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June 13, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 13 June 2024

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General Debate

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plc

Although they usually happily repub any NZ content from the Telegraph, I bet we won’t see Stuff and NZ Herald jump on this….

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/12/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-blackout-keir-starmer-learn/
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June 13, 2024 8:02am
- plc
  
  Effectively says that her “Captains Call” was ill-advised (if advised at all) and ill-considered.
  
  Warns UK risks similar bad outcome if Labour rule out North Sea oil/gas development.
  
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  June 13, 2024 9:51am
- kevn
  
  plc… Ban. Her. Forever.
  
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  June 13, 2024 10:25am
- Philview
  
  New Zealand as we know has a media problem which is creating dangers for the future of the country. Last night TVNZ News had Twyford on explaining that the new Government has destroyed the economy and hence people are fleeing to Australia.
  
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  June 13, 2024 11:04am
  - PurplePen
    
    What? Destroyed the economy in just over 5 months? Yeah right .. another Tui billboard from labour.
    
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    June 13, 2024 1:41pm
  - Damocles11
    
    Labour think ‘the economy’ = government spending.
    
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    June 13, 2024 4:04pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    PhilV: “TVNZ News had Twyford on explaining that the new Government has destroyed the economy and hence people are fleeing to Australia.”
    
    You’d have to be either a complete idiot or a complete liar to come out with something like that. I take it the filthy media didn’t make any credible attempt to challenge that either?
    
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    June 13, 2024 6:19pm
    - John Loveridge
      
      You could be both. Like Twyford.
      
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      June 13, 2024 7:33pm
- plc
  
  NZH has a version on the story but crucially sans the headline pointing out Ardern’s stupidity
  
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  June 13, 2024 1:40pm
slightlyrighty

We certainly aree seeing a lot of activation in the political left. There seems to be a new protest every week, although I think if you spoke to these poeple one on one, they might actually struggle to articulate what the hell they are protesting about.

The fact of the matter is, protests such as those carried out by Climate Activists, and Te Pati Maori actually does nothing for their cause, and simply stifles debate.

But then, perhaps that is the point.

Protest for these people is not a means to an end. It is the end goal. To disrupt rather than debate.

As Winston rightly asked “What has Te Pati Maori done for Maori.

One could also ask, what have the Greens done for the environment?

So whenever you see these placard waving pillocks, just remember, they have lost the debate, because they can’t or won’t discuss the issues.
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June 13, 2024 8:05am
- Handyman
  
  The signs in the recent marches all read the same things…
  
  “I have a right to be angry – someone disagrees with me”.
  “I am a morally superior person so anyone who disagrees with me must be a bad person”
  “I want stuff so why can’t I have it. You are being mean daddy and I hate you”
  “It is undemocratic if I don’t get what I want”
  “Hundreds of people are here so we represent the majority of the country”
  “We need a people’s parliament, not one full of politicians”
  
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  June 13, 2024 9:58am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Palestinian flags, Rangatira flags and Te Treaty signs, many by you white peoples. Ask a kid who the store are at school who march, they say the same people you see marching over everything, and usually their biggest gripe is the LBGTQ scream fest.
    
    When you see the very same issues and little kids smiling holding placards they don’t know what they mean, then you know it’s went a mob
    
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    June 13, 2024 11:17am
    - zulumonster
      
      Genuine question G … do you ever proof read your posts in the 5 minutes you have after posting and before they are submitted?
      I suspect you may have some decent opinions but it is difficult to tell with all the mistakes …
      
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      June 13, 2024 12:59pm
      - PurplePen
        
        My uptick was really that I find it humourous.
        
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        June 13, 2024 1:43pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        My theory is G feverishly types these messages on his phone while on the bog at work.
        
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        June 13, 2024 6:04pm
- Damocles11
  
  Well when you see what New Zealand has signed up for on the emissions front by 2030, you’ll see the activists have won. No, they can’t and won’t win a war on ‘climate change’. Their goal is to harangue and brow beat us and get us to abandon ‘capitalism’ and destroy our economy and collapse our living standards. They have academia, the media, the public service, and the major political parties on their side to all intents & purposes, so this is why the likes of Chloe are so vocal and emboldened. And while countries like New Zealand are under attack from without and within, China has a carve-out to keep *increasing* its emissions until 2030. China is on track to burn 4 Billion tonnes of coal this year. The Greenies and the ‘global boiling’ chap at the UN should be hysterical with fear and anger over this, instead it is countries like New Zealand that must be harangued and made to capitulate to climate derangement.
  The same with the vocal and emboldened racial separatists in TPM; they are simply leveraging off of the momentum that has been created by the media, academia, the judiciary, the public service, woke corporates, and the major political parties. The sight of Winnie thundering against them in Parliament may be entertaining, but creeping Maorification and the erosion of democracy continues apace away from the theatrics.
  
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  June 13, 2024 1:28pm
  - PurplePen
    
    I’m hoping with this govt and in particular the two minor parties the creeping is slowly being brought to a halt and even reversed. Time will tell.
    
    On the climate issue, we’re not really rich enough to take the level of action that the Groan Party, academics et al want us to take. Alright for them as they’re all on comfortable stipends. Not that I think we need to do anything anyway, only sufficient as required to make us competitive in trade.
    
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    June 13, 2024 1:48pm
Chuck Bird

Farmers should be treated as treasures, not as tyrants – Barry Soper

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/farmers-should-be-treated-as-treasures-not-as-tyrants-barry-soper/JXSHODJOWZCXVMEPYOELBBG5OY/
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June 13, 2024 8:08am
- Benedict Yu
  
  If you are going to post articles behind a pay wall, you are permitted to provide a short summary of the article. Otherwise it is pointless.
  
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  June 13, 2024 8:16am
  - Matt Long
    
    No paywall at present.
    
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    June 13, 2024 10:50am
- Gravelroad
  
  Paywalled.
  But agree re farmers.
  Disclosure – am biased!
  
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  June 13, 2024 8:18am
- Michael Sommerville
  
  I tried to find the article without using the link provided in your comment. I am a subscriber. I couldn’t find it and had to do a search for “barry soper” before it was displayed.
  
  What is the Herald playing at?
  
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  June 13, 2024 8:20am
  - Paulus
    
    You mean the Herald and its collapsing baby the BOP Times (Offices totally closed) have no idea what they are playing at.
    Pathetic
    
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    June 13, 2024 1:05pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Not paywalled anymore. Not for me anyway.
  
  If you had breakfast today, thank a farmer and a truckie.
  
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  June 13, 2024 8:57am
  - MCōs
    
    And the road builders and the plethora of other people who get the produce from the farm gate to the dining room table
    
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    June 13, 2024 9:08am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      What is the matter with you. The Truckies are like the first responders ffs.
      
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      June 13, 2024 2:50pm
  - pdm
    
    I had pears so I thanked an Orchardist.
    
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    June 13, 2024 9:34am
    - pdm
      
      And Watties.
      
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      June 13, 2024 9:50am
    - MCōs
      
      We had bananas from our own garden, kiwi fruit from Bay of Plenty and grapes from California on Weetbix from Seventh Day Adventists
      
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      June 13, 2024 10:45am
    - PurplePen
      
      Is no-one thanking God for breakfast. Was a time when we said grace before every meal. Not now as climate change and a host of other over-dramatised issues are all the new religion for the masses, at least the woke I suppose.
      
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      June 13, 2024 1:52pm
  - Ghost
    
    I thanked the little slave child for making my technology
    
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    June 13, 2024 10:58am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Meme pic re just that:
      
      https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalMeme/comments/rl3k47/were_mining_the_cobalt_for_your_batteries_as_fast/#lightbox
      
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      June 13, 2024 6:24pm
      - PurplePen
        
        Greta most likely can’t even drive. Bit rich insisting we should all drive EVs. God she’s a plonker.
        
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        June 13, 2024 6:59pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I see Greta as essentially another brainwashed child going off. She is the product of people who should know better.
        
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        June 13, 2024 7:10pm
imalwaysright

I see the cops have set up checkpoints around Marokopa to find Tom.

What a cunning plan!
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June 13, 2024 8:10am
- kowtow
  
  And the copper chopper .
  
  Bigly publicity stunt , expensive too.
  
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  June 13, 2024 11:14am
- Damocles11
  
  Apparently Tom and his kids were having a soak at Okoroire Hot Springs, about 2 hours from Marakopa; a witness there was fairly certain it was them. I’ve heard “he’s being hidden” and “he’s hiding way up in the bush”. Well the guy moves around the Waikato and King Country with impunity, sometimes in allegedly stolen vehicles, and our Keystone Kops police force are always about 10 steps behind. He was reportedly identified buying items at Bunnings stores in Hamilton. He allegedly robbed a bank in Te Kuiti. He allegedly tried to smash into a store in Piopio. This has been going on for years now, a totally absurd situation.
  
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  June 13, 2024 2:42pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    He’s probably living in South Auckland. Cops will never think of looking for him there.
    
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    June 13, 2024 8:57pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  A bit like the authorities in Hunt for the Wilderpeople.
  
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  June 13, 2024 6:11pm
Anthony Melchett

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/waikato-woman-sent-injured-child-overseas-to-avoid-prosecution/

Just another weak judge. Yet another case of a kid being bashed, this time with a broom and then the kid was sent back overseas to prevent any investigation.

So we sentence 12 months supervision and drop the assault charge because she is really a good person and wants to be a doctor. Seems like a good fit.

What a load of shit. Deport her and her 8 kids.
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June 13, 2024 8:14am
- sirknz
  
  Can’t speak enough English to understand the law, wants to become a doctor…
  
  Smells like nitrogenous, male bovine waste material to me.
  
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  June 13, 2024 10:13am
Anthony Melchett

Good to see in the latest immigration stats that 56,500 of nzs best left the country in the year to April. Don’t worry though because they have been replaced by 48,000 Indians, 30,300 Philippinos and 25,700 Chinese.

A recipe for disaster in so many ways.
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June 13, 2024 8:16am
- Ian
  
  Ooops – thought you said Italians, not Indians – glasses. Wouldn’t mind that….
  
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  June 13, 2024 10:47am
- MCōs
  
  Not necessarily NZ’s best
  Two of them were my wife’s niece who was a chef on little more than minimum wage and her Uber driver husband
  She picked up a job straightaway in Melbourne with the same upmarket hotel chain doing the same work at greatly increased wages
  
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  June 13, 2024 10:54am
  - Damocles11
    
    They were working, so yes – there were part of our best.
    
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    June 13, 2024 1:30pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    “doing the same work at greatly increased wages”
    
    Don’t forget 11% “Super” (aka Kiwsaver equivalent) on top. Oh and 18,000 tax free threshhold. And other goodies which I’m not going to advertise here.
    
    If the current coalition don’t fix housing and significantly grow the economy, it will be back to another term at least of the haters, morons and wreckers to send NZ into the poo even further.
    
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    June 13, 2024 6:16pm
- PurplePen
  
  at least the Indians will all get jobs and pay taxes rather than sit on a benefit .. at least that’s according to an Indian friend.
  
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  June 13, 2024 1:53pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Except for all the money they send back “home”. That’s money not being spent in the local economy and generating more jobs here. Remittances are just one hidden disastrous cost of mass migration.
    
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    June 13, 2024 3:06pm
- Sacha
  
  A couple of weeks ago I stopped to fill up with diesel, and the pump wouldn’t release, so I went in to get some help. Out came an Indian man complete with accent, and while he supervised the pump we got chatting.
  He had been sent to Dubai to work when he left school. Lasted 8 years, saved his money and then went home to Gujerat, married the girl his family recommended for him, and they arrived in New Zealand 4 months ago.
  He has bought a service station. His wife is helping in the shop. (I asked )
  So far he is very pleased with his New Zealand experience, and they are planning to have children quite soon.
  Not a bad sort of immigrant, I think.
  
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  June 13, 2024 2:11pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Yes, immigrants love our welfare state for their kids. Just turn up and start breeding. Because we don’t have enough people here. The roads are underused, the hospital wards are empty, schools are closing, housing stock left to the elements to rot. It’s tragic.
    
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    June 13, 2024 3:12pm
imalwaysright

Listening to Robert Patman talking to Sean Plunket.

Apparently 15,000 children have been killed in Palestine.

Is that enough?
Is that not enough?
Is that too many?
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June 13, 2024 8:17am
- RoboRob
  
  Is that true?
  Where do the numbers come from?
  Does the number of kids count 14-18yr olds?
  
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  June 13, 2024 9:47am
  - john1234
    
    All such numbers are courtesy of Hamas who run Gaza. This is the same Hamas who rape and murder civilian women and children and embed their fighters among their own civilians no matter if it is a school, ambulance or hospital.
    Why would any thinking person believe a single word these raping, murdering animals say?
    
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    June 13, 2024 10:03am
    - Matt Long
      
      How do Islamists feel about the death of their children?
      This one whose child was treated in an Israeli hospital, was reported as saying it didn’t matter as her child would return as suicide murderer, she says death doesn’t matter to her people.
      https://x.com/matt92q/status/1800553948178526699
      Westerners need to learn about cultural values, monocultural myopia is the word my lecturers called it.
      
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      June 13, 2024 10:55am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Poor brainwashed woman – indoctrinated. So sad, and that is why all the handwringing by Hamas & all those shown on TV is all bullshit – it’s purely for western consumption to make Israel murderers.
        
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        June 13, 2024 1:06pm
  - herb1
    
    Hamas apparently includes up to 20 year olds as children . Aside from the accuracy or otherwise of their figures, the age for Hamas fighters is considerably younger than 20
    
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    June 13, 2024 11:50am
- leoj
  
  …..and all due to Hamas.
  
  There was peace on Oct 6th.
  
  Who broke it?
  
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  June 13, 2024 9:57am
- sirknz
  
  They will claim 50,000 by the end of the week then walk it back to a more sensible, realistic number in about 3 months citing miscounts…
  
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  June 13, 2024 10:15am
- mandk
  
  Whatever the number, the blame lies with Hamas.
  
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  June 13, 2024 11:49am
- Warren Murray
  
  Of course it’s too many, but the number is a statistical measure of the cost of Hamas 1. Attacking Israel, 2. Using its people as human shields, 3. holding (and, apparently, losing) hostages, and 4. Frustrating attempts for a cease fire.
  
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  June 13, 2024 12:27pm
  - Paulus
    
    Hamas steal as much food by stopping the lorries with a gun, as they can and store it in warehouses, so that we hear screams of poverty, hunger and medicines, which never arrive.
    
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    June 13, 2024 1:10pm
- ISeeRed
  
  How many Jewish women raped to death and Jewish babies beheaded alive are enough for you?
  
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  June 13, 2024 3:13pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Milky? Any thoughts?
    
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    June 13, 2024 6:27pm
- Inandout
  
  ima, the carnage in Africa doesn’t make our headlines like Gaza.
  https://africacenter.org/spotlight/fatalities-from-militant-islamist-violence-in-africa-surge-by-nearly-50-percent/
  
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  June 14, 2024 10:13am
- G152
  
  Since hamas is hiding behind them what do you expect?
  
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  June 23, 2024 11:57am
cmm

Farmers suck massive amounts of CO2 out of the atmosphere every day and convert it into food.
They’re doing more for the “carbon crisis” than those plonker greenies flying around the world to international ego-rubbing events.
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June 13, 2024 8:17am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The problem is the methane and nitrous oxide.
  
  My science expertise is not sufficient to competently debate the emissions methodology for land use change. However the reality is that New Zealand has signed up to a commitment to reduce all emissions by 30 percent by 2030. This includes agricultural emissions, as calculated by a methodology that New Zealand helped developed.
  
  New Zealand cannot meet those commitments without spending at least $20 billion. My repeatedly expressed concern is that public understanding of what we have got ourselves into is close to zero.
  
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  June 13, 2024 8:51am
  - cmm
    
    Certainly, a small % of the CO2 absorbed from the atmosphere is then re-emitted as methane.
    
    But:
    1) Is it enough to make a difference (ie. compared to the amount of CO2 absorbed).
    2) It is significant compared to the methane from other sources (swamps, leaf litter rotting in rain forests, the compost heap in every Greenie’s back garden, the stomach of every living animal – wild or not).
    
    Or is it a matter of:
    * methane from the microbes in a wildebeest’s belly = good.
    * methane from the same microbes in a cow’s belly = bad.
    
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    June 13, 2024 8:58am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I’ll be honest. I don’t know the answers to your questions. All I know is that the country has agreed to a methodology that determines that agriculture emissions are half of our total emissions.
      
      What I do understand is UN processes. Even if you are correct re the science, it would take a minimum of five years to convince all member countries of the UN to agree to any changes.
      
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      June 13, 2024 9:37am
      - cmm
        
        Basically it is “bugger the science here’s what some activists want”.
        
        We should not be doing dumb stuff just because some UN people want to spend the next 20 years flying to conferences to discuss the matter.
        
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        June 13, 2024 10:55am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    BYu “My repeatedly expressed concern is that public understanding of what we have got ourselves into is close to zero” If that is the case,and I would agree it is, than I would argue that “ we “ didn’t get ourselves into it.
    
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    June 13, 2024 9:01am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      James Shaw got us into it.
      
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      June 13, 2024 9:39am
      - Yabster
        
        its $30 Billion isn’t it?- another Ardern legacy scam….
        
        https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/barry-brill-an-absurd-ardern-ambition
        
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        June 13, 2024 10:24am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Methane and nitrous oxide, yet the Green flakes keep raving about CO2. WTF is the matter with them?
    
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    June 13, 2024 9:01am
    - cmm
      
      It is just muddying of the water.
      
      When CO2 itself is shown to be not much of a problem, then they start looking at other gases and giving them an “equivalent CO2” score.
      
      Methane scores high on that. Some of the score is solidly science based and some is pretty hand-wavey/opion stuff.
      
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      June 13, 2024 9:46am
      - kowtow
        
        Talking of water .
        
        Dihydrogen oxide is the biggest /mostest green house gas.
        
        We really need a net zero for that , bigly.
        
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        June 13, 2024 11:13am
      - rangitoto
        
        Hydroxylic acid is just as bad and remember our rivers are full of the stuff.
        
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        June 13, 2024 2:06pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        kowtow, that would be Dihydrogen Monoxide.
        Ask Sue Kedgley. Hook, line, sinker, and most of the arm. Stupid woman!
        
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        June 13, 2024 2:53pm
    - mandk
      
      They are simpletons.
      
      Go to a Greens rally on climate change and you will see signs saying “CO2 kills”.
      
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      June 13, 2024 11:52am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Go ask Greta, she can see the stuff.
        
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        June 13, 2024 2:54pm
  - RoboRob
    
    We should NEVER have signed. My hope is that once the major players start to pull out as they realise they too cant meet the targets, the whole thing colapses. It appears Australia is moving to pull out sooner rather then later.
    
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    June 13, 2024 9:04am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Australia is not pulling out, not unless they change their government. Even then they may not.
      If Trump wins, the US will pull out, but that won’t mean a cascade of other countries following suit. It didn’t between 2016 and 2020. Given that Trump will have only 4 years, other states will just wait him out.
      
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      June 13, 2024 9:53am
      - leoj
        
        Are you assuming that Trump will be followed by a scum Democrat president?
        
        Trump’s VP won’t suddenly rejoin.
        
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        June 13, 2024 10:00am
      - Matt Long
        
        The communists may find they don’t get it all their own way in Europe either.
        Cost of going green sparks backlash from Europe’s voters
        
        [Mod – cleaned up link]
        
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        June 13, 2024 10:58am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Matt,
        By your definition I guess the National Party are communists as well. After all they voted for the Climate Change legislation proposed by James Shaw.
        By and large climate change policies have to be sufficiently bipartisan to survive changes of government. Which is true of any policies that are seen as long term, given that in democracies there are governments of many different hues in the course of a couple of decades.
        
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        June 13, 2024 11:22am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Canada cannot meet its Paris Accord targets. Neither can Australia or Japan without spending tens of billions on emissions units under the so called “flexibility mechanisms”. The UK is also doubtful.
        
        https://unfccc.int/news/a-guide-to-un-market-based-mechanisms
        
        IMO neither can New Zealand. The Government has excluded agriculture from mitigation action while leaving agriculture emissions in the obligated emissions reductions.
        
        Sorry I don’t believe for a moment that New Zealand, and the countries that I have just listed will meet their obligations from domestic action. Japan will spend what it takes. Maybe the UK will also, Canada will not. Australia will not. And I think that New Zealand will fold once it sees the dominoes falling.
        
        My views here are now well known. I consider climate change to be a problem of moderate magnitude. The Zero carbon Act is a folly and it will not last the test of time.
        
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        June 13, 2024 11:33am
      - Matt Long
        
        Hi Wayne, National has moved heavily to the left in recent years, in a similar way to the Conservatives in the UK, much of the legislation passed by Key’s government will have detrimental effects on the economy, race relations, education and ability of Kiwi’s to enjoy the standards of living and freedom we grew up with.
        National may not be communist, however the drift toward centralisation of power, and removal of personal freedom, increase in poverty per person under National, much worse under Labour, is well in line with what communists would want to achieve.
        
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        June 13, 2024 1:00pm
  - Happy1
    
    Hi BY. What would happen if the NZ government simply pulled agriculture out of the agreement? As I understand it we are the only country that includes agriculture. When we signed up we were expecting that a easy way would be found to prevent methane production in cattle. Hasn’t happened so join the rest of the world in excluding agriculture. Surely it’s global emissions rather than NZs emissions that count. Any reduction in dairy here with simply be replaced by increased dairy production elsewhere, almost certainly resulting in more methane.
    
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    June 13, 2024 9:08am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “As I understand it we are the only country that includes agriculture.”
      
      Not correct. The emissions inventories of all countries include agriculture emissions. The problem for New Zealand is that those emissions are very significant because we have high renewables and a small heavy industry sector.
      
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      June 13, 2024 9:42am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        On this….
        
        “a reduction in dairy here with simply be replaced by increased dairy production elsewhere, almost certainly resulting in more methane.”
        
        About 5 years ago, I made this exact point to an advisor to James Shaw. The response. “No other countries would not increase dairy production because like New Zealand they also care about climate change”. ☹️😳🤡
        
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        June 13, 2024 9:48am
      - Matt Long
        
        There’s some truth to that assertion BY, dairy in Australia is in serious decline, and also most western countries.
        However there’s plenty of states that don’t let their policy be set by ignorant virtue signallers.
        
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        June 13, 2024 11:02am
      - Jack5
        
        New Zealand is the sixth biggest dairy producer in the world, or the seventh if you classify the EU as one producer.
        
        China produces about twice as much milk as NZ, and India almost five times as much.
        
        Are they exempt from cow gas penalties?
        
        https://www.statista.com/statistics/268191/cow-milk-production-worldwide-top-producers/
        
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        June 13, 2024 11:36am
      - slijmbal
        
        @Benedict & Matt – dairy production is increasing year on year worldwide – so nonsense on the it is decreasing idea. India is now world’s largest dairy producer.
        
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        June 13, 2024 12:45pm
  - Spam
    
    Such blunt emissions reduction targets have always been problematic. Even going back as far as Kyoto, the targets were politically motivated by carefully setting the base year against which emissions were measured, so that the likes of England could claim “emissions reductions” made prior (they shut down coal fired power plants for other reasons before the protocol, and then claimed credit).
    
    And so it is with Paris. It is explicitly supposed to exclude anything that would impact on food production, but here we are. When there are divergent (or even mutually-exclusive) goals, when one is promoted over the other, it is often political.
    
    We know that world trade is problematic, with protectionism, tariffs, dumping and trade wars. Other countries will be gleefully rubbing their hands should New Zealand cripple their farming to meet such arbitrary targets, and it is widely understood that New Zealand reducing farming emissions through production cuts will result in higher emissions elsewhere. It is madness.
    
    The “problem” that New Zealand had is that when all these agreements were being signed, we already had something like 80% renewable electricity: we simply don’t have the scope to reduce (unlike others who simply did what they were always going to do, and then claimed the credit for it).
    
    Yes, NZ may have helped develop the methodology, and that’s a useful line of attack, but it doesn’t mean that the framework isn’t flawed. There are numerous problems – the short-lived nature of methane isn’t correctly accounted for, sequestration into grasses and non-commercial forestry aren’t counted, and even the carbon produced into milk, butter and meat that is exported outside NZ (i.e. emitted elsewhere) isn’t allowed as an offset (as it is for oil and coal).
    
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    June 13, 2024 9:10am
  - Taieri
    
    This includes agricultural emissions, as calculated by a methodology that New Zealand helped developed.
    ————–
    
    Does this methodology allow for inclusion of CO2 absorbed by pastures?
    Or does the grass grow in NZ without photosynthesis these days?
    
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    June 13, 2024 10:18am
    - Damocles11
      
      ‘NZ helped develop the methodology.’
      New Zealanders like James Shaw and Rod Carr? There are different types of New Zealanders, some who work in our national interest & some who don’t.
      
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      June 13, 2024 1:33pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    “My repeatedly expressed concern is that public understanding of what we have got ourselves into is close to zero.”
    
    Which goes to the bigger point that *all* international agreements and commitments we enter into effectively tie our hands as a sovereign nation, which gives the lie to what the disingenuous useful idiots and just plain old knuckleheads say about us still having the independence to make our own laws.
    
    We are bound almost as effectively by external agreements as we are by our own parliament. If NZ is to have what’s often lauded as an “independent” foreign policy then we should also have an independent economic and environmental policy.
    
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    June 13, 2024 10:30am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Methane and nitrous oxide are not worth worrying about. Neither is Co2. Several serious atmospheric physicists (who are not grant/career grifting narrative pushers) have done the maths on this.
    
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    June 13, 2024 6:30pm
- PurplePen
  
  It turns out, grazing cows sequester massive amounts of carbon …
  
  https://spectator.org/more-cows-needed-to-reverse-climate-change-experts-say/
  
  Not quite sure from the article whether methane is addressed.
  
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  June 13, 2024 10:53am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

FBI made massive arrest. Secret Chinese Police Stations in US.
Are there any in NZ?
Chinese Premier Li Qiang to visit New Zealand this week. A good question to ask him.

https://rightwingnewshour.com/democrat-ally-arrested-working-for-the-chinese/?
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June 13, 2024 8:22am
- imalwaysright
  
  Yip
  
  https://newsroom.co.nz/2022/12/17/chinese-police-centre-in-nz-tied-to-businessman/
  
  7 1
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  June 13, 2024 8:27am
- Grunter
  
  A bunch of crooks caught a bunch of crooks
  
  10 1
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  June 13, 2024 9:31am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Bang on.
    
    6 1
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    June 13, 2024 9:39am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

“The illusion of democracy in America is finally being put out of its misery by New York City Democrats. Politicians in the city have decided that noncitizens will finally be allowed to vote openly in elections, adding hundreds of thousands of illegal votes for local Democrats overnight letting the party secure its hold in the city permanently. NYC may be just the first city to enact this official vote rigging policy, meaning that U.S. citizenship is about to become officially meaningless.”

It does not yet apply to State or National Elections. How long until it does?
Trump will have to reverse this, but can he?

https://rightwingnewshour.com/dems-just-rammed-through-some-really-messed-up-stuff-to-secure-foothold-forever/?
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June 13, 2024 8:29am
- RoboRob
  
  The concept of allowing non citizens to vote in elections just breaks my mind. I know the (stupid) arguement is that they should have a say too as they are there. The problem with this arguement is that they shouldn’t be there.
  
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  June 13, 2024 9:06am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Joe wants as many in as possible. That’s why he does nothing about the wall, no prosecutions, gives them accommodation and welfare.
    
    5 3
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    June 13, 2024 9:43am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Oh, Joe does not give a shit about how many families, even good families are totally destroyed by drugs.
      
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      June 13, 2024 2:56pm
  - Paulus
    
    What about the, some believe, 16,000 illegal immigrants in Auckland alone in New Zealand re voting ?
    Did they to do the Censuses ?
    
    3 0
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    June 13, 2024 1:16pm
- MCōs
  
  Non citizens can vote in NZ
  Conditions apply
  Conditions apply for citizens to vote too. Mr Theil can’t vote for example
  What have you got to say about that?
  
  3 18
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  June 13, 2024 9:16am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Steve is taking about illegal immigrants who dont have Residency and shouldn’t be in the Country.
    The problem of illegal immigrants being issued ID like a Drivers License and loose Voting qualification requirements in some US States has been discussed before
    People with Residency can vote in NZ and Theil probably doesnt spend enough time here
    Does that help you?
    
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    June 13, 2024 9:26am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Just ignore him. He gives Kamala Harris type comments.
      “You have not been to the Border Wall”
      “I haven’t been to Europe either.”
      See what I mean?
      
      13 4
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      June 13, 2024 9:47am
      - MCōs
        
        The “rightwingnewshour” article references another article by Time which says
        “It covers legal permanent residents who have lived in the city for at least 30 consecutive days and are green card holders or are legally authorized to work in the U.S. They will not be permitted to vote in state and federal elections.”
        
        Legal permanent residents
        
        Same as here except here they have to have lived here for 12mths
        
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        June 13, 2024 10:17am
David George

“Never Again” is now “Not Again?”
Jordan Peterson, a tweet for our times.

“I see all this with great sorrow. We’re seeing the rise of the dread spirit of Kristallnacht.

How did this happen? Everyone asked, tearing out their hair, after WWII

Well folks it’s happening again and one way or another you’re involved just as all German citizens were in the 1930’s. The only question is

What role will you play this time?”

https://x.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1800922927778394195
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June 13, 2024 8:32am
- kowtow
  
  There’s all sorts of very concerning behaviour , symbols and genocidal chants going on at these anti Israel protests across the west .
  
  Te legacy media paahti are “terror washing” this but serving us up their own versions in highly curated presentations .
  
  Today’s front page of the Herald yet another example , as is $1uffed anti IDF , anti Coalition Rimpac exercise story ,along with their go to expert Patman .
  
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  June 13, 2024 8:55am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Very true.
  
  Last March we saw New Zealand politicians from the Maori Party and the Green Party applauding an attack on a women’s rights campaigner in Albert Park. This attack could have easily resulted in her death.
  
  For those with this mentality, it is not much of a leap to applauding attacks on Jews because you consider that they are “committing genocide” against the residents of Gaza.
  
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  June 13, 2024 8:58am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    When is the IPCA report about Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull attack complaints due out. Must be soon.
    
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    June 13, 2024 9:14am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I am thinking it has been buried.
      
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      June 13, 2024 9:51am
    - Notsofast
      
      The most interesting question is Richard/Rhona Stace.
      Was he in charge?
      It is impossible for autogynephiles to be trusted.
      Look at Robin Moira White, UK lawyer as one of many bad actors in the news lately.
      
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      June 13, 2024 1:10pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

MTG still has Fauci in the crosshairs.
Jail him.
https://freedomeagledaily.com/theteapartydaily/mtg-says-fauci-should-be-jailed-for-crimes-against-humanity/?
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June 13, 2024 8:32am
- imalwaysright
  
  He should have been jailed for his role in the Aids scare.
  He is a terrorist scumbag.
  
  10 1
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  June 13, 2024 8:35am
  - MCōs
    
    Why do you say that?
    I’ve heard there was some criticism of his handling of the AIDS crisis so I googled the subject
    Plenty of articles on both sides
    Here’s one
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/24/anthony-fauci-interview-hiv-aids-covid-19
    
    3 8
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    June 13, 2024 11:17am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Googled- snigger
      That will produce a balanced list of views
      //
      
      5 3
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      June 13, 2024 3:52pm
      - MCōs
        
        Where do you suggest one should search for a balanced appraisal of the Doctor’s profession career?
        TikTok? X? Facebook?
        
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        June 13, 2024 4:23pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Google and other big tech um, entities, openly support far left objectives. It’s no secret.
        
        MCōs try metager.org for searches if you don’t want big tech filth meddling with your results.
        
        3 1
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        June 13, 2024 6:36pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Brave search also.
        
        0 1
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        June 13, 2024 7:08pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        I dont look at Twitter or Tik Tok
        I guess you are being sarcastic though
        Oscar Wilde said sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
        The product of weak minds.
        Perhaps you should look at the Senate and Congressional Hearings where Fauci had to testify under oath
        Very revealing- especially about Covid
        As NZer suggests, try a different search engine
        You might ask less questions and be more informed perhaps?
        
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        June 13, 2024 10:16pm
greybeard

https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350307157/airport-share-sell-divides-council-majority/?utm_source=stuff_article&utm_medium=referral

This backs-up my observations which I have posted previously on Kiwiblog: that the elected councillors are subject to the will of council management and senior staff.
Just to repeat myself, here is the substance of my post:

“I worked for a council for 5 years, after a lifetime of private employers.

I learned very quickly that the elected councillors had very little to do with the decision-making process: that was the job of group managers, the CEO, and selected ideologically-driven employees.

And what made it worse, some of those employees were appointed by their managers, and did not go through a competitive selection process where the position was contested by applicants. They may previously have been consultants or part-time ‘advisors’ . “
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June 13, 2024 8:32am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The more we find out about the Public Sector the more we realise how corrupt they are.
  It is incredible.
  
  15 3
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  June 13, 2024 9:19am
- Quail
  
  The CEO employs the Council staff.
  The Mayor and Councillors only employ the CEO . And some Councils do not encourage direct contact with staff.
  Councillors have to convince the Mayor and other Councillors of the correctness of their opinions before a vote will favour them.
  Councillor Powers ??? ?
  
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  June 13, 2024 9:43am
  - bennerg
    
    Quail,
    
    ” And some Councils do not encourage direct contact with staff.”
    
    Did you not see this: Jim Goes AWOL, Humphrey Is Apoplectic | Yes Minister
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW-iC1FLqFQ
    
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    June 13, 2024 9:53am
    - peterwn
      
      This is the norm for many organisations and Government agencies. Employees should not contact people or establish relationships on employer business outside their accepted ‘circles’. For Councils an ordinary Councillor has no power or authority except to contribute to and vote at council meetings. The CEO is under no obligation to allow Councillors or even the Mayor to go ‘behind the counter’.
      I was surprised to hear a few years ago that the Mayor of a UK council had a masterkey for council premises. He should not have in my opinion.
      
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      June 13, 2024 10:29am
- Taieri
  
  This backs-up my observations which I have posted previously on Kiwiblog: that the elected councillors are subject to the will of council management and senior staff.
  ————-
  
  This seems to have started since the councillors effectively became paid employees. Back in the day, when being a councillor was a part time unpaid activity, many councillors were former businessmen and such like, who were successful in their lives and wanted to give something back to the communities that made their successes possible. They were far more savvy and assertive in those days and relationships between elected members and staff were very different from what they are now. Another factor is the age and life experience; in the past it would have been very unusual to have a councillor in his/her 20’s, straight out of school or university. It is much more difficult to influence (or to bully) a man or a woman in their 40’s, who already achieved something in their lives, than someone young, inexperienced and possibly quite idealistic.
  
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  June 13, 2024 10:33am
  - Sol Invictus
    
    As someone who was a WCC councillor some decades ago I can say that your comments are certainly spot on for Wellington.
    
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    June 13, 2024 6:50pm
- Paulus
  
  Same in all Councils, nothing new for years since Helen Clark interfered – voting for Mayors and Councillors is now irrelevant.
  Tauranga will see this very soon, where biggest question is to the potential Councillors and new Mayor – what is your view re having a Referendum on the retention of Maori Wards.
  The out going Mahuta Commissioners and the Council Staff are against it, as they say because it is expensive, although a group of voters say they will pay, so it will not happen as the incoming Councillors will not have to show their open ignorance as to what probably the Voters want.
  Why vote ?
  
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  June 13, 2024 1:25pm
Simon

DEI in govt. Education outcomes are dropping yet funding increases all the time. This is DEI. Its politically run govt departments.

National party are a safe space for many around here. But DEI is well beyond National.
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June 13, 2024 8:38am
Swifty

While I fully realise Rangi McLean has no control over the wording of the piece, he comes across terribly in this article today:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/kaumatua-unhappy-manurewa-marae-is-at-the-centre-of-political-storm/BMHMV2SRBNGABGYURPKF23BNBY/

He is the Manurewa Marae chairman and doesn’t even attempt to address the substance of the credible allegations surrounding his operation – rather, just points at squirrels in the form of food packs to needy families.

The article is a total waste of readers’ time but with one possible exception. That it reveals to us all that either McLean doesn’t know what’s going on in his own marae, isn’t concerned that there have been unlawful electoral practices committed within it, or has known and this is his attempt at distraction, in the absence of any other defence – it’s all he’s got.

Either way, I am singularly unimpressed.
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June 13, 2024 8:41am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  If this kaumatua is indicative of the calibre of trustees overseeing the spending of public money then it is clear that the system needs an overhaul.
  
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  June 13, 2024 9:38am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    He’s a feature, not a bug.
    
    J Tamahere
    
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    June 13, 2024 9:09pm
cmm

Aparently a new study shows wild animals use “names” for each other.

Wow. Why do we need a new study for that? Lots of people could have told you that. It has been observed in many different animals before – including primates, whales, elephants. Even cats and dogs.

But the only twist here is that they used some sort of computer model to do the prediction. aka AI.

“Analysing only the audio data, the computer model predicted which elephant was being addressed 28 per cent of the time, likely due to the inclusion of its name. When fed meaningless data, the model only accurately labelled 8 per cent of calls.”

Hmmm a model that gets it right 28% of the time… awesome.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/african-elephants-call-each-other-by-unique-names-new-study-shows/UE5GQCXMSJAGPMBP7N47BGEXY4/
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June 13, 2024 8:47am
- imalwaysright
  
  Makes sense.
  Is an elephant going to say “hey you, third from the left, the one with the cracked tusk eating the acacia leaves!”
  Or
  “hey, Larry!”
  
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  June 13, 2024 9:09am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Why do we need a new study for that? To create a job for someone to do what they like doing – like climate change scientists.
  See that first photo of elephants? The one on the left is “George.”
  
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  June 13, 2024 9:25am
  - PurplePen
    
    I bet you the research either has a link to climate change or maoridom. That’s the way to guarantee funding.
    
    3 2
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    June 13, 2024 2:11pm
- I remember when
  
  Perhaps the problem is the elephants…
  
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  June 13, 2024 10:09am
  - cmm
    
    Ah, yes, to quote Steve Jobs: You’re not holding your elephant right.
    
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    June 13, 2024 10:29am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      The elephant in the room
      
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      June 13, 2024 9:10pm
- Deadly pony
  
  Elephants probably never forget a name
  
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  June 14, 2024 1:17am
cmm

Herald asks: What’s next for Hunter Biden after his conviction on federal gun charges?

I would think:
* drug charges
* corruption charges
* acting as a foreign agent.

But what would I know…

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/whats-next-for-hunter-biden-after-his-conviction-on-federal-gun-charges/N663JY5DPZC7DGWBSVK43ATKUQ/
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June 13, 2024 8:53am
- All_on_Red
  
  Tax Evasion and Perjury to Congress will be next
  ‘The presidential offspring faces six misdemeanor and three felony counts after allegedly skipping out on $1.4 million in federal income taxes for the years 2016 through 2019.’
  https://nypost.com/2024/05/22/us-news/hunter-biden-tax-evasion-trial-pushed-back-until-september/
  The Perjury accusation is in front of the corrupt Merrick Garland at the DOJ so he might skate on that one.
  
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  June 13, 2024 9:07am
  - Cassandra
    
    Prosecuting Trump opened Pandora’s Box. While “nobody is above the law” much of the Trump stuff is, at best, debatable; it enable Republicans to do it when it’s their turn in government. Unless Trump shoots someone on the Mar El Lago lawn best to ignore his behaviour. Let voters sort it out.
    
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    June 13, 2024 9:35am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      It’s all about how people view it after the corrupt media have reported.
      Bit like Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion is understood different ways.
      
      6 1
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      June 13, 2024 9:54am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Tax Evasion
    Interesting. I’d thought those had expired through the statutory limits as the prosecutor, Weiss, slow-walked the whole process? Hell, if was not for an alert judge last year he’d have got away with that plea bargain sweetheart deal across all charges. Didn’t take many questions from her to blow the whole thing up, to the obvious annoyance of Hunter’s defence lawyers and the red face of Weiss and company.
    
    So are these tax evasion charges related to the IRS whistleblower testimony? Because those were another reason that forced Weiss’s hand.
    
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    June 13, 2024 1:39pm
- RoboRob
  
  I can guaranty that ‘acting as a foreign agent’ will NOT be charged (at least under the current DOJ). It is too close to Joe. They are had at work letting the statue of limitations deal with these potential charges.
  
  p.s. Don’t care about drug charges. The only thing of real interest is whether Joe was involved and used his position to earn funds he funnelled through his son (aka 10% for the big guy). That is a serious crime, I think we will only know through historians in the future.
  
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  June 13, 2024 9:12am
  - cmm
    
    There are a bunch of flies buzzing around that area. Now that Hunter is damaged goods they can just blame everything on Hunter.
    
    Joe involved in corrupt foreign dealings? Oh no! It was just that Bad Bad Hunter trying to blame it on his innocent old dad.
    
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    June 13, 2024 10:31am
- cmm
  
  I don’t have any particular insights into Hunter Biden et al, but they do seem to be following the same leftie playbook they use here too:
  
  * Deny everything
  * When that can’t be sustained, play the victim card.
  * When that can’t be sustained, try to wriggle out on a technicality.
  * When that can’t be sustained, throw someone else under the bus.
  * When that doesn’t work, and the person in question can’t be saved, then throw them under the bus as far as possible blaming as much as possible on that person and claim everyone else is squeaky clean.
  
  That was how it played out with Cindy.
  First she denied everything
  Then she was the poor young women that sexists were picking on
  Then it was someone else’s fault.
  Then finally she could not be saved. They threw her under the bus blaming everything on her and Hipkins was the new Labour “refresh”.
  
  Same here:
  Now that Hunter cannot be saved, throw him as far under the bus as possible taking as much of Joe’s baggage with him.
  
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  June 13, 2024 10:17am
slightlyrighty

I see that 2 labour and one Green Wellington councillors have withdrawn their support for Tory Whanau…

Could it be that in seeking treatment for her mental health issues, she has become less Left Wing??
21 2
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June 13, 2024 9:03am
- RoboRob
  
  Could it be the mental health issues are just a usefull get out of jail card for bad behaviour and not working 🙂
  
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  June 13, 2024 9:50am
- Jack5
  
  Mental health “issues,” mental “illnesses,” and “mental disorders” – are the professionals settled on the differences, if any, in the meanings of these terms?
  
  Six months or so ago, Tory Whanau was reported as saying she had a drinking “problem”. Does that clarify her “issues”?
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/wellington-mayor-tory-whanau-admits-alcohol-problem-i-am-a-flawed-person/ZRSDRWCGGZCDBJQOSA7VSF2OVM/
  
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  June 13, 2024 11:17am
MCōs

An article that caught my eye
An American working in Iran was jailed & held hostage for more than 1-1/2yrs and when he was released in 2016 he got billed $6000 by the IRS for unpaid tax plus penalties. It eventually accumulated to $22,000 before he paid the $6,000
A bill was passed in the senate to stop this sort of outrage, but despite bipartisan support it’s held up in the house all these years later https://www.npr.org/2024/06/11/nx-s1-4964638/americans-detained-abroad-tax-penalties#:~:text=Lawmakers%20want%20to%20change%20that.&text=When%20journalist%20Jason%20Rezaian%20returned,surprise%20from%20the%20U.S.%20government.
13 1
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June 13, 2024 9:39am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Meh. Returning home after 1.5 years of combat and 3 years of being a POW, my Dad got a letter regretfully informing him that he owed taxes from the 1938-1939 financial year. See Sudden Violent Death and Taxes.
  
  It was this part of the letter that cracked me up when I found it under the house (and it’s now framed):
  
  My records show, and doubtless you will recollect, that at the time of your entry into the armed forces, there was an amount of £9.17.5d owing by you for income tax in respect of income derived during the year ended 31st March 1939.
  
  Sir Humphrey could not have phrased it better.
  
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  June 13, 2024 1:44pm
  - Arthur Fleck
    
    I have no words. That was disgusting treatment of a veteran.
    
    8 1
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    June 13, 2024 2:07pm
I remember when

“..shattered the image of the Netherlands as a safe, drug-positive society, whose otherwise tolerant reputation has been chipped away at amid a decade-long rise in drug- and gang-related killings.”

Luckily, Chloe will be able to, no doubt at some length, explain why this will not happen in New Zealand.
15 0
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June 13, 2024 10:05am
- slijmbal
  
  Having lived in the Netherlands quite some time ago I can confirm that even then they had a serious drug problem. Back then car stereos could be easily stolen and sold and it wasn’t worth having one as an addict would break your car window and steal it within a couple of weeks. Alarm or no alarm.
  
  Hard drugs were openly being sold at railway stations etc.
  
  However, dope, the dope cafes etc was in a different circle and treated pretty much like alcohol.
  
  Not a dope smoker myself but dope was never a serious issue in Holland – it has always been the hard drugs. Not really an argument against legalising dope.
  
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  June 13, 2024 12:57pm
  - kowtow
    
    I’ve read the Dutch are fed up with the dope tourists antics.
    
    There’s a downside .
    
    ps dope is not a “soft” drug . It causes mental illness.Oh and how come it’s ok to smoke that and not tobacco . So many inconsistencies.
    
    5 1
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    June 13, 2024 2:55pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      kowtow: “ps dope is not a “soft” drug . It causes mental illness”
      
      Much higher risk of that when starting young (especially with today’s high THC content and especially with heavy use). Should be available to retirees.
      
      3 0
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      June 13, 2024 6:42pm
I remember when

The EU places more tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles. NY Times.
“The EU said yesterday that it would impose additional tariffs of up to 38% on electric vehicles imported from China.”
“..they could also help guard against job losses for European automakers.”
“That protection could help to maintain political support for green initiatives at a time when Europe’s decarbonization efforts are increasingly drawing a backlash from voters who are upset with rapid price increases in recent years.”

Perhaps everyone should have tried market forces
instead of rushing in without adequate consideration.
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June 13, 2024 10:33am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Surely efforts to reduce emissions would be best met by giving folk in Europe and the USA access to cheap Chinese electric vehicles?
  
  Look at GM. It can’t make ICE cars without them falling apart.
  
  https://www.motor1.com/news/723094/chevrolet-corvette-seatbelt-lock-recall/
  
  Why would anyone in the USA buy an EV from them?
  
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  June 13, 2024 10:40am
  - cmm
    
    “Surely efforts to reduce emissions would be best met by giving folk in Europe and the USA access to cheap Chinese electric vehicles?”
    
    Well it depends….
    
    There’s an awful amount of coal burning required to make an EV. If it doesn’t last very long then it’s not really going to be reducing emissions.
    
    One of my cars is a 30 year old diesel that I use once or twice a week (maybe an average of 20 km a week).
    
    If I replaced that with an EV it would take at least 20 years to break even just for the energy used to make the thing.
    
    That said, the small, EVs (Chinese or not) are the only way to go for “sustainable” EVs. A 4 ton monstrosity such as a Cybertruck is never going to be sustainable anything.
    
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    June 13, 2024 11:09am
    - Jack5
      
      Will cheap Chinese electric cars soon swamp the NZ electricity system?
      
      Imagine people then desperate for transport because of blackouts and power cuts.
      
      Will they pay extortionate prices for old petrol vehicles because car retailers, the Government, and even manufacturers conspired to squeeze out petrol-car imports?
      
      6 0
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      June 13, 2024 11:22am
      - Paulus
        
        No now no subsidy and the second hand and new markets have almost totally collapsed i New Zealand.
        Where are the old used batteries going to be replaced and if so at what cost ?
        
        4 0
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        June 13, 2024 1:31pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “There’s an awful amount of coal burning required to make an EV. If it doesn’t last very long then it’s not really going to be reducing emissions.”
      
      Ok I’ll rephrase. If a government is going to mandate EVs like the USA and the UK, surely it is best if people have access to affordable reliable EVs rather than ones made by GM which are expensive and terrible quality.
      
      8 2
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      June 13, 2024 11:37am
      - cmm
        
        The governments can mandate all they want. Who cares? Those are laws that can be changed.
        
        What really matters is the real impact happens in the real world – not what happens on some PowerPoint presentation.
        
        The laws that really matter are the laws of physics.
        
        But, yes, I agree with your comments on GM etc. People will run down Chinese products for no valid reason. Sure, there were times in the past when Chinese products were substandard. But that is true of everyone’s products:
        * In the 1800s “American Made” was shit. It was a poor substitute for British and European made goods.
        * In the 1960s Japanese toys you got for Christmas didn’t last to the new Year. And Japanese cars were crap too. Now Japanese brands are synonymous with high quality: Toyota, Toshiba, Sony,…
        * 30 years ago Korean stuff was “junk”. Now Korean brands are world leading: Samsung, Kia etc.
        
        In the area I work in, electronics and computing, China is pulling away. OK, they don’t have the absolute fastest chips – yet – but their chip design capability is, IMHO, 5 years ahead of anyone else.
        
        When it comes to manufacturing China really knows how to drive cost out and can get the quality up there when needed.
        
        The real reason USA is imposing 100% duties on China is that the Americans can’t keep up in either price or quality, especially when you combine the two – ie. price for a specific quality level.
        
        11 2
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        June 13, 2024 11:58am
      - MCōs
        
        I heard on the radio this morning that China is manufacturing enough solar panels to generate more power than all the new sources of power in the rest of the world and that the whole of Africa is installing less than Holland
        
        3 1
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        June 13, 2024 12:29pm
      - cmm
        
        MCos: Just because you heard it on the radio doesn’t make it so.
        
        One of the biggest issues with solar panels is that it takes an enormous amount of energy to make one. Silicon is, after all, melted sand.
        
        And it isn’t any energy either. It is electricity.
        
        Thus if you want to make a lot of solar panels you first need to build a bunch of coal power stations (or whatever) to have enough electricity to make them.
        
        While solar panels might have a theoretical life time of 25+ years, many don’t last that long and generally only last 10 years or so before they are replaced.
        
        During that lifetime they might generate twice or so the power they took to make.
        
        That’s a win in total energy terms, but it means you have to first expend 5+ years of energy in one hit, up front, to make the panel.
        
        Then when the panels die/get replaced they need all that energy to manufacture their replacements.
        
        This makes a bit of a paradoxical/farcical situation where you first need to build more coal fired stations to be able to go coal free…
        
        10 1
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        June 13, 2024 1:12pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “When it comes to manufacturing China really knows how to drive cost out and can get the quality up there when needed.”
        
        You can work wonders like that in a totalitarian society. What’s the end game though?
        
        2 0
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        June 13, 2024 6:45pm
  - mogg
    
    EV’s whether from China or any other country are a liability for the owner.
    There has been a recent article by the Daily Telegraph motoring writers, where they have had a battery replaced in a Nissan Leaf, after necessary modifications and cost of new battery plus installation total cost was more than the market value of the vehicle.
    On top of that dealerships are very reluctant to take them as a trade in.
    
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    June 13, 2024 11:14am
    - kevn
      
      cmm… Not forgetting the solar panel disposal, end life of between 10-20 years max. Whilst hoping for no hail storms over the life of use.
      Unrecyclable.
      The Chinese solar panel factories have flooded the market globally.
      Any thoughts of them being a quality product?
      
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      June 13, 2024 2:01pm
mogg

For the children of the sixties, the ever lovely Francoise Hardy has just died aged 80. yrs:
https://youtu.be/X-yT_lXDu6U?si=rAjTl2GYmkrxigXj
Her other big hit was ‘Tous Les Garcons’
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June 13, 2024 10:42am
cmm

I wonder how long it would take to arrest someone throwing a dildo or tomato juice at Li Qiang?

I suspect it would be quicker than if you assaulted Posie Parker or Stephen Joyce.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350304545/nz-politics-live-chinese-premier-begins-his-official-visit-new-zealand
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June 13, 2024 11:46am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Steven
  
  6 0
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  June 13, 2024 11:48am
  - cmm
    
    Thanks
    
    6 0
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    June 13, 2024 12:00pm
- MCōs
  
  Josie Butler was arrested straightaway for biffing what she described as a dog’s toy at Mr J
  The difference was she wasn’t charged, which wouldn’t happen if someone threw something at a visiting dignitary such as P²
  
  7 1
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  June 13, 2024 12:19pm
- kowtow
  
  You’d remember the police operation to remove the lawful , peaceful protesters in Chch back in Shipley’s dayfor the then ChiPrez.
  
  The Cops should have been charged with assault , just like at the opening attempt to clear the lawful protesters on the parliament lawn.
  
  5 1
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  June 13, 2024 12:57pm
  - peterwn
    
    Protesters are not peaceful when they obstruct ordinary people going about their day to day business.
    
    0 0
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    June 13, 2024 10:02pm
- Philview
  
  Stuff have produced a documentary series about Chinese infiltration into New Zealand. A lot of their own output over the last 3 years or so has been anti the the West and not unlike CCP propaganda. Stuff could save time and questions themselves first.
  
  4 1
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  June 13, 2024 3:23pm
lifesgood

I hope Auckland City clears the rough sleepers off Quay St before the next cruise ship season starts. What a disgraceful welcome to our city and right when we are trying to increase tourism numbers. I always thought vagrancy was a crime but it appears not.
11 1
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June 13, 2024 12:02pm
- kowtow
  
  Why move them .
  
  Surely we want our visitors to have an authentic experience of NZ in the 21st C ,post Cindy .
  
  12 1
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  June 13, 2024 12:54pm
- peterwn
  
  It used to be in the old Police Offences Act. It would have been in the similar old NSW Act when NZ was part of NSW. The NSW government was disturbed at the lack of law and order in Wellington and sent Magistrate Murphy and five constables to Wellington to keep law and order. Hence Murphy Street in Thorndon.
  
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  June 13, 2024 9:57pm
Bridgenag

Was “Dr” Michael Mosley a spook who faked his own death?

https://open.substack.com/pub/miri/p/was-dr-michael-mosley-a-spook-who?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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June 13, 2024 12:33pm
- MCōs
  
  Here we go
  
  9 1
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  June 13, 2024 1:25pm
  - Ghost
    
    Unfortunately this is what happens. I remember the conspiracies around Anthony’s death. It sad people go down this disrespectful path with zero consideration for his family
    
    8 0
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    June 13, 2024 1:29pm
    - MCōs
      
      I read an article today about a recovering hardcore conspiracy theorist. She met someone whose friend was on one of the WTC planes.
      She told her that was impossible. There were no planes. The WTC was blown up by the government
      That was her light bulb moment
      Not immediately, but she was forever remorseful because she realized that woman had to put up up with that cruelty ever after
      
      5 2
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      June 13, 2024 5:49pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        A Guardian (or similar) article? You know they are purveyors of much silly 🐂💩 themselves?
        
        2 0
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        June 13, 2024 6:48pm
      - MCōs
        
        Here’s the article. Make up your own mind
        It’s not the Guardian
        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-12/conspiracy-theory-believers-on-how-they-got-out-of-rabbit-hole/103907258
        
        1 2
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        June 13, 2024 7:17pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        The ABC is about as mental as the Guardian. They take about one billion a year in taxpayer money and like RNZ are hard left activist a-holes.
        
        0 0
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        June 14, 2024 7:06pm
- Inandout
  
  Brid, I was unaware of his force feeding the NHS workers with the vaccine. In fact I was unaware of his existence before this.
  
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  June 13, 2024 2:28pm
kevn

Ban her forever. A better link…
https://dailysceptic.org/2024/06/12/how-jacinda-ardern-left-new-zealand-on-the-brink-of-blackouts-but-starmer-wants-to-copy-her/
7 1
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June 13, 2024 1:56pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  The UK are in for some real pain if they vote left. They are already in the shit!
  
  4 0
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  June 13, 2024 6:49pm
Sparrow

Why does NZ have to sign up to various international agreements coming out of likes of the UN ? What’s going to happen to us if we don’t? Save a fortune in airflights for politicians and bureaucrats. Yes naive but its about time countries gave two fingers to the likes of the UN and its offshoots. Seen them operating in many countries just a giant trough.
7 1
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June 13, 2024 2:07pm
- Inandout
  
  Sparrow, I suspect our horrendous debt means we have to comply in the meantime.
  
  2 0
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  June 13, 2024 2:29pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  What agreements?
  
  3 2
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  June 13, 2024 2:51pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Climate bollocks, for starters?
    
    3 0
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    June 13, 2024 6:50pm
Ghost

Never try to rip off a young girl

https://youtube.com/shorts/qBMSv9A5ouU?si=j1Mnr4YHzKV2ylAM
7 0
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June 13, 2024 3:20pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

SPEED!
The speed reductions were straight out of the lefties ban ban ban mindset.
It is 2024, we have good safe vehicles. Plus 20 years old and they are still safe. My 2001 Prado and Benedict’s Camry.
The 1970 Datsun 120Y shitboxes have gone ffs.
Some restrictions sure, but if you have a big open straight highway with no potholes (thanks Labour) then 120kph is fine. Even safer because you are not tempted to overtake. Cruise control at 120 and enjoy it!

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/speed-limit-reductions-to-be-reversed-govt-seeks-feedback-on-120km-h-limits/ar-BB1o7jig?
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June 13, 2024 3:27pm
- greybeard
  
  The problem is that very few NZ drivers have ever driven at that speed, regardless of how modern their car may be, and I include myself.
  At 120kph things can happen at a rate not everyone can handle, and combine that with the typical NZ driver’s inclination to change lanes without indicating and to follow too closely you are looking for trouble.
  110kph on Waikato Expressway & TG is enough, those roads are built for it. How come cars towing trailers, boats and caravans can also do 110kph on those roads ?
  
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  June 13, 2024 3:32pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    IMO the main barrier to 120 kmh on motorways is the shocking habit of many drivers to block the right hand lane. It wrecks the flow of traffic.
    
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    June 13, 2024 5:05pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Yep, they are a bunch of ignorant A-holes.
      
      2 1
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      June 13, 2024 5:27pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Benedict has a celica.
  
  I had a laugh today. One of the coalition policies is to increase the speed limit on the Kapiti expressway to 110 kmh. Instead of just doing it, the NZTA has launched “community consultation” about whether to do it. 🤡
  
  Good luck going back to the Minister telling him that they are not doing it.
  
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  June 13, 2024 5:02pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Sorry, I thought Camry because I have had 3.
    
    1 1
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    June 13, 2024 5:05pm
- MCōs
  
  The thing I notice is that trucks not only drive too fast, but don’t stick to the left hand lanes on motorways so that cars motoring along at a 100 aren’t held up.
  Some better manners on the open road would take some stress out of the journey
  
  1 1
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  June 13, 2024 7:36pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    You mean right hand lane
    You’re very confused
    Lol
    
    0 2
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    June 13, 2024 10:10pm
    - MCōs
      
      No I mean Left. Hand. Lane because they are generally slower than other vehicles, particularly on upward inclines
      
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      June 14, 2024 8:24am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Quid Pro Quo.
“raise $1 billion to send me back to the White House.
If he won, he said he would immediately reverse dozens of Biden’s environmental rules and policies. The $1 billion would be a “deal” for the companies, he added, because of the money they would save from deregulation.”

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/white-house-for-sale-donald-trump-is-selling-policies-for-a-second-term-to-the-highest-bidders/ar-BB1o6hd4?
1 4
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June 13, 2024 3:37pm
- Greenheart
  
  I think someone who claims his enemies wish to behead him and wants to put to death all drug dealers as they do in China has a mental health problem. No doubt Trump will make many more ridiculous claims, Steve.
  
  4 3
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  June 13, 2024 4:01pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    You mean like this?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/kathy-griffin-trump-head-photo-decapitation-beheading-pictures-a7764236.html
    
    3 1
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    June 13, 2024 5:30pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Probably exactly what Trump was referring to, but lefties like to believe the most ridiculous interpretations.
      
      2 1
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      June 13, 2024 6:53pm
- fernglas
  
  Hi Steve. Just for those of us who are unsure of where you stand on Trump, could you tell us whether you think this is a good or bad thing?
  
  3 0
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  June 13, 2024 4:38pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Trump knows how to play games with the big boys. He butters them up at Mar a Lago, but he is in their team.
    Yes it is a good thing, because the big oil guys know they can’t manipulate him.
    Negotiate negotiate negotiate, something that Joe can’t do.
    Sad that Trump now has only 4 years to drain that fucking swamp. I don’t think he can, but the next POTUS may continue. That is why the Democrats are in severe panic mode.
    See you Nov 5th!
    
    2 3
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    June 13, 2024 5:12pm
    - MCōs
      
      Forget about your 4D chess and Rubrics octahedron, sccepting money to change laws and regulations is what’s commonly known as corruption.
      
      3 2
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      June 13, 2024 6:31pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        All Trump is promising to do is change back to where they were before- which he did for nothing.
        And from the which the US economy bloomed.
        Before Biden accepted millions from people like Tom Steyer who has made billions from Bidens Green Nude Eel regulations.
        And all the others benefiting from Green tech regulations (like China who paid Hunter Biden millions) and the oil and gas industry being suppressed.
        Trump wants to make the US energy self sufficient and not reliant on China.
        To win he needs donations. Its a big money game.
        You should do some research on where the Democrat donations come from.
        Biden is the corrupt one. The Bank Statements prove it.
        Perhaps not use Google though
        LOL
        
        1 0
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        June 13, 2024 10:26pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Do not fear. Others with balls are coming up through the ranks.
      
      1 1
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      June 13, 2024 6:55pm
Ghost

Strange, stuff have dug up Jamie Lee Ross to talk about the Chinese. Not sure you could find a more despicable person in the country to interview.
8 0
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June 13, 2024 7:49pm
- Mike
  
  He was the main bag man for collecting the national party’s Chinese cash, wasn’t he?
  
  0 0
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  June 13, 2024 10:15pm
  - Ghost
    
    Wouldn’t trust a man who uses teenage girls in his escort business. About as reliable and the conman Steve posts about dayily
    
    1 0
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    June 13, 2024 11:09pm

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