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August 6, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 06 August 2024

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General Debate

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Matt Long

In the early 2000s a lawyer got the British courts to force the Labour government to give benefits to illegal immigrants paving the way for a massive influx of illegals.
That lawyer was Keir Starmer.
Are you the right kind of rioter?
https://x.com/Cartoonsbyjosh/status/1820434103407173640
https://x.com/BenGilroyIRL/status/1819810281058337052
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August 6, 2024 8:06am
- Matt Long
  
  To balance the X post on Starmer’s 2003 case, illegals don’t get full benefits according to this article.
  https://fullfact.org/online/keir-starmer-court-illegal-immigrants/
  
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  August 6, 2024 8:14am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Why should illegal immigrants get ANY kind of benefits? Why encourage antisocial behaviour?
    
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    August 6, 2024 8:18am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      The clue is in the word “illegal”.
      
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      August 6, 2024 12:59pm
- Matt Long
  
  A reporter on the FAR RIGHT protesters is interrupted by a group of armed mostly peaceful immigrants hunting down aniti immigration protesters.
  https://x.com/OzraeliAvi/status/1820427726328942645
  Sky news cuts feed as peaceful immigrants come to discuss world affairs. https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1820500865385701708
  
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  August 6, 2024 8:18am
  - Rich Prick
    
    If immigration enriches the UK as the left claim, why didn’t these thugs enrich where they came from?
    
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    August 6, 2024 9:37am
    - sirknz
      
      Colonialism and climate change probably.
      
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      August 6, 2024 9:38am
      - Rich Prick
        
        And mis-gendering, no doubt.
        
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        August 6, 2024 9:50am
    - muzled
      
      A nice explanation on why immigration isn’t going to save the world
      
      https://twitter.com/i/status/1820448279168954517
      
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      August 6, 2024 9:50am
    - kowtow
      
      Bangladesh currently in turmoil .
      Pakistan a failed state that sponsors terror and helped Iran develop nuclear weapons .
      
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      August 6, 2024 10:25am
  - Beach Haven expat
    
    Shamefully in their reporting the following morning they only covered Plymouth and Belfast (guess what side they were) and ignored this footage from Birmingham and also them slashing the tyres of a Sky News van.
    That’s not to excuse the tw*ts in Plymouth or Belfast but it is this type of reporting that just needs the narrative of two-tier policing and two-tier coverage.
    
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    August 6, 2024 11:37pm
- kowtow
  
  Enoch Powell’s rivers speech was actually about the Labour Party’s Race Relations Act , not immigration per se. Today the Labour party are actively considering making “Islamophobia” a crime .
  
  Never let a crisis go to waste.
  
  ps Are the Muslim men operating in gangs ( as reported by msm) who’re beating up whites on sight there also “far right” rioters.
  
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  August 6, 2024 8:50am
  - gravedodger
    
    Err noo They will be “Freedom Fighters”, wont they.
    
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    August 6, 2024 11:11am
iMP

UK RIOTS. Jesus predicted 2000 years ago, that towards the End, ‘Ethnos will rise against Ethnos’ as one of the indicators of ”the beginning of sorrows.”

While there have been riots for centuries, the UK riots feels like an end to the unnatural Utopianism of imposed mass “diversity” by Western liberal ideology (who conveniently label the unrest “far-right” the opposite of their political framework and thus “the enemy.” Why not address their issues and fears?). While “diversity” can work, as in Americanism, the Roman Empire and citizen, or the Commonwealth, when you flood a culture suddenly and in huge numbers, cultural diversity actually creates human tension, conflict and resentment. And the people of one group will rise against “the other,” to defend identity, privileges , resources and opportunities. Because humans are essentially tribal.
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August 6, 2024 8:06am
- David Garrett
  
  iMP: UK RIOTS. Jesus predicted 2000 years ago,
  
  You do realise that Jesus – who probably did exist – didn’t actually write the Bible, right? And as for those “end times”, they have been confidently predicted thousands of times, down to the exact day, for hundreds of years at least.
  
  I am fairly confident I will see out my time on earth without witnessing the “rapture” and the sea giving up its dead. You of course can believe whatever the hell you like! As you obviously do.
  
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  August 6, 2024 8:43am
  - iMP
    
    Just reporting what the Bible has said for 2000 years Jesus predicted would occur towards the “beginning of sorrows.” If you want to turn that in to an anti-biblical rant, join the 2000-year-old queue. Thanks for “allowing” me to believe and state what I do. That’s very generous of your Eminence.
    
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    August 6, 2024 9:35am
    - NothingLeft
      
      “Anti biblical rant”. LOL. In other words please don’t prick the bubbles of my delusion with the barbs of reality, history or facts.
      
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      August 6, 2024 10:50am
    - David Garrett
      
      iMP: Oh dear…The only thing worse than a brainwashed God botherer is an ignorant one..
      
      Once again, the Book of Revelations wasn’t written by Jesus, and if I recall correctly it was written at least 50 years after his death (it may have been much longer; its a long time since I did RELS 101 at Canterbury).
      
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      August 6, 2024 10:52am
      - James Stephenson
        
        per Douglas Adams, Revelations was written by John the Evangelist whilst attempting to travel around the Greek islands on their ferry system. As everyone knows the timetables for said system bear no relationship to reality, which explains the increasingly deranged tone of the book as it goes on.
        
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        August 6, 2024 11:12am
      - TripeWryter
        
        The Revelation was indeed written a long time after Jesus’ death, resurrection, and ascension.
        The tradition is that the desciple John – AKA St John, even St John the Divine in religious circles – was writing it at age 130 in a cave on the island of Patmos.
        Impressive, too, that he was foretelling events more than 2000 years into the future.
        You are correct, David, that Christians have been prophesying the end of the world for almost all that time.
        The trouble is: they’ve all been wrong.
        The only persons who know when to end it all are God and his son, Jesus.
        
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        August 6, 2024 11:23am
      - David Garrett
        
        Tripe: thanks for that…some may not believe me, but I feel sad if all of this is news to iMP; if he has limited education – and belongs to the right/wrong (take your pick) church – he may actually believe the Bible, or at least parts of it, were written by the Son of God himself.
        
        I am not ashamed to proclaim myself as an agnostic who very much hopes that the Christians are right, and it doesn’t all end at the Crem door. But also, my intellect tells me it does.
        
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        August 6, 2024 11:35am
      - Matt Long
        
        The problem with speculation about when and by whom the Apocalypse was written, in this context, is that the quotation of Jesus words is from the Gospel of Matthew Chapter 22.
        https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24&version=NIV
        Most reputable scholars attribute the authorship of this Gospel to Matthew, a former tax collector who became one of the Christ’s 12 disciples.
        
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        August 6, 2024 1:34pm
      - Jethrod
        
        Or alternatively, we could consult the learned maori thinking and what they see as the ending .
        We are constantly fed the dogma at the risk of it seen as the truth.
        
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        August 6, 2024 4:29pm
    - Biscuit
      
      It baffles me why an omnipotent creator would create an entire galaxy for his chosen children to inhabit for only 0.000000000000000000015% of its area for only 0.00004% of its history…
      
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      August 6, 2024 12:48pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Biscuit: Indeed…and the Milky Way galaxy is just one of many (You might have a better idea than me how many there are – that we know about)
        
        One thing I DO think might just happen within my lifetime is contact from some other civilization existing somewhere else in our galaxy or beyond. I think even the powers that be acknowledge that such contact might well occur – and the visitors from another world may well not be friendly. That will give a whole new meaning to “colonization” !!
        
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        August 6, 2024 1:16pm
      - Biscuit
        
        David (1.15pm), one of my fave books is James A Michener’s ‘Space’, which loosely dramatises Apollo program.
        
        There’s a passage, quite early on, that I can recite almost verbatim:
        
        “There are, we judge, one hundred billion other galaxies out there. And if we ever lift a telescope above our atmospheric interruption I’m sure it will reveal an additional hundred billion. For space is limitless. It goes on forever. Always remember, that you and I live on a minor planet at the far edge of a minor galaxy. We live here briefly, and when we’re gone, we’re forgotten. And one day the galaxies will be gone, too.’
        
        Me, no great mind, ha, can barely comprehend the ‘limitless’ mention.
        
        And as regards visitors from other civilisations that makes an interesting point:
        
        Suppose there’s ‘an inhabited planet in Andromeda. Here we are down in the first blush of morning. Remember that although Earth has existed for about four and a half billion years, we’ve only been able to send comprehensive signals into space for only about 45 years. (Call it 80 or 90 now.) Suppose Andromeda had wanted to communicate with us two billion years ago. There was no-one here to listen, and even (100 ) years ago when people were here, they hadn’t mastered the techniques of listening.’
        
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        August 6, 2024 3:55pm
      - PurplePen
        
        Good point. Also makes me think the Christian god is a bit of a sadist. If there was no sin there would be no Jesus. What god goes to all the trouble to create a lovely universe only to fill an iota of it with beings doomed to sin and then be punished by him for it.
        
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        August 6, 2024 4:57pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      iMP would not Christians have been saying the same sort of thing in the lead up to WW2 and multiple other very bloody and chaotic periods of history in the last 2000 years (there have been plenty)? I think you’ll find the answer is yes. Didn’t the books (deemed the New Testament by the ancient world humans in the Council of Nicaea) predict the second coming would happen in the lifetimes of those alive during the time of Jesus/Paul? How did that go?
      
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      August 6, 2024 6:44pm
- Scooter
  
  Not to mention the deadly protests in Bangladesh this week with the PM resigning and fleeing to India and 100’s killed. Also what is happening in Venezuela. It wouldn’t be hard to imagine things escalating here too.
  
  https://apnews.com/article/bangladesh-hasina-student-protest-quota-violence-fdc7f2632c3d8fcbd913e6c0a1903fd4
  
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  August 6, 2024 8:48am
Matt Long

According to X the US economy is so bad they’re even outsourcing the President’s job to an Indian.
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August 6, 2024 8:07am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  Kamala Harris is not an “Indian”. She’s a US citizen.
  
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  August 6, 2024 8:19am
  - iMP
    
    You can be both. “ American citizen” is not an ethnicity.
    
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    August 6, 2024 9:36am
    - David Garrett
      
      iMP: Who the hell knows what is what these days? Judges in New Zealand – who by definition ought to have an IQ comfortably north of 100 – seem to think that Islam is a race, and thus to be vehemently opposed to the adherents of the said cult of death living among us – as I am – is to be, by definition, a racist.
      
      I am in fact what I call a rational Islamophobe – scared of the bastards for very good reasons. I would rather die in my bed while having good sex than have my head hacked off by some deluded teenage “believer” who objected to something I wrote or said.
      
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      August 6, 2024 1:25pm
  - David George
    
    She ain’t “black” either; more a sort of beige.
    
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    August 6, 2024 10:16am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Indian/Jamaican/Honky mix.
      
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      August 6, 2024 6:50pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    She could be (by descent on her mums side) if she chose.
    
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    August 6, 2024 10:55am
- David Garrett
  
  Matt: Ah, that’s very good Sir, very good indeed.
  
  Someone published a link here the other day showing the vapid Harris woman “explaining” what “the cloud” means in computing terms…Apparently it is something that “floats above your head” when you are sitting in front of a computer which has your files stored on it.
  
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  August 6, 2024 8:49am
  - softail 1450
    
    DG,The frightening thing is I believe she actually meant what she said, how the f- -k did the democrats find someone more incompetent than Old Joe? now that was an accomplishment in its own right.😳😳
    
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    August 6, 2024 10:13am
    - David Garrett
      
      softail: Oh, she meant it alright! It was quite clear she had zero understanding of what “the cloud” was.
      
      I admit I had to have someone explain exactly what it meant…but I sure as hell never thought it was some atmospheric phenomenon somewhere above my computers!
      
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      August 6, 2024 10:39am
  - Ghost
    
    Harris gives me more of a headache to listen to than Joe. I believe her brain is in the cloud, floating above her
    
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    August 6, 2024 10:44am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Either impaired by drugs, or some condition, or enjoys saying vacuous mystical sounding things while smirking, as some sort of weird power trip/piss take over her audience. Hard to figure out.
      
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      August 6, 2024 8:06pm
  - Flossie
    
    I wonder if anyone has asked Trump to explain The Cloud? I don’t imagine he’d have a much better idea that she did.
    PS – not on anybody’s “side” just an observation.
    
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    August 6, 2024 11:00am
    - Ghost
      
      Before leaving office he signed an executive order instructing American owned cloud companies to keep information on foreign customers, I’d guess he has a better idea than harris
      
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      August 6, 2024 11:09am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Flossie it would possibly be a bit off but those not afflicted with knee-jerk chronic TDS can ascertain what he means. His communication leaves a lot to be desired but his policies are sensible and actually pretty moderate.
      
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      August 6, 2024 6:53pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    ‘Twas me and today I found this concise summary of the Kamala campaign strategy in the face of US stockmarket problems and a looming recession….
    
    Now remember, complaining about losing 20% of your wealth overnight means you hate black women.
    
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    August 6, 2024 11:26am
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partner cracked up the other day when someone said….
  
  “Kamala has been cocked more times than John Wayne’s rifle”
  
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  August 6, 2024 8:55am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    That’s what they say, they say she has worked her way up on her ……
    
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    August 6, 2024 8:57am
  - David Garrett
    
    MP: Does the woman every wear skirts or dresses? I have only ever seen her in pant suits (or whatever they are called these days).
    
    Perhaps she thinks trousers makes her look more authoratitive…or perhaps she just has awful legs and cankles…
    
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    August 6, 2024 8:58am
    - Inandout
      
      DG, I recall Helen preferred to wear trousers, perhaps to convey a male image.
      
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      August 6, 2024 9:40am
      - David Garrett
        
        Iand: Yes…I recall the cow deliberately wearing trews to a dinner hosted by the Queen – despite being clearly told evening dress was required. God, I’m glad that woman is gone…well, gone from having any power and influence.
        
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        August 6, 2024 10:09am
      - kowtow
        
        DG
        
        Her wearing trousers was a deliberate and calculated slight .
        The height of rudeness .
        
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        August 6, 2024 10:27am
      - O C Smith
        
        DG I think you will find She is still lurking around in the background.
        
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        August 6, 2024 10:38am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Presumably a feminist statement. Known plenty of arty farty lefty women and many were into this sort of thing. This stuff (frumpy trousers, deliberately ugly/silly hair, zero makeup) is quite amplified in NZ. Aparently thinking they were rebelling against the feminist myth that they were “oppressed and held down” “for centuries” by nasty plotting men (ignoring that life was shit for everyone except the upper classes and men also were boxed into social norms, or else).
        
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        August 6, 2024 6:58pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    One parody laughing at another parody. 😀
    
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    August 6, 2024 8:58am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      You are such a bore Bene. If yu don’t find it funny, just delete it 😀
      
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      August 6, 2024 9:02am
      - imalwaysright
        
        “If yu…”
        Brilliant!
        
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        August 6, 2024 10:21am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I’m not the person deleting your comments. That would be the moderators. 😐
        
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        August 6, 2024 10:52am
artemisia

Wellington City Council officers recommend borrowing to fund controversial Thorndon Quay raised pedestrian crossings
Of course they do. But have council staff checked if savings can be made to meet at least some of the $312,500 apparently now required to bridge a gap in a project costing $45.8 million. That would be a project widely condemned by actual ratepayers and users, and finding savings sounds like a no.

Noting these now seem to be called ‘raised safety platforms’. Of course. They used to be called sleeping policemen. Maybe they did not cost $45.8 million back in the day.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/wellington-city-council-officers-recommend-borrowing-to-fund-controversial-thorndon-quay-raised-pedestrian-crossings/TASKLTB3UVCWVG7FLR5OF4X4OM/
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August 6, 2024 8:10am
kowtow

Taking a prosecution against legitimate business for such a technical offence is surely the height of witch trialism…..do the Ayatollahs run the booze persecution dept here.

‘Police are seeking the suspension of South Island New World liquor licences for alleged continual breaches of online alcohol advertising controls.’

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/otago-wine-identity-dies-after-cancer-battle
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August 6, 2024 8:13am
- Cassandra
  
  It is a ludicrous non offence. Meanwhile, if you are burgled………………………
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:59am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The law also seems ridiculous.
    
    Sure the proposed penalty will hurt New World. However it will also I’m inconvenience thousands of shoppers.
    
    The police have collective terrible judgement. If they had their way, all highway speed limits would be 80 kmh.
    
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    August 6, 2024 10:55am
- AitchW
  
  I guess the Police are required to lays charges for such a public breach of the regulations. It’s up to the court to decide if it’s worth continuing, or if found guilty what sort of penalty is appropriate.
  They can always convict and discharge.
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:00am
  - kowtow
    
    In my limited experience Plod have a huge degree of discretion .
    
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    August 6, 2024 10:28am
- softail 1450
  
  KowTow ,it was only a couple of percent , unbelievable.
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:17am
- peterwn
  
  The ‘minimum price’ ‘minimum quantity’ rules are nonsense and impinge on the rights of ordinary people while doing little to curb alcoholism. I hope that David Seymour sorts this out in due course.
  The issue in this instance is whether the individual New World owner/operators can be held accountable for a publicity mishap on the part of the franchisor. Arguably, since the individual owner/operators are shareholders in the franchisor and control the governance of the franchisor, the owner/operators can be held vicariously (fancy legal term meaning as a bystander) liable for the misdoings of the franchisor and hence have to shut their liquor departments for 5 to 14 days or whatever.
  Interestingly if the Woolworths stores were caught in the same position there would be no such issue since the stores as businesses are owned by a NZ subsidiary of Woolworths Australia (ASX:WOW). So arguably Woolworths has to be even more concerned with ensuring liquor laws are adhered to than the New World/Pak ‘n’ Save/Four Square group.
  This would give the Licencing Authority more courage to clobber New World on this one.
  
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  August 6, 2024 11:12am
  - kowtow
    
    Most informative . ty.
    
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    August 6, 2024 12:04pm
JohnRidd

Are people aware of the new New Zealand Pandemic plan the talks about special powers to force people to get vaccinated? Whatever happened to informed consent?

“Special powers
Special powers are authorised by the Minister of Health or by an epidemic notice or
apply where an emergency has been declared under the Civil Defence Emergency
Management Act 2002.
The power to detain, isolate or quarantine allows a medical officer of health to ‘require
persons, places, buildings, ships, vehicles, aircraft, animals, or things to be isolated,
quarantined, or disinfected’ (section 70(1)(f)).
The power to prescribe preventive treatment allows a medical officer of health, in
respect of any person who has been isolated or quarantined, to require people to
remain where they are isolated or quarantined until they have been medically
examined and found to be free from infectious disease, and until they have undergone
such preventive treatment as the medical officer of health prescribes (section 70(1)(h)).”

Link to the plan below.

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/interim_nz_pandemic_plan_v2.pdf
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August 6, 2024 8:19am
- Grunter
  
  Yes, I posted that last week – this document is truly awful.
  
  If it comes to ever playing out there will be major civil unrest IMO.
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:45am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Those powers have been in legislation for decades.
    
    No the civil unrest will occur if there is ever a truly deadly infectious pandemic that kills most of those infected. Throughout history, mass violence has been aimed at the infected. If Ciprofloxacin was around in the 14th century, the population would have cheered at compulsory treatment.
    
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    August 6, 2024 10:13am
    - JohnRidd
      
      There is a big difference giving a treatment to a person who is sick and forcing a healthy person to take a preventative.
      
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      August 6, 2024 10:50am
      - Ghost
        
        No one was forced. It was mandated for some jobs, they didn’t have to take it, could quit, get a medical exemption
        
        I never had it, wasn’t forced to take it. The one phone call I got to let me know where to get it I told them I wasn’t getting it. Was asked why. Told them, they placed it in my file, I was never contacted again.
        
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        August 6, 2024 11:53am
      - JohnRidd
        
        Ghost. I am not talking about the past. This is saying that in the future people will be forced. This is new.
        
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        August 6, 2024 12:28pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Ghost – at what level of coercion do you deem it to be ‘forced’? Your definition appears to be non-one was held down and injected against their will.
        
        If you worked in a hospital or school and refused treatment or even not to disclose your private medical information you lost your job. This is economic ‘force’. No different than being forced off land by exorbitant rentals or taxes. That stuff led to wars in days gone by.
        
        So the fact your job or benefit didn’t require you to be treated doesn’t make you an expert on this subject. I know medical people who lost their jobs. I was at the Teachers protest on Dominion Road when they lost their jobs. Those people didn’t choose to leave their job – they were forced by the legislative framework.
        
        For a summer we were forced to not participate in many activities because we refused to get the passports and many went along with this and made sure those rules were enforced. Our children were forced to wear masks at school too. Most people don’t believe masks do anything to help prevent transmission but most just complied with that too. The Stasi existed and tried to force adherence to the Covidian Religion. I wasn’t forced, I didn’t wear masks, I kept my job but I can still see that others were forced out of their jobs or to take the treatment so they could provide for their families. Both noble decisions in my mind and both a result of the force that was most definitely applied.
        
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        August 6, 2024 12:37pm
      - Ghost
        
        Our ed had several staff who resigned instead of taking it. That was the decision they made. I have a friend whose daughter made the same decision. No one was forced to remain in a job and forced to get a vaccine, people made the personal decisions to do so while other mad the decision to quit.
        
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        August 6, 2024 12:50pm
      - wsk12345
        
        Well lucky you Ghost. I said no and lost my job. I work entirely from home and had only ever met my colleagues on Teams. So no it wasn’t as simplistic as you make it, it was a punative approach to force people to take a medical product without informed (or any) consent.
        
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        August 6, 2024 2:01pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Ghost: Utter bullshit! If you were a cop, or a nurse or a teacher, you had Hobson’s Choice: take this experimental so called vaccine, and keep your job, or resign or be sacked.
        
        For the 99% of people who don’t have the wherewithal to do 12 or 24 months without an income, that was no choice at all. It was literally get “vaccinated” or your kids didn’t eat.
        
        And for the record, I had three “vaccinations”, but from what I know now, there is no fucking way I would ever have any more of them
        
        (As a sensible precaution I get the ordinary seasonal flu vaccine, and would get a tetanus shot if I stand on a nail at the ranch and can’t remember when I last had a shot. My much loved children had all the “ordinary” childhood vaccines)
        
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        August 6, 2024 2:04pm
      - Ghost
        
        No idea why you think they were without work for 12 to 24 months. I know several who quit and walked into new jobs outside of health not long after quitting, who have intention of going back to health and enjoy the their new careers. I also know a gp who sold her practice instead of having it. People had options many took the option of the vaccine because they believed in it.
        
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        August 6, 2024 2:15pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Ghost: So, you know “several people” who abandoned their previous careers – because they were presented with Hobson’s Choice – and are now happy in new ones – I don’t doubt you.
        
        However when I was still in NZ I acted for dozen or so people, policemen nurses and teachers, who were absolutely NOT happy to have to abandon their careers and take whatever work they could get.
        
        I am a bit out of touch now, living as I do in the Magic Kingdom, but there are literally hundreds if not thousands of cases waiting in the legal wings after mandates were declared illegal. De facto compulsion is going to cost the taxpayer tens of millions.
        
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        August 6, 2024 2:22pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Nobody jumped on them with a syringe but they were definitely heavily coerced to take the prototype vaccines, with the threat of career destruction ( especially so for those in the autumn of their careers). There was also an atmosphere of neurotic paranoia whipped up where families and others would turn on the unvaccinated in their circles.
        
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        August 6, 2024 7:06pm
    - wsk12345
      
      Except during covid when all the vitriol as toward the unvaxxed who had no more chance of having the lurgy than anyone else.
      
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      August 6, 2024 1:59pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I have repeatedly commented that compulsory covid vaccines were not justified. The vaccine passes, the whole nightmare.
  
  However, New Zealand has long allowed compulsory treatment of individuals. People with severe mental health problems are compulsorily medicated every day here.
  
  What would you do if there was an outbreak of bubonic plague? Yes that could still happen. Unlikely, but possible.
  
  https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/21590-bubonic-plague
  
  Plague is treated by strong antibiotics. If not treated it is usually fatal and highly contagious. What do you do if someone refuses treatment? They could not be allowed to walk about freely. If history is a guide, they would be killed by folk terrified of being infected.
  
  Compulsory treatment should be a last resort, but it does need to be a resort because the alternative may be worse than the compulsion.
  
  COVID is not a good template for pandemic management. Hopefully, the shocking mistakes will never happen again. However if a deadly, infectious, pandemic were to arrive, interfering with liberty will be the least of your worries.
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:18am
  - Grunter
    
    Bene
    Here’s what part of the new pandemic plan says. If this doesn’t cause a mass riot in the streets of NZ then we have no hope.
    
    “Special powers are authorised by the Minister of Health or by an epidemic notice or apply where an emergency has been declared under the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act 2002. The power to detain, isolate or quarantine allows a medical officer of health to ‘require persons, places, buildings, ships, vehicles, aircraft, animals, or things to be isolated, quarantined, or disinfected’ (section 70(1)(f)). The power to prescribe preventive treatment allows a medical officer of health, in respect of any person who has been isolated or quarantined, to require people to remain where they are isolated or quarantined until they have been medically examined and found to be free from infectious disease, and until they have undergone such preventive treatment as the medical officer of health prescribes (section 70(1)(h))…
    
    Section 71A states that a member of the police may do anything reasonably necessary (including the use of force) to help a medical officer of health or any person authorized by the medical officer of health in the exercise or performance of powers or functions under sections 70 or 71.”
    
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    August 6, 2024 11:03am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      You may be missing my point. Those powers are not new. The wording may be slightly different but those exact powers were in the Health Act 1956.
      
      https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1956/0065/latest/whole.html#DLM307211
      
      In an outbreak of (say) bubonic plague, no sane person is going to refuse treatment.
      
      Even going back to polio vaccines in the 1950s, did any parents refuse the vaccine for their children? This was a vaccine that quite literally ended the horrors of polio. I can’t be bothered doing the research, but I have little doubt that the authorities at the time would have intervened if a parent was so stupid as to prevent their child from receiving a polio vaccine.
      
      What if an influenza hit now that had the mortality of the 1918 flu pandemic? Let’s say there was a vaccine. Would we allow a parent to not vaccinate their child? Of course not.
      
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      August 6, 2024 11:40am
      - wsk12345
        
        Don’t be insane. Youve been through the last 4 years and think we should vaccinate into a flu epidemic?!?! Even knowing that influenza vaccines are largely useless? No way would my children get that vaccine.
        
        Just shows that even people we think are smart have serious blind spots.
        
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        August 6, 2024 2:06pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Maybe three options should be given rather than compulsion:
    1/ vaccinate
    2/ natural immunity via infection, but done in isolation with innoculation/variolation (be deliberately infected with minimal dose to get disease but giving immune system maximum time to build it’s response)
    3/ ongoing isolation.
    
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    August 6, 2024 11:04am
  - Inandout
    
    BY, it can be assumed that the great historic plagues eventually ran out of victims because of natural resistance. The deaths didn’t stop overnight but lessened over months and into years. There are still a handfull of diseases like rabies which if left untreated and enters the nervous system is 100% fatal. Rapid breeders such as rabbits can in most cases overcome introduced viruses. Just as nature does not tolerate barren soil forever, so with animals and their breeding pattern.
    
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    August 6, 2024 11:19am
- peterwn
  
  This comes down to Geoffrey Palmer’s Bill of Rights Act 1990. Mandatory Covid or other vaccinations could be outlawed by one or more of Sections 9, 10, 11.
  Given that, Sections 4 to 7 come into play in deciding whether vaccinations are outlawed especially where mandatory vaccinations are specifically permitted by other legislation.
  
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  August 6, 2024 1:09pm
- mawm
  
  John – it seems to build on the Jacinda response which to me is premature as we have not completed any inquiry into the management of Covid-19 pandemic.
  
  Just an aside I see that under the heading “Public Information Management
  Strategy” we now have Treaty obligations!
  
  Page 114 – “Specifically, meeting our Te Tiriti of Waitangi obligations means partnering with Māori to develop ways of communicating with Māori…”
  
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  August 6, 2024 6:30pm
Bridgenag

The Right to Think for Yourself
Consequences of State Control of the Overton Window

“The Overton Window is a model for understanding how ideas in society change over time and influence politics. The core concept is that politicians are limited in what policy ideas they can support — they generally only pursue policies that are widely accepted throughout society as legitimate policy options. These policies lie inside the Overton Window. Other policy ideas exist, but politicians risk losing popular support if they champion them. These policies lie outside the Overton Window.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/the-right-to-think-for-yourself?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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August 6, 2024 8:23am
- Grunter
  
  In 1787, in the midst of the Scottish Enlightenment that gave rise to Adam Smith, economist and historian Alexander Tytler is credited as having said:
  
  “A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”
  
  Once the warning signs begin to appear, AS THEY ARE NOW, it’s important to remember that, historically, the process never reverses itself. An apathetic population is not one that will suddenly decide to roll up its sleeves and get the country, once again, on a productive footing. The brainwashed majority ride the empty promises downhill all the way to the bottom. Only then can a ‘revolution’ of some sort change the course of history. Examples are plenty (Rome, France, Germany, Russia, ……)
  
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  August 6, 2024 8:58am
Yvette

A Micro Nuclear Power Plant in Your Backyard …

AI is power-hungry. It’s predicted that AI will require 100% of the U.S. energy production by 2030. While China has been rapidly scaling its energy production (see chart below), the U.S. energy output has been flat. China’s meltdown-proof nuclear reactor marks a pivotal moment for clean energy and is likely the approach the U.S. will need to meet both its AI objectives as well as its climate goals.
https://singularityhub.com/2024/07/26/china-demonstrates-the-first-entirely-meltdown-proof-nuclear-reactor/?

See? – that came a bit out of the blue. But 2030 is note really that far off and here a question may be –

Why is the Foundation Stone of New Zealand’s democracy, a stumbling block or millstone, weighing the nation down to the 1840s, 187 years back, when the USA and China soar into the future?

When you work with turkeys, it is difficult to fly with the eagles.

And, this thunderbolt just dropped out of the sky

The Tangiwai Mill produces timber needed for housing, farming, and pallets – which is exported across the globe.
But the soaring price of electricity means it’s too expensive to keep the mills running, according to its owner.
The company now has two weeks to try and find a plan to remain in operation.
Winstone chief executive Mike Ryan said they can’t go on with electricity now 600 per cent more expensive than it was in 2021.

Jones said there needed to be pressure, potentially an inquiry, to push down power prices.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350368246/watch-hundreds-jobs-under-threat-rising-power-prices-could-close-two-mills

Do it, Shane, before we run out of gas – like, without enough in the Tank
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August 6, 2024 8:26am
I remember when

After driving around Palmerston North and Wellington on Sunday I am expecting RSI from the repetitive need to drive over raised speed bumps of various designs.
Do those who avidly support their use fall into one of three camps?
One, those who believe it is the cheapest way to control unruly elements.
Two, those who support one outside their property because it reduces speeding vehicles and hooning.
Three, council employees and those who believe that like Zero Carbon we can achieve Zero Road Deaths.
Will success be achieved when every property has a raised speed bump outside their gate?
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August 6, 2024 8:27am
- wisteria
  
  If enough are constructed will we have flat roads again.
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:17am
Maggie Pie

See where they’re saying 63% of Y8 Students did not meet the expected
curriculum benchmark for maths!
Little wonder, with what’s going on in our schools….

James Cook High School Assistant Principal ‘Seelan Ramiah’ has been jailed
for 2-years 5-months for sexually grooming a 14yo student.
Among other perversions, he even asked the gurl for her underwear 🙁

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/teacher-jailed-giving-student-sex-toy-sending-nudes
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August 6, 2024 8:27am
- David Garrett
  
  MP: Well, at least one judge is not the female equivalent of a soft cock…He will still do less than two years in the pokie.
  
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  August 6, 2024 8:59am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I think it is worse than that, 63% couldn’t pass the basic test including times tables, but another 15% struggled with basic maths
  
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  August 6, 2024 8:59am
- Benedict Yu
  
  You really need remedial lessons in spelling. ☹️
  
  Yes sexual assault by teachers on students is odious. Incredibly it is not confined to male teachers.
  
  However, such assaults are not the cause of the maths debacle in New Zealand schools. I am surprised that you would even joke about it.
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:02am
  - David Garrett
    
    Bene: Any spelling mistakes in in Ms Remuera’s post has escaped my gimlet eye…
    
    8 1
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    August 6, 2024 9:09am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Gurl
      
      5 10
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      August 6, 2024 9:24am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Oh FFS!!
        
        LoL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        
        16 3
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        August 6, 2024 9:27am
      - softail 1450
        
        Bene ,You could benefit from a humour transplant Bene and luckily for you you could use your own as the donor because it’s entirely new and never been used. 😂😂😂
        
        13 4
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        August 6, 2024 10:25am
      - John Loveridge
        
        Benedict, I’m sorry to be the one to tell you, but it’s your grasp of idiomatic English that is going to require remedial lessons. You can start by reading this:
        
        https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gurl%29%3A
        
        6 1
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        August 6, 2024 11:48am
      - mogg
        
        Come on, that’s Maggie’s poetic licence in action, it’s adding colour and humour. From memory I’m fairly sure that Donleavy used it in The Gingerman’ which is still a fabulous read.
        
        7 1
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        August 6, 2024 11:56am
    - Dave
      
      ‘gurl’ instead of ‘girl’, though whether that’s a typo or deliberate, I’m unsure – perhaps the latter, given other examples of Maggie’s style.
      
      On the matter of typos and English errors, here are two: ‘Any mistakes in in Ms Remuera’s post has escaped…’ or are these deliberate irony?
      
      6 1
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      August 6, 2024 9:44am
    - David Garrett
      
      Ah! Now I see it…not at my sharpest this am…bad dose of Tonga Tummy yesterday…TMI I guess
      
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      August 6, 2024 9:58am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Too much imbibing?
        
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        August 6, 2024 7:12pm
  - Matt Long
    
    BY, in my 6th form year the physics teacher was fired for sexual misconduct and the class was given correspondence school work books, then left mostly unsupervised to muck around and burn stuff.
    So yes sexual misconduct by teachers does affect student learning, especially for victims.
    
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    August 6, 2024 9:09am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes I am sure that is true.
      
      However it does not mean that the disaster in maths achievement is caused by sexual assault on children. Which is what Maggie was inferring.
      
      6 6
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      August 6, 2024 9:27am
      - Scooter
        
        Bene, when you’re explaining you’re losing.
        
        1 1
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        August 6, 2024 5:17pm
    - AitchW
      
      Our 7th form bio teacher was fired about a month out from end of year exams for molesting 4th form boys.
      We too were left to our own devices for the time before the exam.
      That was late 70s, I believe that the cops are looking into the matter now with a view to a prosecution.
      He’d have to be in his 80s by now…
      
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      August 6, 2024 10:03am
      - softail 1450
        
        AitchW, Yeah back in those days prospective teachers had 2 choices ,school teacher or Catholic priest, some of the male teacher at my high school were in retrospect pedophiles or sadists which would not be tolerated today and that’s a good thing.
        I’m not proud of it now but one particularly bad arsehole who delighted in humiliating male students only was administered some humiliation and pain by myself when I met him a few years after I finally escaped school, his ego was so huge that calling him a poofter was enough for him to lose his rag to the level where I could justifiably defend myself and I did.
        
        8 1
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        August 6, 2024 10:35am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        So not just the Catholic church hey? Maybe preverts (yes, preverts) congregate where there are children?
        
        0 0
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        August 6, 2024 7:14pm
  - sirknz
    
    Seems fitting for current year…
    
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gurl
    
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    August 6, 2024 9:21am
    - Blog-aholic
      
      pronoun for female (that is XX) dude.
      
      4 1
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      August 6, 2024 9:39am
  - imalwaysright
    
    The spelling is clearly intentional and adds humorous nuance. I like it.
    
    17 1
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    August 6, 2024 9:25am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    If teachers are more interested in things that are not the basics (activism, hitting on children etc), then they are not fit for purpose and the kids are missing out on the education they need.
    Who thinks that John Minto, a maths teacher could be relied upon to actually teach the kids in his class maths?
    
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    August 6, 2024 9:26am
    - NothingLeft
      
      Seriously? He was a math teacher? Yet as a crypto-communist supported the most conspicuously innumerate and proven illogical system of politics ever. More proof of the old adage; those who can do, those who can’t teach.
      
      4 1
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      August 6, 2024 10:47am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        John Minto was a Maths/physics teacher.
        
        There were never any complaints that he was preaching politics in class.
        
        I think the fact that most people were unaware that he had a full-time regular job indicates that he did manage to keep his classroom teaching separate from his extra-curricular life.
        
        Minto would not let Stuff watch him at work for this story. He explains that he has always kept his school life separate from his public activities.
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/84039267/john-minto-the-underdogs-tale
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/social-justice-is-the-minto-way/Q3PAO654WT4GZOSQ42WF2CZUWA/
        
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        August 6, 2024 11:50am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      “Now boys and girls, I want you to count the ways in which NZ is a racist country.”
      
      3 2
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      August 6, 2024 11:04am
- Matt Long
  
  It must be a real comfort to the victims that the offender was registered teacher.
  Thank heavens for the safety provided by uniounised workplaces.
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:03am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    That behaviour is par for the cause with the left and unions
    
    7 1
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    August 6, 2024 9:13am
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      Giant, I think that word should be spelled “Cause”.
      A wonderful play on words.
      
      2 2
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      August 6, 2024 9:43am
  - David Garrett
    
    Matt: Ah, you are on form this morning Sir, and no mistake.
    
    12 0
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    August 6, 2024 9:16am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    Like that fella from Rangi Ruru….he too was well protected and even Stuff seemed happy to employ him….now I think he is a TPK public servant.
    
    7 1
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    August 6, 2024 9:41am
    - Ghost
      
      Stuff fired him when they found out about him.
      
      5 1
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      August 6, 2024 9:47am
      - Blog-aholic
        
        Stuff employed him and they knew about it when they did. When it came to the attention of the Public is when they let him go.
        
        13 2
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        August 6, 2024 9:56am
      - Ghost
        
        . The public found out about it because stuff reported it, he was fired when the Teachers Disciplinary Tribunal decision was made public. No one including stuff had prior knowledge until that was released
        
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        August 6, 2024 10:08am
imalwaysright

Why does it cost $20,000,000 to get teachers to implement a maths curriculum?
We aren’t talking quantum physics here.

What about downloading a curriculum from a country with high pass rates and email it to all of the teachers and tell them to teach it ?
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August 6, 2024 8:28am
- Jake Dee
  
  Because that curriculum from a country with high pass rates would all be in Chinese (or Korean or Japanese).
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:48am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Get the Singapore curriculum then.
    
    https://www.moe.gov.sg/-/media/files/primary/mathematics_syllabus_primary_1_to_6.pdf
    
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    August 6, 2024 10:15am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Mw
      Thanks for that. I sent it to Erica Stanford:
      
      “Dear Mrs Stanford,
      
      Congratulations on your efforts to date.
      
      Please see below a link to the maths curriculum from the Singapore government .
      
      Would it be possible to adopt this as New Zealands curriculum ?
      
      It is a proven curriculum and as such may expedite our exit from the current crisis.
      
      https://www.moe.gov.sg/-/media/files/primary/mathematics_syllabus_primary_1_to_6.pdf
      
      All the best”
      
      Fingers crossed
      
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      August 6, 2024 10:35am
      - Grunter
        
        She already has it. I’ve previously sent it to her.
        
        The Teachers Union will stop it. They are the problem. Stanford doesn’t have the guts (or the Boss) to take out the Teachers Union.
        
        Don’t for one minute think that logic will solve this mess. The Leftards are well in charge of our kids and young adults. Deliberately not teaching Maths, all in plain sight.
        
        But hey, keep voting Left and/or Labour Lite and that’s what NZ deserves!
        
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        August 6, 2024 11:12am
      - imalwaysright
        
        G
        You are correct, and I understand it is tantamount
        to futile.
        
        But we must keep saying our opinions. These sites are monitored, don’t underestimate their influence.
        
        4 1
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        August 6, 2024 11:53am
      - Jack5
        
        Maggy Wassilieff’s …. Get the Singapore curriculum then .,..
        
        A more achievable gain might be to match Australia. Our neighbour now ranks 10th in the world in maths, according to this:
        
        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-05/pisa-international-school-rankings-in-maths-science-reading/103185468
        
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        August 6, 2024 1:20pm
      - Damocles11
        
        Take on the Teachers Union??!! Geez, how about we take the temperature down and show respect instead!!
        
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        August 6, 2024 3:21pm
      - PurplePen
        
        Why can’t they just pay a licence fee for the baccalaureate or the other international curriculum, both supposedly excellent quality and ditch everything else. The funds would come from most of the ministry then being made redundant. Lord knows what they do that’s of any use. Their only track record is a dismal waste of tax.
        
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        August 6, 2024 5:13pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      I thought that would be your next comment and it is a good one, but the problem is not language, it’s cultural. China, Korea, Japan and Singapore are all Confucianist countries, teachers, scholarship, education has a status that it just doesn’t have over here. You can’t just change the curriculum like a plug and play software upgrade, they have to be adapted to cultural circumstances.
      the reason why NZ doesn’t get the same educational performance, especially in maths and science that those Confucianist countries get, is both very easy to explain and very difficult to solve. Namely, that we don’t have enough teachers who are smart enough and also willing to work hard enough for long enough.
      
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      August 6, 2024 1:02pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Spot on
        
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        August 6, 2024 10:29pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      You’d have to allow the SG govt to have full control of NZ. Too many far left dingbats embedded in the system now.
      
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      August 6, 2024 7:18pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  For some reason that I find difficult to comprehend, it seems many of our “qualified” primary and intermediate school teachers feel incapable of teaching very basic mathematics.
  
  We are not talking calculus or probability theory here, but just foundational numeracy and measurement and an introduction to shapes and patterns.
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:49am
  - imalwaysright
    
    The teachers should take class assessment tests and ncea exams along with the students.
    It would be interesting to see where they rank.
    
    12 1
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    August 6, 2024 9:59am
  - Taieri
    
    many of our “qualified” primary and intermediate school teachers feel incapable of teaching very basic mathematics
    ———-
    
    Many moons ago now, I went to a small rural primary school. The school was very basic, its teachers never graduated from a university, computers were not invented yet, in fact, there’s just a blackboard and a piece of chalk. Yet, all these years later, I can still add, subtract, multiply and divide whole numbers in my head. The same with calculating the areas of common geometrical shapes and so on.
    I can’t recall the Prime Ministers making speeches about the school curriculum in those days either…
    
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    August 6, 2024 10:30am
    - pdm
      
      Me too Taieri and I did not start school until I was nearly 6 in 1952.
      
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      August 6, 2024 12:59pm
    - Biscuit
      
      None of them ‘teacher only days’ back then either.
      
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      August 6, 2024 1:05pm
  - rangitoto
    
    The rot set in when they stopped using Euclid’s Elements to teach geometry.
    
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    August 6, 2024 1:03pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Or perhaps when decimalisation arrived….
      
      If a Bushel of strawberries sells for £4/8/4d; how much would you pay for 2 quarts?
      
      2 1
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      August 6, 2024 4:04pm
    - Jethrod
      
      Weren’t Euclids big dump trucks?
      
      1 0
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      August 6, 2024 4:47pm
- Grunter
  
  The Unions run our schools. Us taxpayers fund them. That is a recipe for NO CHANGE COMING SOON….!!
  
  Stanford and Luxon are saying all the right things – but they are just words from a powerless Govt.
  
  A few hundred Charter Schools is a step in the right direction for say 5,000 pupils. The rest will suffer the on-going indocrination.
  
  NZ Schools and Universities are too far gone. They will ultimately collapse but a lot of pain to come before then.
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:54am
  - PurplePen
    
    I did hear Stanford saying in radio today, I forget which station, that she’s going to effectively ignore the union.
    
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    August 6, 2024 5:16pm
- James Stephenson
  
  The problem isn’t the curriculum, it’s modern teaching fads like “inquiry learning”. It doesn’t take Level 2 maths to get kids rote-learning times tables as a basic foundation.
  
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  August 6, 2024 11:03am
  - PurplePen
    
    There’s another unfathomable. If the teaching approach has been “inquiry learning”, why when it comes to local body elections you get reported from younger mortals “I don’t know anything about the candidates”, “You can’t find a letterbox”, and more like that. Have they not heard or nor able to use Google search or the internet. The information for anything you need to know is there.
    
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    August 6, 2024 5:19pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Google (and most big tech) are about invasively tracking you as much as possible to sell/use details of YOUR private life to enable their advertising business models. Nobody is keeping tabs in a meaningful way on where this highly personal and sensitive info ends up. There are ways to avoid this as much as possible. A start is to avoid using big tech search engines.
      
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      August 6, 2024 7:25pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Or, tell them to _learn_ it.
  
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  August 6, 2024 12:31pm
Skippytony

I see the usual suspects are trying to tap up the long suffering taxpayer to fund the completion of the Christchurch cathedral repairs.
Only $100 million or so (at this point). We are already paying a rates levy for it and the Mayor has acknowledged that there is already alarm / anger that people other than the owners are on the hook for the repairs.
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August 6, 2024 8:35am
- Grunter
  
  Time for the bulldozer! It should have happened 6 months after the EQ.
  
  If you disagree, then it’s time you coughed up $100 million!
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:56am
- Benedict Yu
  
  To be fair to the owners, they never wanted this. They were effectively bullied into restoring the church.
  Inevitably, when the cathedral is abandoned, the Anglican church will have to find more money to build a fit for purpose cathedral, which could take a very long time.
  
  It is a disaster, but totally foreseeable.
  
  To save money the Anglicans have now downgraded the seismic strengthening.😳😳
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2024/06/decision-made-to-scale-back-christ-church-cathedral-reinstatement-project.html
  
  Presumably, the cathedral is intended to last effectively forever. Say, 200, 300 years. During that time, it will almost certainly experience one very severe and several large earthquakes.
  
  The whole point of the restoration was to ensure that it was not destroyed again in the next earthquake.
  
  By far the most likely scenario now is that it will be demolished. However, there remain a few people who tell us that “there is no choice” but to keep on going. Wayne Mapp is one of them.
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:09am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Have they still not re-build that #$@%ing cathedral yet?
  How many years since the earthquake?
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:10am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I am sure that you are joking. It has hardly begun.
    
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    August 6, 2024 10:43am
- imalwaysright
  
  Sk
  $100 million is what the new 50 bed childrens hospital in Wellington cost.
  Thanks to the kindness of Markus Dunajtschik who put up half the money and managed the project.
  I would rather have that than an ego driven edifice that will be as useless as most of its promoters.
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:16am
- RoboRob
  
  The media reported that the council was paying the remaining 7m of the 10m originally promised.
  
  No one was consulted on the original 10m. That just came as an announcment from the council. My big fear is the the council says, we will cover the over runs as we dont want a city left with a partially completed rebuild. NO. If they are concerned about being left with a partial rebuild, put the 7m asside and use it to fund demolition if the catholics cant find the additional funds to complete.
  
  Jim Anderton and Philip Burdon said the costs of a rebuilding were overstated (oops) and that the rebuild charity had plenty of funds to help with the rebuild. Where are the rebuild people now (I know Andertons dead). Shouldn’t we be going to them for the additional costs, afterall they were the people the forced the church to rebuild.
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:27am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “… if the catholics cant find the additional funds to complete.”
    
    The cathedral is owned by the Anglican church. The Catholic Church has their rebuild in good order, with no public money required.
    
    Yes the council may come to the rescue. Unlikely because the public backlash would be epic. Neither will Nicola Willis so anything. TBH they are buggered.
    
    I can only assume that the council handed over the 7 million because they were contracted to do so. If not, they were stupid.
    
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    August 6, 2024 10:48am
    - AitchW
      
      I suspect that had the late (not lamented) Jim Anderton not stuck his oar in, along with the other assorted busybodies who got involved, so that the church was forced to replicate the old cathedral, it would have been replaced by now with a nice new, modern building by now.
      I have nothing but contempt for those interfering idiots who have foisted this moronic replication upon the church and the people of NZ.
      Curtain twitchers the lot of them.
      
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      August 6, 2024 11:09am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Can they not pray in a disused warehouse or other building ?
        What is their priority, the vanity architecture or the message ?
        
        I see this as an opportunity for the church to gauge the support that they have.
        
        It could be that there is very little support for this use of so much money.
        
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        August 6, 2024 12:02pm
      - Burtland
        
        the cathedral HAS been replaced by a nice new fake cardboard one – its not going to last long though as its got a plastic roof
        
        will the rate payers have to replace that roof as well, like they did for the slate roof on the old cathedral ?
        
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        August 6, 2024 1:17pm
      - RoboRob
        
        Couldn’t agree more. However the battle was between sects within the church. They should have been allowed to fight it out (as they did) WITHOUT the council coming to the party.
        
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        August 6, 2024 2:53pm
      - Jack5
        
        If it’s tourist appeal Christchurch seeks, then the earthquake ruins of the cathedral might be better than a new building.
        
        There are cathedrals by the hundred round the world, and some are far, far more impressive than the pre-earthquake building in Christchurch’s Cathedral Squale.
        
        Berlin has an example of church ruins that have tourism appeal: the Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church, destroyed by Allied bombers in 1943. It is now complemented by a chapel.
        
        https://www.introducingberlin.com/kaiser-wilhelm-memorial-church
        
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        August 6, 2024 3:43pm
    - RoboRob
      
      Lol, my bad. Wrong denomination 🙂
      
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      August 6, 2024 2:51pm
- PurplePen
  
  The irony is, wasn’t the cathedral central and essential to the CHCH community etc etc etc. And yet, CHCH and everyone in it seems to be operating perfectly fine without it for 13 years!!! Bulldoze it or just restore what’s there sufficient that it doesn’t fall over.
  
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  August 6, 2024 5:25pm
Yvette

Treaty Principles Bill Plan ‘B‘?

If introduction of the Treaty Principles Bill trends towards UK style riots, is there a plan ‘B’, to introduce a New Zealand Rights And Responsibilities Bill, same tenets of democratic society –

1. Government by the Crown; 2. Property rights protected; and 3. Equal rights for all New Zealanders

– but devoid of any Treaty reference?

Unless such reference is then a justification – the democratic doubt stirred up over the Treaty requiring separate re-statement of democratic rule.

If Treaty “Principles” are to be cut from other legislation where they are not needed, cut it from this restatement of democratic law too.
Catch the Treaty in the later following backtracking pincer move

And add to the declaration –
4. New Zealand Government is secular.

Again, to have a later following backtracking pincer move to curb or kerb te Ao Maori – the Maorireligious world-view, which should be practiced by individuals or groups, as with other religions (Islam, Buddhism et al) but not by Governments on behalf of the entire population.
_____________
Drop both any reference to God or karakia to open Parliament each sitting – instead have the reading of one sentence from relevant Standing Orders on reasonable human behaviour, honesty, and collective mental wellbeing
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August 6, 2024 8:53am
- Skippytony
  
  Do you understand how utterly insane all this debate about the treaty sounds to a non-kiwi ?
  What hope is there for a reasonable and widely accepted solution when you can’t even agree what is actually written in the treaty?
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:18am
  - Chris Nisbet
    
    Umm, I don’t think we need to agree what was actually written down – our Treaty partners simply tell us what it means, and that is what it means.
    You’re not wrong – It’s all a little bit Alice in Wonderland.
    
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    August 6, 2024 12:38pm
  - Burtland
    
    “a reasonable and widely accepted solution” will only occur when one party runs out of money – guess which one.
    
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    August 6, 2024 1:23pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    The details of the Treaty are particular to New Zealand, but this is really a debate about the fundamental nature of government and that is a debate that is happening all over the West.
    
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    August 6, 2024 2:27pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I can confidently report that to newly arrived New Zealanders it sounds like a buzzing noise interspersed with the word “Treaty”.
    
    Imagine if the Australians argued daily about the meaning of their constitution. It is written in English. It is easy to understand. It even says in the event of disagreement, the High Court has the final say on its meaning.
    
    I have no idea what the solution is here. I am beginning to despair of a solution. No doubt others feel the same given the record numbers leaving.
    
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    August 6, 2024 4:10pm
- Jake Dee
  
  Yesterday I noted my objections to article 1 of this ” New Zealand Rights and Responsibilities Bill” now I must object to this article 4 “New Zealand Government is secular”.
  My objections to both are rather similar. There is a weak interpretation of “secular government” which is pointless, and a strong interpretation which is positively dangerous.
  This is also similar to my previous comment about “Māori gods in science”. There I mentioned that it is extremely unlikely that anyone seriously believes that earthquakes are caused by angry underground Gods, but it is highly likely that people are using the names of ancient Gods as part of an extended metaphor which is something people do all the time (Good Heavens! By Jove!)
  If you declare Government must be secular, then EITHER you just make a list of words forbidden in parliament and official documents, in which case people will just say fundamentally the same thing with slightly different words, OR you start up a witch hunt (whoops! another religious metaphor, although some of these people maybe literal witches) to purge people with forbidden beliefs, ideologies and metaphysics. Many of which are not harmful, positively useful and have been part of human society for thousands of years.
  To me any declaration that government must be secular is a foot in the door for an inquisition to anathemize and purge anyone with a weird, inconvenient or unpopular faith and I don’t trust government to have that power.
  We already have rules to remove criminals and the insane from power, let’s leave it at that.
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:19am
  - Yvette
    
    Jake Dee, article 4 “New Zealand Government is secular” is not a Government policy or proposal – it was just whacked in there as an idea, with the qualification ”which should be practiced by individuals or groups, as with other religions (Islam, Buddhism et al) but not by Governments on behalf of the entire population.”.
    Totally religious freedom, but just the State does not support any particular religion.
    
    Public Service Census 2021
    Maori religions, beliefs 1.7 percent 2021, against 1.3 percent 2018 entire population 2018 Census.
    https://www.publicservice.govt.nz/research-and-data/public-service-workforce-data-2021/workforce-data-diversity-and-inclusion-2021/workforce-data-religion-2021#:
    
    2023 Census MIA
    
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    August 6, 2024 11:17am
    - Jake Dee
      
      Firstly, I should say thank for the debate. we are really digging down into some serious issues here and that is very rare.
      For New Zealanders the Treaty debate is about writing/rewriting, defining or abolishing something very much like the fundamental constitution of the nation and that’s heavy stuff. Usually, it takes a revolution or a civil war to get that done, two things that NZ has never had.
      What we have had is two or more generations of these fundamental structures being salami sliced away by lawyers, bureaucrats and activists and that has to stop. But it behooves everyone involved to move with extreme caution lest something gets broken that can’t be fixed.
      On the specific point of secular vs religious in the fundamental social structure, the first amendment to the US constitution is their establishment clause, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.” Now given the context of the times that seems like a specific prohibition against the sort of relationship that the old European monarchies had to various churches. It seems very reasonable; you can avoid the wars of religion that plagued those kingdoms for centuries.
      I like that establishment clause but I DON”T think it creates a secular state nor should it. The language and ideas of certain faiths will get purged from the public sphere because they are from the older faiths that are considered “religions” or “Churches”, but the language and ideas of other faiths (perhaps ones even more mystical and superstitious) will be allowed because they are not associated with those old faiths.
      So, Christmas trees get purged but rainbow flags get promoted. Aren’t both a display of faith and belief in the things unseen?
      Can you really slice out prayers in parliament and keep ANZAC day services?
      I don’t believe you can and think it’s best to leave it alone.
      
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      August 6, 2024 3:31pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Great post JD
        
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        August 6, 2024 10:40pm
- Debsta
  
  If only!
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:31am
kowtow

Assaults in courts seem to be happening more often .
No fear of consequences?

‘A violent outburst by an offender in court only seconds after he was sentenced left a Dunedin police officer with a broken cheekbone.’

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/crime/alleged-court-attack-broke-officers-cheekbone
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August 6, 2024 9:10am
- mawm
  
  Bring back ‘cuffs and leg irons!
  
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  August 6, 2024 6:46pm
Rusty

How come India with over a billion people and boasts of being a high tech country hardly ever wins many medals at the Olympics?

Is cricket the only sport they are interested in?
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August 6, 2024 9:15am
- Libertarians are right
  
  Shooting, weight lifting and hockey as well.
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:29am
- James Stephenson
  
  They knocked the GB Hockey boys out in the QF, so not just cricket, maybe just games with wooden sticks?
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:32am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It has been debated for decades. No infrastructure, no organisation, no organised organisation of talent.
  
  Think of a scenario. A 14 year old boy in a New Zealand shool starts winning school athletics competitions in amazing times. He will be picked up by the system.
  
  In India, he will be a novelty who will leave school and go work in a call centre.
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:40am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    Generalisation much?
    
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    August 6, 2024 9:42am
  - Jake Dee
    
    In China they would be picked up by P.E. talent spotters in junior or middle school and then funneled into special programs.
    Check out the biography of the Chinese basketball champion Yao Ming. His mother was an exceptionally tall basketball champion, and his father was an exceptionally tall basketball champion, and they met in a basketball college.
    It’s not as if they actually have an official breeding program for basketball champions of exceptional height. What they have is an official sports development program that just incidentally happens to also function as a breeding program for basketball champions of exception height.
    
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    August 6, 2024 10:37am
  - imalwaysright
    
    “It has been debated for decades”
    By whom, and for how many decades?
    
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    August 6, 2024 11:26am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I am sure that you can do your own research if you want to do that.
      
      This study has many citations. Fill your boots.
      
      https://www.routledge.com/Success-and-Failure-of-Countries-at-the-Olympic-Games/Reiche/p/book/9780815357278
      
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      August 6, 2024 11:49am
      - imalwaysright
        
        No, you do your research and justify your statement.
        Even your link contradicts your own statement:
        
        “This book fills a long-standing gap in literature on the Olympics and will provide valuable insights for all students, scholars, policy makers and journalists interested in the Olympic Games and the wider relationship between sport, politics, and nationalism.”
        
        Don’t make things up and then try to fob people off with ill researched web links.
        
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        August 6, 2024 12:30pm
- mandk
  
  Neeraj Chopra won the men’s javelin at the last Olympics.
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:56am
- imalwaysright
  
  Rusty
  I think it now comes down to access to equipment , facilities, and coaching.
  Hard to be a good swimmer or track and field athlete without a pool and a stadium.
  Note also that most athletes interviewed at the games come across as very middle class and many are attatched to university sports programs.
  India could probably dominate world sports if there was a will to do it. Very capable people generally .
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:10am
  - Rusty
    
    @imalwaysright — yes agree. As for other comments I didn’t say India doesn’t win any medals. I was going on their population /per medals ratio which should be better.
    
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    August 6, 2024 5:20pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Perhaps the predominantly vegetarian diet, with lower sources of protein, is not great for building athletic body types?
      
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      August 6, 2024 11:26pm
- Jake Dee
  
  Probably because central government hasn’t made it a strategic priority like China did back in the 90s.
  Also, probably less of a sporting tradition in some areas. Weightlifting and wrestling have deep cultural roots and shooting clubs are organized locally as part of the old warrior class traditions.
  Incidentally I have often thought that the old British upper-class is derived from their old history as mounted knights. Chivalry and Cavalry are direct cognates.
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:27am
- NothingLeft
  
  Average Indian is about 15cm shorter than average European. That presents a major disadvantage in most sports.
  
  Protein and calorie poor diets and endemic digestive diseases hurt children’s body and brain development – same as how 21st century westerners are 10-15cm taller and 7-10IQ points smarter than their 19th century ancestors. This stifles potential amongst majority of Indian population.
  
  And most sports are expensive to participate in, in time, money or facilities that a lot of Indians don’t have access to.
  
  As they get wealthier they will likely make more of a showing.
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:41am
  - rangitoto
    
    With Olympics, averages shouldn’t matter as the Indian population is still big enough that the are large numbers in the top tier of natural ability. In the case of IQ an example would be Srinivasa Ramanujan, who wasn’t at all from a wealthy background, largely self taught in mathematics and suffered ill health most of his life. Yet he was considered by Cambridge Professor Godfrey Harvy to be only comparable to Leonard Euler in ability. Harvey recounted the story of him visiting Ramanujan when he was seriously ill in Putney hospital – ‘ I had ridden in taxi cab number 1729 and remarked that the number seemed to me rather a dull one, and that I hoped it was not an unfavorable omen. “No”, he replied, “it is a very interesting number; it is the smallest number expressible as the sum of two cubes in two different ways.”‘.
    
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    August 6, 2024 1:52pm
  - Jack5
    
    NothingLeft’s …Average Indian is about 15cm shorter than average European …
    
    But with a population of 1.4 billion, India still has a lot of tall people.
    
    Some of us remember, from early post-colonial days, the tall, powerful-looking Sikh door men outside the top hotels in places like Hong Kong.
    
    Also, people from the north of India tend to be taller and more solidly built than people from the south of India.
    
    https://www.shoutlo.com/articles/differences-between-north-india-and-south-india
    
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    August 6, 2024 5:31pm
- cmm
  
  A lot comes down to priorities.
  
  Chances are that most Indians have a lot more on their minds than the rather pointless difference between running 100 metres in 9.7 seconds vs 9.8 seconds.
  
  When a third of the population is shitting in the streets then the Olympics is an expensive waste of time.
  
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  August 6, 2024 3:03pm
Southern Raider

So Ngapuhi went to Parliament to air their grievances on section 7A

They raised how 800 of their children would be impacted

Did they not think the better discussion would not be what are the colour of foster parents of the 800 children but why are 800 children from their Iwi in state care instead of able to be loved, safe and cared for by their birth parents?

Always seems the focus is on grievances and ambulance at the bottom of the cliff as opposed to any real leadership
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August 6, 2024 9:21am
- Blog-aholic
  
  I get the idea that irony is not strongly understood withing the Ngapuhi hierarchy………..or is that higher-anarchy?
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:44am
  - H. Upmann
    
    Irony…..more like hypocrisy.
    
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    August 6, 2024 12:12pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  I don’t know what 7A is, but I presume this alleged impact on 800 children as a result of it would generally be to their benefit.
  
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  August 6, 2024 12:46pm
  - Southern Raider
    
    May not have the correct clause number but it’s the part of the Oranga Tamariki act where maori children can only be put with maori adults
    
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    August 6, 2024 12:59pm
- PurplePen
  
  They’re one of several North Island tribes that keep their people oppressed. Its the same tribes that make up all the bad social and life expectancy stats. None of this in lower North Island nor South Island Maori.
  
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  August 6, 2024 5:32pm
Maggie Pie

You would have to wonder where Mark Mitchell is with all this 🙁

People are asking…. “What has become of NZ POLICE?”

https://x.com/2ETEKA/status/1820022026033360937

(Would be interesting to know what the ‘Deputy PM’ thinks as well)
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August 6, 2024 9:56am
- Jack5
  
  Wow! Is that correct about Ronan-Rhona Stace’s role in the release on bail of the stalker-murderer Akshay Chand, who then killed Christie Marceau?
  
  And what happened to Akshay Chand? After being found insane and thus not guilty, he was remanded to a secure hospital. Is he still held?
  
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  August 6, 2024 1:03pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    YIP! All good questions Jack…..
    Do you know how to lodge an OIA request.?
    
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    August 6, 2024 1:17pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Child homicide rates for Māori and non-Māori

Between 1978 and 1987 the rates were very similar. However, between 1991 and 2000 there was a significant increase in the deaths of Māori children and a slight decrease for non-Māori children.

https://teara.govt.nz/en/graph/29237/child-homicide-rates-for-maori-and-non-maori

What changed?
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August 6, 2024 9:56am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  …”significant increase”…as in more than doubled
  
  No doubt the blame will be attributed to the National govt (Ruthanasia) policies of the time & the legacy of Rogernomics…as if that’s any excuse.
  
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  August 6, 2024 10:08am
  - peterwn
    
    And colonisation etc, etc, etc.
    
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    August 6, 2024 1:34pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Easy welfare destroyed the nuclear family amongst lower socio economic groups, getting worse with every generation after introduction of DPB in mid 70’s that removed steadying male influences from so many boys lives.
  
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  August 6, 2024 11:16am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    It would be interesting to know what % of gang members were children of the DPB.
    
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    August 6, 2024 8:12pm
- mawm
  
  Maggy – methamphetamine use.
  
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  August 6, 2024 6:55pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  The mass redundancies under Rogernomics probably got the ball rolling. Jobless working class is a recipe for nasty outcomes all around.
  
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  August 6, 2024 7:31pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350368677/ageing-cook-strait-power-cables-due-replacement-should-transpower-get-better-one
I hope they don’t employ the nut-removers to do the job….
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August 6, 2024 10:39am
- peterwn
  
  Well, there was a claim that when the original cables were installed, the cable laying ship pulled too hard on the cables at Oteranga Bay (the NI terminal at Makara) and this pulled over several pylons on the line to Haywards. So a report on the matter to Treasury apparently stated.
  There is nothing unusual with the work Transpower is doing. The cables have been replaced once if not twice previously and given the rather hostile submarine environment they operate in. So Transpower want to be on top of the game and not be caught with its pants down. Since an upgrade seems to be possible it is not unreasonable to factor this into the studies. It could turn out that an upgrade is not physically or economically possible, or if it is whether it is economically useful in the context of Transpower’s system architecture (as Transpower calls it). So it is not really ‘news’.
  
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  August 6, 2024 1:31pm
  - rouppe
    
    1200 to 1400MW doesn’t sound like a big jump. If you’re going to do it, why not do it properly and go to 1700 or 2000?
    
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    August 6, 2024 4:30pm
    - kiwikidsnz
      
      Surely this planned Cook Strait transmission upgrade should have enough capacity for Manapouri / another hydro generator, not just existing + a little bit: if it’s supposed to cater for the next 40 years (eg. population doubled, EVs + zero natural gas/electricity conversions)
      
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      August 6, 2024 5:05pm
Jack5

A new, foreign dominated service industry for women has become established in NZ. It’s about nails, eyebrows, and the like.

Female posters on Kiwiblog, and families and friends of male posters, will likely have first-hand knowledge of this.

It’s in overseas developed countries, too, as this amusing short video illustrates:

https://youtube.com/shorts/CC1t_578fXs?si=FiypD5s5XHZ8X1IZ

Meanwhile, our NZ polytechnics are offering diploma and certificate courses in “beauty therapy”. This one promises:”You’ll also become capable of managing or owning your own beauty clinic.”

Against the overseas chains?

I vaguely remember reading that immigration rules for this industry were widened during the great and shameful mismanagement of the previous Government.

An example of NZ polytechnic courses:

https://www.ara.ac.nz/products/programme/nz3445-stru-new-zealand-diploma-in-beauty-therapy/
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August 6, 2024 11:18am
- rouppe
  
  This woman, aged 33, is terrified she is going to end up old and broke.
  
  But is spending large amounts on regular botox treatments.
  
  How completely unaware is that person?
  
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  August 6, 2024 4:26pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    A typical “women as perpetual victims” tone deaf feminist article.
    
    FFS she is 33. She is relatively young. Talking to a financial planner would probably be the thing to do.
    
    Oh and generally speaking women these days are faring better than men on most fronts (except maybe at the very top where it’s no place for whiners and activists).
    
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    August 6, 2024 7:37pm
Damocles11

New Zealand government debt is up 130% since the pre-COVID era. Lucky we have the Auckland cycle bridge, Auckland light rail, 10 new hospitals, and 100,000 Kiwibuild houses to show for all that spending. 🤦🏻‍♂️
NZ is broke and broken. Superannuation alone currently costs us $19.5 billion per year, and this will climb every year. Damien Grant has seen the writing on the wall, as any rational realist will have. The Leftists bray for pay rises for all and more money for health and education. Apparently poor school achievement is due to ‘child poverty’, so that seems to indicate ‘lunches in schools’ are a failure and state provided breakfast and dinner is also required. Council decree rate rises of on average 15% every year. Taxpayers & ratepayers are going the same way as the Moa: they are being ‘hunted to extinction’.
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August 6, 2024 11:40am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Oh come now, Damocles11, there’s always room for a laugh. Here’s Iowahawk with his analysis of how to Feed Your Family on $10 billion per day
  
  It’s a fun look at finding the money, without borrowing, to pay for one year of US government spending, looking at each revenue harvest package and calculating how many days into the year it buys you, from January 1st to December 31st.
  
  In 2011 when it was a mere $3.7 trillion per year.
  
  And he doesn’t mention the debt, which was only $14 trillion, with low interest rates.
  
  Trigger warning: there are some deaths involved.
  
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  August 6, 2024 12:24pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Well said Dam
  
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  August 6, 2024 12:34pm
Maggie Pie

Been closely following the ‘Eye-Doctors’ trial via the live blogs.

Finding it a bit strange that the Crown lawyers are referring to the deceased
as “Ms Hanna”, whereas the accused’s lawyer Ron Mansfield, refers to her as…..
“Mrs Polkinghorne”.
Odd eh?

The other thing that really struck me, was just how much Polky’s lawyer, looks sooo much like that pommie antique dealer Drew Pritchard from the TV show ‘Salvage Hunters’

https://1news.co.nz/2024/07/30/polkinghorne-trial-paramedics-describe-first-impressions-of-scene/

What do you reckon?
7 2
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August 6, 2024 11:41am
- peterwn
  
  Well, both Ron Mansfield and Drew Pritchard are in the salvaging business with Ron trying to salvage Dr Polkinghorne.
  
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  August 6, 2024 1:16pm
- Jake Dee
  
  The “Ms Hanna” vs “Mrs Polkinghorne” bit must be calculated. These barristers are professional wordsmiths, and a high-profile murder trial is their biggest stage, every phrase is carefully considered.
  My guess is the calculated consideration went something like this, if the deceased is “Ms Hanna” then that sounds like just some woman Phillip Polkinghorne was living with, kind of like a casual Defacto relationship.
  “Mrs Polkinghorne” sounds much more like the beloved wife of Dr. Polkinghorne, so he’s much less likely to kill her.
  
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  August 6, 2024 2:43pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Hmmm, that certainly makes a lot of sense given some of the witnesses still to be called. More than 60 I’ve been led to believe. Cant wait till they get thru all this scientific and forensic stuff…. it’s sooo boring.
    
    Jake you didn’t address my other question about Barrister Ron Mansfield’s doppelganger. Whats your reckons on that?
    
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    August 6, 2024 4:47pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      I haven’t seen that show, but I guess they could be distant cousins
      
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      August 6, 2024 11:36pm
MCōs

From RNZ news
Simone Biles had been hoping to win a fourth gold at these Games but a couple of mistakes meant she had to settle for silver behind the Brazilian.
However, the 27-year-old, who is the world’s most decorated gymnast, was far from disappointed and instead joined Chiles in showing admiration to Andrade in one of the fairly interesting images of these Games.
4 1
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August 6, 2024 12:06pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Here’s the image i s’pose you are referencing:
  
  https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/articles/ce9zz211zxno
  
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  August 6, 2024 12:55pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Blown away with the sequined bodysuit Simone wore during her routine 😛
  
  Although surprised to see on TikTok she claims to be ‘Trans’…..
  
  https://tiktok.com/discover/simone-biles-trans
  
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  August 6, 2024 1:09pm
Swifty

Germany versus Greece in the football, as only Python could do it;

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/7euLj2pr6FJC383m/?mibextid=UalRPS
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August 6, 2024 12:15pm
Swifty

“This is the effect of open borders and mass immigration.”

“Civil war is inevitable.”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13712183/Fury-grows-Elon-Musks-claim-civil-war-inevitable-PM-rows-billionaire-minister-says-online-hate-existential-threat-democracy.html
3 2
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August 6, 2024 12:41pm
- fernglas
  
  England managed to have a perfectly good Civil War of its own well before the era of mass migration. Perhaps it was a hangover from the colonisation by those pesky Normans?
  
  6 1
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  August 6, 2024 3:57pm
  - Mike
    
    And the American Civil War was caused by mass migration from Africa.
    
    2 2
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    August 6, 2024 5:15pm
  - greybeard
    
    I have been thinking about this recent trouble over the last couple of days.
    England ( in fact, the whole British Isles ) have been embroiled in violent, bloody warfare for about 3000 years !
    Why would we expect them to change ?
    Picts, Celts, Vikings, Romans, Crusaders, Neanderthals, Normans, the list goes on.
    English vs English, English vs Scot, Scot vs Welsh, Welsh vs English, Irish vs everyone: just let the game play out, I say.
    Equilibrium will eventually appear.
    
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    August 6, 2024 5:37pm
    - Mike
      
      Fair enough. The English have been the most warlike and greedy for conquest of any people to emerge so far on the planet.
      
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      August 6, 2024 6:24pm
sungsamning

Councils seem addicted to spending, DEI, and ESG. A number of groups are challenging them. Many with little success. I went to an interesting in Ferry mead on Sunday morning. It was for the above group. They’ve had some success. You can find them at: https://facebook.com/groups1264660404499165/, and at Telegram: https://t.me/CCDiscussions, and on icloud. challengingcouncils@icloud.com
The search function on FB should find them. They’re easy to find on Telegram. Not sure about icloud, as I don’t have an Apple device.
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August 6, 2024 12:54pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYp9kjkjda4
Chinese Man Arrested Trying To Give Trump Proof China Ordered The Assassination at MAGA Rally What!?
The Dems and Chÿna would gain significantly from removing DJT from the scene. The man is presently in custody in Florida.
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August 6, 2024 12:54pm
Southtop2

Curiosity Question: As they have the same parent company, Wesfarmers, does Bunnings NZ have the policies that Officeworks Australia has?
https://www.rebelnews.com/officeworks_under_fire_again_after_second_antisemitic_incident_is_exposed
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13706523/Officeworks-antisemitic-jew-palestine.html
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August 6, 2024 1:13pm
Maggie Pie

See where [Mod use her name] has an interesting question in The House today…..

9. Debs Ngarewa-Packer to the PM: Does he stand by all his actions and statements?

I was going to watch anyway, just to see if that nasty Labour list MP Shanan Halbert
from Northcote turns up for ‘work’.
After all, we’re paying him 4 grand a week! And to do what exactly?
8 5
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August 6, 2024 1:48pm
Pope Punctilious II

The Waitangi Tribunal continues to churn out nonsense. Apparently the government has violated the treaty by not giving sufficient support to kura kaupapa.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/manawatu-guardian/news/opinion-supporting-kura-kaupapa-maori-crucial-teanau-tuiono/UUYT7LV4BFCJFP5JICY3BBQP2E/
I’d thought that in kura kaupapa the kids learned all the regular subjects in Maori. But Teanau Tuiono talks up the “need” for Maori kids to get a load of maatauranga in these schools. Priceless knowledge, apparently.
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August 6, 2024 2:41pm
- rouppe
  
  I’m pretty sure that the Ministry of Education funds these schools just the same as any character school, if they can show it satisfies the need of the community.
  
  3 2
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  August 6, 2024 4:09pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    But you know how it is – it’s never enough for activists.
    
    4 1
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    August 6, 2024 8:10pm
Swifty

Methinks the Maritime Union guy speaks with forked tongue:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/524283/cancellation-of-ferry-replacement-could-cost-further-500m-union-says

He presents as caring about taxpayer money, but is silent on the massive forecast expenditure, not to mention massive cost blowouts, of his Labour mates’ Rolls Royce proposed solution.
8 1
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August 6, 2024 2:49pm
- Taieri
  
  There will be a cancellation clause in the contract with the yard, which will specify the cancellation cost. It will be a percentage of the contract value, but it certainly will not come to $500M. Especially, considering how advanced the construction is at the moment. It is not possible for anyone not privy to the details of the contract to estimate potential cancellation cost. Not even for the Maritime Union guy, he’s just playing politics.
  The birds are singing that the contract has not been cancelled yet anyway and that the parties are negotiating.
  
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  August 6, 2024 5:03pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Wait until they agree to build two if not three smaller ferries without all the bells and whistles and then everyone will be happy.
    
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    August 6, 2024 7:48pm
kiwikidsnz

Child bearing age women are still the Coalitions weak link & will decide the next election – why is that & what are they doing about it

Roy Morgan’s New Zealand Poll for July 2024 shows support for the National-led Government (National, ACT & NZ First) has increased marginally in July, up 0.5% points to 50%, increasing its lead over the Labour-Greens-Maori Party Parliamentary Opposition on 44% (down 1.5% points).

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/9643-nz-national-voting-intention-july-2024?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MRU%206th%20August%202024&utm_content=MRU%206th%20August%202024+CID_5488d9b14bf7a4571f4ca27471e6d989&utm_source=Market%20Research%20Update&utm_term=Read%20Full%20Article
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August 6, 2024 6:27pm
Quail

So now TV One reporters think they can write intergovernmental messages?
Two very arrogant reporters just bearded Paul Goldsmith and aggressively asked him why he used English and not Te Reo in an Australian communication.
These reporters should be sacked, the lack of respect for a Crown minister was disgusting.
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August 6, 2024 6:39pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Haha, Quail. Some of these reporters are not accustomed to “asking the hard questions” and “holding politicians to account” without a lot of bluff and bluster.
  They didn’t need to bother with any of that during the six years of the Labour government.
  They didn’t ask any questions or hold the powerful to account before and are having trouble getting the hang of it now.
  Easier to just pick a silly “ gotcha” subject that many people don’t care about, and try to ambush the minister into looking foolish.
  
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  August 6, 2024 9:53pm
Pope Punctilious II

I’d never thought much of Michael Laws, but this clip changes my view of him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5JiGvns0ws

At last a prominent right-wing figure has come out and said it – John Key was a bad prime minister, who never wanted to confront difficult issues. Laws also touched fleetingly on something that occurred to me a while ago when I heard Key say he would have voted for Trump – has Key started to lose his marbles? Key (globalist, progressive neoliberal) has precious little in common with Trump (populist, nationalist, pseudo-conservative).

The decision to invite Key to speak at the Nats conference was very unfortunate. The sooner the Nats distance themselves from Key, the better.
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August 6, 2024 8:06pm

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