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August 10, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 10 August 2024

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General Debate

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Gordon Shumway

Government has jacked up the cost of visas even though international tourism has still not recovered to pre-COVID levels. They continue to say that the border forces should be “self-funding” even though tourism generates about $4 billion in GST and around $7 billion in total.

They also cut tourism marketing and investing in major events. So much for wanting to double exports.
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August 10, 2024 8:05am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  The headlines I’ve seen focus on immigration, not tourism.
  
  While I’ve some sympathy for people caught part way through the process & who will have budgeted at the old fee level, the fact remains that immigration should be measured on the benefits it provides us, not on what we can do for them. If jacking up the fees pours money into the Consolidated Fund over & above the cost of providing the visa service, I’m ok with that.
  
  Note that the negative comment comes from an immigration adviser, ie a vested interest.
  
  http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/chinese/524669/visa-fee-hikes-will-discourage-migration-to-new-zealand-immigration-advisors
  
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  August 10, 2024 8:49am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “If jacking up the fees pours money into the Consolidated Fund over & above the cost of providing the visa service, I’m ok with that.”
    
    The fees will never be set to recover more than the cost of providing the service. There are legal barriers to setting fees beyond full cost recovery.
    
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    August 10, 2024 9:52am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      They stated yesterday about half a billion over 4 years
      
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      August 10, 2024 11:01am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I am that they did. Does the fee revenue exceed the cost of running the relevant services?
        
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        August 10, 2024 12:04pm
  - Gordon Shumway
    
    Isn’t that what I did in my post? The benefits from tourist are around 7 billion annually in total tax take of which 4 billion is GST. There is no way all that is spent on supporting tourists and or dealing with “negative externalities” as the bureaucrats call it. Tourism is our second largest export sector but we introduce visa-processing cost increases without any concern for our competitive position attracting people here.
    
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    August 10, 2024 12:07pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Don’t most tourists enter visa free? Chinese tourists are the only significant group that requires a visitor visa.
  
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  August 10, 2024 8:59am
  - PurplePen
    
    And a good chunk of them pay for everything before they enter the country, bus, accommodation, food, excursions. So not a high value tourist.
    
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    August 10, 2024 10:23am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      That is not correct.
      
      It makes no difference whether they pay upfront or not.
      
      Chineae tourists’ average spend per day is higher than for Australian and UK visitors. Barring some shock, China will be far and away New Zealand’s most lucrative tourism market over the medium term.
      
      https://tinyurl.com/2s4jj58f
      
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      August 10, 2024 11:15am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        I can’t understand why Chinese people love to visit NZ as they such a remarkable country of diverse landscapes and culture within their own borders.
        
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        August 10, 2024 12:59pm
    - gravedodger
      
      Often paid to a Chinese tour operator as apparently the operator of the two buses that crashed on black ice near the Pukaki dam was based in Auckland.
      
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      August 10, 2024 1:57pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    It has nothing to do with tourism
    
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    August 10, 2024 11:01am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Well not strictly correct. They are raising the price of all visas. How is that “nothing” to do with tourism?
      
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      August 10, 2024 12:06pm
  - Gordon Shumway
    
    Largest emerging outbound markets such as India need visas. These are the markets that other countries are falling over each other to attract. We make is harder and more expensive for them to get here because we think Nz is special.
    
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    August 10, 2024 12:08pm
- Paulus
  
  With the changes in the World currently, and as anticipated, there must be doubts of New Zealand recovering tourists pre Covid levels.
  Times they are a changing, seriously !
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:01am
- kowtow
  
  Tourism is terrible for the planet .
  Any govt or politician that claims there’s a climate change anything ( hint ‘I’ve sent her some homework ‘ / “If you’re a climate denier or climate minimiser today, that’s just not an acceptable position,” ) must also strive to end international , nay , even domestic tourism.
  
  Otherwise they’re just lying , virtue signalling , hypocrites.
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:05am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Indeed. The best thing the New Zealand government could do for global emissions would be to run ads in Europe. “don’t come to New York Zealand. Holiday in France”.
    
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    August 10, 2024 9:55am
    - kowtow
      
      Yes , the small boat syndrome could be reversed and people sail or row their way to La Belle France .That way there’d be no emissions from the travel and far few tyres burned in the streets of the deindustrialised towns and cities of the English north .
      
      Plod might even get a breather .
      
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      August 10, 2024 10:06am
    - JackRabbit
      
      And ban all overseas flights paid for by the taxpayer. If anyone wants to see overseas contacts, do it over Zoom, or give them a canoe and paddles.
      
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      August 10, 2024 11:19am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “And ban all overseas flights paid for by the taxpayer”
        
        Yes well that does not always work. Do you think that the PM could announce that he is never going to meet any of his counterparts in person? You think that New Zealand officials can negotiate agreements with Chinese counterparts over Zoom? No not a chance.
        
        I don’t know whether you have travelled extensively overseas on business. I did it several times. All paid by the government. Yes I flew business class. I was working a minimum of 12 hours a day 6 days per week. The folk I was with did the same. No we could not do what we were doing by zoom.
        
        Yes I am sure there are slackers and grifters. However for the most part such trips are all meetings, rushed eating and being separated from family. I eventually chucked it in for that reason.
        
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        August 10, 2024 12:14pm
  - Gordon Shumway
    
    Satire presumably, or are you also expecting all aviation cargo to end as well?
    
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    August 10, 2024 12:10pm
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  Does anyone know of a “headshake, more in sorrow than in anger” emoji? Perfect here.
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:18am
- PurplePen
  
  If a tourist visa needs to be issued before they can holiday in NZ then they’re probably not from a country that has a population that has a high value currency and not much interest to us. As someone has pointed out it related to immigration rather than tourism.
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:22am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Chinese tourists need a visa. They are an important market.
    
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    August 10, 2024 11:28am
    - 7kiwi11
      
      Are they though? I only see them on Chinese run bus tours and stopping at Chinese run restaurants and tourist shops selling stuff made in China.
      
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      August 10, 2024 11:46am
      - ISeeRed
        
        Yep. Would definitely like to see a breakdown and analysis of their spending vs. other countries.
        
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        August 10, 2024 1:02pm
  - Gordon Shumway
    
    You’re wrong.
    
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    August 10, 2024 12:09pm
- PurplePen
  
  I’d also question the real value of tourism to the NZ economy. Sure, the tourist eats at a cafe, goes on an excursion both of which are possibly employing someone on a tourist visa in which case it’s a money-go-round. I can see how in a 3rd world country tourism is useful, it assists the extremely low wage economy. Do we have that. No.
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:27am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    You miss one point, they pay gat on every cent
    
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    August 10, 2024 11:05am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Tourism is important. It is the second highest source of foreign exchange after dairy.
    
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    August 10, 2024 11:32am
    - Gordon Shumway
      
      Tourism and hospitality employs around 330k people. What are low skilled NZers going to do in the future – seems unlikely that everyone will find jobs in the screen sector or coding.
      
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      August 10, 2024 12:12pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        We can just get more immigrants! Problem solved! Until they become citizens and hospitality robots then arrive and a handful of net taxpayers are left with the bill of paying our “new New Zealanders” and everyone else UBI.
        
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        August 10, 2024 1:04pm
  - Gordon Shumway
    
    You probably need to learn more about open economies work if you “question the value” of tourism. A “tourist” includes business travellers and convention travellers etc, not just holidaymakers. Every time a kiwi goes overseas, they take their spending power with them. When we bring in planes with imported products, we also import high-spending tourists who spend way more on restaurant dinners, attractions etc than resident kiwis. This spending essentially supports the restaurants you only go to on your birthday or in school holidays. A vibrant visitor economy is essential for all great (ie livable and wealthy) cities.
    
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    August 10, 2024 12:04pm
- Handyman
  
  I think many people, especially on the left, confuse refugees with migrants.
  
  In theory we accept highly skilled people to fill shortages in New Zealand or who will investing in New Zealand based businesses. We can pick and choose only the best immigrants from around the world.
  
  That policy is a hangover from the post war period. In 1960 New Zealand had the second highest GDP per capita behind the USA and 50% higher than UK. We had a need for highly skilled immigrants who could quickly fit in to the New Zealand way of life, so went out and recruited people from mainly austerity Europe. These people knew there was little social welfare in New Zealand and were coming to work.
  
  In 2024:
  New Zealand GDP per capita is 22nd in the world, so logically we get immigrants from worse off places. We do not get a queue of people we actually need/want. We tried recruiting nurses but they prefer one of the 21 countries paying more than us.
  However, we have a very attractive package for low skilled people with minimum wages 60% of the average wage (highest by far in the world). A knock effect is that immigrants displace New Zealand workers to the dole.
  The second wave of family reunification has changed the ratio of workers (taxpayers) to consumers. Sure, they buy groceries but put a load on public services such as health.
  
  So the effect of our immigration policy is:
  Attract hundreds of thousands of low skilled people to displace indolent New Zealanders in the workforce.
  Attract hundreds of thousands of older non tax-paying immigrants to put a massive load on the health system.
  Be unable to attract professionals (eg health) to support the increased population.
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:53am
  - Paulus
    
    New Zealand does not have any say about Refugees who come here.
    That decision is made by the UN and we have to accept that.
    
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    August 10, 2024 11:20am
    - Handyman
      
      To clarify, my comments related to the 150,000 immigrants, not the 1500 refugees.
      
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      August 10, 2024 12:04pm
      - Jack5
        
        Handyman’s (in 10.24 post): …. In 2024:
        New Zealand GDP per capita is 22nd in the world.
        
        The authoritative CIA World Factbook reports that for real (i.e. inflation adjusted) GDP per capita, New Zealand in 2023 ranked 44th in the world. The 2024 year isn’t complete.
        
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        August 10, 2024 7:38pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Don’t forget millions upon millions in remittances every year back home.
    
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    August 10, 2024 11:35am
  - Burtland
    
    and on the other side of the scales …
    
    the highly skilled locals emigrate to one of the 21 countries paying more than us, pay taxes there, and return only when they need free medical care, redundancy support or a pension
    
    the net kiwi tax payer takes the sucker punch
    
    “NZ punches above its weight blah blah blah”
    
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    August 10, 2024 12:10pm
  - Quail
    
    Glad you mentioned the 1960$ And beyond.
    Per person productivity was important back then in NZ and encouraged.
    Now in Aotearoa not so, so let’s live off the rest of the world?
    
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    August 10, 2024 6:11pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Not sure this has anything to do with tourism
  
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  August 10, 2024 11:00am
  - Gordon Shumway
    
    Then why raise the visitor visa category so much? It has a major impact on tourism whether or not the decision has “anything to do with tourism”.
    
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    August 10, 2024 12:01pm
  - kowtow
    
    Benefit tourism.
    
    Just watch how many “western” nationals are being evacuated from Lebanon , again.
    
    At huge cost to the domestic taxpayer.
    
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    August 10, 2024 12:34pm
Matt Long

Emergency services complaints that speed bumps were costing lives were ignored. Simeon Brown has changed that.
https://x.com/SimeonBrownMP/status/1821751384162889963
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August 10, 2024 8:13am
- CJames
  
  Removing existing raised crossings! That will certainly upset the woefully misnamed Lets Get Wellington Moving organisation and the left wing concillors. Maybe now the council will do what is supposed to and fix the existing infrastructure. Remember, no 6 Waters money to bail them out. But that doing the knitting would go against their every fibre so I can’t see it happen.
  
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  August 10, 2024 8:20am
  - pdm
    
    There are two plus a stupid round a bout in Waipawa (SH2) that need to be got rid of.
    
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    August 10, 2024 8:59am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Drive along Rifle Range Road in Hamilton.
  
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  August 10, 2024 8:35am
- John Loveridge
  
  Excellent! Common sense and plain English from Mr Brown. I hope this puts a spoke in the Christchurch City Council’s wheel – they’ve gone raised crossing crazy lately.
  
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  August 10, 2024 8:35am
  - JackRabbit
    
    @$500k per raised crossing, how will the Blackrock owned HEB make enough money to allow Blackrock to continue to buy out NZ, if the crossings are removed?
    
    I wonder what the cost is to remove them? Another $500k?
    
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    August 10, 2024 9:01am
    - AitchW
      
      Surely it can’t cost 500k to build a raised crossing?
      
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      August 10, 2024 9:56am
      - Colville
        
        Not even 10% of that but still a massive waste of money
        
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        August 10, 2024 11:05am
      - JackRabbit
        
        That’s what I thought.
        
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        August 10, 2024 11:21am
      - Damocles11
        
        That’s what it costs. Now they are being removed. We are living in a madhouse. ‘Your tax dollars at work’.
        
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        August 10, 2024 11:34am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Colville
        
        AT has chewed through $6 million on 12 signalised crossings at an average cost of $500,000 and is in the process of spending close to a further $7m on 15 more crossings as part of a road safety programme.
        
        Mayor Wayne Brown has been scathing of AT for spending $490,000 on a new raised pedestrian crossing at Williamson Ave in Grey Lynn, not far from his home, calling the $172,000 cost of traffic management “a disgrace”.
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-transport-spends-600000-to-install-pedestrian-crossing-and-rip-it-up-to-reinstate-road-in-three-kings/WANBSCBTT5GKJGBDJAJJ63562U/
        
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        August 10, 2024 12:10pm
    - alloytoo
      
      Must come as a surprize to Vinci group, they thought they owned HEB.
      
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      August 10, 2024 10:19am
      - JackRabbit
        
        No, check your facts. Blackrock is a significant shareholder, or it was 4 months ago.
        
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        August 10, 2024 11:22am
    - PurplePen
      
      5 minutes work, well a little bit more than that, with a small excavator. Takes no time. Putting out the necessary road cones will take longer.
      
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      August 10, 2024 10:31am
  - kowtow
    
    Many councils have , up and down the country . No mandate , just anti car agenda. Copying international “best practise”.
    
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    August 10, 2024 9:08am
    - MCōs
      
      You’re wrong of course
      It’s a safety measure and while I agree there are too many in some places, others need them where none exist currently
      Outside my house for example
      Cars race down the road well in excess of the limit with no pedestrian crossing, raised or otherwise.
      A lot of kids cross the road either on their way to school or from a local preschool heading for Mt Mangere
      All it would need would be some hoon flying down the road to take out about six preschoolers
      
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      August 10, 2024 9:35am
      - AitchW
        
        Perhaps chicanes that emergency vehicles can more easily negotiate would be a better solution?
        
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        August 10, 2024 9:57am
      - Matt Long
        
        There’s studies showing that traffic can be slowed by creating the impression of a narrow street by crossings, with visual barriers and islands, traffic can be slowed without bouncing ambulance passengers off their beds.
        
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        August 10, 2024 10:06am
      - kowtow
        
        Your problem is a licensing and enforcement issue .
        
        Always has been .
        
        If speed bumps , tree planters , concrete blocks , green paint and cycle paths etc were really about safety they’d have been done across the west a long time ago .
        
        This has nothing to do with safety , though it’s dressed up as that .
        
        It’s eco nuttery anti car, anti freedom,anti democratic , far left agenda.
        
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        August 10, 2024 10:10am
      - Grumpy Silver Top
        
        How many so far? My point is that if we constantly protect children from danger they forget it exists. Kids need to learn to protect themselves.
        
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        August 10, 2024 10:28am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        How the hell is a raised crossing a safety measure? People walking on a none raised crossing are safe, unless a nut bar drives through a crossing while people are walking on it
        
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        August 10, 2024 11:09am
      - Keith White
        
        So, imby.
        
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        August 10, 2024 12:53pm
    - Drone
      
      There you said it kowtow “International Best Practice”. For many NZers speed limits do not apply so an alternative had to be found, it was.
      
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      August 10, 2024 12:18pm
      - kowtow
        
        Effective enforcement is still the answer .Always has been. What we see now is punitive against all drivers .
        
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        August 10, 2024 2:07pm
- rouppe
  
  An announcement…
  
  Some councils – looking at you Wellington, and porirua – need to have some public shaming performed.
  
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  August 10, 2024 8:58am
  - Burtland
    
    stocks & pillory for humilation of this weeks government fool ?
    … some places might need several sets
    
    this would be very popular with the public
    
    https://study.com/learn/lesson/medieval-stocks-pillory-overview-examples.html
    
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    August 10, 2024 12:26pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Please!
      
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      August 10, 2024 1:17pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Also increase car suspension wear/damage, community noise and petrol consumption through repeated braking and acceleration.
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:18am
  - Paulus
    
    They made a raised crossing close to us where there had been a closed road type place and noby can remember any problem tnhere for any length of time.
    They spent a fortune digging everything up and making a raised crossing with the works.
    Two houses next door to the crossing raised claims with their Insurers for damage done by vibrations – which included buses passing.
    So they redid the whole thing, but I have doubts they made any real difference.
    Another one just finished round the corner is having vibration damage too.
    
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    August 10, 2024 11:26am
- PurplePen
  
  He’s brilliant. Funding is available to remove them. Love it. I could never see the sense. Its not as if a bipedal human can’t walk from a flat path down a small incline to road level. And then why have them where you can a crossing controlled by lights. If the lights are red the vehicles slow and stop before you’re allowed to cross. And then .. I’m started now .. why haven’t they done this for all road crossings around Wellington, and then why on main arterial routes. feck.
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:34am
  - Burtland
    
    they slow traffic down and cause congestion – they have reduced speed limit signs as well – this is well underway in christchurch on even large 4 lane intersections
    
    the next step is to introduce congestion charging
    
    Simeon Brown for PM
    
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    August 10, 2024 12:36pm
- Michael Sommerville
  
  And not a word of Te Reo in the letter. Well done Simeon B
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:45am
Matt Long

Boeing’s DEI program continues to pay diversity dividends.
https://www.businesstoday.in/visualstories/news/nasas-sunita-williams-wont-be-coming-back-to-earth-this-year-as-boeing-starliner-fails-on-debut-mission-160827-08-08-2024
Lost in Space, the Dumb and Dumber Addition. (Not Edition)
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August 10, 2024 8:15am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  8 day trip won’t be home until 2025. Is there enough food???
  
  Sounds like being at sea, “just a 3 month trip to NZ, home for Christmas. 11 months later!!!”
  
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  August 10, 2024 8:33am
  - Dougal10
    
    A Gilligan mission
    
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    August 10, 2024 8:58am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    IIRC there are unmanned cargo carrying spacecraft that can supply food and supplies.
    
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    August 10, 2024 9:04am
  - JackRabbit
    
    I can see a new movie in the making. A cross between “Apollo 13” and “Gravity”.
    
    “They thought it was a simple 8 day trip. But when the transport vehicles were permanently grounded, they had to find their own way home. Cobbling together a makeshift escape pod out of recycled plastic containers, a toilet bowl, the kitchen sink, binder twine, #8 wire, and a tube of super glue, they made their bid for freedom.”
    
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    August 10, 2024 9:18am
    - PurplePen
      
      You know, I think KiwiRail could have done a better job than Boeing. Just.
      
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      August 10, 2024 10:36am
- Blackbob
  
  I dislike DEI stuff probably as much as you seem to but I fail to see the connection between the person and the event?
  
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  August 10, 2024 8:42am
- Ghost
  
  Nothing to do with DEI, everything to do with a bad design that has had problems since day 1. Sunita has also had a long career with nasa, long before DEI became a thing.
  
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  August 10, 2024 8:47am
  - Matt Long
    
    The DEI problem is in engineering and manufacturing, some people may be aware of Boeing’s issues with Aeroplanes , and the curious coincidental deaths of whistle blowers.
    
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    August 10, 2024 8:55am
    - Ghost
      
      Problems happen with designing and building these. NASA and space x have a history of failures. Russia and china have a history of failures. This was a manned test flight to find any issues. They found one.
      
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      August 10, 2024 9:07am
      - Matt Long
        
        Problems have happened, but it would be unusual, I would have thought, to have a manned shakedown before code for a return touch down was written.
        
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        August 10, 2024 10:26am
      - All_on_Red
        
        The Code for self flying was written two years ago but when they reconfigured the flight for manned control they changed it all.
        They can undock it but there are concerns they wont be able to control the thrusters if something goes wrong- and being next to the Lab that could be a problem…
        Space X cant dock until its gone.
        Further reporting here
        https://www.upi.com/Science_News/2024/08/07/nasa-boeing-starliner-astronauts-spacex/9901723066341/
        https://legalinsurrection.com/2024/08/starliner-crews-8-day-trip-to-iss-may-morph-into-8-month-stay/
        
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        August 10, 2024 12:31pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Working for a bloated wasteful bureaucracy like NASA isn’t a flex.
    
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    August 10, 2024 9:37am
  - Burtland
    
    apparently AI is going to fix all this …
    
    “By asking smart questions of the AI system we won’t have to wake up some old, retired engineer in the night and keep him on the phone for an hour.”
    
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cw9yzw4ywnpo
    
    the actual crux of it is, no one under 30 will read a 1000page manual to figure out how the stuff works – they need a TikToc video. And to cover a 1000page manual you ll need a 300hr video and if you do a 300hr video you cant easily exact the critical data into text that AI or google can use. And no one can write a 1000page manual any more.
    
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    August 10, 2024 1:01pm
- cmm
  
  Of course the USA could eat crow and get the Russians to bring them back next week.
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:04am
- kevn
  
  Matt… Musk wants to help the stranded astronauts but Boeing not interested. Yet.
  https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/greater-50-50-chance-spacex-may-save-stranded-boeing-starliner-crew-iss
  
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  August 10, 2024 11:21am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Well of course they are not interested. If Musk pulls off a rescue, he will show Boeing up and Boeing might lose the contract.
    
    6 1
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    August 10, 2024 11:28am
    - Burtland
      
      boeing will never lose the contract
      – the whole shebang has been setup so two companies tender for the work
      
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      August 10, 2024 1:06pm
Tomtoddy

Here are two interesting hypothetical questions. Would any of the dams on the Waikato or the Manapouri power station have been built today under the RMA and Māori control of resources?

Can anyone point to any actual harm or loss that has occurred as a result of building those electricity generators? The answers are pretty obvious. Yet we cannot build anymore such structures because we know all that would happen would be years of wrangling, court cases, fat lawyers, overpaid consultants, masquerading as ‘experts’.

It’s a measure of how silly and useless we have become.
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August 10, 2024 8:20am
- mandk
  
  Most of the objectors are BANANAs
  
  Build
  Absolutely
  Nothing
  Anywhere
  Near
  Anything
  
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  August 10, 2024 8:32am
- John Loveridge
  
  Fat lawyers, overpaid consultants, and corrupt iwi leeches.
  
  50 1
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  August 10, 2024 8:37am
  - kowtow
    
    All part of RMA and treaty settlements .
    
    All done by both major parties.So you can add MP’s to that list too.
    
    Dumb and dumber .
    
    27 1
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    August 10, 2024 8:46am
  - Jethrod
    
    KOHA!!!
    
    17 1
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    August 10, 2024 8:51am
    - kowtow
      
      Kohruption.
      
      11 0
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      August 10, 2024 10:11am
  - Inandout
    
    JL, the very same people who frequent expensive restaurants in Wellington, the seat of power.
    
    14 0
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    August 10, 2024 9:02am
- Clyde
  
  Short answer to your two questions. “No” to both.
  
  Time for Shayne Jones to deliver a clear message to the East Polynesian gougers and their Watermelon mates that NZ has been reclaimed for all New Zealanders.
  
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  August 10, 2024 8:43am
  - kowtow
    
    NZF is a big part of the problem.
    
    6 1
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    August 10, 2024 9:32am
  - greybeard
    
    He was on song this morning on NewstalkZB’s “Best of the Country”.
    
    3 0
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    August 10, 2024 10:44am
- pdm
  
  TT – `Underpants Tuku’ will probably be having convulsions at the thought that a new dam might be built somewhere along The Waikato River.
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:03am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I have to ask why is anyone called “underpants”? 😳 Must be obscure New Zealand insult.
    
    8 3
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    August 10, 2024 9:06am
    - Ghost
      
      Because people cannot let go of something that happened 1997.
      
      2 26
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      August 10, 2024 9:09am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        He deserves it Ghost. A reminder of an A Grade trougher.
        
        32 4
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        August 10, 2024 9:17am
      - Clyde
        
        The sour-faced gouger hasn’t changed a whit since he bought his silk undies with public money. Except his greed, racism and sense of entitlement has grown. A nasty piece of work.
        
        22 0
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        August 10, 2024 9:27am
      - kowtow
        
        or 1840.
        
        7 0
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        August 10, 2024 9:31am
      - Mike
        
        Whereas Shane Jones has redeemed himself from his er, irregular expenditure, by promising to build things.
        
        7 5
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        August 10, 2024 9:48am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        1997. That explains why it rings no bells with me. 🙂 They must have been spectacular underwear to be recalled 27 years after the event.
        
        14 2
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        August 10, 2024 10:10am
      - Jethrod
        
        Imagine if the underwear had been recalled….. massive eye roll!!!
        
        10 1
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        August 10, 2024 10:18am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Or 1975 kowtow
        
        4 4
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        August 10, 2024 10:35am
    - sirknz
      
      When he was an MP, be bought expensive (at the time) silk boxers on the taxpayer’s dime.
      
      31 1
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      August 10, 2024 9:11am
      - JackRabbit
        
        He was a director of Aotearoa Television Network, which was govt funded and he went on spending sprees with Aotearoa’s funds, one item of which was an $89 pair of silk undies.
        
        18 0
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        August 10, 2024 9:26am
      - Mike
        
        Before he was an MP.
        
        4 5
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        August 10, 2024 9:48am
      - MCōs
        
        Before he was an MP, when he worked for Aotearoa TV he spent a lot of company money on clothes including some frightfully expensive designer underwear
        Subsequently he was a NZF MP.
        Fancy that
        
        10 3
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        August 10, 2024 9:50am
      - AitchW
        
        It would appear that some believe that because he wasn’t yet an MP it was ok for him to spend $90 on silk undies.
        The fact that he was on the public payroll at the time escapes them.
        I wonder what he expensed while an MP that the man on the Clapham omnibus would find unacceptable?
        A leopard, after all, doesn’t change its spots.
        
        9 1
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        August 10, 2024 11:13am
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      He bought flash boxer shorts on his Govt CC.
      
      7 1
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      August 10, 2024 9:15am
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Hugo Boss Boxers on the publicly funded expense account……. Tuku will forever be Underpants Morgan
      
      14 0
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      August 10, 2024 9:28am
    - John Loveridge
      
      You will have to look into Tuku’s past scandals. A monumentally self-entitled trougher from the cradle, he earned that nickname in yet another moment of disgrace.
      
      14 1
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      August 10, 2024 9:42am
    - Nukuleka
      
      Ben, you have a short memory. You have asked this question- and been answered- in a previous GD post.
      
      17 1
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      August 10, 2024 10:16am
    - Grumpy Silver Top
      
      Yes it is. When an MP on an overseas trip he expensed some dodgy shopping expenditure.
      
      8 2
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      August 10, 2024 10:51am
      - Ghost
        
        The underpants took place when he was with Aotearoa Television Network, not when he was an mp.
        
        4 1
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        August 10, 2024 11:00am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      For the same reason Jones is often called wristy
      
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      August 10, 2024 11:15am
  - kowtow
    
    Don’t forget Finlayson will jump in too with his racist deplorables jibes . And Key with his thermometre moment .The Ngats bare a huge responsibility in this whole constitutional fiasco which has such huge significance for the rest of the country in terms of …….well just about everything.
    
    And electorally what have they gained .
    
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    August 10, 2024 9:12am
  - CJames
    
    In the original plan for the damming of the Waikato, there were plans for a 50MW power station at Huka Falls and a 25MW dam just below Aratiatia at Ngaawapurua. I believe these never went ahead because of the mudstone there.
    
    10 1
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    August 10, 2024 9:32am
    - Quail
      
      Would like to see some interest in tidal lagoons as an energy source. NZ is ideally situated to investigate options given our very extensive coastline.
      That is assuming that the RMA and treaty claims would allow access to coastal development?
      
      8 2
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      August 10, 2024 10:07am
      - ISeeRed
        
        You’re funny.
        
        4 2
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        August 10, 2024 11:44am
      - wsk12345
        
        It’s not got beyond prototype anywhere in the world. And not from lack of effort.
        
        2 0
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        August 10, 2024 12:15pm
      - Burtland
        
        MACA will stop that
        
        https://www.nzcpr.com/maca-misinformation/
        
        1 0
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        August 10, 2024 1:13pm
      - CJames
        
        wsk
        They did build one at the Rhone river mouth in france. A lot higher tidal range than anywhere here. I think it is still going (Gaulic pride) but the experiences there have put off anyone else building one.
        Still doesn’t stop the dreamers though.
        
        4 0
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        August 10, 2024 2:02pm
      - Quail
        
        There are some successful tidal energy sources listed on the inter net — Korea , Britain etc.!
        
        1 0
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        August 10, 2024 10:18pm
  - John Loveridge
    
    Underpants will show up on TV posturing and bellyaching and making threats, as usual. Then nothing will happen. As usual.
    
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    August 10, 2024 9:44am
  - AitchW
    
    Pdm, I suspect he’d be secretly over the moon at the thought of all the lovely koha that Tainui could extract.
    
    9 0
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    August 10, 2024 10:00am
  - Yvette
    
    pdm
    Morgan has already stated that Auckland taking water from the Waikato personage ancestor is unsustainable
    
    Watch
    
    15 1
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    August 10, 2024 10:05am
- Yvette
  
  ”… under the RMA and Māori control of resources?”
  – under Labour was that not the same thing?
  
  And, Tomtoddy, in addition to your points, Ardern’s Government gave Maori enough rope that it is going to be a major grievance now in Luxon’s Coalition taking it back.
  
  Watch
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:06am
- MCōs
  
  Lake Manapouri was originally intended to be considerably raised leading to a huge public outcry and it wasnt
  Prime Minister Holyoake in 1971: “If you do not know why we do a certain thing, just rely on our judgement.”
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:18am
- NothingLeft
  
  And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
  But we’ve proved it again and again,
  That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
  You never get rid of the Dane
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:18am
  - Yvette
    
    To save time for any who, like me, had to look it up –
    
    Danegeld “Danish tax”, literally “Dane yield” or tribute, was a tax raised to pay tribute or protection money to the Viking raiders to save a land from being ravaged. It was called the geld or gafol in eleventh-century sources.
    
    In AD 991 the Vikings were given 4500kg of silver to go home, but they soon returned. Each time there was a fresh attack they were paid again. The Vikings learnt that if they kept raiding Britain they would keep getting paid. By 1012, 22 000kg of silver was given to the Vikings in Danegeld.
    
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    August 10, 2024 11:12am
    - Burtland
      
      koha – tribute money – back to the stone age.
      
      4 0
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      August 10, 2024 1:30pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Would any of the dams on the Waikato or the Manapouri power station have been built today under the RMA and Māori control of resources?
  
  Māui is a culture hero and a trickster, famous for his exploits and cleverness.
  
  Maui has not finished draining his bladder into NZ’s rivers yet and the Maori activists keep taking the piss!
  
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  August 10, 2024 11:32am
Nukuleka

USA Democratic politics is coming to a pretty pass when the only reason the front runner for the VP ticket, popular Pennsylvania Governor, Josh Shapiro, wasn’t picked was because he’s Jewish. Harris has firmly nailed her colours to the extreme left wing Hamas- hugging wing of the party. Neither she nor Tim Walz has any real foreign policy experience- except for Walz’s frequent trips to and deep love for China. If they are successful come November Iran, and its proxies – as well as Xi and Putin- will be emboldened in a way that will be disastrous globally.
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August 10, 2024 8:25am
- kowtow
  
  Walz could have gained some useful Middle East insights ……. if he hadn’t retired just as his unit was being mobilized .
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:13am
- newview
  
  Your statement reads like fact N, of course it’s just your opinion that reads like fact.
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:18am
  - Mike
    
    Welcome to blog comments.
    
    3 14
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    August 10, 2024 9:49am
  - Conservatarian
    
    No, it’s all facts. They’re dicing with sacrificing Pennsylvania because of “The Jews”, Tim AWOLz has “stolen valor”, and Hidin’ Harris *cackles inappropriately* has never even been to her own southern border let alone considered the issues relating to any other country. Though she spent her teens in Montreal, so that probably counts as her “foreign experience.”
    
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    August 10, 2024 9:52am
- p5
  
  “Wasn’t picked was because he’s Jewish”
  
  This is ridiculous conjecture. It’s not impossible, but equally there could be many normal and non-racist reasons to choose Walz.
  
  Some other possible reasons:
  
  – Walz has a higher approval rating as governor in his state than Shapiro.
  – Walz was found to be a stronger debater at countering his debate future debate opponent Vance.
  – Shapiro has a skeleton in his closet found during vetting.
  – Harris found Walz easier to work with.
  – Internal polling and focus groups showed Walz to be more popular with independents.
  
  I could go on. The accusation that Walz was picked because he is not a Jew is unfounded and lacks evidence. It would be equivalent to saying that Trump chose Vance over the black candidates on his shortlist because Trump hates black people.
  
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  August 10, 2024 11:13am
  - Nukuleka
    
    Even an avowed Democrat commentator like Van Jones concedes that Shapiro was passed over so that the Hamas- hugging left of the Democratic Party would not be outside the upcoming convention protesting against the choice of a Jew. Harris needs Pennsylvania, a swing state, in order to secure victory and Shapiro would have ensured that. Minnesota, on the other hand, is deeply blue. Shapiro was passed over because he is Jewish.
    
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    August 10, 2024 12:28pm
    - p5
      
      Trump needs Michigan to win. Trump passed over Ben Carson from Michigan for Vice President. Instead he chose Vance from Ohio, which is deeply red. Therefore Trump must hate black people…
      
      Or it is dishonest to assign racism without evidence.
      
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      August 10, 2024 1:02pm
Chuck Bird

This is another reason why I hope Trump wins.

McBLOG: Who is Tim Walz? (and why you should be worried)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zv3ohUQiF0
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August 10, 2024 8:31am
- Inandout
  
  CB, the Dems were so desperate to choose a non Jew they floundered upon Tim, a man with cupboards full of skeletons.
  
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  August 10, 2024 8:42am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Exactly. But his views while a little left of Harris are very similar.
    
    7 7
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    August 10, 2024 9:33am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Did anyone else see the US Report by James Morrow last night? He had a bit to say about Harris’s pick for VP.
    
    4 3
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    August 10, 2024 10:58am
  - AitchW
    
    The sewer which is X.com is full of people asserting a range of unacceptable behaviours in Walz’s past.
    Of course it’s also full of people asserting that the Muslim riots in the UK are organised by the UN, and that UN special forces were landed on the so called migrant boats.
    The truth is out there. Somewhere..
    
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    August 10, 2024 11:19am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  When will the World find out his Election views on economy, finance, nuclear weapons, climate change hoax, employment, EVs, overseas financial aid things that matter.
  Rainbow shit, transistors, abortion, are not important in my mind.
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:33am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Doesnt matter what he thinks or she thinks.
    The Dems have turned the presidency into a meaningless parody.
    
    6 0
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    August 10, 2024 12:01pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  He is left of Harris and Sanders, a worry for the whole world
  
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  August 10, 2024 11:18am
Dudley Quaffquaff

So if we accept that there are more than two genders – does that increase, or decrease, the population eligible to use women’s spaces and participate in women’s sport?

Seems to me that it has to be the latter. Once it’s no longer the case that “woman” means “anybody who isn’t a man” then the criteria for “woman” become narrower and more exclusive. The number of genders, therefore the number of people, who don’t have a place in women’s spaces increases from one to several. Not the number of genders that do.

Is this what they are aiming for, those that go into conniptions at the assertion that “there are only two genders”?
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August 10, 2024 8:33am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Good thought. Should reduce the queues to the women’s loo.
  
  10 3
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  August 10, 2024 8:52am
- Dougal10
  
  Why do they want to become a woman , is it a mother idol thing. Why aren’t they just trying to redefine what a man is , a much easier crusade given that most of them still have man bits.
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:03am
  - ISeeRed
    
    It’s a good question. If women are still disadvantaged, marginalised, oppressed etc. why would anyone want to become one? Why wouldn’t women start identifying as men and gain all that male privilege? Make it make sense.
    
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    August 10, 2024 9:51am
    - PurplePen
      
      Reminds me of Rex Harrison singing “Why can’t a woman, be like a man” from My Fair Lady.
      
      5 2
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      August 10, 2024 10:47am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Lola, by the Kinks. 1970
        
        Well, I’m not the world’s most masculine man
        But I know what I am and I’m glad I’m a man
        And so is Lola
        Lo-Lo-Lo-Lo-Lola.
        
        https://genius.com/The-kinks-lola-lyrics
        
        10 0
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        August 10, 2024 11:35am
  - Jake Dee
    
    It is a fascinating and quite bizarre piece of human psychology and there isn’t a one size fits all explanation, but basically the male to female transexuals fall into two categories.
    The homosexual type and the heterosexual autogynephilic type.
    The homosexual type has a feminine demeanor and adopt a female persona to attract masculine men, some of whom would be heterosexuals. The YouTube influencer Blair White
    https://www.youtube.com/@BlaireWhiteX
    the late Georgina Beyer and the Thai ladyboys would be examples of this type.
    The autogynephilic type is much stranger. These are heterosexual males who have a sexual fetish fixated upon am image of themselves as a woman. Admiral Rachel Levine would be of this type.
    The psychology of autogynephillia is a hell of a rabbit hole but worth going down to get an understanding of where the modern world is at right now.
    
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    August 10, 2024 7:31pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I think doubt must be cast upon the sex of many of us so-called women.
  
  I’ve just read this piece by eminent scientists
  about how to identify men and women.
  
  What does science tell us about boxing’s gender row?
  https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crlr8gp813ko
  
  It seems I’ve been mistaken all these years thinking that the presence of an XY sex chromosome in your genetic make-up made you male…
  
  He says that XY chromosomes in females are very rare – in Denmark it’s about one in 15,000.
  But he believes that when adding these many genetic conditions together, about one in 300 people are affected.
  
  Perhaps there is a pair of undescended testicles lurking behind my uterus.
  
  However, I won’t be entering the men’s open swimming champs any time soon.
  (I’ve noticed it’s a one-way traffic system. and “females” don’t seem to head for male competitions).
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:06am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    I don’t believe that the sporting community has yet to adequately address the issue of DSD athletes competing in sport where competitors are separated by Biological Sex.
    
    The whole issue has become very politicised by LBGTQI activists as well, some of whom have seen this issue as a pathway to having Trans Athletes competing as women.
    
    This has muddied the waters in the debate as standing up for biology is now being painted as some sort of anti trans bigotry.
    
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    August 10, 2024 9:31am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    From that I read about infertile men. My partner’s father had a non-existent sperm count which is why my partner, her brother, and sister are all adopted.
    But there is no way her dad was effeminate, even in his later years
    
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    August 10, 2024 9:53am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Not a lot of women playing in men’s sports, or having a leak in men’s toilets.
  Well I don’t know of any. This is all a mental condition and cheating.
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:37am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The boxing row at the Olympics is about “women” who may not in fact be biological women. These two boxers are not mentally ill.
    
    The best selling novel “Middlesex” is about one such woman.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middlesex_%28novel%29?wprov=sfla1
    
    While fiction, the author based the story on extensive research into several case studies.
    
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    August 10, 2024 10:20am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      In recent years there has been much speculation that the British Archaeologist Katharine Woolley was a male suffering from CAIS (Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome).
      https://pennds.org/nelc133/exhibits/show/kwoolley/kwoolley
      
      This aspect is hinted at in a recent detective novel “Death in a Desert Land” which blends truth and fiction into a pretty good read.
      
      https://www.crimetime.co.uk/death-in-a-desert-land-andrewilsontalks-to-crime-time/
      
      5 2
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      August 10, 2024 12:49pm
  - Its only I
    
    There could be one advantage to this shit Steve.
    Male rates or female rates on your car insurance, they cant say no.
    
    6 3
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    August 10, 2024 10:36am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I have no idea what you mean about insurance rates.//
      
      1 1
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      August 10, 2024 3:08pm
- wsk12345
  
  Except the toilets are now treated as “men’s” and “all others”
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:39am
  - PurplePen
    
    Or it could be “womb”, “no womb”. Definitive.
    
    5 3
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    August 10, 2024 10:49am
    - Mike
      
      “Excuse me, I need to see your womb before you can use this toilet”
      
      4 0
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      August 10, 2024 2:00pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Have a look – bang!
        I know it was a joke Mike, but if I was asked that I would ask them if they wanted to see concrete close up.
        
        4 0
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        August 10, 2024 3:09pm
DimChappie

The cull of bad service contracts at Oranga Tamariki will reveal a mess of corruption, says Brian Tamaki, who works with many OT client families: https://www.briantamaki.com/single-post/time-to-cull-the-cash-cow-of-corruption

“The Kaupapa Māori rhetoric has been a massive rort in funding circles.
“From 2018 OT have gone from funding $54.5m to Iwi/Māori providers, to $158.6m in 2023. Plus there are many add-ons. There’s even more money across other government departments. Yet, with all the additional funding Māori continue to be massively over-represented in every negative statistic.
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August 10, 2024 8:53am
- John Loveridge
  
  I have no doubt that, in this case, Tamaki is bang on the money. And you will notice that, yet again, it is largely Maoris ripping off the system at the expense of their own people.
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:48am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    And the expense of the Net Taxpayer.
    All since 1975.
    
    16 3
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    August 10, 2024 10:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I like Brian Tamaki. A spade is a spade.
  “Anyone who dares to stand up to the corruption is accused of not being ‘Māori enough’. Well, good luck trying that one with me.”
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:10am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It is a pity the Children’s Commissioner didn’t check with OT before publicly slamming Karen Chhour.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350373819/disappointed-childrens-commissioner-slams-oranga-tamariki-provider-cuts
  
  OT’s Deputy Chief has clearly stated that some of their providers have underspent the funds allocated for the care and protection of children.
  
  Oranga Tamariki deputy chief executive Darrin Haimona said the cuts were due to identified underspends where the funds weren’t used for the purpose they were contracted.
  
  The Children’s commissioner should start investigating some of those providers that have failed to honour their contracts.
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:21am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    One having a moan about cuts is Dr Claire Achmad. She does not mention the stacked and unused bank accounts or where the money is being spent on things it was not destined for. Spent on other things is just more corruption.
    
    15 4
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    August 10, 2024 10:44am
    - artemisia
      
      $22 mill underspend returned so far, and said to be more to come. That’s a lot of interest from term deposits spent on who knows what.
      
      11 1
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      August 10, 2024 11:36am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    It’s all because they could get away with simply banking the money under Labour, because no one ever checked, that’s labour, hand money out, job done
    
    15 1
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    August 10, 2024 11:21am
  - artemisia
    
    For a ‘start’ Family Start in Nelson recently reported they were paying 17 FTEs, compared to the 12.75 FTEs funded. That’s a lot of taxpayer money not used for the contracted purpose.
    
    Just one example that comes nowhere near passing the sniff test.
    
    10 1
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    August 10, 2024 11:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Oranga Tamariki never saw this coming when the coalition Government said there would be cuts to the Public Sector?
    Thay must be quite thick to think the job for life was not going to be the job for life.
    
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    August 10, 2024 3:19pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I see that the children’s commissioner is melting down about the cancellation of the contracts. I don’t know what these “commissioners” achieve. They are like an annoying buzzing noise.
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:22am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Children’s Kommissar.
    
    14 3
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    August 10, 2024 10:26am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    A buzzing noise that gets paid very well.
    
    8 4
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    August 10, 2024 10:45am
  - GJM
    
    Wasn’t the Children’s commissar a bribe to get Peter Dunne on side with the government of the day? As soon as he was gone and it was no longer needed, it should have been canned.
    It goes to show, there is nothing so permanent as a temporary bureaucracy.
    
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    August 11, 2024 11:16am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Wow.. That post of Brian Tamaki’s contains a lot of interesting information:
  
  Chappie Te Kani – Current CEO of Oranga Tamariki since 2021. Prior he worked in PM Jacinda’s office as Head of System Assurance and Continuous Improvement – COVID Group.
  
  I can’t see our MSM running it tho’.
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:38am
  - AitchW
    
    What sort of adult who expects to be taken seriously calls himself Chappie?
    
    7 1
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    August 10, 2024 11:22am
    - pdm
      
      mrspdm had a relative `nicknamed’ Chappie.
      
      A top man who was Headmaster of a very well regarded High School when he retired.
      
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      August 10, 2024 1:52pm
  - Damocles11
    
    He’s a happy Chappie. But whenever I see him interviewed he seems woefully out of his depth.
    
    8 1
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    August 10, 2024 11:37am
- Burtland
  
  seems its gone on for over 20years in Hauora as well
  
  “Since 2000, most Māori health services for Māori enrolled on the Māori electoral roll in both rural and urban regions have been provided by seventy-seven Māori Health providers. They have been funded by the state but completely managed by iwi throughout New Zealand during this time. They were created over twenty years ago to provide a “by Māori, for Māori” health service as a solution for the Māori health problems – the identical reason as for this current bill.
  
  “While some of the hauora have provided an excellent range of public health measures and personal health services, others have not been so successful. Overall, the network of hauora has not had the breakthrough in improving Māori health statistics that had been hoped would occur with a “by Māori, for Māori” service provider.
  
  The reasons for this are debated, with Māori claiming inadequate funding as the cause, and the funding agency stating failure to reach agreed health targets, poor management, and incorrect spending priorities are to blame.
  
  The Waitangi Tribunal, when starting their investigation into Māori health, refused to publish their findings into why this health service delivery system failed, stating it was “sensitive” (Waitangi Report 2575). This is irrational as the information is crucial to assisting with the success of this new Act.
  
  https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/dr-lawrie-knight-fact-checking-m%C4%81ori-health-claims-that-led-to-the-pae-ora-healthy-futures-bill
  
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  August 10, 2024 4:29pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Suzie Fergusson & guest are wittering on Radio NZ about mis/disinformation driving bad UK middle aged, lower class white men to riot, and how they must be punished.

Not a word about whether such men have a point. The upper and middle classes benefit from internationalism – travel, work opportunities, cuisine, wealth; while the working classes see their wage & work opportunities diminish, house & rent prices rise, their kids attend schools full of kids whose first language isn’t English (an English friend of mine’s son went to Primary in Bethnal Green in London: every other kid in his class was Bangladeshi).

When the costs and benefits of divisive policies are not shared equally, it shouldn’t be surprising that some take umbrage.
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August 10, 2024 9:04am
- kowtow
  
  The UK Establishment is actively spying on people there and the police “service” have suddenly sprung into action and turned into a “force” ,so slow normally in most circumstances , doing dawn raids , smashing down doors , to the applause of the media , against people involved in the rioting but included are people who have made social media comments , deemed to be contrary to Establishment agenda.
  
  “Where England goes ………”
  
  ps Let me make it very clear . I’m all for democracy , law and order and the rule of law .
  
  But there’s something very sinister going on and the double standards are there for any thinking reasonable person to see .
  
  18 2
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  August 10, 2024 9:29am
- Colville
  
  The immigrants get priority for the subsidised council houses and fill up the beds in hospital with pre existing conditions. They don’t work so don’t contribute to the tax system. Why wouldn’t the working poor object to think?
  
  18 1
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  August 10, 2024 9:36am
- ISeeRed
  
  The “far right” are right so far.
  
  17 2
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  August 10, 2024 9:52am
- Damocles11
  
  I had to turn RNZ off because they were always saying “call Suzy Fergusson a ho”, which I thought was just pathetic abuse.
  
  20 1
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  August 10, 2024 10:13am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Yes, chuckling at that expression is one of my guilty pleasures.
    
    12 2
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    August 10, 2024 10:27am
  - PurplePen
    
    I always thought it was “Corr! Suzie Fergusson a hoe”.
    
    8 1
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    August 10, 2024 10:53am
  - Aquarius
    
    The bizarre thing is
    Her deficiencies in the English language were always totally apparent
    And I assume she thinks burbling in Manglish might in some way cover that up
    After probably 30 years of listening, I’ve given RNZ away with the sole exception of Jim Mora on Sunday morning
    But I fear that’s getting close as well now
    
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    August 10, 2024 2:45pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Whoops! Better get the home brew going, Maggy W!

http://www.1news.co.nz/2024/08/09/gisborne-councillors-mistakenly-vote-for-stricter-alcohol-rules/
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August 10, 2024 9:10am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  As long as they keep their hands off the few remaining cafes and greasy spoons in Gizzy, I’m not bothered.
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:59am
kowtow

The msm coverage of the coup in Bangladesh is very sketchy indeed ( compared to for example the unrest in the UK where no one has been killed in what is relatively minor rioting) .

Yet hundreds have died in what has been reported in Indian news where Bangladeshi “far right” elements have been involved in the unrest . Now apparently Hindu minorities are being targetted in their homes , schools, temples and businesses and quite a few brutally murdered .

This is a Commonwealth country , a country we engage in sporting contacts with and there’s essentially very little outrage ,commentary or coverage .

Where’s the “kindness’ , the solidarity , the concern.
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August 10, 2024 9:21am
Bridgenag

Friday Funnies: Make America Burn Again.
Be careful what you wish for…

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/friday-funnies-make-america-burn?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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August 10, 2024 9:37am
artemisia

So TPM will no longer be engaging with the Herald because they didn’t like an advertisement. Not sure what that means. Apart from toys out of cots. Though apparently TPM will reconsider if there is an apology across all NZME platforms and reviews its advertising processes.

Fortunately NZME said they are “reviewing our processes and policies around advocacy advertising”. I am sure TPM is frantically raising funds to get their own expensive advocacy ads accepted in case the policies change. Am I right or am I right.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/te-pati-maori-will-no-longer-engage-with-nz-herald-after-hobsons-pledge-ad/OS77E5XR5NARPCX4BGSTAR2LCA/
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August 10, 2024 9:47am
- John Loveridge
  
  I know the two words I’d offer Te Party if I was NZME, and they wouldn’t be “I’m sorry”.
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:53am
  - Damocles11
    
    What’s the bet they will be. 🤣
    
    7 1
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    August 10, 2024 11:39am
- AitchW
  
  That mob (TPM) never saw a racist grandstand they wouldn’t fill!
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:02am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Given their financial state, surely a newspaper owner would accept advertising for any product, service, or advocacy which is legal? The Maori Party is perfectly free to run paid advertisements advocating that the Peoples Republic of Aotearoa should be an ethnically separated communist state. I would support their right to do so. 🙂
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:08am
- Damocles11
  
  Folding to left / woke / separatist pressure, NZME tripping over themselves not to do anything to upset the Leftist facehugger that is clamping itself over free speech and free thought in this country. Hobsons Choice are ‘racist’ because they want us all to have equal rights are they.
  If they are going to ban Hobsons Choice from advertising with them then they should treat the CTU the same.
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:17am
- kowtow
  
  There’s an awful lot of Race toy cot throwing going on at the moment .
  Not to mention extreme rhetoric , which very oddly the likes of the Herald have been largely silent on . D N Parker’s “ethnocide” speech in the House being a case in point .
  No calls for dialling down the temp on that ! Just ignored .
  Very little on the walk out by northern maoris from the iwi Liaison thing on Luxon . On that why the hell is that body in existence when there’s specific race seats in parliament and local councils.
  
  As to the Herald maybe they could rethink all their use of Manglish and Maori place names , seeing as how they’ve been called out ……….
  
  Time to resume normal service.
  
  17 2
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  August 10, 2024 10:20am
- PurplePen
  
  No they won’t. They won’t be placing their own ad. That would mean spending on something that has no direct benefit to the party members .. house, car, jewellery etc. When have you seen TPM fork out for anything or for that matter propose anything useful to their followers.
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:57am
  - artemisia
    
    I know!
    
    6 1
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    August 10, 2024 11:25am
- JackRabbit
  
  So if we can convince every news outlet to run ads for Hobson’s Pledge, they will be voiceless.
  
  6 1
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  August 10, 2024 11:38am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Funny thing is TPM say beaches are not owned by anyone, so why are they so worried that an advert says keep the beaches in public hands then?
  
  6 1
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  August 10, 2024 11:52am
- All_on_Red
  
  NZME does a lot of Advertorial.
  So does Stuff. You have to question their judgement sometimes.
  The Du Val property group has just gone bust (what a surprise//)
  This article was posted 2 August
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350364976/du-val-placed-interim-receivership-request-financial-markets-authority
  Yet on the 29 July they posted this advertorial talking about Du Val in glowing terms
  You have to feel a little sick reading that in light of whats happened.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/home-property/350356300/low-cost-high-quality-homes-auckland-developer-mission-help-housing-squeeze
  Now you might say they didn’t know but earlier this year on 10 March they posted this
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300827109/du-val-issued-with-formal-warning-over-misleading-statements
  
  Pretty crap judgement really and all for a few dollars income
  No wonder no one trusts the Media anymore
  
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  August 10, 2024 12:21pm
- rouppe
  
  If the Mazi Party don’t want to engage with NZ Herald, I can’t see the downside…
  
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  August 10, 2024 12:31pm
Benedict Yu

I agree to an extent. There are quiet suburban streets that are targeted as race tracks. However the goodwill towards speed bumps where they are justified is being undermined by their installation where they are not justified. I am all for them being deployed for safety. Not as an anti car device.

There is also the associated imposition of speed limits that are not credible. The 30 kmh speed limit in Christchurch is not credible because it is ignored by most drivers. If it was 40 kmh it would be credible.
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August 10, 2024 10:02am
- Jethrod
  
  Wheturangi Rd in Greenlane has some of the meanest speed bumps in existence.
  9 bumps in in less than a 1 kilometer .
  They must give the residents nightmares with the constant bumping.
  
  9 1
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  August 10, 2024 10:29am
  - Grumpy Silver Top
    
    They have been there for years! Were installed, I believe, to stop motorists using Wheturangi Road as a shortcut between Greenlane and Campbell Road.
    
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    August 10, 2024 11:02am
    - lifesgood
      
      Why shouldn’t motorists use a short cut? More anti car nonsense.
      
      2 0
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      August 10, 2024 1:14pm
  - AitchW
    
    Years ago, in the early 90s I spent a term at Massey in Palmerston North. There was a speed bump somewhere on the campus that a group of students objected to. They would pour diesel on it under the cover of darkness which softened the tar seal and caused it to flatten out. Of course the authorities would rebuild it immediately.
    Admittedly it was a smallish hump of tar seal, but one wonders whether such treatment might not reduce the effect of the raised crossings plaguing our towns and cities…
    
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    August 10, 2024 11:29am
  - peterwn
    
    A secondary school property manager installed some really mean speed bumps. He placed them diagonally so you got four bumps when crossing it.
    
    4 1
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    August 10, 2024 11:35am
  - All_on_Red
    
    They put one outside St Leos Primary in Devonport on an existing Pedestrian Crossing which has Crossing Guards before and after school.
    Cost $300,000+
    The thing is the school has three entrances to it and the school has, wait for it, only 46 pupils…
    
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    August 10, 2024 12:09pm
surfing

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2423294/google-is-killing-one-of-chromes-biggest-ad-blockers.html

Google are going to neuter chrome adblocker extensions.

So after 15 years, sayonara chrome … just checked firefox, it’s virtually identical to chrome anyway.
9 1
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August 10, 2024 10:04am
- PurplePen
  
  Yep. Nothing wrong with Firefox. Used it for years.
  
  9 1
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  August 10, 2024 10:59am
  - JackRabbit
    
    From its inception, Chrome was putting hooks and tentacles into operating systems. Chrome would frequently break systems.
    
    It has improved, but it has just got better at hiding what it does.
    
    5 1
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    August 10, 2024 11:42am
- greybeard
  
  I’ve found that Firefox is no longer supported by some websites, and have had to override it with Chrome. ( Ubuntu 22.04 OS )
  
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  August 10, 2024 11:00am
- Ghost
  
  There are other Chromium browsers you can use that will continue to block ads with their built in
  
  https://alvarotrigo.com/blog/best-chromium-browsers/
  
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  August 10, 2024 11:07am
  - Ghost
    
    This is an interesting read
    
    Last month, Mozilla made a quiet change in Firefox that caused some diehard users to revolt.
    
    Deep in the browser’s privacy settings, Firefox introduced an experimental “privacy-preserving ad measurement” toggle, enabling it by default without explanation or disclosure. It’s a system that Mozilla designed in partnership with Meta, allowing advertisers to measure the success of their campaigns without collecting individual user data.
    
    Article
    
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    August 10, 2024 11:11am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Despite what you are implying, Firefox was much later to do that than Edge and Chrome.
      
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      August 10, 2024 11:43am
- GJM
  
  And 8f you are using an android phone or tablet, use the Brave browser. Uses Chrome extensions including adblockers and bypass paywalls.
  
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  August 11, 2024 11:53am
Matt Long

The Children’s Commissioner is upset that troughers at Oranga Tamariki are having to justify their rorts. Can anyone remind what exactly this office achieves?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350373819/disappointed-childrens-commissioner-slams-oranga-tamariki-provider-cuts
Brian Tamaki has a more informed view.
https://x.com/BrianTamakiNZ/status/1821768075580207474
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August 10, 2024 10:13am
- newview
  
  Agree ML but even worse what does the the minister for child poverty do. Surely if anything it should be the minister for the parents of poor children. They are the ones responsible and in the end the ones that will change the plight of the children. Surely you have to help them first. The whole thing is meaningless BS.
  
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  August 10, 2024 10:32am
Maggie Pie

It’s just sooo sad to read about all the attacks on those little Asian kids lately.

Auckland has become like a film-set from ‘Planet-of-the-Apes’
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August 10, 2024 10:16am
- JackRabbit
  
  Doesn’t help when you have tribal humans that behave like apes in Parliament, attacking law and order, and threatening war to the humans that have not yet identified as apes.
  
  “I’m 1/128th ~~Ape~~ Maori and I want to join ~~Caesar’s~~ Waititi’s tribe.”
  
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  August 10, 2024 11:55am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPgW1U0Eidw
Elon Musk BREAKS Internet AGAIN With Kamala Ad!
Ad about Kamala Harris went viral and it triggering everyone! [I guess Elon Musk, and the guy who made the ads won’t be flavor of the month at the DNC.]
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August 10, 2024 10:26am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yugDhfF3ujY
Karen Chhour on Oranga Tamariki Provider Changes.
Leah Panapa talks to the Minister for Children Karen Chhour about Oranga Tamariki provider changes. [The usual suspects are moaning about ‘raycisim’, ‘genocide’, ‘selfishness’ ,homophobia’, islamophobia’, ‘colonization’ etc. Pick your own buzzwords.]
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August 10, 2024 10:26am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  “I have a duty to the young people in the care of O.T…
  
  I don’t have a duty to keep providers doors open”
  – Karen Chhour.
  
  Perhaps the Children’s Commissioner needs to consider who she is REALLY concerned about.
  
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  August 10, 2024 11:43am
  - kowtow
    
    And our media too .They need to come out far more strongly in support of this brave woman standing up for the rights of our most vulnerable.
    
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    August 10, 2024 12:38pm
Steve Todd

“Cenk DEBATES Ex-Militant: Can Israel Make Peace With Hamas?”

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW6rbTwvvdA.

This is a revealing, even eye-opening, 63 minute debate that I think is well worth your time watching.

The splurge says: “Can Israel Make Peace with Hamas?” Open to Debate’s latest episode features Cenk Uygur, Founder and Host of the Young Turks Network vs. Mosab Hassan Yousef, Son of Hamas Co-Founder, author, “From Hamas to America.” https://opentodebate.org/ Uygur argues “YES” Yousef argues “NO”.
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August 10, 2024 10:35am
All_on_Red

“111? Id like to report a murder”

Here is Douglas Murray completely destroying the Joo Hating Sexist Pig Cenk Uygur.
Poor Cenk. He gets taken apart.
https://x.com/RitaPanahi/status/1738155291747999783?

Heres Douglas’s comment to Cenk after the murder
“Oh Cenk. I gave you so many facts. The problem was you didn’t know any of them. And because you’ve never travelled anywhere and don’t know anything it came as a shock to you. But do go out. There’s a whole world beyond your bedroom”
LOL
Never forget who Uygur is. A disgraceful human being.
‘Uygur’s sexist and racist commentary has included a segment from his Young Turks show in 2013 in which he ranked women on a scale of 1-10 on “how likely men would be to let them perform oral sex on them,” per the L.A. Times. That same year, Uygur called a model “obviously anorexic” on the show and said she looked “like she’d just come out of a [concentration] camp.” In 2015, Uygur hosted ex-Ku Klux Klan leader and neo-Nazi David Duke on the Young Turks in an anti-Semitic segment about “how Jews control everything.” Video also has surfaced of Uygur using the n-word repeatedly on TYT in 2007.’
https://variety.com/2019/digital/news/bernie-sanders-cenk-uygur-retracts-endorsement-backlash-1203436658/
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August 10, 2024 10:50am
- Inandout
  
  AoR, Douglas left Cenk speechless which is unusual for that normally raging Arab. Facts do matter.
  
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  August 10, 2024 12:25pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    A low blow, Inny. Turks are not Arabs.
    
    As you say, facts do matter.
    
    2 3
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    August 10, 2024 1:50pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    IandO
    Yeah, real funny to watch. Pretty brutal takedown.
    You have to wonder at the sort of person who takes such a creep seriously.
    
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    August 10, 2024 2:04pm
AitchW

Please, please, please can the uptick and downtick buttons be larger and separated? Twice today I’ve inadvertently hit the wrong button!
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August 10, 2024 11:37am
- ISeeRed
  
  We should be able to tap a second time to undo/remove an accidental tick too. Fat chance. This blog has used the same limited template for at least a decade.
  
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  August 10, 2024 1:40pm
  - AitchW
    
    Those of us with fat fingers, limited dexterity and using an iPad are doomed!
    
    3 2
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    August 10, 2024 3:46pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  I have accidentally hit the downtick button a few times and had to apologize. For some reason I have never hit the uptick button by accident. Wonder why?
  
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  August 10, 2024 7:26pm
Steve Todd

Here’s the latest episode of The Rest Is Politics US, with Katty Kay and Anthony Scaramucci: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piGFpCTqq5A&t=121s. [57 minutes]

Has Kamala Harris chosen the right person as her running mate? Why has Donald Trump stayed quiet in response? How much do celebrity endorsements impact elections? And much more.

Apart from the fact that ‘The Mooch’ is so funny, I love these guys because, dotted throughout their shows, is interesting information you would never pick up anywhere else — they are both very well connected.

In particular, I refer you to 31 minutes, where Scaramucci explains why Trump has not been campaigning this week — at least click on that — and to 33:20, where Katty brings to our attention a Wall Street Journal editorial that is devastating for Trump.

Enjoy.
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August 10, 2024 12:35pm
- ISeeRed
  
  I’m sure WSJ readers were Trump supporters until that editorial.
  
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  August 10, 2024 1:42pm
- Mike
  
  The Mooch was, indeed, the funniest of Trump’s neuro-divergent hires.
  
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  August 10, 2024 1:42pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Trump did one yesterday in Montana
  But give the guy a break
  He was in Arizona for a Town Hall on June 6, a rally in Nevada on June 9, a speaking event in Michigan on June 15, a rally in Wisconsin on June 18, a rally in Pennsylvania on June 22 and July 13, when he was the victim of an assassination attempt, in Wisconsin again on July 18, Michigan again on July 20, North Carolina on July 24, Nevada again on July 30 and Pennsylvania a third time on July 31.
  Has Kamala held a Press Conference yet? What exactly are her achievements- apart from chaos at the Border with all the associated increase in crime etc.
  I see Katty and Moochie were wrong about Shapiro being picked as VP too.
  Oh well. They are lightweight commentators.
  Any gossip from them about Megan Markle? Katty seems to like her.
  I hear the Mooch gets the same lifts for his shoes from the same shop as Bob De Niro.
  
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  August 10, 2024 2:02pm
- mawm
  
  Trump’s response to Harris’ VP pick was a simple text that read “Thank you”.
  
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  August 10, 2024 3:27pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Trump just feeding them more rope to hang themselves with.
  Media polls are showing Harris and her coward way in front of Trump and Vance. Amazing that the same thing happened pre 2016, but hello Hillary couldn’t even win an Election that she rigged LOL!!
  Oh Trump not campaigning, really? I mast watch more CNN for good news.
  Oh, Kamala has yet to do a press conference since naming the big time home guard coward – or did I get that wrong Steve?
  
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  August 10, 2024 3:40pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    There’s plenty of time for press conferences, Steve. Right now, she’s doing a whirlwind trip around the battleground states, introducing herself and her inspired VP choice to the voters who will matter come November 5.
    
    Then she has the Convention, then she can do press conferences, which I have no doubt she will.
    
    It’s all good, Stevie-boy.
    
    (I can’t wait for the debates!)
    
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    August 10, 2024 5:25pm
MCōs

If Dame Lisa Carrington wins today and is mad enough to carry on and win two more golds at the next Olympics she’ll be second only behind Michael Phelps
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August 10, 2024 1:08pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  I think she will retire and have some children which she deseves.
  
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  August 10, 2024 1:54pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    She is 35, that’s a good choice for her.
    Imagine a whole lot of Lisa Carringtons running around at future Olympics! Yes please.
    
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    August 10, 2024 3:45pm
    - wsk12345
      
      She can do both. Lots of women do – was it two of the rowers that came back after producing?
      
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      August 10, 2024 5:13pm
MCōs

A couple of days ago in the men’s shot put Tom Walsh sustained an injury during the competition and could barely walk away from the circle
Amazingly he fronted up for his last throw, but there were no miracles and his leg couldn’t hold up.
He said later he didn’t want to be left wondering if he might have been capable of pulling off the impossible
I worked with a guy who was a very talented school boy footballer in England
He was offered a trial with a big club, but his Dad said, No
An opportunity like that never came his way again and he stewed over that ever after.
It wasn’t that he was tested and found wanting, he could have lived with that.
He wasn’t even tested
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August 10, 2024 3:33pm
Maggie Pie

Heading back from NW earlier and went to fill up.
Worked it out in my brain that we’re actually paying in excess of 75c in the dollar tax!
We pay 39c in the dollar top tax rate on what we earn, then at least another 37c in what we spend by way of gst & RU charges each time we top up the cars.
No wonder people prefer to stay home doing sfa on the bene.

Just saying.
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August 10, 2024 3:34pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They still pay the same for Die sel, they just don’t pay RU charges.
  Just dump the POS in an unknown gully and get another POS.
  
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  August 10, 2024 3:49pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Who is “they” and what is a POS?
    
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    August 10, 2024 3:57pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  You don’t pay RUC unless your car runs on diesel.
  
  Also your numbers are way out. Excise is 70 cents per litre. The ETS is about 20 cents. Then there is the fuel monitoring levy and the ACC levy. Then GST on top of that. So what might be loosely called a “tax” is about $1.40 per litre.
  
  The government has already signalled two excise increases to pay for new The ETS levy will increase relentlessly as the carbon price rises.
  
  You will be thrilled that the $1.4 billion cost of Motu Move will come from the petrol excise.🤔😀 Google it or search for my post of about a week ago. 🤡
  
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  August 10, 2024 3:56pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Perrol tax IS a ‘road-use chrge’ by any other name
    
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    August 10, 2024 4:47pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Well why is so much of it going to motu move? Not a road. 😀
      
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      August 10, 2024 8:41pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump’s Rally is a Ghost town.

https://www.facebook.com/theunitedspot/videos/470895772495403
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August 10, 2024 4:17pm
- Steve Todd
  
  I don’t know what that was all about, Stevie-boy, but this one’s for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zg-2zcKTVE [8 minutes].
  
  Check out the crowd size between Glendale AZ and Bozeman MT, from 2 minutes.
  
  Then, the classic: the Titanic song, at 4 minutes.
  
  Oh, dear. So sad.
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:02pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Here’s a little bit more on crowd sizes (and more), Stevie-boy.
  
  See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF7VJgvMNO8 [10 minutes].
  
  Jesse Dollemore talks about Donald Trump’s WORST SHOWING YET related to his ability to lead the country in a press conference at Mar-a-Lago yesterday, where he defended racist insurrectionists in the same breath that he compared his crowd sizes to that of the historic March on Washington in 1963 when Martin Luther King Jr. delivered his famous ‘I Have a Dream’ speech.
  
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  August 10, 2024 9:32pm
Steve Todd

Okay, this is a bit of overkill from me today, but this video really is crucial viewing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0P8ySKpDmc.

It’s 63 minutes from Jessica Denson, who took on Trump, and won.* I know only a handful of you will watch it, but I think it is important you have easy access to alternative points of view like this.

* Project Democracy sued the 2016 Trump campaign on behalf of Jessica Denson, a former Trump campaign staffer, in an attempt to invalidate the non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) that she and other staffers were made to sign. Denson got her own NDA overturned in 2021, and two years later, a judge ruled that her victory extends to all who signed the NDA. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_Democracy, under the heading “Accountability of candidates and elected officials”.)

At 10:30 she shows the 20,000-strong crowd in Glendale, Arizona, at the Harris/Walz rally taking place while she was recording this vlog.

At 15:20 she references Trump’s mental collapse; see from 20 minutes, onwards, about the “helicopter crash”, particularly at 22:14 onwards. Oh, dear. He has lost it.

At 28:30 she compares the military records of the 24-year veteran Walz (9 medals), to Vance (4 years, much of it in an air-conditioned office on a military base in Iraq; 2 medals). See, particularly, from 30 minutes, in this regard, and the reason for Walz’ trips to China (particularly the Bannon reference at 32 minutes).

See, also from 39 minutes, Vance and his people ignoring the Secret Service agent in Wisconsin.

The whole thing is a 63-minute evisceration of the ghastly Trump/Vance combo. Posted in the interests of balance. Enjoy.
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August 10, 2024 5:00pm
- wsk12345
  
  Wow 9 medals and his only overseas service was in Italy?!
  
  Do they get one for every few years of employment? Just for showing up?
  
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  August 10, 2024 5:17pm
  - Mike
    
    The Yanks are very generous with their medals.
    
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    August 10, 2024 5:50pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    They get them for crossing the road.
    
    Even get them when under training.
    
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    August 10, 2024 6:37pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The picture standing up against the wall – “Off the Hook”
  Yep she sure is.
  My head hurts and I did not watch all.
  Steve Otto – please don’t watch anymore – please.
  
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  August 10, 2024 5:52pm
Chuck Bird

Great speech by Trump in Montana.
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August 10, 2024 5:15pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Oh, yeah? You think so, Chuck?
  
  Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX7KdiX9AD8. [10 minutes]
  
  Sad.
  
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  August 10, 2024 8:22pm
kevn

Steve… yep.
https://x.com/ricwe123/status/1820701114670485920
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August 10, 2024 5:19pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stolen Valor. The United Spot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svTIJW3k1W0
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August 10, 2024 5:43pm
AitchW

How bout them ABs? Maybe Fozzie wasn’t so bad after all….
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August 10, 2024 9:24pm
Tauhei Notts

You gentlemen who will have a shave tomorrow morning.
Think, for a moment, how much skin you would lose if your razor was a sharp as Scott Robertson.
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August 10, 2024 9:25pm

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