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October 9, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 09 October 2024

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General Debate

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cmm

Fight? Sounds like self defence to me.

One gone 10,000 more to go.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/woman-admits-fatally-stabbing-mongrel-mob-member-te-reo-wickliffe-during-fight/B6ZHCM5UDVCZNNPEDHCYVJYTRM/
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October 9, 2024 8:02am
- Simon
  
  The police / state are very touchy about people defending themselves against gang members. In a proper country gangs would have been dismantled by civil society.
  
  However the police / state would see that as under minding their authority and power. Other state myths would also fall if civil society were to stand up to gangs. Hence the police / state go out their way to protect gangs. Gangs are state subsidiaries and the state benefits from their existence and promotes them.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:14am
  - imalwaysright
    
    They are state-enabled terrorists.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:32am
  - Mike
    
    That’s very close to a Marxist perspective on crime.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:38am
  - peterwn
    
    The Self Defence law (s48 of the Crimes Act 1961) is the bane of prosecutors who will do what they can to obtain precedents to blunt its effects. However it has survived pretty well since the current form was enacted in 1981. If an accused states that she believed her life was threatened the prosecution has a hard job overcoming this and the case may not even reach court.
    For information, this is the summing up formula adopted by the Court of Appeal in 2000. It might have been modified since:
    “The jury is asked first what the accused believed the circumstances to be, from his or her point of view. The second question is whether, bearing in mind that belief of the accused about what was happening, he or she was acting in self defence (again considering from his or her point of view).The last quiestion is whether, given that belief, the force used in self-defence was actually reasonable.”
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:26am
- peterwn
  
  It is a tough one. After she had temporarily disabled the guy by squeezing his balls she was allegedly in no immediate danger and therefore could not claim self defence. Her lawyer did a good job to get the charge reduced to manslaughter so she no longer faces a minimum of 10 years in prison. There is a pending appeal and since it did not seem the case went to trial it would seem that the judge’s statement of law in some minute or preliminary ruling is being appealed against. This would almost certainly be about the application of ‘self defence’. For example the judge may have indicated (as the judge is able to) that there is no basis for self defence arguments to be put to the jury in this instance if it went to trial. The appeal judgment when it is issued will make for very interesting reading.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:31am
  - artemisia
    
    Some things can make a chap totally blind with rage ….
    
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    October 9, 2024 8:52am
  - RoboRob
    
    I imagine if this went to a Jury trial, there is no way this woman would be found guilty. By a strict interpretation of the law and a judges ivory tower, sure, but most people would see a thug attacks a woman and she defends herself. If I temporarily disabled a gang member would I be walking away and letting him recover and come after me again?
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:25am
    - peterwn
      
      If the trial judge was going to disable the ‘Self Defence’ defence as a matter of law (which is an option available to the Judge), then the defence lawyer cannot put the ‘Self Defence’ argument before the jury and the jury could well return a ‘guilty’ verdict. Perhaps the prosecution sought a ruling on this by the Judge in the lead-up to the trial and the defence has appealed this ruling. Since the trial would probably not be delayed pending the outcome of the appeal, the defence probably successfully plea bargained ‘murder’ down to ‘manslaughter’ and by pleading guilty to manslaughter the accused would be entitled to the usual early plea guilty discount. If the Court of Appeal disagrees with the judge’s ruling, it would order a new trial and the prosecutor may just withdraw the charge.
      Of course this is conjecture on my part, but it seems the only thing that fits the circumstances as we know them.
      As I mentioned earlier I await the Court of Appeal’s decision with interest.
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:41am
  - rouppe
    
    Temporarily.
    
    And then what? The threat was delayed, and only removed after the killing.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:37am
    - peterwn
      
      And the delay was the ‘window’ where ‘Self Defence’ was allegedly not available.
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:45am
- Grunter
  
  I can not understand why this is not clear-cut self-defense?
  
  A Mongrel mob member does a home invasion and starts beating up a woman. He tries to strangle her. The woman grabs him by the nuts (self-defense) and tries to run away. The Mongrel then grabs her by the foot and continues to beat her up. Hits her with a metal chair. She grabs a kitchen knife, and he grabs her from behind, she lashes out, stabbing him in the chest.
  
  Dead Mongrel. Justice done. End of story.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:20am
  - imalwaysright
    
    “Dead Mongrel. Justice done. End of story.”
    
    In a sane country those words would have come from the judge.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:55am
artemisia

Constitutional law expert Sir Geoffrey Palmer collects a roundhouse kick from constitutional law expert David Round in response to the recent Newsroom article including this : “The Luxon government is driving a number of controversial issues rapidly through Parliament. Some of these policies are unfit for purpose, legally suspect, contrary to the public interest and inappropriate.”

Though Mr Round does concede “even a blind chicken occasionally finds a grain of corn”.

The first sentence in Mr Round’s final excoriating paragraph sums up his article – “People are not stupid..” Yip yip … to coin a phrase.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/david-round-a-dangerous-legacy
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October 9, 2024 8:04am
- Debsta
  
  Hope this is ok mods…but his long and brilliant final paragraph deserves repeating here (and everywhere!)…
  
  People are not stupid. If they are losing trust in our political institutions ~ and they are ~ it is not because of the evil machinations of the current government ~ which might actually do something to stop the rot, although probably not enough ~ and it is not because of some sinister right wing plot. People are losing trust in our institutions because those institutions no longer deserve our trust. Our judges are increasingly pathetic and disgraceful. Our news media, when not pushing shallow mindless trash, are liars and censors. Our academics are woke indoctrinators. Oppressive overpaid bureaucrats appear to live in another world. We are increasingly ruled by parasites who perform little if any useful function. They form the lenocracy ~ the ever-increasing class of ‘experts’, consultants, managers, managers of managers, whose job it is to tell us what to do, and clip the ticket whenever we try to do anything. They are Sir Geoffrey’s people, and he would like them, not us, to be in charge.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:37am
- peterwn
  
  A report was being passed up the management food chain. One of the managers did not agree with a statement in the report and minuted ‘Round Objects’ in the margin. The Big Boss then asked ‘Who is Round and why does he object?’
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:50am
Mike

Happy World Post Day! It’s the 150th anniversary of the Universal Postal Union.
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October 9, 2024 8:13am
Simon

Yvonne Gray, Victoria Cross

Battling climate change in the Pacific while saving 70 people. Anything is possible.
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October 9, 2024 8:15am
- Mike
  
  The line between medal and punishment can be quite fine.
  A VC, btw, like the other gallantry awards, is only available for actions in the face of an enemy. Bravery awards are not out of the question though.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:37am
  - Simon
    
    “is only available for actions in the face of an enemy.”
    
    The enemy is climate change. Rules are changed all the time. Especially anything that will erase historical meaning.
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:27am
colina

Does history matter? | Dr Paul Moon
Every NZer should watch this short excellent lesson
https://youtu.be/Vq-fElBRzxU?si=jOTScbYYhZZNkUCg
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October 9, 2024 8:21am
Maggy Wassilieff

Is it preposterous that a NZ Herald Journalist has no idea that the word prosperous is not a synonym of preposterous?

“My point being, to think that the rangatira of 1840 would totally surrender their mana to a couple of blokes and some missionaries, it’s prosperous, culturally and psychologically impossible.”

Seymour said what was prosperous was suggesting “Queen Victoria, arguably the most powerful superpower at the time, would enter into a partnership with 100,000 Māori on the other side of the world”.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/david-seymour-helmut-modlik-what-went-down-in-the-first-public-treaty-principles-bill-debate/JID3YBOLIZGXRJ7DEHWZYSRXVI/
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October 9, 2024 8:24am
- Gravelroad
  
  Don’t know why anyone would be surprised.
  In today’s media world, it is not what you know that counts, it is what you think and feel.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:32am
- Yvette
  
  What may be preposterous is that northern Maori chiefs signed He Whakaputanga – Declaration of Independence – in 1835, asserting their sovereignty over New Zealand, but five years later didn’t remember what ‘sovereignty’ meant.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:35am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Y,
    Yes, that was convenient.
    What was also convenient, and probably why they were so impatient to sign the treaty, was the Crowns promise to give them shit loads of cash for land, most of which they had never seen let alone occupied.
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:24am
- Swifty
  
  The word pathetic springs to mind. How could they make that mistake twice?
  
  On another point, this is where Modlik was at his most unconvincing in my view. He makes bold assertions about ‘impossibility’ but provides no evidence to support the claim and conveniently ignores the words of the chiefs who willingly embraced the treaty and in the full knowledge of what it meant for sovereignty.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:38am
  - newview
    
    Swifty. Another counter argument from Seymour was “so you believe when the Maori signed the Treaty they believed sovereignty only applied to white NZRS.”
    (Approx wording). Quite funny I thought.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:37am
    - Swifty
      
      Yes.
      
      And there is 150 years of Maori activity and behaviour subsequently that does nothing but confirm they thought sovereignty was ceded.
      
      History is being rewritten before our eyes.
      
      They think we’re stupid and can’t see it.
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:01am
  - rouppe
    
    Modlik ignored the reality of the time.
    
    The musket wars had raged. Thousands of Maori killed each other. Prior to that, endless skirmishes of one iwi predating on another.
    
    That so called sovereignty lasted as long as the next battle, where one of the combatants lost theirs.
    
    Perhaps they thought that having one power over the country might stop that. And it did.
    
    Generally speaking, chiefs retained control over their own and hapu. Until their people realized they could move to other areas, they drifted away, and their chiefly influence drifted away with them.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:47am
    - Swifty
      
      Good points rouppe.
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:17am
- Burtland
  
  it has since been corrected …
  
  by Julia Gabel – Bachelor of Arts and Journalism Post-Graduate Degree at AUT
  
  education is not what it used to be
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:41am
- artemisia
  
  Maybe it was 100% accurate reporting. Unusual, I know, but does happen time to time.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:54am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    If both speakers did actually use the malapropism “prosperous”, and if the journalist recognized the mistake, the standard procedure would be to insert “[sic]” to signal to readers that “prosperous” is the speaker’s mistake, not the reporter’s.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:14am
    - rouppe
      
      I bet they used AI to do the conversion from the speeches, and didn’t read it.
      
      And probably thought AI knew more than them about English
      
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      October 9, 2024 9:49am
    - artemisia
      
      Or the first instance was a mis-speak, or ignorance. And the second instance was having a laugh.
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:06am
    - cmm
      
      I doubt our modern wordsmiths use things like [sic].
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:32am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The link to the debate is in the Herald article.
    
    Modlik interjects with “preposterous” whilst Seymour is speaking…
    Seymour then picks up on the word to explain what is preposterous about Modlik’s stance.
    
    It is pretty damn clear to hear what has been recorded.
    
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    October 9, 2024 11:06am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  I’m trying to fathom what the downticker is trying to say about this comment.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:10am
  - NothingLeft
    
    I think there are a few malcontents who hate kiwiblog and all it stands for and either tediously go through and down tick everything in the site the love to hate every day, or have an automated script that does that same thing.
    -empty empty lives of sad wee people lacking agency
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:55am
    - Bridgenag
      
      You haven’t made it until you have troll down tickers //
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:22am
      - AitchW
        
        Bridgenag, perhaps we should use downticks to express approval….
        
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        October 9, 2024 10:31am
- Jack5
  
  The reporter’s self-description says:
  
  “I studied a Bachelor of Arts and after living in Beijing for two years, I found my way into the field when I did the Journalism Post-Graduate Degree at AUT.”
  
  She garbles even her self-description. Or maybe she did study someone who graduated with a BA degree.
  
  AUT offers bachelor and master qualifications in communications studies. For the Master of Communications Studies degree, the cost is $10,607, with taxpayers funding about $30,500. Radio NZ and State-funder NZ on Air offer scholarships for ethnic Asian students.
  
  AUT also offers a post-graduate diploma in communications studies, with the same fees. AUT minimum entry requirements for the diploma course include:”Relevant professional qualification or experience approved by the Dean to be equivalent to a bachelor’s degree.”
  
  Reporter’s self-description:
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/author/julia-gabel/
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:00am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

The Treaty of Waitangi for Newbies.
Article 2. Part 3.
Video 12 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ezNL96OUuU
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October 9, 2024 8:27am
- G152
  
  wise people surrender when they see the war is unwinnable.
  Fools never learn from history
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:07am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  A good explanation of why the Waitangi Tribunal uses the rogue James Freeman version of the Treaty of Waitangi.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:18am
artemisia

Once-was 6 year Kainga Ora Board member Philippa Howden-Chapman’s resignation letter is now public. Elevator speech – not the Board’s fault because reasons.

All this current talk about conflicts of interest, have to wonder if she has a large one as a persistent and long term lobbyist for landlords to spend big money to upgrade rentals. Of course then rents and risk assessments increase, due also to the previous government rules to make it extremely hard and expensive to end tenancies of bad tenants. Maybe leading to overcrowding as households budge up to pay rent or look after those landlords won’t touch.

Philippa Howden-Chapman is on the record saying overcrowding is the single biggest housing-related cause of poor mental and physical health.

Last word from Minister Bishop – “The independent review of Kāinga Ora was critical of the governance of the organisation. It is probably unsurprising that a member of the board that was criticised disagrees with that criticism.”
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October 9, 2024 8:35am
zulumonster

I am beginning to think the governments Fair Digital News Bill is a cunning plan to undermine the MSM by stealth.
Our news media entities obviously see the bill as a path to a deserved new revenue source, while Google have signaled they will stop linking to NZ news sources rather than pay for the privilege (and Facebook may well follow)
Surely the government has seen this coming, even if the media can’t? I’m no great fan of Google and Facebook, but by providing links on their platforms to the news media platforms, surely that drives more traffic to the media sites? It may not be that simple, but I think I know who is going to win this battle and I wonder if the government has played this nicely.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/10/08/canadas-example-shows-how-link-tax-bill-will-fail/?mc_cid=bd3d47ef98&mc_eid=b68775a22a
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October 9, 2024 8:36am
- RoboRob
  
  Canada and AU both tried and failed to milk social media companies. As if little NZ is going to succeed. I look forward to Google recommenations no longer including Stuffed, RNZ etc.
  
  The government is stupid to try it and the ‘journalists’ are just stupid.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:29am
- Master Mariner
  
  Yep, Tend to agree , What other conclusion would you expect ?
  Said the same comment a month or 2 back.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:33am
- Ghost
  
  Google already pays, their concern is the wording of the bill
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:55am
  - zulumonster
    
    Ghost – I believe Google’s objection is that they may be forced to pay, or at least forced into a commercial negotiation (that will be nothing like a commercial negotiation) for linking to a news story with a few lines describing the story. That can only drive more traffic to the media site – in theory Google could claim that they should be getting paid for providing this service.
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:12am
Yvette

On Kiwiblog, just back in August, a comment (not by me) was made –
Instead of Luxon repeating like an automaton “we will not support ACTs bill beyond the first reading”, can he please provide us with a thoughtful, well reasoned rationale for this stance ? No one has seen the bill. Why the dogmatism ? We are waiting to hear …

Still, ‘a little girl waits’ …
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October 9, 2024 8:39am
Bridgenag

HMNZS MANAWANUI
Details are already starting to emerge of the frantic rescue efforts that saved the crew of the stricken vessel on Saturday evening and which continued until the early hours of Sunday.
PHILIP CRUMP

https://open.substack.com/pub/cranmer/p/hmnzs-manawanui?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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October 9, 2024 8:40am
Mike

I thought this piece was a useful insight into what happens when a naval vessel runs into trouble.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350444681/i-was-captain-navy-ship-manawanui-just-sank-mine-almost-sank-too
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October 9, 2024 8:40am
- Homas
  
  “I was captain of a navy ship like Manawanui that just sank. Mine almost sank too”
  
  Today’s episode is brought to you by the word “almost”.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:32am
- Master Mariner
  
  There is a big difference navigating uncharted waters
  in Antarctic Waters and the Bloody Pacific where you knew there was a Reef //
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:40am
- cmm
  
  White knighting.
  
  See boys have problems too… Nothing to do with DEI…
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:36am
Grunter

A new law in the U.K. requires chicken owners to register their birds. In protest, British people crashed the website by registering the roasted chickens in their refrigerators because, Cluck You and your over-regulation of backyard birds!
https://reason.com/2024/10/08/brickbat-nobody-here-but-us-chickens/
🤣🤣
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October 9, 2024 8:42am
- thirteenstars
  
  What a fowl law.
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:05am
- AitchW
  
  Grunter, if ever you needed an example of pointless over regulation by a left wing government giddy with power this is it.
  Even if people only registered live birds, who would remember to cancel the registration when old Chicken Licken fell of the perch? Within a few years they’d have a huge and enormously innacurate database, no doubt taking millions of pounds to administer.
  Menawhile they’re cancelling the energy payment for oldies in winter.
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:40am
  - Ghost
    
    I’d say it’s more hysteria from the covid days, wanting to track birds for bird flu
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:47am
  - kowtow
    
    It’s prolly less govt and more bureaucratic .
    The unelected bureaucrats , as we know from that documentary , Yes Minister , who actually run the gubmint.
    
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    October 9, 2024 11:02am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The Biden Admin don’t care about the American people. There is only one thing they want, retain power at all costs, even if that means losing the lives of citizens.
If Harris should win, America will not be a nice place to live. The American Dream will be gone.

https://conservativeadvocacy.com/biden-admin-diverts-1-billion-from-disaster-relief-to-support-illegal-immigrants/?
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October 9, 2024 8:45am
- Close Hen Counters
  
  Good morning Steve ☺️ I couldn’t agree more and hope with every fibre of my body trump gets in! Have you read or watched hillbilly elegy? My rooster and I watched it two nights ago – incredible and incredibly sad. JD’s life is miles apart from Kamala’s middle class family with neighbours who have lovely lawns.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:07am
  - MCōs
    
    Do you remember what sort of lawns Mike Pence’s neighbours had?
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:34am
- MCōs
  
  While you squawk about the latest propaganda from some MAGA rag take have a look at the storm as seen from a space station
  https://x.com/dominickmatthew/status/1843679036792549688?s=61&t=yFkzCNMWRCaVt1p5eRxUog
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:12am
  - MCōs
    
    Another clip
    https://x.com/wxnb_/status/1843699745300304237?s=61&t=yFkzCNMWRCaVt1p5eRxUog
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:14am
- Grunter
  
  I see the Kackling One was on 60 Minutes. When asked why she has changed her mind on so many policies (too many to list), her reply was
  
  “I’m the Vice President of the United States, I travel a lot….”
  
  WTF?
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:26am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That is what it is, yip, yip
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:49am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Even worse. On the 60 minutes interview CBS have cut an manipulated an entire wordsalad answer she gave about Israel, and replaced it with a completely different answer and facial expressions so new clip or AI?
    
    She was asked about Israel conflict she awkwardly and with many hesitations said : “Well Bill, the work that we have done has resulted in a number of movements in that region by Israel that were very much prompted by or a result of many things including our advocacy for what needs to happen in the region,’ Harris replied.
    
    The new edited clip is answered confidently and says: “‘We are not going to stop pursuing what is necessary for the United States to be clear about where we stand on the need for this war to end,’.
    
    Clip showing original video answer and the new one being shown by cbs here:
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1843664856446316758
    Daily mail article on the edit: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13938177/Kamala-Harris-Israel-word-salad-60-minutes-edited.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=social-twitter_mailonline
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:03am
- Mike
  
  Are the state authorities helping, or are they too busy illegally harassing pro-choice activists?
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:30am
- AitchW
  
  SO while agee that the Biden/Harris government cares not a jot for the American People I’m not convinced that the Trump mob is any better.
  As far as I can see pretty much everyone in American politics is there for their own self interest and is polluted by wealthy pressure groups who contribute vast sums of money to their camapign.
  I really do fear for America after this election. If they elect Harris the economy is stuffed. If they elect Trump they’ll have a president who spends most of his time on the golf course and leaves the running of the country to unelected officials. Not only that, the left will riot, making Jan 6th look like a teddy bear’s party. The usual suspects (LGBTQIA+, pro Palestine, Watermelons, rent a mob) will have a field day looting and burning.
  I have no idea what the solution is. The swamp needs to be drained, filled and concreted over and there is no-one obvious to do it.
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:49am
- Dougal10
  
  Harris is a threat to the federation , most states will chose to ignore her.
  
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  October 9, 2024 11:02am
Grunter

All the EV owners in Florida are in a bit of a pickle as they try and escape Hurricane Milton.

Highways congested……

Charging stations full…..

Batteries going flat…..

Cars left on the side of the road…..

Who would have thunk that…..Da!
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October 9, 2024 8:49am
- Ghost
  
  Well they aren’t the only ones having trouble, petrol stations closed, no fuel
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:16am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    I had clients there and they told me yesterday the gas stations in Orlando were out of fuel. Thank God we got them out last night because if this is bad as being speculated you would want as many out of harms way as possible.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:53am
  - cmm
    
    There is a bit of a difference in that someone can give you 20 litres of fuel and you can drive another 200km (OK, maybe only 100km in a F350).
    
    It is amazing to me that people didn’t think things through and have 50litres or more stored.
    
    Many people love to mock the preppers, but those with 200 litres of petrol in their trailer will be in a far better position.
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:46am
fightingtemeraire

On the Manawanui from a US Commentator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR85gqVwbWQ
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October 9, 2024 8:56am
- mogg
  
  That’s a good vid, but nobody has asked the question; why was the ship so high up onto the reef.
  Surely that was not caused by ocean currents or wind conditions, it had to be travelling at speed to have that sort of momentum. There is something very strange about this whole situation.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:54am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That was worth the watch. Thanks.
  The mis-information out there is incredible. The depth is around 500 feet. When this first happened a depth of 2 KM was reported.
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:10am
Master Mariner

The vessel was designed and built to stop any power failure from occuring in the first place due to being a Dive support / Sub Sea vessel.

There is speculation Bio Diesel “May” have contributed to single point of failure. However speculation.

Regardless, Lets hope NZ Diplomats are working overtime negotiating with Samoan Authorities because NZ will be looking at a potential Billion dollar wreck removal long term and medium term paying for immediate clean up in the middle of know where.

https://gcaptain.com/new-zealand-navy-assessing-environmental-impact-from-manawanui-sinking/

And a few interesting facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR85gqVwbWQ
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October 9, 2024 8:58am
- peterwn
  
  The top priority will be getting the fuel unloaded from the ship as was the case with the Rena. The Navy is no doubt seeking a suitable tanker and ancillary equipment.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:41am
  - Ghost
    
    I would expect that salvage company will be doing that, not the navy
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:48am
- Sparrow
  
  As having left the sea more than 50 years ago I am not up with all the latest maritime changes such as vessels having block box’s. On some of the Union Company slow greens we had only a magnetic steering compass. God! a gyro compass far too modern!!! So what do these marine black box’s monitor. Seek the advice of Master Mariner and others. Curious. Thanks
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:07am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  MM, when loss of power is stated, does that mean mechanical power or electric power?
  Seems to be a grey area atm.
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:15am
  - Taieri
    
    This ship had four main generator engines driving four generators, which in turn supplied two electrical propulsion motors and 3 bow thrusters.
    So, the loss of power in this context probably means the loss of mechanical power, i.e. the failure of all generator engines at the same time.
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:21am
    - AitchW
      
      Taieri is it likely that all 4 engines would fail at once?
      What would cause such a catastrophic failure?
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:52am
- Taieri
  
  And a few interesting facts.
  ————
  
  The prevailing weather and tide in particular.
  
  And the course plot – 16.44 min. Very strange.
  What was that ship actually doing there at the time?
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:21am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Ivanka Trump distributes food, supplies, Starlink units to NC families following storms.
Elon Musk has come to the party with Starlink Terminals. They work free.
Ivanka teamed up with CityServe to distribute food donated by Planet Harvest. Her 10 year of son is with her helping.
Joe Biden stated 100 troops are being sent to respond. Um Joe, when did the hurricane first hit? You knew then help would be needed. Joe the do nothing President.

https://www.rsbnetwork.com/news/ivanka-trump-distributes-food-supplies-starlink-units-to-nc-families-following-storms/
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October 9, 2024 9:02am
- cmm
  
  Meanwhile Florida:
  * Sorted out their own state within 48 hours including building bridges, clearing roads and reconnecting millions of houses.
  * Then sent their state resources to help other states.
  * Have gone back to Florida to await the next one.
  * Will fix that and soon after be out fixing other states.
  
  Moral of the story is smaller government is more effective than large. Don’t depend on the federal.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:10am
  - MCōs
    
    If Florida was a country it would be about the sixtieth biggest in the world by population so it should be able to look after itself
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:19am
    - cmm
      
      Yup, but they are also part of the USA and pay taxes to the USA etc.
      They have learned not to depend on the Federal government and avoid it where they can.
      
      Compare that with California who are far less capable as a state, but then have to cope with very different emergencies (earthquakes vs hurricanes).
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:54am
- Scott
  
  Kamala Harris sits down for an interview on 60 Minutes. It does not go well. She seems nervous. She seems very uncertain. Her answers lack any substance.
  Hugh Hewitt in a 9 minute video highlights some of the main highlights from the interview –
  
  https://youtu.be/oogojbMwbKQ?si=YhH6U7XkGZe-ig1v
  I think what people need to know is that even if elected Kamala won’t be the president. She’ll occupy the office but she’s really a front person for the globalists. In the same way Biden has never really been the president.
  
  I’m not sure who is really running that country but the American media have no curiosity in finding out. Maybe it’s Obama?
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:16am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Agree.
    If Ms Harris is elected, she will just be the person standing up the front saying what she is told to say.
    The real power will be the faceless bureaucrats in the back office, aided by the media and a few of the electeds (past and present) who supposedly know something of relevance.
    Hope the tele -promoter doesn’t break down too often, like it did recently. Poor Ms Harris didn’t cope.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:53am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is Obama wanting his 4th term.
    He has been very quiet, that to me is suspicious.
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:18am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I like the first comment on that Youtube video.
    “Nauseating, she should join The View”
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:35am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That would be 1000 troops. My typos!
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:16am
Matt Long

Human rights organizations that are anti semetic.
Red Cross. https://x.com/K0sher_C0ckney/status/1843611615880515782
Amnesty International.
https://x.com/aziz0nomics/status/1842926479304200629
Every UN organisation, but particularly UNRWA
Canada’s “hate speech” Tzar confirms their purpose is to shut down dissent from progressive causes, not stop actual hate speech.
https://x.com/AmazingZoltan/status/1843359845044629879
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October 9, 2024 9:04am
Grunter

Cranmer reports

“It is, therefore, highly possible, that HMNZS Manawanui was performing duties connected with CHOGM and the imminent arrival of King Charles at the Sinelai Resort. That point may never be officially confirmed”

CHOGM is being held at Apia from 21 October and the local press have already confirmed that King Charles III will be staying at the Sinelai Resort when he arrives on 25 October to participate in CHOGM.

The Sinelai Resort is about 1.5km from where the ship sank on Sunday.

On Monday evening, the HMS Tamar, a 90 metre British Royal Navy patrol vessel could be seen from the Sinelai. The Tamar had arrived in Suva last Wednesday evening, spending two days in port before departing for Samoa on Friday.

Now this of course might be a red herring – but why wouldn’t the MSM investigate down this line of inquiry? Seems like a plausible scenario.
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October 9, 2024 9:05am
Bridgenag

you can’t handle the truth (so we’ll make some up for you)
dispatches from the fascism follies files A must watch video of MSM manipulation

“they all know that kamala cannot answer simple questions without a script. they all know that we cannot be allowed to see her as she is lest we recoil in horror at the astonishing incoherence. you don’t edit this out by accident. perhaps once there was a media who would have shown us the truth of this because truth was their pole-star, but if such were ever so, it is so no longer. these are the other guys. they guys who lie. the guys who put their thumb on the scale.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/boriquagato/p/you-cant-handle-the-truth-so-well?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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October 9, 2024 9:07am
- All_on_Red
  
  More info here on CBS editing Harris’s Interview
  https://hotair.com/david-strom/2024/10/08/60-minutes-edits-harris-train-wreck-answer-on-israel-to-make-it-sound-coherent-n3795551
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:19am
- Mummy
  
  We accidentally had the TV news on last night and caught part of an interview with her at St Andrew’s air force base rabbitting on about the American people and Helene. She kept looking down to her right and at one point we could see someone’s hand holding an open iPad. Even when she’s incoherent she needs to read it.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:41am
Kiwiguy

I started listening to that Maori debate last night.
As soon as that Bradbury idiot repeatedly called people ‘comrades’, I turned it off.
I’ve never deliberately listened to or watched him before; and I sure won’t be ever again. What a twat.
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October 9, 2024 9:09am
- rouppe
  
  He is a twat.
  
  I grief through the intro to hear the other two.
  
  At the end he went rogue and went on and on about his daughter being in a Maori immersion school. Like who cares how he bring up his children? It had nothing to do with the topic at hand.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:59am
- cmm
  
  It is probably safe to say that if someone gets a platform on TV in NZ then they are activists.
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:50am
Matt Long

NZ Medical Council forced Doctor’s to promote the covid vax and not mention risks or face over the top disciplinary action.
“In September 2021,” Richard Aston testified, “the first wave of complaints about doctors, COVID, vaccines, and the prescribing of Ivermectin came to MCNZ. I was shocked at the different approach Council members had toward these complaints, compared with their normal thorough and fair approach.”
https://centrist.co.nz/exclusive-insider-reveals-nz-medical-councils-hardball-tactics-during-covid/?_kx=gt_8S35YimFGdYtYnfV0LJWIrseBatGYoTFrOTWj2qH3JoHS_GfaS99gstsQwRNU.VYfxNg
Requires registration, but not subscription to view.
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October 9, 2024 9:12am
- MCōs
  
  Call themselves ‘centrist’ which means they’re anything but and requires registration so they can send emails for the rest of your life no matter how often you tell them to stop
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:27am
Bridgenag

The VSRF Misinformation Superspreader Library Raffle
A wealth of knowledge at your fingertips

https://open.substack.com/pub/stevekirsch/p/the-vsrf-misinformation-superspreader?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

“Mckeekitty
We are in the fourth and final turning. 11 minutes.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xeVyfiP0cLk“
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October 9, 2024 9:32am
cas

Here is my observation for the day.

Banana trees are very prolific breeders.
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October 9, 2024 9:37am
- MCōs
  
  My wife planted one out the front and now there’s about six.
  Took awhile, but we’ve had a big bunch of a hundred or so bananas off the original plant. Weren’t too bad, just a bit overwhelming.
  Also galangal and artichoke which are edible root plants that take a life of their own.
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:34am
BeaB

So no leaking oil from the wreck but TVNZ still had to give us film of a turtle struggling to survive in the oily debris.
What makes me think we are in for months of bs from everyone involved?
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October 9, 2024 10:36am

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