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February 6, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 06 February 2024

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General Debate

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Rich Prick

Happy Harawira Day everyone.
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February 6, 2024 8:01am
- Vinicius
  
  The organisers of the events at Waitangi yesterday lamely apologised afterwards. They surely knew that having Hone Harawira and Annette Sykes speak before the PM and other senior government ministers would lead to inflammatory rhetoric and rude behaviour.
  
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  February 6, 2024 8:09am
  - artemisia
    
    Yes the apology was lame. Guess they preferred the visitors to be insulted.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:00am
- sirknz
  
  What time is the annual screaming of grievances scheduled for today?
  
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  February 6, 2024 8:16am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Also happy ending Cannibalism day.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:32am
  - kowtow
    
    Don’t mention the slaves.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:59am
  - Colinxy
    
    Well apart from eye swallowing, e.g Volkner.
    
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    February 6, 2024 11:35am
- all true
  
  send these people back into their cave and concreting the entrance to the cave close.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:40am
- Handyman
  
  The left’s habit of all spin and no substance reached its peak with Ardern.
  The coalition is concentrating on substance but, I submit, not enough spin.
  
  The upcoming bill should be called the “Honour the Treaty Bill” which clearly puts into law and reinforces the three articles of the treaty.
  
  Ministers answering questions should insist media called the bill the correct name.
  It will be easy to show the treaty articles and the bill side by side.
  Totally ignore any reference to principles after 1840; make it about honouring the treaty.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:46am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Ardern was cooking sausages and bacon for a public breakfast ahead of her Waitangi events. Be Kind.
    Aside from kowtowing to Maori (and Pacifica) and letting the Maori caucus run all transformational change in NZ/Aotearoa she came with heavily salted and nitrate infused meats.
    Next year, Luxon Seymour and Winnie need to throw out KFC to the crowd.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:30am
    - thirteenstars
      
      Kawanatanga-Free Chicken.
      
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      February 6, 2024 12:37pm
    - peterwn
      
      Take your pick – dildo or KFC drumstick.
      
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      February 6, 2024 12:44pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Ardern cook the men some eggs, so glad Luxon did not try to emulate, it shows Ardern as a weak duck ass that had nothing to offer
      
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      February 6, 2024 3:25pm
- hullkiwi
  
  It has been reported that Winston Peters on his return to Auckland has said,
  
  “I’ve been to at Waitangi many times over the years, and that this year it has been the worst. Nghapui did themselves no favours”.
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:01am
  - Damocles11
    
    Every year it is the same, bad & sometimes worse. Is this year worse than the year Key was assaulted? It would be hard to argue it is; the assault of a Prime Minister is outrageous.
    We are all hostages of Waitangi. The silent majority are. The centre right politicians are. Any Maori who don’t join with the activist hive mind are. Our collective agony will continue, unfortunately.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:33am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Peters only worrying about his self as usual
      
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      February 6, 2024 3:26pm
    - ISeeRed
      
      If only we had political leadership that simply said “No”.
      
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      February 6, 2024 4:23pm
- An Old Kiwi
  
  Sadly true. Or Happy Maori Elite Day.
  
  From https://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/waitangi-opinion-piece-from-brian-tamaki/8609/ :
  “Over the past six years, the Labour government have never had so much Māori funding to disperse, yet the Māori Elite Club lined their own pockets, and those of their mates, putting their own needs before those of the people. Māori, as a whole, have never been worse off in this country. Māori have the worst statistics in the prisons, health, education, crime, mental health, domestic violence…in every area of our society. It breaks my heart to see our Māori whānau suffer like this.
  
  Māori have failed Māori.
  
  It’s these Māori Elite that have been the real abusers of Māori in recent times – they have prohibited Māori from advancing and reaching their full potential. They have made Māori dependent and reliant on begging for money from government departments and asking for handouts. These Māori Elites are the ones who have ripped off Māori in our generation. Just ask most everyday Māori if they have personally seen any of the billions in Māori funding that has been given to these Māori Elite, and 99% will tell you they saw none of it over these past 6 years.”
  
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  February 6, 2024 12:28pm
  - Paulus
    
    The Maori Elite are the University educated, now professionals, which we paid for. to become so called educated.
    
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    February 6, 2024 1:28pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      Indeed, the Māori elite is being absorbed into the Professional Managerial Class/Caste (PMC) where the path to success runs through the university and government consultancy gigs.
      We have to call them out on this.
      
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      February 6, 2024 4:28pm
  - Damocles11
    
    This country was looted by Labour. The money was borrowed and passed to their mates. It was tens of billions of dollars. And it was all legal to do this apparently. Just heartbreaking.
    
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    February 6, 2024 3:02pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  H Clark got it right as PM when she simply ignored Waitangi after it was turned into a shitshow.
  
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  February 6, 2024 6:32pm
Yvette

Māori activist Tāme Iti was very impressive and original yesterday, from his appearance himself to actions like proceeding his hikoi to the detail of what he prescribed his followers wear and carry, to looking over his shoulder continually to check people behind were in formation, especially the young barefoot woman leading the group.

But I have a thing about car convoys – police vehicles leading funerals or Presidential processions, JFK, ambulances parting the way through snarled traffic, firetrucks as depicted in low angle tracking shots at the start of BACKDRAFT – but it is emotion, drama without identifiable meaning.

“How does that make you feel in you manawa your heart to see them here today?” Newshub asked.
“There is hope for a change in this country,” he responded.
The white flags signalled a blank canvas or a fresh start, but not the sort of fresh start the Coalition Government is talking about.
“I don’t really care about the Government, or what they are going to do, it’s not my issue. We’re just going to carry on and be who we are,” he said.
With the hikoi now two or three times its original size, the art protest painted a powerful picture, even if no one really knew how it would end up looking.
“What happens at the end?” Newshub asked [Mike]King.
“I have no clue, but it’s going to be awesome,” he laughed.

An empty canvas may be incredibly awesome, but without substance or meaning it remains empty later.

So still – which Treaty is anyone talking about:
the 1840 original or the 1980s renaissance revision version?
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February 6, 2024 8:01am
- Beach Haven expat
  
  Very interesting the left balance voice on RNZ’s politics rundown yesterday, from Radio Waatea, said Tame Iti had been jailed for his political beliefs. This was not challenged, rather worryingly.
  Iti was jailed after being convicted of a crime. The crime was not his political beliefs. Jailed while pursuing his political beliefs would be correct, but NZ is not East Germany. You do not get jailed for having the wrong opinion.
  The danger is this type of phrasing makes opinions become fact and is how by creeping stealth the culture wars are won.
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:39am
  - thirteenstars
    
    “This was not challenged, rather worryingly.”
    
    Neo-Marxist modus operandi for decades. It’s not just hyperbole, mischaracterisation or truth-bending, it’s a deliberate political tactic designed to create a new narrative.
    
    For a couple of months now the mantra has been that the Treaty is being rewritten or done away with completely. This lie is reported uncritically by the media because they too are agents of the revolution.
    
    Keep repeating the lie and it becomes the reality.
    
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    February 6, 2024 12:45pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Thirteenstars: “For a couple of months now the mantra has been that the Treaty is being rewritten or done away with completely. This lie is reported uncritically by the media because they too are agents of the revolution.”
      
      Their loony-left tax-funded media cousins in Australia (SBS & ABC) are pumping the same lies about NZ Waitangi day.
      
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      February 6, 2024 5:17pm
      - thirteenstars
        
        That’s so ironic because Sky News Australia will probably be interviewing Kiwis about how pointless WD is, perhaps even Winston Peters who appears there regularly.
        
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        February 6, 2024 6:38pm
      - Burtland
        
        this occurred on the BBC this morning – Waitangi made the news – some Australian journalist presented the Leftist slant.
        
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        February 7, 2024 10:10pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    “phrasing makes opinions become fact and is how by creeping stealth the culture wars are won”
    and
    “Keep repeating the lie and it becomes the reality”
    are both pretty good descriptions of “Hyperstition”.
    That’s a superstition kicked up to the next level, the belief makes the concept real. It’s voodoo that actually works.
    The concept was developed by the philosopher Nick Land in the Cybernetic Culture Research Unit (CCRU) in the mid 90s. Nick land and the CCRU are worth checking out, but be careful, he swims in some pretty deep and dark waters.
    
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    February 6, 2024 4:47pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

I’m a newcomer to New Zealand, but Waitangi Day is obviously the annual celebration where the descendants of the original inhabitants give thanks to the descendants of their treaty partners for:

* Christianity
* Literacy
* Written language
* Mathematics
* Cartography
* Measurement of time
* Guitars
* Fruit & vegetables
* Mammalian meat
* Chicken
* Metal tools
* Ceramics
* Wool and cotton cloth
* Horses
* The wheel
* Gears
* Buttons
* Trousers
* Shoes
* Reticulated water
* Public and private sanitation
* Western medicine
* Ocean-going travel (Maoris used to have this but forgot how)
* Housing with impermeable roofs, glass windows and wooden floors
* Money
* Citizenship of a first world country

All of which were brought to or available to Maoris from this day, 184 years ago.
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February 6, 2024 8:03am
- kowtow
  
  Pigs, in the 17oo’s courtesy of those dastardly Euro explorers /discoverers.
  
  Decolonisation means no more pork.
  
  Colonialism ended long pig and slavery. Perhaps decolonism could bring it back.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:40am
- David Garrett
  
  Nevermind: By Gad Sir, you are quick on the uptake, and no mistake! Yep, all those brown people – many with drawing over part or all of their faces – are there precisely for the purpose you suggest – to celebrate and give thanks for all the myriad benefits benevolent colonization brought to them and their descendants.
  
  They are forever grateful that the French – or heaven forbid the Dutch or the Spanish – didn’t get here first.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:40am
  - imalwaysright
    
    I like Bob Jones idea that maori should be bringing all the rest of us breakfast in bed!
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:10am
    - peterwn
      
      Then they will come into the bedroom with the tray and say ‘why don’t you get up you lazy bastard’ as a maid (probably the Publican’s wife) told him at a West Coast hotel.
      
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      February 6, 2024 12:52pm
  - rouppe
    
    Did you not hear that woman saying she wished the French had done it because then they’d be eating croissants?
    
    Completely blind to how Algeria, the Ivory Coast, Mali and Vietnam were treated, and – with the possible exception of Vietnam – the standard of living is now
    
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    February 6, 2024 11:47am
    - Don Beckett
      
      And what’s more, escargot with those croissants. 😆
      
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      February 6, 2024 12:53pm
- Tempist
  
  But what have the Romans ever done for us…!?!
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:17am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Wow – that’s inviting a huge list.
    
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    February 6, 2024 12:54pm
- rouppe
  
  They had chicken. Really big ones. But they killed them all
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:45am
  - John Loveridge
    
    Did they have the Kentucky Fried part? Or was it all just steamed to an unappealing soggy mess in a hole in the ground?
    
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    February 6, 2024 12:07pm
- Dave
  
  * Fruit & vegetables, including grains & potatoes plus modern agriculture;
  * The wheel and metal tools and mechanisation;
  * Fossil fuels;
  * Refrigeration;
  * Electricity.
  
  It’s often forgotten, or unknown, in the West that European standards of living and productivity were the same as or worse than China’s and India’s until about 1800 when industrialisation and colonialism, (especially in India in the form of discriminatory tariffs) enabled the West to pull ahead.
  
  From decades ago I remember an indignant, but chic, Donna Awatere (Huata, as she might have been by then) lamenting on TV in sorrowful tones the replacement of majestic kauri by mere grass, and wondering how many imported goods, paid for by grass, she was prepared to forgo.
  
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  February 6, 2024 3:27pm
Suze Wainwright

Simon Wilson has penned an article scathing of Christopher Luxon in this morning’s Herald.

In other news, scientists have observed that the weather in aotearoa’s summer season can get quite hot.
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February 6, 2024 8:04am
- pdm
  
  `Simon Wilson has penned an article scathing of Christopher Luxon in this morning’s Herald.’
  
  I think Wilson’s limited intellect rules him out of writing anything other than criticism of the current Government and/or Christopher Luxon..
  
  Suze – all very well giving us a weather report for that mythical place called Aotearoa but, do you by any chance have a weather report for the country I live in – New Zealand!!!
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:31am
  - Paulus
    
    I did not vote to change the name of my Country, neither did I vote for the Waitangi Tribunal.
    Get rid of both now and stop New Zealand being laughed at internationally as well.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:54am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Simon who?
  
  Do they still give him space for a column? Let me guess. Luxon is secretly plotting to sell babies to the tobacco industry?
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:33am
- Hollyfield
  
  Christopher Luxon talked about unity and improving people’s lives; Simon Wilson called the speech “outrageous”.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:34am
  - riffer
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Go read the article again. That is not what he said.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:02am
    - kowtow
      
      yes it is.
      
      And not just “outrageous” , he accused Luxon of being insulting .
      
      And further he went on to say the day belonged to Sykes and Iti .
      
      Wilson is dangerously delusional.
      
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      February 6, 2024 10:21am
      - oldpark
        
        @kowtow 10.21am
        
        I think the NZ Herald attack dog Wilson against Non Maori and our elected Prime Minister Christopher Luxon sums up the Poison type of News that the newspaper and their other kneecapping news outlet NZME or Newstalk ZB Turn out on their daily hourly news bulletins . Especially the one sided Maori propaganda against 83% of NZs population . Go Figure .
        
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        February 6, 2024 11:37am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christopher-luxons-outrageous-waitangi-speech-simon-wilson/O2PPISJPSZHIVNZKODN3NQFBEQ/
      
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      February 6, 2024 10:33am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      And since it is behind a paywall, I’ll add some snips to show irony of the retort of Riffer suggesting someone ‘read it again’ and asserting this was NOT said.
      
      Actually these were the main points Simon concludes upon rather.
      Surprise surprise: Simon has the worst possible take on someone speaking about common aspirations of all NZers (economics) rather that making out that Te Reo is the biggest issue for Maori (i.e: that unless the government gives the Metservice a Maori name, their language will die out 😉 )
      
      {quote} “Outrageous? Clever? Was it both? Whatever you think about the Prime Minister’s speech at Waitangi yesterday, his message could not have been clearer. We do not want to talk about the Treaty of Waitangi, and we do not want to talk about te reo. So we’re not going to.
      
      Christopher Luxon didn’t use those words. But he made himself plain by barely mentioning either of the flashpoint topics of the Waitangi commemorations.
      
      He would rather talk about growing the economy, because he believes that will benefit Māori. And he would rather talk about education and housing, because he believes making them better will benefit Māori too. So that’s what he did.
      
      Asked later how he could not have realised the thousands of people on the Treaty Grounds expected some response to the big issues of the moment, he changed the subject.
      
      This was certainly outrageous.
      On an enormously significant occasion of state, the Prime Minister chose not to rise to it. His speech was ditchwater dull…
      
      …..These ritualised signs of unity are not unprecedented but they are rare. This was historical and Māori at Waitangi could not have made their combined strength of purpose more plain.
      
      For Luxon not to acknowledge this was insulting.”
      
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      February 6, 2024 10:44am
- Jack5
  
  Simon Wilson’s babble is behind the Herald paywall. Let NZME please keep it there.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:39am
  - kowtow
    
    You’re not missing anything.
    
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    February 6, 2024 11:01am
  - Paulus
    
    In my NZME Country Paper today there is an excellent article by Dr Paul Moon from Auckland University on the Treaty .
    I have never seen such a succinct comment analysis of it and precise and compactly done.
    Cannot find it on line though as Herald does not people to read it.
    Well worth in my opinion.
    
    [Mod – check here PUBLICATIONS]
    
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    February 6, 2024 1:33pm
- kowtow
  
  I get the distinct impression the editors at NZME have given licence to Wilson and Pearse to be the raving lunatic attack dog tag team.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:44am
Positan

I’m sad to say it, but I’m now absolutely sick of “Waitangi Day. I’m fed up with all the inflammatory day-by-day coverage of “developments” in the lead up to it, and I’m sick of TV1’s one-sided, solely pro-Maori coverage, night after night, bent towards perpetrating the demonstrable myth that Maori have been hard done by in the nearly 200 years since the Treaty was signed. From the very outset it’s an absolute disgrace that TV1 has been doing its very utmost to undermine the position of our newly elected government.

I’ve had a gutsfull of all the “Treaty-related” nonsense we’ve been forced to swallow for so many months. The attempts at demonstrably-bent re-interpretations of what was so very clear to those present at the time of the signing.

I’ve had it with the unwelcome insistence of media front-persons to commence news-casts in non-understandable “te reo” and their continued obliteration of our English language with completely inane and unnecessary substitution of Maori words and phrases.

I’m totally fed-up with the endless moaning of Maori “leaders” and their unjustifiable claims. How stupid, pathetic and gutless have been successive administrations that they’d accommodate three “full and final” (which, in plain English, means FULL AND FINAL) settlements with Maori, with billions transferred in the last one, and yet still pay heed to the ravings of self-serving malcontents who threaten “war” if a Bill on a Treaty referendum to make the actual status of the Treaty clear to all New Zealanders goes ahead?

I’m appalled that the coalition’s leader hasn’t acted even slightly forcefully to force TVNZ and Radio NZ to cease their seditious behaviour and the constancy of their anti-government stance. How about cutting their funding? It’s utterly outrageous that after Hipkin’s and Labour’s wrecking crew of inepts and incompetents were booted from office, acknowledged worldwide as “the worst ever administration in NZ history”, that so much media focus should be accorded the thoroughly discredited Hipkins, Robertson et al and allow them to criticise the government. They sustain what’s essentially treachery and treason by the state-owned media.

While we’ve been raised to believe that “the challenge” on entering the Treaty grounds was to be answered peacefully by the picking-up of the sprig, we saw the extent of intimidation levelled at Luxon, Peters and especially Seymour prior to them doing so. Semi-clad, tattooed “warriors” yelling, mouthing and brandishing taiaha at single, unarmed individuals on this occasion came across solely as gutlessly attempted bullying. The rudeness of those who sought to drown out Seymour’s speech and the rudeness of many Maori toward their invited guests; goodness, why bother to waste time going again?

Isn’t it time we realised that such conduct by Maori does not convey that they are honourable people? Three “full and final” settlements and the perpetuation of a gravy train through constant attempts to make the obvious and originally accepted meaning of the Treaty now mean something it never did? The saddest thing to see televised was just how corrupt were those Maori children’s understandings of how the Treaty had been abused. It behoves BIG future problems.

Why are we allowing this sad and disruptive state to so affect the one-happy relations we enjoyed? Are we going to continue to do so?

It’s way past time we put a complete stop to it – once and for all.
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February 6, 2024 8:05am
- Souvlaki
  
  Lets hope National Ministers read this excellent synoposis Positan…and take it on board holus bolus!
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:52am
  - Positan
    
    Souvlaki, I’d hope they would but, as a Nat of 55 years, I’m almost completely disillusioned with the indecisive state of the Party and the PC-wokeness of its “leadership.” Like many other Nats I know, Luxon’s wishy-washy, bob-each-way, feet-astride-the-fence stances now have so many of us pretty well on the point of resigning for good.
    “Leadership” means “balls” – the simon-pure courage backed by practical intelligence to address what needs to be addressed, positively and assertively. National has pandered to Maori for far too long and now, head-on confrontation with all the backing of the state apparatus simply has to be faced as a necessary option.
    Sadly, Luxon is no Sid Holland, who in 1951 faced down striking watersiders for three months – and if he doesn’t feel up to this assuredly looming task, he should step aside now. The country’s successful future will depend on it.
    Remember, back in 1951, in the snap election called for by Labour’s wishy-washy Walter Nash, after the strike was called off, how Holland increased National’s existing 12 seat majority to 20 seats.
    Labour naturally, had been on the side of the strikers.
    
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    February 6, 2024 12:14pm
    - peterwn
      
      Join ACT then, but you will probably have a similar criticism of them after being there a while.
      
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      February 6, 2024 12:58pm
    - peterwn
      
      “Luxon’s wishy-washy, bob-each-way, feet-astride-the-fence stances” – remember ‘Softee softee catchee monkey’.
      
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      February 6, 2024 1:09pm
      - septic skeptic
        
        Yeah yeah, Luxon is playing 4D chess…except he isn’t.
        
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        February 6, 2024 9:00pm
- Tom Barker
  
  I’ve got bad news for you dude. Te Tiriti isn’t going anywhere. If anything, it’s playing a greater part in our national identity than ever.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:57am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    I know. It’s true. It is awful, and toxic and misused.
    Which is why the conversation that Seymour is trying to have is very important. Critical even, for the direction of NZ as a modern pluralist and egalitarian society.
    Far too important to be misrepresented in literal intent and form than the enemedia and quoted activists. It seems like efforts to actively mislead the low-information public.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:48am
  - gravedodger
    
    Yep yip that is what it is Tom Barker, watching cricinfo to keep an eye on Mt Maunganui Cricket test and in reply to a question it was stated Waitangi Day commemorates the signing of the Nations “founding document”. No mention of the bringing tribal warfare to an end with accompanying ending of slavery, cannibalism, ethnic cleansing, and additionally signing over sovereignty to the United Kingdom and Queen Victoria by unelected “chiefs” acting on behalf of their serfs.
    
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    February 6, 2024 11:47am
  - Taieri
    
    If anything, it’s playing a greater part in our national identity than ever
    ————
    
    What national “identity”?
    In the country where 27.4% of its population was born overseas?
    
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    February 6, 2024 11:50am
  - Beach Haven expat
    
    The fact te tiriti is so widely used when previously it was always The Treaty indicates the literal genocide of te reo is crap. Or poha.
    
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    February 6, 2024 12:08pm
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  I agree. The last Government’s maori caucus members had Labour over a barrel with their ability to remove Labour’s majority and thus got their noses in the trough in ways that go way beyond what was made public. They are now using b$&#hit to try and maintain that gravy train. Thanks to the MSM we are being force fed their viewpoint. Too many kiwis get all their “news” from TV and the newspapers so don’t realise how biased it is. I have noticed that the Herald is running better quality articles amongst the dross
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:09am
- Unity
  
  I absolutely agree with you Positan. I too am fed up to the eyeballs with all this Maori nonsense. They don’t seem to have grown up one iota since 1840. Surely all the stomping, snarling, protruding tongues and bare bottoms should have long gone from their culture in the almost 200 years that have passed. Most cultures move on from how they behaved all those years ago but ‘this lot’ are worse than ever. They are making our country look like a backward violent and aggressive nation. Goodness knows what other countries think of us. I’m not proud to be a New Zealander today. Disgusting goings on.
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:58am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Maori generally have grown up – go back a couple of generations and you never heard of this bullshit. Most Maori worked for a living.
    But some Maori have regressed, sadly, and the elite ‘influencers’ are dragging many Maori down with them, as can be seen by the statistics as mentioned by Brian Tamaki.
    Don’t tar all Maori with the same brush.
    
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    February 6, 2024 1:05pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      There are a ton of Maori descendants in Australia. Many seem embarrassed at the BS that has infested NZ. Some even call NZ a “sh*thole.
      
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      February 6, 2024 5:26pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        It’s a good point (not the sh*thole bit which I strongly disagree with). The one group of Māori that the New Zealand Māori can’t control is the Australian Māori. Iwi tribal politics has not leverage in Canberra.
        Māori in OZ, living well, working hard, spending and investing wisely, can look back over the Tasman at their cousins whose path to success is complaining loudly and getting onto some sort of overt or covert government welfare scheme.
        
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        February 6, 2024 6:28pm
- John Loveridge
  
  Me too, mate.
  
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  February 6, 2024 12:09pm
BarryB

The Ukraine.
The USA has lost interest in this mess (no surprise as they have more important challenges somewhat south of the Ukraine) and the EU have been forced into supporting Zelenskyy by promising €50 billion in aid.
But this is not going down well within the EU. If the EU can throw this much at what has to be dubious situation that Ukraine finds itself in, then why cant they put a few billions into supporting EU farmers? Or increasing welfare or probably a hundred other things that the EU needs. And most of this money will go to the US in the form of paying for more artillery munitions etc.
Further angering the EU farmers, Ukraine products (from agriculture) have been given open entry into the EU and this annoys the EU farmers even more.
The war is at a stalemate. Both the Ukraine and Russia have big problems. The Ukraine are simply running out of soldiers (some have been at the front for over 2 years – that’s way too long for someone to retain serious attention to the situation) and the Russian military continue with its ham-fisted way of running a war. There seems no way that anything will change from the re-run of WW1 tactics and sooner or later everyone ie: the suppliers of the money – will get tired of it and then it will finish with the big loser being the people of the Ukraine – a wrecked country.

Meanwhile in the middle East the Houthis continue to try and ruin Egypt – yes Egypt. By effectively closing the Suez canal the fees Egypt gets from the canal has dropped from around US$ 600million+ a month (US$9 billion in 2021-22) to something like US$300million a month in Jan 2024. The canal income makes up 10% of GDP for Egypt.
Meanwhile the Houthis attacks have little or no effect on Israel but do boost the income for both the US and UK military munitions manufacturers.
There is something of a short circuit in the thinking of many of these organisations in the Middle east……..

On the other hand there is no doubt that Israel is really, really pissed off with the Hamas. The ongoing action in Gaza reminds me of a typical Biblical story where conflicts didn’t cease with one party giving up – but they finished when the losers were totally eliminated – much like Maori tribal conflicts where the winners killed every one – men, women and children of the beaten tribe and only those who escaped lived on.

Of course the big question is : Why don’t Egypt and Jordan and Syria and Lebanon take in the Palestinians? Answer –
1. That would remove the need for a two state solution (which wont happen in any live lifes time).
2. The Palestinians cause just as much trouble in those countries as they do in Israel. Egypt lay a lot of the blame for the Arab Spring on Palestinians.
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February 6, 2024 8:05am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  “…there’s a million candles burning for the help that never came…you want it darker?”
  Leonard Cohen (You want it darker?)
  
  https://youtu.be/v0nmHymgM7Y?si=_ymD3zIpS3VC38LK
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:25am
- kowtow
  
  ‘The USA has lost interest in this mess’
  
  yes, that’s why the so called border bill ( US $118 billion) includes $60 B for Ukraine and a piddling $20 B for the border .
  
  As to Euro and farmers ; the whole European project is a scam to make Germany subsidise the relatively poor and inefficient French agricultural sector . ( and all the rest).
  
  Huge funds are poured into ag across the EU and farmers there need to question the fact that their standards of living rests not on their own efforts ( as they do largely here) but on taxpayer subsidies and protectionist trade policies.
  
  That’s why their govts feel so entitled/enabled to tell farmers ( and others) what to do . Cos they rely on them , like welfare beneficiaries do , who contrary to your post also do very well there, thank you very much.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:56am
  - mawm
    
    Kowtow – That’s $60 billion for the American armaments industry under the guise of supplying Ukraine with materiel. Washington is trying to extract the last amount of taxpayer money for themselves and their mates as America loses yet another war.
    
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    February 6, 2024 11:00am
    - rouppe
      
      Ukraine isn’t paying for the supplies, it’s coming from USA aid money.
      
      You can’t get richer by paying yourself money you already have – or have to borrow.
      
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      February 6, 2024 12:05pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        That Bill you mention will not see the light of day – it’s an atrocious bill designed to make the border crisis worse. The GOP will stop it in it’s tracks, which will also eliminate the money for Ukraine & Gaza.
        
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        February 6, 2024 1:11pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Ukraine war is developing into more and more rigid positional stalemate with increasingly autonomous, longer range and more numerous hunter-killer drones (millions a year) making no-man’s land ever wider and more lethal. Effective assaults now are limited to small 5-15 groups of infantry, and come with huge casualties (often 70% or more).
  
  What is changing however is that Ukraine is getting more and more long range strike capacity and using it to hit economically (oil) and militarily (weapons factories) critical targets deep in Russia while irreplaceable high value weapons like ships and aircraft (and their crews) are being lost at ever increasing rate. The cost of war is rapidly escalating for Russia and it’s undefendable infrastructure. They also have hundreds of billions of assets in west that are likely to be handed to Ukraine.
  
  Russia is also running out of weapons – with barrel-scraping 70year old T54 tanks now being seen frequently on the battle field and cold-war artillery storage depots majorly depleted. The north korean ammunition they now rely on is barely useable.
  
  At this rate I expect Russia to seek peace in next year, and guess that new border will be approximately where front line is now. Only thing that might change that is if Ukraine get access to large numbers (tens of thousands) of JDAM glide bombs for F16s they are about to receive to allow them to wipe out deep Russian trench defenses in Zaporezhzhia and make it to sea of Azov.
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:25am
  - mawm
    
    Hmm … It’s amazing what a poorly armed, demoralised Russia can do against the best of the West. //sarc.
    
    Day after day the Russians are taking Ukrainian defensive strongholds, something the Ukrainians were unable to do to the Russian defensive line. Look what is happening at Avdeevka, possibly the Ukies strongest defensive position, and you’ll realise that the Western propaganda is just that.
    
    Russia is way ahead on weapon development. The Russians have just brought the TOS-2 Tosochka Thermobaric Rockets into play. Let’s see what happens.
    
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    February 6, 2024 11:09am
    - NothingLeft
      
      Russia have had about 100k casualties in their winter offensive over last 3 months as well as thousands of tanks, armoured personnel carriers and artillery pieces, they’ve lost $10’s of billions of equipment in that period to gain perhaps a couple of hundred km² of territory. Similar to what Ukraine took during their summer campaign.
      
      They are losing materiel at 10x the rate they can manufacture it. That’s not what winning looks like in the real world.
      
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      February 6, 2024 11:26am
      - Jake Dee
        
        You’re just pulling those numbers out of thin air. Entirely new military units are being formed while troops in the field are being rotated out and their numbers are still growing. Look at the totally new systems that are being fielded, FAB bombs and lancet drones for example. None of this is a sign of a military nearing collapse.
        
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        February 6, 2024 5:06pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        Multiple independent sources are confirming this general picture. (Institute for study of war, Andrew Perpetua, etc)
        
        Russian propaganda is in contrast utterly laughable with ongoing Russian claims that they have destroyed multiples of entire actual inventory of Ukrainian equipment, it is literally fantastic.
        
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        February 6, 2024 9:35pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      “…best of the West…”:
      
      Ukraine, with a few exceptions in the form of limited quantities of medium range missiles, is fighting using mostly obsolete ‘surplus’ cold-war era weapons system hand-me-downs from west. Stuff that was otherwise awaiting scrapping. If they had been given access to all of West’s modern weapons in useful volumes from start of war Russia would have been defeated long ago (assuming no nuclear escalation). But west has been very slow to supply long range weapons fearing escalation – forcing Ukraine to fight an attritional defensive war to wear down Russian military.
      
      Ukraine has been developing indigenous drone warfare because west won’t supply modern weapons in needed quantities, and ironically in the process has made a lot of modern western military equipment obsolete.
      
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      February 6, 2024 12:12pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        That “assuming no nuclear escalation” is a pretty big assumption to make a pretty big problem if you get that assumption wrong.
        There is no “wonder weapon” that could have been deployed to ensure victory for the west here. What could it have been, the F-35? All of that level gear would have require NATO troops to run it and once they are obviously in the field its WWIII.
        
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        February 6, 2024 5:13pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        Landing heavy bombs on defenses is the critical lack in Ukrainian military – meaning they can’t overwhelm Russian trench networks. Glide bombs like JDAMS that can be launched by F16s from 70km behind the front line (fairly safe from missile defenses), and Nato and USA hold something like 100,000 in stores. USA has sent 15000 JDAMS to Israel in last few months that would have changed the war if Ukraine had had them during last summer’s offensive (and if surplus F16’s had been given to Ukraine in 2022 rather than mid 2024
        
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        February 6, 2024 9:43pm
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      I follow the Ukrainian situation quite closely. Russia has made almost no headway in it’s winter offensive. So no, Russia is not “day after day taking Ukrainian defensive strongholds”. They have taken considerably less territory than Ukraine did in its summer offensive.
      In short, the front line has barely shifted in the last 9 months. You might think that is a basis for a ceasefire. Something that I reckon will happen sometime this year when both sides realise they can make little headway against the other.
      
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      February 6, 2024 4:50pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        The front line is moving in one direction only and that’s westwards. The goal here is to destroy the Ukrainian military, a war of attrition, and that’s working.
        
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        February 6, 2024 5:16pm
- Handyman
  
  The USA will fight to the last Ukranian soldier. After that they will call for a truce similar to the Korean solution and put Nato troops on the new de facto border.
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:12am
Chuck Bird

I heard Winston Peters on ZB this morning and he is right about the ignorant activist Maori there. He is right their actions were unbecoming Maori. A bit of heckling is okay but drowning out speakers is unacceptable.

It seems Peters and Seymour are on the same page. No one speaks for all Maori.
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February 6, 2024 8:07am
- Scott
  
  I find Waitangi day a disturbing and disgraceful spectacle. The Maori elders and chiefs who allow this should be ashamed of themselves.
  
  I’m sick of Maori radicalism supporting by woke pakeha egging them on.
  
  One nation, one people, one rule of law for all.
  
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  February 6, 2024 8:15am
  - riffer
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Ok, cool.
    
    Let’s all be Maori.
    
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    February 6, 2024 9:23am
    - Opie
      
      Sweet. All new Zealanders are now referred to as Maori.
      
      Solves all the bad stats along with any kind of favoritism based on race.
      
      This is the outcome that the majority want. Couldn’t care less what people are called as long as they have equal rights and responsibilities
      
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      February 6, 2024 9:34am
      - pdm
        
        `All new Zealanders are now referred to as Maori.’
        
        Not me Opie.
        
        I am a New Zealander.
        
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        February 6, 2024 9:52am
      - riffer
        
        You splitter pdm. No wonder we can’t have nice things 😉
        
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        February 6, 2024 10:03am
      - igm
        
        Do we now all get benefits and not need to work?
        
        18 1
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        February 6, 2024 10:32am
      - Paulus
        
        Where is New Zealand – to Maori it has been given surreptitiously another name !
        We did not change our national name !
        
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        February 6, 2024 10:59am
    - backster
      
      Yep then we would all have equal access to Health Treatment.
      
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      February 6, 2024 10:02am
    - Close Hen Counters
      
      Oooohh yes please – then my kids don’t have to sweat to get into preferential university courses, I can get free taxi rides to hospital appointments, first on the list for surgery/investigations … bring it on
      
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      February 6, 2024 10:48am
      - riffer
        
        Sure.
        
        You can also have worse average living conditions, job opportunities and health outcomes.
        
        Quid pro quo and all.
        
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        February 6, 2024 1:29pm
      - Countrygirl
        
        Don’t forget KFC and grocery vouchers for getting vaccinated.
        
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        February 6, 2024 1:53pm
      - Ghost
        
        The vouchers were aimed at anyone unvaccinated, not just Māori
        
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        February 6, 2024 1:55pm
      - Ghost
        
        Knowing a few specialists here, their lists are populated by those in greater need, not ethnic group.
        
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        February 6, 2024 1:57pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      That’s not what Article 3 of the Treaty, which Maori tupuna signed, promised them though.
      We should not just tear up the Treaty, Riffer.
      If we get back to what is written there, and really try to understand the context and the conversations at the time, it might be salvaged for the better.
      
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      February 6, 2024 10:53am
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Stop making it about ethnicity!
      
      Being one nation doesn’t mean losing your individuality but belonging to a bigger collective. A bigger stronger Tribe so to speak.
      
      The constant focus on differences and perpetualisation of the Maori victim mentality with the express purpose of gaining a stronger position over others in the collective is destructive and tiresome.
      
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      February 6, 2024 11:29am
    - JJ56
      
      ‘Let’s all be Maori’
      
      Fraid not. Increasingly the prerogative to decide that is transferring to Iwi.
      
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      February 6, 2024 11:37am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        ‘Let’s all be Maori’
        
        Why? Does young riffer want Maori tribal rule over NZ? Pretty sure he hasn’t thought through how that would end up.
        
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        February 6, 2024 5:32pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      Riffer can you even listen to yourself ?
      “Let’s all be Maori.”
      plus
      “You can also have worse average living conditions, job opportunities and health outcomes.”
      “Quid pro quo and all.”
      
      If everyone becomes Maori, presumably just by reclassifying everyone, since nobody can change their race, then all racial disparities would just disappear. One racial group, one racial group average all racial group disparities vanish and everybody’s life would be EXACTLY THE SAME!
      No change in genetic disorders, neither more or less exercise, eating, drinking smoking or drug use.
      A disparity in racial averages is just a statistical artifact, no something that exists in the real world.
      Making racial disparities your guide is either useless or perverse. Would an absolute decline in pakeha (and Asian) health, income or education actually HELP Māori?
      It would help racial disparity statistics.
      
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      February 6, 2024 5:35pm
  - David Garrett
    
    Scott: As I have said here before, while I strongly disapproved of Helen Clark and her social engineering – which was as nothing compared to what the last Labour gummint tried to impose on us all – she got one thing 100% right – her refusal to spend Waitangi Day being shouted at and having things thrown at her.
    
    As I recall, she spent every Waitangi Day on a different marae in different parts of the country. If Luxon had any balls, that is exactly what he would do. Leave the wankers to shout at each other, and have the Green Party and Labour lick their asses.
    
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    February 6, 2024 9:49am
    - Paulus
      
      I expect that to happen next year after he can say he has been to Waitangi, where he was insulted, which is all he needs not to go.
      
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      February 6, 2024 11:00am
      - JJ56
        
        I doubt it, he’s staying on message that its education health and housing, regardless of Iwi’s divisive view of the Treaty, and the government is quietly getting them focused on the important stuff.
        
        All going well Waitangi next year will be a different place.
        
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        February 6, 2024 11:45am
      - David Garrett
        
        JJ: All going well Waitangi next year will be a different place
        
        You cannot be serious!. In 2008 when John Key was physically assaulted, the Maori Party under Sharples and Turia were part of the fucking government! (Both later said they were treated with consideration and respect)
        
        What on earth makes you think next year will be any different from the circus it has been for the last 30 years at least?
        
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        February 6, 2024 12:34pm
      - JJ56
        
        some real progress on the issues that matter will split the ranks
        
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        February 6, 2024 1:22pm
- artemisia
  
  And Peeni Henare’s gun comment got a lot of air time. Referring to guns in that context of disrespect, hostility and aggressive spear waving (and worse) plenty of the population will draw their own conclusion.
  
  After all, what proportion of the population has even heard of ‘figurative’ or ‘metaphor’, let alone know what they mean?
  
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  February 6, 2024 8:20am
  - Notsofast
    
    To ask the question is sufficient to condemn the education methods that have trashed any reference to the stunning history of Europe and the arts.
    
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    February 6, 2024 9:24am
  - gravedodger
    
    At least Peeni Henare gun comment emphasised the main bit of the Treaty, about the ending of Muskery that raised the casualty rates beyond acceptable limits in intertribal conflict.
    
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    February 6, 2024 11:54am
  - Beach Haven expat
    
    Was give my missus loads of taxpayers’ cash or you’ll feel the jandal a metaphor misinterpreted as a command?
    
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    February 6, 2024 12:15pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Same at the Stop Co-Governance private meetings. The radical ignorant protesters are not true representatives of Maori, they are rent-a-mob.
  
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  February 6, 2024 8:33am
  - kowtow
    
    And don’t forget the role of the so called fourth estate in all this .
    
    Stirring , mis and dis informing .
    
    As per Adam Pearse of NZME reporting Henare’s “bugle” but not his gun .
    
    Any mention of Seymour being indecently exposed ?
    Or is the msm engaging in self censorship again on behalf of one of their priveliged groups.
    
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    February 6, 2024 8:48am
    - Paulus
      
      You don’t mean that the fourth estate is telling lies do you ?
      Jenna Lynch should stop shaking herself in some form of ecstasy, when she tells us how bad, the Coalition of Elected Parties, Government is.
      
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      February 6, 2024 11:04am
- Clyde
  
  It is a forlorn wish to even contemplate there being a single maori voice. The East Polynesian settlers were always based on tribalism and they remain so. The one thing that this country has is a form of democracy (buggered up a bit by having maori seats) and these ignorant rent-a-crowd mobsters contribute absolutely nothing to any serious discussion.
  
  The nonsense we saw yesterday with penis flapping and arse displays merely demonstrate the childish behaviour we can expect every year. I’m over it, and I hope that Luxon has the balls to join Peters and Seymour in telling this mob, “we won’t be back”.
  
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  February 6, 2024 8:55am
  - Damocles11
    
    CEO Luxon will be back next year for another shareholder meeting with the recalcitrant Iwi big wigs. He will probably recycle the same speech. Bland corporatism dictates an emotionless delivery of meaningless platitudes and buzzwords. Luxon will despair at his rogue executives straying ‘off message’ and allowing passion to override the company line.
    
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    February 6, 2024 9:23am
    - Sparrow
      
      I could not have summed it up better. BORING.
      He will never rock any boat. Forget the referendum it’s not going to happen. The review or whatever its called will drag on for years costing millions another gravy train for all and sundry. Sorry David Seymour you were on a loser from the beginning its not going to happen. If it does not directly impact people personally they don’t care about the apparent Māori gravy train, there are many more such as consultants on the government teat that our taxes are wasted on. That’s life all that changes is different snouts in the trough. Watch Utopia on Netflix its an updated Yes Minister. Those programs unfortunately reflect the reality of human nature.
      
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      February 6, 2024 11:29am
      - gravedodger
        
        A vote on the principles will not happen if the apathy and kowtowing allow it.
        This is possibly a last chance for New Zealand citizens to exercise their rights to enforce Hobsons actual pledge; ‘He iwi tahi tatou’.
        Anything less consigns the nation to penury and never ending racial division.
        
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        February 6, 2024 12:02pm
      - Damocles11
        
        Well National probably pushed through so many Treaty settlements because they could only see upsides: create a group of wealthy Maori and perhaps they will become aspirational & break with the Left. And think of the business opportunities to partner with cashed up Iwi! In the event, it hasn’t worked out well at all. Maori remain rusted on to the Left and are using the Treaty settlement money to hire more lawyers & advocates, to seek even greater power and opportunities for monetary gain.
        
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        February 6, 2024 1:20pm
      - julesnzuk
        
        Sparrow – your defeatist attitude is a big part of the problem.
        
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        February 6, 2024 1:57pm
    - JJ56
      
      Actually a bit of delivery on education, housing, health and infrastructure targeting those in need, with Iwi being co-opted to help will make the difference.
      
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      February 6, 2024 11:49am
  - Prince
    
    Oh but not showing up for the annual tantrum displays would be ‘disrepectful’ !
    
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    February 6, 2024 9:25am
  - David Garrett
    
    Clyde: Have Peters and Seymour said they won’t be back?? I am not in NZ at present, and news is limited up here.
    
    As an aside, while all the “right” kind of pakeha are having some kind of Waitangi celebration today, I and most of the NZers I know here weren’t invited. Probably a good thing, since if there were lengthy speeches in pidgin Maori I and my mates would have walked out.
    
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    February 6, 2024 9:53am
    - Clyde
      
      No, David, my meaning was that all three leaders should say that they won’t be back. As far as I know, no-one of the three has indicated any future plans.
      
      My point being that being “morally forced” to attend a stage managed piece of abusive theatre is stupid. Why would I go to a piece of theatre knowing I was going to be abused?
      
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      February 6, 2024 10:10am
- Piniwi
  
  Right Chuck Bird and we see already their call for unity which will only be heard by a few as there is substantial animosity, rivalry and hate between the tribes. It also comes from a King who apart from not being able to talk the talk only seems to be recognized by his own tribe. This will be their biggest challenge as they squabble amongst themselves the country can get on with the important stuff.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:32am
  - David Garrett
    
    Piniwi: Hone the Racist – from the Ngapuhi – calls Tuheitia “the king of Huntly”.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:39am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Hi David, that was David Rankin – who also makes statements as a member of Ngapuhi and descendent of Heke.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/king-of-huntly-jibe-has-backers/PFKFZW5UB4HJ6FXY4I7JUNQOYU/
      
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      February 6, 2024 10:57am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wRdNSKySIE
El Paso County Commissioners will not offer resources to migrants.
The El Paso County Commissioners held a surprise press conference Wednesday. During the press conference, they outlined that El Paso County will not be providing resources to help migrants. They also urged nonprofits to not help either. [Sales of MAGA merch are rising rapidly. The commissioners should give them transport vouchers to Martha’s Vineyard.]
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February 6, 2024 8:16am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  It might be worth offering them transport back to the other side of the border.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:55am
Ultima

Happy Racist Day.
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February 6, 2024 8:17am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiGA4lVaKfM
Michelle Obama ‘very resistant’ to running for president.
US Political Analyst Aidan Smith says Michelle Obama has “seemed very resistant” to calls for her to run for president.
Mr Smith said Democrat supporters have wanted to see the former First Lady run for office for the “past decade”.
“She’s usually in polling named one of America’s most admired people,” he told Sky News Australia.
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February 6, 2024 8:17am
- Colville
  
  Typically politicians swear they are not running…right up until they do run.
  
  My pick is 3 months out from the election Biden will withdraw.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:25am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Big Mike will not run. It will be Hillary.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:52am
  - imalwaysright
    
    My money is on Mike with support from Taylor Swift as his vice president!
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:22am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Swift as VP? Fuck imagine that, a VP with more clues than Biden!
      
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      February 6, 2024 1:06pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Hillary has too many negatives associated with her and is nearly as old as Trump. Newsom also seems lame given what a shit hole California has become.
    
    What about (a moron but lots of intersectionality points and name recognition) AOC? she turns 35 before election day.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:35am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Hillary has not forgiven Trump for creaming her in 2016.
      A very sore nasty woman, and dangerous. If she thinks for one minute that Dem cheating will give her a win, she will run. Get in the road and you get a suicide note, hand written.
      Of course Trump’s landslide will happen. Just look at the rally crowd numbers.
      
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      February 6, 2024 1:10pm
  - rouppe
    
    Not sure running on a ticket of having already lost once to Trump is a great platform.
    
    With a 3 month runway there aren’t a lot of positive options. AOC had been invisible. Clinton is 0 for 1. Michelle has a lot of positive opinion on her side. Husband a 2-time winner. Black and female (even though race and gender shouldn’t come into it).
    
    But, I’m a million miles away, so you may well be right
    
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    February 6, 2024 12:17pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Steve Otto(North Shore): “Big Mike will not run. It will be Hillary.”
    
    Most of the US want their standard of living back. Pretty sure they know these two have almost zero chance of providing that.
    
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    February 6, 2024 5:38pm
- jon
  
  Michelle Obama, NO THANKS, one Obama was enough!
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:39am
- Paulus
  
  Michelle Obama must recognise that she, like Hilary Clinton, will be soundly beaten.
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:07am
- Beach Haven expat
  
  I just don’t understand this. I’m no fan of Hillary but at least she’s got her own track record in politics.
  I’m sure Michelle Obama is a lovely person and intelligent but how does being the wife of a president in any way demonstrate an ability to hold the most powerful governing position on the planet?
  
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  February 6, 2024 5:09pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Barry is the puppeteer. He has not finished screwing the US yet.
    
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    February 7, 2024 7:42am
sirknz

Dear Climate Change Acolytes,

Please don’t go around lighting fires in the Canterbury region today.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350169111/extreme-fire-risk-canterbury

Signed

Normal Folks who aren’t mentally ill.
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February 6, 2024 8:22am
- BarryB
  
  Well who would have thought that it was a really good idea to plant a whole lot of forests just as the temperature was getting hotter and areas like Canterbury getting drier. Those burning trees will give off a lot of CO2 – no problem – lets plant more…. Simpletons.
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:05am
Jake Dee

Did any else catch (or is interested in) this one?

At least 6 Kurdish fighters are killed in a drone attack on a Syrian base housing US troops
https://apnews.com/article/syria-iraq-sdf-islamic-resistance-us-c621972db21d6b3db7ca1bccd50ce6ef

Notice how this gets framed. it’s a “Syrian base housing US troops”, not “an American Base in Syria”.
This is the sort of transparently bogus double talk we are subjected to from Washington via the MSM on a daily basis.

“The SDF initially accused “Syrian regime-backed mercenaries” of carrying out Sunday’s attack but in a second statement blamed “Iran-backed militias” after investigating the attack.

Trained, armed, equipped and paid by America and you are an “ally”.
Trained, armed, equipped and paid by Syria or Iran you are a “proxy” or “mercenary”.
Anyone care to even try to explain why this isn’t transparently bogus bullshit?
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February 6, 2024 8:33am
- JimBobJoe
  
  Merica bad. Got it.
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:41am
  - Che Guava
    
    Pithy, but doesn’t at all explain how the US has a complete double-standard as regards the designation of groups they fund and those they don’t.
    
    The cynical formula seems to be “if we fund an irregular and/or paramilitary group they are brave freedom fighters, but if we don’t fund them, they are terrorists.”
    
    Once you understand the scheme, the US and her allies squealing about “terrorists” begins to sound completely hollow and self-serving.
    
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    February 6, 2024 11:35am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Guava I ask you again. Which regime would you like to replace America?
      
      Can you please honestly and succinctly answer that one?
      
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      February 6, 2024 5:42pm
      - Che Guava
        
        I’m pointing out states of affairs in the world as it is. and one such state of affairs is America’s intense hypocrisy and double-standards. It’s not so much who is running the world, it’s how they are running it and for what ends, and the effects of that. I’d be happy for America to continue as the world’s hegemon if it were run by White Christian males, which is who used to predominate. On this basis, of the current crop of nations, Russia probably comes closest to my ideal.
        
        I’ve said many times what the problems with liberal democracy are, so I’d be less concerned with democracy than I would with having a decent coherent nation.
        
        “Go and live in Russia” you may say. Well, I’d rather change New Zealand and New Zealanders so it became more like Russia because New Zealand is my home, as opposed to moving to Russia which isn’t.
        
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        February 6, 2024 6:45pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Che. Have you ever been to Russia? I have plus I have a Russian daughter-in-law. Not a place I would want to live in …..
        
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        February 6, 2024 7:34pm
      - Che Guava
        
        “Che. Have you ever been to Russia? I have plus I have a Russian daughter-in-law. Not a place I would want to live in …..”
        
        Well good for you Ian, and good for your daughter-in-law. Obviously we don’t share the same vision of what does and doesn’t make a good society.
        
        Are you honestly saying that Ian Boag’s and his former Russian daughter-in-law’s personal opinions are any argument against a society other than a liberal democratic one?
        
        Why would you assume that your predispositions are shared by anyone else, let alone most of the world’s population who don’t live in liberal democracies?
        
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        February 6, 2024 8:10pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        Let me jump in on this one.
        Whilst I can see that the perfect is the enemy of the good, I can also see that claiming, “There is No Alternative” (TINA) or claiming that any possible alternative is automatically going to be worse, is the enemy of things getting any better.
        If you think that the world has to have a global hegemon and that hegemon must always be centered in Washington, then that’s for you to prove not for me to disprove.
        Projecting backwards from some hypothetical future scenario is not proof, and if you can project one scenario, then I can project another and who is to say which is more likely?
        For example, I think you have discounted the possibilities offered by a multipolar world order. several poles of influence, Washington, Brussels Moscow, Mumbai, Beijing and perhaps others, each bidding for power and influence and keeping the others in check.
        Also, I think you are discounting the
        
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        February 6, 2024 8:13pm
- Che Guava
  
  There is no absolute and objective standard against which a group can be designated a “terrorist” group by the United States and its allies.
  
  The mostly subjective criterion is whether, and to what extent, a given group assists or impinges upon the interests of the United States and its allies.
  
  Thus, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis are considered “terrorist” organisations because they impinge on the interests of, primarily, Israel, and are funded by Iran. Incidentally, even a state such as Iran is only considered a foe to the extent that it helps or hinders the US, in much the same way as Russia and China are designated foes for the same reasons.
  
  If, all other things being equal, these same non-state irregular groups using the same guerilla-type tactics were instead assisting the US in its goals (in which case the US would likely fund them), then they would not be designated “terrorists.”
  
  https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/05/politics/us-houthis-terrorist-list/index.html
  
  “… the official said, adding that the “decision has nothing to do with our view of the Houthis and their reprehensible conduct, including attacks against civilians and the kidnapping of American citizens.””
  
  “The move to rescind the foreign terrorist organization designation comes on the heels of an announcement by Biden that the US will end its support for Saudi-backed offensive operations in the war in Yemen.”
  
  “In a speech at the State Department on Thursday, Biden declared that “we are ending all American support for offensive operations in the war in Yemen, including relevant arm sales,” and said he will appoint an envoy to focus on the long-standing conflict. He said the conflict is “a war that has created humanitarian and strategic catastrophe,” but he also emphasized the US will “continue to help and support Saudi Arabia.””
  
  Contradicting the above is this:
  
  https://theconversation.com/us-has-taken-farc-off-its-terrorist-list-giving-insight-into-bidens-foreign-policy-174667
  
  “Groups and individuals are added to the State Department’s Foreign Terrorist Organizations and Executive Order 13224 lists regularly, but decisions to remove groups from these lists are less common.
  
  Simply put, most terrorist groups don’t want to put down their weapons, which is the only way they’ll ever get off the U.S. lists.”
  
  The “only way”, that is, unless the US sees it as being advantageous to remove a group for reasons other than their “put[ting] down their weapons.”
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:25am
imalwaysright

Increase in cash in the bank for the Tamihere run trust.

From $50,000,000 last year to $64,000,000 this year.

They must have run out of poor people to help.

https://twitter.com/CranmerWrites/status/1741167512417665234
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February 6, 2024 8:34am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Those financial statements are for the year ended 30th June 2023. So, how come they record a donation made on 17th July 2023?
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:25am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Donation to or from? To or from whom?
    
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    February 6, 2024 1:34pm
- Burtland
  
  $6.79M remuneration to 13.3 FTE senior management = $510k each
  
  no wonder theyre squealing
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:52am
- rouppe
  
  That $14 million should be subject to taxation since it hasn’t been used for charitable purposes
  
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  February 6, 2024 12:20pm
cas

A woman at a local shop yesterday said that Waitangi etc is being rammed at us, which is true. With Labour, the greens and the Maori party being so full of rhetoric rather than solutions I wonder if they have read a piece by local East Coast MP Dana Kirkpatrick in which she quotes some dreadful statistics. In the last five years, in Whakatane there has been an 18% increase in those on all benefits, Opotiki 28% and Kawerau 14%. there are supposed to be2925 people job ready!!
The school stats are equally confounding. Whakatane 64% of kids attending school more than 80% of the time, Opotiki 35 % and Kawerau 57%.

Would it help with the problems if we said things like – have your Maori justice system, social welfare system, education system and take say 20% of the Govt spend, in proportion to the amount of the population who are Maori, and sort out your own problems.
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February 6, 2024 8:44am
- Cassandra
  
  A recipe for disaster funded by the 80%? No thanks. Things would just get worse and there’d be hikoi demanding 25%. Then 50%.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:49am
  - Beach Haven expat
    
    Not giving 100 per cent would breach the treaty. It would also be literal genocide. //s
    
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    February 6, 2024 5:13pm
Bridgenag

The African experience in America — well worth watching. Applies here

https://youtu.be/hIiyIEyUxu8?si=g8cKhSddT7d7VinW

Also think Alan Duff’s book A Conversation With My Country a compulsory read for New Zealand children
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February 6, 2024 8:45am
artemisia

Chloe Swarbrick attends HRC mediation over controversial chant

Green Party MP Chloe Swarbrick attended a mediation convened by the Human Rights Commission on January 23 in Auckland with people who had complained to the commission over her use of the controversial phrase, “from the river to the sea”, ZB Plus understands from sources.

ZBPlus, paywalled.
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February 6, 2024 8:47am
- imalwaysright
  
  Art,
  
  Even those we disagree with are entitled to freedom of speech.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:41am
  - Keith White
    
    But should they have freedom after speech when they shouted “fire!” in a crowded theatre…? Not so straightforward.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:23am
    - Che Guava
      
      But she didn’t shout “fire!” in a crowded theatre, so it is pretty straightforward actually.
      
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      February 6, 2024 11:52am
    - imalwaysright
      
      [Mod – use correct names]
      Good question in the sense that if someone shouted ‘fire’ in a crowded theatre these days no one would be bothered.
      
      You would need to text ‘fire’ and a flame gif to everyone before they would pay any attention.
      
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      February 6, 2024 1:35pm
    - thirteenstars
      
      “But should they have freedom after speech when they shouted “fire!” in a crowded theatre…? Not so straightforward.”
      
      Yes it is if you understand what freedom of speech means.
      
      Your right to freedom of speech is a restriction on government action, specifically that no law shall be made that prevents you exercising speech.
      
      A movie theatre is a private facility and your right to freedom of speech does not apply, just as it does not in another’s home or other such private place.
      
      When you shout fire you are violating the property rights of the owner and it is a private matter in which the owner can sue you for the loss incurred. Now, if a person should be injured or killed in a stampede for the exits, your criminal wrongdoing is again nothing to do with speech. You could after all pull the fire alarm as a stunt with the same result, or phone in a false bomb threat.
      
      Same applies to libel or slander because in the first instance you can say what you like as a matter of free speech. But a private action might be taken because your statements were false, causing damage or loss. In effect it’s the same as the theatre owner’s loss not because you exercised free speech but because your actions directly caused damage or loss to another.
      
      If you fail to make such a distinction you end up with hate speech laws, protected classes of people and other such non-legitimate restrictions on speech.
      
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      February 6, 2024 2:37pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Incitement should not be allowed.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:31am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Chuck,
      Unfortunately that is part the price of freedom of speech.
      If we try to impose conditions then the freedom is lost.
      Freedom cannot be encumbered by conditions .
      It then becomes freedom of approved speech.
      Its not easy.
      
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      February 6, 2024 10:51am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        That is why I will not renew my membereship to the FSU.
        
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        February 6, 2024 12:12pm
    - Che Guava
      
      It’s incredible how you cite a completely hypothetical possibility of “incitement,” while Israel is actually in Gaza right now trying their best to wipe out and/or drive out the Palestinians, with the goal of an Israel from the river to the sea.
      
      Let’s address actuality before we start worrying about potentiality.
      
      Just say that you support Israel regardless of any other consideration, rather than trying and failing to make a rational and consistent argument for Israel.
      
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      February 6, 2024 11:57am
      - Paulus
        
        Che
        Why did Israel attack Gaza ?
        
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        February 6, 2024 1:43pm
      - Che Guava
        
        Paulus
        I assume they attacked Gaza because they wanted to and chose to, and they chose to so they could ethnically cleanse and annex Gaza, one step to cementing their desired permanent Jewish majority.
        
        I suppose we could also ask why Hamas attacked Israel, but that question opens up a whole can of nuance and historicity that you probably aren’t prepared to address.
        
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        February 6, 2024 2:09pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Israel simply wants to exist without being attacked by genocidal maniacs. They’re quite happy to negotiate win/win solutions but the attackers only want Israel completely destroyed. It appears to be a Muslim pride thing when you boil it all down. But do keep up with the fire hose of BS if it makes you feel better. I’m pretty sure most here are sick of it and no longer read your Jew-hatred trolling.
        
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        February 6, 2024 5:51pm
      - Che Guava
        
        “Israel simply wants to exist without being attacked by genocidal maniacs. They’re quite happy to negotiate win/win solutions but the attackers only want Israel completely destroyed.”
        
        Oh please, enough with the Zionist talking points and implausible fever dreams. If you’d have read my commentary over the last few months, you’d have seen me discredit all of this.
        
        “But do keep up with the fire hose of BS if it makes you feel better. I’m pretty sure most here are sick of it and no longer read your Jew-hatred trolling.”
        
        None of this is an argument, but if calling someone who holds a different opinion to yours and whom you struggle to refute a “troll,” then be my guest.
        
        You’re probably right though that plenty of people downvote me without actually having read the comment, such is their strictly rational approach, free as it is from the emotive reflexivity exclusively found on “the left.”
        
        Anyone is free to rebut any of my comments if they can, and full credit to DPF for giving KBers the opportunity to test their mettle and step outside the echo chamber for a time.
        
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        February 6, 2024 8:17pm
    - Che Guava
      
      It’s not incitement that concerns you, Chuck, it is someone thinking differently to you that really worries you, isn’t it?
      
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      February 6, 2024 11:58am
  - kowtow
    
    Freedom of speech , definitely .
    
    But she took the stage after Tywford was first jeered and then apparently ordered off the podium by two “organisers” , he then had a big police escort to get him out of there.
    
    She took the stage and immediately attacked the Auckland Museum’s freedom to light up in support of the victims of Hamas terror and then screached her genocidal rant ,
    NB not one word in defence of the western values of Twford’s right to address the mob or to be ‘safe” at a public rally in Auckland!
    
    “Free speech for me , but not for thee”
    
    The Greens are very dangerous extremists .
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:49am
    - Che Guava
      
      You are correct that free speech is a fundamentally Western value, which is why the Jews reject it and instead like to police criticism of them by people merely exercising their Western love of free speech.
      
      Clearly, many Jews tend to dislike anyone speaking negatively of them (or even just not supporting them), which makes sense when you contend, as I do, that the Jews are not Western (i.e. Christian or Christianity-derived) in their outlook, values or approach.
      
      Christianity developed mostly in the Greek-speaking and Roman world initially, hence it is an amalgam of the traditions of both Athens and Jerusalem. By contrast, because Judaism didn’t have the influence of the Athenian tradition that Christianity does, Judaism never developed an affinity for free speech, unlike the Christian or Western world.
      
      (We see this hatred of free speech in the ADL today, for instance, a Jewish activist group that polices speech on the internet, and determines “hate speech” policies on social media).
      
      On the contrary, as a thoroughgoing Middle Eastern people (their homeland being the Levant, as they like to remind us), just like the similarly atavistic Muslims, they are intolerant of the out-group and all too prone to solving their problems using violence.
      
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      February 6, 2024 2:22pm
- Burtland
  
  paywalled – the truth hidden for the few to see, for the rest, lies
  
  – just another dis/misinformation tool of the left
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:58am
- Che Guava
  
  “…a mediation convened by the Human Rights Commission on January 23 in Auckland with people who had complained to the commission…”
  
  I wonder who the “people” were who complained?
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:51am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    And indeed what was actually said to them. It would be good to think that the HRC informed all sides that their human rights DO include the right to say things that others don’t like, and DO NOT include the right to prevent others from saying things they don’t like.
    
    This is the aspect of the HRC’s job, and indeed that of the Race Relations Commissioner, that isn’t enough attended to. As well as defending human rights and opposing racism respectively, they should be doing more to set limits by calling out instances where human rights violations or racism are wrongly claimed.
    
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    February 6, 2024 2:45pm
Cassandra

Luxon confirms that National’s policy is that the ToW is “a relationship akin to a partnership”. He just pushed the separatism/cogovernance door wide open.
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February 6, 2024 8:49am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I do wish Luxon would stop his shit stirring nonsense.
  There never was a partnership.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:57am
  - JJ56
    
    Of course there was, how else do you negotiate/agree a Treaty? So at that level akin to a partnership and that applies to how we deal with issues around what it means today etc. Main requirement is a bit of respect.
    
    But did the Treaty create any partnerships in its content? Well not Articles 1&3 but possibly Article 2 around the Crown protecting the Tribes’ rights to their unqualified exercise of their chieftainship.
    
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    February 6, 2024 12:05pm
Yvette

Prominent Māori leaders and their supporters have called for kotahitanga – a united front – and declared the Treaty sacrosanct

1
Which Treaty
the original 1840 version of course – Maori or English
so then the 1970s–1980s expansion into principles is not that original version but a revivalist interpretation?

2
as adjusted, the 1970s–1980s expansion into principles
– so you are declaring the original 1840 Treaty is not sacrosanct

… and declared the Treaty sacrosanct
which version?

I wish Tami Iwi had filled his canvas, even a little bit – an empty canvas said nothing

QED, artful and impressive as the display was
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February 6, 2024 9:04am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The post 1975 Waitangi Tribunal rogue version by James Freeman is the version that pays the dollars.
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:08am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Q & A for some Treaty lies. Jake Tame will bend and twist this for sure!
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February 6, 2024 9:05am
- Chuck Bird
  
  He has. Does he not know why Maori on average has a shorter life span?
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:34am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Lifestyle: choices.
    Diabetes and heart disease are not caused by white privilege or anything that is beyond their control.
    Rawiri has made a case that Maori have superior/stronger DNA, so if it is not in the genes then it has to be in the lifestyle.
    
    Maori leaders and role models would do much more good for their people, if they really cared, if they pushed them to do something about their personal lifestyles.
    Soft drinks and energy drinks would be a start.
    
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    February 6, 2024 11:03am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      If a Maori person dies 5 or 10 years early due to smoking that brings the average life span down a little. However, if a toddler is killed by a mother’s boyfriend that brings the average down a lot more.
      
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      February 6, 2024 1:07pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        The toddler is SOCKs.
        
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        February 6, 2024 1:36pm
    - Beach Haven expat
      
      Rawiri’s superior DNA allowed him to recover so quickly from white man’s stomach stapling so he could scuttle off to Paris and scoff cakes.
      
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      February 6, 2024 5:23pm
  - Paulus
    
    Maori shorter lifespan is entirely Genetic from the Pacific origins.
    Hence physical size derivative.
    
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    February 6, 2024 1:46pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      How do you mean Paulus?
      
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      February 6, 2024 5:53pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      Physical size does negatively correlate with life span. that probably explains a lot of why women live longer than men (an interesting sexist life outcome that feminists are not at all interested in).
      Big men die early, a while back i was looking up some of my favourite WWF wrestlers from the 1980s and 90s, those guys didn’t do themselves any favours with drug use but there were a lot of heart attacks too. Andre the Giant died of heart failure at 46.
      On the other hand look at the people who make it to 100-110. All short and slim.
      
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      February 6, 2024 5:54pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Genetic legacy of Millenia of evolution in an R-type breeding environment where shooting out lots of kids to take advantage of openings created by frequent paleolithic massacres and natural disasters matters more than diligent child rearing with grandparent contributions (K-type breeding strategies). End result is early maturation and shorter life spans. The bad luck of genetics.
    
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    February 6, 2024 5:13pm
Paulus

And you wonder why our Education results have plummeted over many recent years.
Cannot see any change, even if we start now, as this kind of daily disruption can only continue, as being from the past teaching standards.
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February 6, 2024 9:07am
- Jake Dee
  
  While I do think there has been a decline in NZ educational standards, don’t forget the difference between absolute and comparative outcomes. Just because India, Africa or wherever are improving their schools doesn’t mean our education is getting worse. It’s basically the same point I was making to Riffer before about Māori health and economic outcomes.
  Me getting richer doesn’t make you poorer.
  
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  February 6, 2024 5:58pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Winston giving the crowd some stick.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/get-an-education-get-some-manners-peters-hits-back-at-waitangi-crowd-after-being-booed-through-speech/ar-BB1hM5tu
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February 6, 2024 9:11am
- David Garrett
  
  Steve O: Well bugger me…Peters talking absolute sense.
  
  Did you note that the loudest boos came when he said “Get some education…get some manners”. The booing began before the reference to manners.
  
  To me, that indicates that the ignorant shouters are quite happy for them and their many scrofulous children to remain on the dole, because they can’t be bothered getting an education which will be increasingly vital to succeed as society becomes more complex.
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:06am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Winston Peters is a different man now from 2017.
    Probable the most experienced in Parliament now.
    Winston is still Winston first though.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:12am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      And Luxon is still Luxon first.
      
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      February 6, 2024 10:35am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Pretty sure Peters never claimed to be the Messiah!😀
      
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      February 6, 2024 5:55pm
Maggie Pie

“Ngapuhi elite are useless negotiators for their people.
After two weeks the situation will be back to the way it always has been”

– Chris Finlayson (1ZB)
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February 6, 2024 9:22am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  That is true, but you could have stopped after the fourth word.
  
  Ngapuhi are loathed by the rest of the Maori tribes for a whole lot of very good reasons.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:39am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    The only tribe NOT to have reached settlement with the Crown.
    No wonder Northland is in the state it is 🙁
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:13am
    - David Garrett
      
      Maggie: It’s worse than that…after nigh on forty years of arguing among themselves, they still can’t even agree on who their negotiators should be.
      
      If Luxon had any balls, he would just say “Time’s up – no settlement for you”. Of course he never would say anything remotely like that.
      
      And the treaty gravy train rolls on, gathering more and more aggrieved passengers…
      
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      February 6, 2024 10:55am
      - rouppe
        
        He should make a reasonable settlement, and vest it in the Waitangi tribunal, and tell them to sort it out.
        
        Making it clear that any reduction in that settlement due to “expenses” or inflation is now the responsibility of the Waitangi tribunal.
        
        That would give them something constructive to do
        
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        February 6, 2024 12:26pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Rouppe,
        The Waitangi Tribunal needs to be disbanded, abolished.
        It was only set up to rip off the NET Taxpayer. Why else would they use the James Freeman rogue version of the Treaty?
        The job of the Tribunal was to advise the Govt of the day. Now the Tribunal tells the Govt what the Govt will do and how much!!
        Waitangi Tribunal is NZ’s Al Capone (scarface) You take from the rich and give to the poor homeless. Of wait, that is not how it works in NZ. Waitangi Tribunal takes and keeps it – with the other hand still out begging.
        
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        February 6, 2024 1:50pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I though Tuhoe say they did not sign?
      
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      February 6, 2024 1:39pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Steve O: You are correct…how the fuck you can get a settlement for alleged breaches of the treaty you did not sign entirely escapes me.
        
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        February 6, 2024 1:54pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Unless your name is ‘Tame Iti.” The Gravy Train is a nice train for Mr Iti!
        
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        February 6, 2024 3:24pm
  - kowtow
    
    Finlayson has a pretty low opinion for a lot of his fellow citizens .
    
    He , and the rest of National Party pro treaty crowd
    are a bigly part of the problem.
    
    Just why Luxon says it’s been a long standing Nat policy for no referendum on the treaty is very concerning .
    
    We are a democracy where the electorate , in theory rules supreme , or aren’t we a democracy .
    
    Are we really ruled by an Establishment Elite who decide what we can and can’t decide for ourselves .At the ballot box .
    
    Surely the highest values and principles we have are our democratic ones ……….
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:56am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Kowtow: “Luxon says it’s been a long standing Nat policy for no referendum on the treaty.”
      
      Oh really??? Is this what he said to the NZ people leading up to the election? Or is he pulling a scummy bait and switch?
      
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      February 6, 2024 6:00pm
BeaB

If Tainui can create a king surely TPM can manage a mere parliament. I’d love to see it. Endless entertainment. Levy their own taxes on their own people and decide how to spend the proceeds. They have John Tamihere to advise them.
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February 6, 2024 9:24am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Well John well knows how to clip the odd ticket.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:42am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  That fool Rawiri was even saying Maori should make their own trade agreements. It is hard to unpick how stupid he is: Maori businesses or tribes can enter agreements with who they like, but sovereign states to states is not an option and never will be.
  
  If he wants all this, and a separate parliament – I trust it will not be funded by the Crown 😉
  Up north there are pushes to have sovereign areas – and perhaps that is OK as long as no local or central government services are maintained (water/waste, rubbish, roading, policing, education, health etc.)
  If they want to be a seperate state or kingdom and people apart it has to be 100%.
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:09am
- CJames
  
  Robert Mahuta organised a Maori parliament to be based at the old army base of Hopuhopu. Going to be a Tainui University based there as well.
  What ever happened to all those plans? Or is it yet another grand failure not to be remembered?
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:10am
- Burtland
  
  they only know how to clip whiteys ticket
  – they will never agree to tax their own “charities”
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:13am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Boom!! So correct.
    
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    February 6, 2024 3:27pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  BeaB: “If Tainui can create a king surely TPM can manage a mere parliament. I’d love to see it. ”
  
  Hope you’re ready to be put on a barge “back” to the UK.
  
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  February 6, 2024 6:02pm
trout

David Seymour has sure put his head in the mouth of the taniwha. His assertion that Tino Rangitiratanga or self determination can be extended to apply to individuals and personal choice is a direct threat to tribalism. Tribal elites will fight to retain tribal structures which sustain their power. That is why they are openly questioning democratic concepts such as one person one vote. Seymour has confronted Maori with the reality that civilization will supplant tribalism in NZ as it has in most other parts of the world. The cry for ‘re-indiginentization is a plea to return to the stone age.
‘Def; A tribe is a social group comprising smaller groups, politically aligned, defined by tradition, of common descent, language, culture and ideology. It usually occupies a small area. It may or may not be part of a civilization. A civilization is an advanced stage of human and social development and organization.’
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February 6, 2024 9:41am
Ghost

The good news is Charles procedure saw more men going to get checked

Less than 18 months into his reign, King Charles III has been diagnosed with a form of cancer and has begun treatment, Buckingham Palace said Monday (Tuesday NZT).

Article

Edit – its not prostrate cancer
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February 6, 2024 9:53am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  More men should get checked. For some reason breast cancer makes us very aware but prostate cancer not so much.
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:15am
- krazykiwi
  
  Channeling DG here.. it is Prostate cancer. Although on learning of having this, one might prostrate themselves in distress.
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:37am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  I hope both he and Catherine take the opportunity to be open and frank about their respective health issues and so encourage other people not to be embarrassed and make sure to get themselves regularly tested. They don’t have to, of course, even Royalty is entitled to some privacy in medical matters, but if the monarchy these days isn’t about promoting apolitical but important public service messages then what is it?
  
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  February 6, 2024 2:53pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Catherine who ?
    
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    February 6, 2024 4:32pm
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      In this context, I would have thought it obvious that the reference is to the Princess of Wales, the only Catherine in the royal family, who has also undergone hospital treatment recently
      
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      February 6, 2024 6:50pm
Maggie Pie

And while I’m on matters Te Tiriti o Waitangi….
this from Dame Whina Cooper –

“Let us all remember the Treaty was signed so that
we could all live as one nation in New Zealand”

(Wise words indeed, but not listened to by radical activist Maoris.)
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February 6, 2024 9:57am
- riffer
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  One nation comprising two peoples.
  
  Not everybody assimilated into the Pakeha culture.
  
  By god, some of you folks never progressed beyond that two year old not-sharing stage.
  
  I’d challenge any of you to specifically mention how anything in te ao Maori ever disadvantaged you.
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:08am
  - Clyde
    
    The belief in tribalism – you know, cannabalism and all that stuff for one.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:13am
    - Ghost
      
      Now explain how cannabalism that ended long before you were born disadvantaged you.
      
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      February 6, 2024 12:35pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        The point would be that Te Ao Maori is cherry picked, and not the Maori world at all: The right of might, slavery, cannibalism, utu, the misunderstanding of the causes of disease/pathogens, etc.
        Those pining for the old ways do not understand, nor would they really want the old ways.
        This is why their ancestors to a greater or lesser degree had welcomed the world from the outside of their limited understanding.
        
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        February 6, 2024 5:16pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Morning riffraff 😀 It’s yet another fab day in paradice!
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:17am
  - Keith White
    
    Apart from stealing our earned paychecks, paying for their feral-breeding, their meth industry, their brawls and being stopped at tribal roadblocks and pulled over by police to let them have wrong-of-way on public roads for gang funerals… wait! There’s more, but got to go to work to pay taxes to subsidize the feral percentage.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:28am
  - NothingLeft
    
    I have to pay more tax for Maori to receive benefits and other preferential treatment that I am not allowed to access due to my ancestry.
    
    That is racist and repellant. This campaign to create a genetically based aristocracy of rentier-class maori in NZ is repulsive, anti-enlightenment and anti-democratic, and clearly damages NZ’s future. It will make our country poorer and our governance less efficient.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:45am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Riffer….
    
    One Nation, many peoples. We are not bicultural – which if you drive through any working class area you would know: Pacific Island cultures, Hindu culture, Sikh Culture, Chinese, Korean, Cambodian…. not to mention South African and the rainbow of European cultural traditions sitting on top of the NZs foundational British Culture (which is a composite of its 4 constituent cultures anyway)
    
    No one cares if Maori maintain their culture – language, marae, tangi etc. Its all cool. Its just we dont want it rammed down our throats as it has increasingly been over the last 15 years.
    
    I am not interested in karakia before standard run of the mill meetings at work or community events. i have no interest in participating in Maori ancestor worship and worship of traditional Atua (ghosts, demons, gods, ancestors etc etc)…
    
    And I am certainly not interested in Rangatira class snobs and bigots dictating what I can do via unelected representation in any governance body whether central or local government.
    
    I suspect a lot of people agree with me – and those people come from all walks of life and are of all races dwelling in NZ.
    
    One person, one vote – under one national Government and living under one set of laws. Any other way inevitably leads to chaos and discord – ultimately it leads to violence
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:58am
    - Che Guava
      
      “One Nation, many peoples. We are not bicultural – which if you drive through any working class area you would know: Pacific Island cultures, Hindu culture, Sikh Culture, Chinese, Korean, Cambodian….”
      
      One nation, many peoples is a contradictory notion. I would say that with any more than two, or perhaps three, different peoples, no coherent nation can come about or last any length of time.
      
      To the extent we are multicultural, we don’t have a nation, because a nation is based on a common ethnic or racial core. This needn’t entail complete homogeneity, but a nation diminishes as heterogeniety of peoples increases.
      
      Etymologically:
      
      nation (n.)
      
      c. 1300, nacioun, “a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language,” from Old French nacion “birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland” (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) “birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe,” literally “that which has been born,” from natus, past participle of nasci “be born” (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- “give birth, beget,” with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.”
      
      So a “nation” is not just a collection of arbitrary people, from arbitrary places of origin, assembled in the same location and with common citizenship.
      
      Post-nationalism and multiculturalism go hand in hand, with the latter being a means of bringing about the former.
      
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      February 6, 2024 1:59pm
      - julesnzuk
        
        Agreed, people need to get away from flippantly throwing around the word “multicultural” when they don’t understand, or haven’t bothered to think about, the full implications of what it means. Multiculturalism has been discredited in the UK for some time now, precisely because people have woken up to the fact that a nation state cannot function to a civilised standard if people expect to be able to behave in accordance with different cultural/legal/legislative frameworks. Multicultural influences (cuisine etc) are great, but I do not want this to be a multi-cultural country – and I’d go further and say we need to re-connect more closely with our foundational British culture. That is who we are and what we can reasonably expect immigrants to assimilate into.
        
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        February 6, 2024 2:10pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Over 160 ‘other’ cultures in New Zealand, but only the ‘special people’ get attention.
        Why is that? Just because we allow it and don’t want to offend anyone?
        
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        February 6, 2024 3:36pm
      - JimBobJoe
        
        Your blood and soil extremism is showing AGAIN Che. Couple that with your Anti semitism and that makes what you are quite obvious….
        
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        February 6, 2024 4:21pm
  - actista
    
    @riffer – “I’d challenge any of you to specifically mention how anything in te ao Maori ever disadvantaged you.”
    
    Maori crime.
    Taxes to support the welfare state (I’m sure Maori would claim that welfare is part of “te ao Maori” if there were ever a move to remove it).
    Hundreds of millions in Waitangi settlements – a whole lot more than the Spanish would have given Maori, had they arrived here instead of the British).
    
    Now, a challenge in return – this should be easy.
    I challenge you to mention the POSITIVE things that Western culture has brought to this country.
    
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    February 6, 2024 11:30am
    - Ghost
      
      How about all the non maori receiving benefits?
      
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      February 6, 2024 12:38pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        But which non-Maori receive benefits, access or opportunities based purely on their race though?
        
        Try not to be willful blind to what people might be actually meaning, as I presume you have heard of the access to scholarships, or even medical treatments based specifically on being Maori. I also doubt I would get a discount in court for being ‘disconnected from my whakapapa or tikanga’.
        And an answer to “who else’ might be ‘Pacifica’ in any case, as for some reason, (presume the leftist’s racism of low expectations), Pacifica sometimes get offered the same affirmative action-type opportunities {so-called ‘equity’ of SJWs}.
        
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        February 6, 2024 5:22pm
    - rouppe
      
      Riffer: The diminishing of science education.
      
      The extra costs of everything from cultural reports that say the taniwha has to be paid to not be angered/disturbed/awakened.
      
      Cultural reports for criminals to diminish the devastation they have wreaked on the victims. “Cracked it!”
      
      That’s three.
      
      Over to you riffer for actista’s challenge
      
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      February 6, 2024 12:38pm
      - Ghost
        
        Number 3 doesn’t only apply to maori. Without the cultural reports our justice system is a joke, and has been for a long time. Comedian comes home drunk and abuses his child, discharged to protect his career. Teenager rapes multiple girls, ~~Xbox holiday~~ home detention.
        
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        February 6, 2024 12:44pm
      - rouppe
        
        Those don’t come from cultural reports which are S27 of the sentencing act.
        
        Those examples come from pre sentence reports, which is S26.
        
        Home detention comes under S26A.
        
        Your examples also seen to stem from those reports, so I’m now not sure whether you’re for them or against them.
        
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        February 6, 2024 12:52pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Billions. not millions in settlements. riffer will not name any POSITIVE things, because, get this: Those POSITIVE things would have happened through natural evolution of Maori without Colonial people.//
      The wheel would happen after seeing a log roll down a hill; and shoes would happen because they got sore feet bro!
      
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      February 6, 2024 4:53pm
  - julesnzuk
    
    There’s no such thing as “pakeha” culture. There is New Zealand European culture – which is really just Western culture with some local quirks.
    
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    February 6, 2024 2:03pm
    - Inandout
      
      Jules, most Western culture until recently was confined to the individual through freedom of thought and living within the law. The more we are shackled the less we practice individual thought and the less originality shines through. Socialism tends to group non coloured people into white enclaves that in the majority of cases are taxed to provide for the non earners. Welfare is finite because the money eventually dries up and borrowing ceases.
      
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      February 6, 2024 3:59pm
  - Jinky
    
    Wasting 15 to 20 minutes every morning listening to karakia and waiata before the morning shift starts work,
    
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    February 6, 2024 5:04pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Spare us the sanctimonious crap riffer. We don’t want tribalism or racism.
    
    Define a “people” in respect to your “two peoples” concept. Go on.
    
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    February 6, 2024 6:08pm
I remember when

It is very hard to accept the idea that the Treaty intended to allow Maori to retain sovereignty.

English version:
Foreword:
“Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand and to the respective families and individuals thereof the full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates Forests Fisheries and other property ….. so long as it is their wish and desire to retain the same in their possession;”

“cede to Her Majesty the Queen of England absolutely and without reservation all the rights and powers of Sovereignty which the said Confederation or Individual Chiefs respectively exercise or possess, or may be supposed to exercise or to possess.”

Obviously they retained possession not sovereignty.
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February 6, 2024 9:58am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wrong. The original 1840 version in Maori had no mention of “Forestry and Fisheries.”
  See pages 13 and 14.
  
  https://issuu.com/esisite/docs/3481_jb_-_go-governance_-_a5_booklet_-_online
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:20am
Scooter

So married life hasn’t silenced Clarke Gayford, his latest Instagram post he ponders over the hardship of being Maori and how divisive the new govt is. Sheesh the honeymoon must have been a riot!

https://www.instagram.com/p/C29hRFuL6S7/?igsh=MThhZ2s5MWxhenNvMg==
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February 6, 2024 10:01am
- Clyde
  
  Unbelievable crap from a woke idiot.
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:15am
  - Keith White
    
    To be fair, waking up next to “that” would not be conducive to rational thought.
    
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    February 6, 2024 10:31am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Simp!
    
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    February 6, 2024 6:09pm
- kowtow
  
  ‘the real Waitangi. The one without camera’s,’
  
  And then he posts photos . What a dick .
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:24am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Jethro ain’t that bright really.
    
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    February 6, 2024 4:57pm
  - Scooter
    
    Look at moi, look at moi.
    
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    February 6, 2024 8:02pm
- David Garrett
  
  Scooter: Does Gayford also claim to be Maori? I suppose he does appear to have a slight touch of the tarbrush..(I refer of course solely to his skin pigment)
  
  How nice for little Neve Aroha…she’ll be able to claim all the benefits of being Maori too…
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:09am
  - Scooter
    
    He said he can’t know what it is like to be Maori at this time, so no doubt has no ancestry. I still don’t understand his point, are Maori anymore disadvantaged now. He’s using Maori like everyone else on the political spectrum to create division and hatred. It’s nothing to do with fairness or racial equality.
    
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    February 6, 2024 12:16pm
- John Loveridge
  
  Mr Ardern isn’t exactly the most neutral of observers, nor the most intelligent.
  
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  February 6, 2024 12:19pm
  - David Garrett
    
    John L: Fair do’s now….he’s a fisherman, so he can’t be all bad!
    
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    February 6, 2024 1:57pm
KiwiSapper

Has anybody else pondered why, if the “celebration” of W Day is to celebrate two countries entering into a Treaty, then the only and in your face celebration is the “wonderfulness of maori” and not a jot, whisper, comment etc celebrating the other treaty partner?
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February 6, 2024 10:15am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Only every year, KS
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:42am
- MCōs
  
  It’s not to celebrate two countries entering into a treaty
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:11pm
Maggie Pie

An ‘X’ bestie asks…

“I wonder what the average Maori makes of this?”

https://twitter.com/Pacific_Mouse/status/1741235661716488530
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February 6, 2024 10:21am
Jethrod

That collection of people from the north, commonly called Ngapuhi, need to be given a date in which to decide when their treaty claim will be presented, say mmm, the 31st December 2024. There can be only so many Harawira’s , Henare’s and the Heke’s to be persuaded to complete their claim. The delay is typical of the indecision , infighting and just plain bloody mindedness of that tribe.
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February 6, 2024 10:24am
- artemisia
  
  Or just let Ngapuhi drift on not making decisions. If they ever do, the government of the day will have other priorities taking up their valuable time. Could go on for years, maybe just in time for Ms Swarbrick’s government to sort.
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:05am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Agreed. Let them drift along, making it clear that it’s for Nga Puhi to sort themselves out, not the Crown or anyone else.
    
    They can sneer at the King of Huntly, but at some point the Nga Puhi rank & file are going wonder why they are not as well of as their Tainui chums.
    
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    February 6, 2024 11:45am
krazykiwi

King Charles has cancer and is withdrawing from all public engagements while undergoing treatment. I’m not a fan, but I do wish him a speedy recovery. Cancer is a bitch.
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February 6, 2024 10:31am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Couldn’t help but be reminded of the advice mum gave me and my sister….
  “Never get involved with anybody who smokes. They will not be welcome in the house”
  
  She was of course only ever thinking of our own health.
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:38am
herb1

We regularly talk of the sad state of the media and their non profitability.
I’m wondering if some like the Herald are deliberately making it difficult for subscribers to cancel .in my case I’m a Herald subscriber and have tried 4 times to cancel.
The first time I simply went to my online sign in and went to my subscriptions and cancel subscription, click.
They still continually took money out of my account. On the 3rd try which didn’t work I emailed them on the address they give and I told them I’d clicked unsubscribe 3 times yet they still charged me.
Their advice was to click on unsubscribe.
I’ve waited several months to see if anything would happen and tried again also sending an email saying if it didn’t work this time I’d take further action.
Surprise surprise it hasn’t worked as they’ve just tried once again to take money out of my account.
As I thought this would happen , I made sure on the day they would that I’d taken all my money out of the account. I quickly received an email saying I hadn’t paid . I’ve sent a strongly worded reply but not expecting any sane response.
Any advice ?
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February 6, 2024 10:37am
- lifesgood
  
  Just contact your bank and cancel the automatic payment.
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:14am
  - rouppe
    
    It will be a direct debit. Incredibly you can’t cancel the authority you initially authorised.
    
    Small claims tribunal. Claim the deductions to date, plus expenses. It’ll take time but you should get it all back.
    
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    February 6, 2024 12:44pm
    - KH
      
      It’s your bank account. The bank might try to say you can’t cancel a direct debit. They lie.
      Again, it’s your bank account. If the bank does not take your instruction, you can make them liable.
      You might have to shout a bit.
      
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      February 6, 2024 2:46pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Ooooh. Banks don’t like customers shouting for everyone to hear.
        They then respond pretty quick when you say you are going to continue to tell them how useless they are.
        Usually about 10 minutes with proof on paper.
        
        3 2
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        February 6, 2024 5:12pm
    - Ghost
      
      https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/how-to-cancel-a-direct-debit
      
      Don’t let your bank fob you off and tell you it can’t do anything until you advise the company. You’re entitled to cancel the direct debit directly with the bank at any time – as long it’s from a bank account. If you have a direct debit from your credit card you’ll have to ask the business to cancel it.
      
      Under the Code of Banking Practice the bank must follow your instructions. It will also advise you to contact the business. If the business doesn’t know you’ve cancelled, it’ll still send payment instructions to your bank. If an unauthorised payment is made, complain to your bank.
      
      But remember – if you cancel a direct debit with a business and you’re still using its services, it will still expect payment. Cancelling the direct debit doesn’t cancel your contract with the business – just the method of payment.
      
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      February 6, 2024 2:50pm
      - rouppe
        
        Most of mine have been credit card.
        
        Gym kept taking money for 4 months.
        
        Shouting didn’t work
        
        1 0
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        February 6, 2024 8:44pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Open a new bank account.
  
  Complain to Fair Go.
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:46am
- kowtow
  
  Post that to their facebook account ( if they have one, companies hate bad publicity) and write a letter to the editor .
  Complain to the press council .
  
  ( if you feel strongly enough about it)
  
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  February 6, 2024 12:23pm
- Inandout
  
  ‘Cancelling a direct debit
  Deposit accounts
  
  Make sure you don’t owe the merchant any money. Pay the amount owing or set up an alternative payment arrangement, or
  Contact your bank: They will process your cancellation request on your behalf.
  
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  February 6, 2024 12:51pm
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  I have had a number of these situations with various providers. My advice, if you can subscribe through a third party, such as Apple or Google, do so. Cancelling a subscription is then easy. (Payment using a credit card) If you have subscribed directly using a credit card the ultimate pleasure lies in ignoring their requests to update your credit card when you get a new one. (I believe you can get a new credit card on request (for a valid reason) but that then means that any regular payments being made via your card need updated info. If you are using Google or Apple for those payments this is simplified because you only to update the data on Google or Apple.
  
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  February 6, 2024 3:24pm
actista

If no-one else had come here, the Maori would still be like some uncontacted mountain tribe in New Guinea.

If only we non-Maori could be somehow magically teleported to an Earth-like planet with all mod-cons (buildings, power, plumbing etc) already in place so we didn’t have to build them all again.
I think that after six months without anyone to run their power, water, phone networks and give them welfare benefits, the Maori would be *begging* for us to return.
I have NEVER in my 62 years of existence heard a single Maori acknowledge the GOOD things that Western culture has brought to this country.

It’s odd. In 1981, leftists and Maori marched in the streets against the Springbok tour (which they saw as supporting apartheid). Now, the same groups seem to be *wanting* separatism.
I guess the left could never be accused of being consistent.

The one best thing that this government could do for the country is to axe the Maori seats. IIRC, they were never supposed to be permanent anyway. I see them as a bit like “training wheels” on a bike. Time to get rid of them and make Maori participate in the democratic process on the same basis as everyone else.
If you took a random sample of 1,000 Maori and asked them “have you personally benefited from the Maori seats in the last 12 months?”, 99.999 percent of them would say “no”.
Heck – 35 percent of the current cabinet are Maori!
That fact alone shows that the Maori seats are no longer needed (if indeed they ever were).
They do nothing except give clown MPs a stage on which to prance around like a member of a cultural group in Rotorua.
Time to axe them.
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February 6, 2024 11:21am
- kowtow
  
  Te Media pardy keep saying Luxon has “united” Maoaris against the govt , using some really hyperbolic language .
  
  And yet the leaders and many senior members of the two other coaltion parties are Maoris .
  
  And the Maori Party got f@ck all votes anyway .
  
  The only “voice” Maori have is , like the rest of us in a modern liberal democracy , the ballot box .
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:38am
Maggie Pie

‘SEIZE THE MEANS OF SEDUCTION’ 😛

Chloe and the Mexican-Glove-Puppet come together….

https://twitter.com/vixentempleblog/status/1753553309053640888
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February 6, 2024 11:35am
- rouppe
  
  All they have to do is set up their own clubs.
  
  Why does someone else have to sort out their problems
  
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  February 6, 2024 12:46pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Um, that is the way lefties work – blame others
    
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    February 6, 2024 5:16pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Shows that CS and RMM are on to the important things.
  
  Maybe RMM might like to try the real thing????
  
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  February 6, 2024 2:37pm
rockape

When labour does well the Maori party does badly and vis versa. In 2020 they got just 33,000 votes. In 2023 they got 87,000. When you consider the Maori population is around 800,000 that doesn’t say much for Maori party support. I wonder how many of that number are Maori separatists. I really don’t think the activists have much support from Maori. But the old saying”An empty vessel makes the most sound” is very true in this case.
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February 6, 2024 11:38am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Somewhere I saw a note that the National Party received more votes from Maoris than did the Maori Party.
  
  I’m not sure if it’s true, but if so it should be front & centre in any response by National to Maori Party carping.
  
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  February 6, 2024 11:49am
  - mandk
    
    Yes, but the ones who voted for National clearly weren’t proper Māori. //
    
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    February 6, 2024 12:33pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Bit like the Democrats leaving the ‘plantation.’
      The average Maori is now asking “where is my payout, when the Elite got theirs?”
      Yep, all the try hard 1/1024 and they get away with it!
      
      5 2
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      February 6, 2024 5:27pm
  - peterwn
    
    In SMH years ago – in NSW there were more Maori prison officers than Maori inmates. A previous article bemoaned the number of Maori inmates in NSW jails. Perhaps they were not 501’d out then.
    
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    February 6, 2024 1:04pm
- julesnzuk
  
  A number of their votes will be some idiotic, left wing Europeans, too.
  
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  February 6, 2024 2:23pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Yes, this was a statement made more than once on TDB by leftists who were homeless due to Labour failing, and the Greens’ woke agenda.
    
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    February 6, 2024 5:28pm
- MCōs
  
  All those numbers are meaningless of course
  The Māori Party have six seats in Parliament; none of them list MPs. The numbers wouldn’t have changed if they’d had one party vote and it would have taken maybe another 60k to get one list MP
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:12pm
The Housekeeper

Why was an oozing, foul smelling whale carcass buried next to a Christchurch public walkway? Wouldn’t it have been easier and cheaper to tow it out to sea?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350168697/foul-smelling-whale-carcass-buried-public-walkway-disgusting-locals
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February 6, 2024 12:15pm
- kowtow
  
  A rhetorical question , surely .
  
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  February 6, 2024 1:08pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  GOOD GOD!! If this was France, the locals would have exhumed the carcass
  and transported it to the steps of the council chambers.
  
  That leftard clown Rupert Bool sounds like a right tosser!
  Wonder how close he lives to the sacred burial site?
  
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  February 6, 2024 1:24pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    If this was France, the locals would have dug the whale up & would be busy sautéing the tit bits.
    
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    February 6, 2024 1:42pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The French farmers would have dug it up, chopped it up, put it through a wood chipper and sprayed the rotting putrid mess all over council buildings.
      
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      February 6, 2024 6:14pm
- Damocles11
  
  Local Iwi says “jump” and the Council says “how high?” Welcome to the decolonisation that nobody voted for or consented to. Luxon knows how embedded this stuff now is, and hopes to keep his head down and focus on his economic KPI’s.
  
  ——
  
  ‘Christchurch City Council’s acting head of parks, Rupert Bool, said the location for the burial was chosen because of its proximity to where the stranding occurred and it was guided by mana whenua.’
  
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  February 6, 2024 2:30pm
  - Jack5
    
    If the whale was killed to save it suffering, butchering the carcase for, at least, pet food, would have been a rational course.
    
    They still eat whale meat in Norway and Iceland, and (I understand, of course) it’s like beef rather than fish.
    
    New Zealanders have an unjustifiably bad conscious because of the country’s history of whaling. It was an industry of the time, providing oil for lighting and bones for women’s fashion. The world moved on.
    
    The time for justified commercial whale hunting is well past, but what’s wrong with using the carcase of a whale that just ran aground and died or had to be euthanised?
    
    It’s big “road” kill, but would feed a lot of pets.
    
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    February 6, 2024 5:39pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  At least they didn’t blow it up as they did in Oregon.
  
  There was whale meat and blubber for about 400 yards radius.
  
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  February 6, 2024 2:34pm
Chuck Bird

I will change the topic. Scroll down to, “Are we transitioning to Green Energy too quickly?” Barnaby Joyce is debating with a greenie. All but one of the jury were in favour of nuclear power generation.

That is a small sample but polls show most Aussies support nuclear power generation.

‘What people are talking about right now’: Behind the scenes of the brand new Sky News Australia series The Jury

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/what-people-are-talking-about-right-now-behind-the-scenes-of-the-brand-new-sky-news-australia-series-the-jury/news-story/c1b881ef9dd8c72cd90166ee4b926da2
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February 6, 2024 1:02pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  People talk about ‘green’ energy as though it’s ‘green’.
  They’re funny.
  
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  February 6, 2024 1:33pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION

I don’t wish to sound mean, but does the Horrid’s Senior-Political-Reporter
remind anyone else of an unwashed member of the Green Pardy?

https://nzherald.co.nz/author/simon-wilson/
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February 6, 2024 1:12pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  Are any members of the Greens washed?
  
  10 1
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  February 6, 2024 1:32pm
  - David Garrett
    
    I once had the misfortune to share a parliamentary lift with Mad Cath Delahunty…there was a strong smell of urine; I later learned she washed her hair in it…precisely for what purpose God only knows.
    
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    February 6, 2024 2:01pm
    - rockape
      
      I can verify that fact. I know a few MPs who wouldn’t share a lift with her.
      
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      February 6, 2024 3:33pm
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      I have frequently used the expression;
      “taking the piss”
      but that is beyond the call.
      
      8 0
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      February 6, 2024 4:05pm
      - rockape
        
        At least it was her own piss !
        
        5 0
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        February 6, 2024 4:32pm
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      Did she drink it like Ghandi???
      
      6 0
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      February 6, 2024 4:31pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Roman’s used communaly collected piss for cleaning clothes as can dissolve oils ‘Fullers’. So there is science in it. But fucking filthy and indicative of extreme nuttiness for a person to do it in this day and age
      
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      February 6, 2024 5:24pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Stops the Minister for Mars going bald?
      Good choice by her…
      
      6 1
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      February 6, 2024 5:30pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Just be thankful she didn’t use “conditioner”
      
      7 0
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      February 6, 2024 5:51pm
- John Loveridge
  
  He looks like he’s been urinated on a few times…
  
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  February 6, 2024 6:27pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Don’t forget, many were not even born when the Waitangi Tribunal got off the ground in 1975. They have been brainwashed!
Peters, “Get an education!” Woo, the crowd booed because they are not educated, just puppets!

“There was never meant to be two standards of citizenship – one for Maori and one for the rest.” JB.

Please click on the links. Not to read all maybe, but just to get an idea of our coalition Govt appeasing Maori. Maori are not the Govt, yet. This ongoing Coup has to be stopped.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/evaluating-the-speeches-of-seymour-luxon-and-peters-at-waitangi/
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February 6, 2024 1:28pm
bco90

The Institute for Science and International Security has raised the threat level of Iran to Extreme Danger.

https://isis-online.org/isis-reports/detail/the-iran-threat-geiger-counter-reaching-extreme-danger

Something seriously needs to be done about Iran. I’d prefer not going to war directly with Iran, but the options seem to be slowly running out as to what to do about them.
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February 6, 2024 1:29pm
Conservatarian

Obi Wan Kenobi best sums up Waitangi Day activists’ petulance and grift: “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.”
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February 6, 2024 1:31pm
sirknz

Went to the Auckland Zoo this morning with the family. We were surprised by the fact that none of our cycling loving elites rode their bikes there as the bike racks were all empty.
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February 6, 2024 1:33pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Bicycle maintenance. It takes about 11 months you know.
  At the Zoo, did you find out those dodging the media there? – in cages?
  
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  February 6, 2024 5:34pm
Chuck Bird

When I first came to NZ in 1966 ads for flats stated no Maori need apply. I was surprised as that would have not been allowed in Canada, unlike the US. That of course is now illegal.

However, far too many people will blame all Maori for what a small minority do. They may not be able to run ads like happened in the past but they can discriminate in other ways like for employment.

The racist scum like in the Maori Party and the Greens will make things worse for good Maori which is the majority.
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February 6, 2024 1:43pm
- David Garrett
  
  Chuck: Sadly I can confirm seeing to-let ads in Dad’s “Auckland [New Zealand] Herald” as late as about 1972 which said:
  
  “No dogs No Maoris”
  
  And as you say, that discrimination may well still continue, but no landlord with half a brain will admit to not wanting Maori tenants. Billy T James’s wife – who had a pakeha surname – recounted instances early in their marriage of flats/houses suddenly becoming unavailable when they learned she had a Maori husband.
  
  I have to say that my ex wife – who is a very dark skinned Tongan – has had no problem renting houses since we split, which is encouraging..
  
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  February 6, 2024 2:16pm
  - julesnzuk
    
    What is a “pakeha” surname? Do you mean an English surname?
    
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    February 6, 2024 2:26pm
- cmm
  
  So what? Why does it matter what happened 50+ years ago?
  
  50 years ago some landlord didn’t rent to a Maori, therefore what?
  
  So young white people, who were not even alive at the time, should be pushed aside and Maori given preference in med school?
  
  Or maybe because of this Maori are wagging school or committing crime at 3x the rate of non-Maori.
  
  This living in the past stuff is bullshit. There is no healthy outcome from it. If you dig back far enough then everyone has, at some stage, been oppressed.
  
  The English were terrible to the Scots at some stage of history. Should I pull my Scottish victim card for something that happening in 1573 or thereabouts?
  
  Should I pull my English South African victim card because my family were evicted from their farm in the 1950s due to the Afrikaners enacting the Group Areas Act?
  
  Should I pull my “hero” card because both my grandfathers put their lives on the line (or more correctly had their lives put on the line) to protect black Africans in the fight against slavery?
  
  Look to the future. The past can be twisted in any way you choose.
  
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  February 6, 2024 6:46pm
- Gravelroad
  
  An office I worked in many years ago had a notice board on the wall behind my desk which included several cuttings from old, turn of the 20th century newspapers.
  One was an advertisement seeking laundry workers.
  At the end it stated:
  “Chinese and Nelsonians need not apply”.
  Discrimination seldom applies to just one race or birth place of people.
  
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  February 6, 2024 6:50pm
Maggie Pie

Buckingham Palace has just released a new photo of King Charles following his cancer scare. A number of commenters are saying…. “he actually looks a lot better after losing a little weight”.

https://twitter.com/people/status/1754659180575682613

I think so as well tbh.
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February 6, 2024 1:56pm
- David Garrett
  
  Maggie: If his weight loss is directly related to whatever cancer he has – they haven’t specified the nature of it – then we may be in for a rather short reign.
  
  Still, there will probably never be a repeat of “the year of the three kings”, 1936.
  
  I will let Dr Google tell you how that came about.
  
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  February 6, 2024 2:03pm
  - Ghost
    
    You starting to come to my suggestion that William wont have to wait long to be king.
    
    I’m not sure it’s as the palace are saying, especially when harry is rushing home to see his dad.
    
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    February 6, 2024 2:07pm
  - julesnzuk
    
    I think most of us are well read enough to be aware of it, David!
    
    6 1
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    February 6, 2024 2:27pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Hey David. I think Winston is on his way to Tonga as Foreign Minister.
    
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    February 6, 2024 3:46pm
  - MCōs
    
    I had cancer last year and lost 10-12kg
    
    Pray give me a box
    To hide inside.
    Pray give me a spade
    To dig my own grave.
    
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    February 6, 2024 8:43pm
- Ghost
  
  “he actually looks a lot better after losing a little weight”.
  
  He always did look better without Camilla in the photos
  
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  February 6, 2024 2:04pm
  - David Garrett
    
    Ghost: Yes…Camilla and Wallis Simpson have more than a little in common aside from a liking for Royal willy!!
    
    “A face like a slapped arse” as the Oirish say…
    
    5 13
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    February 6, 2024 2:18pm
    - julesnzuk
      
      Your insults should be reserved for Markle. Queen Camilla has more class, dignity and resilience (which is actually all we should care about) in her little finger than that creature does, as did the Duchess of Windsor.
      
      18 1
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      February 6, 2024 2:31pm
    - Ghost
      
      She certainly doesn’t have the, to steal a Māori term, mana that Diana had.
      
      3 11
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      February 6, 2024 2:55pm
      - BeaB
        
        What a shallow comment. Judging by looks is always a tricky path to follow
        
        4 4
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        February 6, 2024 3:05pm
      - Ghost
        
        I’m guessing by your comment you have no idea what mana means. Because it is not a persons looks.
        
        Suggest you go and learn what it is, and I will say again, she does not have the Mana that Diana had, and I would say even in death still has
        
        https://maoridictionary.co.nz/word/3424
        
        2 14
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        February 6, 2024 3:11pm
      - Grumpy Silver Top
        
        Oh, but so much more genuine class – and I’m not being ironic, either.
        
        4 0
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        February 6, 2024 3:29pm
      - rockape
        
        I have met Diana on a number of occasions through my work. Sh3 h@d no mana. She was as dumb as a sack of hammers and was only ever interested in her own image.
        
        16 3
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        February 6, 2024 3:30pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Rockape,
        
        Well said. She was a self promoter who became addicted to attention.
        She would tip off the media about her movements herself to ensure coverage.
        
        Class free and shame free.
        
        9 0
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        February 6, 2024 6:12pm
      - Ghost
        
        Good for you, however others who have meet and know her would disagree with you.
        
        2 4
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        February 6, 2024 6:14pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  So enlarged prostate removal for Charlie boy?
  No weight loss would be known, and less for me with small prostate.
  
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  February 6, 2024 5:38pm
Inandout

rockape, are you confusing Diana with Jacinda?
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February 6, 2024 4:10pm
- rockape
  
  No, not unless she was married to the Duke of Cornwall !
  
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  February 6, 2024 4:31pm
Hugh Jarse

I don’t know why Newstalk ZB don’t call Tim Roxboroughs show “the Tim Roxborough I Hate National and Luxon Show” and be done with it. He is as predictable and boring as batshit.
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February 6, 2024 4:28pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  There was a tweet went viral last year from someone that commented…..”He was so far up Jacinda’s arse his nicname at ZB was Colon”.
  
  LOL!!
  
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  February 6, 2024 6:43pm
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    Love it ! It’s about right.
    
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    February 6, 2024 7:55pm
Southern Raider

Looks like the lead singer of Home Brew (Tom Scott) according to stuff hasn’t learnt any manners over the years.

Always a Jacinda fan boy who is infamous for writing a song about raping John Key’s daughter, he’s taken the stage at Laneway Festival this afternoon chanting “fuck Chris Luxon, fuck David Seymour”
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February 6, 2024 5:51pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Another dubious public figure that received personal responses from Jacinda.
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/11/jacinda-ardern-messages-kiwi-rapper-tom-scott-over-armed-police.html
  He might get some approval from the crowd for knocking the new government, but Jacinda is such a toxic brand that he would probably want to keep that linkage from a crowd. Jacinda excites hostility in a diverse range of people, and the loudest and strongest expressed insults are not from rich white pricks from my experience.
  
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  February 6, 2024 7:31pm
Damocles11

Outrageous coverage on OneEwes tonight. A Maori marcher calling the government “scum”, the OneEwes reporter says the people turned up at Waitangi “for their tamariki”, and then Simon Dallow says that people had turned up to “defend the Treaty”. A total propaganda blitz. The entire coverage was Maori reporters, interviewing Maori, and giving extreme Maori perspectives. One little European looking kid explained that Maori “had no word for sovereignty”.
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February 6, 2024 6:13pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  They did not have a word for a great great many things.
  
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  February 6, 2024 7:32pm
- Burtland
  
  the best was yet to come on Seven Sharp …
  
  a whole bunch of treaty misinformation, one highlight being
  
  “the maori text affirms maori sovereignty”
  – Te Rauhiringa Brown, Weather Reporter
  
  from 2:20
  https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/seven-sharp/live
  
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  February 6, 2024 10:53pm
Maggie Pie

WAITANGI UP DATE

“What do you think of all the children joining the hikoi?”
– Maiki Sherman TV1 Ewes to Maori protester.

“They are part of our foocha!”
– Hikoi protester in response.

No mention of Baby Ru then Maiki?
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February 6, 2024 6:15pm
- cmm
  
  I didn’t have my hearing aid plugged in, but I’m fairly sure he said.
  
  “They are part of the foodchain.”
  
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  February 6, 2024 6:26pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Are you suggesting Maori knew the value of Adrenochrome prior to colonisation?
    
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    February 6, 2024 6:36pm
    - cmm
      
      The science is settled babe!
      
      7 0
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      February 6, 2024 7:02pm
cmm

I see the Herald are having a go at Luxon for reusing some of his 2023 speech.

So what?

Nothing else has changed, so why update his speech?

He may as well save a back up for the next 5 years because nothing is going to change either.
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February 6, 2024 6:48pm
- Jethrod
  
  Just shows that they were listening for once and I hope they learned something!
  
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  February 6, 2024 7:04pm
- MCōs
  
  I somehow doubt that Mr Luxon knew his speechwriter(s) has rehashed an old speech from from last year. After all he’s probably spoken to hundreds of gatherings in the interim
  Nevertheless
  If he wasn’t annoyed at this embarrassment he should have been
  
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  February 6, 2024 7:59pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    NAH. Same shit, different day. 😀
    
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    February 6, 2024 8:34pm
- greybeard
  
  That lefty prick on NewstalkZB standing-in for HDPA was making a meal of this today, Tim Beveridge or Tim Roxborogh ?
  I texted him to say that all of the maori protesters and activists would also have said exactly the same things as in previous years and that he should check this and report it as a matter of balance.
  
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  February 6, 2024 9:11pm
BananaLlama

Can’t believe the coalition government was so naive and walked straight into that trap when the left have been telegraphing it since the election. Winston managed to salvage something from it so at least there is that, doesn’t look good for the others if they turn up and catch such a drubbing without hitting back.
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February 6, 2024 8:10pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350170175/police-accused-aggression-after-arrests-christchurch-protest

This is completely insupportable !

60 people cause a problem and only 4 are arrested !

What the hell are the police thinking, they should have nabbed the lot. Pussies.
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February 6, 2024 9:06pm

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