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September 14, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 14 September 2024

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General Debate

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peterwn

‘ACT achieves total victory on Treaty Principles Bill – Matthew Hooton’ (Herald paywalled)
I wonder what stuff Matthew is on. There is only ‘total victory’ when the Governor General’s signature is on the final version.
‘Christopher Luxon’s apparent impotence is particularly embarrassing since, the morning after the election, in his All Blacks’ jersey, he sold himself as a master negotiator.’ Matthew continues.
Well, Matthew, welcome to MMP. MMP is working just like its proponents expected it to work.
There is no embarassment here – Chris Luxon needed to make bargains to successfully put together the coalition and he is now being criticised for sticking to bargains. Chris is no more impotent than any other ‘primus inter pares’ (first among equals) in any coalition government – the minor party leaders can always pull the ‘chicken switch’on the coalition.
Welcome to MMP, Matthew. Try and find out a bit more how it works.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/act-achieves-total-victory-on-treaty-principles-bill-matthew-hooton/T54RW25RHBEQVKTFVEH6CRTDXM/ (paywalled)
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September 14, 2024 8:01am
- SmokerGuy
  
  He is completely delusional, I am taking a guess but I reckon ACT will definitely lose support on this issue and they made a grave mistake pushing for it. Whether you like it or not, most kiwis don’t want this debate. Personally I have support for what ACT wanted to do but sadly it’s never gonna happen because NZ is too weak to do anything that upsets the apple cart. Therefore we will never come close to reaching our potential as a country. All ACT are doing is burning political capital when they could be using it on things that could provide meaningful change
  
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  September 14, 2024 10:27am
  - bennerg
    
    Smoker, while you may be right that “most kiwis don’t want this debate”, the reason sadly is they do not want the radical s**t that is going to come from it.
    
    What they do want is to get rid of the “treaty gravy train”, the guilt tripping, the complete waste of money taken from today’s people working hard to make a living, for what happened over 100 years ago. None of the people who signed the treaty are alive today, neither their children, grandchildren, great grandchildren … and so on.
    
    We have a society where there is opportunity. What happens is that people do not take up those opportunities. I see refugees coming to this country with literally $10 in their pocket, and through hard word and determination, end up owning their own home after a few years, and making a success of their and their children’s lives.
    
    I also see others born in this country, not interested in success through hard work, but relying on perceived grieveances and expectations of special treatment to make their way in life.
    
    Until that culture is dealt to, we will have continuing unrest and one of the lowest productivity rates in the OECD.
    
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    September 14, 2024 10:41am
  - Sparrow
    
    Totally agree. Talk of referendums is pie in the sky stuff. Fight the battles you have some chance of winning this cause was lost years ago. The government is right in basing policy on needs not whether you are white, brown etc etc. Controlling the purse strings is the way.
    
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    September 14, 2024 11:25am
    - peterwn
      
      The objective at this stage is to put an end to the continuing scope creep of Treaty interpretations. Many ordinary people would support this.
      
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      September 14, 2024 12:46pm
  - ChristopherW2
    
    Referendum or not, we Kiwis want the debate.
    
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    September 14, 2024 12:23pm
  - Philview
    
    The problem is the last Government spent 18 months negotiating He Puapua with Iwi. Jacinda told the country it wasn’t policy but started implementing it at speed. The media were effectively paid off to look the other way. There will be no debate but radical change is coming once we get another Labour/Green/TPM Government. The leaders of those 3 parties say Iwi never ceded sovereignty. The media, the churches, the public service, Iwi and the education sector are fighting this government hard. They don’t want a debate on the future of this country.
    
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    September 14, 2024 1:32pm
  - JJ56
    
    Who bought his last lunch?
    
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    September 14, 2024 3:18pm
- Paulus
  
  Hooten getting over mature, and needs to be put aside as over ripe, and for the dump.
  
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  September 14, 2024 11:38am
Tomtoddy

The theory of global warming says greenhouse gases interact with infrared energy that is bouncing off the earth’s surface and heading out into space. There are countless billions of molecules of these gases competing to interact with this out-going energy.

In one cubic metre of atmosphere there are 40 million H2O molecules and 410,000 CO2 molecules competing to interact with the photons of energy.

Oh, I forgot to add there are 2 ruminant methane molecules somewhere deep in that cubic metre too, vying for a chance to play a role. They don’t have a dog’s show of making any difference.

Some scientists, apparently intelligent, think those two molecules among the 40 odd million, all doing the same thing, need to be hunted down and eliminated because they are causing big problems. Very strange!!!
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September 14, 2024 8:06am
- Cassandra
  
  Unfortunately a theory has been accepted as a fact. To my eye – Stage 1 physics and chemistry so not much, just a smattering of scientific understanding – the thesis just doesn’t stand up. And the Norwegian project which demonstrates that even if CO2 is the problem it’s already at saturation, therefore we need to mitigate. Reducing dairy cows will make no difference and will actually cause harm because it will reduce our capacity to mitigate, for example.
  
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  September 14, 2024 8:13am
  - Andrew Worth
    
    Yes it’s at saturation, that’s why a linear increase in GHG concentrations only results in a diminishing logarithmic strengthening of the GH Effect.
    If it wasn’t saturated a linear increase in concentrations would lead to a linear increase in the strength of the GH Effect.
    
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    September 14, 2024 10:57am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      It’s OK. You can spell it out in plain English.
      
      The alarmist game is almost up anyway.
      
      More Co2 will have a negligible effect. What we are experiencing now is just cyclical. None of it is unprecedented and all the temp and Co2 level proxies tell the same story; Co2 can not drive the climate to any significant degree.
      
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      September 14, 2024 3:08pm
      - Andrew Worth
        
        Climate scientists understand it’s saturated and the projected rises in temperature are based on that.
        
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        September 14, 2024 4:49pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        A W “climate scientists” kowtowing to the narrative, point to modelling of their hypothesised “feedbacks” to paper over the cracks and beef up the alarm.
        
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        September 14, 2024 5:06pm
      - Andrew Worth
        
        You’re a flat earther explaining why all the explorers, for hundreds of years, lied about the shape of the earth.
        
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        September 14, 2024 7:04pm
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  If you are genuinely interested in actually understanding the difference between atmospheric water vapor and CO2 in their impact on the climate, there is an explanation here. Didn’t take me all that long to find.
  
  https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2019/07/30/co2-drives-global-warming/
  
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  September 14, 2024 8:22am
  - Cassandra
    
    Dudley: I’m aware of this thesis but there are also other scientists who have alternative opinions. It’s actually not all that important, practically, for NZ. India and China etc will continue to burn coal – ffs, we will too! – but if the Norwegians are right then so what? NZ must do what it needs to do, don’t make a fuss and don’t waste money on futile gestures such as electric cars.
    
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    September 14, 2024 11:34am
  - ChristopherW2
    
    That short article simply says, ‘it is because scientists say it is’, which isn’t a good argument and isn’t even true.
    
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    September 14, 2024 12:26pm
    - Handyman
      
      Quite right.
      Imagine you are on trial for say murder. The judge begins…”many lawyers say you are guilty, so no need for a trial”.
      A trial could be full of disinformation which will upset people who have been correctly informed via Facebook.
      “20 years for you!”
      
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      September 14, 2024 12:54pm
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        That nurse in the UK is experiencing the full force of such reasoning. As did Peter Ellis.
        
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        September 14, 2024 1:16pm
  - Handyman
    
    As soon as I read “scientists say” I mentally fill in the rest of the sentence… “lots of crazy stuff”.
    The rest of the article is moot.
    As a scientist I always trace back to the source and evaluate it on the facts.
    
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    September 14, 2024 1:03pm
- Grunter
  
  Very strange indeed – it almost sounds like a scam!
  
  And that’s before you ask the question “so what do we do about this?” Stop eating meat and stop using all fossil fuels…….Now that makes it very clear – this is a scam.
  
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  September 14, 2024 8:40am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Have a look at where the UK gets some of its official Temperature measurements:
  
  https://dailysceptic.org/2024/09/13/more-horror-pictures-emerge-showing-locations-of-met-office-extreme-record-temperatures/
  
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  September 14, 2024 8:42am
  - CJames
    
    The official highest temperature recorded in UK (>40°), occurred at an RAF base temperature sensor over a 6 minute period Typhoons were on the runway. But that was irrelevant for the Met Office.
    https://dailysceptic.org/2022/11/27/fresh-doubts-emerge-about-40-3c-u-k-temperature-record-next-to-airfield-runway/
    We have same problem with NIWA data. And people wonder why the organisations have credibility problems.
    
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    September 14, 2024 8:52am
    - Chris Nisbet
      
      I have a bit of a problem when organisations like NIWA tell us that the best way to deal with increased CO2 levels (assuming that’s something that needs to be dealt with) is to stop burning fossil fuels.
      Isn’t it their job to simply tell us about the weather, not to tell us what we have to completely upend society to deal with a slightly warmer (on average) planet? We have insane politicians for that job.
      
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      September 14, 2024 11:22am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        It is the Met Office job to tell us about the weather.
        
        NIWA has been double-dipping in the Meteorological budget since its inception (formerly Oceanographic Institute and parts of MOW – Fresh Water Division – and MAF – Fisheries Research)
        
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        September 14, 2024 2:04pm
    - Dougal10
      
      I remember the weather station in oamaru getting moved because people felt the old one showed it as a cold town on the news. Historical records are rubbish in rubbish out.
      
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      September 14, 2024 4:17pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    ” 96% of 4,000 plus measuring stations corrupted by poor placement.”
    Poor placement? I would say deliberate placement. We are dealing with scamsters.
    
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    September 14, 2024 12:09pm
- sherp
  
  Considering it’s basically only ruminants and fumgi that can digest cellulose and metabolise it into hydrocarbons that other organisms can digest… I think we would be a lot worse off without cattle being able to take cellulose that’s in grass and convert this into energy we can eat… greenies want us all to eat grass but don’t understand we can’t digest it…
  
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  September 14, 2024 8:43am
- surfing
  
  Yawn, another armchair scientist. That’s the problem with google, it encourages conspiracy theories.
  
  Now you’ve decided all climate scientists are dumb (excepting those who agree with you?) , let us have your theory.
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:12am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Conspiracy theorists used to be called sceptics.
    Sceptics are valuable in testing ideas and assessing information.
    Everyone is a sceptic to some degree, otherwise they would be an agreeably smiling zombie.
    
    But, for some, sceptic just doesn’t have that derogatory ring to it!
    
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    September 14, 2024 10:15am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      No you are quite mistaken.
      
      Conspiracy theorists and skeptics are opposites.
      
      Skeptics try to align their alternative explanation for a result with observations and sciences.
      
      For example, I know that homeopathy is rubbish. I know it is rubbish because I understand science. Being skeptical of a miracle cure as being a placebo replaces a belief in the hideously complex mechanism of homeopathy, with the simplest theory: homeopathy does nothing because it is nothing. It is water.
      
      In summary, conspiracy theorists rely on complexity. Sceptics rely on simplicity. Hence Occam’s razor.
      
      It is science that tells us that co2 increases do cause increases in global temperatures despite being a “trace gas”. Might a new theory overturn that conclusion? Yes of course. However it has not happened yet.
      
      There is now a literature that examines the reasons for climate change denial. From both sociologists and psychologists.
      
      https://psychology.org.au/community/advocacy-social-issues/environment-climate-change-psychology/resources-for-psychologists-and-others-advocating/the-psychology-of-climate-change-denial
      
      There is also an emerging literature that explores the drivers of climate change and covid 19 vaccine conspiracy theories.
      
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8849212/
      
      Unsurprisingly, if someone thinks that climate change is a conspiracy, it is unlikely that they got that covid vaccine booster. 😅
      
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      September 14, 2024 10:52am
      - Andrew Worth
        
        I’m critical of skeptical thinking, preferring to invest in critical thinking.
        
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        September 14, 2024 11:02am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Not quite sure of your reasoning, perhaps you could simplify it.
        
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        September 14, 2024 12:07pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Ben while you correctly portray those two groups as being black and white tribal entities ideologically, they share a high degree of alignment at a values level. They both have a desire to seek the truth and are prepared to question the conventional position on things.
        
        There is another body of thought that strong people will take advantage of weak people and will use whatever forms of psychological manipulation are available to them to do so. This is particularly true of people with psychopathic, narcissistic, sadistic personalities – who are geared to control and manipulate others and get a kick out of doing others harm. These type of people are naturally motivated to seek and secure offices of power – in religious bodies, public institutions, academia etc. It is these wolves that we must protect the sheep from. Many of the priests of woke are these dark triad personality types nudging and manipulating society for their personal gain.
        
        So there is a fundamental survival instinct at play in questioning and being sceptical about the intentions of others. Whether you are a rationalist or a conspiracy theorist, if your motivation is to fight off the wolves, then you need to focus on who is the real foe and that you can still be friends with fellow fighters.
        
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        September 14, 2024 12:25pm
      - ChristopherW2
        
        The Climate Sceptical position is actually:
        
        1) Yes, CO2 can cause warming, but for ‘anthropogenic’ CO2, the effect is small. The Theory actually recognises this, which is why ‘secondary forcings’ are required.
        
        2) Large historical changes in temperature, over whatever timescale you like, strongly suggest that the majority of what little warming we can actually see is natural, a complex consequence of many factors. Ominously, on every timescale but that of a few short centuries, the Earth is cooling sharply.
        
        3) Besides, much of what passes for warming is fictitious, most obviously that Urban Heat Island effects are extremely localised, but are not at all properly adjusted for. This is why models are used so heavily in the political debate.
        
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        September 14, 2024 12:41pm
      - Taieri
        
        There is now a literature that examines the reasons
        ———–
        
        There’s now also a vast amount of presumably “scientific” literature that tells us that men can become women. This is being taught at schools and universities. Even courts and parliaments confirm this to be true.
        
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        September 14, 2024 1:26pm
      - Handyman
        
        Not quite Benedict.
        Skeptics (in the general case) are not fully accepting the proposed explanation as the total solution. For example, a CFO could be skeptical of the benefits claimed in a capex request.
        The science community is full of skeptics in many areas and until recently this was not a pejorative term. People simply had different, sometimes tightly held, opinions, defended with vim and occasionally vitriol. Reputations rose and fell on explanations of scientific explanations. I sure everyone remembers the great arguments over whether pterodactyls could fly or just glide.
        What normally happens in a scientific field is that the earliest evidence is vague and open to many interpretations — think DNA prior to the double helix. Different scientists posit different theories and set out to gather evidence for their theory. Over time more information comes to light and usually one theory becomes widely accepted eg Newton ‘s laws. In today’s language, Einstein was a skeptic because he didn’t think Newtons laws explained everything.
        
        I think the defining feature of Conspiracy theories is that they require collusion on the part of many individuals. The greater the number of individuals, the more unlikely is that it is a conspiracy. Who killed JFK? is more possible than the moon landing and so on up to climate change and covid. For the avoidance of doubt, I do not subscribe to any of these.
        
        Back to climate change…
        The evidence is still being gathered. Earlier predictions based on the earlier theories have not come to pass. There is still not a general theory that can explain the past and predict the future. “Scientists say” is not evidence in this context.
        
        I suggest we reserve the word “skeptic’ as an honorable part of the scientific community and use the word “heretic” for those not agreeing with what some “scientists say”. Included in “scientists say” are teenage girls who’s claim to fame is not attending school. (Can she please settle the argument over pterodactyl flight or glide).
        The climate change world is much more akin to religion than any other structure. Re miracles… “To the believer, no evidence is necessary; to the non-believer, no evidence is possible”.
        
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        September 14, 2024 1:55pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        BY you are in batman territory with the pathetic “literature” tar brushing eminent atmospheric physicists as bedfellows of covid conspiracy theorists.
        
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        September 14, 2024 2:38pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I’m skeptical of propaganda.
        
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        September 14, 2024 3:08pm
      - judith8409121
        
        only someone deep in the co2 cult could connect those that present alternative positions (such as a nobel physicist who understands that co2 cannot heat anything) with taking a ridiculous big pharma drug that does nothing. But you be you BY clearly you think along the lines of those that believe mutilating men make women and other cults of the middle class who want to signal they have their luxury beliefs and so ruin the energy industry and other social norms.
        
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        September 14, 2024 8:30pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  There is that much snow in the high country it’s not funny at present, for instance, coronet peak does not usually get a metre of snow during the season, it just touched the 2 metre mark with the thirty centre metres on Friday, many ski fields received half a metre this time and its mid September
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:34am
  - Taieri
    
    No good. All the rivers will be running high and discoloured from the melt at the start of the trout season.
    
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    September 14, 2024 1:28pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  This post is relevant to your post Tom
  
  Owen Jennings: Now Here’s a Funny Thing.
  
  https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/09/owen-jennings-now-heres-funny-thing.html#more
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:58am
Chuck Bird

Sadly, some people are criticizing David for not doing enough on racial equality.

DAVID SEYMOUR: “Need, not race” circular honours universal human rights

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/david-seymour-need-not-race-circular-honours-universal-human-rights
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September 14, 2024 8:06am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Where are the reporters asking why Maori millionaires should be prioritised over poor non Maoris?
  
  Not exactly a cutting edge question, but seems to be beyond any MSM journalist.
  
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  September 14, 2024 8:13am
  - peterwn
    
    It is not about hard facts. It is all about influencing peoples’ feelings especially if they do not like the current coalition.
    
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    September 14, 2024 9:45am
- Souvlaki
  
  Yes….a serious indictment on NZ, and the ethnocentricity actively foisted on ‘sleepy’ NZ by Labour and their cohorts. Frankly, a moral disgrace.
  Now , to defund the University of Auckland for forcing ALL new students to do a compulsory course in Maoritanga next year.
  This, as Parmjeet Parmar points out is indoctrination….and I regard it as intolerable….a death knell for academia if allowed to continue.😕
  
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  September 14, 2024 8:21am
- Cassandra
  
  Seymour is the leader in this. But hat off to Don Brash and Shane Jones too. It’d be great if the National Party could develop a spine. Its approach is that Hitler loved dogs, he wasn’t all bad. There isn’t a compromise here – either we accept that Maoris have priority or we don’t. I don’t. Unless we stop it now He Puapua will be back. Maori wards – and seats – are racist. And all the other Maori only travesties.
  
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  September 14, 2024 8:21am
  - Scott
    
    Cassandra, no, National’s approach is to remove the references to the Treaty of Waitangi out of the legislation unless it is directly relevant.
    That’s different to Act’s referendum but it’s also a valid approach.
    
    National leads this coalition and they’ve been doing a great job getting race out of the delivery of health and water.
    
    So. National’s approach, which is clearly stated in the coalition agreement with NZ First, is to get references to the Treaty of Waitangi out of the legislation. That’s not wrong.
    
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    September 14, 2024 8:47am
    - Damocles11
      
      So has National deleted all references to ‘the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi’ out of legislation? Of course they haven’t. National and NZ First reckon they have an alternative to Seymours course of action, yet they aren’t doing anything about implementing it. This is not ‘doing a great job’, this is a case of fiddling while Rome burns. It is sad that National – and NZ First – supporters choose to wilfully delude themselves over this. Seymour is doing all the heavy lifting and bearing the leftist attacks because of it. How cowardly of his coalition partners to leave the burden to him.
      
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      September 14, 2024 10:14am
      - Ghost
        
        Actually, with this government they do something unique, the prime minister lets you know every four months what the work for the next four months will be. They’ve already done a fair bit of what all parties agreed to. When it gets to that part it will be announced in the next slot of priorities. This government has a lot to clean up, stop expecting it all to be done at once
        
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        September 14, 2024 10:25am
      - Scott
        
        Thank you ghost for your thoughtful comments.
        Unfortunately there are a number of people on this blog who have got in their heads National are weak and woke and nothing will persuade them otherwise.
        
        On race National is doing what they said they’d do and what their agreement with NZ First says they’ll do. They have stopped He Puapua, they have stopped all work on hate speech, they’ve got rid of 3 waters and separate race based health care and race based surgical waiting lists.
        
        No they’ve not done everything yet. But they’re doing a damned good job and I for one am grateful that we have a prime minister who may speak softly but carries a big stick. 😎
        
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        September 14, 2024 10:32am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Heard Peter’s talking about this, he said they are working through each item one by one
        
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        September 14, 2024 12:12pm
      - AitchW
        
        Ghost, and what’s even more impressive is that when the PM says the government will do something, the government actually does it. Unlike the last mob who promised the earth and delivered shit!
        
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        September 14, 2024 1:14pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I’m prepared to hold my breath while the coalition painstakingly sifts through the wreckage caused by the recent clown show and rebuilds brick by brick. The real problem down the track though is a large section of the pop who are disengaged from politics and may let a clown show 2.0 sleaze back in to wreck everything good all over again.
        
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        September 14, 2024 5:12pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Scott.. That was a New Zealand First policy to remove those clauses. Not National.
      
      More importantly, what will removing those clauses achieve? I mean exactly. You would need to ask the folk who administer the Acts. Nothing would be my guess.
      
      This whole thing is shaping up to be a mess. You have a government introducing a Bill that the PM has vowed to defeat. It is an ad for the stupidity of MMP.
      
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      September 14, 2024 11:00am
      - Scott
        
        Benedict – the removal of the clauses is in the coalition agreement between National and NZ First. What effect will it have?
        Well it’s hard to argue that the govt is not meeting their responsibilities under the treaty of Waitangi if the treaty of Waitangi is not mentioned in the relevant legislation?
        
        So it could have a very big effect. If multiple pieces of legislation have all reference to the Treaty of Waitangi removed that sends a very big signal.
        
        And Winston is saying there are no principles in the Treaty. So that sounds good to me.
        
        Maybe we can move on as one people and one nation. 😎
        
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        September 14, 2024 11:27am
    - Cassandra
      
      Scott: that’s NZF’s policy, not National’s.
      
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      September 14, 2024 11:37am
      - Scott
        
        Cassandra, my point is that National has signed on to it as part of their coalition agreement with NZ First. So that’s good.
        National is committed to it. Great.
        
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        September 14, 2024 11:52am
- artemisia
  
  David Seymour – Government contracting decisions should be made on the basis of value for money, full stop.
  
  Hard to understand why that is controversial. Could it possibly have something to do with ‘Follow the Money’? Sadly the GP practice owners union is the latest to join the queue with alarmist predictions (more people will die in the ED) if they don’t get more of OPM.
  
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  September 14, 2024 8:24am
  - Swifty
    
    Wanting value for taxpayer money is racist artemisia, it means you want to genocide Maori.
    
    I’ve seen the light and invite you to see it too.
    
    If that means that Tuku, John and Willie get new Range Rovers every few years to park in their $5m houses then we must look upon that as a good thing, it’s a sign of Maori success.
    
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    September 14, 2024 9:26am
    - CJames
      
      It isn’t Range Rovers. It is black Ford Rangers with all the bling on.
      
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      September 14, 2024 9:58am
      - Swifty
        
        I stand corrected.
        
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        September 14, 2024 10:10am
      - Colville
        
        CJ. You are delusional is you think those boys drive poxy Fords…they are for the riff raff, local iwi buy them buy the dozen.
        
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        September 14, 2024 11:51am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Targeting services like healthcare and education based on race is lazy and divisive. The emphasis for the public service should be fitting services to the needs of every New Zealander.
  :
  Our population is more diverse than just Māori and non-Māori, but you wouldn’t know it from the way government departments have been operating.
  
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  September 14, 2024 8:36am
  - Swifty
    
    I put that to my Indian flattie last night and his newly arrived wife.
    
    “What are your thoughts on poor Indians paying full whack for their health services but rich Maori getting it for free?”
    
    You could see the cogs starting to whir.
    
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    September 14, 2024 9:53am
  - Paulus
    
    I thought that the “accepted” statistical evidence uncorroberated, and unproven, is that Maori are some 15% of the population, and a vast number of those choose to live in Australia and Overseas.
    
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    September 14, 2024 11:44am
- Grunter
  
  Seymour is doing a top job, no doubt about that. I’ve emailed him to explain this weeks change to the Treaty Bill article 2 where Cabinet has inserted Hapu and Iwi rights into the wording. I can not find any detailed explanation on what that specifically means and David has yet to reply to my email (busy boy no doubt).
  
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  September 14, 2024 8:44am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Cabinet did not determine the change to the second article, Seymour changed it before bringing it too cabinet, why do Act supports have to stretch the truth?
    
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    September 14, 2024 9:42am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      OK can you explain what it means? That would be better than squabbling about who did it.
      
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      September 14, 2024 11:02am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        No ffs, I am so sick of Act voters saying were done by Nats, this was changed before it was presented to cabinet, I told you Seymour f…..d this up originally, he should have clearly had his words in place instead of letting people think he wants to change the treaty
        
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        September 14, 2024 12:16pm
      - JJ56
        
        “2. Rights of Hapū and Iwi Māori – The Crown recognises the rights that hapū and iwi had when they signed the Treaty/te Tiriti. The Crown will respect and protect those rights. Those rights differ from the rights everyone has a reasonable expectation to enjoy only when they are specified in legislation, Treaty settlements, or other agreement with the Crown.”
        
        Pretty straightforward. If the Crown or Parliament has recognised/agreed special rights for Iwi or Hapu held prior to the Treaty that recognition/agreement will continue to be honoured.
        
        Hard to disagree with that.
        
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        September 14, 2024 3:15pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “No ffs, I am so sick of Act voters saying were done by Nats,..”
        
        I do not understand the rest of your comment.
        
        You are, as usual, turning public policy discussions into some tribal National vs. ACT debate.
        
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        September 14, 2024 3:29pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        For some people this is like discussing favourite footy teams.
        
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        September 14, 2024 5:14pm
    - pdm
      
      Are you sure about Seymour changing it before it went to Cabinet G?
      
      My understanding is that it was changed in Cabinet.
      
      The change in clause 2 looks very much like a sop to co-governance to me and I would be very surprised if Seymour initiated that wording.
      
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      September 14, 2024 12:45pm
    - Dougal10
      
      Are you getting direct briefings from a cabinet minister as you seem to know everything about what seymour does in this govt
      
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      September 14, 2024 4:38pm
  - rouppe
    
    The first thing that flashed across my mind was “we are all equal, but some are more equal than others”.
    
    Not a useful change, in my opinion.
    
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    September 14, 2024 12:31pm
slightlyrighty

So Marjorie Taylor-Greene has made a statement explaining her concern at Laura Loomer advising Trump and being part of his campaigns inner circle.

If MTG is the Adult in the room, then this campaign is falling off the rails in ways we haven’t seen yet.
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September 14, 2024 8:07am
- Mike
  
  Gotta beware of those Jewish space lasers!
  
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  September 14, 2024 11:59am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    And global boiling.
    
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    September 14, 2024 2:39pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Loads of Asians arriving, loads of New Zealanders leaving.

What reports like this don’t examine is how many of those New Zealanders leaving are new New Zealanders. In particular, how many come here, get the passport & promptly head off for Aus.

That’s important, because in effect it’s by-passing Australian immigration policy. If you think Australia is anal about its 501s, you can be sure that a few negative headlines there will stir up public demand for our privileged access to be revoked.

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/indonz/527923/asian-migrants-leading-new-zealand-s-population-growth
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September 14, 2024 8:10am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I see they say most are young, so plenty will be greenies, they won’t vote so that’s good.
  
  When Key came in it took virtually the whole first term to steam the flow of people leaving, and nearly two terms before we became positive with needs returning. Lower inflation, lower interest rates have started, this will help with people’s confidence which in polls has shown a sharp lift in the last month, you can’t turn a container ship on a dime you known😊
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:50am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I don’t know whether there is good data, but I doubt it is many. Most of the folk leaving are fed up nurses, police officers, and plumbers, and other New Zealand citizens who want a change. In their 20s and 30s off to make better lives. That is the problem. They are fed up with the results of Jacinda wrecking the economy. But also the incessant wailing about the Treaty and being forced fed a language and world view that they have no interest in.
  
  If a few migrants patiently wait the four or five years to get citizenship and then head to Australia, so what? Do you have any evidence that the Australians are concerned?
  
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  September 14, 2024 11:07am
NeverMindTheBollocks

My initial reaction was ‘I’ve only been here five minutes, so why do I deserve this award?”

Hans’s right to be modest. At 22, she has no earth shaking policy accomplishments behind her. And why would she?

The award is conferred, not applied for, so no blame attaches to her. But it does raise the suspicion that younger/ browner/ non male are the selection criteria. David Seymour is 41 so misses the 35 yo cut-off, but I don’t recall him being in the conversation before 2018.

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/527930/hana-rawhiti-maipi-clarke-wins-young-world-politician-of-the-year-award
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September 14, 2024 8:23am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Just look who won the award last time, won solely because it was the first Māori to win the northern mayoralty.
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:52am
- Damocles11
  
  Maybe I too can start up a charitable organisation and hand out meaningless awards. I’ll hand them out to promising young leaders on the right, while ‘One Young World’ can keep handing theirs out to ‘Progressives’.
  
  ‘Each year One Young World Summit convenes the brightest young talent from every country and sector, working to accelerate social impact. The most talented young leaders from 190+ countries are counselled by influential political, business, and humanitarian leaders such as Justin Trudeau, Paul Polman and Meghan Markle, amongst many other global figures.’
  
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  September 14, 2024 10:19am
  - AitchW
    
    Ooooooooh imagine being counselled by Meghan Markle. She might learn how to bag a prince!
    
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    September 14, 2024 1:19pm
    - Ghost
      
      What would be worse, Me Gain or her twin Ardern…
      
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      September 14, 2024 1:30pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        We’re in clown world now. Buckle up.
        
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        September 14, 2024 5:15pm
  - Ghost
    
    God only know why Me Gain is on that list.
    
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    September 14, 2024 1:23pm
Chuck Bird

This crap is paywalled. The Herald says tranies rights trump fairness and safety.

Editorial: How transgender rights could become a political football

Whoever wins the election, transgender kids who miss out on playing sport would be the losers.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/editorial-how-transgender-rights-could-become-a-political-football/ML6FQINGAVBKHEUV5HSBE3OXRE/
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September 14, 2024 8:35am
- sherp
  
  Nobody is stopping a man in a dress playing sport with his own sex.
  
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  September 14, 2024 8:45am
- Swifty
  
  What rights do I have that transgenders don’t have?
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:28am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    The question is what rights do transgenders have that you do not have. They are trying to get the right to invade women’s spaces and play sports against women.
    
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    September 14, 2024 9:55am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  You know, I have never ever heard Trump mention trans people, the dems suggest their rights (above other citizens) will be abolished
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:53am
- Chuck Bird
  
  I find it sad that National cannot say that a man playing sport against a woman is not fair. Do they have a position on men who claim to be women using women’s changing rooms?
  
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  September 14, 2024 11:24am
  - Ghost
    
    So you are asking for the government to get involved with the different sporting bodies and tell them who should be involved in those sports? Because that will mean you are asking/wanting the labour greens government when they get in to get involved with the sporting bodies to force them to allow trans into their sports
    
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    September 14, 2024 12:13pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They have not ruled that will happen, their point at present is to let each sport decide, remembering of course this is global leaders of the sports, not the national leaders of the sport
    
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    September 14, 2024 12:19pm
Yvette

Maori ‘health’
As an example, the new approach means the public sector can’t simply assume Māori have shorter life expectancy because they are Māori, as Jacinda Ardern once infamously said. Instead, they must drill into the data and ask, is this related to living rurally, is it to do with poor housing, or other known factors? This kind of analysis not only avoids racial profiling, it allows practical insight into how health problems can be solved. – David Seymour
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/david-seymour-need-not-race-circular-honours-universal-human-rights

Kiri Allan has revealed she has just a 13 percent chance of surviving cervical cancer
The Labour MP was diagnosed with stage 3 cervical cancer in April. She has since used her diagnosis to raise awareness about the importance of regular pap smears and the inequality in New Zealand’s health care which means Māori women are three times more likely to die from cervical cancer.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/kiri-allan-reveals-she-has-13-pct-chance-of-surviving-cervical-cancer.html.

Is “inequality in New Zealand’s health care”, or “shorter life expectancy because a person is Māori”, a physiological or psychological predilection?

And in mixed heritage, how much removal from Maori descent changes any disadvantage from any inherited physiological predisposition?
That may have been a better field of research than –

The new Māori Health Authority has a budget of half a billion dollars and CEO Riana Manuel has allocated $100 million of that to support centuries-old treatments.
“Connecting people back to those spaces and places that have been long forgotten is certainly something that will be investing in,” Manuel said.
Just like they do with Matariki, Māori use maramataka as a way of reading the cosmos to prepare for what’s coming.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/07/how-maori-use-maramataka-to-care-for-mental-health-issues-and-how-the-practice-will-be-incorporated-into-treatment-by-maori-health-authority.html.
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September 14, 2024 8:43am
- nova
  
  Kiri was told that her 5 year survival rate was estimated at 40%. Apparently ignoring the fact that this figure was already individualised, she decided that as a Maori wahine that she was three times more likely to die, and divided that number by 3 to get 13%. But this is the wrong calculation, if she really believed that, what she should have done is multiplied her chance of dying by 3, which in her case is 60%, and 60% times 3 = 180%. Or perhaps not.
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:39am
- Swifty
  
  Wrong, wrong, wrong.
  
  (Not you Yvette)
  
  Kiri Allan, inadvertently I’m sure, completely blew this argument out of the water with her comments at the time. She was fairly widely reported at the time as saying that throughout her life she has avoided matters ‘down there’ and not presented herself for routine examinations as strongly recommended by our health system. She then went on to reinforce the point that it was vital that people don’t repeat her mistakes and go for their checkups when requested or recommend.
  
  Her low chances of recovery, as a result of catching her cancer late, were not a function of her being Maori at all, it was the direct consequence of not taking her health seriously and putting aside the time and attention to keep on top of it.
  
  To say her situation is the consequence of a racist health system is a complete fabrication and without any evidence. To the contrary, it is a perfect example of what can happen when personal or cultural issues prevent people from doing what’s necessary to maintain their own health.
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:41am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Speaking of Allan, article yesterday say that Allan was fully over the limit with her first drink driving test
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:55am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Not widely reported…
    
    Our then Min of Justice sure knew how to delay, delay, delay the evidential test.
    
    https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/350411318/kiritapu-allan-blew-over-criminal-drink-drive-limit-first-breath-test
    
    Just another deceitful drunk.
    
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    September 14, 2024 10:55am
    - Colville
      
      So she blew over the limit…walked away so they couldnt find her…phoned a lawyer for advice so she knew how long she could delay and stayed hidden till her blood alcohol level had dropped sufficiently ….
      
      I wonder if I could get away with doing that??
      
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      September 14, 2024 11:55am
      - Sir Henry Morgan
        
        It’s worse than that.
        
        She flees the scene to delay any preliminary breath test. Police eventually find her, give a preliminary test and find her over the limit (not clear by how much). She then refuses to accompany police and has to be arrested.
        
        For whatever reason police then allow two hours to pass before giving an evidential test. So after a cup of tea and a snooze the Minister of Justice tests under the limit and everyone heaves a sigh of relief that justice has been seen to be done.
        
        Wonder if a kindly soul slipped her an extra breath testing kit to help remove any uncertainty about the results of her evidential test? I’m guessing the mass siesta at Wellington Central Police Station would have continued for as long as it took.
        
        Amazingly, she claimed her refusal to accompany police was motivated by a burning curiosity to test some obscure point of law.
        
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        September 14, 2024 7:24pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Yes, that’s the article.
      
      Sorry for not putting links up, my work phone makes it awkward to source links, sometimes they are simple, sometimes they can’t be sourced
      
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      September 14, 2024 12:21pm
- pdm
  
  `Kiri Allan has revealed she has just a 13 percent chance of surviving cervical cancer.’
  
  Our 51 year old daughter, without a skerrick of Maori Blood, has the same chance. What is more she takes personal responsibility by admitting it is her own fault because she avoided having smear tests.
  
  BTW our daughter is not a 100% drag on the Health System. Apart from 3/4 days in Hospital when first diagnosed she is mainly being treated through her Health Insurance Company.
  
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  September 14, 2024 10:13am
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  Where to start? We are all afraid to be diagnosed with a life threatening illness. Some ignore the possibility to the extent that they indulge in dietary excess, drink alcohol, ignore the benefits of exercise, ignore symptoms. If one chooses this pathway any adverse outcomes are the result of many factors. One’s genetic heritage is one of those factors, as is one’s social heritage. It’s impossible to effectively weight this host of factors in any statistical analysis, but we are constantly harangued that better diet, more exercise etc etc will prevent illness. Heard about the worried well? If your social heritage is poor education, then it’s easy to discount modern understanding of long term health outcomes. David Seymour is absolutely right. We have to drill down to the real problem ands and address them. Not an easy fix, but vital.
  
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  September 14, 2024 10:33am
  - artemisia
    
    ‘Drill down to the real problems and address them.’ And right there is why identifying root causes and addressing them will never happen in this country. Even though it is blindingly obvious to anyone with a smidgen of a brain.
    
    Why? All that taxpayer funding diverted to fixing actual problems? Can’t have that. David Seymour has the right idea but a not enough of his colleagues agree, and the bleating for more money is already deafening.
    
    Here’s idea, every request for OPM has to be accompanied by a formal root cause analysis and a business case that addresses it.
    
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    September 14, 2024 12:29pm
    - pdm
      
      `Here’s idea, every request for OPM has to be accompanied by a formal root cause analysis and a business case that addresses it.
      
      Arty my understanding is that The Ministry of Regulation is now doing exactly that. Minister in Charge is David Seymour.
      
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      September 14, 2024 12:56pm
- rouppe
  
  Yvette…
  
  Kiri Allan has revealed she has just a 13 percent chance of surviving cervical cancer
  The Labour MP was diagnosed with stage 3 cervical cancer in April. She has since used her diagnosis to raise awareness about the importance of regular pap smears and the inequality in New Zealand’s health care which means Māori women are three times more likely to die from cervical cancer.
  
  Read from this that she didn’t have regular pap smears, despite them being as available to her as anyone else.
  
  It’s more likely that Māori women are three times more likely to die from cervical cancer because they don’t do the regular screening which would find it earlier, rather than simply being Maori.
  
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  September 14, 2024 12:38pm
Cassandra

UK Times this morning: coconut is a term of racial abuse in the UK but not, as here, re Pacific Islanders. It actually means brown on the outside and white inside. Like Uncle Tom. A court has found a protester not guilty after she pictured Suella Braverman under a coconut tree, judge said it was satire. I agree. But I’d like that approach applied widely. Sticks and stones etc.
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September 14, 2024 8:47am
- Yvette
  
  NZ On Air’s Watch & Listen: New – The Forgotten Pacific
  Presented by Pacific climate leader Suluafi Brianna Fruean, The Forgotten Pacific travels to five Pacific islands to discover how communities are weaving indigenous knowledge into the modern-day fight to adapt, rebuild and save their islands from climate change. A Coconet TV original feature documentary dropping 22 September on The Coconet TV.
  Watch the trailer on The Coconet TV
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:02am
sherp

https://youtu.be/TeLHleHYLIk?si=bJS0reDRT5TrP7kz
This woman in Canton, Ohio was caught eating a cat just weeks before the ‘cat eating story’ blew up in Springfield, Ohio.
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September 14, 2024 8:48am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  I haven’t seen the video, but was the woman:
  a) eating the cat as a meal
  b) eating (parts) of the cat as part of a religious (voodoo?) practice?
  
  If b), then her religious beliefs may be granted legal protection…
  
  Food for thought!
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:40am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    When I calculate the price I’m paying to feed my moggies, I begin to wonder how tasty they would be as a fricassee.
    
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    September 14, 2024 10:59am
- slightlyrighty
  
  2 things.
  
  1. This seems to be a mental health issue.
  
  2. The woman, Alexis Ferrell, is a US Citizen, not an immigrant.
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:43am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Media articles have clearly stated pets are going missing, one wild guess why
  
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  September 14, 2024 12:22pm
Bridgenag

Never Forget What They Did: A Look Back at COVID Tyranny
Here’s a look back at what they did to the noncompliant in the name of “health.”

“Precisely three years ago, Joe Biden officially declared you (the unvaccinated) an enemy of the state. “We’ve been patient, but our patience is wearing thin, and your refusal has cost all of us,” he said after announcing sweeping “vaccine” mandates.”
“What ensued after Biden’s speech was one of the most hate-filled propaganda campaigns in human history.”

https://vigilantfox.news/p/never-forget-what-they-did-a-look?r=4av704&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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September 14, 2024 8:59am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  There are some interesting comments in that link.
  Anyway:
  Two tiered society in NZ.
  Jacinda Ardern: *With a grin* “That is what it is. So, yep. Yep.”
  She should be in jail.
  During the lockdowns we all parked our cars in different streets around the corner and walked to work. Everyone had a key to the gate and locked it behind them. Manufacturing continued as normal. Time clock was not used. You just can not have a person like Ardern crippling businesses. You have to be a bit more devious and evil to have stopped me, Ardern.
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:53am
  - rouppe
    
    You might have been a bit lucky.
    
    Ardern also fostered a dobbing in culture. A neighbour may have called in that something was going on.
    
    Or one of the employees who was on board might have dobbed you in.
    
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    September 14, 2024 12:44pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Small Company. Two manager/directors/owners, and six workers.
      Guys were given the opt out if they wanted it.
      No dobbing in. Even my neighbours would never have done that – not arseholes!
      
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      September 14, 2024 1:43pm
Bridgenag

This one a bit of fun….What will happen if Kamala gets in
https://x.com/TyTheFisch/status/1828174928413368622
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September 14, 2024 9:05am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Maybe it is not fun. Is it worth the chance of Americans voting her in?
  “Vote for me so I can then tell you what my Policies are” or something.
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:57am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    As opposed to this fool?
    
    So tonight, nine years after you first started running,” Davis said, “do you have a plan, and can you tell us what it is?”
    
    “I have concepts of a plan,” Trump replied.
    
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    September 14, 2024 10:42am
    - Mike
      
      So many concepts, more than have ever been seen in history.
      
      5 9
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      September 14, 2024 12:02pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Kamala has copied enough of Trump’s Policies. Do you think he would ever tell them to an airbrain? Obama would have been right into it!
      
      5 7
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      September 14, 2024 1:44pm
      - Hard Cheese
        
        I don’t suppose he thought the 67.1 million people watching might want to know?
        
        4 5
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        September 14, 2024 2:07pm
  - Paulus
    
    My policies are anything to do with my opposite number.
    Vote for me the I will tell you so – remember that sounds just like Dame Jacinda.
    
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    September 14, 2024 11:52am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      You got two downtickers – just for saying the truth. Probably the resident trolls.
      
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      September 14, 2024 1:45pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Teacher eating pupils’ lunches.

Yesterday on Checkpoint RNZ the reporter said there was no evidence to back up David Seymour’s claim that teachers had consumed lunches prepared for the pupils.

Such a pity that the reporter hadn’t read yesterday’s NZ Herald of this issue… where the Principal of Tuakau College admitted that while teachers were able to have the lunches if there were leftovers, there had been times staff would get in first.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/ministry-of-education-david-seymour-on-claims-school-staff-took-students-free-lunches/U7RHJX5S2FABBORELOC3ZDI5K4/
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September 14, 2024 9:15am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Yet several people ringing in to talk back when I was on my journey home saying that it definitely are, one woman said her husband was a head master and he does not take lunch, he just eats the free stuff, bloody ridiculous
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:59am
  - MCōs
    
    Did he deprive some kid(s) of a meal or eat leftovers?
    Hard to believe there are no leftovers
    I used to go to boarding school and some days the food was hardly touched
    Having said that the resident priests certainly ate better quality swill than we did!
    
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    September 14, 2024 11:47am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Not the point, waste is to be lowered, it should be theft to take a lunch, just like it is theft to take items home from work
      
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      September 14, 2024 12:24pm
    - rouppe
      
      Completely not the point.
      
      A responsible principal, on noticing uneaten lunches would tell the supplier to deliver fewer lunches, not just scoff them themselves.
      
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      September 14, 2024 12:49pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Besides what the principal said, he might have enjoyed the lunch as well. Why? Because it is “free!”
        
        7 1
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        September 14, 2024 1:47pm
    - Ghost
      
      Plenty of left overs at the college here. They put up notices on Facebook to anyone who wants them. The teachers take them if they are any good. But mostly one of the locals takes them for his pigs.
      
      5 0
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      September 14, 2024 12:59pm
      - AitchW
        
        There was someone on twitter recently posting photos of the school lunches delivered to their local school. They looked like pigswill, very unappetising. I suspect a local pig farm did well out of them!
        
        5 0
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        September 14, 2024 1:35pm
    - AitchW
      
      I too went to boarding school, in the 70s. There were rarely leftovers, even though the food was pretty ordinary we were bloody hungry!
      The upside of that experience was that when I joined the Territorials and did my basic training in Waiouru, the food there was miles better and more plentiful than at school. Many of my platoon mates who had never been away from home turned their noses up at the food put in front of us, I loved it!
      
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      September 14, 2024 1:26pm
    - Manu-Rau
      
      It doesn’t. The lunch is provided for kids, not teachers. If food is regularly left over, the school should reduce the order.
      
      Teachers have a job, for which they are well paid. There is absolutely no requirement or need for them to eat taxpayer funded food while so many taxpayers – who are paying for that food – are doing it tough. Thieving shits.
      
      I’m surprised David Seymour hasn’t picked this up. He needs to come out and state that the practice must stop immediately, or the cost of feeding teachers (let’s say $15 per day, plus FBT) will be deemed part of the salary of every teacher who works in one of these schools, and that their fortnightly pay will be reduced according.
      
      Thieving shits.
      
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      September 15, 2024 12:54am
Pineapple Lumps

Am I a Racist?

Matt Walsh brought us the movie “What is a Woman?”, just released his latest movie in the US yesterday – Am I a Racist?.

Trailer here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_nS9VWcxfMY

Not sure when we will see it at our cinemas here in NZ, but definitely some comedy in a conservative white man going undercover as a DEI consultant and exposing many of the grifters and narcissists involved in the white privilege, white guilt industry in the US.
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September 14, 2024 9:29am
- slightlyrighty
  
  Shades of Stephen Crowder and is hijacking of the Fat Studies symposium in NZ.
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:45am
- MCōs
  
  I’d be extremely surprised if that movie pops up on general release in New Zealand..
  Apart from anything else the content has little to do with us.
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:56am
  - Swifty
    
    The content has everything to do with us.
    
    This identity politics/white oppressor cancer has had its incubation in the States and has now spread to the other Western democracies.
    
    We would be fools to ignore developments and trends in the US.
    
    Where they go, we go.
    
    9 1
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    September 14, 2024 10:17am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    That might be your experience MCos, but unfortunately young white men in NZ today face increasing discrimination in the name of equity. We have had first hand experience of a young man, who placed Nationally in his area of expertise but was rejected from Regional youth representation because of … equity. No mention of what this actually was in the selection criteria. But nevertheless a very talented young man is road blocked from opportunities to develop and network in their area of expertise. Ultimately this will downgrade that area of expertise and all NZers will be poorer for it.
    
    About 1/2 the places in medical schools in NZ are pre-allocated to Māori and Pacifica people. Equity in action. The school student leadership positions are being appointed to show DEI. Many scholarships for further studies are prejudiced on race. Funding in the creative industries and television are prejudiced on race. We have poets being awarded for wanting to stab Captain Cook. No doubt our fellow bloggers can add to this list.
    
    You may have grown up in privileged times where DEI didn’t exist but that is not the environment our young, white men are growing up in today.
    
    The ideology all of this racism is founded on is the victim and oppressor narrative. White men sit at the top of the oppressor pile so are therefore the ones who should be discriminated against the most. So now the victim is the oppressor but validated to do so as they have the weight of their invented morality to support them.
    
    Where do you stand on this racism that our young men are being subjected to MCos?
    
    13 1
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    September 14, 2024 11:53am
    - rouppe
      
      It is happening now.
      
      A mandatory course in first year engineering at Canterbury University required student to understand the “power wheel”.
      
      No, not a wheel which turned an engine, but a wheel which set out to say that if you were white you had more power, if you were male you had more power, if you were heterosexual you had more power.
      
      Does Rawiri Waititi have more power over others, or do I?
      Does Jacinda Ardern have more power over others, or do I?
      Does Chloe Swarbrick have more power over others, or do I?
      
      It’s rancid that this filth is taught at university.
      
      12 1
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      September 14, 2024 12:58pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  The funny thing is Matt’s movies are hilarious and hugely entertaining (to normal people) blockbusters.
  
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  September 14, 2024 5:25pm
Ghost

Another political figure

Former National Party minister and America’s Cup campaign director Anthony “Aussie” Malcolm was the subject of multiple complaints of historical child sexual abuse and was under police investigation at the time of his death, Stuff can reveal.

Article
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September 14, 2024 9:35am
- CJames
  
  Being under investigation means just that. It has yet to be established whether the claims had credibility or whether evidence supported them. He may well have been a pedophile, but that is not a certainty.
  Remember all the accusations about Ted Heath and a ring of child molesters in Whitehall? Probably not as the media went very quiet after it was found out the accuser made them up and had dodgy dealings of his own. Collateral damage were a few old men had their reputations destroyed and were hounded to their graves. But they were just Tories and we must believe all victims. Yeah Right.
  
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  September 14, 2024 9:56am
imalwaysright

A short article on
Mpox case linked to pride festival:
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/mpox-case-linked-queenstowns-winter-pride-festival

What will happen when potentially infected people return home?
Will we see widespread infections?
Its hard to see why there wouldn’t be.
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September 14, 2024 9:39am
Ghost

On Friday Russia’s ambassador to the United Nations, Vassily Nebenzia, informed the UN Security council that NATO countries would “start an open war” in allowing Western long-range missiles to target Russia.

“If such a decision is made, that means NATO countries are starting an open war against Russia,” Moscow’s envoy introduced. “In that case, we will obviously be forced to make certain decisions, with all the attendant consequences for Western aggressors.”

Article
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September 14, 2024 9:44am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Yes that is a worry, just another reason why Harris must not steal a win.
  
  Good too see polls suggest Trump is now two points in front and that is after the debate
  
  13 8
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  September 14, 2024 10:02am
  - Paulus
    
    Putin would love to see Kamela win as that would suit him in many respects, as ashe can become a pariah in the eys of the Putin backed world such as Iran and North Korea friends of Putin, and the Muslim world, who believe a women should only be for …………
    
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    September 14, 2024 11:56am
  - Mike
    
    It’s bigly obvious that Trump alone can fix that war, by forcing Ukraine to surrender. Then, once Putin tells him to abandon NATO, Poland and the Baltic states can look forward to reincorporation in Russia’s rightful sphere of influence. Then it’ll be time for ‘peaceful’ reunification of Korea and China.
    
    5 16
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    September 14, 2024 12:10pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      You put pressure on both sides, not just one, it is surprising what can happen
      
      5 5
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      September 14, 2024 12:26pm
      - Its only I
        
        Trump said he could end the war with one phone call….he said…often.
        
        Why no do it now you prick? The election would be over.
        
        He wont of course because is puckered arsehole is directly under his nose and we know what comes out of those.
        
        6 13
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        September 14, 2024 1:23pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Filled with hatred much IOI?
        
        3 3
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        September 14, 2024 2:47pm
      - Its only I
        
        Not at all NZ in Ex
        
        Its a comedy show.
        
        Anyway its a line JD Vance used around the time he was calling Trump Americas Hitler in his never trump “guy” days…then as we all know he started motorboating is way in to kiss the royal ring. and was rewarded.
        Second hand McDonald’s breath is a rough path to power, his grandmother would not approve by all accounts.
        
        2 2
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        September 14, 2024 5:30pm
- Grunter
  
  Yep, the big meeting in The White House is happening as we speak. Starmer, Trudeau and Zelensky have all said they want to fire off long range missiles into Russia. They all admit that this action is NOT a ‘game changer’ but they want to do it anyway (I wonder why that would be….)
  
  The decision to start WW3 is now down to one very demented 81 yr old and his warmongering mates. Imagine if someone was firing missiles into the US instead.
  
  The nuclear umbrella had one job – deterrence of war. That now looks like it is about to be proven a falsehood.
  
  The Deep State and that includes the Dems need to start WW3 before Trump gets in.
  
  We live in a very dangerous time.
  
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  September 14, 2024 11:38am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Thank hid the pentagon holds the strings then
    
    2 6
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    September 14, 2024 12:28pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I would not trust the Pentagon as far as I could kick them. Gen Miley? Please!
      
      5 4
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      September 14, 2024 1:52pm
  - Cassandra
    
    Indeed we do which is why someone has to stop Putin, who is firing long range weapons into Ukraine with impunity. I note that the “demented 81 year old” has declined PM Starmer’s request. I also note that Vance says that Trump’s solution is to give Putin a third of Ukraine. I’d give Putin a large dollop of Semtex.
    
    8 3
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    September 14, 2024 12:32pm
    - Taieri
      
      I’d give Putin a large dollop of Semtex
      ———
      
      The problem is that Putin holds all the trump cards (pun not intended) and short of starting WW3 nobody is going to be able to stop him. The time to negotiate is long overdue. Better to lose one third of Ukraine (which Ukraine no longer controls anyway) than to lose all young and not so young Ukrainians. The territory can be recovered, the lives are gone forever.
      
      7 4
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      September 14, 2024 1:38pm
      - Hard Cheese
        
        Naive comment of the year. What makes you think Putin will just stop at the currently occupied territories? As soon as he can rebuild he’ll continue on to the rest of Ukraine, his tiny mind still thinks it’s part of Russia.
        
        3 5
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        September 14, 2024 2:24pm
      - MCōs
        
        I can see it now
        Trump coming back from Moscow waving a piece of paper and proclaiming ‘peace in our time’
        
        4 5
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        September 14, 2024 2:30pm
      - Taieri
        
        Naive comment of the year.
        ———–
        
        I’m sure that the Ukrainian mothers, who lost their sons and wives, who lost their husbands agree with the above pronouncement from an armchair expert with such an insight into Putin’s tiny mind.
        
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        September 14, 2024 3:28pm
    - Handyman
      
      My prediction remains on track.
      Give an ultimatum to both sides.
      Create a Korean style cease fire agreement.
      An “international” peace keeping force occupies Ukraine and moves up to the Russian border.
      The NATO troops will protect the American and EU workers rebuilding Ukraine.
      
      Years later… Ukraine joins NATO.
      Ukraine ruled by Russian style oligarchs.
      Russia conducts covert operations to destabilase Ukraine.
      
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      September 14, 2024 4:29pm
Swifty

And women reckon we only think about sex:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/Wu247KR5zHdcyxBN/?mibextid=UalRPS
6 2
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September 14, 2024 9:48am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  We do when we’re not playing important games.
  
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  September 14, 2024 1:54pm
Yvette

Maori Health
How much does having one parent Maori and the other a non-Maori, increase your life expectancy – especially if the non-Maori parent is Asian, who have greater life expectancy than “European” New Zealanders, who have theoretically only a 7 year advantage in the usual racial comparison, when Asians have 7 years more ahead for them than “Europeans”?

Less than $100 million research, for centuries-old treatments, may have helped answer that – if anyone had asked that obvious question
7 1
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September 14, 2024 9:54am
- Paulus
  
  How many solo parents getting some sort of welfare are there currently?
  
  6 2
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  September 14, 2024 11:57am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Meredith Grey, Olivia Benson, and Benjamin Button — were heavily swayed by Trump’s pledge to protect pets and other small animals from being abducted, killed, and eaten by bands of marauding Haitian migrants.

https://babylonbee.com/news/taylor-swifts-cats-endorse-trump?
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September 14, 2024 11:12am
Swifty

This award is empty. Meaningless. It carries no mana and actually reduces her mana if she accepts it:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/527930/hana-rawhiti-maipi-clarke-wins-young-world-politician-of-the-year-award

It’s a prize for participation not a prize for achievement, no matter their flowery language.

Christopher Hitchens once said of Obama’s Nobel Peace Prize award, given to him right at the start of his Presidency – “It would be like giving someone an Oscar in the hope that it would encourage them to make a decent motion picture.”

The young woman should decline it.
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September 14, 2024 11:22am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Think like a young person. Of course she will accept it.
  Those who say she shouldn’t are racist.//
  
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  September 14, 2024 2:04pm
- Dougal10
  
  She probably applied to be in the running , that is how most of these things actually work.
  
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  September 14, 2024 5:02pm
- quarterpack
  
  Hitchens was a great man
  
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  September 14, 2024 6:19pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Oh no! The pre-filled Ballots.
Democrats want them as safe and secure as the Moderna vaccines.

https://babylonbee.com/news/democrats-concerned-california-wildfires-may-burn-up-their-stock-of-prefilled-kamala-harris-ballots?
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September 14, 2024 11:29am
Pineapple Lumps

I was reading a book on distillation last week where the author observed that while the Chinese made alcohol including spirits, they had not relied on them for hygienic drinking water like other cultures due to the tea drinking culture where water was sterilised by boiling. Drinking beer for breakfast lunch and dinner was still being done in Europe until relatively recently. Engineering of sanitary water supply and removal of sewerage coupled with the move to drinking tea and coffee in the west have resulted in a move away from perpetual alcohol consumption.

While I enjoy a drink, it got me thinking about the impacts of centuries of fetal alcohol syndrome, and consumption of a depressant versus centuries hydrated by a caffeinated substance.

I am interested in others thoughts on the matter.
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September 14, 2024 12:07pm
- Mike
  
  How you get a rude and a reckless?
  Don’t you be so crude and feckless
  You been drinking brew for breakfast
  Rudie can’t fail (no, no)
  – The Clash
  Apart from that, the old adage is ‘the dose makes the poison’. I’m not sure the alcohol content of small beer or caffeine in tea would have observable generational effects. Interesting question.
  
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  September 14, 2024 12:16pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    I didn’t realise the beer was mainly low alcohol. Thanks for your thoughts – they didn’t warrant all the down ticks.
    
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    September 14, 2024 9:25pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Royal Navy issued about a gallon of “small beer” per day as part of the Grog Ration.
  
  Pint of Rum + Small Beer. This however was about 1% alcohol but had been through the brewing process so was “clean”. Water kept in cask was FOUL!!!
  
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  September 14, 2024 12:23pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    I didn’t realise the beer was that weak – although my friends German grandmother had “heavy” beer for lunch. I thought I read the original rum ration was 1/2 pint but 160 proof (80% ABV) – did they change that to a pint of a 40% ABV?
    
    2 0
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    September 14, 2024 3:50pm
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      The worst thing you could do to a RN seaman in Nelson’s day was “stop his tap”. They would have alcohol withdrawal.
      
      Admiral Vernon wore a cloak made of Grogram and he was known in the Navy as “Old Grog”.
      
      It was he who reduced the ration and watered it down for the ratings, PO’s and Warrant Officers had it neat.
      
      RN stopped the Rum Ration in 1971. With the rum ration and maybe a beer at lunch they were over the legal limit for driving!!!! RNZN didn’t stop until the 90’s.
      
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      September 14, 2024 5:20pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  I’m thinking that Euro “everyday” beer was quite low alcohol content.
  
  Foot note: I just noticed FTM beat me to it.
  
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  September 14, 2024 2:44pm
- David Garrett
  
  Engineering of sanitary water supply and removal of sewerage…
  
  I think you mean removal of sewage old boy…sewerage is the pipework the number ones and twos travel in to their ultimate destination…back in the day usually the ocean, nowadays a treatment plant.
  
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  September 14, 2024 2:58pm
- Dougal10
  
  Wasn’t most of the ” beer ” being consumed actually from the first part of the process which is more about purification than alcohol .
  
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  September 14, 2024 5:06pm
Conservatarian

Haitians eat cats.
20,000 Haitians have illegally invaded Springfield, Ohio.
Springfield has normal soil upon which Haitians act like Haitians. Springfield does not have “magic soil” that stops Haitians acting like Haitians.
Ergo, Haitians are eating cats in Springfield.

This is the way.
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September 14, 2024 3:00pm
- greybeard
  
  Everyone knows that the Chinese eat cats, dogs, rats, snakes, anything with a pulse.
  
  It wasn’t so long ago that the English and French legally ate horse-meat: maybe they still do.
  The French eat snails and frogs as a matter of course.
  New Zealanders eat huhu grubs, raw oysters and occasionally bulls’ testicles .
  God knows what they eat in some African countries !
  Why therefore is there doubt that recent arrivals in the USA from Haiti do NOT eat local waterfowl and pets of various types ?
  
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  September 14, 2024 3:41pm
  - kevn
    
    greybeard… More than just chowing down. From the source.
    https://x.com/WallStreetApes/status/1833981036289753558
    
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    September 14, 2024 4:11pm
- MCōs
  
  The Haitians are legal, relatively well paid workers who depending who you listen to have revitalized the area
  Cats are not a staple food of Haitians
  
  3 5
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  September 14, 2024 6:00pm
  - marcw
    
    You mean like John Legend – he who lives in a gated multi-million dollar mansion in Los Angeles. Is he one of those you say “[Haitians] have revitalized Springfield, Ohio?”
    
    3 3
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    September 14, 2024 7:39pm
  - Manu-Rau
    
    ‘…depending on you listen to…..’
    
    You mean like the stinking, corrupt, lying Democrat media?
    
    1 1
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    September 15, 2024 1:00am
- Sir Henry Morgan
  
  When visiting Haiti I never noticed anyone eating cats. No to say it doesn’t happen, but I doubt it’s common.
  
  In China I have seen specialist cat restaurants. Not recently though, and limited to smaller towns in specific parts of Guangdong.
  
  Dog restaurants used to be common across China. There were dog farms and you’d occasionally see a truck load of dogs presumably going to the abattoir. Guess a few restaurants still exist but very rare and apparently some now source meat from gangs of dog kidnappers.
  
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  September 14, 2024 7:56pm
Grumpy Silver Top

An interesting question. The custom of making fluids safe for drinking via fermentation to produce alcohol created a society where beverages containing alcohol became endemic. Our society can now supply safe drinking fluids/water by other means but the drug, ie alcohol, has embedded itself in our social interactions to the detriment of many.
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September 14, 2024 3:16pm
Steve Todd

Jeffrey Goldberg (The Atlantic) joins Tim Miller (The Bulwark) for Miller’s weekend podcast.

The topic? Everything Trump, with some JD Vance thrown in.

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Vhu2EV0aI. [48:34].

The splurge says—

“The former president doesn’t think our country is exceptional, and the political press won’t hold him to any standard because it has zero expectations of him. Plus, Lindsey Graham is an empty shell, John Kelly was nearly driven mad working for Trump, and JD Vance can’t stop spinning conspiracies.”

Mention is made of Trump’s diminished speech abilities. The Atlantic piece (September 13) on that subject is here: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2024/09/trump-harris-debate-cognitive-decline/679803/.

Four years from now, Trump could be, cognitively, where Biden is today. If Biden is not now fit to be president, as many Kiwiblog commenters would aver, then it is possible that, well before his second (and final) term is finished, Trump might also be in the same position. Will Americans take that risk? One can only hope not.

A very interesting discussion.
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September 14, 2024 4:57pm
- Dougal10
  
  It is interesting , George Bush is about the same age as Trump as is Clinton , they were presidents a long time ago , Biden didn’t even run for president after his time as VP he was sidelined out of that job. The swamp is getting very old and tired and it does need a refresh, hopefully we see some new people coming in to the senate and congress and governorships .
  
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  September 14, 2024 5:15pm
  - Mike
    
    Biden didn’t want to run in 2016 after his son’s death. He ran in 2020 as the obvious choice to end the Trump shit show, which he did. His mistake was changing his mind and trying to run for a second term.
    
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    September 14, 2024 5:53pm
    - Taieri
      
      He ran in 2020 as the obvious choice
      ———–
      
      What was “obvious” about it?
      
      1 0
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      September 14, 2024 7:32pm
- Manu-Rau
  
  So, a stinking Democrat doesn’t like Trump. Who’d have thought?
  
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  September 15, 2024 1:01am
kevn

Dougal… JD Vance seems a bright spark.
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September 14, 2024 5:36pm
- Mike
  
  When compared with Trump, he’s somewhat lucid.
  
  2 5
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  September 14, 2024 5:55pm
  - Manu-Rau
    
    And extremely lucid compared to drop ’em Karamel and the lying Minnesota National Guardsman.
    
    1 1
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    September 15, 2024 1:04am
kevn

Wasn’t asking you.
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September 14, 2024 6:03pm
- Dougal10
  
  Makes good debate difficult doesn’t it .
  
  1 0
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  September 14, 2024 7:17pm

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