About
Contact
Advertise

Facebook
Twitter

July 4, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 04 July 2024

Like this:

Like Loading...

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment267

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (267)

Login to comment or vote

Grunter

Google reports a 48% increase in their emissions since 2019 (due to increase in electricity needed for AI).

https://search.app/Bq98pPR1st1FAarv5

But they still say they are on track to be net zero by 2030. They are obviously using ‘Green Maths’ to make that claim.

It also shows that electric devices are not emissions free. So all those EV’s are burning fossil fuels.
43 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yep, the EVs are running on dirty Indonesian coal thanks to an idiot PM.
  
  43 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:36am
  - Ian Boag
    
    In 2023 something like 3% of NZ electricity was generated from coal.
    
    9 8
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 10:01am
    - wsk12345
      
      Indeed but every EV added in NZ is fuelled by coal as coal generation is what has spare capacity. Wind gens and hydros are already maximising the use of the wind and water.
      
      15 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 10:17am
      - jkt
        
        No.
        Most EV’s are charged at night.
        Only cheap skates buy EV’s.
        
        6 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:16am
      - wsk12345
        
        Jkt . Yes they charge them at night when hydro is the marginal type of generation. Then when the hydro would have been used had there not been that EV using the power at night, coal is used instead. So the use of coal generation is driven by the addition of new loads – including EVs.
        
        9 2
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:20pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Ignore him. He is just trying to be difficult.
        
        6 5
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:21pm
    - M.Solvent
      
      Arguably it’s electricity thirsty new technology like AI and EVs that have an outsized influence on pushing up electricity use at the margins, resulting in more coal use
      
      11 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 10:26am
      - jkt
        
        No, it is not.
        It is heating you home when it is cold and watching TV and preparing dinner and ……. that causes this and the lack of ripple control.
        
        But …. your argument is arguably a good theory.
        
        3 5
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:20am
      - wsk12345
        
        Jkt. It’s not a theory, it’s how it actually works in a hydro thermal system where there is lots of hydro capacity but not enough water storage.
        
        Every new load coming onto the system is driving the use of coal. If you replace a fin heater or two with a heat pump now you are reducing overall demand and thus coal use but if you add an EV you are increasing coal use.
        
        Go look into the hydro thermal optimisation models used in NZ. I can tel you they do exactly this.
        
        10 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:24pm
      - jkt
        
        WSK
        Your argument can only hold true if our hydro has peak load capacity.
        You and I both know that is not the case.
        
        So, I stand by my comment that your argument is arguably a good argument.
        
        0 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 3:26pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        @jkt: why on earth would you need to heat your home? We’ve had “global boiling” caused by the burning of fossil fuels rammed down our throats for the last year after decades of “global warming” and both are a massive con.
        
        Can’t have it both ways, old son.
        
        1 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 8:36pm
    - Grunter
      
      Ian, you need to apply incremental demand calculations to your thinking, not an average.
      
      In NZ, the majority of EV’s are plugged into the Auckland grid at night. That ‘incremntal demand’ at night is almost all being generated by Indonesian coal. No new hydro nor geothermal. Solar at night is obviously zero. Some wind power, except on a calm night when that is also zero.
      
      So if you own an EV in Auckland then you almost certainly are powering it on Indonesian coal.
      
      16 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 10:49am
      - wsk12345
        
        Actually load is low at night so will often use the more flexible hydro (on top of any mist run plant such as geothermal or combined cycle gas) but the effect of more coal use overall stands as the coal then replaces the daytime hydro that would otherwise have been used.
        
        6 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:26pm
      - jkt
        
        Cool.
        That should bring the cost of second hand EV’s down.
        
        3 2
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:34pm
- Damocles11
  
  So we have some pursuing ‘net zero by 2030’ while inexplicably China has the green light to keep *increasing* its emissions until 2030 (and we are already “boiling” and “the air is unbreathable” according to the hysterical Guterres). So in 6 years time the pot will have been ‘boiling’ away the whole time….we should all the cooked right(?) The Left don’t seem concerned, their only worry is that Western countries and Western companies comply with their haranguing and brow beating. China has 17.4% of the global population but uses (at least) 50.5% of the coal consumed annually. Seems fair, not. And in 2030 China will do what…..comply with whatever other nations say they must do? Fat chance. China does whatever is in its own national interests.
  National should never have signed New Zealand up to such a ridiculous farce as this ‘net zero’ nonsense.
  
  25 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 9:41am
  - Ian Boag
    
    China coal fired power? True.
    
    OTOH China is building more nuclear power stations than the rest of the world combined. They also dominate the world solar panel market by virtue of producing and awful lot of panels at prices the rest of the world cannot get close to.
    
    Go figure.
    
    6 14
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 10:04am
    - Damocles11
      
      They can build solar panels to their hearts content, but they are increasing their emissions and will be doing so for at least the next 6 years, and aren’t we already “boiling”? It’s like saying “yes, I am burning down our house, but on the plus side I am also building a fire engine”.
      
      16 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 10:11am
    - Grunter
      
      Ian, when you include the full life cycle scope 3 emissions of solar panels, plus add in the derogation caused by the rare earth mining required, it is apparent that solar is an environmental hazard.
      
      Solar is all part of the elaborate scam we are being fed. “Free energy from the sun” – sounds great until you do the actual numbers on it and look at the impact of mining rare earths.
      
      15 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 11:01am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Exactly. The only solar energy method that seems to have a benefit is black body passive solar panels that heat water.
        
        10 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:18am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        The solar panel manufacturing cycle repeats every 20 to 30 years.
        
        5 2
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:25pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        S.o
        20 to 30 years is optimistic if you are referring to the lifespan of a solar electric panel.
        Solar water panels would easily achieve that lifespan .
        
        4 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:39pm
      - Jack5
        
        Not just China still burning coal …
        
        Indonesia and the Philippines (population together about 400 million) generated 62 per cent of their electricity from coal in 2023.
        
        Indonesia, the world’s largest thermal coal exporter, announced on January 1 a month-long ban on coal exports to avoid domestic outages caused by low coal supplies. It partially lifted the ban on Jan 13 after Japan, South Korea and the Philippines lobbied against it.
        
        https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/coal-use-reaches-record-in-indonesia-and-philippines-endangering-climate-goals-study
        
        And:
        
        https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202201/20/WS61e8bd96a310cdd39bc82321.html
        
        5 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 2:51pm
    - Matt Long
      
      “They also dominate the world solar panel market by virtue of producing and awful lot of panels at prices the rest of the world cannot get close to.”
      Because they have cheap coal fired energy, go figure.
      Even your solar panels are coal fired.
      
      2 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 3:57pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    You must have missed the bit where China is ontrack with massive solar and wind farms and nuclear. To bring their 2030 target forward by 5 years.
    
    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/29/asia/china-solar-wind-energy-coal-climate-intl/index.html
    
    Its CNN so it must be true
    
    Of course any NZ gummint would never be able to perform against similiar targets due to the beuracracy and inefficencies of democracy.
    
    1 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 5:03pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      I’ll be looking forward to seeing that … checks calendar … just next year, Ra
      
      0 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 5:20pm
- all true
  
  All this climate stuff is a biggest scam the world has ever seen.
  Someone is thinking that the human being are able to control the climate, should be in the nuthouse.
  just this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbdp51O0J6Q
  
  31 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 9:42am
  - imalwaysright
    
    All true, all true.
    The thought that we can alter the temperature of a planet, in geological terms-instantaneously, is truly bizarre.
    
    16 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 10:15am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Did you ever consider mankind and the reduction in the ozone hole?
    Maxed out in 2007.
    
    https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/
    
    Some human intervention perhaps.
    Changing the gas in refrigerators and aerosols was a step in the process if memory serves.
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 5:07pm
- alloytoo
  
  E in EV stands for external combustion.
  
  15 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 9:44am
Cassandra

Really good that the Government is implementing its youth crime policy, the so-called boot camps (which they’re not) sensibly. NZDF involved at governance level and is training the OT staff and that’s it. This role is NOT one for a defence force; it is one for a justice department.
34 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  OT staff are going to enforce that discipline right?
  
  15 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:38am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Imagine the inhumane verbal and written warnings!
    They will be shaking in their boots…
    
    7 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 10:18am
Matt Long

Chris Bishop coming out with policy I agree on, let the market set the size of dwellings, small houses are better than cars or motel rooms. (Also better than tents and bridges)
And take urban/ rural boundary out of council hands.
Maybe at last we are seeing someone serious about fixing the cost of housing.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/government-to-flood-cities-with-more-housing-by-liberalising-planning-rules/K4LYY3G54BF5TIDRWTUEEOGYEU/
41 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:07am
- Scott
  
  I agree with National’s ideas. The market should be allowed to work. I would take away most of the regulations about rental properties as well. If a landlord has a very basic property that suits a very basic tenant at an affordable price that’s fine in my eyes. It’s a roof over their head and way better than living in a car.
  
  The other thing I would address is mass immigration. In the last 25 years we’ve gone from 3m to 5m population. Even here in Masterton we’ve gone from 20K to 25K. It puts pressure on infrastructure and is the main driver of house prices being unaffordable.
  
  45 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:17am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Although Labour flooded the country with immigrants over the last 6 years,
    I doubt many of them would have put any pressue on house prices.
    I’ve never met an Uber driver yet who lives anywhere near us. Just saying.
    
    21 16
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 8:33am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      You have no understanding at all of economics. Just saying.
      
      10 10
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 9:06am
      - imalwaysright
        
        I think she is being humorous.
        Probably a bit subtle for some here.
        
        20 2
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:21am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        imalwaysright,
        Maggie now has 12 downticks. 12 lefties born without a sense of humour! LOL they are so funny.
        
        10 3
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:29pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Its like watching kittens chewing each others ears…
        
        7 2
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:43pm
    - Damocles11
      
      They are living somewhere Maggie, do you agree?
      
      11 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 9:42am
      - Colville
        
        Dont be silly, those 250,000 people are all poor and dont live in houses !
        
        3 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 3:52pm
    - jkt
      
      Maggie Pie:
      
      Legalised squatting will be coming to a place near you.
      
      At least the shelter will need to comply with rules that may or may not be enforced!
      
      If it is granny that will live in the granny flat then the standards will be good. Who wants to put granny in a substandard shelter? Surely not any NZ’er that we know!
      
      7 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 10:06am
  - artemisia
    
    Exponential increase in the social housing waiting list.
    
    September 2017 – 5,844. Sep 2018 – 9,536. Sep 2019 13,966. Sep 2020 21,415. Sep 2021 24,546 …..
    
    What changed? Less affordable due to new costs and new rules around tenure and upgrades? Much more risk assessment by landlords due to those factors? Taxpayer funding hosepipe valve wide open? For starters.
    
    19 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 8:34am
    - Matt Long
      
      There’s a farmhouse next to us, empty for 5 years, perfectly habitable for the owner occupiers until an untimely death, but not up to rental standards.
      My house in fact is also not up to rental standards, I hope I don’t take the company of which I’m a director to the tenancy tribunal, real minefield there.
      
      34 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 8:46am
      - artemisia
        
        Two sound but basic cottages on the family farm, empty as uneconomic to upgrade to required rental standards. Close to an urban centre, previously in demand, cheap rent. Now storage. Too risky to rent out as is, as chance too high of the Tenancy Tribunal mandating many thousands in compensation to tenants.
        
        32 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 8:56am
      - wsk12345
        
        My place also does not meet rental standards. Warmest dryest house I’ve ever lived in though.
        
        17 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:21am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Artemisia,
        That illustrates the shortsightedness of bureaucrats trying to help fix something that isn’t broken.
        
        Every regulation that they implement raises the rent.
        
        21 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:27am
      - AitchW
        
        It’s a shame that tenants and landlords can’t sign a contracting out agreement in the same way that couples do. ( what Americans call a prenuptial agreement. )
        If a landlord can demonstrate that his tenants knew about the non-compliant features of a house and chose to put up with them in return for lower rent then the Tenancy Tribunal should have no cause to persecute him. But god forbid that adults be allowed to adult….
        
        6 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 6:11pm
    - Aquarius
      
      About 280,000 low income families rent, and 6 years ago around 70,000 from state agencies and 210,000 from private landlords
      So if you scare 10% of private sector landlords out of the market
      What could possibly go wrong
      Oh no….the state needs to find another 21,000 houses
      A government of unintended consequences ?
      
      14 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 8:56am
      - artemisia
        
        Recently bought a property in Wellington, had been a rental for decades. No longer in the rental market as is is rented to family so rules and big costs under the Residential Tenancies Act and Healthy Homes (Rentals only) don’t apply.
        
        In fact over time it will be upgraded to a high standard (including some sweat equity input and eventually inherited) but it will be our choice and our timing in relation to those rental laws.
        
        17 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:08am
      - Handyman
        
        It was not unintended.
        The intention all along is to have as many people as possible dependent on the state, and thus vote Labour.
        The key word is “dependent”. Any attempt to improve your situation by working overtime or upskilling will send you down the waiting list for a free house for life. Having more kids sends you up the waiting list; more so if the father is not around.
        Labour, while in opposition, will encourage every non homeowner to get on the waiting list (Be in to win) to embarrass National and create a housing “crisis”. Cue the Labour promise to build 100.000 houses.
        
        22 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:10am
  - artemisia
    
    Recently did some work on a 2 beddie flat in
    Wellington. 14 beds and mattresses. Some occupants there at the time. All young men who appeared to be recent immigrants.
    
    23 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 8:36am
    - kowtow
      
      I don’t believe you .
      
      If this was true John Designer Jeans Campbell would have done any number of “specials” , and Pack A Sad Gower “issues” likewise , to hold power to account you see .
      
      23 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 8:44am
    - sirknz
      
      Any idea as to which liquor chain or restaurant they were working for?
      
      13 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 9:18am
      - Colville
        
        Petrol station, probably Caltex.
        
        2 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 3:53pm
    - Handyman
      
      The trouble with the New Zealand immigration policy is that we treat all immigrants like refugees.
      We take in thousands of immigrants to improve THEIR lives. Instead, we should be taking in immigrants to improve OUR lives.
      
      The current system is:
      Immigrants work harder in jobs avoided by workshy New Zealanders.
      Good employers are happy; they prefer immigrants who have a work ethic.
      (Green party employers obviously like the ability not to pay)
      Indolent New Zealanders are happy because life is not too bad on the recently increased dole and living in the free house.
      
      Actual workers, even on low incomes, are taxed more to pay the indolent.
      All taxpayers suffer lack of basic services, eg schools, hospitals etc.
      
      What has to happen to change the system?
      
      19 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 12:44pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Good post
        
        2 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 5:25pm
    - GJM
      
      Seen the smae thing with one of the dogbox apartments in Hobson St in Auckland. Mattresses in every room adn the lounge on the floor. Occupants were asian, as was the owner. Safety and maintainance wasn’t a strong point.
      
      3 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 4:24pm
  - cmm
    
    ” It puts pressure on infrastructure and is the main driver of house prices being unaffordable.”
    
    Nope, not really.
    
    You will notice that there are adequate supermarkets. More have been built.
    
    The real problem is government interference of two forms:
    1) Controlling housing “quality” to the point where it is now. This drives up prices of new builds, as well as making retro-fitting extremely expensive.
    2) Controlling the land supply, preventing the build out of cheaper dwellings.
    
    14 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 9:36am
    - Damocles11
      
      Supermarkets? Turn it up. We are talking about schools, hospitals, water infrastructure, roading. The one hospital in my area is totally swamped, the local GP has been on TV talking about how inundated they are. It is a fallacy that you can just move people into an area without negative consequences. We probably need another hospital here, but these things cost billions. Who will pay? The real estate agents? The property developers? Fat chance. Taxpayers and ratepayers are already being reamed out by central and local government as it is. This is nothing more than ‘privatise the profits, socialise the losses’. Many immigrants from poor countries will have complex health needs, especially as they age. We are already thousands of healthcare professionals short.
      
      16 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 9:48am
      - artemisia
        
        The big new North Shore hospital building is ready but can’t get or pay for staff, except for reassigning them from other parts of the hospital leading to closures there.
        
        So construction of the infrastructure happened just fine. Where was the plan to resource it?
        
        8 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 1:00pm
      - Handyman
        
        Quite right. Infrastructure is inelastic.
        Consider the effect of family reunification policy on the health ecosystem.
        Say 20% of NZ population was born overseas. Most of these have parents retiring in their birth country, especially within Asia.
        Being rational they will want to come to New Zealand while their health is good because they must wait 10 years to access free NZ health system.
        This is exacerbated by the China one child policy. The one child, in NZ will be under pressure to invite one or both parents to New Zealand to reunite the family.
        
        70% of immigrants have settled in Auckland. The coming wave of old people having been here for ten years, added to the wave of New Zealand citizens aging, will inundate the Auckland hospitals.
        
        Labour borrowed $100 billion to respond to a health crisis. It would have been good if they spend one of those billions on a new hospital.
        
        11 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 1:05pm
      - Damocles11
        
        It’s all brainless short term thinking: “we need to juice GDP figures and suppress labour costs, so we are doing this”….no thought about all the rest of the equation, no thought given to the law of unintended consequences.
        
        2 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 4:56pm
    - Scott
      
      Cmm, if we were still 3m population would house prices be where they are now. I agree the factors you are talking about have an effect. But are they sufficient to account for housing being unaffordable for many many people?
      
      It seems to me if you go from 3m to 5m in 20 years then all those new people need housing and that’s going to affect demand which puts a massive upward pressure on prices?
      
      13 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 9:52am
      - cmm
        
        Raw population is not the only issue, but rather the number of households due to the changes in demographics.
        
        I suspect the number of empty-nesters has increased a lot and family size is down in the last 30 years with many more single people too.
        
        For example, if I look at the cluster of the ten closest houses to where I live, 9 of the 10 are occupied by either a single person or a couple. The average house size is 4 bedrooms, of which only one is being used (except has hobby rooms or home offices). Only one of those 10 is using 3 bedrooms (two late teens).
        
        This has likely driven down the efficiency of housing utilisation, driving up the amount of housing required for the same number of people
        
        This has likely driven up the amount of housing required per million people. Thus housing demand has been driven up more than the 3M to 5M increase would suggest.
        
        11 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:01am
      - thirteenstars
        
        It’s certainly all three, and the thing that binds them all is they are a result of very bad government policy, over many decades by every party in power, and the powers delegated by central to local government.
        
        Make stupid laws, get stupid results.
        
        I have already heard the NIMBYs on radio this morning anticipating Bishop’s announcement complaining about the loss of sunlight and the extra people who will be living in their area.
        
        Yet these are the same people who were very happy, election after election, to vote for Green policies that ringfenced our cities restricting the supply of land to the point where demand quickly outstripped supply. Now they moan. Well, tough. Take it as a bloody lesson in being careful what you vote for because the regulation that makes your life better and harms others will eventually be turned upon you.
        
        Of all three factors it’s definitively land supply that has caused the problem. A mere five million people in a country 10% larger than the UK where 65 million live. Compare nice homes in nice neighbourhoods in large cities all across the US and the prices will stagger. Here’s one in sunny Florida, a state only 2/3 the size of NZ with 22 million people:
        
        https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/48-NE-1st-Ave-Williston-FL-32696/45645243_zpid/
        
        Massive section. The mortgage is only $1,500/month. Imagine how much spare income that gives the owner to do other things instead of struggling for years just to pay the basic bills. It’s about 25% of the average NZ house price, which effectively means a 60-year-old ex-state house in Blockhouse Bay. What would you rather have?
        
        10 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:15am
      - jkt
        
        Scott
        
        2024 – 1974 = 50 years.
        20 = 50 wrong.
        Hyperbole = correct.✅
        
        7 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:44pm
    - artemisia
      
      Mr Hosking this morning mentioned some info he received about the cost of a new build compared to a new KO build. One started with 4 psqm, the other with 7.
      
      Maybe the KO Board did not notice. The Board did notice the English KO report might have had some incorrect information, in their view, so should be consigned to the round file. Stat.
      
      10 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 10:19am
      - Colville
        
        Yip KO pays twice as much for the build and that is on top of overpaying for the land and then all their office costs go on top of that.
        
        2 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 4:00pm
  - Damocles11
    
    3 million to 5 million, and has the critical infrastructure building been at a level where it can meet the needs of the additional 2 million people? Of course not. They can build houses – many of them ‘shoe boxes’ – to accomodate the influx, and they can build new supermarkets and petrol stations, but the need is for new hospitals, schools, roading, police stations and police, doctors, nurses, teachers to meet the needs of 2 million additional people + our ageing population.
    
    9 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 9:53am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      New Zealand reached 3 million in 1973 and 4 million in 2003. It then reached 5 million in 2020. It was the Key Government that turbo charged immigration after the GFC.
      
      New Zealand needs immigration. Otherwise the population would rapidly shrink and age. The question is “how many and what type”?
      
      At the top end New Zealand’s main competitor is Australia. That is a tough ask for New Zealand. At the bottom end, we have a flood of folk from India and the Phillipines who somehow get here to work as chefs or in petrol stations. Or liquor stores. There are too many of these. But the flip side is that you can’t get folk to take low end jobs, particularly in rural areas. We have about 100,000 people who are actually or practically unemployable.
      
      Complex business. 🙁
      
      18 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 10:17am
      - Scott
        
        We need immigration? Do we?
        What if we capped our population at 5m or so and kept it there. Would that be so bad?
        
        At the moment we have unaffordable housing, Auckland is full, massive pressure on infrastructure and some social unrest due to ethnic tensions.
        
        Why not stop the flood of immigrants. Let NZ have a breather. Let housing be affordable again.
        Here’s the question – maybe Winston was right?
        
        10 2
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:35am
      - Local Miller
        
        It’s a fallacy that Indian immigrants get her to work as chefs or in petrol stations. I’m in IT, and our relatively small company have several excellent technical staff from India, some in relatively senior positions. From my previous job I know 3 or 4 more Indians in IT. Their spouses (some male, some female) aren’t in the chef, petrol, uber driver space either.
        
        13 2
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:40am
      - Damocles11
        
        How many of them are ‘unemployable’ because they are older, or considered ‘overqualified’, and employers can write them off knowing they can source younger, cheaper labour from the 3rd world? It’s not really helping our economy because people thrown on the scrapheap will now be collecting benefits and a drain on the taxpayer, while the employer gets to perpetuate our ‘low wage’ economy. How can you create tightness in the labour market if you have an endless pool of labour only a flight away?
        
        7 3
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:47am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Agree LM. I know a number of Indian & Filipino migrants – as well as Chinese & Korean – who are hard working & are prepared to take on the menial jobs and work their way up. They are in the main happy & courteous people.
        It’s a pity a portion of our – shall we say non immigrant population did not have the same attributes.
        
        12 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:54am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I was not suggesting that all or even most Indian migrants work in petrol stations.
        
        5 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:05am
      - cmm
        
        “. Otherwise the population would rapidly shrink and age.”
        
        That’s not a problem per se and is far better than jamming the place full of low quality immigrants.
        
        In many ways what we’re getting is far worse:
        * The high quality people (graduates etc) who have options are fleeing the country because it is too expensive to buy houses (as well as many other issues).
        * We’re being flooded by low quality immigrants.
        
        This is the worst of both worlds.
        
        9 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:08am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “We need immigration? Do we?
        What if we capped our population at 5m or so and kept it there. Would that be so bad?”
        
        Even if we capped the population, we would need immigration. The fertility rate is way below replacement level. And declining.
        
        https://theconversation.com/nz-is-changing-faster-than-the-census-can-keep-up-the-4-big-trends-to-watch-230537#:~:text=Fertility%20continues%20to%20decline&text=In%20March%202024%2C%20the%20rate,at%20around%20the%201.6%20rate.
        
        Then there is the continuing exit of people to Australia and elsewhere.
        
        6 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:09am
      - waikatosinger
        
        Unaffordable housing is the main reason young people find it hard to start families.
        
        11 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:29am
      - Damocles11
        
        Here we have a vicious cycle….immigrants come in and compete with locals for jobs (downward pressure on waged) and locals for houses (upward pressure on rents and property prices)…..younger locals then leave…..”hey, we need more immigrants to prop up the economy and because our population growth is declining!”……. immigrants come in and compete with locals for jobs (downward pressure on waged) and locals for houses (upward pressure on rents and property prices)…..younger locals then leave…..”hey, we need more immigrants to prop up the economy and because our population growth is declining!”…….
        
        10 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:06pm
      - Jack5
        
        The post of Local Miller (10.40 post): …It’s a fallacy that Indian immigrants get her to work as chefs or in petrol stations ..
        
        Strange how many are working in petrol stations, and in the food business.
        
        IT studies have been a central part of NZ’s student-visa rort, which at its peak had Asian companies setting up colleges here to take part in the residency sales industry.
        
        A teacher of IT classes in one told me that 90 per cent of his students had no intention of going into IT. They had other ambitions, typically real estate, perhaps with an intermediary path of whiteware retailing or door-knocking for electricity companies.
        
        They might have been wise, with artificial intelligence threatening to “mechanise” much IT coding work.
        
        Asia is awash with home-educated graduates. The source linked to below says 40 per cent of India’s university graduates under the age of 25 are unemployed.
        
        Billions of Third Worlders want to move into developed countries. It’s an immigrant-takers’ market.
        
        Our politicians, the politicians of a country with falling relative wealth (we’re down to 41st in the world by GDP per capita), tell us NZ needs heavy migration. The exception I know of is NZ First’s Shane Jones.
        
        Migrant doctors and nurses are doing great work in health, but too many migrants fuel the “gig economy” – they fill flexible, temporary, or freelance jobs.
        
        We don’t have enough NZ born to sustain the country because the “gig economy” and unaffordable housing have all but wiped out steady, one-job families that have raised our children.
        
        https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2024/05/23/young-graduates-in-india-are-disenchanted-by-lack-of-opportunities_6672485_19.html
        
        14 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:29pm
      - Colville
        
        Bene.
        
        Any facts to support that Key turbocharged immigration?
        
        My recollection is that he just stopped people going offshore.
        
        1 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 4:02pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Let housing be affordable again.
        
        Let the price fall. Current owners would love that – not.
        
        Anyway this fire has been fuelled over time by lower and lower deposits, cheaper and cheaper loans, a few freebies like the First Home grant and the ability to rat Kiwisaver plus interest deductibilty for investors. All fuel for the fire.
        
        When I first bought a house in the mid-1970’s it cost 3 year’s income. That same house here in PN sold recently for what would be 7 year’s income for someone with the same job I had at the time.
        
        Immigration hasn’t helped but there are a whole lot of other factors.
        
        2 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 4:26pm
  - jkt
    
    Scott:
    
    We need some minimum standards.
    
    Unfettered squatting should not be allowed and people should not be allowed to sleep on the streets.
    
    So, on top of minimum standards, we also need places where agencies can place the homeless.
    
    7 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 9:59am
    - cmm
      
      Sure, minimum standards are fine, but they should be far lower than what they are now.
      
      11 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 11:09am
      - jkt
        
        Many argue that size does not matter.
        Yet, size does matter and makes for more affordable housing.
        
        5 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:29am
  - Bridgenag
    
    The blokes at bowls thinks all new migrants should pay something for the infrastucture….like a golf club Pay to join
    
    5 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 2:01pm
- cmm
  
  The other part of “let the market decide” is to stop restricting land use and controlling the supply of residential land.
  
  If the market wants to redirect cheaper farmland to use for housing then let it.
  
  11 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 9:03am
  - jkt
    
    We need law and order, property rights, the right to free speech and care where care is needed.
    
    10 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 10:02am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Jkt for prime minister
      
      6 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 10:36am
      - jkt
        
        Crazy, right?
        
        7 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:32am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Not if you mean it !
        
        3 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:47pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  But National are still canning the medium density residential standards. They want more houses, but they don’t want to upset their voters in places like Remuera and Khandallah. They want the new housing somewhere else.
  
  8 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 9:49am
  - artemisia
    
    The large Sleepyhead ‘çompany town’ development at Ohinewai has struck delay after delay, not to mention cost. Still can’t proceed as Huntly wastewater plant is non compliant. Even though this particular issue has been on the table since the Sleepyhead project first started.
    
    Shane Jones, come on down …..
    
    10 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 10:30am
    - waikatosinger
      
      Wastewater is the councils fallback if they can’t restrict new building. They’ll block you by stopping you connecting to the sewer.
      
      10 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 11:32am
      - imalwaysright
        
        NZ is like a box of magnets. It will always tend to its lowest state of energy.
        
        6 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:50pm
- Paulus
  
  But it is another good policy by which the Media Party, Unions, Labour and TPM can slam the Government.
  Everything the elected Government does is wrong in their eyes and media.
  
  9 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 11:04am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Yes, and what gets me they keep saying this is not the change people voted for, yet day after day, they are either canning Labour bullshittery, or delivering what they said they would.
    
    7 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 11:30am
Matt Long

The poor chap at NIWA who had to sacrifice his weekends to test drive the latest Dodge Rams, our public servants really do go the extra mile. Such noble sacrifice.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/why-niwa-was-nervous-about-buying-large-american-ute/
26 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:10am
- Hugh Jarse
  
  They may have been more comfortable in a large Chinese SUV perhaps ?
  
  13 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:23am
Souvlaki

Sadly for NZ…this article is TRUE🫤.
We have to confront National MPs over this imo.
Unless we address the flagrant racial inequalty in the law….those responsible for the most dysfunction, afforded the greatest advantage & fawning privilage…why WOULD any aspirational & intelligent person choose to setlle here??
Better ” management” helps sure, but ultimately, wont cut the mustard in the end!

https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/07/professor-robert-macculloch-1st-year.html?m=1
27 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:11am
- pdm
  
  Peter Williams and The Taxpayers Union have more on that as it applies to the Fast Track Legislation which is being worked on.
  
  https://nominister.wordpress.com/2024/07/02/coalition-government-the-same-as-the-thrown-out-labour-government-on-co-governance/
  
  Co-Governance is still in vogue.
  
  32 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:23am
  - Souvlaki
    
    Exactly as Williams says…WTF is going on? Are we mostly ‘brain dead’ here?
    
    31 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 8:33am
    - kowtow
      
      Plunket , good interview with Shane Jones this morning.
      
      This goes back years and the Nats are donkey deep .
      
      ( yeah I know it’s Jonsey and NZF( formerly Labour) , but it does shed some light)
      
      14 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 8:47am
      - jkt
        
        Government govern for all, not just for their supporters.
        
        Select committee ……. Make a submission. Tax Payer Union makes it easy to be heard.
        
        Just click and submit.
        
        5 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:36am
    - Paulus
      
      No, the Media Party who hate everything this Government does should be totally defunded as soon as possible, then people can make up their own minds.
      I have cancelled all our so called Newspapers and will miss the 6pm bent News programmes.
      
      10 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 11:07am
- Grunter
  
  MacCulloch is one academic that makes a lot of sense. The way he describes Luxon is bang-on.
  
  “Yet across all spheres of government, Luxon is looking more like a PM who accepts rules and tries to up performance, taking those rules as given. In other words, he is turning out to look more like someone who is comfortable managing, and less like someone who is comfortable governing.”
  
  Luxon won’t change the rules on Health, Education, and Superannuation. They will all continue to be Govt monopolies funded by some taxpayers. They will all continue to create sub-optimal outcomes (all monopolies do, Govt monopolies are the worst).
  
  And he will not change the Treaty back to the 1840’s version as Seymour proposes.
  
  16 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:54am
  - peterwn
    
    First priority is to get NZ back on track. Then start changing rules.
    
    6 6
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 10:01am
    - Damocles11
      
      What does ‘back on track’ mean? So we can head down the wrong track (i.e. keep going under the wrong rules) and that means we are ‘back on track’? Make it make sense.
      
      10 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 10:19am
      - peterwn
        
        Well, Chris and Nicola are quite clear what it means. Firstly get spending under control then push changes for things that do not require legislation. Also pass the barest minimum of legislation to facilitate getting things back on track (legislation is time consuming to arrange and too much urgency backfires). If David Seymour was Prime Minister he would almost certainly adopt the same approach. Remember too that there is an awful big chunk of ‘centre’ votes out there that could go either way. Chris Hipkins and his team are spending two weeks (school holidays) in Auckland trying to chase that vote no doubt telling lots of little fibs about National, so National (and ACT) need to be wide awake to this.
        
        8 5
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:41pm
    - Taieri
      
      First priority is to get NZ back on track. Then start changing rules.
      ————-
      
      You can’t get NZ back on track under the current rules.
      
      13 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 10:44am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      That’s how the Key government worked, and by the time they’d got things “back on track” they were out of power and Labour was able to get in and simply push things further left – as they will after 2029 or 2032.
      
      But don’t tell me: Key’s government was elected three times so it’s all good.
      
      13 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 11:50am
    - rouppe
      
      Right…
      
      I’ve been in a few large organizations, and every time I heard a senior manager say “we need to do this first, and then we can look at that”, looking at “that” never happened.
      
      Not once.
      
      10 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 1:06pm
  - Paulus
    
    Seymour only wants the Geoffrey Palmer Principles of the Treaty to be spelt out.
    Don’t we all ?
    
    10 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 11:09am
  - jkt
    
    You want a dictator or a PM.
    We had a dictator and she turfed herself out when she ran out of ideas.
    
    Once in government you are supposed to govern for all NZ’ers. Float an idea, develop a Bill, discuss, put Bill up, debate, vote, promulgate a law …. enforce, defend, amend or repeal the Law.
    
    10 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 11:48am
- Damocles11
  
  Read the comments below the article and you will see the disgust that many people now feel about Luxons approach. He is a ‘corporate manager’, and that’s where it begins and ends. Moreover, his view of his fellow New Zealanders is pompous and elitist: the Iwi hierarchy, James Shaw, the bankster elite….these are examples of fellow ‘A listers’. Me, you, and Uncle Tom Cobbley are ‘C listers’. But it is the collective votes of the C listers that determine which political party is strongest and Luxon would do well to remember that.
  
  13 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 10:17am
  - peterwn
    
    You will find in due course that he is perfectly well aware of this. He will have a better grip on things than the armchair critics who infest Kiwiblog.
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 6:46pm
- Philview
  
  The polls indicate a fine margin in terms of this being a one term government. I am anticipating the most extreme government in our lifetime coming to power in 2026 and consequently the end of New Zealand as a liberal democracy.
  
  12 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 10:19am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Are you telling me that level headed voters are going to flock to a regime that has criminal greens and corrupt TPM MPs in cabinet, I have more faith in people to decide if they want that or kick that possibility into touch
    
    6 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 11:35am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I have more faith in people to decide if they want that or kick that possibility into touch
      
      I lack your faith.
      
      I saw how quickly NZers of all shapes, sizes and hair colour willingly complied with unscientific and unkind laws.
      
      11 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 1:07pm
      - Bridgenag
        
        To follow the herd most NZ’ers comply even if the truth slaps them in the face….
        
        3 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 2:06pm
Maggie Pie

NewsHub breakfast host Lloyd Bur talks with TodayFM’s Carly Flynn about his dramatic weight loss…..

LISTEN:

https://twitter.com/LloydBurr/status/1506101414426443779
5 11
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:11am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I’ll skip it. Thanks though. 😅
  
  37 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:23am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I can honestly say I’ve never ever met a [Mod – see below message]
    
    11 9
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 8:37am
    - MCōs
      
      You may not be aware that referring to a Chinese person in that way is considered offensive
      
      6 14
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 9:01am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        What about [Mod – what about you start thinking about how you write your posts or take a holiday]
        
        13 8
        Report
        July 4, 2024 9:12am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        The moderators will be along any minute now. Happens daily. 😃
        
        It is offensive because it was used in a derogatory way to describe Asians who settled in New Zealand, Australia and North America a century ago. Children chanted songs about mutilating a “Chinaman”.
        
        I have never heard the term used in contemporary New Zealand.
        
        16 5
        Report
        July 4, 2024 9:13am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Maggie it is not the fat reference. As you are aware.
        
        12 2
        Report
        July 4, 2024 9:14am
      - Taieri
        
        I have never heard the term used in contemporary New Zealand
        ———
        
        There’s Chinaman Flat Road near Beaumont in Otago.
        Also Chinamans Flat just off Glenorchy-Paradise Road.
        
        5 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:46am
      - imalwaysright
        
        “The moderators will be along any minute now..”
        
        What about accepting someone may offend you and then you can tell us why they are wrong?
        Why do you need a moderator to intervene ?
        We are all adults here.
        
        7 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:30am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “There’s Chinaman Flat Road near Beaumont in Otago.”
        
        And how long ago was that named?
        
        Chinese generally have better things to do than run around demanding that place names be changed because they are offensive, or racist, or something. Unlike some other folk who never stop demanding that history be rewritten.
        
        I don’t think that the place names you cite should be changed. You can’t rewrite history. That is a far cry from referring to someone today as a “Chinaman”.
        
        7 2
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:37am
      - Taieri
        
        And how long ago was that named?
        ————–
        
        Not sure when, probably in the XIX century, during the gold rush years. Lots of Chinese miners worked in that area then.
        
        There’s some talk about changing it a while ago.
        I agree with you, historical names should be retained.
        
        As for the word itself, there’s a certain Chinese owned company in Wellington, which ceased trading about 20 years ago. The owner of this company was commonly referred to by his workers as “the Chinaman”. As far as I know it wasn’t derogatory, just a figure of speech.
        
        7 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:14pm
      - jkt
        
        It is called a ChineseGentleMan’s these days Maggie.
        Get with the programme.
        
        3 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 1:01pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “What about accepting someone may offend you and then you can tell us why they are wrong?”
        
        I don’t have an issue with being offended. My comment re the moderators coming along was just a statement of fact, not me calling for them to intervene. I was simply pointing out that the moderators tend to remove racist comments. I don’t make the blog rules.
        
        9 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 1:11pm
      - peterwn
        
        People were whipping up racism in this way as far back as 1905 when a diligent law abiding Chinese man was shot dead in Haining St Wellington. His only ‘crime’ was his race. The murderer was declared ‘insane’ and held at the Seacliff asylum for the rest of his life. Probably he should have swung on the end of a rope at the Terrace Gaol.
        
        2 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 5:03pm
      - Jack5
        
        Ethnic slurs vary in offensiveness with time.
        
        NZ place names with the word “Chinaman” probably survive from decades before the word became offensive.
        
        Wikipedia has a swathe of offensive ethnic terms (first link below), and New Zealand is mentioned in several of them. New Zealanders aren’t the only people slandered as “sheep-shaggers”.
        
        Comedy is one way to draw the teeth of an ethnic slur, as by the brothers Theodore and Nathan Saidden, with their Superwog series on Youtube (a sample in second link below). This de-fangs the ethnic slur “Wog”.
        
        Ethnic slur list:
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs
        
        Superwog brothers:
        https://youtu.be/2CvDQYzoS3g?si=DMEqX4sTzA4toqeB
        
        0 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:12pm
    - graham
      
      Wow Maggie … does your casual racism come naturally or do you have to work on it?
      
      Come on, you can be better than that.
      
      18 5
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 9:19am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Well it was never considered ‘offensive’ in our household Bene.
      More just a term of endearment.
      Right up till the day she died, my gran would txt me… “if you’re going past the chinamans could you get me some apples and a cabbage”.
      It meant nothing more than ‘the greengrocer’ to me. Still does. I shop at Jacks Lums regularly and they all luv me.
      
      17 6
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 9:38am
      - MCōs
        
        I read an article the other day about Jamie-Lee Ross who was best friends with some well to do Chinese gentlemen until just as suddenly as he left the Nats he wasn’t.
        
        6 5
        Report
        July 4, 2024 9:56am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Sometimes it is best to admit that you are mistaken.
        
        https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chinaperson-racist-term-don-blankenship-senate_n_5aeb3915e4b0c4f1931ffdee
        
        5 4
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:43am
      - jkt
        
        My wife told a story how a black gentleman came to her assistance when her car broke down many years ago in South Africa …..
        Our Sister in Law had a double take and stammered…
        “You can’t use that type of language!” 🙄
        
        4 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 1:06pm
      - greybeard
        
        I find the term “Chinaman” far less offensive than the description “pakeha”.
        
        10 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 1:28pm
Matt Long

Scott Adams says multi factor computer climate models ave zero predictive value, get community noted by YouTube with UN “Facts.”
I wonder if the UN staffer wrote it in a private jet, has to be true anyway, cause Ardern and Clark love the UN.
https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/what-is-climate-change
18 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:16am
- jkt
  
  The UN fella has this wrong.
  
  I sure as hell will not pay dearly some time in the future ……
  I am sure as hell paying dearly right now and will pay even more in the near future.
  
  3 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 1:11pm
Yvette

The Waitangi Tribunal website says the “translation of the te reo Māori text of the treaty was done by former Tribunal member Professor Sir Hugh Kawharu. The translation sets out to show how Māori would have understood the meaning of the text they signed. It was published in the book Waitangi Revisited: Perspectives on the Treaty of Waitangi, edited by Michael Belgrave, Merata Kawharu and David Williams (Oxford University Press, 1989)”

The third
For this agreed arrangement therefore concerning the Government of the Queen, the Queen of England will protect all the ordinary people of New Zealand and will give them the same rights and duties [10] of citizenship as the people of England. [11]
Footnote: [11] This, then, reinforces the guarantees in article 2.
https://www.waitangitribunal.govt.nz/treaty-of-waitangi/translation-of-te-reo-maori-text/

Many are of the view that the Treaty is between the 1840s Maori Chiefs and the Crown, but non-Maori, by corollary, are equal to Maori in “rights and duties as British subjects”, but apparently the Maori “ki nga tangata o Ingarani” means “as people of England” and the third article “reinforces the guarantees in article 2”, meaning the entire Treaty is about Maori and the Crown, and the non-Maori in New Zealand, in fact, are not mentioned at all in the so-called “Founding Document of the Nation”.

Bugger

And, further on the Tribunal’s site –

Under the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975, the Waitangi Tribunal is tasked with determining the meaning and effect of the Treaty for the purposes of inquiring into Māori claims. However, the Māori text is not an exact translation of the English text. For this reason, the Treaty of Waitangi Act requires the Tribunal to ‘decide issues raised by the differences between them’.

What follows below is a general guide to the meaning of the treaty texts.
The preamble to the English text states that the British intentions were to:
• protect Māori interests from the encroaching British settlement
• provide for British settlement
• establish a government to maintain peace and order.

Nowhere does it actually directly mention the non-Maori in New Zealand, although the whole Treaty was to protect Maori from what some of the Maori were doing, and what some of the Maori themselves were doing.
The Treaty doesn’t for example say – “We the People of New Zealand, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the …”

Double bugger
11 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:25am
- Matt Long
  
  The people of England, would be better translated the citizens of the Empire.
  
  11 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:41am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  If the respective parties to the agreement did not have the same understanding of what they were signing – then what they signed was not an agreement.
  
  I suppose a case can be made that each party is nevertheless bound by the commitments made in its own language. But it can’t be bound by commitments made in the other party’s language, if those aren’t the same.
  
  7 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:57am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  1840 version of Civis Romanus Sum!!
  
  4 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 9:03am
- rockape
  
  So still having a uk passport I am ok!
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 9:29am
  - peterwn
    
    Frying pan into fire.
    
    4 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 10:00am
- mandk
  
  If we are to consider ” … how Māori would have understood the meaning of the text they signed.”, we also need to consider how the representatives of the Crown would have understood the meaning of the text they signed.
  
  And it is unimaginable that they would have understood that they were committing the Crown to entering into a partnership with Māori.
  
  14 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 9:41am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  At some point people are going to start noticing that the official translation of the Maori text by Sir Hugh Kawharu does not actually say what the activists are claiming it says. In particular:
  
  1. What Maori gave up in article one is “for ever the complete government over their land.”
  
  2. What Maori retain in article two is not sovereignty, and is best understood as trusteeship. That means property rights only, not any kind of law making power.
  
  8 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 10:05am
Gravelroad

Did anything happen re Ms Genter’s outburst in Parliament when she lost her temper and aggressively confronted a seated National MP ?
Any consequences?
If no, has a precedent been set?
Perhaps rules and civility do not apply to Green Party members in Parliament.
38 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:27am
- pdm
  
  Gravel you only have to look at the way they dress and their postures to see that what you say is correct.
  
  Same applies to the Maori Party.
  
  29 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:33am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The Priveleges Committee has not yet reported back.
  
  19 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:40am
- imalwaysright
  
  Jovial Gerry seems to be running the place like a hippie commune.
  
  14 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:42am
  - Ghost
    
    it is before the Priveleges Committee what else do you expect him to do
    
    4 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 11:05am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Tidy the place up and get the participants properly dressed.
      I’m sick of seeing ill-mannered, badly dressed, ignorant scumbags defiling our Parliament.
      
      13 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 11:38am
      - Ghost
        
        Write the The Standing Orders committee about the dress code.
        
        4 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:01pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Implement the Standing Orders.
        Why should a citizen have to tell a public functionary how and when to do their job?
        
        5 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 1:00pm
- kowtow
  
  The Maori Party MP young woman’s insult to Winston Peters , “Maori blood is wasted on you” has been canvassed on HDPA ( which means NZME are fully aware) but is going nowhere else on te legacy media .
  
  Gate keeping , self censorship and active protection of treaty principles , no doubt. Money talks .Thanks to Jacinda and her extremely disproportionately powerful Maori caucus.As well as a very compliant , cowardly so called fourth estate.
  
  18 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:52am
  - Damocles11
    
    So many DEI hires made with PIJF funding. Imagine the atmosphere in the newsrooms if anyone were to dare to publish anything that could in any way be construed as negative towards Maori. The MSM have now hamstrung themselves, honest reporting is long gone.
    
    9 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 10:24am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Yes, they all live in a pressure cooker and can’t work out where the heat is coming from.
      
      5 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 11:40am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Gerry Brownlee dare I say it, needs to get a lot stricter.
  
  8 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 10:21am
Matt Long

Big Brother is now watching your diet to make sure you only eat food that makes you sick and low IQ.
“NatWest bank now has a carbon footprint tracker that spies on your purchases to calculate your CO2 emissions.
Farmers are now angry because it is telling people to stop eating meat.”
https://x.com/PeterSweden7/status/1808461255570514220
22 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:27am
- kowtow
  
  We ain’t seen nothing yet.
  
  Milliband has promised the UK will be a climate change world leader .
  
  That place is going to get the most self imposed kicking ever.
  
  12 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:55am
  - imalwaysright
    
    K,
    Very sad to see a great union in its political death throes.
    History indicates that the only solution to political cancer on this scale is revolution.
    Sadly, there seems no other future for them.
    
    11 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 10:43am
- MCōs
  
  Basically it uses the information from your card purchases to figure out an extremely rudimentary carbon footprint tracker.
  Fine if you buy single items like petrol, but useless in the supermarket or restaurant.
  It’s a gimmick to impress/depress the gullible
  
  10 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 9:23am
- greybeard
  
  Easily fixed: pay cash at supermarket.
  
  7 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 10:19am
  - Miritu
    
    While you still can… the war on cash has been underway for a few years.
    “Don’t you know it’s only criminals who use cash”
    
    5 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 1:28pm
imalwaysright

If the bribe was over a million dollars I wonder what the over charges were to make it worthwhile ?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350327700/former-roading-contract-manager-pleads-guilty-sfo-corruption-case

Fake invoicing is the easiest form of corruption. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was the real epidemic that finishes NZ .
10 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:32am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

July 4th Independence Day in the US 9 years ago, we were at a family camp about 25 miles west of Wasilla. About 35/40 people on an 80 acre block with a large BBQ, drinking beers and spirits, Riding quad bikes, telling lies, and shooting guns. All sorts of guns, even skeet shooting with a pump action 12G.
Wow what a blast, and wow that 9 years to now has flown.
16 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:34am
Matt Long

“When will politicians, or at least the intern who runs their account, learn that lying on this platform doesn’t work anymore?”
Musk lets Kamala know Twitter isn’t the left’s private misinformation platform any more.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1807761917274214899
16 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:38am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Election odds today.
  
  Trump 1.57
  Harris 5.00
  Biden 8.50
  
  https://www.sportsbet.com.au/betting/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2024-5479667
  
  So betting markets are saying Biden will likely be replaced and Kamala Harris is the only choice. Gavin Newsom is next at 14.00.
  
  18 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:48am
  - john1234
    
    Harris will just repel voters for different reasons.
    
    13 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 9:33am
nathie

The Cook Strait ferry replacement project issue tends to lead to some interesting debate here.

Although the prevailing view seems to be against KiwiRail and the iRex project, I notice there are also a few informed commentators here that tend to give the bigger picture view and their reasoning appears to be well informed.

So an interesting article yesterday by Bryce Edwards that also explores the bigger picture and in doing so it has led me to revise my views.

I’m with Winston Peters on this (in the article). NZ needs decent infrastructure which does include rail “across” Cook Strait, for reasons of efficiencies and for growing NZ’s industrial outputs (and therefore exports) across a unified transport network (trucks and rail etc).

And I tired of this ad-hoc “third-world” mentality we have where things are put together piece-meal, as politicians can’t see the bigger longer term picture.

Yes KiwiRail took the wrong approach, I get that.

And one aspect I’m still concerned about is a fancy hybrid electric/battery propulsion system that I’m sure commentators here have said is unproven (can we not stick with diesel then)? If this is the case I think we can blame Labour (under Ardern) for that, as Labour were obsessed with progressing only low-carbon “climate change friendly” type initiatives. Battery failure/fire in the middle of Cook St. anyone?

As there are mariners on this forum how “easy” would it be to revert the original replacement ferry design back to say diesel? Or what else needs changing to get things back on track (as National would say) as a first world nation with decent infrastructure to last the next 30 years (ferry) and 60 years (port side infrastructure)?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/why-nz-needs-to-invest-properly-in-rail-and-ferry-infrastructure-for-the-public-good-bryce-edwards-political-roundup/NKNOGOD5VZASZMIMDDSFCVWJMM/
6 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:39am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I agree with the sentiment. New Zealand is littered with examples of embarrassingly inadequate infrastructure. Auckland Harbour Bridge. The Terrace Road tunnel in Wellington.
  
  I don’t know whether the ferries need to be “rail enabled”. I’m not sure that Winston Peters knows either. However I do know that rail enabled ferries have all but gone globally. Yes New Zealand could be an exception. However I would like to see better evidence than an opinion piece in the New Zealand press.
  
  This is what does seem stupid. A state owned rail company, a loss making company, running a vital shipping service. Are all the people responsible for the irex disaster still in senior positions? That alone is enough to steer clear of them m
  
  13 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 10:28am
- Taieri
  
  how “easy” would it be to revert the original replacement ferry design back to say diesel?
  ——-
  
  Very easy, just don’t install the batteries. Batteries were intended to serve as an auxiliary power source only to provide power for manoeuvring and in port in conjunction with shore power. The initial set up had about 235 sq mtrs area for battery banks with about 8400 kWh capacity and another 250 sq mtrs reserved for the future battery space. The main propulsion was to consist of 4 medium speed MAN engines driving alternators supplying azipod propulsion motors.
  
  8 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 11:03am
  - rouppe
    
    Was it the weight of the batteries that was driving the size of the ferry to a point where they couldn’t turn around at Picton?
    
    6 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 12:48pm
    - Taieri
      
      Those ferries, if built, could turn around in their own length.
      
      5 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 2:39pm
- Grunter
  
  In ‘The Real World’…… if there really is demand for a Cook Strait rail ferry, then someone with know-how, money, and an appetite for risk would build one and charge customers for it.
  
  Central Planners (no matter what party colour) using ‘Other People’s Money’ will almost certainly make the wrong decision.
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 11:18am
- Paulus
  
  Like the Auckland new financially exorbitant Super Electric tugs I understand there is a diesel engine backup when the electric power fails.
  Surely Ferries can be the same, but forget the electric only anyway.
  
  7 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 11:19am
  - kowtow
    
    Diesel backup .
    
    But you’d never know that from the puff pieces in te legacy media .
    
    7 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 12:13pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      They also have diesel generators on board to charge the batteries. What a bloody joke.
      
      5 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 3:43pm
  - kevn
    
    Paulus… They use diesel generators on-shore to charge the E Tug when berthed. Rather than use the diesel power when working…
    
    3 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 4:38pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  1 The vessels are too big for Tory Channel. The Harbour Master in Picton has not given permission for them to use the Channel.
  
  2 The vessels have the batteries stored low down in the vessel and this helps with stability. Take those out and you have to have a huge redesign.
  
  3 Stena Line has “off the peg” designs for RoRos and one of them is rail enabled. I believe they are called E flexer Class.
  
  13 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 11:23am
  - Taieri
    
    2 The vessels have the batteries stored low down
    ————-
    
    Plenty of void spaces on that level. Convertible to ballast tanks? Would need to know more details to venture further comments on that.
    
    3 Stena Line has “off the peg” designs for RoRos and one of them is rail enabled
    ————-
    
    This design was considered by the Interislander but for some reason they decided not to go ahead with it. Details here:
    
    https://www.niferry.co.uk/special-feature-a-look-at-an-e-flexer-concept-that-was-never-ordered/
    
    9 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 11:38am
- jkt
  
  International trade does not happen across the Cook Straight. So, I have a different view on this matter.
  
  International trade is linked to container and other commodity terminals. Goods crossing the Cook Straight is generally containerised and can be efficiently managed by shipping.
  
  We do have a problem with moving people and their equipment, packages, and it appears live stock across the Cook Straight effectively and efficiently.
  
  More ferries, rather than fewer, would be my preference.
  
  4 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 1:37pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Can Presidents kill their rivals now with the new Court ruling on immunity from some prosecutions??
I can think of a few that Trump may like to disappear.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/how-the-supreme-court-s-immunity-ruling-opened-the-door-for-a-shocking-question-can-presidents-kill-their-rivals/ar-BB1pm5Ng?

Related to this, the Democrats go full retard!

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/anti-trump-protesters-slam-scotus-over-immunity-ruling/vi-BB1pf8tF?
10 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:44am
- Matt Long
  
  Biden after Sotomayor (Stupidly) said the President could now take out an opponent with a Seal team.
  https://www.tiktok.com/@hotspotmedia/video/7375260378407718187?lang=en
  
  9 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:53am
  - MCōs
    
    Someone in that TikTok clip asks the President if Trump is a political prisoner and is rightly ignored.
    
    As for whether the President could do what you say.
    Apparently the answer is affirmative, but whoever did the actual killing wouldn’t have immunity and would be charged with murder.
    Similarly a President can order a nuclear attack for which they have immunity, but it won’t be carried out if it’s clearly illegal
    
    0 8
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 9:42am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      The President would have presumptive immunity for those acts which means they would go to court over it and the courts could override the immunity.
      Note that Congress could impeach which would guarantee the presumptive immunity would be overturned.
      Nothing has changed. This has always been the case with US Presidents (like when Obama signed off on the extrajudicial killing of two US citizens), the precedents have simply always been created by lower Courts.
      The only new thing is that official Presidential acts can’t be used as evidence in a criminal proceeding but again, an impeachment would get around that.
      
      4 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 9:59am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Hillary got ris of some and she wasn’t even President!
        
        4 4
        Report
        July 4, 2024 12:35pm
    - Matt Long
      
      MCōs, the clip is famous for for Biden’s evil grin triggered by questions about Trump’s dodgy conviction, the joke is that his reaction to the thought of sending a Seal team to eliminate Trump now been “legal” is the same evil grin.
      
      1 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 6:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Perhaps the licensed Māori translators could point us to an accurate/correct English translation of the Treaty of Waitangi that is of “international translation ethical standards”.

Or produce one themselves.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/521201/treaty-principles-bill-maori-translators-pen-letter-over-deeply-flawed-translations?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
20 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 8:52am
- rangitoto
  
  There is no English translation. The treaty was written in English and translated to Maori.
  
  20 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 10:09am
  - Cantabrian
    
    And the final English language draft is buried in National Archives. If it were given the status it should have it would destroy much of the modern rubbish around what the Treaty means. But that would also collapse the careers of most historians and academics who push the Maori line as they would be shown to be wrong. And it no doubt would interfere with some Treaty settlements.
    We will never see the Littlewood Treaty acknowledged.
    
    8 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 12:53pm
Maggie Pie

Anyone else find it strange that we STILL haven’t heard what’s happening with the deportation of that violent Czech drug smuggler Karel Scroubek?

Here’s a question in Parliament from the Hon Paula Bennett….

HANSARD 7 RANGI 2018
Q2 to the Prime Minister:

“Isn’t it the plain fact that her Minister-of-Immigration didn’t ask the right questions and instead has given residency to someone who has committed passport fraud, forced a family into witness protection, continuously lied to officials, and has been convicted of drug smuggling?”

That was 6 years ago! CRICKETS ever since.
A lot of people are smelling a rat.
32 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 9:29am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yes, 18 months ago, he was due to be deported….
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/481957/drug-smuggler-and-kickboxing-champ-karel-sroubek-to-be-deported-back-to-the-czech-republic
  
  20 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 9:42am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Well that sounds apalling don’t you reckon Maggz 🙁
    Is he still here or gone? Surely hard-working-taxpayers of this country desreve to be made aware of what’s happened?
    
    18 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 9:58am
  - Paulus
    
    DotCom still here too !
    
    6 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 11:20am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Do you even know him Pauly, other than what you’ve read?
      He and his wonderful wife are an absolute ASSET to New Zealand.
      If only we had more people here like KDC than thousands of others I could name.
      
      5 6
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 11:50am
- cmm
  
  Maybe Labour Lite need drugs too?
  
  10 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 9:50am
- Blog-aholic
  
  I read from another site that someone had done an OIA and been bounced around but got this back from MBIE…..I cannot verify but this is what was posted.
  ‘Mr. Karel Sroubek has not been deported. He is exercising his rights of review and appeal which means he cannot be deported at this time.’
  
  What ever that means he is still here.
  
  14 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 9:55am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Do you no what date that was Blogie?
    
    5 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 10:00am
    - Blog-aholic
      
      Was posted on Tuesday I think.
      
      4 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 10:06am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      It was 13 Feb 2024
      
      https://fyi.org.nz/request/25461/response/96432/attach/html/4/DOIA%202324%201509%20James%20Response%20Letter.pdf.html
      
      7 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 10:21am
      - Bobba Fret
        
        He’s had more than his three months to get his affairs in order, so should be getting deported.
        But I bet he isn’t!
        
        8 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:24am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        WOW! And no reason given in that response as to ‘why’.
        
        7 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:26am
      - imalwaysright
        
        M. P
        Maybe it was a captains call…
        
        7 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 10:52am
      - Inandout
        
        Tena koe is a new one to me. How long before the body of letters will be in Maori to totally confuse the recipient?
        
        8 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:03am
      - Ghost
        
        Tēnā koe Has been used for a while now.
        
        2 2
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:08am
      - pdm
        
        maggy – as kids growing up at Porangahau we used to pronounce:
        
        Tena Koe
        
        as
        
        Te nah coy.
        
        No one seemed to worry.
        
        3 2
        Report
        July 4, 2024 1:14pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I used to hear it said as: tenakway/ tenaqui
        
        5 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 1:34pm
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        Tena koe.
        Many years ago the riddle went;
        How do you say hello to a Maori trolley dolly?
        Tena koe ehoa.
        
        1 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 5:56pm
      - Matt Long
        
        Tena Koe is problematic as it assumes the receiver is Cis gender and should not be used in the ministry’s correspondence.
        A simple salutation like, “Hone, I’m a virtue signalling narcissist, so I work in Government” is much better to avoid offense.
        
        2 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 7:08pm
rangitoto

On the 17th July ten years ago, Igor Girkin shot down the MH17 airliner, murdering among others, 193 Dutch. In payback, 24 ex Dutch Vipers are finally about to be delivered to Ukraine.
11 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 9:55am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Surprised to see Elon still allows Igor on ‘X’ 🙁
  Wonder if he’s aware of what he did?
  
  https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1808533319501701627
  
  6 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 10:14am
  - rangitoto
    
    Igor is serving a sentence of four years in a Russian prison. Probably for his criticism of Putin.
    
    6 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 10:18am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Imagine how long he would get if he critisised Sleepy or Obama or, god rest his soul, Killary.
      
      7 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 11:09am
      - Libertarians are right
        
        If he criticised Hillary he would hang himself with his hands tied behind his back AND shoot himself in the back with a shotgun that is found 20 metres away.
        
        11 1
        Report
        July 4, 2024 11:47am
      - rangitoto
        
        Vlad is more imaginative. You get to choose the special tea or an open window.
        
        2 0
        Report
        July 4, 2024 4:52pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Tucker Carlson thinks Australia is expensive.
Come to NZ mate! Live off Super.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/tucker-carlson-s-stunning-admission-about-life-in-australia/ar-BB1pjWcm?
8 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 10:22am
- Damocles11
  
  Everybody moans about the cost of living wherever they are. Petrol goes up 5 cents a litre in Australia, everybody moans….but it’s still a $1 per litre cheaper than NZ. But over here you get people saying “it’s just as bad in Australia, they are moaning too”.
  
  11 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 10:28am
  - MCōs
    
    Petrol in Sydney is around $A1.80/litre, which is about two dollars of our money
    Today I paid $2.26 at a Pak n Sav near here
    Just down the road it was 45c more at a BP
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 8:11pm
  - cmm
    
    Everyone moans because everyone has a certain level of entitlement and when that is not met they feel pain.
    Once people have experienced a certain level of consumption it is hard to tighten your belts from there.
    
    Americans are bitching about car prices because they typically buy far more expensive cars more often than others.
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 9, 2024 11:09am
Maggy Wassilieff

Talking about translation of Te Reo to English…..

Rawiri Waititi made a very long speech/ sermon in Parliament on 28 May 2024 ….all in Te Reo.

It remains untranslated.

RAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader—Te Pāti Māori): Tēnā tātou.

[Authorised te reo Māori text to be inserted by the Hansard Office.]

[Authorised translation to be inserted by the Hansard Office.]

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansD_20240528_20240528
15 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 10:51am
- kowtow
  
  If Maori was an “official” language in any meaningful sense other than its de jure status then there’d be simultaneous translation in the house and Hansard much sooner , as with the mythological recent creation of Aotearoa as the name of the country ( Nu Tirani in the treaty) ’tis all but a political lie .Like the “ancient traditions ” of Pleiades .
  The Emperor has no clothes.
  
  11 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 11:37am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Well, there used to be fairly rapid translations.
    
    5 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 1:19pm
    - jkt
      
      It was an important speech…….
      
      5 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 1:42pm
    - MCōs
      
      Whoever would have done the translation has probably been deleted to save money
      
      0 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 7:47pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Time for a big bonfire?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/521258/gisborne-surfers-clean-up-undone-by-new-storm-debris
8 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 11:01am
- imalwaysright
  
  Unfortunately all of the valuable CO2 would dissipate to the Pacific instead of settling around the orchards and vineyards where we most need it.
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 11:12am
Maggie Pie

UNBELIEVEABLE?

I’m sure there will be others here who when they see this,
will be just as appalled as I was….

https://twitter.com/MattWallace888/status/1808565202193166652
6 3
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 11:37am
- Keith White
  
  Not much different from what the Govt charges us for a passport compared to the cost of its production.
  
  We pay Govt $215.
  Govt pays printer $13.20.
  
  8 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 12:12pm
  - MCōs
    
    Some years ago it transpired that All Black jerseys that retailed for ~$200 cost about eight dollars to manufacture in Bangladesh or wherever
    I was watching an ODI from India a couple of years ago and an ad flickered across the screen for a site for replica Indian gear so I looked it up and a shirt was about thirty bucks
    Now adidas has the clothing contract and the price has shot up.
    Pro tip
    If you can’t afford genuine Chanel merchandise or even knockoff stuff just walk around with your copy of Judith Collins book in the appropriate shopping bag
    
    4 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 1:47pm
  - jkt
    
    $430 and they take three days to get your passport to you.
    So, does that would mean it takes them about a day and a half to process an ordinary passport.
    
    5 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 1:48pm
    - Taieri
      
      The last time I applied for a new passport on line on Monday and it was delivered on Wednesday. Normal fee.
      In January 2021.
      
      6 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 2:42pm
    - cmm
      
      It probably takes almost zero time to actually process.
      
      The whole process is automated Maybe a few seconds of manual checking at a computer screen, press OK and then it ends up in the queue for being printed onto blank passports.
      
      0 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 9, 2024 11:12am
  - MCōs
    
    It’s $100 to renew a Thai passport in NZ
    
    4 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 2:54pm
- jkt
  
  I agree. This is a disgraceful tweet.
  These people have feelings too!
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 1:45pm
- Don Beckett
  
  Maggie @ 11.37 am.
  
  Which bag are you referring to ? 😆
  
  4 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 3:47pm
- lifesgood
  
  Anyone who pays a huge amount of money to give a company free advertising is an idiot. I guess they want to advertise that they are rich, morons.
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 4:03pm
  - Jethrod
    
    I got a nice bag the other day from Briscoes. All recycled materials too. And FREE!
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 5, 2024 8:31am
- cmm
  
  Yes, it is a money making venture, but so what?
  
  If you can afford to spend $10k on a holiday overseas then a couple of hundred $ here or there in passport costs doesn’t really move the needle.
  
  I’m paying $1k or more a week in tax. Much more worried about that.
  
  0 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 9, 2024 11:14am
Bridgenag

Don’t know whether i posted yesterday

German Study Demonstrates that “COVID” Deaths were Exaggerated, Interventions were Ineffective and the “Vaccine” Caused More Harm than Benefit, Including Death.
Preprint on ResearchGate by Christof Kuhbandner and Matthias Reitzner

https://open.substack.com/pub/metatron/p/german-study-demonstrates-that-covid?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
14 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 1:28pm
- SPC
  
  Draw some dots. Before the vaccine there were lockdowns.
  
  After the vaccines, more people were infected – because its efficacy only lasted a few months against delta and it did not block omicron.
  
  It showed lockdowns worked. Enzed and Oz proved that.
  
  2 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 8:41pm
  - cmm
    
    “It showed lockdowns worked.”
    
    Of course lockdowns “work” at slowing the spread of disease for a short while (aka from flattening the curve). But it is not a sustainable way to solve any problem. Lockdowns cannot be implemented forever and are not a viable longterm solution.
    
    Eventually people need to face facts – people need to get out and about. We need the economy to work. The diseases will spread.
    
    To think that lockdowns are a viable strategy is as naive as thinking you can stop teens from having sex. Sure you can for a few days or whatever, but not on a longterm basis.
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 9, 2024 11:20am
Maggie Pie

Suspects run over 68-year-old NZ woman in US

– NZH

“Was it THEM again, Yogi?”
“Three of them this time BooBoo”

WATCH:

https://f2ja.short.gy/XqRuYc
11 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 2:46pm
- kevn
  
  Maggie.. Indeed. Video says so.
  https://www.foxnews.com/us/tourist-fatally-mowed-down-armed-robbery-california-fashion-mall-sparking-wild-police-chase
  
  5 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 4:42pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Fox won’t let us watch that vid Kev becos of….. ‘ad-blocker’
    
    Assume it’s the same one I posted anyway?
    
    3 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 4, 2024 4:59pm
    - Jack5
      
      The woman killed, Patricia McKay, was wife of Doug McKay, who was big in NZ Breweries, then when it became Lion, was New Zealand and China manager.
      
      A few weeks ago he retired as chairman of the Bank of New Zealand, after being on the board for about 15 years.
      
      He has also just ended a term as a director of Fletcher Building.
      
      Sounds like the McKays were on a retirement holiday.
      
      3 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      July 4, 2024 7:05pm
      - MCōs
        
        Visiting family if you must know
        
        2 4
        Report
        July 4, 2024 7:39pm
Master Mariner

https://gruppman.livejournal.com/45624.html
Just in.
Tanker due too load fuel ? From Singapore to NZ.
Wonder whether it will be av gas, diesel or petrol.
Bound to be a shortage of one in coming weeks.
6 3
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 5:06pm
- Parnell Gun Club
  
  Link is to an incident in 2006 ?
  Would love to know more though.
  
  4 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 5:56pm
Surely Knott

Herald Headline “Opinion: ‘insulting, untrue’ tail Govt’s primary school testing risks the tail wagging the dog – Tom Pearce”

Then when you click on the article it’s a different headline.

“Primary school testing: Government should focus on supporting teachers to address learning needs by Tom Pearce”

“Tom Pearce is a doctoral student in the University of Auckland’s Faculty of Education and Social Work. His research looks at the use of assessment in primary schools”

But a google shows Tom Pearce is a part time teacher in Freemans Bay Primary also.

His profile says “Tom began teaching in 2011 and has taught a variety of year levels at schools in Wellington, Auckland and overseas. He is passionate about equitable and inclusive education, and believes that school needs to empower students to understand themselves and their place in the world, so that they can change it for the better”

If your main concern in life is equity, and inclusion through a social construction lens in education then Freeman’s Bay Primary seems a very strange choice as they are a wealthy decile and elite performing school with very few social problems.

This seems to be quite common on the left that those whose voices are the loudest in the media for telling us about what’s best for the poor live and work in the whitest most affluent neighbourhoods.
8 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 5:18pm
- cmm
  
  “This seems to be quite common on the left that those whose voices are the loudest in the media for telling us about what’s best for the poor live and work in the whitest most affluent neighbourhoods.”
  
  Aka Messiah Complex.
  
  0 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 9, 2024 11:22am
greybeard

https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/350330579/new-name-announced-christchurch-stadium
“Christchurch Stadium” would seem to be the best and most logical name.
8 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 5:35pm
- MCōs
  
  Maybe, but the naming rights have been sold to bring in some money as happens pretty much everywhere
  
  2 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 7:35pm
  - Jethrod
    
    Named after a 2 horse town on the East Coast, what were they thinking?
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    July 5, 2024 8:34am
Surely Knott

Oh but wait there’s more….Tom Pearce is also the web manager for the Helen Clark foundation.

All good, but if your opinion is put forward in our National newspaper then just curious what the background to that opinion is.

https://helenclark.foundation/about-us/our-people/
9 1
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 5:53pm
- Ghost
  
  Herald should include his connection to the Clark foundation in the bio
  
  9 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 4, 2024 6:28pm
- cmm
  
  C’mon as we all know, and is clearly stated on their website, the Helen Clark foundation is non-partisan and totally independent with no political affiliations.
  
  0 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 9, 2024 11:24am
Maggie Pie

Tell you who I’m feeling really sorry for…

Anyone that bought a high-rise Apartment in Auckland for over 10mill… or anyone who purchased one on Maori leasehold.

FAAAARK 🙁
9 2
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 6:06pm
- cmm
  
  “Tell you who I’m feeling really sorry for…”
  
  Why feel sorry for them? The Good Book says: stupid people must suffer.
  
  0 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  July 9, 2024 11:25am
Maggie Pie

1EWES reporting that the coalition governments intention to introduce the law banning Gang Patches before the end of the year, is likely to to run into opposition…. becos it may breech ‘THE-BILL-OF-RIGHTS’

As my partner just exploded… “No wonder this hole country is f**ked!!”
4 3
Log in to Reply
Report
July 4, 2024 7:26pm

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« Greens believe in sensitivity for everyone but Jews

Two dire polls for Biden »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 37.4K other subscribers

Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

Dr Eric Crampton: Adventures in consumer protection
Breaking Views
Of course the Military Boot camps were going to fail, that’s not the point!
The Daily Blog
Obsession With Unreliable Wind & Solar Drives Punishing Cost of Net-Zero CO2 Delusion
Utopia
Treaty Principles Debate
NZCPR
€ 500 Billion for Coal and Gas Seems Expensive
No Minister
Word of the day
Hompaddock
Much ado about cussing…
Point of Order
A guide to making a submission on the Treaty Principles Bill
The Standard
Justice in Brazil
No Right Turn
"Seymour is only doing openly what M?ori nationalists and their Pakeha allies have been doing, quietly for the past 50 years."
Not PC
The transgender agenda sunk Kamala
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
What does “reciprocity” mean in New Zealand laws?
Croaking Cassandra
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

Facebook
Twitter
FourSquare
Instagram
LinkedIn
Google+

Archives
Disclosure Statement
Editorial Policy
Privacy Policy
Complaints Policy
Comments Policy

Design by cre8d

%d

Share this:

Like this: