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June 16, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 16 June 2024

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General Debate

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artemisia

Contractor or employee? Quite a few posters here have indicated they are or have been self employed so thought this might be of interest.

The below link is a very good summary of three ongoing worker status proceedings – Uber drivers, Gloriavale workers, NZ Post courier drivers – plus some other current employment matters. I wonder if Uber drivers realise what their work days will look like as employees. If they have work days.

The gig economy continues to expand in New Zealand (and globally), and so does litigation over worker status. For this reason, worker status remains front of mind for many workers and organisations (both public and private employers / engagers). The steady flow of worker status litigation is set to continue this year …

We have a small tradie business engaging self employed contractors or other small /medium businesses as needed. No employees, as why would you these days?

https://www.hcamag.com/nz/specialisation/employment-law/changes-in-the-workplace-impacting-business/493416
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June 16, 2024 8:07am
- cmm
  
  For me, one of the bigger benefits of contracting over employment is that it gives me a sort of buffer between myself and the HT expectations of the company.
  
  Most notably I am generally not required to participate in their wokery.
  
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  June 16, 2024 6:45pm
Simon

GAE wants NZ to be weak generally be also militarily. NZ could afford decent battle tested military systems purchased from Russia. But the uniparty are vassals of GAE.

The BrahMos-II surface to ship missile system is a high quality weapon a fraction of the cost of US systems.

NZ can be neutral with viable defense systems.
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June 16, 2024 8:19am
- Cassandra
  
  Ridiculous. We cannot afford neutrality, let alone the dubious morality of it.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:54am
  - Jake Dee
    
    Dubious morality or pseudo moral preening?
    Secure the national defense first. You can work out if you are sitting with the cool kids in the cafeteria later.
    
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    June 16, 2024 5:48pm
- Jake Dee
  
  Agreed.
  The current war in Ukraine has shown at lot of US military equipment to be overly fussy, of limited effectiveness and incredibly expensive.
  An enormous amount could be done by New Zealand, in New Zealand for New Zealand’s defense.
  
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  June 16, 2024 5:44pm
- cmm
  
  Simon: I somewhat agree.
  
  NATO, or NATO aligned, typically forces you to play with NATO weapons. These are massively expensive and are often pretty crap and certainly are not good value for money.
  
  My proposal would be to adopt the Swiss model. That is purely defensive with a non-expeditionary military.
  
  This is low cost and can be highly effective.
  
  Where you end up really spending money is on expeditionary forces. The logistics of getting a force to faraway locations, then looking after them, is massively expensive.
  
  A purely defensive force is relatively low cost.
  
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  June 16, 2024 6:51pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    I generally agree,
    BUT Switzerland’s model is based on the particular geographic and political situation of Switzerland, New Zealand’s is radically different.
    Switzerland has mountainous terrain, an almost 2,000km border with 5 countries and over the last 500 years it has been threatened or attacked by all of them (probably can discount Lichenstein).
    New Zealand is a maritime nation, sooner or later, one way or another we will have to move across the Pacific. That means some sort of a navy and some sort of an air force, which means some sort of an expeditionary force.
    I mentioned somewhere else on Kiwiblog today (the Ukraine debate) that Offense and Defense are like Poison and Medicine. They aren’t opposites, they are different points on the same line.
    
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    June 16, 2024 8:53pm
Spam

Anyone else noticed when Stuff posts an opinion piece from a right-wing perspective, they include a disclaimer (“we provide opinions from all sides” blah blah), but when it is from a left- wing perspective they don’t?
I wonder why? Trying to normalise one perspective and highlight another as an outlier?
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June 16, 2024 8:19am
- Swifty
  
  I noticed that with Damien Grant’s column.
  
  Quite revealing isn’t it?
  
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  June 16, 2024 8:38am
- redeye
  
  Maybe that’s an indicator of which side complains the most.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:16am
- peterwn
  
  There was no front page disclaimer when stuff prompted Tory for the Wellington Mayoralty. And of course they will not acknowledge any blame for the disaster they helped to create.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:24am
- The Other Rusty
  
  It’s a veiled trigger warning. Can’t have people accidentally reading it and feeling ‘psychologically unsafe’.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:48am
- Muttonbird
  
  Rubbish. Every opinion piece on Stuff comes with that statement.
  
  Paranoid, much?
  
  Of course, Damion Grant’s writings should come with an addition warning: you will be much stupider after reading this.
  
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  June 16, 2024 5:17pm
  - The Other Rusty
    
    It’s a trivial exercise to prove your assertion wrong. Please screenshot the latest example of Stuff stating that any of their regular opinion writers are coming at things from a socialist angle.
    
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    June 16, 2024 8:18pm
imalwaysright

Any developments on the Tamihere-Electoral Commission-MSD-Statistics Department conspiracy ?
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June 16, 2024 8:43am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Not since a couple of days ago…
  
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/14/micheal-heron-kc-pania-gray-to-lead-tpm-census-claim-inquiry/
  
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  June 16, 2024 10:11am
- peterwn
  
  Only the Treaty Tribunal saying that Maori were being ‘gaslighted’. I doubt that there was any gaslighting in NZ in 1840.
  
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  June 16, 2024 12:09pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    True..
    
    Seemed to have arrived around the 1860s…
    
    Gas lighting
    The first system of street lighting to be installed in many towns and cities was gas street lighting. Gas lamps were in use in the main cities from the 1860s. By 1876 Christchurch boasted 152 gas lamps.
    
    https://teara.govt.nz/en/streets-and-lighting/print#:~:text=The%20first%20system%20of%20street,and%20extent%20was%20still%20limited.
    
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    June 16, 2024 9:40pm
Bridgenag

PRESIDENTIAL RACE
CNN Announces News Rules for First Presidential Debate

https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/cnn-announces-new-rules-for-trump-biden-2024-presidential-debate-5669341?utm_source=ref_share&src_src=ref_share&utm_campaign=rtbn-cc&src_cmp=rtbn-cc
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June 16, 2024 8:45am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The media will report a win for Joe of course.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:12am
  - 7kiwi11
    
    I’m surprised a win for Joe has been announced already.
    
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    June 16, 2024 9:34am
- redeye
  
  Will it include drug testing.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:25am
  - Mike
    
    Only for the candidates’ sons.
    
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    June 16, 2024 10:39am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      SOTU Biden was as high as a kite. You know that Mike.
      
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      June 16, 2024 12:02pm
      - waikatosinger
        
        When I VPN via the US I get US election ads. The last one I saw from Biden was spliced together from 5 to 10 second segments. So. Much. Cutting. The man can’t even complete a sentence.
        
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        June 16, 2024 9:55pm
- Inandout
  
  Brid, I heard that the drug given to Joe before he appears on major events is a type of amphetamine, commonly sold over the counter. With an addled brain to contend with the drug does not last long in his body.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:26am
  - Mike
    
    And I heard that Donald is a lizard creature in human disguise.
    
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    June 16, 2024 10:41am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      No, that is King Charles.
      
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      June 16, 2024 12:03pm
      - Mike
        
        We used to have a commenter here who was firmly convinced that Elizabeth II personally ate several orphan babies while visiting Canada in the 1960s.
        
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        June 16, 2024 12:09pm
- kevn
  
  Bridge… Might end up Trump and RFK with biden coming in off site via Ai. Somehow.
  https://x.com/thevivafrei/status/1801347846974661062?
  
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  June 16, 2024 10:23am
Bridgenag

Psychological Bioterrorism
An address to the “No to Agenda 2030” conference in Rome, Italy

“In my opinion, the promoted fear of the current “Avian Influenza” strain is one example of “Disease X,” which the WHO has been warning of. However, “Avian influenza” is not the threat to human health that it is being promoted to be. To the best of my knowledge, there have been no documented human deaths from this version of Bird Flu, and there is no evidence that it is being transmitted from human to human in a regular or sustained fashion. This appears to be another example of “Psychological Bioterrorism”, which is the focus of this lecture.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/psychological-bioterrorism?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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June 16, 2024 8:47am
- kevn
  
  Bridge… Another one.
  https://quoththeraven.substack.com/p/bird-flu-fear-and-perverse-incentives?
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:23am
greybeard

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/missing-rose-of-tralee-contestant-33036518
Some more info about that missing Auckland woman: the Irish newspapers have a lot more info than any NZ media outlet !
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June 16, 2024 8:50am
- lifesgood
  
  I know this family friends of my sons. It makes it sound as if she wasn’t chosen NZ’s rose in the comp. She actually pulled out due to covid. Big difference.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:43am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  26 year old found dead; dive squad active in Henderson Creek. Not being treated as suspicious.
  
  RIP
  
  http://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350259720/missing-auckland-woman-found-dead
  
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  June 16, 2024 5:49pm
  - greybeard
    
    Very sad. What a waste of a life. So much tragedy recently.
    
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    June 16, 2024 6:35pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Is it time to repeal the Maori Seats in Parliament or should we go full-out with integrating Tikanga into our electoral process?

https://www.nzcpr.com/the-maori-seats-in-parliament-an-anachronism/
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June 16, 2024 9:02am
- kowtow
  
  The time to repeal those seats was way back when the property franchise was ended.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:06am
  - PurplePen
    
    Agree, and when not done back then should have been done in 1986 when the Royal Commission recommended they be abolished.
    
    I find it astonishing that govt agencies appear to be afraid to act when any maori organisation steps out of line. Its a form of corruption.
    
    I read the piece in the link and it refers to Waiparera Trust likely just saying ‘treating’ is their way, in other words, tikanga. Except, we’re all bound by laws passed by Parliament and tikanga doesn’t mean nor provide exemption from any law. So treating in the election process is unlawful, tikanga or not.
    
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    June 16, 2024 10:23am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  This will send Te Cowboy off the deep end.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:16am
  - PurplePen
    
    Hope so. Can’t wait. I suspect this is in NZ First and ACTs minds but not until the next 3 year term.
    
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    June 16, 2024 10:24am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Te cowboy is one of Tamiheres painted puppets. He will do and say exactly what he is told to.
    
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    June 16, 2024 10:42am
  - AitchW
    
    SO I do hope so, the more he and his sidekick froth at the mouth, the more TPM swing voters will be put off.
    The hard core will, of course, cheer him on however such support will simply further illuminate their madness.
    
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    June 16, 2024 11:22am
- cmm
  
  When Dame Whina Cooper said “racial differences would be solved in the bedrooms” did she mean that:
  A) Maori would be diluted into non-existence (as they pretty much are now, genetically speaking)
  or
  B) Everyone would become Maori through the “one drop of blood” doctrine.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:23am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    A) In my mind Dame Whina was not a Racist.
    
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    June 16, 2024 12:07pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Once upon a time….
this 13 year-old girl would have been under the care of some (colonial) authorities… but nowadays it appears she is free to wander around all day attacking school children.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/news/rotoruas-kaitao-intermediate-school-staff-and-students-allegedly-attacked-by-13-year-old-girl/4NLQETTCYNF3ZCWU3UHAAFTHJY/
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June 16, 2024 9:14am
- rouppe
  
  To be honest i can’t work out why the students didn’t form up together, go out as a group of 50 and give this feral some attitude adjustment.
  
  Clearly the school staff and other authorities weren’t being effective.
  
  Just putting locking gates on the entrance is treating it like Bagram base. Fine if you’re inside the gate, but manifestly unsafe otherwise
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:43am
  - kowtow
    
    Cos te media paahti aren’t giving the full story are they . The girl’s entitled to privacy by law but possibly comes from a family that would use greater violence in response , who knows?
    
    But what we do know is our society is broken , we’ve gone soft on everything and soft in the head.
    
    The principal says the school’s “safe” , despite attcks and multiple police interventions and fortifying the place .
    
    The mayor of Dunedin recently said in response to a fatal stabbing involving children right outside the Cop Shop that the place is safe !
    
    We really do live in an Orwellian dystopia.
    
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    June 16, 2024 11:35am
    - AitchW
      
      What sort of upbringing must the psychopathic child have had to act like this at 13? Where the hell is Oranga Tamariki?
      Let’s us hope that if she is taken from the toxic feral swamp she currently inhabits she isn’t sent to live with ‘Aunty’ to be exposed to more of the same.
      She really needs to be in an institution.
      
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      June 16, 2024 3:07pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        That Orange place is in R. T. Rower.
        
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        June 16, 2024 5:19pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Gates might look good but there is a simple wooden fence down the side in the photo.
    Gates, silly kneejerk reaction.
    
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    June 16, 2024 12:09pm
    - kowtow
      
      Yep , expensive and pointless, virtue signalling, box ticking.
      A typically “progressive” , modern ,dystopian response.
      Cost won’t be coming out of their pockets .
      
      “Look, we did do something!”
      
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      June 16, 2024 12:56pm
- lifesgood
  
  She is insane and a danger to the community. How long before she murders someone? She should be locked up.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:48am
- greybeard
  
  Surely the logical solution is to arrest the teen, not build a bloody gate !
  
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  June 16, 2024 10:11am
  - Jethrod
    
    20 ticks up, needed here
    
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    June 16, 2024 10:42am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    But but but she has rights!//
    
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    June 16, 2024 12:11pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Where is the photos of the scumbag and its parents?
  
  The public and students should know what they look like so they can protect themselves .
  Would that not be the sensible thing to do?
  
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  June 16, 2024 10:48am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Nope, she has rights.
    
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    June 16, 2024 12:12pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Exactly . As we know, the jails are full of people who have breached the privacy of criminals !
      
      Its hard to understand why officials and media have such fear of the privacy act when dealing with these scumbags.
      Same with name supression.
      They wrap criminals in a cloak of protective secrecy.
      
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      June 16, 2024 1:35pm
- NothingLeft
  
  When rule of law fails, the police not keeping the community safe from an obvious evil shit, eventually the community is forced to take matters into it’s own hands.
  
  Lacking legal standing vigilantes don’t have the luxury of gentleness. Police need to stop this girl properly now or she and her family are likely to end up severely injured or dead (houses being burnt down in retribution is common in lawless communities – we’ve seen many such cases in past in NZ)
  
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  June 16, 2024 3:10pm
Maggy Wassilieff

How long before tikanga rules us all?

“We are taught there are three Law systems of New Zealand. The first Law was Tikanga, the second Law is the current “Pakeha” system, and the third Law is the one that is being created with the re-introduction of Tikanga.”

https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/06/gary-judd-kc-tikanga-regulations.html
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June 16, 2024 9:31am
- cmm
  
  Yes, that is certainly in play.
  
  Tikanga is essentially the law of the bash. Might is right. It never completely went away.
  
  Given the rise in gangs and packs of feral youth beating people up (including Miss 13 year old above), we can see exactly what the rise of Tikanga will bring.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:37am
- PurplePen
  
  Below is section 71 from the 1852 NZ Constitution Act. Its interesting in that it says maori on their own land can practice their own way with each other. And it only applies when on their own land. But qualifies it .. no repugnant acts. Its also worth noting this section is only a temporary measure. Also the 1852 act was entirely superceded by section 26? in the 1986 similar act that made NZ truely independent. What I can’t find is are their any intervening laws related specifically to maori and their customs?
  
  71. And Whereas it may be expedient that the laws, customs, and usages of the aboriginal or native inhabitants of New Zealand, so far as they are not repugnant to the general principles of humanity, should for the present be maintained for the government of themselves, in all their relations to and dealings with each other, and that particular districts should be set apart within which such laws, customs, or usages should be so observed:
  
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  June 16, 2024 10:32am
- Swifty
  
  Thanks Maggy.
  
  “Justice Glazebrook is a devotee of decolonisation. In her speech she said, “I would suggest that, until we complete the process of decolonisation, the rule of law can only be considered a work in progress. The new place of the Treaty and tikanga in the law is a start. There are of course other initiatives underway, including within and outside the courts, but these are beyond the scope of this paper” (pages 22-23). Footnote 135 to the published speech cites an article claiming that “at a fundamental level, decolonisation involves the taking back by indigenous people of power and control.”
  
  Yes, she’s nearly right. What she should have highlighted is the purpose of decolonisation is to hand power and control to a thin slice of elite indigenous people, academics, legal practitioners, politicians and their allies.
  
  The ordinary man and woman in the street? On the farm? In the factory, orchard or fishing vessel?
  
  Exactly how will they be better off?
  
  No one ever says – something I find of huge and vital importance and concern.
  
  It is a gaping hole and one that I just never see anyone attempting to answer.
  
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  June 16, 2024 10:42am
  - PurplePen
    
    There’s an implication in such papers that colonisation by the English was a bad thing. Rafe Heydel-Mankoo, historian, gives a lecture on colonisation at Cambridge University. In it he provides stats that show how colonisation has significantly benefited regions such as in life span, ecomony, crime, housing education.
    
    https://youtu.be/O02RrKCZ64Y
    
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    June 16, 2024 11:44am
  - Jack5
    
    Justice Glazebrook’s biography on Wikipedia show an intelligent star of the Left’s progressive elite. She should be better known among us, the hoi polloi.
    
    The Wikipedia entry notes –
    
    – The Glazebrook doctorate from Oxford titled: “Justice in transition: crime, criminals and criminal justice in revolutionary Rouen, 1790–1800.” [ The French Revolution was from 1789 to 1788.]
    
    And …
    
    – She was official stand-in at home for NZ’s Governor-General while Dame Cindy Kiro was off to the UK for the Queen’s funeral in September 2022.
    
    [Other NZ representatives at the funeral included, of course, Jacinda Ardern. As a South Islander, I found interesting the inclusion in the funeral squad of Tipene O’Regan of Ngai Tahu.]
    
    –
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Glazebrook
    
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    June 16, 2024 11:46am
    - HeatherW
      
      Sir Stephen O’Regan would have been included as he is a member of the Order of NZ.
      
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      June 16, 2024 5:55pm
  - waikatosinger
    
    Decolonisation is a ridiculous notion – like trying to stuff a baby back in the womb.
    
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    June 16, 2024 10:02pm
- fernglas
  
  Legal systems are political, and have been ever since the Code of Hammurabi and the Ten Commandments. They are essentially devices for regulating people’s day to day interactions, and as such, tend to evolve as society does, although not all legal scholars agree. The tension is best illustrated by the two schools of constitutional thinking in the US, originalism vs. a living constitution. In simple terms, should the law be interpreted as it was when it was passed, or should it be interpreted in light of evolving societal mores. Literal or purposive, in New Zealand parlance.
  There is no doubt that, in this instance, Susan Glazebrook and Joe Williams support the latter approach, while Gary Judd appears to support the former. Whether you like it or not, tikanga has become a more significant part of New Zealand culture, and as such will have an increasing impact on how laws are interpreted and applied when a purposive approach is taken. That approach has been the prevalent judicial approach for many years now. For an analysis of the Supreme Court’s approach to statutory interpretation, see https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/assets/speechpapers/sisc.pdf
  And if tikanga is to be a significant factor in statutory interpretation, the the law schools would be remiss to not include it in their teaching.
  So I think Gary Judd is on a hiding to nothing here
  
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  June 16, 2024 4:46pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Workers get their say ahead of health and safety overhaul. Not before time.
Health and Safety is out of control – just a tick box process.
“people can’t see the wood for the trees” when it came to compliance.”
Compliance is beyond ridiculous. I worked in a steel fabricating workshop made of steel and concrete. Guillotine, pressbrake, drilling machines, welding machines, oxy/acetylene plant, many small electric tools, all steel workbenches.
One day we had a ‘visit.’ We had six fire extinguishers but he said put in four more. Stupidity! I’ll give them a hint – steel does not burn, neither does concrete.
Health and Safety has been modified and amended over the years by people who have no clue. They can’t see the wood for the trees.
Best keep the loopy Greens away from this, they are a problem.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/health/other/workers-get-their-say-ahead-of-health-and-safety-overhaul/ar-BB1ofihz?
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June 16, 2024 9:36am
- cmm
  
  You had six, she wanted ten. If you’d had ten, she would have wanted fifteen.
  
  It’s power play.
  
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  June 16, 2024 9:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It was a ‘he.’ But then again, I’m not so sure, very effeminate.
    
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    June 16, 2024 12:15pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  When compulsory unionism collapsed in NZ, the union officials re-invented themselves as H & S officials.
  
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  June 16, 2024 10:14am
  - MCōs
    
    Significant H & S changes were made as a result of the Pike River Coal Mine Tragedy, designed to prevent such occurrences happening again.
    I should imagine a lot of regulations that may seem frivolous are not just pulled out of someone’s arse.
    
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    June 16, 2024 10:37am
    - Matt Long
      
      Why would imagine that?
      Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the formulation of regulations?
      
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      June 16, 2024 11:03am
      - waikatosinger
        
        Ever heard of Chesterton’s fence?
        
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        June 16, 2024 10:03pm
  - Mike
    
    Imagine that, workers organizing to have a say in their own safety and health at work. Sounds like communism.
    
    5 8
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    June 16, 2024 10:45am
    - Matt Long
      
      Yes, if you can’t paralys industry and deal to the dirty capitalist by industrial action, then over the top regulation is the best way.
      
      9 3
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      June 16, 2024 11:06am
      - Mike
        
        Should workers have the right to stop work if conditions are unsafe or unhealthy?
        
        5 0
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        June 16, 2024 12:13pm
      - RightNow
        
        More power in the hands of bureaucracy, the authority to declare what is and isn’t safe. And although presented as being for the good of the workers, it’s really just another grift.
        To be fair though, in the civil service they are so fragile they need signs warning people there might be people on the other side of the door. No joke
        
        5 2
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        June 16, 2024 1:15pm
      - Matt Long
        
        I don’t know Mike, I guess they have to ask the union or osh commissars.
        Otherwise the HASE act requires employers to solicit ideas for improving safety from staff, but generally commissars are better.
        
        0 3
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        June 16, 2024 1:39pm
      - waikatosinger
        
        Mike: of course workers have the right to stop work if conditions are unsafe or unhealthy. Workers are not slaves. They can quit any time they like.
        
        0 1
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        June 16, 2024 10:05pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Ironworking machine. Cuts steel 300mm x 12mm.
    Hole punch at the other end. Idiot said it is dangerous, put a guard around it.
    I said “How stupid can you be? With a guard you can not use the hole punch ffs”
    
    5 2
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    June 16, 2024 12:17pm
    - marleybob
      
      The dumb arses made us put a guard on a 30 year belt drive sewing machine. I have used it for 20 yrs without one issue.
      They also made me put a Perspex guard on a bandsaw, even though it has a factory fitted guard that has been fine.
      Now with the Perspex guard fitted I can’t see the blade because of the fine dust. We all know Someone will come to grief.
      We have told the Muppets it’s an accident waiting to happen. Thick as two planks they are.
      
      6 2
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      June 16, 2024 2:57pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Company bought a new column drill press.
        Has a perspex guard and the drill won’t start until it is in place. Well it just took a hand hacksaw to cut the silly grooved square switch insert, and it was not a problem anymore.
        Idiots controlling us – fuck off!
        
        1 2
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        June 16, 2024 5:27pm
- Taieri
  
  steel does not burn
  ————
  
  Steel does burn.
  Such as in economiser boiler fires. The chain reaction of oxidation of iron metal starts at the temperature of 1100 deg C. At this temperature the boiler tubes will start burning, leading to the complete meltdown. Once such fires are established they are self sustaining and may result in the total destruction of a boiler and its surroundings.
  
  A good example of such a fire was the fire on the Australian tanker Australian Achiever:
  
  https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/1992/mair/mair46
  
  11 0
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  June 16, 2024 10:18am
  - Matt Long
    
    How many extinguishers did it take to put the steel fire out? Similar to a lithium fire I believe.
    
    4 1
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    June 16, 2024 11:08am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    This was a metal fabricating workshop not a boiler room.
    I take your point of 1100 deg. getting up to melting point.
    
    Common sense is also a problem. In a light engineering workshop I have seen guys do things that you just would not believe possible!
    
    6 1
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    June 16, 2024 12:21pm
  - AitchW
    
    Fire extinguishers are for use on small, easily extinguished fires. Not major conflagrations. I own a business which involves a range of gasses. We have both CO2 and dry powders all over the premises.
    The rules are crystal clear. In event of a fire, everyone gets the hell out unless it’s very minor, ie a smouldering rubbish bin.
    Let the professionals deal with the fire.
    
    7 0
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    June 16, 2024 3:13pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Solent soaked rag gets a welding spark, flick it onto the floor. Throw a plywood or steel offcut over it. Done. You don’t need a workshop safety expert blowing a burning rag all over the workshop with a CO2 extinguisher.
      Yes they do! And I stopped him. Fuckwit!
      
      3 1
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      June 16, 2024 5:36pm
The Other Rusty

Interesting piece over at Quillette about Canada’s government media funding. Makes $55m seem like a drop in the ocean.

https://quillette.com/2024/06/14/governments-shouldnt-be-paying-journalists-salaries/

I’d like to see our media do something similar to the Ottawa Declaration:
https://macdonaldlaurier.ca/the-ottawa-declaration-on-canadian-journalism/?ref=quillette.com
6 1
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June 16, 2024 9:55am
Jethrod

I worked from 1979 until 2001 for the then largest company in NZ. At the Auckland branch there was up to 40 LTI’s (lost time injuries) per year. Safety was a fairly lax sort of arrangement that was for other people and the company was far from proactive. The unions were not really concerned until someone was seriously injured (lose of limb as an example).
I believe on the introduction of the ECA in the early 90’s the management became far more focused. The local managers had KPI’s that involved Safety as the number one priority, like ZERO LTI’s.
The occurrence of LTI’s plummeted, and the happening of ANY incident had to be reported, be it a scratch or a near miss. The foremen had it written in their KPI’s that they were responsible for reporting everything. So it came to pass overall accidents and incidents declined with rewards for goals achieved.
The manager underwent his annual report to the CEO at 1100 one day, having had to report a serious accident that happened 6 hours before. The CEO commenced the interview with a tirade that the manager had no answer for. No matter what the excellent results in production were, they counted for nothing. He kept his job but was very chastened, which was thenpassed on down to the shop floor . SAFETY WAS NUMBER ONE.
4 1
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June 16, 2024 11:20am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  And so the pendulum swings
  
  0 0
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  June 16, 2024 7:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

MTG gets up and destroys Nancy Pelosi over Jan 6th 2021.
Oh boy, what a good meltdown!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-wbt0rwL-U
4 3
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June 16, 2024 11:42am
Surely Knott

What is a woman? What is transgender? What language do you have to use around the persons name and pronouns?

This article is interesting re these legal questions:

“Hamilton transgender woman loses home detention bid after claw hammer attack”

“A transgender woman has lost a bid for home detention after attacking her partner with a claw hammer, stating prison was unsuitable for her given her sexual identification.”

(Her sexual identification? Is your sex an identity. I thought your gender was the identity?)

“Jazz ‘Ra’ Rima-Samuels, named as David Rima-Samuels in court, through her counsel Kerry Tustin, also told Judge Noel Cocurullo in the Hamilton District Court that she had been “a long-time victim” of her partner’s violence and he was in breach of an intensive supervision sentence at the time of the attack.”

So it’s ok to call someone by their old name David? But they still call David She??

“Tustin urged the judge not to send her client to jail and issue a home detention sentence as prison was “very difficult for her”.

“She is technically still a male so is in a man’s prison.”

Technically a male. So technically a male is a legal thing in NZ. And your sex is a technical thing?

So what does technically male mean from a legal standpoint in nz. Does that mean you haven’t change your birth cert to match your gender identity. Or you have male genitalia? What if you have a female birth certificate and male genitalia what are you technically?

““She is a person who is significantly fragile by nature because of her sexual orientation which … it’s not a choice.” ““You don’t choose to be transgender.””

Hmmm so now they are linking Transgenderism to sexual orientation. Is Transgenderism sexual orientation? Transgenders aren’t always gay.

“Being transgender was something she still had “significant issues with” and caused her to be more reactive than others ”

So transgenderism can cause you to be more reactive? Citation needed.

“Police were eventually called by someone who heard her say, “I f****** killed him with a hammer”.”

So in the end the sentence was reduced to 19 months in jail. For repeatedly hitting someone in the head with a hammer and murdering them! This murderer will be back soon in a community near you. No photo given of this offender.

FFS New Zealand.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/hamilton-transgender-person-loses-home-detention-bid-after-claw-hammer-attack/CUVI2R4J6JGYRIMABFSDTS2X2M/
10 2
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June 16, 2024 12:05pm
- The Other Rusty
  
  The article is as incoherent as transgender ideology itself.
  
  7 3
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  June 16, 2024 12:48pm
- AitchW
  
  SK the whole transgender thing is a minefield for those of us who subscribe to the 2 gender philosophy. What I find especially trying is the increasing trend of newspapers referring to ‘they’ rather than ‘he’ or ‘she’. It often makes articles quite incomprehensible.
  I fear that we are headed for a world in which there are no genders. Our grandkids are in for a very confused love life….
  
  7 2
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  June 16, 2024 3:18pm
- Jack5
  
  It’s good to laugh about contentious issues.
  This is worth repeating:
  
  https://youtu.be/YjV50bNraOo?si=-JHGd6Z6XUqUxUCi
  
  3 1
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  June 16, 2024 5:18pm
imalwaysright

Five months to fix a speed camera.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350309198/attack-static-speed-camera-put-it-out-action-5-months?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign=CCwqGQgwKhAIACoHCAowzLiSCzDT-KcDMLnChAMwsuixAw&utm_content=bullets

Oddly, the article details the loss of revenue while the camera was offline, but there is no mention of the increase in accidents or deaths during the same period.

Unless there weren’t any !
11 2
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June 16, 2024 12:08pm
Maggie Pie

GOOD. MORNING. INTERNET! 😀

Just back home.
My partner headed down country on Friday with one of his mates for a stalk around.
Anyway, I got invited over to stay with his partner to experience their new custom built Sauna & Plunge Pool.
O.M.G. We’ll definately be upgrading ours in the near future.

Didn’t want to appear anti-social, so avoided blogging…… other than keeping an eye on ‘X’

Been gagging to share this with the group 😀 😀 😀

https://x.com/RifeTechnology/status/1800039694564220995

(FULL SCREEN/SOUND UP)
12 4
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June 16, 2024 12:21pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Knew I’d trigger someone here who has never known the true joy of parenthood.
  Sad lonely bastard 🙁
  
  10 3
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  June 16, 2024 1:33pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I don’t think that is the issue.
    
    4 2
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    June 16, 2024 4:40pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Any of your kids born here Bene?
      
      3 3
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      June 16, 2024 6:04pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Sauna and plunge pool.
  Oh boy, hands up who never went to the “Velvet Touch” in Hurstmere Road Takapuna.
  No replies just means you are liars, or your partner is watching Kiwiblog!
  
  2 2
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  June 16, 2024 6:45pm
Chuck Bird

The left including the Herald are most unfair. Biden is obviously confused and appears to have dementia. How many young people have not got a name wrong? There is no comparison between Trump and Biden when discussing confusion or gaffes.

US Election 2024: Trump challenges Biden to a cognitive test but gets the name of the doctor who tested him wrong

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-election-2024-trump-challenges-biden-to-a-cognitive-test-but-gets-the-name-of-the-doctor-who-tested-him-wrong/HIGRXXLZIBDANOUPCFNOKD362M/
3 4
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June 16, 2024 2:58pm
- Mike
  
  Does anyone need a reminder that Trump ‘passed’ his dementia test years ago?
  “Person, woman, man, camera, TV”
  
  2 3
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  June 16, 2024 4:18pm
  - Ghost
    
    Does he remember passing it?
    
    2 4
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    June 16, 2024 4:37pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Does Chris Hipkins pass the “What is a Woman” test?
      ( ) for Hipkins answer.
      
      4 2
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      June 16, 2024 6:48pm
Maggie Pie

Just been bringing myself up to speed with the death
of that poor little baby from Te Kuiti.
$tuff saying how sad for the mother that he’ll never
get to see her play Rugby.
Lots of people on X wondering if his dad was a rugby player as well?
There were a few photos of him last week in the msm
but they all seem to have disappeared.
8 2
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June 16, 2024 3:21pm
- cmm
  
  Since the person charged now has name suppression we are not allowed to make any assumptions, but those pictures probably went missing for a reason.
  
  5 0
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  June 16, 2024 6:53pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump forgets to take question at the end of Detroit speech.

First thoughts, maybe he just didn’t want to. Detroit is infested with Democrats.
So he forgot? After the amount of shit he has been through with the media and the Democrat stacked Court System, he forgot? So what? He has a lot going on don’t you think?

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/trump-forgets-to-take-question-at-the-end-of-detroit-speech/ar-BB1oiiAi?
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June 16, 2024 3:39pm
kevn

Contradicts what has been said on KB and various media numerous times…
https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350311465/kainga-ora-staff-dispute-claims-poor-tenant-outcomes/
2 0
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June 16, 2024 5:23pm
Ghost

Ah well, at least the planes are consistent

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has been forced to book a commercial flight to Japan after his New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) plane broke down today during a stopover in Papua New Guinea.

Article
5 1
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June 16, 2024 6:20pm
- greybeard
  
  I imagine Luxon blew a fuse as well when he heard the news.
  
  2 2
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  June 16, 2024 6:51pm
- Inandout
  
  Ghost, works out much cheaper to use an airline.
  
  0 0
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  June 16, 2024 9:22pm
- Hugh Jarse
  
  I a, starting to wonder the level of decision making with this government. Can we just lease a decent biz jet for 400-500 hours a year and let the media find their own way ? Surely someone in the higher levels of government can see how embarrassing this is ?
  
  3 2
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  June 16, 2024 9:26pm
  - Ghost
    
    Business jet won’t work. Luxon has taken a delegation of 30 business people with him on this trip.
    
    0 0
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    June 16, 2024 9:38pm
    - greybeard
      
      You could drop the “Kapa Haka” group for a start.
      
      0 1
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      June 17, 2024 8:18am
      - Jethrod
        
        They were the kapa haka group
        
        0 0
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        June 17, 2024 8:56am
MCōs

I see there was a farewell party at the Gore ratepayers expense for the departing CEO, which he didn’t want and his nemesis the mayor was invited and told not to come . . . .
5 0
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June 16, 2024 8:09pm
Ghost

The man that destroyed our health system has been rolled out to voice his views on china. Remind us again Mr Little what your government did about china spying on mp’s? Ummmmm.

Article
3 1
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June 16, 2024 9:13pm
softail 1450

Could it be possible that the alarming rates of 3rd world diseases happening in our Country is because of the 10s of thousands of unchecked immigrants who need us rather than we needing them coming into the place are bringing those sicknesses with them, is it racist to ask that question? what the hell is happening to our Country?
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June 17, 2024 4:49am

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