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October 3, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 03 October 2024

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General Debate

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Flossie

I’ve been wondering why Maggy W hasn’t been around lately. I hope all is well.
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October 3, 2024 8:03am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I’m fine. Over in Oz and offline for much of my visit.
  
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  October 3, 2024 8:33am
  - David Garrett
    
    Looking forward to seeing you back Maggy…your comments are always worth reading.
    
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    October 3, 2024 8:57am
  - Ghost
    
    Enjoy your holiday. Awful time to go, you’re missing out on all the normal crap spring weather.
    
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    October 3, 2024 9:04am
    - lastmanstanding
      
      Oz is in the shit socially as well as economically. Governments especially the Albanese Labor clown show have let in so many terrorist supporters they now have mass violent protests on the streets with the Police refusing to stop them because some Labor seats in Sydney and Melbourne have over 30% Muslim voters.
      Let this be a lesson for NZ Governments. If you import radical terrorist supporters your social cohension will come under pressure big time. We dont need to import conflicts from the other side of the world.
      
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      October 3, 2024 9:18am
      - MCōs
        
        Good news
        The threat of a terrorist attack in NZ is rated by the SIS as LOW
        That’s one step above very low, which is the lowest rating. I suppose they have to cover their arses if something does happen.
        In Australia it’s Probable
        
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        October 3, 2024 9:59am
      - David Garrett
        
        Lastman: Re your last para, I have been saying this loudly for more than ten years, My guest piece on Muslim immigration here is still available. Re-reading it the other day I wouldn’t change a word.
        
        I find it incredible that with a reminder just across the Tasman of what happens if you allow the Muslim population to increase, we are still not learning from the Australian experience.
        
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        October 3, 2024 10:10am
      - Cassandra
        
        The perils of immigration: ex Labor Senator Payman from WA is launching a new party targeting the pro Hamas/Arab/Lebanese/Moslem vote. That’s a significant Labor demographic. More keffiyehs in Parliament I suppose but a headache for Labor which also wants the important Jewish vote. If I was in the NZ Cabinet I’d be bringing in Filipinos and South Africans; Moslems maybe not so much. Most Americans cultures ming to NZ seem to be lefties so perhaps not too many of them either.
        
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        October 3, 2024 10:28am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Enjoy your trip.It’s expensive to go to the pub isn’t it 😊👍🍺
    
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    October 3, 2024 9:39am
- imalwaysright
  
  And also Maggie Pie. The only genuinely funny one on here.
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:04am
  - MCōs
    
    Apart from yourself of course
    
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    October 3, 2024 9:34am
  - David Garrett
    
    Maggie Pie funny? I would have said puerile…all those references to “the girls at tennis” and the particulary irritating “asking for a friend”. I don’t miss her “contributions” one bit.
    
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    October 3, 2024 10:11am
    - Cassandra
      
      Are you becoming grumpy, DG? That’s not like you.
      
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      October 3, 2024 10:30am
      - Biscuit
        
        DG grumpy?
        
        I’d offer him a square or three of this Caramello chocolate but, gasp, I rather fear the b*gger might TAKE some!
        
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        October 3, 2024 10:40am
    - pdm
      
      First ever downtick for you DG.
      
      I enjoy Maggie Pies contributions.
      
      As I usually do yours.
      
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      October 3, 2024 10:41am
      - Biscuit
        
        Agreed, pdm.
        
        Mind, there’s precious few folk in here I don’t at least read the opinions of.
        
        At if I do disagree with them, I don’t just downtick them I tell them why I downtick them.
        
        Novel, eh?
        
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        October 3, 2024 10:58am
    - Flossie
      
      Just a suggestion. If “her” (presuming there!) contributions don’t float your boat maybe you shouldn’t bother reading them.
      If she comes back of course.
      
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      October 3, 2024 11:20am
artemisia

Herald Today (paywalled) – Mood of the Boardroom: CEOs rate Christopher Luxon’s Cabinet

Top rated – Erica Stanford, Simeon Brown, Nicola Willis / Chris Bishop. Minister Stanford holds Education and Immigration portfolios – both obviously of major interest to the business community.

Teachers, the PPTA and other teacher unions would be well advised to take note that CEOs like the way education changes are happening because CEOs are the future employers of their students. If their students don’t meet the grade, well Minister of Immigration Stanford will no doubt have Plan B.

Not to mention that some of those underperforming students will have a lifelong ‘wellness’ disadavantage. Do underperforming teachers and edu policy developers ever consider that?
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October 3, 2024 8:06am
- imalwaysright
  
  Art,
  The teachers, union and the legacy ministry couldn’t give a toss about the students.
  Students are an unwelcome imposition on their grift.
  The kids know this and they know they aren’t wanted at school. That’s why they don’t go.
  
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  October 3, 2024 8:15am
  - cmm
    
    There was a saying in USSR:
    “We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us.”
    
    There should be something similar for NZ schools:
    “We pretend to go to school and they pretend to teach us.”
    
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    October 3, 2024 9:38am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They had the education union hack on radio with HDA this morning, he said teachers voted to work at Charter schools, more than 50% but refused to say how much more than 50%. He had the cheek to say charter schools are a failure, when state schools have less than 50% being able to read and write
    
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    October 3, 2024 9:49am
    - David Garrett
      
      G: Can you clarify that comment? I find it very confusing…Are you saying that the said union hack admitted that more than 50% of teachers wouild be prepared to work at a charther school, but would not say how much more than 50% were of that view?
      
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      October 3, 2024 10:14am
      - Matt Long
        
        The teachers voted in favour of unionised teachers working in charters schools, the union would not give the voting percentages.
        
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        October 3, 2024 10:50am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If I was of high school age today I probably wouldn’t go to school. These days it is just a whole lot of Marxist bull shitters who don’t give a shit about the kids.
    Sad, because I really enjoyed my high school years and these kids are not getting what I enjoyed.
    
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    October 3, 2024 10:35am
- MCōs
  
  David Seymour and Shane Jones are notable omissions from the top ten cabinet ministers in the Herald article
  Back in 2020 the entire cabinet was ranked. Grant Robertson was given a higher score than anyone in the current cabinet; Winston a much lower score for doing the same job and Shane Jones was near the bottom
  There was also a glowing article on David Seymour
  https://newzealandinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Mood-of-the-Boardroom-2020-The-Covid-Election.pdf
  
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  October 3, 2024 8:47am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    What’s that tell you about Seymour’s ethics? I actually would have him in the top half, and Jones is doing well I thought even though he is an oaf, why Jones is low is beyond me, they possibly don’t like the bombastic nature
    
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    October 3, 2024 9:51am
    - MCōs
      
      There’s always that whiff of corruption with Jones going back to his dodgy credit card expenditure and allocation of funds during his time as Minister for Regional Economic Development
      
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      October 3, 2024 10:16am
    - Cassandra
      
      Shane Jones has transformed himself. He used to play the oaf – I now rate him very highly. A real asset to the Coalition.
      
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      October 3, 2024 10:33am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  And level headed voters will mirror what the board room thinks, the left r we oils be well advised to take note
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:52am
Grunter

The world waits to see what happens next in the Middle East. The crazy Arabs in Iran are now threatening Israel with further action. Basically saying if Israel blows up Iranian oil refineries then Iran would retaliate by blowing up oil refineries right across the region (Saudi, Kuwait, UAE,…..).

The nut job Netanyahu does not have a realistic plan, never has. He keeps climbing the escalation ladder with no off ramp.

Over 12 mths this mess has developed exactly as expected. Both sides intent on ‘eradication’ which is impossible.

IMO this will now go from very bad to total chaos. Luckily Biden has promised peace…..”I’ve got this man!!”
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October 3, 2024 8:11am
- Matt Long
  
  The Iranians are not Arabs and the Ayatollahs are enemies of most Arabs.
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:12am
  - Grunter
    
    Good point Matt, I got that bit wrong.
    
    The rest I stick by. Happy to hear how this de-escalates in a realistic way.
    
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    October 3, 2024 9:33am
- Matt Long
  
  Incidentally is Netayahu a “nut job” because he transformed Israel from a failing socialist state to a thriving market economy, or some other reason?
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:33am
Chuck Bird

It appears that Labour have been making excuses for Damien O’Connor’s retweet about the 7 October.

Only Act has been critical of the retweet. Neither National or NZF have commented.

Winston is at a public meeting in Hamilton on 13 October. I hope to be there to ask him about O’Connor’s retweet.

Anyone who agrees with me wants to join me?
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October 3, 2024 8:16am
- peterwn
  
  No need for immediate comment from National or NZF. Damien has satisfactorily shot himself in the foot for now. Best to save comment and drop it at the most damaging time for him (eg during a general debate).
  
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  October 3, 2024 8:48am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Good point. I hope you are right.
    
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    October 3, 2024 8:52am
  - artemisia
    
    Voters don’t like unrelenting negativity from their politicians (or anyone really). So better to take the moral high ground and quietly fill up the back pocket until the time is right.
    
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    October 3, 2024 10:55am
Chuck Bird

The Oz betting sites now favour Trump. I wonder if JD Vance helped.
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October 3, 2024 8:21am
- peterwn
  
  How many USA voters frequent Oz betting sites?
  
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  October 3, 2024 8:48am
  - MCōs
    
    I don’t know, but they will do now
    
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    October 3, 2024 8:53am
  - I remember when
    
    peterwn:
    Betting sites are there to make money.
    They simply reflect the odds they consider will make this happen.
    
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    October 3, 2024 9:50am
- Colville
  
  Chuck.
  Earlier in the week Stuffed interview Sir John , it was a good but shallow chat, Key saying why he thought will and should win.
  Then there was a Stuffed poll. “Do you think Sir John is right and Trump will win??”
  76% said no.
  That tells me everything about the typical reader of Stuffed. Young, red/green and out of touch with reality.
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:45am
Yvette

“The Treaty itself contains no principles which can usefully guide government or courts. It is a bald agreement, anchored in its time and place” – David Lange

However – Last week, the Māori Working Group on Aerospace declared itself “shocked” that the Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology, Judith Collins, hadn’t included consultation with iwi as part of its Aerospace and Advanced Aviation Strategy — as if a neolithic culture which never got around to inventing the wheel deserves a share of the benefits of space technology on account of an imagined “partnership” with the Crown.

The group, set up “to advocate for Māori rights and interests in aerospace”, was appalled that, unlike in 2023 under the Labour government, the strategy “makes no reference whatsoever to Māori, the Crown’s partner under Te Tiriti o Waitangi” — thus losing the opportunity “to build and strengthen relationships with tangata whenua in the protection and appropriate use of aerospace resources”.

The group wants the nation’s burgeoning aerospace industry to develop policy “centred on tikanga” to enable “ethical and responsible exploration, caring for our environment, and unlocking economic and social benefits”.

Part of the justification for Maori involvement turns on the mystical notion that space is a “taonga” because it is the realm that Ranginui — the “sky god” — inhabits. The irony of religious dogma having been the biggest impediment to the work of astronomers like Galileo, who was declared a heretic for asserting that the Earth orbits the Sun, is apparently lost on the activists. […]

In Auckland, some developers end up paying iwi what is known as a “taniwha tax” on developments or alterations to a building or property if they fall within a large circle around a “culturally significant” site. And there are hundreds of such sites across Auckland affecting thousands of properties.
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/graham-adams-the-collapse-of-maori-nationalism

This is why one wonders if it is too late for ACT’s up-coming legislation to state –
4 – The New Zealand Government, all its services, and funding is to be secular

• ’One man’s meat is another man’s poison’ – attributed to the English philosopher and statesman Francis Bacon

Religious freedom includes the right to be free of religion

• Very few Māori still adhere to traditional Māori beliefs — 3,699 respondents to the 2018 census identified themselves as adhering to “Māori religions, beliefs and philosophies”
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October 3, 2024 8:25am
- John Loveridge
  
  One word: corruption.
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:24am
G152

O’Connor appears to have nailed his colours to a mast. (Had to correct the spell checker.. evidently ‘colour’ isn’t the way to spell colour or colours}…
I look forward to his now embarrassing retirement from liebor
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October 3, 2024 8:49am
- rouppe
  
  Yes, because you use a USA “keyboard” and language pack.
  
  Unfortunately if you use a UK language pack it changes the default $ to £.
  
  However if you download either an Australian (AU) or NZ language pack you get the $ and colour with a ‘u’
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:36am
BeaB

I can’t take the mood of the boardroom seriously when these are the same people who gazed starry-eyed at Jacinda and Grant. Especially as they shovelled out our money.
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October 3, 2024 8:49am
- Debsta
  
  Bang on Bea, I could not agree more.
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:15am
- Matt Long
  
  Somehow boardrooms have been infected by DEI and are addicted to corporate welfare.
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:35am
- JackRabbit
  
  Shoveled is an understatement.
  
  They borrowed and racked up future debt at the rate of nearly $100 million per day.
  
  It would be like giving all of NZ continual free lotto tickets with dozens of power ball winners every week.
  
  Since the general public won nothing, except loss of jobs and livelihoods, who got the jackpots?
  
  There was enough loot “shoveled” around to create 200,000 standard lotto division 6 winners.
  
  Who became millionaires? Who profited?
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:37am
Ghost

Ouch

Bank of America customers reported problems accessing their online accounts on Wednesday, with some saying they were unable to sign in and others reporting they were able to log on but were startled to see their balances at $0.

Article
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October 3, 2024 9:05am
Ghost

Im surprised Diddy hasn’t “committed suicide” yet…..

Diddy Sexual Abuse Scandal: Known Celebs and Minors Involved in New Allegations
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October 3, 2024 9:10am
- cmm
  
  Now he has lost power and influence there are hundreds of resentful people crawling out of the woodwork.
  
  It is almost humorous that while they stood to gain from Diddy they just kept quiet.
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:44am
- sirknz
  
  Not much has been mentioned by the politicians who are caught up in this one, yet.
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:44am
RoboRob

I see our tax payer paid news service, rnz, is claiming in their opinion the debate between Vance and Waltz was a tie. Listing a CBS poll as the proof.

Interestingly that flies in the face of the majority of commentators who thought that while Waltz did ok, Vance was the clear winner. Certainly my biased opinion too. I thought Vance was excellent in general with only one slip (around whether he thinks Trump lost the last election).

I continue to find it bizare that RNZ provides biased ‘journalism’ around US politics when there is no need in NZ. Very few US citizens in NZ will be voting in the US and forming their opinions based on RNZ coverage.
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October 3, 2024 9:18am
- sirknz
  
  That wasn’t a debate, that was a murder on live TV, streamed with commentary on multiple YouTube channels.
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:46am
- Cassandra
  
  Even the New York Times gave a clear win to Vance. Very polished performance. All we need now is for Trump to accept that he should retire.
  
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  October 3, 2024 10:38am
I remember when

Simon O’Connor has an article on Utopian Democracy on Breaking Views.
To a large extent it explains the problem created when large numbers of refugees from the same country/area live in the same place.
They try to make changes so that life is as similar as possible to their ‘home’ country.
In order for this to occur the ‘locals’ find that their wishes often in danger of becoming secondary.
When deep seated religious needs are involved this can result in divisions in the community.
Care must be taken to prevent the ‘freedoms’ they want being written in law.
“Freedom’ is the ability to take actions and hold beliefs – subject to the existing laws.
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October 3, 2024 9:30am
- Ghost
  
  Can be read on Simon’s blog
  
  https://onpointnz.substack.com/
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:36am
- rouppe
  
  In short, people leave their shit hole country, and then proceed to change their host country to be like the shit hole they left.
  
  The lack of intelligence in that behaviour shows we are not enhancing our society
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:40am
  - cmm
    
    This can be seen again and again, be that:
    
    * “New Europeans” into France, Germany and Sweden.
    * Californians moving to Oregon and, more recently, Utah, Texas and Florida.
    * Closer to home: townies moving into semi-rural areas then complaining about country activities like shooting and possum throwing.
    
    This is nothing new. In the 1980s there was a popular bumper sticker in Oregon:
    “Don’t Californicate Oregon”.
    
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    October 3, 2024 10:54am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  They try to make changes so that life is as similar as possible to their ‘home’ country.
  In order for this to occur the ‘locals’ find that their wishes often in danger of becoming secondary.
  
  Seriously, how is that different from what British colonists did when they arrived in New Zealand?
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:49am
  - David Garrett
    
    Dudley: It isn’t that much different…but there are at least two major differences: 1) the English colononists didn’t try and force their way of life on the Maori; and 2) the colonists didn’t go around killing Maori who didn’t want to live like Europeans.
    
    However, forcing Maori to follow our ways wasn’t necessary – there is heaps of evidence that in many respects the Maori were delighted to follow European ways. For example, living in houses with a tin roof and windows rather than a raupo hut with a hole in the roof for the smoke to escape; wearing European clothes, especially in the winter; embracing the written form of their language – and the English language; being converted to a new religion which preached forgiveness rather than never ending revenge; accepting – by and large – the English rule of law which obviated the need for constant utu between themselves…etc. etc. etc.
    
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    October 3, 2024 10:06am
    - cmm
      
      Yup, very similar in Africa.
      
      The missions opened schools and the local population sent their kids because they could see the advantages of “the white man’s magic” and they wanted some of that for themselves and their kids.
      
      Of course not all colonisers were equal. Brits are best. Protuguese maybe second, then Germans, Japanese and Belgians towards the bottom.
      
      Law and order (especially from Brits) brought levels of peace and prosperity never seen before.
      
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      October 3, 2024 10:59am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Megyn Kelly zeros in on Harris’ interview.
Harris has no plan for inflation control, she has no idea.

https://patriotpulse.net/megyn-kelly-destroyed-kamala-harris-with-one-crushing-piece-of-advice/?
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October 3, 2024 9:31am
- JackRabbit
  
  But like Biden, no doubt she has lots of adoring fans in cemeteries and cremation funeral plots, that will vote for her.
  
  Cole Sear (Sixth Sense) standing outside voting booths: “I see dead people’s voting ballots being brought in by the truck load.”
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:39am
G152

Gail Maney looking for justice?
No-one seems interested, they told their lies got people jailed and got on with the business of coppers.
Just another victim, another name for media to play with when its a slow news day.
Hopefully she will get compensation from the particular police
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October 3, 2024 9:34am
- cmm
  
  A bunch of gang members might or might not have killed eachother. Who cares?
  
  “Hopefully she will get compensation from the particular police”
  If there is compensation it will be from the taxpayer.
  
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  October 3, 2024 9:50am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

More assassination attempts on Trump before the Election?
It’s less than 5 weeks away. Many with TDS actually have a mental problem, so yes it could happen. The SS need to sharpen up. Trump is getting the SS dregs, the unexperienced. There is inside information being leaked – how did Routh know Trump was going to play golf when it was a last minute decision?

https://politicalactionalerts.com/majority-of-voters-see-assassination-attempts-on-trump-as-likely-ahead-of-2024-election/?
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October 3, 2024 9:47am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

RNC Focuses on Integrity; DNC Focuses on Hiding Corruption.
Officials are not removing non-citizens from the rolls.

https://freedomeagledaily.com/realloadednews/rnc-amps-up-pre-election-lawsuits-one-dem-group-raises-money-to-defend-secretaries-of-state/?
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October 3, 2024 9:52am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Seconds After Buying Taylor Swift Guitar, This MAGA Fan Makes a Perfect Patriotic Move. He hit Swift right where it hurts!

https://pjnewsletter.com/trump-taylor-swift-guitar/?

https://x.com/TONYxTWO/status/1840565321696002193
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October 3, 2024 10:06am
- David Garrett
  
  Sadly, it appears that Swift has more power in this election than you would think. If someone is really going to let a wealthy, liberal elite pop star dictate how they vote, perhaps they shouldn’t be voting in this election at all
  
  Amen to that.
  
  The Founding Fathers of the USA would be turning in their graves – once they understood what a “pop star” was. Some vapid singer’s opinion influencing people how they should vote…what next?
  
  We already have the absurdity of those on the left saying 16 year olds should be able to have a say in how the country is governed by way of the vote, while simultaneously not being fully criminally responsible until age 21 or even 25.
  
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  October 3, 2024 10:22am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    ” … absurdity of those on the left saying 16 year olds should be able to have a say in how the country is governed by way of the vote …”
    
    More than should DG – as pdm’s been banging on about the last few days you’ve got a LB council ACTUALLY giving non elected <16 year olds the right to vote (and be paid for the privilege) on council committee resolutions – bloody ridiculous!!
    
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    October 3, 2024 10:52am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Wonder how the Taxpayer’s Union bouncy castle at the Council went?
      
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      October 3, 2024 11:17am
- MCōs
  
  Some fool spent $NZ4000 on a toy guitar and hit it with a hammer
  I suppose that could be patriotic in Afghanistan
  
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  October 3, 2024 10:30am
- Biscuit
  
  I may have got this wrong, Steve, but ‘this MAGA fan’ bought a Swift guitar, for which she will receive some payment, destroyed it and you say that hits her right where it hurts.
  
  Really?
  
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  October 3, 2024 11:03am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I am just the messenger.
    
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    October 3, 2024 11:19am
- cmm
  
  I suspect this was some fundraiser. I doubt the $4000 went to Taylor Swift.
  
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  October 3, 2024 11:17am

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Health Target 1 – cancer waiting times

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