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June 29, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 29 June 2024

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General Debate

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Matt Long

Thomas Cranmer points out that much of New Zealand’s He Puapua framework is modelled on Bolivia.
“Because Bolivia was the first country to formally incorporate UNDRIP into its constitution in 2009. On more than one occasion over the last 6 years, our Cabinet papers have referenced Bolivia as an international precedent when considering our own constitutional arrangements.

Bolivia was one of the models studied by He Puapua co-author Claire Charters. Last year Charters joined the Human Rights Commission which was approved by Cabinet to jointly prepare NZ’s draft declaration plan together with the National Iwi Chairs Forum and Te Puni Kōkiri on behalf of the government.”
https://x.com/CranmerWrites/status/1806487684208349451
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June 29, 2024 8:03am
- Taieri
  
  much of New Zealand’s He Puapua framework is modelled on Bolivia.
  ————-
  
  What an excellent idea!
  Perhaps we could also use the experiences of Somalia and Afghanistan to further develop our constitutional arrangements?
  
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  June 29, 2024 8:08am
- CJames
  
  Certainly that is revealing. The Maori elite see Bolivia as a place to emulate. Is that with or without the coups? Do we get authoritarian generals leading the country as well?
  
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  June 29, 2024 8:45am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    There is a Coup in progress right now. It has been happening since the formation of the Waitangi Tribunal in 1975.
    
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    June 29, 2024 11:00am
    - Mike
      
      A ‘coup’ a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group.
      You might be thinking about gradual evolution of our constitution by democratically elected parliaments.
      
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      June 29, 2024 12:26pm
      - Damocles11
        
        I think it’s more a case of the gradual erosion of our democracy by unelected bureaucrats, judges, academics, and the mainstream media. In a democracy, political rights must not depend on a persons DNA. The right of Parliament to make laws and govern the nation must not be usurped by activist judges and unelected tribunals. If these things are occurring then we have ceased to be a democracy.
        
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        June 29, 2024 12:40pm
      - Mike
        
        That doesn’t, and can’t, happen, as the elected representatives control the bureaucracy and the judiciary. They can even pass laws to restrain academics and the media, if that is an actual concern.
        
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        June 29, 2024 1:48pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Oh rubbish
        Just look at how unelected officials in Council and places like Auckland Transport ignore elected officials and what people have signaled they want in Surveys
        
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        June 29, 2024 2:06pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        You might be thinking about the gradual attack on our constitution by democratically elected parliaments who then act in an undemocratic and un-mandated manner.
        
        Fixed that for you Milky. You’re welcome.
        
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        June 29, 2024 3:28pm
      - JimBobJoe
        
        Now, now Michael as you well know the is a phrase ‘slow moving coup’ used normally to describe an erosion of legitimate authority by a slow, corrosive action.
        
        Its also known as Fabianism – and NZ has been in its grip for decades.
        
        The Labour Govt of Ardern and Hipkins thought the slow bit had been decisive and tried to apply a coup de grace in 2021/22.
        
        Alas, for Lefties the NZ Public revolted and threw them out primarily because they spotted all the lies and division spewing from St Jacindas mouth, so the Fabians will just bide their time and complete the job in the next decade or so.
        
        And the National Party, contrary to its founding principles, like the band on the Titanic keeps a stiff up lip and plays worn out tunes as the good ship NZ flounders in Socialist Seas.
        
        A cold Fiji beckons…
        
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        June 29, 2024 5:02pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        All_on_Red,
        
        Auckland Transport is a perfect example of a takeover and they do as they wish.
        Where do you vote to stop Auckland Transport? And Watercare for that matter!
        
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        June 29, 2024 5:43pm
- Yvette
  
  https://www.tpk.govt.nz/docs/tpk-undrip-a5book-en-feb2022.pdf
  
  A Declaration plan in Aotearoa
  Social, cultural and economic wellbeing
  • Indigenous peoples have the right to improve their political, social and economic systems and to maintain, control, develop, protect and transmit their cultural heritage, traditional knowledge and languages.
  • Lands, territories and resources
  Indigenous peoples have the right to own and control the lands they possess, as well as the right to compensation for the taking of their lands. States shall provide legal recognition of their lands through fair and open processes.
  
  https://nwo.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/MatikeMaiAotearoa25Jan16.pdf
  HE WHAKAARO HERE WHAKAUMU MŌ AOTEAROA
  THE REPORT OF MATIKE MAI AOTEAROA – THE INDEPENDENT WORKING GROUP ON CONSTITUTIONAL TRANSFORMATION.
  
  The first mentions South America –
  Cover: This pop [pillar] was gifted to the Indigenous Mapuche people of Chile by the Minister for Maori Development at a special ceremony in March 2019
  
  Further –
  New Zealand announced its support of the Declaration in 2010 and is committed to improving Māori outcomes. Aotearoa is developing a Declaration plan to measure our progress in addressing Indigenous rights and interests.
  
  Each time, it seems, that the 2010 acceptance of UNDRIP is mentioned, it is not qualified by Peter Staples statement on behalf of the John Key National Government, that the extent of engagement with UNDRIP was to be confined by the Treaty of Waitangi.
  
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  June 29, 2024 8:50am
- Surely Knott
  
  Thomas Cranmer is a national treasure and one of the few in this country doing genuine investigative journalism.
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:03am
  - imalwaysright
    
    That’s right Surely, and, while not detracting from Cranmers fine work, it isn’t as if much of what he publishes is hard to uncover.
    He does the research and builds a conclusion based upon the facts.
    It shows that the mainstream media are wilfully ignorant. The worst kind of ignorance.
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:14am
    - R
      
      he publishes is hard to uncover….
      BUT he at least does the Research and informs the public about the TRUE intent of activist policies.
      Not something that the MSM ever do!
      
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      June 29, 2024 11:04am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Hear hear
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:43am
- Yvette
  
  Thomas Cranmer points out that much of New Zealand’s He Puapua framework is modelled on Bolivia.
  Why go to Chile or Bolivia, apart from junkets, to acquire a model for Maori / UNDRIP participation, when here at the moment three parties are participating in the running of the nation?
  Don’t, FFS, point this out to Mr Morgan or He Puapua co-author Ms Claire Charters.
  The difference of having National, New Zealand First and ACT joined automatically by Te Pati Maori, is that the last would be unelected to that position in the Coalition.
  That, of course, would be undemocratic, and a step beyond the Treaty
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:18am
Bridgenag

These just came in this morning and are good posts from USA

Friday Funnies: Biden has fallen
and he can’t get up.

“At this point, Joe Biden is nothing more than the village idiot. But Jill Biden—she is an “ignorant person with initiative,” as described by Napoleon (see the meme above). She has seized the reigns of power, and the Cabinet has a duty to ensure that the next seven months are free from the dangers of having an imbecile as President and his wife, who was not elected, acting as Commander-in-Chief.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/friday-funnies-biden-has-fallen?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

was there ever really any debate?
tinfoil cat posits and pontificates el gato malo

“if team biden well and truly is the bought and paid for (and embarrassingly cheaply at that) pawn of foreign influence compensated through shady deals with ukraine and china that somehow cannot sustain any media spotlight whatsoever (itself a telling fact) then perhaps we need to ask the really sinister questions of “is this a real life manchurian candidate and what would such a candidate’s masters want?””

“Were he not an evil, perverted, lying, duplicitous, integrity-free, nasty, showering-with-tween-daughter abomination, I would feel pity for Joe Biden for his public humiliation last night.
But alas…”

https://open.substack.com/pub/boriquagato/p/was-there-ever-really-any-debate?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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June 29, 2024 8:06am
- jkt
  
  Good posts?
  It is disgraceful to call any of these posts anything at her than vitriol.
  
  Funny commentary perhaps, but good posts? Come on!
  
  Trump will save the world and destroy Putin before he becomes President.
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:14am
- JackRabbit
  
  …“if team biden well and truly is the bought and paid for (and embarrassingly cheaply at that) pawn of foreign influence compensated through shady deals with ukraine and china…
  
  Putin has said (paraphrased) “… charging and convicting with false criminal charges against your political opponent (Trump) in order to win an election, is an indicator of how far the US has fallen and democracy replaced with tyranny.”
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:24am
  - Mike
    
    Putin is a well-known expert on how a modern democracy should operate.
    
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    June 29, 2024 9:47am
    - Simon
      
      Lol – Putin recent election result still came in lower than Biden’s 2020 late night ballot drop.
      
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      June 29, 2024 10:14am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Russia is not quite as communist in the style you think. If you can get past the way in which the mainstream media portrays Russia, you may find that Canada, the USA, are as corrupt, as you perceive Russia to be.
      
      You might want to read this:
      
      https://thebfd.co.nz/2024/06/26/is-putin-really-a-communist/
      
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      June 29, 2024 10:20am
      - jkt
        
        Two wrongs make a right?
        
        But there is some truth in your comment. There is partial free speech in the three jurisdictions that you reference!
        
        You are aware of the fact that practising free speech in those three jurisdiction has different consequences?
        
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        June 29, 2024 10:53am
    - Geri Sjovik
      
      Well if anyone would know tryanny Putin would.
      
      So yes, I think he is well qualified to make coment.
      
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      June 29, 2024 11:11am
      - Mike
        
        I think he is well qualified to decide that another Trump presidency would be advantageous for his own regime
        
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        June 29, 2024 12:28pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Putin has endorsed Biden
        
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        June 29, 2024 12:38pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        “Mike
        I think he is well qualified to decide that another Trump presidency would be advantageous for his own regime.”
        
        Delusional comment of the day.
        
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        June 29, 2024 12:51pm
      - Mike
        
        All_on_Red must imagine that both candidates seek the endorsement of the Russian dictator.
        
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        June 29, 2024 1:18pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        I don’t imagine anything
        Putin has said he would prefer Biden as President.
        At least I’m not a degenerate and constant liar.
        
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        June 29, 2024 2:07pm
      - jkt
        
        Putin endorsing either candidate is a real advantage for the other candidate ….. it is definitely not the other way round ……
        
        If one requires an endorsement from Putin ……. desperate.
        
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        June 29, 2024 2:40pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        If a Trump presidency means 100s of thousands of young lives are saved and the risk of a nuclear war is greatly reduced Milky, would that be a good thing in your estimation?
        
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        June 29, 2024 3:31pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        Putin wants Trump because Trump is likely to cut off support for Ukraine and gift him more in a resolution to that conflict than Democrats.
        
        I personally think West should do everything it can to stop Putin in Ukraine now to prevent fighting more wars and cold war type re-militarization with an enlarged and emboldened russian empire, but Trump + Republicans are not unreasonably more isolationist in their views given costs and bad state of US economy.
        
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        June 29, 2024 5:04pm
- Grunter
  
  Hilary will be licking her lips getting ready to replace Joe. Someone will have to step in.
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:30am
  - Simon
    
    Naw they are riding with Biden.
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:16am
  - Diogenes
    
    If Biden and Trump are the best candidates that the US political system can put up, then either way they are completely stuffed. They will have the best president that money can buy? It’s astounding, the billions of dollars that are being and will be spent on these election campaigns, with what as the outcome? Oh dear, it’s obscene.
    
    And should Hilary be the Democrat answer, they’re definitely asking the wrong question.
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:36am
    - leoj
      
      This putting Biden and Trump into the same basket is nonsense.
      
      Anyone with half a brain could see the differences between them. Their age might be three years but in mental capacity it’s 30 years.
      
      The US needs Trump now more then ever, just as the UK needs Farage.
      
      The world is slowly figuring out that woke leftism is failing, as it should.
      
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      June 29, 2024 1:21pm
  - jkt
    
    Replacing Biden with Clinton will be as successful as replacing Biden with Bernie Sanders …… or Jimmy Carter.
    
    PS
    I am not eligible to vote in American or Russian elections.
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:57am
  - I remember when
    
    Gavin Newsom thought Joe Biden did well in the Presidential Debate –
    
    just not as well as he thinks he is going to do.
    
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    June 29, 2024 12:08pm
    - leoj
      
      Newsom has no option but to say that. A total failure for California and he is in line to be president? Crazy stuff. Newsom is another version of Justin Trudeau. Both are woke idiots.
      
      The Dems are in disarray (HOORAY!) and it’s about time they were shut out. Shumer, Durbin, etc and the Dems in the Senate are pure scum.
      
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      June 29, 2024 1:25pm
artemisia

Herald today, paywalled – What’s eating TVNZ? The major financial, operational and leadership challenges facing state TV broadcaster…

Long article by Shayne Currie, well worth a read if able to. Hint- the future is digital.

Just focusing on one issue raised there. The legal setbacks at the Employment Relations Authority and in the Employment Court have been expensive and time-consuming. The cases were based on collective contract Clause 10.1.1, requiring union members to be consulted very very early in the process, the clause apparently sitting idle for some two decades.

Expensive? Sounds like more job cuts coming up than planned. Perhaps the union thinks it won.
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June 29, 2024 8:10am
- Souvlaki
  
  Biggest news in world….public revelation that leader of ” Free world” unequivocally demented & non compos mentis…w 4 ” more years ” at stake…TV 1 lead w Matariki…HAS to be shut down as credible ” news”….surely😳😳
  
  Even TV3 lead with the debate….& had Matariki at about the 4th item.
  No taxpayer money, at all should be used to prop TVNZ up , in any way , shape or form imo.
  
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  June 29, 2024 8:17am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Apparently school kids are being taught a maori language Matariki song.
    
    It is sung to the tune of The Macarena!
    
    I’m not making this up.
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:20am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Preschool too. I have a video of my three year old grandson doing this at a Wellington preschool.
      
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      June 29, 2024 10:46am
      - jkt
        
        It is a good way to learn a new language.
        
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        June 29, 2024 11:00am
      - Anthony Melchett
        
        Its been around for at least 6 years.
        
        It’s the most awful display or cringe indoctrination you will ever see.
        
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        June 29, 2024 11:53am
  - Paulus
    
    Where the hell can I find this new Great Star Cluster called in a few short years buy a local name Matariki, or day to plant modern version of the potato called Kumera.
    I hope that has been done, but where is the Seven Sister cluster today or some other day ?
    I cannot see it.
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:20am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Where? Find any Subaru and look at the logo 😉
      
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      June 29, 2024 10:46am
      - imalwaysright
        
        The maoris are calling first dibs!
        
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        June 29, 2024 12:58pm
    - rangitoto
      
      Stellarium might help you. https://stellarium.org/
      
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      June 29, 2024 2:28pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Biggest news in world….public revelation that leader of ” Free world” is a drugged remote controlled sock puppet.
    
    “Kermit and Miss Piggy take out legal action against democrats for copying Muppet technology.”
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:23am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The amazing OBiden ventriloquist show?
      
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      June 29, 2024 3:34pm
- Damocles11
  
  All the information found in that article – the facts, upon which Currie overlays his opinions and spin – can be learned for free from numerous other sources. A quick Google search confirms this. There is absolutely no need to pay for information in this day and age & funding the biased MSM is counter to our best interests.
  
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  June 29, 2024 8:37am
  - Mike
    
    Consumers pay for ‘free’ information indirectly through extremely profitable advertising by social media companies.
    
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    June 29, 2024 9:49am
    - Damocles11
      
      Righto, but subscribers are literally shopped to advertisers as ‘these are how many subscribers we have’. If no-one subscribed or bought physical newspapers, how viable would the woke marxist Herald be?
      
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      June 29, 2024 10:23am
      - Mike
        
        You can have a subscription model, a ‘free’ model, or a mixture, as the Herald and many websites do.
        
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        June 29, 2024 10:59am
      - Damocles11
        
        Sure, the ‘free on-line news’ model must have been working really really well for them aye, and that’s why they started putting stuff behind a paywall. Facepalm.
        
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        June 29, 2024 12:42pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      “Free” as in having your privacy (and therefore security) completely raped by these companies and their shady data affiliates.
      
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      June 29, 2024 4:19pm
- pdm
  
  `Expensive? Sounds like more job cuts coming up than planned. Perhaps the union thinks it won.’
  
  Michael Wood initiated that Union action.
  
  Expected result achieved if more jobs are lost, especially union members jobs.
  
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  June 29, 2024 8:47am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Well, that boy has a golden touch. Win the fight, and collapse the business.
    
    At least he got the union subs out of soon to be laid off.
    
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    June 29, 2024 9:25am
Matt Long

There were a paucity of replies listing Trump’s many lies in the Presidential Debate post last night. I found the elder abuse of a incoherent incontinent drug addict too embarrassing to watch, but did find that lies are common in America.
For example this character, Cassius Clay, who goes by the Alias of Mohammed Ali, claimed to ” Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee,” despite never having shown any evidence that; a, butterflies float, or that his own floating resembles a butterfly.
Even worse he has never shown the slightest evidence of having a stinging apparatus attached his posteria or being able to inject venom under the skin of victims, or of dying following this action.
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June 29, 2024 8:14am
- MCōs
  
  Cassius Clay changed his name to Muhammad Ali sixty years ago and you still can’t let it go.
  
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  June 29, 2024 8:30am
  - softail 1450
    
    MCos, Oh dear poor MCos , why don’t you push your bed up against the wall MCos that way you’ll never get out of it on the wrong side again👍👍
    
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    June 29, 2024 8:57am
    - gravedodger
      
      @softail, more likely on form MCos will get out on the wrong side every freekin day.
      
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      June 29, 2024 11:35am
  - mandk
    
    Matt is correct.
    
    Cassius Clay said it before he changed his name.
    
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    June 29, 2024 9:37am
    - JackRabbit
      
      And his (Cassius Clay’s) metaphors (and Trumps) is about as untruthful as telling your 8 year old to “run like the wind”, or “be strong lie Hercules” in the school sports events.
      
      It is not a lie. It is a metaphor. And Mcos didn’t get Matt’s dry humour.
      
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      June 29, 2024 10:32am
    - jkt
      
      Matt is correct, but what exactly is his point?
      
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      June 29, 2024 11:04am
- Damocles11
  
  Since various people have been asking repeatedly for ‘evidence’ of the purported lies, Politifact has a list of fact checked statements by both candidates, link below:
  
  https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/jun/28/2024-presidential-debate-fact-check-biden-trump/
  
  ——
  
  Info – not taken from Politifact – relating to two of Trumps purported ‘lies’ are as below:
  
  The claim: Trump deflected a question about the January 6 insurrection, blaming Nancy Pelosi for turning down a chance to deploy the national guard.
  
  The facts: This is false. There is no evidence Pelosi got an offer to deploy national guard troops, and even if she did, she wouldn’t have the power to turn it down. The president, defence secretary and army secretary have command of the Washington DC national guard.
  
  ——
  
  The claim: Trump claimed his tax cuts were the largest in history and that his administration had the greatest economy in history.
  
  The facts: His tax cut was the fourth-largest since 1940, according to PolitiFact. According to the non-profit Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget’s recent report, Trump created about twice as much debt ($8.4tn) as Biden ($4.3tn). Before the pandemic hit, economic growth during his presidency averaged at about 2.7% – that’s good but not as good as the 4% average growth during Bill Clinton’s administration. Unemployment before the pandemic was as low as 3.5% – again, not as low as during Clinton’s presidency.
  
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  June 29, 2024 8:51am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Sure Pelosi had no authority to deploy the Guard but she could have ASKED for the National Guard.
    But she didn’t.
    The ‘fact check’ is rather disingenuous.
    Then theres this ‘According to former Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund, who resigned in the riot’s aftermath, Pelosi’s deputies turned down requests for preemptive deployment of the National Guard six times before the day of the riot. House leadership rejected the precautionary deployment because the speaker’s staff was concerned about the “optics” of federal reinforcements in the capital’
    https://thefederalist.com/2024/03/12/capitol-police-chief-steven-sund-says-j6-committee-interviewed-him-only-once/
    They interviewed but never took his evidence into the J6 Record. Just like they never asked Pelosi about it.
    So I rate your fact check “Dubious”
    
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    June 29, 2024 11:18am
    - Damocles11
      
      I posted what I posted in the full knowledge I would get downticked, even though the ones doing it are irrational. That’s the way this place works. People ask to see where exactly the ‘lies’ are, you give them information – without expressing an opinion – so they can review it themselves, and you get dumped on for it. Anyway, I’ll play the game and answer you even though I’ll get dumped on again.
      
      ‘The president, defence secretary and army secretary have command of the Washington DC national guard.’
      
      So if somebody in that group wants to deploy the DC national guard, they are able to do so. There is no requirement, or rationale, for deferring to Nancy Pelosi.
      
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      June 29, 2024 12:48pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Yes I know who is in charge of the National Guard.
        Thats why I said “Pelosi had no authority to deploy it”
        But she could have asked for it and didnt.
        If she had asked she would have got it. She is in charge of the Capitol afterall.
        Sund asked for it and was declined and witnesses heard Trump ask for it.
        Then theres this “Nancy Pelosi says ‘I take responsibility’ for not having National Guard at the Capitol on Jan. 6, as video shows.
        
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        June 29, 2024 2:19pm
      - Damocles11
        
        So Pelosi is ‘in charge of the Capitol’ but the President couldn’t deploy the national guard in DC to maintain order on the streets and environs(?) Turn it up. Nobody suggested putting the national guard *inside* the Capitol building, but if people want to play dumb about this it’s fine by me.
        
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        June 29, 2024 4:46pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Sigh
        I thought you were naive for using Politifact as a Fact Checker
        Pelosi is ON VIDEO admitting responsibility for not calling the National Guard
        Videod by her own daughter whilst in a car together.
        Pelosi is number 3 in line for the Presidency and the Head of the House.
        If you think that the National Guard is going to be deployed WITHOUT ASKING PELOSI first, then you are more ignorant and naive than I think you are.
        Give it up.
        We’re done here.
        
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        June 29, 2024 7:56pm
    - RichardX
      
      Here is the link to Sund’s J6 testimony as part of the J6 record.
      
      https://archive.org/details/january-6th-committee-witness-testimony-20220420-steven-a-sund
      
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      June 29, 2024 12:56pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Thanks
        I missed that
        So there is confirmation Sund asked for it from Pelosi’s staff and his request was turned down and he said so under Oath.
        
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        June 29, 2024 2:25pm
      - RichardX
        
        That is what happens when you rely on partisan sources.
        
        There is nothing in the testimony or Otto’s video link about Pelosi turning down the request for troops unless you are claiming, without evidence, that both the House and Senate Serjeants at Arms were acting on the explicit instructions of Pelosi.
        
        There is nothing in the testimony in support of Otto’s many claims that in the weeks prior to Jan 6 Trump requested troops and Pelosi turned him down.
        
        There is nothing in the testimony in support of AOR’s claim that Trump asked for troops.
        
        All I want is evidential answers to the following questions regarding Otto’s claims.
        Who did Trump ask for troops?
        When did Trump ask for troops?
        How did Pelosi refuse Trump’s request for troops?
        
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        June 29, 2024 2:46pm
      - jkt
        
        All Red:
        And …… “I apologise to Damocles….” ?
        
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        June 29, 2024 2:59pm
      - RichardX
        
        I missed this bit.
        
        Who on “Pelosi’s staff” turned down the request?
        
        Do you count the House and Senate Serjeants at Arms as part of Pelosi’s staff?
        
        Isn’t that like claiming the Joint Chiefs are part of the President’s staff?
        
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        June 29, 2024 3:16pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        I relied on Sunds own words
        He has said this in the media
        He asked for the Guard and Pelosis staff turned him down
        You are confusing many things
        Here is a link to Pelosi on video admitting responsibility
        https://www.yahoo.com/news/nancy-pelosi-says-responsibility-not-205800600.html
        
        Trump didnt ask Pelosi directly. He asked his staff to ask the Secretary of Defence. This has been shown to you before.
        Witnesses have made statements but funnily never interviewed by the J6 Committee.
        A couple of his staff have confirmed he asked for it and overheard him doing so.
        
        And yes there is nothing in the evidence because evidence has been suppressed by the J6 Committee and not reported. Probably like Sunds many comments. And many others.
        This was deliberate
        Can you spell jack up?
        But morons fall for it.
        In fact the GOP have got Gigabytes of Files from J6 testimony which were either destroyed or locked so they cant be opened.
        FACT. This is well reported in the Media.
        
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        June 29, 2024 8:12pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        @jkt
        Apologise for what?
        He’s wrong.
        Should you be off hating Jews somewhere?
        
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        June 29, 2024 8:14pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Here you go
        You have been shown this before
        Why are you being deceptive and disingenuous? Is it ignorance? Partisanship?
        ‘Deputy Chief of Staff Anthony Ornato’s first transcribed interview with the committee was conducted on January 28, 2022. In it, he told Cheney and her investigators that he overheard White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows push Washington D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser to request as many National Guard troops as she needed to protect the city.
        
        He also testified President Trump had suggested 10,000 would be needed to keep the peace at the public rallies and protests scheduled for January 6, 2021. Ornato also described White House frustration with Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller’s slow deployment of assistance on the afternoon of January 6, 2021.
        
        Not only did the committee not accurately characterize the interview, they suppressed the transcript from public review. On top of that, committee allies began publishing critical stories and even conspiracy theories about Ornato ahead of follow-up interviews with him. Ornato was a career Secret Service official who had been detailed to the security position in the White House.’
        ‘However, transcripts of fewer than half of the 1,000 interviews the committee claims it conducted are posted on that site. It is unclear how many of the hidden transcripts include exonerating information suppressed by the committee.
        
        Those documents support the committee’s narrative rather than the truth of the events leading up to January 6, 2021, said Rep. Barry Loudermilk, chairman of the House Administration’s Subcommittee on Oversight.
        
        “The former J6 Select Committee apparently withheld Mr. Ornato’s critical witness testimony from the American people because it contradicted their pre-determined narrative. Mr. Ornato’s testimony proves what Mr. Meadows has said all along: President Trump did in fact offer 10,000 National Guard troops to secure the U.S. Capitol, which was turned down,” said the Georgia Republican.
        
        His subcommittee is reviewing the work of the January 6 committee, which has been accused of other unethical behavior at the expense of accuracy, as well as collusion with other Democrat efforts to prosecute political opponents.’
        https://thefederalist.com/2024/03/08/exclusive-liz-cheney-january-6-committee-suppressed-exonerating-evidence-of-trumps-push-for-national-guard/
        You need better sources- and perhaps need to be less Gullible
        Lol
        
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        June 29, 2024 8:18pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘Meadows “wanted to know if she need any more guardsmen,” Ornato testified. “And I remember the number 10,000 coming up of, you know, ‘The president wants to make sure that you have enough.’ You know, ‘He is willing to ask for 10,000.’ I remember that number. Now that you said it, it reminded me of it. And that she was all set. She had, I think it was like 350 or so for intersection control, and those types of things not in the law enforcement capacity at the time.”
        
        Ornato was correct. Bowser declined the offer, asking only for a few hundred National Guard and requiring them to serve in a very limited capacity.
        
        “No DCNG personnel shall be armed during this mission, and at no time, will DCNG personnel or assets be engaged in domestic surveillance, searches, or seizures of US persons,” Bowser wrote in her letter requesting the D.C. National Guard. Bowser had been a strenuous critic of Republican efforts to limit rioting from leftwing political activists in U.S. cities during 2020’s summer of violence.
        
        Bowser’s decision to decline help from the White House did not end the Trump team’s efforts to secure troops ahead of the protest. When the D.C. mayor declined Trump’s offer of 10,000 troops, Ornato said the White House requested a “quick reaction force” out of the Defense Department in case it was needed.
        
        “The only thing I remember with DOD and the National Guard was even though the mayor didn’t want any more National Guard in D.C., that a request was made to have kind of a, lack of better term, a quick reaction force out at Joint Base Andrews being that it was a military installation,” Ornato told investigators in the previously concealed interview. “I remember Chief Meadows talking to DOD about that, I believe. I remember Chief Meadows letting me know that, ‘Hey, there was going to be National Guard that’s going to be at Joint Base Andrews in case they’re going to need some more, we’re going to — the Mayor would need any, we’re going to make sure they’re out there.’”
        
        Meadows was concerned that D.C. would be unprepared for the size of the crowd coming to protest the controversial 2020 election in which hundreds of laws and processes were changed to enable tens of millions of unsupervised mail-in ballots to flood the country. The January 6 Committee prevented an investigation into Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi’s preparation — or lack thereof — for Capitol security ahead of the event, so it is unclear if she was as concerned about keeping the peace as Meadows and the Trump White House were.
        
        “And, again, the crowd sizes were, you know, the organizers were saying, you know, there may be 50,000 here. So that’s where it started, I think, to scare the chief a little bit of how many people were coming in for this event, and wanted to make sure that they would be able to bring in National Guard if needed for this size of this many people inside D.C.,” Ornato said.
        
        Once the Capitol was breached, the Trump White House pushed for immediate help from Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller and grew frustrated at the slow deployment of that help, according to the testimony.
        
        “So then I remember the chief saying, ‘Hey, I’m calling secretary of defense to get that [quick reaction force] in here,” Ornato said. Later he said, “And then I remember the chief telling Miller, ‘Get them in here, get them in here to secure the Capitol now.’”
        
        Still later, he said, “[T]he constant was, you know, where is the National Guard? Why isn’t — you know, we’ve got to get control of this.” And again, “But, you know, [Meadows] understood the urgency, that’s for sure. And he kept, you know, getting Miller on the phone, wanting to know where they were, why aren’t they there yet.”
        
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        June 29, 2024 8:23pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘Last week, Federalist Editor-in-Chief Mollie Hemingway reported that Cheney’s committee concealed testimony from former White House Deputy Chief of Staff Anthony Ornato. In Ornato’s first interview with House investigators on Jan. 28, 2022, Ornato told lawmakers he overheard Meadows urge D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser to mobilize as many National Guard troops as needed.
        
        “He also testified President Trump had suggested 10,000 would be needed to keep the peace at the public rallies and protests scheduled for January 6, 2021,” Hemingway reported. “Ornato also described White House frustration with Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller’s slow deployment of assistance on the afternoon of January 6, 2021.”
        
        Lawmakers on the partisan probe kept the transcript from the public and went on a press campaign to discredit Ornato as a witness. In her book, however, Cheney cited Ornato’s testimony as evidence of White House dismissiveness surrounding the security situation in Washington on Jan. 6.’
        ‘The former J6 Select Committee apparently withheld Mr. Ornato’s critical witness testimony from the American people because it contradicted their pre-determined narrative,” Rep. Barry Loudermilk, R-Ga., who is investigating the Jan. 6 committee, said on Friday. “Mr. Ornato’s testimony proves what Mr. Meadows has said all along: President Trump did in fact offer 10,000 National Guard troops to secure the U.S. Capitol, which was turned down.”
        
        Ornato told lawmakers that Mayor Bowser rejected the request for additional Guard troops in Washington, D.C. “Meadows,” he said, “wanted to know if she needed any more guardsmen.”
        https://thefederalist.com/2024/03/11/liz-cheney-covered-up-trumps-push-for-national-guard-on-j6-in-political-memoir/
        Trump asked for it. But really it was up to Pelosi as she had responsibility
        And they have lied about it all.
        
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        June 29, 2024 8:25pm
      - RichardX
        
        You could try answering the questions I asked.
        
        All I want is evidential answers to the following questions regarding Otto’s claims.
        Who did Trump ask for troops?
        When did Trump ask for troops?
        How did Pelosi refuse Trump’s request for troops?
        
        You have still not provided this.
        
        The quotes below are directly from your text.
        
        “he overheard White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows push Washington D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser to request as many National Guard troops as she needed to protect the city.”
        This is NOT Trump requesting troops.
        
        ”President Trump had suggested 10,000 would be needed to keep the peace”
        This is NOT Trump requesting troops.
        
        ”President Trump did in fact offer 10,000 National Guard troops to secure the U.S. Capitol”
        This is NOT Trump requesting troops.
        
        ” ‘He is willing to ask for 10,000.’ “
        This is NOT Trump requesting troops.
        
        ”Bowser declined the offer”
        This is NOT Pelosi refusing the request for troops.
        
        ”When the D.C. mayor declined Trump’s offer of 10,000 troops, Ornato said the White House requested a “quick reaction force” out of the Defense Department in case it was needed.”
        This is NOT Trump requesting troops and this is NOT Pelosi refusing the request for troops.
        
        ”He also testified President Trump had suggested 10,000 would be needed to keep the peace at the public rallies and protests scheduled for January 6, 2021,”
        This is NOT Trump requesting troops.
        
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        June 29, 2024 9:24pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Trump asked his staff to order or prepare the Troops
        In fact the Troops were deployed and waited in car parking buildings
        But Trump didnt ask on the day- that was probably Pelosis call to ask as she was actually there and in charge of the Capitol and her Staff declined- on her behalf.
        He also asked three days before Jan 6 according to Sec Millers evidence
        
        ‘Former Acting Defense Secretary Christopher Miller told a House of Representatives panel that he spoke with Trump on Jan. 3, three days before the now-former president’s fiery speech that preceded the violence and led to his second impeachment.
        According to Miller’s testimony, Trump asked during that meeting whether the District of Columbia’s mayor had requested National Guard troops for Jan. 6, the day Congress was to ratify Joe Biden’s presidential election victory.
        Trump told Miller to “fill” the request, the former defense secretary testified. Miller said Trump told him: “Do whatever is necessary to protect demonstrators that were executing their constitutionally protected rights.”
        https://www.reuters.com/world/us/congresswoman-says-trump-administration-botched-capitol-riot-preparations-2021-05-12/
        
        I have explained to you Trump never asked Pelosi directly.
        Why would he?
        As I have said, it really was up to Pelosi to ASK on the day as she was in charge
        The Guard was deployed and waiting.
        Which she acknowledges in the video where she takes responsibility.
        As to the rest of your pathetic rebuttal you are splitting hairs and you are grasping at straws demanding proof that Trump made the calls to staff personally
        Trumps staff did and Sund (Pelosi’s staff also asked)
        Give it up
        There is clear evidence Trump wanted the Guard and had it deployed in readiness
        Witnesses have testified they heard him ask his staff for it
        There is clear evidence (Video!) of Pelosi admitting fault and responsibility for them not being there
        There is clear evidence of Pelosi’s staff declining the offer- on her behalf
        There is clear evidence that Testimony has been suppressed.
        
        Semantics arent going to wriggle you out of being wrong
        BTW, where are your Citations proving all of this wrong?
        In fact, you have confirmed Sunds Testimony is correct
        He asked and was declined
        LOL
        
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        June 29, 2024 10:05pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘Didnt ask Miller on the day’- Jan 6- which Miller also testified.
        
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        June 29, 2024 10:24pm
      - RichardX
        
        Steve Otto(North Shore)
        What is never reported is the infiltration of the Trump rally was on social media 2 weeks before Jan 6th. Pelosi knew, Trump knew. Trump wanted 22,000 National Guard Troops for security. Pelosi refused. 10,000 Troops and she still refused.
        Pelosi knew it was going to get nasty. Even helped her daughter setting her up to video it all.
        10,000 Troops would have stopped it in it’s tracks. Fact checkers say the request for Troops is false. Note, they write items about the false claim but it is all wild goose chases, naming other people that say false. The TDS is strong. Troop request was real.
        
        AUGUST 25, 2023 10:42AM
        
        This is what I am refuting.
        Otto has made this claim in various forms many times.
        
        This is why I asked the questions I asked.
        Who did Trump ask for troops?
        When did Trump ask for troops?
        How did Pelosi refuse Trump’s request for troops?
        
        I never claimed Trump asked Pelosi.
        Why would Trump ask Pelosi?
        It would be a ridiculous proposition that disregards the chain of command.
        
        Do you not realise that I was repeating your quotes to you even when I stated “The quotes below are directly from your text.”?
        Do you not realise that your quotes do not support Otto’s claims?
        
        Again from your text;
        “Do whatever is necessary to protect demonstrators that were executing their constitutionally protected rights.” is NOT trump requesting troops
        
        You state Jan 3rd in your rebuttal. Otto refers to ”2 weeks before Jan 6th” so you agree that Otto is wrong in his claim regarding timing.
        
        You have not provided anything but assertions and your interpretation that Trump requested troops.
        The very articles you linked to and quoted do not support your claim that Trump requested troops.
        If Trump did not request troops, Pelosi could not have denied Trump’s request, as is claimed by Otto.
        
        ”As I have said, it really was up to Pelosi to ASK on the day as she was in charge” is NOT Pelosi refusing Trump’s request for troops.
        
        Even your conclusion misses the whole point of my interest in this topic.
        
        You stating In fact, you have confirmed Sunds Testimony is correct
        He asked and was declined is NOT Trump requesting troops and is NOT Pelosi refusing Trump’s request for troops.
        
        You’ve answered the question on timing and proved Otto wrong.
        Do you want to try again on the other 2 questions?
        Who did Trump ask for troops?
        How did Pelosi refuse Trump’s request for troops?
        
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        June 29, 2024 10:50pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Pelosi:
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtHUYpyi5-Y
    
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    June 29, 2024 12:26pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Indeed Steve
      Its Nancy Pelosi being filmed by her daughter admitting that she had responsibility for security at the Capitol and why the Guard hadn’t been called.
      I have to wonder if her staff didnt tell her of the requests?
      Requests which were obviously made (Testimony under Oath)
      She does seen genuinely surprised
      Unless she was drunk as usual.
      
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      June 29, 2024 9:14pm
- Jethrod
  
  Cassius Clay was using a metaphor to get across what he was thinking( he probably didn’t know it was a metaphor but , there). William Shakespeare used a lot of metaphor’s in his writing(“is this a dagger I see before me….”) and he has been gone 408 years, so 60 years is neither here nor there.
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:29am
  - jkt
    
    Trump also uses metaphors all the time …. I understand those used by Shakespeare and Cassius Clay without the assistance of fact checkers.
    
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    June 29, 2024 11:09am
- cmm
  
  IMHO by far the most damaging part of Biden’s performance was after the “debate” had ended – when he needed Jill to physically help him down the stairs with another person hovering close by to catch him if he fell.
  
  I suspect that if Biden does not pull out voluntarily then he will die peacefully in his sleep.
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:05am
  - JackRabbit
    
    I suspect that if Biden does not pull out voluntarily then he will die peacefully in his sleep.
    
    In my opinion he is already brain dead, and would lack the awareness to voluntarily do anything. His latent fetish for touching and sniffing young girls is probably just a stimulus response.
    
    He does not even know what day it is, or left from right.
    
    Mary Shelley’s characters had more life in them.
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:38am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Jill Biden, beaming: “You did such a good job… you answered all the questions!!”
    
    One wonders if Joe got a dinosaur stamp and a lollipop to take home.
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:50am
    - cmm
      
      Surely any democrat seeing that must cringe.
      
      The thought that this is “the most powerful man in the world”, as USAians like to say, is somewhat alarming.
      
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      June 29, 2024 2:41pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Its ironic that he met her when she was baby sitting his kids.
    Bet she didn’t think she’d end up changing the whole families nappies!
    
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    June 29, 2024 1:17pm
- G152
  
  Politics is the art of lying.
  If Biden had been more lucid his lies would have been heard.
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:22am
  - JackRabbit
    
    In order to lie you have to have some awareness of truth. A jellyfish has more awareness than Biden.
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:39am
- Paulus
  
  Trump does not have to say anything more now, just let senile Joe and his cohorts do the damage to themselves, which they are doing.
  Joe I am your age but know when to pull out and stop doing, when I am told – and we were married over 60 years ago the other day.
  I am not as senile as you are Joe, so face up to it.
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:25am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Biden was lying with every utterance, he said the boarder control endorsed them, they quickly got on X to say they have never and never will endorse Biden, so a clear lie, but global media counted Trumps lies, statements they decide are lies not factual in many instances, but no mention of Biden lies, another example is that story Trump said the troops were losers, completely debunked by all top military there, accept the one guy that Trump fired, and he only said he said it after being fired.
  
  Yes Biden lied s the way through
  
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  June 29, 2024 11:15am
- Jake Dee
  
  Furthermore, he has publicly claimed to have “Murdered a rock, injured a stone and hospitalized a brick” and yet no police reports or hospital records from this period have ever been found to corroborate these claims.
  
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  June 29, 2024 7:36pm
peterwn

So the Russians have banned 36 more Kiwis from visiting Russia. How do you get on the list?
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June 29, 2024 8:22am
- Simon
  
  New Zealanders shouldn’t have any assets in China either.
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:17am
  - JackRabbit
    
    When the Ardern dictatorship was in full swing, that’s what some expat NZer’s said about assets and NZ.
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:40am
- krazykiwi
  
  I’ve been, and enjoyed every minute there. Incredible history, architecture, history. Russians know how to carefully distrust their leaders, something that New Zealand’s hook-line-and-sinker Ardern worshipers could have, but didn’t learn from.
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:56am
  - imalwaysright
    
    The way the media talk about Putin you would think he was an antivax climate denier !
    
    Russia sounds great, love to go there.
    
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    June 29, 2024 1:25pm
Matt Long

US Sepreme Court has overturned some of the most fallacious charges against January 6th protestors.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme-court-rules-favor-jan-6-capitol-riot-participant-challenged-obstruction-conviction
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June 29, 2024 8:32am
- JJ56
  
  Perhaps more significant is the overturn of the Chevon deference precedent https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/06/28/us/supreme-court-chevron
  
  [paywalled. mod.]
  
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  June 29, 2024 1:04pm
Benedict Yu

If MSNBC thinks that it is all over for Biden, it must be bad. 😳

Rachel Maddow looks stunned.

https://youtu.be/2_clVA97rN0?si=T8w8C93K8mB_CE94
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June 29, 2024 8:34am
- jkt
  
  If anyone was surprised by the performance of the two debaters, that tells one so much about their bias and/or ignorance.
  
  The two gentlemen demonstrated clearly what they think and what they represent.
  
  Americans face a stark choice at the polls.
  
  I was impressed that Biden could still play a round of golf with his grandson.
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:30am
  - Mike
    
    Pity the American voter.
    
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    June 29, 2024 9:51am
  - Mod88
    
    A Mini-putt course perhaps and even that is a maybe…
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:32am
    - jkt
      
      Not true. But, that aside..
      Making your way around a golf course is actually not that hard.
      
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      June 29, 2024 11:15am
      - CJames
        
        Especially if you do it on an electric golf cart driven by a Secret Service agent.
        
        9 0
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        June 29, 2024 12:04pm
      - jkt
        
        CJ
        
        Imagine that! Yet two people put their hands up to do the job! Why would anyone in his right mind put his or her hand up to do this job …….. That’s right, ….. now I remember!
        
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        June 29, 2024 3:03pm
RoboRob

After watching the first part of yesterdays presidential debate and the seeing joe speak with Jill at rally afterwards, I was left wondering about recent Dem claims of : cheap fakes’.

How was Joe speaking so much better, clearer and stronger, at the rally? It strikes me that the cheap fakes are real but I’m reverse. How long have team Biden been using volume and auto tune to strengthen and clean bidens speech? How long have the media been selecting only the best snips and camera angles?

It turns out that the Republican videos were the accurate ones and the rest might bee cheap fakes.
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June 29, 2024 8:43am
- JackRabbit
  
  It turns out that the Republican videos were the accurate ones and the rest might bee cheap fakes.
  
  A.I. and CGI maybe?
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:41am
Tasman devil

Biden is sponsored by The Coalition of Chinese Rest Homes.
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June 29, 2024 8:56am
All_on_Red

Obama speaks
“Bad debate nights happen. Trust me, I know. But this election is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life and someone who only cares about himself. Between someone who tells the truth; who knows right from wrong and will give it to the American people straight — and someone who lies through his teeth for his own benefit. Last night didn’t change that, and it’s why so much is at stake in November.”

Looks like they still back Joe. Obama is probably the only one who can force him out. Will Obama risk starting an internal war if he does?
They are running out of time.

Heres a list of some of Bidens lies
https://thefederalist.com/2024/06/28/here-are-the-20-biggest-whoppers-biden-told-during-his-debate-with-trump/
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June 29, 2024 9:00am
- MCōs
  
  There’s only one person who can force Joe Biden to step aside besides the Grim Reaper and that’s Joe Biden because he has the numbers
  Same applies to Donald Trump of course
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:12am
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    Jill Biden will make the decision.
    
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    June 29, 2024 9:18am
  - yossarian
    
    Hilary Clinton knows the grim reaper personally. Perhaps she will call on him again for another ‘favour’
    
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    June 29, 2024 9:46am
    - imalwaysright
      
      “Hilary Clinton knows the grim reaper personally”
      
      She puts a lot of work his way…
      
      9 2
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      June 29, 2024 10:32am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Killary is one of the Democrats who will stoop that low.
      Possibly the most dangerous woman in the World.
      Has a credit account with the Grim Reaper.
      
      5 2
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      June 29, 2024 12:47pm
- Taieri
  
  someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life
  ———–
  
  A great joke this one…
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:15am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Did he tell us which one was which?
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:23am
  - All_on_Red
    
    I was thinking that too!
    
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    June 29, 2024 9:25am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    …and while he is at it, perhaps he could explain what happened to his cook? Clinton playbook?
    
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    June 29, 2024 9:26am
- JackRabbit
  
  Like Ardern and those on the left, you can save a lot of time by safely assuming it was all big whoppers.
  
  The man is a walking coma.
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:31am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Trouble is Biden will not run away as his lies catch up with him like Ardern did.
    Joe does not know he has been lying.
    
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    June 29, 2024 12:50pm
    - mawm
      
      Joe is displaying all the symptoms of someone with short-term memory loss, and because he can’t remember anything he has to make up this stories that have no resemblance to reality. This is a typical scenario in several psychiatric diseases such as dementia. I can’t understand why anybody is surprised by his performance last night, it’s been that way for several years.
      
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      June 29, 2024 4:14pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Yes, I’ve seen that with old people of my acquaintance. It really is elder abuse.
        
        3 0
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        June 29, 2024 6:29pm
- Gravelroad
  
  What a come-down for former President Obama that he was pressed into service to defend an incumbent President like this.
  Embarrassing.
  But, power at any price. Must keep the socialists in office even if their current leader is not up to the job and they have no-one else capable.
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:31am
  - Mike
    
    If you think the Democratic Party is socialist, you must be very easily persuadable and probably think ACT is a socialist party too.
    
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    June 29, 2024 9:54am
    - Geri Sjovik
      
      Tell me how ACT isn’t socialist?
      
      It’s just less socialist than the others.
      
      9 2
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      June 29, 2024 11:21am
      - Mike
        
        No True Scotsman?
        
        2 9
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        June 29, 2024 12:29pm
  - Paulus
    
    Of course there are other people capable, but the Democrat system and the arrangers only want it their way.
    For a price of course, as its the old USA, where only money counts.
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:30am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Most were pretty good. No 19 was not really true as Sleepy Joe corrected himself.
  
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  June 29, 2024 11:20am
oldpark

New rates increase for Wellington Home owners circa 18.5% . Just a couple of reasons beside many more .
Labour and Green Party committed Wellington Ratepayers to pay circa 600 Million Dollars on a couple of waste of space projects .
The old antediluvian Town Hall 340 plus Million Dollars .Not forgetting the carpet bagger who arrived from Waikato a” greenie”on the Council who locked Wellington Ratepayers into another 250 plus Million Dollars for the jokes that keep giving and disrupting common sense? “Bicycle Tracks” .
Of course the Labour /Green control freaks who committed so much angst and financial pain to fixed income homeowners are enjoying huge incomes paid for the Ratepayers with much more pain and angst to come .
Sadly they will get voted back in again by allowing non property owning households to vote and pushing the debatable propaganda using Labour/Greenie Ideology .
Mostly temporary students doing a degree can vote at Council Elections but don’t pay Rates or usurious mind blowing exorbitant Rate increases.Nuff Said .
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June 29, 2024 9:07am
- Paulus
  
  Why can’t they revert to the old days when only a named Property Owner voted ?
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:31am
- krazykiwi
  
  Wellington landlords should publish to their tenants what portion of their rent is attributable to rates, and then project the rental increases as each rates hike extortion comes due.
  
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  June 29, 2024 11:00am
  - MCōs
    
    Anyone can find out the rates on a particular property. My previous house in Ngaio is $6073 which is $117/wk. an additional 18..5% is $21.60
    On the other hand when I rented my house out it was for a fixed period at market rates and my expenses didn’t come into it particularly if I had good tenants
    
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    June 29, 2024 11:30am
    - cmm
      
      “Anyone can find out the rates on a particular property.”
      
      That’s not the point.
      
      If it was itemised on the bill then it gives the renters some feedback. Maybe they will be a bit less inclined to vote for “free stuff” because it doesn’t cost them anything.
      
      Of course it costs them – in their rent bills.
      
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      June 29, 2024 2:45pm
  - Handyman
    
    I agree and have proposed this before.
    eg rent is $400 plus rates (pro rata).
    Make it clear that the “rent” will automatically increase to reflect council rates.
    
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    June 29, 2024 11:32am
    - MCōs
      
      Doesn’t work that way.
      The rent reflects how much the market value of the house.
      A landlord can only put the rent up once a year and the tenant has the option of vacating the premises. Otherwise what’s to stop the rent going up when the insurance inevitably rises or lawn mowing charges increases . . . . .
      
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      June 29, 2024 3:36pm
BeaB

Good old RNZ. Biden had a ‘difficult’ debate. Trump told lies. Just as well we don’t have to rely on our media for the truth. We can watch the debate and make up our own minds.
In fact Biden had a disastrous debate and he told lies too, lots of them, many fact-checked by his ally the New York Times.
Trump looked powerful, strong and calm. He may have told lies but he also told many truths, again according to the NY Times fact checker.
He won hands down.
But he may not win against a younger more attractive candidate and there is little doubt the Democrats are searching for him right now. The best thing for Trump would be their choosing Kamala Harris. Now that would be a debate. And great entertainment.
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June 29, 2024 9:17am
- Grunter
  
  I’m pickingHilary Clinton will force her way back in. They have few options. Ultimately these with the money will pull the strings. And they won’t keep Biden.
  
  The whole debate was a set up IMO. Why was it scheduled so early in the election race? It’s usually a few months before the election. The Dems needed demented Joe to look bad so they can now replace him.
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:42am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Killary is universally despised. She is one person of few who have more ego than Trump
    
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    June 29, 2024 11:02am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Despised or not, if the Democrats think it is the only way to hold on to the Swamp they will do it.
      
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      June 29, 2024 1:01pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Maybe the Joe Show is to make Killary look good.
        
        Joe makes Hunter look good.
        
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        June 29, 2024 1:40pm
      - Colville
        
        They are not that stupid. Trump would trash her.
        
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        June 29, 2024 1:47pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘I’m pickingHilary Clinton ‘
    So you keep telling us. Over and over and over again.
    You’ll be wrong though- again.
    
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    June 29, 2024 12:01pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    Manifold prediction markets for the Democratic nomination has,
    Biden at 77% (was at 94% before the debate, dropped to a low of 64%)
    Kamala Harris is at 12% (was at 3% before the debate)
    Next in the rankings is Gavin Newsom at 6%
    Hillary Clinton doesn’t rank.
    
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    June 29, 2024 8:07pm
- RoboRob
  
  I noticed the NZ medias soft approach to covering the debate. I don’t understand why they feel the need to defend Joe. I guess the hatred for trump is too strong. With even CNN and MSNBC forced to admit Bidens age is an issue, you would think Rnz, tvnz and newshub might do more than parrot the Dem talking points.
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:20am
  - NothingLeft
    
    NZ Legacy Media are tribal left. In US terms; “vote blue no matter who”. They’d defend Hitler if he had a (D) next to his name.
    
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    June 29, 2024 5:13pm
- bennerg
  
  I do not believe anything is happening by chance with the Democrats in America. Everything is being carefully choreographed, and has been for a long time. Even Kamala Harris was placed there to protect Joe’s position as President for the duration, as no-one on either side wants Kamala to be the first female president, or just president for that matter.
  
  I also believe that the Democrats are divided. Hillary was “meant” to win when she went up against Trump, and is still smarting that she never got to be the first “Madam President”. She is the potential thorn in the side of “the Plan”.
  
  Those in power inside the Democratic party have not wanted to have a run off, as did the Republicans, as it would have been a risk for “the Plan”, whereby Joe is kept in power, and on the ticket, simply to thwart any other candidate coming to prominence. Simply a useful idiot.
  
  Sometime prior to the election, Joe will have a medical event, or accident, not enough to unseat him as President, and put Kamala in power, but enough to allow him to step down from the campaign and allow … tada … Michelle Obama to reluctantly take his place on the ticket. This will minimise the finance required to be raised, and I suspect have the same effect as seen on New Zealand when Jacinda Ardern took over the reigns from the lacklustre Andrew Little, a short time prior to our election. The media will play along with this on cue to boost the popularity.
  
  I suspect her current “reluctance” is all for show, and I would also posit she is already “in training”, and will come out in full force, with Barack beside her to assure people that she will be “well supported” with his experience. A fresh face, supported by a 2 (or is it 3) term president. What could there be not to like about this proposal?
  
  Barack will then become the only person to be in that position of power for potentially 5 terms.
  
  The Democrats are not stupid, they as well as any of us can see Joe is decrepit, and not fit for purpose – well yes, for the purpose he is serving right now, and that is to obstruct any other opposition to “the plan”, and able to be told when to “fall over” on cue.
  
  Watch this space.
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:39am
  - Colville
    
    Utter bollocks.
    
    It would be a very simple story for Trump to yell at rallies…
    
    “you are being manipulated”
    
    and he would be 100% correct.
    
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    June 29, 2024 1:50pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Interesting theory. Time will tell.
    
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    June 29, 2024 6:32pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  “there is little doubt the Democrats are searching for him right now. ”
  
  Should be
  
  there is little doubt the Democrats are searching for him or her right now.
  
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  June 29, 2024 11:23am
  - bennerg
    
    Sorry, I was not implying Michelle was “Michael” as some are claiming.
    
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    June 29, 2024 2:34pm
imalwaysright

China and Russias wet dream is for Biden or any other Democrat to get reelected.
USA will complete its self destruction.
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June 29, 2024 9:27am
- RoboRob
  
  Now the world can see why Putin felt he could invade Ukraine. We see why Iran, north Korea and China are all emboldened. If I was Taiwan I would be very very nervous.
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:22am
  - balanceplease
    
    NZ should be nervous too. It was only 82 years ago the US stopped the Japanese advance at the battle of the Coral Sea, right next to Australia. We like to forget this kind of history. A politically inept US may not protect us next time.
    Its 5 months to the next US election, Ardern only needed 2 months to replace Andrew Little and win the next NZ election.
    
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    June 29, 2024 11:23am
    - gravedodger
      
      Nah balance she came a closer second to English than Little was destined to on polling, then a certain Mr Peters selected her as PM for a better deal than he was ever going to get going with the highest polling party,National.
      
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      June 29, 2024 11:49am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Correct balance. They might be busy fighting internal terrorism from the terrorists from every country they ever screwed who have crossed the border unimpeded thanks to Biden.
      
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      June 29, 2024 11:53am
Tom Hunter

Not that many people in NZ, and perhaps not even in America, give a shit but this is a huge Supreme Court decision, NCLA Persuades Supreme Court to Overturn Chevron Deference.

And all because NOAA put cameras on fishing boats and then charged them for it. And as another example of out-of-control bureaucracy, this happened during the Trump Administration and I doubt even the head of NOAA knew about it, let alone anybody further up the scale. I looked at this a few months ago

And there was a big decision on the J6 cases that also stuffs the government back in a box. But probably only for a while.
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June 29, 2024 9:33am
- Mike
  
  The supreme court decided to ignore the plain law as passed by congress so making it impossible for federal agencies to regulate a whole host of damaging activities.
  This is designed to handicap federal agencies in executing congressional direction to regulate activities and forced them to take much more expensive legal action through the federal courts. This means that most environmental protection laws, for one example, will be impossible to enforce.
  Tom doesn’t believe elected representatives should delegate detailed decision-making to protect health, the environment or human rights. He prefers these things to be protected by the benign operation of corporations.
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:06am
- krazykiwi
  
  A great decision. Congress will need to pass clear legislation now. The days of deliberately vague legislation that could be interpreted by a burgeoning administrative state are coming to a close. Next Trump should take a leaf out of Milei’s book and crush a few swamp-lurking administrative organizations.
  
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  June 29, 2024 11:08am
  - Mike
    
    It’s a bad decision. The legislature cannot write laws at such a level of specificity.
    An analogy here would be requiring all rules to be included in acts of parliament rather than subordinate legislation.
    
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    June 29, 2024 11:46am
    - All_on_Red
      
      No its not. Its a good decision.
      It now stops Federal Agencies interpreting Legislation as they see fit and Judges having to defer to their view.
      Overturning the Chevron deference will inhibit massive overreach, abuse of power and exceeding authority by Agencies ie unelected officials with Agendas.
      Now those agencies will have to justify their views in a Courtroom and affected parties will get a fair hearing.
      
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      June 29, 2024 11:59am
      - Mike
        
        It means that congress needs to pass incredibly detailed and lengthy legislation to cover rules which are better determined and enforced by specialist agencies. The objective of the court was to limit the ability of agencies to exercise the powers that had been expressly assigned to them in legislation. The result is to make it much harder to enforce the regulations which might hamper republican justices’ billionaire friends from making more money by disregarding health, environmental and human rights protections.
        
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        June 29, 2024 12:09pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Yeah nah
        The Agencies were interpreting the legislation and abusing their position
        Now there will be more balanced Court hearings and a Judge will decide on the merits.
        And perhaps check out how well Democrat aligned Billionaires have done on Climate legislation…
        https://nypost.com/2023/08/19/bidens-vacation-at-billionaire-tom-steyers-18m-lake-tahoe-mansion/
        You’re so funny with your BS
        
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        June 29, 2024 12:43pm
      - marcw
        
        Like the ATF’s ruling on what constitutes a firearms “seller”, and therefore an extra licence and fee. Five hundred pages of regulations, which none of the current firearms retailers could understand. Many are now selling up and retiring, as the ATF can virtually make up any rule it likes, and will use their decision to harrass or even institute a “no knock” home search warrant, with deadly force.
        
        Ask the private seller Bryan Malinowski from Little Rock, AK what he thinks of the ATF – oh, that’s right, you can’t. The ATF carried out one of these warrants before dawn, and shot him dead when he defended his family and home.
        
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        June 29, 2024 1:33pm
      - Mike
        
        I’ll address macrw’s point, rather than All_on_Red’s unhinged abuse.
        The ATF was established by congress and is charged by congress with enforcing federal firearms laws, among other function. To do so effectively, congress gave it the power to make and enforce regulations to license sellers of firearms.
        The supreme court is now saying that only congress itself can make the detailed regulations and those regulations can only be enforced through the federal courts. This makes a nonsense of the law as passed by congress, as the actual purpose of the supreme court’s decision is to make it simply much harder to make and enforceany regulations.
        
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        June 29, 2024 2:01pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Awww blub blub blub
        BS- lol
        How many times have you been suspended for your ‘unhinged abuse’
        WORST kiwiblog offender ever.
        
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        June 29, 2024 2:30pm
      - Mike
        
        I think All_on_Red had lost this one, given his inability to amswer an argument
        
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        June 29, 2024 2:45pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      It’s great as it reduces power of unelected bureaucrats with their innate tendency to mission creep and empire growing. Regulation will need to be explicitly agreed and voted upon by congress, not invented by activists ensconced within monolithic grey unaccountable bureaucracies.
      
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      June 29, 2024 5:19pm
Tauhei Notts

I want to see Trump as the president.
Many disagree with me.
But I think he stuffed up yesterday. He showed exactly how hopeless Biden is.
Biden WILL be replaced and any new contender will be a serious opponent for “my man”.
Maybe Trump should have gone a bit easier on the senile one, and then Trump could coast to victory.
We saw this last October. Luxon refused to campaign on how the Labour regime was the worst in N.Z.’s history. Had he done so National could have got 62 seats or more for themselves. No coalition. But for some unfathomable reason he went easy on hopeless Hipkins.
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June 29, 2024 9:38am
- BeaB
  
  In fact he was remarkably dignified and restrained and this drew even more attention to Biden’s senility.
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:10am
  - Paulus
    
    Biden drew his only reflection of his own senility.
    
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    June 29, 2024 10:33am
- RoboRob
  
  I don’t think Trump stuffed up. Bidens performance was out of his control. He did well to avoid looking to mean to Biden.
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:23am
  - Colville
    
    A bit of restraint and dignity was good for Trump.
    
    Less is sometimes more.
    
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    June 29, 2024 1:53pm
- gravedodger
  
  Tbf Tauhei I do not think Team Trump wants Biden replaced and that explains much of his often uncharacteristic effort. yesterday.
  This “debate” was scheduled much earlier by the Democrats with Trumps agreement to allow more time to push Joe under a bus and then get his replacement up and running.
  One would have to be as cognitively challenged as Joe hisself not to understand whatever happened yesterday was not going to reveal just how starkly the decline for the POTUS really is.
  He has been shielded for months now and there was just no way with training and drug use he was going to be revealed as any thing other than the vegetable he really is.
  Elder abuse writ large for all to watch
  
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  June 29, 2024 11:57am
- Bridgenag
  
  You do wonder why he is still the climate change man……..
  
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  June 29, 2024 12:53pm
I remember when

Biden tells rally “I don’t debate as well as I used to.”

At last a political statement we can all agree with.
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June 29, 2024 9:59am
BeaB

It would have been a huge injustice if Golriz had not been convicted. It was the least the judge could do.
But the judge sounded as though she was writing a testimonial for Golriz, using such glowing language you had to ask why this person of such outstanding character and social conscience could be in court at all. No common thief this one.
I expect we shall hear from her again as she launches campaigns on mental illness, PTSD, law reform – the possibilities are endless – and we have the judge to thank for alerting us to her wonderful attributes and potential.
If only those irksome shopkeepers had been more generous and just given her what she coveted and didn’t want to pay for.
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June 29, 2024 10:08am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  On her salary the fine of $1600 was ridiculous.
  It should have been $16,000.
  
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  June 29, 2024 1:09pm
cmm

Could yesterday’s “debate” have been a cunning Democrat ploy?

Biden had to go – that was pretty obvious from a few months ago. So yesterday’s farce was a way to throw him under the bus and clear the road for a replacement.

But by making the focus on Biden being a doddery old man, they can say “hey Trump is getting old too. Not as old as Joe, but look how Joe has aged in the last 4 years – that might happen to Trump too.”

That half drags Trump under the bus too and, perhaps they hope, that would give a younger candidate a lot of pull.
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June 29, 2024 10:14am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I have worked professionally with a few people in their 70s. Including late 70s. They were all high performing. But to my knowledge I have not worked with anyone in their 80s. There is a reason for that.
  
  If you look at car crash data by age, the picture is stark. On average 75 year olds do not have materially higher accident rates than 55 year olds.
  
  Beyond 75, the accident rates rise, and beyond 80 that rise becomes steeper. Noticeably, there is a steep rise in intersection crashes where drivers are required to compute distance and time involving multiple vehicles. Not a perfect proxy for cognitive ability but it can’t be ignored.
  
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  June 29, 2024 10:46am
  - Mike
    
    Instead of an age qualification of 3o years, the presidency should have an age limit of 75.
    
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    June 29, 2024 11:03am
    - Bridgenag
      
      The blokes at bowls reckon 45-65 limit
      
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      June 29, 2024 12:55pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  You are quite correct with your summation cmm.
  People with inside knowledge of the situation who wish to remain anonymous have told my partner…. it will be Gavin Newsome with Hillary as VP.
  
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  June 29, 2024 11:02am
  - jkt
    
    Hillary at 75!!
    Why the hell would that be a good plan. It is pretty much like putting an octogenarian up for that position.
    Who in their right mind would do that?
    
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    June 29, 2024 11:20am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Roger Stone dropped her name in the mix after the debate.
      Gavin Newsome is the chosen one.
      
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      June 29, 2024 11:57am
      - CJames
        
        If you think Gavin is the answer – he has all the worst traits of Joe, Hillary and Nancy.
        https://www.frontpagemag.com/the-real-gavin-newsom/
        The rest of the US will never forgive California if he is inflicted on them.
        
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        June 29, 2024 12:12pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Makes him sound like the perfect candidate for the Dems I’d say CJ 😀
        
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        June 29, 2024 12:19pm
      - Matt Long
        
        And yet I would have agreed with you Maggie, Newsome has perfect leftist credentials in turning California into a socialist wasteland that for the first time ever lost population.
        However Scott Adams pointed out this morning the Dems will never elevate a White Male over top of a black female, so Newsome has no hope unless Kamala removes herself as well.
        
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        June 29, 2024 2:39pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Don’t bet your house. The chances of that are zero.
    
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    June 29, 2024 11:33am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Imagine being president with Killary as your vice president!
    
    You’d be a nervous wreck listening for the click.
    
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    June 29, 2024 2:58pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Younger? Killary is 76.
  
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  June 29, 2024 1:11pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Yes clearly part of theatrical process to rid themselves of Biden ‘for good of country’ after exploiting the empty shirt to run their agenda for last 3 years. Top insiders have known this was coming, but Biden is probably refusing to resign, so they are creating conditions and narrative to allow them to insert their preferred candidate without all that annoying democracy getting in way of what the star chamber wants to do.
  
  Probably hoping to pressure Obama into it (to solve their Kamala ‘black chick’ problem) with Newsom as backup. Perhaps a double ticket? Obama President, Newsom VP and then Obama can resign after election with First female president scalp to her name as she doesn’t like the job.
  
  They can get rid of Biden and Kamala with large enough payoffs in money and guarantees of pardons/non-prosecution for Biden family. California Governorship (replacing Newsom + cash) or Supreme Court Justice for Kamala.
  
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  June 29, 2024 2:23pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Steve Bannon theory that it’s Obama they are lining up as a ‘reluctant saviour’, signalled by a prominent Washington publication Axios running a major puff piece on her on day of debate: https://youtu.be/hR4CpQhKseA?t=161
  
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  June 29, 2024 2:41pm
Redapplefalls

Do you think the MSM will try to force the cat back into the bag after last nights debate?

After their initial reaction of shock at the scale of the disaster and the exposure of their rampant deceit on the ‘fitness’ of Joe Biden, will ‘cooler heads’ prevail in the morning? After all, the complete contempt that the lower midwits of the media and beaurocracy have for the voting public must surely convince them that if they can just spin it hard enough…. anything is possible!
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June 29, 2024 10:50am
- Mike
  
  Anything can be spun. For example, many people still believe Trump is a successful and honest businessman and a God-fearing and faithful family man.
  
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  June 29, 2024 11:09am
  - Redapplefalls
    
    I mention ‘lower midwits’ and the ability to spin and look who shows up! I rest my case.
    
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    June 29, 2024 11:57am
  - newview
    
    I agree with Mike. Whatever you think of Biden Trump is a moral degenerate and a liar in my, and a lot of other people’s opinion. That was plain to see in the debate. Trump didn’t answer any questions directly but just tried to discredit Biden. What ever is said on this forum is just opinion.
    
    4 11
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    June 29, 2024 1:30pm
    - Redapplefalls
      
      What do you mean ‘whatever you think of Biden’? We don’t have to speculate about Biden any more. It was laid out in every gory detail that the man is a slack jawed dotard. He has dementia. When he is staring, wide eyed, pupils dilated with his chin on his chest he is looking at the afterlife. This is your guy. You are not moral because Trump offends your delicate sensibilities. You are a coward because you can’t confront the fact that Biden is cooked. That the man you supported has left the world on the brink of WWIII and has absolutely nothing of value to offer and never did.
      
      9 2
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      June 29, 2024 3:51pm
      - Mike
        
        I believe he is simply stating the facts: both men are incapable due to age and infirmity. Biden has become increasingly incapable, while Trump has always been an ignorant lying crook and a moral degenerate.
        
        1 6
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        June 29, 2024 5:15pm
      - Redapplefalls
        
        “Both men are incapable due to age and infirmity”. Simply a lie. Trump is not incapable because of age and infirmity. He has taken the relative tests and passed. Biden….. ?
        
        “Trump has always been an ignorant lying crook and a moral degenerate” That’s your opinion and I’m sure you know the old saw about opinions and a$$holes.
        
        Biden is incapable of being president NOW and God knows how long this has been going on.
        
        6 2
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        June 29, 2024 6:27pm
Don Beckett

This is the opinion of my lawyer friend in Illinois:
“The President has been prancing around naked for some time, but at an agonizing 90 minutes even Yellow Dog Democrats could no longer deny it. Doctor Jill will attempt to keep him in the race, but the polls will turn even more south for him, his campaign donations will fall of a cliff, Democrats will increasingly call for an open convention and Biden will likely drop out between July 1 and July 15, especially after aides begin to inform the media how bad he is when the cameras aren’t on him and what drugs they use to put life in the old zombie. The Chicago convention then in August will witness wild fights inside and outside the convention. It couldn’t happen to a nicer party.”
He is Republican and a political animal – I think he will pick correctly what will happen.
17 3
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June 29, 2024 11:09am
fredonas

Some gems in this article by Sy Hersh 👍
“One of Washington political savants told me today that the Democratic Party is now facing “a national security crisis.” The nation is backing two devastating wars with a president who clearly is not up to it, he said, and it might be time to start drafting a resignation speech that would match or outdo the one given in March of 1968 by President Lyndon Johnson”
“A long retired Senate colleague was invited by Biden to join him on a foreign trip, and the two played cards and shared a drink or two on the Air Force One flight going out. The senator was barred by Biden’s staff from joining the return flight home.”
https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/who-is-running-the-country
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June 29, 2024 11:35am
- Jake Dee
  
  I was just reading up on Section 4 of the 25th amendment. That’s when the president doesn’t want to jump so has to be pushed.
  I don’t think it’s likely that Kamala Harris has enough juice in the cabinet to pull it off.
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:07pm
Ghost

Tom has a better debate than what took place last night Tom MacDonald – “Me vs. You”
3 2
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June 29, 2024 12:00pm
Maggie Pie

“I thort Biden annihilated Trump in yesterdays debate”

– Jack Tame.
17 5
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June 29, 2024 12:04pm
- fredonas
  
  Trump: “I really don’t know what he said at the end of that sentence. I don’t think he knows what he said either.”
  Sums up the debate for me.
  
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  June 29, 2024 12:09pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That got a loud laugh!
  
  7 2
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  June 29, 2024 1:15pm
- waripori
  
  Tame says enough things to annoy you without you needing to make stuff up. What he actually said was Biden can either carry on, lose, and destroy his legacy or step aside for a candidate who has a chance. Have to agree with that dont you?
  
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  June 29, 2024 1:19pm
I remember when

CNN figures show that Trump beat Biden in the Debate 67% – 33%.

So it would seem that 33% of those who voted didn’t watch, or listen to, the Debate.
17 2
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June 29, 2024 12:12pm
- newview
  
  I watched the debate and thought Biden lost badly on presentation and perception but there was plenty of substance in what he said whether you agree or not. What did Trump say that was worth listening to. Not much in my opinion. But like I have said it’s just opinion.
  
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  June 29, 2024 1:39pm
NoFax

There are two problems for the Democratic Party in the US when it comes to Joe Biden. For months, if not years, it’s been very obvious that Biden’s best days are well behind him and he has major cognitive decline. Whether it’s technically dementia or not, for lay people it looks like dementia. However, the Dems and their media allies have been telling you that you shouldn’t believe your lying eyes. It’s just a smear and “cheap fakes” by pouncing Republicans. Of course it’s obvious to all and, therefore, what else is obvious?
The second issue is if Biden isn’t fit to run for a second term then he really isn’t fit to be president now. Biden should resign but I don’t think anyone wants Harris as president.
12 1
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June 29, 2024 1:00pm
lifesgood

I am trying to figure out why Biden wants to remain president. It can’t be for money, it can’t be for fame, it certainly won’t be for respect or high esteem. So what is it? It’s weird.
13 1
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June 29, 2024 1:21pm
- NothingLeft
  
  To keep his family and himself out of jail for all their corruption, and for the money that keeps his family of high spending wastrels afloat.
  
  13 1
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  June 29, 2024 2:01pm
- cmm
  
  Maybe because Jill says he must?
  
  10 1
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  June 29, 2024 2:48pm
  - AitchW
    
    Cmm, sad but probably true.
    
    3 1
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    June 29, 2024 3:31pm
thirteenstars

Looks like Nicola Willis is panning out just like many thought she would, and like many in National’s caucus as woke as hell, after having a snide go at Brian Tamaki because he, and rightly so, opposes adult performers reading woke rubbish to preschoolers at public libraries. As I mentioned the other day:

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/06/general_debate_21_june_2024.html#comment-3577445

Here’s Willis’ reply to Tamaki when he expressed concern the National Party Deputy Leader and Minister of Finance was a follower of the adult performer:

No need to be jealous Brian. I’ll follow you on instagram too if you’ll give lipstick and boas a go.

https://x.com/NicolaWillisMP/status/1805705739979440190

Let’s no forget Willis had no opinion about young girls, even her daughter, having to share bathrooms with adult men, at 2:11:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po4KcAY8QkU
8 2
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June 29, 2024 2:11pm
cmm

It is interesting to see a subtle shift in the way politicians are talking about self defence after the Papatoetoe robbery.

Neither Mark Mitchell nor Ginny Anderson trotted out the old line that the public should not be vigilantes and should rather leave this to the police.

Ginny Anderson added that she was “heartbroken” which is rather useless. All the broken hearts in the world won’t fix this.

There is surely a realization that the police, in their current form anyway, are incapable of handling the situation. Sure, they might have caught the perpetrators, but that’s not enough.

There is no “undo” button to reverse the effects that these violent robberies have on the victims.

If the cops are incapable of the job (which they are), then there is only one other choice: allow people to arm themselves with defensive weapons.

Sure, defensive weapons will occasionally be used to commit crimes, but that can be addressed by punishing anyone who does so.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350323424/are-retailers-having-take-justice-their-own-hands
11 2
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June 29, 2024 3:06pm
- Scott
  
  I’ve been arguing for a while that a retailer should be entitled to use reasonable force to defend themselves and their property. The police can’t get there in time often.
  
  Security guards and the public should be given reasonable latitude to defend themselves against robbers and thieves.
  
  5 2
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  June 29, 2024 3:27pm
  - AitchW
    
    I believe (and am happy to be corrected by someone who is genuinely familiar with the law) that anyone is permitted to use reasonable force in self defence. Whether a court would see use of a semi auto shotgun or rifle as reasonable force would need to be tested.
    (No point in using anything else against multiple offenders. )
    
    4 0
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    June 29, 2024 4:23pm
    - Colville
      
      If you had a firearm located in your shop it would need to be in a safe with the ammo stored seperatley. Police need to have inspected that safe for your license to be valid. There is zero chance of them approving firearm storage in a retail location.
      So they would certainly convict you afterwards.
      
      1 0
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      June 29, 2024 8:32pm
- Don Beckett
  
  Agreed. If I was one of those store owners, I would have some sort of weapon – maybe a sword, preferably not a firearm but would have to be considered. These store owners have been suffering for years & the law has done nothing to help them.
  And smoke cannons are a waste of time.
  
  7 2
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  June 29, 2024 4:15pm
  - Taieri
    
    some sort of weapon – maybe a sword, preferably not a firearm but would have to be considered
    ———–
    
    CO2 fire extinguisher. Works really well and leaves no residue or permanent damage.
    
    3 0
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    June 29, 2024 4:47pm
    - Colville
      
      Is there a particular reason you wouldn’t want to do some damage?
      
      If it were me.. I would want the scrote to have to learn to run wipe his arse with his left hand….
      
      0 1
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      June 29, 2024 8:35pm
  - MCōs
    
    Of course the police can’t be in the vicinity of every dairy to intervene in the case of a robbery.
    As for allowing the shop owners to be armed. We don’t need to speculate on the outcome. There are jurisdictions in the world where this is allowed.
    Incidentally
    Gold shops in Thailand hire armed policemen to sit prominently out the front and still get robbed. The bad guys just wait until they take a toilet break.
    
    3 1
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    June 29, 2024 5:02pm
- Mod88
  
  “Allow” people. You do not need permission to defend yourself or anyone else who is in fear of their life/lives. The force used in Self Defence is to be commensurate with that used against you. That is the Law. It is also a Right. The catchwords are – Be Prepared.
  
  3 1
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  June 29, 2024 5:40pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  ‘There is no “undo” button to reverse the effects that these violent robberies have on the victims.’
  Seems that the police do see that, just not for the victims of gangs and their acolytes. Too hard perhaps to put in some effort ….
  
  “Unfortunately, our staff see the other side of this equation all too often. We’re the ones having to visit families and deliver awful news about their loved ones being involved in serious incidents resulting in injury or death.”
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350326887/arrests-made-multiple-cars-impounded-police-operation-across-country
  
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  June 29, 2024 5:49pm
Maggie Pie

“I would just like to reiterate, there is NO
CORRUPTION in Aoteroa New Zealand”

– Anon talkback caller to ZB.

https://x.com/CranmerWrites/status/1806861926380851359
5 2
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June 29, 2024 3:32pm
krazykiwi

I’m picking Michelle Obama, the reluctant saviour of the Dems, helicoptered in with Barack deftly, and as planned, shifting oversight from Biden to his wife. The DEI crowd won’t be able to contain their joy at the prospect of Michelle, the first black female president up against Trump. Watch for stage managed re-instatement of #MeToo-style attacks on Trump as the Dems try to win back black and female voters. Oh, and Newsom to be vp.
4 2
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June 29, 2024 3:34pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I thought Michelle Obama said no way ever?
  
  6 0
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  June 29, 2024 3:42pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes, that would be on-script.
    
    3 2
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    June 29, 2024 3:52pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Michelle with Barack behind the curtain?
    
    2 2
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    June 29, 2024 4:22pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yep, Barry term five!
      
      1 2
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      June 29, 2024 6:54pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Reluctant saviour storyline. A female black jesus martyr for the country she loves so much.
    
    Which will then grant her cover to be a lazy/mostly absent president where real executive power is granted to the people she ‘hires’ – same as for Biden, the prefered Democrat model of photo-op frontperson with real power hidden behind the curtain. Assuming she doesn’t just resign and hand it to her VP (Newsom?)
    
    4 2
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    June 29, 2024 4:25pm
- MCōs
  
  If Joe Biden was to step aside and that’s a big if, whoever would replace him would have to be prepared for a severe mauling; no matter who they are.
  Not that they would deserve it, because that seems to be the way things are over there.
  Why a black woman such as Michelle Obama, popular and all that she may be would even contemplate going after that job is beyond me.
  Some delusional fools won’t even accept she’s a woman.
  
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  June 29, 2024 4:33pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Big Mike is not a Woman. The whole World except you know this MCos.
    
    1 4
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    June 29, 2024 6:56pm
  - RichardX
    
    Why does Otto continue to lie?
    
    “The whole World except you know[sic] this MCos” is demonstrably false.
    
    “Big Mike is not a Woman.” requires evidence or is just another bullshit claim.
    
    1 3
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    June 29, 2024 7:17pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      There is nothing so dumb as a Leftie who takes something literally when its clearly a piss take based on a meme
      WAFM
      
      1 1
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      June 29, 2024 10:15pm
- Jake Dee
  
  Kamala Harris could be the first female black president with the use of the 25th amendment. Wouldn’t using the vice president to replace the president be easier than using Michelle Obama?
  
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  June 29, 2024 9:20pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Time to say goodbye to Joe.
The United Spot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiQO7Jts7yw
3 2
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June 29, 2024 4:46pm
Maggie Pie

Don’t let the door hit you in the bum on the way out….

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/29/tongan-familys-last-ditch-attempt-to-stop-aunts-deportation-fails/
3 1
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June 29, 2024 6:55pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Good news! This couple and their handicapped brother/ brother-in-law can stay …. in Tonga. All of them are Tongan. There’s nothing in it for NZ to keep them here; quite the reverse.

http://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/29/tongan-familys-last-ditch-attempt-to-stop-aunts-deportation-fails/
4 0
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June 29, 2024 6:58pm
Jake Dee

I know this has kind of been done already, but I find it very interesting that the big question in the MSM and liberal punditocracy is how Biden’s senility will affect his re-election chances but NOT that the President of the United States is senile RIGHT NOW!
The reasoning behind this seems to work something like this, Joe Biden senility causing him to lose the presidency would be a problem because that would give it to Trump and Trump is bad.
However, Biden continuing as president whilst senile is fine because the system works just as well with a mentally impaired person in the big chair.
But what I find really amazing is that the vast majority of people still think this political system can be best described by the term “Democracy”.
If Joe Biden is removed and another candidate is selected, how many of the people who actually do that selection will have been placed there by anything even resembling a popular vote?
Just as the old professors grant PhDs and positions, guide and direct the young candidates through the academic system until they become the professors themselves, so the older political operators do with the younger ones.
That is a self-perpetuating autocracy. Add in the billionaires’ industrial lobbies, media and academia, and the United States of America, which was once a Republic, is now an Oligarchy.
It was never a Democracy.
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June 29, 2024 10:07pm

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