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September 10, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 10 September 2024

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General Debate

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NeverMindTheBollocks

NZTA is proposing to toll the Manawatu Gorge replacement road and the Otaki-Levin motorway. Locals are not happy, as you can imagine.

The principal problem is the lack of fairness. The Hamilton Expressway is not tolled; neither are the Transmission Gully, Canterbury motorway or the Auckland Harbour Bridge. Yet Tararua locals pay taxes for those roads.

Either all of these roads should be tolled, or none.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350399907/proposal-toll-highway-raises-hackles-local-residents
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September 10, 2024 8:01am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I think it is done deal. Yes it would be nice to have no tolls. However as the last government ruined the country, it is either tolls or no modern roads or increased petrol taxes for everyone. It is fairer that folk who use the new roads pay for them.
  
  No it is not ideal. However a critical mass of new roads is essential before the next communist government forces us all back to the metaphorical rice paddies. 🙂
  
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  September 10, 2024 9:49am
  - alphabeatrium
    
    I live in the area and am directly affected. I do support tolling. However while this highway has been under construction, NZTA has taken on maintenance for the alternative routes (Saddle Rd between Woodville and Ashurst; Pahiatua Track between Palmerston North and Pahiatua). When the road opens they’ll be back under the remit of the Tararua District Council, which has a low ratepayer base. The toll on the highway will incentivise additional traffic on these alternative routes, but the money from the toll is ringfenced to support the highway, and not the alternative roads. There is an unintended consequence there.
    
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    September 10, 2024 10:58am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    It’s the same pot of money, Benedict. Let’s have a campaign to toll the Waterview Tunnel, because assuredly, that’s not paid for yet. Ditto Transmission Gully and the Hamilton Expressway. Because it seems unfair to me that users of the Puhoi Tunnel & part of the Tauranga Expressway have to fork out but users of Waterview etc don’t.
    
    I mean, what’s the difference?
    
    Put another way, will I get a discount on my RUCs, since they’re supposed to pay for road usage? Isn’t this double dipping?
    
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    September 10, 2024 12:36pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I don’t know what you mean by double dipping.
      
      The choices are higher petrol excise and road user charges, OR tolls OR a much more modest road building program than what is required.
      
      IMO tolls are fairer.
      
      There is no option where we have lots of new high quality roads with the existing revenue base.
      
      As it is, the government has already announced progressive increases in petrol excise from ?2026 as well as tolls. That is the world we are in. At least the government has rolled back the worst excesses of funding cycleways etc.
      
      Whatever is done will be “unfair” to some people. However credit where it is due. This Transport Minister is probably as good as it gets.
      
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      September 10, 2024 1:19pm
      - sherp
        
        Or we could tell cyclist that if they want expensive pointless infrastructure to suit their hobby they can pay for it themselves… just think of the roads NZ would have if those paying to use vesicles on NZ roads had that money ring fenced so it would only go towards providing infrastructure for cars
        
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        September 10, 2024 5:49pm
- MCōs
  
  I’m a fan of tolling motorways, but only if there’s an alternate route. Motorists who don’t want to shell out a few dollars to use the Southern M’way, for example, could creep along the Great South Rd. Or catch the train if it’s convenient.
  The Harbour Bridge used to be tolled until 1984
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:07am
  - gravedodger
    
    Also the Lyttelton road tunnel until collections costs overtook the tolls leading to increasing the tolls as option one.
    I regularly use the new Motorway to enter the Village of the Damned and would happily pay a toll for that option as although the Brougham Street extension from Barrington off ramp to Waltham Rd can be problematical the clear alternatives are not attractive My Medical Center is in Ferrymead and from Selwyn District it is only 30 minutes away. Avoiding a toll would easily double that time.
    
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    September 10, 2024 10:42am
    - sherp
      
      I do love how in Christchurch as you come down from the motorway to Brougham Street there’s a set of lights purely to let cyclist cross and that creates the main congestion on the motorway. Yet just 100 meters or so up the road there is an underpass going under the motorway where cyclist could easily cross the motorway and cause no additional traffic issues, and we wonder why we’re running out of money to build necessary infrastructure with.
      
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      September 10, 2024 5:52pm
  - Paulus
    
    So did the Tauranga Harbour Bridge but the experts got on board.
    
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    September 10, 2024 10:53am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The bridge has been paid for.
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:39am
    - MCōs
      
      The capital cost, maybe, but it costs $8mil annually to maintain. That’s about 13c per vehicle.
      
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      September 10, 2024 1:35pm
- Colville
  
  Toll the road.
  $30Bil of road funding allocated… It has to come from somewhere.
  
  Heaps of people live on the east side of the hill and work on the west. Make them pay.
  
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  September 10, 2024 11:08am
  - Matt Long
    
    It’s curious that roads serving provincial areas are tolled, but metropolitan ones not, why I wonder?
    
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    September 10, 2024 5:09pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  They will find they will save on fuel, but no funds, no road
  
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  September 10, 2024 11:18am
  - PurplePen
    
    No .. better yet, no road and instead a light rail service and a cycle lane.
    
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    September 10, 2024 12:02pm
- sirknz
  
  The Auckland Harbour Bridge was tolled until well after it was paid off.
  
  The northern route out of Auckland is also tolled.
  
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  September 10, 2024 12:44pm
  - Colville
    
    They should have left the toll on it to pay for a second bridge.
    
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    September 10, 2024 2:22pm
    - sirknz
      
      Against the law, once the costs have been covered, they’re not allowed to toll it no more.
      
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      September 10, 2024 3:36pm
      - Colville
        
        Well that has changed or is changing.
        They have said that tolls will continue to accrue to build up funds for further road construction.
        
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        September 10, 2024 5:03pm
- bennerg
  
  Currently there are only 3 tolled roads in New Zealand, 2 of them in Tauranga!
  
  That seems a little unfair. Not that we are tolled, but that elsewhere the roads are “toll free”.
  
  I’m a fan of tolls if it means that we get better roads – and tolling is in reality user pays.
  
  However fairness could be assured using RUCs across all New Zealand.
  
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  September 10, 2024 5:13pm
  - waikatosinger
    
    Tolled roads end up being underutilized and causing congestion elsewhere. Nobody knows how to price them properly. It isn’t a market people.
    
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    September 10, 2024 6:01pm
Matt Long

The fantasies and magical thinking from Auckland transport.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-councillor-calls-for-rethink-on-plan-to-halve-car-use-and-increase-cycling-13-fold-by-2030/URDZYMUBSJCFFPTYDAOQXSNLM4/
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September 10, 2024 8:08am
- Flossie
  
  The expression Cuckooland comes to mind.
  
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  September 10, 2024 8:13am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes exactly. Put the cuckoo back in the clock.
    
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    September 10, 2024 8:48am
- Cassandra
  
  We’ve been staying in an Auckland suburb for 5 weeks now. School right next door. 650 roll. I’ve seen one bike in that whole time – just one – and it was on the footpath. These people are indeed in some sort of fantasy world. Auckland is wet, windy and hilly. A place less suitable for cycling is hard to find. Macchu Pichu perhaps. Auckland is spread over 100 km. Running buses is expensive and inefficient. An intractable problem. The car is here to stay. Get used to it.
  
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  September 10, 2024 8:24am
  - Grunter
    
    Try Dunedin for cycling on the hills in the dark and ice in the middle of winter. And our lot want to spend tens of millions on a cycleway from Mosgiel to Dunedin to ease congestion.
    
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    September 10, 2024 8:43am
    - alex Masterley
      
      I did that when I was a kid. Cycle in Dunedin in winter that is. Once.
      Stuck to walking up and down the hills.
      
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      September 10, 2024 10:36am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I think that project would be through the old Caversham tunnel, that project would be worthy, but only once spending and debt was back under control
      
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      September 10, 2024 11:21am
      - sirknz
        
        once spending and debt was back under control
        ——-
        So never then…
        
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        September 10, 2024 12:46pm
  - ecco
    
    Wellington is less suitable than Auckland for cycling…
    
    They won’t be able to find bus drivers soon to drive the Auckland buses. Far too dangerous now with these little people running around assaulting bus drivers, and passengers. They only seem to know how to sort things out with their fists, these people.
    
    It’s about time Auckland transport put safety barriers between the drivers and the passengers like you see overseas in some countries.
    
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    September 10, 2024 9:45am
  - cmm
    
    In the 90s I lived in Auckland in St Heliers and rode a bike along Tamaki drive to town and back. Nice ride, 10km each way, except when it was raining or the wind was too brutal.
    
    I was working in an office full of programmers that tolerated people working in smelly T-shirt and shorts etc, but the stuffed suits (lawyers and accountant types) who shared a lift with us didn’t appreciate us.
    
    On week ends I would often take my young son for a ride to watch the helicopter at Mechanics Bay or to the ferries and go for a ride around Birkenhead.
    
    I was exceptionally lucky with my flat ride along Tamaki Drive.
    
    For the most part, riding around Auckland is hell. To be expected when you build a city in a a bunch of old volcano cones.
    
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    September 10, 2024 10:50am
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    In Wellington over the weekend, drove from Melling to the city beside the new $200 M cycle way in the middle of a lovely sunny afternoon. Saw one cyclist, two skateboarders, several walkers and about five – eight runners. And then we got to the dogs breakfast at Thordon Quay, unused cycle lane almost as wide as the vehicle lane. What a fluster cluck.
    
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    September 10, 2024 2:36pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Auckland Council:
  “Transport With Emissions Reduction Pathway (TWERP)”//
  One day the Council and AT might do something useful, but not in my lifetime.
  
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  September 10, 2024 8:46am
- rockape
  
  Well they could make a start by cancelling all council owned cars including the Mayoral one.
  
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  September 10, 2024 9:14am
  - Ruawai
    
    Tell AT they can have their fancy bike paths as long as they get rid of all AT cars and car parking and make it compulsory for their staff to walk, bus, bike or train to work and around Auckland during their working day.
    
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    September 10, 2024 9:19am
    - GJM
      
      As I recall, AT or Council at one stage had big offices in Hnederson, by the train line. They put on $122000 of special shuttle buses rather than public transport becuase “public transport took to long”.
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-council-staff-get-special-shuttles/G27AF5G4IGV32WORKKUOJZEVTI/
      ” Workers’ $122,000 buses get to service centres quicker while ratepayers are stuck with slower options
      
      First it was the mayor catching the train while being followed by his ratepayer-funded chauffeur-driven car.
      
      Now, Len Brown’s staff have been riding in special shuttles zipping around Auckland – apparently because it’s faster than the public transport they provide to ratepayers.
      
      Council-controlled Auckland Transport has started a shuttle bus service for its staff, surprising public transport watchers.
      
      The Herald has discovered a second shuttle at Auckland Council and plans for a third in the works.
      
      With Auckland Transport costing its shuttle at $122,000 for a six-month trial, it could set the bill for moving council staff around Auckland close to $700,000 a year.
      
      Auckland Transport yesterday highlighted expected benefits in a statement – being able to cut down the size of its car fleet and improve “business efficiency”.
      
      But it also tried to justify the decision by saying the train took too long: “Public transport is also an option used by many staff to travel to meetings in the city but the timings of the trains don’t always suit.
      
      “The train takes 45 minutes whereas the shuttle door-to-door is 20 to 25 minutes.”
      
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      September 10, 2024 1:19pm
    - Paulus
      
      Staff in Tauranga Council have FREE bus passes to get to and from work, and the rest.
      Free – wow !
      
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      September 10, 2024 3:12pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Free is when it was stolen from someone else
        
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        September 10, 2024 4:15pm
      - Countrygirl
        
        So that’s who are on the buses! They are pretty much empty the rest of the time. They even blacked out the windows so we wouldn’t notice.
        
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        September 10, 2024 10:29pm
  - Burtland
    
    the Christchurch Council stopped staff using bikes for work due to Heath & Safety
    so they then started Ubering and ran up a massive bill
    
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    September 10, 2024 9:31am
    - peterwn
      
      The former NZ Electricity Department office in Christchurch’s Reserve Bank building had a yellow coloured (fleet colour) bike for staff use. It was called the ‘Yellow Peril’.
      
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      September 10, 2024 9:51am
    - cmm
      
      Really?
      
      Let’s build a bunch of cycle pathways costing something like $100k per km.
      But don’t use them because you might get hurt.
      
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      September 10, 2024 10:52am
  - kowtow
    
    Comrade ,
    Cars for the kommissars , peddling for peasants , now off to the gulag with you for reactionary thought .
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:23am
- Eastlander
  
  Perhaps it is time to outlaw the promotion of cyclist ideology.
  
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  September 10, 2024 9:29am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Christchurch is the same. After 5 years of promoting buses and bikes, the rush hour traffic is reportedly the worst in the country.
  
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  September 10, 2024 9:51am
  - MCōs
    
    When I lived in Chch in the sixties the bicycle was king. Amsterdam was the Chch of the north.
    Apart from the Port Hills it’s flat, little rain and the population wasn’t the whiney types that seem to live there now.
    Ambulance! Who needs an ambulance? It’s only a broken arm. I’ll bike to the hospital.
    
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    September 10, 2024 10:20am
    - RoboRob
      
      Have to agree. As a cyclist in CHCH, its about the best place for cycling I can imagine, excluding the the port hills.
      
      Some times you get a head wind, but thats about it. The roads are flat and generally wide enough. If I drive to work, which I do less then once a year, it takes me at least 50% longer to get to or from work.
      
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      September 10, 2024 10:29am
    - Observer of Life
      
      MCos: It’s bloody windy though.
      
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      September 10, 2024 2:36pm
  - RoboRob
    
    I strongly doubt Christchurh has the worst rush hour traffic in the country. The traffic in Auckland is alwasy much worse then Christchurch whenever I visit.
    
    I think there are more cyclists in CHCH now then five years ago, but I suspect there are less people using the busses. Any worsing in traffic is likely much more related to increasing population then a failure of people to use cycles 🙂
    
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    September 10, 2024 10:32am
  - cmm
    
    Is Chch rush hour really the worst in the country?
    There is virtually no rush hour traffic in Chch. There is much less than I remember when I have been in Auckland and after 6pm it is close to gone.
    
    NZ rush hour traffic is absolutely nothing compared to Johannesburg, Cape Town or San Francisco.
    
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    September 10, 2024 10:55am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      In some places in Christchurch it is very bad in the afternoon between 4 and 6. Papanui road is awful. Brougham Street is usually awful. Colombo street towards cashmere. The choke point at the end of the southern motorway.
      
      I don’t know whether it is the worst in the country. Read it somewhere. I do know that it has worsened over the last 5 years during those peak times.
      
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      September 10, 2024 1:27pm
      - cmm
        
        I would certainly agree it has got worse in the last 5 years.
        
        I live in Bishopdale and I travel out to, or back from Sumner etc on a daily basis either through town, via Papanui Rd or around the outside via QE2 drive (or whatever it is called). This is often between 4 and 6pm.
        
        Sure, the traffic can slow quite a bit especially on Waimari Rd but it is really nothing on an international scale. Also way less than Auckland.
        
        The Brougham St section is worse. than most of Chch, but likewise, Auckland has worse bits too.
        
        I suggest you try San Francisco 101 outside SFO at rush hour (5 lanes in each direction choked to a standstill), or maybe Cape Town Hospital Hill (think Spaghetti Junction with extra spaghetti).
        
        Yes, Chch is getting worse, but it is still child’s play.
        
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        September 10, 2024 3:14pm
      - sherp
        
        Hmmm I wonder why Papanui rd is just so congested
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350352889/christchurch-road-nine-traffic-lights-all-within-16km
        
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        September 10, 2024 6:03pm
  - sherp
    
    More raised intersections to slow cars down and let less vehicles through each light change should help that derp derp derp… how about we ad a 3rd lane to a motorway but make it so that were that lane begins at an on ramp the vesicles coming onto the motor way from the on ramp are forced into the center lane by making the new 3rd lane a truck lane only.. talking about the northern motorway in Christchurch btw… this sort of crap just proves the pinko urban planers who make these road layouts don’t actually care about safety as that sort of crap is just inherently unsafe
    
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    September 10, 2024 6:00pm
- nz_aj
  
  This is exactly the sort of thing the previous government and council signed up for. Remember Phil Goff signing the C40 Fossil-Fuel-Free Streets Declaration to procure only zero-emission buses from 2025 and to ensure that Auckland’s city centre has zero emissions by 2030. https://ourauckland.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/news/2017/10/mayor-commits-to-a-greener-auckland/
  
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  September 10, 2024 1:46pm
artemisia

Surge in non-disclosure agreements at Health NZ sparks Labour complaint

Complaint was made to the Public Service Commission, basis of the complaint not really clear from the article but appears to be that the NDAs might stifle internal debate.

In a statement, Health NZ chief executive Margie Apa told RNZ the NDAs were for staff involved in addressing recent financial pressures and dealing with Budget-sensitive information.

Random impertinent question – are there a few dots about carefully selected and targeted leaks to be joined here?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/527468/surge-in-non-disclosure-agreements-at-health-nz-sparks-labour-complaint
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September 10, 2024 8:08am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Timely release of negative publicity just as news about free cancer drugs is released
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/527467/keytruda-opdivo-to-become-available-to-patients-with-advanced-cancer-for-free
  
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  September 10, 2024 9:38am
  - cmm
    
    “free”
    
    Nope, you’re still paying for it but how you pay is obfuscated.
    
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    September 10, 2024 10:58am
Damocles11

How’s the JT / Waipareira / MP investigation coming along?
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September 10, 2024 8:09am
- imalwaysright
  
  I think the investigation has been delayed until the cover-up is completed.
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:30am
- Ghost
  
  The indicative reporting date for the inquiry is 16 September 2024. Ms Baggott will be making no further comment until the inquiry is finished.
  
  Inquiry into the protection of personal information
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:34am
pdm

Woohoo the anti labour movement have an unscientific poll on the Treaty Principles Bill on Facebook.

Here is the latest – numbers not disclosed.

For 93%
Against 7%

I have a little more info on it over at No Minister:
https://nominister.wordpress.com/2024/09/10/the-country-may-well-support-the-treaty-principles-bill/
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September 10, 2024 8:16am
- kowtow
  
  Anytime a local council had a referendum on introducing ( bar a couple )on racist wards they were soundly smacked down.
  
  Thus Labour legislated to ram them through .
  
  To my mind that’s a true indication of where the country was on said issues .
  So was the huge support for Brash post Orewa , and that’s why the Establishment , Blob, Deep State, Swamp , call it what you will mobilised to delegitimise him.
  
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  September 10, 2024 8:40am
- Paulus
  
  In today’s BOP Times they give credit inside to the wonderful AIMS Games held in Tauranga for Intermediate Children-some 16,000 participants, and two opening ceremonies at which the Prime Minister addressed them warmly at the first one.
  Now my comment is that the newspaper pictures two of major Maori attendances and the Oath Ceremony in English and Maori and the Kapa Haka being performed.
  As we understand there are some 15% of the population are known as Maori, and yet at such a great week for these children we are one country, and not trying to show that we are two nations to impressionable children such as these. Or do the ignore it as it happens all the time.
  The BOP Times Editorial is about 200 Church people opposing the Seymour Bill, but have they seen it ?
  They only represent 200 people, so their parishioners will probably take no notice of their personal seeking attention grabbing view.
  
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  September 10, 2024 8:52am
  - kowtow
    
    Today’s Herald editorial is a truly unhinged rant against Seymour re that bill and the Crazy Clerics.
    
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    September 10, 2024 9:08am
  - PurplePen
    
    We’re almost in a position where we’re not allowed to celebrate our own unique NZ culture or if we do it’s invisible to the MSM.
    
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    September 10, 2024 12:08pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  The only hope is that Luxon does a David Cameron. Cracks and agrees to a referendum, Brexit style. A referendum would be passed with a comfortable majority. Betwen 55 percent and 65 percent in favour. Wellington voters would be the exception.
  
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  September 10, 2024 9:55am
  - kowtow
    
    Luxon “cracking” would be down to their focus groups and internal polling ……
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:26am
    - Conservatarian
      
      You can’t have rule by experts if you actually ask the plebs but.
      
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      September 10, 2024 1:03pm
- imalwaysright
  
  A treaty principles bill ( a nonsensical title given that treaties have terms, not principles) is presumptuous.
  
  The first step should be a referendum to find out whether the country wants to relegate the treaty to the status of historical curiosity.
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:42am
  - PurplePen
    
    Absolutely agree. The label of the bill should really be “Removal of any reference to Treaty principles from all legislation and central and local government agencies”.
    
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    September 10, 2024 12:10pm
Yvette

Open Letter – from closed minds?

• The open letter, released on Monday by the organisation Common Grace Aotearoa, expressed the Christian leaders’ opposition to the Bill and their commitment to Te Tiriti.
“We affirm that Te Tiriti o Waitangi protects the tino rangatiratanga of hapū and iwi. That rangatiratanga over land and taonga is to be upheld,” it said.
“The proposed Bill is inconsistent with Te Tiriti o Waitangi … [1]

• but from the Waitangi Tribunal website –
The second
The Queen of England agrees to protect the chiefs, the subtribes and all the people of New Zealand in the unqualified exercise of their chieftainship over their lands, villages and all their treasures. … [2]

So to be more accurate – and it makes a considerable difference – the open letter should perhaps have read:
That rangatiratanga over their land and their taonga is to be upheld,” it said.

Then it will actually echo the National-led Coalition Government proposed bill’s clarification or restatement of Article 2 –
The New Zealand Government will honour all New Zealanders in the chieftainship of their land and all their property [3]

_____________

And a matter which Common Grace Aotearoa could perhaps wonder about –
If the National-led Coalition Government proposed bill is voted down or abandoned, what are the implications of that for the validity of the Treaty Articles, which the bill supposedly seeks to clarify, restate or affirm?

Hone Harawira, at Waitangi:
Sorry, David, you’re on your own on this.
One the thing you need to
know is: that when it comes time to see
whether this is going to go into
legislation, you and your shitty ass bill
are going down the toilet ! [4]

If the bill’s clarification or restatement of the Treaty goes down the toilet
does the Treaty in fact go down the toilet as well?

There for the Common Grace of God?

_____________
[1] https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/527412/treaty-principles-bill-440-christian-leaders-sign-open-letter-asking-mps-to-vote-no
[2] https://www.waitangitribunal.govt.nz/treaty-of-waitangi/translation-of-te-reo-maori-text/
[3] https://www.treaty.nz
[4] Peters, Seymour heckled during Waitangi proceedings – transcript
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-yL9h_Lba0
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September 10, 2024 8:16am
- Burtland
  
  Micheal Laws accuses the 400 church leaders of signing up to a lie
  – starts around 5:20
  
  https://theplatform.kiwi/podcasts/episode/laws-reacts-to-church-leaders-open-letter-on-treaty-principles-bill
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:10am
  - MCōs
    
    That would be *Michael*
    
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    September 10, 2024 10:22am
- PurplePen
  
  Yvette, very succinctly explained. Further conclusive evidence as to what the Brits meant by Treaty item 2 is in section 71 of the 1852 NZ Constitution Act. I’ve posted this before, but it’s relevant:
  
  The words to note here are “it may be expedient” and “should for the present” … the arrangement was temporary.
  
  71. And Whereas it may be expedient that the laws, customs, and usages of the aboriginal or native inhabitants of New Zealand, so far as they are not repugnant to the general principles of humanity, should for the present be maintained for the government of themselves, in all their relations to and dealings with each other, and that particular districts should be set apart within which such laws, customs, or usages should be so observed:
  
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  September 10, 2024 12:17pm
Yvette

Nearly 450 Christian leaders have signed an open letter calling on MPs to vote down the Bill.
It was released by Common Grace Aotearoa and signed by leaders from the Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Salvation Army and Vineyard denominations– RNZ

Common Grace Aotearoa is a registered charity in New Zealand under the name Christian Action Aotearoa (CC61110). We are an independent organisation, in friendly association with Common Grace in Australia who are pursuing a similar mission
https://www.commongrace.nz

Common Grace acknowledges the Traditional Custodians and their stewardship of these lands since time immemorial. We pay our respects to Elders, past, present and emerging. We acknowledge that sovereignty of these lands and waters has never been ceded. We commit to walking softly and gently upon these lands in the invitation of friendship and reconciliation.
https://www.commongrace.org.au.

At the 2024 National Gathering you can expect everything you’ve grown to love about the kaupapa of Common Grace Aotearoa! We’ll be having some wonderfully well thought through kōrero (conversation) about Climate, Economic and Te Tiriti Justice, as well as peace in Palestine. We really recommend coming for the full weekend if you can!
https://www.commongrace.nz/common-grace-actions/national-gathering-2024
_________________

In response, Seymour said his party believed all citizens should have equal rights, “not equal rights for some based on their ancestry” – RNZ

– and, from elsewhere …
[Many] human beings are simply ghosts with bodies. In short, they are phantoms of their past. Their lives are simply programmed by their ancestral memory … Jesus urged his disciples to leave the dead to the dead.

Are the Common Grace Aotearoa followers, who are descendants of those who were physically colonised, now re-colonising themselves mentally, while perhaps only God knows what the Common Grace Aotearoa non-Maori participants are doing, and offering to their flocks.
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September 10, 2024 8:39am
- Philview
  
  I am really dismayed by this. I can no longer sit in a Church that has no issue with the framework of He Puapua but asks the Government to strike down a referendum on fundamental human rights. In the UK last week the Rev Chris Wickland in a passionate plea on YouTube asked people to leave woke churches immediately which is very apt for NZ as well. Maybe I am disappearing down a rabbit hole but it feels like the country has a very dark future with so much of it now ideologically controlled.
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:11am
  - Yvette
    
    This is why, Philview, it is a pity the National-led Coalition Government proposed bill will not reassert that Government and all its services should be secular.
    Christianity is no longer much acknowledged by Parliament, which may personally disappoint the likes of Christopher Luxon, but if a secular policy was established formally, much of te Ao o Maori, the Maori religious worldview, would be eliminated – and that could make a world(view) of difference.
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:04am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    The greens and TPM will have e we irked on them, the leaders I seen speaking were Māori, one was called Tamahere, no need to think too hard
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:51am
- kowtow
  
  I wonder which cabinet minister has oversight of ‘charities’ .
  A lot of these bodies have special tax status too.
  
  But if they insist on meddling with affairs of state …..
  
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  September 10, 2024 11:30am
- PurplePen
  
  “We commit to walking softly and gently upon these lands in the invitation of friendship and reconciliation.”
  
  Its completely unreasonable to expect a whole part of a nation that is not of maori race to be expected to behave as above in perpetuity, always in reconciliation. Utter pharasees.
  
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  September 10, 2024 12:21pm
Dudley Quaffquaff

Three news headlines from the Herald in my Google feed, yesterday and today
…

Teenager held in connection with Grey Lynn murder
Policeman caught having sex in patrol car
Bus driver left with spinal injuries after attack

… were all illustrated with a picture of David Seymour and some pokie machines.
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September 10, 2024 8:39am
- sirknz
  
  He is clearly a bad man…
  
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  September 10, 2024 4:07pm
Damocles11

The left wing Herald has picked up a story from Red Radio about a woman who died of a suspected cardiac arrest while waiting to be seen at the emergency department of Rotorua Hospital. The leftists have managed to work ‘short staffed’ and ‘staff were distraught’ into the story. Predictably there has been an outpouring of comments blaming the government and stating that our health system ‘is falling apart’.
I’ve never not waited hours at a hospital emergency dept, amongst the walk in hordes from all ethnicities who turn up with runny noses and all aches and pains. This is not new. It is what it is. Many people clearly habitually don’t go to their GP, they show up at the hospital for free assessment and treatment, and the place is packed as a result. They should know that they are depriving genuine emergency cases of a chance to be seen promptly, but they do it anyway.
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September 10, 2024 8:43am
- rockape
  
  Genuine emergency cases are triaged and get priority. Sniffly noses wait and often give up and go to the chemists.
  
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  September 10, 2024 9:18am
  - sherp
    
    Yea start falling asleep in the ED after a head injury and you’ll go straight through.
    
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    September 10, 2024 6:06pm
- Ghost
  
  No they aren’t depriving anyone. People are triaged on their need. You have no idea what a sniffly nose actually is. Just because you see someone there with the sniffles doesn’t mean you know what they are there for.
  
  Down here if they are in the ED it is because they belong there, otherwise the triage nurse sends them off to the duty gp.
  
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  September 10, 2024 9:23am
  - Ghost
    
    Btw, here is an article about a rare medical condition
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/medical-mysteries-her-runny-nose-signalled-something-more-serious/TN7ZVKJ6MZHU3C343ZTHRZYIOI/
    
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    September 10, 2024 9:27am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘because they belong there’
    
    I’ve seen great acting , worthy of Oscars , get people through the door quick fast and they were such ’emergencies’ seen them emerging , while I’m still waiting with my charge .
    
    There’s a huge constituency of chancers who know exactly how to game the system , the already broken system .
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:36am
    - Ghost
      
      When I’ve been there I’ve seen the triage nurse turn away people who are not an emergency, sending them to the on duty gp. I’ve even been up there when I’ve had the sniffles. Problem is that wasn’t why I was there, it was that I needed iv bag for a few hours to get my blood pressure back up
      
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      September 10, 2024 11:46am
- Ian Boag
  
  The leftists have managed to work ‘short staffed’ and ‘staff were distraught’ into the story. Predictably there has been an outpouring of comments blaming the government and stating that our health system ‘is falling apart’.
  
  So – they weren’t short staffed and staff were not distraught and the health system is not falling apart.
  
  To think I nearly believed it – silly me.
  
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  September 10, 2024 9:48am
- Benedict Yu
  
  If you turn up at an emergency room with suspected heart attack symptoms you are seen immediately.
  
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  September 10, 2024 9:59am
  - Grunter
    
    Not always – I have had a friend recently waiting for 1 Hr in the waiting room with back and arm pains, and shortness of breath. No chest pain so was left to wait. Finally given an ECG – blocked artery, stent put in within a hour of diagnosis, good outcome…..but waited for an hour in the waiting room literally having a heart attack.
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:00am
- MCōs
  
  That’s a very flippant comment, Damocles11
  An adequately staffed A & E would ensure that the more serious cases are given priority.
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:33am
  - rockape
    
    There is no such thing as an adequately staffed ED. An ED can go from being ahead of the game to 12 hour waiting time in the blink of an eye. All it takes is a major vehicle accident.
    My wife’s first week in ED back in the UK changed in seconds. All it took was an aircraft in fog with 126 people on board landing short and taking out a motorway . Every ED in Leicester was full within minutes. Kedgeworth : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegworth_air_disaster
    
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    September 10, 2024 1:25pm
- gravedodger
  
  Seems a gross absence of efficient triage to me, any cardiac symptoms need very quick response to be safe.
  Took Swmbo to ChCh ED a while ago for a head wound that had stitches and nine staples applied to stop an arterial bleed. There was a total lack of any triage on that occasion also.
  Wait time for Ambulance was 2 hours and 30 mins and ED wait for any form of investigation another almost three hours.
  A personal observation arrived at later suggested to me, a retired farmer doing some basic triage could only improve things as they make regular triage decisions without any patient input sometimes daily in considering whether to call the ‘Vetrinary’.
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:58am
- Paulus
  
  As it was Rotorua Hospital may we assume that the person who sadly died was Maori, so the media can blame the Elected Government, again.
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:58am
  - kowtow
    
    Given the way some health authorities are acting these days one could as easily assume she was white and therefor was forced to wait , while they prioritised others ………
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:39am
    - rockape
      
      One of the failings in hospitals is their lack of flexibility and inability to make decisions. There are plenty of nurses in the average hospital on the wards. But try moving them to ED when that becomes understaffed is near impossible. This is a constant battle in Ed both from staffing viewpoint and with wards not declaring beds availability. This means Ed end up looking after patients who should not be in Ed but should be on a ward. Staff are tied up tending to people in corridors. For info: I spent half my life in disaster management and training people for that, and, my wife is an ED nurse Practicioner who trains ED staff nationwide in triage.
      
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      September 10, 2024 1:37pm
  - MCōs
    
    More than 60% of the local population identify as pakeha. More than 40% as Māori and the remaining all sorts of other ethnicities.
    I’m not familiar with the Rotorua Hospital, but from my experience and observations being assertive and respectful is a good way to make progress
    
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    September 10, 2024 2:08pm
    - julesnzuk
      
      If they’re proud to be NZ European then I very much doubt that many of them identify as “pakeha”.
      
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      September 11, 2024 3:35am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Harris Policies?

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/kamala-harris-finally-uploads-a-policy-page-to-her-website/ss-AA1qgF9z?
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September 10, 2024 8:58am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  There does not seem to be anything, or very little for Defence, or Veterans.
  A new way forward.
  
  https://kamalaharris.com/issues/
  
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  September 10, 2024 9:05am
  - alloytoo
    
    Anything about plastic straws and destroying whole industries? Perhaps Jacinda whipped it up for her.
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:36am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  This is only because it was leaked
  
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  September 10, 2024 11:54am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Vote for me so when I win I can tell you what my Policies are?
    
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    September 11, 2024 6:56am
Grunter

Over the past 15-20 years the NZ economy has done well by trading with China. China has grown like no other economy in history, 100’s of millions of Chinese citizens have gone from third world to the low end of developed world status.

But the numbers that have driven that growth have now all ended. Which has a huge flow-on effect on NZ, particularly our farmers.

China’s problems are immense and, IMO, unsolvable. All are connected, and all symptomatic (again) of failed central planning (The CCP);
1. Population growth has stopped and is now in decline. No more growth from this one.
2. Manufacturing growth has stalled and starting to decline. China’s market share of global supply has maxed out. The US & the EU are both putting up large trade barriers. No more growth from this one either.
3. Internal infrastructure and housing builds have maxed out and are now in collapse mode. Past GDP has been artificially boosted by this. The bubble has popped.
4. Internal consumption has never really kicked in. The Chinese citizens are now saving anything they can as they sense things are bad. Internal consumption growth won’t boost GDP to any material degree.
5. Credit (debt) expansion has driven most of the historic GDP growth. This has now maxed out and in the case of the Local Govt Financing Vehicles (LGFV’s) are at ridiculous levels (house of cards waiting to happen). So no growth via credit expansion.

Some punters say China is the next big economic leader. I say they have already peaked and there is no path that brings them growth. The best they can hope for is avoid a collapse.
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September 10, 2024 9:01am
- kowtow
  
  I suspect what many people don’t realise is the CCP is caught in a trap of wanting wealth /growth ( Deng Xiao Ping) and also of avoiding chaos which their recent history has been so full of ,going back over 150 years ie the TaiPing rebellion , which was truly terrible and weakened the state so profoundly that all the Imperial powers could pick over it at will ,not to mention their own chaos from civil war to Mao’s crazy policies , causing famine , genocide and civil disorder ( cultural revolution) within living memory.And to avoid chaos that needs power ( Xi Jing Ping) . As well as the authoritarian’s natural inclinations .
  
  Over investing , as NZ has done , in that millieu has never been a good idea or morally sound.
  
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  September 10, 2024 9:21am
Yvette

Regarding the Common Grace (Christian Action Aotearoa) Open Letter, timed to nip anticipated Cabinet comment in the bud

Perhaps, in the context of their Bible-quoting open letter, Common Grace could consider –
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

While the Prime Minister yesterday proclaimed from the Podium of Truth that he himself has not yet seen the draft bill, 440 persons who represent Common Grace (Christian Action Aotearoa) and who have also not seen the bill (with plank, or not), have already made their judgement.
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September 10, 2024 9:04am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  And that screeching swarbrick saying it’s unbelievable how they want to change the wording of the treaty, does this idiot never listen?
  
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  September 10, 2024 12:10pm
- kiwi_chileno
  
  And Common Grace should reflect upon Mark 12:17: “And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.”
  
  In other words, there is a kingdom of this world, and the temporal, secular authorities (the State) holds power over it. But there is another kingdom, not of this world, and Jesus is King of that, separate from earthly politics.
  
  I have no truck with Anglican theologians, preachers, et al and Maori who argue that the Treaty is a sacred covenant – a spiritual, divine compact. They think it is unbibical and irrational to think that the Treaty is only a secular contract.
  
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  September 10, 2024 2:39pm
slightlyrighty

I see that Stuff is runnig a poll on what Wellington’s biggest problem is.

Currently the leading problem is “Wellington City Council”
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September 10, 2024 9:21am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The people who answer the poll must be different to those who vote.
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:00am
  - gravedodger
    
    Not necessarily so Ben Yu, as such would require a cognitive ability to conflate a personal political ideology with the ‘in their face’ turmoil dealt with every day.
    Decades of voting for ineptness seems to make such an ability non functioning.
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:04am
- PurplePen
  
  Thanks. Hadn’t come across that I’ll go and vote now.
  
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  September 10, 2024 12:25pm
Observer of Life

Yesterday I was talking to a young girl about her High School experience. She told me when it came to Maori words, if they didn’t pronounce them “correctly”, they were given detentions. My first thought was, where were her parents in going into bat for her. There is no way I would have tolerated mine being punished like that. They wouldn’t have done any “time” for that supposed “crime”. Consequently, she had no time for Maori or education. Sad.
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September 10, 2024 9:25am
- Benedict Yu
  
  You should disclose the name of the school.
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:01am
  - Observer of Life
    
    Tuakau College. Apparently they are happy to turn a blind eye to bullying, but pronounce “Tuakau” incorrectly and you’re in detention. The saying “watch your back” takes on a whole new meaning there. You literally have to be hyper aware of your surroundings, for own safety, EVERY day. Appalling.
    
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    September 10, 2024 1:39pm
    - sherp
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-bbYH_akHg this is what Leftist look like when they’re trying to correct someone else accent…
      
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      September 10, 2024 6:10pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  But you can get away without jeprodising your opportuniddies if you arks the right pacifics.
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:11am
  - NothingLeft
    
    I totally refude your stadement
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:08am
- Flossie
  
  I can’t recall which prominent person disclosed very recently that the late Maori king said (when prominent person apologised for his poor Maori language skills) that the important thing was that he’d tried.
  I wonder if pupils at this school are punished for their poor English pronunciation. There’s a lot of that about.
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:13am
  - MCōs
    
    There’s a lot of that in our house!
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:44am
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Well done Mcos – I tell ESOL speakers that apologise for inaccuracies that their English is better than my ability to speak their mother tongue!
      
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      September 10, 2024 1:45pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    Floss: Exactly!! As Blogaholic & Nothing Left have so beautifully outlined. Whatever happened to ensuring our English language is clear and annunciated correctly. Nope. Ma-ori is way more important.
    
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    September 10, 2024 1:59pm
- kowtow
  
  ‘Consequently, she had no time for Maori or education. Sad.’
  
  Why sad.
  
  She’s learned a very important lesson .
  
  btw I was in a local authority office recently. Fancy tv screens in the public arena . What was the televisual fare . How to correctly pronounce local place names ,maori ones that it. Phuck orf.
  
  Rate payers money really well spent .//
  
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  September 10, 2024 11:45am
- PurplePen
  
  Didn’t Maori kids get punished if they didn’t speak English when required? Additionally, ol’ English words get pronounced all sorts of ways by those where it’s not their first language. I don’t see anyone getting terribly upset about it.
  
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  September 10, 2024 12:37pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    Purple: From what I’ve read. Maori parents wanted “English only” at school to give their kids a better chance in the country/world. Maori at home. My Samoan mate was brought up that way. She’s fluent in both, but all the children understood it was to give them a level playing field. She and all her siblings have done very well in life.
    I believe schools back then insisted all nationalities were to speak English only at school, including Dutch etc. And there are stories where these others were “punished” if they didn’t adhere to it as well. Let’s face it, back then teachers would (happily) punish you for anything they perceived as wrong. Evil b-stards.
    
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    September 10, 2024 2:12pm
    - sirknz
      
      My father’s family came from Scandinavia, as did many of his friends. I remember being told by them that their parents insisted that they speak English in the home “because we have moved to an English speaking country, therefore we must speak English”.
      
      My wife couldn’t quite compute this when I told her it was the reality for many white immigrants to NZ when she was banging on about “how it is bad that we cut people off from their cultures when they move here”, were we to move to any Asian country, we would likely learn the lingo and try to adapt culturally..
      
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      September 10, 2024 4:26pm
    - PurplePen
      
      You’re correct. Back then even the parents would hit their kids if they were found out not speaking English, and as you say it was the parents back then had the wisdom to see that learning English was extremely beneficial. And yes, I just missed the error when you’d get hit over the knuckles for writing with your left hand. Phew
      
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      September 10, 2024 5:06pm
- PurplePen
  
  Also, is that when she was speaking maori or was it when she was speaking English with the artificially inserted Maori words. The latter, you’re speaking English and everyone will naturally apply the pronunciation rules for English to any foreign word and that word will eventually become a word of the English language.
  
  I’m surprised elite Maori haven’t complained that Maori words being inserted into colonialist English is theft of Maori taonga and that there should be a royalty paid for each use of each word.
  
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  September 10, 2024 12:41pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    You are right purple pen, eventually the words will get swallowed into English or NZ English. It will not result in more speakers of Māori.
    
    You are also correct that it is natural to speak with the common vowel sounds of your native tongue. It is hard to swap between these sounds. We don’t say words of French or Italian or German origin with the original tongue – that doesn’t make us racist. But not saying Māori words to Māori pronunciation makes you racist apparently!
    
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    September 10, 2024 1:39pm
    - AitchW
      
      English, unlike it seems Maori, is constantly evolving. There are literally thousands of words in the English lexicon borrowed from others without any significant change.
      Even the French borrow from other languages. Evolution is the lifeblood of a living, breathing language.
      If Maori insist that Te Reo is to be frozen in the 1700s that will simply accelerate its demise. I’m not sure that swapping ‘l’ for ‘r’ and ‘s’ for ‘h’ and adding a vowel to the end of a word counts. (Look at Pirihmana for policeman, Hato for saint).
      
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      September 10, 2024 3:31pm
      - Blog-aholic
        
        My favourite ‘evolution’ is Waka Topatopa……
        
        English has evolved by including other languages into itself like kayak, kindergarten, algebra etc.
        
        It strikes me that te reo ‘evolves’ by taking a name that exists in english for a ‘thing’ and making up one for te reo whihc is more revolution than evolution…..
        
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        September 10, 2024 3:52pm
      - PurplePen
        
        And there’s a difference. You used the term borrowed which is the linguistic technical term for when one language takes a word from another. In the case of maori, the words are being artificially inserted, not borrowed which I’d wager hasn’t happened anywhere else in on the planet.
        
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        September 10, 2024 5:10pm
      - sherp
        
        I remember being taught in school in the 90’s that Maori for car was auto and that they borrowed that word as they had no word of their own… now waka is good enough for all vehicles.. and now a car park can be called Te waka waipapa so the boat water father is somehow bastardized into carpark.
        
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        September 10, 2024 6:24pm
  - Blog-aholic
    
    I think if you dig you will find indeed some actually have.
    
    Some in fact have gone as far as to state that ‘non-maori’ folk should not even learn it as it is for maori only.
    
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    September 10, 2024 3:48pm
Jack5

Auckland bus driver bashed with a skateboard.

What’s the police plan to make Auckland bus drivers safer?

Police Minister Mitchell was talking recently about “intelligence gathering” from foot patrols by freed-up police.

Let’s hope the expanded police, relieved of mental patient calls, can also put people in plain clothes on Auckland buses, preferably carrying tasers and pistols.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-bus-driver-assaulted-fare-dodgers-on-new-lynn-24r-route-beat-man-with-skateboard/SLER3G3DWFEBPD7BYY34DHYGCM/
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September 10, 2024 9:28am
- Ghost
  
  Shouldn’t it be up to the bus companies to provide a safer working environment. That could be a shield around the driver, or privatr security on busses.
  
  12 6
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  September 10, 2024 9:37am
  - Dougal10
    
    Next you will be suggesting that having no passengers would make the job safer.
    
    15 4
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    September 10, 2024 9:52am
    - Ghost
      
      So you don’t think an employer should be responsible for their staff safety? WINZ and the hospitals use private security.
      
      7 4
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      September 10, 2024 10:21am
      - kowtow
        
        So do supermarkets , and that’s working a treat ……not.
        
        winz is window dressing , after the fact, and the cost to the taxpayer must be eye watering …..or ball busting.
        
        6 2
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        September 10, 2024 11:47am
      - Ghost
        
        Security guards can stop an assault and detain the person until police arrive.
        
        3 1
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        September 10, 2024 2:15pm
      - sirknz
        
        Guess what extra rights those working private security have that you or I don’t.
        
        None. Other than being paid barely above minimum wage and being given the finest polyester uniform that money can buy, they can do exactly the same things we can.
        
        They can’t hit people, they can’t apprehend people, they can’t do anything.
        
        4 0
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        September 10, 2024 4:33pm
      - Ghost
        
        Security guards are allowed to use force to prevent crime or arrest offenders, just like any citizen, but it must be reasonable and justified.
        
        Link
        
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        September 10, 2024 4:44pm
    - pdm
      
      Probably why one never hears of Hawkes Bay (Napier/Hastings) bus drivers being bashed or even abused.
      
      One never sees anyone on the buses.
      
      13 0
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      September 10, 2024 10:27am
    - gravedodger
      
      Observing many busses on streets of The Village of The Damned, that policy is already in situ Dougal10.
      
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      September 10, 2024 11:06am
  - AitchW
    
    Time for Worksafe to earn their keep! Either make the drivers safe or the busses don’t run. Where’s the union?
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:07am
  - MCōs
    
    In London the bus drivers not only have security screens, but they don’t handle cash.
    Who
    
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    September 10, 2024 11:19am
    - MCōs
      
      That *who* is surplus to requirements
      
      5 0
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      September 10, 2024 11:35am
    - lifesgood
      
      They don’t handle cash in Auckland but badly need security screens. There’s some absolute vermin out there.
      
      7 0
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      September 10, 2024 11:50am
      - Surely Knott
        
        Sure the screens will protect the driver. But what about the passengers. What if we put a screen around the criminal instead?
        
        2 0
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        September 10, 2024 5:16pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        On Sunday a Woman at West Auckland pool had her fingers severed by her car door when her car was being carjacked!!
        
        She is about 60 and Chinese the article tells us. 🤷 This is the state of modern NZ where we give the ethnicity and age of the victim but not the description of the criminal? !!
        
        “Police are speaking to three people in relation to this.” So two days on , they have retrieved the car, yet no arrests. No names. No description. When you are permanently mutilated at the car park of a busy public pool on a Sunday.
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/woman-seriously-injured-following-carjacking-in-henderson/WMQQU6MIPZEVBPRROWAMIW277A/
        
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        September 10, 2024 5:32pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “No names. No description.”
        
        Lest the public notice what’s really going on in NZ.
        
        A minority of un-elected and out of touch noddys deciding what’s best for the majority.
        
        4 0
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        September 10, 2024 6:56pm
    - peterwn
      
      Been like that for some years – only payment method is oyster or a contactless credit/debit card (just as good as Oyster).
      
      7 0
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      September 10, 2024 12:09pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Looks like they are doing this, but not quickly enough for the drivers and their families.
    
    Auckland Transport said it “can’t provide detail on this individual incident” but added it was rolling out safety screens to protect drivers, with a promise of installing them in all new buses and a target to fit out 80% of its fleet within two years.
    
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    September 10, 2024 1:53pm
    - Ghost
      
      Drivers should refuse to use any bus without it installed. 2 years is stupid
      
      4 0
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      September 10, 2024 2:18pm
    - AitchW
      
      Bus company should put a security guard on every bus without a screen. And the union should be insisting that no bus leaves the depot without either a screen or a guard.
      Bloody dairies have better security than busses!!!
      
      5 0
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      September 10, 2024 3:25pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Security guards are basically paid witnesses and aren’t designed for physical conflict.
        
        Maybe flashing panic lights on buses and gps senders would be a good deterrent and a way of attracting help.
        
        5 0
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        September 10, 2024 3:46pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Time to get tougher on the ferals! Plenty of passengers getting the bash who also need protection.
        
        How about we create drop off centres around the city manned by police so bus companies can do a drive through drop off of ferals?
        
        If you are guilty of highly antisocial behaviour on a bus you should lose the right to use the service.
        
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        September 10, 2024 3:51pm
      - AitchW
        
        Imalwaysright perhaps fog cannon and dye bombs. We need to deter these barbarians and mark them for easy identification.
        
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        September 10, 2024 5:59pm
    - cmm
      
      Funny how they could roll out COVID screens over a week end….
      
      4 0
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      September 10, 2024 5:08pm
      - AitchW
        
        All hail St Jacinda and St Ashley. ///
        
        2 1
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        September 10, 2024 6:00pm
    - waikatosinger
      
      As a passenger I’d be asking “where is my security screen?”. It doesn’t make me inclined to want to ride a bus.
      
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      September 10, 2024 6:16pm
- sherp
  
  Just think how much things would change if you could sue someone for damages if they assaulted you rather than ACC determining that there is no accountability for causing another person injury no matter how intentional that injury was…
  
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  September 10, 2024 6:27pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I promise to do everything I could have done but didn’t do because if I did I wouldn’t have to promise to do it, even though I could do it now, but don’t because I don’t know what to do otherwise I would have done it.
KH.
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September 10, 2024 9:31am
Nigel Kearney

Switzerland has stopped contributions to UNRWA:

https://www.20min.ch/fr/story/bande-de-gaza-le-national-veut-suspendre-immediatement-le-soutien-a-l-unrwa-103182231

A good start. Other nations that don’t want to fund terrorism should do the same.
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September 10, 2024 9:59am
- rjay
  
  Happy birthday NK.
  
  6 0
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  September 10, 2024 10:16am
- cmm
  
  We’re almost certain to stay firmly on the fence.
  
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  September 10, 2024 10:59am
Chuck Bird

This is a video by Bob McCriskie of Family First.

McBLOG: Paedophiles portrayed as ‘victims’ by Victoria Uni

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSEIuFGyJMA&t=54s
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September 10, 2024 10:17am
Ghost

The name suppression of the political figure was due to expire yesterday. No updates on if he has been given permanent name suppression.
13 1
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September 10, 2024 10:55am
- MCōs
  
  There’s one person whose name keeps cropping up who must be disappointed that all the wild speculation hasn’t been put to rest when it becomes clear it wasn’t him
  
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  September 10, 2024 11:11am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/527594/former-political-figure-convicted-of-indecent-assault-has-name-suppression-lifted-still-can-t-be-named
  
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  September 10, 2024 3:52pm
  - Ghost
    
    It seems stupid that he kept it when so many know who it is
    
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    September 10, 2024 4:26pm
- Ghost
  
  Oh poor man
  
  On Wednesday Brookie told the Court his client had invested in a small town business and had other business interests which would all suffer if he was named.
  
  Or is it he wants to keep name suppression because there are other survivors of his abuse
  
  “[The accused] is someone who is now convicted of sexual assaults against two young males. There is no presumption of innocence. There are no fair trial rights. There is a genuine public interest in knowing the identity of someone convicted.”
  
  Thompson said there was a potential that other complainants would come forward and those that were dealing with the man in future deserved the right to know his character.
  
  Article
  
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  September 10, 2024 5:05pm
MCōs

I was going to tell my wife that the voice behind Darth Vader had died
Never heard of him or the Star Wars movies
https://x.com/markhamill/status/1833246565168803985?s=46&t=XZLqGbhN-xeYzprhTaktsg
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September 10, 2024 11:04am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Never heard of Darth Vader or the Star Wars movies?
  Where have you been living since 1977? Mars?
  
  9 1
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  September 10, 2024 11:31am
  - MCōs
    
    Well it’s a funny thing, just because we think something’s a big deal in the West doesn’t mean it’s a big deal everywhere
    And vice versa
    
    6 2
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    September 10, 2024 2:39pm
- Ghost
  
  Is that a legal reason to divorce her?
  
  3 1
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  September 10, 2024 11:49am
  - MCōs
    
    I’m used it that sort of thing.
    She’s Thai
    
    3 0
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    September 10, 2024 3:37pm
  - MCōs
    
    Saw him on the news tonight
    Oh! That guy
    
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    September 10, 2024 8:45pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  Readers may enjoy this story of one part of his background. I find your ‘Ode to a Grapefruit’ disturbing.
  
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  September 10, 2024 2:12pm
Bobba Fret

And yet another murder investigation underway. Police resources must be stretched.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350409381/body-found-burnt-car-northland-beach
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September 10, 2024 11:07am
Grunter

I follow Ian Proud’s Blog. He was a UK Diplomat from 1999-23. Most recently the UK Diplomat in Russia and he is known as ‘Mr Sanctions’ as he is seen as an expert in that arena and was at the centre of the West’s sanctions against Russia (BTW he is a “Realist” and strongly recommended NOT to impose sanctions).

His latest post is interesting, Turkey joining BRICS. Makes you think – should NZ join BRICS?

https://www.prouddiplomat.com/post/turkey-joining-brics-represents-another-step-to-a-multipolar-world?
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September 10, 2024 11:17am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Possibly New Zealand should consider joining Brics.
  BUT, the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the World Economic Forum’s puppets would be deafening. Their vague ravings would keep their funding coming.
  Just as we all should know exactly what the principles of The Treaty are, there is a huge group of New Zealanders who want it to be kept vague. The vagueness keeps them in a job.
  
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  September 10, 2024 11:48am
  - sherp
    
    As a five eyes member I doubt they would take us.
    
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    September 10, 2024 6:31pm
rouppe

On reading the story that the Treaty Principles Bill wording is being changed I emailed David Seymour

I heard today that there has been a change to the wording of the Treaty Principles you are progressing. The wording change seems to say that only Maori property rights are protected, rather than all New Zealanders property rights.

I urge you to not concede your Principles.

All citizens of this country deserve protection, not just Maori

Interestingly he replied fairly quickly

It won’t say that, thanks for your support,

D

Not sure what to make of that but we’ll see I guess
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September 10, 2024 11:40am
- Grunter
  
  My understanding, from listening to a few interviews with Seymour, is that he is ADDING in a reference to Iwi as part of the 2nd Article/Principle. So something like “…. chieftainship for all New Zealanders, including Iwi,…..”
  
  So my take is that he is doing this to simply insert a specific reference to Maori, that way no one can say “But, but, you haven’t even mentioned Maori!!” I suspect the wokards in National brought it up yesterday, so Seymour has said, Ok “….and Iwi” – is that better??
  
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  September 10, 2024 2:47pm
  - rouppe
    
    A bit like the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership) being truly awful, but the CPTPP (Comprehensive and Progressive Trans Pacific Partnership) is the most wonderful thing in the world?
    
    If what you describe is what was concerning Cabinet ministers, then National and NZ First are disappointing.
    
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    September 10, 2024 3:33pm
  - fernglas
    
    It’s probably to cover the collective ownership of property that Maori have.
    
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    September 10, 2024 4:08pm
- kowtow
  
  ‘The wording change seems to say that only Maori property rights are protected, rather than all New Zealanders property rights.’
  
  There’s no way Seymour would go with that. None.
  
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  September 10, 2024 2:59pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Any maori words will be problematic, including the word maori.
    We are already seeing maori words being interpreted rather than defined, therefore we will be back to square one arguing the toss about meanings and intent.
    The main reasons for the treaty was to create a legal system and make maoris British subjects.
    The chance of reversing, or even considering reversing those, is zero. Therefore the treaty has long since served its purpose and is no longer needed.
    
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    September 10, 2024 4:46pm
goNZ1

how come no Oral Questions today ?
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September 10, 2024 1:03pm
- Ghost
  
  Im sure i read today has been set aside to pay respect to Kīngi Tūheitia
  
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  September 10, 2024 1:12pm
- AitchW
  
  Is the house under urgency? No oral questions when in urgency.
  
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  September 10, 2024 2:46pm
goNZ1

v likely
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September 10, 2024 1:25pm
rouppe

Last week i went to Christchurch to have a couple days skiing with my son.

I took a car transfer from Christchurch to Wellington in order to have a 4wd for the skiing. Came back on the ferry. Arrived in Wellington at 5:30am. The car had to be dropped at Wellington Airport.

So, i drove from Wellington out to Porirua to drop all my gear, and drove back into wellington Airport to drop the car. Total time, 1 hour. That’s 20-25 minutes each way plus time to drop my stuff in the house, and drop the keys at the rental counter.

Then i had to get home. Used the airport express and train. Wait time was minimal, couple minutes before the bus left and 10 minutes before the train left.

Here’s where it gets interesting.
1. It took me an hour on public transport to cover the distance it took 20-25 minutes in a car.
2. It cost $15 in fares.

If we take fuel at $2.50 a litre, $15 is about 6l of fuel. At 7l/100km that’s about 85km of travel. The distance home is 25-30 km.

I thought public transport was supposed to be cheap and fast.
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September 10, 2024 1:36pm
- cmm
  
  Ah, but you forget all the other benefits of travelling in a bus:
  * Listening to free hiphop music from the person sitting three rows away.
  * Viewing the same people’s artwork on the seats.
  * If you’re lucky there might be some extra entertainment like an Asian boy having his face smashed in.
  * A week of sick due to picking up some virus.
  
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  September 10, 2024 5:05pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    * People picking their noses, rolling up the boogers, and sticking them on the curtains or seats (yes I’ve actually seen this). Another delight.
    
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    September 10, 2024 7:05pm
NothingLeft

Trump rape accuser E Jean Carrol the sex focused fiction writer awarded huge payout in NY civil trial against Trump on her hearsay department store dressing room rape accusation, with lots of contradicting evidence, is now accusing 13 other men of rape or sexual assault.

She really has the most dreadful luck doesn’t she?
https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1833263309266551289?s=61&t=dBbdqd_YOX7K8phCZrsUOQ

If ever you pay the dane-geld you’ll never be rid of the dane
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September 10, 2024 2:11pm
Taieri

An interesting book with many parallels with NZ.
“The Total State – How Liberal Democracies Become Tyrannies” by Auron MacIntyre.

The review can be found here:
https://theupheaval.substack.com/p/the-total-state-and-the-twilight
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September 10, 2024 2:40pm
NoFax

CathNews does a good job explaining situation in regard to the “Common Grace” letter to MPs regarding the Treaty Principles Bill https://cathnews.co.nz/2024/09/09/hundreds-of-christian-leaders-decry-treaty-principles-bill/

For me, it only matters that 2 current Bishops signed the letter which means 3 Bishops did not. Further, CathNews indicates that not everyone saw the text before “signing on” which I think will lead to some back-peddling in the next few days as the theology, history, and political theory is muddled to say the least. This letter, from at least a Catholic point of view, is blasphemous in that it makes something profane holy. The letter attributes the Treaty with holiness and considers the Treaty as a covenant. A covenant is not a mere agreement, rather, what each party has promised is binding regardless if the other party obeys – unlike a contract. Today we live under the New Covenant of Jesus Christ and only marriage as a sacrament is also a covenant.

To treaty the Treaty is also historical incorrect. All Treaties are subject to renegotiation and even abandonment. The Treaty was renegotiated very early on with the clause that Maori could only sell land to the Crown dropped. Therefore, we see straight away that the Treaty was not a sacred covenant but rather as a normal “run of the mill” agreement. An agreement that can and subject to change and modification when necessary. The idea that future generations must be bound by this agreement is preposterous and not fitting with anyone’s understanding of treaties prior or even today.

Now, David Seymour is also wrong in saying that the “Christian Leaders” are interfering in democracy. This is plainly wrong. Everyone in a democracy gets to express their opinion on any and all matters. Seymour is one of those atheists that think their position is impartial, unbiased, and the default. Therefore, anyone expressing a religious POV is out of bounds. Of course, he doesn’t see his worldview as a worldview. Everyone gets to express their political position and it always, and I mean always, grounded in a worldview.
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September 10, 2024 2:57pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  I was of the impression Seymour called them out for acting and speaking as church leaders rather than normal voting citizens.
  
  As such if this is so they should not be using the ‘church’ as a fulcrum to lever a political message……
  
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  September 10, 2024 3:44pm
  - MCōs
    
    The points of view of normal voting citizens don’t get reported
    One has to have some sort of point of difference, usually appropriate to the situation, to be reported.
    I’ve looked for a list of the Fab Four hundred to see who they are, but can’t find one
    
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    September 10, 2024 4:48pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Easy enough to find the letter and signatures:
      
      https://www.commongrace.nz/common-grace-actions/churchleadersletter
      
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      September 10, 2024 10:08pm
  - NoFax
    
    “Speaking as church leaders…” And?
    
    Yes, they get to speak as Church leaders which is no different that speaking for any group. The idea that there is only “normal voting citizens” is a political point of view that I don’t agree with – quite a French Revolution idea. I believe in different power centres in our society and Parliament is one, an important one, but it is only one. If it is only Parliament then we live in a totalitarianism where Parliament is involved in everything or the totality of our lives.
    
    The idea that there are religious spheres and there are political spheres (or “Non-overlapping Magisteriums) is a political point of view that I disagree with. You don’t have to agree with the “Church Leaders” (as I do) but to want to “deplatform” someone or a group is undemocratic
    
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    September 10, 2024 5:59pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      440 is a useful number for legacy media and the activists at Common Grace to beat up on Seymour, but is a little meaningless really.
      
      While they can sign as church leaders, just remember that there are thousands of church leaders who have not signed this letter. There are many hundreds of thousands of church goers that have not signed this letter.
      
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      September 10, 2024 10:17pm
  - sherp
    
    gGood think in NZ there is separation of church and state and even if they are speaking as a collective it means diddly squat
    
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    September 10, 2024 6:34pm
    - NoFax
      
      So what do you think separation of Church and State mean? If it means that Christians are not allowed to speak then that’s not separation of Church and State but rather the State imposing itself upon the Church and that’s totalitarianism.
      
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      September 10, 2024 11:03pm
Swifty

Well there you have it. Older Asian women, no doubt slightly built, by themselves, targeted again – and leaving them with life-changing injuries.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/woman-seriously-injured-following-carjacking-in-henderson/WMQQU6MIPZEVBPRROWAMIW277A/

Hyenas. Jackals.

Preying in the weak.
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September 10, 2024 3:54pm
- MCōs
  
  If someone wanted to pinch my car, or just about anything else of an inanimate nature, they can have the bloody thing.
  
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  September 10, 2024 4:25pm
  - Swifty
    
    This could have been your missus MCos.
    
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    September 10, 2024 5:38pm
  - Ghost
    
    Agree, nothing is worth being assaulted or killed for. It’s insured, just take it
    
    1 2
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    September 10, 2024 5:54pm
    - sherp
      
      Yea no need to be Peter Blake… too soon?
      
      1 0
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      September 10, 2024 6:37pm
    - greybeard
      
      Insured ? You must be joking !
      I will bet my left nut that many cars on the road today are (a) not insured , (b) not registered and (c) not warranted.
      Or any combination of the above.
      
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      September 10, 2024 6:40pm
      - MCōs
        
        Mine is all of the above and I certainly wouldn’t be trying to prevent someone inside slamming the door
        
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        September 10, 2024 8:38pm
- DimChappie
  
  Something a bit strange about this report. The carjacking happened Sunday evening yet we are only finding out now. Police usually release such news pretty fast don’t they? Elderly Asian woman maimed and no description of the 3 people police are speaking to. MMmmmm
  
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  September 10, 2024 4:39pm
  - kowtow
    
    Gate keeping the bad news .
    
    Too much at one time might upset the plebs.
    
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    September 10, 2024 5:41pm
- cmm
  
  You mean it wasn’t little old Asian women doing the carjacking?
  
  Silly me.
  
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  September 10, 2024 5:00pm
- AitchW
  
  That poor woman’s wife has been irrevocably changed. The (insert epithet here) who took her car and maimed her will never, ever be punished in a way which goes anywhere near reflecting the damage they have caused. I’d be surprised if they do any jail time. Neither they nor their peers will have any sympathy or remorse for their actions, in fact they will likely be feted within their circle.
  What do we, as a society, have to do to stop this barbaric behaviour and keep it stopped?
  
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  September 10, 2024 5:53pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    It would be sad if the perp had an accident.
    
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    September 10, 2024 7:09pm
- sherp
  
  Another “accident” that the tax payers will be picking up the tab for through ACC
  
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  September 10, 2024 6:35pm
Conservatarian

Haiti is back in the news!

Springfield, Ohio, a small Rust Belt city, has had its population swell from 60k to 80k in just four years since 2020. The 20k is solely attributable to migrants, mostly from Haiti. Haitian migrants have been flooding into the US, but they first go to Colombia and walk into Panama through the Darien Gap, and then they get on the NGO-sponsored transports north and are fully kitted out with surplus “Biden 2020” t-shirts for the journey.

The Border Czar, or the President, whoever that person is or people are, dealt with the problem by dispersing them around the country. Some went to lib shitholes like Queens in NYC. Some went to red shitholes like Springfield, Ohio.

The residents of Springfield, Ohio, are being enriched by diversity but are also “noticing things”.
You can enjoy the gentle description of elements of this story from lib bible NPR:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/ohio-city-with-haitian-migrant-influx-thrust-into-political-spotlight

I remember when a certain orange man told the unvarnished truth about the quality of Haitian migrants. That was before we learned earlier this year about the warlord, known as BBQ, who effectively runs the country.

I guess the Border Czar, or the President, whoever that person is or people are, will take care of the problem.
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September 10, 2024 4:18pm
Ghost

Well done Shane

Māori and Pacific young people in Hawke’s Bay are no longer eligible for free GP and nurse visits based on ethnicity, after the health minister intervened.

Article
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September 10, 2024 4:21pm
cmm

A few days ago we were having a bit of a discussion about whether morality is subjective or not.

IMHO, here’s an excellent example for discussion.

“He’s unfaithful and has outdated views on gender roles. But John Hope Muchirahondo is also charismatic, kind and fun, and is not a sexual predator, his defence says.”

Saying he is unfaithful and has outdated gender views is very much an assessment from a mainline Western value set. Since the jury (I assume there is one) are mostly Westerners that is going to be an assessment that would fit with their worldview.

But for an African, being faithful does not rank highly. Multi-partner marriage is common. Using prostitutes is very common. This is a large part of the reason HIV and Monkeypox are rife in Africa.

The same applies to “outdated views on gender roles” . Sure, maybe outdated by Western standards. By African standards they are far from outdated.

In Africa, over 50% or women are raped – many raped more than once. That’s hardly considered a big issue. It is part of life.

“[There is a] different attitude towards sex than we might expect in this country. Not that men force themselves on women, but, as you’ve heard, this concept that women would traditionally play hard to get with men chasing them, is part of flirtation,” Williams said. The law was no different for Muchirahondo, but his conduct must be viewed in that context, his lawyer said.

The lawyer is trying to do two things which are in opposition:
* Try not to paint Africans as having a culture of rape (which they certainly do).
* Simultaneously trying to use the cultural factors as a bit of a get-out-of-jail card.

Ultimately there are cultural value differences between Africa and the West. We consider different behaviour OK.

In no way should that make African behaviour acceptable in the West – no matter who practices it.

ie. I don’t care what you can get away with back home. It doesn’t fly here. FIorFO

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350409256/crown-says-hes-monster-defence-says-its-cultural-misunderstanding
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September 10, 2024 4:58pm
NZer In Exile

Green New Deal/ Net-Zero as it stands is the road to ruin.

Here’s why:

Debunking Green Energy Myths w/Prof Simon Michaux
From the Peak Prosperity Channel:
https://odysee.com/@Chris_Martenson:2/OTC_Simon_MichauxHB:e

This is long but totally worth listening to.

Key take-aways; There are simply not enough of the metals required. The cost of buffering (aka backup) for unreliables would be astronomical even if we could scrape together the required metals in time (we can’t).
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September 10, 2024 6:49pm

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