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August 25, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 August 2024

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General Debate

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NeverMindTheBollocks

Weapons grade hypocrisy from UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres. Arriving in NZ via the most polluting form of travel short of a Saturn V, he opposes removal of our O&G exploration ban.

Antonio, when you start travelling here by yacht, I’ll start listening to what you have to say on this topic.

http://www.1news.co.nz/2024/08/24/un-chief-disagrees-with-nzs-plan-to-reverse-fossil-fuel-ban/
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August 25, 2024 8:00am
- Burtland
  
  the nation needs to give him the bird
  
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  August 25, 2024 10:13am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “The only thing I can tell you is that the oil and gas that will be discovered from now, I’m absolutely sure, it will never be used,”
  The guy is a head case.
  
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  August 25, 2024 10:13am
- sherp
  
  Helen Clark’s work mate supports leftist policy…. I’m shocked
  
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  August 25, 2024 11:55am
- rouppe
  
  Guterres arrived from Samoa, where he visited climate adaptation and mitigation projects.
  
  “My presence at the Pacific Islands Forum is essentially an expression of solidarity with the Pacific Islands,” he said.
  
  “They do not contribute to climate change and they are in the first line on the negative impacts.”
  
  Hasn’t it been shown more than once, generally speaking, that Pacific islands are not “sinking”?
  
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  August 25, 2024 12:18pm
  - KH
    
    Not sinking at all. Their big problem is over population. Some of the atolls are ridiculous. If you need to build, it’s on stilts over water.
    
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    August 25, 2024 2:36pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I’ve been to a Pacific Island or two, and I’m pretty sure I saw those things called “cars”. The electricity system too was powered by diesel, if I’m not mistaken.
    
    So, it’s simply not true to say that Pacific Island states have not contributed to rising sea levels (if you believe in that sort of thing).
    
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    August 25, 2024 4:29pm
- Justitia
  
  This oleaginous little Portuguese Socialist is way out of line. He has no right to interfere in the affairs of a sovereign Nation. Net Zero is an insane act of self-harm. CO2 does NOT drive climate, as the attached scientific paper from the International Journal of Geosciences makes clear: https://www.scirp.org/pdf/ijg_2024032514494686.pdf
  
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  August 25, 2024 1:28pm
peterwn

So a TV1 poll indicated that half of those polled considered that cancelling the ferries was the wrong decision while a quarter thought it was the right decision and the rest ‘do not know’ etc.
The poll asked: “Do you think the Government made the right or wrong decision to cancel the replacement Interislander Cook Strait ferries?”
Given the framing of the question and the way the matter had been treated in the media the result would not be that surprising. If those polled were told that the proposed ferries were not fit for purpose (too big to operate confidently in the Tory Channel or near Picton), perhaps the result would have been different.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/08/24/half-of-kiwis-disagree-with-axing-mega-ferries-project-poll/
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August 25, 2024 8:01am
- Burtland
  
  whats Goldsmith doing about it ?
  
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  August 25, 2024 10:22am
  - peterwn
    
    It is not really Paul’s job. Simeon Brown and Nicola Willis would be more involved than Paul.
    The preferred solution would seem to be two non rail-enabled ferries about the size of the Aratere which would be fit for purpose navigation-wise and not require too much in the way of berthing facilities. Someone in media suggested David Seymour is in on the act wanting a privatised operation.
    There will probably be no public announcement until cancellation negotiations with the Korean shipyard are essentially completed. Re-deploying the shipyard facilities and workers to build the smaller ferries is probably being looked at, but no one is going to admit this at present.
    
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    August 25, 2024 12:34pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Port upgrades were most of the problem not the ferries.
  
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  August 25, 2024 10:25am
  - wsk12345
    
    No – infrastructure was the main part of the cost but the size of the ferries was a massive problem. Who wants to add at least 30 mins to the trip by coming through the Northern Entrance to the Sound rather than Tory Channel? Well we would have been as these ferries were so stupidly big they could not sagely enter the channel in anything but perfect weather.
    
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    August 25, 2024 11:19am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    The ferries were too big to enter Tory channel, the tugs were too small, and the larger vessels meant less trips per day. The ferries were a large part of the problem
    
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    August 25, 2024 12:37pm
- OlderChas
  
  The ferries are still going to be replaced so the question is, indeed, a nonsense.
  
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  August 25, 2024 11:26am
- leoj
  
  How come Bluebridge are doing okay?
  
  Private enterprise wins again.
  
  Maybe the education dept next?
  
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  August 25, 2024 12:01pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Best keep Kiwirail out of the picture then…..
    
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    August 25, 2024 3:19pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  If they framed the question do you think the government cancelling the ferries but will choose smaller ferries able to enter the Tory channel. Then I bet there would be a far different response
  
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  August 25, 2024 12:35pm
Yvette

From Gary Judd KC: Treaty is a bald agreement, anchored in its time and place
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/gary-judd-kc-treaty-is-a-bald-agreement-anchored-in-its-time-and-place

As our increasingly dismal national day continues to show, the treaty is no basis for nationhood. It doesn’t express the fundamental rights and responsibilities of citizenship, and it doesn’t have any unifying concept.

“… it doesn’t have any unifying concept”
au contraire
while the Coalition Government indicates the intention to clarify the confusion that is the Treaty of Waitangi, the Maori King calls for unity – against Government policy
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August 25, 2024 8:02am
- PurplePen
  
  The Treaty doc isn’t that complicated. It isn’t the founding document for the establishment of a nation, it’s merely one. The most important nation building article being article 3 as that then enacted all the laws of the British Empire from the Magna Carta onwards for the ordinary people, the maori. Then following the Treaty is the 1852 NZ Constitution Act which establishes NZ with it’s own parliament.
  
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  August 25, 2024 10:04am
  - bennerg
    
    So “the 1852 NZ Constitution Act which established NZ with it’s own parliament” must be the founding document for our nation.
    
    The Treaty was then only an agreement between those living at the time as to how they would work together. Logically then it should have ceased to have an effect from that point of time, in law anyway, as all matters of concern should have been handled using legislation created by and for that Parliament.
    
    Property ownership, the system of law, etc, are only possible when you have a system of government to support and enforce them. So that happened for New Zealand (on it’s own) in 1852.
    
    As an example, my property ownership exists only because we have a system of government that documents and supports said ownership. If an invading force comes in then said ownership would cease to exist.
    
    I hope all those advocating for change from this system realise that. Unless of course they consider themselves “the advance parties” of such an invasion.
    
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    August 25, 2024 10:29am
    - PurplePen
      
      The act was passed by the British parliament and which article 3 of the ToW the chiefs were bound. Section 71 in the 1852 Act is the only one specific to the aboriginal…
      
      71. And Whereas it may be expedient that the laws, customs, and usages of the aboriginal or native inhabitants of New Zealand, so far as they are not repugnant to the general principles of humanity, should for the present be maintained for the government of themselves, in all their relations to and dealings with each other, and that particular districts should be set apart within which such laws, customs, or usages should be so observed:
      
      The words to note here are “should for the present” which confirms the arrangement is temporary. And also that it only relates to Maori interacting with Maori. Not anyone else.
      
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      August 25, 2024 2:22pm
Yvette

Regarding my comment above
Sorry, the indent quote should end after the first use of the words ‘doesn’t have any unifying concept’

[Mod – I don’t see any mistake with it?]
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August 25, 2024 8:13am
Im Right

Frustration must be at fever pitch on the left…MSM and lefty blogs penning thousands of words telling all how terrible this new government is (maori bashing, benefit bashing, racist and throwing so many government workers on the dole) and STILL the polls show National/NZ first/ACT can still form a government.
I appreciate the polls mean nothing this far out from the election, but you can almost taste the lefty tears as each poll is released that shows little to no change.
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August 25, 2024 8:17am
- AitchW
  
  Hipkins’ days must be numbered. Time for the Labour Party to rearrange the deck chairs…
  
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  August 25, 2024 9:40am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  No matter what they do, no matter what they say
  
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  August 25, 2024 9:42am
- kowtow
  
  Talking of msm and polls , today’s NZME tds offering is from cartoonist Emmerson showing Trump /Vance about to be overwhelmed by a harris /Walz wave , with trump declaring that to be “fake”
  
  But no polls in the US show a huge wave , if anything the consensus is it could be very tight .
  
  The irony is the activist Emmerson ( and NZME) accusing Trump of the very thing te media do . Fakery .
  
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  August 25, 2024 10:37am
  - leoj
    
    Only Rasmussen polls are worth paying attention to at this point. All the others poll more Democrats.
    
    Watch for the polls to become more aligned with the actual election closer to November. Those Dem heavy polling operations will suddenly want to be seen as credible.
    
    Until then, most are garbage polls, attempting to sway people rather than inform.
    
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    August 25, 2024 12:06pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Rasmussen head pollster says it’s pretty much dead even now in country wide popular vote. In detail here (refreshing to see open honest warts and all analysis):
      https://youtu.be/uq-7Wfq5cF8?t=196
      
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      August 25, 2024 1:53pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I wonder how the polls will look in 6 months now that inflation is down, interest rates are heading down, stolen labour taxes returned, seek job adverts up 3%, 4% lift in services industry in July5% hike in dairy auction, the left and probably labour are really going to be pushed into the gutter if they are not already there
  
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  August 25, 2024 12:42pm
Bridgenag

RFK, Jr. Full Speech: Also as Text
A brilliant speech by a true patriot

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/rfk-jr-full-speech-also-as-text?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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August 25, 2024 8:24am
- Loddenthinks
  
  And some of his family have publicly disowned him, calling his move to endorse Trump a “betrayal”
  
  As they say, you can choose your friends…
  
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  August 25, 2024 9:14am
  - redeye
    
    Roseanne Barr lol.
    
    I haven’t seen democrats this upset since Lincoln outlawed slavery.
    
    https://x.com/therealroseanne/status/1827094268147544551?t=2HeZw_JSyQfXe6WL20CH5w&s=19
    
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    August 25, 2024 9:45am
    - NothingLeft
      
      (or the Kennedy family so pissed off since they ended prohibition)
      
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      August 25, 2024 1:55pm
- Simon
  
  “So what’s causing this suffering? I’ll name two culprits, first and the worst is ultra processed food. About 70% of American children’s diet is ultra processed that means industrial manufactured in a factory. These foods consist primarily of processed sugar, ultra-processed grains, and seed oils.”
  
  Processed food is crap. Literal poison. Fast food slop like KFC, slop from the third world, use of seed oil, too much sugar / salt like various “restaurants”, and selected supermarket aisles should have to display cancer photos on the menus / aisles.
  
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  August 25, 2024 9:15am
  - wsk12345
    
    Weird all the downticks – it’s pretty well known now that ultra processed food is hugely problematic for both physical and mental health. Things like seed oils (really nasty industrial manufacturing process), gums and emulsifiers that upset the gut microbiome, and artificial sweeteners that the body recognises as sweet but does not recognise. The research findings are pretty clear.
    
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    August 25, 2024 11:25am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Spot on. It was the sugar manufacturers who in the 1960s persuaded the health authorities that it was fat and not sugar that was the dietary problem. A particularly fine piece of gaslighting, I might say, that surely had contributed to the premature death of millions.
      
      https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html (Login required)
      
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      August 25, 2024 4:36pm
- bennerg
  
  I get a sense of something momentous about to happen here, with the formation of the “Unity party” as they call it, where they can work together on that they agree, but are still free to disagree.
  
  Sound familiar?
  
  I hope that enough people can get over the Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS – hey, it even has a name and acronym so must be a real thing) to see that their negative views have been shaped by a huge propaganda machine supported by invested interests who fear being called out if Trump gets back into power.
  
  At least this time he will be more aware of who is on his side, who to trust, and who not to (eg. Fauci).
  
  Just imagine the team, with Bobby Kennedy, Elon Musk, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy, Ted Cruz, Tom Cotton, Mark Rubio, and even Tulsi Gabbard in important positions.
  
  A dramatic change ahead? I just hope the citizens of the USA want it too.
  
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  August 25, 2024 10:48am
Bridgenag

German state media broadcaster develops virtual reality game in which players shoot lasers at flying climate denialists, in the perhaps the most eccentric effort to propagandise teenagers known to man

https://open.substack.com/pub/eugyppius/p/german-state-media-broadcaster-develops?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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August 25, 2024 8:25am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Speaking of Germans I would if those accused of the latest stabbing in Germany were of the religion of peace.
  
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  August 25, 2024 8:29am
  - CJames
    
    As the 15 year old youth yelled out the slogan during the attack, almost certainly so. Of course he will be known to authorities, a lone wolf and not radicalised by the mosque he attended.
    
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    August 25, 2024 8:33am
    - CJames
      
      According to the Telegraph, Islamic State have claimed responsibility, but that could well just be opportunistic self-promotion.
      
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      August 25, 2024 8:36am
    - David Garrett
      
      CJames: inevitably also coming to our fair land in the fullness of time…even if we stopped letting the bastards in tomorrow…they will be over 2% of the population within ten years, and thats the first tipping point…Australia is already having problems from the followers of the death cult
      
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      August 25, 2024 8:50am
      - Simon
        
        Situational awareness required in the modern liberal democracy of diversity.
        
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        August 25, 2024 9:09am
      - CJames
        
        Australia has the problem that the first group who migrated were mainly Druze – very much a persecuted minority in Lebanon/ Syria. Then because they integrated well, it then became the Muslims from there who were allowed in. The latter didn’t integrate and are a major part of the criminal underworld that is causing them so much strife
        
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        August 25, 2024 9:11am
      - MCōs
        
        We’ve had far more trouble from one Australian mass murderer in ‘our fair land’ than all the various strident religious or anti religious organizations put together
        Even after the mosque massacres there was no retaliation, which probability surprised a lot of people
        
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        August 25, 2024 9:15am
      - Damocles11
        
        Who would the ‘retaliation’ have been against MCos? The perpetrator of the mosque attacks is in jail.
        
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        August 25, 2024 9:31am
      - Matt Long
        
        The retaliation was a church in Sri Lanka, in part due to some liberal knob calling Tarrant’s action Christian Terrorism.
        
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        August 25, 2024 10:00am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Odd that the xenophobic maori activists haven’t recognised the muslim threat.
        
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        August 25, 2024 10:07am
      - kowtow
        
        CJames
        
        Re Lebanon .
        
        I’d read it was the Christians the oz authorities were being pressured to bring in . But then they literally lost control of the processing and ended up with essentially huge numbers of hezbollah types .
        
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        August 25, 2024 10:13am
    - kowtow
      
      The German authorities have been busily cracking down on knives .
      
      When will these clever people ( there and indeed here) learn that in essence it’s not the knife that’s the problem , a knife in a drawer is no more dangerous than a rifle in a cabinet .
      
      The worrying thing is that pointing out the real cause of the problem in Europe ( indeed across the west) is likely to earn one a visit from the politzei , or should I say Stasi.
      
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      August 25, 2024 8:56am
    - Taieri
      
      Ironically, Solingen where the latest stabbings took place, is known as the “City of Blades” due to the high quality steel knives manufactured there for several centuries.
      
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      August 25, 2024 9:05am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Solingen steel blades.
        Yep , Still have a mecator knife.
        Solingen must be the English equivalent of Sheffield?
        Damascus Steel, Thats what i would really like.
        
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        August 26, 2024 5:17am
  - Keith White
    
    Islamis State (ISIS) have just claimed responsibility
    
    and
    
    Attacker came from refugee center nearby the square
    
    and
    
    German authorities have formally stated that they have no idea as to the motive.
    
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    August 25, 2024 8:38am
    - Chris Nisbet
      
      Authorities can be remarkably obtuse when they set their minds to it.
      
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      August 25, 2024 9:59am
    - kowtow
      
      Despite reports he was shouting that now well known and strangely repeated at so many of these ‘one off ‘ incidents ………Arabic monotheisitic declaration.
      
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      August 25, 2024 10:24am
  - Scott
    
    You can see why people in Europe are very upset about immigration? Random strangers stabbing and killing children will do that to you.
    
    It’s not far right extremists who are upset about mass immigration and violence, it’s the ordinary person, and rightly so.
    
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    August 25, 2024 8:49am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Poland have authorised border guards to kill anyone who breaches their border.
      They don’t have a muslim terror problem and they unlikely to have one in the future.
      
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      August 25, 2024 10:13am
      - Taieri
        
        Poland have authorised border guards to kill anyone who breaches their border.
        ———
        
        Not quite so. They authorised border guards and army soldiers to shoot in self defence if attacked by the immigrants breaching the border. The Polish indigenous Muslim community actually lives in a couple of settlements near the border with Belarus, where most of the breaches occur. This community never caused any problems, in fact, by all accounts, they are all very patriotic.
        
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        August 25, 2024 10:28am
      - Jack5
        
        Taieri’s Polish indigenous Muslim community…
        
        That would be the Lipka Tatars, in Poland for six centuries since the invasion of the Golden Horde.
        
        Film actor Charles Bronson was the son of a Lipka Tatar from Poland.
        
        Per capita of the general population, Poland has about one-tenth as many Muslims as New Zealand has.
        
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        August 25, 2024 11:52am
    - sirknz
      
      But the ordinary person who holds such views is a far right extremist and is the most dangerous threat to democracy…
      
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      August 25, 2024 11:36am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    The police have apparently arrested a 15-year old and recovered the knife from a rubbish bin. They also said he was not the accused stabbed, and also that it was a lone attacker.
    
    Those two statements don’t quite tally.
    
    Also of note, in what was perhaps the ultimate irony, the stabbing took place at a festival to “celebrate diversity”.
    
    How’s that diversity working out for you, Germany? They don’t seem to have these sorts of issues in Poland; can’t imagine why.
    
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    August 25, 2024 9:20am
    - MCōs
      
      Both Germany and Poland have very poor records of anti semitism
      
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      August 25, 2024 9:46am
      - kowtow
        
        And ?
        
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        August 25, 2024 10:25am
      - JimBobJoe
        
        That is a massive diversionary statement on a thread discussing a possible Islamist inspired stabbing attack….
        
        Look SQUIRRELLLLLL!
        
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        August 25, 2024 10:30am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        So has Islam.
        
        But you don’t want to think about that. Which makes you and your Moderate Centrist Leftism the perfect example of what’s going wrong here.
        
        You’d rather navel gaze on the sometimes shitty history of the West than even glance at the threat of Islamism.
        
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        August 25, 2024 12:30pm
      - MCōs
        
        My point is both Germany and Poland have had diversity issues with regards to Jews, and still do, that can’t just be swept under the carpet
        
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        August 25, 2024 2:55pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Multiple people injured in south Sydney stabbing incident
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/multiple-people-injured-in-south-sydney-stabbing-incident/PQHI4OVMVRDBXG7A4JPIRSAPNQ/
    
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    August 25, 2024 1:45pm
CJames

So smoking’s back being cool again for the hip youngsters.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/08/19/why-the-young-and-cool-are-taking-up-smoking/#google_vignette
Is this an “up yours” to the nanny state or just young people wanting to differentiate themselves from their parents? Whatever the reason, the anti-smoking wowsers are going to have to wind up their moral outrage again. Just when we thought we got rid of them.
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August 25, 2024 8:31am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Time for a new series of Absolutely Fabulous
  
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  August 25, 2024 8:47am
- Inandout
  
  CJ, the Greens will be upset because they like referring to their enemies as ‘big’. Big Tobacco, Big Oil, Big Pharma (well before Pfizer), Big Polluters and I am sure others exist. Haven’t heard them refer to Big Penis though, well maybe once they define a male.
  
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  August 25, 2024 8:54am
- Quail
  
  Anti smoking wowsers?Not about health then?
  Go ask the Marlboro man —er too late.
  Tobacco use is self harm.
  
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  August 25, 2024 1:27pm
  - MCōs
    
    Lung cancer is the most common form of cancer in NZ men and 90% is caused by smoking and it’s pretty much terminal
    How much of that is passive smoking, I don’t know, but either way it’s a huge burden on the healthcare system, which is under all sorts of pressure right now. Cancer treatment is expensive. If, like me or anyone else who’s been through chemotherapy, it doesn’t take much to figure that out.
    
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    August 25, 2024 3:20pm
    - Surely Knott
      
      Not to worry. Our friends at Biontech have an MRNA lung cancer vaccine in the pipeline.
      
      https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/aug/23/world-first-lung-cancer-vaccine-trials-launched-across-seven-countries
      
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      August 26, 2024 1:22pm
Swifty

I certainly hope that Fullers have not wrongly accused innocent staff:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-fullers-worker-accused-of-theft-leaves-job-suddenly-police-investigating/6FE4F7WFVRG2THU6FA2AAPKBLI/
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August 25, 2024 8:34am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hitler phones Kamala.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWSRgPpYKrg
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August 25, 2024 8:52am
- Burtland
  
  has the US reached peak woke or is there more to come?
  
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  August 25, 2024 10:41am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You ain’t seen nothing yet if Kamala wins.
    
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    August 25, 2024 12:15pm
kowtow

An excellent offering by Gary Judd KC over on Basset Brash and Hide . A year 2000 speech by David Lange .

Deals with treaty ,sovereignty , principles etc .

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/gary-judd-kc-treaty-is-a-bald-agreement-anchored-in-its-time-and-place
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August 25, 2024 9:02am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump Adds A Kennedy In Hopes He Will Draw All The Sniper Fire.

https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-adds-a-kennedy-in-hopes-he-will-draw-all-the-sniper-fire?
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August 25, 2024 9:33am
Mod88

Coming for us all now…Free Speech be damned. I strongly recommend Elon Musk stay in the US and out of Europe.

The owner of Telegram, Pavel Durov, has just been arrested in France for failing to censor the truth on his application.
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August 25, 2024 9:57am
- Ghost
  
  Censor truth? Let’s see why he was arrested according to French bfm.tv
  
  The many derivatives found on its encrypted platform used for the purposes of money laundering, drug trafficking or sharing child-criminal content. Offences of which he would have been complicit by an absence of moderation.
  
  Article
  
  So which of those do you support not being moderated?
  
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  August 25, 2024 10:13am
  - kowtow
    
    If absense of moderation is a serious crime , then can the same concept of negligence be applied to borders and border enforcement for example.
    
    Every single boat person who crosses the Channel to England , aidded and abetted by organised crime , who drown or who commit crime in the UK could be sheeted back to the negligent French / European Union authorities .
    
    Mass arrests at the Elysee ?
    
    No didn’t think so.
    
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    August 25, 2024 10:31am
  - bennerg
    
    Ghost, it’s a cloak of sanctimony. Accuse anyone of such stuff of course to sway the narrative.
    
    Crims also use our roads in the course of their “business”, but is the NZTA being taken to Court because they are facilitiating crime by allowing them to do so? The supermarkets because they buy their food there?
    
    Any reason will be employed to enforce censorship by the current governing elite.
    
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    August 25, 2024 10:54am
    - Swifty
      
      In my entire lifetime I have never heard of the NZ Post Office being prosecuted for conveying threatening or obscene letters as it would be quite wrong to do so as the majority of New Zealanders would agree I would say.
      
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      August 25, 2024 11:17am
      - Ghost
        
        Perhaps you can tell us the last time nz post didn’t cooperate with law enforcement
        
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        August 25, 2024 11:38am
      - Surely Knott
        
        Perhaps law enforcement would have more credibility, if they hadn’t been found to be coercing social media companies during the last presidential election and through the covid era. (Eg. twitter files.) The Telegram founder being threatened with 20 years prison for lack of moderation has a rotten stench about it.
        
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        August 26, 2024 1:33pm
  - sirknz
    
    This is happening on every single social media platform you can think of, and probably a few you have never heard of, right now.
    
    This accusation is being used as a cover to the public to create an excuse to control the platforms that are not willing to censor the people or content that the authorities specifically point at.
    
    “OMG! Child content, money laundering, and drugs? That is terrible! Oh look, did something mundane.”
    
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    August 25, 2024 11:48am
PurplePen

I was in Auckland and happened to catch up with a friend there. Ended up walking back to their office at AUT. They’re a lecturer. Anyway, I brought up one of the current political issues to discuss (can’t remember which, might have been race or treaty based) and they said in a hushed tone, better not talk about that. I asked what to you mean. They said they can’t or shouldn’t really discuss that here. We were in an office. There was no-one else around. It dawned on me that were actually scared. I left it at that and realised, to use woke words, lecturers are not “safe” in their place of work and there isn’t any freedom of thought there. Wow.
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August 25, 2024 10:14am
- NothingLeft
  
  Academia is unbelievably repressive and corrupted. It really can’t be saved in its current form; the whole woke power-structure and hierarchy need to be fired, defenestrating their toxic politics to start over with more enlightened individuals.
  
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  August 25, 2024 2:09pm
NK

So you are now criminally liable for ALLEGEDLY failing to act?

The criminal law is generally and mostly only used to prohibit actions, and is not meant to apply if you “do nothing”. Of course there are exceptions.

In that light, please tell us what criminal offence, AND in what country, has he ALLEGEDLY committed by failing to act. Bear in mind, Telegram operates as a worldwide platform.
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August 25, 2024 10:21am
- Ghost
  
  If illegal content is being shared on your platform then yes you legally have to remove it. Even Kim Dotcom was smart enough to take down child porn shared on megaupload.
  
  In the USA the PROTECT Act of 2003 and the Communications Decency Act (CDA) Section 230 provides immunity to the platforms, unless they knowingly facilitate.
  
  In Europe it is the Directive on combating the sexual abuse and sexual exploitation of children and child pornography (2011/93/EU)
  
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  August 25, 2024 10:34am
  - Ghost
    
    Worth adding
    
    But, the efforts have fallen short, partly because of technological challenges posed by Telegram.
    
    Investigators told ThePrint that the Dubai-headquartered messaging platform is “opaque” when it comes to providing information. “Telegram is not at all cooperative with Indian investigating agencies. No law enforcement agency from Europe or the West can lay a finger on Telegram,” said a source in the Delhi Police who did not wish to be named.
    
    Article
    
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    August 25, 2024 10:57am
Maggy Wassilieff

An interesting question:

Were people like Palmer, Clark or Salmond living in New Zealand circa 2020-2021?

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/ananish-chaudhuri-is-new-zealand-in-danger-of-lurching-towards-constitutional-impropriety
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August 25, 2024 10:23am
- imalwaysright
  
  They were eerily quiet as they observed the regime goosestep across the country.
  
  “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.” – MLK
  
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  August 25, 2024 10:33am
- Swifty
  
  Thanks Maggy.
  
  I haven’t had the time nor energy to go through Palmer’s piece in detail but there’s one point he made that I haven’t seen anyone mention.
  
  He remarked on the appropriateness of ‘lobbyists’ becoming Ministers in the areas in which they had previously expressed some views – and then gave the examples of Costello and McKee. In doing so his strong implication was that this was wrong, corrupt, damaging to our society etc.
  
  I notice he didn’t give any examples of where the Left had done this exact same thing, nor criticise them for it.
  
  What about Jackson in Maori Affairs? Tinetti and Hipkins in Education? Shaw in Climate Change? Andersen in Police? All manner of activist and unionist Labour MPs who have gone on to become MPs and then Ministers and who have advanced their own personally-held policy positions?
  
  Is Palmer so lacking in self-awareness that he is blind to the Left’s machinations he so criticises the Right for?
  
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  August 25, 2024 11:10am
  - Mod88
    
    Palmer along with Clark, Key, Bolger etc should just shut up. Their day is done and in Palmers case we are where we are now thanks to him and his principles misconception.
    
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    August 25, 2024 11:52am
    - MCōs
      
      When it comes to free speech nobody has had their day
      The correct response is to counter their views with alternate arguments
      Btw
      At what point do you consider someone has ‘had their day’ and is no longer entitled to express their opinions?
      
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      August 25, 2024 1:40pm
Jack5

What a Woke stuff-up …

The great and loved ambulance service, renamed by the Woke as “Hato Hone” St John, wants full Government funding. At present about 83 per cent of its cash comes from taxpayers.

Presumably, however, it would remain under Woke control.

Have the service’s donations, bequests and the like, been hit by management’s re-naming coup that incorporated in the title “Hato Hone”? The words which stem from early-Maori pronunciation of “Saint John”. The change was mirrored by decorating ambulances with Maori symbols.

NZ has far more than enough State participation in the economy. Why expand it? Better perhaps to re-regionalise the ambulance service, with locals paying for the amount of service they want and how they want it. It worked for a long time

Language aside: the online Maori dictionary translates “ambulance” as “waka harihari tūroro”.

It says “harihari” means to take or carry (a number of times). It says ” tūroro” means to be ill, or means a sick person.

“Waka” the dictionary defines as “canoe, vehicle, conveyance, spirit medium”, or as a “box” (for feathers) or a “water trough”.

Wouldn’t it be better for Maori academics just to borrow the word “ambulance”, which the English language borrowed from the French around the time of the Crimean war.

The French term originates in “hôpital ambulant,” or “walking hospital.” Anciently this came from the Latin “ambulare” to walk. From Late Latin came “hospitāle” for guest house. The French turned the adjective for walking into the noun.

According to Google Translate “ambulance” sounds pretty much the same in French, and is good enough for Hindi, Indonesian, Zulu, Danish, Swedish, Polish, and some other languages. Of foreign words for the vehicle, the German term appeals: “krankenwagen”.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/526089/st-john-to-seek-100-percent-government-funding-from-2026
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August 25, 2024 10:56am
- Inandout
  
  Jack, and an ambulance officer in German is Sanitätsoffizier. How quaint and at as the same time apt.
  
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  August 25, 2024 11:17am
- Cassandra
  
  Logically it should be folded into the Fire Service. That’d save quite a lot of admin costs, although salaries would rocket.
  
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  August 25, 2024 11:34am
  - Jack5
    
    The levy on fire insurance covers about 97 per cent of the costs of the Fire and Emergency Service, according to the following link.
    
    Merging St John Ambulance into the Fire Service would surely create an accounting bugger’s muddle.
    
    https://fireandemergency.nz/assets/Documents/About-FENZ/Levy-and-payment-forms/Guide-for-levy-payers.pdf
    
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    August 25, 2024 11:59am
  - kowtow
    
    Given that decolonisation is all the go these days I’da thunk folding the Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of Saint John of Jerusalem would be the only way to go.
    
    Innit.
    
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    August 25, 2024 12:53pm
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      What about the Original Name
      
      Knights Hospitallers of St John of Jerusalem Rhodes and Malta.
      
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      August 25, 2024 1:55pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Many countries ie US, France have ambulances run by the Fire Service.
    
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    August 25, 2024 1:52pm
  - AitchW
    
    Fire service already respond to a lot of health/injury emergency calls.
    
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    August 25, 2024 2:44pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Yep. Outside of the main cities, fire engines usually get to car crashes first because there are more fire stations dotted around the country.
      
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      August 25, 2024 4:45pm
- wsk12345
  
  I know they lost alot of donations after the renaming as I was on a paid focus group interview where they were trying out slogans about multiculturalism etc to see if they could find some that were palatable to (ex) donors, or trying to pretend that the renaming was about multiculturalism rather than maorification.
  
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  August 25, 2024 11:36am
  - OlderChas
    
    How many people went “off” the Ambulance Service when the incoming CEO (ex UK Ambulances) as one of his first acts spent some millions repainting all the ambulances yellow (same as UK’s) and outfitting all the ambos in new green (same as UK’s) uniforms? Me for one!
    
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    August 25, 2024 12:18pm
    - Ghost
      
      Only new ambulances are yellow. We still have some white ones in service down here.
      
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      August 25, 2024 12:36pm
    - MCōs
      
      How many people went off the ambulance service when they were they suffered a medical emergency?
      You’ll die if we don’t get you to hospital
      What colour is your vehicle?
      Yellow
      Bugger off
      
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      August 25, 2024 2:38pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Perhaps Wellington Free Ambulance should consider expansion.
  
  On second thoughts, maybe not.
  
  Hat tip to the Norwood family, for establishing Wellington Free, not to mention Rotary and other donors who fund raise every year in support of it.
  
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  August 25, 2024 4:47pm
Jethrod

And another quaint German word is…..
….flipmflopmmuckenspreda… being German for…. windscreen wipers!
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August 25, 2024 11:43am
- Jack5
  
  😄 With an imagination like that, Jethrod, you should be one of the academics coining new Maori words.
  
  Your term’s funny compared with Google Translate’s “scheibenwischer”.
  
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  August 25, 2024 12:10pm
  - Jethrod
    
    Oh there’s the really obvious one too….kotanga
    
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    August 25, 2024 3:39pm
- newview
  
  You are pulling my flipmm Titmm aren’t you.
  
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  August 25, 2024 12:14pm
Ghost

Perhaps she can release all the letters telling her to stay, and evidence they haven’t been written by her

Next Sunday, Green Party members will decide whether to invoke the so-called waka-jumping legislation, which could dump the independent MP from Parliament.

Q+A caught up with the former Green, in what could be their final week in Parliament.

Article

“I get messages every day,” the MP said. “I do get messages from people telling me to get lost but three-to-one, people are telling me to stay.”
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August 25, 2024 12:08pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  No that is quite plausible that she overwhelmingly gets more letters asking her to stay. Simply because her fans are the kind of people to have the time and inclination to write letters. 😀
  
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  August 25, 2024 12:11pm
mandk

Is NZ Herald racist? (Rhetorical question)

An article on Lisa Carrington spells out her Māori heritage, but ignores her European heritage: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/its-time-for-a-reset-dame-lisa-carringtons-next-act-after-the-olympics/6SCKJM75IVEEFDQQHA5EF2YKFE/

From what I can see on Wiki, she can’t be any more than half Maori.
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August 25, 2024 1:26pm
- Ghost
  
  Nothing to do with the herald, if you look you will see this is a woman’s days interview. Womans’s day are owned by Are Media, an Aussie company.
  
  What’s your complaint of racism, that the woman’s day have listed her iwi? Umm, that’s all Dame Lisa herself lists on her webpage. https://www.lisacarrington.co.nz/about.html
  
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  August 25, 2024 1:37pm
  - mandk
    
    Of course it has to do with the NZH. They chose to republish it.
    
    And as for Dame Lisa, isn’t she just advertising her Māori privilege? It must be advantageous.
    
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    August 25, 2024 2:02pm
    - Ghost
      
      Herald publishes many articles from other sources. There is nothing racist in the article.
      
      Māori privilege. It’s very obvious where the racism is, it’s not in the article, it’s idiots like you
      
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      August 25, 2024 3:55pm
      - greybeard
        
        Look at it this way: if I mix 15 bottles of white wine with 1 bottle of red wine I sure as hell don’t end up with a red wine. I have a wine which is predominantly white. With a bit of a tint.
        
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        August 25, 2024 4:08pm
      - Ghost
        
        If Dame Lisa wants to acknowledge her Māori heritage that is her decision. Don’t like it, get help.
        
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        August 25, 2024 4:11pm
Inandout

I heard the song ‘Melting Pot’ on a radio and was amazed the lines ‘and yellow chinkies’ still exist.
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August 25, 2024 1:37pm
Chuck Bird

I just finished watching the Outsiders on Sky.

Just after midday, there was an item about babies who survive a botched abortion are left to die. One poor baby last 5 hours.

I bet that it happens here thanks to [Mod – just use her name] Ardern and the majority of MPs without a conscience.
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August 25, 2024 1:50pm
- kevn
  
  Chuck… What’s the medical Hippocratic oath again? In part:
  “Abstain from intentional wrong doing and harm.”
  
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  August 25, 2024 2:07pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I met Melissa when she was at a Family First Forum
    
    I survived my mom’s abortion & met her 30 years later
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0YypaMDNgU
    
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    August 25, 2024 2:23pm
- Ghost
  
  So, what part of the abortion law allows that to happen?
  
  An abortion can only happen after 20 weeks if
  
  Provision of abortion services to women more than 20 weeks pregnant
  
  (1) A qualified health practitioner may only provide abortion services to a woman who is more than 20 weeks pregnant if the health practitioner reasonably believes that the abortion is clinically appropriate in the circumstances.
  
  (2) In considering whether the abortion is clinically appropriate in the circumstances, the qualified health practitioner must—
  
  (a) consult at least 1 other qualified health practitioner; and
  (b) have regard to—
  (i) all relevant legal, professional, and ethical standards to which the qualified health practitioner is subject; and
  
  (ii) the woman’s—
  
  (A) physical health; and
  (B) mental health; and
  (C) overall well-being; and
  (iii) the gestational age of the fetus.
  (3) Subsection (2) does not apply in a medical emergency.
  
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  August 25, 2024 2:36pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Ghost, what you say is correct. However, if after a botched abortion, there is a baby not attached to the mother in any way and is breathing and crying do you call the baby a fetus.
    
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    August 25, 2024 2:53pm
  - kevn
    
    ghost… So, NZ law only.
    
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    August 25, 2024 8:49pm
    - Ghost
      
      Ummm, that’s because chuck is talking about nz.
      
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      August 25, 2024 8:52pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Sounds like complete bollocks made up by anti-abortionists for propaganda effect. I’d need to see a lot more detail of the specific case to be convinced.
  
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  August 25, 2024 2:42pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I am not concerned about early abortions. However, I am not talking about abortion but a healthy baby that is separated from it mother and breathes and cries.
    
    Have you watched the video?
    
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    August 25, 2024 2:57pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Chuck, under our law, it would not be “clinically appropriate” to abort a healthy, 26-week-old fetus (such as Melissa was). Such fetus would be delivered by caesarean section and, when ready (and if necessary), put up for adoption.
      
      You have been told this (including by me), many times over several years now, yet you persist in suggesting that fetuses that survive late-term abortions — which I very much doubt happens in New Zealand, in this day and age — are left to die.
      
      In my admittedly uninformed opinion, it doesn’t happen. If you think it does, provide the evidence.
      
      Now answer the question that Ghost put to you at 2:36PM, above.
      
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      August 25, 2024 3:48pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Steve, the law does not say healthy babies who survive a botched abortion must not be left to die.
        
        The reason it does not say that is the majority of MPs voted against Simon O’Connor’s amendment.
        
        Do you think if there is a whistle-blower that those who partake in leaving a baby to die should be charge criminally?
        
        I find it hard to believe that a practise that happens in many countries does not occur here.
        
        If the MPs who believe as you do that no baby has been left to die why would the not support O’Connor’s amendment?
        
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        August 25, 2024 4:44pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Chuck Bird @ 4:44PM
        
        I don’t recall what O’Connor’s amendment was. No matter.
        
        Do you know that healthy, 20-weeks-plus fetuses, are aborted, rather than delivered by caesarean section? Of course you don’t. It doesn’t happen, because, in my view, it would not be “clinically appropriate” to do that. I say again, if you think it happens, provide the evidence!
        
        The Ministry of Health has guidelines that qualified health practitioners must follow. I dug them out a few years ago, probably as part of one of my previous responses to you, but I can’t be bothered doing so again.
        
        Do you think if there is a whistle-blower that those who partake in leaving a baby to die should be charge criminally?
        
        I say, that doesn’t happen. Post 20 weeks, fetuses that are aborted, rather than delivered by caesarean section, would be non-viable in some way. In the extremely unlikely event that an unviable fetus survived the abortion process, it would be within minutes of death, anyway. It would not be able to be saved.
        
        I ask you again, answer the question that Ghost put to you at 2:36PM, above.
        
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        August 25, 2024 5:25pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        “I don’t recall what O’Connor’s amendment was. No matter.”
        
        You expect me to answer your questions but ignore mine.
        
        O’Connor’s amendment is very important. If the MPs agreed with you that there was never a case of a baby that could be saved left to die then why not allow his amendment.
        
        Please answer my questions at 4:44.
        
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        August 25, 2024 5:41pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Chuck Bird @ 5:41PM
        
        I have only asked you to answer Ghost’s question (which you have not yet done). I asked and answered the only question I put to you.
        
        I did answer your question. You just didn’t like my answer.
        
        As is always the case with you, Chuck, we’re getting nowhere. It’s hard to fight against someone who has such a jaundiced view of life.
        
        We move on, until next time.
        
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        August 25, 2024 5:56pm
kevn

Wind generation on $teroid$…
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/new-york-pay-155-megawatt-hour-wind-power-current-rate-36-mwh
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August 25, 2024 2:03pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

A question for the more computer savvy her – and Mods.
A few weeks back I had a problem loging in and getting WordPress to accept a password DPF had the same issue.
Anyway, not working so I decided to get a new user name, profile, and password. Halfway through doing this everything came right but I have had comments going into moderation since. Damn nuisance not being able to go with the flow.
So I had another look and stumbled upon a profile with my name, my email and other details, but the user name was some silly generated thing “grandcolour” then some letters and numbers.
I was thinking about deleting this but if I do will I lose everything including my current login and be locked out until going through the whole process again?
I have been asking for help but to no avail.

And there it is again in italics “Your comment is awaiting moderation.?

[Mod – your account has not been hacked. There is no second account using your email. Stop playing around in your profile. The moderator that placed you on moderation will decide when you go off it]
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August 25, 2024 2:44pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Thankyou Mod.
  ‘The moderator that placed you on moderation will decide when you go off it.’
  That is really all I wanted to know, instead of me ducking and diving trying to find out what I did wrong. Still don’t know that.
  
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  August 25, 2024 3:29pm
  - Swifty
    
    [Not helpful Swifty. mod.]
    
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    August 25, 2024 8:29pm
Ghost

Kia Ora folks, Shane here again, I don’t know about you, but I’ve about had it up to here…..

Shane Jones: I’ve about had it up to here with these fictitious debates about the Treaty of Waitangi
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August 25, 2024 3:51pm
- lifesgood
  
  Go, you good man.
  
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  August 25, 2024 4:57pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Priceless..
  
  The Rabbit Queen, Debbie Packer.
  (at 0.50sec)
  
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  August 25, 2024 9:03pm
Ghost

Looks like mental health behind the car accident stabbing in Sydney.

“(He was going on about) it’s a big conspiracy about the jab, and we’re all getting followed, and we’re all dead anyway.”

Article
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August 25, 2024 4:01pm
vand

So, what part of the abortion law allows that to happen?

An abortion can only happen after 20 weeks if

GHOST Provision of abortion services to women more than 20 weeks pregnant

what does clinically appropriate mean?
A very anxious (“mental heath”?) potential mother who regrets not aborting earlier or is it her physical health placing her life in danger- and what does overall well being mean ? i have no idea-who does ?-I guess it’s more straight forward to dispose of by crushing the skull within 20 weeks
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August 25, 2024 4:20pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

But what’s happening to all those poor girls who used to run the visitor tours?

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/526119/tui-brewery-in-mangatainoka-no-longer-producing-beer-after-130-years
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August 25, 2024 4:51pm
- Jack5
  
  Great Tui ads they were …
  
  https://youtu.be/YppmWzDXMZs?si=6-33CIvEixsa_j87
  
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  August 25, 2024 9:37pm
Ghost

Hmmm, I don’t know much about this case, but the video was interesting. No idea if it is genuine

I’ve got an ANONYMOUS LETTER regarding SCOTT WATSON and the SOUNDS MURDERS
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August 25, 2024 5:01pm
- Jack5
  
  Listened for ten minutes.
  
  Wasn’t clear in that time what was in the “anonymous letter” and what was background provided by the narrator.
  
  Sounded like the letter was bringing in, or trying to bring in, gangs and cocaine smuggling from a South American “mother ship”.
  
  This report says NZ cocaine use has been doubling in the last year or so, but I take the inference the cocaine surge is fairly recent.
  
  The result from Scott Watson’s second appeal wouldn’t be known for months, according to media reports in June.
  
  The murders of Ben Hope and Olivia Smart occurred more than a quarter of a century ago.
  
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  August 25, 2024 6:03pm
  - Ghost
    
    I gave up about 5 minutes after posting that, started to wonder if someone fed in a few details to AI and asked it to give them a story.
    
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    August 25, 2024 6:07pm
greybeard

This is very minor, I will admit, but it is one of those things which really annoys me.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350390845/two-hurt-after-crash-involving-police-car-and-quad-bike
You cannot have a “quad bike”.
A “bike” has 2 wheels, it is a bicycle. “Bi” means TWO.
A “quad” has 4 wheels, it is a quadricycle. “Quad” means FOUR.
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August 25, 2024 6:24pm
- greybeard
  
  Three downticks !
  Or should that be “Tri-downs”, as “Tri” means 3 ?
  
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  August 25, 2024 7:23pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Just call it a waka… and you’ve got all your transport options covered.
  
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  August 25, 2024 9:08pm
Ghost

Now we wait for the Māori party meltdown

A law change is set to result in only 5% of New Zealand’s coastline being awarded as customary marine title, documents obtained by 1News suggest.

The suggestion was made by Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith in a private meeting with Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones and seafood industry representatives in May.

Article
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August 25, 2024 6:42pm
Jack5

UK Labour and universities block free speech move …

Britain’s Education Minister, Bridget Phillipson, is shelving Conservative legislation on free speech at universities, and she’s shelving it at the behest of Briltish universities.

They alleged the imminent new law might have caused British universities “consequences” in dealings with authoritarian countries and would have opened the universities to expensive legal challenges if academics fell foul of the new law.

The Telegraph newspaper says 18 universities have 38 campuses in 18 countries, with China and Malaysia the most popular national sites, followed by Dubai and Singapore.

The Conservatives’ Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023 was to have come into force in a few days.

[Mod – fixed]
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August 25, 2024 9:12pm
Jack5

Battle on in Israel …

Hezbollah has launched hundreds of rockets and drones against Israel after about 100 Israeli jets, in pre-emptive strikes, attacked more than 40 Hezbollah rocket-launch sites in southern Lebanon.

Hezbolla says its barrage was retaliation for the assassination of a senior commander in Beirut last month.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-strikes-hezbollah-targets-lebanon-military-says-2024-08-25/
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August 25, 2024 9:33pm

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