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September 15, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 15 September 2024

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General Debate

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NeverMindTheBollocks

Good news. Fewer people, particularly single people in Auckland, are in emergency housing. Whether they have moved out of Auckland or are now living with friends or family isn’t stated. However, the taxpayer’s pocket is just a little bit heavier than before.

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/528008/government-spend-on-emergency-housing-drops-nearly-a-third-in-a-month
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September 15, 2024 8:01am
- Jethrod
  
  Has it been noted a lot of cars parked in public spaces at night?
  
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  September 15, 2024 8:29am
- artemisia
  
  Single adult households, especially if working age, should never have been in motels for more than a very few weeks. But it was a great lark for many – free then cheap accommodation, furnished, probably cleaned regularly, power and water bills paid by someone else. Let your mates know. Have to prove now and again looking for other housing but no need to look like an acceptable tenant, flattie or boarder.
  
  Should never have been allowed to get to that point. Highly noticeable that when expectations changed, a miracle occurred.
  
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  September 15, 2024 9:11am
NeverMindTheBollocks

The question never asked by our useless MSM in any of the Maori Ward stories is, what do Maori activists have to fear from a referendum?

Surely, after all the publicity, brain washing and guilt tripping, the motivated few who vote in local body elections will certainly support the creation of Maori Wards.

Or have I missed something?

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/527987/iwi-disgusted-by-kaipara-district-council-scrapping-maori-ward
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September 15, 2024 8:07am
- sirknz
  
  The fact that they can’t, or won’t tell the ratepayers what the quantifiable benefits are for the ratepayers speaks volumes to me. Instead, all we get is “If you’re against this then you are racist and want to remove Maori from everything!”.
  
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  September 15, 2024 8:40am
- Cassandra
  
  Supporters of racist wards know they’re onto a good thing which is morally reprehensible and will, rightly, be rejected by the majority. They are desperate to cling on to their ill-gotten gains and can’t use fair means ie a vote, so are using foul – lies and claims that opposing racism is racism. Lewis Carroll could write a book about it.
  
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  September 15, 2024 8:46am
  - PurplePen
    
    But what of those that don’t identify as maori that will vote for Maori wards. I’m making some big assumptions, they are as somewhat to well-educated and likely make up a lot of the total number of people that actually vote. What do they gain from having a Maori ward? If anything as a citizen they lose.
    
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    September 15, 2024 9:22am
    - Flossie
      
      They’ll feel good about being magnanimous/righteous/(you name it).
      
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      September 15, 2024 10:08am
    - sirknz
      
      But what of those that don’t identify as maori that will vote for Maori wards.
      ——–
      They are called Greens voters.
      
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      September 15, 2024 12:23pm
    - Taieri
      
      Here is one of them:
      
      “The citizenship ceremony, which included karakia, waiata and whakataukī [proverbs], was the best example of the changes Mr Cadogan had helped encourage at the council”
      
      “While Central Otago had a low Māori population, the language still had a place in the district”
      
      https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/council’s-use-te-reo-air-tv
      
      “On May 29, the council voted 11-1 to retain the spelling — only Central Otago District Mayor Tim Cadogan voted against the motion.
      
      The current spelling is Maniototo, which has no te reo Māori translation.”
      
      https://www.odt.co.nz/rural-life/rural-life-other/maniototo’s-‘mistake’-spelling-retained
      
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      September 15, 2024 3:21pm
    - judith8409121
      
      maybe they will identify as maori and join the grift
      
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      September 15, 2024 7:19pm
- Notsofast
  
  One of the fundamental questions remains what is a Maori?
  For example Debbie Packer appears to be 12%.
  Winston talks of one part in 512 as a measure to claim being a Maori.
  It is so obviously a massive gerrymandering if either of these numbers end up taking spots.
  Even Willie Jackson is but 20% maori/Polynesian, and 60% Chinese/Ashkenazi jew. His claim.
  This conversation is well overdue.
  I am open to being persuaded we should turn control of resources to these cunning part Maori.
  
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  September 15, 2024 9:05am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Appreciate your point Notso.
    Perhaps we go to first principles and just refer to all citizens as citizens.
    We have Irish kiwis and Indian kiwis etc but they aren’t referred to in legislation.
    We also have New Zealand kiwis who were born here and have no other homeland but NZ and they don’t get special treatment.
    It should be that way for every one
    
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    September 15, 2024 10:30am
    - Paulus
      
      Is that not what active Maori and their non Maori supporters are against, everybody are equal, including financially, not as now !
      
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      September 15, 2024 1:22pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I think that determination will not be made for a generation or two.
    
    Currently it is in the political interest of activist maori to claim a wide base… but the day will come when folks well connected to their ancestral roots will be unwilling to share their resources and iwi wealth with others who have only a tenuous link to a common ancestor.
    
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    September 15, 2024 10:32am
    - Countrygirl
      
      I read somewhere that everyone (although it may be just Europeans which ruins my argument) can claim ancestry from Charlemagne. That seems a tenuous link, but apparently with the multiplication of ancestors that’s where we all join up.
      
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      September 15, 2024 12:24pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        There’s a male ancestor common to circa 8% of East & Central Asian populations thought to be Ghengis Khan.
        
        https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.16767
        
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        September 15, 2024 1:12pm
- artemisia
  
  Cui bono will require much resource to get out the vote. John Tamihere had some good tips for the door knockers.
  
  (How’s that investigation going?)
  
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  September 15, 2024 9:15am
  - imalwaysright
    
    They haven’t finished the cover up yet, therefore the investigation can’t go ahead.
    Same rules as infant murders.
    Police by consent!
    
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    September 15, 2024 10:33am
  - Ghost
    
    The indicative reporting date for the inquiry is 16 September 2024. Ms Baggott will be making no further comment until the inquiry is finished.
    
    Inquiry into the protection of personal information
    
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    September 15, 2024 10:40am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      That would be tomorrow. Looking forward to it.
      
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      September 15, 2024 1:13pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Kaipara Councilors voted and Maori do not like the result.
  Tough titties, that is democracy. Maori obviously don’t like democracy.
  
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  September 15, 2024 9:34am
  - pdm
    
    Kaipara and Upper Hutt the only Councils that seem to care about costs to ratepayers.
    
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    September 15, 2024 9:50am
  - Nukuleka
    
    And those Councils that voted in favour of Maori wards- did you consider that to be ‘democracy’ also? Rather rocky logic methinks.
    
    The decision should be over to the ratepayers not the council members.
    
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    September 15, 2024 9:58am
    - Ian Boag
      
      The ratepayers elected the councils in a democratic fashion. If people don’t like the council decision they can turf them out next election.
      
      It came as no surprise that the vast majority of councils voted for maori wards. Funnily enough it didn’t seem to be an issue in the council elections where lots of people didn’t vote at all.
      
      Funny old thing democracy ….
      
      Government by referendum is nonsense. We have councils and parliaments and stuff …. As I recall we had referenda on the parliamentary term length and the number of MPs where the results were ignored ….
      
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      September 15, 2024 10:37am
      - leoj
        
        What you fail to point out is that many of these councils did not make it clear that they were for maori wards ahead of elections.
        
        No, they just “assumed” that they had the power to change the structure of the council without going to the people.
        
        That is democracy, not your perverted version.
        
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        September 15, 2024 3:00pm
- rouppe
  
  They never ask the question “why do the Maori councillors in the general wards not provide the Maori representation they say they seek? “
  
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  September 15, 2024 9:55am
  - Countrygirl
    
    I’d give that 2 ticks if I could.
    
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    September 15, 2024 12:26pm
  - Dave
    
    Because Maori councillors in general wards are beholden to the non-Maori majority and thus cannot reflect True Maori values and aspirations, I guess.
    
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    September 15, 2024 1:18pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    The answer to that is that any random Maori can run for Council, viz Tamatha Paul & Tory Whanau in the Capital. But, I think I’m right in saying that neither is part of the local mana whenua. So, they don’t count.
    
    As an aside, I always snort when I see the likes of Te Atiawa ki Poneke cited as mana whenua in Wellington. Te Atiawa are a Taranaki tribe; they invaded along with Te Rauparaha in the 1820s, and murdered the locals. Frankly, they should be embarrassed about their forebears’ actions, and should be making a public apology.
    
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    September 15, 2024 1:22pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      shhhhhhhh!
      
      https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350404651/maori-rep-voted-sell-knowing-iwi-interested-shares
      
      Better to keep quiet about those details…
      
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      September 15, 2024 3:18pm
- AitchW
  
  I suspect that those who want Maori wards know that the majority of voters don’t share their enthusiasm and will vote them down.
  The flip side to that is that there is nothing to stop Maori from standing for election. Every person has a vote. Representation is, by definition, representative.
  Why do the media not stress this? (Rhetorical question.)
  
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  September 15, 2024 11:19am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Tania Tapsell is a glaring example of what an energetic good forward Māori person can achieve. And she is a woman. For Chris Hipkins
    (That is an adult female human being)
    
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    September 15, 2024 11:50am
- Handyman
  
  I love the irony of the Waitangi Tribunal opinion.
  “It is undemocratic for elected councillors to hold a local referendum without first giving some unelected Maoris veto over the decision”.
  
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  September 15, 2024 11:27am
- Drone
  
  Currently city wards are divided on rough geographic regions the definition from the Wellington CC website is “A ward is a geographical area, which is broken down by suburbs across the city. In Wellington, we have six wards and 16 elected members. ” and “Every election, the number of councillors for each ward is based on how many people reside in each geographical area and the population of the city. ” With the proposed introduction of maori wards how will the maori wards be defined and how many maori representatives will there be.
  
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  September 15, 2024 11:59am
- Bloody Dago
  
  What Maori activists have to fear is the silent voice of the majority of New Zealanders dropping them on their arses. Hallelujah!!
  
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  September 15, 2024 3:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

“Trump would probably sign off on armed raids on his political opponent’s residences in a fashion similar to the way he was raided by the FBI and DOJ.”

https://babylonbee.com/news/doj-warns-if-trump-is-elected-he-will-do-to-them-all-the-stuff-theyre-doing-to-him?u
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September 15, 2024 8:09am
- MCōs
  
  I’ve read enough cheap American detective novels to know a judge signs a search warrant, not the president.
  
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  September 15, 2024 8:27am
  - pdm
    
    Carter Browns mcos?
    
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    September 15, 2024 8:34am
    - MCōs
      
      I should have said inexpensive
      
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      September 15, 2024 8:50am
      - pdm
        
        Most second hand book shops had cheap Carter Browns in the 60’s.
        
        Plus they were swapped around mates.
        
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        September 15, 2024 9:51am
    - David Garrett
      
      pdm: Ah, Carter Brown! I remember being introduced to his work when hospitalized at age 17. After a few days I felt much better, but spent nearly a month as an in-patient in total.
      
      Detective stories with an erotic bent (can’t think of a better adjective this early on a Sunday)
      
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      September 15, 2024 8:52am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So who is putting pressure oh Judges like Merchan and Engoron?
    Couldn’t possibly be the Biden admin could it? Must be the swamp.
    
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    September 15, 2024 9:39am
    - MCōs
      
      To do what?
      Sign a search warrant?
      
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      September 15, 2024 11:19am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Some of the charges against Trump are pathetic
        
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        September 15, 2024 11:53am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Not so sure, he did say he would not perform Utu
  
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  September 15, 2024 11:52am
  - AitchW
    
    I’m a little wary of using Maori words in everyday speech. Apparently there are nuances and interpretations to many of them which aren’t immediately obvious. Many years ago in a course about the treaty I was told (by a young, blonde, and blue eyed woman with a greenstone pendant and a Maori surname) that Pakeha are incapable of comprehending the concept of whanau as it is a uniquely Maori concept.
    
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    September 15, 2024 1:08pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Pakeha are incapable of comprehending the concept of whanau as it is a uniquely Maori concept.
      
      The young lass must have been ignorant of Scottish and Chinese Clans, Korean Bon-gwan……and probably any kinship group of people who lived, worked and fought together.
      
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      September 15, 2024 3:13pm
      - AitchW
        
        I suspect she was simply parroting the paradigm du jour…
        
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        September 15, 2024 4:00pm
artemisia

I have no problem with folk calling out grammar, spelling, usage and apostrophes, but William Safire does sometimes come to mind.

Is sloppiness in speech caused by ignorance or apathy? I don’t know and I don’t care.
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September 15, 2024 8:10am
- David Garrett
  
  artemisa: That’s very good! But sadly – for the few that find it very irritating – I will continue to be KB’s resident language usage pedant.
  
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  September 15, 2024 9:01am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I enjoy your pedantry. 😃
    
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    September 15, 2024 9:26am
    - David Garrett
      
      Bene: You are too kind…and I find your comments (almost) always right on the money…but always interesting
      
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      September 15, 2024 9:44am
      - Mike
        
        Beware of overusing the ellipsis, particularly when using it incorrectly, and especially if one is announcing one’s qualifications in pedantry.
        
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        September 15, 2024 10:43am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Beware of overusing the ellipsis
        
        Rubbish….
        
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        September 15, 2024 11:39am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Yes well it would be both astonishing and concerning if every reader agreed with all my views on all subjects. 😂
        
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        September 15, 2024 11:42am
  - CJames
    
    You aren’t the only one DG, though most aren’t as vocal. I am certain that more than a few readers find it grating to read someone’s post which is marred by an apostrophe in the wrong place or even worse, a spelling mistake. In some, they are so bad that the meaning is not clear, or even the opposite of what they originally intended. The author usually, but not always, comes back with a correction when it is obvious.
    I recognise that many communicate using their cellphone so have a limited screen size. but people should read through before pushing send. I admit that isn’t always foolproof and I am just as guilty as others with howlers getting through.
    
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    September 15, 2024 9:38am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Spelling mistakes/typos. Yeah that’s me. I can proof read very carefully and still miss it until it is too late to edit. Apparently I see my text as an image, so very hard to see a mistake. Only later it turns into a glaring example. It is just the way things are for me.
      
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      September 15, 2024 9:43am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Try Grammerly.
        
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        September 15, 2024 10:14am
      - Ghost
        
        Do what I do, don’t care about them. My pots and histamine intolerance give me brain fog, so if I get something wrong, tough shit.
        
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        September 15, 2024 10:30am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Try Grammerly.
        
        Might be better to use a spell-checker!
        
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        September 15, 2024 10:37am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        As you know what you mean to write, you often read over your own mistakes when you proofread.
        
        With other folks’ writings, you come to a screaming halt when your eye spots something you don’t immediately recognise…. is it a new word/idiom, or a mistake?
        
        I worked as a scientific editor for some years and figured if I couldn’t understand a sentence, then others would be similarly affected. I concentrated on the readability of the submitted texts.
        
        Layout and design are not my thing…..
        For one issue of a research Journal, I failed to check the position of the journal title on the spine cover…..
        
        So if anyone has a complete set of the NZJBotany arranged on their shelves.. my oversight is plain to see…
        I never lost any sleep over my “error”.
        
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        September 15, 2024 10:55am
      - David Garrett
        
        Steve: I have been a lawyer for 30 years, and still get my staff to proof read important letters before they go out – and most letters from a lawyer’s office are important.
        
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        September 15, 2024 11:17am
      - MCōs
        
        I found working with steel fabricators in America who were elevated to project managers they could hardly string a sentence together and kept poor records
        This gave us an advantage down the track if a problem arose because we controlled the narrative by sending them our written version of phone conversations
        
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        September 15, 2024 11:35am
    - pdm
      
      I put most (but, not all) of my `spelling mistakes’ down to that stupid auto correct thingy.
      
      Drives me bloody mad sometimes.
      
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      September 15, 2024 9:55am
      - Grumpy Silver Top
        
        Autocorrect is a boon and a major irritation. I tried turning it off, then discovered that I used it more than I thought, simply to speed up texting. I agree, proof reading is becoming a lost art. Also that some posts are indecipherable, due to ignorance, laziness or what?
        
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        September 15, 2024 10:06am
    - rangitoto
      
      My father told me that in the olden days, the best at spelling and grammar were the tradies who did the type setting. They corrected most of the subies errors. The reporters were dreadful.
      
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      September 15, 2024 1:28pm
  - peterwn
    
    All legal types are the same. Law students have to exacting style requirements when writing essays, the same when doing summer clerkships and get in the habit. The same guide applies to lay students through to Supreme Court judges – see:
    https://www.austlii.community/wiki/NZLawSG/NZLawStyleGuide/
    
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    September 15, 2024 9:49am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Then perhaps you should have started you’re post with a capital.
    
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    September 15, 2024 11:54am
    - Flossie
      
      * your post
      
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      September 15, 2024 12:14pm
      - sirknz
        
        These posts are starting to yaw…
        
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        September 15, 2024 12:36pm
  - OlderChas
    
    I do the same to the TV ‘News Reporters” David. Loudly, repeatedly and to the eyerolls of Mrs Older. (But she did admit to being educated (took learnings from?) by it at times!) So do continue with your education of we who sometimes do not speak the King’s England the way she should be spoke.
    
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    September 15, 2024 12:30pm
- TripeWryter
  
  I used to read William Safire’s language columns in The New York Times Sunday Magazine back in the 80s.
  If I remember correctly I had one of his books.
  I do remember his devoting a whole column to placing a comma before the word ‘too’.
  E.g., Mary said she liked John, too.
  The comma indicated a pause, and was necessary.
  I learned a lot from William Safire.
  
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  September 15, 2024 9:11am
  - david
    
    It is not a lot of extra ink to write “also” instead of “too”.
    
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    September 15, 2024 11:16am
    - TripeWryter
      
      david: true, also.
      
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      September 15, 2024 11:25am
  - David Garrett
    
    Tripe: I respectfully beg to differ. Whether the quoted sentence would require a comma would depend entirely on the context. For example:
    
    “Mary liked Bill, Mary and John” Quite correct when Mary is telling us who in the group she liked; and no comma is required before the “and”, because it precedes the last mentioned in a list.
    
    But if Mary is simply telling us she, along with others, likes John, this would be fine sans the comma:
    
    “Mary said she liked John too” i.e Mary is agreeing with the others’ sentiments regarding John, as opposed to what she thinks about others in the group.
    
    Looking at the bigger picture, you have to bear in mind that American grammar differs in signifcant ways from English. For example:
    
    “Mary wrote me every week when she was away” is fine in American, but in English it requires a “to” before the “me”.
    
    And similarly: ” I always read a couple pages before going to sleep” – fine in American but English requires an “of” before the “pages”
    
    There are numerous similar examples.
    
    Then you get the truly fingernails-on-a-blackboard American usage: “John climbed off of the tractor seat” and “I could care less”, when what is meant – judging from the context – is the exact opposite, viz. “I couldn’t care less”
    
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    September 15, 2024 11:28am
    - Flossie
      
      How do you feel about “debate” DG? When I went to school we debated a subject, not a person.
      
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      September 15, 2024 12:02pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Flossie: Actually you might be surprised to know that for me, that one is an example of language evolution, rather like “should” and “would” which I posted about the other day. But then that’s just me: others – presumably including you – find it an irritating misuse.
        
        I think we all have to accept that language does indeed evolve. I vividly recall a radio interview with an old lady in 1986, the year I went back to school. She told the interviewer that she quite enjoyed “the young men making love to me” during the war. The interviewer was canny enough to know that “making love” meant something very different 40 years earlier than fucking.
        
        Similarly “gay”…whether we like it or not, no longer means somewhere or somthing lively and amusing, such as in a line from my favourite movie, made in 1950: “When we last met it was somewhere very gay”. The response was “Yes…Lindbergh had just landed” (in 1927)
        
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        September 15, 2024 12:19pm
    - Dave
      
      Clearer to write, ‘Mary said she too liked John.’
      
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      September 15, 2024 1:27pm
      - TripeWryter
        
        Dave: hmmm, no.
        ‘Mary said she, too, liked John.’
        Cheers …
        
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        September 15, 2024 1:51pm
    - TripeWryter
      
      David (Garrett): You might have given my post a bit of over-think.
      None of your examples applies. I was giving an example of why a comma preceded ‘too’.
      I am familiar with the vagaries of American (and Canadian) grammar.
      I sometimes have to write in it and edit it, too.
      Cheers …
      
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      September 15, 2024 1:27pm
- PurplePen
  
  It will be ignorance. Mum used to haul us up all the time such as “It’s I did it, not I done it”. And Sr Mary Donatus in standard 3, bless, used to go red in the face teaching us grammar.
  
  The apathy will be from parents, educators and the education system.
  
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  September 15, 2024 9:26am
  - David Garrett
    
    …Purple: and then there are the double negatives such as: “I haven’t done nothing”. In my youth I used to try and explain to workmates why that was wrong; fortunately in my current occupation that is very rarely necessary.
    
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    September 15, 2024 11:35am
    - sirknz
      
      English is a language in which the use of double negatives is a no no.
      
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      September 15, 2024 12:39pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Sirknz: Brilliant! Please tell me that is all your own work, and not pinched from somewhere?
        
        Almost as good as Churchill’s comment on ending sentences with a prepostion:
        
        “Something up with which I will not put”
        
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        September 15, 2024 12:56pm
- Inandout
  
  art, though woe betide any person who misspells or mispronounces te reo, a concoction IMO of English with an attempt to Maorify. I note ZB this morning has a woman news reader who spouts her attempt at te reo.
  
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  September 15, 2024 9:31am
  - Paulus
    
    I went to my local dairy this morning to get a paper for my currently invalid wife who religeously does the cross words.
    I asked for the Sunday Star Times and was told there were none any more, but there is a similar paper with a total huge Maori name at the top for the same price.
    
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    September 15, 2024 1:33pm
    - marcw
      
      What language was the crossword in then? (Ironic comment btw.)
      
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      September 15, 2024 1:51pm
- ChristopherW2
  
  It’s a good habit to proofread, even if just to ensure you expressed yourself succinctly; but remember that Jane Austen, the English language’s wittiest novelist, couldn’t punctuate – it was done by her editor.
  
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  September 15, 2024 10:52am
Bridgenag

will cats decide the presidential election?
kick the internet’s cats and the cats kick back

“the grift, graft, lawlessness, crime, kickbacks, and electoral meddling are as unprecedented as they are out of control. schools are struggling, cities are reeling, budgets are breaking, and still they come. countries are literally emptying their prisons into the US and then when gangs take over housing complexes, the US politicians who get free stuff and maybe a bit of beak wetting from the skim deny it’s happening. and belief in them is at all time lows.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/boriquagato/p/will-cats-decide-the-presidential?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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September 15, 2024 8:10am
- Philview
  
  What was interesting was the news (to me) that 15,000 Haitians have moved into Springfield in the last 4 years. A town of 58,000 people. I am sure the Haitians are mostly good people but that is a crazy amount of people moving into a smallish place.
  
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  September 15, 2024 8:24am
  - Flossie
    
    How on earth was a 25% increase in population able to be housed in such a short period?
    
    8 2
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    September 15, 2024 10:28am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Not KiwiBuild, that’s for sure
      
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      September 15, 2024 10:38am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Apparently the town is pretty run down & there are a lot of empty houses; but all that is happening is that some Haitians are being exploited by some business operators and landlords – it’s a very dismal scene.
        
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        September 15, 2024 11:09am
- Scott
  
  Vice president Harris did a solo interview recently. It didn’t go well. She just had very little to say. She seems to have no idea. But don’t take my word for it. Judge for yourself –
  
  https://redstate.com/bonchie/2024/09/13/watch-kamala-harris-bombs-her-first-solo-interview-n2179303
  
  She appears to be the poster child for DEI advancement. Promoted way past the level of her competency. Hopefully the American people will realise this.
  
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  September 15, 2024 8:29am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    But don’t take my word for it
    
    Take redstate.com’s word for it. LOL Give yourself an uppercut.
    
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    September 15, 2024 10:59am
    - MCōs
      
      For a second opinion go to redneck.com
      
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      September 15, 2024 11:38am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Not sure someone who lives in Mangare should be looking down on ‘rednecks’
        How is the dog population round there?
        
        8 3
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        September 15, 2024 11:46am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Or perhaps watch the videos of her speaking, listed in the Link
      Or stay ignorant
      Over to you
      LOL
      
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      September 15, 2024 11:43am
      - Hard Cheese
        
        Watch the whole interview like I did, instead of the disingenuous, truncated video clip on redstate.com.
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AunRg_V078
        
        redstate.com
        
        Can anyone pick out an actual policy proposal in that word salad? She keeps talking about “investing” in things but doesn’t specify a single thing she’d invest in.
        
        She gives very specific policy examples in answer to the idea of an opportunity economy, from 2:30-4:00. Funny redstate.com doesn’t mention any of that – you’re just getting the news you want to hear reading that site.
        
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        September 15, 2024 12:29pm
      - Scott
        
        Hard cheese – watched the clip you pointed out. 3 million new homes by the end of her first term. Sure. Let’s call it Kiwibuild.
        
        Question – she’s vice president now. Why doesn’t she start now? Why hasn’t she started already?
        
        Worst vice president ever. 😎
        
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        September 15, 2024 2:21pm
      - Hard Cheese
        
        @Scott
        
        Oh, but I thought you and redstate.com said she had no policies? Now she has a policy – just one you don’t believe she will fulfil. Fair enough, but don’t come at me with one argument and then switch positions to another when you’re proven wrong with the first.
        
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        September 15, 2024 4:39pm
      - Scott
        
        Hard cheese – honestly look again. She’s asked about what specific things you would do to bring prices down?
        Her answer goes on tangents about middle class home, opportunity economy, neighbours being proud of their lawns, in short a ramble that does not answer the question!
        
        I don’t know who you are, but your analysis is way off. She rambles, she does not answer the question and she appears to be a vapid person who is totally out of her depth.
        
        Trump knows things. He’ll make a good president again. Kamala knows nothing. 😎
        
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        September 15, 2024 10:40pm
    - Tom Hunter
      
      They include extensive transcripts and several unedited takes from the video. That’s usually the case with RedState because although they are ideologically right-wing and GOP partisan they know they can’t get away with blatant shit like the MSM can, and there’s another RedState article precisely on that subject, where they show what ABC news did with the video interview:
      
      The above exchange can be seen online by going directly to ABC 6’s website. Guess who didn’t see it? That would be the network’s television audience. According to Tom Elliott, who runs Grabien, a media service that archives news coverage, ABC 6 and Taff made an astonishingly dishonest edit to the interview before playing it on the nightly news.
      
      Specifically, the above word salad was completely cut out of the interview, and instead, a later portion was spliced in. In the recording of the live broadcast, you can hear Taff ask the question posed in the above excerpt, yet the answer Harris is shown giving was not her actual answer in the interview.
      
      They include a side-by-side comparison of Harris’s actual answer and the ABC version.
      
      It is one thing to cut out specific exchanges of a long-form interview to provide highlight coverage for a news broadcast. It is another to present a question and then chop off the real answer to make a politician look better. What Harris said was embarrassing and irrelevant. ABC 6 should have aired that or not aired the exchange at all.
      
      But naturally in your eyes the ABC and other legacy MSM sources like it are outstanding examples of fair and balanced journalism, while newbies like RedState are terrible at journalism when they’re not being totally biased.
      
      I now await a reference to Wikipedia about RedState, just for shits and giggles.
      
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      September 15, 2024 12:34pm
      - Hard Cheese
        
        That redstate.com article does exactly what you are claiming the ABC is doing to justify their “train wreck” headline. Their “transcript” doesn’t even match the question Taff actually asks, because they CUT out the first part of the question in the video:
        
        TAFF: Talk about bringing down prices and making life more affordable for people. What are one or two specific things you have in mind for that?
        
        If you watch the ABC video the actual question is
        
        “You hear it more than I do. People want to hear more about you, about your specific plans. At the debate the other night you talked about creating an opportunity economy…wonder if we could drill down on that a little bit. When we talk about bringing down prices and making life more affordable for people…what are one or two specific things you have in mind for that?”
        
        In the full interview she clearly addresses people wanting to know about herself and the opportunity economy and two specific parts of her plans, but redstate cuts out the last half of her answer to make it look like her response is rambling and has nothing to do at all with the question. No, she doesn’t address bringing down prices, but this article is grossly contrived.
        
        You believe what you like, but in my view that article puts redstate.com onto the proven liars list.
        
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        September 15, 2024 5:09pm
    - Scott
      
      Look at the article where you can see what Harris actually said.
      
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      September 15, 2024 1:35pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Average Haitian IQ is 67. Anyone below 70 is basically unemployable. So poor Springfield Ohio with 60k original pop and 20k immigrant Haitians has added 12000 or more permanently unemployables who will never add anything but massive social problems. That is the end of their town as a viable productive and safe community.
  
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  September 15, 2024 10:51am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Haitians are not “permanently unemployable”. It’s not entirely what we learn from IQ comparisons across different cultures, or countries with different levels of development. Most African countries score low on IQ tests, yet many Africans speak multiple languages – how many languages do you speak? I also want to point out that sub-Saharan Africans came up with iron smelting on their own, in isolation from other iron-smelting cultures. Whereas Europeans learned iron-smelting from the Middle East. Africans can’t be as stupid as the IQ data suggest, and Thomas Sowell has argued that geographic disadvantages explain the technological backwardness of sub-Saharan Africa. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fof9xZA7dpg&t=537s
    
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    September 15, 2024 12:27pm
    - rangitoto
      
      The earliest known iron smelting is from the Hittites who were Indo-European speaking people from the steppes,who moved into Anatolia but yes it appears that it was independently invented in sub Saharan Africa.
      
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      September 15, 2024 1:48pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      <70IQ is 'mild retardation' range and for all intents and purposes unemployable outside of extremely undemanding roles like supermarket trolley wrangling or highly supervised extremely repetitive tasks, of which there just aren't that many surviving basic automation. Even being a reliable cleaner etc dealing with a variety of situations and needing some limited planning and initiative is frequently beyond them, and these people will almost all require life-long support of the state to just survive.
      
      This sort of cognitive deficit arises as a result of a combination of genetics and severe nutritional deficits in mothers and childhood, and is irreversible/unfixable. People in this range will only ever be a massive drain on rest of population that have to pay extra tax to support them, and po9lticians that arrange their importation are unbelievably destructive.
      
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      September 15, 2024 3:56pm
  - Taieri
    
    Average Haitian IQ is 67.
    ————
    
    How many of them have been tested?
    
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    September 15, 2024 3:24pm
Bridgenag

Especially for BY

The New Zealand data released by Barry Young can be used to prove the COVID vaccines are unsafe
I’ll show you the easiest way to do that in this article. However, it doesn’t appear that any of the New Zealand lawmakers or health authorities are interested in what the data shows.

https://open.substack.com/pub/stevekirsch/p/the-new-zealand-data-released-by?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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September 15, 2024 8:11am
- Scott
  
  My dear Bridgenag. Maybe it’s early on Sunday morning and I’m not totally awake yet? But I cannot understand that article at all. Maybe just one simple point in layman’s terms would be good. 😎
  
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  September 15, 2024 8:25am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Well here is a question for you. Well two questions.
  
  1.Do you understand any of that? I have some expertise in statistics and it reads like gibberish.
  
  2.Has anything this guy written been peer reviewed by an actual statistician? If his revelations are so profound, I would expect to see New Zealand statisticians clamoring to both substantiate his conclusions and to ring the alarm bells.
  
  He is a fraud. An obsessed fraud. They are common.
  
  https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/steve-kirschs-mother-of-all-revelations-about-the-deadliness-of-covid-19-vaccines-goes-poof/
  
  Perhaps you could take a breather until the Royal Commission reports in 2026. The Commissioners for part two are well qualified, as DPF recently blogged. I am acquainted with one of the Commissioners and I agree with DPF.
  
  https://www.covid19lessons.royalcommission.nz/
  
  Of course we will need to wait and see. However if I were forced to make a prediction it would be this…
  
  The vaccine mandates and vaccine passes were never justified based on the efficacy of the vaccine in preventing transmission.
  
  The Level 4 restrictions were never justified based on quality-adjusted life years (QALYs) saved. Not by a long shot.
  
  The Commission will recommend new approaches to the future management of such pandemics.
  
  What the Commission will not report is that the Pfizer vaccine killed thousands of people. Quite the opposite.
  
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  September 15, 2024 8:59am
  - David Garrett
    
    Bene: I also will be very interested in the outcome of this Commission – and all the more so because you – a fellow I have never met but whose opinion I greatly respect – say you know one of the Commissioners, the sub-text of which is probably that he or she is sound.
    
    For now, I am interested in the comparison between Sweden – which had no mandates etc. but concentrated on protecting the vulnerable, particularly the elderly – and Denmark next door, which apparently did much the same as us.
    
    From what I have read (you may be able to confirm) the two countries’ excess death rates were about the same, despite totally different approaches.
    
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    September 15, 2024 9:06am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Not quite as you say…
      
      New Zealand had the lowest covid deaths per capita of any nation.
      
      https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
      
      Of course that is hardly surprising given we were locked up North Korean style.
      
      Sweden is in the middle of the pack, but notably did better than countries like France and the UK which both had lockdowns. Not as strict as New Zealand but still lockdowns. (New Zealand’s L4 lockdowns were the strictest of any country.)
      
      The countries with shocking covid death rates such as Belarus and Peru were characterised by poor government responses of any kind, and low vaccination rates. That pesky data that the anti vaxxers avoid. 😃
      
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      September 15, 2024 9:22am
      - Spam
        
        Without looking in more detail for better data, that link you posted is incomplete. It shows NZ as having only one Covid death.
        
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        September 15, 2024 9:35am
      - Spam
        
        Ok current data has NZ middle of the pack for per capita deaths. Seems other countries have stopped reporting. Don’t know why we still do.
        https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths
        
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        September 15, 2024 9:42am
      - David Garrett
        
        Bene: thanks for that…but you don’t mention Sweden and Denmark…were their deaths per capita the same or very similar do you know? (Sorry it’s probably in your link…but I’m lazy on a Sunday morning)
        
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        September 15, 2024 9:47am
      - rouppe
        
        Stop going on about deaths per capita. It cannot be the single measure of success.
        
        If you step on a rusty nail, i can guarantee 100% immunity from tetanus – by amputating your foot.
        
        I can then stand here and declare how great my Tetanus response is, but I’m pretty sure you’ll be unhappy at losing your foot.
        
        Most people go for the Tetanus injection, which prevents tetanus in most people, but not all.
        
        The lockdowns were to the nz economy what amputating your foot would be to you. It has severely hindered our recovery.
        
        The better response would have been like Sweden’s. We would have a similar per capita covid rate, but not be in such an awful situation in nearly every other metric
        
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        September 15, 2024 10:07am
      - David Garrett
        
        Rouppe: Your vehement response would be more convincing if you understand medicine a bit better…In short, amputating your foot would be absolutely useless as a response to standing on a rusty nail; within minutes of that wound your body would be full of tetanus baccilli, if the baccilli were present on said nail.
        
        A prompt shot of anti-tetanus toxin would be an effective treatment for most people – but not all as you correctly note – especially not for people who hadn’t had a tetanus shot in 20 years.
        
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        September 15, 2024 10:30am
      - rouppe
        
        It’s a metaphor, David…
        
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        September 15, 2024 10:55am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Ben Yu, cherry picking data from June 2022, makes you sound like Hipkins, or Ardern.
        
        To then conclude by stating “That pesky data that the anti vaxxers avoid.” you have clearly joined the ranks of the gaslighting Covid priesthood.
        
        Sad to see you destroying your credibility this way. Has the demon of Michael Wood possessed Ben Yu? 🤡
        
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        September 15, 2024 2:31pm
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  It’s a big ball of wibbly wobbly, statty watty stuff
  
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  September 15, 2024 10:22am
Yvette

Treaty
I want to quote from the law professor Matthew Palmer, who said: “From a traditional legal perception the Treaty of Waitangi exists in a shadow land—half in and half out of law. It has no legal status in and of itself. In order for the Treaty to be part of the law it has to be made so. The primary way in which this occurs is through incorporation in legislation.” That is the Treaty of Waitangi.

However, the Treaty is itself internally contradictory. It was drawn up by an Irishman, who left school before the age of 10 and was too sick at the time he drafted it to even leave the ship, based on instructions from someone half a world away. It was then translated overnight by people who were far from being constitutional lawyers, and who did not have a deep understanding of te reo Māori—neither Henry Williams nor Edward Williams were experienced translators—into a language that did not have the lexicon of international legal concepts. It was not translated into indigenous Māori but into missionary Māori. [1]
[…]
However, because of the Treaty’s internal contradictions and its capacity for multiple interpretations, lawmakers have been reluctant to insert it directly into legislation. As Matthew Palmer has said, the Treaty of Waitangi is not sensibly susceptible to ordinary techniques of statutory interpretation. Instead, legislators have inserted the pusillanimous term “principles of the Treaty”—a simple flourish, as Geoffrey Palmer referred to the term when he inserted it into the State-owned enterprises legislation. Yet it is his son who demolishes his father’s work. Matthew Palmer argues that if the only point in putting in a reference to the Treaty is symbolic, it is unnecessary and unhelpful. If it is to express Treaty implications for that legislation, as required by the Cabinet Manual since 2001, then that is the civic implication that should be addressed and put into the legislation
– Hon BRIAN DONNELLY (NZ First) Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Deletion Bill, First Reading, 26 July 2006
https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/48HansD_20060726_00001143/principles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi-deletion-bill-first

In 2006 the New Zealand First party introduced the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Deletion Bill. The bill sought ‘to correct an anomaly that has harmed race relations in New Zealand since 1986 when the vague term “the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi” was included in legislation.

Why support that then, Winston, and not Seymour now?

And Christopher Luxon what of a “closed mind” position on proposed legislation a year before it is seen?
I may have missed it of course, but I have not see any exact explanation for National’s stance.

______________
[1] And for those signatory Maori Chiefs who could not read, the Maori version would have been explained (it is presumed), orally with or without direct reference to the text, by whom?
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September 15, 2024 8:20am
- David Garrett
  
  Yvette: One correction: what Palmer inserted into the SOE’s Act was not a “simple flourish”; he told the cabinet of the day that section 9 was “meaningless window dressing”. I know that to be so because I was told it by two men who were there, my friend Roger Douglas and Richard Prebble.
  
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  September 15, 2024 10:34am
  - Yvette
    
    David, I understand that
    
    Prebble claims that Sir Geoffrey Palmer put it in as “window dressing” following discussions between the late paramount chief of Tuwharetoa Sir Hepi te Heuheu and former Prime Minister David Lange.
    
    Further –
    Even Sir Geoffrey said he had been surprised at the judgment. He told the Herald this week that the clause had had “unexpected consequences”.  ”It did come as somewhat of a surprise to me that the Court of Appeal read that phrase up rather than read it down,” he said, explaining that the court had given the clause “a very wide and generous interpretation”.  These days Sir Geoffrey is advocating that Parliament be as precise as it can be over such references.  ”A vague reference to treaty principles is not as good as a specific reference to what it is you want done.”
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/deep-divisions-over-treatys-matters-of-principle/FMNRWGH4CCQSSEHC2OLX3C56AQ/
    
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    September 15, 2024 11:09am
    - David Garrett
      
      Yvette: Still incorrect I’m afraid. I have spoken to both Roger and Prebble about this a number of times. They are both adamant that Lange was as surprised as any of the other members of cabinet when s.9 ended up in the SOE’s Act, either at second reading or Committee of the Whole stage.
      
      Prebble goes further: he says he happened to walk into the chamber just as the SOP – introduced by Trevor Mallard – was being discussed. In Prebble’s account, he immediately asked Mallard “What the fuck is this?” Mallard’s reply was “Geoffrey told me to put it in”. The cabinet didn’t learn about it until later.
      
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      September 15, 2024 11:55am
      - Yvette
        
        David, I welcome the correction – and the additional information that s.9 ended up in the SOE Act at Sir Geoffrey’s instruction and without Cabinet approval.
        
        “Not many people know that”
        
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        September 15, 2024 12:36pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Trevor said “Geoffrey made me do it”.
        
        Hmmm
        
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        September 15, 2024 1:31pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Oh dear. The number of trans people in England & Wales was estimated in 2021 at being 1 in 200 adults.

Turns out that non English speaking people may have struggled with the wording of the census question. The 10% of respondents with English as a second language make up 29% of transgenders.

Seems unlikely.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3030519849o
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September 15, 2024 8:32am
- kowtow
  
  NMTB
  
  Talking of English speakers in the formerly United Kingdom , I see a story where some local residents of a Welsh village have successfully argued against allowing “English speakers” to move into council housing there on the premise it will diminish its Welshness .
  
  The fact that this anti English racism passes with hardly any outrage from the usual suspects is most eleoquent.
  
  ‘Botwnnog community council controversially labelled English speakers as a “degenerative force” undermining Welsh-speaking heartlands. ‘
  
  https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/councils-call-welsh-speakers-only-29874608
  
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  September 15, 2024 2:24pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Assassination attempt.
There are more and more questions being asked.
” There Is Definitely More to This Story”

https://conservativeadvocacy.com/melania-trump-questions-governments-role-in-assassination-attempt-on-trump/?

Video and 7 points from Melania:

https://pjmedia.com/scott-pinsker/2024/09/10/melania-trump-on-the-assassination-attempt-of-her-husband-there-is-definitely-more-to-this-story-n4932404

Editors note: Big Tech is on a warpath to censor and ban Conservative voices.
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September 15, 2024 8:38am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I prefer Occam’s Razor.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor?wprov=sfla1
  
  The attempted assassination was by a crazy individual.
  
  The Secret Service stuffed up for reasons. Terrible leadership. DEI appointed oversight agents. Whatever.
  
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  September 15, 2024 9:07am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Overall what gets me with the Secret Service is Trump’s protection was from the worst of the worst agents, by design. Fair enough, Joe was President, but Trump is entitled to just as much protections as all other ex-Presidents. Being the Republican Candidate I would say more protection.
    Democrats are nasty people.
    We know this.
    
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    September 15, 2024 10:07am
  - ChristopherW2
    
    If an event is said to be the result of an implausible amount of freaky bad luck, then Occam’s Razor would imply it wasn’t an accident.
    
    They lie incessantly, they rig elections, they flout their own country’s laws, they jail innocent people and protect those who are guilty, they bomb other countries for TV ratings – of course they tried to kill him.
    
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    September 15, 2024 11:09am
    - Quail
      
      Re the assassination attempt.
      Was trying to refresh my memory of the security perimeter that excluded the assassins building.
      The perimeter red line as drawn either prior or post the assassins attempt does not seem to be available on the internet, well not after 30 minutes searching.
      There is far too much not known so speculation is growing.
      
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      September 15, 2024 12:12pm
bythesea

If you were making prediction for the next 50 years, what do you think the chances are for the following natural disasters, and what is the correct order for most concerning first (for the country) = likelihood x damage. I put a guess in but have no expertise

a) Alpine Fault (West Coast) earthquake 8+
70%
b) Hikurangi thrust quake + tsunami
25%
c) Wellington Fault earthquake 7+
20%
d) Ruapehu eruption (much bigger than 90’s one)
10%
e) Auckland volcanic region wake up
2%

Of course there is always what you don’t know like the ChCh quakes…
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September 15, 2024 8:42am
- greybeard
  
  The line of volcanic activity from Taupo to White Island must be a starter. And around Rotorua.
  
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  September 15, 2024 11:55am
- Ghost
  
  Wes were told in the 80s okataina would blow within 50 years
  
  Most concerning, I’d put solar flare
  
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  September 15, 2024 12:00pm
  - bythesea
    
    Yes – if we had another Carrington event nowadays it might be quite bad for the power grid.
    
    If you want a real fright look up Miyake events (quite rare, every few centuries fortunately).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyake_event
    
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    September 15, 2024 12:39pm
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  Or if Taranaki wakes from its slumber? It’s known to have erupted bigly in the 17th century, with smaller eruptions in the 16th, 18th and 19th centuries.
  
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  September 15, 2024 12:32pm
  - bythesea
    
    Ta, I did not know that.
    What a place NZ is!
    
    2 0
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    September 15, 2024 12:52pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Geologically speaking, the most stable part of the country is the Catlins, being furthest away from volcanoes and fault lines.
      
      Still wouldn’t want to live there, though.
      
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      September 15, 2024 1:34pm
TripeWryter

I’ve just been reading an interesting story on Stuff – it was free – about two Auckland sisters apologising to the people of Jamaica for a slave-owning Scottish ancestor.
It’s their business and if they feel the apology assuages their feelings of guilt about being descendants of a slaver then I suppose good for them.
It’s not something I would do.
I never feel compelled to apologise for anything an ancestor did.
I don’t know if any of my British ancestors were slavers.
It’s unlikely because one lot were minor county aristocracy and the others were poor.
But if I were, so what?
A great grandfather fought briefly in the Maori wars of the 1860s before he decided that that was not why he had emigrated to New Zealand. Not his war, he apparently said.
I feel neither guilt nor admiration for him. It was his life and not mine.
Britain gets a towelling about slavery.
Very little – if anything – is said about the Arabs who sold Africans into slavery in the first place.
In this country very little is said – if anything – about the Maori tribes that enslaved other Maoris but from conquered iwis.
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September 15, 2024 8:43am
- Flossie
  
  And should persons of mixed race have one half apologise to the other half?
  What was done then is well in the past, and obviously the two races have since come together in order to produce those like myself – a mix of the two.
  
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  September 15, 2024 10:34am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I read that story also. The slaver returned to Scotland with his black housekeeper/ de facto wife, acknowledged & provided for both her & their several children in his will etc. Sounds like a happy relationship within the constraints of the times. Something to celebrate, rather than condemn.
    
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    September 15, 2024 10:46am
- Jade Warrior
  
  An interesting story on Stuff? Well I never. 😊
  
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  September 15, 2024 11:41am
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  If as these sisters say NZ was built on the ill gotten gains of the past, then slavery of Africans is only one part of this. Many of Scottish and Irish descent, not to mention the lower classes of England were also used for the benefit of the British Empire. Perhaps those with ancestral links to the lords and masters will apologise to these other groups too? Not going to happen because it doesn’t fit the critical race thinking ideology.
  
  These narratives of white guilt and privilege are all part of post-modernist Marxist theory. Interestingly, it is white women who are more likely to get into the guilt and self-flagellation movement of this new religion.
  
  Stories like these are just more manipulation by the grifters intent on a new power structure.
  
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  September 15, 2024 11:57am
- OlderChas
  
  TrypeWryter: And even less about the Maori who owned European immigrants as slaves.
  
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  September 15, 2024 12:44pm
Damocles11

The agenda of ‘progressive’ outfit One Young World – that dished out one of four annual ‘One Young World Politician of the Year’ awards to Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke – seems pretty clear: ‘How can we ensure Indigenous Voices at the heart of global decision-making?’

https://x.com/OneYoungWorld/status/1833894441049858282

An interesting article here about an investigation into salaries being paid at this charity –

https://www.thirdsector.co.uk/compliance-case-looks-six-figure-salaries-global-youth-charity/governance/article/1801641
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September 15, 2024 8:44am
Damocles11

I had a listen to Red Radio yesterday as a bit of an experiment. While I was listening the head honcho of the Ngai Tahu charitable trust was being interviewed about the $2 billion in assets they have under management on behalf of 85,000 tribal members. (The income stream must be pretty good with the charity status applying to their numerous businesses, and the hefty ‘don’t block our resource consents’ payments coming in from Meridian). The honcho said “many of our people are on the bones of their arse”. 😔
After listening for a couple of hours for any content other than that devoted to Maori issues, I gave up.
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September 15, 2024 8:53am
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  Thank you, that saves me dipping my toe back into the red radio pond.
  
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  September 15, 2024 10:08am
- rouppe
  
  Ngai Tahu is a charity, for what that person calls “our people”.
  
  If they have 2 billion in assets, and “their people” are still “on the bones of their arse”, then the charity is not working as it declared with excessive profits retained, not distributed.
  
  It should be deregistered
  
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  September 15, 2024 10:11am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Maori language week. I see the State TV weather report has renamed every city in the country. Hopefully just for the duration.
    
    9 1
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    September 15, 2024 10:49am
    - rouppe
      
      Wouldn’t know. Almost never watch linear tv now…
      
      8 0
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      September 15, 2024 10:57am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Down here in Otepoti, we simply turn the tv off
      
      7 0
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      September 15, 2024 12:00pm
  - Mike
    
    So, they manage about $25,000 worth of assets per member. What level of income would you expect per person from that?
    
    2 11
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    September 15, 2024 10:58am
    - rouppe
      
      Who said anything about income?
      
      They don’t provide any social housing for their members. They facilitate budgeting advice but there’s nothing to say that budget advisor isn’t paid for by public funds.
      
      Plus that advice is only available for Ngai Tahu members with a minimum income of $80,000. So they themselves leave their poorest to fend for themselves, while looking after the middle class
      
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      September 15, 2024 1:38pm
    - Damocles11
      
      The income stream continues unabated Mike, the $2 billion of assets is simply a snapshot in time.
      Plus the 85,000 tribespeople have their own assets and income as well, let’s remember that.
      
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      September 15, 2024 1:54pm
  - Flossie
    
    Dead right rouppe. WHY are many of the whanau so badly off? What steps has the tribe taken to improve their lot? If they are indeed making so much money is it being “trickled down”, or are the head honchos doing very nicely thank you very much!
    
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    September 15, 2024 11:22am
  - Paulus
    
    As a Charity Ngai Tahu is Tax Free.
    As a Tax payer well done, and I wait for your thanks for giving you my money.
    Thank you !
    
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    September 15, 2024 1:48pm
Damocles11

An interesting article here from 2018 about huge additional ‘Treaty settlement’ payments made quietly to Ngai Tahu and Tainui. I must have missed this news back then, or there is so much of this kind of thing going on that I forgot about it. 😔

https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/23-01-2018/why-ngai-tahu-and-tainuis-treaty-payment-top-ups-are-fair-and-legal
14 1
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September 15, 2024 8:58am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Full and final is just a joke. It has to be stopped.
  
  16 3
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  September 15, 2024 10:10am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  It’s the outcome of the relativity clause inserted into at least two of the settlements. The purpose was to encourage early settlement by assuring the relevant iwi that later settlements wouldn’t dwarf those of the early movers. I suspect it doesn’t work in reverse. [smiley face emoji]
  
  I’m ok with that clause. Land settlements are important, if we can all then move forward together. I’m much less happy about rights to water, let alone spectrum.
  
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  September 15, 2024 10:54am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Kamala’s past on Immigration and Drugs.
“Harris bizarrely pledged to end immigrant detention and support taxpayer-funded gender surgeries for detained migrants.”
“Harris’s enthusiastic support for decriminalizing the use of all personal drugs—fentanyl, crack, and all.”
WHAT? If Harris wins, America is stuffed.

https://patriotpowerednetwork.com/cnn-unexpectedly-reveals-kamala-harris-radical-past-on-immigration-and-drugs/?
21 10
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September 15, 2024 9:01am
- AitchW
  
  It could be argued that it’s already stuffed. An Arden 2.0 will merely solidify the stuffing.
  As will Trump.
  God bless America.
  
  2 7
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  September 15, 2024 9:25am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    As will Trump? Came and tell me in 2028.
    
    5 6
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    September 15, 2024 10:11am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      See? There’s one of my typos and too late to edit.
      Come* and tell me in 2028.
      
      4 4
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      September 15, 2024 10:22am
    - AitchW
      
      Trump’s a blowhard. He spent more time on the golf course when president than in the Oval Office.
      He appeals to the rednecks and the rust belt. I don’t pretend to know who America has that could haul it out of the mess it’s in currently, but I’m confident that it’s not Trump or Harris.
      The American voter has to choose between an Ardern clone and a Peters clone. (Who is to a great extent a mini-Muldoon.) And the clones have been turbocharged.
      
      4 4
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      September 15, 2024 12:56pm
      - Scott
        
        AitchW – nothing you say is correct.
        Trump governed well in office and his presidency was only undone by covid.
        He started no new wars and the US economy boomed and he got illegal immigration under control.
        The US will not be stuffed under Trump. Quite the opposite.
        
        8 5
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        September 15, 2024 2:16pm
      - kowtow
        
        Trump is a blow hard and like many Presidents enjoys his golf and yes the media made an awful lot of that , and that’s ok.
        
        But a serious question of the same media is how is it only now after Sleepy Creepy Joey has effectively fully abandoned the Office that we hear he’s spent 40 % of this time on holiday and was only capable of working between 10 am and 4 pm .
        
        No one can tell me that the much vaunted WH “press corps” ( should that be corpse) didn’t know how very disfunctional Joey’s presidency was .
        
        2 2
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        September 15, 2024 2:32pm
- Paulus
  
  I expect that whoever wins the USA election the country is well and truly stuffed – thanks Joe and others.
  
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  September 15, 2024 1:50pm
Oskar

In yesterdays Post the editorial was “Is the Treaty Bill a pointless exercise?” https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350414833/treaty-bill-pointless-exercise

In it the editorial says
“While there is no strict definition of the principles that have emerged from interpretations of the Treaty by the Waitangi Tribunal over the past five decades, they generally boil down to the “three Ps”: Partnership, participation and protection.

The first says the Treaty created a partnership between Māori and the Crown. The second says the Crown will give Māori opportunities to engage in decision-making. The third says the government must actively protect Māori interests and rights.

But the principles are evolving rather than fixed. Other principles and concepts may also be considered.”

These “Three Ps” by the Treaty by the Waitangi Tribunal look a long way from what the Treaty actually says, so David Seymour’s bill should be nailing down what Treaty actually says and what it meant back in 1840. Then once is done as a separate exercise there be a sensible discussion on what it means today.
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September 15, 2024 9:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The Waitangi Tribunal today is a racist propaganda machine.
  
  21 4
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  September 15, 2024 10:16am
  - AitchW
    
    SO it certainly cranks out huge volumes of pro Maori/anti government propaganda.
    It produces screeds of press releases opining that pretty much everything the government is doing/has done/is proposing to do is contrary to the principles of Te Tiriti.
    Have the much vaunted principles ever been defined and recorded in writing? I’d love to see a copy if they have.
    
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    September 15, 2024 10:27am
  - Paulus
    
    How much of taxpayers money does it cost to keep the Waitangi Tribunal, and hangers on ?
    
    4 0
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    September 15, 2024 1:52pm
Mobile Michael

Stuff has given up on employing people capable of writing in English – this journalist couldn’t think of a less vulgar term than “s** fight”:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/350414511/explained-fight-over-auckland-airports-redevelopment

Instead, try:
Contention
Quagmire
Difficult situation
Scrap
Wrangle
Stand-off
Impasse
Deadlock
Stalemate
12 1
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September 15, 2024 10:04am
- David Garrett
  
  MM: And have you noticed that it is now apparently called PUNA?? (Which is suppose is pidgin Maori for “stuff”)
  
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  September 15, 2024 10:36am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It’s Maori Language Week… started on Saturday.
    
    7 0
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    September 15, 2024 11:07am
    - Albie
      
      Really Maggy? I have come to the conclusion that in “Aotearoa” every week is Maori language week!
      
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      September 15, 2024 3:48pm
  - Jade Warrior
    
    Stuff change their name to “Puna” during every Māori language week. Just virtue signalling of course and it once again illustrates how out of step Stuff/Puna is with the values and expectations of ordinary New Zealanders.
    
    And given how so many of their journalists appear seriously challenged by the basics of English grammar and vocabulary (some people on this thread have already posted some examples) you’d think that Stuff would get its English house in order first before turning their attention to Māori.
    
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    September 15, 2024 11:45am
  - AitchW
    
    The translation of Puna :
    https://maoridictionary.co.nz/word/6176
    
    2 1
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    September 15, 2024 1:38pm
    - Jack5
      
      So this week it’s Wet Stuff?
      
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      September 15, 2024 8:53pm
Swifty

Stuff seriously expects people to part with their hard-earned dough and subscribe to them for this juvenile garbage?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350415740/paddy-gower-i-know-exactly-what-needed-save-wellington

FFS.

And this is the output of someone who is described as a senior journalist. A veteran. A media star.

My god how news media and journalism standards have fallen.
25 2
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September 15, 2024 10:34am
- Mike
  
  Seems a fair breakdown of some of the region’s issues. Linking it to the king’s hug will strike a reader as quirky, apt, or annoying depending on prejudice. But thanks for pointing it out – I enjoyed it.
  
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  September 15, 2024 11:04am
- AitchW
  
  A very, laboured allegory.
  It read like a 5th form homework essay to be honest. Not Mr Gower’s best work. Or, perhaps, it is.
  
  13 1
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  September 15, 2024 1:41pm
- Prince
  
  To summarise, ‘Wellington needs hugs’.
  And that’s supposed to be insightful journalism !
  
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  September 15, 2024 3:59pm
Ghost

Sisters apologise for something they weren’t responsible for…..

Two Auckland sisters want New Zealanders to think about how the country was colonised by Europeans with fortunes made from the labour of slaves from Africa.

Kate Thomas and Aidee Walker have returned from Jamaica, where they made a public apology on behalf of their family who are descended from a Scottish slave owner with a notorious history of hanging his slaves.

Article

Oh that explains it, one worked for spark, the other an actor.
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September 15, 2024 11:27am
- Swifty
  
  My people came here, on my father’s side, from Scotland and in poor circumstances and carved a life out of, initially, the South Island soils, by hand and shovel.
  
  On my mother’s side her father arrived here in 1925 from the slums of Glasgow and having fought in the trenches of The Somme in the Gordon Highlanders.
  
  Not a slave-owning baron to be seen.
  
  But that aside, I’ll start apologising for the misdeeds of my ancestors, should any of my ancestors are found to have misbehaved, when the last Maori apologises for the misbehaviour of their ancestors against fellow Maori including war, invasion, wholesale butchery, rape, slavery and cannibalism and pay reparations to any living descendants of their victims, should they be found.
  
  Let’s start the apologies at home first shall we, and then we’ll move to apologies for events half a world away.
  
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  September 15, 2024 12:55pm
  - david
    
    Generally quite difficult to identify the descendants of a victim of cannibalism so I suppose that cohort would be self limiting.
    
    2 2
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    September 15, 2024 2:57pm
    - Swifty
      
      Oh I dunno about that.
      
      Mum and Dad captured and eaten but kids, especially the female kids, kept as slaves.
      
      Or kids all grown up and elsewhere when Mum or Dad had the dirty deed done to them.
      
      Highly plausible.
      
      1 1
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      September 15, 2024 3:29pm
      - Jack5
        
        Surely it was presumptuous of these two to apologise on behalf of a whole Scottish clan.
        
        No evidence is offered of official approval by the clan, which is Clan Malcolm, also known as Clan MacCallum. It’s headed by Robin Neill Lochnell Malcolm, 19th Laird of Poltalloch. You would have thought any apology would have come from him.
        
        It was pretentious of the sisters to berate NZ this way:
        
        “We want … also to alert New Zealand and Australia to the fact that we have so many people who have descended and benefited from enslavers.”
        
        Maori were not only slavers but at times ate their slaves. So many, most, or all, Maori as well as many who identify as White, descend from people who benefited from slavery — as well as from others who survived it. Are these two women berating Maori for their ancestors’ slavery practices?
        
        For perspective: At the time of Maori enslavement and murder of Chatham Islanders – 1835 – the Royal Navy’s West African Squadron was in its 50-year campaign to end slave transport from Africa. The Royal Navy freed 150,000 slaves.
        
        Perhaps the key is the article’s acknowledgement that “the whole apology process became Jamaican led.”
        
        The Jamaicans will also ask for apologies from the West Africans who captured or bought slaves for very profitable re-sale to White and other slavers? Yeah, right.
        
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        September 15, 2024 8:44pm
- AitchW
  
  Ghost, is it a proper apology without a decent dollop of koha attached?
  
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  September 15, 2024 1:43pm
Pope Punctilious II

Why do Arabs lose wars? According to this video, contemporary Arab cultural attitudes undermine the cohesion and effectiveness of their armed forces.
1 0
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September 15, 2024 12:38pm
Jack5

Questions rise about the economic value of the UK’s large scale immigration.

Karl Williams writes in the Telegraph that “mass low-skilled migration is a financial disaster for Britain.”

His opinion is behind the paywall, but here’s a summary …

Britain’s Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) has concluded “low-wage migrant workers” are a fiscal drain from the time they enter the country. By the time they reach 81, they each will have cost the taxpayer 465,000 pounds ($NZ990,830).

However, the OBR says migrants on wages about the same as average British people arrive around age 25. The country doesn’t pay for their education or upkeep. They don’t become over-all net recipients until they are “very old”.

Above this group, “high wage” migrant workers (on 30 per cent more than the UK average wage benefit public finances.

The writer, Karl Williams, is deputy research director at Britain’s Centre for Policy Studies.

He writes: “For years, economic orthodoxy has held that all migrant workers are contributors, which suggests that the more migrants Britain admits, the richer it will be. Still, the negative net cost only applies to one group.”

The role of Britain’s Office for Budget Responsibility includes using public finance forecasts to judge the Government’s performance against its fiscal targets.
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September 15, 2024 12:55pm
- mogg
  
  I think it was in that same report that 80% of Somali immigrants/ dependents to the UK never work at all,
  There was no figure given but if a low wage worker costs almost $1 M what does a non worker cost maybe $2 M ??. Tax payers are being taken for fools.
  
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  September 15, 2024 1:25pm
Swifty

Biden and Putin make such beautiful music together:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/F5iUecDpEvPhfFGT/?mibextid=UalRPS
2 3
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September 15, 2024 1:55pm
Swifty

This has been served up to me on FB a few times of late – it shows a young Harris.

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/r21hKsZKQ6Nqo8gM/?mibextid=UalRPS

“Are you his daughter?”

“No, I’m not……”

I guess the Dems won’t be too happy it is in circulation.
2 2
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September 15, 2024 3:00pm
- MCōs
  
  Shock Horror
  https://www.reuters.com/article/world/fact-check-kamala-harrisandwillie-brownhad-a-relationshipover-adecadeafte-idUSKBN26Y2RJ/
  
  1 1
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  September 15, 2024 5:45pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh dear… I forgot…

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/14/keir-starmer-alleged-to-have-broken-parliamentary-rules-over-gifts-to-wife

It’s not easy being a busy politician…
5 0
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September 15, 2024 3:00pm
Swifty

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/528044/pm-luxon-police-minister-mark-mitchell-say-auckland-assaults-are-dropping

Ginny Andersen won’t believe these numbers. She’ll think they’re all LIES and that HER numbers show crime in the Auckland CBD is through the roof!

TVNZ must get her back on – we all need a good laugh.
8 1
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September 15, 2024 3:22pm
Ghost

Hmmm, do you ring 111 to report the accident or just let the other person report it?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350416031/police-car-involved-two-vehicle-crash-timaru
0 0
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September 15, 2024 3:32pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350412553/swapping-car-parks-cycleways-business-destroyer-or-new-opportunity
This article must have been commissioned by Wgtn nutty cyclists and nutty WCC employees.
None of whom actually live in Wgtn.
7 3
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September 15, 2024 4:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Many here give me a hard time about Barrak Obama and Big Mike.
So here is some fake news – or is it?
Decade?

https://patriotsbeacon.com/why-was-michelle-obama-registered-as-a-man-for-over-a-decade-15/

The link “actual documents” has a wait time.

https://www.scribd.com/document/582558999/Michelle-Obama-1994-Illinois-Voter-Registration-Card-as-a-Male-and-2008-form-shows-change-of-Sex-to-Female

Now confused as most, except those who have made up their minds that ‘Big Mike’ is fiction.
2 6
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September 15, 2024 5:16pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I know, here the naysayers come…..
  
  2 5
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  September 15, 2024 5:17pm
  - Mike
    
    There was a commenter here years ago who believed Barack Obama had been a prostitute in the ‘Chicago bathhouse scene. Another commenter believed Queen Elizabeth personally ate several children while visiting Canada in the 1960s.
    Deranged or deluded? You be the judge.
    
    1 5
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    September 15, 2024 7:42pm
- ChristopherW2
  
  I was curious.
  
  At the link within the link:
  “Was Michelle born a man, and did she have a sex change operation in 2008? As an investigative documentary reporter, I have to go where the facts lead me. The answer is emphatically no! Michelle was born female. Her voter registration as a male was likely a clerical error of some sort made when Michelle completed her 1994 voter registration form. She must have only noticed it in 2008 and corrected it appropriately…”
  
  https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/07/michelle_obamas_changing_sexual_identity.html
  
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  September 15, 2024 8:00pm
Ghost

July

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has again encouraged people with information about allegations of a paedophile ring in the 1980s to come forward to police.

The Royal Commission report into Abuse in Care was released this week and referenced allegations of offending against children by politicians and public servants in the 1980s.

Article

Today

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon is urging anyone with information relevant to claims of historical child sex abuse concerning the late former National minister Anthony “Aussie” Malcolm to talk to police.

Article
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September 15, 2024 6:58pm
- Jack5
  
  In New Zealand you cannot “defame the dead,” but apparently Maori want this rule changed.
  
  As John Milton wrote in Areopagitica in 1644:
  
  “Though all the winds of doctrine were let loose to play upon the earth, so Truth be in the field, we do injuriously by license and prohibit to misdoubt her strength. Let her and Falsehood grapple; whoever knew Truth put to the worse, in a free and open encounter.”
  
  Making sure the encounter’s “free and open” is the challenge.
  
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  September 15, 2024 9:07pm

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Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

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