General Debate 05 October 2024

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NeverMindTheBollocks

Consultation on the proposed tolling of three new roads closes at 5pm on Monday. If, like me, you think new roads should be paid for out of fuel taxes or RUCs, then I encourage you to submit.

There’s rightly been a lot hoo-haa about the Manawatu Gorge replacement motorway, but this has let tolling on SH1 (Otaki-Levin) slip under the radar. It’s going to ping anyone travelling in & out of Wellington, and will have a much bigger impact.

If that’s the standard, then why not toll the Waikato Expressway?

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/media-releases/nzta-to-consult-on-tolling-proposals-for-three-state-highways/
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October 5, 2024 8:02am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “If, like me, you think new roads should be paid for out of fuel taxes or RUCs, then I encourage you to submit.”
  
  Can you tell us why that is superior to tolls?
  
  Tolls on the Manawatu Gorge is a stupid idea. I would be staggered if it happens.
  
  Conversely, Transmission Gully should be tolled. It is a perfect candidate.
  
  At the macro level, if tolls are ruled out, patrol tax and RUC will need to be increased to pay for the new roads that we rightly aspire to.
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:09am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I absolutely agree, Benedict. I think we should have a single method of charging for roads, being RUCs (& fuel tax for the time being); and they should be set at the rate required to build and maintain our roads.
    
    Philosophically, why should the Waterview Tunnel be untolled when the Tauranga urban motorway is tolled?
    
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    October 5, 2024 9:15am
    - Matt Long
      
      If the choice is between roads not being built and tolls, I go with rolls.
      However the cost of tolls needs to be significantly above the cost of collection otherwise we end up with forever tolls, like at Orewa.
      First goal get the administration costs down, then work out an effective rate to pay off the road and move on to the next one.
      
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      October 5, 2024 9:38am
      - rouppe
        
        There’s an online account you can set up with nzta that automatically pays the toll, and can automatically top up the account.
        
        tollingonline.nzta.govt.nz
        
        Add a processing fee for anyone who doesn’t use it will quickly get people signed up. I forgot to pay a toll once, and the “fine” for late payment was twice the toll amount, so I signed up lickety split. Have all my vehicles registered under the account so now doesn’t matter if I’m on my bike, in my car, or towing my caravan
        
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        October 5, 2024 10:05am
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  The principle of tolling has merit. Many still remember the success of the Auckland Harbour Bridge toll. I have seen some eye watering proposed prices. I’m sure that a $2 toll wouldn’t raise eyebrows but $8 each way for the Manawatu gorge feels like gouging with little understanding of the locals’ long held understanding that this is the only (yes, not really) way to travel from one side of the Ruahines to the other.
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:14am
- Anthony Melchett
  
  I don’t mind tolls but the rucs/fuel tax needs to be reduced.
  
  Untill they can prove the taxes aren’t pissed away on Maori signs and worthless overpriced consultants then we we just keep paying more and more for less.
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:54am
Grunter

Whew! I just survived Dunedin’s wettest day in 100 years….. 🙄🤡 60mm recorded yesterday 🙄🤡

Let’s play the silly Leftards game. If that was the wettest day, no lives lost, some relatively minor slips, some surface flooding, maybe a million $ of damage (that’s a guess but it won’t be much). Then why are we worrying about all this climate change BS??
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October 5, 2024 8:06am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Whether we should worry about climate change bullshit for the planet is not determined by its effect on the Dunedin climate.
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:11am
- David Garrett
  
  Grunter: Quite so. And the headline I saw was “Dunedin’s wettest day for X years” In other words there has been a wetter – or at least as wet – day sometime in the past.
  
  Here’s my view of climate change, and it’s really simple. Yes, the climate is changing, as it always has from time to time. How much of that is down to human input is unknown, and probably unknowable. Whatever is the case, there is fuck all we can do about it here, since our contribution to greenhouse gas emissions is absolutely miniscule.
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:14am
  - mandk
    
    Come now, David.
    
    When NZ gets to net zero, we will be able to erect a Jacinda Dome to keep out the nasty emissions all the other countries put into the atmosphere.
    
    Just like we kept out COVID.
    
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    October 5, 2024 9:22am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    The most amusing part of the fear porn pedalling is that they seem to have forgotten that the place names they use don’t seem to match the ‘modern’ versions they use in their forecasting.
    
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    October 5, 2024 9:52am
  - David Garrett
    
    Again, I have shared this here before, but I am reliably informed – by an environmental scientist – that if the world’s greenhouse gases for one year was a two litre jug of milk, New Zealand’s share of the contents would be one half of one drop.
    
    In other words we could return to the stone age tomorrow, and it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference.
    
    Tell that to the young people today, and they don’t believe you. (With apologies to Monty Python)
    
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    October 5, 2024 9:53am
- Matt Long
  
  TVNZ shows flooding lapping footpaths, and slips over part of roads, apologies if you have been severely affected, but their disaster coverage look like a beat up.
  Anyway, It’s clear proof of the need to destroy western freedoms and install communism. Greg Presland told me.
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:39am
- G152
  
  Mainly because global warming is a natural event dressed in politics. The Earth warms and cools put on a jersey
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:54am
NeverMindTheBollocks

I used to moan about Kim Hill, but her twin replacements are truly dire. Joanne Forbes excelled herself this morning by saying that Auckland is the nation’s capital. It’s not clear whether she misspoke or whether she truly thinks that. Either way, she’s substandard. But, she speaks Maori and that seems to trump all of her failings.
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October 5, 2024 8:06am
- Benedict Yu
  
  So why are you subjecting yourself to such rubbish?
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:12am
  - David Garrett
    
    Bene: Indeed. I bought a new clock radio the other day, and didn’t even bother to tune it to Red Radio. And for the most part, I used to enjoy Kim Hill, despite her very obvious leftie bias. Her interview with John Pilger is well worth tracking down. She owned him.
    
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    October 5, 2024 9:17am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I live in hope of better, Benedict.
    
    Foolish, I know.
    
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    October 5, 2024 9:17am
  - Aquarius
    
    They seem utterly determined to drive away the few remaining listeners they have
    I could filter out the left wing bias against the ads on ZB
    But not non stop pidgin
    Had been a listener for probably 30 years
    
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    October 5, 2024 10:02am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Ms Forbes has done it again. Her guest, a professor of medicine, no less, referred to the discoverer of penicillin not once but three times as “Andrew Fleming”; no correction by Forbes.
  
  Good manners, a “no correction / apology” policy or just ignorance? You decide.
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:51am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Let’s get an iron dome.

https://babylonbee.com/news/ayatollah-frantically-googles-how-to-build-iron-dome-thingy-fast?
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October 5, 2024 8:07am
- imalwaysright
  
  I remember the old days when an iron curtain was cutting edge!
  
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  October 5, 2024 8:25am
- Paulus
  
  Buy one from Temu, cheap steel but does that matter ?
  
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  October 5, 2024 8:46am
- David Garrett
  
  Steve: That link is screamingly funny! Every bit as good as The Onion…is that still published?
  
  I see a couple of Jew haters have downticked you…
  
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  October 5, 2024 8:56am
  - mandk
    
    They are everywhere.
    
    On Monday, they’ll be out celebrating an atrocity.
    
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    October 5, 2024 9:00am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Downtickers mean you are over the target.
      
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      October 5, 2024 9:19am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    The Onion died several years ago when it was purchased by some Hillary Clinton supporter. You could see the ideological change immediately, and it became partisan.
    
    The Babylon Bee (motto: “Fake News You Can Trust”), even with its Christian messages, is beating the pants off of The Onion, and making a lot of money for the owners.
    
    BB’s only real problem is that the reality of America often outpaces their ability to write satire about it. It’s why they had to launch a companion site, Not The Bee to cover real news items that would otherwise be taken as fictional satire were they to appear on BB.
    
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    October 5, 2024 9:07am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Clinton supporter explains the lack of humour. Lefties are born without a sense of humour.
      
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      October 5, 2024 9:21am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yeah, The Onion is still alive. I don’t find them nearly as funny – I like satire. Maybe that is just me.
    Try this, Onion News Network:
    
    https://theonion.com/gods-penis-visible-in-night-sky-for-first-time-in-millennia/
    
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    October 5, 2024 9:14am
    - David Garrett
      
      Steve: Double LOL. Bob McCroskie, I implore you, DON’T click on that link.
      
      I’m sorry you didn’t have time to catch up with me for lunch while I was in the country. Take care my friend.
      
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      October 5, 2024 9:22am
- Philview
  
  I have to wonder why Iran thought that was a good idea to send all those missiles into Israel. I know a couple of people who have been to Iran in recent times and they were surprised how outspoken Iranians were in their hatred of their leaders. Let’s hope this ends well for the Iranian people.
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:14am
  - David Garrett
    
    Philview: Yes…the Iranian revolution – which appeared to have massive support – was two generations ago now, 40 odd years pre internet. They say videos helped destroy the Soviet Union and its empire as the inhabitants learned what things were really like in the west.
    
    The internet will have had massively greater effect on the young of Iran today. I’m sure the Ayotollahs try to block it, but youngsters are very tech savvy wherever they live.
    
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    October 5, 2024 9:58am
  - kowtow
    
    Overnight an Iraqi Shiite militia drone got through Israeli defences undetected and hit an IDF base killing 2 soldiers.
    
    I reckon most people don’t realise that this thing is actually in intent an Iranian theocratic genocide against the Jews of Israel .
    
    That is the ultimate intention. To wipe out the people of Israel . Driven by their fundamentist ideology.
    
    There have also been hand grenade attcks by “Swedes” on Israeli diplomatic missions in Denmark and Sweden .
    
    A report also states that they have built tunnels from Syria to Lebanon for weapon smuggling .
    
    Why do religious leaders have such murderous intent , why are western media so anti Israel .
    
    Why don’t the labour/green ceasefire , towel types call on Iran to stand down.
    
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-strikes-lebanon-syria-border-crossing-said-used-by-hezbollah-to-smuggle-weapons/
    
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    October 5, 2024 10:02am
Simon

China is no threat to NZ. Fucking garbage. If you believe “China!!” you better get into your EV and drive down for your booster shot.
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October 5, 2024 8:18am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes that comment makes so much sense. 🙄
  
  I take it that..
  
  You don’t like Chinese folk.
  
  You don’t like EVs.
  
  You have not kept up with the recommended COVID booster vaccinations.
  
  But I am guessing.
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:13am
  - David Garrett
    
    Bene: I think you’ve nailed it mate.
    
    One small point though: I don’t think fear of – or even anxiety about – what China might do in the future is synonymous with a dislike of Chinese people. I like Chinese people just fine, but I am pretty sure the Chinese have some sinister intentions in the South Pacific, where they are investing huge amounts of money into developing countries who have no way of repaying the huge “loans” China is making.
    
    Tonga reportedly owes them USD300 million plus – they have no hope of ever repayng that. But they DO have a massive harbour – known for obvious reasons as “the Port of Refuge” – in the northern Vava’u group… An ideal naval base smack in the middle of the South Pacific.
    
    And the Chinese embassy compound now has apartements sufficient for 1500 people – while the embassy staff is about 35. Why the need for so much accommodation?
    
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    October 5, 2024 9:27am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I don’t dislike Chinese people but I detest the CCP. I see them as evil.
      Next door neighbours are Chinese. He does acupuncture, she teaches English to other Chinese. And little Leo is one next month. We bought him a buzzy bee.
      Lovely family.
      
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      October 5, 2024 9:41am
      - David Garrett
        
        Steve: As many here will know, the local general store and one of the liquor stores in my patch is Chinese owned. The family are probably the best respected in the district, certainly one of the best respected.
        
        When they experienced an armed robbery several years ago they got so many flowers from well wishers that they had to put an ad on Facebook asking people not to bring any more.
        
        The married daughter is a medical specialist in Australia. The son has a degree in both law and engineering – the requirements of a patent attorney – he currently helps Mum and Dad run the shop. I think he also manages the family’s property investments.
        
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        October 5, 2024 9:46am
  - MCōs
    
    Here’s someone who doesn’t like Asian people in general
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/racism-fallout-at-north-shore-hospital-after-patient-request-to-avoid-asian-staff/JGF23VC6NFCY5AUTO5ZOOWYNTA/
    Furthermore
    My wife is Asian and belongs to a NZ social media group of Thais. Someone commented a couple of days ago about the rise in anti Asian sentiment compared with when they first came here.
    
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    October 5, 2024 10:02am
    - Ghost
      
      I had a Chinese doctor in Auckland when I lived there. They moved to NZ before I was born. Amazing family. Sadly they were on the Holmes show once when their trainee doctor son committed suicide because of the long hospital hours he was having to do. Last I saw of her she was in the media talking about people putting dead birds in her letterbox telling her to go back to China.
      
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      October 5, 2024 10:13am
Bridgenag

Friday Funnies: At my Age:
I Haven’t Got the Time

https://www.malone.news/p/friday-funnies-at-my-age?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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October 5, 2024 8:28am
I remember when

“It is happening again Boo Boo.”
“What’s that Yogi?”
“It’s the great biblical flood that occurred in Noah’s time only this time it’s in Dunedin.”
“What are they going to do about it Yogi?”
“The mayor is going to go to Wellington to get the Government to do something about it?”
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October 5, 2024 8:36am
- AitchW
  
  I saw Dunedin’s mayor on TV working himself into a lather about the government ‘cancelling’ the local hospital.
  What a delusional dishonest little fellow he is. My only question is does he carry a Labour or Green card?
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:11am
  - MCōs
    
    If I was the mayor of Dunedin or Invercargill, Gore, Southland, Queensland Lakes, Clutha, Central Otago or Waitaki I’d be annoyed too.
    
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    October 5, 2024 10:11am
- G152
  
  Second flood in 100 years…… We’re all gonna die
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:58am
  - kowtow
    
    Building infrastructure in a low lying former swamp has always been a great idea …….
    
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    October 5, 2024 10:05am
Bridgenag

The Hallett Inquiry – Evidence given on 26 September 2024
Professor Whitty’s responsibilities in the Covid saga

https://open.substack.com/pub/trusttheevidence/p/the-hallett-inquiry-evidence-given-993?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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October 5, 2024 8:38am
imalwaysright

Anyone noticed that the ridiculous tv1 news have taken to interviewing some people in silhouette and disguising their voice?
Saw one commenting on vaping, very dramatic, clearly feared for her life in case the vapers tried to “off” her.
I wonder if tv1 have a witness protection programme?!
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October 5, 2024 8:41am
- MCōs
  
  Shock Horror
  TV1 and many other channels have been doing that for as long as I can remember
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:22am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Mcos,
    Yes, I’m aware of that. These two were different in that they were about minor social issues and the comments made weren’t remotely controversial.
    The dramatic presentation was clearly done for effect. Maybe tv1 are trying to imply that people who speak to the media are at physical risk and by proxy the media are co-victims.
    
    That’s assuming the commenters are genuine. I doubt it.
    
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    October 5, 2024 9:38am
NeverMindTheBollocks

This article focuses on a well paid young family (an urban designer, whatever that is, who works on Queen St – a Council apparatchik, perhaps?) with one small child, and how just about everything is bike-accessible.

No word on how any other demographic would manage.

I’m guessing the article is written by someone in the same age group.

http://www.1news.co.nz/2024/10/05/yes-you-can-live-car-free-in-auckland-if-you-choose-your-suburb-wisely/
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October 5, 2024 8:43am
- AitchW
  
  Pfft let’s see how much fun her commute is when it’s pouring with rain, blowing a gale and just above freezing. Or in the high 20s and 100% humidity.
  This is typical cloud cuckoo land Green fantasy propaganda.
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:19am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes it is a stupid argument. Exceptions do not prove anything.
    
    I once lived in an apartment in Central Wellington for 6 months. I did not have a car. It was fine. But that is not typical of where and how most folk live.
    
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    October 5, 2024 9:41am
Bridgenag

World has gone mad

The English can be as stupid as us. Oh joy.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/uks-chicken-license-rebellion-good-way-deal-bad-laws
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October 5, 2024 8:59am
Yvette

Racism fallout at North Shore Hospital after patient request to avoid Asian staff
Mat Danaher, the E tū union director responsible for hospitals and care, was unaware of the situation but said, if true, it would be very disappointing.

“We believe Te Whatu Ora has a responsibility to provide a safe working environment for its staff, and that pandering to racism cannot play a part in that. Instead the organisation needs to educate patients on the important role all staff, irrespective of origin, play in delivering care.”
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/529889/racism-fallout-at-north-shore-hospital-after-patient-request-to-avoid-asian-staff

What, then, of an entire Health Authority that was established to cater for patient treatment on an assumed racial position? Just as well that was reversed?

Pity, however, that a racial slant (te Puna, Maori Advisory Council to the Water Regulator, Taumata Arowai ) remains in provision of the nation’s water services. [1]
Is it racial to raise one ethnicity above others?
When does racism become Aryanist?

_____________________
[1] Minister of Local Government Simeon Brown has announced new appointments to the Board of the Water Services Authority – Taumata Arowai (the Authority), including a new chair, and has reappointed two members of the Authority’s Māori Advisory Group for a further three-year term.
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/minister-appoints-new-chair-and-members-water-services-authority
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October 5, 2024 9:12am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Avoid Asian staff.
  If there was a life or death emergency that patient would have an attitude adjustment immediately.
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:52am
Inandout

Looks like the 3 day leader of the Hezbos has been eliminated. Do they allow women to become leaders….?
https://www.youtube.com/live/Eja2xe-uAEg
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October 5, 2024 9:13am
Damocles11

Personal responsibility vs ‘It’s the gummints fault’.

My father is in his 80’s and said to me yesterday “I’m yet to lie down in a hospital bed”. A former dairy farmer who has never smoked and never drank to excess. If we have a public health crisis then he’s not one of the people driving it.

——

Xeet by Alisdair Thompson:
‘I deliver frozen meals 2 families with babies/kids in Akld Hospital.
Amazing to see patients outside smoking.
Today 5 Polynesian overweight female patients were smoking + a Polynesian man & woman (dressed so assume they were visitors) were also smoking .
20/day $45 of $16425 pa.’

https://x.com/ajthompson13/status/1842075852542013831
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October 5, 2024 9:17am
- quarterpack
  
  Should we all be compelled to maximize our time on the planet?
  
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  October 5, 2024 10:11am
Keith White

Shot: New Zealand had a 400% increase in emergency chest pain visits from 2020 to 2023 in patients under age 40

Chaser: Health system: Wellington man’s 11-hour wait with sick daughter in emergency department

Health bureaucrats: nothing to see here, we are not curious, we are not investigating, but there is absolutely NO link with nMRNA vaccines, and if you say there is or if you say there could be, we will strip your licence to practice
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October 5, 2024 9:27am
- Benedict Yu
  
  That is because there is no link with the covid vaccine.
  
  Guess what causes heart damage? COVID. 🙄🙄
  
  https://www.heart.org/en/news/2024/01/16/how-covid-19-affects-your-heart-brain-and-other-organs#:~:text=Research%20shows%20COVID%2D19%20infection,heartbeat%20known%20as%20atrial%20fibrillation.
  
  Anyone with heart issues is well advised to be up to date with their COVID vaccines because of the protection that COVID vaccines afford to people with underlying heart conditions. That is why I have had 7 covid vaccine shots. I would not even contemplate skipping vaccination.
  
  The protective effect of COVID vaccines for people with cardiac issues was recently determined conclusively in the analysis of a UK data set with 46 million records. I posted this analysis recently. I assume you did not read it.
  
  As for authorities in New Zealand not caring, there is currently a Royal Commission in progress. That is about as caring as you get.
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:52am
  - David Garrett
    
    …I got as far as “our kaimahi [staff]…” and that was it for me.
    
    Ironically, due to my natural curiosity, I probably have a greater knowledge of te reo than the idiots who write this dross.
    
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    October 5, 2024 10:06am
- Inandout
  
  KW, perhaps you are correct in your assumption, perhaps not, but what amazes me is that recently retired health professionals have not ‘broken their silence’. A retiree has no axe to grind surely?
  
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  October 5, 2024 9:57am
trout

An interesting take on changes in the Republican Party as represented by the choice of J.D. Vance and the positions he took in the VP debate.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/rip-never-trump-gop-vances-dominant-debate-beginning-end
quote:’Trumpian populism, or the New Right, has four essential pillars erected by Trump: anti-globalism, a strong border, energy independence and taking the fight to wokeness. On all four, Vance made the case.’
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October 5, 2024 10:04am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The Pandemic Democrats Were Hoping for This Year Never Materialized.
“It’s too bad for the Democrats that none of these potential diseases panned out in 2024. They were hoping that another pandemic would lead to more universal mail-in voting. Instead, it looks like Americans will have to have an election the old-fashioned way—with less cheating!”
Democrats don’t cheat!//

https://rightsideoffers.com/thepoliticalmovement/the-pandemic-democrats-were-hoping-for-this-year-never-materialized/?
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October 5, 2024 10:06am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Chicago. The black gangs have stopped shooting each other due to a new threat – Venezuelans.

https://freedomeagledaily.com/theteapartydaily/chicago-is-a-powder-keg-as-black-gangs-square-off-against-venezuelan-invaders/?
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October 5, 2024 10:15am

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Health Target 2 – Immunisations

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"Logical fallacies are not the only errors that retard thinking. Conceptual fallacies do, too, and often in subtler, more destructive ways."
Not PC
Woman of the day
Hompaddock
It Has Become Far Too Expensive,
No Minister
The Marine and Coastal Area Amendment Bill – A step not far enough
NZCPR
Oh well, that makes up for all the funding cuts and damage you’ve caused the disabled community you ghouls
The Daily Blog
Open mike 05/10/2024
The Standard
Rockonomics Highlights
Utopia
Taking the piss
No Right Turn
Stats NZ’s LGBT data disaster
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
Casey Costello (at long last) shows the information which she regarded as superior to the advice which Treasury gave her
Point of Order
Bunnings NPC Predictions for Week 9
Stats Chat
ON BEING A NEW ZEALANDER
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
Inquiring into banking
Croaking Cassandra
Media Link: ” A View from Afar” on multidimensional hybrid warfare and the ineffectiveness of multilateral institutions.
Kiwipolitico
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
Loss aversion or mistakes?
Offsetting Behaviour
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz