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August 20, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 August 2024

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artemisia

Herald today (paywalled)Ad industry anger: Top creative agencies miss out in Govt crackdown on public spending

They may not be Mad Men, but not sure the angry ad industry and the Comms Council are doing themselves any favours when businesses are closing and thousands of jobs are being chopped. Or by describing the process as “speaking to the procurement team has at times felt like discussing gravity with flat earthers”.

But MBIE has defended its actions, saying it has been acting in the best interests of taxpayers, with expected savings of 20-22% for public sector companies. Quite right too.
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August 20, 2024 8:05am
- Gravelroad
  
  Good on MBIE then.
  Many of these comms and advertising agencies and consultants have made an absolute financial killing as the result of the river of money which flowed from the previous government for their PR entitlements.
  Times change.
  Their delusions of grandeur might be slipping away as current reality sets in.
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:48am
  - artemisia
    
    To be fair, the agencies were engaged by the public sector that was following government orders with its associated funding.
    
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    August 20, 2024 9:07am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Oh no the ad men have been woken up in quite another manner. My heart is bleeding for them. We should maybe crowd fund some patronising ads made to ridiculously high technical standards employing hundreds and shot in 65mm negative.
    
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    August 20, 2024 9:26am
  - PurplePen
    
    Get rid of all the logos, graphics and design etc from all depts and ministries too. Complete waste of taxpayers funds and resource. Do it right as in this exemplar from the Government of Wales ..
    
    https://www.gov.wales/
    
    Note also how exceptionally well they implement the bilingual. None of this mixing of two languages together. That’s my rant for the morning. It’s too sunny outside to do more.
    
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    August 20, 2024 9:54am
  - Paulus
    
    Blimey, MBIE do something right !
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:46am
- slightlyrighty
  
  It seems that being the paid mouthpiece of the government pays quite well, or should I say, used to pay quite well.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:10am
  - Colville
    
    I go to Wellington often for the night to see Number One Son ( who is a happy state servant)
    I note that in the last year hotel prices have plummeted… Not halved but almost. Restaurants are empty… And it’s all because the govt has turned off the magic money fountain.
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:00am
    - Tarquin North
      
      In an earlier life I used to do a lot of work for agencies. The amount we charged was extortionate so god only knows what they were charging. Back then they used to laugh about charging government departments 30% more.
      
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      August 20, 2024 10:21am
    - Bloody Dago
      
      Varadkar-is-Biden-is-Sunak-is-Ardern-is-Starmer-is-Macron-is-Albanese-is-Trudeau. Four down four to go😂🤣😂🤣
      
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      August 20, 2024 12:09pm
- Sacha
  
  He who pays the Piper calls the tune.
  Has ever been so.
  
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  August 20, 2024 11:09am
- Surely Knott
  
  Good work MBIE. But what’s up at Auckland Uni.
  
  They are large scale cutting courses (core business).
  
  And yet are funding (amount unknown) a leading agency to do a series of ads called “chat the weird out” Including talking to your flatmate about pubic hair on shared soap (i kid you not), or helping a person at the gym and being in their space, or hitting on someone while you are studying .
  
  Maybe Auckland Uni could consider dropping fees instead of sports stadium naming rights or weird irrelevant ads. Who approved this.
  
  https://www.mad-daily.com/uni-campaign-tackles-awkward-chats/
  
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  August 20, 2024 1:06pm
Matt Long

One county in the US, Marin County north of of SF, has reduced rates of Autism while other rates are accelerating. How did they achieve this?
One factor could be a reduction in Childhood vaccination rates.
https://about.heal.earth/news/good-news/marin-county-reports-decline-in-autism-rates
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August 20, 2024 8:08am
- softail 1450
  
  Matt Long ,Nah, Tedros reckons that sort of stuff happening all around the planet is just a coincidence, EG, Portugal have reported the highest rate of excess deaths in the developed world and oh shit they also bragged they had the highest vaccination rate in the 1st world , just a coincidence though 😂😂😂.
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:26am
  - MCōs
    
    All sorts of strange religious rituals have their origins in some long forgotten coincidence
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:04am
  - p5
    
    Neither does Portugal have the highest rate of vaccinations nor does it have the highest rate of excess deaths. It takes skill to be this wrong.
    
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    August 20, 2024 11:18am
- David Garrett
  
  Oh dear. As I repeatedly tell my children, they need to carefully examine the source of information before they accept it as being worth something. Just because “it’s on the internet” proves nothing.
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:36am
  - All_on_Red
    
    You are right about the Internet but perhaps a more nuanced take is appropriate.
    A Peer Reviewed Study was undertaken and published after all.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32193763/
    Maybe there is something to it? Don’t know. But by the same token claiming ‘The answer is simple: stop vaccinating the kids. That’s why at Heal Earth we are calling for a moratorium on childhood vaccines’ is hyperbolic and ridiculous.
    Is it worthy of further research? Probably
    
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    August 20, 2024 8:47am
    - David Garrett
      
      All on: Someone better informed than me might like to comment, but IIRC ONE study some years ago suggested a causal link between the MMR vaccine and autism. That study was examined closely – proponents of this theory would probably say picked apart – and was found to be flawed.
      
      All I can say – and I know anecdote is not evidence – is that of the 200 or so kids my kids went through school with, I know of no cases of autism. And being at a country school – where the parents were by and large very sensible people – I suspect the great majority of the kids received every vaccine going – as mine did.
      
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      August 20, 2024 8:53am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        OK I will respond.
        
        There is no link between childhood vaccination rates and autism. That link has been debunked.
        
        Marin County is one of the wealthiest places in the USA. It also has one of the highest COVID vaccination rates for children in the USA. 80 percent of children are fully vaccinated for COVID. So they were scared of measles vaccines, but embraced COVID vaccines for their children.
        
        That is very odd. But that is Marin County. 😫
        
        https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/02/us/covid-vaccine-marin-california.html
        
        The point is that rich, Democrat centric parents in California do odd things. They follow fads. For a long time rates of autism diagnosis rose in high income groups. Now this rates are plummeting. It is poor black children with high rates of autism. Not many of those in Marin County.
        
        https://safeminds.org/news/socioeconomic-racial-divide-in-autism-numbers/
        
        Whatever is going on with autism in Marin County, it has nothing to do with measles vaccines, COVID vaccines, or any other vaccines.
        
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        August 20, 2024 8:57am
      - Matt Long
        
        Having been involved with a Church creche where most of the children were showing autistic spectrum behavior there a problem which is getting worse.
        My own view is that a lot of the issue is dietary, but a good axiom when it comes to health is that all symptoms are over determined.
        
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        August 20, 2024 9:04am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Fair enough DG
        Thanks Benedict- interesting-wasnt aware of that.
        The complete anti Vax stance is dumb.
        Our family is all vaccinated but we stopped at two Jabs for Covid as none of us felt it necessary to have more. We have two boys under 18 and my wife and I are healthy and fit.
        
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        August 20, 2024 9:05am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “That study was examined closely – proponents of this theory would probably say picked apart – and was found to be flawed.”
        
        The study was not flawed. It was fraud.
        
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/
        
        The principal author, Andrew Wakefield, was stripped of his medical licence.
        
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        August 20, 2024 9:09am
      - Fender
        
        All I can say – and I know anecdote is not evidence – is that of the 200 or so kids my kids went through school with, I know of no cases of autism. And being at a country school – where the parents were by and large very sensible people – I suspect the great majority of the kids received every vaccine going – as mine did.
        Except you are thinking the vaccines are identical now to what your children received back then which I very highly doubt. Vaccines are often combined now, is there something that happens unexpectedly because of this?, there are new vaccines added that your generation didn’t get, they have probably been re-engineered constantly to save costs or make more efficient. Any number of things that “could” be causing differing effects from the very basic early vaccines you and my children received.
        Autism is also a spectrum, I don’t recall any of my children’s school friends either but I do work in a school now and the rate of autistic and other disabilities is off the charts,growing every year noticeably. Some of it is just people giving a name or excuse to bad or previously undiagnosed behavior but something has also changed the actual rates as well.
        
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        August 20, 2024 11:44am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @fender
        
        When I went through primary school kids with intellectual impairments were not mainstreamed.
        
        Some attended special schools like Sunnydene in Auckland.
        
        I don’t think there was much pressure for parents to send their “special” children to school regularly.
        
        One of my male primary teachers would regularly take a “problem” boy from another class for a few weeks. I s’pose nowadays we’d classify that boy as having ADHD.
        
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        August 20, 2024 12:49pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Benedict Yu
        OK I will respond.
        
        There is no link between childhood vaccination rates and autism. That link has been debunked.
        
        Benedict,
        
        [1] Irrespective of the rightness or wrongness of your idea, using the term “has been debunked” is unprofessional, and on par with calling someone “a science denier”, “conspiracy theorist”, or in slang terms a ‘Wayne Kerr’. The reason being that it does not in any way inform the reader of the truth, just someone’s slanted view of it.
        
        [2] Just because someone has dis-proven something, or a causal link, does not mean that everyone else/someone else/something else, in a different context, location, format, circumstance, etc has NOT proven a casual link.
        
        Example1: Thomas Edison had the idea that if he could make a light bulb, by passing current through a conductor in a vacuum. Other people though he was mad. He tried thousands of tests, and each failed test, from an outsiders point of view, debunked that idea.m Until it worked.
        
        [2] Outliers and anecdotal information (in relation to vaccines.)
        
        It it quite normal in research, that trends and breakthroughs are discovered by outliers, anecdotal information, and anomalies.
        
        A large study of 1000 patients is carried out, and shows that XYZ vaccine does not have side effects. If a local GP notices that 3 out of 20 patients that took XYZ vaccine, got painful and persistent rashes, his idea that the XYZ has side effects is NOT debunked by the large study.
        
        Upon investigation, many things can explain the “1000 – 0%” side effects, vs the “3 – 15%” side effects. Include corruption, bribery, blackmail or just shoddy testing.
        
        If we believe the NZ general health narrative that Covid vaccines are 100% safe, anyone who is content with listening to the voice of authority will accept that.
        
        If however like myself, you have encountered dozens of people with verified vaccine side effects, and people who have died, or fighting for their lives, you have a different perspective.
        
        And in addition to that, communication with GPs, medical professionals, specialists, doctors, nurses, vaccinators, vaccine clinic managers, etc who convey the same side effects / deaths information, you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to accept the reality that the official version is wrong.
        
        So you can either be a parrot and repeat what you have been told or read. Or you can knuckle down and do so simple research. Simple quoting studies or articles, is simply parroting other people’s viewpoints.
        
        As a researcher and analyst (in addition to my other roles) I never pass judgement on a narrative solely based on what I “feel” is right. I investigate, so that I understand the scientific/medical/technology principles concerned. I prefer to speak from informed experience than something I have read.
        
        [3] And as a last point, vaccine efficacy and safety outcomes are not universal. All vaccines are not created equal. Some vaccines are not even vaccines and/or deviate from the original principle of a vaccine. Others just work.
        
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        August 20, 2024 12:58pm
      - James Stephenson
        
        If I were a cynical man, I might suggest that autism is out of fashion and if you really want to be centre of attention at the right dinner parties these days, then what you need is a Trans child (I mean, look at the rate of incidence in Celebrity circles…)
        
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        August 20, 2024 1:11pm
      - mawm
        
        Benedict – “There is no link between childhood vaccination rates and autism. That link has been debunked.”
        
        In response Andrew Wakefield was probably correct in what he said.
        
        What did he say in his hypothesis? “We describe a pattern of colitis and ileal-lymphoidnodular hyperplasia in children with developmental disorders. Intestinal and behavioural pathologies may have occurred together by chance, reflecting a selection bias in a self-referred group; however, the uniformity of the intestinal pathological changes and the fact that previous studies have found intestinal dysfunction in children with autistic-spectrum disorders, suggests that the connection is real and reflects a unique disease process.” and “If there is a causal link between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and this syndrome, a rising incidence might be anticipated after the introduction of this vaccine in the UK in 1988.” Read the paper!
        https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2897%2911096-0/fulltext
        
        After this the Pharma – medical and the Pharma – media complexes went into attack mode as there was a threat to the profits of big Pharma. Wakefield was denigrated in the medical and lay press. His only error was probably the size of his sample – 12 patients.
        
        There are a number of recently published scientific papers that have looked at the relationship between the gut biome and autism. eg – “Role of Gut Microbiome in Autism Spectrum Disorder and Its Therapeutic Regulation” (July 22)
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9355470/
        “Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is a neurological disorder that affects normal brain development. The recent finding of the microbiota–gut–brain axis indicates the bidirectional connection between our gut and brain, demonstrating that gut microbiota can influence many neurological disorders such as autism.”
        
        And vaccines and the gut biome -eg – “Modulation of immune responses to vaccination by the microbiota: implications and potential mechanisms” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9355470/
        
        And in this comment by Zimmerman on “The immunological interplay between vaccination and the intestinal microbiota. (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41541-023-00627-9) on his own recent publication (Zimmermann, P. et al. Correlation of vaccine responses. Front. Immunol. 12, 646677 (2021).)
        
        Essentially Wakefield was pointing to an altered gut microbiome which he hypothesised resulted in the local immunological response (ileal-lymphoidnodular hyperplasia) which lead on to autism.
        It’s a long response to a complex situation, and I’m only just touching on it. Read the above papers and the papers referred to and you’ll see that he was probably correct.
        
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        August 20, 2024 3:39pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      More evidence that the COVID shots did NOT reduce mortality
      The Lancet paper claimed 20M lives have been saved by the COVID shots. Two data sources (both in public view for years) show the shots were all downside risk.
      
      https://open.substack.com/pub/stevekirsch/p/more-evidence-that-the-covid-shots?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
      
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      August 20, 2024 1:03pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Good grief. I give up on this blog.
        
        I have previously posted extensive rebuttals to your rubbish with cited data. Instead of responding, you just post more rubbish.
        
        Climate change and covid vaccines. The contemporary triggers to so many losing their minds.
        
        And today we even get a defence of Andrew Wakefield, who should rightly be in prison.
        
        So good luck. I will look for another forum.
        
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        August 20, 2024 4:25pm
      - mawm
        
        The problem Benedict is that you are just regurgitating what was used in an attack on Wakefield without having read it and decided for yourself what was being said about him was correct or not.
        
        Secondly – Wakefield was not “stripped” of his medical licence.
        
        Thirdly – did you actually read anything that I linked to in his defence or why I was even defending him? I know you didn’t because you have not come up with any criticism of what I have written. The research with modern understanding of immunology and the function of the gut biome and the collections of lymphocytes in the bowel wall, none of which was known at that time, now backs up his thesis (which you have not read and but will continue to criticise).
        
        Any respect I had for you has gone. You know nothing of immunology, his thesis, medicine, scientific inquiry and why he was so severely criticised. Following the herd does not make you right.
        
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        August 20, 2024 8:33pm
  - Matt Long
    
    The source is suspicious, but which part of the data is incorrect?
    Is it that the ASDs have decreased in Marin county?
    That childhood vaccination rates have declined?
    Or that there’s a causal relationship between the two?
    Maybe ASDs have decreased in Marin county due to my picking up a speeding ticket there just prior to this data set taking effect.
    
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    August 20, 2024 8:56am
    - newview
      
      If the source is suspicious why read it. What’s the point. Maybe, might be, could have. Just another rabbit hole.
      
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      August 20, 2024 9:10am
  - Grunter
    
    After the COVID debacle, I now question pretty much every “source of the truth”.
    
    Trust in Govt = 0
    Trust in the Pharmaceutical industry = 0
    Trust in MSM = 0
    Trust in ‘Experts’ = 0
    
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    August 20, 2024 8:57am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I more or less agree with you. However scepticism of all those sources applied before COVID. Did you believe everything that Jacinda told you in 2017, 2018, and 2019? 😳
      
      The best thing we can do for our children is to allow them to think freely and to conduct sufficient analysis to draw their own conclusions. Sadly, plummeting numeracy, literacy, and liberal doses of Matauranga Maori will not allow that.
      
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      August 20, 2024 9:21am
      - PurplePen
        
        Odd, that’s what the “new” education method was supposed to be. Don’t teach them facts. Teach them how to enquire, search, find results for themselves. Hasn’t worked judging by complaints from generations when asked about why they don’t vote in local elections, as one example. They moan … I can’t find anything about the candidates, I can’t find where to send the voting papers.
        
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        August 20, 2024 9:58am
      - Mike
        
        Often very highly educated and skilled people can get things amazingly wrong too:
        https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nobel_disease
        
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        August 20, 2024 10:23am
      - Paulus
        
        Isn’t Jacinda in Chicago to preach to the so called Democrat Conference what a wonderful world she achieved, so that Kamala can listen to and learn from what she has to say ?
        Along with Hilary C, Dr Jill, Nancy P, and other feminist Luminaries, so that the USA can have its first so called Lady President, despite many of Afro American women do not like her as she is Indian/Jamaican and not Afro extraction
        The Democrats, like the Labour here, are pushing the woman vote, as they believe that here another Ardern like will win the election.
        .
        
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        August 20, 2024 10:59am
      - Fender
        
        The best thing we can do for our children is to allow them to think freely and to conduct sufficient analysis to draw their own conclusions. Sadly, they have been told and believe that google is god, Its a noun for information, ask any child
        
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        August 20, 2024 11:52am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Mike
        Often very highly educated and skilled people can get things amazingly wrong too.
        
        A lazy mind bases the truth on who said it.
        
        A sharp mind bases the truth on what is said and how it aligns with reality.
        
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        August 20, 2024 1:18pm
    - MCōs
      
      Why do you vote?
      Why do you take any sort of medication?
      Do you disbelieve everything you read/see in the MSM, but take the word of some fool on social media?
      Would you trust your own judgement over an engineer when calculating member sizes for a five metre retaining wall behind your house? (Presuming your not an engineer yourself)
      
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      August 20, 2024 10:14am
      - Paulus
        
        Problem with Local and Regional Councillors is that nobody will bother to vote as a wasted one, as the Council Staff control every thing and the Councillors voted there are only there to to whitewash the Executive and their outside splinter groups.
        Remember there is only one Employer in all Councils and that is the CEO, not the Mayor nor Councillors.
        
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        August 20, 2024 11:04am
    - Fender
      
      Come on Bill Gates is a genius, worked in a garage and there aren’t many smarter than him surely? /sa
      
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      August 20, 2024 11:48am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Source proves nothing not just on the internet. The govt and media are not single sources of truth either. Reading it in a book, or newspaper doesn’t make it true. Read critically and widely. There are plenty of great and qualified internet sources.
    
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    August 20, 2024 9:08am
    - David Garrett
      
      Surely: Oh I agree there are some excellent source on the net…I have also seen some very professional looking sites which contain absolute rußbbish
      
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      August 20, 2024 12:36pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Or sites like the NIH which contain the actual data that disproves the common narratives the directors or associates are pushing.
        
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        August 20, 2024 1:07pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Oh dear. As I repeatedly tell my children, they need to carefully examine the source of information before they accept it as being worth something.
    
    [1] When it comes health, especially of children, it is wise to overlay that with the “precautionary principle.”
    
    Just because “it’s on the internet” proves nothing.
    
    [2] Agreed, you have to encourage them to do the research. The internet is simply a means of communication of information and ideas. The internet is neither good nor bad.
    
    Is there an alternative to your “it’s on the internet”?
    
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    August 20, 2024 1:04pm
- Inandout
  
  ML, I remember some parents withholding childhood vaccines because of the danger of autism. I also recall some of these parents being of the Greenish tint and living in places like Khandalla. Then along came the famous Covid scare and the whole scene changed as the Green tinged proclaimed their love for the new vaccine and annointed Jacinda as a saint. They lined up to get their children jabbed by the new wonder vaccine. Fucking hypocrites.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:15am
  - David Garrett
    
    Inand: I would have said fucking fools would be more accurate
    
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    August 20, 2024 12:38pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    And the Green tinged idiots rebelling against GM foods and GM substances injected into animals (which is actually a good ethical stance), but then embracing GM substances being injected into humans.
    
    Which just goes to prove that the Green tinged idiots were never Green, but simply following the puppet-masters money.
    
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    August 20, 2024 1:11pm
kevn

Keep the DNC away?
https://notthebee.com/article/free-abortions-and-vasectomies-to-be-offered-at-democratic-national-convention
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August 20, 2024 8:15am
- All_on_Red
  
  What a bunch of weirdos. Actually, scratch that- a bunch of violent weirdos
  Businesses are covering the windows of their stores with boarding to prevent damage as they anticipate rioting and looting.
  https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1825245494886781167?
  That didn’t happen at the RNC Convention
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:26am
- emmess
  
  Go on, try and tell us that they don’t have an antinatalist depopulation agenda
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:27am
- softail 1450
  
  Kevn, vasectomies and abortions are diametrically opposed ,one is sensible cheap birth control whilst the other is birth control for lazy loose women ( in the majority of cases) who don’t know how to keep themselves safe or keep their legs together ,my neighbour reckons that certain woman actually enjoy the process of abortion and that would explain why the silly women go back 6 / 7 or 8 times FFS.
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:35am
  - MCōs
    
    I suggest you get a second opinion
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:19am
  - imalwaysright
    
    I find it difficult to understand why killing a child is, for some women, such a fiercely guarded expression of free will and female human rights.
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:54am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I’m guessing that you are a man. That is probably a factor in your lack of understanding.
      
      BTW contrary to a claim that you recently aimed at me, I see no evidence that the moderators “filter” replies to my comments. The moderation of this blog is very light handed. I don’t have some special deal with the moderators. I have no idea of their identities.
      
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      August 20, 2024 3:22pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Yes, I did make a claim that you get special treatment and my claim was “moderated”.
        Could you please show my claim, in the interest of fairness?
        
        I can’t find it. Funny that.
        
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        August 20, 2024 5:49pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Why is my gender relevant to my appreciation of the value of human life?
        
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        August 20, 2024 5:50pm
- kowtow
  
  yer cos the people running it have already had a frontal lobotomy.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:01am
artemisia

Tenancy Tribunal July 2024. Just four of the decisions on applications brought by Kainga Ora totalled astonishing rent arrears of $57,972. Four.

And those cases were by no means the only successful rent arrears applications by KO in July. Let’s not forget that KO rents are almost always heavily subsidised aka cheap.

I am sure that there was a lot of KO effort into resolving what could be complex issues, but still … All those ‘hard working taxpayers’ who do pay their rent and bills should be outraged at that level of taking the proverbial.
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August 20, 2024 8:19am
- Gravelroad
  
  In the private sector, plenty of people get asked to leave their accommodation if they can’t or wont pay the rent.
  But seems to be different for KO tenants.
  Why is that?
  Are KO tenants exempt from paying rent if it doesn’t suit them?
  Lots of people out here struggle to pay, but keep trying in order to secure their accommodation.
  Some people more equal than others in the rent markets perhaps.
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:38am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Maybe it’s the special people.
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:49am
  - artemisia
    
    Decisions in the Tenancy Tribunal often but not always have the names of the parties. The names can give a bit of a clue. Just a bit of a clue, mind.
    
    Almost always the losing party has their name/s published. The TT name search function is used extensively by landlords looking to fill a vacant rental. Funny that.
    
    Not wanting to bang on about the TT but would just say the decisions are often very detailed and can provide a fascinating insight into applicant’s thought processes. One recent decision, the tenant applied for $100,000 from the landlord over a long list of items. Every item was dismissed by the TT adjudicator. Payment zero.
    
    Anyone considering a rental property investment is well advised to spend a few hours reading decisions.
    
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    August 20, 2024 11:14am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      The flip side is that the TT tribunal will also rule against those property owners who blatantly break the law.
      
      When I first came to New Zealand I rented a little apartment. Turns out there was a leak in the roof. The owner refused to fix it. Then came a big storm.
      
      I had photos, and documentation. The hearing lasted about 2 minutes and I received compensation for my damaged possessions.
      
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      August 20, 2024 11:33am
      - artemisia
        
        That is as it should be BY. In fact landlords should be treated more severely in the Tenancy Tribunal as they are expected to know the law.
        
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        August 20, 2024 12:30pm
- MCōs
  
  The late Penny Bright was allowed to run up $34,000 in rates arrears to the Auckland CC on some spurious grounds over 11yrs while the rest of us dutifully scratched around for the money
  She was constantly being threatened with having her house sold out from under her, but it never happened
  She used to argue the toss on this very forum and I think there was some sadness when she succumbed to cancer.
  
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  August 20, 2024 10:35am
  - Biscuit
    
    Ah, MCōs. it’s been almost 6 years since Penny left us.
    
    Boy, she could be an ornery so-and-so … but she was FUN.
    
    I remember reading that she wanted her (long-suffering, ha) partner to put an epitaph on her gravestone that read: “She gave it a***holes.”
    
    Anyone know if that happened?
    
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    August 20, 2024 11:09am
    - David Garrett
      
      Biscuit: I agree Old Penny could be fun…she could also be a complete dingbat…I used to pretend I was in love with her.
      
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      August 20, 2024 12:46pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Pretend ?? aww c’mon DG 😉
        
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        August 20, 2024 1:02pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    IIRC her home was not sold because she settled with the council. IIRC the council agreed hold off until she died and the money came from her estate. Anyway, I am fairly sure that she council got the money.
    
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    August 20, 2024 11:38am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Kamala will just snatch the Patents if drug companies don’t play fair.
She is a threat to democracy.

https://feedsnorth.com/kamalas-brilliant-idea-lets-just-snatch-patents-and-call-it-fair/
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August 20, 2024 8:33am
- Bridgenag
  
  Frightening that we have Kamala lovers here
  
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  August 20, 2024 1:09pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    They probably vote for her as well//
    
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    August 20, 2024 3:13pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Sadly it appears the brain of Bob Jones has been infected. Poor chap.
    
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    August 20, 2024 8:09pm
G the giant from Dunedin

The left are fuming at one news varian poll showing the coalition are rock solid in support.

The anger on social media and stupidity of posts is astounding. The problem for the left is inflation down, interest rates now dropping, departmental costs are being driven down, ghez people will start to feel their lives are turning around with their tax adjustment.

Also heard the seek job adverts are up, and even hospitality numbers are up 3% in July.

The left are going to be far more angrier and it will see the centre right start to move up the polls, Labour have absolutely nothing to offer, with total losers still in the same portfolios, Hipkins spouting bullshit about how things are so bad, they are bad because of him and his Marxist agenda. He went to Auckland to start to try and get Auckland voters back and visited a shop owned by Muslim’s, how deluded and crazy is this fool?
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August 20, 2024 8:42am
- pdm
  
  G – imagine how good the polls could be if Luxon hardened up a bit and got more of the things people voted for done.
  
  Instead of leaving the front running on the hard stuff to ACT.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:31am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Well I can only see him doing things people other for, this stuff that he is just doing what Labour did but better while he is canning virtually everything they introduced says that is bullshit
    
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    August 20, 2024 9:35am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      OK whatever language that was, I have literally no idea what it means. 🤔
      
      12 2
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      August 20, 2024 12:02pm
      - Ghost
        
        I believe it is
        
        “ Well I can only see him doing things people voted for”
        
        5 1
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        August 20, 2024 12:14pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Doing things people voted for, where people get this crap he is doing things people did not vote for then I end up jumbling my words 😊
        
        1 3
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        August 20, 2024 1:39pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Addendum. I think I understand the last bit. You are claiming that the Government is reversing everything that “Labour did”. Well they did some of that but not in critical areas.
      
      Did they reverse the bloated growth of the public service? No they wound back 20 percent of the bloat.
      
      Did they remove Matauranga Maori from the science curriculum? No
      
      Did they abolish Jacinda’s Public Service Act 2020 and the horror that it entails? No.
      
      Did they take an axe to the Ministry of Education, an organisation that Chris Hipkins took from bloated to a giant horror story? No.
      
      Did they repeal the Zero Carbon Act? No.
      
      Did they tackle the hideous waste in local government by amending the Local Government Act? No.
      
      Did they stand up to the Public Service when the public servants, mostly, refused point blank to give English primacy in communications? No.
      
      …. I can go on and on and on.
      
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      August 20, 2024 12:11pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        End Willis said more bureaucracy will be wiped out, the population did grow by 300 k, so there will be need for some burecrats, anyone suggesting they have finished clearly is not listening, health will be gutted very soon from the bureaucracy bloat, some of the rest of what you have written is in the same basket, education for instance has just gutted the bullshit polite shambles, give them a chance, and don’t forget Willis has stated the bureaucratic blood letting will be on going
        
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        August 20, 2024 1:45pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Ghost yes that’s right, predictive texting often has a mind of its own
      
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      August 20, 2024 1:40pm
    - John Loveridge
      
      Have a second cup of coffee before posting, G.
      
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      August 20, 2024 5:29pm
  - Scott
    
    pdm – I disagree and here’s why. Luxon is being the calm moderate chairman of the board. He is inoffensive and doesn’t give too much for the wokesters to get upset about.
    
    But he’s heading up a coalition where Seymour and Peters can implement their policies which is smart politics. Act and NZ First voters can see that their leaders are getting stuff done.
    
    Talking to a group of older conservatives this week and they’re happy with the govt. Maori health authority is gone, 3 waters is gone. We even like the getting rid of the road cones and getting open road speeds back.
    
    So the coalition is working well in my opinion.
    
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    August 20, 2024 9:45am
    - Damocles11
      
      How can ACT ‘implement policies’ when woke corporate Luxon is blocking them?!
      
      7 2
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      August 20, 2024 10:18am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Act will get all their polices that are in the coalition agreement, what are you talking about, the 8% party can not start dictating outside this term, and any voter expecting that would be the case is very foolish
        
        1 2
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        August 20, 2024 1:50pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Depends on your aspirations. All those things are good but they will not save the country.
      
      My theory. People are so traumitised by the madness of the preceeding six years that they now celebrate any half sensible decisions. Those are great, but to repeat, they will not save the country.
      
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      August 20, 2024 12:16pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I am so sick of people rubbishing Luxon, he stated his full time job will be holding the coalition together, filthy media again today trying to drive a wedge saying Seymour is doing some bullshit to hit back at Nats and NZF over treaty principles, all he said is it’s the democratic thing to do,.
      
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      August 20, 2024 1:48pm
  - PurplePen
    
    He could take a leaf out of Simeon Brown’s book. He’s an action man, not afraid to make a move. He might not get it right all the time, and no-one will. But at least he effects good change for the most part.
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:01am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      If you are talking Luxon then he is not a minister, so no he won’t be like Brown, if you are talking Seymour he is getting everything signed in the coalition including treaty principles to first reading
      
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      August 20, 2024 1:51pm
  - Ghost
    
    So if national were more like act they’d copy act in the polls? Act have gone down in every poll except last night where they remained the same. NZ first are at 6%. Maybe, just maybe WHT kiwibkoggers think the govt should do, the public don’t.
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:03am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      The public don’t know. Well not enough of them. Government is about leadership. See Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson. Yes before my time but I can read.
      
      4 2
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      August 20, 2024 12:38pm
  - Colville
    
    Pdm.
    Luxon needs the soft squishy center to vote for him and at the moment that center is decidedly lefty (after 6 years of Jacinda of the Plauge) so don’t expect change.
    Luxon knows he can’t fix anything from the opposition benches!
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:09am
  - Paulus
    
    I am a firm Coalition voter but am seriously considering moving from National to another party at the next election as Luxon is not doing what I worked for in electing him.
    On Maori matters let us have a referendum on what the modern interpretation of Treaty stands for – no change to the Treaty, only its theoretical today’s interpretation.
    So called mixed Maori are still only around 15% or less of the total population, that what we are intended to believe that they can override the 85% balance in everything.
    
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    August 20, 2024 11:14am
    - Damocles11
      
      Why is it such a massive decision to move away from National to another party? I’m not sure what else ACT can do to establish their bona fides in the eyes of the right voting public, surely they have been around long enough now, and we can see the fantastic efforts if the likes if David Seymour and Karen Chhour. No party should have a mortgage over anyones vote.
      
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      August 20, 2024 12:26pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Maybe, but no act supporter should tell others why they should do as you did ffs
        
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        August 20, 2024 1:54pm
      - Damocles11
        
        What did I ‘tell someone to do’?
        I wouldn’t even class myself as a permanent ACT supporter, whereas you are clearly rabidly tribal National.
        
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        August 20, 2024 3:32pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      That is not Nat policy or NZF, go vote for someone else but it makes not difference
      
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      August 20, 2024 1:53pm
    - Ghost
      
      Luxon isn’t doing what you voted for? The treaty principles has nothing to do with national, they never campaigned on it. What they did campaign on they are slowly working through. If you wanted the act bill, and voted for national, then you were stupid.
      
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      August 20, 2024 2:03pm
  - greybeard
    
    I agree, and here is my email from yesterday to HDPA & Hosking:
    ” David Seymour is the only sensible MP and Minister we have: Luxon has made a terrible mistake with his attitude to the Treaty Principles Bill.
    Has Luxon actually asked his National Party MPs and members and voters if they would support Seymour’s Bill ?”
    
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    August 20, 2024 2:02pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Another one, National may as well puss into the wind on treaty principles, again, NZF are totally opposed, no nzf vote then no law change, why do you drum beaters always forget the inconvenient things
      
      3 1
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      August 20, 2024 2:16pm
- Bloody Dago
  
  When will these idiots understand that this woke rubbish only turns the participants heads away from the real important focus of a global world that generally works with an inclusive disposition to our combined betterment
  
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  August 20, 2024 12:17pm
greybeard

Place your bets folks: will Jacinda address the DNC attendees as “comrades” ?
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August 20, 2024 8:48am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  She has a damehood these days…we are no longer her comrades…
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:55am
  - kowtow
    
    Serfs is how they see and treat us.
    
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    August 20, 2024 9:01am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Some of us never were.
    
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    August 20, 2024 9:16am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Jacinda is a trustafarian now
    
    15 1
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    August 20, 2024 9:19am
  - Inandout
    
    Maggy, Sir Keir is a Knight of the Realm but actually has comrades among the Blairites. The lower classes don’t rate in his push, unless they happen to be Muslim.
    
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    August 20, 2024 9:20am
  - Burtland
    
    marxist in race and gender but not class – just another opportunist
    
    12 1
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    August 20, 2024 9:21am
- Im Right
  
  She is not part of the ‘main stage’ Greybeard, but an offshoot part of the conference, so the size of the audience will determine who is speaking before or after her.
  She will take as many speaking gigs as possible until she is forgotten about, rake in the $$$$’s whilst the name recognition has not faded into nothingness.
  How very socialist of her, huge speaking fees, but ‘capitalism has failed’ heehee
  Look at all the failed socialist governments/countries and see how astonishingly wealthy the ‘top table’ were/are before fleeing and living in exile with all that filthy cash.
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:57am
  - Clyde
    
    She is a thoroughly evil woman who will do her level best to be seen as important. Have some security guards around, look important, frown a lot and lean the head to the left while slipping the account for her exalted presence to another leftie at the DNC. A repugnant piece of work.
    
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    August 20, 2024 9:24am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Plus NZ$57K from us for life.
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:55am
  - Paulus
    
    Who is paying for her ?
    
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    August 20, 2024 11:16am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      That’s her annual ex pm salary, it is for life, but what the poster did not tell you is it goes up with inflation every year, Key was 50 k, so Hipkins will be at 60 k probably as soon as he is rolled and scurries off
      
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      August 20, 2024 2:19pm
  - Philview
    
    No doubt the NZ media will spin this into her being the star of the Convention.
    
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    August 20, 2024 1:22pm
- David Garrett
  
  grey: You can bet your arse she won’t. One of the things that unites Americans is a hatred of “commies”. And being lazy Americans, no-one in the Democratic organization will look much beyond how amaze-balls she was during Covid.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:02am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Walz is a hard core China loving Communist who spent years taking young children to China showing them how great Communism is. He even got married on the 5th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre because “it’s a day I’ll never forget”.
    
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    August 20, 2024 9:11am
  - Colville
    
    DG.
    and you can bet she wont mention that she wants to ban all domestic firearm ownership.
    Even at the Dems Convention….that would see her burnt at the stake.
    
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    August 20, 2024 1:05pm
- Grunter
  
  “Comrade Kamala – you are sooo cool and kind……. puke, puke, slobber….!”
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:03am
- MCōs
  
  It’s the least one would expect
  They’re all rabid communists set upon destruction of the free world
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:21am
- RoboRob
  
  She wont, this is America after all. But she actually is a really good advisor to Kamala as they both have a lot in common. If Kamala wins it will be for the same reasons that Jacinda won…
  
  1. Both were unknowns teleported in to replace incredibly unpopular candidates.
  2. Both shuffled in by their parties so close to an election the public cant really get to know them.
  3. Both figureheads for the actual people behind the scenes.
  4. Both relying on the vibes and not actual policy.
  5. Both essentially supporting their parties existing policy but popular as woman and a breath of fresh air.
  6. Both trying to be as unknown as popular before the election
  7. Both airheads when not reading preprepared speeches.
  8. Both wave their bodies (hands and heads) around and speak in platitudes / riddles.
  
  Note: Yes Kamala is VP and you could argue that she is known. However in the US VP is generally an anonymous position and the majority of the population are not engaged enough in politics to know anything about her. I believe there was a poll that had more then 50% of people unable to even name the VP.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:33am
  - PurplePen
    
    You’re right in that all the above will contribute to the increase in solid votes. It’s a pity that don’t have a Winston to make the final call.
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:03am
    - RoboRob
      
      Sadly they don’t need Winston. Being a two party country FPP system all K needs to do is grab the Dem voters who had moved over to Trump back. Trump being as polarising as he is does not help the Rep cause.
      
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      August 20, 2024 10:41am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        If she follows Ardern in 2017 then she will be done like a dinner, the polls that had her as a worse support then Biden does not seem credible, and it is the states remember
        
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        August 20, 2024 2:21pm
  - Lance
    
    And Trump’s idiotic ramblings, deeply offensive blathering and cognitive decline have nothing to do with it?
    Not to mention the oldest presidential candidate ever.
    I don’t agree with all the Dems policies, but they were smart enough to dump their candidate liability.
    Maybe the GOP should consider doing the same?
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:31am
    - RoboRob
      
      Read my post. I was comparing Kamala and Jacinda, who in many ways are very similar and could win in the same manor.
      
      Of course Trump is a weak candidate. He was confirmed as candidate before the Dems dumped Biden. Trump would have beaten biden. They cant dump drump now as, unlike Biden, he was already confirmed at the convention.
      
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      August 20, 2024 1:11pm
  - slightlyrighty
    
    The fact that 50% of polled voters could not name the Vice President of their own country shows a lack of political engagement.
    
    6 1
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    August 20, 2024 11:16am
    - Colville
      
      do you think 50% of New Zealand could name the 2ic of the National Party?
      
      (at the mo’ my mind has gone blank! 🙂
      
      I know I know it…but best I can do at the mo’ is “not Stanford” ! )
      
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      August 20, 2024 1:07pm
      - Ghost
        
        Well Willis is on the news enough for people to know
        
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        August 20, 2024 2:07pm
  - Philview
    
    To be fair to Kamala she did some stuff prior rather then Jacinda’s going from University to a political party.
    
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    August 20, 2024 1:25pm
Im Right

KO, under Labour, were essentially a ‘no evict’ outfit.
Now that the govt has changed and bad tenants/non paying tenents are being kicked out….it’s National kicking the poor, bashing the rental sector blah blah blah
BUT, the left voting public are not all idiots and a helluva lot of them know of someone (friend or relative) living in a KO house who has been terrorised by a KO neighbour that ultimately would not be removed, no matter how many complaints were lodged. Now they are being evicted.
This is NOT a vote loser for this Govt, if anything probably a gain?!
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August 20, 2024 8:51am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Very very likely that those in charge of KO under the clown show caused the early graves of many elderly people (and others) terrorised by scum with nobody helping them.
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:18pm
Cassandra

National makes it clear that it won’t define the ToW’s principles ACT’s way. Does it have an alternative plan or will it just kick the can down the road?
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August 20, 2024 8:52am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Perhaps someone needs to take a remit to the next National Party conference suggesting that the principles of the National Party be confirmed. Because there seems to have been a bit of divergence between Chris Luxon and Sid Holland.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:22am
  - RoboRob
    
    Saw Luxon on TV one this morning. Weak as piss. Totally afraid to take any confrontational view point.
    
    a) Act bad for not going to ‘pretend’ Maori Kings talkfest.
    
    b) National party member in trouble for posting that Maori are the cause for their own problems.
    
    Why would Act go to the talk fest. Seymour would just be yelled at and insulted. The media would play attack shots for the next few days. Nothing would be gained. Seymour was right to stay away and do something productive. If only Luxon had decided to do the same. There is no such thing as a Maori King, the treaty explicitly rules this out, yet for decades politicians go and bow to him.
    
    Oh and Maori (tribes) would do a lot better if they focused on improving the welfare of their members rather then protesting and grandstanding. Ngai Tahu does heaps for their members and spends less time moaning. All are better off for it.
    
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    August 20, 2024 9:42am
    - Damocles11
      
      It was a disgrace. Luxon and all his Ministers traipsing to Turangawaewae to bow at the feet of a ‘King’ who is really the Chief of Waikato Iwi. And as the bloke celebrates his ‘koroneihana’ every year, the precedent has been set: every year they’ll have to troop to see the ‘King’ and get lambasted by the likes of the surly glowering Tuku Morgan. Luxon is like a subjugated Chief who has been defeated in war and now must pledge fealty to his overlord.
      
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      August 20, 2024 10:23am
      - OlderChas
        
        The Maori ‘royalty’ was not treated with today’s disdain and contempt while the late Queen (known everywhere as “The Lady – because she was one) was the titular leader. And very, very little was seen or head from Tukuroirangi Morgan because she did not allow him or his ilk the publicity taken by them today because of weak leadership and I suspect brainpower of the “king”
        
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        August 20, 2024 1:47pm
      - Damocles11
        
        A very interesting ‘conversation’ amongst Maori in the below X (Twitter) link –
        
        https://x.com/AuntyHeihei/status/1825621624873431423
        
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        August 20, 2024 4:52pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      You may recall, John Key stated while he was PM that the National Party no longer conform to, or uphold the founding principles of the original National Party. They are effectively, New National.
      
      5 2
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      August 20, 2024 10:59am
- Benedict Yu
  
  National will only change if there is a public outcry. Or if the polls show ACT rising at the expense of National.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:30am
  - Damocles11
    
    It interests me that as we approach Seymours bill we see Luxons popularity rising and ACT stagnating on 7% in the Maiki Sherman poll. I guess I’m just a cynic when it comes to polls.
    
    9 1
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    August 20, 2024 9:37am
    - Ghost
      
      Act have problems, they’ve been going down in all the polls. Last night’s was the first poll they have stayed steady.
      
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      August 20, 2024 9:46am
    - RoboRob
      
      Preferred prime minister is a stupid poll. The sitting PM is almost always the most preferred and unpopular candidates always rise in the poll once they become PM. Aunty helen was in the low single digits before becomming PM.
      
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      August 20, 2024 10:44am
    - Paulus
      
      Whose Poll ? – ah well that explains it as Maiki is of course a rabid left wing Maori.
      
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      August 20, 2024 11:20am
- Damocles11
  
  We’re in a hostage situation unfortunately. Maori history was extremely violent prior to European arrival here: once they got muskets it got much worse. The violent culture shows up in the warlike posturing of armed warriors, and the eye-rolling, tongue poking displays occurring everywhere from Marae to Parliament. The violent culture shows up in the prison population stats and in the infant killing stats. The Left are feeding division, hate, and anger by portraying the (primarily) law-abiding, hard working ‘Pakeha’ population as ghastly oppressive ‘colonists’ who are treading decent Maori folk underfoot with ‘systemic racism’ and ‘white supremacy’.
  Woke corporate New Zealand – embodied by the woke corporate Key and Luxon – is terrified of a violent Maori backlash against policies that halt the increasing division & flow of power and money to certain Maori elites. They can only envisage capitulation and appeasement. Their overriding impulse is to let the takeover continue until it is too late to do anything about it. They figure the pie is big enough for both Maori elites & corporate elites to share it, and to hell with the plebs. At this critical juncture we are still being sold down the river. New Zealand as a functioning democracy with equal rights for all irrespective of their DNA: this is being destroyed. Of course the Left are eagerly pursuing this outcome, but we are being betrayed on the Right; the resistance is too weak, too meek, and often non existent.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:35am
  - kowtow
    
    Even the onmipresent , school , media etc presented poi dancing has a very violent history and dark purpose.
    
    I’ve seen a Maori folkloreist proudly declare it was an exercise to strengthen women’s wrists ………
    
    …..all the better to despatch captives with …….
    
    ……and one can only presume prior to tucker time .
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:05am
  - Yabster
    
    Great post- correction though there is no real Right in NZ- Key and now Luxon are “centralists” -sitting on the fence gate and waiting to see which way the electorate blows the gate.. smart politics but doesn’t do much for the country.
    Even ACT are fairly mild and at 7% aren’t getting that much traction. How long before a further Right (not “far” as the dickhead media and socialists like to say) is started.
    
    Policies like scrap the Waitangi Tribunal, target funding on need not race, parents rewarded for taking personal responsibility in themselves and their kids, get race out of Local Government- ie scrap Maori wards (and for that matter Maori seats- as they are redundant- Maori are over represented in Parliament).
    Review the whole of the Public service especially the Min of Ed- and see if they add value -otherwise disestablish the ministry.
    Consistency in sentencing- Judges shld get less discretion and they should be reviewed by and independent body.
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:21am
    - Taieri
      
      especially the Min of Ed- and see if they add value -otherwise disestablish the ministry.
      ———-
      
      And if you disestablish the Ministry of Education, what then?
      Who will administer a very extensive state educational system? The extent of the state schools’ property alone is of gigantic size. But, more important, who will set and control educational standards for the pupils? Who will establish and enforce standards for the teachers? There’s no modern country without a governmental oversight of education, not a single one. Even private schools require governmental supervision.
      The challenge for the current Minister is not to disestablish anything there, but to make it work as it should, to cease nonsensical experiments and to make managers and staff accountable.
      
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      August 20, 2024 1:51pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    “They figure the pie is big enough for both Maori elites & corporate elites to share it, and to hell with the plebs. ”
    
    A tragically accurate assessment of contemporary NZ.
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:58am
  - Paulus
    
    Maori keep on winning the Battles, and will almost certainly win the War, with Luxon.
    
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    August 20, 2024 11:21am
    - septic skeptic
      
      At the last election I thought this next government was a last chance for the foreseeable future. I had hoped for a two party coalition with a strong ACT. It’s pretty clear the fundamental change in direction on TOW is not going to happen. My guess is that we will see a continued exodus of capable young people. Maybe at some point in the future the increasing Asian minority might stage a coup and demand a way out of the apartheid we are rushing towards.
      
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      August 20, 2024 12:24pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Maybe at some point in the future the increasing Asian minority might stage a coup and demand a way out of the apartheid we are rushing towards.
        
        If not an outward coup… they will (and are increasingly ) take control of the reins of the elites’ businesses and Government Departments and perhaps our political parties.
        
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        August 20, 2024 1:01pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Those pushing for heritage based control of NZ know that New Zealanders are by and large a pushover. They’ve discovered they can get away with this giant con job quite easily.
      
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      August 20, 2024 8:24pm
  - Drone
    
    Damocles, if we accept your hypothesis that the “Left are eagerly pursuing this outcome”, what do you think they are hoping to get out of the eventual conclusion. I note that many of the senior(ish) Labour pollies leave the country soon after leaving office rather than await the end.
    
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    August 20, 2024 12:57pm
- RoboRob
  
  I heard someone (maybe Luxon) claim that National doesn’t support Act redefining the treaty principles.
  
  I would love someone to tell me what the principles, as defined in the treaty, actually are. Act wants these formally defined, doesn’t seem that onerous to me.
  
  Perhaps National and NZF should stop doing the oppositions work for them by opposing the bill and twisting the facts in the media.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:36am
  - imalwaysright
    
    RR,
    Winston was interviewed on the Platform this morning.
    He said that he isn’t supporting Seymours bill to define the principles because there aren’t any principles.
    Its a good interview, before it I was disappointed with NZF regards this matter, but after listening to Winston it is clear that he detests the Treaty and its gravy train as much as does Seymour.
    Now we need Luxon to tell us his reasoning.
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:26am
    - Damocles11
      
      Winston can say there are no principles, but there are demonstrably codified principles incorporated in legislation, so that is a very stupid thing that he has he said.
      
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      August 20, 2024 12:31pm
      - Colville
        
        That is more about Winston not giving ACT any oxygen. Just another example of Winston being a total POS.
        
        4 0
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        August 20, 2024 1:10pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        “but there are demonstrably codified principles incorporated in legislation,”
        
        What are they?
        
        2 0
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        August 20, 2024 1:45pm
      - Taieri
        
        A man without principles saying that something does not contain any principles…how apt!
        
        3 0
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        August 20, 2024 1:53pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “What are they?”
        
        The principles are the three Ps – partnership, participation and protection. You need to be able to explain these in detail to get any job or contract with the government.
        
        If Winston thinks there are no principles, why on earth does every government job interview require candidates to know the principles? ☹️☹️☹️😡
        
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        August 20, 2024 3:26pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Addendum. Just to avoid any confusion re my last comment, ACT does not wish to codify the existing “three Ps” – partnership, participation and protection, which are strictly rote learned by public servants. It wants to do the exact opposite. ACT wants to kill them stone dead. Chris Luxon wants to maintain them. There is the problem in a nutshell.
        
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        August 20, 2024 3:37pm
      - Damocles11
        
        The ‘principles’ are everywhere, Winston is pretending they aren’t and don’t exist.
        
        https://www.doc.govt.nz/get-involved/apply-for-permits/iwi-consultation/principles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi-and-doc/
        
        https://www.mbie.govt.nz/business-and-employment/employment-and-skills/employment-strategy/maori-employment-action-plan/te-tiriti-principles
        
        https://nursingcouncil.org.nz/Public/NCNZ/About-section/Te_Tiriti_o_Waitangi.aspx
        
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        August 20, 2024 3:47pm
      - Ghost
        
        Actually what Winston is saying that instead of holding a referendum they will get on with removing all mention of the principles from legislation because they do not exist, should not be in law
        
        1 1
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        August 20, 2024 6:34pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        I think you mean principles decided/codified by judiciary, not incorporated in legislation.
        
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        August 20, 2024 8:51pm
    - rouppe
      
      So NZF won’t support it because “there are no principles”, and National won’t support it because “its divisive”.
      
      End result, nothing changes in the ToW area, and we get more of the same: creeping Maori National Socialism.
      
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      August 20, 2024 1:07pm
    - RoboRob
      
      If that is his disagreement with the bill he should be pushing for it and amending it to remove the principals (if indeed there are any in the bill).
      
      Instead his hench man Jones is sucking up to Maori and claiming no support for the bill past first reading.
      
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      August 20, 2024 1:15pm
- Burtland
  
  Seems some usurper king has been allowed to overrule the one king and the voters.
  
  How many kings do we have here? Surely this is in breach of the ToW
  
  NZ is a parody of the Life of Brian
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:48am
- Paulus
  
  If National do nothing in this regard they will find at the next election that the result is not what they expect.
  
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  August 20, 2024 11:18am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    They deserve to be booted but if the large percentage of the population with their heads in the sand vote labour again, it’s game over for NZ.
    
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    August 20, 2024 8:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The Democrats don’t care about Harris, they just want to win.
They will boost her as first black woman President, but a puppet, an empty shell.
If she should win, Obama gets his fourth term.

https://feedsnorth.com/will-president-harris-be-installed-under-the-25th-heres-why-i-think-so/
12 8
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August 20, 2024 8:52am
- Burtland
  
  will the USA catch Jacindamania ?
  – a failed economy will be the only cure
  
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  August 20, 2024 10:07am
NothingLeft

UK plans to release criminals from prison to make space for those critical of their immigration policies. Operation Early Dawn involves the release of prisoners in anticipation of violent protests by “far-right” rioters, aiming to prevent overcrowding in prisons and manage potential unrest. The operation has drawn significant attention due to its implications for public safety and the handling of extremist violence.
https://youtu.be/99RNHWcy_5I

“A communist system can be recognized by the fact that it spares the criminals and criminalizes the political opponent.” – Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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August 20, 2024 8:55am
- NothingLeft
  
  And UK LAbour govt also has an effort underway to create a new class of ‘misogyny terrorist’ (men who hold unacceptable views of women). Thought policing intensifying. Sargon of Akkad discussion:
  https://youtu.be/XOB088DAIww
  
  Democracy in UK has died.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:28am
  - rouppe
    
    With no complementary misandry legislation…
    
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    August 20, 2024 1:09pm
Nukuleka

My sister was referred to the then (I think it was at that time) Canterbury District Health Board) for a hip replacement over 2 years ago. Naturally, her pain, discomfort and immobility have increased exponentially since then. When she queried her GP yesterday about the chances of an operation she was told that on average a person would be on the waiting list for 5 years before there would be any chance of the hip replacement. Could anyone with inside knowledge of the public health system confirm whether this is accurate? 5 years the average wait time before getting a hip replacement in a public hospital?
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August 20, 2024 8:58am
- All_on_Red
  
  I am incredulous at having to wait 5 years. I had my second hip replaced last August. I waited 18 months but that was due to the (unnecessary) surgical shutdown during Covid. Fortunately the Hospital had hired a new Surgeon who just returned to NZ so they had extra resource.
  My first Hip was done in 3 months, but that was under National.
  5 years doesn’t sound right.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:25am
  - G152
    
    Two years for me.
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:45am
- Ghost
  
  One surgeon we know was going to quit if labour won the election, he said labour increased the points to where people would die waiting for their hip and knee replacements.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:34am
  - MCōs
    
    There’s clearly a shortage of medical staff associated with performing orthopedic operations
    I’ve had two experiences. First time I needed a hip replacement about 23yrs while I was working in Bangkok, paid myself and picked the date.
    The second time was a year ago when I broke the same femur and had to wait in agony for three days before they got to me. I heard the surgeon say We’ll do him now, he’s making so much noise
    I don’t know & didn’t ask, but maybe because I was foolish enough to fall over some poor bastard who’d been waiting years for a hip replacement was bumped.
    I was in a ward for four weeks and was told more than once just how short staffed they were and how much they appreciated family who came in all day to help out.
    
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    August 20, 2024 11:06am
- Paulus
  
  Cost my us/wife a bomb – first Hip accident bad fall – new Hip immediately,- three years later bad in other Hip, so serious deterioration which totally excruciatingly painful so called on $29,000 medical insurance, for 50 year premiums later, we have no pain.
  Premiums worth it.
  
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  August 20, 2024 11:28am
  - Taieri
    
    How much have you paid in premiums over 50 years?
    May be it makes more sense to save this money for the day, if it ever comes?
    
    My last permanent employer was paying me just over 3K per year in lieu of a medical insurance. I saved this money and still have most of it, despite paying for hernia operation and extensive dental works.
    
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    August 20, 2024 1:58pm
- Drone
  
  Five years and still waitng.
  
  3 0
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  August 20, 2024 12:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Americans are buying more guns. The Police can’t/won’t cordon the criminals.
It’s a matter of protection to stay alive.

https://www.prageru.com/video/why-americans-are-buying-guns?
9 6
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August 20, 2024 8:58am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Women right to own a gun.

https://www.prageru.com/video/gun-rights-are-womens-rights
8 6
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August 20, 2024 9:05am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Union top brass laying out the red carpet for Kamala, but the Union Members are leaning toward Trump.

https://patriotpowerednetwork.com/uaw-pushes-harris-but-rank-and-file-workers-secretly-lean-trump-in-2024-battle/?

Not Govt Unions, not Teachers Unions, but Trade Unions:

https://x.com/DMichaelTripi/status/1823703852790767635
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August 20, 2024 9:14am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Our friend has 6 sock puppet accounts on here now?
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:42pm
Grunter

“A tariff is a tax on a foreign country, that’s the way it is, whether you like it or not. A lot of people like to say, ‘Oh, it’s a tax on us.’ No, no, no…It’s a tax on a country that’s ripping us off and stealing our jobs. And it’s a tax that doesn’t affect our country.”
– Donald Trump

What nonsense! Trump’s tariff plans will create huge global trade problem, and NZ will most likely get hit with that. More inflation. Trade wars.

Trump has zero economic brains. Yes, he has talents at wheeling & dealing property. But that’s it.

PS: And no, that does not make me a “Kamala Fan-Boy” 🙄
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August 20, 2024 9:20am
- Libertarians are right
  
  I’m not sure American voters actually care how their policies affect NZ.
  
  9 1
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  August 20, 2024 9:44am
- Benedict Yu
  
  He clearly did not study high school economics.
  
  https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/trump-tariffs-biden-tariffs/
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:50am
  - Jake Dee
    
    He has a degree in economics from the University of Pennsylvania (1968).
    I’m not saying that his current policies are correct, but it is interesting to note how few know that.
    This is what I consider the most fascinating thing about Donald Trump, the perception distortion field that seems to follow him around.
    Here we have an Ivy League economics graduate who ran a multi-million-dollar real estate business for years and was an international icon of American capitalism and yet people can still seriously say that he doesn’t even have a high school understanding of economics.
    Amazing.
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:11pm
- RoboRob
  
  Agree. Trumps description of tarrifs is totally wrong. I am not sure if he doesn’t understand the concept or chooses to sell them that way as most Americans dont understand either.
  
  However I will say that both Trump and Biden (or his minders) are big on Tarrifs. Biden has added many more and increased many during his term. He was promising more tarrifs if reelected.
  
  I am opposed to tarrifs in principal BUT in cases of dumping (i.e. Canadian pork to NZ at one stage) or economic sabotage (Chinese massively subsidising their industries to steal market and destroy competitors) I think they are warrented.
  
  So I support the concept of US tarrifs on China but not Trumps blanket tarrifs on all goods.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:52am
- All_on_Red
  
  Whats your solution to China engaging in product dumping?
  They have kept their production going to try to sustain their economy but spending in China has stopped.
  Given local consumption has stopped the goods have to go somewhere.
  
  ‘U.S. Treasury officials have threatened to take action if China floods world markets with lower-cost goods in an effort to shore up its stagnating industrial sector.
  “The rest of the world is going to respond, and they’re not doing it in a new anti-China way, they’re responding to Chinese policy,” Jay Shambaugh, the department’s under secretary for international affairs, told the Financial Times in an interview.
  “We are worried that Chinese industrial support policies and macro policies that are more focused on supply rather than thinking about where the demand will come from are both careening towards a situation where overcapacity in China… is going to wind up hitting world markets,” Shambaugh said.’
  https://www.newsweek.com/us-warns-china-predatory-dumping-economy-1871512
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:52am
  - Burtland
    
    the BRIC block will welcome them – Russia has apparently been flooded with Chinese goods
    
    4 2
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    August 20, 2024 10:38am
    - Taieri
      
      Russia has apparently been flooded with Chinese goods
      ————
      
      Just like New Zealand. And very likely every other country.
      
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      August 20, 2024 1:59pm
- Damocles11
  
  Trump has floated the idea of abolishing income tax and replacing the lost revenue with import tariffs. I won’t express an opinion on that for fear of incurring TDS (Trump Defenders Syndrome).
  
  7 2
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  August 20, 2024 10:04am
- Mod88
  
  Trump’s 1st priority is to the United States not “Global” Trade.
  
  10 2
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  August 20, 2024 10:10am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “America First” he says quite often. That is the way it should be, look after number one.
    
    4 4
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    August 20, 2024 11:48am
- newview
  
  Absolutely correct Grunter. Trade Tariffs are a brainless short term solution to a country’s inability to be competitive. It might help win an election but the US can’t trade with itself and grow economically. They will put a Tariff on NZ beef because they can’t produce it competitively themselves.
  
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  August 20, 2024 12:01pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Harris still dodging the media.
Even CNN is raising eyebrows.

https://politicalactionalerts.com/kamala-harris-dodges-media-as-democratic-frontrunner-gop-puzzled/?
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August 20, 2024 9:41am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

NYC spends $5B on migrants while locals suffer.
The American Dream is now a cruel joke. If socialism takes over, Americans have nowhere to run to.

https://patriotpowerednetwork.com/nyc-spends-5-billion-on-migrants-under-biden-harris-locals-struggle-to-afford-rent/?
8 6
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August 20, 2024 9:47am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Some of them can come here!
  Oh, hang on, they’d be try to _leave_ socialism.
  
  5 1
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  August 20, 2024 10:59am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump calls google crooked election interference machine.
“Totally illegal, they will pay a big price for what they are doing”
Google said the edited ads do not violate their rules. Get that? “Their rules.”

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/trump-calls-google-crooked-election-interference-machine-in-rant/ss-AA1p3ZCe#image=2
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August 20, 2024 9:52am
Damocles11

The leftist separatist race-baiting NZ Herald have run a story by a part-Maori person with the headline ‘Maori have a completely different view of family from non-Maori’.
This is deeply racist. This is deeply divisive.
All cultures and societies prize familial links between immediate family, and wider extended family. This is something all humanity has in common; family and the sense of family bonds is one of the most precious aspects of being a human being. How on earth can part-Maori have a ‘completely different’ view of family from ‘non Maori’?
Proudly publishing this intentionally racist and divisive article, the Herald then gaslights everybody on Facebook with the following:

————
Kia ora,

We have disabled the post due to racist comments.
We appreciate the high level of interest in this story but cannot safely moderate it at this time.

Ngā mihi,
Herald Social
————
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August 20, 2024 10:02am
- Inandout
  
  Dam, your instructions are laid out here.
  https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/on-campus/life-on-campus/maori-life-on-campus/revitalising-te-reo-maori/kuputaka/greetings-and-sign-offs.html
  
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  August 20, 2024 10:21am
- cmm
  
  “Maori have a completely different view of family from non-Maori”
  Yup, like:
  * twice the abortion rate.
  * x times the rate of running baby factories for the welfare benefits.
  * y times the bash.
  
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  August 20, 2024 11:42am
  - surfing
    
    Absent fathers too. Lazy maori men running around the motu impregnating maori females and taking no responsibility for unborn children who face a life of being fatherless, unloved, and abused. No wonder they turn to gangs.
    
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    August 20, 2024 11:59am
    - Taieri
      
      At the same time there are plenty of hardworking Maori fathers looking after their families and striving to live a good and successful life. Let’s not exaggerate, laziness and irresponsibility are not exclusive to the Maoris, they are found among all ethnicities.
      
      10 1
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      August 20, 2024 2:03pm
      - surfing
        
        Absent fathers are a recipe for family disaster regardless of race. So why are maori fathers far less likely to stick around…
        
        ““Maori children are the most likely to experience father absence. The proportion of Maori babies born to married parents has fallen from a relatively high level of 72% in 1968 to just 20% in the June 2022 quarter. Maori children are the most likely to experience living with a sole parent.””
        
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        August 20, 2024 2:34pm
      - artemisia
        
        Yes there are plenty, but there are also the stats.
        
        2 0
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        August 20, 2024 3:52pm
    - Ghost
      
      Plenty of white absent fathers as well. This childish bashing of Māori is getting boring. But I guess the poor excuse of fathers of other ethnic groups have your blessing
      
      8 3
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      August 20, 2024 2:11pm
      - cmm
        
        The “but whites do it too” argument is rather boring.
        
        Yes, there are arsehole whites who are bad parents, bad fathers, get abortions, put in the bash etc.
        
        But the Maori stats are far worse.
        If Maori rates were “only” as bad as white rates that would be a huge win.
        
        Of course what would be better would be if it all went to zero, but that’s not going to happen.
        
        What is absurd though is the claim that Maori have some special magic sauce when it comes to parenting and families and it is colonialism that broke this. Nonsense. If Maori conducted family relationships more like whites there would be far less problems.
        
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        August 20, 2024 2:40pm
      - surfing
        
        Maori have far higher rates of absent fathers than other races, which is a prime predictor for failure in life.
        
        If you want to put your head in the sand, nothing will ever be solved.
        
        Labour / greens / socialists hate the family unit, and have done their best to erode the family unit as being the best environment in which to raise children. Their anti-family policies have harmed maori to no end.
        
        Encouraging the family unit will help Maori more than any other race, and I am very much supportive of that.
        
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        August 20, 2024 2:42pm
      - Ghost
        
        There are plenty of absent fathers in this country, putting the head in the sand is your constant singling out an attacking Maori.
        
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        August 20, 2024 2:52pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    It’s funny how part-Maori living the modern life like everyone else are treated as a sacred species by the loony left.
    
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    August 20, 2024 8:46pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Specifically talking about the activists here but it seems like their view on family is “my non-Maori heritage is non-existent”.
  
  The rest of us acknowledge everywhere we come from.
  
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  August 20, 2024 11:46am
- surfing
  
  I’ve noticed that the NZ Herald has taken a distinct racist tone of late.
  
  It’s almost like they’ve hired some new editors intent on pushing the maori are better than everyone else line.
  
  Maybe Herald picked some new staff from Stuff?
  
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  August 20, 2024 12:02pm
  - kowtow
    
    Yes their editorial stance is distinctly unhinged.
    
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    August 20, 2024 1:43pm
Gravelroad

Random question (for the health policy dudes in particular):
Re breast cancer screening: inmate here is now over 70. Apparently the free screening does not apply once this age is reached.
She has been advised that she can still go for a breast cancer screen but it will cost $250.
Seem to recall that there was some suggestion at election time that this age limit could be increased.
Is that still on the cards for the National led government?
Plenty of women over 70 and on fixed incomes these days.
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August 20, 2024 11:01am
- cmm
  
  As age goes up, the desire to perform surgery etc goes down because the QALY expectation goes down.
  
  If you aren’t going to do the operations, then what’s the point in doing the tests?
  
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  August 20, 2024 11:45am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Not all cases of breast cancer require surgery.
    Many are treated with radiation and chemotherapy -especially if caught early via mammograms
    
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    August 20, 2024 12:25pm
- Inandout
  
  Grav, when I was in the life insurance industry the risky ages were 55 to 65, especially for those who didn’t take care of their health. Maybe things have changed since the plague, I don’t know.
  
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  August 20, 2024 12:21pm
surfing

I see McDonalds in Mt Roskill has been given a makeover by teen crims.

You have to laugh though…

“Detective Senior Sergeant Martin Friend, … said the group … gained entry to the restaurant by smashing the store’s windows….
”This type of behaviour is unacceptable and will not be tolerated,” Friend said.

The reverse applies, this behaviour IS tolerated, and even encouraged by our social welfare & justice systems. None of these crims will receive any consequences that would come even close to repaying the damage they have done.

Soft on crime National.
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August 20, 2024 11:56am
- Damocles11
  
  Mark Mitchell is a deer in the headlights, unfortunately.
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:21pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Public flogging for minors convicted of committing these types of crimes?
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:49pm
AitchW

I read this morning that Tiwai Point has agreed to shed 20Mw of power over the next few weeks in addition to the 185Mw they’ve already shed.
This in NOT a cost saving exercise by the smelter, rather it’s to reduce power load so that the rest of the country can keep the lights on.
First Methanex, now this.
I think it’s time to invite Jacinda back to explain to us exactly what contingency plans she had in place to prevent the lights going out after she banned fossil fuel prospecting.
We have 2 major exporters reducing output to save power this winter. What reliable new generation will be available next winter?
Wouldn’t it be fun if someone were to ask her these questions while she was on stage basking in the adoration of the DNC!
16 2
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August 20, 2024 12:25pm
- Ghost
  
  I wonder how Fonterra, the glenbrook steel and the hospitals who were made to remove their coal burners feel
  
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  August 20, 2024 1:02pm
  - cmm
    
    I think most of the larger Fonterra sites still use coal:
    https://view.publitas.com/fonterra-comms/fonterra_decarbonising-map_2023_final/page/1
    
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    August 20, 2024 2:32pm
    - peterwn
      
      In the South Island, Fonterra’s only choice is to decommission coal fired boilers and install electrode boilers. The network connection for an electrode boiler probably costs more than the cost of the boiler itself. So what this has effectively done is to transfer their coal use from the South Island to Huntly and never mind that more Huntly coal would be required for Fonterra’s process heat and steam than SI coal fed straight into a Fonterra boiler because Huntly’s waste heat would end up in the Waikato River (this is why Huntly and the former Meremere power stations have no cooling towers which the typical Rankine cycle power station generally has).
      
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      August 20, 2024 5:13pm
- Burtland
  
  Comtricity and Raw Energy had stopped trading.
  Octopus, Nova, Electric Kiwi and Flick Electric not taking new customers
  
  … another Megan Woods clusterfxxk
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/525604/power-companies-withdraw-deals-due-to-price-squeeze
  
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  August 20, 2024 2:19pm
  - peterwn
    
    Nothing to do with Megan. Their operating model was to buy spot price power to on-sell to customers. They do not want to invest directly or indirectly in generation and hence try and persuade the Government to force the gentailers to underwrite their operation. The spot price is quite low most of the time but rises when supply is tight requiring the running up of ‘low merit’ generation such as the Huntly Rankine machines. It is like the old fashioned rack found in medieval torture chambers. The only Plan ‘B’ they have is to stop accepting new customers and Plan ‘C’ is to go bust.
    
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    August 20, 2024 5:21pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Declaring a “climate emergency” was the get out jail free stunt. Just following “the science” and all that.
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:51pm
Ghost

Whoops, this sounds so unlabour

Labour leader Chris Hipkins is distancing himself from his MP’s position that benefit sanctions are a “good idea” for those under the age of 20.

Labour has been vocal about the ramping up of the use of sanctions by the Government, calling it “callous”, that the government was “picking on” beneficiaries, and had a “willingness to kick people while they were down”.

But Greg O’Connor, Labour’s Ōhāriu MP, has said twice over the past week that he thinks applying sanctions to young jobseekers is warranted.

Article
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August 20, 2024 1:00pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  applying sanctions to young jobseekers is warranted.
  
  A better idea would be to bring back youth wages…and let these youngsters get a chance at employment.
  
  What business owner wants to risk an adult wage on an inexperienced youngster in their first few weeks of employment?
  
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  August 20, 2024 1:07pm
  - Swifty
    
    Labour MPs would instantly reverse any changes National made in this area.
    
    Labour would rather these young people are sitting at home on the dole than out earning a bit less than adults but picking up valuable skills and behaviours.
    
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    August 20, 2024 2:08pm
    - cmm
      
      “Labour MPs would instantly reverse any changes National made in this area”
      
      Possibly, but:
      * At least that would be 2 years of youth getting the advantage of some experience.
      * If the dopey little scrotes vote wisely they will realise that voting for Labour would be voting themselves back into the dole queue.
      
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      August 20, 2024 2:27pm
      - Swifty
        
        Badly worded on my part – I wasn’t suggesting National shouldn’t act on this.
        
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        August 20, 2024 3:30pm
      - Hugh Jarse
        
        These kids will be grandparents by the time labour get in again.
        
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        August 20, 2024 7:43pm
- peterwn
  
  Greg has always been an ‘outlier’ in the Labour Party. He has been able to win Ohariu by picking off the centre votes, he successfully snatched those votes off Peter Dunne. He does not stand on the list as his ranking would be hopelessly low.
  
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  August 20, 2024 5:41pm
Bridgenag

Merck MMR case ruling: “You can defraud the American people when government agencies go along with it”
An Appeals Court has ruled that it is OK for drug companies to make false claims as long as the regulators don’t object. This has huge negative implications for whistleblowers going forward.

https://open.substack.com/pub/stevekirsch/p/merck-mmr-case-ruling-you-can-defraud?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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August 20, 2024 1:04pm
Ghost

Paddy Gower Has joined stuff. Well he says partnered with stuff. Poor paddy, can’t find anyone else to hire him.
10 1
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August 20, 2024 1:34pm
- Yabster
  
  him and Stuffed are good match – best ignored and def not looked at…
  
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  August 20, 2024 2:10pm
- mandk
  
  He could have started a dog shit picking up business with Sharon Murdoch.
  
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  August 20, 2024 2:56pm
kowtow

I see a disturbing case of a gang of young men sexually attacking girls at beaches in the UK .

One man arrested was given bail.

And here was me thinking the new Labour regime was cracking down on “extreme misogyny” .

Sounds like business as usual. Depending .
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August 20, 2024 1:46pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  I’m guessing the molesters weren’t “the far right”?
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:52pm
imalwaysright

The Federales seem engrossed in this investigation, yet, when it comes to the murders of little brown kids, they seem to have a lot less interest.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/philip-polkinghorne-murder-trial-live-updates-testimony-resumes-after-jurors-given-day-off/DJRZOM7R6JCRJJ5KBZBREV2RZA/
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August 20, 2024 2:01pm
- Ghost
  
  Really? Have you never noticed the huge amount of coverage the media do give to Māori children that are killed?
  
  Hers all the herald articles on baby ruthless
  
  https://www.google.com/search?as_q=Baby+ruthless&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=Nzherald.co.nz&as_occt=any&as_filetype=&tbs=#ip=1
  
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  August 20, 2024 2:33pm
- surfing
  
  imalwaysright, not this time.
  
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  August 20, 2024 2:45pm
- MCōs
  
  It’s the trial that’s getting the publicity rather than the investigation in the case of Polkinghorne because of the lurid details
  
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  August 20, 2024 7:57pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    He’s fair game because he has Untermensch ancestry.
    
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    August 20, 2024 8:56pm
Swifty

Meanwhile, in Manurewa:

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/iCzCtXdtgtfFdtK3/?mibextid=UalRPS

[Mod – just post without that, it’s not needed]
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August 20, 2024 2:05pm
- Swifty
  
  Cool.
  
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  August 20, 2024 3:28pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  I don’t do facebook because it’s a platform for suckers to be exploited on. What’s the story?
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:57pm
mandk

Chris Hipkins evidently thinks it is ok for young people to be on the dole and make no effort to seek work:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350384575/chris-hipkins-distances-himself-labour-mps-endorsement-benefit-sanctions

The man is about as useful as Darlene Tana.
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August 20, 2024 2:52pm
- peterwn
  
  But he cannot upset a key part of his constituency.
  
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  August 20, 2024 5:44pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  The more I hear of his pronouncements of late, the more I think he seems to be no better than a hysterical 1st year uni student with blue/pink/green hair and a head full of infantile woke rubbish.
  
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  August 20, 2024 9:00pm
Gravelroad

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350384766/darleen-tana-writes-green-members-arguing-keep-their-seat
I know this is not new, and I will admit that I may be a bit slow on the uptake, but can someone please explain why Darlene Tana is referred to as “them and they” in this report above.
I know it is her choice, but why?
Was she a man before who has now transitioned to be a woman?
If not, why would she be identified as “they”?
Is it just to be fashionable, or what?
Split personality?
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August 20, 2024 2:55pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  Yes I just saw a similar story on this in the NZ Herald. Looks like she is going to put up a fight.
  Your move Chloe!
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/mp-darleen-tana-vows-to-fight-green-partys-possible-use-of-waka-jumping-law/B6JC3BP6JZCJBHCPPKMYKRO7GE/
  
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  August 20, 2024 2:59pm
  - peterwn
    
    It is a Party general meeting that will decide whether to give her the push and I bet that they will not. In 2017 James Shaw was too scared stiff of the general party membership to even have a chat with Bill English. Winston Peters recognised this and refused to meet the Greens, leaving Jacinda to bring the Greens on board with the few crumbs that Winston would allow her to give.
    
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    August 20, 2024 6:28pm
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  I may just be incredibly cynical, but I think that Tana may simply be adding another marginalised group to her identity so as to muddy the optics of any organisation trying to remove her. Trying to rally the rainbow as a flag of convenience perhaps?
  
  Now she can moan that the Greens are trying to remove not just a Maori, but also an intersex person.
  
  But hey, at least they’re not trying to remove a woman now, are they!
  
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  August 20, 2024 3:07pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You can’t just decide to “be intersex”. It is a rare congenital condition.
    
    5 2
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    August 20, 2024 3:59pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      But I IDENTIFY as intersex! How dare you!
      
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      August 20, 2024 9:01pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  “They” are an attention seeker who is using using their pronouns to claim some sort of victimhood (Green MP remember).
  “Their” reason for using “They/Them”, and I kid you not, is because they “never walk alone”. I assume they’re saying “if you f with me you f with everyone” kind of thing – it’s not what pronouns are generally for but you’re not allowed to judge any more.
  
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  August 20, 2024 3:16pm
- peterwn
  
  There are four types of ‘genders’ in the English language (French has two only). They are male, female, common and neuter. Neuter is used for inanimate objects and occasionally for little animals (eg ‘it’). Common embraces male and female but generally covers plural words eg ‘we’, ‘they’ or ‘I’. There is no third person singular common pronoun to embrace ‘he’ or ‘she’, so the pronoun ‘they’ has been pressed into service for this. ‘It’ would have been a better fit than ‘they’ but for some reason is considered too demeaning.
  
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  August 20, 2024 3:19pm
  - greybeard
    
    Isn’t “they” 3rd person plural ?
    Isn’t “it” 3rd person singular ?
    
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    August 20, 2024 5:09pm
    - peterwn
      
      In a strict grammatical sense – yes. But then Winston Smith thought that 2 + 2 = 4 until the Ministry of Love interrogators convinced him that 2 + 2 = 5 despite it making no mathematical sense.
      
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      August 20, 2024 6:32pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Good explanation…
    
    we do commonly use “they” as a singular pronoun when we query something about someone not easily identified ..
    
    e.g. Me: “Someone just phoned for you ”
    Hubby: “What did they want?”
    
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    August 20, 2024 6:05pm
- RoboRob
  
  She is being a ‘dick’. After getting turfed from the greens she said something I dont need support I have all the support I need in myself. She then said something like my pronouns are them / they.
  
  Stuff being the absolute lefty retards they are would never dare to not use the correct pronouns.
  
  This is just an extension of the idiocy of allowing people to force others to use their ‘desired’ pronouns. Its stupid and needs to stop.
  
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  August 20, 2024 3:23pm
  - peterwn
    
    Indeed the gay community want the use of ‘incorrect’ pronouns to be treated as a serious criminal matter.
    
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    August 20, 2024 5:02pm
    - John Loveridge
      
      Not so much the gay community as the lunatic gender-bending fringe.
      
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      August 20, 2024 6:32pm
- mandk
  
  We shouldn’t tolerate such stupidity.
  
  If the rules of grammar are ignored, written and spoken language starts to become incomprehensible.
  
  An individual is either he or she (I don’t care if someone self-identifies as a man or a woman, although I don’t see why I should be compelled to play along with their delusion).
  
  “It” applies to single animals or things.
  
  “They” is only the plural form of he, she or it. The only exception to this is when the sex of the person in question cannot be identified.
  
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  August 20, 2024 3:47pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The Oxford dictionary does not support your final paragraph.
    
    https://www.oed.com/discover/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/?tl=true#:~:text=Toward%20the%20end%20of%20the,the%20form%20in%20their%20definitions.
    
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    August 20, 2024 4:02pm
  - kowtow
    
    We should not tolerate …..
    
    Agree , it’s madness ,
    HDPA is calling her “they” , yet while reading her letter she refers to herself ( Tama) in the first person singular “I” . Surely if one’s preferred pronoun , whatever the hell that is , is “they” , then one must refer to oneself as “we” .
    
    Innit .
    
    Anyway HDPA says , ‘they’ ‘ll be on her show after 530 this evening.
    
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    August 20, 2024 4:31pm
  - AitchW
    
    MandK I’m not sure that I agree. Language evolves constantly otherwise it stagnates and dies. Look at how Maori is so jealously protected by the anointed ones that it is never allowed to change. Occasionally words are bastardised from other languages (pirihimana for police, kura for schools and my personal favourite, Hato Hone for St John) but otherwise the language appears to be frozen in 1870 or earlier.
    English changes constantly, a few years back the OED conceded that split infinitives are ok. The rules change, language changes and much as some of us hate what is being done to our beloved English we can’t stop it.
    
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    August 20, 2024 6:36pm
- kowtow
  
  How many seats do “they” have in parliament .
  
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  August 20, 2024 3:54pm
- rouppe
  
  One day she came out with “my pronouns are them/they because I never walk alone”.
  
  No, I’m not shitting you.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350351838/darleen-tana-back-vowing-stay-parliament
  
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  August 20, 2024 3:55pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  but why?
  
  I think she was trying to convey the notion that she represents more than herself….
  
  Tana, speaking to reporters after leaving the debating chamber, said they did not feel lonely as a lone independent MP.
  
  “My pronouns are they/them, I never walk alone, in fact,” Tana told reporters.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350351838/darleen-tana-back-vowing-stay-parliament
  
  However, Darleen Tana seems clueless as to the use/role of personal pronouns.
  
  She still refers to herself in the first person singular:
  
  “I was fairly elected as a List MP during the 2023 General Election. I have done nothing which would require the Speaker to expel me from the House and I have mahi to do, so I will not be resigning,” Tana wrote.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/525672/former-green-mp-darleen-tana-says-they-have-no-intention-of-resigning
  
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  August 20, 2024 4:04pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    “I never walk alone.”
    Should be “We never walk alone”.
    Two or more in her head then.
    Multi personalities living there.
    Nice.
    
    4 3
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    August 20, 2024 4:09pm
    - Jack5
      
      Darleen better not bump into these two Aussie “cops”:
      
      https://youtube.com/shorts/bXMRPVfXtFg?si=yPibsYdSVvwr5WMI
      
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      August 20, 2024 10:21pm
- John Loveridge
  
  It’s interesting to see the disastrous effect Darleen’s new pronouns are having on the writer’s already fragile grasp of grammar.
  
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  August 20, 2024 5:13pm
- Jake Dee
  
  Yes, it is just to be fashionable.
  Is anyone expecting here to come up with a well thought-out and rational explanation as to why, after spending her entire life as she/her, SHE is now a they/them?
  
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  August 20, 2024 10:18pm
Philview

What are the odds on this happening? On Saturday Stephen Chamberlain a defendant in a US fraud trial is killed after being hit by a car. On Monday his co-defendant Mike Lynch is killed after his boat sank off the coast of Sicily.
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August 20, 2024 3:18pm
- MCōs
  
  Are you promoting some sort of conspiracy?
  
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  August 20, 2024 6:44pm
I remember when

Don’t know what Joe Biden is on but we need to get as much of it as we can for our Electricity Network!
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August 20, 2024 3:46pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Haha – some of them over there will be wondering now why they got rid of Biden. He certainly is on a roll. A light has gone somewhere.
  Bring Back Biden.
  
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  August 20, 2024 4:06pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

First night of the DNC.
Well who wrote your speech AOC? You didn’t!

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/aoc-and-hillary-clinton-lead-the-new-and-old-guard-of-democratic-women-on-first-night-of-dnc-for-harris/ar-AA1p5mtH?
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August 20, 2024 4:21pm
rouppe

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/mp-darleen-tana-vows-to-fight-green-partys-possible-use-of-waka-jumping-law/B6JC3BP6JZCJBHCPPKMYKRO7GE/

Tana made a number of arguments for why their resignation did not distort the proportionality of Parliament, chiefly that Te Pāti Māori would now be casting proxy votes for Tana in alignment with how the Green Party votes, meaning the Greens will not lose out on support in the house.

Told ya. She’s going to argue that the Greens haven’t lost a vote, so proportionality remains. Quite why the Maori Party is casting that proxy vote and not her, I’m not sure. Maybe she’s not going to turn up to the House much.
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August 20, 2024 4:21pm
Steve Todd

Okay, now that we’ve got Day 1 of the Democratic National Convention out of the way, it’s time for some cold, hard, reality, from earlier in the day.

Regarding a possible ceasefire in Gaza, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said, “this is a decisive moment, probably the best, maybe the last, opportunity to get the hostages home, to get a ceasefire, and to put everyone on a better path to enduring peace and security. […].”

Ana Kasparian and Cenk Uygur on The Young Turks (at the Convention) aren’t so sure a ceasefire will happen anytime soon (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of4CgwL3ak8 [13:41]).

(At 1:45 in, Ana informs her viewers that Israel says there are 111 hostages still being held in Gaza, including 39 who are presumed to be dead.)

Good, alternative, commentary, posted in the interests of balance.
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August 20, 2024 4:28pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Still promoting the sexist pig Uygur who makes the most vile comments yet you criticise Trump whose comments pale in comparison to Uygurs.
  Care to explain your hypocrisy?
  I love how you are using your real name Steve Todd and how your support for the vile sexist pig Uygur is clearly able to be found on Google
  So much for your reputation
  LOL
  And Hamas has rejected the Hostage deal.
  Do try to keep up.
  https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2024/08/19/hamas-on-ceasefire-deal-nope-n3793352
  
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  August 20, 2024 5:02pm
- Steve Todd
  
  I should have emphasised the fact that the commentary I linked to gives an alternative view of the negotiations, and that when the MSM says Hamas rejected the ceasefire deal, that, in their view, it was really Netanyahu.
  
  See from about 12 minutes, to 13:41.
  
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  August 20, 2024 5:29pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Not true
    Netanyahu agreed
    ‘After a three-hour meeting with US Secretary of State Antony Blinken, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu puts out a statement publicly backing the latest US bridging proposal that was presented to Israel and conveyed to Hamas at the end of the summit in Doha last week.
    
    “The Prime Minister reiterated Israel’s commitment to the current American proposal on the release of our hostages, which takes into account Israel’s security needs, which he strongly insists on,” the Prime Minister’s Office says in a statement issued in Hebrew and English.’
    ‘U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Israel has accepted a bridging proposal for a cease-fire and hostage release in Gaza, and called on Hamas to do the same.
    He spoke Monday after holding a 2 1/2 hour meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.’
    https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2024/08/19/netanyahu-by-golly-i-like-the-us-plan-n3793348
    You really are as misinformed as the loathsome commentators you support
    So Steve Todd, care to explain your hypocrisy about Uygur and Trump?
    
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    August 20, 2024 5:47pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      Not a cease fire deal.
      Blinken is calling it a “bridging proposal”.
      
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      August 20, 2024 10:25pm
mandk

“Winstone Pulp proposes closing mills with loss of 230 jobs” (Business Desk)

Another thing for which we should all be thankful to Jacinda Ardern – the best PM NZ has ever had! //
8 3
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August 20, 2024 4:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Ardern really should be prosecuted for what she has done to out lovely Country – and all of the follow on affects that will continue for 2 plus decades.
  
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  August 20, 2024 6:21pm
mogg

“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.
PJ O’Rourke”
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August 20, 2024 4:39pm
Eastlander

For the enlightenment of anybody who thought that moving to Australia was the answer:

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/politics/cumberland-city-council-ploughing-ahead-with-indigenous-treaty-by-stealth-despite-widespread-opposition-to-voice/news-story/a010a08a21fc1223321d9b2f701378d5

Cumberland City Council, which covers suburbs from Lidcombe to Girraween, is pushing ahead with plans to sign a partnership agreement with three local Indigenous groups, despite residents overwhelmingly voting No at the Voice to Parliament referendum…

“It was proposed that we now go to three local land councils, Gandangara Local Aboriginal Land Council, Deerubbin Local Aboriginal Land Council, and Metropolitan Local Aboriginal Land Council. And… all the conditions being imposed were absolutely horrendous,” he said…

The draft of the partnership agreement explicitly acknowledged “Aboriginal custodianship of land and sovereignty… over land that has never been ceded” and commits the parties to seeing each other as “co-managers”…

Access to land and waters in Cumberland City Council and Aboriginal language street signage are also mentioned as possible matters for agreement.

Many of our local authorities would love to try something like this, were it to occur to their minds. They might well do so in the event that the false ‘treaty principles’ were expunged from our law by Seymour’s bill.

The fight will never be over, and you won’t be able to avoid it by skipping the country.
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August 20, 2024 5:35pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Emails from the Taxpayer’s Union today about Local Rates.
I have no links yet, sorry.
James Ross sent the email.
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August 20, 2024 6:36pm
Jack5

On TV1 tonight, in a report of a Commerce Commission urging more competition in NZ banking, it was stated that the Government fully owned Kiwibank.

Not so. The Government owns 79.3 7 per cent, with the balance spread through non-Government investment funds.
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August 20, 2024 7:12pm
- Damocles11
  
  ‘On 22 August 2022, the New Zealand Government purchased Kiwibank’s holdings company Kiwi Group Holdings for an estimated NZ$2.1 billion. As a result, the Government acquired full control of the state-owned bank from the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, ACC, and New Zealand Post.’
  
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  August 20, 2024 8:38pm
  - Jack5
    
    Today, two days short of two years after the source in the post of Damocles11:
    
    Kiwibank Ltd shareholding:
    – 79.37 per cent: Kiwibank Group capital Ltd (the Government, in the names of the Ministers of Finance and the Minister for State Owned Enterprises.)
    
    – Forsyth Barr Custodians, 8.03 per cent.
    
    -J.B. Were Nominees Ltd, 3.34 per cent.
    
    – Hobson Wealth Custodian Ltd, 2 per cent.
    
    – Custodial Services Ltd, Tauranga 1.5 per cent
    
    Etc, etc …
    
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    August 20, 2024 10:16pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350384307/council-staff-caught-breaking-sign-rules

“The council boss has warned anyone caught breaking the rules could face disciplinary action.”

What a pathetically weak response !

The appropriate statement would be: “all staff members concerned have been fired without references and will never be employed by this council in any capacity ever again”.
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August 20, 2024 8:19pm

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