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October 6, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 06 October 2024

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General Debate

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NeverMindTheBollocks

Not a good week for women in the Navy.

http://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350441622/crew-abandon-ship-liferafts-after-nz-navy-vessel-runs-aground-samoa

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/top-naval-officer-under-investigation-ship-has-new-acting-commander
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October 6, 2024 8:01am
- Mike
  
  Hah. Just won a bet!
  
  4 8
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  October 6, 2024 8:13am
  - Ghost
    
    Congrats Mike, according to Otto you’re over the target with a lot of comments today. Well done
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:41am
- Keith White
  
  DEI: Didn’t Earn It.
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:28am
  - Mike
    
    And doubled my money with the early reference to ‘DEI’.
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:28am
    - David Garrett
      
      What a sad life you must have, Mike with many names…having bets with fellow lefties on what will or won’t appear on a blog which targets an audience which is the polar opposite of you and your mates; a blog in which you are regarded as something akin to a bad smell. I am so glad my life is richer than that
      
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      October 6, 2024 10:59am
    - Damocles11
      
      ‘Harrogate-born Yvonne Gray trained as a teacher and once hoped to open her own restaurant. Instead she said she found her perfect niche as a naval officer, first in the Royal Navy and now in the Pacific with the Royal New Zealand Navy (RNZN).
      In 2012, Commander Gray and her wife Sharon moved to New Zealand after falling in love with the country during a campervan holiday. “The most obvious thing to do was join the Royal New Zealand Navy,” she said.
      A former student of Bilton Grange Primary School and Harrogate Granby High School, she obtained a Bachelor of Education (Honours) at the University of Lancaster but teaching jobs were scarce in Yorkshire at the time. Commander Gray discovered the Navy while spending her university holidays leading outdoor activities at a Sea Cadet facility in the Lake District.’
      
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      October 6, 2024 11:17am
    - Ghost
      
      Soon as I saw the article I knew what would be on the blog. Got kiwiblog bingo very quick
      
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      October 6, 2024 11:34am
- Taieri
  
  Jacinda the Great, the one with the Midas’ Touch strikes again…?
  She was the sponsor of this fine vessel during its renaming ceremony in 2019.
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:34am
  - AitchW
    
    Just goes to show that everything Ardern touches turns to shit.
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:23am
- Simon
  
  Lol abandoned ship. Was there a female in charge.? Moving to fast near reefs to cause serious damage or just a panic? Has the vessel sunk?
  
  The HMNZS DEI.
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:35am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    The vessel has sunk, people have been injured. Please don’t have a laugh at the expense of these people.
    
    FYI, there was a woman as the Commanding Officer, but there has to be a number of things that go wrong in order for an incident like this to happen, and while the CO may be ultimately responsible, we know nothing yet.
    
    BTW, I was a former Bridge Officer in the NZ Navy.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:19am
- kowtow
  
  Dangerous
  Expensive
  Incompetent.
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:39am
- G152
  
  Trainee ferry skipper
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:41am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Not a trainee after this.
    Fully qualified !
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:52am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Auto pilot might have been on, while they went for a cuppa
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:52am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  I would be grateful if somebody more learned than me can explain how a very expensive naval ship equipped with a vast array of Global Positioning System gear, intricate depth sounders and highly paid well trained staff can run aground.
  I wonder how much the Navy will have to pay P.R. consultants to put a positive spin on such a far cup.
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:59am
  - pdm
    
    Role playing swap with Kiwirail Ferry drivers could be an explanation
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:01am
    - kowtow
      
      DEI cosplay as sailors.
      
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      October 6, 2024 10:25am
  - greybeard
    
    “According to the Defence Force website, it has a crew of 39 led by Commander Yvonne Gray and can hold up to 66 people in bunks.”
    
    “…Arndell said the 78 people on board were in life-rafts and accounted for.”
    
    This happened sometime around 9pm.
    Apparently they were surveying a reef on a Saturday night !
    
    Something not right with this story, especially those numbers. Party ?
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:02am
    - Michael Sommerville
      
      That shows their DEI policy working well.
      
      Was she the best candidate for the position?
      
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      October 6, 2024 9:38am
    - Taieri
      
      A civilian operated vessel of this size and complexity would have the marine crew of 11 to 13.
      With hydrographic operations there would be another 6 to 8 personnel involved in that.
      Why do they need 78 people to operate the same ship if painted grey I have absolutely no idea.
      
      There’s been quite a few adverse or derogatory comments about females in charge of a ship here. I have sailed with women deck officers, although not with one as a master. Some of them were very good, some not so. Just like men. They are not universally accepted though, and have to work very hard to prove themselves. How well they succeed, depends very much on their attitudes and personalities, but it also depends on the attitude of the remaining crew. This doesn’t always contribute to the good atmosphere on board and for that very reason, although I have no problem with sailing with women as such myself, I was generally not in favour of having them on board. It was just much simpler this way.
      
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      October 6, 2024 10:20am
      - AitchW
        
        A ship painted grey carries a lot of crew that a merchant navy vessel doesn’t. This one will have specialist oceanographic and cartographic crew plus other crew for naval duties that the merchant navy doesn’t need.
        
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        October 6, 2024 10:48am
      - kowtow
        
        The boss seemed to think that at least some of those on board were there to “give something back” , doesn’t sound particularly naval or strictly “mission oriented” to me , unless they were there for other reasons …….
        
        “Some of our crew hail from Pacific nations and so for them our deployments to the Pacific are a way for them to give something back to their communities,” Commanding Officer Yvonne Gray said at the time.’
        rnz
        
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        October 6, 2024 11:12am
      - Taieri
        
        This one will have specialist oceanographic and cartographic crew plus other crew for naval duties
        ————
        
        Fair enough, but I allowed 6 to 8 persons for hydrographic duties. A few years ago I was involved in the gas pipeline inspection in Timor Sea. Vessel of a similar size to HMNZS Manawanui. Slightly higher engine power at 10500 BHP, the usual junk on deck, 2 ROVs etc. 11 marine crew and 9 ROV/inspection/cleaning personel. 20 in total.
        
        While HMNZS Manawanui is (or was by now) owned by RNZN it is not really a military ship, just an offshore vessel painted grey. I believe she’s originally a dive support vessel. May be they carry all the divers and the DS gear personnel at all times, even when doing hydrographic/oceanographic surveys. Still, 78 people, of which 39 are the “core” crew is a lot.
        
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        October 6, 2024 11:22am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    The front fell off
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:05am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Good thing it was outside the environment.
      Youtube has this.
      
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      October 6, 2024 10:16am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    I have been a Ch Off in a Dive Support Vessel with Dynamic Positioning and Master on a ship operating in the Cook Is.
    
    I would NOT be operating close in to a reef at night. One wonders if there was a spur coming off the reef that they hit. The echo sounders would be towed behind.
    
    When at anchor on the reef off Aitutaki or Niue I would move OFF before sundown and hold the vessel in position and work cargo from the barges. All I had was a Controllable Pitch prop, no bow thruster. Vessel would be held in posn using the forces of the prop, wind and sea
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:28am
    - Mike
      
      It can happen. remember this?
      https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/sep/12/military.simonjeffery
      
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      October 6, 2024 10:34am
      - fightingtemeraire
        
        They almost lost her. The Maui AHTS ship was sent up there post haste to help.
        
        She was towed to Aus and sent back to the UK on a heavy lift vessel.
        
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        October 6, 2024 11:11am
- slightlyrighty
  
  https://www.nzdf.mil.nz/media-centre/news/women-lead-from-the-front-in-todays-royal-new-zealand-navy/
  
  I guess this media release has aged like milk then.
  
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  October 6, 2024 9:02am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Tough bunch.
    A Taiaha, a Tewhatewha, a Pounamu Mere, and a Rimu Mere.
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:25am
  - Damocles11
    
    She did pretty good for a part-timer, after rejoining the navy in the same year she was given command of this vessel:
    
    ‘Her campervan passion is still going strong, but the call of the sea is always there too. Commander Gray returned to the RNZN earlier this year after heading off in late 2019 on a 57,000-kilometre road trip around Australia with Sharon and their dog Dennis.’
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:20am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  In a loosely related segue, I see that women in the RN Submarine Service have had some unpleasant experiences.
  
  Well, dah! Anyone who thought that deploying a handful of women alongside a lot of healthy young men into a metal tube for months at a time was a good idea has let ideology trump our knowledge of evolutionary biology.
  
  https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wk7ljzg2do
  
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  October 6, 2024 9:11am
  - sirknz
    
    Clearly, women and seamen shouldn’t mix…
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:45am
  - kowtow
    
    You really have to wonder at the decision makers brains.
    
    Same with so many women staff these days in men’s prisons .
    
    These are the folks who’ve given the west uncontrolled immigration , climate change, big state , lockdowns , inflationary spending etc
    
    The very same folk who’re running down military spending when there are so many threats from as the uni wallahs so stupidly and naively put it ” the rules based international order”, when the enemy recognise no rules and no order.
    
    Etc
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:36am
  - David Garrett
    
    Never mind: Very well said Sir… I have always thought women in the navy serving in ships alongside fit young men is a disaster just waiting to happen
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:05am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It is listing and on fire.
  
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  October 6, 2024 9:26am
  - John Loveridge
    
    Somebody’s decided to burn the evidence?
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:28am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    A misdirected Houthi drone?
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:45am
  - John Loveridge
    
    It’s OK though, the mighty RNZN still has its other ship.
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:28am
- igm
  
  So long as we have promotions/appointments on everything but ability, New Zealand is in deep trouble. RBNZ being a classic example.
  
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  October 6, 2024 9:39am
- peterwn
  
  “Left hand down a bit” – catchphrase from the old BBC radio series “Navy Lark”. “Thunder Guts” the naval base commanding officer would not have been amused.
  
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  October 6, 2024 9:50am
  - peterwn
    
    In the light of further developments (where HMNZS Manawanui has sunk), my flippant comment is no longer appropriate. We can only await an outcome of the forthcoming inquiry to learn what the cause of the grounding was and why the ship was lost. It is good fortune that all of the crew survived that tragedy.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:00am
- rouppe
  
  Isn’t it the navigator that determines the course of the ship?
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:25am
  - David Garrett
    
    Rouppe: the skipper is always responsible for his ship, even when a pilot is nominally in command. Any seafarer can confirm this.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:09am
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      Apart from the Panama Canal. The pilot is In Command.
      
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      October 6, 2024 11:13am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    No. A Navigator may plot a course, and determine a ships position, but the Navigator would only be one of several watchkeeping officers on board a ship, and it it the officer of the watch that is initially responsible for the ships safety at any given time while in open water.
    
    This is usually a junior officer with about 2 years experience before gaining a watchkeepers certificate, normally at the rank of Sub Lt. Before they get their certificate, they will operate the ship under the oversight of a Qualified Watchkeeper.
    
    A Captain will normally only be on the bridge at a time of heightened readiness, such as entering or leaving a port, or carrying out at at sea replenishment, at which point the Navigating Officer has the Con, but the CO has command.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:29am
- Handyman
  
  Something not quite right about the timeline of the Commander’s promotion.
  She was appointed to her very first command, being the Manawanui, in 2022, immediately after returning from a three year road trip round Australia with her wife.
  Surely the gap in experience must have required some kind of interim post.
  
  I suspect she was pushing against an open door in Ardern’s modern inclusive Navy.
  
  https://www.nzdf.mil.nz/media-centre/news/yorkshire-woman-takes-command-of-royal-new-zealand-navy-ship/
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:26am
  - David Garrett
    
    ” A road trip with her wife”.Well I guess having an invert in Command removes one potential problem viz. Improper relationships with male crew members
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:12am
    - Flossie
      
      I presume that in the interests of diversity there are female crew members?
      
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      October 6, 2024 11:16am
  - Damocles11
    
    She ticks quite a few DEI boxes doesn’t she.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:21am
- alex Masterley
  
  Looks like two naval officers will be under investigation instead of one.
  Photos of the vessel shows it hard on the reef and listing significantly. I would not describe grounding a vessel as a career enhancing move.
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:26am
  - David Garrett
    
    Alex: Indeed not…I’m guessing the captain will shortly be free for more road trips with “her wife”… but I guess such speculation is a little premature
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:14am
- rouppe
  
  Apparently the Navy can time travel.
  
  it was built in 2003 and has been in service with the Royal New Zealand Navy since 2019.
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:29am
  - Ghost
    
    Navy purchased the boat in 2018, it was not built for the navy
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:33am
    - Mike
      
      ship
      
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      October 6, 2024 10:57am
    - rouppe
      
      Yes I know that 🙄
      
      It was a comment on the reportage. Which clearly stated it was built after it was put in service
      
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      October 6, 2024 11:02am
      - Ghost
        
        Ummm. I think you’re in need of a coffee. Your post says it was built in 2003, went into service in 2019. 2003 doesn’t come after 2019….
        
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        October 6, 2024 11:06am
Bridgenag

COVID vaccine science catching up with ‘conspiracy theorists’
RAPHAEL LATASTER, PHD

“Dr. Raphael Lataster provides an update on the emerging peer-reviewed literature that continues to expand the data, analysis, and confirmation that the EUA/OWS mRNA vaccines were neither safe nor effective. Drs. Peter Marks, Robert Kadlec, NIH/NIAID VRC, Pfizer and Moderna were wrong to rush these products out while bypassing the accumulated regulatory and bioethics wisdom developed over decades. They must be held accountable.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/okaythennews/p/covid-vaccine-science-catching-up?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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October 6, 2024 8:12am
- Mike
  
  It’s lucky that this theologian has the scientific background to critique mRNA vaccines. Is his research divinely inspired? Was Covid-19 a warning from a wrathful god?
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:18am
- NK
  
  Pfizers own contract, released in South Africa, says the same thing: Pfizzer itself took no responsibility for the V’s safety and efficacy.
  
  So glad I never put that shit into my body.
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:38am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Yet the brainwashed are still down ticking! Watched a silly house renovating program where this young fellow says he got blood clots fronm Covid…..No….. they came from the vax
    
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    October 6, 2024 8:50am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Oh for fucks sake. Hyper blood coagulation is one of the many potentially deadly effects of COVID.
      
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9759278/#:~:text=Prosthetic%20valve%20failure%20and%20valve,in%20COVID%2D19%20infected%20patients.
      
      A principal reason I get a COVID vaccine shot every six months is BECAUSE I am particularly vulnerable to the hypercoagulability that can occur with COVID disease.
      
      Any patient vulnerable to the adverse effects of blood clots from COVID should be vaccinated every six months. Any of these patients who took your advice would be risking their lives.
      
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      October 6, 2024 9:06am
      - igm
        
        As one who had a major clot after 1st booster, whilst on warfarin, I would never touch the shit again.
        
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        October 6, 2024 10:08am
      - imalwaysright
        
        “Oh for fucks sake.”
        
        The link is about heart valves in people who had covid 19.
        
        “Venous and arterial thrombotic events in COVID-19 infection have been well documented; however, few cases have been reported involving cardiac valve prostheses”.
        
        It doesn’t test vaccinated vs unvaccinated therefore it can be assumed all eight subjects are vaccinated.
        
        Since the vaccine is the subject of the concern then studies such as this is are irrelevant.
        
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        October 6, 2024 10:17am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Downticks show you are right over the target!!
      Go for it downtickers!
      
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      October 6, 2024 9:34am
      - Ghost
        
        No they don’t, and it is one of the most stupid things that you claim on this blog. But hey, I guess Mike will be so proud to know he is the most over the target on this blog. A retarded comment that came from the qanon days.
        
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        October 6, 2024 9:38am
      - Swifty
        
        That was what Penny Bright used to claim on here.
        
        Her batshit-crazy posts (frequently about the desirability of bringing back city works departments, or ‘opening the books’, or why she is New Zealand’s number one ‘public watchdog’) got down ticked into oblivion but then she always claimed ‘she must be right over the target!’ and then sign off her posts with ‘Her Warship’.
        
        Not an act one should follow in my humble view.
        
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        October 6, 2024 10:52am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is like playing daily wack a mole on here.
  
  Of course back in the real world, the COVID vaccines saved millions of lives. This is a European retrospective study. I could cite a dozen others.
  
  https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(24)00179-6/fulltext
  
  The author you cite has a PhD in religious studies. He is a professional conspiracy theorist.
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:58am
  - Fender
    
    “whack a mole”
    every single one of those listed authors is from the WHO, it says so clearly and the affiliation list is enough to make anyone’s head spin if they have a slight scepticism of officialdom.
    I think any credibility for real world rational thinking went out the window when you suggested taking children from parents last week
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:13am
  - Mike
    
    Best known for questioning the historicity of Jesus. Probably should have stuck to studying mythology rather than imagining he is an epidemiologist.
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:25am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    Keep up the good work Benedict
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:28am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Ben – you have stated clearly in the past that the vaccine did not stop people getting Covid or transmitting it.
    
    You are now stating the vaccine saved millions of lives.
    
    You are clearly a clever guy, surely you get the contradiction between those two positions?
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:29am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Imagine, just for a moment, that the effect of the vaccine was to make the body better able initially to resist, and then to fight back against, the effects of the virus, and so make recovery quicker and easier.
      
      Do you think both of Benedict’s statements might be correct, if that were the case?
      
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      October 6, 2024 9:52am
      - Inandout
        
        DQ, I have yet to see a satisfactory answer as to why a vaccine with such a short development time frame coud be happily accepted by our health authorities as safe? Imagine then what medical wonders await when drug companies could rush through cancer or MS drugs.
        
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        October 6, 2024 10:20am
  - Surely Knott
    
    METHOD : “In this retrospective surveillance study, we estimated the number of lives directly saved by age group, vaccine dose, and circulating variant-of-concern (VOC) period, regionally and nationally, using weekly data on COVID-19 mortality and infection, COVID-19 vaccination uptake, and SARS-CoV-2 virus characterisations by lineage downloaded from The European Surveillance System on June 11, 2023, as well as vaccine effectiveness data from the literature. ”
    
    **Me: So they are using vaccine data from the literature to model the result.
    
    From your study “In the full analysis period, we estimated that 1 560 661 lives were saved by COVID-19 vaccination. When we used the highest vaccine effectiveness values (sensitivity analysis 1), we estimated that vaccination saved 1 703 492 lives; when we used the lowest vaccine effectiveness values (sensitivity analysis 2), we estimated that vaccination saved 1 456 357 lives. When we used shorter lag times (sensitivity analysis 3), we estimated that 1 517 019 lives were saved, whereas for longer lag times (sensitivity analysis 4), 1 587 960 lives were saved. When we used a longer vaccination waning time (sensitivity analysis 5), we estimated that 1 710 055 lives were saved, whereas a shorter vaccination waning time (sensitivity analysis 6) resulted in 1 223 641 lives saved. ”
    
    “Data for the fifth and the fourth vaccination doses were not always available and had to be calculated for some CAT. ”
    
    ** Me: Um yeah: So it hinges a lot on what you estimate the vaccine effectiveness to be. They also don’t define a covid death. Given during much of that period UK and NZ was any death within 28 days of a positive test.
    
    “The authors affiliated with WHO are alone responsible for the views expressed in this publication…”
    
    Isn’t Bill Gates the second biggest funder of the WHO?
    
    “. This work was supported by a US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention cooperative agreement…”
    
    Was that who Fauci worked for when he funded the covid experiments in the lab?
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:40am
    - AitchW
      
      The pro/anti vaccination debate appears to have taken on a religious feeling. Each side presents links supposedly proving their opinion, many of which are from dubious sources who have qualifications totally unrelated to virology.
      I’m pro vaccine, but if you choose not to vaccinate it’s none of my business. I guess we’re all rolling the dice in our own way.
      Each side has its zealots who remind me of vegans….
      
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      October 6, 2024 10:58am
      - David Garrett
        
        Aitch: You probably know this one: How can you tell if a woman is a began?
        
        You don’t have to – she will quickly tell u
        
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        October 6, 2024 11:20am
      - AitchW
        
        DG, my apologies, reported in error.
        That was precisely my point. Zealots on both sides can’t wait to tell you.
        In April of this year my wife and I were in Christchurch for the Sail GP. On the Saturday night (the night of the day when racing was abandoned because of dolphins on the course) we were in a restaurant where I struck up a conversation with the couple next to us. They too were in town for the SGP. He immediately told us that there were no dolphins on the course that day, just like there was no such thing as Covid. Just like a freakin vegan!
        
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        October 6, 2024 11:42am
Cassandra

Damien Grant on the inevitable introduction of a Capital Gains Tax and then a Wealth Tax: “There is, as Adam Smith once wrote, a lot of ruin in a nation. It seems we are determined to find out exactly how much.” His article in on Stuff, so hold your nose and read it. Illuminating.
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October 6, 2024 8:14am
- Mike
  
  The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:22am
  - rouppe
    
    Like billion dollar iwi corporations.
    
    They are extremely wealthy.
    
    Get them paying tax like everyone else before you start looking at assets someone has been assiduous enough to accumulate over 40 years of effort.
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:33am
    - Mike
      
      Nice that you accept Adam Smith’s principle.
      
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      October 6, 2024 11:00am
  - Dave
    
    That’s a concise and persuasive claim, Mike, but what does it mean in practical terms?
    
    Does it support a flat tax or a progressive tax?
    Since wealth (as assets) is not necessarily revenue, does it support a wealth tax?
    Since assets are often created from taxed income, to what extent is taxing wealth a form of double taxation?
    Since the elderly, after a lifetime of work, are likely to have more assets than younger generations, is this tax effectively a form of age discrimination?
    Since capital gains often include a considerable inflation element, to what extent can a capital gain be taxed as revenue?
    What are the consequences of such taxes on the future income revenue generation of individuals and tax revenue for the state?
    
    These are doubtless naive questions, which is why I requested several days ago a book on economics from my library, so that I can better understand these issues, as I doubt the comments section of a blog will be sufficiently informative.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:00am
- Simon
  
  Not reading MSM shit. Grant is used for framing for the cattle. If he was relevant there is no way he would appear in MSM.
  
  MSM slop.
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:30am
- Scott
  
  Interesting article by Damien Grant. He says that the govt takes in by way of taxation fully one third of GDP. This is why people are voting Act.
  
  I don’t want Big Brother govt running my life and telling me what to do. I want freedom. A free community based on the family and work and sound morals not some centralised utopia where we own nothing and we eat artificial meat made from bugs.
  
  Less govt, lower taxes, more individual and family and community responsibility. Is that too much to ask?
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:34am
  - Swifty
    
    Scott, it’s worse than that one third stated.
    
    Please don’t overlook that, under Labour anyway, state spending exceeded tax revenue year after year (so spending as a proportion of GDP was even higher) and also we mustn’t overlook local government spending.
    
    Under Labour and Grant Robertson, total government spending (national and local combined) as a proportion of GDP was well into the 40s.
    
    If Labour had got another term or two they would have exceeded 50%.
    
    The downturn we’re in now would have been yet another excuse to ramp up their borrowing and spending even more.
    
    “The government must do more to stimulate the economy!”
    
    “We’ve got to prime the pumps!”
    
    We all know it to be true.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:02am
- redeye
  
  He writes well but I disagree it is inevitable. Once everyone discovers it will effect their kiwisaver the then current Labour leader will buckle like Ardern did.
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:34am
  - sirknz
    
    Oh no, they wouldn’t tax our kiwisaver, they would obviously exclude that capital from a capital gains tax…
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:52am
    - rouppe
      
      Exactly. The so called cgt won’t be a capital gains tax, it’ll be a landlord tax (at first).
      
      Then to get the ones that are wealthy in other assets, there’ll be the wealth tax. Sold by that ird study that looked at people with more than $100m, but applied to anyone with over $2m.
      
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      October 6, 2024 10:37am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Hipkins already ruled it out, this just shows he could not be trusted.
    
    KiwiSaver will be taxed, as much as Labour say they will be exempt, that is bullshit, if shares are sold as a profit CGT will automatically be taken before money goes into kiwi saver accounts, same if they own a commercial building, if the building is sold, how do you differentiate for kiwi saver accounts, to try and sort that out will be impossible, and very expensive.
    
    The wealth tax is the one that scares me the most, they explained how it works and from what I understand is if you take all your costs out and you are taxed on what is left, how the gell they is fair when you build your wealth on already taxed earnings
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:09am
- pdm
  
  Damien Grant the best opinion piece writer Stuff has.
  
  It is a shame they only let him do one article a week
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:38am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Yep, that piece on CGT is very nicely written, and spot on.
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:05am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    He’s probably busy with his day job
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:12am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Nailed it.
  
  “It isn’t clear what problem we are seeking to solve. The Crown takes in a third of GDP. This is a massive amount and other than our inability to constrain spending to within this massive haul; why does Wellington need the extra cash?”
  
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  October 6, 2024 9:50am
  - Mike
    
    CGT could be balanced by lowering GST.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:02am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Good luck with that by labour
      
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      October 6, 2024 11:10am
    - Cassandra
      
      NO. Don’t tinker with GST!!!
      
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      October 6, 2024 11:27am
- ChrisB
  
  We already have Capital Gains Tax, which we all pay on the property we own, it is called RATES, and so much worse when the rating base is on Improved Value. Should be on land value alone then not as onerous. Oh, and we also pay GS TAX on a TAX!
  
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  October 6, 2024 9:55am
Mod88

Well if the “They’re eating the dogs” going viral didn’t win Donald Trump the Election the pathetic and absolutely outrageous response to Hurricane Helene by FEMA/Biden Admin has. I’m reminded of our very own Gabrielle and White Island whereby it has been proven once again, Bureaucrat ridden Authorities are more hindrance than help. I bet that chap on White Island was glad the Helicopter Pilot ignored the Police instructions to turn around. Was that Hero actually Prosecuted I wonder ??
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October 6, 2024 8:15am
Grunter

Economist Rob MacCulloch at it again, more staggering common sense from one of NZ’s only academics that hasn’t been captured by the far-Left.

How we fund retirement and health? Answer- compound interest.

https://www.downtoearth.kiwi/post/the-nz-treasury-s-lack-of-imagination-threatens-our-future-it-has-no-faith-in-economic-magic-but-e
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October 6, 2024 8:29am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  That’s an odd article. He says, as if it proves his point, that Australians on average have more in super savings on retirement than Kiwis do.
  
  That’s true. But that is not because they earn compound interest while Kiwi savers do not. It is because they put more into their super savings than Kiwis do. That in turn is because they earn more, since Australia is a more prosperous country, and because their Government obliges them to divert a higher proportion into their own super than ours does.
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:06am
  - Flossie
    
    I believe it has been in place a lot longer too.
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:57am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Can anyone tell me what the super fund is for? Billions built up but it never seems to fund super. When do we think funding super may start? Who will be the first government to use the fund without being scared for they political life
  
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  October 6, 2024 11:14am
kowtow

MSM reporting that the head of religion/state in Iran gave first sermon in 5 years .

Such a bigly event !

In a mosque and fondling a rifle ,

” Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei delivered a rare Friday sermon defending this week’s missile attack on Israel that deepened fears of a regional war, while praising the “logical and legal” Hamas-led October 7 invasion and massacre in southern Israel that sparked the war in Gaza and fueled violence throughout the Middle East.”

Source Times of Israel.

Interesting that such august and reliable “news” sources as the BBC , Guardian and our very own RNZ have neglected to mention the rifle .

Can you imagine how those same “news” outlets would treat say a Catholic Pope or Protestant Archbishop in similar circumstances .

And then they wonder why trust in institutions is so low, it’s deeper than a Hezbollah bunker in Beirut.
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October 6, 2024 8:38am
SWIM

Expecting announcement of a total backdown from Bishop today over his “fast track” policy.
384 applications for the schedules that were to be attached to the legislation (to be passed before Xmas) and we were told last night via emails from MfE that only a tiny proportion of those applications will be allowed and that only schedule (a) will be put forward and all sched (b) are binned and must apply again AFTER all the (a) jobs are complete. So 2 or 3 years. So much for flooding the market with cheap sections to bring house prices down.
The reason given for the massive cut back on the scheduled projects is that government cant organise enough experts to assess the projects. So they cant find some consultants to go over the projects so we dont build houses. Awesome.
Is Bishop the epitome of all hui and no dooey??
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October 6, 2024 8:39am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Everybody competent has left or is leaving. The consequences of that are now showing up
  
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  October 6, 2024 9:56am
  - Mike
    
    Are you speaking of all our political parties, or just the national party?
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:06am
- artemisia
  
  Why would prioritising projects be a problem? Well we do have quite a good idea what happens when projects are not prioritised, at least not on normal costs v benefits. Or any.
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:41am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Why would he dump most the projects? He seem pretty happy last week announcing how many had come in, he will not be able to simply wipe them, other parties are part of fast tracking why would he patient go back track now ffs, they maybe done absolutely ridiculous projects, but there are several commercial shell fish farming applications, I bet all of those go through, they want building projects fast tracked, they want power companies to get quick answers, they want mining, this covers virtually every application, why they would now say no is beyond me, can’t see where you are coming from
  
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  October 6, 2024 11:21am
Tomtoddy

The Otago Regional Council is launching a new Climate Risk Action plan. It takes weasel words and useless verbosity to new heights. It fawns over the elite with stuff like:
“ORC enables mana whenua to exercise rakatirataka and increase their climate resilience through supporting the identification of risks to
the values of mana whenua and collaborating on Māori-led adaptation planning”.

Isn’t that beautiful? Really warms your heart.

The plan reckons darn near three quarters of the region’s GHG emissions come from agriculture. The whole of NZ’s agriculture warmed the world by 4 millionths of one degree last year so try working out what Otago’s contribution amounted to. We are truly making idiots of ourselves. I guess it keeps people in work writing that dribble.
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October 6, 2024 8:41am
- kowtow
  
  The increase those useless f@#kers need to worry about are their rates increases , phenomenal.
  
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  October 6, 2024 8:55am
- Benedict Yu
  
  This is as annoying as it gets. 😫😡🤬
  
  “… enables mana whenua to exercise rakatirataka and increase their climate resilience…”
  
  Try coming back in five years and evaluating the net benefits of this. 😭
  
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  October 6, 2024 9:09am
  - Cassandra
    
    It’ll take me 5 years to work out what a rakitirakati is!
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:30am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  This kind of writing always calls to mind the telephone sanitizers from the planet Golgafrincham in the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.
  
  “These tales of impending doom allowed the Golgafrinchans to rid themselves of an entire useless third of their population. The story was that they would build three Ark ships. Into the A ship would go all the leaders, scientists and other high achievers. The C ship would contain all the people who made things and did things, and the B ark would hold everyone else, such as hairdressers and telephone sanitisers. They sent the B ship off first, but of course the other two-thirds of the population stayed on the planet and lived full, rich and happy lives”.
  
  Elon Musk, are you paying attention?
  
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17074662
  
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  October 6, 2024 9:18am
  - AitchW
    
    Send the ‘influencers’ on the B ship please.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:00am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Those useless pricks have to work somewhere and they will not be wanted in the Private Sector. Trouble is it is money down the drain.
  
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  October 6, 2024 9:40am
In Vino Veritas

Assets have been moving offshore since Labour and the Greens bought up a wealth tax Cassandra. So it’s already happening. Grant will know this. The only question is, which country does one want to buy the house to shift into?
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October 6, 2024 8:44am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Yes, and I see Luxon is divesting from property, this may or may not be a coincidence
  
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  October 6, 2024 11:24am
Chuck Bird

I hope everyone votes to get rid of climate alarmist mayors and councillors. I certainly am in the Waikato District.
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October 6, 2024 8:50am
- pdm
  
  Not to mention Mayor Sandra Hazelhurst in Hastings.
  
  She who scorns democracy
  
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  October 6, 2024 9:04am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The Mayor didn’t even have a turn on the bouncy castle according to the Taxpayer’s Union.
    
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    October 6, 2024 9:42am
- Grunter
  
  That would leave only one in Dunedin City. And possibly only one on the Otago RC.
  
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  October 6, 2024 9:23am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Here’s an article that sums up the danger of relying solely on data (aka an idea so dumb that only an academic could believe it).

Based on property prices, the number of families & the amount of open space:

“The top ten list of family-friendly suburbs, in order, is as follows: Milldale, Ashhurst, Timaru, Patumahoe, Selwyn Heights (Rotorua), Aranui (Christchurch), Tamarau (Gisborne), Riverhead (Auckland), Kawakawa and Wairoa”

Wairoa? Wairoa?? Sure, if you want your kids’ friends to be gang members.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/home-property/350434379/where-are-most-family-friendly-suburbs
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October 6, 2024 9:04am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

I have been asked to nor repeat this website/blog. This is neither. Each time I receive a new post by email, I can post it here. Mods have confirmed this. The posts are not daily anymore, more like every 4-5 days.

So last evening I received this. It is moving on from the 7 parts of Article 1 explaining the TOW.
This is now Article 2, Part 1. 5.41.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWRByzSsYfU
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October 6, 2024 9:06am
ecco

Watched the nz secondary school basketball champs held in palmy this week. You’ve truly got a wokeism gone mad situation with the coverage.

Unfortunately Māori tv are covering the games on their YouTube channel. They seem to get the contract to do the coverage every year. They chose to put one fluent Māori woman commentator in, with the other pakeha commentators.

Māori commentator obviously told to speak at least 70% in Māori. 99% of the viewers and her fellow commentators have no fricking clue what she’s saying. That’s probably including the many Māoris watching the games, who can’t even speak the lingo themselves. Read: disjointed and unwatchable game coverage.

What’s really sad is these kids are trying to get US college scholarships and those US scouts watching the coverage will probably switch off due to the bizarre commentary half in English and half in the te reo.

I hope Sky take over the coverage next year…
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October 6, 2024 9:25am
- kowtow
  
  All good , but given your stance why then do you use a macron on the word Maori , use “pakeha” and “te reo”.
  
  If I might be so bold , you’re playing their game.
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:46am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    If you type with autocorrect it does that it’s self, I do it too, but I am not wasting time deleting the macron.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:27am
artemisia

Pensioner party poopers? Kāinga Ora bans elderly tenants from happy hour drinks

The ‘?’ after ‘party poopers’ is, one assumes, there to show the article is balanced. It isn’t. A bunch of tenants are drinking alcohol in the common room, which is not permitted, and there have been complaints from other tenants. That is pretty much the KO contribution to the article.

Most of the rest is comments from tenants who seem to think because they are older they can do what they like. They come across as entitled and looking for sympathy because they are old. And one of those interviewed points out that no alcohol in the common room is not in their tenancy agreement. Did I mention entitled?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/pensioner-party-poopers-kainga-ora-bans-elderly-tenants-from-their-happy-hour-drinks/A6KGFPGKQJBIZI2CG4N2G2SIXY/
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October 6, 2024 9:27am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It’s once a week for a couple of hours.
  Not as if they are bringing crates of piss in and going on a bender.
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:03am
  - artemisia
    
    That’s what the interviewed say. Is it true, or are there other gatherings causing complaints and breaking the rules. Did the interviewer ask?
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:11am
- imalwaysright
  
  Calm down, its a get together with their mates. Probably the only fun they have in their lives.
  KO can fuck right off and sort out their deadbeat tenants who terrorise neighbours and neighborhoods with all night parties, assaults and death threats.
  
  Artemisia, you use the term entitled as if it is a perjorative.
  In this case they are entitled, entitled to have some fun and a life outside their flat. Its probably all most of them have to look forward to.
  Shameful.
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:58am
  - artemisia
    
    The tenants interviewed do come across as entitled. And maybe it is a few wines with their mates, but if KO does not apply the rules for one group, especially after complaints, there’s a slippery slope coming right up. Where is the line and why?
    
    Complaints from other tenants of the same landlord can and do end up in the Tenancy Tribunal, and can be on the grounds of anti social behaviour and interfering with ‘quiet enjoyment’.
    
    KO should follow its rules even without complaints. Because – what happens if everyone does it. Is KO really expected to interpret each instance on some basis or other, or how about tenants just follow the rules. Or move somewhere else without those rules.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:28am
Benedict Yu

I see that the naval vessel is on fire and listing.

Imagine how the commanding officer feels? New Zealand does not have so many naval ships that it can afford to lose one. 😫

There will no doubt be a major inquiry.
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October 6, 2024 9:40am
- sirknz
  
  Systemic sexism and toxic masculinity will be the cause of this. The woman in command will have done nothing wrong as a result.
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:00am
- Ghost
  
  Commander will be alright. Already filling out the insurance claim
  
  What was the cause of this accident
  
  We missed the morning karakia and it appears that a giant Taniwha has attacked our ship. Crew report the Taniwha was waiting for us, not moving, it was planning a sneak attack.
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:02am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Very good Ghost, and probably 90% true.
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:04am
    - imalwaysright
      
      The other 10% will be her writing the report entirely in maori.
      
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      October 6, 2024 11:33am
  - Taieri
    
    Crew report the Taniwha was waiting for us, not moving, it was planning a sneak attack
    ————-
    
    And where was Tangaroa in all that? Having a wee weekend’s sleep in ?
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:30am
- Keith White
  
  She was fully boosted tho’.
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:20am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Boosted and fluent!
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:05am
- Inandout
  
  Don’tcha just love DEI.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/top-naval-officer-under-investigation-ship-has-new-acting-commander/7YLZJXBW2RHXVPTI52SSL567LA/
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:24am
- kowtow
  
  Same naval type will know but I believe there will be an automatic court martial to inquire .
  
  At least that’s how it’s done in Hornblower.
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:48am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Court Martial.
    
    March in, sword placed on the table across ways.
    
    If Guilty sword now point towards you.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:20am
- Damocles11
  
  Yay for our woke Navy!
  
  ‘For the Royal New Zealand Navy, the 2023 International Women’s Day offers more reasons to celebrate than most.
  It coincides not only with the highest percentage ever of women in the Navy at 27.4%, but the largest number of women taking command of Navy ships and shore units, with four in command of ships and three in command of shore units. For the Chief of Navy, Rear Admiral David Proctor, the numbers are significant milestones.
  “International Women’s Day is a time to celebrate the diversity of our personnel and recognise the value women bring to our organisation,” he said. “But we also need to walk the walk and demonstrate that women have just as much opportunity to succeed as men. Having wāhine as commanding officers on more than 60 per cent of our ships, as well as heading up shore units and other important portfolios, is a realisation of that goal.”’
  
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  October 6, 2024 11:34am
Sparrow

As an ex seafarer I am shocked at what has occurred with the Navy vessel in Samoa. Initial reports that the vessel had grounded and the crew had abandoned the ship. Thought this was very strange as it was just a grounding. Now we know the reason for the abandonment. This is going to be a pr disaster for NZ its already on world news. That photo of the ship listing and on fire is horrific. Reminds me of the photo of the Wahine on Barretts Reef. How did this happen only an enquiry will find out. Lets not make judgements on the fact that the skipper is female. Could be various reasons for the disaster.
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October 6, 2024 10:11am
- Ghost
  
  PR disaster? No. It will be fish n chip wrapper in a few days
  
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  October 6, 2024 10:38am
  - kowtow
    
    PR disaster ?
    
    Tax payer disaster .( at least the crew is safe , that’s the important thing).
    
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    October 6, 2024 10:49am
  - Sparrow
    
    No it won’t be. This is a Royal New Zealand naval vessel going aground, on fire and possibly sinking, and being abandoned by its crew. How do you think this reflects on New Zealands reputation with its allies. Navy’s don’t generally loose vessels this way. This is not some merchant navy rust bucket registered in some tin pot country with a motley crew. This is the ROYAL NEW ZEALAND NAVY reputations count. Sorry this is not your fish and chip paper story.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:26am
    - Ghost
      
      Kiwibloggers will make more of this than the international media. This story won’t be the big deal some of you wish it to be. Sorry but there are far more important stories in the world today.
      
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      October 6, 2024 11:29am
      - Ghost
        
        BTW there was recently a story about a US submarine hitting an undersea mountain near China, story didn’t last long
        
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        October 6, 2024 11:32am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Are you actually serious? The New Zealand Navy running a ship on to a reef and losing the ship is a very big story.
    
    On a quick search I can’t find any examples of the navy losing a ship since WW2.
    
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    October 6, 2024 11:36am
    - Ghost
      
      Globally it’s not. Sorry, but this won’t be a major international story in a few days time it won’t be a story within a week internationally. It won’t be a PR disaster
      
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      October 6, 2024 11:46am
DistantObserver

Relax, its just a minor ding while parking.
On the reef.
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October 6, 2024 10:46am
- Swifty
  
  It’ll buff out.
  
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  October 6, 2024 11:11am
Sparrow

Don’t forget that CHOGM is being held shortly in Samoa with the royals in attendance. NZs contribution a wreck on the reef !!!
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October 6, 2024 11:30am
Cassandra

My militarily connected son reports that the ship lost power and then drifted onto the reef.
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October 6, 2024 11:38am

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