bill –

Since there is no way of resolving the impasse of the mistranslations of the Treaty, even in reference to the 1835 Declaration of Maori Independence before it, the removal of references to the Treaty and Principles in all legislation that does not require it, should have applied to the rights put forward in ACT’s proposed legislation.

Without mention of the Treaty, would Luxon agree to a law that states his Government has the right to govern?
That all New Zealanders have equal rights and responsibilities? And all rights in respect of legally owned property?

To also rule Government is secular would be helpful, and does not prevent religiously orientated New Zealanders from practice in private, in groups or promoting the beliefs or lobbying on behalf of them in any normal legal way – just that we don’t have anyone’s religious world view inflicted on us all.
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October 12, 2024 9:46am
- Ghost
  
  Here’s the collation agreement between nz first and national
  
  Agreement
  
  Equal qtizenship
  • The Coalition Government will defend the principle that New Zealanders are equal before the law,
  with the same rights and obligations, and with the guarantee of the privileges and responsibilities of
  equal citizenship in New Zealand.
  
  • The Coalition Government will work to improve outcomes for all ew Zealanders, and will not
  advance policies that seek to ascribe different rights and responsibilities to New Zealanders on the
  basis of their race or ancestry.
  
  • The Coalition Government will honour the undertakings made by the Crown through past Treaty of
  Waitangi settlements.
  
  • The Coalition Government will reverse measures taken in recent years which have eroded the principle
  of equal citizenship, specifically we will:
  
  o Remove co-governance from the delivery of public services.
  o As a matter of urgency, issue a Cabinet Office circular to all central government
  organisations that it is the Government’s expectation that public services should be
  prioritised on the basis of need, not race.
  o Restore the right to local referendum on the establishment or ongoing use of Maori wards,
  including requiring a referendum on any wards established without referendum at the next
  Local Body elections.
  o Stop all work on He Puapua
  o Confirm that the Coalition Government does not recognise the United ations Declaration
  on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP) as having any binding legal effect on New
  Zealand.
  o Amend section 58 of the Marine and Coastal Area Act to make clear Parliament’s original
  intent, in light of the judgment of the Court of Appeal in Whakatohea Kotahitanga Waka
  (Edwards) & Ors v Te Kahui and Whakatohea Maori Trust Board & Ors [2023] NZCA 504.
  o Amend the Waitangi Tribunal legislation to refocus the scope, purpose, and nature of its
  inquiries back to the original intent of that legislation.
  o Conduct a comprehensive review of all legislation (except when it is related to, or
  substantive to, existing full and final Treaty settlements) that includes ‘The Principles of
  the Treaty of Waitangi” and replace all such references with specific words relating to the
  relevance and application of the Treaty, or repeal the references.
  
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  October 12, 2024 9:55am
  - Yvette
    
    Ghost, I would contend that if they passed points one and two –
    
    • The Coalition Government will defend the principle that New Zealanders are equal before the law, with the same rights and obligations, and with the guarantee of the privileges and responsibilities of equal citizenship in New Zealand.
    
    • The Coalition Government will work to improve outcomes for all ew Zealanders, and will not advance policies that seek to ascribe different rights and responsibilities to New Zealanders on the basis of their race or ancestry.
    
    – using four as raison d’etre –
    
    • The Coalition Government will reverse measures taken in recent years which have eroded the principle of equal citizenship
    
    – to pass the above, then come back and eliminate the rest as being inconsistent with what they have passed.
    
    Plus making “Government secular” to remove all references to te Ao Maori – the Maori religious worldview, which they may practice as they wish, just not through Government and its services so on us all as default á la Aryanism.
    
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    October 12, 2024 10:30am
  - Mod88
    
    So Goldsmith has reneged already by leaving the recent Coastal Claims in force when it gets reversed back to the 2011 legislation but in reality needs taking back to the Clark Govt ruling that the NZ Coastline/Territorial limit is Crown/Public owned. The one thing I respect Helen Clark for. Make no mistake after the Coastline, Iwi will be after the NZ Conservation Estate.
    
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    October 12, 2024 10:47am
- Quail
  
  Groundswell has real problems in Gore with their Council promoting ethnic ( indigenous) privilege rules in their Environment Plan,
  There is relief for the built environment with fast track legislation etc but there is none for those living in the natural environment.
  For the sake of all NZ Mr Luxon please listen to rural NZ as well as your urban mates and have the same laws for all!
  
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  October 12, 2024 10:21am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Luxon will know of this bullshit, what the council is suggesting has nothing to do with them as far as I can see, when did government pass the SNA legislation? They didn’t did they, Labour were dumped and it never happened, good luck for the pathetic hire council trying to get away with that shit
    
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    October 12, 2024 2:40pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Per RNZ,[Mod – use correct names] is lined up to receive her damehood directly from Prince William. It’s taken so long because she’s been too busy, or some such. Nothing about whether receiving it in front of New Zealanders might give a few citizens the opportunity to express how they really feel about the monumental clusterfuck that was her government.

And of course, she’s accepting only because people made her or some bollocks. No word of where she’s tucked her socialist principles.

Vomit inducing
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October 12, 2024 9:48am
- AitchW
  
  Dear Dame Jacinda doesn’t consort with common folk any more, it might interfere with her mission to save us from ourselves. And someone may say something less than adoring about how kind she is.
  Worst Prime Minister of the worst government ever.
  
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  October 12, 2024 11:18am
  - Paulus
    
    Is she coming back to New Zealand as expected to a family Christmas in the Tairua Bach ?
    None of the shops there will serve her either, as before I would expect.
    
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    October 12, 2024 2:34pm
- Close Hen Counters
  
  I read that too and am seething with rage – a gong for royally fucking up NZ ….
  
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  October 12, 2024 11:56am
- greybeard
  
  Prince William: I dub thee Dame Jacinda Ardern
  Ardern: Thanks Comrade !
  
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  October 12, 2024 12:10pm
  - Conservatarian
    
    Ardern: Thanks Comrade, now please tell me what “dub thee” means?
    
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    October 12, 2024 12:57pm
- Burtland
  
  what a stuckup dame shes turned out to be
  
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  October 12, 2024 12:30pm
- Taieri
  
  is lined up to receive her damehood directly from Prince William.
  ———-
  
  Why is she being referred to as “Dame” then? Until the formal investiture she’s just a Comrade Ardern or a plain Mrs Clarke for the more traditional, isn’t she?
  
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  October 12, 2024 1:48pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    No.
    
    “An honour takes effect from the date of announcement of an honours list….”
    
    https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/our-programmes/new-zealand-royal-honours/new-zealand-royal-honours-faqs
    
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    October 12, 2024 3:16pm
- nathie
  
  She ain’t no dame!
  
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  October 12, 2024 2:44pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  She is registered with (at least) three high end agents in the northern hemisphere who arrange speaking engagements.
  
  https://www.speakersassociates.com/speaker/jacinda-ardern/
  
  https://www.caa.com/caaspeakers/the-rt-hon-dame-jacinda-ardern
  
  https://www.celebritytalent.net/sampletalent/31035/jacinda-ardern/
  
  There is speculation that her standard fee is $US 200,000 for a speech.
  
  I can’t see her coming back to New Zealand in the medium term. She will at least want to shake that money tree for all it is worth.
  
  It is extraordinary. However you have to remember that there is a very deep, very woke, very rich sector of United States society, and to a lesser extent in the UK and Canada. It is quite realistic that rich woke folk in Vermont, NYC, and California would pay $US 500 a ticket to hear her speak. x 500 attendees that is $250,000.
  
  She is 44 years old. If she can keep the gigs going until she is 50, she will be set up for the rest of her life.
  
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  October 12, 2024 3:13pm
  - Geothermal
    
    She has impressive form delivering messages deep in the minds of some … so deep and effective the subject doesn’t even realise they have been captivated . You know the subject I’m alluding too . I can see how far it’s taken you from your otherwise balanced and informative comments on other matters
    
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    October 12, 2024 7:09pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

RNZ hits a new low. One of Saturday Morning’s hosts is interviewing the other Saturday Morning hosts. It’s a puff piece for Susie’s new book.

Conflict of interest, anyone?
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October 12, 2024 9:51am
kglm

The Wellington City Council voted 9-7 not to sell its 34% holding in Wellington Airport. That shareholding has a value of about $2.6 billion. I presume those voting not to sell consider the asset as “strategic” (even though it cant be picked up and taken elsewhere). I would frame the issue differently. If the WCC had $2.6 billion available in cash should it spend the money buying a non-controlling share in an airport? Those voting not to sell should logically be prepared to spend $2.6 billion to buy the asset if it wasn’t already owned.
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October 12, 2024 10:24am
- rouppe
  
  They would be better off having an equivalent dollar value shareholding in Infratil rather than in just the airport, a minor component of Infratil’s portfolio.
  
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  October 12, 2024 11:36am
- Swifty
  
  I read the value of WCC’s holding in the airport was variously between $400 and $600 million.
  
  Where did you get $2.6 Billion from?
  
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  October 12, 2024 11:50am
  - Quail
    
    Who trusts the WCC ?
    They will fritter it all away anyway.
    
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    October 12, 2024 9:31pm
Its only I

“Yes they can control the weather. It’s ridiculous for anyone to lie and say it can’t be done,”- Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s (R-Ga.)

So Dems are attacking Rep states with air in a hurry…who are they?

Are the Dem “they” team the same people that control space lasers?

I hope Trump wins this thing and puts MTG in some role that directs the US science community… Miller, immigration, J6 insurrectionists should run the FBI. MAGA Mike rewrite the school curriculum.

The MAGA world is fascinating, dangerous but fascinating.
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October 12, 2024 10:31am
- Mike
  
  MTG won’t be a cabinet-level appointment. Perhaps director of the bureau of prisons, forcing all inmates to take up Cross Fit.
  
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  October 12, 2024 1:57pm
  - Its only I
    
    That is a genuine shame Mike.
    Some of the comedic value of a MAGA administration is lost if the mighty roided out MTG is not in the clown car.
    
    When project 2025 removes the weather service, MTG is the obvious choice to head the new weather sharpies and nuke the hurricanes department.
    2025 also calls for the end of FEMA and all disaster relief funds so the pressure on the sharpies weather redirection tools and accurately nuking the hurricanes will be intense… and rather vital for Trump to keep his promise of woman’s safety.
    Either way, with no FEMA, disaster funding or hurricane warning system, women certainty wont be worrying about bodily autonomy as Trumpy promised.
    
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    October 12, 2024 5:21pm
surfing

I feel for this guy , he should not be persecuted out of his profession.

As a doctor he should have disclosed his vaccination status to patients, but not doing so was only a minor breach in my view. The vaccine itself was not great at preventing transmission anyway.

I thought the cruel and nasty days of Jacinda Ardern were over, but, some lingering clowns persist…

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/napier-doctor-phil-macdonald-pivots-to-it-after-losing-practice-over-covid-vaccine-mandate-stand/OVUL6WYNVVBWTFW2WWU35QONQM/
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October 12, 2024 10:42am
- Biscuit
  
  That doctor will be delighted – I think ‘delighted’ is the word – that Jacinda gets knighted by Prince William at Windsor Castle this weekend…
  
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  October 12, 2024 11:27am
  - Mike
    
    Damed?
    
    3 3
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    October 12, 2024 1:58pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Damned
      
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      October 12, 2024 4:42pm
- rouppe
  
  Why are GP’s being hounded when thousands of hospital staff obtained dispensation from being required to take the vaccine?
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/133116645/how-103-covid-vaccine-exemptions-covered-11000-healthcare-workers
  
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  October 12, 2024 11:40am
  - Ghost
    
    The 11,000 figure is wrong, the exemptions lasted up to 8 weeks while the staff member was getting their vaccinations
    
    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/new-zealands-11000-vaccine-exempt-were-health-staff-not-elites-2024-01-12/
    
    Misleading. Temporary vaccine exemptions covering 8,051 workers (previously incorrectly reported by New Zealand’s public health agency as 11,005) applied only to health and disability sector workers so services could continue while they completed mandatory courses of COVID-19 vaccination.
    
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    October 12, 2024 11:46am
    - wsk12345
      
      Well 400 focs at CDHB got permanent exemptions on the basis that as a bloc, the hospital could not operate without them. I doubt they were the only ones.
      
      You may have bern treated by one! Shocked that their patients survived the horror.
      
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      October 12, 2024 8:41pm
      - Ghost
        
        I know staff, nurses and a doctor at Christchurch hospital who were not offered an exemption, who lost their jobs. Who have turned down all offers to go back there when the mandates were removed.
        
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        October 12, 2024 9:03pm
      - wsk12345
        
        Nobody was “offered” one. But a large bloc said they would leave if not given and they got.
        
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        October 13, 2024 8:53am
cmm

An interesting article: did Sandy Irvine conquer Everest first?

I would argue that to “conquer” Everest means more than just getting to the top. It also requires surviving the trip down and living to tell others about it.

If you died on the way down, clearly the mountain conquered you.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/discovery-of-climber-andrew-sandy-irvines-boot-could-solve-mystery-of-who-conquered-everest-first/WWRXRO4RNNDK3LTOIXKKL7IXRY/
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October 12, 2024 10:46am
- David Garrett
  
  cmm: I remember Sir Ed being interviewed 25 years ago when Mallory’s body was found – he made the exact same point: getting to the top is only half the job…And as anyone who has ever climbed a tree will know – getting down can be a lot harder than getting up.
  
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  October 12, 2024 12:05pm
- Burtland
  
  seems to be lingering animosity towards Sir Ed
  – the Americas Cup could get interesting
  
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  October 12, 2024 12:45pm
  - AitchW
    
    There is a certain sector of English (yes, I mean English, not British) society who still see us as provincial colonials. They don’t like it when we stick it up them. Sir Ben appears not to be one of those having sailed with and against NZ sailors many a time.
    
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    October 12, 2024 2:21pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  The project to demoralise the country and get rid of old ways. Straight out of the Maoist/Soviet handbook.
  
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  October 12, 2024 6:54pm
Chuck Bird

Not premium. This makes sense to me.

Missing Marokopa family: Former SAS tracker says soldiers could find Tom Phillips within two weeks

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/missing-marokopa-family-former-sas-tracker-says-soldiers-could-find-tom-phillips-within-two-weeks/S2WCKEVAA5EU5ITPQPUNHYTLZU/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=nzh_fb&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1728673994
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October 12, 2024 11:01am
- cmm
  
  I expect they could even without SAS tracking etc. Just form a sweep line of 1000+ soldiers and put up observation posts and walk through areas.
  
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  October 12, 2024 12:34pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    That would be very costly.
    
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    October 12, 2024 1:50pm
  - AitchW
    
    Cmm not to mention pointless if they were staying with family at the time!
    
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    October 12, 2024 2:22pm
- Manu-Rau
  
  Sorry, but the NZ Army can’t be used against its fellow citizens. Presumably you would complain if they were used against you in some way.
  
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  October 13, 2024 8:37am
Chuck Bird

If Muslim-majority countries do not want them then why should we in the West?

Why Won’t Egypt Accept Palestinian Refugees?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6MQnHfnoFc
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October 12, 2024 11:19am
- cmm
  
  Not only are the majority of Egyptians and Palestinians both Muslims, they are even the right flavour: Sunni.
  
  Iran at least has the excuse that they are Shia and they don’t want Sunnis.
  
  But why take them?
  
  Those woke idiots in the West will take them and that helps in rolling out the Islamic caliphate. Taking more Muslims into Egypt does not help expand the Islamic Empire.
  
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  October 12, 2024 12:38pm
  - Taieri
    
    But why take them?
    ———-
    
    Because they are us!
    
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    October 12, 2024 1:44pm
Chuck Bird

Scroll to 29 min for a mock debate between Trump and Harris with comedians. It is hilarious.

Gutfeld! 10/10/24 Greg Gutfeld FULL END SHOW | BREAKING NEWS TRUMP TODAY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEPKgmnnRuA
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October 12, 2024 11:39am
NothingLeft

A massive UK study involving 1.7 million kids has found that heart damage, specifically myocarditis and pericarditis, only occurred in children who received COVID mRNA vaccines.

According to the study, “Zero cases of myocarditis or pericarditis were found in the unvaccinated group.”

The study, led by Oxford University’s Professor Colm D Andrews., was released as a preprint in the MedRxiv journal.

The researchers confirmed that, despite widespread vaccination efforts, “the virus did not put children at risk of death or the need for emergency care, hospitalization, or critical care.”

The study found that COVID-19 vaccines offered little long-term protection, as many children caught the virus just 14 to 15 weeks after getting the shot.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/380846865_OpenSAFELY_Effectiveness_of_COVID-19_vaccination_in_children_and_adolescents
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October 12, 2024 11:40am
- Greenheart
  
  You really should be careful rather than alarmist when quoting from a research paper. The cases of myocarditis and pericarditis were mild and were re orded in 27 cases per million after the first vac ination and 10 cases per million after the second vaccination. Hardly anything to be concerned aboit.
  
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  October 12, 2024 1:45pm
  - wsk12345
    
    A lot to be concerned about if you’re the unlucky one
    
    It’s not mild either -they two guys I know that got myocarditis after the vaccine were both fucked for over a year.
    
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    October 12, 2024 8:44pm
Jack5

Ireland’s on the point of a demographic explosion, warns an article in the Telegraph.

Michael Murphy writes:

” … in just one year, its population surged by more than 180,000, a 3.5 per cent increase in a nation of just over five million. This was the highest growth rate in Europe in 2023 (Britain grew by one per cent) and represents one of the most dramatic spikes in modern history.”

How does NZ compare?

From Stats NZ population estimates, our population rose 3.116 per cent over the 2023 calendar year. That was after the Labour Government’s immigration surge.

The Irish Republic and NZ have similar size populations, of over 5 million.

Murphy writes that (economic) benefits of immigration are short-lived.

“Reliance on migration creates a cycle: as migrants age, more will be needed to fill the gaps, leading to ever-rising costs for housing, welfare, and healthcare. These costs often dwarf the contributions made, especially by low-or medium-skilled workers.”

He argues that a greater cost is the “dilution of Irish culture” and creation of a multicultural society.
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October 12, 2024 12:58pm
- Mike
  
  Forget the ‘dilution of culture’ – that’s simple xenophobia.
  The economic argument for immigration looks fondly on the great waves of European colonization, ‘huddled masses’ etc, and ignore the costs countries like Ireland and NZ face through pretending GDP growth matters above overall quality of life.
  
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  October 12, 2024 2:05pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Only xenophobic according to the juvenile far left. To them every culture is precious and needs preserving, except their own! Many are just childish youth and will some day be mugged by reality and grow up. Some sadly are aged kidults still desperately seeking acceptance from the cool kids.Those ones are usually childless and enjoying the wealth earned by others.
    
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    October 12, 2024 6:13pm
- greybeard
  
  I certainly agree with the last sentence: in NZ any reference to “NZ culture” is always assumed to be maori-focussed, our European heritage hardly gets mentioned these days and most of our immigrants are Asian.
  
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  October 12, 2024 2:48pm
- MCōs
  
  I’m not familiar with the situation in Ireland, our family having broken off our connections with what was then a Godforsaken country 160yrs ago when my great grandfather immigrated out here.
  Around a million people left Ireland for elsewhere around the same time and big numbers have continued to leave even since
  It’s a bit ironic the chap should be complaining about people moving the other way.
  
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  October 12, 2024 2:56pm
  - Mike
    
    Like English whinging about England being colonized by brown people.
    
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    October 12, 2024 3:18pm
    - Conservatarian
      
      Never mind the stabbing and the raping eh Mike? It must be a fair price to pay for some diversity.
      
      10 3
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      October 12, 2024 3:55pm
      - Mike
        
        You’re right, the English were well-known for stabbing and raping their way to world power status.
        
        1 11
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        October 12, 2024 4:30pm
      - Conservatarian
        
        So the current wave of stabbing and raping is just revenge then is it?
        
        6 2
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        October 12, 2024 5:10pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Ireland seems to have the same kind of schizophrenic cultural mess as NZ. We often hear of the miracle Irish economy while at the same time witnessing droves of Irish trades people heading to settle in Australia and the like.
    
    The remaining Irish have every right to resist unmandated mass immigration being foisted on them by a self righteous minority (of far left plonkers).
    
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    October 12, 2024 6:17pm
Surely Knott

Eye surgeon with meth addiction …..no problem. Eye surgeon who doesn’t want to take an experimental mRNA treatment that doesn’t stop transmission loses practicing certificate. Government needs to apologise, compensate and give them their jobs back. And slap some restraint on this industry bodies enforcing authoritarian ideology from mandatory race principles training to forced mRNA.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/napier-doctor-phil-macdonald-pivots-to-it-after-losing-practice-over-covid-vaccine-mandate-stand/OVUL6WYNVVBWTFW2WWU35QONQM/
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October 12, 2024 1:56pm
- Mike
  
  You think the eye surgeon will face no professional consequences for criminal offending?
  
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  October 12, 2024 4:01pm
Conservatarian

The Democrats have launched a “man focused media blitz” in order to convince non-soy males to vote for them.

So Barry the Kenyan, America’s first gay president, is scolding black men and asking them to ignore how shit the Harris Administration (Jan 2021- present) is, in order to vote for a woman who has vaguely the same skin colour as them but who will just give them more of the same shit.

Tampon Tim Walz is now back to highlighting his past as an assistant high school football coach in small town Minnesota, instead of his deep and abiding love of CCP-occupied China and pretending he was protesting at Tiananmen Square.

Harris sipped on a beer, without actively gagging, on a late night TV show hosted by former comedian and current leftist propagandist Stephen Colbert (who has shilled for Ardern in the past). That is, when the “highly respected” 60 Minutes is not editing out the worst portions of her disastrous interview during which they made the egregious mistake of asking her a simple question.

This is going just fine for them.
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October 12, 2024 2:07pm
- Mike
  
  Meanwhile, assorted cranks think ‘they’ direct hurricanes towards red states, Florida’s authorities are threatening the free speech of pro-choice advocates, and republican candidates tell native Americans to ‘go home’ or write that ‘the bad guys won in WWII.’
  
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  October 12, 2024 4:00pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  “The Democrats have launched a “man focused media blitz” in order to convince non-soy males to vote for them. ”
  
  They have no chance. They are desperate.
  
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  October 12, 2024 7:01pm
rouppe

“immigration consultant”, breaks the law, tries to avoid jail because he’s fat.

Also defrauded acc.

I don’t believe he didn’t spend more of the money on himself.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/overweight-fraudster-romney-lavea-jailed-again-this-time-for-unsanctioned-immigration-work/DG33UENGBNFXVALHFO6GOLJGLE/
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October 12, 2024 3:10pm
rouppe

Wahine Māori aims to be the first to summit Everest

Beckman did a beginners course, then she climbed Tititea/Mt Aspiring (3033m), guided by Bradey while documenting their journey in a four-part series – Te Ara.
…
On Tuesday Beckman departs for Nepal to climb three Himalayan peaks: Lobuche East (6145m), Island Peak (6189m) and Mera Peak (6476m) with local guides. But this time, Bradey will not be with her.

It will also be her first time climbing peaks over Mt Aspiring’s 3033m.

Good on her for having the goal, but there is a huge difference between 3033m and 6500m let alone 8850m.

Back in 2017 I trekked to Everest Base Camp (5364m) with a maximum altitude going over Cho La Pass (5420m).

It’s tough. And we didn’t even carry much of anything. One of our group had to quit from altitude sickness. Maybe it was harder as I was 18 months on from a collapsed lung injury, but going from 3033m to 6000m+ is a jump.

Any why the importance of being Maori? Should we have a special recognition of women from every nation?

Good luck anyway…
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October 12, 2024 3:58pm
- Mike
  
  Over 6,000 people have climbed Everest. Only 300 or so have died climbing it.
  Not really anything special, is it? Needs a gimmick: be the first person to do it wearing jandals.
  
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  October 12, 2024 4:36pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Apparently in the climbing season there is now a QUEUE to get to the top!!!
    
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    October 12, 2024 6:22pm
  - rouppe
    
    Which is an about 50% success rate.
    
    Glad you agree the first Wahine Maori thing is a gimmick
    
    3 2
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    October 12, 2024 8:07pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Chomolungma/ Everest is the Tibetan Goddess Mother of Mountains.
  
  I thought Maori folk weren’t keen on standing on mountain summits.
  
  https://www.wildernessmag.co.nz/why-summits-are-sacred/
  
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  October 12, 2024 5:39pm
  - Mike
    
    #notallmaorifityourstereotype
    
    2 9
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    October 12, 2024 7:03pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Whew… that’s a relief.
      
      https://www.mbie.govt.nz/business-and-employment/economic-development/just-transition/just-transitions-guide/foundations/principles-from-te-ao-maori-the-maori-worldview#:~:text=Te%20ao%20M%C4%81ori%20emphasises%20the,and%20lore%20and%20m%C4%81tauranga%20knowledge.
      
      2 2
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      October 12, 2024 7:18pm
      - Mike
        
        It’s always good to hear from a fan of MBIE – Steven Joyce’s gift to NZ science.
        
        2 3
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        October 12, 2024 7:32pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  How TF is her racial heritage relevant????
  
  4 1
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  October 12, 2024 6:21pm
- greybeard
  
  I have often wondered about the clothing NZ maori wore when (a) living in the bloody cold Central Plateau and (b) all of the South Island and (c) when they apparently roamed offshore to the south of Invercargill to “explore” the distant islands.
  How they “knew” that those distant islands existed is food for another discussion.
  
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  October 12, 2024 7:03pm
  - Mike
    
    greybeard apparently believes all oceanic exploration required advance knowledge of what would be discovered.
    
    3 6
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    October 12, 2024 7:06pm
    - rouppe
      
      But oceanic exploration required you to be able to fix your position, latitude and longitude.
      
      For that you needed tools and knowledge Maori didn’t have.
      
      3 1
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      October 12, 2024 8:19pm
      - Mike
        
        Incorrect.
        
        0 0
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        October 13, 2024 7:59am
  - MCōs
    
    Races of people have survived and prospered around the world in far harsher conditions than anything in NZ
    
    4 1
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    October 12, 2024 8:27pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The last Election?
Elon Musk’s recent “aggressive” insertion into the US presidential race.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/california-rejects-further-spacex-rocket-launches-after-musk-s-aggressive-presidential-race-involvement/ar-AA1s7slF?
2 4
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October 12, 2024 5:24pm
- Mike
  
  Elmo is excited:
  https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/elon-musk-jumping-on-stage-memes-trump-rally-video-b2624841.html
  
  1 5
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  October 12, 2024 5:32pm
NZer In Exile

It’s OK to be a racist POS in NZ, as long as you are from NZ’s supposed master race. With full loony-left approval to boot.
7 2
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October 12, 2024 5:49pm
Taieri

When a university becomes a circus:

“The Bachelor of Circus Arts degree aims to produce graduates with a broad body of knowledge and skills through immersive and experiential practice-based studies in contemporary circus arts. The program provides preparation for further learning and regular opportunities for performance in diverse contexts, to allow students to develop an understanding of the ecology of the wider performing arts industry and their place within. Units in critical studies together with real world learning experiences ensure that students acquire self-discipline, teamwork, advanced communication skills, critical and evaluative skills, resilience and are industry-ready. The Bachelor of Circus Arts is designed to educate, develop and nurture highly skilled contemporary circus artists who can work as independent artists or as members of an ensemble and pursue careers in the national and global circus industry.”

https://www.swinburne.edu.au/course/undergraduate/bachelor-of-circus-arts/handbook/
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October 12, 2024 6:06pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350449362/meghan-markle-says-she-was-one-most-bullied-people-world

Corollary: “Just about everyone says that Meghan Markle is one of the thickest and most self-obsessed people in the world”.
3 2
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October 12, 2024 7:07pm
- Mike
  
  Both can be true.
  
  2 2
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  October 12, 2024 7:13pm
- Ghost
  
  I couldn’t be bothered reading it when I saw it, I figured she meant her staff were some of the most bullied people in the world, by her
  
  2 2
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  October 12, 2024 7:49pm
Tauhei Notts

I see that the foreign owned brewery that owns the Tui brand has come out critical of the Act Party’s take off of their advertising. As regards Auckland University.
For years I have appreciated the brilliant Tui adverts. I have always thought it such a pity that such brilliant advertising was for an undrinkable beer.
For decades now my favourite beer has been “free beer”, unless it is Tui.
From prior to the time I was born my parents were horse breeders so I have seen many horses urinate. I have never ever tasted horse’s urine, but I imagine it tastes like Tui beer.
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October 12, 2024 8:33pm

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