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April 28, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 28 April 2024

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General Debate

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CJames

There is an interesting article in Daily Sceptic about the overdiagnosis of Autism and ADHD.
https://dailysceptic.org/2024/04/27/overdiagnosis-of-autism/
To quote the article “People on the waiting list report they want a formal diagnosis of ADHD or autism; they just want to know. However, reports say they are not looking for medical treatment, be it prescriptions or talking therapies; they’re looking for “validation and recognition”. I straight away thought of the behaviour of the Green co-leader, shopping around for a confirmatory diagnosis. Wanting to be “special”, rather than modifying her own behaviour. Think Saint Greta. Aspergers is now symptom de jour among the in-set to distinguish yourself from the plebs. You can excuse all types of just stupid behaviour with it.
Now in certain groups, Ritalin is the drug of choice. That must be of concern to an over-medicated society. The more worrying trend behind the overdiagnosis is that people see it as a badge of honour, flaunting their behaviour rather than learning self-control. It is also the background to many of the children being rushed into “gender affirmation” medication or surgery, rather than just accept that it is most likely a passing phase or they might be homosexual.
Just another link in the Western Worlds descent into chaos.
And to declare self-interest, this is from someone who gets well into the 40s on the standard AQ autism test https://www.wired.com/2001/12/aqtest/ but doesn’t have autism, Aspergers or take medication. Though I don’t think many engineers would get under 30 in the test. We are all weird.
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April 28, 2024 8:00am
- mikenmildagain
  
  We still have a very long way to go towards understanding the complicated conditions, There are many well-known diseases where diagnosis is difficult and can be long delayed, so ‘validation’ is important in many cases.
  
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  April 28, 2024 8:15am
  - CJames
    
    Autism/ Aspergers are NOT diseases. They are syndromes and may have a variety of causes, including pyschsomatic or even hysteria.
    
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    April 28, 2024 8:51am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      No need to shout – I didn’t say they were. I merely noted that diagnosis of diseases (or conditions or syndromes) can be very difficult. From that follows the difficulty of deciding on the best treatment and/or support.
      
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      April 28, 2024 9:09am
      - CJames
        
        Validation is just a euphemism for doctor shopping. Something the “worried well” do. And why our GPs are overloaded with all these patients coming in with screeds from Dr Google. We have created a society where we encourage neuroses and a culture of fear. Look at all the idiots still wearing Covid prevention masks everywhere.
        For many of those, the old treatment of taking cement pills is the best option.
        
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        April 28, 2024 10:12am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Ah, so many Kiwiblog commenters can be relied upon for sweeping, but misinformed, judgements on so many topics.
        
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        April 28, 2024 10:20am
      - CJames
        
        Milky – Pot meet kettle.
        
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        April 28, 2024 10:23am
      - AitchW
        
        Illy, rather than making sweeping allegations in a manner that sounds incredibly smug and patronising you could address some of these misinformed judgements. You know, actually play the ball rather than the man….
        
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        April 28, 2024 10:54am
  - Cassandra
    
    True, mike, but this has gone too far. Relatively minor behavioural quirks are now being treated as diseases and they are not. But some are and there’s the problem – when is medicine never? Routine prescription of Ritalin is not a solution.
    
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    April 28, 2024 9:07am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I don’t want to talk about AD/HD specifically, but this was a good interview yesterday about autism:
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018935977/how-to-tell-if-your-preschooler-is-autistic
      
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      April 28, 2024 9:59am
  - rouppe
    
    Oh, that word again… “Complex”. Whenever someone wants to avoid talking about specifics, the problem is always “complex”. Hear it every other day.
    
    And by the way, these people aren’t seeking a diagnosis of something they don’t know. They seeing a validation of their own diagnosis.
    
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    April 28, 2024 10:05am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Why do people down tick mike when he makes thoughtful and pertinent comments? Sure he trolls so down tick him then but otherwise I think it displays a certain amount of intolerance.
    
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    April 28, 2024 11:15am
    - kowtow
      
      You correctly identify him as a troll and then wonder why he gets downticked.
      
      I wonder why anyone engages it at all.
      
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      April 28, 2024 11:42am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        Kow-tow I only wonder why people down tick him when he makes a fair contribution. It’s ridiculous.
        
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        April 28, 2024 7:27pm
      - Ghost
        
        It’s a a group mentality. It’s a shame because Mike brings some good posts.
        
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        April 28, 2024 7:39pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      So rare though it its easier not to read his posts just downtick
      
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      April 28, 2024 12:00pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Ah, Stellaboxer, you have hit on one of the great conundrums of our time.
      
      In actual fact, the great mikenmildagain is not a troll. As I have pointed out several times before, DPF defines Trolling, here, https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/comments_policy, as “[…] an attempt to deliberately disrupt a conversation by being grossly offensive or massively off topic.”
      
      This is not what mikenmildagain does. In my opinion, he does what he has always said he does, that is, he has great fun — primarily at the expense of the many commenters at this blogsite who are rightwing(nut), self-important, know-alls. He deflates these and other commenters by employing both humour (often to hilarious effect) and his great knowledge of a wide range of subjects.
      
      All power to his sword, I say. It’s not his fault that many commenters can’t handle his devastating putdowns, ripostes, etc. Nor is it his fault that, as you point out, commenters here are unable to distinguish between his brilliant ‘piss-taking’, and his serious, knowledgeable, contributions to many of the varied exchanges that take place on Kiwiblog.
      
      To mikenmildagain, I say this: I’m so glad you’re back. Kiwiblog is a fun place again.
      
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      April 28, 2024 2:35pm
      - AitchW
        
        However, having said all of that, his propensity to post smug little insults is just boring.
        
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        April 28, 2024 4:32pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh Lordy….
  
  I only scored 9
  
  I must be a normie.
  
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  April 28, 2024 9:09am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    20, but still normal.
    
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    April 28, 2024 9:32am
  - cmm
    
    39. I’ll share some with you.
    
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    April 28, 2024 10:39am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      No thanks …. Hubby is a physicist/engineer…. ’nuff said.
      
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      April 28, 2024 11:07am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    I scored 23 “sperg” points. 🙃
    
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    April 28, 2024 4:03pm
- wisteria
  
  Many children are “diagnosed” as any one of the above syndromes when in actual fact they are not disciplined in their habits. A healthy home environment which demands good behaviour and teaches manners to its young people from an early age will overcome bad behaviour later. We make a lot of excuses when children should be encouraged to play with others outside and leave their devices until they are mature enough to cope with the pressures involved.
  
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  April 28, 2024 9:33am
  - cmm
    
    There is a huge difference between having some condition/syndrome and then dealing with it (ie. the behaviour).
    
    With enough thrashing and self policing any hyperactive child can learn to sit still.
    
    Ditto with Autism, dyslexia and many other conditions. If you are aware of them you can learn to compensate to an extent. If you want to.
    
    But to say that a condition is a result of insufficient discipline is pure bullshit.
    
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    April 28, 2024 10:56am
    - jkt
      
      But, most are!
      
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      April 28, 2024 11:34am
    - wsk12345
      
      My friends kid is high functioning autistic plus ADHD. My friend looks back and says that he was exactly like this as a kid – but certain behaviours that he did were just not acceptable and treated accordingly. He now behaves like a typical adult. Unfortunately his wife celebrates the kid being autistic, it gives her a sense of purpose being mother to a “disabled child” (yes she openly says this). Double celebrated when at 18, after being about as male as any kid I’ve known and never any sign of a female trait, he decides he’s a woman. Mum is thrilled. I suspect it’s nice for him to be celebrated by his peers rather than being that weird kid.
      
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      April 28, 2024 1:11pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Jordan Peterson often points out the role of the narcissistic mother in the creation of ‘special’ children. Often it is a way to deflect any feelings of parental responsibility/failure when children misbehave.
        
        He notes the probability of having a ‘special’ child at around 1 in 3000. Therefore, if a mother has 2 ‘special’ children then the probability of this is 1 in 9,000,000.
        
        There was an article recently in NZ news of a mother anti the review of ‘gender affirming healthcare’ aka experimental child mutilation via chemicals and surgery. Her now 17 year old had known they were ‘special’ since they were 8 years old and in her opinion had been saved by puberty blockers and HRT. Later in the article it was noted her other 24 year old child was now out as a non-binary person.
        
        JP says there is 1 in 8,999,999 probability that this mother has a mental illness. But here in NZ our media quote this person as if they are an expert, in their push to normalise the hysterical insane rise of these ‘special’ people.
        
        This is not written in hatred. Mentally ill people should get the appropriate support to deal with their illness not this sham that is currently being rammed along by activists.
        
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        April 28, 2024 2:53pm
- softail 1450
  
  CJJames ,That test proved one thing to me that my Mrs insists on , I’ve got the attention span of a chocolate fish as I lost interest after number 12, I’ve always thought I am stronger than many with my psychic powers and may have just realised I was doing very badly in that test and baled before setting myself up for an obsessive 2 weeks of thinking I may be ADHD positive ,Shit maybe I am 😳😳.
  
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  April 28, 2024 9:42am
  - jkt
    
    I checked your symptoms as reported. You are OK.
    
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    April 28, 2024 11:36am
    - softail 1450
      
      JKT ,damn I was just working out the best way of dishing out the sympathy card to my entire family.
      
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      April 28, 2024 3:01pm
      - jkt
        
        Go see ACC.
        
        I hear they hand out millions to thousands of people who suffered side effects from covid vaccinations.
        
        More than 1500 people received on average well over $5,000 each.
        
        Read it yesterday .. Chris Lynch, ACC, covid injuries, $9.6 million
        
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        April 28, 2024 8:56pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Can you provide a link and evidence to back up your assertions?
        ‘millions to thousands of people who suffered side effects from covid VACCINATIONS ‘ sounds extreme
        Please prove this.
        A Citation to a scientific study seems appropriate in the face of such a serious accusation
        Thanks
        Or are you lying and making shit up?
        
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        April 28, 2024 10:13pm
- Ghost
  
  I guess it can be said I shopped for a diagnosis. I would got to the ED with tachycardia. All the tests would find nothing wrong. Gp couldn’t work it out. Even got banned from the practise one day by the locum who said I was wasting her time. My gp came back, rung me up, having come across a specialist overseas he thought I had POTS. Ended up being correct.
  
  Now with autism, I do agree, it is over diagnosed, same as adhd, children being children being diagnosed with it. And as a disclosure I do have Aspergers, I don’t take medication, don’t see the point in medicating who I am
  
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  April 28, 2024 9:55am
  - Flossie
    
    Serious question. Please tell us how you know you have Aspergers?
    
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    April 28, 2024 10:14am
    - Ghost
      
      Gp sent to me a psychologist when my brother was killed. When the psychologist sent him a report my gp said it wasn’t a surprise he’d always suspected. Wasn’t a surprise to anyone
      
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      April 28, 2024 2:06pm
- imalwaysright
  
  These quirks are formalised by a medical diagnosis and are usually proudly announced as a badge of honour.
  Autism is seen as a sign of some deep intellectual ability that us mere mortals could never comprehend. The Rain Man syndrome .
  Unfortunately the intellectual prowess rarely materialises, mainly due to the fact that it doesn’t exist and the person is in fact a bit thick.
  Same with the AD/HD. The inference is that their mind operates at speeds we ordinary people could only dream about. Usually it materialises as the ability to talk gibberish and annoy anyone unfortunate enough to be near them.
  
  They are both of the ilk that declared themselves gluten free so that they could get special attention.
  
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  April 28, 2024 11:14am
  - Red Red Whine
    
    I am a parent of a child with Autism and ADHD the comments on here sadden me. Yes there will be those who milk their diagnosis to the max but this is not the case for everyone. My child struggles with both conditions as they counteract each other in their brain. Added to this they also have sensory processing disorder which makes everyday life that much harder. For us the diagnosis helped to understand the struggles our child was having particularly at school and socially and get the help they needed to cope. It’s been a long hard often lonely journey for us so please don’t dismiss the difficulties some people genuinely face the struggles are real.
    
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    April 28, 2024 8:45pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Please ignore ‘Imalwaysright’ as he is often wrong
      Good luck and take care of your child.
      I am sure your love and care will make a difference
      
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      April 28, 2024 9:40pm
- miltonF
  
  It’s funny you bring this up because it has been on my mind today. I feel like we are experiencing massive over-diagnosis in the health fields. I feel that there is a significant amount of people believing they have a certain condition, when they are actually healthy. There was an article in the news the other day about a man who thought he had stage 4 cancer. Had been on chemo for years and decided to give up treatment, only to find he became healthy and never had cancer. I think this kind of thing is much more common than we’d like to admit.
  
  I feel what is happening is that people have a lot of free floating anxiety which is being taken advantage of by media promoting constant stories of health woes. Fuelling an epidemic of hypochondria. The for profit health system is more than happy to oblige by performing unnecessary treatments. There is no clearer cut example than the trans industry.
  
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  April 28, 2024 2:52pm
- The Fifth Elephant
  
  When it comes to phenethylamine stimulants (Ritalin, Adderall, etc), I roll back the curtain and go full transhumanist.
  
  I have been prescribed methylphenidate (Ritalin) or amphetamine (Adderall) for the majority of my life. This is for ADHD, not autism or Ass Burgers (although I do have the latter).
  
  I think it is disgusting that, as a society, we limit the immense productivity gains from phenethylamines to only ADHD sufferers. If the general population could use these wonderful drugs, we would see an enormous increase in human flourishing, as people would get closer to realizing their true potential.
  
  It is also worth mentioning that “overprescription” of phenethylamines has recently become a topic of conversation in the US and A due to ludicrous state control over production. CJ Ciaramella has recently written a banger of a piece for Reason about this: https://reason.com/2024/04/23/it-took-me-months-to-get-the-adhd-meds-the-dea-says-are-overprescribed/.
  
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  April 28, 2024 4:22pm
Chuck Bird

Q + A this morning has Jack Tame interview, James Shaw. What is the bet that Tame does not interrupt Shaw even once?
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April 28, 2024 8:09am
- softail 1450
  
  Chuck Bird ,A lot of people wish Mrs Tame had rudely interrupted Mr Tame about 45 years ago including myself ,in Jacks mind he is the super TV interviewer that NZ needed when Paul Holmes shuffled off but unfortunately he has never attained the wit or the wisdom of Mr Holmes.
  
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  April 28, 2024 8:21am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Yep, I’m very much looking forward to Tame grilling Shaw on why environmentalism in aotearoa has to be obsessed with intersectionalities, identity politics, perpetual outrage and communism
  
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  April 28, 2024 8:24am
- Cassandra
  
  And what is the point? Failed Green claims to have saved the world?
  
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  April 28, 2024 9:08am
- jkt
  
  “Just answer my question! Yes … or … No?”
  “Just answer my question!”
  
  Jack Tame is a genius, right!
  
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  April 28, 2024 9:33am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Purple tie. Purple is the madman’s colour, or so a crazy Chinese/Russian artist once told me.
  
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  April 28, 2024 9:34am
  - RichardX
    
    Stop listening to crazy people.
    
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    April 28, 2024 1:30pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Feminists seem to like purple.
    
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    April 28, 2024 4:07pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  Tame did as I thought he would being a fellow Green supporter.
  
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  April 28, 2024 10:08am
  - jkt
    
    What a surprise 😳.
    Jack Tame is emphatically balanced in his journalistic approach. “Answer my question! Yes … or … no? Answer me!” Paraphrased.
    Me, me, me ….. look at me! Please respect my privacy!
    
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    April 28, 2024 11:47am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Does anyone know the details of Shaw’s degrees?
  
  I wonder how he got a Masters without a Bachelor’s.
  Would not the Uni that gave him a masters not ask to see his BA degree?
  
  It is possible that he told them he misplaced it and then stalled them about a delay in getting his degree from Victoria?
  
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  April 28, 2024 10:24am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yeah that horse is dead.
    
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    April 28, 2024 10:26am
  - Taieri
    
    I wonder how he got a Masters without a Bachelor’s.
    ————
    
    I’ve got 2 masters’ degrees and no bachelor’s degree, so it is possible.
    
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    April 28, 2024 1:14pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I’m just watching it. It is a surprisingly good interview.
  
  He is unequivocal that he personally would have considered going into government with National.
  
  Politicians on the way out tend to be more open in interviews. They have nothing to lose.
  
  So despite not having much time for his policies, it is a watchable interview.
  
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  April 28, 2024 10:31am
  - Paulus
    
    Presumably Shaw is waiting to be invited by the Coalition to take on the Save the World role in Christchurch, soon to be vacant.
    
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    April 28, 2024 11:04am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I think he’s set his cap for Rod Carr’s position as Chair of the Climate Change Commission.
      
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      April 28, 2024 11:43am
      - jkt
        
        I think you may very well be right I your analysis. He is well qualified. Ha, ha.
        
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        April 28, 2024 11:50am
  - Damocles11
    
    He says he would have considered going into coalition with National because he knows Luxon is listening. Shaw is an intelligent charlatan seeking to ingratiate himself with a certain ‘talent spotting CEO’.
    
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    April 28, 2024 8:40pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  I won’t be watching to find out mainly because I’m not particularly interested in anything Shaw has to say, unless it were a confession to lying about qualifications maybe, and secondly I have invested in a rather nice new tv and Jack Tame is liable to jeopardise its operating status lol.
  
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  April 28, 2024 11:22am
- Chuck Bird
  
  I have commented there and my comments are still up. I hope others comment.
  
  James Shaw: Why I nearly resigned as Climate Change Minister | Q+A 2024
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysZ-PhAvwjs
  
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  April 28, 2024 1:56pm
Bridgenag

Ten (10) Ways Science is Being Attacked
There are more, but this is the condensed version…
1- Using Consensus to imply Correctness
2- Using Peer Review to imply Accuracy
3- Using Scientists to imply Scientificness
4- Using Computer Models to imply Reality
5- Using Correlation to imply Causality
6- Using Selective Data to imply Actuality
7- Using PP to imply Reasonableness
8- Using Engineering to Replace Science
9- Misusing words, like “Theory”
10- Adjusting the Raw Data, to Support Political or Economic Agendas…

https://open.substack.com/pub/criticallythinking/p/ten-10-ways-science-is-being-attacked?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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April 28, 2024 8:10am
- Philview
  
  A good dose of cash helps as well. I saw a headline the other about Chinese money buying influence in British Universities. I say with sarcasm thank goodness that doesn’t happen here in New Zealand.
  
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  April 28, 2024 8:44am
  - kowtow
    
    And Gulf money ( and many others) to the tune of billions to US universities.
    
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    April 28, 2024 9:48am
  - cmm
    
    Chinese money might be buying influence in universities, but access to state funding buys influence too.
    
    Stand up against “Maori science” and see how long your career lasts.
    
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    April 28, 2024 11:00am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      “Stand up against “Maori science” and see how long your career lasts.”
      
      Which is an indication you are now truly living in a dangerous mental asylum and should probably “just get the F away” as Scott Adams would say.
      
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      April 28, 2024 1:55pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  Spot on. I believe it started with “global warming “ and the realisation that it could generate money and could be used to hang socialism on. Not necessarily by the same people.
  
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  April 28, 2024 11:26am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Don’t forget to add the incentive of allegedly “green” virtue signalling to that mass-insanity phenomena.
    
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    April 28, 2024 1:58pm
- jonno1
  
  #8 seemed back to front, until I realised that by ‘Engineering’ they actually meant ‘Political science’. For some reason I rate engineers above scientists. Perhaps because I’m an engineer!
  
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  April 28, 2024 12:08pm
  - CJames
    
    I agree with you – I chased through the links and it appears that “Engineering” means Social Engineering – The 2+2=5, truthiness and your lived truth stuff.
    
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    April 28, 2024 2:04pm
  - JohnRidd
    
    I like both engineering and science but what is being portrayed as “Science”, isn’t,
    
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    April 28, 2024 7:25pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  The first point is a total furphy. There never was consensus – presumably referring to the “97% of scientists who agree that man-made climate-change is real.”
  
  Never happened, never will.
  
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  April 28, 2024 3:57pm
Flossie

A “rugby legend” and a TVNZ reporter are engaged. Well congratulations to the pair of them, and I hope they have a wonderful life together.
I don’t have a clue who they are and I wonder why this is front page news in national newspaper.
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April 28, 2024 8:10am
- AitchW
  
  Click bait?
  
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  April 28, 2024 10:58am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  yeah saw that, no idea who either is, couldn’t care less, didn’t click to find out…
  
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  April 28, 2024 2:08pm
- softail 1450
  
  Flossie ,Maybe old Joe Biden is getting hitched to Tova ,he swears he was an All Black back in the 50s and he’s partial to pre pubescent girls ,it could be??
  
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  April 28, 2024 3:11pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  I simply wonder why anyone, let alone anyone with a functioning brain, is in the slightest bit interested in what tomorrow’s fish and chip wrappers are lying about now.
  
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  April 28, 2024 3:58pm
Scott

In another example of history repeating, anti semetic protestors at Columbia university have stopped Jews attending campus because of hostile attacks and the university being unable to guarantee their safety.

This has happened before of course. In 1938 the Nazis blocked Jews from entering the University of Vienna.
https://twitter.com/blakeflayton/status/1782270564289368290?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1782270564289368290%7Ctwgr%5Ed4c3da0e38034c374609f984cdba06d32997bc46%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.powerlineblog.com%2Farchives%2F2024%2F04%2Fwhat-weve-got-here-2.php

I would say this is a bad look but given the support Hamas has had from students even after October 7th maybe they’re just not concerned about public relations?

What I can say is that the authorities need to sort this out. These students are acting like modern day Hitler Youth. How is this acceptable?
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April 28, 2024 8:12am
- Stellaboxer
  
  I saw the funniest thing yesterday. I was driving through Featherston on my way to give the dogs an outing at Ocean Beach and past five or six protesters brandishing Palestinian flags and slogans in the high street. Who exactly are they protesting to? They’re in a backwater of a backwater of a backwater even if the PM drove past it would count for zero there is nothing he or anyone else in lil ole NZ could do to influence in even the smallest way what is happening thousands of miles away in the northern hemisphere. Now tell me that these dyed haired malcontents are not just joining in the latest “thing”. Yesterday it was trans rights the day before that it was the Ukrainian war before that they were breathless about a climate crisis and of course one jab for summer. What a pathetic bunch of people running from one hysteria to the next, what empty lives they must have. They could of course do volunteer work for local charities or help replant wetlands in the area and such like but I guess no one would see them and their pitiful egos wouldn’t get enough strokes.
  
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  April 28, 2024 11:43am
  - Bridgenag
    
    They are probably being paid
    
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    April 28, 2024 12:05pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      They are probably autistic, dislexic, ADHD, narcisistic, low IQ, self absorbed & drugged up on dope.
      
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      April 28, 2024 1:15pm
  - Taieri
    
    what empty lives they must have.
    ———–
    
    Their lives are not empty. They are filled with protesting.
    
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    April 28, 2024 1:16pm
    - Stellaboxer
      
      Absolutely Taieri my point exactly
      
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      April 28, 2024 7:34pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Ah, bless, its the local sheltered workshop’s day off!
    
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    April 28, 2024 2:09pm
  - Che Guava
    
    Why would you think that because the “dyed haired malcontents” were wrong about Ukraine they are therefore wrong about Palestine?
    
    In fact, to be wrong about being pro-Ukraine (an affair deeply tied to advancing significantly Jewish interests) and to be right about being pro-Palestine (an affair deeply tied to damaging Jewish interests) is on these bases perfectly consistent, even if the dyed haired malcontents probably don’t perceive the common thread.
    
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    April 28, 2024 2:35pm
    - AitchW
      
      How is supporting Ukraine tied to advancing Jewish interests?
      
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      April 28, 2024 4:36pm
  - softail 1450
    
    Stellaboxer, seriously it’s all they’ve got in their pathetic mind numbing lives, give them a break (preferably just below their kneecaps).
    
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    April 28, 2024 3:15pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    I went for a walk in the hills on the outskirts of Melbourne a few weeks back. There were a couple of middle eastern guys with Pally flags on poles and the usual keffiyah scarves walking up the track. Wish they wouldn’t bring this crap with them when they emigrate to Aus. It produces nothing good.
    
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    April 29, 2024 4:14pm
- Che Guava
  
  Why should anyone expect their safety to be “guaranteed”? Isn’t the usual rationale for cancelling events due to pressure or protests the authorities “can’t guarantee” the safety of attendees?
  
  On this logic, you’s have to agree for consistency’s sack nobody can protest anything at all if someone claims that their safety isn’t guaranteed.
  
  If Israel students feel unsafe, it can be traced back to the motivation of the protests, which isn’t irrational Jew hatred, but reasonable rational conclusions drawn about the moral characteristics of Israel’s actions in Gaza. If they feel unsafe, maybe they should ultimately blame Israel’s government (which many or most likely support),not the authorities of US universities.
  
  The authorities don’t actually care so much about Jewish students feeling uncomfortable due to these protests, the real reason they want to shut them down is because the anti-Israel sentiment can and will spread, and this will threaten the Israeli’s seemingly endless supply of money, weapons and diplomatic aid that guarantees their ability to run roughshod over the rest of the Middle East.
  
  The “danger” here for the Israel lobby is that if the movement grows, US politicians will face mounting public pressure to reduce, or to stop, their support for a foreign nation.
  
  In reality, public opinion is irrelevant, so the most likely eventuality is that the aid won’t be reduced or stopped, but what this will expose is that Israel’s interests always come before whatever the US public may want or think, such is the hold exerted on America by Israel.
  
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  April 28, 2024 11:46am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    There is a degree of safety that people should be able to enjoy such as walking the streets and not being beaten up is a reasonable expectation in a civil society. Nobody ever has their safety guaranteed and I’m not sure anyone is asking for a guarantee. Your inability to separate people of Jewish ethnicity from the actions of the State of Israel and those that support it illiterates quite nicely the rationale of the anti Semite’s now crawling out of the woodwork.
    
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    April 28, 2024 12:24pm
    - Che Guava
      
      “Your inability to separate people of Jewish ethnicity from the actions of the State of Israel and those that support it…”
      
      I don’t have any inability to make this separation, but in practice, there seems to be little separation as a matter of fact. The evident facts are that most Jews tend to support Israel to a greater or lesser degree, so it follows that most Jews tend to support the actions the Israeli government takes in advancing the collective interests of Jews and the aims of Israelis.
      
      Whether “left” or “right” politically, it is the default common position for most of the Jews who make their views known that Israel is the State of the Jews, and therefore Jews have an obligation to support Israel. No doubt plenty of Jews don’t support Israel, but the former typically repudiate these Jews as suffering from a self-hatred and a confusion about where their ethnic loyalties should lie.
      
      “…the anti Semite’s now crawling out of the woodwork.”
      
      Couldn’t resist could you? You almost made it through an entire comment without saying anything irrational, but not quite. This disingenuous cheap shot is not only silly, but to fall back on the idea that any criticism or non-conformity with the expected views towards Jews and Israel cannot be a rational position, and must instead be indicative of nefarious views or aims of the dissenter, shows how weak the expected views really are.
      
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      April 28, 2024 2:20pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Che, unfortunately you have fallen in the trap of assumption.>
        
        The evident facts are that most Jews tend to support Israel to a greater or lesser degree, so it follows that most Jews tend to support the actions the Israeli government
        
        Its provable that Jews like say Kiwis or yanks support their country but DO NOT support their Governments (Kiwis strongly did not support Jacindas lot at the end before she fled,) Yanks don’t support sleepy Jo and many Jews do not support Netanyahu’s mob
        
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        April 28, 2024 6:16pm
    - Beach Haven expat
      
      That inability is demonstrated by saying “If Israel students” rather than Jewish. Before then launching into the latest Dollar Store Mein Kampf rhetoric.
      
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      April 29, 2024 5:18pm
- MCōs
  
  Back in the 20s or 30s Ivy League universities in the States used to have quotas on enrollments of Jewish students
  
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  April 28, 2024 12:19pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Yes and a certain Mr A Hitler was man of the year according to Time Magazine.
    
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    April 28, 2024 2:01pm
    - Che Guava
      
      In January 1939, for the year 1938. That’s a full six years of rule. Doesn’t seem to align with the popular contemporary claims that the Nazis went on a rampage of hate and oppression from the moment they took power in 1933. The popular opinion about Hitler in 1939 from 1939 is probably more accurate than the popular opinion about Hitler in 1939 from 2024.
      
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      April 28, 2024 2:27pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Okily Dokily!
        
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        April 28, 2024 4:09pm
      - Beach Haven expat
        
        So finally we get from crass anti-Semitism to full-on Hitler defender and fan-boy.
        
        People in 2024 are apparently wrong about Hitler. Cuckoo!
        
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        April 29, 2024 5:19pm
    - MCōs
      
      Time chose all manner of rogues down through the years. Not because of the good they did, but because of the impact they made.
      Stalin a couple of times plus some other Soviet leaders. Putin
      
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      April 28, 2024 5:03pm
      - Che Guava
        
        Putin is also a great leader.
        
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        April 28, 2024 6:24pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  They’re just following orders.
  
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  April 28, 2024 4:15pm
emmess

All the points, I agree with apart from that, I am not sure what is meant by point 8.
Can anybody elaborate?
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April 28, 2024 8:27am
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  I don’t understand that either. It’s a direct copy from the link. Have to surmise that the writer’s definition of engineering is at odds with ours.
  
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  April 28, 2024 10:10am
  - jkt
    
    Engineering demonstrates the usefulness of science.
    If the science works the science was good.
    If the science fails the engineer goes to jail.
    
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    April 28, 2024 11:54am
- cmm
  
  Engineering and Science are different – or at least supposed to be.
  
  Engineering is pursuing information for a practical end. You only need to understand underlying principles enough to do the task at hand.
  
  Science is (or should be) impartially following the data wherever it takes you. In “pure” science there are no goals.
  
  As an example consider gravity:
  * All the engineer cares about is whether gravity will cause the bridge to fall down. The engineer does not care what causes gravity – just its characteristics and effects on the problem at hand.
  * The scientist, on the other hand will wonder what causes gravity. Is it warped space time? Is it some quantum physics particle? etc etc. Whatever the answer there is another question behind it. This is science: the quest for understanding whether it is of direct use or not.
  
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  April 28, 2024 11:09am
  - Taieri
    
    The engineer does not care what causes gravity – just its characteristics and effects on the problem at hand.
    —————-
    
    Engineering is built on science, so an engineer does care about what causes gravity.
    
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    April 28, 2024 1:19pm
  - CJames
    
    I agree with Tairei – real engineering is applied physics – making the hard sciences work in the real world.
    
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    April 28, 2024 3:05pm
    - jonno1
      
      Yes, it’s applied physics, or alternatively applied science. Hence the solution to an engineering problem can be deduced approximately using first principles, or basic science. Engineers commonly use this as a sanity-check on their calculated result. Technicians and builders often do something similar based on experience, but can overlook some miunderstood factor.
      
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      April 28, 2024 10:46pm
Chuck Bird

This does not look good for Israel.

What we know about the mass graves found at Gaza hospitals • FRANCE 24 English

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuUjE812HYk
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April 28, 2024 8:30am
- kowtow
  
  France needs to spend more time reporting how it allows tens of thousands of illegal immigrants to cross the Channel.
  
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  April 28, 2024 8:43am
  - Paulus
    
    It appears that illegal Immigrants into the UK are m
    now going to Ireland (EC of course) via Northern Ireland, so that they cannot be transported anywhere if caught in the UK.
    
    7 2
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    April 28, 2024 11:10am
    - kowtow
      
      The Irish pm says he’ll deport them to the UK .
      
      But seeing as they came illegally from a fellow EU state , France ,to Britain , surely that’s where ,legally they should be deported to.
      
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      April 28, 2024 11:47am
  - Che Guava
    
    Focus on the matter at hand, which is the IDF mass graves.
    
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    April 28, 2024 11:12am
    - Don Beckett
      
      ‘Hamas’ mass graves. Fixed it for you.
      
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      April 28, 2024 1:18pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Kowtoe? trying to redpill? gaslight? distract whatever the term is from Chucks comment?
    
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    April 28, 2024 6:20pm
- CJames
  
  If they are the mass graves that were reported months ago, satellite and drone photos show they were dug before the invasion of Gaza. Just the latest round of Hamas disinformation sucking in gullible westerners and closet anti-semites. Or maybe they were used to bury the 500 killed by the Israeli bomb in the hospital carpark. What happened to those bodies?
  
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  April 28, 2024 8:55am
  - Inandout
    
    CJ, this calls for yet another Columbia Uni demo.
    
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    April 28, 2024 9:06am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Sounds like you would support an independent international investigation then.
    
    7 18
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    April 28, 2024 9:19am
    - Jethrod
      
      Like you would support the UN doing it then?
      
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      April 28, 2024 9:29am
    - MCōs
      
      If Jesus Christ came down from heaven and did an independent investigation nobody would believe him
      
      8 4
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      April 28, 2024 9:37am
      - kowtow
        
        The Nazarene would not be seen as independant , not by the Arab or leftist or student union type as he was Jewish .
        
        They’d call for him to be banned from any discussion as he would be causing stress in their safe space and he should go home to Europe as he’s yet another manifestation of colonial settlerism.
        
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        April 28, 2024 9:52am
    - CJames
      
      Independent and Hamas are an oxymoron.
      
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      April 28, 2024 9:54am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Did I mention Hamas? Why are you deliberately misinterpreting my comments?
        
        5 16
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        April 28, 2024 10:22am
      - CJames
        
        No Milky – everything that comes out of Gaza is Hamas controlled – that includes all the aid agencies and news reporters. There is no separation. Until Hamas is gone, there will be no change.
        
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        April 28, 2024 10:28am
      - Che Guava
        
        “Did I mention Hamas? Why are you deliberately misinterpreting my comments?”
        
        Because their arguments are so weak that they couldn’t survive without dishonesty, misrepresentation, obfuscation and, or course, name-calling.
        
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        April 28, 2024 11:10am
      - jkt
        
        Self characterisation.
        Well done Che, there is hope for you …. awareness is a journey. Small steps….
        I am proud of you.
        
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        April 28, 2024 12:01pm
      - Che Guava
        
        jkt
        Be specific: what have I said that you disagree with and why am I wrong?
        
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        April 28, 2024 12:44pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Milky: “Why are you deliberately misinterpreting my comments?”
        
        Ah, that’s a classic!
        
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        April 28, 2024 2:03pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I am generally pro-Israel. However, I do not believe that Israel can do no wrong.
    
    16 4
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    April 28, 2024 10:06am
    - kowtow
      
      CB
      
      It’s a war. I’ve read somewhere that bad things happen in wars.
      
      Put the blame where it belongs .Blame the very evil people who started this .
      
      The Mad Mullahs in Tehran.And their literally apocalyptic vision of the end times.
      
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      April 28, 2024 11:50am
      - MCōs
        
        In 1934 many Jewish people emigrated from Germany to Palestine because their lives were being made intolerably under the Hitler dictatorship
        Maybe today’s problems can be traced back to those times?
        Certainly far beyond the hostile regime in Iran.
        
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        April 28, 2024 12:32pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        McCos. Just another part of the puzzle – that type of thing has been happening to the Jews since 700 BC with the Assyrians deporting the northern tribes of Israel, and 1200 BC with the Egyptians changing their status from friends to slaves.
        
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        April 28, 2024 1:22pm
  - Che Guava
    
    “Just the latest round of Hamas disinformation sucking in gullible westerners and closet anti-semites.”
    
    It’s funny how you put it like this, given the Israeli atrocity propaganda that many of the more gullible KBers have been deeply imbibing for the last 6 months, typically frothing at the mouth when anyone has the nerve to doubt and disagree.
    
    Think of the litany of completely uncorroborated and outlandish claims emanating from the IDF and Israeli intel agencies since 7 October that were used to justify them going in for various strategic purposes, including, it now seems, digging, and then filling in with Palestinians, this mass grave.
    
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    April 28, 2024 11:20am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      You casually mention “since 7 October” as if it was merely a date, a mark in the calendar that we can swiftly move on from.
      
      What you useful idiots clearly fail to realise is that by doing so, you are tacitly supporting the disgusting actions of Hamas, and ignoring a terrorist act of unimaginable proportions.
      
      I’ve been to Israel; I didn’t particularly like it. I met many Israelis, I liked a few but mostly found them prickly and untrusting. I understand completely why that’s the case – they’re surrounded on all sides by ideological maniacs who have dedicated their lives, and those of their children and their families and other civilians, to wiping Israel off the face of the earth. For many, it’s in their constitutions and charters.
      
      Personally, I hope Israel wipes out every last Hamas fighter, imprisons or executes the useful idiots such as the large numbers of UNRWA staff who not only supported the attacks but actively took part in them, and brings home whatever living hostages – and the remains of those murdered by Hamas – that it can.
      
      Whatever the civilian toll may be, that blood is firmly on the hands of Hamas and those who support and shelter them, including you.
      
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      April 28, 2024 4:30pm
- john1234
  
  Seriously? Why would anyone with a functioning IQ > 100 believe a word that s from Hamas?
  
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  April 28, 2024 9:24am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Well, it seems that most western governments, including the US, basically accept the casualty numbers from Hamas. The larger western nations will be doing their own verification to the extent they can. The Hamas figures have been accepted as broadly accurate. Even Israel doesn’t really contest them.
    
    The issue is the how many of the 33,000 are Hamas fighters. Israel says 13,000, so that means 20,000 civilians killed, across all age ranges. Quite a number of the Hamas fighters will be 16 and 17, and thus come within the UN definition of children. A number of military commentators have said the ratio of civilian casualties is similar to what occurred in Mosul. But I would have hoped that Israeli soldiers are more competent than Iraqi recruits.
    
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    April 28, 2024 10:34am
    - AitchW
      
      The problem for the Israelis is that Hamas routinely hide combatants among civilians. I’m not an expert on the conventions of war, but I’m pretty sure that that practise violates lots of written and/or unwritten rules. Hamas loves collateral damage, it allows them to point the finger at Israel and play the victim card.
      They’re evil bastards, every one of them.
      
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      April 28, 2024 10:44am
      - imalwaysright
        
        I don’t think that war has been declared by either side.
        
        2 4
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        April 28, 2024 11:22am
      - kowtow
        
        ‘They’re evil bastards, every one of them.’
        
        So are their numerous apologists.
        
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        April 28, 2024 11:53am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        “The problem for the Israelis is that Hamas routinely hide combatants among civilians.”
        
        Nope, that’s a problem for Hamas and the civilians who shelter and support them, or who voted for them to run the joint. it will not deter Israel one bit, and nor should it. The means of obtaining a cease-fire are in the hands of Hamas – release the hostages now.
        
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        April 28, 2024 4:32pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      “I have no notion that the Palestinians are telling the truth about how many people are killed. I’m sure innocents have been killed, and it’s the price of waging a war,” the US president said. “But I have no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using.”
      Joe Biden reported in The Guardian and The New York Times
      
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      April 28, 2024 10:48am
      - Che Guava
        
        Of course he has no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using, because he is deeply aligned with and completely backs the Israelis, who, without US taxpayer funding, would have had to have humbled themselves decades ago. What did you expect Biden (someone who you likely normally ridicule as being senile, btw) to say?
        
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        April 28, 2024 1:08pm
    - Cassandra
      
      Very difficult when you’re being shot at. Unless you’ve experienced it then commenting is, of necessity, a bit unbalanced. People under fire make terrible mistakes. Which is not to excuse careless bombing and shelling. I think action in Rafah will be much more restrained than that in Gaza City but, certainly, civilians will be killed – it’s the nature of war. I note that Ukraine figures are barely mentioned and Congo not at all.
      
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      April 28, 2024 10:50am
    - cmm
      
      “A number of military commentators have said the ratio of civilian casualties is similar to what occurred in Mosul. But I would have hoped that Israeli soldiers are more competent than Iraqi recruits.”
      
      For one who was once a Minister of Defence I would hope for a bit more military literacy, but then Judith Collins knows SFA about space, science innovation etc, so maybe I hope for too much.
      
      The ratio of civilian to fighter casualties here has little to do with the competence of the soldiers but far more to do with the fact that, in contravention with any rules of war, Hamas are hiding amongst the population.
      
      Almost certainly many of those “cvilians” are just Hamas fighters who are dressed as civilians.
      
      As for child soldiers getting killed. That’s all on Hamas. Guns are equalisers. An AK47 in the hands of a 12 year old will kill as effectively as in the hands of the 20 year old. If you pick up a weapon you’re a combatant – regardless of age. If you run messages or otherwise assist the fighters then you’re a combatant – regardless of age.
      
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      April 28, 2024 11:32am
      - jkt
        
        Your argument is that one can only be a capable minister/manager/leader if one is an expert …
        Wow! Shame on you, you know better than that. That places you in the realm of wokism.
        
        Focus!! Stick to one criticism at a time, when you roll all kinds of shit together and smoke the joint, you will taste ……..👅?
        
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        April 28, 2024 12:12pm
      - Che Guava
        
        “Almost certainly many of those “cvilians” are just Hamas fighters who are dressed as civilians.”
        
        Any evidence for your “almost certain” proposition? That’s all very convenient, isn’t it: go around killing civilians indiscriminately, and then just excuse your war crimes with the evidence-free assertion that what look like civilians are actually combatants dressed like civilians. After all, the idiots who are desperate to believe will believe this shit, won’t they.
        
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        April 28, 2024 1:13pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        cmm,
        My comment about the age of the Hamas fighters was meant to indicate that when Hamas says 60% of those killed are women and children, that number will include a fair number of Hamas fighters aged 16 and 17.
        Israel is apparently willing to accept a much higher ratio of civilians killed than NATO armies. For instance apparently they are willing to have 20 civilians killed to get one mid level commander (a major equivalent). This is much higher than a NATO army, where the accepted level might be 2 or 3 depending on circumstances. In Afghanistan it would never have been permissible to bomb an apartment block killing several families to get 1 or 2 insurgents.
        My speciality as a military officer was intelligence and rules of engagement was one of things I did, especially since my legal studies had a focus on international law including the law of armed conflict.
        I have spent literally years dealing with these kinds of issues.
        I recall that near the beginning of the current war that you said Israel used small bombs as a “knock on the door” prior to using precision weapons. They have certainly done that in the past, but not that much in this conflict. Instead they were initially using 1,000 and 5oo kg bombs. Sufficient to demolish an entire apartment building and damaging many adjacent buildings. Look at some of the photos on the scale of damage.
        
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        April 28, 2024 1:16pm
      - Che Guava
        
        Wayne
        “For instance apparently they are willing to have 20 civilians killed to get one mid level commander (a major equivalent). This is much higher than a NATO army, where the accepted level might be 2 or 3 depending on circumstances. In Afghanistan it would never have been permissible to bomb an apartment block killing several families to get 1 or 2 insurgents.”
        
        You occasionally surprise me when you come out with well reasoned views that decimate positions I would generally expect you to hold yourself.
        
        Basically, Israel doesn’t act like a reasonably restrained and reasonably moral Western force, because, despite their rhetoric used to gain Western support, Israel isn’t part of Western civilisation and therefore isn’t subject to the same moral constraints the West derives from its Christian principles.
        
        They are unapologetically barbaric in the way they conduct themselves in war, and that’s where the public backlash is coming from.
        
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        April 28, 2024 2:45pm
      - cmm
        
        Wayne, I am not sure whether Israel are stick using the knock-knock bombs or whether they have changed doctrines. They might have.
        
        The last I watched anything seriously was around 3 months ago and then they were certainly using precise, surgical methods and other methods to reduce civilian casualties.
        
        For example, it was common to see the use of three or four relatively small, but very carefully placed, bombs to carefully take out a building.
        
        However they do have a problem that a huge number of Hamas assets (tunnel entrances, bunkers etc) are built into apartment buildings etc. To wipe out those bunkers needs the use of large bombs. You can drop 200 pounders on it all day long and they won’t do the required damage.
        
        “Acceptable” civilian ratios are a challenge to figure out, but the numbers would vary from situation to situation.
        
        Ultimately military objectives must be met and if the enemy are choosing to use the population as a human shield then all the guilt is on them.
        
        Sure, sometimes some discretion can be applied. For example don’t bomb a market place while it is busy, rather come back when it is clear. But sometimes there is no good time to do these operations.
        
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        April 28, 2024 3:12pm
      - cmm
        
        jkt: “Your argument is that one can only be a capable minister/manager/leader if one is an expert …”
        
        Not at all. Sometimes the most effective decision makers/facilitators are those who know little and ask a lot of questions.
        
        3 1
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        April 28, 2024 3:15pm
    - kowtow
      
      Hamas “fighters” ?
      
      No , they are terrorists.
      
      9 3
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      April 28, 2024 11:52am
      - jkt
        
        Death cult.
        
        5 3
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        April 28, 2024 12:12pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Or maybe 13 or 14. Have you been watching Sky News Aust and the number of arrests after the preacher was stabbed by a radical Islamist?
      
      2 1
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      April 28, 2024 1:16pm
  - KH
    
    No amount of evidence would inform some Kiwiblog commentators.
    Reality deficient.
    I posted here a video of a bad things happening to a West bank settler.
    So somebody abused me for being a Lenist – Maoist.
    ???? and ????
    
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    April 28, 2024 10:57am
    - jkt
      
      Context, is always important.
      If the shoe does not fit, respond and explain.
      Probably a waste of time but at least it allows one to defend your own opinion to yourself.
      
      If not, wear the shoe!
      
      1 3
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      April 28, 2024 12:15pm
  - Che Guava
    
    If we’re going to generalise the characteristics and tendencies of entire groups, then one of the long-standing complaints about the Jewish group is that they are reflexively dishonest towards gentiles and will say and do almost anything if it advances the interests of the Jewish group.
    
    Maybe Hamas are habitually dishonest, but then so too maybe the Jews are as well.
    
    The starting-point for most of the pro-Zionist camp is that anything and everything the Israelis claim, no matter how tenuous and unevidenced or illogical, is indisputably true just on account of the claim being made, implicit in this assumption is the premise “Jews don’t lie, so it must be true.” If you start from a drastically faulty premise like this one, it’s no surprise at all that the conclusions the pro-Israelis reach are so unreliable and prone to be flawed.
    
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    April 28, 2024 11:27am
    - jkt
      
      No, death cult! Death cult!
      
      3 4
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      April 28, 2024 12:17pm
      - Che Guava
        
        What an intelligent comment.
        
        4 4
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        April 28, 2024 12:45pm
      - jkt
        
        Thanks.
        You are definitely making progress.
        
        Heaven and hell is this side of the grave.
        Do you get the meaning of death cult now? Try…. it is not that hard.
        
        1 3
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        April 28, 2024 3:15pm
      - Mike
        
        jkt
        So any belief in afterlife counts as a ‘death cult’?
        
        5 1
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        April 28, 2024 4:10pm
      - jkt
        
        Well spotted Mike.
        
        1 1
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        April 28, 2024 9:01pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Moron alert
        
        0 1
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        April 28, 2024 10:09pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      “one of the long-standing complaints about the Jewish group is that they are reflexively dishonest towards gentiles and will say and do almost anything if it advances the interests of the Jewish group.”
      
      Longstanding amongst nutters, and malignant regimes, yes.
      
      2 1
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      April 28, 2024 2:51pm
- emmess
  
  Didn’t watch but I’d say it doesn’t look good for Hamas
  
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  April 28, 2024 12:08pm
Swifty

A very good Damien Grant today:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350255156/damien-grant-pay-attention-review-gender-care-youth
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April 28, 2024 8:31am
- jkt
  
  Gender care:
  Was it cowardice? Or was there a different dimension to our acceptance that gender confirmation is a lesser evil than Conversion Therapy.
  
  Let’s not beat ourselves up. Now that we know better it will be cowardly not to speak up and expect better from those in charge and …… accountable to us.
  
  Being stupid enough to swap one type of therapy for a more harmful therapy says it all. So cowardice may well be a coping mechanism for being duped.
  
  Let’s all be more critical and less self-serving.
  
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  April 28, 2024 12:33pm
Scooter

What is Stuff hoping to achieve by putting this disclaimer at the start of Damien Grant’s article on Gender Puberty Blockers etc and a coincidence it’s about this particular subject?

“Stuff looks to publish a diverse range of opinions. Sometimes we’ll publish opinions you disagree with. That’s healthy.”.

They really are completely devoid of their public’s perception of them. The sooner they take over TV3 and the both disappear into the ether the better.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350255156/damien-grant-pay-attention-review-gender-care-youth
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April 28, 2024 8:59am
- jkt
  
  That is an improvement.
  Note the “you” instead of “we”.
  
  I am not sure the “activists” will let them get away with this. They only want to hear their own voices amplified.
  
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  April 28, 2024 9:39am
- rouppe
  
  They’ve asked for your opinion. Email at the bottom of the article
  
  4 0
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  April 28, 2024 10:51am
  - jkt
    
    Stuff banned me from commenting, so I retaliate by pretending I ignore them.
    
    No rehabilitation offered by them cowards at Stuff!
    
    1 2
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    April 28, 2024 12:37pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Were you banned because of your bullshit?
      
      2 0
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      April 28, 2024 10:08pm
- miltonF
  
  I think it’s referred to as a “trigger warning”
  
  Damien’s articles seem to get them quite often on Stuff. It’s hilarious actually.
  
  6 0
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  April 28, 2024 3:07pm
  - jkt
    
    Progress.
    Maybe there is hope for Stuff.
    RIP.🪦
    
    0 1
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    April 28, 2024 9:03pm
Southern Raider

There is no hope.

Read the list of demands for an employer. All woke and one way. Only thing missing is the expectation to be CEO by 28

https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350259210/rage-vs-wage-bosses-battle-gen-zers-over-workplace-rights
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April 28, 2024 9:03am
- imalwaysright
  
  Sounds more like a list of demands from a terrorist with hostages.
  
  7 3
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  April 28, 2024 9:56am
- rouppe
  
  Well “Sarah” has a degree and impeccable references, so she should be able to start her own business that has the values she desires.
  
  14 1
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  April 28, 2024 10:52am
  - jkt
    
    She will find that business owners who embrace victimhood will end on the scrap heap.
    
    5 1
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    April 28, 2024 12:39pm
- wsk12345
  
  Shame for them that they will find getting ANY job difficult in the next few years. Good for us though as it might force them to be a bit more realistic about their part in the world.
  
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  April 28, 2024 1:38pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  A phenomena I’ve noticed is a lot of “nice” parents who are otherwise intelligent, will vociferously and wholeheartedly kowtow to the idiot/commie ideas their young adult children follow, so as not to alienate them. So you then get an added critical mass of dangerous and childish idiocy in the population.
  
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  April 28, 2024 2:23pm
- AitchW
  
  There is hope. I have employed a Gen Z fellow. He’s well mannered, hard working, honest, and exercises initiative. They’re not all wastes of space.
  
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  April 28, 2024 4:43pm
  - Mike
    
    Most people are worthwhile.
    
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    April 28, 2024 4:55pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Yes indeed. However it has long been known that youth are most susceptible to cults and other dumb/toxic movements. Hence why these groups target them!
      
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      April 28, 2024 8:47pm
Inandout

Am I the only one who finds ZB’s Donna Maria Lever’s voice excitable and grating? I note she was trained at BBC and CNN.
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April 28, 2024 9:04am
- kowtow
  
  They have another “news” reader who goes overboard on the pronounciation of Maori place names .
  
  Ridiculous .
  
  8 1
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  April 28, 2024 9:56am
- Rocky Jnr
  
  The voice in the Lexus of North Shore and Danske Mobler adverts really grinds my gears.
  
  5 0
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  April 28, 2024 10:06am
  - sherp
    
    Can be worse than the Alternative commentary collective ads…. sounds like the guy is having a stroke…
    
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    April 28, 2024 12:41pm
- rouppe
  
  I’ve been up the coast at a friend’s bach the last 4 days. Haven’t listened to the radio once.
  
  Just read, eat and sleep and walk on the beach.
  
  Pretty darn good…
  
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  April 28, 2024 10:12am
- Dodger
  
  I also have noticed that her voice seems to change when she’s on radio compared to when she is commenting on TV.
  When on radio it seems as if her voice is stuck half way back in her throat or trying to hold something in.
  
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  April 28, 2024 11:04am
MCōs

I would have thought in these days of cutbacks to all sorts of government spending, some of which could be seen as quite harsh, the Speaker’s Tours might have been put on the back burner
Speaker Brownlee recently went to Niue with Ayesha Verrall (Labour), Tangi Utikere (Labour), Katie Nimon (National) and Hūhana Hickey (Greens)
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/515216/the-government-s-20-trips-abroad-in-april
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April 28, 2024 9:28am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Niueans are Citizens of NZ.
  Why shouldn’t our politicians front up occasionally on their front door?
  
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  April 28, 2024 9:32am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yeah I wouldn’t pick on them. 😂
    
    However I would like to see evaluations of the effectiveness of these tours in general.
    Like this one to Latin America.
    
    https://www.parliament.nz/en/get-involved/features/nz-speaker-s-delegation-strengthens-ties-with-latin-america/
    
    One of the objectives was to strengthen the ties betwen the New Zealand parliament and parliaments in Latin America. 😳
    
    If I asked for evidence of whether that objective had been achieved, 8 years on, would I get a helpful answer? 🤡
    
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    April 28, 2024 9:43am
    - Taieri
      
      One of the objectives was to strengthen the ties betwen the New Zealand parliament and parliaments in Latin America
      ————
      
      What ties? Are there any?
      
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      April 28, 2024 9:47am
  - MCōs
    
    There’s twenty times more Kiwis in your neck of the woods
    Had any Speaker’s Tours in Gisborne lately?
    
    4 4
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    April 28, 2024 9:47am
    - cmm
      
      Is there a first class lounge in Gizzy?
      
      5 0
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      April 28, 2024 11:34am
      - MCōs
        
        The Rob Muldoon Lounge at the Black Power Country Club
        
        4 0
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        April 28, 2024 2:18pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Na… but Willie and mates dropped by last week.
      
      https://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/news/govt-job-cuts-have-people-walking-on-eggshells
      
      (tho’ when I spied him, he was all on his lonesome sitting outside C Company -28 Bn Memorial House enjoying the sunshine).
      
      8 0
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      April 28, 2024 11:54am
      - kowtow
        
        First class loungers .
        
        2 0
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        April 28, 2024 2:44pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      One of the Blokes at Bowls has a grand daughter who was given a special trip to Latin America [ world climate probably] from the last govt
      
      5 1
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      April 28, 2024 12:20pm
  - Paulus
    
    As New Zealand Citizens, of interest, which Electorate do they come under ?
    
    5 0
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    April 28, 2024 11:13am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      They seem to be in some strange arrangement (a Dependency )whereby they have their own Parliament, based on village electorates, but our Governor General.
      They must be NZ Citizens to stand for their Parliament.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Niue
      
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      April 28, 2024 11:58am
      - JimBobJoe
        
        the Cook Islands are another odd instance – they are in “Free Association” with NZ, but run their own affairs via a Cook Island Parliament..
        
        Cook Islanders are NZ citizens… and hey ho can retire to the Cooks with their full NZ Super…
        
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        April 28, 2024 5:17pm
Benedict Yu

How times change. 😳 When I was at university, there was a free student health centre. Staffed by a grumpy doctor and a grumpy nurse. Students generally visited as a last resort. 😅

Now at Victoria University, their student health centre is a magical, welcoming place. I was somewhat surprised to learn that they prescribe hormones to students who would like to change their gender 😳

“If you would like to discuss hormone therapy or other aspects of gender affirming healthcare, book an appointment with Nurse Bianca Sepulveda (she/her) in her Friday clinic. If you are wanting to start hormone therapy for the first time, let the support team know this when you book so they can ensure enough time for the appointment.”

https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/student-health-counselling/services/accessing-gender-affirming-healthcare

As we recently learned with the landmark UK report, things can go badly wrong prescribing such powerful drugs to young people..

https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

Is giving out such drugs really within the expertise envelope of a university health centre? I think that the danger is amplified because the university is already a place where “feelings” are everything and questioning a person’s decision to change gender is deemed hateful.

There is no end to the little time bombs I seen to uncover. 😕
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April 28, 2024 9:32am
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  At least in the University context those accessing these treatments are adults. So not an issue as long as the clinic is providing all the facts so that the decision is truely informed and the adult is in a sound mental state. Not so easy to assess if the adult is of a sound mental state, given they are making a decision to significantly increase their chances of cancer, heart attack etc so they can pretend they are a different gender than their biology.
  
  What level of psychological assessment does one need to be able to commence hormone treatments? Given NZ has 10 times the rate of gender affirming care as the UK one would have to assume a lot of corners are being cut.
  
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  April 28, 2024 9:51am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Addendum… I recognise that adults can do whatever they want, in principle. However two points.
  
  There will be hundreds of 17 year olds at the University, ie minors
  
  Secondly, New Zealand is a society in which we all bear the costs of people doing stupid things to their minds and bodies. I’m not arguing that no adults should be allowed life changing hormones. I’m simply questioning whether a university health centre is a qualified gatekeeper.
  
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  April 28, 2024 10:36am
  - jkt
    
    When I ask for a cortisone injection that I desperately need to function I have to, every time, listen to a very alarmed doctor explaining all the potential side effects.
    
    I am sure that those side effects are accumulating since the first time receiving the injection at the age of 17 and that I will pay for my insistence on receiving this intervention … any day now … imagine how healthy a seventy year old I could have been.
    
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    April 28, 2024 12:50pm
  - Taieri
    
    I’m simply questioning whether a university health centre is a qualified gatekeeper.
    ————-
    
    This should be rephrased.
    Is a nurse a qualified gatekeeper in such cases? With all the due respect to all nurses of course…
    
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    April 28, 2024 1:25pm
- AitchW
  
  I wonder what the ratio of male to female students seeking to transition is? Given that the male brain doesn’t fully develop until early 20s is it appropriate to give gender transitioning chemicals to males under 20?
  
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  April 28, 2024 11:11am
jkt

Benedict Yu

When you present with symptoms of kidney stones or a headache they send you packing.

When you suggest a dose of antibiotics for an infection they explain to you the risks to hour health when taking antibiotics, give you Panadol and send you packing.
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April 28, 2024 9:48am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I’m pretty confident that my GP would take me seriously if I presented with symptoms of kidney stones.
  
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  April 28, 2024 10:37am
  - rouppe
    
    When I presented to hospital in an ambulance with symptoms that turned out to be a gallstone, I was sent packing 6 hours later (after waiting 2 hours for an ambulance, after spending 4 hours trying to deal with the pain myself) because symptoms has dissipated and there was now “no longer a problem”.
    
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    April 28, 2024 10:58am
  - All_on_Red
    
    I can tell you from personal experience that if you present at A and E with Renal Colic (or an Asthma attack) you go to the front of the queue
    Ahhh Pethidine
    
    7 0
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    April 28, 2024 10:58am
    - Paulus
      
      With a Heart attack you go straight in at A&E.
      I know !
      
      10 0
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      April 28, 2024 11:16am
      - CJames
        
        Generally, if you arrive in a helicopter or ambulance, you also go straight in and often it is a doctor who first assesses you. At least it did for me.
        
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        April 28, 2024 2:08pm
    - jkt
      
      Experience and memory. Thank god we find life satisfaction through memory! Laughing gas and intravenous morphine!
      
      I also have great memories of my experiences at hospital.
      
      But, but when I put my mind at work I find that I too have experienced serious renal issues on a number of occasions and how hard it was to explain my discomfort to triage.
      
      2 2
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      April 28, 2024 1:01pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        I found all I had to say when they asked me what was wrong was “renal colic” and away I went…
        
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        April 28, 2024 2:18pm
      - jkt
        
        They were about to discharge me when they finally realised that I had kidney infection. Following procedures to remove a kidney stone. Who would have thought?
        
        I clearly remember the line of seven doctors standing at the foot of my bed in the isolation unit of the hospital. They all studied my charts, the most senior specialist rambled through the diagnosis and then it was the most junior doctor who picked up the marker. The file then went from doctor to doctor in the opposite direction until the specialist looked at the file ….. they all marched out of the room without a further word, to my total confusion. Not that I cared much, I was praying that death would relieve me of the pain.
        
        I only have a memory of the experience, thank goodness 😅.
        
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        April 28, 2024 3:31pm
      - JimBobJoe
        
        ” line of seven doctors standing at the foot of my bed in the isolation unit of the hospital. They all studied my charts, the most senior specialist rambled through the diagnosis and then it was the most junior doctor who picked up the marker. The file then went from doctor to doctor in the opposite direction until the specialist looked at the file ….. ”
        
        Re this in your further comment below: Its totally normal as the the ones following the specialist are juniors learning from the senior… it happens all day every day in our hospitals. It its not anything untoward..
        
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        April 28, 2024 5:14pm
      - jkt
        
        JimBobJoe:
        
        I know. Right!
        Especially assuring when the most junior doctor in the queue is the only one to pick up the cause of one’s ailment! Thank goodness he shared what he read with number six, who shared it with number five, who shared it ……… Great teamwork!
        
        Placed in an isolation unit for an undiagnosed ailment that turns out to be kidney infection following the removal of a kidney stone …. rocket science. They were very generous with the morphine and looked after me really well. And I did not have to pay a single cent directly for all of that.
        
        Thanks.🙏 And all I have is a memory of that unpleasant experience. I can confirm that what Kahnenman writes on the matter of experience and memory has merit.
        
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        April 28, 2024 9:17pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        A Kidney infection is NOT a Kidney stone
        How did they ‘remove’ your Kidney stone?
        Surgery? Liar
        I have had renal colic several times and have passed stones- fortunately not for quite a while
        And they dont give Morphine, they give Pethidine- I have had it THREE times
        Your comments reek of bullshit
        
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        April 28, 2024 9:58pm
  - Dougal10
    
    Yes you are probably right in your case but that depends on the patient doctor relationship. Where I go you will get whomever out of 8 doctors is available first , usually in a weeks time. There is no relationship except with the eftpos machine and my wallet.
    
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    April 28, 2024 11:09am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Sorry But I think our doctors are a sorry lot. Frightened by saving their jobs during the Plandemic and for me were not able to diagnose sciatica, carpel tunnel, anxiety and shingles over many years
    
    8 1
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    April 28, 2024 12:36pm
- Ghost
  
  You need a better gp then.
  
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  April 28, 2024 11:58am
  - Flossie
    
    Easy to say
    However there people who cannot get registered with any GP nevermind one they find satisfactory.
    
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    April 28, 2024 12:32pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This will be interesting. How will it really be enforced?
There are many exemptions, all which are reasonable. How many kids are so addicted to their phones that they will throw a tantrum? How many detentions?
Before and after school, phones are good for safety. If parents need to urgently contact their child, the school has a landline phone.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/ban-on-phones-in-new-zealand-schools-kicks-in-on-monday/ar-AA1nMqvT
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April 28, 2024 9:52am
- JimBobJoe
  
  I really dont know how I managed to get through my childhood without a mobile phone. How did I cope?
  
  I allowed my son one in his early teens as he was travelling a reasonable distance on buses to get home and I thought the safety net was a good thing – no data in those days on basic phones.
  
  The relentless push of technology in to areas it is not need is appalling
  
  As a tutor on Info Systems at Vic once said sagely, not every info system needs to be computerised…. books and notes work very well
  
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  April 28, 2024 10:02am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Were not even allowed calculators for exams. I had a metal one, before the digital ones came out.
    
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    April 28, 2024 12:18pm
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  Depends on if you take as truth the sample of 3 that msm have interviewed on this. There is very little peer reviewed data available on the effects of cellphone bans and what their is is inconclusive. Partly because the time frame for existing bans is so short (3 years to months) we have very little longer term data.
  
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  April 28, 2024 10:26am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Takapuna Grammar has had them banned for years.
    The kids are fine.
    Land lines are available at the Nurses station or the Deans office.
    Pro tip- when picking your child up from after School sport or training, take a book. There is pretty much zero signal.
    
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    April 28, 2024 11:02am
- cmm
  
  “Before and after school, phones are good for safety.”
  
  Really? I grew up in a far more violent society that NZ and we managed fine without phones, two way radios etc.
  
  Quite likely having a nice phone in NZ will decrease a child’s safety by making them a target for bullying and robbery.
  
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  April 28, 2024 11:39am
- MCōs
  
  Probably no more addicted to social media than you are.
  How is the ban enforced?
  I asked my son, who is a principal and he said they are locked up somehow so the kids can’t use them
  If the kids needs to use a phone they can go to the office.
  Do they throw tantrums?
  Kids/people throw tantrums over anything.
  I saw someone throw a tantrum at a security guy at the supermarket yesterday
  
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  April 28, 2024 2:09pm
Maggie Pie

Going into Mass this morning and a bestie asked if I remembered when Green co-leader Marama Davidson said back on 14 March, that the investigation into Darleen Tana’s alleged shenanigans involving migrant exploitation would take 2 to 4 weeks……well in a few days from now we’ll be coming up to 7 weeks.

She was wondering if we’re still paying her??
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April 28, 2024 10:37am
- Benedict Yu
  
  They may just go silent and air brush it from the record. 😕 Authoritarians tend to be good at that.
  
  Jacinda was great at it. 🤡 The term “Kiwibuild” was, quite literally, banished from the vocabulary.
  
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  April 28, 2024 10:58am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And funny how the msm seem to have lost interest in it.
    
    Some people with knowledge of the matter are asking whether Darlene
    and her hubby have suddenly become unccoperative?
    
    15 1
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    April 28, 2024 11:50am
- marcw
  
  In a similar vein, who remembers this?
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/301016365/decision-in-dr-siouxsie-wiles-employment-case-against-auckland-uni-reserved-after-three-week-hearing
  
  Now 5 months and counting, waiting for a decision…
  
  22 0
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  April 28, 2024 11:22am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Looks like Auckland Uni is also having to deal with another employment Matter….
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/university-of-auckland-taken-to-employment-relations-authority-by-plan-b-academic-simon-thornley/AGWNVRHD5BG23JEFHKSEQA4CMA/
    
    15 0
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    April 28, 2024 12:04pm
Jack5

Could the student agitation in Western universities be a ploy related to the old Communist stirrings?

In the Cold War, the Soviet Union subsidised the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, and Beijing and Moscow supported the student resistance that crippled American resolve in Vietnam.

Right now we have at least two powers who would benefit from student problems in the West.

First, China, with its eyes on Taiwan and with Trump threatening to block its American consumer market.

Second, Putin, who would surely welcome diversion of America and the Nato allies from helping Ukraine.

Gaza will be a temporary issue for most in the West. However, right now it may be a diversion and a tool for agitprop-type stirring by Putin and Beijing. They have the skills and the resources for this.
11 0
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April 28, 2024 10:53am
- emmess
  
  Without doubt
  
  5 0
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  April 28, 2024 12:11pm
- Che Guava
  
  Yeah, sounds legit. US students protesting against Israel is really because of Putin’s and Beijing’s influence, and has nothing at all to do with people seeing for themselves what Israel is up to and being repulsed by it, and realising that the US government is deeply implicated in it all. Israel is never at fault, right?
  
  4 2
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  April 28, 2024 12:52pm
  - Jack5
    
    Student demonstrations – protest demonstrations as a type – are as much about, or perhaps even more about, organisation and propaganda as about right and wrong, Che.
    
    Here’s a verse from the old song about an American labour martyr, Joe Hill, as sung by Paul Robeson:
    
    And standing there as big as life
    And smiling with his eyes
    Says Joe “What they could never kill
    Went on to organize
    Went on to organize”
    
    3 0
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    April 28, 2024 1:43pm
Benedict Yu

How depressing. 😑 Teenagers destroying food crops that elderly folk tend for months. 😠

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350245782/community-gardeners-crops-pilfered-and-destroyed-children

Of course the police will just shrug, if that. 🤷‍♂️

It is also the parents. For those commenters of a certain age, reflect on what your father would have done to you if as a teenager you had been caught destroying someone’s vegetable garden. 😳
24 0
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April 28, 2024 10:54am
- AitchW
  
  Middlemore. Yet another part of south Auckland where the shops have roller doors pulled down at night.
  A couple of years ago I had cause to visit Middlemore Hospital. What an experience! I’ve never before felt unsafe in a hospital, but I did there. Lots of menacing looking thugs hanging round the entrance and the corridors, raised voices on the wards and very little obvious security. I’m bloody glad that my local hospital is Waikato.
  
  17 1
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  April 28, 2024 11:07am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Cops should be stationed permanently at our larger hospitals.
    
    6 1
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    April 28, 2024 11:39am
  - MCōs
    
    From my observation things have improved out of sight very quickly since you buggered off
    
    1 9
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    April 28, 2024 1:44pm
- kowtow
  
  For the lefties who’re soft on crime types or of the Leninist Maoist etc persuasion , destroying food during any one of the “emergencies” we’re supposedly going through at the moment would at a minimum see you off to the Camps , Comrade . No three strikers . Just gone .
  
  7 0
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  April 28, 2024 12:02pm
- sherp
  
  Yea they won’t be treating this one as a hate crime…
  
  3 0
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  April 28, 2024 12:50pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  My Dad would assure the cops he would discipline me severely, then would actually give me a hiding. That is I believe what a father SHOULD do in such circumstances. But since we have gone mental, that no longer happens. We see the results.
  
  3 0
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  April 28, 2024 4:20pm
Burtland

Seems the ozone hole is causing problems again …

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-68906013

Apparently its growing due to smoke – we were told it was from CFCs which got banned, but now its the bogeyman, Climate Change

FFS
15 0
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April 28, 2024 10:55am
- JJ56
  
  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-42637-0 is doubtful about wildfires, FWIW
  
  2 0
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  April 28, 2024 12:50pm
- jkt
  
  The hole in the ozone layer sure does affect the climate.
  
  “According” to the IPCC, not by much. (Depending which part of the assessment report one reads) It is all about anthropogenic CO2 and all the other stuff is in the margins. Yeah, right!
  
  1 0
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  April 28, 2024 1:12pm
Tasman devil

Has Tamatha Paul ever smiled?
She comes across as an unsmiling unhappy Marxist.

Just asking for a life coach.
14 0
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April 28, 2024 11:09am
- rockape
  
  I think it’s a lefty thing. I understand that. If you don’t have confidence in the ability of yourself and people in general to make their lives better, but, feel totally reliant on the Government to do that for you, then life must be sad. Unfortunately we are bringing up a generation of ambition less youth who think the Government , and a left wing government at that, is the answer to their future happiness.
  
  12 0
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  April 28, 2024 11:18am
  - jkt
    
    “I am the government, I am here for you!”
    
    3 0
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    April 28, 2024 1:14pm
    - Jethrod
      
      “……….but Koha first please…”
      
      3 0
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      April 28, 2024 2:25pm
Jack5

What’s wrong with the West’s economic systems?

A heading today in the Wall Street Journal: Young Americans Are Getting Left Behind by Rising Home Prices, Higher Stocks.

The article centres on the experience of an accountant and his family who want to move closer to their grandparents.

“But leaving their 1,000-square-foot Philadelphia row home means borrowing with rates around 7%— to buy in a market where the typical home value has jumped 40% since the start of 2020. Their 3.85% mortgage costs $1,500 a month. They are looking at payments of around $4,000 if they move.”

The newspaper says gains from rising property prices have favoured older Americans who bought when prices were lower.

Over-all assets of Americans aged 55 and above account for nearly 70% of all households’ assets. Their share sat at 51% three decades earlier.
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April 28, 2024 11:11am
- cmm
  
  They are getting left behind by their over-entitlement.
  
  People these days (including beneficiaries) turn their noses up at houses that people would have been perfectly happy with in the 1990s.
  
  Look at the cars they expect to “own” (note they don’t really own because far too many are bought on credit). Fancy phones, $100k college debt wasted on a useless degree, expensive everything.
  
  Champagne tastes, beer budget.
  
  16 0
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  April 28, 2024 11:44am
- kowtow
  
  Closer to grandparents ?
  
  They want free child care and are moaning about the cost of a move .
  
  Diddums.
  
  9 0
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  April 28, 2024 12:05pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump. Some immunity?

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/supreme-court-justices-appear-poised-to-offer-trump-some-immunity-potentially-delaying-jan-6-trial/ar-AA1nF9sz?
7 2
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April 28, 2024 11:58am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Bones are alive?

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/why-are-we-all-being-forced-to-bow-down-to-maori-religion/
8 2
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April 28, 2024 12:04pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Where I draw the line is the requirement that all public servants accommodate all Maori customary values and beliefs in their work. Some of these are religious. For example “mauri” or the “life force” in all entities, such as rivers.
  
  Of course there is no such thing as a “life force”. It is a mythical belief and I cannot, and will not, incorporate such a belief in my work.
  
  The government should amend the Public Service Act to remove all this. As I commented months back, the least of our problems was some government agencies being given Maori names. It is the other stuff that is simply invisible to the public that is far more corrosive.
  
  16 0
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  April 28, 2024 1:20pm
  - Taieri
    
    some government agencies being given Maori names. It is the other stuff that is simply invisible to the public that is far more corrosive
    —————
    
    One is inherently connected to the other.
    
    8 1
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    April 28, 2024 1:30pm
  - Paulus
    
    It appears still that many Public Service Ministries are taking no notice of the Maori name dictum.
    Schools near us have all got new names Kura and below school, which we never had before.
    Its a con !
    
    9 1
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    April 28, 2024 1:52pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The debate is on?

https://www.thepoliticalglobe.com/trump-challenges-biden-to-a-showdown-at-the-white-house-04-27-2024/?
8 3
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April 28, 2024 12:11pm
- jkt
  
  SCOTUS hearing is very interesting.🤔
  
  1. The president is beyond the law! Above the law! Outside the law. Lawless!
  2. No, the president has only limited immunity.
  
  Which is it?
  
  2 1
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  April 28, 2024 1:19pm
  - Mike
    
    Differs depending on whethher the president is a Democrat or a Republican.
    
    6 0
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    April 28, 2024 4:49pm
    - jkt
      
      Very true.
      Nixon did the honourable thing, resigned and retreated from public life to serve his self imposed sentence. (Allowed him to avoid being sanctioned by his peers or the judiciary)
      
      0 0
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      April 28, 2024 9:23pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        What about Obama killing civilians with Drone Strikes?
        You really know eff all about this-apart from your TDS
        The Supremes are ripping the Dems apart for their hypocrisy
        
        1 0
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        April 28, 2024 9:54pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Hang on.
  I thought Virtualmark said that Trump wouldn’t debate Biden?
  
  3 4
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  April 28, 2024 2:13pm
Biscuit

Is it just me or do you, too, get heartily sickened about every Tom, Dick and Harry Rugby player being called a ‘legend’?

I saw this headline today:

TVNZ’s Michelle Prendiville engaged to rugby legend Marty Banks

Surprised only that Ms Prendiville wasn’t similarly overpraised – ‘Much-loved award-winning journalist. Best Autocue Reader 2020. Voted Sister of the Naton 2021’, gimme strength) I went and Googled:

Mr Banks’ playing record is as follows:

Senior career
2011 Krasny Yar Krasnoyarsk
2012 Buller
2013–2016 Tasman
2014 Hurricanes
2015–2017 Highlanders
2017–2018 Benetton
2018–2021 Red Hurricanes Osaka
2019–2023 Highlanders
2021– Southland

Exactly what part of that sees him qualified to be called a ‘legend’ somewhat eludes me!
The word ‘journeyman’ seems more apt…
18 2
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April 28, 2024 12:25pm
- Inandout
  
  Bis, I thought a legend was a fairy tale or a story loosely based on fact.
  
  2 2
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  April 28, 2024 12:57pm
- RichardX
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/highlanders/long-read-legend-marty-banks
  
  3 2
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  April 28, 2024 1:33pm
  - Biscuit
    
    Ooh, tyvm, RichardX.
    
    Will copy that for my reading…
    
    2 0
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    April 28, 2024 4:25pm
- Paulus
  
  No, just media page filling bore !
  
  1 1
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  April 28, 2024 1:53pm
- MCōs
  
  Is it just me or do I detect I hint of jealousy!
  
  3 1
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  April 28, 2024 4:14pm
  - Biscuit
    
    From Moi, MCōs?
    
    2 0
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    April 28, 2024 4:22pm
  - graham
    
    “Is it just me …”
    
    Yep, it’s just you.
    
    0 2
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    April 28, 2024 5:20pm
sungsamning

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/drag-queen-reading-group-rainbow-storytime-cancels-nationwide-tour-amid-ongoing-protest-by-destiny-church-leader-brian-tamaki/

Bishop to Queen. Checkmate.
11 2
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April 28, 2024 12:45pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uxhwQBcOg0
Willie Jackson on the Waitangi Tribunal, Māori Leadership & Gangs.
Michael Laws talks to Labour’s Willie Jackson about the Waitangi Tribunal, Māori leadership & gangs. [ Its past its use by date. Time to downsize, or eliminate it.]
7 2
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April 28, 2024 12:45pm
Swifty

An interesting pic and comments regarding a Mr C. Upham.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/H58ZwuN8Rf82pWaL/?mibextid=K35XfP
2 1
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April 28, 2024 1:20pm
Maggie Pie

Thort for a moment that ClarkE may have been out catching a few rays 😎

Turns out it’s only David Lammy ….. (Dave to his friends)

https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1784012046931005620
3 2
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April 28, 2024 1:39pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Speaking of “eKarens”….
  
  Only wants the internet censored so people and, hell, even real climate scientists can’t comment adversely on the climate change scam.
  
  5 2
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  April 28, 2024 2:55pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    YIP. YIP. That’s it….
    
    5 2
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    April 28, 2024 4:00pm
- Ghost
  
  Neither look comfortable in that photo, seems both don’t want a photo. Can’t blame the guy. Who wants a photo with a nutty old cat lady.
  
  3 0
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  April 28, 2024 4:06pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    They say you are judged by the company keep 😀
    
    See where they call Dave…. “the most stupid politician in Britain”
    
    https://twitter.com/Mintando/status/1784390273226940475
    
    3 0
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    April 28, 2024 4:26pm
    - Ghost
      
      Most stupid politician in Britain meets the most stupid politician from the southern hemisphere.
      
      3 0
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      April 28, 2024 4:34pm
- cmm
  
  The witch certainly gets good service from her carbon-free broom.
  
  4 1
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  April 28, 2024 4:55pm
vand

Israel to run…to run roughshod over the rest of the Middle East”?
Che Che – Where have you been hiding? The Arabs have run “roughshod” over the Muddled East and each other since moving out of Arabia . They are gnashing their teeth as they don’t as yet own 100% of the Muddled East – that pesky Israel is in their way
7 2
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April 28, 2024 1:43pm
- Mike
  
  Who was there first and does it even matter?
  
  3 1
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  April 28, 2024 4:45pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    What matters is who will be there last.
    
    0 1
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    April 28, 2024 7:15pm
Swifty

Pathetic sentences.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/father-son-rebels-gang-duo-texas-and-wiremu-doctor-sentenced-to-prison-together-for-auckland-shootings/4GLFQX4VCRFUNB64SA4KX3KATQ/

I thought we were cracking down on gangs, gang violence and firearms crime etc?

Just pathetic.
3 2
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April 28, 2024 1:46pm
- cmm
  
  You’re new in town right?
  
  2 1
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  April 28, 2024 4:47pm
  - Swifty
    
    Heh.
    
    3 1
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    April 28, 2024 5:02pm
Paulus

I see that it appears that the Hamas Leader’s and their wealthy families, have decamped from the Gulf to Turkey !
Apparently some Gulf states are worried about their own security with them there.
8 2
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April 28, 2024 1:56pm
- Inandout
  
  Paulus, they realise that nowhere on this earth is immune from Mossad agents and may these scum run until tracked down.
  
  4 1
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  April 28, 2024 4:59pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  I hear the Kurds are keen on funding… I would have thought Turkey would be an easier place to take out Hamas leadership than the gulf…. Kurds, Armenians
  
  Those groups have many axes to grind with Erdogan and the Turkish State… and I am sure Mossad has channels of communications to those groups.
  
  Start the clock till the first Hamas leader is dropped. I give it about 2 to 3 months, as Mossad will need to create new operational plans after shelving the Gulf State Hamas Leadership elimination plan
  
  1 1
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  April 28, 2024 5:04pm
  - Mike
    
    Netanyahu’s plan to support Hamas vs Fatah didn’t work too well.
    
    2 1
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    April 28, 2024 6:15pm
Ghost

Amazing, damaging a car because you don’t like it had a “let’s go Brandon” sticker on it.

YouTube
1 2
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April 28, 2024 3:51pm
Ghost

Hmmm, not sure. Wouldn’t mind someone with medical knowledge holding the position

Former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett is taking up a new role as the boss of Pharmac’s board.

The former National MP, who was in politics for 15 years before leaving in 2020, held portfolios including social development, associate finance, state services, social housing, police, local government and tourism.

Article
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April 28, 2024 4:29pm
- Mike
  
  State sector boards are completely useless, but politicians love making appointments to ceremonial functions.
  
  3 1
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  April 28, 2024 4:42pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Because they’re a cake walk?
    
    0 2
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    April 28, 2024 8:51pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  A bestie tweets….
  
  It could have been worse tho Ghost
  
  https://twitter.com/Dazmeister1000/status/1784371420891631777
  
  (full screen/sound up 😀 )
  
  0 3
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  April 28, 2024 4:52pm
cmm

Another armed robbery in Auckland.

No doubt the gangs are behind this. Your average casual burglar just doesn’t have the network to fence stuff like this.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/emergency-services-responding-to-aggravated-robbery-at-west-auckland-mall/L534V5VCPZACRMVXW4AM4AYIXU/
4 2
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April 28, 2024 4:47pm
- Mike
  
  But there will be no way to tell, unless we make it compulsory for gang members to wear their patches.
  
  4 1
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  April 28, 2024 4:52pm
- Inandout
  
  cmm, just keeps on keeping on despite Coalition promises.
  
  2 1
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  April 28, 2024 5:07pm
  - Ghost
    
    Did you expect that any government could turn around crime straight away?
    
    3 0
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    April 28, 2024 5:15pm
    - Inandout
      
      Ghost, please don’t let me hear you say that in 12 months time.
      
      1 2
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      April 28, 2024 5:53pm
      - Ghost
        
        Do you really think crime can be turned around this term ? Have you actually seen how bad things have got? The mess the justice system is in? The families breeding criminals and using them? The kids committing crimes for social media, etc Crime isn’t going to be a quick fix to turn around..
        
        1 1
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        April 28, 2024 6:09pm
    - cmm
      
      Ghost.
      
      No I don’t think they have the stomach to do what is required to turn it around in 6 months or even 12 months.
      
      Maybe they will be able to with time, but I very much doubt it.
      
      A stitch in time saves nine applies to many things, including social decay.
      
      1 1
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      April 28, 2024 7:48pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Yes fair point I believe. There is a lot of wreckage to clear away yet.
      
      1 0
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      April 28, 2024 8:53pm
- kevn
  
  cmm… I wonder what the outcome would be if all the glass cabinets were made of toughened glass?
  A hammer isn’t going to do anything.
  Fog cannons… pfft.
  
  2 2
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  April 28, 2024 5:54pm
  - cmm
    
    I wonder what would happen if a few shopkeepers resisted.
    
    1 1
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    April 28, 2024 7:49pm
cmm

I am surprised that the MSM haven’t yet tackled Luxon over homelessness.

Almost every day I drive past two locations in Christchurch frequented by people living in cars.

This has been an ongoing issue, but the numbers in these locations have shot up a lot lately. Today there were at least 25 (I would guess over 30) vehicles at one location and at least 15 (I would guess 20) at the other.

At the one location there are now also some shacks built out of sticks and plastic.

I don’t blame the people for parking together. There is strength in numbers.

Yup, Christchurch, 2024.
5 1
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April 28, 2024 4:53pm
- Mike
  
  Deliberate policy choices since 1970s to increase the population, reduce per capita GDP and exacerbate inequalities.
  
  3 0
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  April 28, 2024 4:59pm
- wsk12345
  
  Quite a few living in cars and vans in the red zone too
  
  0 0
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  April 28, 2024 8:24pm
- Ghost
  
  They’re not cars, they’re tiny homes 😁
  
  0 0
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  April 28, 2024 8:55pm
Maggie Pie

Is there anyone else who takes the lettuce & gerkin out of their Hamburgers?

I just came in for a bit of sh*t from others at the table 🙁
0 4
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April 28, 2024 6:25pm
- Ghost
  
  I remove the gherkin, vile. If some idiot has over piled the lettuce I remove some.
  
  1 1
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  April 28, 2024 6:29pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Gosh, you are eating lowbrow tonight MP?
  
  1 1
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  April 28, 2024 8:55pm
- jkt
  
  Yes … it is just you.
  The best parts of a burger. Other than the beer.
  
  2 0
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  April 28, 2024 9:33pm
Albie

Interesting comments from you Ghost and MP.
Over the summer I work on developing the perfect cheeseburger, experimenting with types of beef and fat percentages.
One thing I picked up from travelling the US that appealed to me was having dill pickles, thick slice tomato, lettuce and American cheese. The stack sequence is very important!
You can always go down the meat cheese onion rings and applewood bacon route but to me that’s cardiac material.
2 0
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April 28, 2024 7:53pm

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