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September 19, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 19 September 2024

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General Debate

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NeverMindTheBollocks

Yesterday we were asked to feel sorry for Tory Whanau in her brave attempts to make ends meet. Today we’re told that WCC is increasing the number of parklets from 14 to 50.

What, you might ask, is a parklet? It’s the space where one or two onstreet carparks have been removed and handed over to an adjacent hospitality business. One grateful recipient commented that the parklet has transformed his trade, with the number of his tables growing from 5 to 13. Another business has reportedly invested up to $30k in decking out his parklet.

And the fee for this ratepayer beneficence? Just $197 for the first year, and $99 thereafter.

So, we have a situation where the city loses thousands in parking revenue in return for a pittance. The recipients know this, of course, hence their investment in the site. Meanwhile, rates are up 20%.

Sorry, Tory, no pay increase for you this year.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350418954/parklets-completely-expanded-wellington-businesses-amid-industry-struggle
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September 19, 2024 8:00am
- cmm
  
  Tory is a party girl who likes to go out. Of course the cafes and bars are going to get a leg up.
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:18am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I believe the first 14 parklets were simply handed out to the first people to apply. You’d have to think that there’s now a disorderly queue.l for the new money fountain.
    
    The scope for corruption would be substantial, I would say. No-charge meals, eh.
    
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    September 19, 2024 9:29am
  - imalwaysright
    
    I’m not sure she has made much effort to help hospitality.
    The council tends to oppose bar licenses.
    It looks like her green ideology takes precedence in that social gathering is to be discouraged lest the hoi polloi start comparing notes.
    
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    September 19, 2024 10:08am
    - cmm
      
      ” The council tends to oppose bar licenses.”
      
      That will help people who already have bars – some of whom are likely in her social group.
      
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      September 19, 2024 12:33pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Scratching a bit, but from what we’ve seen of her psyche its entirely possible that she is playing favourites. Well spotted !
        
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        September 19, 2024 12:45pm
      - Groggy
        
        No it includes renewals, WCC blanket oppose every liquor license renewal on the grounds of alcohol harm. Many of them end up (after incurring legal costs for a hearing) getting renewed with reduced hours. Then the Council bemoan a dead city center. mmm what could be causing that I wonder?
        
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        September 19, 2024 4:50pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Didn’t she quit drinking? Most folk who do that also quit ‘partying’.
    
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    September 19, 2024 10:24am
    - Flossie
      
      To be fair it certainly is possible to party (and enjoy yourself) without consuming alcohol. Giving up or never being a drinker doesn’t mean you have to become an anti social hermit.
      
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      September 19, 2024 10:50am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Certainly. However most alcoholics when they quit drinking, make major changes to their partying habits. They don’t just continue to ‘party’ minus the alcohol.
        
        My point is that if she quit drinking, she is most unlikely to still be a “party girl”.
        
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        September 19, 2024 1:37pm
    - greybeard
      
      So she says. Who is to know?
      
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      September 19, 2024 11:22am
      - Colville
        
        There are thousands of people around Wellington carrying cameras in their pockets to take a photo should they see their beloved *cough* mayor with a cheeky chardy in hand….
        
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        September 19, 2024 1:17pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I would take her word for it unless she is spotted drinking.
        
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        September 19, 2024 1:38pm
    - Anthony Melchett
      
      I will bet you a laying hen that she is still drinking.
      
      People like her don’t stop, they just hide it better untill the next blowout.
      
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      September 19, 2024 8:17pm
- Gussy Fink-Nottle
  
  Why do we need ‘parklets’ when studies* have shown that removing car parks increases business activity?
  
  *One study, with limited oversite, somewhere else, a long time ago (that conveniently negated the inconvenience of surveying real businesses, here, and now).
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:31am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I should add – one of the prime reasons advanced for cycleways replacing suburban on-street parking is that street space is too valuable just for people to park cars there.
  
  If that were general policy then you’d expect the beneficiaries of parklets to be paying to Council a rent that’s some percentage of the CBD commercial rate.
  
  Could it be that parklets are simply another element in Council’s war on cars (EVs or not)?
  
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  September 19, 2024 11:23am
  - Taieri
    
    street space is too valuable just for people to park cars there
    ———–
    
    Taking this idea to its logical conclusion there should be no roads as the space taken is to valuable for it to be used by people driving their cars for undiscernible reasons.
    
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    September 19, 2024 12:32pm
- Hugh Jarse
  
  The headline in the Dom Post online yesterday raised Tory’s financial dilemma yesterday asked if Wellington was an expensive place to live. The totally wrong but not unexpected proposition from the media. The real question was why can a single person on $190000 a Year, with a free car and other unknown expenses is not able to manage her finances like many other less well paid people with families can manage to control their spending.
  
  It also of course raised the issues of her ADHD and autism. So a Green ideological driven mayor in charge of the capital city, who has ADHD and autism, has substance abuse issues and cannot control her spending. Ideal mayoral candidate for Wellington and will no doubt be voted in again in the coming local body election.
  
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  September 19, 2024 12:24pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  In Christchurch, there is very limited parking in the Central City on streets.
  
  However there are several multi story parking buildings, some owned by the council, with casual parking at reasonable prices.
  
  https://ccc.govt.nz/transport/getting-around/parking/carpark
  
  If I head into the city by car, I would never mess about trying to park on the street.
  
  IIRC Wellington only has limited casual parking in parking buildings and it can be expensive
  
  It is a long time since I have driven a car into the Wellington CBD. TBH I would never even contemplate it these days. I would only travel into Wellington on public transport.
  
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  September 19, 2024 1:50pm
goNZ1

The deadly wave of pager blasts across Lebanon has shown that Israel can tamper with Hezbollah’s logistics chains, former CIA officer Robert Baer told CNN, saying it was something “that’s typically not easy for anyone” to do.
“It’s devastating for Hezbollah and takes an enormous amount of skill which no country in the world, probably not even the United States, could pull this off,” Baer said.

✝ Exodus 17:16 “And he (Moses) said, For the hand is on the throne of Jah; Jehovah will have war with Amalek from generation to generation!”

Psalm 2 v4 ‘’ He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
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September 19, 2024 8:03am
- Philview
  
  Although it is fairly obvious, has Israel actually confirmed it is responsible. TVNZ News last was running as ‘fact’ that Israel hijacked a shipment of pagers. They reported that scenario but has it actually been proven yet.
  
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  September 19, 2024 8:38am
  - sirknz
    
    It is the MSM, like they need proof of anything…
    
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    September 19, 2024 3:59pm
- G152
  
  And they are calling all their members on the same technology to not use the technology……
  
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  September 19, 2024 8:39am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Breaking: today the walkie talkies have blown up as well
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:06am
  - kevn
    
    G… and everything else.
    https://x.com/NiohBerg/status/1836443015289704594
    
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    September 19, 2024 12:05pm
- Grunter
  
  And there we have it – religion once again driving nutters to war. Each one with their own ‘invisible man in the sky’ telling them the other is evil and must be killed…..”from generation to generation”.
  
  There is no solution to this mess……
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:16am
  - mandk
    
    Israel is not waging a religious war.
    
    It is fighting for its existence against a range of foes who are inspired by the belief that Allah approves of their desire to wipe Israel off the map.
    
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    September 19, 2024 1:53pm
  - newview
    
    Completely agree Grunter
    
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    September 19, 2024 3:23pm
  - NoFax
    
    Maybe you could round up all the religious folk into some sort of training centre and educate them on the concept of evil – might take a few days so it might be an overnight thing. Be fun like a camp – might need a catchy name though.
    
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    September 19, 2024 3:32pm
- cmm
  
  This was more than just tampering with supply chains. This would appear to be tampering with the manufacturing of products in that supply chain. That’s a whole level more complex.
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:19am
  - I remember when
    
    I think we have to consider the dangers that could result from this attack.
    Are we back in the letter bomb days for countries like the United States?
    Could it disrupt the entire supply chain for the electronics industry?
    
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    September 19, 2024 9:49am
    - kowtow
      
      Yes we must consider the implications………
      
      ……..I hope Hezblowup and their Mad Mullah Masters do the right thing disposing of all that toxic e waste .So’s not to upset all their screaming Green type supporters like Thunderberg and Co.
      
      Badoom , tish.
      
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      September 19, 2024 1:07pm
    - cmm
      
      ” Could it disrupt the entire supply chain for the electronics industry?”
      
      Huh? How do you figure that out?
      
      They didn’t bomb every pager and walkie talkie in existence, just those going to Hezbolla (and maybe a few more).
      
      They put some explosives in the device – most likely inside a fake battery and put those in a specific batch of devices, along with modified software to trigger the explosion. This has zero implications for the rest of the industry.
      
      Unless you are a Hezbolla operative (or maybe Huthi etc) don’t worry. Your phone is not going to explode.
      
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      September 19, 2024 5:20pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    It’s almost far fetched, they would have to have organisation in Asia, followed up by organisation in Belgium. How you peace that together plus know that those very pagers are going to Hezbolah troops is beyond me
    
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    September 19, 2024 10:53am
    - cmm
      
      It is almost certain that the software on these pagers was also modified to cause the explosion on reception of a trigger message.
      If someone was not on the Helbollah network then they would not have received the message and are safe.
      
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      September 19, 2024 12:37pm
    - cmm
      
      It is quite likely that Hezbolah are somewhat sanctioned and are buying equipment through black market sources (aka sanctions busting agents).
      
      As a result, the products don’t get traded directly through the normal sales channels, but end up being handled in poky offices etc.
      
      South Africa did the same during apartheid too. For example, at one stage almost all the fancy electronics test equipment (spectrum analysers etc) being used for military development (radar, radios, missiles,…) was going though a bedroom office of an agent in Swaziland using his garage as storage.
      
      Hewlett Packard’s biggest customer in the whole of Africa (and maybe the whole Southern Hemisphere too) was this little operation in Swaziland.
      
      This could make it a bit easier to become the agent for such an order and infiltrate the chain or get access via bribery, blackmail etc.
      
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      September 19, 2024 5:33pm
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Given that:
    
    1 the pagers seem to be sourced from a shell company based in an Eastern European country (cant remember which one)
    2 the pagers were built in Europe under license
    3 the sourcing company is a shell compnay
    
    It would seem Mossad built the logistics chain amd controlled the build and supply from scratch…
    
    To pull this off they have smokescreened Hizbollahs due diligence checking very effectively….
    
    Some people in Hizbollah either were complicit or corrupted by cash and new identity or just plain incompetent….
    
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    September 19, 2024 11:33am
- AitchW
  
  Hmmmm quoting the Christian bible to praise a Jewish attack on a Muslim target?
  Maybe this sort of religious jingoism is part of the problem…
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:55am
  - fernglas
    
    Umm, isn’t the old testament the Hebrew Bible?
    
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    September 19, 2024 12:03pm
    - AitchW
      
      Only the first 5 books. So Exodus is, Psalms isn’t.
      
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      September 19, 2024 3:39pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Nettanyahu may be trying to provoke conflict whilst he still has Dem American support.
  There’s a good chance Trump will tell him to cool it or else he’s on his own.
  
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  September 19, 2024 10:13am
  - Matt Long
    
    The progressive Dems hate Netenyahu like they hate Trump. They’ve been siding with Hamas for a long while.
    
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    September 19, 2024 2:10pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Is that why they have parked their aircraft carriers in the eastern Mediterranean ?
      
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      September 19, 2024 2:54pm
tknorriss

Hezbollah fighter after a pager malfunction: “Give me a hand would you…”
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September 19, 2024 8:04am
- kowtow
  
  Abdool ; ‘Brother ,the pagers are compromised switch to walky talky ……’
  
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  September 19, 2024 8:08am
  - Colville
    
    Yip they are going to be looking very carefully when the hook up two empty tin cans with a piece of string to have a chat…
    
    “how could this go wrong?”
    
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    September 19, 2024 9:19am
  - AitchW
    
    Just the sight of any battery powered device will be a powerful laxative in Beirut today.
    
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    September 19, 2024 10:19am
- artemisia
  
  Strictly hypothetically, what would be acceptable ways of reducing a designated terrorist organisation’s capability to conduct further attacks?
  
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  September 19, 2024 8:21am
  - Paulus
    
    What has not been commented upon is that only Hesbollah Terrorists were issued with these Pagers.
    Hense selectivity !
    
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    September 19, 2024 8:38am
  - tknorriss
    
    This looks like a preemtive strike to me. It looks like the Israelis have had this set up ready to go for a few months now. Perhaps they knew something was in the wind, so decided to pull the trigger now to disrupt what they were planning.
    
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    September 19, 2024 9:11am
    - cmm
      
      Agreed.
      It would have taken many months to just do the R&D, then access either the pager manufacturers or the container carrying the pagers and modify them, then allow them to be distributed throughout the organisation.
      
      They would have been sitting on this a long time and would only pull the pin if they thought there was a huge value in doing so (eg. a massive escalation was imminent).
      
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      September 19, 2024 9:25am
      - Colville
        
        Its fascinating.
        Taiwanese branded pagers but supposedly made in Hungary under licence.
        But now the Hungarian factory says the pagers were never actually in the country… so what they sourced them from a 3rd party? as someone said yesterday Cohen Brothers?? 🙂
        My bet is the pagers were made from scratch in Israel … its the only way the inside of them could be reorganised to accommodate the explosive.
        
        If Zuru Toys can come up with a idea, design it, build the moulds, make it, package it and ship it China to USA in 10 days I am sure a pager can be reengineered in the same time.
        
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        September 19, 2024 10:02am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        They need logistics in 2 seperate continents
        
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        September 19, 2024 10:54am
      - crackle
        
        I reckon once the order was placed they built a modified set as an exact match then pulled a switcharoo somewhere in transit.
        
        The companies who have been affected should really be due some form of compensation its a massive reputation hit.
        
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        September 19, 2024 12:13pm
      - Colville
        
        Crackle.
        Would you want to be the lawyer trying a claim against Mosad for brand impact?
        You would be down to post it notes as the safest form of communication!
        😁
        
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        September 19, 2024 3:52pm
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Hizbollah might gave been planning a large strike for Oct 7…. A one year anniversary attack….
      
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      September 19, 2024 11:34am
    - John Loveridge
      
      Something along those lines was reported yesterday. I can’t remember where I read it, or the exact details, but essentially the Israelis were sitting tight then decided to push the big red button when they got wind that their infiltration might be compromised. I’ll try and find the link in my browser history.
      
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      September 19, 2024 1:10pm
  - Mr Nobody NZ
    
    Hard to pull a trigger or push a detonator if you don’t have fingers or a hand.
    
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    September 19, 2024 10:37am
- Matt Long
  
  Phase two of the operation has began, with two way radios, tablets, car radios and even salary power devices exploding.
  Interestingly Hezbollah was accused of targeting the eyes of dissidents in Iran during the recent anti government protests, and now there are reports over 500 terrorists have lost their sight.
  He who sows the wind shall reap the whirlwind.
  
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  September 19, 2024 8:24am
  - rangitoto
    
    I read that all these devices were purchased from an Israel owned company based in Bucharest which manufactured the pagers and maybe other devices under licence. So the Hezbollah paid Israel for getting blown up.
    
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    September 19, 2024 8:44am
    - mandk
      
      Genius.
      
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      September 19, 2024 1:58pm
  - slightlyrighty
    
    next will be exploding carrier pigeons….
    
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    September 19, 2024 8:53am
    - kowtow
      
      Don’t larf .
      That region is so full of nutters that this story is just one of several …….
      
      ‘According to certain media reports, Sudanese officials suspect that a vulture “captured” in early December was spying for Israel, after it was found carrying GPS equipment marked “Israel Nature Service”’
      
      https://www.france24.com/en/20121213-sudan-captures-israeli-spy-vulture
      
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      September 19, 2024 3:23pm
  - Flossie
    
    I have to ask – what is a salary power device?
    
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    September 19, 2024 10:52am
    - Colville
      
      Solar power device.
      
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      September 19, 2024 10:56am
    - All_on_Red
      
      solar
      
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      September 19, 2024 11:02am
- Kiwiguy
  
  Most pagers are held somewhere around the waist – close to the users groin.
  I’d suggest lots of Hezbollah members have been, um, dismembered.
  You could say Israel went for the low hanging fruit…
  
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  September 19, 2024 8:33am
- igm
  
  Mossad might also be sending a message to those outspoken supporters of Islam. If I were in the shoes of a lot of faux politicians and others of public profile calling for the demise of Israel I would be very careful.
  
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  September 19, 2024 8:55am
kowtow

You really have to wonder about that police union guy .

Gang patch ban ; intrusive and confrontational , not enough resources .

Licensed by the police firearms owners ; open slather.

Looks to me like the police union boyz don’t like hard work . Perhaps they’d be better off in orchards , picking the low hanging fruit.
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September 19, 2024 8:11am
- Paulus
  
  Like all Union Leaders he would only get more money for himself dependent upon what he gets his members.
  Tough ain’t it ?
  
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  September 19, 2024 8:40am
- igm
  
  Police still have not done a thing to quell MM or BP
  . . . are they exempt?
  
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  September 19, 2024 8:56am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  You want to hear the anger from Labour MPs
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:07am
  - AitchW
    
    Willy Jackson in the house yesterday referring to the government as “you morons”. Surely that has to be unparliamentary language and subject to sanction?
    Or does the treaty give those with 12% maori blood a special right to insult those they disagree with?
    
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    September 19, 2024 12:30pm
- imalwaysright
  
  For the last fifty years we have been paying the police to get rid of the gangs.
  They just get worse every year.
  We aren’t asking the cops to cure cancer, just catch the bad guys.
  
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  September 19, 2024 10:17am
- Damocles11
  
  Unions have been revolting since October 2o23 and the Police union is no different.
  
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  September 19, 2024 11:41am
Cassandra

New Zealand was one of 124 countries which voted for a Palestinian- drafted resolution calling for Israel to leave all occupied territories within 12 months. UK and 42 others abstained; US and 13 others voted no. The vote to censure Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah ec is scheduled for ……… never.
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September 19, 2024 8:13am
- Matt Long
  
  18 years ago there was a UN resolution calling for Hezbollah to be disarmed.
  Apparently NZ also recently voted for an arms embargo on Israel at the UN.
  
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  September 19, 2024 8:18am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Why does “We’re so small and the issue is so huge that nothing we can do will make a difference” – constitute a reason for doing nothing about climate change, but not for going along with the majority in a wholly non-consequential vote at the UN?
  
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  September 19, 2024 8:27am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Have you got a link showing which other countries voted the same way thanks?
  
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  September 19, 2024 8:29am
  - Mod88
    
    The UN General Assembly approved the Palestinian proposal calling for sanctions and an arms embargo against the State of Israel. The proposal was supported by 124 countries, opposed by 14, and 43 abstained.
    
    Alongside Israel, the countries that opposed the proposal were Argentina, Czech Republic, Fiji, Hungary, Malawi, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Tonga, Tuvalu, and the United States.
    
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    September 19, 2024 10:28am
- Chuck Bird
  
  This gives the details I was looking for.
  
  UN votes 124-14 to strip Israel of right to self-defense in Gaza, West Bank
  
  https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-820725
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:17am
  - Cassandra
    
    Thanks Chuck. I couldn’t find the full list. Note that Australia and Canada abstained. Why does NZ do this? Under a National Government, ffs!!
    
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    September 19, 2024 9:29am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Peters has full responsibility of foreign affairs, let’s not keep blaming Nats for everything
      
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      September 19, 2024 9:43am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        That is erroneous.
        
        New Zealand Foreign Policy is approved by Cabinet. That would include New Zealand’s policy towards Israel. Winston Peters has no authority to make that up.
        
        https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/media-and-resources/proactive-release-new-zealands-foreign-policy-cab-24-min-0033
        
        You think that Chris Luxon discovers how New Zealand voted at the UN by reading about it in the newspaper?
        
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        September 19, 2024 1:22pm
      - waikatosinger
        
        However I think it is reasonable to say that the main focus of the cabinet is probably not on foreign affairs, and that they will likely defer to Peters unless and until he stuffs it up.
        
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        September 19, 2024 5:12pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      I wonder who is to blame – Peters or Luxon.
      
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      September 19, 2024 10:42am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Peters has full running of the foreign affairs portfolio
        
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        September 19, 2024 10:55am
      - JimBobJoe
        
        MFAT.. That dept is above political control as they showed when whiteanting that reforminCE apointed by Key from ourside the MFAT old boys, we are the smartest in Public Service, network…
        
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        September 19, 2024 11:36am
      - pdm
        
        G Luxon is still his boss and has oversight or perhaps a better way to put it.
        
        Luxon is in charge and he is not shy about telling New Zealanders that.
        
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        September 19, 2024 12:41pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Peters has full running of the foreign affairs portfolio”
        
        Again, that is a fanciful statement.
        
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        September 19, 2024 1:24pm
- cmm
  
  All this voting is just virtue signalling. It doesn’t really do anything.
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:55am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Sadly, it encourages terrorist.
    
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    September 19, 2024 10:41am
- Blue Max
  
  What has happened to Winston in this instance? National might have pushed for or negotiated the ‘yes’ vote against Israel like McCully did historically.
  
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  September 19, 2024 12:16pm
- PurplePen
  
  Chloe Swarbrick, bless her organic cotton socks, requested an urgent debate in the House on Israel’s actions against Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon. Presume she didn’t recognise Hezbollah are terrorists. The Speaker denied her. Ah, the innocence of youf. And this person is the leader of a party in our parliament.
  
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  September 19, 2024 2:39pm
Scooter

Unbelievable, home D and name suppression. The judge needs to answer why this guy was let off so easy.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/tauranga-man-found-with-child-sex-abuse-images-and-videos-gets-home-detention/6EUHPS75HZGGJCRMHQEMAB5E4Q/
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September 19, 2024 8:24am
- Gravelroad
  
  Agree.
  There must be something more to this for a pedophile criminal to be receiving this level of judicial protection.
  From the report:
  “The maximum penalty for each charge is 10 years in prison.”
  
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  September 19, 2024 8:39am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Kids in NZ seem to be at the bottom of the food chain.
    Steal some paua or kick a puppy and its all on, torture and murder an infant or use them for sexual gratification and you get home D or nothing.
    
    Maybe we should put the policing of our childrens safety in the hands of DOC and the SPCA.
    
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    September 19, 2024 10:29am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Are we just following in the footsteps of others?
  
  Huw Edwards in the UK only got a 6month suspended sentence for his offence………
  
  Some dude got 18 months prison for being at a protest and mean tweeting……
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:07am
- Anthony Melchett
  
  Amateur. Normally they have thousands of objectionable images.
  
  No doubt he will bolster his collection while sitting in the comfort of his house for 7 months
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:27am
- Inandout
  
  Scooter, a friend of a friend still carries weight in legal circles.
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:30am
vand

I’m waiting for the leftists to protest -“Free Lebanon from the cancer of Hezbollah”
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September 19, 2024 8:46am
cmm

If you go climbing on Mt Cook during the tail end of winter and are so ill prepared that you end up getting frostbite, then you don’t deserve saving.

Irresponsible, entitled people like these put search and rescue people’s lives at risk. Absolute bullshit!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350420867/injured-climbers-likely-spend-second-night-aoraki-mount-cook
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September 19, 2024 9:16am
- Cassandra
  
  Perhaps giving them a bill would be a better idea? Who do you suggest would make the decision to rescue or not? You’d leave people without life jackets to drown? Judge not etc.
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:31am
  - cmm
    
    I think it comes down to the risk imposed on the rescuers. There’s no real bill that can be paid for that.
    
    Sure you can charge them $5000 for helicopter expenses, but how about $50,000 for the risk imposed on the rescuers?
    
    If a bunch of idiots go out into an oncoming storm without their lifejackets then let them drown. Why do they deserve someone else’s life to be put at risk?
    
    Same deal mountaineering when there is a storm approaching. Sure, they might have had a fall and someone got hurt etc, but going into such conditions without survival equipment is inexcusable.
    
    It doesn’t take much to prevent frost bite etc. If you haven’t got the skills and the equipment then don’t go.
    
    People in NZ have far too much nanny-state entitlement. I can do whatever dumb shit I want and someone must bail me out – be that rescuing me from a sinking boat in a storm, handing out abortion pills or handing out the dole and free housing.
    
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    September 19, 2024 9:44am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “It doesn’t take much to prevent frost bite etc. If you haven’t got the skills and the equipment then don’t go.”
      
      I don’t know the circumstances of these climbers. However, if you are trapped in an ice cave in a blizzard for days, my understanding is that there is nothing you could do to prevent frost bite. Experienced mountaineers have been losing parts of limbs since forever. 😫
      
      Also, climbers have been rescued from Mount Cook every year for decades. Dozens have died. Part of life in New Zealand.
      
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      September 19, 2024 9:58am
      - kowtow
        
        Given the amount of media attention given to various recent “science” prognostications about global boiling , they won’t have long to shelter in those ice caves and before you know it there’ll be palm trees swaying in what used to be the snow /tree line ……
        
        ……or given how dreadful sea level rise is , they could wait and the surf patrol ‘ll be along momentarily.
        
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        September 19, 2024 10:08am
      - cmm
        
        Yes, experienced mountaineers lose body parts. One of my friends is missing a few fingers. This was entirely down to some risk choices he made (including not using recommended equipment).
        
        But when they do this they know they are pushing the risk boundaries and accept the consequences.
        
        There is a huge risk difference between rescuing climbers on a nice sunny day and during a winter storm.
        
        I am not opposed to rescue per se, but I am opposed to people taking extreme risks (eg. deliberately heading off into a bad storm without safety gear) and expecting to be bailed out if things go pear shaped.
        
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        September 19, 2024 10:14am
      - Tarquin North
        
        If you call up the coastguard for help and aren’t a member you pay. Plenty of offshore yachts don’t carry radios because they don’t want to put anyone else in danger if something goes wrong. Paying your rescuers is the least you should do.
        
        5 2
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        September 19, 2024 10:20am
    - Flossie
      
      Personal Responsibility seems to no longer be part of our lives. You name it – if it goes wrong, then somebody else is to blame.
      
      14 3
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      September 19, 2024 10:17am
    - Skippytony
      
      My Father in Law built a batch opposite a boat ramp in a sleepy little village.
      He & I would often sit on his front deck watching people launch and retrieve their boats.
      We would often see people going out in 15-16ft dingies, 2 or 3 adults and 2 or 3 littlies. No life jackets, no radios. Going out ignoring weather and coastwatch warnings. Irresponsible beyond belief.
      
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      September 19, 2024 1:07pm
  - MCōs
    
    “Who do you suggest would make the decision to rescue or not?”
    The government could appoint some sort of life and death commissioner who could weigh up the various factors, see what the families could contribute.
    
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    September 19, 2024 12:55pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Where did it state they were unprepared?
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:45am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  That idiot Helen Clark went high into the southern Alps at Easter thinking she knew better, this was straight after she shut down several high country alps including the St James park station. She had to be rescued in the peak of a huge snow storm, and thought how does it snow at that time of the year ffs, she was in an area that can see snow any day of the year
  
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  September 19, 2024 9:46am
- Colville
  
  Chill out 🙂
  
  These guys are parked up in a hut with plenty of food etc.
  
  Have just called out so people know they are safe but will be late, no one is rushing up the hill for them.
  
  Lets hope they have a deck of cards!
  
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  September 19, 2024 10:46am
- Master Mariner
  
  Reminds me of one fascinating book about Human Survival and spirit to survive.
  Made into a film as well.
  “Touching the Void”.
  
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  September 19, 2024 2:04pm
I remember when

Yesterday there was zero rainfall recorded at both the Palmerston North Airport and City stations.
However, our neighbour’s roof revealed spots of rain on at least two occasions and was wet on another.
Its been that sort of weather for the last two months.
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September 19, 2024 9:34am
Observant Octagenarian

Went to a workshop yesterday where a local police officer made a presentation on road safety.
When asked about the proposed speed limit increase, he said that there was no problem on modern roads (i.e Southern Motorway) but in order to manage it we MUST increase the fines for exceeding these limits.
Seems a fair request. Why not?
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September 19, 2024 9:42am
- judith8409121
  
  i dunno -maybe because speeding is a term representing going above a speed limit set by the government. just because the government increases the limit doesn’t mean they should increase the fines.
  Really if your 5 kms above 110 its less percentage difference – so the fines should go down.
  
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  September 19, 2024 12:41pm
- MCōs
  
  Following on from that you would need to increase the chances of not only catching people exceeding the limit, but those who drive dangerously within the limit.
  That means more police, who are in short supply, patrolling the highways
  
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  September 19, 2024 12:44pm
- bennerg
  
  We were in Ireland a few years ago with 120km/hr speed limit on the motorway. No problems.
  
  On the 110 km/hr expressways are there many accidents with people going 110 – 120 (of whom there are many)? I do not think so.
  
  Accidents are usually caused by people impaired with alcohol, drugs, and a mental issue that causes them to make bad decisions (emotion, ego etc). Sadly there is no radar gun to detect those people. Best to focus on the real causes.
  
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  September 19, 2024 4:16pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Because the new limit will be 110 kmph. On roads like the Waikato Expressway, that ain’t fast. Anyone who has driven on the autobahn knows that roads like the Expressway are easily good for 140 kmph or more.
  
  And remember, that’s not mandatory. If you want to travel at 90, just stay in the left hand lane.
  
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  September 19, 2024 7:45pm
Swifty

Do others find this piece lacking?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/money/350421324/why-nzs-rich-pay-so-much-less-tax-similar-countries

I just don’t follow the arguments. Rashbrooke compares income tax rates and tax yields but there’s no mention of our GST, another significant part of our tax regime. How can you look at income tax in isolation?

A poor article. So much is left unsaid and there is no wider context explained.

Oh and ‘Tax Justice Aotearoa’ – FFS. Sounds like an astroturf organisation for the NZ Labour Party. Someone should ask Mike for his view.
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September 19, 2024 9:43am
- malinnz
  
  This article is indeed lacking, either through being deliberately misleading or simple laziness.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/528379/wealthy-people-pay-lower-tax-in-nz-than-in-similar-states-study-shows
  
  This same article in RNZ comes with a helpful table on tax rates in different scenarios.
  
  Even if we do look at personal income tax rates alone the table uses an effective tax rate of 33% for NZ but a BASE tax rate for all other countries.
  
  Take Belgium and Denmark for example, the 2 highest tax rates in the table at 55% and 51% respectively. While the base tax rates are as above, with all sorts of deductions and allowances the effective tax rate is closer to 25-35%, not far off and in some scenarios lower than NZ.
  
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  September 19, 2024 12:51pm
  - Swifty
    
    Thank you very much.
    
    I’ve noticed some try to make hay from the high personal income tax rates post-war in the UK and particularly the US, but never, ever mention the deductions galore present in those times too and which lowered a person’s tax liabilities considerably.
    
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    September 19, 2024 2:27pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  “Sounds like an astroturf organisation for the NZ Labour Party.” – Surely not 🙂
  
  https://www.tjanz.org/executive_committee
  
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  September 19, 2024 1:03pm
  - AitchW
    
    Wth is “tax justice”? Bloody lefties stick “justice”behind any noun and somehow it validates their unhinged drivel.
    
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    September 19, 2024 1:36pm
    - Swifty
      
      It’s dishonest and quite transparently so.
      
      It’s the same as when they talk about people paying tax that’s ‘fair’ – they always, always mean just ‘more’.
      
      Same with the ‘Fair Pay’ legislation, if they were honest they would just call it the ‘More Pay’ legislation.
      
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      September 19, 2024 2:29pm
    - judith8409121
      
      surely its Aotearoa tax justice by now
      keep that shuffle going
      
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      September 19, 2024 6:53pm
  - Mike
    
    Trying to copy the Taxpayers’ ‘Union’ but without the cool gimmicks.
    
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    September 19, 2024 2:47pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Two people who live off the backs of others wanting to protect their money fountain.
    
    Just ignore them.
    
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    September 19, 2024 7:50pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Oddly enough, on today’s Morning Report Ingrid Hipkiss actually asked a hard question of the activist pushing this barrow. She pointed out that NZ’s overall tax take was more than many European countries, to which said activist could not meaningfully reply.
  
  Credit where credit’s due, and all that.
  
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  September 19, 2024 7:49pm
I remember when

Taonga: Anything you want it to be.
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September 19, 2024 9:54am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden and Afghanistan.
He ignored military advice. Even NATO disagreed with him. Have to wonder why he did this. Who was in his ear? Obama?

https://thepatriotexpress.com/therightwingclub/damning-report-reveals-biden-ignored-military-advice-in-botched-afghanistan-withdrawal/?
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September 19, 2024 10:12am
- cmm
  
  Biden is (still) the commander in chief. That means he is the head of the military. That means he will sometimes overrule the advice of the generals etc.
  
  However that should be very rare.
  
  “Who was in his ear? Obama?”
  Well Harris claims to have been the last one in the room with him….
  
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  September 19, 2024 10:23am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Jack Smith. Yes the “Special Prosecutor.”
He refuses to investigate illegal immigrants whose names are on voter rolls.
The Democrats cheating. Wonder how Jack Smith will fare under a Trump Presidency?
He is in for a shafting along with the crooked Judges.

https://rightsideoffers.com/redbloodedconservative/jack-smith-refused-to-investigate-reports-of-illegals-voting-in-elections/?
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September 19, 2024 11:07am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The Climate Change hoax.
It is not CO2, it is sunlight and clouds.
BTW, what about that hole in the ozone? All quiet about that.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/sunlight-and-clouds-not-co2-drive-earths-climate-new-study-finds-5719394?
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September 19, 2024 11:12am
- PurplePen
  
  Found a link to a version where you don’t need to sign up to read. Interesting finding. Good to see where it goes.
  
  https://www.siskiyou.news/2024/09/17/sunlight-and-clouds-not-co2-drives-earths-climate-new-study-finds/
  
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  September 19, 2024 1:11pm
Jack5

Stuff headlining GDP fall of 0.2 per cent in three months ended June 30.

To keep the quarterly fall in perspective have a look at the graph link below. GDP began sliding in the last quarters of the Labour regime.

Labour virtuallly took the doors off immigration, clearly with the goal of getting some sort of GDP growth, hell or high water. They ignored that it’s GDP per capita that counts. (Consider India’s economic rank: GDP – No. 3 in world; GDP per capita, No. 150.)

The “fill up the country with people” approach has failed.

https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/gross-domestic-product-gdp
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September 19, 2024 11:25am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Yes but the MSM will somehow frame it all as National’s fault.
  
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  September 19, 2024 12:27pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Two different takes in stuff’s coverage:
  TPU view:
  “However, Statistics New Zealand data on GDP per capita reveals that this has contracted by 4.6% over seven consecutive quarters and this exceeds the decline of 4.2% over the first seven quarters of the global financial crisis. It took another six quarters after this for GDP per capita to again rise consistently, signalling real economic growth had finally returned.”
  
  Labour view:
  The Labour party says the National Government’s decisions have hindered, not helped the economy.
  
  “GDP figures released today show our economy has shrunk by 0.2 percent, or 0.5 percent per capita in the second quarter of this year,” Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said.
  
  “The data confirms the New Zealand economy has failed to grow since the coalition government took office.
  …
  … etc
  Funny how she fails to mention that all metrics had already moved negatively or were forecast to do so as a consequence of labour’s fiscal (mis)management.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350421425/nz-economy-declines-gdp-update-shows-02-fall
  
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  September 19, 2024 12:27pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    These muppets also leaked an internal poll showing the complete opposite of all other polls, they say clients, but I hear the unions are the client
    
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    September 19, 2024 12:36pm
  - Jack5
    
    And the nation’s current account deficit remains unsustainably wide at 6.7 per cent of GDP.
    
    This unsustainable level has attracted the attention of international rating agencies, David Hargreaves reports at Interest.co.nz
    
    Labour-Green madness has us importing shiploads of Indonesian coal in favour of our own, and natural gas, when there are untapped resources off the NZ coastline.
    
    Hargreaves:
    
    https://www.interest.co.nz/economy/129790/deficit-between-what-we-earn-overseas-and-what-we-spend-has-remained-67-gdp-contrary
    
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    September 19, 2024 1:37pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      Admittedly it’s easier to organise these days ( you can sell (move) cash if you got it vs goods), but how long before we get back to the the good old 40/50’s days where if you wanted, to say buy a new car, you needed to contribute to the purchase with foreign funds. Not impossible unless the country as a whole wakes up to the need for fx streams to replace those we’ve lost, and quite frankly I don’t think tourism is going to cut it – but nuh – mining, drilling for exchangeable commodities etc … bad! Reducing imports only one side really.
      
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      September 19, 2024 2:53pm
      - David Garrett
        
        70 and still: “Overseas funds” were still required to buy a new car well into the 70’s…as a kid I never quite understood what that meant, but my father told me “overseas funds” were something farmers had…I’m sure it was more complicated than that since doctors and lawyers would have wanted new cars too.
        
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        September 19, 2024 4:53pm
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        DG – it was generally the farmers who had the new cars as they would sell their produce ( meat/wool mainly) directly to British agents/firms and get paid in pounds sterling to pay for the car, a new one each year if they wanted to 🙂 . So in reality it was more about access to foreign ‘cash’ due to NZ’s currency laws of the day rather than wealth. In country (i.e. NZ) you could only buy 1 BP per day (might have been week?) at the post office so for average Joe B it took a long time and effort to save enough buy a new car. The other alternative was for the professional (your lawyer-dentist ) to go the UK to provide their service, buy the new car with their british wages, use it a bit there and then ship it back home when they returned. A sister of mine who was in health did that. Probably ( guessing a bit here ) it’s a bit like your current situation where you’re likely getting paid in pa’anga. Difference is that these days you can easily convert the pa’anga to NZD and use your earnings back in NZ rather than have to buy stuff in Tonga and ship it back. Hope that helps explain.
        PS. My old man used to get quite pissed at a couple of his more ostentatious farmer mates – he could afford to buy a new car, but his business type was not readily exportable hence no fx and they would give him heaps about it.
        
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        September 19, 2024 7:45pm
      - fightingtemeraire
        
        The National Bank was listed on the NZ and UK stock exchanges. You could buy shares in NZ, take the certificates with you to the UK and sell the shares and you had Forex.
        
        That is why the National Bank became overseas owned.
        
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        September 19, 2024 7:56pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      we could nearly halve that if we were self sufficient in oil and gas.
      
      Coal-to-liquid in southland would achieve that with no risk.
      
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      September 19, 2024 3:23pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Experts predicted 0.4
  
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  September 19, 2024 12:35pm
RRM

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September 19, 2024 12:20pm
cmm

Bail checks are blamed for what led to this career crim’s death.

“A culturally mediated approach to bail monitoring might have helped prevent a man being fatally shot by police”

No doubt that is going to be the recommendation. No more bail checks for cultural reasons. Can’t be treading on a crim’s mana.

“To form the opinions in his report Cavney said he “relied very much on whānau” members he spoke with at an “extensive” December 2022 hui, and witness statements.”

Any of them motivated to lie I wonder?

We’re lining up for an absurd situation where people are going to be released on bail, but the cops will not be allowed to check they are meeting bail conditions – at least if they are Maori.

Not that it seemed to have mattered much in this case – he was checked and still hitting drugs while out on bail and the cops didn’t recall him to prison.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/news/shargin-stephens-shooting-inquest-police-bail-checks-contributed-to-state-of-mind-psychiatrist/GRCJEOKJAZEKRMHER26GKQ7OT4/
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September 19, 2024 1:06pm
- kowtow
  
  Oh well, in that case in the interests of equity ,I fully expect “cultural factors” to be applied if Plod is doing bail checks in leafy middle class suburbs too.
  
  Bourgeois culture is very averse to hairy arsed uniformed Cops alighting from patrol cars knocking on the door when all and sundry are about to smirk and gossip.
  
  I wonder if there’s be any cultural funding available for a study of same ……..yeah right.
  
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  September 19, 2024 1:19pm
- sirknz
  
  You missed out the best part of the article to show the utter ridiculousness of this.
  
  “He also found Shargin Stephens, 35, possibly would not have had such a “short fuse” the day he was shot had he obeyed a bail condition to not use drugs.”
  
  Do you think that him being off his tits, likely on meth, contributed more to his death more than the police turning up for a bail check?
  
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  September 19, 2024 1:35pm
  - AitchW
    
    I wonder what culture the name “Shargin” comes from?
    Do these people not understand that silly made up names often lead to premature death, either at the hand of an “uncle” or as a result of suicide by cop?
    
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    September 19, 2024 2:24pm
  - cmm
    
    Well he relied entirely on what the whanau told him, in good faith. No doubt a nice boy, but the cops turning up caused everything.
    
    No doubt meth played a part, but it sounds like he was a nasty bit of work with a long list of offending (despite the nice words from aunty).
    
    I have zero experience with meth, but booze does not make people nasty – it just lowers their inhibitions and lets the unrestrained person out be that a nice friendly person or a sack of shit violent person. Maybe meth is similar?
    
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    September 19, 2024 5:13pm
    - fernglas
      
      Too much meth would turn a saint into a psycho
      
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      September 19, 2024 5:21pm
cas

I saw two hugely obese people at a local cafe this morning and wondered whether it was my fault they were obese.
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September 19, 2024 3:01pm
Swifty

DPF on The Platform today:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ70GEJamxk

Re: the Left’s personal attacks on him when Curia’s polls don’t go their way.
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September 19, 2024 4:35pm
NothingLeft

OpenAI’s latest model “o1” is a major leap forward using recursive thinking (come up with an idea, then check it out for flaws, use that to refine conclusions…). It demonstrates very sophisticated reasoning capabilities and is testing at about 120 IQ on many IQ tests, it is able to very rapidly do a lot of PhD level work in science, has elite level mathematical competence etc

But crucially it shows a quite clear development path to better-than-human AGI and Open AI insiders are saying now we are within a few years of these systems being able to replace most high-value human employment.

The Singularity is here. You should all be extremely concerned for the apocalyptic economic and social implications of most employment (initially particularly roles dominated by women) being replaceable by far cheaper computer systems.
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September 19, 2024 6:00pm
info@cruzpro.com

Our small business just received an email saying that the government is looking to raise ACC rates.

After much trying I found a way to communicate our displeasure at increased rates.

I said “Our small business has been operating for 27 years with up to eight employees. Not one single accident and raising our ACC rates is not justified. If necessary, raise the rates for companies that have cost you money and reduce the rates for companies like us that have not cost you.”

Not feeling that will help.
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September 19, 2024 6:39pm
- AitchW
  
  Once upon a time we SMEs could buy private accident insurance. It was much less expensive than the state run scheme.
  Guess who cancelled the private insurance? Hint: it was the party which hates private business and hates successful business people even more. Oh, it hates farmers too.
  
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  September 19, 2024 10:06pm
surfing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/two-arrested-including-teen-after-a-150km-police-pursuit-from-matamata-to-puhinui-rd/3JA3YH3P45BPLHYQFG4Z6MK7OY/

“It’s incredibly fortunate that anyone going about their lawful business was not harmed by this man’s behaviour, and in fact that the man himself did not succumb to serious injuries either,” Small said.”

NZ Police are utter crap at these times. They’re worried this dangerous offender may have been harmed. Best outcome for the country is that this mongrel crashed into concrete post and took himself out.
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September 19, 2024 6:56pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/money/350421292/how-much-do-our-mayors-actually-earn
I think the question should be: How much do our mayors actually get paid ?
There is a vast gulf between “earning” and “being paid”.
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September 19, 2024 7:05pm
Scooter

Sean Plunket exposing (excuse the pun) the crap that comes from the Herald. This from Kea Kids News (funded by NZ on Air to boot) a cross dressing 7 year old boy who wears stiletto boots while riding a quad bike. The Herald must have had some insight as to how bad this looks as they have taken down all links to it. Hello NationalActNZFirst, still willing to back this outfit?

https://theplatform.kiwi/podcasts/episode/sean-plunket-the-nz-herald-goes-full-paedophile
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September 19, 2024 7:22pm

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