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October 9, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 09 October 2024

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General Debate

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cmm

Fight? Sounds like self defence to me.

One gone 10,000 more to go.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/woman-admits-fatally-stabbing-mongrel-mob-member-te-reo-wickliffe-during-fight/B6ZHCM5UDVCZNNPEDHCYVJYTRM/
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October 9, 2024 8:02am
- Simon
  
  The police / state are very touchy about people defending themselves against gang members. In a proper country gangs would have been dismantled by civil society.
  
  However the police / state would see that as under minding their authority and power. Other state myths would also fall if civil society were to stand up to gangs. Hence the police / state go out their way to protect gangs. Gangs are state subsidiaries and the state benefits from their existence and promotes them.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:14am
  - imalwaysright
    
    They are state-enabled terrorists.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:32am
  - Mike
    
    That’s very close to a Marxist perspective on crime.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:38am
    - Colinxy
      
      Yes, but probably not in the manner you mean. What Simon has essentially described is Anarcho-Tyranny. Which is essentially a contradiction, which is the basis of Dialectic Materialism, IOW Marxism.
      
      A probably less biased definition of Anarcho-Tyranny than Wikipedia.
      
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      October 9, 2024 3:12pm
  - peterwn
    
    The Self Defence law (s48 of the Crimes Act 1961) is the bane of prosecutors who will do what they can to obtain precedents to blunt its effects. However it has survived pretty well since the current form was enacted in 1981. If an accused states that she believed her life was threatened the prosecution has a hard job overcoming this and the case may not even reach court.
    For information, this is the summing up formula adopted by the Court of Appeal in 2000. It might have been modified since:
    “The jury is asked first what the accused believed the circumstances to be, from his or her point of view. The second question is whether, bearing in mind that belief of the accused about what was happening, he or she was acting in self defence (again considering from his or her point of view).The last quiestion is whether, given that belief, the force used in self-defence was actually reasonable.”
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:26am
    - fernglas
      
      peterwn. Your first sentence is rubbish. The law on self-defence has been around for years and prosecutors deal with it as they deal with all other matters of justification and excuse. It is not their “bane” and they don’t try to “blunt” it, but they do try to ensure that it is properly used. You really need to learn a bit more about how the law works before you comment on it.
      
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      October 9, 2024 2:22pm
      - peterwn
        
        There was a major review of the law of Self Defence in the late 1970’s which led to the Self Defence section (s48) of the Crimes Act 1961 being re-written and simplified in 1980-1981. That was a vast improvement in my opinion. I was on a jury where the principal issue involved ‘Self Defence’. It was a re-trial following a hung jury in the first trial because the prosecutor confused the jury in his quest for a scalp on behalf of the Police (the accused was a Police Officer). At the start of the second trial the Judge gave the jury a memorandum of the law which included the standard form of summing up that I quoted in an earlier post. Once again the prosecutor tried to bullshit the jury but it did not work and we returned a ‘not guilty’ verdict in less than 30 minutes. The media commented on the speed with which a verdict was reached. With the greatest of respect, I think I have a reasonable knowledge of the law as it relates to Self Defence.
        
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        October 9, 2024 5:26pm
      - fernglas
        
        I wasn’t commenting on your exposition of the law of self-defence, although one trial as a juror and a perusal of the internet doesn’t make you an expert. I was commenting on your assertions about prosecutors. They are rubbish, as I said.
        
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        October 9, 2024 5:44pm
  - Keith White
    
    Cahill’s Gang want a monopoly on violence.
    
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    October 9, 2024 8:53pm
- peterwn
  
  It is a tough one. After she had temporarily disabled the guy by squeezing his balls she was allegedly in no immediate danger and therefore could not claim self defence. Her lawyer did a good job to get the charge reduced to manslaughter so she no longer faces a minimum of 10 years in prison. There is a pending appeal and since it did not seem the case went to trial it would seem that the judge’s statement of law in some minute or preliminary ruling is being appealed against. This would almost certainly be about the application of ‘self defence’. For example the judge may have indicated (as the judge is able to) that there is no basis for self defence arguments to be put to the jury in this instance if it went to trial. The appeal judgment when it is issued will make for very interesting reading.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:31am
  - artemisia
    
    Some things can make a chap totally blind with rage ….
    
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    October 9, 2024 8:52am
  - RoboRob
    
    I imagine if this went to a Jury trial, there is no way this woman would be found guilty. By a strict interpretation of the law and a judges ivory tower, sure, but most people would see a thug attacks a woman and she defends herself. If I temporarily disabled a gang member would I be walking away and letting him recover and come after me again?
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:25am
    - peterwn
      
      If the trial judge was going to disable the ‘Self Defence’ defence as a matter of law (which is an option available to the Judge), then the defence lawyer cannot put the ‘Self Defence’ argument before the jury and the jury could well return a ‘guilty’ verdict. Perhaps the prosecution sought a ruling on this by the Judge in the lead-up to the trial and the defence has appealed this ruling. Since the trial would probably not be delayed pending the outcome of the appeal, the defence probably successfully plea bargained ‘murder’ down to ‘manslaughter’ and by pleading guilty to manslaughter the accused would be entitled to the usual early plea guilty discount. If the Court of Appeal disagrees with the judge’s ruling, it would order a new trial and the prosecutor may just withdraw the charge.
      Of course this is conjecture on my part, but it seems the only thing that fits the circumstances as we know them.
      As I mentioned earlier I await the Court of Appeal’s decision with interest.
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:41am
      - fernglas
        
        Again, peterwn, you are full of it. The appeal is against the refusal of name suppression, according to the article. If the defence was appealing a pre-trial ruling that took away self-defence, then she would not have pleaded guilty. You are right, it is conjecture by you, and rather poorly informed conjecture at that.
        
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        October 9, 2024 2:28pm
  - rouppe
    
    Temporarily.
    
    And then what? The threat was delayed, and only removed after the killing.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:37am
    - peterwn
      
      And the delay was the ‘window’ where ‘Self Defence’ was allegedly not available.
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:45am
- Grunter
  
  I can not understand why this is not clear-cut self-defense?
  
  A Mongrel mob member does a home invasion and starts beating up a woman. He tries to strangle her. The woman grabs him by the nuts (self-defense) and tries to run away. The Mongrel then grabs her by the foot and continues to beat her up. Hits her with a metal chair. She grabs a kitchen knife, and he grabs her from behind, she lashes out, stabbing him in the chest.
  
  Dead Mongrel. Justice done. End of story.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:20am
  - imalwaysright
    
    “Dead Mongrel. Justice done. End of story.”
    
    In a sane country those words would have come from the judge.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:55am
    - Keith White
      
      And, the gene pool left uncontaminated.
      
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      October 9, 2024 8:54pm
  - John Loveridge
    
    One might suggest she gets a gong instead of a sentence.
    
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    October 9, 2024 12:36pm
    - Keith White
      
      Yessir.
      
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      October 9, 2024 8:55pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Clear away all the sophistry and a reasonable person would think “break into someone’s home, then you are rightfully dead meat” Surely?
    
    Don’t want to die? Don’t break into another person’s home.
    
    Even Kamala knows this. She owns a firearm and has said she will use it on a home invader. She practices at the gun range.
    
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    October 9, 2024 6:09pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    I dunno.
    
    I was on a jury (I was the foreman). It became clear that self-defence was the basis of the defence. It was left to us to acquit. We did.
    
    It became obvious to me that in a situation where there is some life-threatening behaviour the police have no option but to bring charges. They did.
    
    The defendant was acquitted. End of.
    
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    October 9, 2024 6:54pm
artemisia

Constitutional law expert Sir Geoffrey Palmer collects a roundhouse kick from constitutional law expert David Round in response to the recent Newsroom article including this : “The Luxon government is driving a number of controversial issues rapidly through Parliament. Some of these policies are unfit for purpose, legally suspect, contrary to the public interest and inappropriate.”

Though Mr Round does concede “even a blind chicken occasionally finds a grain of corn”.

The first sentence in Mr Round’s final excoriating paragraph sums up his article – “People are not stupid..” Yip yip … to coin a phrase.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/david-round-a-dangerous-legacy
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October 9, 2024 8:04am
- Debsta
  
  Hope this is ok mods…but his long and brilliant final paragraph deserves repeating here (and everywhere!)…
  
  People are not stupid. If they are losing trust in our political institutions ~ and they are ~ it is not because of the evil machinations of the current government ~ which might actually do something to stop the rot, although probably not enough ~ and it is not because of some sinister right wing plot. People are losing trust in our institutions because those institutions no longer deserve our trust. Our judges are increasingly pathetic and disgraceful. Our news media, when not pushing shallow mindless trash, are liars and censors. Our academics are woke indoctrinators. Oppressive overpaid bureaucrats appear to live in another world. We are increasingly ruled by parasites who perform little if any useful function. They form the lenocracy ~ the ever-increasing class of ‘experts’, consultants, managers, managers of managers, whose job it is to tell us what to do, and clip the ticket whenever we try to do anything. They are Sir Geoffrey’s people, and he would like them, not us, to be in charge.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:37am
  - pdm
    
    Well said Debsta.
    
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    October 9, 2024 11:46am
- peterwn
  
  A report was being passed up the management food chain. One of the managers did not agree with a statement in the report and minuted ‘Round Objects’ in the margin. The Big Boss then asked ‘Who is Round and why does he object?’
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:50am
Mike

Happy World Post Day! It’s the 150th anniversary of the Universal Postal Union.
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October 9, 2024 8:13am
Simon

Yvonne Gray, Victoria Cross

Battling climate change in the Pacific while saving 70 people. Anything is possible.
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October 9, 2024 8:15am
- Mike
  
  The line between medal and punishment can be quite fine.
  A VC, btw, like the other gallantry awards, is only available for actions in the face of an enemy. Bravery awards are not out of the question though.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:37am
  - Simon
    
    “is only available for actions in the face of an enemy.”
    
    The enemy is climate change. Rules are changed all the time. Especially anything that will erase historical meaning.
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:27am
    - Nobby2
      
      Give us some examples !! Your 8.15am post is puerile and incorrect, suggest you research what a VC is awarded for.
      
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      October 9, 2024 11:53am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        George Cross, then
        
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        October 9, 2024 9:58pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      “The enemy is climate change.”
      
      No the enemy is the horrible great unwashed crowding out the holiday-planet of the very rich. The flawed climate change hypothesis is the excuse for trying to inflict a giant controlled surveillance-state ant farm on those not enjoying great wealth.
      
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      October 9, 2024 6:17pm
colina

Does history matter? | Dr Paul Moon
Every NZer should watch this short excellent lesson
https://youtu.be/Vq-fElBRzxU?si=jOTScbYYhZZNkUCg
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October 9, 2024 8:21am
Maggy Wassilieff

Is it preposterous that a NZ Herald Journalist has no idea that the word prosperous is not a synonym of preposterous?

“My point being, to think that the rangatira of 1840 would totally surrender their mana to a couple of blokes and some missionaries, it’s prosperous, culturally and psychologically impossible.”

Seymour said what was prosperous was suggesting “Queen Victoria, arguably the most powerful superpower at the time, would enter into a partnership with 100,000 Māori on the other side of the world”.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/david-seymour-helmut-modlik-what-went-down-in-the-first-public-treaty-principles-bill-debate/JID3YBOLIZGXRJ7DEHWZYSRXVI/
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October 9, 2024 8:24am
- Gravelroad
  
  Don’t know why anyone would be surprised.
  In today’s media world, it is not what you know that counts, it is what you think and feel.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:32am
- Yvette
  
  What may be preposterous is that northern Maori chiefs signed He Whakaputanga – Declaration of Independence – in 1835, asserting their sovereignty over New Zealand, but five years later didn’t remember what ‘sovereignty’ meant.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:35am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Y,
    Yes, that was convenient.
    What was also convenient, and probably why they were so impatient to sign the treaty, was the Crowns promise to give them shit loads of cash for land, most of which they had never seen let alone occupied.
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:24am
- Swifty
  
  The word pathetic springs to mind. How could they make that mistake twice?
  
  On another point, this is where Modlik was at his most unconvincing in my view. He makes bold assertions about ‘impossibility’ but provides no evidence to support the claim and conveniently ignores the words of the chiefs who willingly embraced the treaty and in the full knowledge of what it meant for sovereignty.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:38am
  - newview
    
    Swifty. Another counter argument from Seymour was “so you believe when the Maori signed the Treaty they believed sovereignty only applied to white NZRS.”
    (Approx wording). Quite funny I thought.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:37am
    - Swifty
      
      Yes.
      
      And there is 150 years of Maori activity and behaviour subsequently that does nothing but confirm they thought sovereignty was ceded.
      
      History is being rewritten before our eyes.
      
      They think we’re stupid and can’t see it.
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:01am
  - rouppe
    
    Modlik ignored the reality of the time.
    
    The musket wars had raged. Thousands of Maori killed each other. Prior to that, endless skirmishes of one iwi predating on another.
    
    That so called sovereignty lasted as long as the next battle, where one of the combatants lost theirs.
    
    Perhaps they thought that having one power over the country might stop that. And it did.
    
    Generally speaking, chiefs retained control over their own and hapu. Until their people realized they could move to other areas, they drifted away, and their chiefly influence drifted away with them.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:47am
    - Swifty
      
      Good points rouppe.
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:17am
- Burtland
  
  it has since been corrected …
  
  by Julia Gabel – Bachelor of Arts and Journalism Post-Graduate Degree at AUT
  
  education is not what it used to be
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:41am
- artemisia
  
  Maybe it was 100% accurate reporting. Unusual, I know, but does happen time to time.
  
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  October 9, 2024 8:54am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    If both speakers did actually use the malapropism “prosperous”, and if the journalist recognized the mistake, the standard procedure would be to insert “[sic]” to signal to readers that “prosperous” is the speaker’s mistake, not the reporter’s.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:14am
    - rouppe
      
      I bet they used AI to do the conversion from the speeches, and didn’t read it.
      
      And probably thought AI knew more than them about English
      
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      October 9, 2024 9:49am
      - wsk12345
        
        It probably does.
        
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        October 9, 2024 1:07pm
    - artemisia
      
      Or the first instance was a mis-speak, or ignorance. And the second instance was having a laugh.
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:06am
      - waikatosinger
        
        Some ‘quotes’ should have been used in that instance.
        
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        October 9, 2024 2:22pm
    - cmm
      
      I doubt our modern wordsmiths use things like [sic].
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:32am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The link to the debate is in the Herald article.
    
    Modlik interjects with “preposterous” whilst Seymour is speaking…
    Seymour then picks up on the word to explain what is preposterous about Modlik’s stance.
    
    It is pretty damn clear to hear what has been recorded.
    
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    October 9, 2024 11:06am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  I’m trying to fathom what the downticker is trying to say about this comment.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:10am
  - NothingLeft
    
    I think there are a few malcontents who hate kiwiblog and all it stands for and either tediously go through and down tick everything in the site the love to hate every day, or have an automated script that does that same thing.
    -empty empty lives of sad wee people lacking agency
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:55am
    - Bridgenag
      
      You haven’t made it until you have troll down tickers //
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:22am
      - AitchW
        
        Bridgenag, perhaps we should use downticks to express approval….
        
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        October 9, 2024 10:31am
- Jack5
  
  The reporter’s self-description says:
  
  “I studied a Bachelor of Arts and after living in Beijing for two years, I found my way into the field when I did the Journalism Post-Graduate Degree at AUT.”
  
  She garbles even her self-description. Or maybe she did study someone who graduated with a BA degree.
  
  AUT offers bachelor and master qualifications in communications studies. For the Master of Communications Studies degree, the cost is $10,607, with taxpayers funding about $30,500. Radio NZ and State-funder NZ on Air offer scholarships for ethnic Asian students.
  
  AUT also offers a post-graduate diploma in communications studies, with the same fees. AUT minimum entry requirements for the diploma course include:”Relevant professional qualification or experience approved by the Dean to be equivalent to a bachelor’s degree.”
  
  Reporter’s self-description:
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/author/julia-gabel/
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:00am
  - Nobby2
    
    She said she studied a BA and did the Post Graduate degree but didn’t say whether she was successful in completing and being awarded either of them.
    
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    October 9, 2024 12:47pm
  - John Loveridge
    
    Poor sentence construction and grammar. I thought both would be essential skills in her line of work.
    
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    October 9, 2024 7:24pm
artemisia

Once-was 6 year Kainga Ora Board member Philippa Howden-Chapman’s resignation letter is now public. Elevator speech – not the Board’s fault because reasons.

All this current talk about conflicts of interest, have to wonder if she has a large one as a persistent and long term lobbyist for landlords to spend big money to upgrade rentals. Of course then rents and risk assessments increase, due also to the previous government rules to make it extremely hard and expensive to end tenancies of bad tenants. Maybe leading to overcrowding as households budge up to pay rent or look after those landlords won’t touch.

Philippa Howden-Chapman is on the record saying overcrowding is the single biggest housing-related cause of poor mental and physical health.

Last word from Minister Bishop – “The independent review of Kāinga Ora was critical of the governance of the organisation. It is probably unsurprising that a member of the board that was criticised disagrees with that criticism.”
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October 9, 2024 8:35am
- Nobby2
  
  It reads like a PR piece written by her about how brilliant she is and how good she was in getting things done when she was on the Board of Housing New Zealand. A good thing she has gone. As the old saying goes “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen”.
  
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  October 9, 2024 1:16pm
- Paulus
  
  But bear in mind how the Last Socialist Government destroyed the private rental market making it a poor choice any longer for prudent owners.
  It will not comeback, but that is a Marxist principle.
  
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  October 9, 2024 2:10pm
zulumonster

I am beginning to think the governments Fair Digital News Bill is a cunning plan to undermine the MSM by stealth.
Our news media entities obviously see the bill as a path to a deserved new revenue source, while Google have signaled they will stop linking to NZ news sources rather than pay for the privilege (and Facebook may well follow)
Surely the government has seen this coming, even if the media can’t? I’m no great fan of Google and Facebook, but by providing links on their platforms to the news media platforms, surely that drives more traffic to the media sites? It may not be that simple, but I think I know who is going to win this battle and I wonder if the government has played this nicely.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/10/08/canadas-example-shows-how-link-tax-bill-will-fail/?mc_cid=bd3d47ef98&mc_eid=b68775a22a
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October 9, 2024 8:36am
- RoboRob
  
  Canada and AU both tried and failed to milk social media companies. As if little NZ is going to succeed. I look forward to Google recommenations no longer including Stuffed, RNZ etc.
  
  The government is stupid to try it and the ‘journalists’ are just stupid.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:29am
- Master Mariner
  
  Yep, Tend to agree , What other conclusion would you expect ?
  Said the same comment a month or 2 back.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:33am
- Ghost
  
  Google already pays, their concern is the wording of the bill
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:55am
  - zulumonster
    
    Ghost – I believe Google’s objection is that they may be forced to pay, or at least forced into a commercial negotiation (that will be nothing like a commercial negotiation) for linking to a news story with a few lines describing the story. That can only drive more traffic to the media site – in theory Google could claim that they should be getting paid for providing this service.
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:12am
- Paulus
  
  I see if I look at for example the Herald from where their articles come, eg Telegraph and Associated Press, as two large producers as we can do nothing ourselves – as expected.
  
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  October 9, 2024 2:12pm
- John Loveridge
  
  Could a wise media outlet, understanding that social media drives visitors to their site, state that they want no part of the new Bill, decline payment, and retain their links?
  
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  October 9, 2024 7:27pm
Yvette

On Kiwiblog, just back in August, a comment (not by me) was made –
Instead of Luxon repeating like an automaton “we will not support ACTs bill beyond the first reading”, can he please provide us with a thoughtful, well reasoned rationale for this stance ? No one has seen the bill. Why the dogmatism ? We are waiting to hear …

Still, ‘a little girl waits’ …
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October 9, 2024 8:39am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Yvette – If you are waiting for Luxon to do something, I have a bridge to sell.
  
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  October 9, 2024 11:09am
- pdm
  
  I hope Luxon watched last nights debate.
  
  He would have learned that Seymour and ACT are on the right track and worth supporting if he did.
  
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  October 9, 2024 11:53am
- Ian Boag
  
  This was what he said in the coalition negotiations. Why should he turn away from it? KB generally dumps on pollies who do that sort of thing.
  
  Bizarre.
  
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  October 9, 2024 6:05pm
Bridgenag

HMNZS MANAWANUI
Details are already starting to emerge of the frantic rescue efforts that saved the crew of the stricken vessel on Saturday evening and which continued until the early hours of Sunday.
PHILIP CRUMP

https://open.substack.com/pub/cranmer/p/hmnzs-manawanui?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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October 9, 2024 8:40am
Mike

I thought this piece was a useful insight into what happens when a naval vessel runs into trouble.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350444681/i-was-captain-navy-ship-manawanui-just-sank-mine-almost-sank-too
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October 9, 2024 8:40am
- Homas
  
  “I was captain of a navy ship like Manawanui that just sank. Mine almost sank too”
  
  Today’s episode is brought to you by the word “almost”.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:32am
- Master Mariner
  
  There is a big difference navigating uncharted waters
  in Antarctic Waters and the Bloody Pacific where you knew there was a Reef //
  
  19 2
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  October 9, 2024 9:40am
- cmm
  
  White knighting.
  
  See boys have problems too… Nothing to do with DEI…
  
  13 6
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  October 9, 2024 10:36am
  - Mike
    
    Bingo!
    
    3 5
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    October 9, 2024 12:11pm
Grunter

A new law in the U.K. requires chicken owners to register their birds. In protest, British people crashed the website by registering the roasted chickens in their refrigerators because, Cluck You and your over-regulation of backyard birds!
https://reason.com/2024/10/08/brickbat-nobody-here-but-us-chickens/
🤣🤣
28 2
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October 9, 2024 8:42am
- thirteenstars
  
  What a fowl law.
  
  14 0
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  October 9, 2024 10:05am
- AitchW
  
  Grunter, if ever you needed an example of pointless over regulation by a left wing government giddy with power this is it.
  Even if people only registered live birds, who would remember to cancel the registration when old Chicken Licken fell of the perch? Within a few years they’d have a huge and enormously innacurate database, no doubt taking millions of pounds to administer.
  Menawhile they’re cancelling the energy payment for oldies in winter.
  
  13 1
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  October 9, 2024 10:40am
  - Ghost
    
    I’d say it’s more hysteria from the covid days, wanting to track birds for bird flu
    
    6 1
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    October 9, 2024 10:47am
  - kowtow
    
    It’s prolly less govt and more bureaucratic .
    The unelected bureaucrats , as we know from that documentary , Yes Minister , who actually run the gubmint.
    
    8 1
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    October 9, 2024 11:02am
  - John Loveridge
    
    My wife breeds little bantams in our suburban back yard. They tend to be short-lived, and they’re almost infinitely interchangeable. The size of the small flock waxes and wanes continously. Who at the Bureaucracy would know one bantam from another?
    
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    October 9, 2024 7:32pm
- Nobby2
  
  I bet that got all the neighbours tongues clucking.
  
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  October 9, 2024 1:40pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The Biden Admin don’t care about the American people. There is only one thing they want, retain power at all costs, even if that means losing the lives of citizens.
If Harris should win, America will not be a nice place to live. The American Dream will be gone.

https://conservativeadvocacy.com/biden-admin-diverts-1-billion-from-disaster-relief-to-support-illegal-immigrants/?
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October 9, 2024 8:45am
- Close Hen Counters
  
  Good morning Steve ☺️ I couldn’t agree more and hope with every fibre of my body trump gets in! Have you read or watched hillbilly elegy? My rooster and I watched it two nights ago – incredible and incredibly sad. JD’s life is miles apart from Kamala’s middle class family with neighbours who have lovely lawns.
  
  15 6
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  October 9, 2024 9:07am
  - MCōs
    
    Do you remember what sort of lawns Mike Pence’s neighbours had?
    
    7 9
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    October 9, 2024 9:34am
    - wsk12345
      
      Perhaps he didnt talk about it
      
      4 1
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      October 9, 2024 1:22pm
- MCōs
  
  While you squawk about the latest propaganda from some MAGA rag take have a look at the storm as seen from a space station
  https://x.com/dominickmatthew/status/1843679036792549688?s=61&t=yFkzCNMWRCaVt1p5eRxUog
  
  5 13
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  October 9, 2024 9:12am
  - MCōs
    
    Another clip
    https://x.com/wxnb_/status/1843699745300304237?s=61&t=yFkzCNMWRCaVt1p5eRxUog
    
    5 1
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    October 9, 2024 10:14am
- Grunter
  
  I see the Kackling One was on 60 Minutes. When asked why she has changed her mind on so many policies (too many to list), her reply was
  
  “I’m the Vice President of the United States, I travel a lot….”
  
  WTF?
  
  15 3
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  October 9, 2024 9:26am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That is what it is, yip, yip
    
    11 6
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    October 9, 2024 9:49am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Even worse. On the 60 minutes interview CBS have cut an manipulated an entire wordsalad answer she gave about Israel, and replaced it with a completely different answer and facial expressions so new clip or AI?
    
    She was asked about Israel conflict she awkwardly and with many hesitations said : “Well Bill, the work that we have done has resulted in a number of movements in that region by Israel that were very much prompted by or a result of many things including our advocacy for what needs to happen in the region,’ Harris replied.
    
    The new edited clip is answered confidently and says: “‘We are not going to stop pursuing what is necessary for the United States to be clear about where we stand on the need for this war to end,’.
    
    Clip showing original video answer and the new one being shown by cbs here:
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1843664856446316758
    Daily mail article on the edit: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13938177/Kamala-Harris-Israel-word-salad-60-minutes-edited.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=social-twitter_mailonline
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:03am
- Mike
  
  Are the state authorities helping, or are they too busy illegally harassing pro-choice activists?
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:30am
- AitchW
  
  SO while agee that the Biden/Harris government cares not a jot for the American People I’m not convinced that the Trump mob is any better.
  As far as I can see pretty much everyone in American politics is there for their own self interest and is polluted by wealthy pressure groups who contribute vast sums of money to their camapign.
  I really do fear for America after this election. If they elect Harris the economy is stuffed. If they elect Trump they’ll have a president who spends most of his time on the golf course and leaves the running of the country to unelected officials. Not only that, the left will riot, making Jan 6th look like a teddy bear’s party. The usual suspects (LGBTQIA+, pro Palestine, Watermelons, rent a mob) will have a field day looting and burning.
  I have no idea what the solution is. The swamp needs to be drained, filled and concreted over and there is no-one obvious to do it.
  
  3 10
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  October 9, 2024 10:49am
  - Don Beckett
    
    You fail to see what Trump did during his 2016 – 20 presidency – he certainly did NOT spend most of his time on the golf course – he worked most days till the early hours of the morning. His staff were often aghast at how long he worked.
    
    10 6
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    October 9, 2024 11:37am
    - Mike
      
      Rubbish. Hours of each day were blocked out for ‘executive time’ (watching TV). If the staff were ‘aghast’ it would have been at the man considering his tweeting hours (10 pm till 2 am) as ‘work’.
      
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      October 9, 2024 12:16pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        That is pure & utter bullshit.
        
        6 4
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        October 9, 2024 3:12pm
      - Ghost
        
        Here is the link Mike
        
        https://www.axios.com/2019/02/03/donald-trump-private-schedules-leak-executive-time
        
        1 0
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        October 9, 2024 3:16pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Read Michael Lewis (author of The Big Short) – “The Fifth Risk”. Unfortunately it is a book that you have to pay for.
      
      A fairly straight description of how Trump handled (not) the transition.
      
      1 0
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      October 9, 2024 6:11pm
- Dougal10
  
  Harris is a threat to the federation , most states will chose to ignore her.
  
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  October 9, 2024 11:02am
Grunter

All the EV owners in Florida are in a bit of a pickle as they try and escape Hurricane Milton.

Highways congested……

Charging stations full…..

Batteries going flat…..

Cars left on the side of the road…..

Who would have thunk that…..Da!
28 2
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October 9, 2024 8:49am
- Ghost
  
  Well they aren’t the only ones having trouble, petrol stations closed, no fuel
  
  11 2
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  October 9, 2024 9:16am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    I had clients there and they told me yesterday the gas stations in Orlando were out of fuel. Thank God we got them out last night because if this is bad as being speculated you would want as many out of harms way as possible.
    
    7 0
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    October 9, 2024 9:53am
  - cmm
    
    There is a bit of a difference in that someone can give you 20 litres of fuel and you can drive another 200km (OK, maybe only 100km in a F350).
    
    It is amazing to me that people didn’t think things through and have 50litres or more stored.
    
    Many people love to mock the preppers, but those with 200 litres of petrol in their trailer will be in a far better position.
    
    12 3
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    October 9, 2024 10:46am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Petrol goes off. Just going through this with my boat. Hasn’t been used for over 18 months. 130 liters in total that I will dump. Even my lawnmower doesn’t like it. Don’t dare put it in my Prado. Stabiliser and octane boosters will not work. It is now a dark brown. $350 down the drain. Then there are the filters. Then another filter on the motor and clean out the injection system. Suzuki 140hp, four stroke with less than 100 hours on it.
      All happened because of arm nerve surgeries and rotor cuff.
      
      7 1
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      October 9, 2024 12:07pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I believe preppers know all about this and there are recommended additives to stop long term fuel decay.
        
        0 0
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        October 9, 2024 6:28pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        First problem is where will you dump it? Your Prado won’t mind if you blend it in 40-60 (the 40 being the old stuff and maybe the 60 is some 95/98).
        
        Alternatively look for a boat yard with an old tractor used for moving boats round and they will likely take it.
        
        2 0
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        October 9, 2024 6:42pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Plenty of places to dispose of hazardous waste in Auckland Ian
        I reckon he should save it until Nov 5 and have a BIG bonfire
        
        1 1
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        October 9, 2024 7:09pm
fightingtemeraire

On the Manawanui from a US Commentator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR85gqVwbWQ
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October 9, 2024 8:56am
- mogg
  
  That’s a good vid, but nobody has asked the question; why was the ship so high up onto the reef.
  Surely that was not caused by ocean currents or wind conditions, it had to be travelling at speed to have that sort of momentum. There is something very strange about this whole situation.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:54am
  - marcw
    
    Sunk in 30m of water – why were the anchors not dropped if the ship was “drifting”. We are being lied to – yes the engines failed, after they had driven up onto a reef! Initial reports said the depth was thousands of feet deep, and excused no anchors being deployed. Facts have now got in the way of that bs.
    
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    October 9, 2024 11:47am
    - Paulus
      
      Oh, I understand that a plane load of white paint is on its way to Samoa for a senior Naval committee meeting.
      
      4 1
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      October 9, 2024 2:18pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I think there was a high spring/kind tide around the time of the grounding.
    
    4 5
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    October 9, 2024 12:14pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    I thought Collin’s said the ship lost powers, but she did say not sure if after the crash or leading up to . Is it possible the ship was going quite fast then rain out of power making it impossible to avoid
    
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    October 9, 2024 12:23pm
    - Paulus
      
      I had a depth sounder on my small boat too !
      
      2 1
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      October 9, 2024 2:19pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That was worth the watch. Thanks.
  The mis-information out there is incredible. The depth is around 500 feet. When this first happened a depth of 2 KM was reported.
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:10am
  - kowtow
    
    And currently our te meedia paahti are breathlessly pushing the environmental harm angle for all it’s worth , this is the absence of other aspects from the crew etc
    
    But they have also reported that navy divers have said there’s nowt leaking, so why push the environment disaster narrative.
    
    They really are scumbags.
    
    3 2
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    October 9, 2024 11:11am
    - Paulus
      
      Don’t fret there appears to be Third Party Insurance which I suggest will do nothing, as almost certainly inadequate, but the Samoan Economy will benefit hugely from what it will cost, and who pays (us).
      Whoopee for Samoa for some long time.
      
      2 1
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      October 9, 2024 2:22pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Any receiving govt money need to be cut loose from the taxpayer’s purse pronto. They are a partisan waste of space. They are not journalists, but rather propagandists and silly gutter-media. Socially and financially we can not afford to support these institutions.
      
      1 1
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      October 9, 2024 6:51pm
  - Mike
    
    It’s either yet another elaborate conspiracy or, just possibly, early information about a disaster might be inaccurate, confused or contradictory.
    
    6 3
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    October 9, 2024 12:21pm
  - DimChappie
    
    No the ship is lying 30m deep, the 500ft he mentions on the video is something else. https://www.nzdf.mil.nz/media-centre/news/rnzn-divers-assess-sunken-ship-in-samoa/
    
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    October 9, 2024 7:30pm
Master Mariner

The vessel was designed and built to stop any power failure from occuring in the first place due to being a Dive support / Sub Sea vessel.

There is speculation Bio Diesel “May” have contributed to single point of failure. However speculation.

Regardless, Lets hope NZ Diplomats are working overtime negotiating with Samoan Authorities because NZ will be looking at a potential Billion dollar wreck removal long term and medium term paying for immediate clean up in the middle of know where.

https://gcaptain.com/new-zealand-navy-assessing-environmental-impact-from-manawanui-sinking/

And a few interesting facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR85gqVwbWQ
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October 9, 2024 8:58am
- peterwn
  
  The top priority will be getting the fuel unloaded from the ship as was the case with the Rena. The Navy is no doubt seeking a suitable tanker and ancillary equipment.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:41am
  - Ghost
    
    I would expect that salvage company will be doing that, not the navy
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:48am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Media saying there is 960 tonnes of diesel, Collin’s said there was oil, Diesel, hydraulic oil and urea. Some roll say why urea, I think that stuff they use in trucks to stop emissions from burning is urea
    
    3 1
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    October 9, 2024 12:25pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Urea is used in scrubbers to clean up emmissions.
      My current [h]as Urea tanks.
      
      5 0
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      October 9, 2024 1:39pm
- Sparrow
  
  As having left the sea more than 50 years ago I am not up with all the latest maritime changes such as vessels having block box’s. On some of the Union Company slow greens we had only a magnetic steering compass. God! a gyro compass far too modern!!! So what do these marine black box’s monitor. Seek the advice of Master Mariner and others. Curious. Thanks
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:07am
  - Master Mariner
    
    VDR , commonly known as voyage data recorders.
    Essentially a ships black box.
    Has to record 24 hrs prior to incident.
    Records everything. Conversations, video and all ship engine movements and positioning ie chart info.
    No escaping the information it contains.
    
    9 0
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    October 9, 2024 11:58am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  MM, when loss of power is stated, does that mean mechanical power or electric power?
  Seems to be a grey area atm.
  
  5 2
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  October 9, 2024 10:15am
  - Taieri
    
    This ship had four main generator engines driving four generators, which in turn supplied two electrical propulsion motors and 3 bow thrusters.
    So, the loss of power in this context probably means the loss of mechanical power, i.e. the failure of all generator engines at the same time.
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:21am
    - AitchW
      
      Taieri is it likely that all 4 engines would fail at once?
      What would cause such a catastrophic failure?
      
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      October 9, 2024 10:52am
      - Taieri
        
        Very unlikely but possible. Fuel? But that’s unlikely to result in such a sudden failure, there is always some sort of warning.
        
        This ship was DP2. That means that there’s 100% propulsion redundancy. SB propulsion is fully separated from PS propulsion, including fuel supply, main electrical switchboard supply and so on. It should be possible to retain propulsion and electrical power supply even if 3 out of 4 main generator engines were to fail.
        
        3 0
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        October 9, 2024 11:28am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Master Mariner mentioned “bio diesel” may have contributed.
        Speculation he said.
        
        2 3
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        October 9, 2024 12:20pm
      - peterwn
        
        Could be a ‘common cause’ failure within the auxiliary equipment which was either overlooked at the design stage or considered too expensive to duplicate. In other words – Murphy’s Law strikes again.
        In a USA city the Police Station lost power and so the 911 emergency number was down. There was a standby generator, but its fuel pump was powered from the 120 volt mains.
        
        4 1
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        October 9, 2024 12:23pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Dodgy fuel? Presumably all four diesel engines run off the same fuel tank.
        
        1 1
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        October 9, 2024 12:29pm
      - Master Mariner
        
        Shit fuel. Possibly.?
        
        3 0
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        October 9, 2024 12:41pm
      - MCōs
        
        Has anyone asked Lisa Carrington for her opinion yet?
        
        1 5
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        October 9, 2024 1:19pm
      - Taieri
        
        Could be a ‘common cause’ failure within the auxiliary equipment which was either overlooked at the design stage or considered too expensive to duplicate.
        ————-
        
        No. When she was still a civilian vessel she would have to undergo and pass Failure Mode Effect Analysis tests. FMEA tests are very comprehensive and identify potential failures in the system(s) and its components and their effect on the rest of the system. These tests are done periodically and are condition of retaining DP notation. I’d be very surprised if the RNZN dispensed with all that when they took over this ship.
        
        As for emergency generator, there certainly was one fitted. It’s completely independent and will supply essential consumers for specified period via its own dedicated switchboard. No electric fuel pumps there. It’s got its own dedicated fuel tank and the engine is usually fed by gravity. Again, this is supposed to be periodically tested, on my last ship this was done weekly.
        
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        October 9, 2024 1:55pm
      - Paulus
        
        Forgot to fully top up the tanks last time when getting fuel.
        
        1 1
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        October 9, 2024 2:25pm
    - Taieri
      
      Presumably all four diesel engines run off the same fuel tank
      ———-
      
      No. DP vessels are required to have separate fuel tanks, each feeding the propulsion on one side only. Any crossover connections must be shut when in DP mode.
      
      If there’s dodgy fuel on board it would have been pretty apparent well before. Even stratification of certain blended fuels does not result in sudden and instant engine shutdowns. Same with bacterial contamination, it will clog filters but there’s usually enough time to clean them and the affected fuel can be treated. I’m not sure what was the detailed arrangement on board there, but would think that there’s at least one set of dual coalescing fuel filters for each generator engine. In addition there would be another set of dual fine filters for each engine and at least one (possibly two) centrifugal fuel purifier for the whole plant. That’s a standard set up for the majority of vessels of this type.
      
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      October 9, 2024 2:06pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Maybe it snagged a fishing net around the propellers.
    
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    October 9, 2024 4:51pm
- Taieri
  
  And a few interesting facts.
  ————
  
  The prevailing weather and tide in particular.
  
  And the course plot – 16.44 min. Very strange.
  What was that ship actually doing there at the time?
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:21am
  - Burtland
    
    and with 40 passengers on board
    
    2 1
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    October 9, 2024 11:33am
    - Paulus
      
      Fare paying passengers were they, or illegal immigrants trying to be landed.
      
      1 2
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      October 9, 2024 2:26pm
      - Ghost
        
        scientists and foreign military personnel
        
        3 0
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        October 9, 2024 2:31pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    VDR , commonly known as voyage data recorders.
    Essentially a ships black box.
    Has to record 24 hrs prior to incident.
    Records everything. Conversations, video and all ship engine movements and positioning ie chart info.
    No escaping the information it contains.
    
    3 0
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    October 9, 2024 11:59am
    - Sparrow
      
      Many thanks Master Mariner. Wow Big Brother on the Bridge. Christ glad it was not around when I was at sea video and sound recording. Mind boggling. This should tell us true story
      
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      October 9, 2024 1:11pm
      - Master Mariner
        
        Indeed Sparrow, All under the guise of “learning from mistakes” mantra //.
        
        1 0
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        October 9, 2024 1:42pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Bloody phone. Meant too reply too sparow.
    Taieri, I find it incredulous of engine room operated a split Bus Bar.
    Ie duel redundancy.
    However it is the Navy🙄
    
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    October 9, 2024 12:03pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    There really seems to be a coverup in action.
    What is wrong with the ‘truth’?
    
    5 5
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    October 9, 2024 12:22pm
    - Nobby2
      
      All the crew will have been instructed not to talk to anyone about what happened. The Court of enquiry is set up to uncover the truth. Therefore your coverup comment is your conspiracy theory, why don’t you wait till all the facts come out before going off half cocked.
      
      5 1
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      October 9, 2024 2:11pm
      - Taieri
        
        All the crew will have been instructed not to talk to anyone about what happened
        ———
        
        Normal procedure. Not just following an emergency (or a disaster). And just as applicable in a civilian life.
        
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        October 9, 2024 2:25pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I will ask again, “what is wrong with the truth?”
        “What happened?”
        “Oh boss, I fucked up.”
        
        2 3
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        October 9, 2024 4:47pm
      - Jethrod
        
        No. Kiwiblog runs their own COI !
        Plenty of experts here !
        
        1 0
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        October 9, 2024 8:18pm
  - Keith White
    
    DEI-voyaging.
    
    0 1
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    October 9, 2024 9:01pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Ivanka Trump distributes food, supplies, Starlink units to NC families following storms.
Elon Musk has come to the party with Starlink Terminals. They work free.
Ivanka teamed up with CityServe to distribute food donated by Planet Harvest. Her 10 year of son is with her helping.
Joe Biden stated 100 troops are being sent to respond. Um Joe, when did the hurricane first hit? You knew then help would be needed. Joe the do nothing President.

https://www.rsbnetwork.com/news/ivanka-trump-distributes-food-supplies-starlink-units-to-nc-families-following-storms/
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October 9, 2024 9:02am
- cmm
  
  Meanwhile Florida:
  * Sorted out their own state within 48 hours including building bridges, clearing roads and reconnecting millions of houses.
  * Then sent their state resources to help other states.
  * Have gone back to Florida to await the next one.
  * Will fix that and soon after be out fixing other states.
  
  Moral of the story is smaller government is more effective than large. Don’t depend on the federal.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:10am
  - MCōs
    
    If Florida was a country it would be about the sixtieth biggest in the world by population so it should be able to look after itself
    
    9 1
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    October 9, 2024 9:19am
    - cmm
      
      Yup, but they are also part of the USA and pay taxes to the USA etc.
      They have learned not to depend on the Federal government and avoid it where they can.
      
      Compare that with California who are far less capable as a state, but then have to cope with very different emergencies (earthquakes vs hurricanes).
      
      9 2
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      October 9, 2024 10:54am
      - Mike
        
        Unusually for a red state, Florida contributes more to the federal budget than it receives.
        
        1 4
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        October 9, 2024 12:26pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        California is a basket case. Look at the Representatives.
        No-hopers.
        
        4 4
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        October 9, 2024 12:30pm
      - Mike
        
        Yes Steve, California’s congressional delegation hasn’t been the same since Devin Nunes retired to concentrate on the defamation suit against his cow.
        
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        October 9, 2024 2:31pm
    - kowtow
      
      Yes , like Nigeria , Sudan , Ethiopia , Dr Congo ,Uganda,Yemen , Angola etc
      
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      October 9, 2024 11:20am
  - kowtow
    
    Now now , the Feds evacuated all their people from the Louisiana superdome , the citizens , not so much.
    
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    October 9, 2024 11:16am
- Scott
  
  Kamala Harris sits down for an interview on 60 Minutes. It does not go well. She seems nervous. She seems very uncertain. Her answers lack any substance.
  Hugh Hewitt in a 9 minute video highlights some of the main highlights from the interview –
  
  https://youtu.be/oogojbMwbKQ?si=YhH6U7XkGZe-ig1v
  I think what people need to know is that even if elected Kamala won’t be the president. She’ll occupy the office but she’s really a front person for the globalists. In the same way Biden has never really been the president.
  
  I’m not sure who is really running that country but the American media have no curiosity in finding out. Maybe it’s Obama?
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:16am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Agree.
    If Ms Harris is elected, she will just be the person standing up the front saying what she is told to say.
    The real power will be the faceless bureaucrats in the back office, aided by the media and a few of the electeds (past and present) who supposedly know something of relevance.
    Hope the tele -promoter doesn’t break down too often, like it did recently. Poor Ms Harris didn’t cope.
    
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    October 9, 2024 9:53am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is Obama wanting his 4th term.
    He has been very quiet, that to me is suspicious.
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:18am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I like the first comment on that Youtube video.
    “Nauseating, she should join The View”
    
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    October 9, 2024 10:35am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That would be 1000 troops. My typos!
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:16am
Matt Long

Human rights organizations that are anti semetic.
Red Cross. https://x.com/K0sher_C0ckney/status/1843611615880515782
Amnesty International.
https://x.com/aziz0nomics/status/1842926479304200629
Every UN organisation, but particularly UNRWA
Canada’s “hate speech” Tzar confirms their purpose is to shut down dissent from progressive causes, not stop actual hate speech.
https://x.com/AmazingZoltan/status/1843359845044629879
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October 9, 2024 9:04am
Grunter

Cranmer reports

“It is, therefore, highly possible, that HMNZS Manawanui was performing duties connected with CHOGM and the imminent arrival of King Charles at the Sinelai Resort. That point may never be officially confirmed”

CHOGM is being held at Apia from 21 October and the local press have already confirmed that King Charles III will be staying at the Sinelai Resort when he arrives on 25 October to participate in CHOGM.

The Sinelai Resort is about 1.5km from where the ship sank on Sunday.

On Monday evening, the HMS Tamar, a 90 metre British Royal Navy patrol vessel could be seen from the Sinelai. The Tamar had arrived in Suva last Wednesday evening, spending two days in port before departing for Samoa on Friday.

Now this of course might be a red herring – but why wouldn’t the MSM investigate down this line of inquiry? Seems like a plausible scenario.
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October 9, 2024 9:05am
G152

wise people surrender when they see the war is unwinnable.
Fools never learn from history
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October 9, 2024 9:07am
- gravedodger
  
  Err Not imho G152, The United Kingdom in late May had no chance to win the war with Germany standing alone with the commonwealth in late May 1940 when The UK PM out maneuvered his war Cabinet with Foreign secretary Halifax wanting to seek Peace terms. Churchill went to the outer cabinet and after a briefing was given a standing ovation which denied Halifax and Chamberlain with appeasement as their one last chance to hand western Europe to Hitler.
  France surrendered, how did that work out for them particularly for french jews and young men cashiered to work for German armaments production .
  
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  October 9, 2024 11:40am
  - Ian Boag
    
    As I recall reading about this, Treasury pointed out that even a short war would completely blow away the UK’s foreign reserves. I think that happened around late 1941. Churchill said only a long war was winnable and of course the Americans would have to fund it. Which they did.
    
    End of the war – UK was stony broke and then some. In spades – and decided they needed to spend money they didn’t have to develop their own nuclear weapons ….
    
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    October 9, 2024 6:28pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      And the NHS
      [Mod – unnecessary]
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_National_Health_Service
      
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      October 9, 2024 7:05pm
Bridgenag

you can’t handle the truth (so we’ll make some up for you)
dispatches from the fascism follies files A must watch video of MSM manipulation

“they all know that kamala cannot answer simple questions without a script. they all know that we cannot be allowed to see her as she is lest we recoil in horror at the astonishing incoherence. you don’t edit this out by accident. perhaps once there was a media who would have shown us the truth of this because truth was their pole-star, but if such were ever so, it is so no longer. these are the other guys. they guys who lie. the guys who put their thumb on the scale.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/boriquagato/p/you-cant-handle-the-truth-so-well?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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October 9, 2024 9:07am
- All_on_Red
  
  More info here on CBS editing Harris’s Interview
  https://hotair.com/david-strom/2024/10/08/60-minutes-edits-harris-train-wreck-answer-on-israel-to-make-it-sound-coherent-n3795551
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:19am
- Mummy
  
  We accidentally had the TV news on last night and caught part of an interview with her at St Andrew’s air force base rabbitting on about the American people and Helene. She kept looking down to her right and at one point we could see someone’s hand holding an open iPad. Even when she’s incoherent she needs to read it.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:41am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Fake news Mummy. Move on.
    
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    October 9, 2024 11:25am
  - MCōs
    
    Oh you “accidentally had the TV news on”
    How many times have I read that on this forum or something similar?
    
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    October 9, 2024 1:45pm
Kiwiguy

I started listening to that Maori debate last night.
As soon as that Bradbury idiot repeatedly called people ‘comrades’, I turned it off.
I’ve never deliberately listened to or watched him before; and I sure won’t be ever again. What a twat.
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October 9, 2024 9:09am
- rouppe
  
  He is a twat.
  
  I grief through the intro to hear the other two.
  
  At the end he went rogue and went on and on about his daughter being in a Maori immersion school. Like who cares how he bring up his children? It had nothing to do with the topic at hand.
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:59am
  - quarterpack
    
    Yeah what an odd man. Mentioned his kid took part in presentation where the kids hung themselves with white ribbons to represent the death of their language. I would have liked Seymor or Grant to have mentioned that cedeing of soverenty was indeed a rational move by the cheifs, given the situation at the time. (proliferation of muskets creating an imbalance of power, it was a time were you could be murdered in your own bed without any formalities) Perhaps the whole idea of trying to figure out what the individual intentions were on that particular day is an excercise in futility anyhow, especially considering the two different versions of ti tiriti
    
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    October 9, 2024 11:52am
    - Paulus
      
      I think that you should be looking now at the many new Moko designed mothers of Maori children, prticularly the young girls, and how they are being raised, as it is only the old men who are there to be told when to stand up, and shut up.
      (not necessarily just Maori old men).
      Universities now predominently for women have a lot to answer for, and it will not get better as they are winning the many small Maori battles and eventually the War in short years to come.
      
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      October 9, 2024 2:36pm
- cmm
  
  It is probably safe to say that if someone gets a platform on TV in NZ then they are activists.
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:50am
  - kowtow
    
    These days an awful lot appear to be narcissists .
    
    Constantly injecting self , totally unprofessional , and something there was an awful lot less of in the past .
    
    5 1
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    October 9, 2024 11:24am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Kiwiguy – Take this lesson of your life from the great Cullen.
  
  Never ever bother if Bradbury is associated with anything.
  
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  October 9, 2024 11:26am
- Jack5
  
  Bradbury, now about 50, was nicknamed “Bomber” when he was a student magazine scribbler.
  
  Wikipedia says “Bomber” described his bombastic personality.
  
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  October 9, 2024 11:55am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    And still acts like a student magazine scribbler.
    
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    October 9, 2024 6:54pm
Matt Long

NZ Medical Council forced Doctor’s to promote the covid vax and not mention risks or face over the top disciplinary action.
“In September 2021,” Richard Aston testified, “the first wave of complaints about doctors, COVID, vaccines, and the prescribing of Ivermectin came to MCNZ. I was shocked at the different approach Council members had toward these complaints, compared with their normal thorough and fair approach.”
https://centrist.co.nz/exclusive-insider-reveals-nz-medical-councils-hardball-tactics-during-covid/?_kx=gt_8S35YimFGdYtYnfV0LJWIrseBatGYoTFrOTWj2qH3JoHS_GfaS99gstsQwRNU.VYfxNg
Requires registration, but not subscription to view.
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October 9, 2024 9:12am
- MCōs
  
  Call themselves ‘centrist’ which means they’re anything but and requires registration so they can send emails for the rest of your life no matter how often you tell them to stop
  
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  October 9, 2024 9:27am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Give them a simplelogin email address 😎
    
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    October 9, 2024 6:30pm
- Zero Kindness
  
  Doesn’t require registration, if the page asks for a password use centrist2024. Worth a read.
  
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  October 9, 2024 11:35am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

A good explanation of why the Waitangi Tribunal uses the rogue James Freeman version of the Treaty of Waitangi.
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October 9, 2024 9:18am
Bridgenag

The VSRF Misinformation Superspreader Library Raffle
A wealth of knowledge at your fingertips

https://open.substack.com/pub/stevekirsch/p/the-vsrf-misinformation-superspreader?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

“Mckeekitty
We are in the fourth and final turning. 11 minutes.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xeVyfiP0cLk“
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October 9, 2024 9:32am
cas

Here is my observation for the day.

Banana trees are very prolific breeders.
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October 9, 2024 9:37am
- MCōs
  
  My wife planted one out the front and now there’s about six.
  Took awhile, but we’ve had a big bunch of a hundred or so bananas off the original plant. Weren’t too bad, just a bit overwhelming.
  Also galangal and artichoke which are edible root plants that take a life of their own.
  
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  October 9, 2024 10:34am
  - Jack5
    
    So the top of the North Island’s gone bananas?🍌
    
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    October 9, 2024 11:57am
  - Surely Knott
    
    The good thing about banana trees is that they are also delicious for livestock which keeps the spread under control. The animals like the bananas but they also like the stalks, leaves and flowers. So you will not have trouble with them spreading if you have animals.
    
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    October 9, 2024 12:52pm
    - MCōs
      
      We have a section that’s bigger than a postage stamp, but not much, so no room for animals
      It used to be a regular sized section, but the previous owners flogged most of it off and built this house, which takes up almost all the rest.
      I may have to knock down a wall to appease King Banana
      
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      October 9, 2024 1:39pm
      - Jack5
        
        A song to make the planter’s work day go faster, Cossie:
        
        https://youtu.be/YO7M0Hx_1D8?si=0cO0SvRCvWjnTcX6
        
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        October 9, 2024 2:33pm
    - Nobby2
      
      Not if the animals are guinea pigs, cats or dogs.
      
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      October 9, 2024 2:16pm
BeaB

So no leaking oil from the wreck but TVNZ still had to give us film of a turtle struggling to survive in the oily debris.
What makes me think we are in for months of bs from everyone involved?
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October 9, 2024 10:36am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  BeaB – because it is Luxon’s fault, TVNZ is turning the knife in.
  
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  October 9, 2024 11:28am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  They said some oil may have spilled at the point of contact, but the hull apparently has not been ruptured
  
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  October 9, 2024 12:31pm
  - MCōs
    
    I’m no expert on these things, but if there’s no hole why did the ship sink?
    I guess I’m best to ignore all the speculation and see what the court of inquiry comes up with.
    
    2 1
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    October 9, 2024 5:35pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Because the fuel tanks aren’t leaking but elsewhere in the hull is, big-time?
      
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      October 9, 2024 6:33pm
Grunter

The Kackling One has a Hurricane plan….

“It is our lowest income communities and our communities of color that are most impacted by these extreme conditions and impacted by issues that are not of their own making.

And so we have to address this in a way that is about giving resources based on equity, understanding that we fight for equality, but we also need to fight for equity, understanding not everyone starts out at the same place. And if we want people to be in an equal place, sometimes we have to take into account those disparities and do that work.”

Sounds kinda Marxist and Racist…..
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October 9, 2024 11:37am
70andstilllearning

Oh dear – lets not accept we’ve lost ranking therefore gone downhill – we’ll spin it another way as an improvement!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-otago-tumble-in-just-released-world-university-rankings/F5HHYWPNFBFXPC7YZV2HYZMKIA/

“In a statement, the University of Auckland pointed out there had been an increase in the number of universities being ranked, from 1907 to 2092, meaning its relative position has improved given the growth in the number of universities evaluated.

“Waipapa Taumata Rau, University of Auckland, now sits in the top 7.3% of universities in the world, up slightly from being in the top 7.9% in 2024″ it said.”
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October 9, 2024 12:33pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Do they understand how percentages work?
  
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  October 9, 2024 12:41pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  So a fall in ranking is really a rise?
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/530242/three-new-zealand-universities-drop-in-international-rankings
  
  Clowns!
  
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  October 9, 2024 12:57pm
  - mandk
    
    Yes, they are clowns.
    
    The Maori name is stupid. Put it into a translator and it comes out as “sheet level water”.
    
    And making all students undertake a Maori course will do much less than nothing to improve the university’s standing.
    
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    October 9, 2024 1:08pm
    - greybeard
      
      Imagine what would happen in Australia if they made it compulsory to learn the aboriginal language(s) upon entry to uni.
      
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      October 9, 2024 3:34pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Please, don’t give clowns ideas.
        
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        October 9, 2024 6:34pm
  - cmm
    
    Well it kinda is…
    
    If you come second in a class of 5, then move to a bigger school and are now 4th in a class of 50 have you gone down or up?
    
    Of course the truth is more complicated. The increase in the population of universities being scored will mainly be coming from adding a bunch of universities you wouldn’t really like to be compared with.
    
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    October 9, 2024 2:26pm
Swifty

I would suggest that there are many of our University staff who couldn’t care less that their institutions are falling in such ratings.

Not all, but many.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-otago-tumble-in-just-released-world-university-rankings/F5HHYWPNFBFXPC7YZV2HYZMKIA/

It is of no importance to them one bit.

Their priority is not research excellence or to be well regarded internationally – rather it is purely to utilise their institution in the pursuit of their political goals and to ensure the student body is appropriately indoctrinated with those same goals.

Nothing else matters.

I level the same charge at our primary and secondary establishments and their supportive unions.
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October 9, 2024 1:33pm
- cmm
  
  The amount of real research happening in universities is plummeting anyway.
  
  There was a time when universities were doing important research in engineering, science and such. I don’t really see that much any more.
  
  I think a lot of that is just due to the way complexity has increased – not in technology, but pretty much in all STEM fields.
  
  40 years ago (when I was doing post grad) in computer science and electronics as well as a lot of other engineering fields it used to be that a graduate coming out of university knew a significant amount of the body of industry knowledge. A post grad could do meaningful research.
  
  That’s not the case any more. Now you need a good 10 years in a specialised field to be able to contribute to real research in any meaningful way. That’s now happening in industry academia is no longer the place for that.
  
  NZ universities seem to be falling over themselves to drive away top talent. Without that they are stuffed.
  
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  October 9, 2024 2:11pm
- Surely Knott
  
  Auckland Uni drops. Most scores held up pretty well. It’s score that dropped most was “International Outlook” where it’s dropped from a high of 94.3 in 2023 to 88.5 in 2025.
  
  Is their new compulsory Maori view and principles indoctrination class which is being introduced in 2025 dropping our work uni rankings?
  
  https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/university-auckland
  
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  October 9, 2024 2:47pm
  - John Loveridge
    
    Indirectly, I guess, by discouraging bright talent from attending.
    
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    October 9, 2024 4:05pm
waikatosinger

Biculturalism has inoculated us against multiculturalism, which is a worse disease.
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October 9, 2024 2:25pm
- Inandout
  
  waik, there are 55,000 Muslims in NZ and goodness knows how many Asians and Indians.
  
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  October 9, 2024 2:38pm
  - waikatosinger
    
    Yes, and they all have to learn about the treaty and confirm to our society – or at least the Maori aspects thereof.
    
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    October 9, 2024 3:57pm
    - MCōs
      
      No they don’t
      
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      October 9, 2024 5:19pm
      - MCōs
        
        I know a number of Thais who live here
        Nobody has ever said to me they have to learn about the Treaty or alter their lifestyle to conform to our society (whatever that means)
        Vice versa in Thailand
        
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        October 9, 2024 6:22pm
MCōs

This afternoon I’m watching the San Diego Padres play a home game of baseball against the LA Dodgers
San Diego metro area is about three million people, double Auckland, and Petco Park where the Padres are based is about the same capacity as Eden Park.
They play about 80-90 home games a season with an average attendance of 40k.
Very rarely does Eden Park get more than half that number along to any of the 20-30 games of anything
Maybe Kiwis are just not interested in rugby.
What have the Warriors cottoned onto that they can fill Mt Smart every game while lingering round the bottom of the table?
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October 9, 2024 2:42pm
- greybeard
  
  I often wonder how Warriors’ fans can afford to attend so many of their games.
  
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  October 9, 2024 3:38pm
  - MCōs
    
    There’s ten games at Mt Smart next year. You can buy a season ticket with a reserved seat in the better location for $339 or take your luck in the cheap seats for $199 if it’s your first time.
    It’s not an elitist sport and they know if they charge top dollar people won’t pay.
    
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    October 9, 2024 5:16pm
Jack5

The Gumboot Friday project runs into problems with the Auditor-General, John Ryan.

He has has criticised the Government’s “unusual and inconsistent” procurement process in giving $24 million to Mike King’s Gumboot Friday project.

It looks like Mental Health Minister Doocey hasn’t crossed t’s and dotted i’s to State business standard.

Controversy was always going to come whenth our mental hospitals jammed full and short of nurses and psychiatrists, and when the newly reinforced have police side-stepped away from a role helping psychiatric referrals.

But it’s on State audit standards that the project has met its first trouble.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/gumboot-friday-unusual-and-inconsistent-process-to-justify-24m-contract-auditor-general-finds/Z5GSB327IJGCHAYCZNRBVR6N3A/
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October 9, 2024 3:01pm
- Ghost
  
  Money well spent. Unlike the $1.9 billion labour ~~lost~~ put into mental health
  
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  October 9, 2024 3:19pm
- Mike
  
  The auditor-general, like the ombudsman, has been largely ignored by governments for over 30 years now. Time to abolish these relics of imagined parliamentary oversight of, and influence on, the government.
  
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  October 9, 2024 6:45pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/culture/350445451/kiri-allan-reveals-striking-new-puhoro-tattoo
Dear God……
( sorry folks, it IS rather nauseating).
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October 9, 2024 3:31pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Thanks greybeard but Stuff and I do not have a relationship and I will never go back….that said I can imagine it is full of fawning and flatulance of sychophancy about a tatt.
  
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  October 9, 2024 3:39pm
- Ghost
  
  Well on a positive, I don’t have to buy dinner tonight, strangely i’m not hungry anymore
  
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  October 9, 2024 3:58pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Yes, it’s hard to unsee that.
    
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    October 9, 2024 5:04pm
- John Loveridge
  
  Quite a saggy old butt. Almost as bad as mine. Not improved by the tats. Bit of attention-seeking, perhaps?
  
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  October 9, 2024 4:02pm
- Swifty
  
  I say good on her and I wish her well.
  
  I think Kiri Allan was pushed too high, too soon and too fast and it all became too much for her. Christ, she was barely an MP and suddenly she was our Minister of Justice. Her experience was a lesson for political parties who care to learn from that experience.
  
  Labour had promoted her as a DEI bright shining star, while crossing their fingers behind their back that she’d handle it all. Unfortunately she couldn’t and didn’t and crashed to the ground, very publicly, in a great screaming wreck.
  
  As a result I can’t find it in me to regard her with any of the loathing I hold for some other Labour MPs. The great charlatan Ardern, the cynical and useless Hipkins, the reckless and deceitful Robertson, the smarmy and useless Sepuloni, the arrogant but bungling Twyford, the useless squawking Tinetti and Verrall, the completely dishonest and bent Jackson, the succession of completely out of their depth police ministers.
  
  These are the ones who promised us the world and delivered us a terrible mess. That their policies and capabilities were superior to National’s but in fact destroyed our achievements in education, health, crime, nationhood, equality, the list just goes on and on – and who now tell us that the Coalition are doing a terrible job and that Labour would do a better one.
  
  Do they think we’re stupid? Do they think we’ve lost our memories? Do they think we were asleep 2017-23?
  
  I don’t recall ever seeing the arrogance coupled with failure with Allan that I see and saw with the others mentioned.
  
  Others will correct me if I’ve overlooked sins she committed, I’m sure.
  
  But until they do I can only feel a bit of sympathy for Allan and hope that she carves out a niche for herself in some other field. I know she’s been doing some legal work but I’ve no idea how that’s going for her.
  
  As for the others, the sooner they leave politics the better for the country. They shouldn’t worry though, I’m sure Otago or one of the other Universities will create well paid jobs for them.
  
  That’s my view anyway.
  
  (NB – I haven’t overlooked her criticising RNZ over their handling of her then partner Mani Dunlop, that was very wrong of her, but as I said that was in her self-destruct phase.)
  
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  October 9, 2024 5:14pm
  - Ghost
    
    She was a victim of the Ardern government. They knew she was struggling, overloaded with work. I think she never really had the chance to recover from her cancer, came back and buried herself in too much work with little support
    
    5 2
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    October 9, 2024 5:32pm
    - Swifty
      
      I agree.
      
      3 0
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      October 9, 2024 5:47pm
    - MCōs
      
      There was a lot more to it than that, involving other aspects of her life.
      People in general are humans and there’s a lot of unwanted vitriol comes your way if you’re in the public eye particularly if you’re a woman particularly if you’re a Māori as well, or an immigrant . . . . .
      
      2 6
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      October 9, 2024 5:58pm
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        How do you know that Maori women receive any more vitriol than anyone else in the public eye? Do you remember how much vitriol John Key got? (I always detested the guy, but I couldn’t help noticing some of the vitriol).
        
        4 2
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        October 9, 2024 7:08pm
    - Taieri
      
      She was a victim of the Ardern government.
      ————
      
      Grow up! She was a victim of herself. She’s supposed to be an adult. What’s all this “support” shit? She’s an MP, a senior government minister and a potential Prime Minister. Someone who presumes to tell us how we all should live. And she needs a “support”?
      
      9 3
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      October 9, 2024 7:03pm
      - Ghost
        
        Just because they are mp’s doesn’t mean they don’t need support. Lots of adults in high pressure jobs actually turn to support when they need it, and make sure the support is there when they do need it.
        
        It was very obvious that she was not coping and having problems. Her party, her boss should of been showing leadership with that
        
        Someone truly does need to grow up, but it’s not me.
        
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        October 9, 2024 8:37pm
  - Swifty
    
    One thing I’d add though.
    
    If it was a National Justice Minister who pranged their car pissed and legged it before subsequently resigning, I am certain Stuff would refer to them forever after as ‘the disgraced former Minister’.
    
    Not so with Lefty MPs I notice and again with Allan today.
    
    Funny that.
    
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    October 9, 2024 5:57pm
  - John Loveridge
    
    Fair call, Swifty.
    
    4 0
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    October 9, 2024 7:44pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  You should have put a warning on that!
  I too have been put off my tea as I cannot unsee that.
  
  6 1
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  October 9, 2024 5:17pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Nipples are missing. Must be a photoshop.
  
  3 5
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  October 9, 2024 5:41pm
  - Ghost
    
    If you have nipples on your butt you need to see a doctor
    
    6 1
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    October 9, 2024 5:58pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      What? You mean implants?
      I am sure there are those who would want that.
      
      2 4
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      October 9, 2024 6:06pm
  - MCōs
    
    Should have gone to Specsavers
    
    5 0
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    October 9, 2024 6:02pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Enhances them for the screen lickers MCos
      
      0 4
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      October 9, 2024 6:07pm
- Scooter
  
  Reminds me of that old song…
  
  https://youtu.be/nf670orHKcA?si=vCQBkLnUu-U8OMIR
  
  1 1
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  October 9, 2024 7:03pm
Ghost

Sounds like a really good book. I can only imagine ardern’s book will be along the same lines

The Achievements of Kamala Harris
7 2
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October 9, 2024 4:55pm
- greybeard
  
  Similar, but many more pages.
  
  4 2
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  October 9, 2024 4:58pm
Its only I

Little wonder King Trumty the grifter keeps fleecing his flock.

https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-reports/trumps-91-criminal-charges-and-where-they-stand/#table

If that was anyone other than the Felon Trump it would be disqualifying… and that’s including sane washing his mental decline, obesity at his very old age and what ever it is attracting flies…Perhaps its whatever is making his ass jealous of his mouth?
4 6
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October 9, 2024 5:36pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Over there, in the corner. Put your handcuffs on please, so others don’t have to come close.
  He is a nutter, in mental decline, (insert democrat shit here…)
  
  3 3
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  October 9, 2024 6:12pm
  - Mike
    
    I keep wondering if he could still ‘pass’ a dementia screening test: “person, man, woman, camera, TV.”
    
    2 3
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    October 9, 2024 6:50pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Dunno
      You could be right but maybe we should leave ‘Its only I’ to the professionals who examine nutters?
      
      1 0
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      October 9, 2024 11:21pm
Swifty

And people wonder why trust in our institutions plummeted under Labour.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sQF0egCLrbE

COLFO on the CHC massacre coronial enquiry.

What a disgrace.
4 2
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October 9, 2024 7:01pm
- Swifty
  
  Labour and the Police maligned, scapegoated and punished a completely innocent New Zealand community for reasons of political expediency and to cover their own arses.
  
  It’s a bloody scandal!
  
  4 1
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  October 9, 2024 7:46pm
rouppe

Oh, now we know what Kiri Allen has been up to…

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/kiri-allan-reveals-new-puhoro-ta-moko-on-instagram/BQBEUITLZFHOHK3MNTMIWEFL6U/
3 1
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October 9, 2024 7:40pm
Swifty

Fundamental dishonesty from CBS and 60 Minutes:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EmFl8VIgHJk
3 2
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October 9, 2024 7:43pm
- Inandout
  
  Swifty, yes and I am glad this amateurish doctoring has been shown far and wide. I still fear the millions of illegals will tip the scales against Trump. They weren’t let in for no reason at all.
  
  3 2
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  October 9, 2024 9:03pm
Quail

Anyone seen the latest disastrous economic news re Government spending.?To be fair it is mostly a legacy caused problem but a balanced Government budget appears a long way off.
So inflation will remain as an extra tax for the foreseeable future.
Playing with the OCR is not going to help .
Real productivity is the only hope but with our export industries collapsing ,meat works closing .wool brokers disappearing and not enough power to run now closed timber mills there is no hope of exports saving NZ.
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October 11, 2024 1:14am

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