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August 18, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 August 2024

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General Debate

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peterwn

A Ministry of Social Development employee asked a guy with a white stick and dark glasses to produce his driving licence for ID. The guy said he did not have a driving licence so he produced a SuperGold photo ID card. MSD guy said that he needed his drivers licence.
It must take a special sort of stupidity for an employee to behave like that. Also his training must have been abysmal. How the hell was he hired in the first place if that was his attitude.
More seriously, though the Government needs to think through this sort of thing. For example they require banks etc to see proof of someone’s address, but while someone could produce a rates bill or power bill in the past, how many people can nowadays with the stuff being sent by email. The only way of getting proof of your address (which costs $30+) seems to be to drive slightly too fast past a speed camera.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/525389/lord-have-mercy-blind-man-asked-for-driver-s-licence-for-identification
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August 18, 2024 8:08am
- artemisia
  
  Not everyone has a driver’s licence of course. Maybe staffer misheard and apparently did not see the white stick. Who knows. But why would the person and the media make a big deal of a mistake? Nothing to do with current activism around Disability changes.
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:52am
  - surfing
    
    Because it’s a big huge mistake! This is monty python level of mistake.
    
    You minimise the stupidity here.
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:04am
    - AitchW
      
      There is a number of reasons why this fellow might have been so stupid.
      He may have been blindly following rules, ie only a drivers license is acceptable ID.
      He may have been poorly trained.
      His supervision may have been inadequate.
      The ‘client’ may have been hostile, stupid or incomprehensible.
      He may have been bored, truculent, or simply not have given a hoot.
      He may have been a DEI hire and incompetent for the job.
      None of the above is acceptable and is, in my opinion, symptomatic of the current state of a disengaged, uninterested, incompetent and abysmally led public service.
      
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      August 18, 2024 10:45am
  - Ghost
    
    I’ve driven by winz and seen thr most interesting people. A person walking down the footpath from winz on crutches, get to their car, throw them in the back and walk normally to the drivers seat.
    
    My hoarder neighbour’s partner recently got shifted to supported living, there is nothing wrong with her, so I have no idea what she faked
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:25am
    - Vinicius
      
      One of my neighbours is living off the benefit. He’s in his late 20’s and is a trained welder. He seems to have convinced WINZ that he has a bad back and cannot work. He seems to move around and lift stuff just fine.
      
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      August 18, 2024 10:59am
      - Colville
        
        A certified welder could earn more working one day a week than being on a bene… so he must really love his couch time.
        
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        August 18, 2024 12:15pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        It’s a hard one. Taking a gotcha snapshot of a bad back bennie doing some brief work isn’t proof that the person can do protracted work. With a lot of injuries you can do a brief bout of work but know you would injure yourself further doing hours and hours of work not appropriate for your injury.
        
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        August 19, 2024 4:10pm
    - Conservatarian
      
      My neighbour is an older single homeowner (not sure whether she is quite NZ Super age yet) and doesn’t work as she has vision issues from a neurological or physiological event. She cannot see sufficiently to drive and, fair enough, she definitely shouldn’t be driving. I work from home 2 days per week in a home office overlooking our driveways and note that she uses taxis (the expensive badged type, not Ubers) daily, often 2 round trips per day, sometimes even 3. I would love to know who’s paying for all this.
      
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      August 18, 2024 11:36am
      - AitchW
        
        We are. But I’m happy to pay for her mobility. She didn’t choose to be impaired.
        
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        August 18, 2024 12:31pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The person with crutches is OK walking a few meters, but not so much longer distances?
      
      One thing that WILL take you out of a great deal of the workforce is an injury.
      
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      August 19, 2024 3:32pm
- rouppe
  
  how many people can nowadays with the stuff being sent by email.
  
  If you received it by email, you can produce it, surely.
  
  If one is the type to delete this things, you’re almost certainly going to find a bill from someone in your bin (deleted items folder) which in gmail at least are there for 30 days
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:54am
  - Flossie
    
    Email printouts are not acceptable – to banks anyway I do know as recent experience taught me.
    
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    August 18, 2024 11:53am
    - rouppe
      
      I’ve opened investment accounts with emailed statements in the last 6 months.
      
      What gets me with myMSD is that they are happy to communicate with you electronically, but are unable to receive information electronically.
      
      So you have to mail – as in what we did in the 19th century – documents to them, which will undoubtedly be scanned and distributed to the relevant team.
      
      It’s nuts.
      
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      August 18, 2024 12:18pm
      - Ghost
        
        Ring them up, tell them you’ve got some documents to send them, they will then activate on your mymsd a place to upload them. Just did it last week for my father
        
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        August 18, 2024 12:25pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Gives them wiggle room for excuses but none for you.
        
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        August 19, 2024 3:35pm
  - peterwn
    
    But as far as I know, you have to produce address evidence as produced on paper by the agency – a print your own version is not acceptable.
    Another daft example – a Kiwibank employee said that an item it produced and sent by snail mail is not acceptable proof of address.
    People deserve clarity on this sort of thing and not be given the run-around by taxpayer funded government agencies.
    Anyway it takes a special type of stupidity on the part of a MSD employee to fail to recognise that not everyone has a drivers licence for one reason or another. If the employee is suspicious of the client’s circumstances the employer should be trained to escalate the situation to a supervisor and supervisors directed not to belittle or rubbish employees (especially in the presence of other staff) who escalate such a situation.
    
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    August 18, 2024 12:07pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Unfortunately National have a habit of creating obnoxious messes like this. They should stop doing that if they want to remain in power.
      
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      August 19, 2024 3:37pm
- Damocles11
  
  To have ‘the government’ having oversight of all conversations between public servants and members of the public….basically we’d be in a ‘Big Brother’ scenario. It’s not realistic. Red Radio used this anecdote as a launching pad for a wide-ranging attack on the government and its delivery of services to the disabled, as we all knew they would.
  
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  August 18, 2024 10:00am
  - Handyman
    
    Quite right. If anything, it is an indictment on the education system, or the Labour government using the civil service to mop up unemployment.
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:19am
    - Conservatarian
      
      Yes, effectively paying the dole but to civil servants at $80k per year plus free air conditioning and tea / coffee.
      
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      August 18, 2024 11:38am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The only reason that particular employee is working at the MSD is because they are unemployable in the Private Sector.
  
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  August 18, 2024 10:04am
- Paulus
  
  Cost me $80 for 8 kms over 50km speed limited.
  Well done Tauranga Council.
  
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  August 18, 2024 10:08am
  - peterwn
    
    There is actually a cheaper way if you own a car or motorbike. Just hold onto the stub of your rego label. That has your address on it.
    
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    August 18, 2024 12:13pm
- Geri Sjovik
  
  My main bank requires proof of physical address.
  
  My bank statements have the option of online or paper statements.
  
  I make them send me a paper statement.
  
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  August 18, 2024 10:29am
  - OlderChas
    
    My bank has the option of posted statements. Each one will cost 50 cents! I get them emailed and print them if need be.
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:58am
    - Geri Sjovik
      
      Mine are free.
      
      Printer ink is the most expensive fluid in the world.
      
      Swap banks.
      
      In my case, any time I want to change things my bank requires proof of physical address, on paper. Cheaper, but not smarter.
      
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      August 18, 2024 11:45am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Get a printer that has ink tanks, not cartridges.
        Canon G4610 works for me. Just replaced waste ink pads and reset ink counter.
        Two spare print heads as backup.
        
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        August 18, 2024 5:18pm
  - peterwn
    
    It is not what the bank requires. It is what Government agencies require the bank to do.
    
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    August 18, 2024 12:14pm
- Taieri
  
  Why is the “proof” of an address even needed? What it is supposed to “prove”?
  
  I’ve always found it unbelievable that the biometric NZ Passport, which is quite difficult to forge, is sufficient to enter/leave this country and almost 200 other countries, but is not sufficient to establish my identity when dealing with the Little Hitlers in various government agencies, banks and such likes and I have to provide an additional form of “identification” to “prove” that I am who I am.
  
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  August 18, 2024 1:48pm
  - Conservatarian
    
    A library card requires a significant amount of proof of identity and address. Practically shouldn’t that be sufficient for most purposes?
    
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    August 18, 2024 2:19pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Compound stupidity is when an expired passport is not proof of identity. The passport may have expired, but I haven’t!
    
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    August 18, 2024 2:19pm
Yvette

Seymour’s law

David Seymour wants to define the principles by referendum. I disagree with this as an approach but he is to be applauded for forcing the issue onto the agenda, because if we are going to be governed by the Principles of the Treaty, don’t we need to define them?
The issue of partnership is just as opaque. Justice Casey wrote; “I have spoken of what I perceive to be a relationship akin to partnership between the Crown and Māori people”, while Justice Cooke held that; “The Treaty signified a partnership between races, and it is in this concept that the answer to the present case has to be found.”
Thus; even amongst themselves the justices could not agree. Is the Treaty a partnership between the races, or between Māori and the Crown? Or, perhaps, between the Crown and Chiefs and Tribes?
Claiming that the agents of the British Empire envisioned a partnership seems absurdly revisionist to me. But let’s assume I am wrong, usually a safe position, what does a partnership mean in a modern setting; and who are the parties?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350380170/damien-grant-looking-back-1987-understand-treaty-waitangi-principles-debate

Treaty principles
While his speech to more than 10,000 people at Tūrangawaewae Marae in Ngāruawāhia was largely optimistic, Kiingi Tūheitia criticised the Government’s Treaty Principles Bill, which aimed to redefine the Treaty principles, and called for Te Tiriti o Waitangi to be written into legislation so politicians “can’t change nothing”.
… He didn’t make specific references to any proposed legislation but did indicate his strong condemnation for the Treaty Principles Bill, created by Act and agreed to in its coalition with National. “There’s no principles, the Treaty is written. That’s it.” – Maori King, Kiingi Tūheitia
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/maori-king-calls-for-hope-over-protest-while-dismissing-govt-treaty-bill/M2EXZG3JLNHTPFKEEUFK7Z5QXY/

“There’s no principles, the Treaty is written. That’s it”
I would agree with Maori King, Kiingi Tūheitia. as far as he goes above.
He would still need to announce what version he considers “is written! That’s it!”
But “principles” were not written.

I believe ACT is making a vast mistake even associating their proposed law with the Treaty at all – except the confusion over it, and their own assumption it may have any “principles”, is a context that demands the law to clarify all New Zealand thinking and legal establishment – on the issue of rightful government, protection of legally owned property rights, and that all New Zealanders are equal in rights and responsibilities.

Having established those fundamentals of democracy, then come back and decide if the Treaty is a fit to the law, which should logically and legally be determined without it.

If Seymour put forward his proposed law, stripped of the Treaty, who with an intact brain would oppose it?
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August 18, 2024 8:11am
- Damocles11
  
  The ‘principles’ are already enmeshed in law as fas back as the 1970’s as a phrase used in the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975. These ‘principles’ were then codified in 1987. The whole purpose of Seymours bill is to supplant these now established principles with a set that are wholly more universal, so as to halt the intensifying division we are seeing. If he doesn’t make his bill about ‘the principles’ then it will be utterly pointless. If you are suggesting revisions to the existing law to remove the reference to ‘principles’ then I believe you’d see a whole new level of Maori opposition, and as the wet woke National of Luxon and Potaka aren’t supporting Seymours moderate and sensible bill past select committee then it goes without saying they won’t be removing all references to ‘principles’ from existing legislation dating back to 1975. It saddens me to see Seymour being chastised over his bill by people from the Right; he is doing something, while National and NZ First are doing absolutely nothing.
  
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  August 18, 2024 10:14am
  - Yvette
    
    Damocles11, do you miss the point perhaps, that if the ACT act simply “established the fundamentals of democracy, then come back and decide if the Treaty is a logical and legal fit to that law?
    If Seymour establishes a need to state the Government has a right to govern, can Luxon disagree or say otherwise.
    And Maori present division and superior separatism does instigate the need to establish: Government needs the right to govern. Simple, non?
    
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    August 18, 2024 11:39am
    - Jake Dee
      
      Government needs the right to govern. Simple, non?
      No, absolutely not.
      I’ve explained this point many times but as this question (and it is an important one) keeps on coming around again and again I will continue to explain it, although I will try some different analogies this time.
      My basic position is that The Government is The Government because it governs, that’s it.
      Any entity that can bestow or remove “the right to govern” is itself the government. Any entity that feels the need to seek out this right is never going to be a sovereign power only a sub-contractor to the sovereign power.
      Consider this analogy, what makes someone a (medical) Doctor? In this time and place to be a doctor you need a medical license, pass various tests hold certain certificates and so on, which in turn depend on various other tests qualifications certifications etc.
      Does any of that make you a doctor? Does diagnosing illness, creating and prescribing medicines, performing surgeries and therapies have any part to play?
      Do not confuse “the right” to be a doctor with the actual reality of being a doctor.
      Or how about this more political analogy about who or what gets to be the government.
      I remember years ago learning about Bonnie Prince Charlie and the Jacobite rebellion. I was amazed and confused that there were thousands of serious men who really believed that this young man was “The True” King of Britain. If you had of asked them why, they would have told you a story about his father and his father’s father and the divine right of kings.
      But none of that mattered, Prince Charlie fought and lost, that is why he was not the king, William of Orange fought and won and that is why he was the king.
      Later on, various stories are told about how this was the way things were always supposed to have happened and the idea of “the right” to govern are maintained.
      These stories are important essential even, but they are still just stories. and this is why ACT trying to get some sort of legislation through parliament to define the rights or nature of government are doomed to fail.
      They just don’t have the “juice” “mana” or spiritual power to create a story powerful enough.
      
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      August 19, 2024 3:36am
  - Sparrow
    
    Lets be realistic. Seymours Law is dead in the water. It will never get support from National. So why have a talk fest that will cause more division. You can write the submissions now from both sides. The media will love it.
    It will cost a fortune to have this circus for what.? Seymour is not going to pull support from the government on other issues. Government controls the purse strings so controls who gets what. Luxon should pull it now yes he will be criticised but more important issues and it will shut up the media. Its not being a coward it’s being realistic fight battles you have a chance of winning.
    
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    August 18, 2024 11:40am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      If the Bill does not get support from National then activist Chris Luxon is dead in the water. I am sure he knows this.
      Let the arm wrestling begin!!
      
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      August 18, 2024 5:21pm
      - Ghost
        
        No. This is not a national bill, national didn’t campaign on it. The party that did continues to fall in the polls. Will act survive this? Seymour won’t.
        
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        August 18, 2024 5:34pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Ghost,
        
        Are you telling me and all here that because Luxon will not support beyond the first reading that all of NATIONAL will vote the same?
        Strange, I thought New Zealand was a Democracy, not a “do as you are told by your leader” by Luxon bully.
        
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        August 18, 2024 7:01pm
      - Ghost
        
        You do understand the meaning of party policy right? Stop drinking the cool aid from the con artist you follow. David Seymour signed an agreement with national and nz first to take it to the first reading. That’s all he agreed to. Any issues with that you should take up with his inability to get a decent deal
        
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        August 18, 2024 7:21pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Ghost, effectively hand over control of NZ to those with some Maori ancestry? Feeding the crocodile makes you think you won’t be eaten?
        
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        August 19, 2024 3:40pm
    - PurplePen
      
      Luxon won’t pull pin early. There’s nothing he likes less than to cause conflict and controversy.
      
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      August 18, 2024 6:22pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Sparrow: “So why have a talk fest that will cause more division.”
      
      The only “division” will be from shouty and abusive racist plonkers who’ve had it their way for far too long.
      
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      August 19, 2024 4:12pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    You refer to the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975. Which only lists the 3 clauses of the treaty. No principles here.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1975/0114/latest/whole.html
    
    Ah but you referred to codified..1987.
    
    What you should have said was interpretations of various courts as to the Principles of the Treaty.
    
    Including the famous but usually misquoted judgement from Lord Cooke of Thorndon in an Appeal Court case.
    
    What he actually said was
    
    an enduring relationship of a fiduciary nature akin to a partnership, each party
    accepting a positive duty to act in good faith, fairly, reasonably and honourably
    towards the other
    
    Since then, activists of all hues have been quoting him as saying he called the Treaty a Partnership.
    
    He didnt and it isnt.
    
    It seems to me that ACT is attempting to put those decisions back where they belong. A decision of elected representatives(Parliament) not any old Judge who thinks he or she should decide.
    
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    August 18, 2024 2:43pm
    - Damocles11
      
      ‘In New Zealand law and politics, ‘the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi’ is a phrase used in the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975.‘
      
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      August 18, 2024 5:44pm
Chuck Bird

This is not premium. It does not say what science or economic qualifications these people have. Have they weighed the cost benefits of nuclear power compared to offshore wind turbines? I doubt it.

British delegation visits Taranaki for offshore wind partnership possibilities

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/british-delegation-visits-taranaki-for-offshore-wind-partnership-possibilities/PXJRRXZ47FHKDNG7K36S6Y6I5U/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=nzh_fb&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1723877643
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August 18, 2024 8:14am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Chuck,
  these Taranaki folks are at the local business ends of things. They don’t have to be scientists…
  They look to have their heads screwed on by checking out how other folks (The Brits) have managed off-shore wind developments.
  
  They know they have a resource – ceaseless wind – that can be harnessed. That’s their focus….. not a Nuclear energy plant.
  
  There’s already plans for an offshore wind farm in the area… backed by the NZ Super Fund and a Danish group.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/488950/new-port-required-at-patea-for-offshore-windfarm
  
  Anyway, just like the other untapped South Taranaki Bight resource (Iron sands)… these folks will have to deal with the local TPB-Green anti-development brigade.
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:17am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    The proposal for an off-shore wind farm in South Taranaki is a very solid one. And the jobs it produces will be great news for a town which has struggled since it lost its freezing works.
    
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    August 18, 2024 9:23am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      You should watch Sky News Aust to see how wind and solar do not work. Peter Dutton is no fool. It he is PM he has picked five sites where he will put nuclear plants. The left in Oz promised $275 a year less for power with solar and wind. The price has gone up any times more. There is no place in the world that can provide power with a baseload be it fossil fuel or nuclear.
      
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      August 18, 2024 10:15am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Nuclear makes sense for Australia because they have the world’s largest uranium reserves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_reserves
        We have no uranium to speak of; but being an archipelago, we have a lot of windy coastline. So what makes sense for us is different.
        
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        August 18, 2024 11:03am
    - JimBobJoe
      
      So does the proposal include:
      
      How to put out fires in the turbines when lights up? If not why not?
      
      How to decommission the Turbines in 25 years when they are toast?
      
      How to safely and environmental friendly recycle the constituent parts of the decommission turbines especially the blades (note burying them is not the answer)?
      
      And of course how to install, operate, maintain and decommission the installation with zero government subsidies through the cycle?
      
      Wind is a niche approach and may be fine for Taranaki, but it still needs to answer these and other questions before it goes ahead.
      
      And as an aside wind farms are phenomenally ugly – better hope there are out of sight
      
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      August 18, 2024 11:20am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      I have been away all day. The following clip from the Outsiders is worth a view.
      
      Albanese government’s ‘reckless renewables’ movement slammed
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx74H5M06Yc
      
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      August 18, 2024 5:54pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    The Global Wind Atlas says “yes”, we should be harnesssing wind power offshore, and not just off Taranaki.
    https://globalwindatlas.info/en
    
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    August 18, 2024 9:33am
    - Mod88
      
      You don’t like Whales…? a lot of dead Whales off the US East Coast since they built those massive off-shore Wind Farms. Water being the best transmitter of noise naturally. Goodbye endangered Dolphins etc.
      
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      August 18, 2024 12:10pm
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Can you provide a link to substantiate your statement?
        
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        August 18, 2024 1:53pm
      - Ghost
        
        Nope
        
        https://www.npr.org/2023/02/25/1159025632/dead-whales-east-coast-misinformation-offshore-wind
        
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        August 18, 2024 3:31pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Whales aside, offshore wind is a dumb idea. Very expensive for very little net gain.
        
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        August 19, 2024 3:41pm
  - Handyman
    
    To be precise, this windfarm is not backed by the NZ Super fund. Thye will only invest if the government guarantees a percentage return. So ultimately it is backed by New Zealand taxpayers and electricity consumers through higher power bills.
    
    We will know if this proposal is totally unrealistic and uneconomic if we hear “putting New Zealand on the map” or worse, making New Zealand a “world leader” in green energy.
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:38am
    - peterwn
      
      This touches on an utterly fundamental point which many people do not seem to appreciate. If there is a Government requirement for a margin of power production to cover most or all contingencies (including Black Swan events), the Government must either take the commercial risk of over-capitalisation or allow the cost of such over-capitalisation to be recovered from customers by one way or another. For example after being ‘stiffed’ by the Electricity Authority Genesis Energy needed assurances and guarantees from other generators and the Electricity Authority before deciding not to scrap the three remaining ‘Rankine’ units (250MW each) at Huntly.
      
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      August 18, 2024 12:25pm
  - Handyman
    
    In the US, the green lobby is firmly behind the windfarms, even though it accepts the construction will kill many whales.
    Check out this trailer for a doco on the subject.
    https://youtu.be/uUONUh0A6Z8
    
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    August 18, 2024 11:03am
- Scott
  
  According to Powerline blog on the move to wind and solar –
  “This is why we are now starting to have blackouts. And they are only beginning. It is worth noting that there is not a single demonstration project anywhere in the world–not one!–to try to show that it is feasible to operate even a single city, town or village on wind and solar energy. The reason is, it isn’t feasible, and the people who are getting rich on the “green” fraud know it.”
  
  https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/03/why-wind-and-solar-will-never-work-2.php
  
  The wind turbines off Taranaki will be ridiculously expensive. They won’t produce much energy for the investment. Far better would be oil and gas exploration off the coast.
  
  Wind and solar will never work. The Germans are dismantling wind turbines to make room for a coal mine!
  
  https://www.nationalobserver.com/2023/09/20/news/germany-wind-turbines-torn-down-coal-mine-rbc-financing-sustainability#:~:text=Observer%3A%20Climate%20News-,In%20Germany%2C%20wind%20turbines%20are%20being%20torn%20down%20to%20make,and%20RBC%20is%20financing%20it&text=%2FX%20(Twitter)-,Wind%20turbines%20are%20being%20dismantled%20to%20make%20way%20for%20a,it%20using%20%E2%80%9Csustainable%E2%80%9D%20finance.
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:18am
  - Jack5
    
    Scott’s … The Germans are dismantling wind turbines to make room for a coal mine!
    
    The Germans are moving back to mining lignite, of which NZ’s Southland has huge resources – enough to generate all of NZ’s electricity for centuries.
    
    This link tells of Germany’s project to replace an 13th century village of the Sorb minority with a huge opencast lignite mine:
    
    https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/investing/2024/07/09/the-coal-industry-is-wiping-a-historic-german-village-off-the-map/
    
    For those who like trivia:
    
    Australia’s Barossa Valley wine industry seems to have been founded by descendants from immigrants from the German Slavic minority mentioned above. They are known both as “Sorbs” and “Wends.”
    
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    August 18, 2024 1:12pm
- CJames
  
  Chuck
  Normally what these developers want before they will commit to building is a signed agreement for someone to buy their power. (They are probably also getting overseas subsidies, but that is a different matter). That buyer would only be interested in buying if they had alternative generation that they can start or stop as wind goes up and down. Selling only on spot market is just too risky. So the buyer would need significant hydro assets with reasonable water storage, not run of river schemes. That narrows it to big 4 and Meridian/ Contact’s storage is in the South Island where there are DC constraint issues getting it to market. For the other two, they are near tapped out in their cover. One of the big 4 may take a risk for good PR – but there will be a lot of caveats.
  My guess is there will be a lot of noise, maybe a deal signed, but no sod turned until a government came in which will pay the ridiculous Net Zero subsidies. In UK- offshore wind isn’t getting built at $300/MWh. “Average” price here is about $130 – less for the unreliables.
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:26am
  - CJames
    
    They have a solution to get more offshore wind in the UK. Increase the subsidies!!
    https://www.sustainableviews.com/uk-told-to-increase-energy-auction-budget-or-miss-offshore-wind-targets-a5b6720f/
    One can see if any of the proponents went to Economics 101, it was only to eat their lunch
    
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    August 18, 2024 12:30pm
- JJ56
  
  UK public servants living it up with NZ public servants as far as I can see.
  
  Not a cost benefit analysis of anything in their bones.
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:27am
David Garrett

Chuck: I can confirm from personal experience that it blows like fuck offshore Taranaki…in fact the weather is similar to that encountered in the North Sea. I once spent time on A large diving ship…we spent more time sailing around the Maui A Platform waiting on weather than we did actually working on it.
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August 18, 2024 8:24am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  But the wind farms do not work in High Winds.
  
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  August 18, 2024 8:51am
  - Colville
    
    Surely they would be designed for the expected wind speed …. engineers are pretty smart with their slide rules.
    
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    August 18, 2024 12:20pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  FYI
  
  How windy is too windy for wind turbines?
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slpT2UaiuEk
  
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  August 18, 2024 8:52am
imalwaysright

Dr Levy does not rule out sabotage within the health system:

“Of course there’s resistance and, who knows, even sabotage. Who would know? There are people who will do their own thing”

If so, that means police, judges, and jail.
We cannot tolerate this in any government department, let alone health.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/08/17/pray-for-me-health-nz-commissioner-says-as-he-faces-resistance/
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August 18, 2024 8:26am
- AitchW
  
  The government has been facing a hostile public service since it was elected. The Sir Humphries hate their cosy little world being shaken up. It’s time for some very senior heads to roll.
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:53am
  - Paulus
    
    Problem is that there are large areas of the next layers in line, and again, who support trying to bring the Government down.
    Anybody not falling into line is out – full stop.
    Remember it is the women, many now in the top layers of Government, who would welcome Ardern back.
    It is the many layers now that are the problem not just the top ones.
    Remember that they all have been judged as best persons for the jobs.
    Helen Clark said “Women can do anything”, and that has been encouraged ever since as we are now seeing in some 53 % of the top named jobs as was reported here a short while ago.
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:20am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I vomit every time Clark mentions glass ceilings
      
      10 2
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      August 18, 2024 10:42am
      - Inandout
        
        G, the mind boggles picturing that ceiling.
        
        1 1
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        August 18, 2024 11:24am
    - NK
      
      Helen Clark believes that freedom speech advocates are ideological extremists. That says enough about her. Her protege, Jacinda Gayford, has the same belief.
      
      16 1
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      August 18, 2024 11:02am
    - Mike
      
      Watch out for ‘the women’, huh? Scary creatures, aren’t they?
      
      2 10
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      August 18, 2024 11:38am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Feminists tend to be pretty horrible and myopic in general. They’ve succeeded in creating huge mistrust between genders.
        
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        August 19, 2024 4:14pm
    - AitchW
      
      That’s true, but if the second, third, fourth etc layers see the top layer being culled, then it might just encourage them to stop the silly games and actually carry out the tasks they’re paid to do.
      In addition presumably the sacrificial lambs will be replaced with executives who are better disposed to carry out government policy.
      Nothing focuses the mind quite like a guillotine in the town square!
      
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      August 18, 2024 11:45am
      - Paulus
        
        Doubtful as 2nd 3rd etc layers want to move up to the next highly paid layer.
        
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        August 18, 2024 2:04pm
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    Amen to that aitch! Time for some accountability
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:22am
- Sacha
  
  Who remembers Lester Levy when he took charge at Tauranga Hospital and brought it up to spectacular speed?
  His reputation soared.
  But his next project failed miserably (was it North Shore?) and he departed quite quickly.
  What will it be this time round?
  
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  August 18, 2024 4:12pm
rouppe

Millions spent fixing copper pipes in Wellington hospital

Due to corrosion within its copper pipes, the hot water system in Wellington Regional Hospital building is at risk of ongoing leaks and a systemic and catastrophic failure.

It used to be that copper hot water cylinders and pipes were the norm because they were so reliable. The move away from that material was, as far as i remember, due to cost.

Can someone tell me why these copper pipes are corroding? The water comes from the same source as every other homeowners water, doesn’t it?
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August 18, 2024 8:29am
- greybeard
  
  Low-quality Chinese copper pipes, I hear.
  
  10 2
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  August 18, 2024 9:48am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    They were meant to be Australian…..manufactured by Crane Enfield Metals.
    
    However… The legal case about the dodgy piping —-that should have lasted 50+ years was settled out of court….so the Public never found out exactly who had ballsed up.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/123042903/wellington-hospital-leaky-pipes-case-settles-on-eve-of-marathon-hearing
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:02am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The settlement should not be confidential – it was built with public money.
      OIA.
      
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      August 18, 2024 10:23am
      - Mike
        
        What was the last OIA request you made, Steve?
        
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        August 18, 2024 11:39am
  - Burtland
    
    low-quality chinese copper …
    
    what it actually is is a kiwi cowboy company knowingly buying cheap product from china and selling it at a spec it doesnt meet – an easy way to a big boat in the marina
    
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    August 18, 2024 1:22pm
- Colville
  
  It says $70Mil has been spent fixing 20km of pipe.
  
  That is $3,500 per meter.
  
  Back in the day I did that stuff for a job … we used to charge like a wounded bull but $3.5K/M is just taking the piss !!
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:55am
  - Dougal23
    
    No, just the hot water pipes. The ones taking the piss cost more per meter.
    
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    August 18, 2024 11:03am
    - Colville
      
      So the ones taking the piss would be plastic… (well uPVC)… and a lot cheaper. Also no insulation/cladding or valves.
      
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      August 18, 2024 12:23pm
- AitchW
  
  I’m reminded of Labour shrieking about the state of Middlemore when it was first elected. If I recall correctly there were accusations of raw sewage running down the walls.
  6 long years of neglect?
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:56am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Turns out it was simply a broken pipe behind a wall, repaired as soon as found. Arden to her final days stated this lie, even though she had been shown to be a liar
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:44am
- Gussy Fink-Nottle
  
  (Apparently) a combination of factors did for the Wellington hospital pipework, including impurities in the copper, issues with the water filtration, commissioning, pressure, and temperature.
  The hot water in the pipework was literally scouring the copper, especially at sharp bends.
  This may not have happened with better pipes, or better water control.
  The cost to rectify is largely the disruption, decamp, temporary services, and associated construction work.
  And the new pipes have dual redundancy, so twice as much pipe as previous.
  
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  August 18, 2024 10:39am
  - AitchW
    
    Sounds a lot like a balls up from the word go. If this was a private building the builders would be in the gun for the cost of repairs.
    However it’s publicly owned, so no consequences!
    
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    August 18, 2024 11:47am
- Inandout
  
  rouppe, the copper pipes attached to our old HWC were made of heavy copper so we retained them for the new cylinder.
  
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  August 18, 2024 11:27am
- NothingLeft
  
  In some parts of the country it was, by regulation, mandatory to use copper fittings for plumbing even though it was well known that it corrodes in slightly acidic groundwater present in many locales. This led to endless problems with underground and in-wall copper fittings for polyethylene or pvc pipes leaking.
  
  Basically councils forced a well known problem on the public, even though there were better options.
  
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  August 18, 2024 11:53am
- Burtland
  
  under the last water regime – chlorine was added to a lot of water supplies – this damaged many existing hot water systems – millions of damage in Christchurch alone
  
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  August 18, 2024 1:15pm
  - Paulus
    
    I call that Rubbish – prove what you have said !
    Typical this from Christchurch.
    
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    August 18, 2024 2:06pm
  - greybeard
    
    Do you have any evidence of chlorine-induced pipe failure in any other NZ location ? We would like to see it.
    
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    August 18, 2024 4:19pm
Chuck Bird

“I can confirm from personal experience that it blows like fuck offshore Taranaki”

That may be true but I doubt if there has been a cost-benefit analysis to compare with nuclear.
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August 18, 2024 8:45am
- David Garrett
  
  Chuck: of course there won’t have been any kind of comparison with nuclear…for the very good reason that nuclear will never happen in NZ…too much opposition to it both informed and completely ill informed
  
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  August 18, 2024 8:58am
  - Waipuk
    
    Nuclear will happen but it will take time for options to be turned around. Just like the GE bullshit.
    
    Some brown / black outs, cold nights, a few people dieing at home because their respirators failed.
    
    And Ofcourse high energy costs.
    
    You can have as many solar panels, windmills, and dams but when it don’t shine, no wind, and no rain what is next?
    
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    August 18, 2024 9:19am
    - Colville
      
      Absolutely… Once again DG needs to look up the definition of “never”.
      
      We just need a few hundred oldies to freeze to death in winter for the Greens to get behind it. Because they care so much. //
      
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      August 18, 2024 9:56am
      - AitchW
        
        Frozen oldies = reduction in population. The Greens will celebrate such a positive result.
        
        6 2
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        August 18, 2024 11:22am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Frozen oldies = reduction in population.
        
        Not necessarily…
        
        As long as youngsters are still doing what young folk are want to do, then the population could increase.
        
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        August 18, 2024 1:25pm
      - AitchW
        
        MW, I believe you meant ‘wont’ to do…
        If it’s cold enough to freeze the oldies then perhaps the youngsters may be taking to their beds earlier of an evening with the obvious and inevitable outcome.
        
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        August 18, 2024 1:38pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @AitchW
        good spotting
        
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        August 18, 2024 3:27pm
    - David Garrett
      
      Waipuk: FWIW while I remain strongly opposed to nuclear weapons in our fair land, I have come to the view that nuclear is indeed our long term best option for power generation…the biggest remaining worry is earthquakes…Fukushima (sp??) Was a wakeup call for all of us who live in earthquake prone areas
      
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      August 18, 2024 9:59am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Someone the other day wrote about Fukushima saying the earthquake was not the problem, it was the failing of the backup generators caused by the tsunami. Generators used for emergency cooling.
        Not sure if I got that all correct, but it goes back to design with no tsunami protection.
        
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        August 18, 2024 10:36am
      - sirknz
        
        Come on DG, I thought you were a bit more nuanced than this. The Fukushima reactors, built in the 60s, survived the earthquakes largely intact, it was the poorly placed back up generators that failed due to the tsunami afterwards.
        
        More modern reactors don’t have theses same failure points and have many more passive safety features that make a meltdown nigh impossible.
        
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        August 18, 2024 10:40am
      - JimBobJoe
        
        Valid concern DG re earthquakes. But surprisingly there are parts of the North Island that don’t experience massive earthquakes.
        
        I seem to recall that Northland is one such place. Palmerston North as well – its why there is a major Telco hub there (well used to be my knowledge is a bit out of date). Hamilton is another place…. lets make the Tron truly the City of the Future!
        
        Putting a few Nuclear power plants in Northland not to far north of Auckland would solve a lot of issues with feed electricity into the top half of the North Island where the large majority of our population is.
        
        The thing to overcome would be hysterical Green Party/Greenpeace (aren’t they the same organisation now in reality!) campaign against the build of Nuclear power plants
        
        Its more than technically feasible and makes solid long term energy security sense. (Well there is another reason the greens would object – it would make sense!)
        
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        August 18, 2024 11:32am
      - NothingLeft
        
        So when China says; nice country you have there, think we’ll take it. And USA et al says, yeah, we’re not going to risk a nuclear war trying to stop them as they have in Ukraine, what do we do?
        
        The last decade has proven that you can’t trust other countries to have your back when it puts them at significant risk or cost – the agreements aren’t worth the paper they are printed on. Look after your own security, no one else can be trusted to back you up..
        
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        August 18, 2024 11:58am
      - CJames
        
        The original plan for siting the nukes was on the South Head of Kaipara harbour. From a security, location and feeding into the grid point of view, that is an ideal site. Construct double feeders to both Albany and Henderson switchyards, plus a lighter line going north and they are set for next 60 years growth.
        
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        August 18, 2024 12:37pm
      - Burtland
        
        get Ngāpuhi to build one in Northland – it will all be good
        
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        August 18, 2024 1:33pm
    - Paulus
      
      In the North Sea I understand that small Diesel Engines are attached to keep the turbines turning in no/low winds.
      
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      August 18, 2024 10:23am
      - OlderChas
        
        Surely there is a picture or video somewhere showing a floating diesel tanker going around topping up those diesel generator tanks? Or is there a pipeline to each wind generator alongside the cables bringing the power to shore?
        
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        August 18, 2024 11:22am
    - Jack5
      
      Not just earthquakes to consider.
      
      Auckland’s 53-volcano field Is regarded as low probability “on human time scales,” but an eruption could be devastating.
      
      Last eruption was Rangitoto about 600 years ago.
      
      So, if nuclear, no reactor in Auckland.
      
      https://www.geonet.org.nz/about/volcano/aucklandvolcanicfield
      
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      August 18, 2024 10:44am
      - Colville
        
        Somewhere in Waikato would seem logical.
        Low seismic risk, close to lots of people and industry, a really BIG river and best of all an iwi gatekeeper who would love to own it or at least be a “partner” with an offshore owner.
        
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        August 18, 2024 12:31pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  There they go again. You said that bad word “NUCLEAR.”
  Now the green nutters are all rolling around on the floor making stupid noises and having anxiety attacks!
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:09am
- Steve Todd
  
  […] but I doubt if there has been a cost-benefit analysis to compare with nuclear.
  
  Why would there have been, Chuck? I doubt that nuclear power is even on the radar. Even deciding to scope out the possibility of building nuclear power stations in New Zealand is probably at least 20 years away.
  
  Right now, it’s your obsession alone. I doubt the “relevant authorities” are giving it much thought at all.
  
  Have you sounded out Simeon Brown, the Minister for Energy, yet?
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:12am
  - Chris Nisbet
    
    Luxon tells us that nothing is off the table…
    Of course, he is a politician, so he might mean that nothing is off the table except for the things that are off the table.
    https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/christopher-luxon-prime-minister-in-studio-with-mike-hosking-to-talk-electricity-retail-crime-congestion-charges/
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:05am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    20 years away? I sort of remember that being said way over 20 years ago. The time has come.
    Uptick for you anyway.
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:39am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Lets see how Politicians respond when we have a cyclical low water year combined with a very cold winter with little wind which means wind turbines are shown to be useless. The resultant blackouts will sharpen a few minds.
    
    Thinking about Nuclear should be happening now.
    
    Reviewing and reviving Oyster Point on the Kaipara harbour as a site for a reactor would be a good place to start. (Note this initial thinking and planning was happening in the late 1960s!!!)
    
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    August 18, 2024 11:39am
greenfinger

It would be interesting to see how many kiwis think Adrian Orr should resign given his track record as the reserve bank governor?
31 1
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August 18, 2024 8:50am
- pdm
  
  greenf – that would be most of us.
  
  Orr is a man promoted way above his capabilities.
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:49am
  - Geri Sjovik
    
    Or to his level according to the Peter principle?
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:39am
- Burtland
  
  seems Katie Bradford has more sway than Brad Olsen
  
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  August 18, 2024 1:39pm
Inandout

The Greens and assorted fellow travellers will point to Japan as an example of nuclear gone wrong but I don’t think NZ has earthquakes on that country’s scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_power_plants_in_Japan
https://teara.govt.nz/en/map/4416/new-zealand-regions-at-greatest-risk-of-ground-shaking
The North of NZ is virtually earthquake free and I grew up in that area being unaware of how a quake felt, until I spent time in Manawatu. I know this is dream material but think of how many workers a nuclear plant in the Far North would employ?
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August 18, 2024 9:15am
- AitchW
  
  Christchurch was virtually earthquake free too, till it wasn’t.
  Having said that I’m sure there are fail safes to mitigate against earthquake.
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:59am
  - Ghost
    
    At the time Christchurch had one of the strongest peak ground acceleration. Now the 8th strongest. 2016 Kaikōura quake remains the strongest
    
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_ground_acceleration
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:07am
  - David Garrett
    
    Aitch: Well, assuming they had them, fail safes didn’t work at Fukoshima…
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:18am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Fukushima was taken out by the huge tsunami that followed an offshore quake. They had big seawalls that had been enough in the past (tsunamis had hit Japan before) but were not enough this time. Drowning the reactors killed the coolant systems and the rest was history.
      
      For the record, noone died …
      
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      August 18, 2024 10:29am
      - NothingLeft
        
        I thought their was one guy who got a fatal dose?
        
        From memory it was the back up diesel powered pumps getting flooded that caused the Fukushima melt down. Easily mitigated (and would never happen in future reactor designs)
        
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        August 18, 2024 12:01pm
      - Colville
        
        Nothing.
        IIRC approx 20,000 died in the tsunami and one from rad exposure. and its the nuke accident that is remembered.
        People are strange.
        
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        August 18, 2024 12:34pm
      - rouppe
        
        As a consequence of that failure design changes have been made.
        
        Significant design changes were made after Chernobyl too. Which is why there wasn’t another nuclear plant failure with the same root cause as that.
        
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        August 18, 2024 12:42pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Fukushima was cleaned up pretty efficiently compared to Chernobyl. Chernobyl cleanup was a nightmare shambles because it was managed by a communist regime.
        
        That said, Fukushima should never have happened. I think you’ll find Japan is returning to nuclear and will learn bigly from Fukushima.
        
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        August 19, 2024 4:20pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        The Chernobyl reactor blew its top and sprayed radioactivity in mega amounts – a plume that went right across Europe. Fukushima was relatively small stuff by comparison with much less radioactivity released.
        
        Not that I am a fan of the soviet union, the Ukraine government made some fairly heroic efforts to deal with it.
        
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        August 19, 2024 4:34pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        This one is quite an eye opener on just how horrible and shambolic the Chernobyl disaster was under the Soviets.
        
        SBS on Demand:
        
        Chernobyl: The Lost Tapes
        https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/tv-program/chernobyl-the-lost-tapes/2352741955560
        
        Note: A VPN and video downloader software can prove helpful in some circumstances.
        
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        August 19, 2024 6:24pm
  - Paulus
    
    Where do you get that comments from about Christchurch EQ free, and of course building over Liquifaction ?
    
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    August 18, 2024 10:25am
  - Burtland
    
    The quake risk assessment was faulty – they had to import a big shaker machine from Canada to find the fault under Christchurch – then they promptly sent it back
    
    One would have thought they should have bought one and surveyed all population centers in NZ
    
    The same has happened with the liquefaction risks – done for christchurch and put in the ad hoc code but has it been done for anywhere else?
    
    Given Wellington is (probably) NZs biggest risk – little seems to have been learnt there.
    
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    August 18, 2024 1:53pm
- MCōs
  
  Apart from anything else there isn’t even decent vehicular access beyond Warkworth, the power supply is dodgy, the roads are constantly washed away and healthcare has been neglected for decades
  All that would need to be brought up to scratch as a priority before consideration given to a power plant
  
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  August 18, 2024 10:13am
  - Matt Long
    
    It’s not mutually exclusive to have a reliable transport and electricity network.
    
    2 1
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    August 18, 2024 10:41am
  - NothingLeft
    
    These are all regulatory problems. Too many safety elves and busy-work administrators, not to mention unreasonably extreme environmental regs applied to road works imposing enormous unnecessary costs on all infrastructure development and health systems. They are luxuries we can no longer afford.
    
    Look at staffing levels and costs for a job 30 years ago vs today in these sectors and you will find the source of the problem
    
    4 1
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    August 18, 2024 12:04pm
- rouppe
  
  I grew up in Rotorua. Earthquakes were common.
  
  The problem with the far north is Ngapuhi. Any consent would be tied up in Treaty claims for decades, unless significant greasing of palms occurred.
  
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  August 18, 2024 12:38pm
  - Burtland
    
    thought Ngapuhi didnt sign …
    
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    August 18, 2024 1:55pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yes they did.
      
      1 1
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      August 18, 2024 5:58pm
  - Paulus
    
    Is that why Ngapuhi will not do a Treaty Settlement, as they longer they procrastinate, the higher the money they expect, so they can keep bitching all the time or ever.
    So no Deals in the foreseeing future ever.
    
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    August 18, 2024 2:12pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Swallowing the colonisation story…. Who benefits?

Most of the attacks on ‘colonisation’ in present day New Zealand are really attacks on the inescapable reality of modernity, the modernised world all peoples are navigating.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/aaron-spencer-narratives-about-colonisation-should-not-stand-up-to-scrutiny
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August 18, 2024 9:22am
- John Loveridge
  
  Looks like the Abos aren’t too keen on being re-colonised by Maoris.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/aboriginal-community-opposes-maori-plans-for-14m-marae-in-sydney/Q4WEC3RGLZACROMQKWHCA4RXGE/
  
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  August 18, 2024 9:25am
  - Yvette
    
    Abos, an offensive abbreviation for Australian Aboriginals
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abos#:~:text=Abos%2C%20an%20offensive%20abbreviation%20for%20Australian%20Aboriginals
    
    Just saying, should you be saying –
    but ‘yes’, you are right
    Apparently Australian Aboriginals to not want that location of a Marae for several reasons
    
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    August 18, 2024 9:55am
    - Paulus
      
      By my dictionary Maori could be considered Aboriginal too !
      
      5 2
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      August 18, 2024 10:26am
      - Yvette
        
        But not ‘Abos’
        
        6 1
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        August 18, 2024 11:41am
    - Inandout
      
      Yvette, we are forbidden to write the ‘n’ or the ‘c’ word in full so where does it stop? The many times I have visited Oz those people were often referred to as Abos. The Aussies have a penchant for shortening words.
      
      7 1
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      August 18, 2024 11:37am
  - Colville
    
    From a town planning POV is a marae any different to a synagogue or mosque?
    
    Possibly a few more Saturday arvo beersies at the marae…??
    
    5 1
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    August 18, 2024 10:00am
O C Smith

Gas delivery in Timaru was scheduled for 15th Aug rescheduled twice to 17th then 19th. How serious is the current national shortage?
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August 18, 2024 9:55am
surfing

Absolutely fed up with boy racers right to cause mayhem on public roads.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/footage-emerges-online-of-ute-ramming-police-car-during-hamilton-invasion-car-meet-up/4FRWCPYE5REWZAZGUPCV7W5BVI/

About time New Zealand starts locking these pieces of crap up.

Our lazy good for nothing Politicians need to start doing their job, put in some strong sentencing laws so boy racers can be locked up for a year or two.

Similarly to how police operated recently in the UK, locking up hundreds of rioters and putting their photos in the press. Guarantee it will stop the problem overnight as little jonnie won’t like the idea of sharing a prison with hardened gang members.
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August 18, 2024 10:02am
- Ghost
  
  If a teen rapist gets a Playstation vacation what makes you think a judge will send a boy racer to prison.
  
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  August 18, 2024 10:12am
  - MCōs
    
    It’s like anything else
    They have to be convicted of something first.
    Driving down the road over the speed limit ain’t a hanging offense
    Count yourself lucky
    In Bangkok I saw cars racing down a main street with the police helping with crowd control and causing huge traffic jams.
    
    3 1
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    August 18, 2024 10:39am
  - surfing
    
    This is why I said the politicians need to change the law.
    
    These problems are directly attributable to Chris Luxon and his cabinet. Only these people have the power to stop this, and they don’t!
    
    Mark Mitchell talks tough, but, he doesn’t really do much at all.
    
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    August 18, 2024 11:28am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Depends on the perp’s superficial identity features. That’s the main thing in these clown-world days.
    
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    August 19, 2024 4:23pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Is it time for a new Labour Party?

But the need for a party created by and for the working class remains; a party which will not abandon its socialist principles like Labour has. Activists, socialists and trade unionists in Aotearoa are faced with the question: when is the right time for the formation of such a party?

https://thestandard.org.nz/is-a-transformational-left-wing-leadership-of-the-nz-labour-party-possible/
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August 18, 2024 10:11am
- Damocles11
  
  They should go ahead and start their ‘National Socialist New Zealand Workers Party’. That’ll put the Unions in a tough spot. Once the proletariat have formally & officially abandoned Labour they can finally change the party name to Te Mahi Pati and elect Willie Jackson as leader.
  
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  August 18, 2024 10:21am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Thats very clever Damo….
    
    7 1
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    August 18, 2024 11:42am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Te Pati Mahi – I love it. Though in reality they’re more Te Pati Korero.
    
    5 1
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    August 18, 2024 1:57pm
- David Garrett
  
  Mags: A new Labour party would be great news; splitting the left vote just nicely …and since they would be splitters based on ideoloy, I doubt they’d get on as well as ACT and the Nats do…by and large at least
  
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  August 18, 2024 10:23am
  - AitchW
    
    Didn’t Jim Anderson try that a while back? Had his party appointed a less poisonous and embittered leader it might have succeeded…
    
    8 0
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    August 18, 2024 11:51am
  - rouppe
    
    They (arguably) might not get on, but they would join forces, no question.
    
    Before the last election you would have said ACT and NZ First wouldn’t get on, but here we are…
    
    3 1
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    August 18, 2024 12:30pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Some people might argue that we already have two of them!
  
  12 2
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  August 18, 2024 10:23am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    That’s what I find interesting…
    
    Seems TPM and The Greens are not attractive to blue-collar, red bands working folk.
    
    17 3
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    August 18, 2024 10:28am
    - Mike
      
      I don’t know why folks on Kiwiblog are so obsessed with Marxist concepts of class.
      
      3 16
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      August 18, 2024 11:44am
      - NothingLeft
        
        Because it permeates everything now as a result of the deranged left taking over academia and indoctrinating two generations of ovine university arts grads.
        
        12 4
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        August 18, 2024 12:07pm
      - rouppe
        
        Because of the infestation of Marxism in the Green Party, the Maori Party, and to a lesser extent the Labour Party. The latter are more plain old Communists.
        
        5 2
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        August 18, 2024 12:31pm
      - Swifty
        
        I don’t know why some folks on Kiwiblog are so obsessed with what Maggy W. posts.
        
        4 4
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        August 18, 2024 12:39pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Hells bells, Mickey mike, you haven’t jumped on the Identity politics bandwagon have you?
        
        Doesn’t anyone out in Petone-Hutt Valley-Wainuiomata believe in the working class anymore?
        
        7 2
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        August 18, 2024 1:30pm
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Yes, so old-fashioned, isn’t it Mike. You modern leftists abandoned class for gender and ethnicity a long time ago, didn’t you?
        
        8 1
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        August 18, 2024 2:16pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Don’t bother. He isn’t interested in engaging honestly. Just a legend in his own lunchtime thinking he’s saving the world by camping out here pissing on people.
        
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        August 19, 2024 3:46pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      red bands?
      
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      August 19, 2024 4:26pm
- Swifty
  
  It’s a long time since I read something as demented, hysterical, and just plain wrong as that piece from Elliot Crossan.
  
  That gentleman has a lot to learn. Hopefully he’ll come right one day, once he gets a bit older.
  
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  August 18, 2024 11:03am
- JimBobJoe
  
  Ah the old New Labour boys still wanting their own party. tried that and it failed even with the thoroughly Left Wing militant Jimbo Anderson leading it and Labour basically giving him Sydenham as his own fiefdom to ensure a place in Parliament
  
  Greg and Lynn are batshit crazy Lefties who will never be happy until a one party state is set up and there are local district governors with their own personal NKVD to clean out wrong think
  
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  August 18, 2024 11:49am
- peterwn
  
  It already exists. It is called the Green Party.
  
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  August 18, 2024 12:49pm
Pope Punctilious II

The Herald calls on the government to take a “bipartisan” approach to education: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/editorial-educationschool-curriculum-nz-needs-a-long-term-bipartisan-approach/ZLHJPCOYFNEC7KFS4HPUBMNQIM/
Do you remember when the Herald called for a bipartisan approach at the height of the previous government’s culture war assault on NZ’s institutions? No, I don’t either.
25 1
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August 18, 2024 10:19am
- septic skeptic
  
  Yup. When your side is in charge we should collaborate and compromise. When we are in you can F OFF!
  
  18 1
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  August 18, 2024 10:36am
- Geri Sjovik
  
  The collectivists always want to work together when they aren’t in the drivers seat.
  
  11 1
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  August 18, 2024 10:45am
- Handyman
  
  It is a common pattern.
  When National is in government the media call for a bi partisan approach.
  When Labour is in power the media calls any opposition “divisive”.
  
  Watch for the use of the word “controversial”. Rarely used (if ever) for the Auckland tram to the airport, but often used for any government scheme when National in power.
  
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  August 18, 2024 10:47am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Other controversial ideas include:
    – Nobody is born in the wrong body
    – Free speech is vital for democracy
    – Indigenous “knowledge” (mauri, wairua etc) shouldn’t be taught in modern science courses.
    
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    August 18, 2024 2:14pm
- surfing
  
  Bipartisan approach means one side will have to accept that the maori educational system is not the best.
  
  This will never happen, because adopting the best educational system will always breach the principles of the treaty of waitangi .
  
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  August 18, 2024 6:12pm
nathie

“Damien Grant: Looking back to 1987 to understand Treaty of Waitangi principles debate”. (Stuff article).

I believe Damien Grant has written with some clarity and neutrality on the issue (and if anything the article could be further expanded upon as it provides only a brief, concise look at the issue from a historical and judicial lens and I’m left with wanting to know more)!

Damien Grant also acknowledges the hurt perpetuated on Maori Chiefs and Tribes:

From 1840 to 1975 the Crown was selective with respect to the Treaty. Emphasis was placed on the surrender of sovereignty and the Crown’s pre-emptive right to acquire land, but the rights of the Chiefs and Tribes were frequently ignored or violated.

All I would hope for would be the protagonists on both sides, but especially so the radical and revisionist sides (who are wanting to take the nation back to 5 Feb 1840 and keep it there) to consider these words of wisdom from Damien Grant:

Accompanying this trend has been an elevation of the Treaty to something approaching a sacred text, ascribing to the document a meaning and significance beyond what it appears that the signatories intended.

The reason why we cannot agree on what the principles of the Treaty are perhaps reflects that we are trying to infer what we wished the parties to have agreed to in 1840 as distinct from they actually did.

And more importantly, as a nation we need to look forward and whilst acknowledging the past, not be stuck in it. As Damien Grant succinctly ends his article:

The enduring principle that we should take from 1840 was the willingness of both parties to seek creative and enduring solutions to what looked to be intractable difficulties. That required courage, wisdom, and a determined focus on what could be rather than an obsessive focus on past grievances.

Whilst watching the All Black demolish Argentina (another colonising nation) last night I was reminded on how far we have come as a multi-cultural nation (in terms of the backgrounds of the All Blacks).

If the All Blacks, of different heritages, can work together for the best outcomes moving forward … then why can’t we all (from both sides) also work together for the best outcomes moving forward?
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August 18, 2024 10:35am
- Ian Boag
  
  Funny you should mention Argie and colonisation.
  
  Some years ago we were there as tourists. Went to Bariloche which is on the east side of the Andes – has a lake ans ski hills and stuff – pretty much their version of Queenstown.
  
  Anyway in the main square there is a statue of one General Roca on a horse – apparently his claim to fame was that he roamed the pampas and shot anyone who looked indian …
  
  Go figure.
  
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  August 18, 2024 6:57pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Just a mistake……

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/08/18/te-pati-maori-mp-to-amend-electoral-return-over-branded-van/
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August 18, 2024 10:41am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Yes, and now they should look closer to the apparent corruption with that ballot box, no wonder she is hiding behind health issues
  
  18 1
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  August 18, 2024 10:49am
- Swifty
  
  Next time I’m caught with a few pounds of pot or a few freshly shot deer and an illegally held hunting rifle, that’s what I’ll plead, “that there was a misunderstanding about the relevant laws and I’ll be sure to follow them in future, but that I should be allowed to carry on on my way with my pot and rifle and carcasses as just as this MP gets to continue to enjoy her electoral victory.”
  
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  August 18, 2024 11:12am
- AitchW
  
  Hmmm a National mp underdeclares (by mistake, he didn’t understand the rules) his election expenses and the matter is referred to Police.
  A Maori Party mp doesn’t declare a donation (which it could be argued she made to herself) and is allowed to amend her return.
  One can only assume that either the electoral commission is either scared of being accused of racism or it is hostile to the government.
  Both are unacceptable.
  
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  August 18, 2024 11:38am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Electric Vehicles Copper Demand Exceeds Global Mining Capacity.

Forget about running out of oil/gas/coal, we will run out of copper.

EVs are so clean.//

https://crystalclearnews.com/electric-vehicles-copper-demand-exceeds-global-mining-capacity/?
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August 18, 2024 11:27am
- NothingLeft
  
  Aluminum can be swapped in for most stuff (at higher cost and lower convenience in creating fittings)
  
  5 1
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  August 18, 2024 12:09pm
- Hard Cheese
  
  Meh. EV manufacturers will start moving to 48V architectures to reduce the amount of copper required for wiring. And it can always be recycled out of old ICE vehicles LOL. Copper production worldwide has increased 40% over the last 10-15 years, if demand increases supply will increase as prices rise. You should stop reading articles from hennypenny.com
  
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  August 18, 2024 2:36pm
Jack5

The big strike.

Reuters says more than a million doctors are expected to join the strike in India in protest at the rape and murder of a doctor.

There has already been a shutdown of emergency services across the country.

The doctor, described as a trainee, aged 31, was killed inside the medical college in Kolkata (the old Calcutta).

In another move affecting Indian women, the world’s biggest electronics manufacturer, Foxconn, is under fire for allegedly rejecting married women for assembly jobs at its plant near Chennai (previously Madras).

Reuters reports that Foxconn’s chairman, Young Liu, said in Chennai yesterday only:”Foxconn hires regardless of gender, but women make up a big part of our workforce here.”

He spoke at the the opening of a Foxconn hostel that will house up to 18,720 unmarried women who will work at the company’s Chennai iPhone factory.

Foxconn is a Western name of Taiwan-based Hon Hai Precision Industry Co. Ltd, which trades as Hon Hai Technology Group in China and Taiwan.

In 2023, Foxconn’s sales totalled about $NZ316.2 billion. For a number of years it has reported been having more than a million employees.

Last month, for example, it hired 50,000 new workers at its Zhengzhou iPhone factory in China.
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August 18, 2024 11:31am
- Jack5
  
  On review, I thought I had make a mistake with Foxconn’s 2023 sales. $NZ316.2 billion. So high!
  
  NZ’s total exports were $24.2 billion in the December quarter of 2023.
  
  However, I’ve just found that this year’s April monthly sales of Foxconn were $NZ29.27 billion. So no mistake.
  
  Foxconn’s bigger than NZ – in sales.
  
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  August 18, 2024 4:15pm
Steve Todd

Many Kiwibloggers will know how disgusted I am with five-time draft dodger Trump’s comments denigrating Medal of Honor recipients during a speech on Friday afternoon (our time).

Jesse Dollemore now gets stuck into Corporal JD Vance for “bending the knee” to Trump, regarding the latter’s disgraceful comparison between the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Congressional Medal of Honor, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esvqGesFlrk [11 minutes].
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August 18, 2024 12:04pm
- Taieri
  
  And why should we be concerned about “five-time draft dodger Trump’s” comments?
  
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  August 18, 2024 12:22pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    @Taieri @ 12:22PM
    
    Because, come 6:01AM on Tuesday 21 January 2025 (our time), this ghastly shell of a man, a man who has led a charmed life of crime and self-service, may again be the leader of the free world, that’s why.
    
    Here is a more calmly delivered, devastatingly effective, annihilation of the man who hopes to be again the Commander-in-Chief of people he mocks and literally despises; a man who many Kiwibloggers hope will be re-elected President of the United States: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J6ni4XzLBg [14 minutes].
    
    It’s well worth your time.
    
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    August 18, 2024 1:34pm
    - Taieri
      
      a man who has led a charmed life of crime and self-service, may again be the leader of the free world
      ————-
      
      And who will be the “leader” if he is not? The choice is not exactly all that great. A bit like choosing between the flu and Covid, isn’t it?. Not that we are doing the choosing anyway…
      
      9 2
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      August 18, 2024 2:02pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Taieri @ 2:02PM
        
        Kamala will be the leader if he is not. I would have thought that was obvious.
        
        As I occasionally say, Taieri, I put up these posts in the interests of balance. Hey, it’s fun. I want Kiwibloggers to have easy access, via my links, to commentary they might not otherwise be exposed to.
        
        I know that I spend a lot of time accessing clips on YouTube of comments by people who are, shall we say, to the Right of me. I do that, because I want to know what “they” are thinking.
        
        I also, on the other hand, like to think that Kiwibloggers are doing the same, although I doubt many are. To gently nudge those who are not, along the path “of righteousness”, I post links to commentary that I think they should see. Like I say, it’s fun.
        
        No, we’re not doing the choosing, but what’s that got to do with anything? US politics/elections may not (overly) interest you, but they certainly interest many other Kiwibloggers (including me, since 1964). You only have to go back through the Kiwiblog archives, leading up to US elections, to see that.
        
        The choice may well not be “all that great”, but we all know, each of us, who we want to win, don’t we?
        
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        August 18, 2024 4:20pm
    - AitchW
      
      As the good people of South Park remarked 8 years ago the American voter has in November to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.
      The American political system is quite mental.
      Imagine having the choose between a giggling lightweight like Harris and a blustering oaf like Trump.
      A textbook example of Hobson’s choice…
      
      7 3
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      August 18, 2024 2:26pm
    - Conservatarian
      
      Hidin’ Harris and Tampon Tim [ Mod : knock it off ]
      
      3 4
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      August 18, 2024 2:35pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Exactly
    Its also just the ‘Medal of Honor’.
    Its ignorant to call it the Congressional Medal of Honor
    ‘It is often, but incorrectly, referred to as the Congressional Medal of Honor.[13][14]’
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor
    
    But what I think is more interesting is how Todd ignores the disgraceful comments of his hero Cenk Uygur who has made comments far more disgusting than Trump ever has. Yet Todd continuously posts Videos from the sexist pig and not a word of condemnation.
    Heres a few Links evidencing those comments.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20020319052056/http://www.youngturk.com:80/rulesof.htm
    https://www.thewrap.com/young-turks-cenk-uygur-blog-breasts-women-flawed/
    https://web.archive.org/web/20051223065712/http://www.youngturk.com:80/Articles/xcountry1.htm
    https://variety.com/2019/digital/news/bernie-sanders-cenk-uygur-retracts-endorsement-backlash-1203436658/
    I’ll let Kiwibloggers judge for themselves the extent of Todds rank hypocrisy.
    
    7 5
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    August 18, 2024 1:38pm
    - Mike
      
      All_on_Red isn’t game to defend Trump’s contempt for veterans.
      
      3 5
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      August 18, 2024 3:19pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Quite the opposite. Military and law enforcement front liners overwhelmingly support Trump. They know he supports them. “Contempt” is bailing out rioting violent loony crims (during a pandemic no less) and calling for the military and law enforcement to be de-funded.
        
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        August 19, 2024 4:33pm
- Ra Henare
  
  So Steve, you are disgusted. So what?
  
  We all have our opinions. It’s called the rich pot-pourri of life.
  
  My opinion is just that. My opinion. It means nothing in the overall scheme of things. The same applies to you and others opinions.
  
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  August 18, 2024 2:19pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Hi, Ra.
    
    Totally agree.
    
    But, how can I say what I think/feel, if I don’t say what I think/feel?
    
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    August 18, 2024 4:57pm
Jack5

Will Elon Musk be born again?

Tim Higgins writes in the Wall Street Journal that Musk s is publicly offfering his own interpretation of Jesus’s teachings, but with an Old Testament twist.

Higgins reports a recent Musk X post: “Christianity has become toothless. Unless there is more bravery to stand up for what is fair and right, Christianity will perish.”

Musk was raised an Anglican in South Africa.
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August 18, 2024 12:36pm
- NothingLeft
  
  No. Post reformation christianity is culturally useful – encourages good pro-social behavior in a liberal context, particularly in women as gatekeepers of sex with strong emphasis on monogamous norms and family cohesion that are good for getting best out of men and providing optimal environments for raising productive kids.
  
  But to expect an intelligent person with a creative mind and a belief in science and rational priors to believe in the whole wobbly a-historic edifice of Christian mythology and dogma is not going to happen.
  
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  August 18, 2024 5:20pm
Ra Henare

What planet are Newstalk ZB on?

I flicked on to their website to be greeted with the largest non story in the political world.

James Coney? Trashed by congress, a failed wannabe. Commenting on his opinion on what might be.

Newstalk would be better off analysing Nostradamus.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/the-sunday-session/audio/james-comey-former-fbi-director-concerned-about-the-impact-of-a-second-trump-presidency/
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August 18, 2024 2:15pm
Swifty

I completely agree that we need new rules and new laws to combat political corruption in NZ:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/525475/tougher-rules-needed-to-combat-risk-of-political-corruption-helen-clark-foundation

Some I think essential are:

1. Make it illegal for political parties to legislate a minimum wage.

2. Make it illegal for political parties to legislate people being forced to enter or be covered by industrial relation bargaining a la the Fair Pay legislation.

3. Make it illegal for political parties to issue grants, loans, subsidies or any other monies to private citizens or organisations for any reason whether they be media companies, arts organisations, Maori development outfits or any other.

4. Make it illegal for the government of councils to call for or adopt the living wage.

5. Make any and all forms of racial discrimination illegal, including ‘positive discrimination’ (aka affirmative action) and the calling for it by anyone.

As we know, political parties have been buying votes through these means for generations and it is a particularly pernicious form of corruption in New Zealand and must be stopped.
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August 18, 2024 2:33pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Eat your heart out, Tory!

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7296282
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August 18, 2024 2:59pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Sorry, Bolly, but why should Tory “eat her heart out”.
  
  Surely, you’re not suggesting that, secretly, she wants that to happen in Welly?
  
  Please explain.
  
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  August 18, 2024 5:08pm
Jack5

New Woke shackles …

The Britain’s recently elected Left-wing Government plans to broaden the legal definition of terrorism to encompass misogyny, the UK media report.

An online definition of misogyny is “hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls”.

Yvette Cooper, the UK Home Secretary, says the Government will look at tackling violence against women and girls in the same way as it addresses Islamist and far-Right extremism.

The “Telegraph” says this could mean teachers will be legally required to refer pupils they suspect of extreme misogyny to Prevent, the UK Government’s counter-terror programme.

The newspaper says a present extremist category, “incel,” refers to a male subculture that includes violent feelings towards women as a result of feeling rejected.

Officials now fear that this category does not capture other forms of extreme misogyny.

There are several other categories ranked by the Home Office as areas of concern, including Islamist, extreme Right-wing, animal rights, environmental and Northern Ireland related extremism.

Nothing there for Woke terrorists, Green-eco terrorists, or anti-free speech thugs.
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August 18, 2024 3:49pm
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  We can look forward to similar “delights” here next time LINO and the Rainbow Party get into power.
  
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  August 18, 2024 8:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Nancy screaming on live TV.
Lefties, basement please for 5 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbTk6AY400o
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August 18, 2024 4:03pm
greybeard

How good is this Wellington NPC team ?
Down 5 – 19 at half time they won 26 – 19.
I see another Championship win this year !
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August 18, 2024 4:04pm
- MCōs
  
  They can’t rely on atrocious weather every week
  
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  August 18, 2024 6:19pm
thirteenstars

Australian senator in a committee hearing asks penetrating questions of the agency that monitors the supposed gender pay gap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR0ZCOyKMZM

Turns out the agency annualises part-time incomes for women (who work more part-time jobs) and compares them to annual incomes for men, but fails to take into account the actual hours worked by men and women thereby producing the specious gender pay gap which is supposedly 15% in Australia and as I recall is said to be the same in NZ.
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August 18, 2024 4:15pm
Pineapple Lumps

While it is hard to compete with high tech tv and movies for entertainment these days, the theatre still has a unique place to make us think, feel emotions and develop empathy outside of our direct lived experience.

I attended the play “Home Land” at the Rose Centre (Belmont North Shore) this weekend. This is a play written by NZ writer Gary Henderson. It tells the story of Ken’s, an 80+ year old West Otago farmer, last weekend on the farm. While there were comedic moments, it was very poignant and really challenged me about the way we deal with our family as they near their final years.

Community theatre is an underrated, yet valuable part of our culture. The volunteers involved in these put in many hours of hard work and have very small budgets but generally produce high quality work. Id like to encourage you, even if it’s not your usual activity, to get out there and experience some of your local theatre this year.
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August 18, 2024 4:25pm
Ian Boag

Funny you should mention Argie and colonisation.

Some years ago we were there as tourists. Went to Bariloche which is on the east side of the Andes – has a lake and ski hills and stuff – pretty much their version of Queenstown.

Anyway in the main square there is a statue of one General Roca on a horse – apparently his claim to fame was that he roamed the pampas and shot anyone who looked indian …

Go figure.
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August 18, 2024 7:23pm

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