General Debate 24 June 2024

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Mike

Happy Birthday to John the Baptist!
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June 24, 2024 8:01am
- Jack5
  
  We shouldn’t lose our heads over that anniversary, Mike.
  
  Less gory: today’s the anniversary of Mandela cheering on the Springboks as they beat the poisoned All Blacks in the 1995 World Cup final.
  
  The poisoning: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/details-blacks-1995-world-cup-poisoning-revealed/
  
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  June 24, 2024 11:00am
- NoFax
  
  He and the Virgin Mother are the only two Saints that have their birthdays celebrated. Normally it’s the day the Saint dies or was killed – we will celebrate St. John the Baptist’s death later in the year.
  
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  June 24, 2024 12:44pm
Simon

In the neolib economic unit of consumption and taxation known sometimes as NZ what is your weapon of self-defence? Claw hammer, screwdriver or rattan stick?

If possible, the sword must be presented before the robbery. That is one of the purposes of self-defence weapons is to prevent violence and protect property.
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June 24, 2024 8:03am
- Mr Nobody NZ
  
  One of the best options remains the Maglite 6D cell torch with some good after market accessories such as belt clips to ensure it remains close for unexpected power cuts and vertical slide on grip to make extended use easier.
  
  https://www.thenile.co.nz/sports-outdoors/6d-cell-flashlight/0038739011899
  
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  June 24, 2024 10:56am
  - peterwn
    
    Years ago I knew a fellow student who did after-hours security at Farmers in Hobson Street. They only had five cell torches then and they were not quite as robust as desirable. Management would replace a damaged torch no questions asked.
    
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    June 24, 2024 2:29pm
- Damocles11
  
  I think consumption and taxation both have a very long history. Ancient civilisations levied taxes and their citizens consumed goods and services. ‘Neoliberal’ is the most boring and overused term of this century or any other.
  
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  June 24, 2024 10:58am
- Keith White
  
  Nothing one ought to pre-advertise online that could give the Blue Patched Gang any advantage when deciding how much they can over-charge the situational Paul Kersey and wet-bus-ticket Paul’s home’s invaders and family-threateners.
  
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  June 24, 2024 4:52pm
Bridgenag

Sunday Strip: Anti-Fascist Blues
Its better if you don’t think…

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/sunday-strip-anti-fascist-blues?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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June 24, 2024 8:05am
Matt Long

Waipareira Trust hardly stint themselves, I wonder why they need luxury vans and campers, and why they need the faces Te Pati Maori on them?
https://x.com/AuntyHeihei/status/1804717700218007894
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June 24, 2024 8:09am
- Swifty
  
  How dare you!
  
  “That’s Maori money and no pakeha is going to tell us how to spend it!” JT.
  
  //
  
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  June 24, 2024 8:36am
  - Positan
    
    Let’s do away with the term “pakeha” completely. Why should the ethnicity of those who are not Maori be declared only in terms of a Maori comparative.
    My own basic is “Maori” and “New Zealander.” The majority of Maori are Maori New Zealanders – the rest who want their existence separate are just “Maori.” As for myself, I am solely a “New Zealander.”
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:07am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      No “Maori.” Just New Zealanders.
      
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      June 24, 2024 9:34am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Yes, outlaw all race descriptors in officialdom.
        If that doesn’t happen we will continue our spiral down the toilet.
        
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        June 24, 2024 9:38am
      - waikatosinger
        
        Thanks for telling everyone what words they are allowed to use. I am sure everyone will take heed and amend their language appropriately.
        
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        June 24, 2024 10:04am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Thankyou teacher singer.
        
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        June 24, 2024 3:05pm
    - PurplePen
      
      Its like that maori MP that said their children are Maori, not NZers. I’d point out we’re all NZers whether you like it all not as the country is called NZ. And then within NZ some of us are perhaps Polish, Greek, Cantonese, Maori, Malay, etc. She hadn’t seemed to grasp there’s the country you come from and then there’s the ethnicity that you are are two different things.
      
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      June 24, 2024 10:12am
    - Handyman
      
      To test reaction, always swap the subject noun.
      Pakeha and non Pakeha?
      
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      June 24, 2024 10:24am
    - Paulus
      
      Realistically the Maori is a Pacific Islander who originated in Taiwan, as their DNA suggests.
      
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      June 24, 2024 10:57am
      - KiwiSapper
        
        “Actually” were maori named as they demand they should be, then in the King’s English they should be described as ” Aborigine”.’ Wiki explains.
        .
        “ABORIGINAL | English meaning – Cambridge Dictionary https://dictionary.cambridge.org › dictionary › english › aboriginal a member of a race of people who were the first people to live in a country, before any colonists arrived:
        .
        BUT as maori were NOT “the first people to live in a country, before any colonists arrived,” as they them selves were colonists, then they are neither the first people to live in a New Zealand nor aborigine.
        So, “colonists” and bloody violent ones at that seems more appropriate.,
        
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        June 24, 2024 12:30pm
      - Mike
        
        BUT as maori were NOT “the first people to live in a country, before any colonists arrived,” as they them selves were colonists, then they are neither the first people to live in a New Zealand nor aborigine.
        That’s completely untrue. It’s a bit sad, but unsurprising, to read that myth repeated time after time on Kiwiblog.
        
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        June 24, 2024 1:36pm
      - PurplePen
        
        Maori as a label for Maori was established mid 19th century. The word itself meant ordinary people in that the non pakeha inhabitants were the ordinary people of the land.
        
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        June 24, 2024 1:58pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Mike I change my mind as the facts change. If there was hard evidence that Maori were NOT the first humans here you can be damn sure the loony left and the treaty grievance/re-writing industry would be all hands to the pump in having the evidence and anyone promoting the evidence destroyed. Things have got that mental.
        
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        June 24, 2024 8:35pm
- peterwn
  
  Alaska airline and Hawaii airline aeroplanes have faces on them.
  
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  June 24, 2024 8:44am
  - imalwaysright
    
    “Alaska airline and Hawaii airline aeroplanes have faces on them…”
    
    Did they hit somebody?
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:39am
- peterwn
  
  If Maori trusts are operating outside their scope they should be paying 39% tax like Pakeha trusts have to pay.
  
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  June 24, 2024 8:48am
  - pdm
    
    `……….they should be paying 39% tax………..
    
    pwn – I think you mean – they should all be paying 389% tax!!!!! – whether they are within or outside their scope.
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:15am
    - peterwn
      
      I agree, but that would be a step too far at this stage. If a Pakeha extended family set up a charitable trust to pay for their childrens’ education and advancement, IRD would be down on it like a tonne of bricks.
      
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      June 24, 2024 11:50am
- Ghost
  
  The Maori party could be paying to advertise on them…..
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:44am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    JT probably insists on payment.
    
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    June 24, 2024 10:18am
- Jethrod
  
  Only 4 of them Mercedes-Benz!
  
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  June 24, 2024 11:29am
  - peterwn
    
    Mercedes Benz commercial vehicles are ‘mainstream’ unlike their luxury cars. A batch of Mercedes buses was purchased for Auckland’s public transport years ago which raised a few eyebrows. But they were not assigned exclusively to the Remuera or Epsom routes.
    
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    June 24, 2024 1:28pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      They have buses in Remmers? Who knew?
      Porch make buses you know……
      
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      June 24, 2024 3:15pm
      - peterwn
        
        Yes. Remmers has a pretty damn good bus service. I have used it a number of times to visit a brother-in-law (now sadly deceased).
        
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        June 24, 2024 6:52pm
  - Ghost
    
    It’s common, our public transport uses Mercedes-Benz as well
    
    https://timaru.metroinfo.co.nz/assets/Timaru/Images/my-way-van-on-street2.png
    
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    June 24, 2024 3:45pm
Maggie Pie

You literally COULD NOT make this stuff up 😀 😀 😀

‘PRIDE goeth before destruction’

– Proverbs 16:18

https://x.com/EvilArthurFleck/status/1804780146932466111
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June 24, 2024 8:14am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Maggie, yesterday you had a brilliant, if oblique, reference to Bevan Chuang; today you quote the scriptures in a way that no Canon could ever do.
  You are Kiwiblog’s Treasure.
  And don’t let any mother say “Treasures? They are soiled nappies.”
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:31am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That reference was great. I never knew what she saw in that loser!
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:37am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  When I was at sea a large number of the catering dept were Gay. Terrific bunch with great SOH and didn’t take themselves seriously. This load of Gays wouldn’t last 5 mins with the Gays I sailed with.
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:35am
- Matt Long
  
  Was that really on the Interislander Website or social media or did someone make it up? Just seems too stupid to be real.
  
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  June 24, 2024 10:38am
Ghost

Happy sentencing day

Former Green Party standout turned New Zealand’s highest-profile shoplifter Golriz Ghahraman has already seen her political career disintegrate after admitting earlier this year to stealing nearly $9000 worth of retail items from high-end stores in Auckland and Wellington.

When the former MP returns to Auckland District Court this afternoon for sentencing, she’ll learn if her pre-politics career as a criminal defence lawyer is also a casualty of her retail crime spree.

Article
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June 24, 2024 8:25am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Wonder if the Chief District Court Judge ever got to the bottom of the alleged conflict-of-interest with the sentencing dudge?
  
  And we never did find out what the meeting between Golly and Jerry at that outdoor coffee shop was all about. Just saying.
  
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  June 24, 2024 8:43am
  - imalwaysright
    
    In a normal world the prosecution would object.
    
    That they haven’t shows how pervasive corruption is in NZ
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:12am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      I want to know how the security video showing chloe swarbrick covering for golriz shop lifting has been covered up? Those images should be on the front of every paper. Good on youtuber Whangarei Tim for posting the video.
      
      I saw Peters mention Chloe’s presence in the security video to which chloe shouted “that is a conspiracy theory”
      
      How many conspiracy theories came true during the Labour Greens time in government.
      
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      June 24, 2024 9:46am
      - Ghost
        
        The video was on all msm, it wasn’t covered up. It’s not her. It’s time to move on from this conspiracy theory.
        
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        June 24, 2024 11:37am
      - Mr Nobody NZ
        
        I would like to know who the associate was who return some of the stolen items was?
        
        Are they or were they a member of the Green Party or their staff?
        
        Had they returned stolen items on any other occassions?
        
        Did they advise anyone within the Green Party of the situation?
        
        What assistance did they obtain for Gloriz criminal behaviour?
        
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        June 24, 2024 11:55am
      - greybeard
        
        “An associate of Ghahraman’s returned some of the items later that afternoon, but the politician wasn’t with her.”
        Will we ever learn the name of this female associate ?
        
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        June 24, 2024 12:02pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        So Golriz has an accomplice who looks exactly like Swarbrick, but isn’t Swarbrick?
        
        Chole’s doppelganger sure fooled Winston.
        
        and I’ll never move on from exposing the fraudsters and charlatans who poisoned most of NZ for a few bucks. I’m sure the families of the dead are struggling to move on as well.
        
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        June 24, 2024 12:16pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        @ghost. Correct: The video was on the msm.
        
        But media have confirmed that on “Dec 21, Gharaman went to Scotties Boutique with two associates. She had a large tote bag over her right shoulder.”
        
        Those associates have never been named.
        
        It is still unconfirmed who is in the video. And we only see one person. So is that her associate. It sure does look like a famous MP. Where is the other associate. Playing lookout at the front? Or did they not know?
        
        So yes it is still open for speculation. It would be great to get further footage from the stores camera so we could confirm if it is her or not and who the other associate was or at least a description of the other associate. And the police still have not confirmed who negotiated with them and returned the goods to the store.
        
        Obviously the police and shopkeepers know who the associates were.
        
        Media reported “But about an hour later, an associate of Ghahraman’s went back to the boutique and returned the items of clothing she had taken, except the tank top.”
        
        She also had a male associate on her first shoplifting gig.
        
        No video footage, retailer interviews, or court reports were made public showing who that is.
        
        Media also reported “In October, Ghahraman entered Cre8iveworx in Wellington with a male associate.”
        
        So yes. The mystery continues. And the Conspiracy theorists have a pretty good track record so far.
        
        #TeamConspiracy.
        
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        June 24, 2024 1:36pm
      - Ghost
        
        The woman in the video does not have a tattoo on her arm, Chloe does.
        
        https://x.com/GregAFC/status/1747180147269394684?
        
        It doesn’t event look like her, not even if you squint and are half drunk.
        
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        June 24, 2024 1:41pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        I can understand why Winston thinks its chloe…… and Winston looks at chloe enough to know what she looks like.
        
        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pbiGRjFld8w
        
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        June 24, 2024 2:14pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Right arm tattoo below inner elbow is missing. Not Chloe. She does.
        
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        June 24, 2024 3:29pm
    - Mr Nobody NZ
      
      In fairness to the Prosecution the conflict wasn’t declared by the Judge and only became widely known after the offenders court appearance.
      
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      June 24, 2024 10:59am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I thought they did
      
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      June 24, 2024 12:51pm
      - Mr Nobody NZ
        
        I’ve not seen any reports or comments from the Police or Prosecution saying that was the case.
        
        Happy to be proven wrong as personally I would agree then the whole suggestion of a conflict would be wrong. However to the best of my knowledge not even the usual left wing commentary boxes haven made that suggestion and at best simply declare “there was no conflict”.
        
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        June 24, 2024 2:16pm
  - fernglas
    
    There was no conflict of interest with the sentencing Judge. There was an earlier administrative remand by a Judge who had previously been co-counsel with her, but no decisions were made, so no conflict arose. The sentencing Judge will certainly be someone who doesn’t know her.
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:33am
    - Mr Nobody NZ
      
      Whether or not there was a conflict of interest there was definitely the potential for a conflict to be perceived to exist.
      
      As such the Judge in mynopinion exercised very poor judgement (especially what is definitely a very political and very watched case) not to have informed both the defence and prosecution to enable either party to object if they felt it was appropriate.
      
      By failing to disclose her prior relationship with the offender the judge has taken what I personally would have consider a non issue which neither party would have raised concerns about to a fairly significant one which has called into not only the judge’s profesional sense of judgment and a very real perception that a conflict did exist and she tried to conceal it.
      
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      June 24, 2024 11:50am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Jerry is speaker, he possibly has too check on someone like this, possibly has to make sure mental health and the like
    
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    June 24, 2024 11:16am
- Mod88
  
  Appearing before one of her besties…if I remember correctly wasn’t there some Inquiry promised or more like The Fix is in.??
  
  “is expected to seek a discharge without conviction as she appears before Judge Maria Pecotic”
  
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  June 24, 2024 8:57am
  - KiwiSapper
    
    and then back to her old job at the trough once more………..
    
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    June 24, 2024 12:34pm
- cmm
  
  “she’ll learn if her pre-politics career as a criminal defence lawyer is also a casualty of her retail crime spree.”
  
  I doubt it.
  
  I’ll bet that she has already been informed what sentence she will be getting – whether that is legal or not.
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:06am
  - rouppe
    
    Agree. My pick is we will hear “consequences of a conviction outweigh the severity of the crime”
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:28am
    - fernglas
      
      Even if she is discharged without conviction, it doesn’t mean she will be considered a fit and proper person to hold a practising certificate. That is for the Law Society to decide.
      
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      June 24, 2024 9:43am
    - Mr Nobody NZ
      
      As a former MP, Lawyer and Justice Spokesperson for a major political party the need for justice to be seen will be critical. In addition this wasn’t a single criminal act but four carried out over a period of months.
      
      Because of the duration of the criminal offending and the fact that others intervened on her behalf by returning items her defence of medical reasons/stress are diluted and she should face the full weight of her offending which at a minimum requires a conviction to be entered he name.
      
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      June 24, 2024 11:08am
  - fernglas
    
    There will have been discussion between prosecution and defence about potential sentences. They may or may not agree. Even if they agree, the sentencing judge will exercise their discretion in deciding whether to accept the outcome, or impose some different sentence. So you would lose your bet.
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:36am
    - cmm
      
      I’ll bet that she will know the result before it is spoken in court.
      
      I doubt she is subject to the same rules as the rest of us.
      
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      June 24, 2024 3:26pm
    - peterwn
      
      Many years ago Stipendary Magistrates (now called District court Judges) would discharge without conviction miscreant law students so it would not affect their chances of being called to the bar. Then one day one Magistrate said ‘enough is enough’ and convicted and sentenced the student. The other Magistrates followed suit.
      More recently a law student abused his law school photocopier and the Dean blackballed his application to be called to the bar. He had to wait several years then apply to the High Court to be called to the bar. Another mature law student had to go all the way to the Supreme Court to be called to the bar because of a drink-drive.
      Regardless of the sentencing outcome, she can be denied a practicing certificate if she is deemed not to be of good character to practice law. She can then suffer the cost and inconvenience of fighting the decision in the High Court.
      
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      June 24, 2024 7:04pm
  - PurplePen
    
    Presume then she’ll be excited and energised and off on another spree to celebrate.
    
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    June 24, 2024 10:15am
    - Mr Nobody NZ
      
      I wonder how many shopkeepers will be checking today’s outfit to see if it matches any missing stock?
      
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      June 24, 2024 11:57am
  - Paulus
    
    Whatever she will appeal right through !
    
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    June 24, 2024 10:59am
  - peterwn
    
    Courts will give a sentencing indication to help an accused to decide whether to plead guilty. This works pretty well.
    
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    June 24, 2024 2:34pm
    - fernglas
      
      Didn’t happen in this case
      
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      June 24, 2024 4:09pm
- Hugh Jarse
  
  The bus tickets have been soaking for several months now.
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:13am
  - Media hater
    
    A wet bus ticket reference never fails to make me chuckle.
    
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    June 24, 2024 11:52am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Presumably we’ll be demanding that somebody from the Government should also be charged with something and given a similar sentence?
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:33am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Well if she can’t earn a living as a barrister she could work in a clothing shop looking out for thieves.
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:46am
- Bobba Fret
  
  I think the fix is already in, and Gloriz has already been told what her sentence will be.
  
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  June 24, 2024 10:59am
Surely Knott

Another serious violent assault in Auckland CBD.

Why wasn’t the offender who assaulted the elderly lady on Federal Street named? He was arrested. Male 43 years old. Why the name suppression?

What was the description of the dyspraxic woman who was assaulted. The police are asking for witnesses. But what is the description. Any arrests?

Are they copy cat crimes like the ones happening in NYC where white women are being just punched in the head or pushed down stairs.

https://www.today.com/news/news/women-punched-face-new-york-tiktok-trend-explained-rcna145191
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June 24, 2024 8:30am
kowtow

If anyone had any doubts about the Whoreald’s deranged delusionism then today’s cartoon offering should disabuse them.

It’s Luxon as a king with “the reverse midas touch”.

He should frame ,that as a reminder of how there’s no point funding the bastards as they’re pushers of disinformation , lies and very nasty propaganda.
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June 24, 2024 8:34am
- Damocles11
  
  Unfortunately there are people still willing to pay them through subscriptions and advertising, allowing Wilson, Emmerson, Braunias and the woke Editors a comfy meal ticket & a platform to continue disseminating socialist propaganda.
  
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  June 24, 2024 11:02am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  The government funds the Horrid?
  
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  June 24, 2024 11:18am
Maggy Wassilieff

Looks like the Charity Commission needs to keep a closer eye on activist charities:

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/branded-van-raises-new-questions-amid-manurewa-marae-claims/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
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June 24, 2024 8:35am
- Ipanema69
  
  The cynic in me says that they will not touch it. It involves a special people entity so is untouchable.
  
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  June 24, 2024 8:40am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    If cynicism is very widely spread is it no longer cynicism?
    
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    June 24, 2024 10:00am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If the Charity Commission does nothing it just makes JT stronger and more aggressive in his actions.
    He will keep pushing.
    
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    June 24, 2024 10:35am
- Swifty
  
  Unbelievable.
  
  Tamihere et al have, since before 2020, been strictly told and told that it is unlawful for charities to fund a political candidate or party and still they do it – ever since Waipareira was caught doing the same thing.
  
  Using public money, in this case that of a charity, for personal or political gain is the very definition of a corrupt practice.
  
  Oh well, lots more of this coming our way under “by Maori for Maori” and de-colonisation. That’s the whole reason for it – a money and power grab by Maori elites and their families and allies and for their sole benefit.
  
  Joe and Jane Hakopa, down on the factory floor, not so much.
  
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  June 24, 2024 8:49am
  - Mike
    
    Agreed, we don’t need any Trump-like fale charities here.
    NZ probably has too mamy charities competing for niche causes, each with generous overheads to fund.
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:27am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      You must be thinking about Joe and Hunter’s “shell companies.”
      
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      June 24, 2024 10:40am
      - Mike
        
        Oh, have they been forced to wind up a fake charity, or was that just the Trump Foundation?
        
        3 11
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        June 24, 2024 10:51am
  - PurplePen
    
    Never has and nowhere does NZ law allow Maori practice of any sort exemption from not being bound by NZ law. As far back as the ToW and also section 71 in the 1852 Constitution of NZ act it specifically said you can operate amongst yourselves on your own land but you’re still not allowed to break NZ law.
    
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    June 24, 2024 10:19am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Money and power grab? Sound like there is a Coup happening. No sarc.
    
    9 3
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    June 24, 2024 10:39am
- cmm
  
  “needs to” and “are going to” are unfortunately two very different things.
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:07am
- Muttonbird
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  That’s colonialism writ large.
  
  The crown push Māori down to underprivileged position, then dictate what Māori can do with meagre resources.
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:25am
  - Swifty
    
    You completely miss the point.
    
    It’s not ‘Maori money’. They are not ‘Maori resources’.
    
    It belongs to a charity, and to be accorded that status and retain it, a charity must follow certain rules to ensure any monies are put towards the charitable purposes the charity exists to deliver or perform – otherwise the whole system breaks down.
    
    You can’t have charity officers just deciding off their own bat to spend charity money on other, different, purposes and especially not for personal or political gain.
    
    It’s not hard Mutton.
    
    Or, would you be fine with me setting up a charity to provide assistance to elderly kuia, raise millions, and then donate it all to ACT?
    
    That’d be fine with you would it?
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:40am
  - imalwaysright
    
    We like to think that the cream rises to the top.
    In Maoridom it seems to be the scum.
    They keep the money, and keep their own people barefoot and ignorant so that next year they can get more money.
    They are nothing less than modern day slave owners.
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:52am
    - PurplePen
      
      When I’m cooking pork I’ll boil it and there’s scum that rises to the top. Which of course you scoop out otherwise the dish won’t be so tasty.
      
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      June 24, 2024 2:01pm
  - Yabster
    
    lol Mutt more generalisation’s- have you seen your mate JT’s house…
    
    3 0
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    June 24, 2024 10:00am
  - Damocles11
    
    Nothing meagre about the financial resources at Maoridom’s disposal.
    
    3 0
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    June 24, 2024 11:07am
- alwyn.a
  
  That isn’t the only “charity”? they should be looking at. How did the Helen Clark Foundation ever get the status of a charity? As far as I can see the only thing they do is prepare material for Helen to make speeches about how wonderful she was and pay for her first class travel around the world.
  It certainly doesn’t look like any form of charity to me.
  https://helenclark.foundation/about-us/#:~:text=The%20Helen%20Clark%20Foundation%20is,charity%20in%20Aotearoa%20New%20Zealand.
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:57am
- Paulus
  
  I assume the Charities have a separate Division dealing only with the tens of thousands of Maori Charities, and staffed by Maori of course.
  What about the IRD ?
  
  3 1
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  June 24, 2024 11:01am
imalwaysright

The cops need to put armed plain clothes officers on motorbikes around the main cities as first responders.
Works very well in London. Nothing like a good guy with a glock showing up when you need him.
18 3
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June 24, 2024 8:36am
- john1234
  
  Would work much better in uniform.
  
  6 1
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  June 24, 2024 9:12am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Bad guys have eyes, they will go somewhere else. Better to ambush and kill them.
    
    0 0
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    June 24, 2024 12:15pm
- Mike
  
  Yes, why should it only be criminal gangs doing the drive-by shootings?
  
  3 23
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  June 24, 2024 9:28am
- MCōs
  
  In Mangere Bridge random coppers are armed with hot meat pies from the local bakery
  I’ve never seen any trouble down the Main Street
  
  4 2
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  June 24, 2024 9:41am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    They hurl them at offenders with a catapult?
    
    0 0
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    June 24, 2024 8:42pm
- waikatosinger
  
  Armed cops on motorbikes. The Judge Dredd approach to policing.
  
  1 0
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  June 24, 2024 10:06am
  - sirknz
    
    Gaze into the fist of Dredd.
    
    0 0
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    June 24, 2024 3:56pm
    - Keith White
      
      Judge Anderson: “Don’t even think about it.”
      
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      June 24, 2024 5:47pm
Muttonbird

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (TERFs) are going to court over, er, being excluded from the Wellington Pride Festival in 2021.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/trans-exclusionary-lesbian-group-files-human-rights-case-against-wellington-pride-festival/ZTHPRRTNAVCYHKKJIZQJGBAYPY/

Thing I’ve always wondered is why do most TERFs look more like men than transgender women???

Even JK Rowling in a certain light…
4 42
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June 24, 2024 8:40am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  How should women look?
  
  …asking on behalf of the leader of an opposition party
  
  44 3
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  June 24, 2024 8:59am
  - Muttonbird
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    I’ll leave policing how women and men should look to the TERFs.
    
    1 35
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    June 24, 2024 9:12am
    - Swifty
      
      You define a woman based purely on looks?
      
      Really?
      
      12 1
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      June 24, 2024 9:33am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      What is a “Woman?”
      
      16 2
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      June 24, 2024 10:46am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Hang on, you didn’t give me time to formulate an answer . Stamps feet
        
        7 0
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        June 24, 2024 11:20am
      - Ghost
        
        A man with wo before it? Then the question is what is a wo?
        
        6 1
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        June 24, 2024 11:22am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Ghost, what is a “wo?”
        Must be a pronoun.
        
        2 0
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        June 24, 2024 3:50pm
  - PurplePen
    
    The same question can be asked of men. Mind you, put makeup on a man or even a dress or pantyhose and arguments become boisterous.
    
    8 1
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    June 24, 2024 10:23am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Women look great just the way they are.
    
    3 0
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    June 24, 2024 12:20pm
- Swifty
  
  I see the lezzies are now being excluded from the very organisation and movement they themselves set up.
  
  So much for women’s rights – sacrificed to protect the feelings of a few men.
  
  33 1
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  June 24, 2024 9:09am
  - PurplePen
    
    To a certain extent understandable. Historically the boys have set up a new club or event such as a regular drinks get-together or gay film festival. Then the girls get annoyed they’re not included. They’re let in, rather than asked to join and then they take over .. and the event slowly dies.
    
    6 3
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    June 24, 2024 10:26am
  - GJM
    
    Yup, men are better at being women than women..
    
    0 0
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    June 26, 2024 6:55pm
- pdm
  
  Mutton – have you not thought that is because they are men?
  
  17 2
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  June 24, 2024 9:21am
- Libertarians are right
  
  You mean Lesbians who don’t like being sidelined and told they are evil if they don’t sleep with biological Males?
  
  11 3
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  June 24, 2024 9:21am
  - PurplePen
    
    I’ve never understood how the most strident lesbians that are vehemently anti-men go all out to make themselves look like and behave like men.
    
    7 2
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    June 24, 2024 10:27am
- Yabster
  
  TERF- lol- lefty bullshit label, would be right up muttons alley…
  
  And what should a woman look like in your world Mutt? Or more likely your dreams…
  
  18 3
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  June 24, 2024 9:26am
- Taieri
  
  Thing I’ve always wondered is why do most TERFs look more like men than transgender women???
  ————
  
  Apart from being a muttonbird are you also a transgender “woman”?
  
  1 3
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  June 24, 2024 10:02am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    A trans species shearwater?
    
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    June 24, 2024 8:07pm
- mandk
  
  TERF is an offensive term and you shouldn’t be using it.
  
  The women you describe that way are just trying to preserve women’s spaces and opportunities for women.
  
  17 4
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  June 24, 2024 10:47am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Who banged on endlessly about gender being merely a social construct?
  
  Why, it was the feminists!
  
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  June 24, 2024 8:44pm
artemisia

The usual suspects say boot camps won’t work. For reasons. No problem, just get the government instead to tell parents how to love and care for their offspring. Easy as. Just needs money. Lots of money. Mind you, last time I looked love and care are free.

Green Party justice spokesperson Tamatha Paul says these young offenders just need the love and care they never had.

Aaron Hendry from youth development group Kick Back says go to those communities, those whānau and say, ‘what do you need to really care for your kids?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/520372/no-evidence-government-s-boot-camps-young-serious-offender-category-will-work-critics
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June 24, 2024 8:55am
- cmm
  
  I say that NZ bootcamps won’t work – but for the opposite reason.
  
  If they were done right then I think they could have some benefit.
  
  However these “boot camps” are going to be run by OT, not the military. That immediately defeats the whole rationale of a boot camp.
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:10am
  - imalwaysright
    
    More like jandal camps
    
    13 1
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    June 24, 2024 9:16am
  - pdm
    
    cmm – OT running the camps is only until new legislation is passed then the `proper’ running of the camps takes over towards the end of the year.
    
    That is what I understood Karen Chhour to say to Tim Beveridge yesterday. If her plans are allowed to be put in place by National then I think they may well work.
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:28am
    - cmm
      
      “OT running the camps is only until new legislation is passed ”
      
      Waste of time.
      
      Why spend a whole lot of effort for OT to develop new protocols etc for running a bootcamp only to have them replaced again in a few more months time?
      
      That, especially, since the “OT bootcamps” will be watered down and give bootcamps in general a bad name.
      
      It makes sense to rather do it right even if it takes an extra 6 months or a year to do so.
      
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      June 24, 2024 3:39pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Needs to be run by people like Willie Apiata – SAS style.
    That will sort the cheeky little pricks out.
    
    8 3
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    June 24, 2024 10:52am
  - Mike
    
    It’s not a job for our tiny, understaffed defence force, which has actual military work to do.
    
    3 9
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    June 24, 2024 10:55am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      We ain’t got no bullets.
      Look at the Navy, what a joke. So is the Air Force. Army? A little better.
      On the World Stage we are embarrassing.
      
      7 2
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      June 24, 2024 11:01am
    - cmm
      
      If it isn’t the job for the military themn it isn’t a bootcamp.
      
      The whole point of boot camps is that they are run under military law.
      
      You can’t run away – that’s AWOL, subject to the punishments that can be handed out under military rule.
      
      You can’t swear at the officers. That too is subject to military law and gets you into the military punishment system.
      
      OT has no teeth. They cannot punish people for running away or saying “fuck you” to staff.
      
      Therefore non-military bootcamp is doomed to failure.
      
      2 1
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      June 24, 2024 3:44pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    I thought the military was having a large part to do with these camps, 10 already going through
    
    4 1
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    June 24, 2024 11:22am
- waikatosinger
  
  The boot camp aspect isn’t what is important here. The important thing is to achieve a complete change of environment and living circumstances to create the possibility of change. The boot camp isn’t because you want to turn them into soldiers. It is more like what else are you going to do with a bunch of excessively energetic potentially violent bad boys with bad habits, poor self control and an attitude problem out in the back of beyond.
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:58am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Not just boys. There are some really nasty angry bitches our there.
    
    3 0
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    June 24, 2024 3:53pm
- PurplePen
  
  It was an amateur mistake to ever raise the label bootcamps when promoting this policy
  
  8 1
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  June 24, 2024 10:29am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Boot camps are too appease level headed voters, you will never please the luvies
    
    1 1
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    June 24, 2024 12:57pm
- Sacha
  
  – caring is hard work. They won’t want anything to do with it. Save your breath.
  
  4 2
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  June 24, 2024 10:55am
- Paulus
  
  History has shown that Whanau do not care one sod for their mokopuna.
  They just want them to be like them and they are.
  
  9 1
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  June 24, 2024 11:05am
- grumpy
  
  “More money bro”……because, you know….colonialism!
  
  5 1
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  June 24, 2024 11:51am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  “Green Party justice spokesperson Tamatha Paul says these young offenders just need the love and care they never had”
  
  Forget boot camps. Send them off to the Yping Labour and Young Greens camps.
  
  That’ll learn ‘em.
  
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  June 24, 2024 8:10pm
Maggie Pie

People are saying it’s fantastic to see the Fathers actually taking responsibility for the actions of their own thieving little scrotes….

https://www.chrislynchmedia.com/news-items/fathers-issue-apologies-after-sons-caught-stealing-in-viral-video/

Doesn’t mention if they’re Maori or Pakeha… would be interesting to know.
23 2
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June 24, 2024 9:06am
- cmm
  
  Both of those seem like genuine apologies which is good.
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:12am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Good Dads. Now kick their arses until their noses bleed.
  
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  June 24, 2024 11:12am
Ian Boag

And for something completely different …

I can’t find any useful info on how many patients will be helped by the $150m/year of extra funding. Off the top of my head – if the drugs average out at $100k/year that would be about 1500 patients. As far as I know, basically they extend life by a few years rather than cure the condition.

Anyone got any better numbers?
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June 24, 2024 9:09am
peterwn

So Labour keeps banging on about Nicola’s delay regarding ferry options and with the unions want the turkey ship order un-cancelled. Apart from the cost of shore facilities there is a matter of whether the proposed ships are even suitable to sail the Tory Channel or the Picton arm of the Sounds. Kiwirail and Labour have so far not provided any answer to this.
Obviously the key issue Simeon Brown and his people have to resolve is whether any new ferries should be rail enabled. Kiwirail would do anything to get new rail enabled ferries and the previous Labour government fell for it without proper investigation. Behind the scenes Kiwirail is most probably pushing for the rail enabled option and this is probably delaying an impartial decision on options. In other words the investigative work needed some years ago is having to be done now and is taking time. There is a Plan C if so-called Plan B cannot be sorted in a reasonable time – simply purchase or lease non-rail enabled second hand ships like Bluebridge does.
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June 24, 2024 9:17am
- Muttonbird
  
  I thought National were supposed to be good managers of the economy. Not much more important to the economy of the entire South Island than inter-island connection resilience, but some genius cancelled it.
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:46am
  - Paulus
    
    [Mod – I’m sure you know why it’s deleted]- look at why the cost exploded.
    
    8 1
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    June 24, 2024 11:09am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    That’s why they cancelled ships that did not have the right infrastructure, and yes the new infrastructure is not adequate, and the tugs are too small, treasury has told them to buy smaller ships as Labour weee told but ignored
    
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    June 24, 2024 11:24am
  - peterwn
    
    That is precisely why Nicola had the project including the turkey ship order cancelled. The proposed ships were just not fit for the intended purpose. Also they would probably never have been allowed to use the Tory Channel adding 30 minutes to each journey, and that extra 30 minutes would most probably have had to be on diesel, not battery.
    Being good managers of the economy is adopting the most effective and economic way of inter-island transport, and the turkey ships were not even in contention for this.
    
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    June 24, 2024 12:00pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    lol Mutton, are you referring to the ferries that were ordered by Labour that didn’t fit in the terminals? The same ferries that Helen Clark was referring to?
    
    1 2
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    June 24, 2024 6:13pm
    - peterwn
      
      But Helen is the fount of all knowledge and if she says the project is OK, it must be OK. Never mind that she is away with the fairies.
      
      1 1
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      June 24, 2024 7:08pm
- MCōs
  
  There’s two problems as I understand and those are boats that need replacing and terminals that need upgrading and it was the latter causing the cost blowout leading to the current administration cancelling the previous grandiose solution.
  That still leaves something needing to be done and I’m picking it’ll ultimately be smaller, but just as costly as that which has been cancelled and delivered years later or some sort of bandaid solution
  
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  June 24, 2024 9:57am
  - Muttonbird
    
    Was it grandiose, or was it responsible, robust and enterprising?
    
    Without rail capability I wonder what the extra cost of container handling either side of Cook Straight adds up to over the lifetime of a ship.
    
    1 11
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    June 24, 2024 10:08am
    - greybeard
      
      Nobody is saying “no rail capability”.
      What they are saying, as you well know, is that the replacement ferries should be of a size to use the current shore facilities, and to be able to maneuver in Picton Harbour, and be relatively new.
      Stop the misinformation for God’s sake, it is tiresome.
      
      8 2
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      June 24, 2024 12:10pm
      - Muttonbird
        
        You guys bark on about robust annual economic growth of 2-3%. Over the 25 year lifetime of the ships and infrastructure that were ordered that’s between 60%-%100 the economic activity yet you want the same sized ships and the same sized port-side facilities.
        
        You might allow for some increased efficiencies over that time but National are locking the country into an economic ceiling because of incompetence and ideology.
        
        They seem determined to make future generations pay which is total Boomer thought, tbh, so very on point.
        
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        June 24, 2024 12:52pm
      - Swifty
        
        “On point.”
        
        How hip.
        
        Snigger.
        
        3 1
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        June 24, 2024 1:24pm
      - peterwn
        
        ‘Rail capability’ versus ‘no rail capability’ is the most fundamental issue to be addressed. Reason – a ‘rail capable’ ferry is a bespoke item and hence is vastly more expensive item than a similar capacity ordinary ferry. If Kiwirail had ordered two rail capable ferries that could use the existing terminals (and Labour would have approved that), there would have been no problem today. Kiwirail was greedy and got away with it at the time because of spineless Labour Ministers who could not be bothered reading and reflecting on Treasury reports. Now it has come back to bite Kiwirail right in the bum.
        
        4 1
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        June 24, 2024 2:48pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      It was irresponsible to order ships that would not be able to be handled even with the new infrastructure. And over the weekend we find the tugs were too small, these ferries do not need to be shiny ass, treasury has told Labour smaller would be better, and mortal does not have to have the job of carting across the straight, especially when competition can do it without problems
      
      3 1
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      June 24, 2024 1:03pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Tugs too small? So with larger ferries NZ needs larger Tugboats?
        
        1 1
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        June 24, 2024 4:03pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Smaller will not be as expensive. Treasury told this government go smaller, and Lsbour ignored treasury
    
    8 1
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    June 24, 2024 11:26am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Smaller will not be as expensive
      
      Or have the same carrying capacity. Generally as you go to larger units the per tonne cost of shifting stuff goes down. That’s sort of why 747’s are bi3ger than 737’s.
      
      Noone is suggesting that we could do it even better with six tiny ships ….
      
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      June 24, 2024 2:07pm
  - peterwn
    
    Quite apart from cost blowouts, the cancelled scheme was unworkable.
    
    1 1
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    June 24, 2024 1:32pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Some might find it informative to look back to a post on Kiwiblog dated 12/03/24: “The Interislander Incompetence”.
  A couple of take-outs:
  “KiwiRail had not been given a confirmation as to whether the ferries would or would not be permitted to operate in Tory Channel.”
  “The mega ferries would have been nearly 40 metres longer and at least five metres wider than the ships in the existing Interislander fleet.”
  Anyone who has been to PIcton and seen the size of the harbour would know that this is not a large space for the turning of ferries to allow them to dock.
  But of course, for the ignorant msm and the unions, practical considerations do not matter.
  Especially if there is any opportunity to criticise the coalition government and the Prime Minister.
  
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  June 24, 2024 10:19am
  - PurplePen
    
    How is it then that the yuge cruise ships get in and out and turn around.
    
    4 5
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    June 24, 2024 10:32am
    - Paulus
      
      Cruise liners do not go into the Picton Ferry wharf but in the bay round the corner, and bussed into Picton.
      
      13 1
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      June 24, 2024 11:12am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Different Unions.
      
      3 2
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      June 24, 2024 11:22am
  - peterwn
    
    So presumably Kiwirail assumed the Harbourmaster could be told to jump into the lake regarding the Harbourmaster’s serious concerns about the turkey ferries using Tory Channel. The Green Party would be the first to scream its head off if the Goverment at Kiwirail’s insistence over-rode the expertise of the Harbourmaster and his employer the Marlborough unitary council.
    
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    June 24, 2024 1:37pm
- Ian Boag
  
  If you do an engineering degree you generally include something called “failure theory”. If you draw a graph of “number of failures” against “time in service” it often starts off quite high (referred to by some as “infant mortality”) falls to a lower level where it stays for a long time then starts to rise as things wear out.
  
  This steering failure – coming so soon after a major upgrade – looks to me like infant mortality – sometimes called “teething troubles”. IMHO it is not any sort of indication that the ferry is stuffed.
  
  These things happen …
  
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  June 24, 2024 10:20am
  - PurplePen
    
    Suspect you’re right. This sort of teething problem tho, Boeing excepted, would never be allowed if it was an aircraft. Suggests NZ Rail is careless with their engineering.
    
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    June 24, 2024 10:35am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Careless, like guys working on pylons.
      
      7 2
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      June 24, 2024 11:27am
    - Taieri
      
      This sort of teething problem tho, Boeing excepted, would never be allowed if it was an aircraft
      ———-
      
      There’s a slight difference between planes and ships. While planes can be identical, no two ships are ever exactly the same. I have sailed on 4 sister ships of the same class, built to the same design, in the same yard, by the same people and while the general concept was the same, there’s plenty of differences between them. Some of them quite major.
      
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      June 24, 2024 5:23pm
  - Handyman
    
    Als0 known as the “bathtub curve” in relation to electrics/electronics.
    
    8 0
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    June 24, 2024 10:39am
    - peterwn
      
      The steering gear had just been replaced so presumably the failure was on the descending left hand line of the bathtub curve.
      
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      June 24, 2024 1:42pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        A not unreasonable supposition …
        
        1 0
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        June 24, 2024 2:01pm
  - Skippytony
    
    Mind you that boat looked pretty scruffy on the news – have they been following their preventative maintenance schedule or did they decide to stop as there was a new toy on the way. many many people have fallen for this trap before……
    
    6 1
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    June 24, 2024 11:04am
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Has there ever been an example of Kiwirail not spending on maintenance, running assets into the ground until they can no longer continue then selling the whole shooting box back to the taxpayers? Sounds familiar…
      
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      June 24, 2024 8:25pm
- mandk
  
  The obvious solution is to revive the Wellington to Blenheim proposal.
  
  This would save at least 1.5 hours to virtually anywhere in the South Island, and the size of new ferries would not be an issue. It would also avoid the cost of an upgrade to Picton harbour facilities.
  
  The cost could be recovered by charging users the value of time and vehicle operating costs they would save.
  
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  June 24, 2024 10:42am
  - Diogenes
    
    The “Wellington to Blenheim” ferry proposal actually had the southern terminal sited at Cape Campbell, well south of Blenheim. From the years I lived in Blenheim, I know that CC is a very open, non-sheltered location, which is subject to high winds from all quarters. I could never understand the rationale of choosing a site that would likely be closed by the weather a good many days. Even Picton, which has good shelter from the Sounds, can be closed by weather. How much more an exposed site?
    
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    June 24, 2024 12:18pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Are you talking about Clifford Bay???
    
    That has been looked at several times and the cost is prohibitive.
    
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    June 24, 2024 12:20pm
    - nova
      
      Back in 2013 it was estimated at $525 million. Seems like a bargain in comparison.
      
      https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/clifford-bay-ferry-terminal-project-won%E2%80%99t-proceed
      
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      June 24, 2024 1:36pm
- waikatosinger
  
  Rail enabled ferries are a legacy of the transport system before containerisation. It made sense back then to load an entire rail car on a ship because otherwise you’d have to unload it at a port, load the stuff on a ship, unload at the other end and then load it back on another rail car. That is a lot of loading and unloading and it was worth dealing with the difficulties of putting rail cars onto a ship to try to avoid it.
  
  But these days with containers, loading and unloading from train to ship and back again is much easier and the case for rail enabled ships is consequently much weaker.
  
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  June 24, 2024 10:46am
- Paulus
  
  Remember it is the Rail and Maritime Unions who want rail ferries, and the large unionised crews,
  thereby controlling the Straight.
  Get Stena in to take over and it will work.
  
  7 1
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  June 24, 2024 11:08am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Anyone buy Kiwirail.
    
    2 2
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    June 24, 2024 11:36am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      but* Kiwirail.
      4 typos today.
      
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      June 24, 2024 4:07pm
- Bevan
  
  According to Stuff, Kiwirail may need to exit the Cook Straight ferry busy cause its not commercially viable…
  
  For more than a year, official advice has stated that KiwiRail – if it didn’t get the more than $2billion it wanted to build larger ports – would no longer see the Interislander as a commercially viable business.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350320302/increased-urgency-fund-interislander-issues-set-become-more-common
  
  And here’s me thinking the sign of not being commercially viable is needing billions of tax payers dollars….
  
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  June 24, 2024 11:15am
  - Swifty
    
    Hahahahaha!
    
    Indeed.
    
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    June 24, 2024 11:59am
Libertarians are right

So, as predicted, the Missouri AG is suing New York over the Trump case.
It turns out that non-Democrat states believe it is wrong for New York to use lawfare to remove a political candidate from the campaign trail.

Because it’s a State vs State action it’ll go straight to the Supreme Court.

A key part of the case will be proving it’s politically motivated.

The fact that number 3 at the DOJ, Matthew Colangelo stepped down from that role to help prosecute Trump in a State case is a pretty big red flag.
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June 24, 2024 9:29am
imalwaysright

I see the ministerial advisory group dealing with the new ferries is chaired by a man who runs Nelson Airport.

Wouldn’t it be better for the chair to be a sea captain?

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
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June 24, 2024 9:33am
- waikatosinger
  
  Someone who runs a seaport would be even better. However a good chair who is neutral to the situation and knows how to run productive meetings should work fine. The chair just has to run productive meetings. They don’t have to be an expert themselves.
  
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  June 24, 2024 11:58am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  If the vessels are not “rail enabled” how is it possible to shunt cargo on board as written in that posting???
  
  Containers have been around since the 1950’s, all cargo sent bay rail should be in containers so it can be easily loaded on the vessels.
  
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  June 24, 2024 12:18pm
  - GJM
    
    Deppends on what you are moving – e.g. logs or heavy machinery is on a flat bed wagon.
    
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    June 27, 2024 5:19pm
Pope Punctilious II

Shock news: British folk music is “white-centric”. A group of researchers has received £1.5 million from UK taxpayers to work out how to decolonize British folk music.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/news/folk-music-study-sheffield-race/
I look forward to follow-up studies showing that Nigerian folk-music is too “Afro-centric”, and that Chinese folk music is too “Asian-centric”.
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June 24, 2024 10:16am
- Bridgenag
  
  ROFL
  
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  June 24, 2024 12:41pm
David Garrett

Crikey, repealing that totally ineffective and unnecessary three strikes law was a great idea by Labour!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350320690/armed-police-downtown-auckland

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350320567/watch-jewellery-store-worker-fends-thieves-sword-after-brutal-hammer-attack
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June 24, 2024 10:27am
- OlderChas
  
  And – “no arrests have been made.” Wait till Plod charges the son with possessing and using an offensive weapon? (Oh – and confiscates the sword as well.)
  
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  June 24, 2024 10:49am
  - David Garrett
    
    Older: What you suggest is entirely possible. Sensible Sentencing was set up by McVicar after Mark Middleton, Karlo Cardno’s stepfather, publicly threatened to nail her killer to a tree and kill him if he was ever released.
    
    Middleton was charged and convicted of threatening to kill. 34 years later Dally remains in jail, but reading the latest Parole Board decision it seems he will be released in the not too distant future.
    
    Dally is now only 61 – he is more than capable of killing again. I see no indication of his attitudes really changing. As a Parole Board member said of his proposed “safety plan”:
    
    ” If I did not know your violent background, nothing in this document tells me that you are a violent offender with four pages of convictions before the murder for which you are now serving a life sentence”
    
    Along with William Bell, Graeme Burton, and a few others, Dally should NEVER be released.
    
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    June 24, 2024 11:18am
    - David Garrett
      
      Just browsing through recent Parole Board decisions, there is a female murderer who killed a man in order to steal his money in 2004. She had 96 – yep, you read that right – ninety-six previous convictions going back to 1979, including for aggravated robbery and other violent offences.
      
      Fortunately, reading between the lines, it doesn’t sound as if she is likely to be released any time soon
      
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      June 24, 2024 11:31am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I remember Mark Middleton say words like “Let him out, let him go, I want him.”
      
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      June 24, 2024 11:49am
      - David Garrett
        
        Steve: He was more explicit than that! He threatened to nail him upside down to a tree, and cut his bits off…
        
        5 0
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        June 24, 2024 12:41pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I can understand Middleton’s grief DG. I don’t think he is unstable, he just made it public.
        
        1 0
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        June 24, 2024 4:17pm
Maggie Pie

A bestie who lives in Ponsonby was telling us the place is being overrun by gheys
and violent drug addicts.

She was saying this is no longer the suburb she grew up in 🙁
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June 24, 2024 10:37am
- David Garrett
  
  who or what are “gheys”??
  
  Surely you and your friend cannot mean GAYS?
  
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  June 24, 2024 10:45am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes her friend (and Maggie) means “geys”, specifically homosexual men. Of course most gay men look no different from other men.
    
    I thought New Zealand was done with homophobia 40 years ago.
    
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    June 24, 2024 11:41am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Although some mhey beg to differ with yu there Bene….
      
      https://x.com/CilComLFC/status/1804931320679661637
      
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      June 24, 2024 11:53am
- MCōs
  
  I’ve noticed you’ve used the word ghey, but can you explain what it means?
  Violent drug addict I understand
  There’s a guy in my in law’s family in Thailand who’s the nicest kid you could meet until he takes some yaba aka meth. Then he screams and yells at people for money to buy some more.
  Next day he’s apologizing to everyone.
  Been in and out of prison . . . . Trouble is it’s really cheap and it’s a slippery slope
  
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  June 24, 2024 10:49am
  - David Garrett
    
    MCos: What’s the penalty for possession of meth for supply in Thailand? Up here in Tonga they were debating amending the law to make the death penalty a discretionary sentence…Voted down 3:1
    
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    June 24, 2024 10:55am
    - MCōs
      
      I suspect it depends on ones standing in society
      This particular guy is at the bottom of the heap and as I said he’s been in prison
      At the top they probably get police protection!
      A lot of influential go to court for murder even are let out on bail, which they can easily afford and they could be the end of the matter
      There’s one famous case about 10-15yrs whereby the grandson of the Red Bull owner killed a policeman with his Ferrari driving at high speed near their compound
      Everyone knew what happened except the police and the guy was able to leave the country before someone of an appropriate rank had time to arrest him
      I think he now comes and goes at his leisure
      So possession is a jailable offence
      
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      June 24, 2024 11:46am
- Maggie Pie
  
  OMG… do I have to do everything?
  
  https://yourdictionary.com/ghey
  
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  June 24, 2024 11:13am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Exactly – a pejorative spelling of gay, i.e to hold in contempt people who are homosexual.
    
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    June 24, 2024 11:44am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, if your friend ‘grew up’ in Ponsonby then she must be of mature age. The exodus of Pacific Island renters to South Auckland began in the 1980s and then it slowly developed into a ‘Yuppie’ do up area. Herne Bay by comparison was always a ‘desirable area’ on the North side of Jervois Rd.
  
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  June 24, 2024 11:17am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Well she’s not a kid! Born in Franklin Rd 1975. Still lives there.
    
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    June 24, 2024 11:56am
    - PurplePen
      
      Oh I know who you mean now.
      
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      June 24, 2024 2:10pm
MCōs

A few things happening this afternoon
All Blacks team announced at 5.30
West Indies play South Africa at cricket
Maybe announcement on money for Pharmac for cancer medication
And a chance for some people to wail and moan that the sentencing of G² is too light because the judge is corrupt blah blah blah
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June 24, 2024 10:38am
- David Garrett
  
  MCos: I can’t wait to hear the makeup of the All Blacks…who are they playing BTW??
  
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  June 24, 2024 10:48am
  - Mike
    
    England twice here, then Fiji (in US) before the comp v Jaapirs, Ockers and Argies.
    
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    June 24, 2024 11:00am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Two things there Cossie…
  What sort of sentence do YOU think G2 should receive?
  And I heard my partner saying earlier “Sam Cane will be back”
  
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  June 24, 2024 10:48am
  - imalwaysright
    
    The doctors have enough on their hands. It would be cheaper to pay Sam”I’ve broke my neck again”Cane to stay home.
    
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    June 24, 2024 11:13am
  - hookerphil
    
    I remember when National were trounced and Muldoon ousted – Thea Muldoon was on TV saying Robert will be back.
    That didn’t work either.
    
    6 1
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    June 24, 2024 11:32am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    She will be either discharged without conviction, or (more likely) receive a sentence of community service. So she will need to spend quite a few weekends picking up litter.
    
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    June 24, 2024 11:47am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      At least Ben, she’ll be dressed in some decent threads to pick up the litter….
      
      1 1
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      June 24, 2024 6:27pm
  - David Garrett
    
    Was Golly G down to be sentenced today? I see no mention of it on Stuff…( I go there because it’s the least mistake riddled site)
    
    I saw the summary of facts on Stuff this morning…the prices of some of the stuff she stole were literally unbelievable! More than $700 for what was described as a “cardigan”… More than $1,000for a dress….Thank God I am a man!
    
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    June 24, 2024 1:43pm
    - Ghost
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350313115/former-mp-golriz-ghahraman-be-sentenced-shoplifting
      
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      June 24, 2024 1:52pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Ghost: Yes, that article was on Stuff when I came into the office about 7.30am NZ time. It just says she will be sentenced “today”. Interestingly, the article seems now to have disappeared, and has not been replaced with anything regarding the actual sentence.
        
        It is 2.09pm NZ time now…the court is only open for another two hours. Perhaps the poor refugee has had the sentencing adjourned – again?
        
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        June 24, 2024 2:10pm
      - Ghost
        
        Herald is reporting she has arrived at court
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/ex-green-mp-golriz-ghahraman-arrives-at-auckland-district-court-for-sentencing-on-shoplifting-charges/SWSKCZLG4ZF4JJ3ROR6KY35TVM/
        
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        June 24, 2024 2:24pm
    - graham
      
      According to the Herald (I have been unable to trust Stuff since they started heavily prioritising their various agendas and crusades over news), the sentencing hearing is scheduled to begin at 2.15pm.
      
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      June 24, 2024 1:56pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      So when? Thursday – maybe. The sentence will be made public about 3.45 Friday I reckon.
      https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/when-former-mp-golriz-ghahraman-will-find-out-her-sentence/ar-BB1oLmER?
      
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      June 24, 2024 5:17pm
Muttonbird

What was Mike King doing this morning, putting that $6M payment to good use?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rush-hour-shock-man-arrested-after-reckless-protest-over-aucklands-southern-motorway/INRO4Q2IL5HFJIGKG24RMGQ4SE/
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June 24, 2024 10:57am
- Ghost
  
  Mike king hasn’t been given the funding yet, but nice try to shift the blame of the mess of the mental health services that labour fucked up onto the one man who has devoted his life to helping people with mental health issues. Grow up
  
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  June 24, 2024 11:27am
  - Ian Boag
    
    mental health services that labour fucked up
    
    I think it took a bit longer than that. Also there is an awful psychiatrist shortage. It has been happening for a while so I’m not sure how Labour alone can be blamed for that one.
    
    And I suppose it would be unreasonable to ask that if tomorrow you were God and had the ability and resources to fix all this, what precisely would you do?
    
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    June 24, 2024 11:50am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Not July 1 yet
  
  1 1
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  June 24, 2024 1:07pm
rangitoto

Milk is a colonialist racist construct.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13560881/Now-experts-asking-milk-racist-tax-payer-funded-research-project-connections-milk-colonialism.html
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June 24, 2024 11:09am
- Don Beckett
  
  Maybe we should be genetically modifying some breed of cattle to produce brown or black milk.
  
  7 2
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  June 24, 2024 11:51am
  - MCōs
    
    According to some poll I heard about 15% of Americans think chocolate milk comes from brown cows
    https://fb.watch/sUudpk04NR/?
    
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    June 24, 2024 12:35pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Leftie muttonheads
      
      4 1
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      June 24, 2024 1:07pm
  - PurplePen
    
    Its already there on the shelf … chocolate milk. not ever seen black milk. i suppose that might be chocolate milk with the lights out, in the dark.
    
    1 0
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    June 24, 2024 2:13pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Black is not a colour – neither is white.
      
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      June 24, 2024 5:12pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Seems these “experts” are unaware of the fact that cattle were domesticated first in the Indus valley and the Fertile Crescent…and Egyptians/Middle-Eastern folk/Vedic Indians were consuming milk and milk products long before Europeans went acolonizing with their moo-cows.
  
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  June 24, 2024 2:29pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Dunno about milk being a racist, colonialist construct, but Milky?
  
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  June 24, 2024 8:23pm
Muttonbird

Question:

Are conservatives inherently corrupt, or does the movement simply attract corrupt people?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/uk-election-betting-scandal-widens-as-fourth-conservative-party-official-reportedly-investigated/GPHX24K7RBCXDG52VO76VDC7BI/
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June 24, 2024 11:13am
- Matt Long
  
  I suspect since the British Conservatives went woke and carried on the Blair government policies, corruption went through the roof.
  Not up with the Marxist SNP though yet.
  
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  June 24, 2024 11:49am
  - Mike
    
    The Tories and Labour have had so many scandals that Wikipedia needs sub-categories for them.
    Can the SNP match that?
    
    2 2
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    June 24, 2024 12:14pm
- Yabster
  
  Question:
  
  Do trolls get their kicks out of trolling because their life is that pathetic, or does someone’s life have to be pathetic to get a kick out of trolling…
  
  3 1
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  June 24, 2024 11:50am
- Swifty
  
  Lefties constantly refer to their ‘movement’ however we on the right side of the aisle don’t.
  
  We use it to refer to what we do in the bathroom.
  
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  June 24, 2024 12:07pm
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  Are muttonbirds inherently unreliable witnesses?
  
  If you’d been paying attention, and if you’d removed your ideological blinkers, you might have noticed there are precious few actual conservatives left in the so-called “Conservative” Party. Immigration has soared under the faux Tory government, completely subverting the intent of Brexit. Sunak is a globalist neoliberal, as was David Cameron, and Theresa May is positively woke. Who could forget her obsequious speech congratulating British Muslims for celebrating Ramadan.
  
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  June 24, 2024 12:45pm
  - Mike
    
    Excellent use of the no true Scotsman fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman?wprov=sfla1
    
    2 1
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    June 24, 2024 2:55pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Mediocre trolling.
      
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      June 24, 2024 3:29pm
Maggie Pie

‘SUICIDE PREVENTION WEEK’ 🙁

What about this stupid stunt?

Drongo hanging off the Motorway Overbridge this morn….

https://x.com/AndrewNZ20/status/1805013809259843658

Hope they throw the book at him!!
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June 24, 2024 11:42am
- peterwn
  
  Hate to say it, but Singapore has just the thing for people who do that sort of senseless and dangerous behaviour.
  
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  June 24, 2024 12:02pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Herald: “The 57-year-old man suspended himself from a climbing harness over the busy Southern Motorway while throwing white objects.”
  That climbing harness looks like a steel rope off a towtruck to me.
  
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  June 24, 2024 12:10pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I actually know a couple of tow truck drivers… none of them would be THAT silly.
    
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    June 24, 2024 12:37pm
    - Inandout
      
      Of course Maggie, towies are not throwies.
      
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      June 24, 2024 1:14pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Steel wire rope ‘acquired’ from a tow truck I mean
      
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      June 24, 2024 5:37pm
Vinicius

Radical climate change protesters attempt to disrupt today’s PGA Tour golf tournament.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/climate-protesters-force-delay-at-travelers-championship-in-connecticut-deface-18th-green-near-end-of-pga-tour-stop-s-final-round/ar-BB1oKJ4d?ocid=BingNewsSerp

What a bunch of idiots. Well done the cops for arresting them so quickly.
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June 24, 2024 11:44am
Muttonbird

Well done, Barcelona!

The Mediterranean city will stop giving new licences and won’t renew existing ones so that in 2029 no homes will have permission to be rented as tourist accommodation, Mayor Jaume Collboni said at a press conference on Friday. There are now about 10,000 houses registered as rentals for tourists.

Airbnb is a cancer for local communities and this city will ban short term rentals from 2029.

Hopefully New Zealand follows suit.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/350320595/barcelona-plans-ban-all-short-term-rentals-tourists-2029
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June 24, 2024 11:45am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  For once I agree with you!
  
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  June 24, 2024 3:29pm
- Local Miller
  
  A fine way to kill the holiday trade. My wife and I are going away the 6th & 7th July, and we are taking our recently married son and his wife with us, spending one night at an Air BnB up north. If they banned these we probably wouldn’t be going there, spending our money on accommodation and in restaurants for dinner and lunch.
  
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  June 24, 2024 3:52pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Having just spent a bit of time in the old town of Barcelona, the decision is just another by a socialist Mayor. Rents have risen 70% in 10 years and house prices 40% in the same period. So the Mayor cries “inequality”, and bans Airbnb. Of course, none of this has anything to do with socialist policies…..
  
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  June 24, 2024 6:42pm
surfing

Visited Australia recently, and their papers paid a lot of attention to the chinese visit.

The Australian journalists are irritating though — they criticise NZ’s soft stance on China in return for trade benefits. i.e, the implication is NZ sold out our principles for money.

It is true that China doesn’t need NZ dairy, and could drop us as a trade partner without even noticing.

But, the same is not true of Australia — China desperately needs Australian mining output… so of course Australia have far more leeway to criticise China without impacting trade.

This aspect seems to be entirely missed by the Australian media and bugged me somewhat. It’s all very well to have principles when you have a strong negotiating position.
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June 24, 2024 11:53am
BeaB

No wonder the media are in a froth. How can so much have gone so wrong in just seven months?
The Herald cartoon today sums up Luxon’s reverse Midas touch.
After the pots and mountains of gold Arden, Robertson and Hipkins left as their legacy after six years in power!
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June 24, 2024 11:57am
Hugh Jarse

Just getting in early on this one.

Dear NZ Police, do not think for one minute that charging the Auckland jewelley shop owner with any offences related to his use of a sword to protect his Father is acceptable. Use of such weapons by the public is acceptable due to your inability to protect shop owners and the public and the provisions of Section 48 of the Crimes Act 1961.

When you demonstrate your ability to attend these incidents quickly and effectively and the justice system demonstrates its ability to incarcerate the offenders you apprehend, people won’t need to resort to weapons to defend themselves.
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June 24, 2024 12:11pm
- peterwn
  
  Hopefully the Crown Prosecutor will see the folly of bringing a charge that is doomed to failure and decline to prosecute. Also it must be remembered that making a person stand trial is to facilitate the doing of justice and must not be used as a punishment in its own right.
  
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  June 24, 2024 1:49pm
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    Yes agree but police often use charging as a punishment knowing it will cost the defendant lot of money to defend themselves and that mud sticks or to absolve themselves of making a hard decision.
    
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    June 24, 2024 4:40pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Will we ever be free of this nonsense?
Doco number two.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/very-raw-jacinda-ardern-doco-being-made-about-former-pm-s-time-in-power/ar-BB1oKsY1?
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June 24, 2024 12:30pm
- MCōs
  
  You’re not mandated to watch it
  Same as I’m not mandated to Breakfast on TV1
  
  4 2
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  June 24, 2024 12:48pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    But we are free, free to criticise,
    Queen Jacinda, the queen of lies.
    She smiled, and nodded and said be kind,
    While she divided the country and then left us all behind.
    
    Queen Jacinda, had a mirror on the wall,
    Daily she would ask it, who is the most mendacious of all?
    The cries of rage and spite, a tantrum Royal
    Were heard when the mirror pronounced Clark had been unloyal.
    
    So Mcos, we are not mandated to watch Jacinda queen of mandates,
    Idol worshipped by some offshore girl fan dates,
    But we are free to mock the shrew that tore NZ asunder,
    Then ran off when times got tough, with her plunder!
    
    2 0
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    June 24, 2024 8:51pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Are you sure I will not be mandated? We will be if the Tyrant gets her way.
    Anyway the speaker of the house insists on watching Breakfast.
    Queen bee and all that shit.
    
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    June 25, 2024 7:45am
- graham
  
  “We are so proud that our first doc chronicles the life of the extraordinary Jacinda Ardern. Her uniquely empathetic and inclusive leadership style has been and continues to be an inspiration to people everywhere …”
  
  Problem is, her “inclusive” leadership style … wasn’t.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-derek-cheng-why-jacinda-ardern-has-done-a-u-turn-and-wants-two-classes-of-kiwis/KT625N5BGU65C3ASZKXXSIAZDE/
  
  Having previously dismissed the idea, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern conceded on Friday that the new traffic light system effectively created two classes of people – the vaccinated and the unvaccinated.
  …
  Ardern could have decided to allow the same freedoms to all Kiwis under the new system, but she believes that would be too much of a burden on the vaccinated.
  …
  “People who have been vaccinated will want to know that they’re around other vaccinated people,” she told the Herald on Friday.
  
  She is effectively saying that the unvaccinated are a danger to the vaccinated, and this needs to be balanced by making life easier, and safer, for the vaccinated.
  
  I dunno … none of that sounds very “inclusive” to me.
  
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  June 24, 2024 1:29pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Deport.
I don’t see the need for Court cases. If you are not a US Citizen, out!
3 cheeky bastards are trying to sue.

https://rightsideoffers.com/supreme-court-confirms-it-is-legally-possible-to-deport-illegal-aliens/?
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June 24, 2024 12:42pm
- peterwn
  
  Zaoui got away with it in the NZ Supreme Court several years ago. Then the idiot returned to Algeria and became politically active and is now rotting in an Algerian jail. His acolytes are annoyed that the NZ Government does not intervene on his behalf. But the NZ Government cannot intervene since he is still a citizen of Algeria. There is one born each minute.
  
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  June 24, 2024 1:53pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Kids today can’t even write sentences.
Candace Owens. They are re-creating slavery.

https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1801727698122703130?
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June 24, 2024 12:46pm
- MCōs
  
  I used to get a lot of emails from American project managers for steel fabricators
  I can tell you those guys knew there I-beams & bolt grades, but most of them weren’t so flash on sentence construction, syntax or grammar
  
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  June 24, 2024 1:00pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Did you watch? Candace is pointing out that the kids are not being taught at school.
    BTW, I know my I-beams and bolt grades. Got something like 23% in School C English. Prose and praise was shit at school!
    
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    June 25, 2024 7:53am
- Muttonbird
  
  Handing out too many degrees? Not to this person.
  
  Owens pursued an undergraduate degree in journalism at the University of Rhode Island. She dropped out after her junior year because of an issue with her student loan.
  
  Jealous much, Candace? Perhaps you should have stuck at it…
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_Owens
  
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  June 24, 2024 1:12pm
  - Swifty
    
    Forward, forward the fascist state!
    
    Onward, onward, until the state controls everything!
    
    “Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state” Benito Mussolini and Mutton.
    
    5 2
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    June 24, 2024 2:43pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘Candace, with a net worth estimated at $5 million,’
    https://www.the-express.com/entertainment/celebrity-news/132050/Candace-Owens-net-worth-daily-wire-fired
    
    Your anti Lesbian comment and now this
    You really don’t like women huh
    Or is it because she’s Black
    
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    June 24, 2024 2:44pm
    - Muttonbird
      
      Nah, I don’t like right wing people. It’s that simple.
      
      2 9
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      June 24, 2024 2:46pm
      - Swifty
        
        Why is that Mutton – is it because they’re constantly pointing out how and why you’re wrong about so many things?
        
        5 3
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        June 24, 2024 3:48pm
      - Muttonbird
        
        No, they are generally intolerant, reactionary, and greedy. I don’t like those attributes in a person.
        
        1 2
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        June 24, 2024 6:09pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Mutton: “No, they are generally intolerant, reactionary, and greedy”
        
        Re “intolerant”: Who is bashing people, doxxing people, screaming them down, calling in bomb threats when their views don’t align with lefty dogma? It’s violent and intolerant lefty twits!
        
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        June 24, 2024 8:52pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        There is nothing more greedy than a man that desires the profits of others, something for nothing and is happy to steal to furnish himself with luxury whilst claiming he is doing it for the good of the proletariat.
        
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        June 24, 2024 8:55pm
Grey Ghost

The ferry grounding and it cause : some questions that need to be answered
The ships captain normally engages the auto pilot which steers the vessel. It seem the auto pilot was engaged when it went aground.
Why didn’t the captain reverse the engine and disengage the auto pilot to stop the movement instead of letting it run aground ?.
Was it a steering motor failure or a control system failure ?..
Recent repairs to the steering required re cabling to the bridge and faulty cable repairs may be the cause?
Or was it an act of sabotage by a crew that wanted a new boat and had heard that the interislander service might be sold off ?
Interesting that the media are focusing on blaming the current government for not buying new ferries.
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June 24, 2024 1:03pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Blue Screen of Death?
  
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  June 24, 2024 1:35pm
- Taieri
  
  The ships captain normally engages the auto pilot which steers the vessel
  —————
  
  Not in the restricted waters. Hand steering only.
  
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  June 24, 2024 1:41pm
- peterwn
  
  The Captain or Deck Officer concerned slammed the ship into reverse as soon as he realised he had lost steering. Although that quick action did not completely save the day it did mitigate what would have been a real disaster. The ship otherwise would have been nearly impossible to pull off, the hull would have been significantly damaged and there would have been a serious risk of pollution. As it was the ship was pulled off with relative ease, there was minimal damage and no pollution.
  
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  June 24, 2024 2:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Other ferries in the World don’t have constant problems like Kiwirail ones do.
  
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  June 25, 2024 7:58am
Maggie Pie

Well well well, 4 days later, Transpower CEO finally confirms what I reported here within moments of the Pylon tumbling down…..

“Inconceivably, all the nuts securing three corners of the Power Pylon to the base plates, had been removed at the same time resulting in the structure tipping over. It is unprecedented that all these nuts had been removed at once”
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June 24, 2024 1:16pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  Too many people more interested in their phone content than keeping their minds on the job. That’s not to dismiss possble sabotage either.
  
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  June 24, 2024 1:23pm
  - peterwn
    
    Sabotage by employee would be extremely unlikely.
    
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    June 24, 2024 2:05pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      Not a direct employee – contractor being chucked under the bus for stupidity –
      “A power pylon that fell last Thursday, cutting power to most of Northland was due to contractors removing too many nuts from bolts connecting the tower to a base plate, Transpower chief executive Alison Andrew says.
      This occurred during routine maintenance by Omexom on the transmission tower and its baseplate near Glorit, north of Auckland, but which was not to procedure, she said.”
      “Our view is that the specifications in procedures for this type of work were not followed. All the nuts securing the tower to the base plate on three legs have been removed, which caused the tower to lift off the base plate and fall.
      “It is unprecedented and inconceivable that so many nuts were removed at once.”
      
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/520400/transpower-reveals-why-pylon-fell-causing-major-northland-outage
      
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      June 24, 2024 3:26pm
- Ghost
  
  Question is who was the nuts that thought it was a good idea to remove all the nuts and has he been denutted for that f up
  
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  June 24, 2024 1:24pm
- greybeard
  
  Every single person on that crew should be fired immediately: the cost to the country has been enormous.
  There must be consequences, quickly and publicly.
  
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  June 24, 2024 1:38pm
  - Paul Marsden
    
    What I would like to know is how long had the nuts been removed for, before the tower toppled over? There were up to 50knots of easterly winds blowing the night before and into the early morning. Were the nuts removed the day before?
    
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    June 24, 2024 1:43pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Much crime happen during the blackout?
      
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      June 24, 2024 8:55pm
- nova
  
  If you look closely at the pylon in question you can see that the lines change angle by about 5 degrees at that point. A straight line between the pylons either side is around 20 meters to the east of where the pylon is: https://www.google.com/maps/@-36.4745455,174.4464186,100m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
  So it is not too surprising that it fell towards the east, after the nuts that secured three of the four baseplates were removed. It is quite possible that the workers had gotten away with similar practices at other pylons where there was no sideways forces involved.
  
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  June 24, 2024 1:56pm
  - kevn
    
    nova… I would thought that checking the nuts were tight, be a better idea.
    
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    June 24, 2024 2:35pm
- peterwn
  
  Undoing the bolts of one leg is OK as long as proper care is taken, undoing the bolts of two legs is carelessness and undoing the bolts of three legs is criminal negligence (and OSH will most probably lay a H&S charge against Transpower and/or the contractor and the judge will order a hefty five figure fine).
  Any inquiry must not just hang the responsible employee out to dry. It must reach up the contractor’s / Transpower’s food chain and ask why management and supervision were so deficient to allow such a thing to happen.
  To all those who suffered financial loss, do not hesitate to file Disputes Tribunal claims against Transpower. My guess is Transpower will settle all reasonable claims without a fuss. This is what happened when in the early 1980’s a piece of equipment broke loose at Bunnythorpe causing 110kV and 220kV conductors to short circuit together blowing out customer appliances in the lower North Island. The issue was just as stupid as the pylon case – a new piece of equipment was installed and the plans showed that an eye-bolt supporting the equipment had to be replaced with a stronger one, and the workers thought that the existing eye bolt would be OK. In due course it fatigued and failed.
  
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  June 24, 2024 2:24pm
- NoCash
  
  Has Transpower’s service provider hired ex Boeing technicians to do the job?
  
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  June 24, 2024 4:11pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I think all of the nuts on ‘one’ base plate have to be removed. The idea is to clean and paint the plate, or replace it. All of the steel is galvanised.
  
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  June 25, 2024 8:17am
Muttonbird

Mystery solved:

Transpower chief executive Alison Andrew says a power pylon that fell last Thursday was due to contractors removing too many nuts.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/520400/transpower-reveals-why-pylon-fell-causing-major-northland-outage

What hasn’t been answered satisfactorily though is what role did DEI policy have in this.
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June 24, 2024 1:19pm
- All_on_Red
  
  ‘removing too many nuts’?
  
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  June 24, 2024 2:41pm
Jethrod

It could be raised that there was 2 varieties of nuts present at the collapse.
If in doubt ,read the manual!!!
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June 24, 2024 1:22pm
- peterwn
  
  What manual? I bet there was not a written job procedure for carrying out this sort of work which there should have been!
  
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  June 24, 2024 2:55pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The manual is just the manufacturer’s opinion.
  
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  June 25, 2024 8:12am
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION

Wonder when the last time was that ‘Transpower CEO Alison Andrew’ donned all the relevant saftey-gear and scaled a Pylon?

https://facebook.com/nzherald.co.nz/videos/transpower-chief-executive-alison-andrew-speaks-to-media/1150729682826167/

LOL!! 😀 😀 😀
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June 24, 2024 2:04pm
- peterwn
  
  Would you or your ladies at tennis try and scale a pylon? Some people like me just do not have an aptitude for this – I do not and I have had to work with pylons. One guy was accepted as a trainee line mechanic, but had to give it up because he just could not work at heights despite being among helpful supervisors and workmates.
  
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  June 24, 2024 2:10pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    WOOOOSH! 😀
    
    2 3
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    June 24, 2024 2:34pm
  - Ghost
    
    No need to climb it, you just remove the nuts and work on it on the grass…..
    
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    June 24, 2024 2:37pm
- kevn
  
  Maggie… 1.5 mill pa salary says she doesn’t have to do that.
  
  1 2
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  June 24, 2024 2:27pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And what about the token ‘greenstone tiki’ 😎
    
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    June 24, 2024 2:36pm
- mogg
  
  “The bolts were taken out and it fell over”.
  Alison Andrew is paid $1,200000 pa to state the eff- ing obvious. She has instigated an inquiry.
  
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  June 24, 2024 3:27pm
- Scooter
  
  On the Newstalk ZB interview she says all work will be completed by Matariki (actual date not given, I had to Google it) says it all really.
  
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  June 24, 2024 6:08pm
Muttonbird

[deleted] fathers his 12th child. Not much of a dad to any of them, I’ll bet.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/520403/tech-billionaire-elon-musk-quietly-welcomes-12th-child
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June 24, 2024 2:24pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Mutton: “Not much of a dad to any of them, I’ll bet.”
  
  How would you have the faintest clue on that?
  
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  June 24, 2024 8:58pm
BeaB

Can you imagine the daily media hounding if Darleen Tana had been a National or ACT or NZ First MP?
Can you imagine the media derision that Rachel Burt could take so long to do her inquiry?

Why does a private investigation lead to media silence? It has no force of law. Why is the media so mute? We are still paying both the MP and for the inquiry which must be racking up some eye-watering hourly charges.
Our media are a joke.
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June 24, 2024 2:54pm
Ghost

At the start of the hearing, Judge June Jelas allowed Ghahraman to sit in the public gallery as she wouldn’t be receiving a custodial sentence.

Article
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June 24, 2024 2:55pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Wet bus pass inbound.
  
  7 1
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  June 24, 2024 2:58pm
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  What an absolute smack in the face to the untold legions of men and women in NZ, many of whom former members of the NZDF, who have suffered from complex PTSD and have not resorted to committing crimes as a result.
  
  Those service members served their country under considerably less remuneration and perks available than old Golly Golriz was receiving, while supporting families at home, and in some cases being responsible for the very lives of those they were serving alongside.
  
  Not all of them returned. Those that did return walk with ghosts for the rest of their lives.
  
  What sort of a precedent does this make.
  
  At the very least put her in the bloody dock!
  
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  June 24, 2024 3:07pm
- kevn
  
  Ghost… GG just lying her way round the whole thieving capers.
  
  5 2
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  June 24, 2024 3:47pm
- cmm
  
  I must say her watermelon brooch is most fitting:
  
  Green on the outside, red on the inside.
  
  Of course, as expected, she’s the victim here…
  She should really be getting extra compensation for all the pain and suffering caused by the case.
  And her MP position back!
  
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  June 24, 2024 3:55pm
- MCōs
  
  It would be very unusual for a first time shoplifting offender to be given a custodial sentence
  
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  June 24, 2024 3:55pm
- Ghost
  
  Judge June Jelas has just told the court she is going to reserve her decision.
  
  She will deliver her decision at 1pm on Thursday.
  
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  June 24, 2024 4:02pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  Why should she be allowed to sit in the public gallery when you or me would not be?
  
  6 1
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  June 24, 2024 4:19pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    In the same circumstances you probably would
    
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    June 24, 2024 5:29pm
    - peterwn
      
      Trevor Mallard had to stand in the dock and he had not even been found guilty. He should have been allowed to be in the public gallery or at the defence lawyer’s table.
      
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      June 24, 2024 7:19pm
Muttonbird

Interesting. These are the guys responsible for the pylon falling over:

https://www.omexom.co.nz/our-people/our-leaders/

Got to say, they look like people who know what they are doing…but you just can’t tell these days.
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June 24, 2024 3:12pm
- kevn
  
  mutt… Not an overall clad person to be seen in that pic.
  
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  June 24, 2024 3:40pm
  - Muttonbird
    
    Well, there’s a room full of cis white men who should be on top of all things. They were not.
    
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    June 24, 2024 6:06pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  “Health, safety and wellbeing is their number one priority” according to their website.
  
  2 1
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  June 24, 2024 4:16pm
  - Taieri
    
    Health, safety and wellbeing
    ———–
    
    And the knowledge?…is seems to be missing…
    
    2 1
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    June 24, 2024 5:12pm
    - Taieri
      
      And the knowledge?…is seems to be missing…
      ——————
      
      May be not. They actually are all quite well educated and experienced. Their managing director particularly so, but other managers are as well, which is a rarity nowadays. So what went wrong at the coal face?
      
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      June 24, 2024 5:34pm
      - greybeard
        
        I suspect too many young dickheads on their cellphones and a supervisor who decided to cut corners so as to get home early.
        
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        June 24, 2024 7:46pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Maybe it was actually criminals removing the bolts?
  
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  June 24, 2024 8:59pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    There is money in scrap metal!
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:19pm
Muttonbird

In these heady days of the conservative, reactionary right erasing te Reo Māori from discourse, isn’t it ironic this very blog has a Māori word in it, “Kiwi”.

So Kiwi good, but Waka bad. Perhaps it’s because Kiwi has been appropriated by Pakeha NZ for so long that even the most benighted understand it.

Strictly speaking though, and in accordance with the ideology of the coalition of chaos, this place should be called, “Apteryxblog”!

Lol.
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June 24, 2024 3:31pm
- Taieri
  
  erasing te Reo Māori from discourse
  ——–
  
  Could you please translate the above?
  Into English, or into Maori?
  
  2 1
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  June 24, 2024 5:14pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Ah, but is Kiwi exclusively a Maori word?
  
  It’s definitely a proto-Polynesian word…. pronounced variously as kivi or kiwi-kiwi in some Pacific Island groups (Cook Is; Tuamotu).
  
  And you seems to be the only one on this blog in χάος.
  
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  June 24, 2024 6:46pm
- Dave
  
  It’s quite normal to use many distinctive, indigenous words to refer to distinctive, indigenous plants, animals and cultural practices, and no more surprising that non-Maori New Zealanders should refer to themselves by the indigenous name of our distinctive national bird than some Australian sports teams call themselves ‘Wallabies’, an indigenous word with an English plural.
  
  Where two language groups mix a lot we can expect voluntary vocabulary exchange – thus English language has incorporated numerous Scandinavian and Norman-French words.
  
  The objection to incorporating many Maori words into English ‘discourse’ recently is that their incorporation is very much from the top down without regard to popular use, preference and understanding, and despite the existence of widely understood, everyday English equivalents.
  
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  June 24, 2024 7:37pm
rouppe

Is that a watermelon brooch Golriz is wearing?

A watermelon of “Green on the outside, Red on the inside” lore?
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June 24, 2024 3:49pm
- Ghost
  
  Watermelon represents Palestinian solidarity
  
  https://time.com/6326312/watermelon-palestinian-symbol-solidarity/
  
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  June 24, 2024 4:01pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Yes, she supports Gender Apartheid- and theft.
    
    6 2
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    June 24, 2024 4:09pm
  - rouppe
    
    Well here it represents Marxists masquerading as environmentalists.
    
    4 2
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    June 24, 2024 4:42pm
greybeard

Maggie Pie, you have a proclivity for making predictions, so I thought I would do the same:

I bet that before the end of this year that Bluebridge will announce the purchase of another ferry for their business.
They can smell blood and will make a great business decision, and who would blame them.

Bluebridge: a business which is private, runs well and at a profit.
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June 24, 2024 4:15pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  If they can find a ferry II should be able to as well.
  
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  June 24, 2024 4:26pm
- Jethrod
  
  You heard it here 1st!
  
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  June 24, 2024 6:56pm
- peterwn
  
  They are probably already on the lookout for another ferry.
  
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  June 24, 2024 7:21pm
BeaB

If Golriz had the same security as Jacinda from 2019 why didn’t they stop her on her many shoplifting jaunts? Or at least report this unusual activity to a superior?
Did her various mental ailments cause her to steal from KMart? Or did the fever come over her only when she saw covetable, luxury goods?
And why can’t our judges get on and judge? Surely it isn’t hard to come prepared with a set of possible sentences, listen to the arguments and make a decision. No wonder our courts have a backlog and cost us a fortune.
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June 24, 2024 4:20pm
MCōs

I see the government has suddenly found a whole lot of extra money for Pharmac and the cancer sufferers who are currently having to fund not only their medication, but also the delivery only have to wait until winter’s end for help from the taxpayers
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June 24, 2024 4:26pm
- Muttonbird
  
  When is a budget not a budget? When Nicola Willis does it.
  
  $600M just magicked up because Luxon was taking serious damage.
  
  Sheesh!
  
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  June 24, 2024 4:31pm
  - greybeard
    
    National said they would fund those drugs in their first term.
    Can you count ?
    
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    June 24, 2024 5:01pm
    - Chris Nisbet
      
      Maybe not that high.
      
      4 1
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      June 24, 2024 5:54pm
    - Muttonbird
      
      No, they said this year. They’ve had to do a budget blowout and/or some shifty numbers to achieve it and only under massive pressure from their voting base because make no mistake, this is a response to a Pakeha disease.
      
      I gather they are moving the funding to the next budget but bring some treatments online from October.
      
      At least Shane Reti apologised, Luxon couldn’t even bring himself to do that. I suspect his massive ego prevents it.
      
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      June 24, 2024 6:03pm
  - Swifty
    
    Labour never funded those drugs at all, over their entire six years – all while recklessly spending tens of billions annually more than the Key govt.
    
    What does that say about them?
    
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    June 24, 2024 5:14pm
    - Muttonbird
      
      It says they didn’t interfere with the Pharmac model as per the required independence.
      
      The clowns in charge now fucked around and found out.
      
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      June 24, 2024 6:42pm
      - Philview
        
        It didn’t stop Chris Hipkins from slagging off the Government for being too slow to fund the cancer drugs. Err Chris weren’t you Minister of Health back in the day when the media didn’t give a toss about funding cancer drugs.
        
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        June 24, 2024 8:31pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Mutton they listened to the feedback and corrected their course for the public good. That’s what good govt does. Unlike the slippery shitshow of word salads and utter failure of the last 6 years!
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:02pm
Maggie Pie

G2 decision to be released on eve of Matariki.
Just when everyone is heading off to get pissed as chooks for 3 days.
All forgotten about by Monday.

NEXT!
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June 24, 2024 4:26pm
- Mike
  
  I hope your binge won’t cause you to forget anything important.
  
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  June 24, 2024 4:52pm
- MCōs
  
  When does Mr Trump get sentenced?
  It’s his first offense too. Imagine him doing community service. Those ole bone spurs would start playing up again.
  
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  June 24, 2024 4:54pm
  - Mike
    
    He’ll get a fine and ask MAGAhats to pay it for him.
    
    2 3
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    June 24, 2024 5:00pm
bennerg

Newshub reports Judge Jelas in sentencing of former Green MP Golriz Ghahraman …

she wouldn’t be imposing a custodial sentence, adding that “no one could reasonably suggest an outcome of imprisonment” for a first-time offender.

Where do these people get there credentials as a judge? Ghahraman is a multiple offender, and we can only say only the she is a first time “got caught” offender.

People who are “officers of the court” should be held to a higher level of accountability.

The pattern of offending has been established, and over a period of time. It was not a rush of blood to the head, she was not under financial stress, she had a responsible career over many years in law, and knew the consequences of her offending. She should be put away.
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June 24, 2024 4:56pm
- Muttonbird
  
  Despite the knee-jerk reaction to want to send a brown left female politician to prison, her crime was to shoplift about $9000 worth of second hand designer ware.
  
  If the sentence for that is prison, or even a fine more than $9000, the justice system is truely infected.
  
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  June 24, 2024 5:59pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    her crime was to shoplift about $9000 worth of second hand designer ware.
    
    Her “crime” was actually 4 separate incidents of stealing.
    
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    June 24, 2024 8:00pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Brown? More sort of beige? You really think people care about her skin colour?
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:05pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Here Muttonbird bends truths and lies with alacrity by stating:
    
    1. Golriz is brown. No she is not, at best she is olive.
    2. Diminishes the stealing by claiming the goods were second hand. No they weren’t.
    3. Diminishes the quantum of stealing, but using the singular shoplift. No it was multiple occasions of shoplifting.
    
    Why are Marxist’s so good at lying?
    
    Marxism is founded on the principals of aetheism. For the State to be paramount it must usurp God. The trouble is that a house empty of God doesn’t stay empty, instead it becomes a house of demons. The head of the demons is Satan, also known as the father of lies. So Marxists, guided by their father are very accomplished liars.
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:34pm
- greybeard
  
  The Greens downtickers are out in force tonight, as expected.
  
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  June 24, 2024 6:17pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Milky is green?
    
    2 1
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    June 24, 2024 9:06pm
BeaB

It’s a crazy world when you hear a bloke in the radio complaining because his pharmacy charged him for medical advice and ointments when he could have taken his daughter to the doctor for no charge and free prescriptions that would have worked better.
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June 24, 2024 5:09pm
- Ian Boag
  
  Might have had to wait a week or three for the GP appointment …
  
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  June 24, 2024 5:34pm
Country Air Ian.

I have been pondering recently what makes a good political leader.
Came across an item from Time published a couple of years ago.
https://time.com/5713400/10-lessons-history-great-leaders/

1. Energy
2. Ability to plan—and Adapt
3. A Great Memory
4. Luck
5. Understanding Public Sentiment
6. “Well-timed Unreasonableness”
7. Steady Nerves
8. Inspiring Persistence
9. Empathy
10. Political Awareness

https://time.com/5713400/10-lessons-history-great-leaders/

I would include. Outstanding .
Sense of purpose

Then I look back to NZ Political leaders and apply these 11 ideas.
I am sure we all have opinions that will differ due to our own political bias.

For me. One of the outstanding will probably be unknown to many.
Tony Ryall as Minister of Health 2008-2014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Ryall
Also thinking Norman Kirk PM 1972-74
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Kirk
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June 24, 2024 5:35pm
Chris Nisbet

Is it really a ‘u-turn’ (as described by Newshub) if a government does what it said it would do?
Maybe we’re so used to governments not doing what they promise that when they actually do deliver we think they’ve changed their minds.
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June 24, 2024 5:58pm
- Muttonbird
  
  It’s a U-turn because they left a really sensitive and personal campaign promise dangling for people who are going through a lot. They used the promise to get votes, then Nicola Willis spat in the faces of those cancer sufferers and their families.
  
  No wonder she was absent today. Embarrassing!
  
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  June 24, 2024 6:53pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    They said they got it wrong and fixed things up pretty quickly if you think about it. That’s what sensible people like to see. 😊
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:08pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Oh boy. 329 comments as at 6.03pm today.
No wonder work does not get done when Monday has all you lot on Kiwiblog to start the week.
Is everyone on this blog retired like me? Or there are others who just glide in the Public Sector? Try and contact anyone in the Publick sector and you get the NZ version of Siri or Alexa.
I do realise that I was always too busy ‘working’ to notice this before.
Fuck!
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June 24, 2024 6:09pm
- Muttonbird
  
  I drove a lot of that traffic. I’m self employed, worked yesterday, so today is my Sunday and Apteryxblog got it in the neck.
  
  Get used to it, lol.
  
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  June 24, 2024 6:49pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Joe, yeah that Joe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0kA2bg2gZo
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June 24, 2024 6:15pm
Chris Nisbet

There’s talk about needing an ocean-going tug to cover ferries getting into trouble outside the harbour.
What are the odds it’d be battery powered? 0%, I reckon. Well, as long as rational people decide what to get, that is.
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June 24, 2024 6:21pm
Gravelroad

Anybody on here willing and/or able to translate the somewhat lengthy Te Reo speech given by Dame Patsy Reddy at the start of the All Blacks team announcement on TV this evening?
It is one thing to speak a different language in the desire to be politically correct, but another thing entirely that a good proportion of those listening to it don’t have the courtesy of translation at the finish.
Not good enough for the Rugby Union to be used in this way.
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June 24, 2024 6:39pm
- Muttonbird
  
  Did someone say some Māori words on the TV which you took exception to?
  
  I’d be more concerned with the squad. They are going nowhere with that.
  
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  June 24, 2024 6:46pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Don’t know.
    Perhaps you could translate the speech for me then I would know whether to take exception to the words, or not.
    Go on, you know you know you want to..
    Astound us with your knowledge……,,
    
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    June 24, 2024 7:54pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    What is the main purpose of NZ Rugby? I would think it is to grow the biggest fan base possible.
    
    Did Patsy Reddy, NZ Rugby Chair, contribute towards the main purpose of NZ Rugby by delivering a speech entirely in Te Reo Māori without an English translation? Unlikely. It is hard to see how communication in a language that the minority of the audience would understand would endear fans to the game of rugby.
    
    However, she did a great service for cultural Marxism today. It was a real win for the Progressives. Why would the progressives be more important to Reddy than the code that she Chairs? Could it be that she owes her career to progressives and diversity hires?
    
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    June 24, 2024 9:51pm
- Quail
  
  Agree Gravel .These people are invited into our living rooms via TV .The very least they could do is provide a translation that the great majority could understand.
  It reminds me of a certain South African rugby tour after match functions where the host addressed the teams solely in Africaans.The All Blacks manager of the time reeled off a meaningless list of NZ Māori place names.
  That had the desired effect of the hosts thereafter ensuring a translation.
  Ms Reddy’s performance was,like the South African, rude and unacceptable!
  
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  June 24, 2024 7:37pm
Ghost

Come on Darleen give another greenie a chance at scandal

The Electoral Commission says it has referred Green MP Darleen Tana to police over an allegation she had magazine advertising that did not carry a required authorisation statement.

Article
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June 24, 2024 6:50pm
- peterwn
  
  Waste of Police time. I would rather the Police were out catching speedsters or burglars than having to deal with this sort of non-issue. A stern letter (copied to the media) from the Electoral Commission would have sufficed.
  
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  June 24, 2024 7:28pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I agree. A police investigation is bizarre. It should be an infringement issued by the Electoral Commission. A $500 fine and a required public apology.
    
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    June 24, 2024 8:46pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      A fine is fine as long as it acts as a deterrent. $500 is too low, perhaps $10,000 would work.
      
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      June 24, 2024 9:43pm

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