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February 1, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 01 February 2024

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Mobile Michael

Will Damon Exley get a second sentence of Preventative Detention? Sentencing this morning for this nasty piece of work.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rimutaka-prison-escapee-guilty-of-rape-assault-with-a-weapon-and-abduction-name-suppression-lapses-for/ED2XMQUDN5CR5PWYAPT7CTXLOU/
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February 1, 2024 8:06am
BarryB

A video well worth watching because its both seriously interesting and seriously concerning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpMQSVp7NTg

Its explains how Germany changed from a highly cultural and leading community that was leading the developments in the world in say 1900, to the evil outfit it was by about 1935.
The leading academics in the Universities and society leaders slowly but surely lead Germany into a place where killing Jews, Communists and anyone with a mental or physical disability was not just accepted but positively supported.

Niall Ferguson goes onto explain how the Universities and politicians of today are doing exactly the same.
The use of DEI – Diversity, Equity and Inclusion – in reality are doing exactly the opposite. Diversity means anyone but white, equity means equity of outcome and inclusion means exclusion of anyone voicing opposition.

And a further explanation is why the worlds left is all out anti-Israel. Its probably all about decolonisation. The Jews were colonisers when they arrived in what is now Israel. Its no accident that the Maori party co-leader was wearing earings with something like ‘decolonise’ on them.
Like Germany a hundred years ago, we seem to heading in the same direction.
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February 1, 2024 8:07am
- Grunter
  
  Thanks for the link.
  
  Also, it is important to realise that this is only happening in ‘The West’. The majority of the world (everyone else) is watching and laughing their heads off.
  
  If being ‘part of The West’ means embracing this weird and dangerous woke/leftard way of life, then I need to find somewhere else to live. Right now, as a “white cis middle-aged male,” I am seen as the enemy by more and more people that I share these shores with. And like the Jews in Germany 100 years ago, I’m confused as to what I (as an individual living in 2024) have done wrong exactly.
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:06am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    IMHO there will be an massive uprising against the Woke and everything they stand for. The silent citizens will be silent no longer and when that happens the Woke will get a very nasty surprise. They will the ones who are silenced. Remember the old saying every dog has its day.
    
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    February 1, 2024 9:37am
    - Matt Long
      
      I would hope so , interesting X exchange based on this article that suggests we need to do away with democracy to combat climate change.
      https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/07/climate-change-democracy/
      Jordan Peterson responds.
      https://x.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1752325795559657744?s=20
      
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      February 1, 2024 10:03am
      - Matt Long
        
        Peterson also suggests that persistent greening of the planet means the Climate Hysteria scam has run its course.
        https://x.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1752325156221915305?s=20
        https://x.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1752170655976423593?s=20
        
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        February 1, 2024 10:07am
    - wsk12345
      
      I’m not sure what you base this hope on. I believe that sadly woke people will continue to out-wokify each other until the last and most people who are not woke will watch in silence while doing precisely nothing – just as they did with the vax mandates. By the time they wake up and do something it will be too late.
      
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      February 1, 2024 11:03am
  - Che Guava
    
    The West in general is basically in a kind of Weimar Republic 2.0 state at the moment, particularly from the perspective of the cultural subversion and debasement and the massive economic issues, both already manifested and on the horizon.
    
    This is why anyone who comes along who alerts the perhaps imperceptive public to the unspoken reality, and looks like they may actually change things, is labelled “the next Hitler” or anyone who supports that person or their prescriptions is a “Nazi” or “far-right.”
    
    And this makes sense on some level, rather than being just hyperbolic rhetoric: when you’re in a dire and desperate Weimar Germany 2.0, changing things equates to being Hitler 2.0, because the post-WW2 world order is negatively defined as “not-Hitler.”
    
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    February 1, 2024 9:56am
- Che Guava
  
  Oh no, this idea that “the left are the real Nazis” again?
  
  How about the left are “the real Stalinists” or “the real Maoists”? At least that would be coherent, given that these were far-leftists not far-rightists.
  
  If the left are bad, “they’re the real Nazis”; if the right is bad “they’re the real Nazis.”
  
  Let’s get meta-political for a moment.
  
  Where did this reflexive “If we don’t like X, it’s basically the Nazis” formula come from? Who made “the Nazis” the pole star of “evil” when there are numerous other (and worse) instances of totalitarian regimes, and brutality on a mass scale, in the 20th century alone? Why not the Chinese? Why not the Soviets? Why not the Mongols, if we go back even further, who are probably the most egregiously destructive and conquering regime in history?
  
  What is it about the Nazis and Nazism in particular that they have come to define our morality and are the measure against which acts, ideas or policies are judged, when it is accepted that some regimes were even worse by objective measures?
  
  If it’s not quantitative, is it something more qualitative?
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:20am
  - Scott
    
    Replying to Che, most people would say that Nazis are evil because of the quantity of their crimes. They killed 6 million Jews.
    
    Others would point to the quality aspect. The use of scientific principles of management and industry to kill that many people on an industrial scale. The harnessing of the power of industry to build death factories. Also the use of psychological deception techniques such as people who would reassure them by reminding them to fold up their clothes neatly so they could get them again after they had had their “shower”. This was prior to going into the gas chamber.
    
    From the Nazis we get the use of the word genocide to designate the deliberate killing of an entire race of people.
    The Nazis also stand out in that they were very educated, but their education did not extend to good morals.
    
    They would probably be the premier example for the argument for the existence of evil.
    
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    February 1, 2024 10:20am
    - Che Guava
      
      So they were anti-semitic, very methodical and were good at science. OK. That’s a thesis to work with.
      
      Being methodical, technically advanced and scientific are, generally speaking, seen as virtues in a modern society. So this that just leaves “they were anti-semitic” as the reason why they are considered the archetype of evil.
      
      In other words, despite other regimes being more prolific in their killing (i.e. the “quantity their crimes” as you phrase it doesn’t put them at the top), it is the fact that they didn’t like Jews (while obviously loving White people, the two greatest moral failings of our age) that qualifies them as supposedly evil par excellence. The Soviets killed millions of people more than the Nazis, but the Soviets were more likely to be Jewish themselves than they were to be killing Jews, so you can wear a hammer and sickle in public, no probs.
      
      So it must follow by inference, then, that Jews are the ones perdominantly determining and policing our moral framework, and you can only determine an entire civilisation’s morality if you have effective control of it.
      
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      February 1, 2024 3:45pm
  - mawm
    
    Your argument fails on basic premise that the Nazi Party were right politically. The Stalinists, Maoists, Nazis and today’s socialists are all different colours of the same thing – totalitarianism with scant regard for the individual and their freedoms.
    
    Why has Nazism come to define our morality? I don’t know; ask the political left as they throw out the word for anybody or thing they dislike, and then claim that Nazism is a right-wing doctrine.
    
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    February 1, 2024 10:28am
  - Gussy Fink-Nottle
    
    Che,
    We might charitably argue that the NAZIS are the ‘go to’ despots because they’re more proximate to our consciousness.
    You make a very good point though (IMO underserving of the downticks). In our society today, we seem happy enough to tolerate self-confessed Communists, and not dwell on the terrible consequences of their particular ideology.
    
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    February 1, 2024 10:36am
    - Che Guava
      
      “We might charitably argue that the NAZIS are the ‘go to’ despots because they’re more proximate to our consciousness.”
      
      But why are they so proximate to our consciousness to begin with, when their contemporaries (who were worse) are not? We never hear the end of “the Nazis” and “the Holocaust” because it is politically advantageous that we never hear the end of either. The effect is that White people are made to constantly feel bad, cannot have homogenous societies, and must not resist the program, while conversely, Jews (mainly, but also other “oppressed minorities”) have an open-ended excuse and a free pass.
      
      None of this would be the case in 2024 if Stalin and Mao were rightly at the top of the “despot heap” where they belong on most measures.
      
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      February 1, 2024 4:01pm
  - cmm
    
    Oh, FFS not the insane idea that the Nazis were “Right Wing”!
    
    NSDAP: Nationalist Socialist German Workers’ Party.
    
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    February 1, 2024 10:42am
    - Che Guava
      
      As I have pointed out numerous times, “socialism” is a broad concept: if it’s National Socialism, that is right wing; if it’s international socialism, this is Marxism, or left wing.
      
      Being “right wing” was, in practical effect, made illegal at Nuremberg. Nationalism, racialism, non-egalitarianism, natural hierarchies etc. are all what “right wing” actually means, until the definition was altered after WW2. “They” are core (and you are wrong) when they call so-called bigoted neon-Nazi nationalists “far-right.”
      
      Who were the “right wing when the phrase was coined in the time of the French Revolution? They were the monarchist, authoritarian Catholics; the left wing were the liberal revolutionaries who were egalitarian (i.e. “Liberté, égalité, fraternité”).
      
      Hitler, King Loius XV and Joseph de Maistre were right wing, not free market liberals like Margaret Thatcher, von Mises and Milton Friedman.
      
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      February 1, 2024 11:03am
      - imalwaysright
        
        “What is it about the Nazis and Nazism in particular that they have come to define our morality and are the measure against which acts, ideas or policies are judged…”
        
        It’s because when we hear the word nazi we think of jews.
        Psychological focii that are inseparable .
        
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        February 1, 2024 11:30am
      - cmm
        
        “right wing” is just a slur. It really has no meaning.
        
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        February 1, 2024 11:41am
      - MCōs
        
        Volumes have been written about the various differences between left wing, right wing, the right wing of the left wing, the left wing of the right wing, communism, fascism, conservatism and all the rest
        I read a biography of Oppenheimer.
        In the years before WWII although he had strong communist sympathies he was never a card carrying party member because it would have meant signing up to other stuff he didn’t believe
        We have too many people who are inflexible
        
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        February 1, 2024 12:38pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @cmm @ 11:41AM
        
        Then this must also be the case—
        
        “left wing” is just a slur. It really has no meaning.
        
        Correct?
        
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        February 1, 2024 1:42pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Che, you socialism idea is often bandied about and is nonsense. Socialism is a left wing ideology only. Hitler was undoubtedly a socialist. I suggest you read Memoirs of a Confidante and Hitler Speaks.
        
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        February 1, 2024 6:22pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Ah yes, they called themselves “National Socialists”, so they must have been socialists. By the same logic, John Howard and Tony Abbott must have been “Liberals” – the conservative policies they implemented are neither here nor there.
      
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      February 1, 2024 1:15pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    There’s a couple of reasons:
    Firstly, the Nazis were racist so they’re an easier target as “evil” as for an example, most of the deaths that happened in China and USSR wouldn’t have happened if the people just did what they were told (taken almost verbatim from a Chris Trotter Stuff article from a few years ago). China and the USSR therefore can be said to have had the right idea, done wrong (not by me but there are definitely people that say this).
    
    Secondly, China and USSR actively stole people’s property, people won’t stand for that here so they aren’t really a rational threat. The Nazis instead let people keep their assets but asserted a huge amount of control over businesses etc, effectively having control over the means of production, if not ownership. This is actually much closer to todays Democratic Socialism on the Left than Communism.
    
    So, the Nazis were more objectively “evil” and their form of Socialism was far closer to the current Left wing ideology prevalent in the West.
    The Left try to obscure it by pointing to Nationalism and racism (wrongly) as attributes of the Right. Also, it’s standard Leftist transference – much easier than trying the same with Communism.
    The Right point to Nazism because ideologically, it’s the closest to what the Left currently is trying to push on us.
    
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    February 1, 2024 10:46am
    - Lee C
      
      “The Nazis instead let people keep their assets but asserted a huge amount of control over businesses etc, effectively having control over the means of production, if not ownership. This is actually much closer to todays Democratic Socialism on the Left than Communism.”
      … unless you were Jewish, Gay, A Jehovah’s Witness or spoke out against the regime.
      
      The ‘modern left’ have only indulged in a global experimental vaccine (stright out of the Nazi playbook).
      
      But most of them would be shocked if they were accused of mass-slaughter or eugenics, despite the rising evidence of vaccine-related fatalities.
      
      Nor would they acknowledge that the gleeful endorsement of ‘Lock Downs’, crushing dissent, offering up children for unnecesary medical interventions Human rights abuses, persecuting dissenting voices sequestering bank accounts, claiming to be the ‘sole source of Truth’, or hounding ‘undesirables’ out of their jobs would qualify them as Nazi.
      
      But I say, “If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, chances are, it’s f**n duck.”
      
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      February 1, 2024 11:58am
- cmm
  
  I call bullshit on the idea that the Germans were all rainbows and unicorns before the Evil Nazis corrupted them.
  
  The 1930s just fanned to flames coals that burned hot in the German culture.
  
  One just needs to look at their colonial policies in Africa to see what they thought of non-Europeans. Look especially at the way they dealt with the Herero and Nama people in particular, The 1904-8 genocide was a good curtail raiser for the 1930s Holocaust.
  
  Hundreds of thousands of people left South West Africa and moved into Southern Angola during, and around, this period. In 1915 the British kicked Jerry out and the Owambo refugees flooded back.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Nama_genocide
  
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  February 1, 2024 10:39am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Most historians would agree with you. The short-lived German empire was a multifaceted beast, in which high levels of literacy and the world’s first? welfare state coexisted with “social Darwinism” and shocking atrocities in German colonies.
    
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    February 1, 2024 1:23pm
- PurplePen
  
  Thanks .. watching it and it’s fascinating. Sent it to Hosking and Plunket in the hope they might make something of it.
  
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  February 1, 2024 10:47am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    test
    
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    February 1, 2024 1:53pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  And the courts, where lawyers go after university, and where they turn into judges.
  
  To that point I wonder if some of the lawyers here would like to weigh in on this point raised by a commentator over at Trotter’s blog on his Intransigent Minorities post:
  
  It is strange Chris puts official in inverted commas. This is to delegitimize the fact this is based on legal jurisprudence and tested against this. As such, if the interpretation is considered wrong, all New Zealanders have the right and the ability to mount a legal challenge. That Seymore and his well financed ilk don’t do this is evident that the Courts have not erred in interpretation. As stated above, the interpretation is as to the body of the Treaty and deriving principles as working guidelines.
  
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  February 1, 2024 12:00pm
Chuck Bird

Before the election, David Seymour said he was going to push for getting rid of the whole Climate Change Commission. That appears to have not been a priority during the coalition negotiations.

We now have the possibility of James Shaw replacing Rod Carr as the Climate Change Chair.

I hope that Seymour will insist the next Chair will have some science qualifications. Carr has a PhD but not in science. Shaw’s qualifications are very unclear.

The next Chair should not be an alarmist or someone who believes that human emissions contribute to global warming but there is no climate emergency like Dr Judith Curry.

Judith Curry: “Relax, there is no climate emergency!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4YUnZIKneY
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February 1, 2024 8:07am
- Frank the tank
  
  C’mon you just know it will be a ClimateCult shrill.
  
  Perhaps the current PM’s chief science advisor – surely Luxon won’t keep her in that role………..
  
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  February 1, 2024 8:10am
- Maggie Pie
  
  You’re not querying the validity of Jame’s CV are you Chuck?
  
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  February 1, 2024 8:13am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Yes, until he explains his degree on The Platform.
    
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    February 1, 2024 8:49am
- pdm
  
  Chuck – it was probably either Climate or Treaty Principles and Treaty Principles won through.
  
  Luxon of course is pretty much on the same page as Shaw as a Climate alarmist so Seymour was probably never ever going to win that one.
  
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  February 1, 2024 8:13am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    “Seymour was probably never ever going to win that one.”
    
    Depends if he wants to play hardball. Luxon is not treating him fairly on the treaty principles. How would Luxon like him to go on the cross benches so Luxon would have to negotiate everything?
    
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    February 1, 2024 8:47am
    - Ghost
      
      How about instead of believing rumours waiting for facts to come out on if he is getting the job or not. Also I hate to disappoint you but Seymour is not being treated unfairly. All 3 parties, including Seymour agreed to only support his bill to the select committee. It’s just some here can’t accept that and act all butt hurt over the deal david signed.
      
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      February 1, 2024 8:54am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Luxon agreed to only support it to the first reading but Luxon did not have say he did not agree with it but was supporting if because of the agreement.
        
        How would he like if he Seymour say he will vote for a National bill but thinks it is rubbish?
        
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        February 1, 2024 9:07am
      - Ghost
        
        Oh for goodness sake, don’t ever go into politics, you will be eaten alive. Luxon and Peter’s have always said they don’t agree with it. It was one of the sticking points in negotiations so Seymour knows how both feel about it. It’s their right to say that. Do you hear Seymour whinging? No he’s working to put together a bill that he convince people to support.
        
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        February 1, 2024 9:19am
      - wsk12345
        
        It’s also bad faith to agree to support it to the first stage then follow up later with guaranteeing no support after that, despite nothing having changed. If he didnt agree with it, he should have stood on principle during the negotiations and saved us the millions it will cost to first reading /select committee.
        
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        February 1, 2024 11:14am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Chris Luxon and all other MPs should listen to submissions to the bill with an open mind. As a citizen, that’s what I expect.
        
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        February 1, 2024 7:21pm
      - Ghost
        
        I actually wonder if people here just listen to the echo chamber here and the people who keep pushing their rubbish around and don’t actually listen to what is being said
        
        Go listen to Todd McClay where he says, and I’ll quote because either people are not listening to what is said or they are intentionally pushing fear in the echo chamber of kiwiblog to get votes from the echo chamber “the agreement through the coalition agreement was we would support it to committee stage, and then give it a fair hearing, and we need to see what comes back from the committee then, and our caucus and our leader will have the opportunity to talk about that, so we are not prejudging any outcome, and the reason that is important Jamie is that you’ve got to allow the public to have their say through the committee and value the views of the public and respect them and you need that process to go through. Where it goes after that we are going to have to see what it looks like when it comes back. But we are supportive of David in the first stages and the conversation itself is a very very important one for New Zealanders”
        
        https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/the-country/audio/todd-mcclay-minister-of-agriculture-and-trade-opens-up-about-the-state-of-new-zealands-trade-relationship-with-india/
        
        Winston has said it is up to act and the people to convince them this is needed. Seymour has said Luxon hasn’t ruled it out and is open. Stop listening to the likes of chuck and Otto and listen to what the politicians are saying to you.
        
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        February 1, 2024 7:37pm
    - pdm
      
      `How would Luxon like him to go on the cross benches so Luxon would have to negotiate everything?”
      
      It is not in New Zealand’s interest to have ACT on the cross benches. I as an ACT Voter want as many as possible of them in Cabinet getting rid of as much old Labour crap legislation as possible.
      
      That would not happen if they were on the cross benches.
      
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      February 1, 2024 9:14am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Is Luxons view on Seymour’s bill his personal view, a party view, or the view of a substantial number of New Zealanders ?
        
        It isn’t clear.
        
        If it isn’t the view of New Zealanders then is Luxon saying this is his ‘Captains call’, and if so then what is his rationale?
        
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        February 1, 2024 9:29am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Would Luxon call his bluff?
        
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        February 1, 2024 9:42am
- All_on_Red
  
  Well at least have someone who is familiar with what IPCC AR6 WG1 says.
  Like Sean Rush says here;
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/01/guest_post_catastrophic_gullibility.html#comment-3495811
  Have to say I was shocked to read this is post by our Host the other day
  “The NZTU has long supported the Emissions Trading Scheme and even the inclusion of agriculture into it.”
  I’m rethinking my financial support because of this.
  They need to update themselves on the Science, especially regarding Methane
  
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  February 1, 2024 8:13am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Give it to James Shaw so it is easy to dismiss anything he says as partisan political hackery, which it probably will be. That’s the second best option after abolishing the whole thing.
  
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  February 1, 2024 8:17am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    He’s just an ineffective show pony.. not capable of doing much but wearing a suit.
    
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    February 1, 2024 8:36am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Is that intended to be ironical?
      Getting the climate change legislation through on a bipartisan basis was a pretty impressive achievement. Not many Ministers can do that.
      
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      February 1, 2024 8:52am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Who was PM at the time, Wayne?
        
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        February 1, 2024 8:59am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Good morning Wayne
        You should read the comments by Sean Rush I linked to above.
        He is, after all, an Expert Reviewer for the IPCC and contributed to AR6
        Please let us know what you think
        
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        February 1, 2024 9:15am
      - RoboRob
        
        Do you seriously think getting agreement on climate change legislation was difficult?
        
        The government of the day was Labour & Green, with labour probably more into the environment then the Greens. Hardly likely to oppose CC legislation.
        
        The opposition was Luxon led National. Luxon has made it clear he 100% believes in climate change. Considering the academics, media and general society are all into climate change what are the chances that an opposition might take an unpopular stance on climate change, even if they wanted to?
        
        Me thinks you give Shaw too much credit.
        
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        February 1, 2024 9:19am
      - kowtow
        
        Only it’s not climate change legislation.
        
        It’s let’s fall in line with our trading partners legislation.
        
        The UN head honcho , Mr Global Boiling and his EU , WEF mates etc need to visit Anchorage Alaska, where it’s reported they’ve just had record snowfall.
        
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        February 1, 2024 9:21am
    - pdm
      
      `……………but wearing a suit.’
      
      Maggy you forgot
      
      and smiling for the cameras.
      
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      February 1, 2024 9:17am
    - Couchpotatoe
      
      Seymour is much more than that.
      
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      February 1, 2024 9:26am
      - pdm
        
        Shaw.
        
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        February 1, 2024 9:46am
- G152
  
  Shaw has a big mouth. Qualification enough for the greens
  
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  February 1, 2024 8:18am
- Yvette
  
  After Faafoi and others went straight from Parliament into lobbying jobs, taking with them their experience and intimate knowledge of at least one main party, is there not a rule or edict that now prevents that?
  Can Shaw go from lobbying for various Green policies into a position which is basically one of the biggest lobbying entities there are?
  
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  February 1, 2024 8:33am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I guess the new Climate Change Chair involves a lot of travel.
  BMW Jimmy loves travel.
  
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  February 1, 2024 8:35am
- RoboRob
  
  I imagine Luxon wouldn’t accept the closure of the Climate Change Commission. We will never know if it was discussed or not as part of the coalition negotiations, but Luxon is well on the climate change bus.
  
  I might add one can believe in climate change and still believe the climate change commission is a waste of money and time. Just like the Christchurch call.
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:14am
  - pdm
    
    ` one can believe in climate change and still believe the climate change commission is a waste of money and time. Just like the Christchurch call.’
    
    Unfortunately Luxon is a Climate zealot so getting rid of the Climate Commission will not happen under his watch.
    
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    February 1, 2024 9:20am
    - Damocles11
      
      I don’t think CEO Luxon is really a climate zealot, it’s just that he realises that a commitment to combating climate change is one of ‘the obligations through which successful businesses receive their ‘social licence’ to operate’. And if New Zealand Inc is to do business with other companies (countries) then Luxon and his executive team must do what the other corporate CEO’s and their teams are doing.
      
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      February 1, 2024 10:40am
      - RoboRob
        
        Agreed. Which is also my point to Wayne Mapp earlier who was applauding Shaws skills in negotiating a cross party climate agreement. Not hard when on one side you have Labour and Greens and on the other Luxon.
        
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        February 1, 2024 11:05am
- Grunter
  
  They NEED someone that is very good at maths, science, and English and is very open and honest…..
  
  What we will GET is the opposite.
  
  The scam will continue until these idiots run out of other people’s money….. which isn’t too far off.
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:17am
- cmm
  
  I would be quite surprised if Shaw took the Climate Change position. I think he’d want to move away from NZ politics.
  
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  February 1, 2024 10:11am
  - RoboRob
    
    I expect he would be very happy to remain at the trough.
    
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    February 1, 2024 11:07am
  - wsk12345
    
    It might be the only offer he gets above minimum wage!
    
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    February 1, 2024 11:17am
- hmmokrightitis
  
  Shaws qualifications are unclear to everyone. Including Shaw and the institute he attended.
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:30am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Apropos of the Wellington water leaks, it’s striking how many have emerged in a relatively short time. There have always been some, of course, and publicity brings attention. Even so, to this casual observer there really is an order of magnitude of difference.

Having said that, it’s unlike to be Klaus or his acolytes.

The parallel increase in public sector leaks, in the other hand …
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February 1, 2024 8:13am
- virtualmark
  
  I think leaks began to get materially worse after the 2016 Kaikoura earthquake and the subsequent quakes linked to that one. I suspect that a lot of aged fragile in-ground infrastructure was more badly damaged in those quakes than we expect.
  
  Added to which Wellington Water has then upped the pressure in the system a bit, as a response to the losses … basically squeezing the water through harder so that the pressure at the consumer end-point is still acceptable. But that in turn puts more pressure (literally) on the distribution network, which creates more leaks, which means they have to up the pressure, which creates more leaks … etc etc.
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:19am
  - tavita
    
    As a holiday job when I was at university, I worked for the local council works department. We would spend the day digging up the road and fixing a water leak. At the end of the day, if everyone wanted to go home, we turned the mains back on gently. If some of us wanted overtime, we turned the main back on real fast and we would get one or more new leaks to fix.
    
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    February 1, 2024 12:25pm
- hullkiwi
  
  NMTB,
  
  Reading the attached thread on LinkedIN, you can’t help but think that Wellingtonians deserve the mess they are in
  
  https://www.linkedin.com/posts/misswhanau_today-the-councillors-and-i-were-briefed-ugcPost-7158293278742695936-SeHZ?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_android
  
  They don’t seem to get that Wellington is in the mess it is in because successive councils h ve avoided dealing with the city’s decaying infrastructure & only Wellingtonians are responsible for fixing the mess.
  
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  February 1, 2024 5:22pm
hullkiwi

Conversation with a Northland farmer & Climate Change (NIWA style).

The w either warnings from NIWA were a joke, nothing happened as they forecast.
Growing conditions were so good, high Temps, high moisture and humidity.

The result, he has:
Cut & bailed two crops of hay and is looking at cutting a third (unusual, but not unheard of);
Corn for silage cut;
Corn for personal needs also harvested head of schedule.

His concern, the levels of bureaucratic control coming from govt agencies, politicians and the vested interests all with no understanding of farming, all with agendas of control of food production, and all making the production of food expensive, while Gate prices to farmers are forced down.
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February 1, 2024 8:16am
- Couchpotatoe
  
  Do not use NIWA for weather warnings. Metservice is your go to.
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:29am
- Grunter
  
  Farmers have a very tough gig at the moment.
  
  From a ‘previous life’ I know a bit about the farm-gate price drop on sheep meats. Over the past 10 years, we have enjoyed a ‘pulse’ of high prices out of China. The Chinese effectively ‘out-bid’ all other countries for most cuts (excluding Lamb Racks).
  
  The China economy is now tanking big time. Difficult to say how long this phase will last, but it is looking terrible on most fronts. Central planning always fails of course.
  
  The farm gate price of lamb is now below the cost of production for a stack of farms and is likely to remain that way for some time.
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:30am
  - hullkiwi
    
    But the price of lamb at the butcher’s or supermarket does not reflect the gate price!
    
    Someone is making money, if it is not the farmers.
    
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    February 1, 2024 12:39pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Farmers destocked in the Hawkes Bay ahead of the long dry hot summer in prospect, per NIWA forecast. It’s been warm, they got that right at least, but with plenty of rain there’s green grass everywhere & not much to eat it.
  
  Perhaps someone should sue NIWA for the failure of their predictions. Somehow, they need to suffer the consequences for their failure.
  
  And before you can say – that’s just the weather forecasting business – if that’s as good as they can do then perhaps it’s better that they go out of business. Next time, let’s consult the entrails of a chicken.
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:54am
  - JohnRidd
    
    The prediction of a long hot dry summer caused the price of feed to rise. Farmers usually take out a forward contract for any bought in feed so the incorrect forecast raised the costs.
    
    I predicted the summer would be wetter than average because the effects of the Tongan volcanic eruption on 15 January 2022 are expected to last for a few more years.
    
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    February 1, 2024 11:27am
    - hullkiwi
      
      I agree. The Tongan eruption plus LA Nina (2021-3) has had a lot to do with the moisture in the ground & the how green it is. Northland is vivid green, not summer burnt brown this year!
      
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      February 1, 2024 12:43pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    NMTB, as someone descended from Sthn HB (Dannevirke) sheep farmers & having experienced all manners of weather in December/January, the last thing you do is rely on someone resident in Auckland telling you what the weather will do for the next 3 months. Because invariably they are usually wrong.
    
    Given peoples’ livelihoods are at stake when they rely on the likes of NIWA, perhaps as you say NIW, should be put out of business, and their employees Sent back from where they came.
    
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    February 1, 2024 12:57pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  I wrote about my own experiences on that front in 2022 with, Bureaucracy: this time it’s personal:
  
  I need hardly say that me voting for a National/ACT government in 2023 will change none of this. In fact it will likely increase, either with more groups demanding such things or more detail, or both.
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:57am
Maggie Pie

OMG! It’s Hones bro’.
What would his mum have thort about this?

https://tinyurl.com/h4bzf5fd
26 1
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February 1, 2024 8:25am
- Tarquin North
  
  Didn’t he have a cousin who tried and failed badly to cancel a fishing competition up north? Looks like the apple didn’t fall far from the tree.
  
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  February 1, 2024 8:33am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  His Mum was done for assault at Carrington Psychiatric Hospital if I remember right.
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:49am
  - Jinky
    
    And two of her kids. Patient died after being assaulted
    
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    February 2, 2024 7:05am
krazykiwi

Interesting chart. It depicts the change in ideological leaning of men vs women in S.Korea, US, Germany and UK.
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February 1, 2024 8:28am
- Matt Long
  
  The current trajectory is yeilding woman more power and position and disempowering and neutering men except criminals. I’d expect that ideological gap to keep widening until FAFO kicks in.
  
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  February 1, 2024 12:54pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    It is also fueling the population replacement (aka birthrate) crisis.
    
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    February 1, 2024 4:28pm
artemisia

Wellington City Council by-election voting papers are out now that (fortunately for the city) Tamatha Paul has gone into backbench obscurity.

Candidate summary shows the usual suspects. One candidate runs an actual business in the city. A chance for voters to send a message.

But what message?
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February 1, 2024 8:31am
- virtualmark
  
  Central Wellington has a *lot* of students, who tend to vote Green. But the timing of this by-election being in the University holidays might mean that student vote isn’t as strong as it usually is. Hopefully Karl Tiefenbacher has a chance.
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:22am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Hopefully Karl Tiefenbacher has a chance.
    
    Well, if he’s serious about getting elected, he might be well advised not to pick and choose (again) the candidate meetings he deems to be worthy of him fronting up to.
    
    See https://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=158012.
    
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    February 1, 2024 7:13pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Art – is the candidate running a genuine business or is it more like the business run by wannabe greens co-leader self-described entrepreneur Chloe? Her Mr Eden Road business premise only seemed to be open for about 4-5 hours on 2-3 occasions but she is still happy to tout herself as a business owner.
  
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  February 1, 2024 6:05pm
  - artemisia
    
    Kaffee Eis – flash icecream. Been around about 20 years.
    
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    February 1, 2024 6:49pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

If Wellington City Council is looking for ratepayers’ money saving ideas, it could cut the number of parking meter wardens. They roam the street in gangs of two or three, or stand about chatting while staffing cameras pointing at the bus lanes.

I’d suggest that the cost of this service exceeds any benefit to the public.

Any anyway, wasn’t the point of smart meters to remove people from parking control?
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February 1, 2024 8:32am
- Drone
  
  No NMTB that was smart electricity meters (which were actually dumb given what they do in real time for the consumer), smart water meters will be the same, a promise with no delivery to the punter who wants to monitor his /her water usage in real time on the device of their choosing. Don’t hold out hope for an integrated future in Wellington village.
  
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  February 1, 2024 10:14am
- rouppe
  
  You must have missed the info yesterday that they are replacing the sensors with pay by plate so that the machines can display Te Reo.
  
  So it’s back to wardens checking every car
  
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  February 1, 2024 10:57am
Jack5

Radio NZ, the ghost of the Labour Party. Broadcast taniwha of the Left.

That’s more than the equivalent of a fairy-tale giant. Taniwha are real, right? Roads snake around them.

Today, dipped into Red Radio’s Moaning Report.

Kia ora, morena, kia ora, morena, kia ora, kia ora.

One of NZ’s two State weather forecasters hedged the outlook. Might … might … might … NZ’s a remote island country so …. might… might.

NZ is near-broke, but has two weather forecasting services, plus private forecasters. Not since D-Day has there been such fixation on coming weather.

Pro-Labour jabber. Hipkins … tobacco industry … Hipkins … Coalition conflict … more Hipkins. Didn’t realise he had a high-pitched voice. Almost pre-pubescent. Why doesn’t Red Radio edit Hipkins’s voice to a lower pitch. Give it a hint of gravitas. Make it Mr Chips rather than Chippy.

What to do about State radio? Who would buy it? Perhaps auction the frequencies.
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February 1, 2024 8:48am
- Yvette
  
  Jack5 – Why doesn’t Red Radio edit Hipkins’s voice to a lower pitch. Give it a hint of gravitas. Make it Mr Chips rather than Chippy.
  
  Please do not seriously advocate that – they may try it.
  We have enough misinformation without adding mispresentation
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:05am
- pdm
  
  Hipkins and gravitas are not words that go naturally together.
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:23am
- Grunter
  
  Commercial value of RNZ = $0 (actually it’s negative something!!)
  
  So just close it down. Currently, we (taxpayers) are borrowing money to fund it.
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:35am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Yes, if the RNZ staff are so brilliant and their broadcasts second to none I’m sure the banks would be lining up to finance a staff buyout.
    
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    February 1, 2024 12:52pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCE2bneIpPo
From The Werff Report.

Ashley Biden’s Entire Diary Released, J6 Pipe Bomber Is Government Official Being Protected.
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February 1, 2024 8:52am
sungsamning

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/trump-ballot-illinois-state-board-of-elections/
Trump Stays on Illinois Ballot.
At a hearing Tuesday morning, the Illinois State Board of Elections agreed with a hearing officer’s recommendation that it’s up to the courts, and not the board, to decide whether Trump is barred from running for president under the 14th Amendment.
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February 1, 2024 8:53am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Trump can not be barred until it is proven that he engaged in the insurrection.
  It’s just the left attacking him with their usual lies.
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:36am
  - Arthur Fleck
    
    There was no insurrection.
    
    12 5
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    February 1, 2024 10:18am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I know, so do the Dems. But the nasty Dems will do anything to stop Trump winning – even assignation.
      
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      February 1, 2024 12:53pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        assassination*** Jesus these typos LOL!
        
        3 3
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        February 1, 2024 2:04pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Correct,
      It was a combined Democrat/FBI/Media operation designed to look like Trump incited an attempted coup d’etat.
      
      3 1
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      February 1, 2024 12:57pm
- virtualmark
  
  This was basically the Illinois State Board of Elections (gratefully) letting this issue go by without having to make a determination. They know this issue is going to SCOTUS (oral arguments one week today) and so they don’t need to take any flak, from either side, by just side-stepping this one.
  
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  February 1, 2024 2:43pm
Cassandra

Anyone watching and listening to National maiden speeches, as reported in Politik and available on TV on demand, might wonder what party they were from. Pity it wasn’t made clear before the election. Apparently National will conduct its caucus meetings in Maori before too long. One new pakeha MP prays in Maori and has enrolled his pakeha son in an immersion school. Which is not at all bad but is it appropriate for the National Party? Is that thin end of the wedge what National voters want? How do you turn back the tide of separatism when a large part of your caucus is in favour of it? Seymour’s arguments for the Principles bill will fall on deaf, predetermined ears.
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February 1, 2024 8:57am
- Grunter
  
  And people are surprised by this….? It is all very consistent and predictable IMO
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:40am
  - Cassandra
    
    We’ve now got proportional representation, so National’s “broad church” is no longer appropriate or necessary. If you don’t stand for something then you stand for nothing.
    
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    February 1, 2024 12:47pm
- Damocles11
  
  Maori elites are a major shareholder in New Zealand Inc. CEO Luxon wants his executive team to be able to engage with Maori executives on a ‘one on one’ basis, with well established bona fides to ensure that meetings are conducted at a level conducive to the orderly running of the company. Diversity in the executive ranks is one of the key attributes of any major corporate operating in todays business environment. But no matter their background and credentials, CEO Luxon will still take a firm hand and ensure his executives stay ‘on message’ and are remaining focussed on meeting their KPI’s.
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:55am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Worse than 2008 then?
  
  know some here noted that National used to have a policy to do away with the Maori electoral seats. That policy never had a chance of proceeding because there was way too much resistance in the caucus to actually do it. In the end the policy was quietly dropped.
  …
  The policy of abolishing the Maori seats was never a core policy. There were other things that were way more important. So those who supported it, or in fact had come up with it, never even tried to push the policy within caucus to actually implement it.
  
  Long March Through The Institutions and all that.
  
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  February 1, 2024 10:00am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Blue Labour. Anyone who voted for them and wanted real change, has not been paying attention for the last 50 years.
  
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  February 1, 2024 10:16am
- BeaB
  
  Surely being able to make our own choices is exactly what National stands for. You might not like how I live or where my children go to school, but it’s my right to make my own decisions. Of course you might prefer Labour who will decide for you.
  
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  February 1, 2024 10:17am
  - Grunter
    
    “Surely being able to make our own choices is exactly what National stands for.” – sarcasm surely?
    
    Of course, they aren’t as bad as Labour, but The Nats have never enacted that philosophy. The Labour Govt of the mid-80s (Prebble, Douglas, etc) was more aligned to freedom of choice than this current bunch in National.
    
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    February 1, 2024 11:24am
Cassandra

“Anyone watching or listening to this week’s 12 maiden speeches from new National MPs might wonder what has happened to their party.” Politik.
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February 1, 2024 9:04am
imalwaysright

Watched a promo for a Waitangi day tv program.

Young maori woman sadly laments that, had the French settled NZ, “we” would be eating croissants instead of pies and baked beans!
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February 1, 2024 9:21am
- pdm
  
  May not have been able to eat at all if the French brought the Guillotine with them.
  
  They weren’t shy about using it.
  
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  February 1, 2024 9:48am
  - Swifty
    
    Not to mention nuclear testing.
    
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    February 1, 2024 10:52am
  - rouppe
    
    Have a look at how the French treated the Vietnamese.
    
    Don’t think they ever shared croissants with them.
    
    Maori think there would have been a French Treaty. No chance
    
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    February 1, 2024 11:01am
    - MCōs
      
      You never been to Vietnam?
      
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      February 1, 2024 11:44am
      - rouppe
        
        Yes I have.
        
        And yes, I’m sure you’re referring to whether you can get a croissant now.
        
        But I’ve also been to the prison museums, and seen how the French treated political activists at the time. I doubt there were croissants in those facilities. Not much room in the little cages topped with barbed wire left out in the sun. Or the cells with rows of leg shackles so you couldn’t move.
        
        Did you go to those?
        
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        February 1, 2024 12:15pm
- graham
  
  I’m guessing she hasn’t visited a supermarket recently, where one can purchase croissants singly, in 4-packs, 6-packs, 9-packs …
  
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  February 1, 2024 10:10am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Let’s compare places around the world which were colonised by France or England:
  
  Vietnam vs Malaysia
  Congo vs Kenya
  Haiti vs Jamaica
  
  There is a pattern there and it isn’t good for former French colonies.
  
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  February 1, 2024 10:22am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Congo was Belgium.
    
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    February 1, 2024 11:08am
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      Some of it was French . But substitute another former French colony in Africa if you want. They are generally worse than the British ones.
      
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      February 1, 2024 11:47am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Kenya was good either.
        
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        February 1, 2024 1:27pm
  - rockape
    
    Add New Caledonia and NZ to that list. When I spent a few months in NC I used to go for a 10km run at dawn when it was cool. Used to witness the police driving around in minivans, then jumping out and beating up the rough sleepers to clear them before the tourists woke up.
    
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    February 1, 2024 11:44am
  - MCōs
    
    Reading this article it doesn’t look good for any of the European colonial powers in Africa, just degrees of evil
    https://www.port.ac.uk/news-events-and-blogs/blogs/british-king-acknowledges-colonial-atrocities-in-kenya-heres-what-could-happen-next#:~:text=British%20colonial%20rule%20in%20Kenya,suppression%20of%20anti%2Dcolonial%20movements.
    
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    February 1, 2024 12:49pm
  - Dave
    
    Haiti hasn’t been a French colony for more than 200 years. On the other hand, because France insisted on being paid the value of the slaves they lost as a condition of recognising Haitian independence, Haiti had a huge debt which wasn’t finally paid off till 1947. Haiti was also occupied by the US for 20 years last century.
    
    Whether these facts support or fail to support your pattern, I don’t know.
    
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    February 1, 2024 7:05pm
- Jack5
  
  French colonies not all bad ….
  
  https://youtu.be/ab_tYof60I4?si=0wi2W1E7-lCes9yG
  
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  February 1, 2024 10:31am
- kowtow
  
  She needs to do a little history .
  
  The Marion du Fresne encounter made a deep impression.
  
  That’s why they chose the British as colonisers .
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:16am
  - MCōs
    
    I don’t think anyone ’chose’ to be colonized
    
    Colonise
    A (a nation or government) to claim and forcibly take control of (a territory other than its own), usually sending some of its own people to settle there
    
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    February 1, 2024 12:54pm
    - kowtow
      
      1831 petition to King William.
      
      Extract
      
      ‘We have heard that the tribe of Marian [the French] is at hand, coming to take away our land. therefore we pray thee to become our friend and the guardian of these islands, lest the teasing of other tribes should come near us, and lest strangers should come and take away our land.’
      
      https://sites.google.com/site/treaty4dummies/home/petition-to-king-william-iv
      
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      February 1, 2024 3:58pm
    - Colinxy
      
      That’s an interesting definition of colonise. I can see that the Neo Marxist PostColonial Theory has had an influence over the modern definition.
      
      However, Kowtow is correct – at least this played an important role in why many Maori wanted British colonisation (rather than French).
      
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      February 1, 2024 5:40pm
Chuck Bird

This is from The Platform. David has some interesting comments about Helen Clark.

David Cumin Reacts to the Suspension of Funding for UNRWA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhYiN7ntx7g
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February 1, 2024 9:31am
Maggie Pie

Mandatory-Drug-Testing For Our Pollies?

There’s a Petition doing the rounds calling for exactly that.
It’s widespread in the rest of the economy.
So why not the Politicians, who after all are in charge of spending OUR money?

https://www.change.org/p/mandatory-drug-free-policy-for-new-zealand-politicians
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February 1, 2024 9:37am
- Keith White
  
  I’d also like to see all MPs fitted with ankle bracelets so we can monitor their time in their workplace, and their taxpayer-funded cars should be fitted with alcohol interlocks.
  
  They should also have to wear their corporate sponsorship logos i.e. from the donors who funded them to stand for office.
  
  All MPs addresses should be posted on a past and present MPs Register so the gangs know where to find them once they get hold of the database – hey, if it’s good enough for licenced firearms owners, it’s good enough for MPs.
  
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  February 1, 2024 10:01am
- cmm
  
  If they did booze testing it would shorten lunch.
  
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  February 1, 2024 10:47am
Damocles11

Luxon got up in Parliament yesterday and referred to other countries as ‘companies’, to a smattering of derision and laughter from the leftist parties.
Luxon sees himself as the CEO of New Zealand Inc. Big business elites & Iwi elites are the major shareholders….and the general public are the retail shareholders, all the befuddled little people with their little unmarketable parcels.
Turning up at Ratana or Waitangi is like turning up for a meeting with a disgruntled major shareholder, and like all CEO’s the job in that instance is to blow smoke & mollify that shareholder group so he can calm the waters & get on with the important business of running the country.
CEO Luxon has his handpicked executive team + some motley executives brought over from other outfits that he can’t fire, that he has to work with. “I’ll knock them into shape, get them meeting their KPI’s” thinks Luxon. “And I’ll gently steer them away from their wilder ideas which don’t meet the core objectives of the company & aren’t good for business”.
While taking a firm over-view of his executive and keeping them focussed and ‘on message’, Luxon also utilises his skill-set to cast his eye over other parties for sparkling business talent, and he sees slick-talking Green executive James Shaw, looking business-like in a sharp suit and tie. “How impressive, a man after my own heart” thinks Luxon, basking in satisfaction as he recognises his own innate talent-spotting ability “I could certainly make use of him in one of our subsidiaries.”
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February 1, 2024 9:48am
- Tom Hunter
  
  I wish that was satire.
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:06am
- Grunter
  
  Very good – and more accurate than most realise.
  
  He is, of course, still significantly better than any of the nutters in Labour/Greens/TPM. But no one should be fooled by thinking Luxon is ‘one of the good guys’.
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:29am
Keith White

When I was moonlighting as an offshore medic, we had regular as well as occasionally random drug tests.

And by ‘we’ I mean everyone, including the OIM, me the medic, the chef, the electrician – everyone.

I would like to see all MPs, police, employable beneficiaries also tested.
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February 1, 2024 9:52am
- MCōs
  
  As you know drug testing beneficiaries has been tried in the past with few positive results
  In these days of budget constraints and deregulation it’s unlikely to be a goer
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/few-beneficiaries-hit-by-drug-testing/RIEE3J4K56HZ7SLIGRPCYCHEVA/
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:37am
  - Keith White
    
    No, I do not know that drug testing has been tried in the past with few beneficial results. I do know that drug testing works very well in places where if people are drug-addled, huge negative consequences for colleagues and environment can readily take place. On the scale of Exxon Valdez, Piper Alpha etc.
    
    I do know that when we had a positive test on board he was shipped off at the next disembarkation opportunity and never worked in the industry again as far as anybody could make it happen, because you are completely dependent on your work colleagues to do their job as fully functioning as they can be and that doesn’t mean being a glaze-eyed stoned-out boozehound.
    
    In terms of budget constraints, that’s easy – if you’re testing positive you pay the costs. It’ll take a timeline of people testing positive and paying the financial as well as the other costs to entrench the idea that you turn up sober and with a Glasgow Coma Score of 15 to be a policeman, a politician, a taxpayer-funded beneficiary (but I repeat myself) but that’s the price I am willing for you dopeheads to pay.
    
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    February 1, 2024 11:58am
    - Taieri
      
      I do know that when we had a positive test on board he was shipped off at the next disembarkation opportunity and never worked in the industry again as far as anybody could make it happen,
      ———–
      
      Not necessarily. We had an IR who was kicked off the Ocean Bounty for failing a drug test. Joined us on the support vessel the next day because there’s no one else available.
      Generally, the Australian contracts allowed one failed test, providing that the person concerned went for a therapy. In most of cases it worked.
      
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      February 1, 2024 4:14pm
- Ruawai
  
  Easy and cheap to do for beneficiaries. Set up the covid testing stations again, have drive through blood test for drugs with the requirement of photo ID, no show gets your benefit cancelled in one month. If you complain you can’t get there bad luck, if you want free money you should have to be able to at least make it to a monthly drug test.
  
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  February 1, 2024 1:23pm
Inandout

Megan Kelly discusses the absurd Carroll sum awarded and what the Maddow creature has to say to the joyous claimant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKiqwjwJTB4
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February 1, 2024 9:59am
Yvette

Nats’ summer slumber lets ‘rabid dog’ run amok
The awkward truth is that Act’s views on the Treaty are shared by a substantial section of the electorate. The PM needs to wake up and stamp his party’s authority on his Government.

Opinion: Parliament’s resumption this week may lead to the end of National’s summer hibernation. After the excitement of the formation of the new Government and the release of its 100-day action plan, National has largely gone into a summer slumber, leaving the political stage to Act for weeks on end, punctuated occasionally by New Zealand First own goals.

Consequently, Act’s still-evolving plans for the Treaty of Waitangi have dominated the news cycles. The strong opposition from Māori to Act’s intentions have led not only to many exaggerated claims about what Act’s policy will do to Māori but also to a perception, based on media coverage, that opposition to what is happening is widespread across the population.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/02/01/nationals-summer-slumber-allows-rabid-dog-act-to-run-amok/

Subscription today, tomorrow likely I can read the whole thing
But does the sub-headline “views on the Treaty are shared by a substantial section of the electorate”
and “that opposition to what is happening is widespread across the population” contradict each other, or is the latter Maori population portion only?

And is “Nats’ summer slumber lets ‘rabid dog’ run amok” just a little bit biased and slightly fucking rabidly hysterical itself?

Naughty Newsroom – what happened to your motto slogan “Independence Intelligence Integrity”
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February 1, 2024 10:06am
- RichardX
  
  It is labelled as “opinion”
  
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  February 1, 2024 12:22pm
kevn

If you never liked Russell Brand, try this interview with Carlson…
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/one-most-brilliant-explanations-modern-world-russel-brand-sits-tucker-carlson-must-watch
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February 1, 2024 10:10am
- NothingLeft
  
  Brand is eloquent but repetitive and a bit too steeped in supernatural mumbo jumbo (unsurprising for a recovering addict) for my taste. His vocab seems a bit try-hard at times too.
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:13am
BeaB

Catherine Ryan and others on RNZ and elsewhere keep telling us if we don’t vote we can’t complain. Whether I fill in the ridiculously long voting paper (16 candidates) for the Hamilton by-election or not, as long as I pay the eye-watering rates I have every right to complain. And plenty of reasons to do so.
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February 1, 2024 10:14am
- Steve Todd
  
  “[…] for the Hamilton East Ward by-election […].”
  
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  February 1, 2024 12:56pm
MCōs

Facebook memory from eleven years ago
“Back in Thailand & N slipped in behind the wheel of the family car to head off to the supermarket. It’s so much easier to drive in Bangkok than Auckland she said, you only have to worry about the other people on the road; all those road rules in New Zealand are such a nuisance.”
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February 1, 2024 10:24am
Fisiani2

About $135m of funding for cycleways and footpaths was scrapped by Wellington City Council.
Karori’s unwanted proposed cycleway is finally gone.
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February 1, 2024 10:36am
- Biscuit
  
  Oh yay!
  
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  February 1, 2024 12:32pm
Maggie Pie

Anyone missing that leftard tosser Matty McClean on telly?

LOL!!
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February 1, 2024 10:45am
- mandk
  
  Nah, he’s just another former weather boy, like that waste of space Tamati Coffey.
  
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  February 1, 2024 12:03pm
- Biscuit
  
  That statement sort of implies that there are rightard tossers on telly, Maggie…
  
  Matty never much bothered me – mind, I probably tuned in to Breakfast no more than twice during his time on that programme – although when I did see him, usually on Seven Sharp as a filler-inner for Jeremy – I was always unnerved by his unblinking STARE at the camera…
  
  On Breakfast, I had my biggest chuckle in years when I caught a promo for that show. Apparently, ‘Breakfast is back and is bringing New Zealanders together again’…
  
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  February 1, 2024 12:31pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The one that giggles like a schoolgirl?
  Nope.
  
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  February 1, 2024 1:13pm
Swifty

I will never understand this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/money/350163753/damage-dirt-and-rubbish-tenants-facing-23000-bill

Is it mental illness?

What did they think was going to happen?
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February 1, 2024 11:05am
- Arthur Fleck
  
  They have no respect for themselves or others. Simply uncivilised.
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:38am
- Inandout
  
  Swift. ‘property mangers’ is apt for some, but the rest do manage quite well. Stuff is still for sale.
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:46am
- Tom Hunter
  
  I will not help Stuff survive by feeding them clicks so could you give a synopsis of the story, please?
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:47am
  - Swifty
    
    Renters leave rubbish, filth and damage in addition to large rent arrears.
    
    All up over $40k. That’ll be them buggered for any future private rental.
    
    It’s a head scratcher.
    
    Social housing here we come, I guess.
    
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    February 1, 2024 5:42pm
    - artemisia
      
      I’m sure their loving family will happily take them into their home. They will for sure need cheap digs while they work two jobs each to pay back the landlord. //
      
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      February 1, 2024 6:55pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  It’s all really good getting the tenancy ruling, but will the poor landlord actually see any of that money?
  I doubt it.
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:50am
  - artemisia
    
    Repayment on the 50 year plan? There are remedies, including attachment orders on income including benefits, and two tenants liable in this case. Even so …
    
    However, meantime the landlord or debt collector for same can make life very difficult for a very long time.
    
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    February 1, 2024 7:03pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Good luck with getting the $41k off Tafetoto and his missus 😎
  
  Suck it up sweetie LOL!!
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:55am
- Keith White
  
  If they bothered to think about it at all, they knew that they’d be absolved from the consequences of their actions by modern entitled-beneficiary culture.
  
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  February 1, 2024 11:59am
- Libertarians are right
  
  Nothing. Nothing is what will happen. Did you not notice the $16,300 outstanding rent?
  Maybe they’ll have to pay back $5 per week.
  
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  February 1, 2024 12:02pm
- rouppe
  
  Tenants who left their rental in the worst condition the property manger had ever seen…
  The landlord told the tribunal every wall had been drawn on, the carpet was stained and curtains and windowsills were mouldy.
  
  There were also holes in the walls, burns in the carpet, damage to the vanity, damage to a pool pump, broken glass in a conservatory and garden shed, a broken toilet seat, cook top elements and the dishwasher not working, and holes in two doors.
  
  Clearly the property manager never did an inspection, and never issued a notice to remediate any of the damage as it happened.
  
  My insurance policy said I had to do at least 3 monthly inspections, otherwise they would decline any claim.
  
  That’s why I never used a property manager.
  
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  February 1, 2024 12:26pm
  - artemisia
    
    Sometimes owners engage a property manager to deal with a bad situation where they have tried and failed. That to me seems a likely scenario.
    
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    February 1, 2024 6:58pm
slightlyrighty

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/briefings-for-incoming-ministers-bims-released-to-national-nz-first-act-coalition-government/

this could be interesting…..
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February 1, 2024 11:53am
Tauhei Notts

Obesity.
In country towns around where I live one sees a number of obese men, both brown and white. There are very few obese white women. A bit over weight; built for comfort, not for speed, but not obese.
I had 20 hours in Wellington this week; I was waiting for some time at the foot of The Terrace. What got me was the number of obese white women. By obese I mean ones that wouldn’t fit in an economy class seat. It was incredible. Not curvaceous, but grossly fat. And no obese men in sight. Weird.
I don’t know why but the election results in Rongotai and Wellington Central surprised me. I might now be getting the picture.
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February 1, 2024 11:56am
- Maggie Pie
  
  You’ll never find them playing tennis either.
  Even since boarding school days we’ve called them…..
  “Buffet Slayers” and “Jelly Jumpers” (among other things LOL!! )
  
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  February 1, 2024 12:43pm
  - BeaB
    
    Classy
    
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    February 1, 2024 2:15pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      @ Steve 😀 😀 😀
      
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      February 1, 2024 4:41pm
- Ruawai
  
  Maybe there was an American cruise ship in town.
  
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  February 1, 2024 1:25pm
- BeaB
  
  Why are you so obsessed?
  
  2 1
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  February 1, 2024 2:15pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Good question, BeaB, which Tauhei Notts will not acknowledge.
    
    It was just a puerile, weak excuse, apropos of nothing, to have a crack at Wellington and the Green Party.
    
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    February 1, 2024 3:43pm
- wsk12345
  
  Gosh, I lived in Wellington 15 years ago and there was t any visible obesity. Porirua yes but not Wn city.
  
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  February 1, 2024 3:03pm
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    I worked in Lambton Quay 1973-74 and there was none of that obesity in Wellington.
    I do not think my comment was a puerile excuse, as Steve odd noted, just a note of my observations.
    None of those blobs of protoplasm at The Dirty Little Secret, corner of Taranaki and Dixon Streets. What a lovely bar, with a view to die for.
    
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    February 1, 2024 9:32pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  When you come back to NZ from overseas you notice the obesity.
  Blaming whitey for Maori health, or telling people they are perfect as they are is a deadly mix.
  Fat positivity is closer to genocide than any Gaza offensive.
  People in NZ with side-boobs at the check-out loading up half a dozen large bottles of soft drink and grabbing an energy drink to go is not unusual.
  I don’t know if the people are really stupid, don’t care anymore, or what their malfunction is.
  You don’t see many of them with a full head of grey hair……
  
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  February 1, 2024 3:17pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Cake Tuesday
  
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  February 1, 2024 7:41pm
Keith White

Ah, the joys and benefits of diversity…

So we have a gentleman from the Middle East who enters New Zealand and promptly commits an illegal act by overstaying. (I know exactly how that feels, because I was made to overstay in Eastern Europe by the Arden government denying me re-entry after my overseas work assignment finished, and that is one country that I can never go back to because I was an overstayer. I could see their point of view especially as the New Zealand Embassy and the location was 100% unwilling to provide any documentation to support the idea that my own government refused to let me home. That’s a little bit of digression, but relevant to Mr Overstayer, because…

…having started life in a new country with a criminal act, flouting the terms of his entry as a foreigner, he decides he want to be a policeman.
Perhaps even more naturally given background, in the hagiographic article in the provincial newspaper he then complains about a lack of representation of Arab communities within the New Zealand police and tells us all his ambition is to (a) join the national ethnic partnerships team and (b) to be more a part of (policing) Arab occasions and Muslim occasions in general.

There is more, but equally emetic, if like me you have the point of view that a policeman should police all people equally.

Since he also mentions the mosque attack (by another immigrant) as a memorable priority for his policing future, I think it’s really a little bit uncertain as to whether he will be able to police everybody equally.

I would hope that his Training Officer (since he is a recent graduate from Police College) takes him quietly aside and gives him some sensible advice about “shut up and treat everyone equally regardless of your internal ethnocentric dialogue buddy”) but I doubt it; with Coster in charge of New Zealand’s Blue Patched Gang, Wokism Rules Supreme.

(Mod; link is to the full article).
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/whanganui-chronicle/news/refugee-who-left-syrian-civil-war-joins-new-zealand-police/BEY763AOMZE55MO5GFROEV4F6M/
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February 1, 2024 12:12pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Heartwarming indeed.
  I hope in between his wish to do good for other Arabs and Muslims, mosques etc. he is prepared to engage with local tangata whenua and modern Maori sub-culture.
  That is where the bulk of policing demand for service resides.
  
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  February 1, 2024 3:24pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  His back-story sounds quite similar to Gollys.
  
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  February 1, 2024 4:47pm
BeaB

Why do people have such a problem with seeing Luxon as CEO? My preference would always be for someone who can skilfully manage a complex organisation and all its stakeholders than for a pol sci graduate.
In fact we can see exactly what 6 years of pol sci and comms graduates have done to the country.
A competent CEO who can read a balance sheet is a far better prospect. Even if he doesn’t get immersed in the tedious minutiae Labour, the Greens and Guyon Espiner get obsessed with.
They play a trivial game.
Luxon strikes me as a serious person with serious goals. I’m happy to give him a chance as he settles in to the crazy world of politics.
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February 1, 2024 12:28pm
- MCōs
  
  Usually an MP settles into the crazy world of politics before they become PM
  
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  February 1, 2024 8:49pm
rouppe

Briefings to ministers. Police to Mark Mitchell:

Mitchell’s briefing outlined how global factors – technological advancement, transnational crime, geopolitical influence – combined with local factors – cost of living pressures, declined mental wellbeing, depravation, increased willingness to use firearms – to shape the policing environment.

Depravation might be the correct word, but am I the only one who has a suspicioun that they meant “deprivation”?
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February 1, 2024 12:51pm
- kowtow
  
  From the same source and under Corrections
  
  ‘Since 2017, the number of people in the community on electronically monitored (EM) bail – an alternative to imprisonment while on remand awaiting sentence or trial – has increased from 495 in 2017 to 1743 in November last year, the briefing said.’
  
  Looks like we’re being jepradised.
  
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  February 1, 2024 3:37pm
- Keith White
  
  Oh, I’d say a fair amount of depravity is also involved in their feral beastliness – especially against children and women.
  
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  February 1, 2024 3:51pm
artemisia

Department of Conservation CEO tells staff –ZB Plus understands that Nelson’s presentation to staff yesterday signalled that significant downsizing would be expected as well as job losses. During the same presentation, Nelson is also understood to have announced two new senior-level “change management” leadership positions. ZB Plus sources described this announcement as “tone-deaf”.

Since the article is written by Philip Crump aka ‘Thomas Cranmer’, good chance those sources are pretty good. Though a DOC spox seems to think there may be a ‘misinterpretation’.

Currently paywalled on ZBPlus.
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February 1, 2024 1:05pm
Maggie Pie

HORRIFIC!!

One guess as to the perp’s religion….

https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1752828681183981740

Yet another example of ‘cultural enrichment’ 🙁
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February 1, 2024 1:08pm
- Ruawai
  
  Loved the satire comment: “A small price to pay for a nice kebab once in a while.”
  
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  February 1, 2024 1:28pm
- Keith White
  
  The locals are just implementing Sadiq Khan’s latest message – that “A white family ‘doesn’t represent real Londoners’.” I guess his supporters prefer the purple of cicatrice tissue.
  
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  February 1, 2024 3:56pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
People such as PSPLA Patricia McConnell are the people who want tribal rule in NZ.
“While CIPU will not be prosecuting you for this event any future, similar breaches could result in prosecution action under s 45(2) of the PSPPI Act.”

That is a threat from a Government Department. The Public Sector is full of these people who want control. Flush them out!
Listen up McConnell, there is a Treaty Truth Tour of NZ starting up soon.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/government-agency-threatens-to-fine-stop-co-governance-for-not-using-licensed-security-guards-at-stop-co-governance-events-in-2023/?
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February 1, 2024 1:09pm
- artemisia
  
  I guess they are required to follow the law as it stands. Maybe David Seymour could add the PSPPI Act to his little list.
  
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  February 1, 2024 2:30pm
MCōs

I’ve noticed that when our PM gets flustered & doesn’t really seem to believe what he’s saying he talks at a hundred miles an hour
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February 1, 2024 1:11pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Interviewers never stop him and throw another 5 questions at him.
  
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  February 1, 2024 2:07pm
- Inandout
  
  MC, Shane Jones or Winston are wise to reporters.
  
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  February 1, 2024 2:25pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The putdowns are funny. Winston will not answer another question until he has fully answered the first LOL!
    
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    February 1, 2024 3:52pm
Maggie Pie

Very good friend of ours live not too far from JK’s pile in Parnell.
They were saying they were absolutely horrified to learn that Kaianga-Ora had been allowed to buy an apartment complex in the area.
It’s causing sooo much concernation among business and homeowners, yet KO turn a deaf ear to the complaints, telling them….”they should call the police to deal with it”.

Yet another example of where we’re heading after 6 years of Ardern 🙁
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February 1, 2024 1:45pm
- kiwikidsnz
  
  I have been waiting for some time to see homeowners facing KO infill in their suburbs organise a class action for actual damages (reduction in property value). Theres increasingly frequent reports of the KO & the councils jacking up these deals with minimal / no consultation. Similar applied for the installation of cycle lanes through suburb thoroughfares (removing street parking, in Wgtn many properties dont have onsite parking).
  
  Perhaps the lawyers could comment on whether such action is even possible in NZ
  
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  February 1, 2024 2:25pm
- MCōs
  
  Oh the horror
  
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  February 1, 2024 2:26pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Lucky you MCos, no arsewipes living next door.
    
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    February 1, 2024 2:29pm
    - MCōs
      
      I don’t use that sort of provincial terminology when complaining about the people who own the house next door when they yell and scream in the middle of the night
      I thought they were throttling each other, but l had a look one time and they were yelling at the computer
      
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      February 1, 2024 5:31pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        luv ya cossie LOL!!
        
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        February 1, 2024 6:52pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, there are some large buildings in St Georges Bay Rd going begging.
  
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  February 1, 2024 2:30pm
  - greybeard
    
    In the late 1960s I lived for a time at a boarding house at No. 25 St. George’s Bay Rd. I think it was called “Garden Road Guest House” or something similar. Fantastic old place, it had an enormous Asian tapestry on one wall of the TV lounge.
    The house next door at No. 27 was built on what used to be the tennis court of Queen Salote of Tonga’s residence which I presume was where No. 29 is now.
    Sorry – just the ramblings of an old bloke.
    
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    February 1, 2024 4:56pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Doubt you’d even recognise the hood then these days Grey.
      Hasn’t been any PI’s living there for yonks.
      Although that may well have changed again now of course.
      
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      February 1, 2024 5:16pm
- artemisia
  
  Landlords, including social housing landlords, can issue antisocial behaviour notices to tenants. And once the required level of notifications are sent, request the Tenancy Tribunal to terminate the tenancy. Not sure that happens often, if at all.
  
  Where police are involved and tenants are identified, complaints to landlords should result in antisocial behaviour notices. So complain. Rinse and repeat …
  
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  February 1, 2024 2:39pm
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    KO was reported a year or so ago to have had a policy under Labour of never evicting their tenants no matter how many complaints
    
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    February 1, 2024 3:33pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  As our friends said……You can imagine the absolute ‘glee’ in the Kaianga-Ora boardroom when they were able to outbid every other housing developer in Auckland to purchase the prize Parnell complex. MONEY NO OBJECT.
  
  Now they sit back laughing their arses off at the fallout they knew it would generate.
  
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  February 1, 2024 3:55pm
Sparrow

On this beautiful day in Northland thought I would share this comment made to me last week by an inspirational and very successful New Zealand businessman. I asked how he got on with the bureaucrats. His brillant and succinct answer ” Ignore them” This is what we all should do and make New Zealand a better place for all.
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February 1, 2024 2:21pm
- cmm
  
  I expect he says the same about politicians.
  
  If your future depends on any particular brand of politician being in office, or Luxon not being a whimpish sook, then you’re stuffed. Your future is stuffed.
  
  Build your future (ie. business and personal life) so that who is in power doesn’t really matter. Sure, the right people might sprinkle a few more toppings on the icecream, but the wrong lot shouldn’t turn your life into a disaster.
  
  You really don’t have to be a victim to the vagaries of voters.
  
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  February 1, 2024 4:45pm
Swifty

Usyk versus Fury promo:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9RWW1pI8kDo

They’ve gone to a bit of trouble….
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February 1, 2024 2:21pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Here’s an interesting story about Hawaii & its transition to renewable energy. In a sense, their challenges are our challenges; it’s NZ in microcosm.

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Renewable-Energy/Hawaiis-Clean-Energy-Push-A-Model-for-the-Mainland.html
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February 1, 2024 2:22pm
PurplePen

Have any of the islamic countries offered to take refugees from Palestine such as Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indonesia.
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February 1, 2024 2:46pm
- mandk
  
  Of course not.
  
  They all know that any Palestinian refugees would cause no end of trouble in their countries.
  
  Ask the Jordanians what the Palestinians did when Jordan took some in.
  
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  February 1, 2024 3:32pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  When I was in Malaysia recently, KL, a local Malay was complaining to me around the amount of Rohingyas in the country, and even pointed to a passing dark person and asked ‘Rohingya?’, but the guy said No and walked on by.
  This Malay from the countryside didn’t like the flood of immigrants, No Sirree.
  So while there were lots of Palestinian flags out on display across Malaysia, it does not mean that Muslims in other lands want to take their co-religionist brethren in.
  Leave that for the weak and bleeding hearted westerners who cry for Open Borders.
  Plenty of short sighted people amongst us willing to fluff-out the pillow on the death-bed of western civilisation.
  
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  February 1, 2024 3:32pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Palestinians are despised by most Arab states, and most Arabs for that matter.
  
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  February 1, 2024 4:31pm
  - Inandout
    
    krazy, the fact Arabs despise Palestinians in the pecking order brings to mind the Arab attitude to African negroes. They considered the latter lesser human and this led to Arab traders successfully slave trading with the assistance of African tribal chiefs. Did the chiefs have doubts about sending their finest to be shipped like cattle around the world for monetary compensation…shit no.
    
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    February 1, 2024 5:10pm
    - cmm
      
      “Did the chiefs have doubts about sending their finest to be shipped like cattle around the world”
      
      That is not really how it worked. They didn’t send THEIR finest. They sent the finest of captured tribes.
      
      Africa does not just think racially. They think tribally too.
      
      For example, Zulus tended to consider all other tribes as scum. The other tribes did the same. While a Zulu probably wouldn’t have sold another Zulu into slavery he would have had no such qualms with another person of another tribe.
      
      Note, I am not saying that Zulus were themselves slavers. The Arabian slavers didn’t seem to go further South than Modern day Mozambique. The main reason for that is that further south (ie. modern day South Africa) the coast is treacherous with few safe natural harbours so the Arabian traders were not keep on traveling further. They could get all the slaves they wanted north of there.
      
      The main slavers the Arabians dealt with were in and around modern-day Tanzania. Slaving was rife there through the German period and it was only brought to an end when the Brits kicked the Germans out during WW1 and stamped out slavery there.
      
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      February 1, 2024 8:54pm
Maggie Pie

And I’ll tell you who seems to have gone very quite…. Shaneel Lall.
One of the girls from tennis reckons he hasn’t even got an ‘X’ account these days where people can post abuse.

Big girls blouse! 😀
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February 1, 2024 4:18pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, no doubt he is holed up somewhere in Ponsonby.
  
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  February 1, 2024 5:11pm
NZL Fusion

Why does TVNZs Waitangi Day promotion ad contain: Mud slinging at Brash and Dildo at Joice? Is this to encourage violence or division?
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February 1, 2024 5:01pm
cmm

Yet another thing the human jellyfish can’t express an opinion about. This time the minimum wage.

Come on man, take a position on something.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350165587/minimum-wage-rise-2315-despite-warning
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February 1, 2024 6:14pm
- Ghost
  
  Nothing wrong with what he is saying in this old interview. He supports minimum wage increases but there are a time and place for them and when it is done when the economy is struggling those small business cannot afford those rises.
  
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  February 1, 2024 7:20pm
Swifty

Hawley mauls Zuckerberg:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FNaMjWCBdDU

Ouch.
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February 1, 2024 6:43pm
Gravelroad

There is no way that TVNZ should be allowing political reporter, Maiki Sherman, to front Maori and ToW issues and report on the Waitangi Day “celebrations”.
She is clearly coming from a position of personal bias and speaks only from her own entrenched position as a Maori activist.
Her attitude and agenda pushing is an embarrassment to professional journalism.
Please find someone with a more balanced approach.
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February 1, 2024 6:46pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING 1EWES

See where that horrible murdering b*stard Glen McNeill, the former chef from Nelson who violently stabbed to death that poor girl on Norfolk Island 20 years ago, is now being deported back here 🙁

As my partner said….”thank fcuk he’s going to Christchurch”
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February 1, 2024 7:10pm
Maggie Pie

And I’ll tell you something else that is REALLY pissing us off.
There’s a group of unwashed Palestinian activists making a f**ing racket chanting outside Luxo’s house!

Lowering the tone of the whole hood 🙁
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February 1, 2024 7:44pm
Paul

One question I have for Maori that claim that they own New Zealand.

Who owns where you came from?
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February 1, 2024 8:11pm

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