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September 1, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 01 September 2024

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General Debate

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Yvette

The country may need to ACT now anycase?

From an RNZ article: Sovereignty debate split on party lines
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/526451/sovereignty-debate-split-on-party-lines

ChatGPT
Here’s a list of individuals mentioned in the article along with their views on whether Māori ceded sovereignty to the Crown in 1840:

Yes, Māori Ceded Sovereignty:
1 Christopher Luxon (Prime Minister)
◦ Believes Māori ceded sovereignty to the Crown.
2 David Seymour (ACT Leader)
◦ Believes the Treaty was about giving sovereignty to the British Crown.
3 Winston Peters (New Zealand First Leader)
◦ Cites Sir Āpirana Ngata’s thesis, stating Māori ceded sovereignty.
4 Judith Collins (Attorney-General)
◦ Agrees with the Prime Minister’s view that Māori ceded sovereignty.
5 Tama Potaka (Minister for Māori Development)
◦ Agrees with the Prime Minister’s view that Māori ceded sovereignty.
6 Chris Bishop (Housing Minister)
◦ States that the Crown has sovereignty over New Zealand, implying Māori ceded sovereignty.

No, Māori Did Not Cede Sovereignty:
1 Chris Hipkins (Labour Leader)
◦ Believes Māori did not cede sovereignty, but that sovereignty was taken.
2 Chlöe Swarbrick (Greens Co-leader)
◦ States that Māori did not cede sovereignty, referencing the Te Paparahi o te Raki Waitangi Tribunal report.
3 Debbie Ngarewa-Packer (Māori Party Co-leader)
◦ States that Māori did not cede sovereignty.
4 Ngāti Hine and Ngāti Manu (Northern Iwi)
◦ Reject the Prime Minister’s statement, stating that Māori did not cede sovereignty.
5 Professor Claire Charters (University of Auckland)
◦ Argues that the Crown claimed sovereignty but that Māori did not cede it.
6 Carwyn Jones (Te Wānanga o Raukawa Head Lecturer)
◦ Believes Māori did not cede sovereignty, pointing out differences in Treaty translations.
______

Former Labour Prime Minister David Lange observed:

“Democratic government can accommodate Māori political aspirations in many ways … What it cannot do is acknowledge the existence of a separate sovereignty. As soon as it does that, it isn’t a democracy.”

Willie Jackson has dismissed the notion that Maori chiefs ceded sovereignty in 1840 as “laughable,” further fuelling division and confusion. In contrast, National Party leader Christopher Luxon, Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters and David Seymour – the leaders of all the parties in the Coalition Government – have reaffirmed the Crown’s sovereignty.

Disagreements about New Zealand’s founding document should concern us all.
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/don-brash-hipkins-dangerous-statement-on-māori-not-ceding-sovereignty

So there now one side that says ‘Yes, Maori ceded sovereignty’ and another side that says ‘No, they didn’t.’

And because of the way speculation and agitation has turned, as indicated above, the first ACT “principle” – the Government’s right to govern – has become not a matter for reasoned discussion, but an increasingly necessary issue to be confirmed one way or the other.

Have those protesting ACT’s proposed ‘principles’, actually provoked a position where the first anticipated principle actually needs immediate attention and resolution?

Is the New Zealand Government legitimate?
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September 1, 2024 8:02am
- PurplePen
  
  Whether Maori ceded sovereignty or not, they were conquered, just not in the traditional manner of outright warefare and subjugation.
  
  Having read William Colenso’s diary from the ToW signing, Kohimarama conference minutes, section 71 of the 1852 NZ Constitution Act, Sir Apirana Ngata, I’m leaning towards this:
  
  Maori chiefs ceded sovereignty but retained tinorangatiratanga (is that spelt right?). The tinorangatiratanga being the chief’s right to continue to govern their own people and their dealings with other maori tribes. How that works in practice today I have no idea. I suspect there would be very few maori that would let themselves be governed by any Maori chief today. In fact the maori king is possibly the only chief left?
  
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  September 1, 2024 9:38am
  - Paulus
    
    Tainui King – many other Tribes cannot stand it such as much larger tribes like Ngapuhi.
    There is no love between them and Tainui whether they have a so called King or n0t.
    Replacement will be interesting next week.
    
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    September 1, 2024 2:40pm
    - T for Tim
      
      Both sons have extensive criminal records so thats a good start right.
      
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      September 1, 2024 8:11pm
- Clyde
  
  Those East Polynesian tribes knew full well that unless they ceded sovereignty they would have been no more. These latter day revisionists of history can choose to accept reality or they will face a severely rising backlash. I’d suggest that most New Zealanders are sick to the back teeth of what is peddled up to them by a compliant media. The coalition Government needs to do a few simple things really quickly. Make it plain that the current Government is the only legitimate sovereign body in this country and then dismantle all of the quasi legal entitities like the wretched Waitangi Tribunal to make it plain to all citizens that this is the way that it is.
  
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  September 1, 2024 9:38am
  - PurplePen
    
    While they’re at it, why the hell is there a Pacific Island Affairs ministry. Other race groups make up a larger percentage of NZ but we don’t have a ministry for Irish, or Chinese, or just Asian or European. Another ministry to put on the bonfire.
    
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    September 1, 2024 9:49am
    - pdm
      
      Or for we Scots – Dunedin probably wouldn’t exist but for us. lol.
      
      ps. I have only been to Dunedin once.
      
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      September 1, 2024 10:45am
    - Surely Knott
      
      Agree if special rights are granted based on te Tiri to to Maori then why are Pacifica awarded special rights? If it is because what we are aiming for is equality then why aren’t African and Middle eastern countries measured as seperate ethnicities. Why are all other nations lumped together as Asia or European and yet Pacifica defines their ethnicity separately for each individual country.
      
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      September 1, 2024 12:56pm
  - Yvette
    
    Clyde – The coalition Government needs to do a few simple things really quickly. Make it plain that the current Government is the only legitimate sovereign body in this country …
    
    I totally agree with that. In the context of the doubt now existing, pass what is needed to confirm Government legitimacy, property protection, and every New Zealanders equality of rights and responsibilities – without reference to the Treaty –
    
    Clyde … and then dismantle all of the quasi legal entities like the wretched Waitangi Tribunal to make it plain to all citizens that this is the way that it is.
    
    Assert The UN Declaration of Rights,
    then come back for those parts of the Treaty which do not comply with that
    
    – like, not just freedom of religion, but also freedom from religion (te Ao Maori, ‘religious worldview’ that is)
    
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    September 1, 2024 10:24am
  - Paulus
    
    Can’t remember the date when I voted for the Waitangi Tribunal, and the enormous costs there are within it.
    
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    September 1, 2024 2:41pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  The Emperor’s New Clothes moment is that they are us.
  
  All Maoris are also pakeha. Pretending that this is not so is a genealogical nonsense.
  
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  September 1, 2024 9:54am
  - Cantabrian
    
    Helmut Modlik, the CEO of Ngati Toa, is a good example of Maori who are really non-Maori (I wont use the P word on pronciple,) His father is an Austrian who came out in the 1950s to build houses. He says that Ngati Toa allow non-Maori to join the Iwi on marriage, without having any Maori blood.
    Talk about rorting the system!
    
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    September 1, 2024 11:29am
    - Paulus
      
      Money, Money, Money, is what it is all about –
      Your’s and my tax payments.
      
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      September 1, 2024 2:43pm
  - Notsofast
    
    Debbie Ngarewa Packer I believe is 12% Maori and 88% Pakeha.
    I guess she is knocking herself out lol.
    
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    September 1, 2024 2:53pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  No NZ PM has agreed that Māori did not cede sovereignty, including Hipkins, now the vapid twerp knows better, just another reason to keep Labour greens and TPM out, for Labour to get back in, then greens and TPM will be in n cabinet. What a scary prospect for any level headed hard working tax payer that is.
  
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  September 1, 2024 10:02am
  - Damocles11
    
    Hipkins is acting bitter and twisted that he is no longer PM, and he is also acting like a man who feels that he could be rolled at any moment and has nothing to lose, and will just say anything now. I have cultivated an intense dislike for Hipkins, I can see no redeeming features in him whatsover, just an arrogant, reckless, and completely worthless individual.
    
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    September 1, 2024 10:49am
    - Paulus
      
      He should wake up and suggest to his Partner that he is on borrowed time and that is reducing rapidly.
      Bye Chippy !
      
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      September 1, 2024 2:44pm
  - pdm
    
    Hipkins is trying to get back the 6 seats he lost to The Maori Party last October.
    
    Dumb move because if he is successful the Maori Party are `goneburgers’ at the next election apart from maybe 1 or 2 seats and the ambitions of the left are stuffed too.
    
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    September 1, 2024 10:49am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Let’s hope he wins some back and there will be no three seat over hang
      
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      September 1, 2024 10:58am
- Anthony Melchett
  
  If they didn’t cede it then, they should cede it now before there is a war that would wipe them out forever.
  
  Do not bite the hand that feeds.
  
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  September 1, 2024 10:23am
  - Damocles11
    
    That’s why the government departments are being loaded up with the 3 P’s and ‘Te Tiriti’, to have the state captured by the Left and separatists if it does come to civil war.
    
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    September 1, 2024 11:50am
  - GJM
    
    A fair amount of the Army is Maori, far more than their share of the population. 30% rings a bell. Traditionally, they have done well in the armed forces, including some VCs.
    It would be interesting to know the views of some on Maori sovereignty and what it means.
    
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    September 1, 2024 8:11pm
    - An Old Kiwi
      
      Upon joining the military, everyone has to pledge loyalty to – the Crown.
      
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      September 1, 2024 9:40pm
- Swifty
  
  If the Labour and Green caucuses really believe the Crown’s sovereignty has an illegitimate foundation and they had the merest shred of integrity they should immediately resign en masse.
  
  But of course they won’t – and what does that tell New Zealanders?
  
  And as for the Maori Party, they must be the greatest hypocrites on the planet. Taking their living from a body and system they scream as illegitimate. They’re up there with Anjem Choudary, living off the British taxpayer for decades while calling for the downfall of western civilisation and for the Islamic flag to fly over Whitehall.
  
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  September 1, 2024 10:48am
  - Jethrod
    
    Oh what great comments!
    
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    September 1, 2024 11:22am
- Taieri
  
  Is the New Zealand Government legitimate?
  ———–
  
  If, as Chloe Swarbricks of this world claim, the Maoris did not surrender their “sovereignty”, then the NZ Parliament is just a discussion club and its members, including the said Chloe Swarbrick, are just impostors, plain and simple. Taken to the logical conclusion, it means that the “laws” created by this “parliament” are null and void and NZ as a country doesn’t exist.
  
  Should there be a compulsory intelligence test before the prospective MPs can take their seat in the Parliament? With the minimum IQ, set at, say, 100…?
  
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  September 1, 2024 12:28pm
- KH
  
  The government has sovereignty. Maori gave it up actively and thankfully.
  When somebody tries to run their fantasy arguments. (translation etc versions etc. show them this.
  https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/dr-lawrie-knight-fact-checking-waitangi-tribunal-finding
  
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  September 1, 2024 1:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Democrats to replace Kamala after terrible CNN interview?

https://babylonbee.com/news/democrats-consider-replacing-kamala-harris-with-more-coherent-joe-biden?
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September 1, 2024 8:06am
Chuck Bird

This is very interesting. The title tells it all. It is just over an hour. John Stossel interviews Charles Murray.

The Full Charles Murray: Race and IQ, Government Welfare, and Crime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vBLFchXCGY&t=699s
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September 1, 2024 8:06am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Chuck, thank you for bringing that to our attention.
  Possibly such a lengthy piece would be better suited to a wet Sunday.
  What a wonderful speaker.
  
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  September 1, 2024 9:01am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Proven fraud but no action. Will they do the same in November?

https://freedomeagledaily.com/theteapartydaily/ga-ag-refuses-to-investigate-fulton-countys-massive-proven-2020-fraud/?
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September 1, 2024 8:09am
Bridgenag

Copied from an American post

“American Association of Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS).

Since 1943, AAPS has been dedicated to the highest ethical standards of the Oath of Hippocrates and to preserving the sanctity of the patient-physician relationship and the practice of private medicine.

The AAPS is a pretty amazing organization.

As an example of their policies, let me share the AAPS policy on DEI found on their website:

1. Our country has been besieged by the Marxist-based ideology, known as “Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion,” which is infiltrating the practice of medicine through medical schools, biomedical research, hiring practices, and government regulations. Intrusion of DEI ideology into medical education and medical care is dangerous for patients and compels AAPS to issue this statement.

2. The ethical foundation of medical care dates back to the Oath of Hippocrates and obliges physicians to provide the best possible care individualized for each patient. Furthermore, safe, ethical, and high–quality care requires individuals who have the intellectual capacity, motivation, academic achievement, and moral compass to successfully negotiate medical school, training, and ultimately the responsibility of rendering care for their patients. DEI dogma promotes false ideology and mandates that are antithetical to these obligations and requirements.

3. Standards for students selected for medical school and postgraduate training, or for any physician, must be the same regardless of race, gender or other social metrics, and include a level of competence measured by academic achievement and standardized tests. Standards must not include adherence to, or promotion of, ideologies that contradict fundamental Hippocratic principles of medical ethics.

4. Patients must not be prioritized, or discriminated against, based on their race, gender or any other politically favored, or disfavored, status.

5. Our merit-based nation has been the most successful in history and has spent decades promoting equal opportunity for all citizens, celebrating achievement and supporting special needs. America has raised the standard of living for the greatest number of its people, while nations that embrace ideologies that disparage merit tend to decay into widespread poverty.

6. Vigorous and urgent actions must be launched to eliminate the destructive DEI ideology from every aspect of the medical profession before it is too late. Patients’ lives depend on it.”

Problems look familiar?
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September 1, 2024 8:15am
- Paulus
  
  Wow, how revealing and refreshing – I read it twice and like what it says.
  
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  September 1, 2024 8:27am
- MCōs
  
  It amazing alright
  It published a paper claiming Obama hypothesized his audience during his presidency campaign
  It published a paper claiming a link between abortion and breast cancer
  https://www.jpands.org/vol10no4/brind.pdf
  All sorts of other stuff
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons
  
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  September 1, 2024 9:27am
  - Taieri
    
    hypothesized
    ————
    ?
    
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    September 1, 2024 2:43pm
    - MCōs
      
      Hypnotized
      
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      September 1, 2024 5:52pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Democracy working in Texas. Gov Greg Abbott getting it sorted.

https://conservativeadvocacy.com/texas-acts-on-election-integrity-removes-over-1-million-ineligible-voters/?
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September 1, 2024 8:18am
data-mad

Children’s behavior has become worse in schools. This is commonly attributed to the pandemic. However the data aligns more with when the smacking law came in.

Is this behavior in schools because parents were told not to smack, but were not given advice on how to parent without it? Are we just seeing undisciplined children?
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September 1, 2024 8:21am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “but were not given advice on how to parent without it?”
  
  By who? Please don’t tell me you mean the government.
  
  I don’t know the answer but it is not simplistic like the “smacking law”.
  
  I’ll take a guess at one explanation. Increasingly, the parents producing the most children are the least capable of parenting. That means that a greater proportion of children are coming from dysfunctional families. Nothing to do with smacking.
  
  Here is an example of bad parenting from last week in Chistchurch. A woman, her friend and a young child decided that it was perfectly OK to visit Hagley Park and depart with a large quantity of flowers that they had picked.
  
  https://tinyurl.com/3uyfuuza
  
  [Mod. This photo is from Reddit so already in the public domain.]
  
  What is the flower girl going to be like at school? Her mother has taught her that she can do whatever she wants. ☹️
  
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  September 1, 2024 10:36am
  - Ghost
    
    I was listening to zb about that. They got a message from one of the public gardens in Christchurch that had on cctv someone going in late at night with a wheelie bin to steal, I can’t remember if it was flowers or plants.
    
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    September 1, 2024 10:44am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes I had heard that also. 😫
      
      Hagley Park is a wonderful resource. The flowers are for everyone to enjoy.
      
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      September 1, 2024 10:54am
  - sirknz
    
    Oh the irony of redditors lamenting about the downsides of socialism.
    
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    September 1, 2024 10:53am
  - Taieri
    
    That means that a greater proportion of children are coming from dysfunctional families.
    —————-
    
    The other day, the commentator “purple pen” mentioned a book, “Infantilised: How Our Culture Killed Adulthood” by Keith Hayward. I’ve just finished reading it. It confirmed what I’ve already suspected.
    
    Perhaps, “dysfunctional families” are not the sole culprit and there’s more to it?
    
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    September 1, 2024 12:37pm
- imalwaysright
  
  The antismacking law and abolition of corporal punishment in schools was integral to the implementation of the marxist regime.
  
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  September 1, 2024 10:37am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yeah I doubt that. I don’t think the world is worse off by stopping sadistic teachers beating students for often trivial reasons.
    
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    September 1, 2024 10:56am
    - newview
      
      You might be right in one sense Ben but once the kids worked out they could walk all over their teachers parents were next on the list. Then they carry it on as adults and turn into undisciplined hopeless parents. Having had corporal punishment that did me no harm in well attended disciplined schools I’ve since observed a steady decline in behaviour of both adults and children.
      
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      September 1, 2024 12:09pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      I was in the education system (Pupil) when corporal punishment was legal.
      
      BY, Not sure where you got
      
      “”sadistic teachers beating students for often trivial reasons””
      
      Certainly there was none of the bad behaviour, physical assaults I read about in schools today.
      
      ie Actions had consequences.
      We knew what would cause the strap or the cane.
      
      As always, then and now, I push boundaries to evaluate the world around me. Often a Mod interprets the “”rules”‘ differently to me. That’s life. 🙂
      
      I was familiar with the leather strap on the hand or the cane on the arse at both primary(strap) and secondary(cane)
      
      PS. The girls wanted the corporal punishment option as it was all over in a matter of minutes, versus them spending lunchtimes/after school in detention and restricted access to sports etc.
      
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      September 1, 2024 12:32pm
      - AitchW
        
        Funnily enough I see similarities between the anti smacking legislation and the last government’s obsession with banning exploration for fossil fuels. Both were rushed through with little or no public input and both were promulgated long before any thought was given to the consequences of their enactment.
        
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        September 1, 2024 8:45pm
      - Ghost
        
        Rushed? Branford’s bill was drawn from the ballot in 2005. It had its first reading in 2005. The law was passed in 2007. Over 1700 submissions.
        
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        September 1, 2024 9:19pm
    - ISeeRed
      
      The only thing creepier than adults getting physical with minors are the people who defend them. Ironically, they’ll also be against bullying.
      
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      September 1, 2024 3:07pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        If you are insinuating I am creepie then I suggest you get out more. Insulting me achieves nothing.
        
        Wishy washy lefties in western Society think the way you seem to.
        
        Check the rest of the world, who get on with reality.
        
        What has your attitude done to improve society, especially in the education system….
        
        Buggar all IMHO.
        
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        September 1, 2024 3:36pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Trouble is antismacking and corporal punishment in schools are too often linked to bashing, instead of simple discipline. There is no respect taught or learned.
    
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    September 1, 2024 11:04am
    - imalwaysright
      
      “There is no respect taught or learned”
      
      Correct, and that includes self respect.
      
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      September 1, 2024 11:34am
    - Ghost
      
      Respect isn’t taught or gained by whipping some kid.
      
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      September 1, 2024 11:43am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        There’s a world of difference between a couple of straps and ‘whipping some kid’, just as there is between chastising your child with a couple of smacks on the bottom and beating your kid to a pulp.
        
        I’ve done the former (before the law change), but never the latter – and never even had the slightest inclination to want to. In fact, I came away from smacking my kids feeling uneasy about the whole episode, for all that it generally got the desired message across.
        
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        September 1, 2024 1:24pm
      - Ghost
        
        Strapping did not work in school. Every day or week it was always the same children being sent to the headmasters office for their whipping. It didn’t install anything in them e
        
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        September 1, 2024 1:27pm
      - newview
        
        Did it not work on you ghost. You may be right about respect, but you sure learned that you were made accountable for your actions. Worked on me.
        
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        September 1, 2024 1:40pm
      - Ghost
        
        Never got the strap or the cane, and as it was always the same kids going to the headmasters office to get it, no it didn’t teach them anything. Accountable, that’s a joke. I remember one obese kid who used to steal other kids lunches, he’d get the strap daily. It wasn’t until a teacher started bringing him lunch that he stopped doing that.
        
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        September 1, 2024 3:16pm
      - Jack5
        
        At secondary school, caning was cowardly, humiliating punishment inflicted by middle-aged guys, usually flabby fellows.
        
        It’s a wonder pupils didn’t turn on them.
        
        School caning was as outdated as the cat o’ nine tails in the navy and army.
        
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        September 1, 2024 5:36pm
    - ISeeRed
      
      Yes, but a law change was unnecessary. There were no public marches in the streets demanding this.
      
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      September 1, 2024 3:08pm
      - lifesgood
        
        Thanks for nothing, Sue Bradford.
        
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        September 1, 2024 4:06pm
- MCōs
  
  Corporal punishment was banned in NZ schools 34yrs ago and everywhere 17yrs later.
  Behaviour deteriorated in schools much later, increasingly in the last couple of years
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/report-finds-nz-students-among-worst-behaved-in-the-oecd-says-a-more-national-approach-is-required/AHGAZ7PKKRCJLB3DOWORKK4W7Y/
  These days if a teacher legally or not attempted to cane some 100kg schoolboy he’d be likely to come off second best with little backing from the parents because the times ain’t the same anymore
  
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  September 1, 2024 6:54pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350398966/outcry-after-hospital-denies-new-mums-toast-and-tea-after-giving-birth

Reading this, two paragraphs stood out for me and did more to explain the situation than all the rest.

“He said much of the food was being eaten by staff and patient visitors: “In our current fiscal environment, it is untenable for these practices to continue.””

and

“They said the edict also failed “to understand the comforting nature of the familiarity of warm toast or that we are meeting Te Tiriti obligations through providing manaakitanga when we feed extended whānau after a long day, or feed ‘hangry’ whānau and de-escalate tricky situations”.

So firstly, staff and visitors are scoffing the food budgetted for the patients !
and secondly,
maori families have some sort of feeding priority and rights because of tiredness, family members who are angry and hungry and because there could be “tricky” ( read violent and confrontational ) situations !
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September 1, 2024 8:23am
- John Loveridge
  
  So… under the ever-fluid obligations of Te Treaty you have to feed the swarming whanau or they’ll get “hangry” and do violence?
  
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  September 1, 2024 8:30am
  - pdm
    
    Nah JL – they bring in KFC and large bottles of fizzy soft drinks.
    
    BTW when I was last in hospital, about 3 years ago they did not serve toast for breakfast. I cannot remember the reason why though.
    
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    September 1, 2024 9:51am
    - sirknz
      
      Cuzzies had a mean feed?
      
      5 0
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      September 1, 2024 10:55am
- MCōs
  
  When I was in hospital both as an in patient and as an out patient in the chemotherapy ward there were basic facilities for visitors to prepare tea and coffee and probably toast.
  
  4 8
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  September 1, 2024 8:56am
  - Damocles11
    
    Probably? You mean there was a toaster there, don’t you. I’ve never rocked up to a hospital as a visitor and expected to scoff free food. A hospital is an environment for caring for the sick, it’s not a soup kitchen. This country is going downhill fast because socialists and separatists are always on the scrounge, they are bleeding this country dry.
    
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    September 1, 2024 9:14am
    - MCōs
      
      What I’m saying there were places where people could go and make a cup a tea/coffee and probably toast some bread they’ve brought in. If not a visitor could always bring the toaster in too and chew up the taxpayers electricity
      BTW
      There’s a gym there too where the physio can torture people like me
      Apart from that the whole experience is a barrel of laughs, said nobody ever!
      
      3 6
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      September 1, 2024 9:53am
      - Cassandra
        
        I sympathise with your health problems, MCos, but you’re straying off the topic. It is racist to provide food for one race because they are angry. BTW I share your second stated complaint. Not much fun, is it?
        
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        September 1, 2024 10:02am
  - Ghost
    
    Our ed will give patients and visitors a coffee/tea and a sandwich if you are in there a while. Usually done by the friends of St John, but if they aren’t there a nurse will get you a sandwich and drink
    
    5 3
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    September 1, 2024 9:23am
    - PurplePen
      
      I would have thought any nurse, with what we’re told, is way too overloaded to get anyone except a patient a drink and a sandwich. Maybe that’s part of the problem, they’re overloaded because they’re getting visitors a drink and a sandwich and singing karakia at shift handovers.
      
      6 1
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      September 1, 2024 9:55am
      - Ghost
        
        Walking 20 seconds to the staff room, grabbing a drink or and a sandwich for someone who have spent hours with a sick, injured or dying loved one is not overloading them.
        
        4 9
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        September 1, 2024 10:13am
    - Anthony Melchett
      
      But if you are white you have to go to the Cafe?
      
      5 1
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      September 1, 2024 1:50pm
      - Ghost
        
        No. I’ve never seen staff treat anyone based on their ethnic group different in the ed.
        
        2 0
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        September 1, 2024 3:00pm
- Swifty
  
  “In any fiscal environment, it is untenable for taxpayers paying to feed patient visitors to continue.”
  
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  September 1, 2024 9:02am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Are there still defined visiting times? It used to be for about an hour mid afternoon, in which case feeding visitors isn’t needed, nor should it be expected. Exception for parents of toddlers.
    Hospitals are for patients and staff, get rid of the hangers-on.
    
    7 2
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    September 1, 2024 9:33am
    - Ghost
      
      Father’s are allowed here with their wife and baby at any time. Everyone else it’s from 7.30am until 8pm
      
      2 0
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      September 1, 2024 9:40am
      - John Loveridge
        
        Father? Wife? Baby? Are these terms even permitted nowadays?
        
        16 0
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        September 1, 2024 9:48am
    - MCōs
      
      When I was in hospital I was told they were short staffed and appreciated family coming in who helped out. My wife slept beside me on a window seat every night.
      Didn’t get any hospital food!
      
      5 1
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      September 1, 2024 10:02am
      - All_on_Red
        
        And why should she?
        Usually there is a Cafe on the ground floor
        Or- bring your own food.
        I intend having a very nice Corn beef and tomato sandwich for lunch
        It isnt hard
        
        7 1
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        September 1, 2024 11:08am
      - Colville
        
        My brother is in having had his hip redone after an infection.
        He got uber eats delivered to the downstairs cafe so had a burger and a coke… he (like me) pukes if he sees fish pie!
        
        3 0
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        September 1, 2024 12:11pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        Was this a hospital in New Zealand or Thailand?
        
        1 0
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        September 1, 2024 3:10pm
- kowtow
  
  ‘or feed ‘hangry’ whānau and de-escalate tricky situations”.’
  
  There’s an awful lot in that sentence , innit .
  We’re talking about hospital visitors , where and whn did everything go so wrong.
  
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  September 1, 2024 9:54am
  - AitchW
    
    kowtow, I suspect that they’re ‘hangry’ (a cute way of saying aggressive and potentially violent) because they’ve spent all day drinking booze, smoking dope and/or P. Not all families, and not limited to one race but the one time we were unfortunate enough to visit Waikato Hospital A&E at 6pm on a weeknight we were pretty much the only white faces there.
    Middle of winter and there were whole families there clogging the system up for one family member with a bit of a sniffle….
    
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    September 1, 2024 10:22am
- Anthony Melchett
  
  As always, no money for food but enough for smokes.
  
  12 1
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  September 1, 2024 10:26am
  - Damocles11
    
    This is literally the case, because we know that part-Maori smoking rates are much higher than Pakeha smoking rates. Yet it has become ‘racist’ to state the truth. If Maori were to put as much energy into sorting out their many problems as they do into endlessly seeking confrontation, they would be in a far better place in terms of their health and crime stats.
    
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    September 1, 2024 10:54am
    - Anthony Melchett
      
      That’s all we want.
      
      Not forcing their language into the e glush language and pretending that’s going to help
      
      7 1
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      September 1, 2024 12:20pm
artemisia

Change at the top of the water services regulator.

Minister Simeon Brown records their exit with what can only be called faint praise – “I would like to thank the outgoing chair of the Authority’s Board Dame Karen Poutasi and outgoing Chair of the Māori Advisory Group Tipa Mahuta for their respective service to the Board and Group.”

Maybe this, on the record, was relevant to the change.

“Tipa Mahuta. I really trust in our mātauranga because it’s modern science that will catch it up.”
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September 1, 2024 8:31am
- John Loveridge
  
  Don’t fret for the good ladies. Each will soon resurface with another comfortable public-funded sinecure.
  
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  September 1, 2024 8:34am
  - AitchW
    
    Pfft, they’ll be on another half dozen boards already…
    
    6 0
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    September 1, 2024 10:24am
- Yvette
  
  “Tipa Mahuta (I really trust in our mātauranga because it’s modern science that will catch it up) has gone, but the Maori Advisory Board which she Chaired, holding that view, remains and unless the law has changed, that Board, te Puna, dictates policy to the Water Regulator.
  
  While some protested the proposed co-governance of Entities lower down the 3 Waters levels, te Puna held total governance without very many noticing it.
  Does it still?
  
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  September 1, 2024 8:50am
  - pdm
    
    As I said yesterday, or was it Friday – both Te Puna and Taumata Arowai should go.
    
    Both seem to be unnecessary hangovers from 3/5/10/All/Mahuta waters.
    
    5 0
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    September 1, 2024 9:55am
    - Yvette
      
      Sadly the website for the Water Regulator (Taumata Arowai, without English title) has been revised, seemingly by moving all the te Ao Maori religious ‘world’view presentation on from being the Home page, to one page ‘further in’.
      https://www.taumataarowai.govt.nz/te-mana-o-te-wai/
      
      5 1
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      September 1, 2024 10:39am
      - ISeeRed
        
        I thought this agency was being scrapped? (Could be wrong.) Their bilingual approach is, as usual, typical bullshit. Maori version is all Maori, English version sprinkled with Maori words with no English explanation or substitution. FFS. I’m so sick of the te reo tyrants.
        
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        September 1, 2024 3:14pm
The Other Rusty

How pathetic. What sort of imbecile considers tea and toast a part of meeting their obligations to a treaty? And what sort of organisation employs and encourages such imbeciles? And what sort of media organisation thinks this is remotely newsworthy?

Rhetorical questions by the way 😁
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September 1, 2024 8:31am
- ISeeRed
  
  Imbeciles? No, they’re not stupid. Cunning, yes. They know they can keep pushing that barrow of white guilt for some time yet.
  
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  September 1, 2024 3:16pm
Scooter

What’s going on with all the stabbings lately especially in the UK and Europe. 2 people dead at the Notting Hill Carnival last weekend (most in 20 yrs), a 13 year old a few days ago UK, 3 dead in Solingen Germany, an Italian lady this month, 3 children in the UK. Most (except Notting Hill and 13 yr old as no one caught so far) are of immigrant family or refugee status.
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September 1, 2024 8:52am
- kowtow
  
  Following the NH “festival” in the UK media …….
  
  For years it’s been a huge problem . Assaults of the most degrading type on police ( and yet te media will always treat us to imagery of Happy Bobbies twerking etc) robbery , stabbings , theft and apparently the locals shut up shop , put up shutters and bugger off for it.
  
  It’s also reported they have knife security screening to get in ….but it’s voluntary whether you go through . As if your average machete weilding thug would …….
  
  And a s with all these “diversity” fun activities , it’s been said if this was a say “footballer” event cough cough , it would have been banned on safety grounds years ago . Innit.
  
  5 1
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  September 1, 2024 10:05am
  - Colville
    
    Stanley knives have been a go to tool for thugs in the UK for ever. Blades are not a new phenomenon.
    
    5 0
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    September 1, 2024 12:16pm
- AitchW
  
  It bugs me beyond words that they describe boat people as refugees. Move Manus Island to the North Sea and put them there.
  There must be an uninhabited island on the north west coast of Scotland where they could build a camp. Toss the next few boat loads up there and watch the boats stop coming!
  Sadly the Labour government lacks the wit and the will to act decisively and firmly. I fear for my old homeland. The ‘immigrants’ will soon force the closure of all the distilleries under Sharia law!
  
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  September 1, 2024 10:29am
  - Taieri
    
    There must be an uninhabited island on the north west coast of Scotland where they could build a camp. Toss the next few boat loads up there and watch the boats stop coming!
    ————
    
    Worked for Australia…
    
    7 1
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    September 1, 2024 12:40pm
- sherp
  
  Just remember if you think knife crime has anything to do with uncontrolled migration you’re a far right racist and face arrest and reeducation.
  
  6 2
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  September 1, 2024 11:23am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Be careful Comrade, its not safe to notice things like this anymore – you’ll be accused of being a right-wing bigot and tossed in the slammer before you know it!
  
  Better stabbed to death than impolite, eh?
  
  3 1
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  September 1, 2024 1:00pm
- ISeeRed
  
  DIvErsity is our strength! We get to stab you then call you racist for noticing!
  
  2 1
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  September 1, 2024 3:20pm
- GJM
  
  Feel the diversity. 8f only there was some common theme to these problems?
  
  2 0
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  September 1, 2024 8:19pm
Damocles11

So many instances of handling errors, poor kicks, and bad discipline from the All Blacks in the Test. Beauden Barrett’s kicking around the park is terrible these days, his radar is way off. You can’t win matches being that inaccurate, the game was there for the taking by the AB’s and they just could not execute.
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September 1, 2024 9:06am
- MCōs
  
  You can’t win if the other side is better unless they slip a few bob to the fourth referee to look the other way when their bloke knocks on
  
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  September 1, 2024 9:35am
  - Anthony Melchett
    
    You blow a 10 poimt lead and then try to blame the ref?
    
    How about the forward pass in the lead up to the all blacks first try?
    
    Robertson showing signs of arrogance already by continuing to pick players out of position.
    
    Again, a wonderful advertisement for rugby league.
    
    3 3
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    September 1, 2024 10:32am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Have you seen just how bad the springbok knock on which was confirmed as a try was?
      
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      September 1, 2024 11:05am
      - Colville
        
        The ref can make a mistake, fair enough. But its not fair enough that a try wasnt looked at by the TMO to check it. All trys should be checked.
        
        5 0
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        September 1, 2024 12:18pm
      - Anthony Melchett
        
        It cant be a knock on because the video ref reviewed it.
        
        If anything it was a knock on by Barrett and you all missed the forward pass in the lead up!
        
        This was of course the same video ref that sent a player off earlier for getting within 5 meters of Sam Kane and causing him to drop the ball with an open try line in front of him. Kane at his best right there.
        
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        September 1, 2024 12:27pm
    - Zapper
      
      The referee clearly had a major impact, not just with that knock on. The ridiculous penalty count where he was only watch the breakdown for one team was a bigger factor. Similar to the last time we played them. It would be great to get a fair shake against them although one much assume they’ve had a decade worth of luck in the last year
      
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      September 1, 2024 12:33pm
      - Colville
        
        The Saffers getting the benefit of playing in Northern hemisphere and being used to a certain style of refereeing.
        
        We were too slow in adapting to a niggly ref.
        
        4 0
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        September 1, 2024 2:07pm
  - Damocles11
    
    If you mean that the other side made less errors (were better on the day) & that was reflected in the final score, I agree. If you mean that on any given those South African players are fundamentally better than the All Black ones, then I disagree. Put perhaps you watch a lot more rugby than me and have formed a view over time that that particular group of AB’s players are habitual bumblers.
    
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    September 1, 2024 11:02am
- pdm
  
  BB is and always has been a bench player. Along with Malcolm Marx from SA they have been the best in World Rugby for a few years.
  
  The AB’s missed a lot of counter attacking opportunities by not having Jordon at fullback.
  
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  September 1, 2024 9:57am
- imalwaysright
  
  I’m surprised Perenara had time in between his histrionics and amateur dramatics to pretend to be a half back.
  
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  September 1, 2024 1:20pm
  - Colville
    
    He is vegan. The blabbermouth goes with the lifestyle.
    
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    September 1, 2024 2:08pm
Scooter

It’s been 2 years since the body of Ariki Rugby found in a burnt out car. Incredibly when the police went to check they thought it was a sheep. Only 2 days later did a passerby look in and realise it’s human remains, hello how many sheep have long hair and wear a necklace? And wouldn’t any burnt out car raise alarm bells, like trying to get rid of evidence.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/ariki-rigby-murder-family-and-polices-ongoing-search-for-justice-two-years-on-from-brutal-killing/KNNKR7ZK6ND7ZDFHSFXUWU53RY/
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September 1, 2024 9:10am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Read on…and you realise that there is a very very nasty underbelly of NZ that seems untouchable.
  
  She has also previously gone public saying Ariki’s killers chopped off her hands and feet before putting her body in the car and setting it alight.
  
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  September 1, 2024 1:22pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  To all those Lefties who think that gangs are just another type of whanau:
  
  ————————————————————————-
  Anaherā [sister] has previously told the Herald she believed several gang-affiliated people were responsible for the killing. She believed “jealousy and drugs” were the motive.
  
  Police have previously spoken of how they believed people who knew exactly what happened were keeping quiet due to “loyalties”.
  
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  September 1, 2024 1:35pm
Damocles11

Sean Plunket is exactly right here. The non stop leaks and the whingeing to the PSA and CTU from anonymous ‘staff’ and ‘sources’…..it feels like the Unions are now able to use the MSM – particularly RNZ – to craft endless negative stories. The cosy intersection between Labour, the Unions, and the left wing unionised journalists is glaringly obvious, and an absolute farce to be honest. If it was an alignment of entities on the right, it would be called ‘a threat to democracy’.

https://x.com/SeanPlunket/status/1829986601558294628
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September 1, 2024 9:34am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  The non-stop leaks … the PSA, sponsored by Wellington Water …
  
  8 0
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  September 1, 2024 9:59am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  They can spout as much negative shit as they like. People will be noticing the daily good news of late. Interest rates down, inflation down, stolen taxes returned, seek job adverts up 3% in July, June tax take far higher than anticipated, and finally this week business confidence surged, this will be mirrored by public confidence.
  
  No way this will be a one term government as the economy improves
  
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  September 1, 2024 10:11am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

“Representative Cory Mills (R-FL) is a former Army sniper who smells a rat with the investigation into the Trump assassination attempt.”
SS refusing communication platforms offered, and refused the offer of a drone.
Is the Biden-Harris admin covering up the truth about the assassination attempt?

https://patriotpulse.net/an-army-sniper-told-jesse-watters-this-scary-fact-about-the-trump-assassination-attempt/?
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September 1, 2024 9:34am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOMq5rAkfxE
1 HOUR AGO: Elon Musk JUST DESTROYED Kiers Starmer “He Refuses To Listen”
Musk 1 Starmer 0.
Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel. Or in his case some who can go viral in seconds.
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September 1, 2024 9:38am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Of3VlFg5Q
The Great Colorado Apartment Battle as Venezuelan Illegals Terrorize Residents.
Imagine if you’re the owner of the apartment complex. You can’t make money because all the renters have been evacuated. The gang is most likely damaging your property. The police don’t do anything. And the government allows all this to happen while still expecting you to pay a shit ton of taxes.
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September 1, 2024 9:38am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Musk having a fight with Brazil over free speech.
Who will win this one?

https://feedsnorth.com/judge-shuts-down-x-platform/
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September 1, 2024 9:46am
- MCōs
  
  I hope it’s not Mister M
  Who does he think he is?
  The unelected sheriff of the world
  
  2 8
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  September 1, 2024 11:00am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The unelected sheriff of the World would be Trump!//
    
    Nah, all he is doing is promoting free speech.
    Censorship happened here in NZ. “If you don’t hear it from us then it’s not the truth” (or something) Jacinda Ardern!
    
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    September 1, 2024 11:25am
- sungsamning
  
  I hope its Elon Musk. But I don’t think it’ll be an easy fight.
  
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  September 1, 2024 9:48pm
Yvette

Lost in translation?

There is continual argument over what the Treaty actually says, particularly what the English translation might be of the ‘official indigenous’ Maori version, which Chiefs signed but was itself translated from the English drafts written by the English.

No one seems to mention that, as few of the Chiefs would read, the understanding of what they were signing would surely be by word of mouth, either Maori fluent English translators or the ‘Chinese Whispers’ of other Maori chiefs.

Who the hell knows what any of the Maori signatories understood of what they were signing, or the English of the Maori understanding?

Kiingi Tūheitia earlier this year said – “There’s no principles, the Treaty is written. That’s it.” *

– a Treaty he could read, but how many of those who signed it could read, and relied on what was explained to them, with whatever ‘lost in verbal translation’?

Just ’saying’

_____________
* https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/maori-king-calls-for-hope-over-protest-while-dismissing-govt-treaty-bill/M2EXZG3JLNHTPFKEEUFK7Z5QXY/
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September 1, 2024 10:50am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I don’t know how many people at Waitangi on 6 Feb 1840 could read – though the number who signed their name rather than ‘X’ or drew their moko is suggestive.
  
  What I do know is that Maori had a crying-out thirst for education, and by 1840 the missionaries had been in the North for nearly 30 years (remembering life expectancy at that time was 40-ish). Even those chiefs who couldn’t speak or read English would have had dealings with missionaries, traders, whalers and the RN. Remember also that Maori in those days had a strong oral culture, with likely better memories than we have today. It’s reported that there was vigorous debate within Maoridom about what the treaty meant, with some for and others against. To suggest that they didn’t know what they were signing, or that they were all sheep following one or two loudmouths, fails to understand the tempo of those times.
  
  Maoridom could see that their lives were changing around them, and that the old ways werent going to continue. The Musket Wars of the 1820s, when they slaughtered each other with gay abandon, had taught them that.
  
  My view is that they knew what they were doing, even if they didn’t foresee how it would turn out 20 or 40 years later. But you can’t blame them for that.
  
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  September 1, 2024 1:49pm
  - Swifty
    
    All New Zealanders need to do is read the speeches given by the chiefs who refused to sign, and the reasons they gave for not signing.
    
    Many of them refused because, they themselves said, it will mean that the Crown is sovereign and that they wouldn’t sign up to that.
    
    They knew damn well what the treaty meant.
    
    They all did.
    
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    September 1, 2024 4:26pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The crookedness of mail in voting is alive and well. So the ballot arrives, is filled in and returned when people of those names do not live there. Casinos? Gas stations?

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2024/08/26/las-vegas-officials-forced-investigate-voters-registered-strip-clubs-casinos-gas-stations-ahead-elections/
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September 1, 2024 11:19am
Ghost

I wonder if some interislander crew have moved on

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350399093/witness-says-barge-had-clearly-lost-control-running-aground-beach
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September 1, 2024 11:55am
- Taieri
  
  Indonesian crew. Flagged in Niue. Subsidized by the NZ taxpayer.
  
  However, the origins of the crew are not important here. This vessel is totally unsuitable for what they are trying to do with it.
  
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  September 1, 2024 12:42pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Flagged in the well-known maritime centre of excellence that is Niue, eh? The NZ public can be assured that the barge conforms to best practice industry standards.
    
    //
    
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    September 1, 2024 1:54pm
Swifty

Even the far-left are upset and cringing at Ginny Andersen’s performance this week:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C_CmRwtpCY0

I wonder what was the date, what point in her career, when Andersen came to believe New Zealanders are as thick as pig-shit and that we’ll just a swallow any old crap from her.

I wonder too whether this week has given her cause to reflect on the wisdom of those views.
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September 1, 2024 2:07pm
- AitchW
  
  Ginny was obviously mentored by Ardern. Labour is the only source of truth///
  How they must resent Ardern for skulking out when she did to bask in the adoration of the international left….
  
  6 1
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  September 1, 2024 4:07pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

So move undocumented illegal aliens to documented?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcPtmqbUHaE
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September 1, 2024 2:20pm
Damocles11

Comrade Ardern had to make her comments on the Maori King about socialism, didn’t she.

‘Jacinda Ardern, New Zealand’s former prime minister, said Kiingi Tuheitia had been an advocate for Maori, for ‘fairness’, ‘justice’ and prosperity.’
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September 1, 2024 4:22pm
- MCōs
  
  As opposed to unfairness, injustice and poverty
  
  3 1
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  September 1, 2024 7:10pm
- Ghost
  
  What’s your issue with that comment?
  
  2 1
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  September 1, 2024 7:18pm
Jack5

The Woke are going after the term “Anglo-Saxon”.

The Telegraph reports:

… in a move to “decolonise the curriculum”, professors have renamed a masters course in Viking and Anglo-Saxon Studies as Viking and Early Medieval English Studies.

A module within the programme titled “Research Methods in Viking and Anglo-Saxon Studies” has also had the “Anglo-Saxon” term removed in favour of “Early Medieval English”.

The university is said to be seeking also to “problematise the term ‘Viking’.”

The newspaper says “Anglo-Saxon” has been used in America to describe those descended from white early settlers.
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