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June 15, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 15 June 2024

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General Debate

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artemisia

The eugyppius substack reviews a rather astonishing and failed prosecution where tweets of public covid statements were re-published.

What we learn from MicLiberal’s case is that it doesn’t matter at all what you say. All the caution in the world is not protection enough; if you embarrass and humiliate the right people, they’ll come for you.

Does that sound a wee bit familiar?

https://www.eugyppius.com/p/cologne-prosecutors-charge-twitter
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June 15, 2024 8:09am
- Bridgenag
  
  ” Calling for people to be jabbed against their will? Totally legal in Germany. Pointing out that others have called for this? Potentially a violation of the criminal code.”
  
  coming to us if the Far Left get back in
  
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  June 15, 2024 8:20am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  With the voice in my head I’m hearing a Tyrant continuously yelling “safe and effective.”
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:46am
- artemisia
  
  There is a group in our country facing possible embarrassment; war is on the table. Not to mention lawfare through a certain Tribunal.
  
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  June 15, 2024 12:33pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    The lunatics mouthing off in support of race based stabbings and violent overthrow need to be hit with the full force of the law. Stop the rot.
    
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    June 15, 2024 8:16pm
Chuck Bird

David did it and the John Key government paid him $900K. I asked Amy Adams at an AGM if she thought he did it and she said yes but if we did not give him something Joe Karam would never give up. John Key is a disgrace for what he did. He paid a mass murder for political reasons.

For the most part, when anyone talks about the Bain family murders attention soon turns to the “whodunnit”.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-bain-murders-30-years-on-where-is-david-why-are-kiwis-obsessed-with-this-case-and-why-his-lawyer-says-questions-remain/ML6FZENSGBFRHPIH3IQZNJWX3I/
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June 15, 2024 8:10am
- pdm
  
  Chuck I agree with your first three words.
  
  `David did it.’
  
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  June 15, 2024 8:38am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Do you not believe me in regard Amy Adams? If she claims I am lying she could sue me but she will not as she would end up paying me as I could and would subpoena witnesses.
    
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    June 15, 2024 8:57am
    - Colville
      
      Chuck. IIRC he was put thru the legal system and released.? Key etc took a pragmatic view and settled it.
      How about you grow up?
      
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      June 15, 2024 9:11am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Coville, The system has always been that to get compensation it is reviewed by a former judge to determine guilt or innocence on the balance of probabilities. Binnie did not do what he was asked so Collins sacked him. Collins was stood down Adams was the new Minister of Justice and Hon Ian Callinan AC QC did a new review that found on the balance of probabilities David was the mass murderer.
        
        If for some reason Adams thought Callinan got things wrong and that she thought David was more likely innocent that would mean she was stupid but not near as bad as paying someone she believed was a mass murderer.
        
        Why not ask Judith Collins if she thinks on the evidence that Robin was the killer?
        
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        June 15, 2024 10:04am
      - Colville
        
        Chuck. The review would have cost the same with the risk of a $5mil payment on top.
        As I said a pragmatic decesion.
        
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        June 15, 2024 12:11pm
      - Ghost
        
        Agree. It was the right decision. His lawyer stated they were going to continuing their legal action. This settlement saved the tax payers a lot of money.
        
        It’s done, it’s over, move on
        
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        June 15, 2024 12:19pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Coville, the review had been made and if the government gave him zero he could do nothing. Karam could make some noise but do nothing.
        
        National paid as they thought they would not lose votes from the fools who thought David was innocent. There are still some about as we can see on the Herald’s FB.
        
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        June 15, 2024 12:33pm
      - Ghost
        
        Actually you are wrong. They were going to legally challenge the report. The government paid to put an end to financial drain this case was causing
        
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        June 15, 2024 12:46pm
      - peterwn
        
        After he was acquitted in the second trial a lawyer friend (a senior member of the profession) said the Government should have just paid him $1M to sort the matter. It would have cost the Crown well over $1M to deal with the matter on top of what was paid to David Bain, not to mention the waste of ministerial and other officials’ time. I suspect that Judith Collins did not succeed with the Party leadership (and I am thinking of post 2020 election) because her general attitude then would have been similar to her attitude to handling the compensation claim.
        
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        June 15, 2024 5:27pm
    - jkt
      
      Why would she deny it?
      It is her opinion.
      
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      June 15, 2024 9:38am
- kowtow
  
  The Bainites get away with saying terrible things about the dead , who can’t defend themselves .
  
  The whole thing is perverse and reflects very badly on the “justice ” for David warriors.
  
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  June 15, 2024 8:39am
  - Damocles11
    
    A few logic fails by many in this case:
    
    1/ David was gathering the whole family at home for the weekend. He was parked outside Laniets cafe workplace and was observed to be agitated about getting her to come home. The defences big contention was that David was gathering the family together for a big meeting to confront Robin. Ok. But the evidence of what happened on that night was that some family members watched a DVD movie and all eventually drifted off to bed. No meeting. No confrontation. Logic fail number one.
    
    2/ The defence contended as follows:
    ‘Robin Bain cleaned himself up before committing suicide because he did not want to “meet his maker” while in “a fearful state with blood all over him”, the jury hearing David Bain’s retrial for the murders of his family has been told.’
    Robin was a devout Christian. The idea that a Christian would be expecting to ‘meet their maker’ after multiple murders and a suicide is the second logic fail.
    
    3/ Robin apparently left a ‘note’ – not in his own hand of course 🙄 – tapped out on a computer screen declaring that David “was the only one that deserved to stay”. Arawa Bain was a brilliant and gifted student who was head girl at her school and the pride of the family. That a lifelong educator such as Robin – who had recently clashed with David – would decide his brilliant daughter deserved to die while his paperboy son deserved to live is simply not credible. Logic fail three.
    
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    June 15, 2024 11:41am
    - artemisia
      
      Peter Ellis also maintained his innocence and multiple logic fails did not protect him. IIRC Corrections staff where he was incarcerated treated him well, did not believe him guilty.
      
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      June 15, 2024 12:48pm
      - Damocles11
        
        Ok. Different case though.
        
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        June 15, 2024 12:51pm
      - OlderChas
        
        And neither was he treated badly by other inmates – who usually deal some rough ‘justice’ to those convicted of crimes against children.
        
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        June 15, 2024 1:02pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        I heard that Ellis was concerned that David thought of him as a father figure.
        
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        June 15, 2024 1:46pm
      - Ghost
        
        David and Peter were never in the same prison.
        
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        June 15, 2024 1:57pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  Given that the conviction was quashed, the Crown has some obligation to pay some form of compensation, regardless of what you thought of the guilt of Bain or otherwise.
  
  FWIW, I believe that Bain is guilty, but the prosecution screwed up. The thing that swung it for me is the defences assertion that Robyn Bain wrote a suicide note on the Family Computer. Why not a Pen and Paper?
  
  If you were writing a note to implicate another person, that’s the best way to avoid handwriting comparisons.
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:02am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    “Given that the conviction was quashed, the Crown has some obligation to pay some form of compensation, regardless of what you thought of the guilt of Bain or otherwise.”
    
    That is not how it has always worked. Other people who have spent time in jail have got nothing as the person doing the review, usually a former judge has found on the balance of probabilities they were likely guilty.
    
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    June 15, 2024 10:08am
    - peterwn
      
      That is official policy signed off by Cabinet. Cabinet can make individual exceptions to that policy. Arguably the policy was not soundly based.
      
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      June 15, 2024 6:27pm
  - kowtow
    
    The paper boy washed his clothes after the paper round.
    
    The clothes Watson wore on New Year’s Eve were never found………
    
    Neither alone proves guilt but are just one of many strands that make up the full picture.
    
    Worryingly both are alleged to have expressed , shall we say , less than honourable intentions towards women…….
    
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    June 15, 2024 10:36am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      “Worryingly both are alleged to have expressed , shall we say , less than honourable intentions towards women…….”
      
      Such as? Generic pub bogan talk, or something more sinister?
      
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      June 15, 2024 8:18pm
  - I remember when
    
    Regardless of who you think killed the Bain family, you have to ignore a considerable amount of evidence that points to the possibility/probability it was David.
    
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    June 15, 2024 12:18pm
    - Damocles11
      
      Yet you still have people stating as fact that there was a ‘big family meeting’ when Davids own testimony is that there wasn’t. It was a Sunday night when everyone went to bed. Again, the evidence was that there was no big family meeting. The killer needed to strike that Monday morning as the family would disperse again with the weekend having ended.
      
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      June 15, 2024 12:42pm
- Matt Long
  
  “The father was dirty, smelly, grossly depressed. And talking to psychiatrists, they will tell you that when someone is totally depressed, they are irrational.”
  I’ve been told by the local crisis team psychiatrist that failing to do basic self hygiene like bathing etc. meets the criteria for self harm to trigger a compulsory assessment.
  I’ve dealt with people whose depression has developed into psychosis and also with family members in absolute denial of the evidence in front of them.
  Bain senior makes a good suspect.
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:07am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    I’d be interested to know how many suicides by 22 rifles there have been in NZ history. Seems a bloody strange weapon of choice?
    
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    June 15, 2024 9:17am
    - Matt Long
      
      I imagine people use whatever is conveniently at hand, whoever was the murderer also used the .22 as a murder weapon.
      
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      June 15, 2024 9:24am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Would there be stats on this though? Long barrelled rifle with small calibre bullets – works as a point and shoot with ability to fire multiple times, doesn’t seem such a good choice for self-use.
        
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        June 15, 2024 10:06am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Even though .22LR is a small Caliber it still has quite a reasonable Velocity
        Get one of those in the Bain and you’re probably dead.
        
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        June 15, 2024 10:25am
    - JackRabbit
      
      The problem with the Bain case, from a professional analytics case is that the public and jury were given the polarising narrative “Either David killed the family and Robin, or Robin killed the family and committed suicide with a .22 rifle” that latter which would be an almost physical impossibility. Thereby enforcing the narrative that David alone was responsible.
      
      No other possibilities were given.
      
      It is rather like saying “Lindy Chamberlain kill her baby or Aliens took the baby”, so one is forced to accept the mother did it. But as anyone should know, wild Dingos are much like Hyenas, and an adult confronting a hyena almost always ends badly. Hyenas have also taken down Lions. A baby has no show.
      
      There is plenty of data on Heyenas eating humans, not so much on Dingos. Hell, even a hungry wild doberman would chow down on a baby.
      
      I don’t have any doubt that David killed Robin, it is what he said in the call to the police, “I killed the prick”. What would your father have to do to be a prick?
      
      Who killed the rest of the family is up for debate but I sincerely doubt it was David. After all David chaired the family meeting in preparation for going to the police about the incest. An eyewitness encountered Robin shagging a young girl in his van.
      
      Robin has plenty of reasons to kill the family, if he was shagging his own daughter and the daughter was going to the police.
      
      The problem with the prosecution was they did not entertain the idea of anything other than an either David / or Robin.
      
      There is more to the story than we will ever know, some of it involving corruption or failed processes within the investigation, that ruled out looking at any scenario that pointed to David killing Robin after he discovered the dead family and/or Robin killing the family.
      
      This case, among others, points to a failure to follow the scientific method.
      
      It is also a failure to follow the scientific method that has ripped NZ apart over Covid/Vaccines/Climate Change/Banning Oil and Gas/etc.
      
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      June 15, 2024 12:04pm
      - Damocles11
        
        The evidence is that there was no family meeting, based on the testimony of David at the first trial. At some point the defence decided that ‘the big meeting’ would become a key plank of their argument, but the problem is that David had testified there was no meeting and everyone went to be bed. And yet here we have you stating as fact that David was ‘chairman’ of a meeting. Logically, even if there was a huge meeting with devastating revelations, it is not credible that everyone would have trooped off to bed in that house as if nothing had happened and then been killed in the morning.
        Somebody gathered everybody at home that weekend. That is the one incontrovertible fact. That person was not Margaret, Robin, Stephen, Arawa, or Laniet.
        
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        June 15, 2024 12:36pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    You obviously have not followed the case. Hon Ian Callinan AC QC from Oz found on the balance of probabilities David did it.
    
    As I said Amy Adams and Micheal Woodhouse believed he was guilty but agreed to paying David almost a million.
    
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    June 15, 2024 9:35am
    - jkt
      
      I share their opinion. But the court has spoken. I do not think there is a legal way to overturn the outcome of the final trial.
      
      Beyond any reasonable doubt? …. Not in my opinion.
      
      I do not think Bain is a danger to society.
      
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      June 15, 2024 9:42am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        “I do not think Bain is a danger to society.”
        
        Neither do I but he should not have got $900K.
        
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        June 15, 2024 10:10am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        There is no way the verdict cannot changed or the $900K returned. But I expect better of MPs be of the right or the left. I think it is wrong for National have paid $900K to someone who the believed was one of New Zealand’s worse mass murders.
        
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        June 15, 2024 10:45am
      - jkt
        
        Based on the fact that his incarceration was unsafe ….
        Yip, I think the government should compensate him.
        
        It is called the Rule of Law.
        
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        June 15, 2024 11:35am
      - KH
        
        Is David Bain a danger. Yes of course he is.
        Likely we will never know until something bad happens. Spooky in fact.
        
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        June 15, 2024 5:57pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      “…balance of probabilities David did it.”
      
      Balance of probabilities is not court law.
      The courts overturned the conviction.
      
      On the balance of probabilities a large portion of the last government should be behind bars awaiting trail for knowing genocide, corruption, and embezzlement. But it will only happen if a trial is started and they are found guilty in a court of law. Until then they are free to swan around the world spending their bribes.
      
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      June 15, 2024 12:14pm
      - peterwn
        
        Balance of probabilities was the criterion that Cabinet set to determine whether compensation was payable.
        
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        June 15, 2024 6:32pm
    - Damocles11
      
      We know Stephen Bain fought for his life against his killer, it was a mighty struggle. Robin Bain was so frail he was described by one witness as ‘a walking cadaver’.
      
      Here is evidence regarding the marks on David Bains body in the aftermath of the killings:
      “The scratch marks ran diagonally from Bain’s right shoulder to just past his right nipple and appeared consistent with “clawing or grappling through clothing”, Tom Samuel said. And the spacing of the scratches was “consistent with fingers”. The bruising looked like it was made by “someone pushing.”’
      
      https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/prison-guard-recalls-scratches-bain#:~:text=The%20scratch%20marks%20ran%20diagonally,made%20by%20%22someone%20pushing%22.
      
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      June 15, 2024 12:23pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Scratch marks are scratch marks. They could have easily been made by Robin as he fought David.
        
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        June 15, 2024 1:02pm
      - Damocles11
        
        No testimony from David that he fought with a homicidal Robin. Or are you saying that Robin fought for life against the killer, David?
        I refer back to Robins acknowledged frailty, and the lack of any marks in his body. Again, we know Stephen fought somebody.
        
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        June 15, 2024 2:01pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Anyone who has any doubt about David’s guilt, read the Bain Murders by the late Micheal Stockdale.
    
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    June 15, 2024 10:20am
  - kowtow
    
    Bain Snr , being dead, made the most convenient scapegoat.
    
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    June 15, 2024 10:48am
    - jkt
      
      If Bain senior was still alive he would probably be in prison serving a sentence for murder, guilty or not.
      
      A breathing Bain senior would have been suspect number one.
      
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      June 15, 2024 11:38am
  - Damocles11
    
    He might make a good suspect but I prefer to look at the evidence. Margaret was storing up jars of her own urine and would use them as a home remedy. There is evidence that some of the kids were breastfed into their teens. The family was screwed up, so a focus just of Robin does not give the true picture.
    A certain person was using prostitutes and I have read intriguing details that the incest between family members was not between father and daughter but between a certain person and their sibling. And of course, a big ballyhoo made about the family needing to gather for a big confrontational meeting and the evidence is that it didn’t happen. A family confrontation may not have been in the interests of a certain person, but the evidence is clear that a certain person did make sure the whole family was gathered at home that weekend. Arawa did not not engineer the gathering, Laniet did not, Stephen did not, Margaret did not, Robin did not.
    
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    June 15, 2024 11:48am
  - I remember when
    
    “… was dirty, smelly, grossly depressed.”
    Sounds like many of the ‘rough sleeping’ community.
    Not a group associated with a continuous stream of murders.
    
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    June 15, 2024 12:24pm
- Notsofast
  
  As the article states, he was having sex with his daughter, facts that emerged after the police obsessed with an impossible crime sequence.
  However, the incest is not the proof, it is in the forensic evidence.
  Robin killed his family and his brother lucked into the money.
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:01am
  - Damocles11
    
    No he was not. You are quoting hearsay, and it is quite disgraceful. Laniet was a fantasist, who claimed to have had a baby in PNG, something that was demonstrably untrue. You should read ‘Mask of Sanity: the Bain Murders’ by James McNeish to get acquainted with the facts.
    
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    June 15, 2024 11:53am
    - Swifty
      
      Thank you.
      
      Yes, the old ‘Robin was banging his daughter so he must have killed then all (except David)’ switcheroo.
      
      Never mind the overwhelming physical evidence pointing to David and the absolute lack of the same pointing to Robin.
      
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      June 15, 2024 12:10pm
      - Damocles11
        
        Kiwi’s just need one snippet of hearsay and they will hang on to that, apply some conspiratorial thinking, and that bit of hearsay overpowers every other bit of evidence and logic.
        Two school friends of David Bain were to testify that David told him he could rape a female jogger and use his paper-round as an alibi, but the Judge would not let that evidence be heard as apparently it would be ‘prejudicial’ to his case. 🙄
        The defence would not let David testify in the last trial because he incriminated himself in the first trial by saying he heard Laniet ‘gurgling’: experts testified only the killer could heard those sounds.
        
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        June 15, 2024 12:29pm
      - Damocles11
        
        Joe Karam is busy downticking me. 😂
        
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        June 15, 2024 1:09pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Damocles
        
        …he heard Laniet ‘gurgling’: experts testified only the killer could heard those sounds.
        
        It is assumption that the experts were correct. Humans are not robots that stop cold.
        
        It is a well known fact that bodies keep doing stuff when they are dead, including farting, expelling air from the mouth, and gurgling if blood or fluid is present, from trapped gases, even many hours later, even in the mortuary.
        
        …experts testified only the killer could heard those sounds. Experts for the prosecution, who relied on the defense either being unaware of said facts above, or not challenging it.
        
        Research / Analytics 101: Don’t rely on opinions or narratives. Get the facts!
        
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        June 15, 2024 1:16pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Damocles
        
        No., Kiwis, and Justice one snippet of evidence to create “reasonable doubt”.
        
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        June 15, 2024 1:36pm
      - Damocles11
        
        Yes, doubt must be ‘reasonable’. IMO it is not reasonable to have one piece of hearsay wipe out such a strong evidentiary rope as was created by the prosecution in the David Bain trials. It is false to claim that the directive ‘reasonable doubt’ means any bit of doubt the defence may wish to create.
        
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        June 15, 2024 2:53pm
    - Notsofast
      
      I said that was not the proof.
      However it is libel to publish that David killed his family.
      
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      June 15, 2024 2:49pm
      - Damocles11
        
        And I have not said that. I have only used logic and the evidence to paint a picture, people can draw their own ultimate conclusions.
        
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        June 15, 2024 4:42pm
  - Swifty
    
    Hey, aren’t you the guy that wrote here recently that hundreds of billions of dollars of additional (land) taxes could have been taken from New Zealanders in recent years and that “no one would have suffered”.
    
    Snigger.
    
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    June 15, 2024 12:07pm
    - Notsofast
      
      Yes I did, but a different subject.
      Only people who know what the pathologist wrote in his notebook about the gun muzzle being in contact with Robin Bain’s temple can realistically be taken seriously.
      The autopsy established the single bullet accorded perfectly with a suicide trajectory.
      Don’t take my word for it, read what the pathologist wrote.
      
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      June 15, 2024 2:47pm
      - Damocles11
        
        How shameful to post such untruths. Three Crown pathologists plus a ballistics expert testified as follows:
        
        ‘An ESR ballistics specialist has backed the view of three Crown pathologists that Robin Bain did not commit suicide on June 20, 1994 when he and four of his family were killed in their Dunedin home.’
        
        https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/bain-ballistics-expert-backs-pathologists
        
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        June 15, 2024 4:46pm
      - Notsofast
        
        I have read every book written including the several by Joe Karam.
        Robin killed his family.
        He had a 4mil hole surrounded by a 10 mil ring of soot.
        “This means the muzzle was in contact with the temple”
        Written while the body was warm.
        This is sufficient to forget the rest of the nonsense paraded as evidence for 30 years.
        But all evidence is in fact consistent with this narrative if you open your mind and begin again.
        
        (You won’t….)
        
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        June 15, 2024 8:58pm
  - NK
    
    No. Robin did not kill his family. David did.
    
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    June 15, 2024 12:29pm
    - Damocles11
      
      There was zero evidence Robin did it. The idea he cleaned himself up between purportedly committing multiple murders and then purportedly committing suicide is laughable. The defence explanation that he wanted to be clean and tidy to ‘meet his maker’ is patently absurd. He purportedly went around committing these murders, fighting with Stephen, cleaning himself up, and then tapping out a ‘suicide note’ on a computer, and then offed himself – without once urinating after getting up….he had a full bladder when his body was examined.
      
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      June 15, 2024 2:07pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        […] he had a full bladder when his body was examined.
        
        Yep, that has always been the biggie for me.
        
        You do not go from the caravan out the back, enter the house from which you have been banished, and proceed to murder four members of your own family, with a full bladder, i.e., while busting to go to the bathroom. No way!
        
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        June 15, 2024 5:00pm
- MCōs
  
  An accused can’t be convicted on reckons
  
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  June 15, 2024 1:48pm
  - Damocles11
    
    True. The abundant evidence spoke for itself.
    
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    June 15, 2024 2:07pm
    - MCōs
      
      Not abundant enough for the conviction to stick, apparently
      
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      June 15, 2024 4:07pm
      - Damocles11
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/juror-i-never-found-david-bain-innocent/47OQ3YFLBK2PLED5SNPBPZPWZY/
        
        ‘One of the jurors on David Bain’s retrial has spoken out about the case for the first time.
        
        “I think there’s been a lot of confusion about what David Bain’s not guilty verdict in the second trial means,” she told TVNZ Sunday reporter Janet McIntyre.
        
        “There’s been a lot of speculation that it means that he was found innocent. And I was a juror and I never found David Bain innocent,” she said.
        
        The woman said she didn’t believe Bain should get compensation “on the balance of probabilities”.’
        
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        June 15, 2024 6:37pm
      - MCōs
        
        Apart from the fact jurors don’t find defendants ‘innocent’ they are prohibited from talking about the their deliberations in our jurisdiction
        That’s what I was told when I was on a jury by the judge
        Might have changed of course. That was a long time ago
        
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        June 15, 2024 10:33pm
- Philview
  
  There was a retrial. Strangely key evidence that could have been tested with newer forensic science had been destroyed by the police. I always thought it strange that the police had destroyed vital evidence given the controversy of the case. I have always thought he is guilty.
  
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  June 15, 2024 3:46pm
  - MCōs
    
    You should read what happened to the evidence in the Crewe murders
    
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    June 15, 2024 4:08pm
  - Damocles11
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2479481/Jury-members-join-Bain-victory-party
    
    ‘Eyebrows have been raised by the actions of some of the jury members in David Bain’s retrial, when they joined him at a celebratory party after he was acquitted.
    Although the two jurors did nothing illegal, questions have been raised by their actions.’
    
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    June 15, 2024 6:42pm
  - peterwn
    
    The defence scored some good hits in cross examination near the start of the retrial and that set the tone of the trial. The prosecutor should have anticipated this and damage controlled the best he could. For example the Police could not say in which order the photos had been taken.
    
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    June 15, 2024 6:43pm
Matt Long

Peak oil, it’s peak oil, OMG we’re running out of oil. Nek minute.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/world-faces-staggering-excess-of-oil-by-end-of-decade-international-energy-agency-warns/OIEHO2DGIBF4JF4ABFFNC67OUQ/
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June 15, 2024 8:11am
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  So not a bad strategy to hold on to the ICE car and get cheaper fuel as EVs increase. It is after all the law of supply and demand, that price will fall as demand decreases. Except that the priests of the Climate Religion are going to make us pay penance for our sins against their religion.
  
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  June 15, 2024 8:57am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You are dreaming. 😅 Net Zero will require the ETS to force up the price of petrol to stratospheric levels.
    
    14 3
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    June 15, 2024 9:09am
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      BY – as I said the woke Priests of Climate Religion are going to make us sinners pay!👿
      
      23 1
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      June 15, 2024 9:14am
      - jkt
        
        Bene: Posts comments what he posts without actually considering what you post.
        
        Either that or he has a very strange way of saying he agrees with you.
        
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        June 15, 2024 9:52am
    - wsk12345
      
      Or the whole nonsense blows over like bell bottom trousers, the deathly covid, trans mania and similar fads.
      
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      June 15, 2024 10:38am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Hopefully the astrophysicists predicting 30 to 50 years of global cooling starting in the next few years will be right and the “climate emergency” farrago will fold like a cheap suit.
        
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        June 15, 2024 8:26pm
  - jkt
    
    Only if the supply holds up.
    
    But yeah, we have heard the story of peal oil before. When we run out of fossil fuel we will hear the final bell toll for society as we know it today.
    
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    June 15, 2024 9:49am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  This proves that aotearoa desperately needs forecasters and luminaries the caliber of Russell Norman.
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:10am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I just wish he would piss off back to Australia.
    
    14 2
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    June 15, 2024 9:55am
  - Keith White
    
    By canoe.
    
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    June 15, 2024 11:10am
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  How much of the world’s electricity is generated using fossil fuels? More than half. So taking the simplistic view, more electric cars means increasing use of fossil fuels. It’s a no brainer. And don’t try to tell me that green electricity generation will keep up because that’s pie in the sky.
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:46am
- slijmbal
  
  Worked at Shell Labs for Exploration and Production many moons ago. We were researching better ways to find and exploit petrochems. We knew the sheer amount of possible petrochems is huge and we only really used the easiest – plus there was a policy not to find too much because of the huge cost to discover and the downward pressures it would then put on prices.
  
  This is before production from shale oil and gas where the known reserves are several times larger than the traditional sources.
  
  Unless we use massively more petrochems we are fine for literally thousands of years. It will require improved technical mechanisms to exploit but we’re already seen significant improvements of the last 30 years.
  
  Peak oil is peak bollocks.
  
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  June 15, 2024 12:47pm
  - Paulus
    
    Hasn’t Venezuela still got the largest untapped fields of Oil ?
    
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    June 15, 2024 2:06pm
    - kowtow
      
      I bthink they’re eyeing up Guyana’s .
      
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      June 15, 2024 2:59pm
Bridgenag

Friday Funnies: WHO’s deep concerns
The threat posed by mis- and dis- and mal-information to human lives and health

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/friday-funnies-whos-deep-concerns?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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June 15, 2024 8:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Last one, Fauci.
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:08am
Pineapple Lumps

National Fielddays has been on at Mystery Creek, Hamilton this week.

My summary of the sentiment there: Good numbers of attendees. Better than expected milk payout, aided by a weaker NZD, and more optimism about the future as a result of Government change was evident. However, high interest rates are cramping the ability to invest.

The country has stopped heading in the wrong direction but isn’t yet heading in the right direction.
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June 15, 2024 8:20am
- Colville
  
  Pineapple.
  I was just up the road from there yesterday… Incredibly heavy sustained rain… I hope there were plenty of tents!
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:13am
Matt Long

Scope 3 emissions are greenhouse gas emissions emissions from suppliers, Fonterra has set a target reduction of 30% reduction in GGE by it’s supplier shareholders from a 2018 baseline by 2030.
The major bank cartels are also setting reduction targets in lending to GG emitting businesses.
Climate Change policy is now being set by corporations, not governments, not consumers.
Food Scarcity, brought to you by the same people who introduced aeroplanes that lose their doors because DEI matters.
https://www.farmersweekly.co.nz/news/business-as-usual-for-scope-3-fonterra/
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June 15, 2024 8:23am
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Fonterra is the classic example of a company that has lost sight that it is there to deliver for its shareholders. It seems to be impossible for an organisation to grow beyond a certain size without the executive and employees within the organisation losing the focus that their investors desire. We see the same with other companies and local and national public service entities. We all experience this as consumers of goods and services who don’t want our purchases made more expensive by investment in wokeism.
  
  Is it possible for an organisation to grow beyond a certain point without losing its focus? Any ideas how to fix this?
  
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  June 15, 2024 8:36am
  - Matt Long
    
    One issue for Fonterra is that as a mainly ingredients manufacturer, where their customers of asking ESG and Scope 3 certification they have a choice of taking lower prices or playing the game of the likes of Nestle, or organisations like McDonald’s whose cornerstone shareholders are Blackrock and Vanguard.
    As of the first quarter of 2024, the New York City-based asset management company BlackRock had total assets under management (AUM) of around 10.5 trillion U.S. dollars. This compares to 8.59 trillion U.S. dollars of AUM as of 2022.
    
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    June 15, 2024 9:17am
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Good insights Matt. The Priests of Woke have a firm grip on the system.
      
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      June 15, 2024 9:39am
    - blue collar
      
      How to fix?
      Hope like hell musk branches out into other industries
      
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      June 15, 2024 10:47am
Bridgenag

shutting down censorship? don’t bet on it.
“we don’t do that stuff no more,” they said, as they prepared to do that stuff some more.

https://open.substack.com/pub/boriquagato/p/shutting-down-censorship-dont-bet?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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June 15, 2024 8:24am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Happy Birthday “from one old guy to another.”

Birthday party with 5000 guests – tickets sold out.
Birthday cake has 47 candles.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/joe-biden-wishes-trump-a-happy-birthday-from-one-old-guy-to-another/ar-BB1of2pO?
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June 15, 2024 8:25am
- kowtow
  
  The footage of Biden bumbling around at G7 in Italy is very concerning.
  And all the G7 leaders know it. They’re actively covering for him.
  
  Anyone in a position of trust or power alleging that that man has his full faculties is engaging in election fraud.
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:53am
Beach Haven expat

The challengers to the Government ditching Maori department names rather sabotaged their own argument with their appearance at the Waitangi Tribunal. Some bloke wanted to accuse the government of gaslighting Maori.
He spoke in fluent te reo until the final word, switching to English to say “gaslighting”.
Communication is about ensuring who you speak to understands you. So if you have you resort to English to make your point, why are you even pursuing the case?
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June 15, 2024 8:28am
- Notsofast
  
  It is a scandal teachers and children are being forced to recite fake words when the real ones are a gift to the world.
  This was perfectly understood 250 years ago.
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:10am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Maori have yet to invent a word that is a translation of “gaslighting.”
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:24am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    rama hau
    
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    June 15, 2024 10:30am
    - JackRabbit
      
      101 of translations that a translation must survive reverse translation. The original Treaty of Waitangi did.
      
      “rama hau” reverse translates as “gas lamp”.
      
      Gaslighting is the act of a narcissist to have you believe that the truth you have discovered is a lie or fantasy and the your are insane.
      
      A gas lamp is a light on a wall powered by gas.
      
      There is no translation for Rama, but rama translates as “lights” and “hau” as air.
      
      By all accounts, the Maori to English translations on google are being performed by drunk leprechauns.
      
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      June 15, 2024 12:25pm
      - Tempist
        
        Or nga repera haurangi, thanks to their own work….
        
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        June 15, 2024 12:47pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        101 of translations that a translation must survive reverse translation.
        
        If only…..
        
        who could work out that single canoe/vehicle – waka kotahi – can also be translated as “travelling together as one”?
        
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        June 15, 2024 2:51pm
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  Since the term gaslighting is a cultural reference to a 1944 film called Gaslight surely Te Reo lacks any cultural reference for the term.
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:52am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That’s what I mean – invent a word.
    Carrot = kareti
    Cigarette = hikareti
    Bullshit translations.
    
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    June 15, 2024 11:59am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Indeed.
      
      Carrot = kareti which reverse translates as “college”.
      
      I fed my donkey a college
      
      Stick translates as “rakau”, which reverse translates as “wood”.
      
      To get the public to take the vaccines, Ardern, Baker et all, used the “wood” and “college” approach.
      
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      June 15, 2024 12:29pm
    - Inandout
      
      SO, it was the only way to make a 900 word vocabulary become 170,000.
      
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      June 15, 2024 2:04pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        And we wonder why the Treaty is so fucked up!
        
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        June 16, 2024 8:15am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Lets not forget that maori is a mix of stoneage era words that were not uniformly understood by the people of the time.
      The number of words was also very small because there was no need and no reason to have more than they had.
      Using maori as a legal or technical language is like using only the words to Happy Birthday to transcribe War and Peace.
      
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      June 15, 2024 2:43pm
- C-Town
  
  They’re pursuing the case to waste time and money. Taxpayer’s money. A post on this blog a few days ago pointed out that the iwi pushing the case has a website which is about 90% English, so they’re Te Reo only stance is bogus.
  
  They’re hoping that the Government will get uncomfortable with the time and money on the case and reverse the policy. Hopefully the Government stays firm and doesn’t reverse the policy. Asking the iwi why their website is mostly in English but using Te Reo in court would be a good start.
  
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  June 15, 2024 4:17pm
iMP

FAITH AND SEX. Went to see the Hopkins’ Freud movie based on the great book by Dr Nicholi. In many ways Freud and Lewis’ conflicting world views frame society today. While Freud has fallen out of popularity (sex and mind) and dissipated, Lewis (faith and mind) has become more popular. An interesting take on where modern people are at.

Freud won the Goethe prize for literature in 1930. Lewis, who taught at Oxford and held the chair of English literature at Cambridge University, produced some of the world’s great literary criticism and scores of widely-read scholarly and fictional books.

Trailer: https://youtu.be/-lM65Dm6Ytc?si=9blGL6btkdgC0z9f

I would have liked a more robust Lewis, not the cliched ‘weak Englishman,’ Lewis was quite a figure even in his day. And for Lewis to have said to Freud, “of course Sigmund, God invented sex!”

Prof Tolkien (Hobbit, Lord of the Rings) led atheistic Lewis to faith (Narnia). The latter were members of The Inklings pub group.
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June 15, 2024 8:34am
- artemisia
  
  Charles Williams also an Inkling, still a cult figure. Subject of a book The Oddest Inkling.
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:13am
- Mike
  
  Lewis had some philosophical troubles like the bogus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis%27s_trilemma?wprov=sfla1
  Shadowlands was a good film.
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:26am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    “some philosophical troubles” – meaning you don’t agree with Lewis’s Christian beliefs and will use Wikipedia to take up your argument against the man.
    
    Rather than trolling the man in his grave, why dont you enlighten us as to who Jesus was?
    
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    June 15, 2024 9:50am
    - Mike
      
      Jesus is a well-known mythological figure, so no one needs consider the fake question of lord, liar or lunatic.
      
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      June 15, 2024 11:04am
      - Don Beckett
        
        There is more proof that Jesus was a real person than there is for Aristotle, Julius Caesar, William Shakespeare or any other prominent historical figure.
        
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        June 15, 2024 11:28am
      - Swifty
        
        I wasn’t aware that Jesus had coins made with his likeness and in his lifetime Don.
        
        https://www.silburycoins.co.uk/product-category/roman-byzantine-coins/imperatorial-71-27bc/
        
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        June 15, 2024 1:32pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Thanks for sharing your true thoughts Mike. Your philosophical troubles are somewhat greater than Lewis’s. The historical record does not allow Jesus to be written off as merely a myth or legend. Which is why Lewis and others ask us to grapple with the question, who and what was this Jesus of Nazareth?
        
        The messianic Jews and gentile Christians see him as the Messiah.
        The majority of Jews proclaimed him to be a heretic. That is why the handed him to the Romans to kill.
        Muslims and Mormon’s claim he was a prophet. Superseded by their more recent prophets.
        Hindus have told me he offers one of the many paths to enlightenment.
        Aethists would say he is disillusioned because there is no God.
        Agnostics would say there are many paths to god.
        
        Jesus himself said, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No-one gets to God except through me.”
        
        You can reject this as heresy and lunacy. But it is impossible on the historic record to reject Jesus as a made up concept. Neither did he leave the gate open for the belief that there are other pathways to God.
        
        As you are someone who has pride in their historical knowledge. I would encourage you to apply the same intellectual rigour to Jesus of Nazareth. You might be surprised what you find out.
        
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        June 15, 2024 1:52pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        @Swifty.
        Jesus wasn’t a king or emperor – only those could mint coins with their image on them.
        Was that your proof ? 😆
        
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        June 15, 2024 3:00pm
      - RichardX
        
        Don Beckett
        @Swifty.
        Jesus wasn’t a king or emperor – only those could mint coins with their image on them.
        Was that your proof ? 😆
        
        JUNE 15, 2024 3:00PM
        
        That is Otto level reasoning DB.
        
        Swifty was refuting your claim that ”There is more proof that Jesus was a real person than there is for Aristotle, Julius Caesar, William Shakespeare or any other prominent historical figure.” by providing independently verifiable contemporaneous evidence of Julius Caesar’s existence.
        
        You missed his point and responded with an irrelevance.
        
        Your claim is a product of your indoctrination rather than a skeptical view of the available evidence, much in the same vein as your claim for physical evidence of a global flood.
        
        Can you provide independently verifiable contemporaneous evidence in support of your claim.
        
        Just a hint though….the bible is the claim, not evidence for the claim.
        
        And of course, evidence of the existence of a messianic wandering hebrew preacher named Jesus does nothing to prove the supernatural claims made on his behalf.
        
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        June 15, 2024 8:27pm
softail 1450

Google “ salty cracker” CNBC has an interview with a fake Joe Biden, this is unbelievable ,if it’s genuine the Biden administration is a f~~ king disgrace to humanity..
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June 15, 2024 8:37am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Mask? AI?
  Dunno, but he is not that coherent.
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:37am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Xi Obiden
    
    Say it fast and it sounds like Joe Biden
    
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    June 15, 2024 2:52pm
kowtow

Front page of the Whoreald again about “straw buyers” of firearms .

Problem is these are people already vetted by police as “fit and proper”. I’d say there’s a problem with the vetting .

The other issue is the Cops are already getting these people without the benefit of a register , so what’s the point of a hugely expensive exercise , that the country can’t afford.
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June 15, 2024 8:43am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Need a register so the gangs know where the guns are.
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:43am
Pope Punctilious II

The government breaking election promises to fund cancer drugs is a very bad look. Apparently we can’t afford those drugs (which I don’t need, I would add), or to train enough doctors. But look at the list of things we apparently CAN afford:
– an HRC that does nothing but spout “critical social justice” propaganda
– a radicalised Waitangi Tribunal
– several useless demographic ministries
– paying solo Mums to have multiple babies on the taxpayer
– “decolonisation” programs in our universities
– funding “maatauranga” studies at a higher rate than medicine, science or engineering.
Before the election when a journalist asked Luxon about Seymour’s proposal to axe the HRC and the demographic ministries, Luxon responded “that’s not National Party policy”. My question to Mr. Luxon would be “why is it not National Party policy?”.
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June 15, 2024 8:46am
- jkt
  
  The government says it will fund these additional drugs as promised, they say they just did not include a line item for these additional drugs in the budget.
  
  They say it is included in the Pharmac budget.
  
  Let’s wait and see.
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:56am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Meanwhile people are dying.
    Notice there was always money for Covid Vaccinations.
    
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    June 15, 2024 12:02pm
    - Paulus
      
      Sadly it is Nature that people will continue to die. irrespective of drugs.
      
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      June 15, 2024 2:15pm
      - jkt
        
        Born to die!
        
        3 0
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        June 15, 2024 3:27pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        True. I will die one day, no need to rush it. If I needed an unavailable drug for my prostate cancer, I would be pushing for it.
        
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        June 16, 2024 8:21am
    - imalwaysright
      
      S.O
      Good point.
      Didn’t Verral preside over the waste of $500 million of covid supplies/ drugs recently?
      I may be wrong…
      
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      June 15, 2024 2:57pm
- PurplePen
  
  It was wrong or naive for National during their electioneering to say they’ll ensure 13 specific drugs will be bought, via Pharmac. It makes drug selection political rather than based on rational analysis of need. It also takes away from Pharmac the ability to get the best price. What they should have done if anything was to say they’ll increase Pharmac funding by X amount and that’s all. A metaphor would be during electioneering saying they will tell the Research Bank to make the interest rate 2 percent.
  
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  June 15, 2024 11:42am
Pineapple Lumps

It was reported this week that the Government is ceasing the funding of the Mongrel Mob run drug rehabilitation programme. The question that really needs to be answered is “Why would a government ever pay organised crime money to rehabilitate people they had helped into addiction?”

Politicians are usually extremely protective of their personal and party brand. What circumstances could lead to a politician expending a lot of political capital to provide funding to organised criminals?

To me, this situation stinks so much that I am most concerned that organised crime has leverage over one or many of our politicians. What leverage could they have? Who would investigate this? If a politician became compromised, say a family member became an addict, ran up a large debt to a gang. How would our system pick this up and prevent it from becoming a way for organised crime to exert pressure on national decision making?
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June 15, 2024 8:50am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  “To me, this situation stinks so much that I am most concerned that organised crime has leverage over one or many of our politicians.”
  
  I suspect the explanation is much simpler: white guilt, plus fear of being branded “racist”.
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:00am
  - jkt
    
    Or a belief that people who associate with gangs can reform and then work for good from within gangs.
    
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    June 15, 2024 10:00am
  - PurplePen
    
    Agree PPII .. naive white guilted bureaucrats and minster or was it the PM? Emphasis on naive.
    
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    June 15, 2024 11:44am
- Bridgenag
  
  Also as I have said before ….the police have the “I know where you live” held over them too.
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:28am
- Matt Long
  
  One step in the right direction would be compulsory random drug testing of politicians and senior public servants.
  It’s really past time this was done.
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:28am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Yes good idea.
    
    How about full auditing of their financials as well?
    
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    June 15, 2024 9:58am
  - blue collar
    
    I’d love to pull up outside the beehive with a drug testing van .
    It would be interesting to see who dodged and why on camera .
    Add schools , councils , anywhere public money is spent .
    The damage done by drugged people isn’t necessarily a physical safety thing.,that’s the reasoning why logging and construction get hammered .
    It’s also how much damage to the nation you can do by being too wasted to perform or, influencing negative outcomes due to a drugged mindset .
    Private companies can do what they like , it’s their money .
    With public money and teachers etc , I want sober people at the wheel .
    
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    June 15, 2024 10:41am
    - JackRabbit
      
      I’ve always said that prospective MPs shoudl be IQ tested, and that elected MPs should be regularly drug tested.
      
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      June 15, 2024 1:26pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Jack
        I agree. We now have a number of voters who vote for someone because of how they look, therefore we get halfwits like adern and chippy.
        We get the odd MP with some intellect but most are dim and we would be better off paying them to stay home.
        With hindsight, I would happily have paid the adern regime a few million per annum each to not turn up.
        
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        June 15, 2024 3:11pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That would really show up in the previous Government.
    
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    June 15, 2024 10:49am
- Mike
  
  I think it might be helpful to recall some of the history our politicians share with gangs.
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/12/guest_post_politicians_and_gangs.html
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:29am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Interesting article you wrote Mike – which seems to highlight politicians struggling with how to diminish the gangs over the past 50 years. Labour 2020 government would be the first to use the strategy – let’s pay them millions of dollars. How was that ever going to diminish the power of gangs? Highlighting further how much this stinks!
    
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    June 15, 2024 9:56am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    See that Mike? Your knowledge in extensive. Never knew you had done a guest post – good job, and thanks.
    
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    June 15, 2024 10:54am
    - Mike
      
      Thanks Steve. Bottom line: gangs aren’t going away anytime soon.
      
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      June 15, 2024 11:10am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        You continue to divert away from the question of the thread – why would your labour colleagues have expended so much political capital PAYING the gangs millions?
        
        So far we have:
        1. They were naive do gooders
        2. They were scared of retribution
        3. They were compromised by their own or family activities
        4. The were corrupt getting kick backs
        
        As someone closer to the people involved what do you see as their motive?
        
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        June 15, 2024 2:13pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Does the idea of gangs not going away any time soon give you a thrill Mike?
        
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        June 15, 2024 8:29pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  More of the trail of shit that Ardern left behind.
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:48am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Why would a government ever pay organised crime money to rehabilitate people they had helped into addiction?”
  For Labour it was buying votes. I would love to see or hear any shady dealings between Ardern and Harry Tam.
  
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  June 15, 2024 12:04pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And it was always a puzzle why this chap who had been convicted of domestic violence and had a Police Safety order issued against him was appointed to serve on the Royal Commission on State abuse.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mongrel-mob-member-harry-tams-role-in-state-abuse-inquiry-being-investigated-reports/QEH2QRCNKLLID2ZISPHVLUXIYY/
    
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    June 15, 2024 12:17pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Not to mention the special privileges he got to come and go from Auckland during lockdown.
      
      It definitely stinks and I don’t believe it is explained by Labour being naive do gooders. Remember they wouldn’t let a pregnant woman come home and people couldn’t support their loved ones as they died.
      
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      June 15, 2024 2:59pm
Scooter

Read this and weep for another child killed and Oranga Tamariki put her in harms way with drug addicts. We wonder how children keep dying in NZ we’ll the govt can do something about OT for a start. Her killer only got 8 years.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/casino-ataria-wharehinga-case-did-oranga-tamarikis-haste-to-place-a-toddler-with-whanau-lead-to-her-death/ONMTJHS66JAGZFYU2KAGWAE7KE/
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June 15, 2024 9:05am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yes, McClutchie grievously assaulted the child on at least 2 occasions… but is convicted on manslaughter … not murder.
  
  Interesting that there was no mention of OT’s involvement with this family when the case was reported here in Gisborne.
  
  “We have been obviously following the case closely and not once has OT been mentioned, nor taken any accountability for placing her so quickly
  with this whānau.”
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:42am
- rouppe
  
  Weep?
  
  Tears of rage.
  
  Eight years for meeting a baby is appallingly light. I hope his prisoner peers feel the same way.
  
  I wish there were some way to make people like OT deputy chief executive of service delivery Rachel Leota feel the sort of pain that little baby suffered.
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:53am
blue collar

Apologies to redbaiter
I used to accuse redbaiter of being anti national pre election as brother baiter accused certain national candidates of being too weak or green or not to the right enough … or whatever . Seemed more like bluebaiter
I’ve been in X and redbaiter is a consistent voice for the right with great posts and banners hammering the left in an articulate evidence based way .
Still the odd one about some people on the right but it’s fully deserved .
So well done sir !
( Seems like a bloke to me , could be a Sheila I Spose . I don’t know )
We need right wing activists , people to prevent the right from going left , highlight the lunatic lefts insanity .
Good stuff .
Still can’t link but check out X . Great free speech platform
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June 15, 2024 9:20am
- The Redbaiter
  
  blue collar- “Apologies to redbaiter”
  
  Wow, thanks for the kind words my friend, and absolutely no need for any apologies. Politics is politics, and by its nature we will never agree on some things. It is just the way it is.
  
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  June 15, 2024 11:54am
herb1

surprising lack of media coverage of new financial sanctions on Russia, announced Thursday. Already having dramatic effects on Russian banks and Putin and Medvedev sound rather angry.
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June 15, 2024 9:46am
- blue collar
  
  The yanks under Biden remind me of jacinda .
  
  They never figure out unintended consequences
  The USA just signalled to the world using USA dollars and petrodollars that …… well …. You may aswell find another currency as we can’t be trusted and might pull the rug out from under you if we get pissy
  Would never hv happened under trump . He thinks long term .
  Basically Russia is our oil and gas industry for comparison . We say come back now but would you ? Would you trust the next left govt ?
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:23am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Democrats and Biden are like the Titanic reversing away from the iceberg to have another go at it.
    
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    June 15, 2024 12:07pm
- kevn
  
  herb1… A high level banker I know in the UK, tells me that London is awash with Russian cash.
  
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  June 15, 2024 10:41am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Has been for years. Friend of mine lives in Kensington and he tells me he is one of the few people in his square who are Poms. Many of the Ruskis have armed bodyguards in cars outside their mansions.
    
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    June 15, 2024 10:51am
    - MCōs
      
      I’m guessing here, but I would suspect that having “armed bodyguards in cars outside their mansions” is illegal and if your mate knows about it so do the coppers who won’t put up with this sort of carry on
      
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      June 15, 2024 11:37am
      - jkt
        
        Your trust in law enforcement is astounding!
        Beyond reality!
        Knowing something and doing something about it…. two very different things, unfortunately.
        
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        June 15, 2024 11:41am
      - MCōs
        
        I would in that case.
        Some other things not so much, but having armed thugs on the streets of London, and everyone knowing the police are doing nothing, is not a good look.
        That’s the sort of thing that happens less principled countries
        
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        June 15, 2024 3:56pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        MCos- not sure you are right as thugs taking over the motorways and streets when one of their pack are buried is also illegal. But Plod here in NZ doesn’t do anything about that.
        
        Are their people in NZ with armed protection? Undoubtedly. Most likely involved in the gangs by the number of firearms incidents involving gangies.
        
        It would be naive to think super wealthy Ruskies in London wouldn’t be security conscious. Who would have thought they would get a Polonium cocktail served in London?
        
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        June 15, 2024 4:39pm
colina

There is no Pākehā GDP, nor Māori GDP. The Government has published statistics that are wrong. NZ does not have two economies – only one.

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2024/06/15/there-is-no-pakeha-gdp-nor-maori-gdp-the-government-has-published-statistics-that-are-wrong-nz-does-not-have-two-economies-only-one/#more-29687
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June 15, 2024 10:13am
- I remember when
  
  Clearly they have also missed the Others GDP!
  
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  June 15, 2024 11:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That is what Te Cowboy wants – division and control.
  
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  June 15, 2024 12:10pm
The Redbaiter

Prime Minister Luxon- “Foreign interference is something we do not support”

Good grief. Is there a weaker statement that the PM could make regarding the Chinese Communist Party’s frequent unlawful acts and espionage in New Zealand?
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June 15, 2024 10:26am
TripeWryter

The people of Marokopa seem to be hugely sympathetic to Tom Phillips.
They’re ‘so over’ the police presence this last week, according to the Waikato Times, and scornful of the $80,000 reward offer.
We don’t know the whole story about him and why he took to the bush with his kids.
I read during the week that by court order he has lost custody of the children and that has been transferred to Oranga Tamariki.
Given OT’s inability to protect children – especially Maori and Pacific Island children – from being beaten to death by ‘carers’ I think I could understand Mr Phillips’ decisions as a father to ensure his kids’ safety by keeping them with him.
I have mixed feelings. He appears to have supporters, which must be baffling to the media people reporting on the case.
They don’t understand.
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June 15, 2024 10:31am
- Damocles11
  
  Not at all hard to understand that locals who may be friends and his extended family members would have sympathy for him. It is very common in fact. The family and friends of such criminals as ram raiders and murderers have sympathy for them as well. I’m appalled at many NZers attitude to law and order. I’m also appalled at the people popping up here to defend someone who allegedly robs banks, allegedly steals vehicles, and allegedly fires weapons at members of the public. No he isn’t a ‘great Dad’, he is a devious criminal. The people who use words like ‘woke’ to try to make this political are pathetic as well. Phillips is a mongrel, wasting taxpayer money and police resources with his deeply selfish and grossly irresponsible antics. He’s gutless, because he won’t man up and face the consequences of his own actions.
  
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  June 15, 2024 12:07pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    What actions are these Damocles11?
    
    Last I heard taking your children out of danger was not a crime. And given the timing i.e. during Covid mandates, he probably did the right thing. Plenty of people went off grid during the Covid Vaccine scam.
    
    Instead of chasing Philips, they should be chasing Ardern, Baker, Bloomfield, et all for murder by mandating vaccines they knew had high risks, and that have caused people to die. And for lying to the NZ public about it. Last time I checked, they broke multiple laws.
    
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    June 15, 2024 1:32pm
    - Damocles11
      
      The ‘actions’ are the numerous criminal offences he has allegedly committed. If he did fire at a member of the public – as alleged – and that person had been hit then he may have been facing the most serious charge there is.
      You are saying the children were ‘taken out of danger’. This is entirely your unproven spin.
      But if a child has been taken along on a bank robbery – as alleged – and then a high speed getaway is made on a motorbike…..nah, nothing dangerous about that whole situation aye.
      Then you head off on a Covid rant and try to make out this has all been about avoiding vaccines. Remarkable stuff.
      
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      June 15, 2024 2:44pm
      - Ghost
        
        It’s strange how people want the government and police to come down on crime, yet support the crimes this person has committed.
        
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        June 15, 2024 3:54pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Ghost – so far no convictions, just crimes alleged. There is a difference.
        
        It can’t be good for that family to be on the run. I hope the situation is able to be resolved without a major tragedy.
        
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        June 15, 2024 4:47pm
      - Damocles11
        
        Yes, very strange Ghost. But maybe Tom Phillips has said something about Covid that I am not aware of, and that has made this all political for them. Then there is hearsay – again, it’s a huge issue in prominent NZ criminal cases – about the mothers faults. As far as I know she has never kidnapped anyone, never allegedly robbed any banks, never fired at any members of the public. But some have chosen to align themselves with the alleged criminal.
        
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        June 15, 2024 4:54pm
      - Ghost
        
        Pineapple and yet people are constantly here talking about the alleged crimes of two politicians before they had their day in court. I guess what ever floats your boat to support a man who kidnapped his children, Rob people and business, shot and assaulted someone.
        
        Is it because he is white? If he was brown you people would really be attacking him and not writing utter crap supporting this pathetic excuse of a father who has involved his child in a robbery
        
        Thank God he’s not maori, huh
        
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        June 15, 2024 5:10pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Wow that’s a real rant Ghost. “you people” “whatever floats your boat” “thank god he’s not a Māori huh”. You need to take a deep breath.
        
        I haven’t taken a position of support nor attack of this guy. For the record, I don’t care what race he is. I don’t agree with him running off with his children, however, I don’t believe he has kidnapped them. He obviously has support, no way he could go bush for all that time. Have you ever tried to get three children to do what you want if they don’t want to? Hard for an afternoon, impossible for 2 years. The bank robbery allegation is disputed by a friend of his.
        
        Im prepared to wait and see what is found to be true and what isn’t.
        
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        June 16, 2024 12:09am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Tom Phillips has been cornered by the “Establishment.”
  Having been through a custody dispute years ago I know how tough it can be.
  I won, which actually surprised me at the time. Pricks tracking me to work. Knocking on caregiver’s doors to check on the kids. I had a good lawyer, I even kept my house.
  Tom Phillips is now desperate. I do think the kids are safe and not in any danger.
  
  He reminds me of the wild NZ boy (Howard Morrison) George Wilder. In one of the Police searches George even helped the Police looking for himself!
  George even broke into houses to take food. He always left a note.
  
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  June 15, 2024 12:17pm
  - Damocles11
    
    Did George allegedly rob banks and fire at members of the public? Why did you fight your way through the custody dispute when you could have just kidnapped the children like Tom?
    
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    June 15, 2024 12:55pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Dam, I am a camper type but not a bushman.
      My custody dispute did not make the Court, it was stopped short.
      These days my ex-wife and her new family, and my family get on real good.
      
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      June 15, 2024 3:32pm
      - Damocles11
        
        A good thing you didn’t do anything unlawful then aye Steve, even if you had been a ‘bushman’, since in the fullness of time it all got sorted out satisfactorily without criminality and a manhunt. Being a ‘bushman’ doesn’t give anyone a license to go rogue btw.
        Plenty of Kiwi’s have learnt bush skills through hunting, tramping, camping from as far back as Cubs and Scouts, but we don’t style ourselves as some sort of bush superhero and we don’t have an adoring fanclub singing our praises like we are some sort of role model to be admired.
        
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        June 15, 2024 4:59pm
rouppe

We love to call out the bad decisions, here’s a potentially good one.

[His lawyer] … suggested that a cultural report might also provide some helpful background given his upbringing on the East Coast.

However, Judge Bidois said a “cultural report won’t help him”.

“He had an upbringing like many of the Māori boys down there, but he’s been able to rise above that. He’s become an All Black, he’s run a business in the Mount, he’s had jobs …”
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June 15, 2024 11:01am
- Damocles11
  
  Cultural reports & references to ‘rugby head knocks’. These lawyers try all sorts of c-rap.
  
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  June 15, 2024 12:14pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  Matua trying the I got head knocks playing code so thats why I bought guns legally (licensed firearms holder) and sold them on to others who didnt have a license.
  
  A nice time in jail is what Matua requires… another privileged bloke trying to duck his crimes. And I say privileged as h played pro union and league so would have got some good coin behind him over the years.
  
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  June 15, 2024 3:21pm
  - Damocles11
    
    Just imagine if those firearms have subsequently been used in further acts of criminality, even to the extent that harm to other people has occurred. This was very serious offending by Parkinson, although some will no doubt convince themselves he’s no more than another of these Kiwi ‘loveable rogues’.
    
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    June 15, 2024 5:03pm
Waipuk

New Zealand to pay $1 million to UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency)

I know it is stuff all money and was made to keep the assholes from whining but the headline should have read.

New Zealand to pay $1 million to Hamas

https://youtube.com/shorts/ZunU4mOoiDc?si=3jetKHF1ix5i3uNe
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June 15, 2024 11:18am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  NZ really does need reforming.
  
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  June 15, 2024 12:19pm
Damocles11

The ‘Hato Hone St John’ people were out in force at the local mall, grouped in jackets emblazoned with ‘St John’ in front of signage with the same wording. There were a few bits of discrete signage with the ‘Hato Hone’ name. I find it remarkable and quite disingenuous that the organisation would seek to distance itself from its own name in this way. Where is the pride in the new name?
I didn’t notice anyone giving any money.
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June 15, 2024 12:13pm
- MCōs
  
  I don’t for a moment believe people would refuse to donate to an organization that might one day save their live because they disagree with the branding.
  Unless of course someone has put the bug in their head that there’s more to it than that
  How many people refuse to take a sick kid to A & E because it’s run by Health NZ/Te Whatu Ora?
  
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  June 15, 2024 3:43pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    But that is what happens when you start a culture war. People fight back!
    
    Māori have nothing to do with the origins of St John’s. Hote Hone is an ethnostate coining.
    
    Te Reo, empowering the trans indoctrination of school children, the push for separate Māori systems paid for by NZers and staff with nepotistic selections, influencing the media, frothing the mob to bash old ladies, using ethnostate rules to disadvantage good, hard working kids that aren’t Māori….
    
    The list goes on and on, yet it is the left that calls out the right for bringing American style culture wars to NZ. Get stuffed lefties. We have a beautiful culture and we will fight you tooth and nail to keep it!
    
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    June 15, 2024 4:59pm
  - Damocles11
    
    If there hasn’t been any backlash, why are they distancing themselves from their name ‘Hato Hone St John’? This was the thrust of my comment. You can choose to believe whatever you like, I saw it with my own eyes.
    
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    June 15, 2024 5:06pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwxE3RjoDFk

‘It’s fake’: Americans ‘not buying’ Hunter Biden’s conviction.
Geopolitics Expert Roger Gewolb says many Americans are “not buying” Hunter Biden’s gun conviction.
“What this case … does is it cleverly deflects the attention for all the serious things he’s done wrong that he should be prosecuted for,” Mr Gewolb told Sky News Digital Presenter Gabriella Power.
“Those Americans who … woke up and got out of bed this morning – they’re not buying it.”
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June 15, 2024 12:16pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Z-nS7mtRQ
The State of Queensland | Pauline Hanson’s Please Explain.
Everything was cheaper in QLD from petrol to food to fines. Then a succession of awful Premiers and state governments started eroding the wonderful lifestyle of QLD and replaced it with overburdening regulations, new fees and charges, escalating property prices and mismanagement. [Albo isn’t doing Queensland any good.]
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June 15, 2024 12:16pm
- MCōs
  
  Is Hanson taking credit for Queensland winning the Origin game the other day?
  
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  June 15, 2024 3:46pm
  - sungsamning
    
    Not that I’m aware of. Not that I watch sport anyhow.
    
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    June 15, 2024 6:24pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Irwin is suing Pauline!!!
  
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  June 15, 2024 5:07pm
I remember when

FDA asks COVID vaccine makers to target KP.2 strain, if feasible, for next shot: Reuters.

If feasible…….
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June 15, 2024 12:31pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If feasible – means Fauci will be right on to it!
  He should be in jail.
  
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  June 15, 2024 3:51pm
Damocles11

Braunias is still writing for the marxist Herald, and it’s still ‘Premium’ content. His latest piece is entitled ‘On couples in restaurants’. Premium my ass. Imagine paying for that tripe. 😂
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June 15, 2024 1:12pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Will this work?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/545491349667859/permalink/1496276237922694/

Yes!
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June 15, 2024 1:49pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This is what the stupid Joe Biden is doing to America.
It needs to be stopped. Man Trump has a job ahead of him.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/trump-accuses-biden-of-providing-material-support-for-terrorism-after-arrest-of-migrants-over-isis-fears/ar-BB1og3b1?
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June 15, 2024 1:57pm
- Inandout
  
  SO, it is plain to most people that Biden is merely a front and that others are ‘guiding’ him. The poor bastard has completely lost it.
  
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  June 15, 2024 2:12pm
  - kevn
    
    InOut… Looking forward to the debate between Trump and biden?
    
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    June 15, 2024 2:38pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      We know who won’t be drugged up to the eyeballs.
      
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      June 15, 2024 3:52pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If Big Mike runs, Barrak will get a 4th term.
    
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    June 16, 2024 8:44am
Paulus

Now New Zealand/Aotearoa is in trouble Michael Hill Jewellers in Whakatane is closing down thanks to so many ram raids, so the scum will have to find other shops there.
Am sure the Police know exactly who they are too !
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June 15, 2024 2:23pm
- Jack5
  
  Anyone-else recall the days of Asian jewellery shops each with a retired Sikh sitting outside nursing a shotgun?
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:52pm
kevn

Paulus… As I understand it, the last lot of thieves were all caught shortly after the Michael Hill store ram raid in Whakatane.
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June 15, 2024 2:37pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Does that suggest the store is less profitable without the insurance claims?
  
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  June 15, 2024 5:12pm
Swifty

Lengthy interview with New Zealander, Ken Orman, Lancaster pilot.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vLedBpQHcso
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June 15, 2024 3:38pm
greybeard

This morning I posted a comment on a Stuff article about the T20 cricket.
This afternoon I opened that article again and there were no comments to be seen, and no option to post comments.
Am I going nuts or has anyone else had that experience?
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June 15, 2024 3:42pm
Inandout

Remember this appalling misdirecting of taxpayer money?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/446977/is-labour-funding-the-mongrel-mob-what-you-need-to-know
Some say there was an ulterior motive. All I know is the average cop was incensed at this disgusting move by Ardern.
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June 15, 2024 4:03pm
greybeard

Congratulations to the New Zealand Cricket Team for such a convincing victory over the powerful Ugandan side: using the two previous games against Afghanistan and the West Indies as warm-ups to consolidate the team tactics was a masterstroke.
I fully expect that the 2025 King’s Birthday Honours List will contain several deserving names from this extraordinary group of players.
Well done ! Every New Zealander is thinking of you !
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June 15, 2024 4:23pm
- MCōs
  
  True friends stab you in the front.
  
  Oscar Wilde
  
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  June 15, 2024 4:35pm
MCōs

An article from Spinoff that caught my eye
Compulsory reading for a laugh or if you prefer to be outraged
https://thespinoff.co.nz/pop-culture/12-06-2024/rnz-played-motherfucker-and-bussy-on-air-yesterday-what-the-fuck-is-going-on?utm_source=spinoff-share-button&utm_medium=spinoff-web-mobile
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June 15, 2024 4:30pm
kevn

mcos.. Probably just a playlist programmer having the last laugh before ‘they’ leave the job.
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June 15, 2024 4:35pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

This is the first post since Thurs evening.

Unfortunately, Our Prime Minister Is An Activist (Part 8)
How National has broken the Coalition.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/unfortunately-our-prime-minister-is-an-activist-part-8/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy9pRoWfIhE
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June 15, 2024 4:57pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The Mods will not like me reposting this on Monday.
  I don’t care. Julian Batchelor and ‘Stop Co-Governance” should not be silenced.
  Might have a chat with DPF about this.
  
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  June 15, 2024 5:46pm
Pineapple Lumps

Sorry Steve accidental downtick.

Good thoughts from Julian today – leaders have hard jobs, email them and encourage them as they roll back the ethnostate.

While I’d prefer Luxon to have more obvious backbone, he has allowed Simeon Brown to roll back the local government Māori ward legislation.

This government is cleaning up some of the mess they were left with. Let’s hope they stay strong and keep on the right path.
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June 15, 2024 5:06pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I got fat fingers too!
  
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  June 15, 2024 5:46pm
John Loveridge

[Maybe so, but the court has ordered name suppression, so you don’t get to break that here thanks. mod.]
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June 15, 2024 8:03pm
- John Loveridge
  
  [You don’t get it do you? By associating this person with previous news, you are in fact identifying them, which is against the law. So don’t repeat it on this site please. You can’t even HINT at the identification. The Press reports the news as “A (22 yo) man has been charged with murdering baby Mustafa.” That is all that is permitted. mod.]
  
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  June 15, 2024 9:00pm
Muttonbird

White woman Monica Reid has been missing from a nice Te Atatu home for about 24 hours and her professional headshot has been distributed all over the media in quick time.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350259720/family-not-coping-auckland-woman-goes-missing

In New Zealand it’s very different when a brown person goes missing.

Just saying.
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June 15, 2024 9:01pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  How do you know what her ethnicity is? The media seem to have cut out descriptions of ethnicity for about the past 6 years. Don’t tell me it is an assumption from looking at her photo!
  
  Any evidence of the bias in missing person reports for different ethnicities?
  
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  June 16, 2024 12:20am
Benedict Yu

Hopefully, this woman just needed some time out, and has not been the victim of foul play. 🙁

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350259720/family-not-coping-auckland-woman-goes-missing
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June 15, 2024 9:16pm

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