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May 29, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 29 May 2024

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General Debate

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Scott

The New York Times, a very liberal newspaper, has this to say about the totalitarian nature of China and their ever expanding system of surveillance and control of their own citizens –

“The wall in the police station was covered in sheets of paper, one for every building in the sprawling Beijing apartment complex. Each sheet was further broken down by unit, with names, phone numbers and other information on the residents.

Perhaps the most important detail, though, was how each unit was color-coded. Green meant trustworthy. Yellow, needing attention. Orange required “strict control.”

This is the kind of local governance that China’s top leader, Xi Jinping, wants: more visible, more invasive, always on the lookout for real or perceived threats. Officers patrol apartment buildings listening for feuding neighbors. Officials recruit retirees playing chess outdoors as extra eyes and ears. In the workplace, employers are required to appoint “safety consultants” who report regularly to the police.

The Chinese Communist Party has long wielded perhaps the world’s most sweeping surveillance apparatus against activists and others who might possibly voice discontent. Then, during the coronavirus pandemic, the surveillance reached an unprecedented scale, tracking virtually every urban resident in the name of preventing infections.

Now, it is clear that Mr. Xi wants to make that expanded control permanent, and to push it even further.

The goal is no longer just to address specific threats, such as the virus or dissidents. It is to embed the party so deeply in daily life that no trouble, no matter how seemingly minor or apolitical, can even arise. ”

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2024/05/china-cracks-down.php
This is George Orwell’s 1984 novel brought to life today.
China is not our friend.
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May 29, 2024 8:02am
- imalwaysright
  
  And America and every western country operates on the trust model!
  Yeah, right.
  
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  May 29, 2024 9:25am
  - Grunter
    
    The US, EU, UK, Canada, Aust & NZ – we all operate to some degree on the same model, just less extreme than where China is at today.
    
    Does a true, free-market democracy operate anywhere anymore? – Nah
    
    If you disagree, then I’m keen to hear about it and move there.
    
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    May 29, 2024 11:18am
    - miltonF
      
      Exactly. China is becoming more capitalist. The west is becoming more socialist. Time is quickly approaching where the two systems cannot be easily differentiated.
      
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      May 29, 2024 5:06pm
  - waikatosinger
    
    Scott didn’t say that. He didn’t mention America or the West at all. Whataboutism. When you can’t dispute what is said, argue about what is not said.
    
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    May 29, 2024 11:52am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Clearly Scott didn’t say that. Its called a counterpoint.
      
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      May 29, 2024 12:24pm
- kowtow
  
  China under the communist party has always been a surveillance / control state . The only thing that’s different to the old block/commune wardens and their little cadre of helpers is they’ve modernised and digitalised it.
  
  The worrying thing is how our own govts /Elites have become so enamoured with it and seek to adopt at least some of their methods .
  
  Digital currency and lock downs being the most blatant but there’smany more besides.
  
  Feel free to add to the list.
  
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  May 29, 2024 9:56am
  - Kiwiguy
    
    To add to the list:
    EV cars – can be controlled/disabled remotely.
    Banning gas and firewood making us reliant on electricity – which can be disabled remotely.
    Cashless society.
    The whole subscription business model – your sub can be disabled remotely.
    There was an old article I saw recently about banning people from growing their own food.
    I could go on and on. Basically everything that is getting forced upon us, comes back to the same common denominator – state control of the population.
    
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    May 29, 2024 3:07pm
  - Oskar
    
    And here is the next step in China where children are being trained to snitch on relatives. This first step is minor – get the kids to look for poppies – but it can be expanded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aODb1zD7fTk
    
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    May 29, 2024 4:18pm
- artemisia
  
  However, over 4 decades China has lifted nearly a billion of its people out of extreme poverty, according to the World Bank. Those people might be happy to exchange surveillance for survival.
  
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  May 29, 2024 10:18am
  - NothingLeft
    
    PRC has done an absolutely shit job of lifting ‘nearly a billion of its people out of extreme poverty’. Surrounding better run countries and democracies of similar ethnicity (Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Japan) who were similarly poor at end of WW2, have all advanced economically to a far greater extent, and more than half of Chinese population are still trying to survive on less than $5 a day, ie really scrabbling-for-existence poor.
    https://youtu.be/ITS58M9oehY?t=116
    
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    May 29, 2024 10:26am
    - Taieri
      
      (Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Japan) who were similarly poor at end of WW2
      ———–
      
      None of these countries had their own version of a Chairman Mao with his Great Leap Forward, the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution and all sorts of other weird and wonderful ideas…
      
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      May 29, 2024 11:33am
      - NothingLeft
        
        Even if you say look at progress in ~40 years since great reformer Deng Xiaoping in 80’s it has been woeful compared to what those other countries achieved from 1950’s-1990’s – achieving OECD levels of development in 80’s-90’s.
        
        As we have all seen time and again; Communism/authoritarian rule is always stifling and backwards, benefiting mostly only the corrupt leaders at cost of everyone else. And regressive authoritarian Xi is pulling them backwards into the shitter again.
        
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        May 29, 2024 12:42pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    That was then. This is now.
    
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    May 29, 2024 10:51am
- Handyman
  
  Remember when Ardern created the “dob your neighbour” line during the lockdown. 5,000 people called 0800STAZI in the first few days.
  NZ could easily become China.
  
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  May 29, 2024 1:46pm
- ISeeRed
  
  But the trains run on time! When they’re not derailing.
  
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  May 29, 2024 5:16pm
- Country Air Ian.
  
  Haha. Bits of paper.
  The NSA and other western societies use technology to do the same thing.
  
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  May 29, 2024 5:25pm
Mike

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Happy International Day of UN Peacekeepers!
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May 29, 2024 8:05am
- cmm
  
  Those (inaudibles).
  
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  May 29, 2024 8:40am
- 3-coil
  
  Hey Mike – wrong again, October 7 is the day of UN Peacekeepers.
  
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  May 29, 2024 8:52am
  - Mike
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Day_of_United_Nations_Peacekeepers
    
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    May 29, 2024 9:53am
  - G152
    
    Apologists wrong every time about everything
    
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    May 29, 2024 10:31am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Boom!
    
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    May 29, 2024 10:52am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  This message not brought to you by the people of Rwanda and Srebrenica.
  
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  May 29, 2024 8:59am
  - kowtow
    
    Haiti’s another.
    
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    May 29, 2024 9:57am
  - Mike
    
    Perhaps that response is similar to commemorating the defeats at Gallipoli, Ypres or Crete rather than the victories of Le Quesnoy or Trieste.
    
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    May 29, 2024 9:58am
Yvette

Towards a Māori Nation
Hei whakatinanatia te kotahitanga
While a distinct constitutional democracy eventually emerged out of these British imperial roots, two important questions about our democracy have never been asked nor answered by New Zealanders; can a State formed out of unceded sovereignty and injustice be constitutionally legitimate and can a nation arising out of broken promises and unjust taking of other people’s lands, power and lives endure unchanged forever? – Initial National Model (page 1 of 4) pdf

Are Luxon and Seymour timidly wondering what to do, or are they quietly waiting for a Maori Nation to overstep a line?
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May 29, 2024 8:13am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That’s a good question to ask the cowboy.
  
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  May 29, 2024 8:46am
  - 3-coil
    
    SteveO – just because he wears a Kimosabe hat does not make him a cowboy.
    
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    May 29, 2024 8:59am
    - kowtow
      
      All hat and no horse……..
      
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      May 29, 2024 10:09am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      He has many hats, depending on who a identifies as on that day.
      Waiting for the Winston Churchill one.
      
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      May 29, 2024 10:53am
- pdm
  
  Luxon probably is as you say.
  
  Seymour on the other hand seems to have a grip on where The Maori Party, Wee Willie Jackson and others are trying to take things.
  
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  May 29, 2024 8:46am
- Grunter
  
  The only question left is “How do we now deal with this mess?”
  
  It is very clear that we have a minority of Maori extremists who want a separate State in NZ. They have stated that many many times. They have representation in Parliament (TPM) via a race-based voting system that allows them in the back door.
  
  Our options are;
  1. Peacefully accept an apartheid state where there is Maori and ‘All Others’.
  2. Peacefully reject an apartheid state, probably via some sort of referendum and a clear-cut law enacted.
  3. Some sort of weird, race-based ideology civil unrest (Civil War??) where the ‘winner’ enforces their view of the world.
  
  Right now we are on the path of Option 3.
  
  Seymour has a bit of a referendum-type plan, but has less than 10% of the public vote and 2 coalition parties that I can not figure out what they hell they want.
  
  I have little confidence that our beloved leaders will get this sorted (Option 2).
  
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  May 29, 2024 9:15am
  - artemisia
    
    Secession?
    
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    May 29, 2024 10:19am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Might work for Tuhoe, not so much others.
      
      The problem for Tuhoe would come once the NZ taxpayer money hose was turned off. At that point, the belt & road loans from those nice people out of East Asia would look attractive and whoops! we’d have the CCP openly setting up bases in our midst.
      
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      May 29, 2024 10:55am
      - artemisia
        
        Border control. Probably cheaper than current spending.
        
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        May 29, 2024 11:25am
  - wilderbeast
    
    Good post, though I’m unsure.
    
    The Māori political class has always been full of hypocrites who decry “the Crown” etc etc and loudly scream for its destruction but don’t really mean it because it might mean the end of the gravy train. Those people also tend to make their careers bouncing from one Crown sponsored trough to another. For them it’s just rhetoric designed to increase the flow of gravy rather than bring an end to the vessels that deliver that gravy.
    
    But I’m struggling to put my finger on the new generation. Maybe they really do mean it? It’s a much higher stakes game but maybe they genuinely think they can deliver some kind of regressive ethno-state? One thing is clear to me, if they carry on on their current radical path it’s not long until we see some serious social unrest, stoked by their mad ideas. It’s a NZ I never expected to see in my lifetime.
    
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    May 29, 2024 6:58pm
- surfing
  
  Law schools in New Zealand are basically teaching that Maori law is the law.
  
  Given this is what future lawyers are being taught, it will eventually happen.
  
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  May 29, 2024 12:00pm
- Damocles11
  
  Luxon ‘and Seymour’? As usual the gaslighting about ACT by National and NZ First supporters continues. Will National and Luxon and NZ First and Winston ‘man up’ and support Seymours Treaty bill? Will Winston and Jones match their talk with some real action by dealing to the Waitangi Tribunal? Last time I checked Luxon was the PM and Winston was the deputy PM. Luxon ducks for cover and Winston sounds off on Twitter, no real action to be seen.
  
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  May 29, 2024 1:13pm
pdm

Has anyone else seen the latest Roy Morgan Poll?

National down to 33.5%
Labour up to 30%
Greens holding at 14%

Those figures are hard to believe – have a look here:
https://nominister.wordpress.com/2024/05/28/the-may-roy-morgan-poll-looks-out-of-kilter-to-me-but-then-again/
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May 29, 2024 8:20am
- Mike
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Yes, reality sometimes conflicts with my beliefs too.
  
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  May 29, 2024 8:22am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    “National are doing the right things in Government” and “National aren’t popular in the polls” are not conflicting beliefs.
    
    In fact, it is to be expected that a Government which did what needed to be done would be unpopular.
    
    Getting out of the mess we’re in is going to hurt and people can’t be expected to enjoy it, particularly when other politicians and most of the media are irresponsibly telling them that the pain’s not necessary.
    
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    May 29, 2024 10:07am
- Flossie
  
  Interesting to note TPM are down. Maybe their incitement to “disruption” isn’t all that popular.
  
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  May 29, 2024 8:24am
  - pdm
    
    On that Poll TMP 6 seats could be pivotal because of the Overhang..
    
    As far as Party Vote goes they will always be a 2.5% to 3% outfit.
    
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    May 29, 2024 8:48am
    - Damocles11
      
      TPM supporters probably are drifting over to Labour on the party vote. They’ll deliver 6 or 7 electorate seats for TPM, and cast their party votes for Labour boosting their percentage of the vote. And one day soon we’ll get a radical racist far Left government as a consequence. And all because the gutless National party didn’t remove the racist electorates when they had the chance.
      
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      May 29, 2024 1:17pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        Absolutely this.
        
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        May 29, 2024 3:00pm
      - Country Air Ian.
        
        Memories are short.
        
        Remember John Key (2008) got in to bed with the Maori Party to consolidate his majority.
        Hence no removal attempt for Maori seats.
        
        National negotiated with smaller parties to form a minority government with confidence and supply from the classical-liberal ACT Party, the centrist United Future and the indigenous-rights-based Māori Party.[39]
        
        Nothing to do with National being week.
        
        All about tradeoffs in politics to maintain power.
        
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        May 29, 2024 5:40pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Protesters are not that bright you know.
    This lot get others to do their dirty work.
    
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    May 29, 2024 8:50am
  - cmm
    
    ” Maybe their incitement to “disruption” isn’t all that popular.”
    
    This polling would likely have happened before that incitement.
    
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    May 29, 2024 9:14am
- Tomtoddy
  
  I would take such a poll with a grain of salt. However we should not dismiss the massive media effort to overthrow this Govt. Every day all the larger media outlets are running attack dogs, including cartoons and letters to editors.
  
  It is the worst, most disturbing media move I can ever remember.
  
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  May 29, 2024 9:03am
  - MCōs
    
    You could’ve been here when they pilloried Ian Foster
    
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    May 29, 2024 9:28am
- cmm
  
  I don’t recall the previous numbers.
  +-2.5% would be statistical noise.
  
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  May 29, 2024 9:13am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

So who really wants to imprison their enemies?

https://gopnewsfeed.com/trump-did-it-complete-hillary-meltdown/?
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May 29, 2024 8:21am
- MCōs
  
  Wasn’t it Mr Trump who wanted to lock up Mrs Clinton, his mortal enemy?
  Of course it never happened and Melania & Hillary probably share recipes now – for poison mushroom pies.
  
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  May 29, 2024 9:34am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I think half the World wants to lock up Hillary. I have a sign in the back window of my Prado “Hillary for Prison 2024.”
    Next time I’m in your area I’ll let you know. Look for a Gold Landcruiser Prado.
    
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    May 29, 2024 11:02am
  - NothingLeft
    
    But he never made any moves to do so – just his usual bluster and bullshit. Compare with democrats who have made every effort to actually imprison Trump on manufactured pretexts.
    
    Pretty clear who is more evil in reality.
    
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    May 29, 2024 12:45pm
    - jkt
      
      Has the prosecutor corrupted the minds of the 12 jurors or did the defence reach the wisdom of a juror?
      
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      May 29, 2024 4:56pm
    - miltonF
      
      Exactly. Trump says mean things, but the dems actually do mean things. Judge by actions and not words.
      
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      May 29, 2024 5:09pm
thetiedarch

On the face of it, this has me pissed off:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-police-officer-charged-with-causing-death-of-fleeing-motorcyclist-pleads-not-guilty-heading-to-jury-trial/OGJMF2RZ45ETZPRDRECFPXDLIY/

All the cop did was activate his lights. The motorbike crashing cannot be purely down to that (if at all).

We’re charging an officer with a serious crime, when all he was doing was his job.
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May 29, 2024 8:28am
- pdm
  
  No wonder we have problems getting Police Recruits these days.
  
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  May 29, 2024 8:49am
- cmm
  
  There are always at least two sides to these.
  
  On the one side, we need to ensure all police incidents are examined for two main reasons:
  * To make sure that the cops are acting properly and are not abusing power.
  * To learn for the future.
  
  On the other side of this, we cannot have a police force that is fearful of acting because there might be negative consequences.
  
  Then there’s the “third side”: the cop who personally has to put up with these charges hanging over his head for many months – just for doing his job. Stress on him, stress on the family, etc etc. And that is going to hang over his head long after the trial is finished.
  
  What we have happening in NZ can far too easily end up with the same problems as after the Floyd incident in USA (and in many ways probably already down that road):
  * thousands of cops looked at how that all went down and turned in their badges because continuing to be a cop is too much personal risk/stress.
  * police became fearful of acting and turned a blind eye to crime – it just is too risky to get involved.
  * recruitment plummeted.
  
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  May 29, 2024 9:05am
- rouppe
  
  A police officer activating his lights is an instruction to the motorist to pull over and stop.
  
  The motorist decides not to and drives away.
  
  The motorist loses control of their vehicle and crashes.
  
  That’s on the motorist.
  
  The only way it could become the responsibility of the Police Officer is if they make contact with the motorist, or is pushing so hard that there is risk of the two vehicles colliding if the pursued vehicle were to brake.
  
  Neither of these conditions applied as far as I know.
  
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  May 29, 2024 10:22am
  - kowtow
    
    It will be an interesting case .
    
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    May 29, 2024 1:20pm
    - cmm
      
      For us, yes, but no doubt the process has fucked up the cop’s life.
      
      The message is clear for other cops: see nothing, do nothing and just turn the corner to avoid interacting with criminals.
      
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      May 29, 2024 3:48pm
      - kowtow
        
        Agreed.
        The interest will be in what the hell the process/thinking of the prosecution was.
        
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        May 29, 2024 4:20pm
Simon

Compulsory miliary training re appearing across Europe. Twin threats of China / Russia.

Should NZ have CMT. Will young NZers fight to protect DEI, gay fake pedestrian crossings, entrenched state racism against non-Maori and the climate scam?
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May 29, 2024 8:31am
- cmm
  
  I think CMT is a huge benefit for society – especially the society we have now where helicopter parents are still hovering over their “children” in their late 20s and even 30s.
  
  It does not need to be that long: 6 to 9 months to give reasonable infantry training.
  
  It is a really low-cost way of building a defensive strategy too.
  
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  May 29, 2024 8:44am
  - Grunter
    
    If it is that obviously so good then why make it compulsory?
    
    If you want the training for life skills and personal development, go for it.
    
    If you want to fight wars for our clown world leaders, go for it.
    
    But don’t make it compulsory.
    
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    May 29, 2024 9:01am
    - cmm
      
      Like school, it if wasn’t compulsory people would rather just sit at home and play Xbox.
      
      Many of our “peers” have conscription and people just view it as a rite of passage.
      
      This is not about arming an expeditionary force (going fight wars for clowns), but rather training a defensive force (like the Swiss model).
      
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      May 29, 2024 9:09am
      - waikatosinger
        
        Requiring each resident to maintain a military rifle as the swiss do would also help, but might be a step too far for some people.
        
        CMT also fosters cohesion across society and helps maintain a national identity.
        
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        May 29, 2024 12:01pm
      - Paulus
        
        It has been said that excellent products of Charter Schools may well encourage these pupils to consider wider views – it is suggested that voluntarily some of the products may well join our Military voluntarily and I would accept this and these people as a good idea.
        From what we have seen previously Charter Schools encourage such as discipline – and the pupils are proud of it.
        
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        May 29, 2024 12:59pm
      - AitchW
        
        Waikatosinger, how many of those military firearms would be “stolen”? Such a move would surely be a windfall for the gangs.
        
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        May 29, 2024 1:52pm
      - cmm
        
        I don’t think there is a need to go “full Swiss” and have all citizens armed all the time. We don’t have land borders and would have at least a few hours warning of any real invasion. Keeping rifles in distributed armories would be fine.
        
        “CMT also fosters cohesion across society and helps maintain a national identity”
        
        Yup, certainly national service in South Africa exposed people to working with segments of society they never would have otherwise.
        
        Military service always gives you something common to talk about – if nothing else.
        
        I am English speaking, from Cape Town and Natal. I seldom had anything to do with white Afrikaners – especially from the Transvaal area – until I went to the Army. In my time in the Army I ended up speaking Afrikaans 80% of the time, working with some people that could barely read and write – kinda exactly the sort of people I was not used to dealing with.
        
        For typical Afrikaners it was even more exposure. Most had never considered non-white people to be peers, but in the Army race was not much of an issue. You saluted an officer no matter his race. Afrikaners from seriously racist households soon found themselves drinking and eating with their darker-skinned brothers in arms. That uniform makes everyone equal.
        
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        May 29, 2024 2:36pm
      - waikatosinger
        
        @AitchW : You would think that. But strangely I have never heard of Switzerland as being a hotbed of armed criminal gangs. Quite the opposite actually. It just hasn’t resulted in a lot of gun crime like you see in the US.
        
        Some of it might be to do with the fact that these are semiautomatic rifles and not pistols. They can’t be concealed and you can’t walk around with them in public without being noticed. Maybe that has something to do with it. And if everyone is armed the criminals lose their edge.
        
        It must make the job of the police in Switzerland a bit more dangerous though.
        
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        May 29, 2024 3:13pm
  - Cassandra
    
    Low cost it is not. We do not have the infrastructure – camps or personnel – to run even a partial National Service; we’ve never run anything more than 3 or 4 months. It’ll never happen.
    
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    May 29, 2024 9:02am
    - AitchW
      
      I joined the Territorials soon after leaving school. 12 weeks in Waiouru after 6 years of boarding school was a doddle. Heated barracks, plenty of reasonable food ( much better than school food. Papakura food was even better!) and there were even girls there!
      
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      May 29, 2024 1:56pm
    - cmm
      
      “We do not have the infrastructure”
      
      I spent 2 months in the Army under canvas. No hardship.
      A few years ago when we were “between houses”, my family lived in tents for two and a half months. No problems.
      
      Are our little darlings to tender for this?
      
      Macpac camping tents – suitable for 3 soldiers – $400 odd each. Government does not pay GST and could bulk buy, so even cheaper. That’s less than $150 per soldier.
      
      Rifles: SKS: $200 to 300 each in volume. Perfectly adequate for most infantry purposes. Otherwise AR15-style rifles are around $500 to 600 in volume.
      
      Add a sleeping bag, backpack and other kit: should get change for $2000 per soldier.
      
      2 2
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      May 29, 2024 4:00pm
- Grunter
  
  I see Sunak campaigning on all 18-year-olds to do compulsory military training if re-elected.
  
  Sunak
  “Generations of young people have not had the opportunities or experience they deserve…..”
  
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  May 29, 2024 8:52am
  - kowtow
    
    A drowning man reaching for what he hopes is an electorate straw in desperation.
    
    6 1
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    May 29, 2024 1:22pm
  - julesnzuk
    
    Not quite. He’s campaigning for National Service – with the option of military (which would be seen as competitive with only 30000 places available) or community service. Personally I think it’s a good idea.
    
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    May 30, 2024 2:09am
- Jethrod
  
  Charter schools are CMT without the bullets.
  
  3 12
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  May 29, 2024 9:37am
  - rouppe
    
    They’re not compulsory
    
    11 1
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    May 29, 2024 10:24am
  - waikatosinger
    
    Only a minority of charter schools are bootcamplike. The point of charter schools is that they are all trying something different.
    
    0 1
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    May 29, 2024 9:49pm
- peterwn
  
  Last time NZ had this, they botched it up badly. The (then) Labour Department organised registrations and conducted ballots but named significant more young men than the Army were geared to handle. So there was a waiting-list of young men (and their employers) wondering when they were going to be called up so they could plan their lives. They just generally accepted the situation. Nowadays there would be no such patience.
  
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  May 29, 2024 9:46am
Maggie Pie

INDIAN DAIRY OWNER ISSUES WARNING

Prepare for an outbreak of Ram-Raids and Armed Robberies tomorrow as all available Police gear up to monitor the planned Hikoi from North Cape to Bluff.

https://twitter.com/NZPoliceMedia/status/1795548111311638557
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May 29, 2024 8:34am
- kevn
  
  Maggie… Indeed. Plus a perfect way to further alienate from thinking NZer’s.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/day-of-disruption-police-want-commuters-to-head-to-work-early-and-avoid-maori-carkois/R6BUYEXBOJDCLLPGKACOBK5QEY/
  
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  May 29, 2024 9:11am
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    I’m intrigued as to what the outcome would be if one of these Maori carkois stop a Maori woman getting to a hospital to deliver her Maori baby and an adverse event happens?
    
    4 0
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    May 29, 2024 1:45pm
    - cmm
      
      Jeez, don’t you know?
      
      It would be blamed on the failure of colonialism.
      
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      May 29, 2024 4:01pm
- Matt Long
  
  Are you saying the ram raiders will be too busy to join the hikoi, Maggie, or that the hikoi will make stops on the way?
  
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  May 29, 2024 9:50am
  - Red
    
    Apparently, if you dig deeper into the Post, “as all available Police gear up to monitor the planned Hikoi from North Cape to Bluff.”
    
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    May 29, 2024 8:40pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, Mitchell has uttered this.
  “I’ve been very clear with the commissioner that my expectations are that law-abiding Kiwis going about their daily business, their rights are protected above those who choose to break the law,” Mitchell said.’
  If Coster fails this test it may be grounds for dismissal..well hope springs eternal.
  
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  May 29, 2024 10:47am
  - Mike
    
    Minister can’t sack the commissioner.
    
    4 5
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    May 29, 2024 11:39am
    - Red
      
      “it may be grounds for dismissal” through Mike’s monocle becomes “Minister can’t sack the commissioner.”
      Get another lens, Mike, you misread EVERYTHING.
      
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      May 29, 2024 5:10pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Who will be Trump’s VP?
Maybe this dude,

https://quicknewsupdates.com/vp-stunner-the-people-want/?
3 2
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May 29, 2024 8:37am
- Jethrod
  
  Is that Baron?
  
  3 2
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  May 29, 2024 8:50am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes I think so.
    
    3 3
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    May 29, 2024 10:25am
- thirteenstars
  
  Scott would be a good choice but Trump has plenty of good options for VP.
  
  Meanwhile, with Biden and Harris we have the Punch Drunk and Diversity-Hire Judy Show.
  
  11 2
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  May 29, 2024 9:05am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Punch and Judy, funny AF. So are Joe and Kamala!
    
    4 3
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    May 29, 2024 10:26am
- MCōs
  
  Supposed to bucket down in Auckland today
  Might pay to keep your gold Trump gumboots handy
  
  7 3
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  May 29, 2024 9:08am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Can’t get them. US only I think.
    Every time another lot are on the market they sell in minutes.
    
    3 3
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    May 29, 2024 10:37am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The man is GOLD!! 🙂
      
      3 3
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      May 29, 2024 11:32am
Cassandra

Interesting report in The Australian this morning of a defence conference in Oz. The main thrust is workforce, with experts stating that Oz will have to import tens of thousands of skilled tradies. 30,000 needed in South Australia alone to build the subs. UK High Commissioner stating that poaching Brits is not the solution. Guess where they’ll get a large number from?
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May 29, 2024 9:05am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  A large area of the world are now experiencing a lack of workers owing to plummeting birth rates.
  
  PRC/Japan/both Koreas/Europe/Aus/NZ are now well under replacement rates.
  
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  May 29, 2024 9:50am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Maybe already done. That is why Labour could not get any houses built?
  
  3 3
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  May 29, 2024 11:34am
  - Jethrod
    
    The solution is to get persons from the Middle East//
    
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    May 29, 2024 1:19pm
Cassandra

The strike in Rafah which allegedly hit the safe zone in fact targeted a compound 1,500 metres from it. I’ve seen the map. It set off Hamas munitions which in turn caused the tent fire. Usual hysteria blaming Israel. The investigation will reveal the facts.
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May 29, 2024 9:16am
- MCōs
  
  Better let Netanyahu know so he can withdraw his apology
  
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  May 29, 2024 9:49am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Yes,
    The Netanyahu cheerleaders have been quiet lately.
    Probably got bored.
    
    4 7
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    May 29, 2024 10:24am
  - Geri Sjovik
    
    In a speech before Israel’s parliament, Netanyahu said that “despite our utmost efforts not to harm innocent civilians, last night, there was a tragic mistake. We are investigating the incident and will obtain a conclusion because this is our policy.”
    
    Doesn’t sound like an apology to me.
    
    Now I must go and google all the apologies O’Bomba uttered after yet another wedding party massacre.
    
    Khan and the actors wife must have that arrest warrant application in the post.
    
    10 2
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    May 29, 2024 11:18am
  - Cassandra
    
    He didn’t apologise; he said it was a mishap, not that it was a mistake. And it may well have nvolved shrapnel from the targeted bmbing, but that’s just the fortunes of war – Hamas has a truck load of munitions , Israeli bomb hits target, kills Hamas officers, munitions go off, tents catch fire. It was 1.5 km from the safe zone!
    
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    May 29, 2024 11:39am
    - Yabster
      
      you mean Mcos got in wrong or is confused?- I can’t believe it….
      
      5 2
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      May 29, 2024 1:02pm
- Geri Sjovik
  
  Too late, the media have run the story around the world at least twice.
  
  6 2
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  May 29, 2024 10:46am
- Paulus
  
  No result of any investigation will do anything but heavily condemn Israel.
  
  4 0
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  May 29, 2024 1:02pm
  - Geri Sjovik
    
    But never more than lip-service to hamas storing missiles within the civilian population. Which I am told is a warcrime.
    
    Before blowing up 2 hamas leaders the IDF confirmed no women or children were in the compound. A compound that was over 180 metres away from the area of the fire and 1.7 kilometres from the civilian safe zone.
    
    The IDF munition could not have started the fire. The explosion from the successful strike could not have caused the size of the explosion and the secondary explosions that occurred.
    
    It would appear that hamas rockets went off with a bang. There is also talk of a video of the hamas fighters clearing out evidence of these rockets after the attack.
    
    But what the heck; IDF bad, mudering, raping hamas brutes just your local friendly freedom-fighters.
    
    Free the hostages still alive and return the bodies of the ones that have been killed would be something useful that the UN, the ICC, and the ICJ could turn their hand too. If they were so inclined.
    
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    May 29, 2024 3:25pm
greenfinger

Te Pati Māori Party is so pathetic. I think the whole nation include many Maoris wish those attention seeking personalities spend more energy encouraging their kids to attend school so that there have a better chance of succeeding in live than wasting their Maori to strike and march. You wonder when the penny will drop that their actions amount to perpetuating the poverty trap of knowledge among Moaris.
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May 29, 2024 9:21am
Maggie Pie

Things that make you go Hmmm 🙁

Sounds like the Pope might be in a bit of trouble.
It’s reported that in a meeting he was recorded as saying….

“Ghey people shouldn’t become Priests because there were already too many faggots
in the Catholic Church as it is”

Listen @ 26s…..

https://x.com/KTHopkins/status/1795491102226624780
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May 29, 2024 9:27am
- MCōs
  
  I’m certainly not going to listen to the loathsome Miss Hopkins
  However here is an article on the same meeting plus some more remarks about gay priests
  https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/pope-apologizes-after-quoted-vulgar-term-gays-church-110607133
  
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  May 29, 2024 10:11am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Watcha mean you’re not gonna listen?
    It’s not as if you got anything else to do 😀
    
    13 4
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    May 29, 2024 11:16am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump: “Please Mr Jailer…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgzZxq9gq8U&t=73s
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May 29, 2024 9:35am
Yvette

Towards a Māori Nation
Hei whakatinanatia te kotahitanga

[…]

■ The coalition government has callously reversed decades of reconciliation.
Only three scenarios are possible.

Following efforts in recent decades to reconcile and heal historic injustices, the recently elected coalition government has rapidly and callously reversed the trajectory of that reconciliation.
In response, only three options are possible for ngāi Māori: to accept the reversal and domination of hapū / iwi by the Crown; to seek a return to a partnership frame of respecul power sharing; or to withdraw consent to participate further in current constuonal arrangements and civil society, choosing instead, to revitalise and recreate a new “polity” representing the interests of ngā hapū / iwi katoa i.e. to exert our collective no rangaratanga!

■ This paper outlines a new model for a national polity for hapū/iwi.
If the Crown is not interested, establishing a Māori nation is recommended.

The right to revitalise and strengthen the operation of hapū / iwi at a local level is entirely the right of each as they see fit, and this paper offers nothing in that regard. Instead, this paper focuses on what a new collective polity of hapū/iwi might look like in 2024 and beyond, but only as far as being a first step in re-engaging with the Crown in pursuit of option two above.
If the Crown is not interested in seeking a genuine partnership, then this proposal supports the further development of additional instutional arrangements to enable the creation and operation of an independent Māori nation in Aotearoa with associated governing institutions i.e. independent legislature, executive and judiciary.

Read more …
https://www.huitaumata.co.nz/_files/ugd/a0663d_d18fefd36192409a839d98eeb10b4171.pdf

■ The Government has the right to govern – ACT
15 1
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May 29, 2024 9:36am
- Yabster
  
  if it’s option three I assume they will be giving back all the Treaty settlements and handouts?
  
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  May 29, 2024 10:21am
- Libertarians are right
  
  None of the Governments was reversing “decades of reconciliation”.
  They are reversing policies Labour brought in without any mandate whatsoever AND have a mandate to do those reversals.
  
  We can’t return to a “partnership frame of power sharing” as this never existed.
  
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  May 29, 2024 10:44am
- Cantabrian
  
  How stupid these calls for a separate independent nation within the country are. With two systems, whose laws would apply? Who would collect taxes? Who would reglate society? Who would set speed limits? Who would issue broadcasting licences? Would there be two court systems, with offenders against native laws being tried in native courts? Who would provide the Police? Defence? Foreign relations? And so it goes on.
  If I am not Maori, I presume would not be required to comply with laws made by the Maori parliament – or would I?
  
  And if my reading is correct, the authors contemplate a form of federation – so each Iwi makes its own rules, like a state of the USA. How many Iwi are there? What a mess there would be …
  
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  May 29, 2024 11:57am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Yeah – bureaucracy at a national level AND at a tribal level. There would be no money for anything else.
    Which is where the as yet unmentioned “Pakeha Tax” comes in I assume?
    
    I also assume that there will be considerable reallocation of Government assets at the start too.
    
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    May 29, 2024 2:04pm
  - Mike
    
    I haven’t read the linked proposal, but there are functioning models of autonomy or co-governance in NZ and elsewhere.
    
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    May 29, 2024 5:34pm
    - Red
      
      Be honest Mike, Iwi just want to own a Cassino or Three.
      
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      May 29, 2024 9:15pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Does it say anywhere in the “Towards a Maori Nation”doc who is going to pay for its planning, establishment and all other ongoing legislative requirements?
  If you want to secede from the legally elected government, I’m picking that Māori would have to put their hands in their own pockets.
  Would they not?
  
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  May 29, 2024 12:15pm
thirteenstars

Anyone got a good online supplier of coffee?

For years I’ve used the Robert Harris Italian Roast (espresso grind) which is a dark roast but not overly so.

https://robertharris.co.nz/our-coffee-products/italian-roast-whole-beans/

I feel like a change. Big flavour is a must. I’m not into mellow and dainty.

Any suggestions for coffee that you have actually tasted and would recommend? Prefer espresso grind.

Either that or I’m going back to big Australian reds for breakfast.
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May 29, 2024 9:47am
- Swifty
  
  I’ve been using Jed’s Coffee lately – the ‘X’ variety, darker than what was their most dark roast, their ‘Number 5’.
  
  Grunty, strong and rich. I like it.
  
  Not sure if you can buy online.
  
  5 1
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  May 29, 2024 11:41am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Cheers. Jed’s X is available at supermarkets and I’ve used it on occasion.
    
    There’s an online brand Deadly Sin which has good reviews but $28 + $5 shipping for 500g seems a little steep to me. But it does have good reviews:
    
    https://deadlysincoffee.co.nz/products/plunger-coffee?variant=40352234995884
    
    4 1
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    May 29, 2024 12:21pm
- wsk12345
  
  I really like the brand from Pak n Save that comes in paper bags – 1kg or 200 g, I think it’s called Heartland Really good price relatively – about $30/kg bag on special. Was $23 a year ago. Chch roasted, I get dark roast beans.
  
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  May 29, 2024 6:47pm
Matt Long

Would you buy a vehicle that is twice as likely to cause an accident with pedestrians?
https://www.drivencarguide.co.nz/news/evs-hybrids-twice-as-likely-to-hit-pedestrians-study/
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May 29, 2024 9:53am
- kevn
  
  Matt… I’m surprised the EVs don’t come with an optional brmmm brmm switch. Choose V8, twin turbo V12 or even a wop wop rotary sound.
  Even some late model Nissan utes had something like that.
  
  10 1
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  May 29, 2024 10:13am
- kowtow
  
  Woke virtue signallers “saving” the planet along with cheapos who wanted subsidies out of their fellow citizens would……..
  
  4 3
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  May 29, 2024 10:14am
- peterwn
  
  A 19th century solution is possible – have a person with a red flag walking in front of the EV. In seriousness it is a problem – I cross a winding road a few times a week and think ‘EV’. Limited visibility to the right so I stop, look right, left and right (just as the traffic officer at school advised), listen then cross as far as I can.
  
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  May 29, 2024 10:25am
- Maggie Pie
  
  One that hit cyclists would be a lot more popular.
  
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  May 29, 2024 10:44am
Maggie Pie

Talking to one of the girls from tennis earlier that has her own RE Franchise.
She was saying they haven’t got any concerns about The Reserve Bank’s new rules
around the DTI ratio being set at 6.
It’s only going to affect the low income first-home buyers anyway.
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May 29, 2024 10:01am
- thirteenstars
  
  Newsflash: there are no “low income first-home buyers” anymore. Hasn’t been for years.
  
  You want to destroy a Western country? Forget the Marxist bullshit and the Maori activism; all you need do is price middle income working people out of the housing market and you’ll get your way.
  
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  May 29, 2024 10:12am
  - miltonF
    
    Artificial reduction in supply of housing also has the effect of restricting population growth. Can’t afford to have kids when you have a $1mill mortgage.
    
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    May 29, 2024 5:17pm
Tasman devil

The award for headline of the year to date goes to Stuff today:

“Naked passenger causes Vifgin flight to turn
around.”
8 1
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May 29, 2024 10:20am
HalfFull

Wondered if Te Pati Māori are getting pissy because someone has reduced expenses ie line by line cuts in government expenditure therefore reducing/emptying the money trains for some ?
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May 29, 2024 10:25am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  If only
  
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  May 29, 2024 8:54pm
NZer In Exile

Profound stuff that all NZers should be aware of.

The Leighton Smith Podcast: Muriel Newman on the danger to the governance of NZ, the Marine & Coastal Area Act, a common electoral role, media, radicalisation and its growth.

I posted this yesterday but with a link that turned out to only offer an app download on mobile browsers.

This link should show a play button for the episode on both desktop and mobile browsers.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/podcasts/the-leighton-smith-podcast/leighton-smith-podcast-240-may-22nd-2024-muriel-newman/
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May 29, 2024 10:42am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Māori Wards referenda: Submissions close today.
This is from an email, from Peter Williams – Taxpayer’s Union.

Because so much attention is on the Budget this week the Local Government (Electoral Legislation and Māori Wards and Māori Constituencies) Amendment Bill has caught us all on the hop.
The Select Committee only called for submissions on Friday. They set the deadline for midnight tonight.
Under Mahuta’s law (which is still in place), Mayors and Councillors have sole decision-making power on whether to introduce race-based wards. The proposed Bill would reintroduce the safeguard of local residents having the final decision making authority.
It’s simply not right that politicians should be able to set the rules for how they themselves are elected – that should be a right exercised by every one of us on equal terms. The last Government rushed through their changes to effectively screw the scrum and ensure Labour Party / left wing majorities on councils, up and down New Zealand.

https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/sub_maori_wards?
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May 29, 2024 10:46am
Im Right

I see The Daily Blog was hacked, was down for a day or so, Martyn is blaming…. Israel, the Chinese, the Russians, anyone he says he has put up critical posts about, some posts saying it’s National…ohh dear, TDB does not have the influence/popularity he believes it does.
Then has the begging bowl out for donations stating in effect ‘you missed us for one day, what if we were gone forever….gimme some money’, or words to that effect.
The thing about socialists/Marxists/communists, they bemoan capitalism but not very generous when it means they may have to make a donation to something leftist lol
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May 29, 2024 10:57am
Keith White

Lessee. The Maoris protesting the white supremacist colonial structures encumbering New Zealand are running around in that most supreme white-designed-and-manufactured* construction, the automobile, to protest via carkoi. It is to larf.

*Japan, India, South Korea etc are welcomed to the chat.
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May 29, 2024 11:00am
Maggy Wassilieff

Maori Population of NZ is 15.5%….. (not the 17-18% that has often been cited).

Those who identify as European or Pākehā make up 59.1 percent, Māori 15.5 percent, Pasifika 7.7 percent, people of Asian ethnicities 15.1 percent, and those from other backgrounds, including Middle Eastern, Latin American and African, make up 2.6 percent.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/518124/census-2023-data-what-the-first-results-reveal
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May 29, 2024 11:03am
- cmm
  
  There seems to have been an update in the last few minutes:
  
  “Those who identify as European or Pākehā make up 67.8 percent, Māori 17.8 percent, Pasifika 8.9 percent, people of Asian ethnicities 17.3 percent, and those from other backgrounds, including Middle Eastern, Latin American and African, make up 3 percent.”
  
  But these are still early numbers. The second phase of the census activity is “correcting” the data by using other methods.
  
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  May 29, 2024 12:07pm
  - Yabster
    
    hmm so that adds up to 114.8%……
    
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    May 29, 2024 12:26pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Wearing more than one pair of underpants at a time.
      
      6 0
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      May 29, 2024 12:48pm
      - Yabster
        
        I see some Maori organisation pushing the 1 in 5 20% stat of Maori descent- and how important Maori will be to the economy (cough cough -whose going to pay for the welfare, settlements etc) and eventually may become the majority – They seem to have overlooked the 68% European and:
        The difference between the proportion of Māori and those of Māori whakapapa is because not all people with Māori descent identified Māori as their primary ethnic background.
        
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        May 29, 2024 1:06pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    There seems to have been an update in the last few minutes:
    
    4 FUX SAKE… must be the new maths I neva lerned.
    
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    May 29, 2024 1:26pm
    - cmm
      
      It appears they only updated part of it – hence the 114% Yabster points out.
      
      RNZ… shudda stuck with radio eh?
      
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      May 29, 2024 2:40pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Grief…
    
    It’s changed again…..
    
    The data shows 19.6 per cent or 978,246 of the country’s population are of Māori descent, 12.5 per cent higher than 2018.
    
    https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/census-2023-results-new-zealand-s-population-growing-diversifying-and-ageing/
    
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    May 29, 2024 2:07pm
    - cmm
      
      Looks like it has changed again, again.
      Yup, previously they had said “almost 20%” which was stretching things with 15 or even 17%.
      
      At 19.6% that would make sense.
      
      We are certainly seeing a demographic skew in that:
      * More whites are leaving.
      * Maori breed more and younger, hence more young Maori.
      
      But also I expect that with all the incentives, more are now choosing to identify as Maori.
      
      4 1
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      May 29, 2024 2:43pm
      - julesnzuk
        
        There is no way 20% of the population are Maori. A good percentage of that figure will be Europeans with trace Maori heritage who choose to “identify” as Maori because it’s fashionable.
        
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        May 30, 2024 2:28am
- Paulus
  
  There is no accurate number for Maori as both recent Censuses gave us figures for the numbers who did do the figures, and both times it was very low so somebody is inventing these figures any and everyway.
  We are again being conned, as expected.
  It has been suggested that the next census be cancelled and the Statistics Department do the figures for all of us from now on.
  
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  May 29, 2024 1:10pm
- Red
  
  What are New Zealand Citizen Caucasians born in Samoa classified as?
  If Pasifika, then we all are.
  
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  May 29, 2024 11:13pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trumps address. He is calling them all out.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sports/other/tiffany-trump-stands-behind-her-father-as-he-addresses-corrupt-trial/vi-BB1ndxJI?
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May 29, 2024 11:06am
- virtualmark
  
  Interesting that Melania hasn’t ever attended the New York trial. Or any campaign events. And is very very rarely seen with Trump at all.
  
  WINO.
  
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  May 29, 2024 1:21pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Ivanka was also noticeable by her absence from the New York trial.
    
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    May 29, 2024 3:36pm
  - marcw
    
    Please tell us when we can see “Dr” Jill accompanying the POTUS again. MIA for the last 4 – 6 weeks. Maybe she has been cancelled after requesting that the charade ends.
    
    And btw, Melania was last seen attending her son’s graduation with past President Donald Trump about 2 weeks ago.
    
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    May 29, 2024 4:58pm
  - Country Air Ian.
    
    So what?
    
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    May 29, 2024 6:41pm
  - Red
    
    Does your Missus hang around with you, Virtual?
    
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    May 29, 2024 11:14pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The other week I replied to similar.
    If I paid a hooker and ended up in Court for something dodgy about that, I doubt my Partner or ex Wife would want to be there.
    
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    May 30, 2024 10:37am
I remember when

Daily Sceptic:
Food production in China is soaring, helped by slightly warmer temperatures and higher levels of carbon dioxide, while cows grazing on wetland pasture actually reduce emissions of the ‘greenhouse’ gas methane, partly by gobbling up decomposing, methane-emitting plants.
In a recently published paper lead by UCLA postdoctoral science researcher Di Chen, it was discovered that the “main factor” affecting China’s crop yields was the local air temperature change.
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May 29, 2024 11:07am
- cmm
  
  I expect it is also helped by massive increases in agricultural development.
  
  For example Fonterra has been setting up farms there and training people how to improve production.
  
  A few years I had a chat to a local sheep stud owner who sells top notch sperm to China. His poor rams were struggling to keep up.
  
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  May 29, 2024 4:19pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Traitors.
    
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    May 29, 2024 5:23pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Fonterra set up farms in China that they lacked the expertise to run profitably and cost shareholders hundreds of millions of dollars.
    We are not best in the world at CAFO operations.
    
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    May 29, 2024 6:44pm
Maggie Pie

Remains as one of the most horrific murders in the country 🙁

The question being asked now is….. should the Pathways Trust, with its link to murderer Joseph Brider, have their charitable status revoked?

https://odt.co.nz/star-news/star-christchurch/charitys-link-murderer-joseph-brider-revealed
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May 29, 2024 11:08am
- Red
  
  Pathways Trust should have put a 1 metre chain around Brider’s neck, he was that much of a risk.
  This level of incompetence is often seen among those who believe people can change.
  
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  May 29, 2024 11:25pm
I remember when

Police Inspector stated on TV last night, that the accident that resulted in 5 deaths yesterday shows the need for the actions they have been taking in conjunction with Waka Kotahi.
I presume the actions mentioned are the reduction of speed limits on hundreds of kilometres of NZ roads.
The statement seemed to infer that speed may be/was a factor in the accident.
If so, why did the accident occur, why did the speed reductions not prevent it?
Will further speed limit reductions prevent all future accidents of this sort (if speed was a major factor)?
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May 29, 2024 11:23am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Actually he did not call them by that name he said they were the actions of the NZTA…..small mercies but better.
  
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  May 29, 2024 11:56am
- kowtow
  
  Surely staying in lane matters.
  
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  May 29, 2024 1:28pm
- cmm
  
  I saw a report saying drugs and impairment were a major factor.
  
  Not much point in tightening the rules if the current rules are being broken.
  
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  May 29, 2024 2:45pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Is it OK for him to say that?
Now if I said the opposite, Mr Plod would be tapping me on the shoulder.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/is-that-ok-for-him-to-say-that-am-hosts-react-to-waititi-s-p%C4%81keh%C4%81-govt-comments/ar-BB1ndcnU?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/exclusive-government-doesn-t-fulfil-coalition-agreement-commitment-on-time-changes-timeframes.html
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May 29, 2024 11:45am
Bonez

A carkoi, just randomly throwing the letter C into Maori words now are we. FFS what a embarrassment TPM are.
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May 29, 2024 11:50am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/how-young-maori-are-being-radicalised/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W40WrWY6JzU

Languages, close eyes.
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May 29, 2024 11:50am
Maggie Pie

Very very sad to hear that ‘Smith & Caughey’
are closing down after more than a century 🙁

Nearly 300 jobs gone as well. Still, hardly surprising after 6 years of the Ardern lead government and succession of lefty Auckland Mayors.

Everyone knows Queen Street is totally f**ked.
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May 29, 2024 12:09pm
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  Another victim of AT’s draconian policies.
  
  Compounded by the surrender of the city centre to the destitute and disaffected drink and drug dependent denizens of deplorable depravity.
  
  I work just around the corner from the Smith and Caughey building in Auckland, and the presence of the City Mission adjacent to my workplace presents a never ending parade of the pathetic.
  
  Chuck in the presence of the orange plague of road cones and high vis vests to the convention centre and the CRL rail link building, and the attendant road works, the economic downturn and everything else, by the time the CRL is finished, there will be no retail of any value at the end of it!
  
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  May 29, 2024 12:29pm
- greybeard
  
  That is sad news: I remember when it opened.
  
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  May 29, 2024 12:35pm
- AitchW
  
  Queen St is truly horrible. A proliferation of noodle shops, $2 shops and a handful of banks and expensive retail. While it’s sad to S&C closing one does wonder whether it was past its use by date.
  Victoria St in Hamilton has gone the same way. Retailers moving in large numbers to the malls with lots of free parking, why would you want to visit the cbd with its homeless and hopeless cluttering the footpaths?
  
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  May 29, 2024 12:44pm
  - greybeard
    
    I lived in Auckland from 1967 to 1971: in those days Queen Street was a fantastic place , especially on Fridays.
    From lunchtime Friday until the wee small hours Queen Street would be seething with people: out on the strut, shopping, boozing, eating.
    And dressed up ! No beggars, no thugs, just heaps of people having a great time.
    
    Then on Saturday night all the young ones went to the dance halls, several of them around the top of Symonds St. ( Oriental Ballroom & Orange Ballroom ).
    Famous name such as Phil Warren , and Herma Keil & the Keil Isles .
    These were great places for meeting girls, and were probably the equivalent of today’s dating apps.
    
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    May 29, 2024 3:53pm
- virtualmark
  
  Don’t know why they didn’t abandon that location years ago in favour of, say, Newmarket or Downtown/Commercial Bay.
  
  I wonder if they’d have done okay in a mall like Westfield Newmarket.
  
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  May 29, 2024 1:23pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The thee/four times I have been in Smith & Caughey, I have been totally ignored by the staff.
  
  Now, I know I don’t dress upmarket, and I don’t have gold trinkets dripping off my appendages, but I don’t enter places like S&C unless I need to purchase something I have the $$$$$$ for.
  
  Much easier to fly over to Melbourne and spend my loot in the Ozzie economy I’ve discovered.
  
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  May 29, 2024 1:50pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    It helps if the staff recognise you of course. I’d often cut thru from Elliot to Queen Street if it was raining. You almost get sick of having to return the nods and smiles to everyone.
    
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    May 29, 2024 2:38pm
    - cmm
      
      I’d think you’d be more sick of stepping over piss-soaked degenerates in all the doorways.
      
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      May 29, 2024 2:47pm
- Scooter
  
  COVID and Cindy the gifts that keep on giving.
  
  * The upmarket department store has battled a 40 per cent drop in revenue in past 5 years
  
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  May 29, 2024 4:35pm
- waikatosinger
  
  Endless fitness supplement shops. What’s up with that?
  
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  May 29, 2024 10:06pm
- Red
  
  Queen St f**ked, Parnell evolving, wonder who Smith & Caughey’s Landlord is, they won’t be filling that vacancy easily. This plan of placing destitutes into City Centres really is a retrograde idea by any measure.
  
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  May 29, 2024 11:36pm
Tauhei Notts

People that I know that have met Chloe Swarbrick have spoken what a fine young woman she is particularly when she is away from the news media.
If any readers know Chloe you may care to get her a $5 win ticket on Pukekohe race 2 #9 this Saturday.
I think “Sweet But Psycho” was named after her.
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May 29, 2024 12:26pm
- kowtow
  
  Having watched the Ani O’Brien video of her at the pro Hamas protest in Auckland , I reckon she’s seriously deranged , definitely dangerous and demonstrably anti democratic.
  
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  May 29, 2024 1:32pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Megan Kelly baits Bill Maher.
He is fed up with the woke left but he has severe TDS.
“As soon as they hear Trump’s name, they convulse and froth at the mouth.”

https://pantsonfirenews.com/megyn-kelly-exposed-bill-mahers-over-the-top-trump-derangement-syndrome-in-one-fiery-exchange/?
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May 29, 2024 12:37pm
sungsamning

https://redstate.com/bobhoge/2024/05/26/back-to-the-future-75m-set-aside-for-chicago-security-as-70-groups-pledge-to-join-march-on-dnc-n2174681
Déjà Vu? $75M Set Aside for Security As 70 Groups Pledge to March on Chicago DNC Convention.
Are we soon to witness 1968 all over again, where violence wracked the Chicago Democratic National Convention in the lead-up to the November presidential vote?
Many pundits have predicted exactly that, taking into account the George Floyd riots in the summer of 2020 and the ongoing pro-Hamas demonstrations roiling campuses across the nation. [A repeat of 1968. What would the downside be? -;)]
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May 29, 2024 12:38pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXm9KkEGjC4
Physics 1 Rocket Man 0.
Just hours after the leaders of South Korea, Japan and China held a trilateral summit in Seoul, North Korea’s attempt to put what would have been its second spy satellite into orbit, resulted in failure.
The North was quick to admit that the rocket exploded.
Bae Eun-ji starts us off. [He’ll need some more Scotch and Emmenthal to cheer himself up. -;)]
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May 29, 2024 12:38pm
MCōs

I see Smith & Caughey’s is closing down
They’ve been around for 144yrs, but now have gone the way of DIC and Kirkcaldie & Staines in Wellington
One establishment that seems to have proliferating is Farmers, started in 1909
Unlike those other dinosaurs they have branches in shopping malls, which means they’re right where the people are
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May 29, 2024 12:44pm
- Inandout
  
  In the 1970s I knew one of the S&C staff who worked in the Newmarket branch and he said they were ideal employers and so trusting. The down side of course was the pilering by some staff.
  
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  May 29, 2024 1:04pm
Chuck Bird

Did anyone else see the special on Sky Aust with former treasurer Josh Frydenberg who is Jewish? The Jew hatred in shocking in Oz.
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May 29, 2024 12:50pm
- MCōs
  
  Anti semitism is always bubbling below the surface throughout Europe, America and down our way
  There used to be one or two examples on this forum before Covid and moderators came along
  
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  May 29, 2024 1:03pm
  - Mike
    
    Who was the guy who was always going on about the ‘real Jews’ and the ‘fake Jews’?
    
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    May 29, 2024 5:12pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  FYI
  
  Anthony Albanese not backing up words with actions to stop antisemitism: Frydenberg
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWhLkTfmt58
  
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  May 29, 2024 2:17pm
Maggie Pie

I wonder how many people here wake up every day and wonder what Clint Smith thinks about the Coalition?

https://x.com/ClintVSmith/status/1795380691598970911

My fave comment….’must be hard being Mr Irrelevant’ LOL!
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May 29, 2024 1:12pm
slightlyrighty

https://www.ensemblemagazine.co.nz/articles/right-conservative-dress-sense?utm_source=stuffurl

Imagine if a similar article was written about how Ardern dressed?
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May 29, 2024 1:28pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  The coalition look smart and well dressed.
  
  Look at the collection of outfits from the scran bag in Labour/Greens and TPM. They look like a poorly dressed rabble.
  
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  May 29, 2024 2:38pm
- graham
  
  I can only wonder what they would have to say about the dress sense of (a) the Greens; or (b) the Maori Party …
  
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  May 29, 2024 2:42pm
- julesnzuk
  
  They lost me at “Aoteoroa”. Bit difficult to take anyone seriously when they can’t even get the name of the country right.
  
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  May 30, 2024 2:40am
Close Hen Counters

As well as the Maori strike/protest tomorrow, the country’s junior doctors who belong to the RDA union are striking for 48 hours – this is a deliberate attempt to cause as much disruption as possible before the public holiday weekend. Unless there is life or limb issue, please avoid all public hospitals 🙁
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May 29, 2024 1:54pm
- MCōs
  
  I always avoid public hospitals, but sometimes they don’t avoid me!
  
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  May 29, 2024 2:48pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    This inversion often works as a play on words but here it doesn’t. Just WTH do you mean.
    
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    May 29, 2024 5:28pm
    - MCōs
      
      If one needs chemo or busts a femur hospital beckons
      
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      May 29, 2024 6:54pm
Surely Knott

First census results are out and almost 20% are Maori. An increase of 12%.

But they record Albert-Eden local board as -2% Maori. How can you be -2% Maori population?!

Nearly 1/3 of young people under 25 are Maori.

Can’t wait to see what the gender non-binary stats are for those under 25.
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May 29, 2024 2:22pm
- cmm
  
  ” How can you be -2% Maori population?!”
  That will be -2% compared with the previous census, just like the 12% is 12% up on the previous census.
  
  When only 20% of the population are generating 33% of the young people, then you know what the future is going to look like.
  
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  May 29, 2024 2:51pm
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    I am pretty sure that a large percentage of the increase is due to intermarriage and thus children with a relatively small proportion of Maori ancestry ticking the Maori box on the census.
    
    In my experience people with one quarter or more Maori ancestry are likely to identify Maori as their predominant ancestry. They obviously are aware of their other inheritances, but identity is not just a matter of percentages. It is also the lived experience and what is most important to them.
    
    Conversely those with less than one quarter Maori are much less likely to identify as predominantly Maori. Yes, they are fully aware of their Maori ancestry, but they don’t identify as Maori. On the basis of all the reporting, I would put David Seymour into this category. But maybe I am wrong. Perhaps he does identify as predominantly Maori, while being well aware of his other inheritances.
    
    This is just my observations. It is up to each person to make their own assessment on how they identify themselves, though it has to be based on some reality. A person with no Maori ancestry can’t legally identify as Maori and couldn’t legally tick the relevant census box.
    
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    May 29, 2024 4:39pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  The accuracy of the NZ Census is questionable given their inability to bring it together in a cohesive way. I’d go as far as to suggest that some of the stats will have been extrapolated to fill the voids and the narrative of the last gumbootment….
  
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  May 29, 2024 3:25pm
  - kowtow
    
    They’ve admitted as much.
    
    They’re literally making it up , in regards to certain populations……..
    
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    May 29, 2024 6:48pm
- miltonF
  
  The whole country is going to be “Māori” eventually. That’s what happens when you use a “one drop” definition of ethnicity.
  
  Back in reality, Maori DNA is being slowly being diluted through interbreeding, and immigration is driving Maori numbers to a smaller and smaller percentage of the total population.
  
  To say the Maori population has increased as a total percentage of the population, is in fact a lie. It’s only that more people are “identifying” as Māori, mainly due to the benefits on the table.
  
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  May 29, 2024 5:27pm
Maggie Pie

Overheard someone earlier asking if the vast majority of New Zealanders would give
a tinkers cuss if TPM or the Greens never even existed.

And to be fair, what do EITHER of them contribute to society or the economy anyway?
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May 29, 2024 2:46pm
- gorse
  
  Trouble is, Maggie, if they ever are in a coalition with Labour and the Greens they would do a tremendous amount of damage. I believe that combination would bring about the destruction if New Zealand as a decent place to live.
  
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  May 29, 2024 5:43pm
- Damocles11
  
  But that party of co-governance who bankrupted New Zealand are ok I suppose? I refer to Labour, the party that screwed NZ. TPM wasn’t even part of the last wrecking ball government. Not sure why Labour gets a free pass. Not sure why people act like it’d be some different entity if Wille Jackson was leader….no, it’d be the same execrable party. One thing they can put on my headstone that will be absolutely true: ‘He Never Voted For Labour In His Life’.
  
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  May 29, 2024 7:58pm
  - julesnzuk
    
    Agreed – people are still under the illusion that Labour is like it was under MJ Savage, when it was about actual labour and public services. Not sure why people can’t see it for the neo Marxist organisation that it has been for some time now.
    
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    May 30, 2024 2:44am
Tauhei Notts

It was fun to watch Aussies cringe, several years ago.
I mentioned that we know a lot about Aussie culture as we never miss an episode of Cath and Kim.
Well, the roles are reversed.
Aussie’s channel 9 will screen Married at First Sight-New Zealand from next week.
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May 29, 2024 3:28pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350293341/first-australian-undergo-cryopreservation-now-ice-scientist-says-he-wont-come
How cool !
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May 29, 2024 3:35pm
Maggie Pie

See out of all the names being bandied about for Trumpy’s VP….. Nikki Hailey is still voters-choice on ‘X’

https://twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/1795495026795200880
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May 29, 2024 3:46pm
- Don Beckett
  
  If it’s a woman he choses as VP running mate, I’d say Tulsi Gabbard has the inside running.
  
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  May 29, 2024 4:42pm
  - sungsamning
    
    He’s ruled her out.
    
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    May 29, 2024 5:55pm
- Mike
  
  He’ll probably sell the VP nomination to raise some cash.
  
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  May 29, 2024 5:13pm
ecco

Deeply saddened to hear of the closing of smith and caughey. I enjoyed going to the cafe and also buying clothing from their store. They were up against a lot including those brutal Covid lockdowns and the rise of internet stores off shore.

I can’t help but think the totally inept stewardship of the former mayor Phil Goff (now nz high commissioner in London – go figure) has also contributed to the demise of smith and caughey greatly. There was absolutely no parking near smith and caughey and no special consideration given to trying to revive the Auckland cbd during his time overseeing the council.

Smith and caughey going will leave a large hole in the cbd which could be the tipping point on which the Auckland cbd may not be able to recover from.
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May 29, 2024 4:21pm
- MCōs
  
  Smith & Caughey’s hasn’t been able to adjust to the changing Auckland CBD in much the same way as formerly grand department elsewhere have fallen by the wayside
  
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  May 29, 2024 6:47pm
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    These are the factors that the Smith and Caughey spokesman. “He cited a range of factors that were largely outside the company’s control, including the economic downturn and a big drop in consumer confidence; the rise of shopping malls; upmarket brands building their own retail stores; Auckland CBD traffic, crime and safety issues, and a drop in pedestrians with many people still working from home.”
    
    They survived two world wars but couldn’t survive Robertson, Orr, Goff, AT and Coster.
    
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    May 29, 2024 6:59pm
    - MCōs
      
      The Farmers sell very much downmarket versions of the same stuff and are located in at least three Westfield Malls I can think of off the top of my head
      People still have to buy clothes and cheap kids toys seem to sell, even if they break a couple of days after the party.
      
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      May 29, 2024 10:17pm
  - kevn
    
    mcos… They probably own their site in Queen St. That would restrict shuffling around the malls.
    Most likely end up as top notch apartments.
    
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    May 29, 2024 7:23pm
MCōs

The population of greater London was estimated at 9,134mil in 1939
In 2019 it was 8.982mil
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May 29, 2024 5:20pm
- MCōs
  
  So pretty much the same eighty years later
  
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  May 29, 2024 5:26pm
  - fernglas
    
    In 1990 it was 6.775 million. What’s your point?
    
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    May 29, 2024 6:17pm
    - MCōs
      
      I thought the point was quite obvious
      London is the capital of the UK and the population doesn’t always increase. It fluctuates as does Wellington apparently
      
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      May 29, 2024 6:39pm
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  Gee, did anything really significant happen in London after 1939 that might have caused some sort of exodus?
  
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  May 29, 2024 6:50pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

How can Ngati Pakeha understand this?
Seems the New Zealand (not Aotearoa) Parliament allows a different language to be spoken in question time – a language that say 83% of NEW ZEALANDERS do not speak or comprehend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYYHiNUyL_w
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May 29, 2024 5:22pm
- Mike
  
  Steve, it’s quite widely known that English, Maori or NZ Sign Language can be used in parliament, with translation available.
  
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  May 29, 2024 5:26pm
  - cmm
    
    Yet another absolute waste of parliamentary time.
    
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    May 29, 2024 8:54pm
  - julesnzuk
    
    What an absolutely pointless waste of time. Even genuinely bi or multu-lingual countries (no, New Zealand isn’t one) tend to have one lingua franca for parliament.
    
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    May 30, 2024 2:50am
- mandk
  
  I don’t believe 17% of NZers speak or understand Maori.
  
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  May 29, 2024 6:59pm
- julesnzuk
  
  Steve, where did you get that 83% figure from? I’d say it is far closer to 98%. There is no way in hell that 17% of New Zealanders can speak Maori.
  
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  May 30, 2024 2:48am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Too late for something fun for old fullas?
Try this you poor old peoples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL0au17MypY
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May 29, 2024 5:51pm
Swifty

Have a watch of Jason Beer KC getting stuck into a flailing Post Office solicitor who has major memory failure….and admits to major incompetence:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctq29Cq9UjE

Beer has Maori whakapapa apparently.
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May 29, 2024 6:44pm
- kevn
  
  Swifty… Very good. Jason Beer KC is great.
  
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  May 29, 2024 7:54pm
Maggie Pie

I’ll just leave this here 😀 😀 😀

https://x.com/Kermys_Returned/status/1795700919335792897

Nighty Nite all
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May 29, 2024 7:49pm
- kevn
  
  Maggie… May hipkins be stuck in the TMP induced traffic jam all day.
  
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  May 29, 2024 7:56pm

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