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January 23, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 January 2024

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Yvette

If you are already depressed a bit, and don’t want to be more so, scroll down to the next comment.

‘A total disgrace and a slap in the face for the judiciary‘
Labour’s Māori Development spokesperson Willie Jackson however said [the Coalition] bill was a “total breach” of the Treaty, its obligations, and the partnership between Māori and the Crown.
“It’s a total attack on the Treaty and the partnership that we have, that Māori have with the Crown, and it continues the negative themes from this government from day one.

“The reality is that the Treaty principles – in terms of what’s been drawn up in terms of the ‘partnership‘ – was already a compromise from Māori. That’s why the judiciary wrote up the partnership model – so if they want to go down this track they’ll open up a can of worms that they’ll live to regret.”

He said the government should not be pushing ahead with the bill.
“Absolutely, absolutely not, and Luxon should show some leadership and rule it out now. This is a disgrace, what ACT are doing, a total disgrace and a slap in the face for the judiciary and all the leaders who in past years have entrenched the partnership.

“You’re talking about National Party leaders like Jenny Shipley, Jim Bolger, Doug Graham, John Key. This is just laughable and idiotic stuff that is coming from Seymour, and Luxon should shut this down now because it goes in the face of legal opinion, legal history, judiciary decisions since 1987, prime ministerial decisions from National and Labour.

“All of a sudden we’ve got this so-called expert Seymour who thinks he knows more than every prime minister of the last 40 years and every High Court judge, Supreme Court judge – you name it … absolute rubbish and it should be thrown out.”
He said Seymour was “trying to placate his money men … trying to placate some of his extreme right wing mates“.

He did not trust the government to do as Luxon had said it would, and end support for the bill once it reached select committee.
“I mean surely this government would be the last group of people you’d trust right now wouldn’t you think? These are people that are going to disband our magnificent smokefree laws to look after their tax cuts.
“They also must be told in no uncertain terms that there can be no compromise on the Treaty relationship.”
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/507158/opposition-parties-urge-christopher-luxon-to-shut-down-treaty-principles-bill

Someone should tell Willie Jackson the kupu (word) “partnership” is not in the Treaty
On June 24, 2022, a United States Supreme Court ruling overturned Roe, ending the federal constitutional right to abortion in the United States. Abortion is not in the United States Constitution – so reproductive rights are being decided state by state.

And here media mobbed Christopher Luxon, with really dopey questions, trying to wedge the door open on abortion, which Luxon promised is a shut case for an Ardernity– but no-one asked What additions have been tacked onto our ‘Founding Document’, the Treaty, and should be Alito’ed now to regain its original mana?
The kupu “partnership” is not in the Treaty, Willie Jackson – nor is “Aotearoa” for that matter

If a 1840s colonising agreement is to be afforded the status of a nation’s founding document, then stick to what is actually in it, or with full agreement of that nation’s citizenry, amend it as the Americans have 27 times for their Constitution.
But don’t face off what you consider to be misinformation, with disinformation of your own, Willie
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January 23, 2024 8:01am
- Grunter
  
  And now the Nats are pretty much supporting crazy Willie. Seymour trying to wordsmith what the Nats are saying, but the Treaty referendum is dead in the water.
  
  Typical National, wet, woke and soft as butter on the big issues!! Grrrr….
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:14am
  - Ghost
    
    You probably need to read the coalition agreement, national and New Zealand First only agreed for this to go to the select committee. As Winston said, it is then up to act and those submitting to convince both national and New Zealand first it is needed. So the ball is in your court if you want it progressed to make submissions
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:29am
    - Grunter
      
      You are correct, BUT
      
      To openly say you will vote this down no matter what the select committee finds/discovers is totally wrong. That is what the Nats are saying …. it will not proceed past the first stage.
      
      Winston is saying it’s up to ACT to convince him – exactly right.
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:47am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        They are not voting it down, they will vote it to select committee stage, then if the wording is right then who knows
        
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        January 23, 2024 11:06am
      - Ghost
        
        I’d suggest reading this article, and actually reading what Seymour has to say
        
        https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/act-hopes-to-change-national-s-mind-on-pushing-treaty-principles-bill-through-parliament/ar-BB1gVKlo
        
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        January 23, 2024 11:07am
      - Damocles11
        
        Disappointing; if Winston ‘fails to be convinced’ then it’ll be another case of him being full of fire and brimstone in opposition but milquetoast in government.
        
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        January 23, 2024 11:18am
      - JerJer
        
        National are just keeping their powder dry. They can say what they want now to keep the feral crowd happy. Then they support this through select committee at which time public submissions are able to be made. They will be massive. Loads of people will write submissions and it will become very very clear that there is massive support.
        
        At that time National will change tack and further support the Bill’s progression as a result of this support.
        
        There will be a massive fight that starts at that point. A huge majority will support this (and already do), the load minority of the woke and the bludgers will resist. The progression of the bill to select committee will bring this into the public domain (that is the whole idea I believe). To resolve it, the government will progress the only fair way of deciding, which will be via referendum, which will pass. Game over, will of the people, sorry guys.
        
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        January 23, 2024 11:47am
      - ISeeRed
        
        JerJer, I want to believe. I really do.
        
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        January 23, 2024 12:33pm
    - rouppe
      
      I’ve been overseas for a month and only lightly keeping touch.
      
      Are submissions open?
      
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      January 23, 2024 10:50am
      - Ghost
        
        I don’t think act have got it past its draft yet.
        
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        January 23, 2024 10:57am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      That’s not what he said yesterday, his mouth once again getting him in trouble, he said Nats have not ruled out voting for this, and if you read what I said properly, I stated they said vote it till select committee, and then you never know what might happen, but he is going to have to word things better than he has been the last month or so, because it simply sounds like he wants the treaty ditched, we know that’s not what he is saying, but it comes across this way
      
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      January 23, 2024 11:47am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    No, they are sticking with what was agreed in the coalition agreement, and that was support to select committee stage, nothing has changed accept Seymour trying to suggest what was well versed during the negotiations somehow is not
    
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    January 23, 2024 11:05am
    - Grunter
      
      No, the Nats came out yesterday and today and publically said that they will not allow this to go past the select committee stage. THEY WILL VOTE IT DOWN. That is the new bit.
      
      The coalition agreement says that National will take it to select committee stage (correct) BUT it doesn’t say “and then we will vote it down no matter what”.
      
      Tricky-dicky Nats (again!)
      
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      January 23, 2024 11:42am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Not going passed select committee means they will be voting it down as it comes through the house, same with NZF, and that’s what was agreed, you realise select committee comes first
        
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        January 23, 2024 11:50am
      - nathie
        
        Hey Grunter, I just heard trade minister Todd McClay on The Country radio show on ZB.
        
        He said to the host that National will make up its mind once the public have had their say (as part of the Select Committee process) and that the public’s views are important – they will be listened to.
        
        So they are not “voting it down” – I reckon that’s the MSM being mischievous.
        
        As commentator “Damocles11” reminds us later in these threads, the MSM is signed up to misinformation such as “Maori never ceded sovereignty”, so expect more of the MSM trying to drive wedges between the coalition parties and their supporters.
        
        Note how the coalition parties are not playing the MSM game …. perhaps we all could too?
        
        (The link to today’s The Country show and therefore interview will appear at the bottom of this page later this afternoon):
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/
        
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        January 23, 2024 12:27pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    We are still in the trenches against the loony left. The war is far from over. Keep financially supporting Hobson’s Pledge, RCR, The Platform, The Free Speech Coalition, Taxpayers Union and so on. They get the message out to the sheeple.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:29pm
- Paulus
  
  Willie survives on misinformation including his own large part Pakeha ethnicity.
  Silly boy – loves the media though. and they love him !
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:15am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    What about the Jewish bit?
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:27am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      He’s being remote controlled by The Joos as well?😀
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:33pm
- herb1
  
  The “ reality” Willie , is that your leader , the Maori King, told us that their are “ no treaty principles just the treaty”.
  Catch up Willie
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:25am
- Blog-aholic
  
  The one thing you can be assured of is that W. Jackson has a large mouth hole.
  The other thing you can be assured of is that when that gapping maw opens what flows out is both nonsense and lies.
  Similarly like the rest of the activist ‘maori’ politicians, lawyers, academics and activists that think that the document from 1840 has somehow morphed into the thing they say it is on any given day or mood they are in.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:26am
- Cassandra
  
  “We see the treaty for what it is: an historic contract between the British and Maori chiefs that contributed to the formation of the modern, democratic state that is New Zealand, where every citizen now shares citizenship on the same basis.” Wrote Paul Goldsmith. Good basis for a ToW Principles Act. Labour will oppose it but have to do contortions to explain themselves and even then they’ll offend their former blue collar supporters. The next election will be the referendum.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:31am
- All_on_Red
  
  Gee, Willie sounds quite ‘insurrectiony’ to me
  Does that disqualify him from public office?
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:36am
  - Cinematic
    
    Dangerously deluded is a fit description. These activist Maori believe it is their right to trample on our democracy. The people have spoken, I say sod off to the lot of them.
    
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    January 23, 2024 8:51am
  - Yvette
    
    All_on_Red
    Willie may not be ‘insurrectionary’ but it does raise the dichotomy of honest representation of an issue and one in which a person has obvious vast conflicts of interest, are greatly influenced by forces outside Parliament. like Tuku and Nanaia, which may be another matter here, and – as was said of President Trump: “Most Presidents on enter office have a few things to prove, but rarely has it been one’s sanity.”
    And the same commenter – two magnificent hits in a row – also said “If karma is true, Donald is the one man who will come back as himself!”
    Or Willie
    
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    January 23, 2024 8:53am
- Scott
  
  Quite right. There is no partnership. Partnership implies equality.
  
  The idea that Queen Victoria would enter into a partnership with the Maori people is absurd. On one side we have a sovereign whose empire it was boasted the sun never sets. On the other side we have 100,000 illiterate tribal people.
  In the words of the Tui ad – Yeah right!
  
  In 1840 the Maori people became British subjects. Subjects of the crown, not partners with the crown.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:46am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    I agree with the gist of your point about partnership. But it’s not entirely accurate to describe Maaori in general as “illiterate” in 1840. The first newspaper in Maaori was published in 1842 (Ko te Karere o Nui Tireni) so there were more than a few literate Maaori by then. On the other hand, by no means all of the new arrivals were literate – many of the British redcoats who fought the land wars couldn’t read or write.
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:30am
    - Scott
      
      Pope – in 1840 most Maori could not read or write. Their language had only just been written down, by British people.
      The chiefs at Waitangi in 1840 relied on what was said, not what was written down.
      
      Indeed one chief showed he understood the Treaty by arguing against it. He said it was against his mana to be under a woman (Queen Victoria).
      
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      January 23, 2024 10:41am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Yes, most Maaori were illiterate then. But not ALL of them.
        
        But your point about sovereignty is correct – Colenso’s account of what some of the chiefs said shows they understood they would have to recognize Queen Victoria as having authority over them.
        
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        January 23, 2024 12:27pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      And there’s that Maori translation for New Zealand again… “Nu(I) Tirani”, just like the ToW Maori translation says. NO Aotearoa.
      
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      January 23, 2024 12:07pm
- KH
  
  Oh my. The newly elected government setting out to do what it said it would. And what the people asked for. How terrible.
  (Sarc alert)
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:52am
- pdm
  
  Willie my understanding is that all ACT wants to do is stop the `Bastardisation’ of the Treaty since Geoffrey Palmer got involved with it in 1989 and particularly since your (so called) Maori Caucus took control of the Labour Government in the period 2020 to 2023.
  
  Willie what part of National, ACT and NZFirst won, you lost, now shut up and go away do you not understand?
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:08am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    I wish I could meet Mr Jackson in person so I could discuss his threats on a more intimate basis.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:12am
    - Keith White
      
      Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level and try to beat you with their experience at that level.
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:36am
    - pdm
      
      Getting intimate on any sort of basis with Willie is a scary thought Stella.
      
      Then again if you are prepared to take one for the Kiwiblog team we will want a full and frank report. lol.
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:47am
    - G152
      
      Be like his father a fine pair of heels when confronted
      
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      January 23, 2024 10:31am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Are you referring to his uncle, Syd Jackson? I suspect you might be.
        
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        January 23, 2024 10:55am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    If he had explained that better then he may well have got a better reception,
    
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    January 23, 2024 11:53am
- KiWombat
  
  The treaty was never intended to be enduring – here’s why –
  
  In all treaties and western “law based” documents there is included the clause “Her/His heirs and successors according to law” – there is a primitive version of these words included in the Magna Carta, and in legal documents since that date. In fact, every member of the house has taken an oath which includes this phrase, as has every local government representative, doctors and lawyers and those of many other professions.
  
  And yet the treaty has no reference to these words, an any way, shape or form.
  
  Therefore we can only come to one of two conclusions. Firstly – that those who drafted the treaty were a bunch of idiots, that Victoria and the best legal advice that the Empire could muster simply forgot to include this phrase of endurement. Or – secondly – that it was never intended that the treaty remain enduring after Victoria’s reign.
  
  I do not consider that Victoria and her advisors were a bunch of idiots, so there is only one conclusion that I can come to –
  
  THE TREATY WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE ENDURING
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:10am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Of course it wasn’t it was a simple transaction.
    
    You cede sovereignty
    We guarantee property rights (and only the Crown can buy off you)
    You become British subjects with the rights and obligations of any other British subject.
    
    Once and done. It was a pretty sweet deal compared to the lived alternatives of endemic tribal warfare, slavery, cannibalism, and rat cunning settlers and chancer Chiefs stirring up trouble.
    
    Probably among the most generous Treaties ever offered by Her Majesty.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:29am
    - pdm
      
      nige – not to mention the French and the Dutch lurking nearby waiting for their opportunity.
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:50am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        And the Americans in the Bay of Islands
        
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        January 23, 2024 11:04am
    - Yvette
      
      the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      Probably among the most generous Treaties ever offered by Her Majest
      
      Māori own the water because this country was settled by consent, not conquest, under the Treaty of Waitangi – John Tamihere
      
      Māori own the water – wrong
      this country was settled by consent, not conquest – right
      
      It was not conquered like India –
      
      In 40 years, between 1880 and 1920, British colonialism killed 100 million Indians and, according to research by economic historian, Robert Allen, extreme poverty in India increased under British rule, from 23% in 1810 to more than 50% in the mid-20th century
      
      – and as you say –
      
      a pretty sweet deal compared to the lived alternatives of endemic tribal warfare, slavery, cannibalism, and rat cunning settlers and chancer Chiefs stirring up trouble.
      
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      January 23, 2024 11:16am
      - Scott
        
        Yvette – your comments on British colonialism are wrong headed I’m sorry. Check the facts again. Winston Churchill is a good guide to British affairs in India I would suggest.
        
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        January 23, 2024 1:01pm
- Burtland
  
  the trough looks like it will dry up and willie cant get his hands on the tap – expect more squealing and bad behavior
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:15am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    As in dog whistling to dumb thugs?
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:36pm
- PurplePen
  
  MSM and other what I would call high profile people keep referring to the ToW as our founding document. It’s only one of many founding documents. Consider this list of founding documents. FSource: The Laws of New Zealand – Constitutional Law:
  
  The Magna Carta 1297
  
  Petition of Rights 1627
  
  Bill of Rights 1688
  
  Imperial Laws Application Act 1988 mean the above three continue to apply as law in New Zealand under this Act.
  
  Treaty of Waitangi 1840
  
  (NZ) Constitution Act 1986. New Zealand’s principal constitutional statute and is sometimes likened to a written constitution, but the instrument is declaratory only of New Zealand’s existing constitutional arrangements and is not protected from change by the ordinary legislative process.
  
  He Whakaputanga o te Rangatiratanga o Nu Tireni – known in English as the Declaration of Independence of the United Tribes of New Zealand. First signed by 34 Northern Māori rangatira (chiefs) on 28 October 1835, He Whakaputanga collected a further 18 signatures by 1839. Southern Maori were not party to this at all.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:46am
- colina
  
  Bob Jones said it all during the Key Govt
  Bob Jones: Blatant try-on shows it’s time to derail Treaty gravy train
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/bob-jones-blatant-try-on-shows-its-time-to-derail-treaty-gravy-train/JC25UTOYU3DYXMX6G3BREUGDTY/
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:02am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    And what did Key do to derail the gravy train?
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:36am
    - Damocles11
      
      He set it more firmly on its tracks.
      
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      January 23, 2024 11:19am
    - Yvette
      
      Key, through Sharples, stated the Treaty was the bounds of New Zealand’s engagement with UNDRIP.
      He didn’t derail the “gravy train”, but it should have limited the carriages Willie Jackson and his iwi ilk have added to it.
      
      Bring on the “gravy train” crash
      
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      January 23, 2024 11:34am
  - OlderChas
    
    BeJAYzuz colina! (And all of us). Can you imagine the Whorald allowing a column (article?) like that to be published today?
    
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    January 23, 2024 6:06pm
- tedbear
  
  Kiingi Tuuheitia, speaking at the end of the hui, pushed for peace and unity.
  Well he can push all he likes but at the end of the day he has no constitutional capacity. He’s a British subject with no more power than you or I.
  
  He suggested the Treaty should stay as it is.
  Well wouldn’t that be great.
  
  He said “There’s no principles, the Treaty is written. That’s it.”
  He’s got that right. But it’s all he got right.
  
  He also said“Mana motuhake is ours, it will last forever.”
  Umm not correct.
  The translation of that is “self-determination, independence, sovereignty, authority – mana through self-determination and control over one’s own destiny. ”
  Maori ceded all that to the British Monarchy in signing the treaty.
  If Tūheitia wants the treaty to “stay as it is” then Mana motuhake cannot be considered.
  
  He goes on “What I want is for the Treaty to be enclosed in the law which means [governments] can’t change nothing… Be who we are, live our values, speak our reo, care for our mokopuna, our awa, our maunga, just be Māori… Māori all day, everyday.”
  Again he can want all he likes.
  Actually, I don’t think he knows what he really wants.
  One minute he wants the treaty left as is, next minute he wants it changed.
  Does he even understand why there is even a treaty?
  It’s not a founding document – it’s a peace agreement.
  
  It would be utter madness to attach a peace agreement into any govt law.
  Doing so would open a huge can of worms.
  Does Tūheitia really honestly believe one can’t hire or fire an employee in any business unless the contents of an ancient peace agreement is first considered? – as would be the case if it was enclosed in law.
  Furthermore, if there are no principles in the treaty, then there is no law to consider.
  
  If he really really wants peace and unity, the treaty should be laid to rest – in some museum.
  
  The unavoidable fact is that even radical academics agree that the Maori version is consistent with the English versions and that Maori shall have the same protections, rights and duties as all other subjects of Queen Victoria.
  That alone puts to rest any claims of special privilege or entitlement for Maori.
  
  From what I believe many Chiefs had the treaty explained to them as they couldn’t read. If there was any mention of a partnership and they were to co-govern with the crown then why didn’t any of them start doing this?
  
  It’s just nonsense that future generations get to decide what was signed at the time and can rewrite a document written 184 years ago to suit themselves.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:03am
  - PurplePen
    
    Thought this person made a really good point that I’ve not seen raised yet on this issue. From a letter to the editor in the Otago Daily Times today:
    ————-
    Civis says “Te Tiriti … has been in force since 1840.” (ODT 20.1.24). Treaties that are broken are nullities. The Treaty of Versailles was broken by the remilitarisation of the Rhineland. The settlement of the 1939-45 war that followed was not agreed to by a revival of the Treaty of Versailles. Having been broken it no longer obtained. Similarly the Treaty of Waitangi. It was broken in 1843 and neither it nor the later land wars that were put down by British troops were followed by a renewal of Te Tiriti. Not only peace treaties but trade treaties also come and go. The first trade treaty New Zealand signed with Japan in 1928 has no force today. It became defunct decades ago. The Treaty of Waitangi has its current force because of the Treaty of Waitangi Act of 1975. As a law of the New Zealand Parliament it is for the New Zealand Parliament to define what it means on behalf of the people of New Zealand. How better to learn what all of the people of New Zealand want it to mean than by first putting a possible definition up for consultation so that those especially interested may contribute to its refinement, and then putting the refined version to a referendum?
    Rosemary McQueen Dunedin
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:19am
    - Philview
      
      The ODT gives Civis a weekly anonymous left wing column. A strange function given the editorial space generally also functions as a left wing view point. What is particularly irritating about Civis is that he/she frequently attacks centre right politicians from that safe space. The ODT doesn’t allow anonymous viewpoints from the public in the letters section.
      
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      January 23, 2024 11:24am
      - Clyde
        
        Yes, a very left wing guy. The ODT also give regular space to a couple of maori academics including that well known Meteria Turei of ex Green Party leadership fame. The background of Civis is not publicly known for reasons that are hard to understand.
        
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        January 23, 2024 12:12pm
    - Bevan
      
      The Treaty of Waitangi has its current force because of the Treaty of Waitangi Act of 1975.
      
      Why am I not shocked that a Labour government would ram through contentious legislation before being turfed out ….
      
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      January 23, 2024 11:49am
- Piniwi
  
  The MSM are still trying to control the narrative as 1Ewes and Newshub report what Willis said on the issue without footage of the interview. 1 Ewes reported that the they were “new” principles in the Bill with a liberal sprinkling of native gibberish to add to the confusion. Only RNZ was the only one that had pictorial coverage which provide what she actually said and the true context. Of more concern is what Potaka is saying and sprinkling too much Maori gibberish to confuse the majority of real meaning and context.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:16am
  - Paulus
    
    Only the so called media want to embarrass the Government they did not elect so they will side with Maori against the Government wherever they can.
    We did not vote for Maori either.
    
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    January 24, 2024 1:56pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  I suggest you all have a read of Peter Cresswell’s analysis of the debate over these proposed principles over at Not PC, Fisking The Treaty Principles Debate. Just one quote among many good ones:
  
  He says that the leaked document “confirms that the government’s intention here is not to define the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi but to erase them.”
  
  If you’ve followed what I said above, you’ll already see that’s not the case. As long as those “principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi” remain embedded in so much law, they need to be properly and objectively defined. Which is Seymour’s aim.
  
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  January 23, 2024 12:38pm
Matt Long

Heil Marama,
https://x.com/SonofOmahu/status/1749332950326603959?s=20
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/507158/opposition-parties-urge-christopher-luxon-to-shut-down-treaty-principles-bill
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January 23, 2024 8:03am
- Ruawai
  
  Debbie not Marama.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:37am
  - pdm
    
    Ruawai – hardly any difference between the two – both nuts,
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:51am
- Loddenthinks
  
  From Davidson: “Ultimately, as we can see, even the government advice is cautioning strongly that the proposed words in the Treaty principles bill will be contentious, and could splinter – and, in fact, undermine – the strong relationship of te iwi Maori with the Crown…”
  
  The strong addiction te iwi Maori have to Crown funding, separatist privileges and hand-outs, I’m sure she means.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:01am
  - kowtow
    
    There’s plenty of evidence of a strong relationship between senior National party faction elites and senior Maori faction elites.
    
    Democratic principles and the people of NZ are not well served by these relationships.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:07am
    - Piniwi
      
      Right kowtow it is strange manner in which National are walking the talk. They seem to be putting their foot forward on camera and then walking side ways when the red light goes out. It will be interesting to see which language Luxon and other caucus members use when speaking at Ratana and Waitangi. If they are permitted to speak that is.
      
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      January 23, 2024 10:31am
      - Ghost
        
        And what would be wrong with them speaking Māori, as this now member of the caucus did in 2023?
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzwfDzyzPiU
        
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        January 23, 2024 10:36am
- JackRabbit
  
  I can translate:
  
  “Shut down the treaty principle bill. There in no room for democracy and equality in a fascist Maori led country.”
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:50am
- PurplePen
  
  The problem is with the ToW and the Crown and hence our parliament is that there isn’t solid agreement on what the ToW means. Prior governments have put it into legislation, without first actually clarifying it’s meaning. More recently government has even put into legislation “the principles of ToW”. When did we ever have a select committee process to agree on these principles. It’s interpretation has been mucked around with by various official agencies but not via a specific instruction from parliament. As I see it, it behoves (love that word) parliament and the people of NZ to discuss what actually is the correct meaning of the ToW and agree on a meaning. It can’t just be a literal back translation of the Maori version, as you have to know what the parties on both sides at the time understood what they were signing themselves up for, irrespective of what the words said.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:10am
  - Paulus
    
    Was it not the idiot Geoffrey Palmer who decided on the Principles of the Treaty which have yet to be determined correctly in English first ?
    
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    January 24, 2024 1:59pm
Souvlaki

Luxon professes to be a ‘ practising Christian’ .
Can he therefore explain to this ‘heathen’, how affording preference on race follows HONEST Christian ethos ?
The seeming reneging on the coalition agreement,reinforced by his Maori affairs spokesman on ZB this morning, I see as extremely poor ethics too.
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January 23, 2024 8:05am
- Scott
  
  To be fair to Luxon I think he’s working in a moderate chairman of the board role, not frightening the horses.
  Meanwhile his bovver boys, Seymour and Peters are making the required changes.
  
  Don’t forget we have a terrible electorate full of woke woofters. So he’s calming the farm while absolutely intent on governening and making changes.
  
  This government has been notable in the way they have got stuck in and actually governed. There is so much to be done to undo the damage that Labour has wrought in almost every area of national life.
  
  But I’m reassured by their actions which have so far been excellent.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:51am
- nathie
  
  At this stage I don’t take it as reneging, I take it as Newstalk ZB’s journos trying to manufacture dissent between National and ACT.
  
  (Also take for example their news headlines this morning quoting National’s Potaka talking about the ToW (no changes) whereas Seymour is talking about Principles (a change) … two different things but ZB’s leftie journos must have returned from holiday as they are trying to portray the two parties as being at odds)!
  
  Speaking of which yesterday HDPA trying to trip up David Seymour on National “only” supporting their proposed Principles Bill to the select committee stage by playing back Luxon saying that … but I heard it slightly differently as in there is political wiggle room in Luxon’s answer – exactly what Seymour was saying all along.
  
  Time will tell and in the meantime the MSM will continue to stir the pot.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:52am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Yes, nobody is talking about changing the Treaty.
    
    The only issue is all these squishy “principles” that have been created out of whole cloth.
    
    I say “Honour the Treaty”.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:31am
  - Paulus
    
    Again Media Piss and Wind to suit !
    
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    January 24, 2024 2:00pm
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  National hasn’t reneged.
  
  They are voting for the bill to go to Select Committee (the first reading vote). The coalition agreement is clear that that is the extent of National’s formal commitment.
  
  National have also been clear that they didn’t think a referendum was necessary or appropriate.
  
  The events of the last month will have reinforced National in their view that a referendum will be divisive.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:59am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    So something should be rejected on the grounds that it is “divisive”, even when it’s clearly the right thing to do?
    
    No wonder you were such a poor MP: “I have principles, and if you don’t like them, I have others!” Hat-tip Groucho Marx.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:06am
    - kowtow
      
      Yer , funny how Nats industrial /class relations , which the left / media constantly portray as “divisive” never has a problem with Nat party insiders.
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:10am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Typical National. They will manage the country but won’t show leadership or make significant changes. For far too many Nats the main priority is to keep Labour out. This was probably fine a few decades ago when the country was generally on the right track. Right now, we are heading to a race-based system at all levels of central and local government and including a Maori only Upper House with veto over parliament. We don’t need a pause and retention of the status quo. We need a reset and a leader committed to entrenching democracy and equal rights for all citizens.
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:36am
  - Tomtoddy
    
    I would rather have the “division” arising from a review process than the “division” caused by elite Māori trying to sneak power and control over resources.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:08am
  - Souvlaki
    
    Wayne, with all due respect…you can hardly have not noticed, we are already ‘ divided’.
    Can you please explain to me why appeasing thugs, and capitulating accordingly will reduce division?Are you proposing the Neville Chamberlain approach to Jacksons threat , in his words” war”?
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:13am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Sou,
      
      I don’t think we are divided.
      
      I think what is happening is that anyone who questions the misuse and theft of public money by maori activists is called a racist.
      
      This has enabled the activists to portray themselves as victims of racism.
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:45am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Do you really think you can characterise the 10,000 at Saturday’s hui as thugs.
      
      As many here will know my wife was Tainui’s lawyer for the two major treaty settlements that Tainui has with the Crown (raupatu land and the river).
      
      I am confident in saying that the great majority of Maori and iwi are opposed to Seymour’s bill. There are two main reasons why this is the case.
      
      The first is that the Treaty/Tiriti is between iwi and the Crown, it is not up to Seymour to unilaterally redefine the treaty. The second is the actual wording of the proposed bill. It does not follow the terms of the Treaty and in fact ignores the existence of Maori. You would have to be blind to not understand why the great majority of Maori and iwi are going resist such a bill.
      
      Finally, is it really sensible for the incoming government to spend so much time on such a futile issue?
      
      I am certain that that the PM and the National Ministers see this whole issue as an enormous distraction from the main reason why they were elected. That is, to get practical things done in the economy, infrastructure, education and a host of other things.
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:53am
      - Scott
        
        In disagreement with Wayne Mapp. The three things that Act MPs were discussing prior to the election, to the great interest of the voters, were cost of living, crime and cogovernance.
        
        Cogovernance is the crown ceding back to Maori the right to run their tribal territories and to participate as partners to the crown.
        
        The people of NZ don’t want some people to be partners to the crown and some people to be subjects of the crown.
        
        This is an important even existential issue to the nation of New Zealand.
        
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        January 23, 2024 10:03am
      - Ghost
        
        The people of New Zealand? This is an act policy, not national, not nz first. Act got 8.64% of the vote.
        
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        January 23, 2024 10:12am
      - Damocles11
        
        Oh yeah, let’s get a whole lot of things done while such fundamental questions as ‘who governs New Zealand’ and ‘who owns water’ go unanswered and become increasingly murky. Have you noticed that the democratically elected governments decision to scrap the separatist Maori Health Authority is now to be the subject of a ‘Waitangi Tribunal Inquiry’? Cue yet more angst, chest beating, protests, grandstanding….and none of it by David Seymour!
        What is ‘futile’ about establishing constitutional clarity? Your attitude can best be described as ostrich-like; you are so desperate to pretend that there is really no issue here at all, and it would all just go away if not for the pesky Seymour and Peters. You strike me as a technocrat occupying a moral vacuum.
        
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        January 23, 2024 10:18am
      - Taieri
        
        The first is that the Treaty/Tiriti is between iwi and the Crown, it is not up to Seymour to unilaterally redefine the treaty.
        ———–
        
        No Wayne.
        
        The first is that the Treaty/Tiriti WAS between iwi and the Crown. The “Crown” as it was in 1840 no longer exists. And neither does “iwi” of 1840. The tribal way of living is long gone as is the Monarch as a Chief Executive.
        
        The second is that it is not “for Seymour” to “unilaterally redefine the treaty”. What Seymour proposes is a referendum on confirming the most basic rules for a free and equal society, the rules that should be considered inalienable in a modern democratic state. A referendum where a binding decision on the constitutional set up of NZ is made by the majority of voters living in this country in 2024, not by a single “Seymour”. Or by a small portion of a certain ethnic minority for that matter…
        
        The Treaty of Waitangi is an anachronistic document, which lost its utility and applicability a very long time ago, but again this is an entirely different matter.
        
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        January 23, 2024 10:20am
      - Tomtoddy
        
        Wayne, it is not “David Seymour” who wants to “unilaterally redefine the Treaty”. It is a reasonable number of voters, not just those who voted ACT. These people are entitled to have their views heard and responded to by Parliament. The Crown is represented by Parliament – it is sovereign – and can take what steps on the Treaty it chooses.
        
        There is no Bill. There has been references to what might be in the Bill only. References have been made about New Zealanders. If Māori aren’t New Zealanders what are they?
        
        Of course “Māori” are against the idea because they have been told outright lies about it.
        
        If ever there was justification that a discussion was needed it was the secret development of the He Puapua document and the remarks by Margaret Motu this morning – two illustrations of why Seymour is a statesman and Luxon is a wimp.
        
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        January 23, 2024 10:21am
      - KH
        
        Weasel Words there Wayne.
        You claim that “…. it is not up to Seymour to unilaterally redefine the treaty…”
        Who else but you said it was?
        Seymour made a proposal of a way forward. He got a place in Parliament subseqently. There was also support for the same issue from voters for the other parties in government.
        So there is now a process for discussion on the issue within Parliament.
        And noting that Seymour’s proposal is for a referendum. You know Wayne, that means we all get to agree or disagree.
        Hardly “unilateral”
        I suggest you retract on your comment.
        
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        January 23, 2024 10:48am
      - kowtow
        
        He’s not “redefining ” the treaty .
        
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        January 23, 2024 11:34am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        If the Nats really do see treaty issues as “an enormous distraction from the main reason why they were elected”, they are out of touch and not fit to represent the people of New Zealand. “The treaty” is leveraged by activists to distort the functioning of many of our institutions, including education and research funding. I was recently told by a painfully earnest “progressive” colleague that the treaty requires me to teach maatauranga in my science classes. Which is complete tosh – the treaty says no such thing. Just one example of why the meaning of the treaty needs to be clarified and legally circumscribed.
        
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        January 23, 2024 12:36pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Interestingly & technically, the Treaty itself does not use the word Maori.
        It says ‘Natives of New Zealand’, Chiefs and tribes, aboriginal inhabitants, etc.;) (and Aotearoa is not in either version, as has already been noted).
        
        The main issue is that the likes of Margaret Mutu are twisting facts in the enemedia, unhelpfully stating the ‘Treaty says this….’ even further misrepresenting it than any ACT proposed principles. Nobody calls BS on the media spokes-activists.
        I would suggest more people should read it directly, consider the context of the times, and then come to their own conclusions.
        
        ‘The Principles of the Treaty’ and ‘giving effect to the Treaty’ like we hear in public service is a distorted and fictional account of what it ever was.
        Agree though Maori in general won’t like what ACT is doing, but the enemedia are not helping us as a nation to understand the real issues and the real proposal, or WHY it is being proposed.
        ‘Rewrite the Treaty’ is simply a lie, and dangerous at that. No wonder people don’t trust the MSM to inform them any more.
        
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        January 23, 2024 12:55pm
      - pdm
        
        Wayne then there is this conversation that mrspdm was on the fringe of at the Flaxmere swimming pool yesterday morning.
        
        Maori Lady 1: `I did not expect to see you here this morning.’
        
        Maori Lady 2: `Why not?’
        
        Maori Lady 1: `I thought you would still be at Ngaruawahia at the Hui.’
        
        Maori Lady 2: `Pfffft I woud not go there – they do not know what they are talking about.’
        
        She then turns slightly to make sure mrspdm and others on the fringe of the conversation are included and can hear what she is saying and says:
        
        `It is true most of them there have no idea what they are are talking about!!!’
        
        That negates your argument above that all/most Maori are opposed to Seymours Bill,
        
        Link to my post on this at No Minister yesterday when mrspdm told me about it.
        https://nominister.wordpress.com/2024/01/22/most-thinking-maori-say-phooey-to-the-kings-hui/
        
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        January 23, 2024 3:57pm
      - Paulus
        
        Some there have doubted the 10,000 figure or people there as photographic and video evidence disputes that figure to somewhat below.
        
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        January 24, 2024 2:03pm
  - James Stephenson
    
    So as a parent, when your kids threw a tantrum, did you give in to them? How did that work out?
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:15am
  - RoboRob
    
    True, National only agreed to support to the first stage.
    
    However they should NOT let the ‘events of last month’ determine whether they support it or not going further. They should not let the usual extremists yell them into submission.
    
    National should look at what is best for the country. Labour has shown, time and again, you can do unpopular things at the start of your term and most people forget by election time. Not that I think this will be un popular, far from it.
    
    All that said, my reading from Luxon and the National Maori affairs minister is that they wont touch the treaty with a barge pole. Which is sad for NZ as a discussion of what the treaty is and isn’t would be good for NZ.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:16am
    - mawm
      
      The current interpretations of The Treaty and the Principles are dividing this country. This is an issue that has to be settled. It would be disastrous for limp National to not have a referendum on it and give in to a loud-mouth racist like Willie.
      
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      January 23, 2024 10:04am
  - Damocles11
    
    But allowing Maori separatism to continue to fester and amplify is not ‘divisive’, aye?
    Grow a pair please Wayne, the cowardly simpering of a self-styled liberal intellectual such as yourself is akin to the kind of weak-kneed appeasement which never worked whenever tried throughout history, but demonstrably only emboldens those who hate us and plot our doom. But I suppose the likes of yourself, Key, and Finlayson are so much responsible for this situation getting to where it is that you must be desperate to foist the responsibility for it onto better men such as David Seymour. The Key government laid the foundations for the radicals within Labour to pursue the incendiary ‘co-governance’ route, and if you were honest with yourself you’d admit it. People like Seymour are only trying to clean up the utter mess you’ve put the country in. (Are you a form believer in ‘decolonisation btw Wayne?)
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:23am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      “cowardly simpering” – nailed it.
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:43am
  - Grunter
    
    [Mod – debate without the personal jabs]
    
    It is such a disingenuous thing to do – agree to a select committee (costing time & $’s) that aims to fix an obvious (big) problem, but reject the findings of that committee before it even sits!!!
    
    How can you not see that for what it is?
    
    Nats = Labour Lite has never been more truthful.
    
    Under your plan, the problem (racism) will explode. You lot think you are being clever, you’re not. You are such idiots.
    
    Fix this problem. Have the proper debate. Listen to critical thinking. Stop Apartheid in NZ.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:36am
    - Grunter
      
      [Mod – have debates without the personal jabs. Debate the topic, leave the personal crap out of it]
      
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      January 23, 2024 10:58am
  - Cassandra
    
    Obviously the Principles bill is divisive and a referendum even more so. But then so was 3 Waters and saying that the tribes didn’t cede sovereignty. It’s the nature of politics. Some Maoris are protesting as they see their benefits taken away. Some pakeha are protesting because those Maoris are getting benefits that the rest of us don’t get. Where’s the Indian Health Authority? Where’s the Geriatric Health Authority? We all own the water, don’t we? Division happens. We need to sort his dichotomy out and the losers will be unhappy until they realise that equality is right.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:36am
  - Frank Hematuria
    
    Mr Mapp, I think you and your terrified colleagues in the national Party underestimate just how angry many people will become when they finally realise that Luxon has neither the ability nor the courage to stem – if not actually reverse- giving Maori whatever they demand whenever they (Maori) raise their voices. Some voters expected better than that, as Mr Luxon will find to his cost if he continues to flinch at every new Maori outburst. He may look at the polls and think he’s doing ok so far, but you can bet that won’t last.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:40am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Frank,
      
      You, and a number of the commenters who are abusing me, miss the point about National’s policy and positioning.
      
      National is a proud that they have done the majority of the treaty settlements since 1995 (most of which Act voted against) and proud of the fact that it did the deal with the Maori Party (2008 to 2017). To a very substantial extent National accepts that New Zealand is a fundamentally a bicultural (as well as multi cultural nation).
      
      National (or at least myself) basically does not accept Act’s view on these issues. For instance it is hard to imagine anyone in Act speaking about these issues in the way that Tama Potaka has done in the last few days.
      
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      January 23, 2024 10:29am
      - Grunter
        
        We don’t miss the point – we just don’t agree with it!
        
        National have the ability to confront this issue, or ignore it. As expected, they are ignoring it. They are not even prepared to listen to a select committee.
        
        Wayne, this issue will not just go away. Seymour has outlined why we should all get to vote on it. National reject this as ‘divisive’. Elections are all divisive, so should we stop elections??
        
        The Nats position is so illogical and is playing straight into the hands of the blatantly open Maori Separatists. They want Apartheid in this country. And now National is giving them a green light.
        
        National is now part of the problem.
        
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        January 23, 2024 11:09am
      - RoboRob
        
        I think there is some confusion here Wayne.
        
        Yes National did settle the majority of treaty claims. Yes they worked well with the Maori party. Neither of these things are changed by a bill that aims to clarify what the treaty is and isn’t.
        
        National, as the party that has done the most for Maori, should be keen to see this clarification because it would help the relationship between Crown and Maori.
        
        This bill aims to ‘calm’ the relationship between Maori and the rest of the country. As others have pointed out, there seems to be a rapid expansion of what the treaty means that is causing friction for other New Zealanders and for Maori themselves. It is not helpful for Maori, Media and Waitangi tribunal to believe that the treaty legislates that Maori have a separate health system, yet that is what they are being told.
        
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        January 23, 2024 11:14am
      - Damocles11
        
        So your ‘Treaty Settlements’ have sorted everything out have they Wayne, Maori were happy that restitution was made for ‘past wrongs’, and now everything is hunky dory? Turn it up.
        You got us signed up to UNDRIP, and out of that came He Puapua, then ‘co-governance’, then instructions to media on the ‘correct’ interpretation of the Treaty….thanks a lot!
        Your viewpoint is not an acceptance of biculturalism, it’s a capitulation to activists and separatists.
        
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        January 23, 2024 11:28am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Grunter,
        If you disagree with it, fair enough. But spare the personal abuse.
        National is not so much ignoring it, rather they are disagreeing with Seymour and Act’s viewpoint. Tama Potaka expressed that as well as anyone.
        
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        January 23, 2024 11:53am
      - kiwikidsnz
        
        Everything you & your National colleagues decades of unprincipled & divisive appeasement copouts to the thugs veto have done is provide very good reason why ACT will continue to increase their support.
        
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        January 23, 2024 12:28pm
      - Frank Hematuria
        
        Mr Mapp, I am sorry that you think I was abusing you, that was not my intention. I was pointing out something that as a former politician you may have deduced for yourself – that a meek and mild “at all costs do not upset the Maori” (and in particular their self-appointed spokespersons) will quite quickly see Luxon facing a backlash from people expecting change that will see National plummet. Luxon cannot be all things to all people and he will get no thanks whatsoever from separatist Maori interests for his meek and mild appeasement. If he continues to disappoint both sides of this argument his end is certain.
        
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        January 23, 2024 12:34pm
      - Damocles11
        
        ‘National is a proud that they have done the majority of the treaty settlements since 1995’
        
        ——
        
        Yes, true – Graham and Finlayson got a tremendous amount done for Maori, and just look at all the gratitude and kudos that has accrued to National from a deeply thankful Maoridom.
        Beaming with pride at your past laurels and wonderful achievements….and yet it seems nothing is really ‘settled’ and moreover Maoridom doesn’t support you and has never voted for you and never will.
        
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        January 23, 2024 2:03pm
      - Dougal10
        
        Wayne , you may have helped achieve all this stuff but the maori elite still hate your party. I feel you may be suffering from stockholm syndrome.
        
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        January 23, 2024 3:56pm
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Frank,
      
      I should have been clearer in how I expressed myself. I wasn’t suggesting you were abusing me. It was “and a number of commenters who are abusing me”, which was intended to be seperate from my comment to you.
      
      As a rule, I am not overly concerning about personal criticism, I tend to just ignore it. But if it feels like a pile on, then I might comment on it.
      
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      January 23, 2024 1:21pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    I would say that when maori constantly refer to “our people” – that is pretty bloody divisive. As is the form of Apartheid a significant minority of them would like to impose on the country. A partnership between those of one race and the government that represents all of us is divisive, There is no way around that.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:43am
  - Nukuleka
    
    What is wrong with ‘divisive’? Elections are ‘divisive’. We don’t cancel elections because some people won’t like the ‘divisive’ result. The current practice of ever- changing and ‘evolving’ treatment principles is ‘divisive’ but I don’t see the likes of Wayne Mapp criticizing that. I support David Seymour’s referendum.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:43am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Do I have to spell out the problem with your rationale? If the Nats won’t act because protesters make a noise, then the protesters get their way – every time. “Divisive” is the weakest adjective in the English language. From memory, it was one of Bill Rowling’s favourite words too.
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:42am
    - Damocles11
      
      “Peace in our time!”
      Yeah right.
      
      ‘Divisive’ and ‘racist’ are just words being used like hand grenades to clear a path for the radical separatist agenda. And people like WM aid and abet the radicals through meek submission.
      
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      January 23, 2024 11:30am
  - Matt Long
    
    Were the Te Mana O The Statements the Key government put into law decisive, I wonder Wayne?
    It sure felt like it to me.
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:56am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      The Key government did what? That lot were even worse than I thought?
      
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      January 23, 2024 12:47pm
    - Matt Long
      
      Apologies for the bad grammar, I’ve been dealing with a sick family member and missing sleep, that should have read; Were the Te Mana O Te Wait Statements the Key government put into law divisive, I wonder Wayne?
      It sure felt like it to me.
      
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      January 23, 2024 2:44pm
      - Matt Long
        
        Fortunately as things stand there’s no division in the country because everyone loves special racial entitlements.
        https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/01/23/far-north-iwi-planning-to-stop-decades-old-fishing-competition/
        
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        January 23, 2024 2:46pm
  - Couchpotatoe
    
    The Nats will not be touching this with a 10 foot barge pole after the first reading. They need to get on with effecting real change not culture war virtue signalling on behalf their coalition bedfellows.
    
    If Seymour had any real sense he would drop this as well.
    
    The ToW while not sacrosanct is too well established to be anything else other than the reason we exist as we do today.
    
    If you do not like you know where the door is.
    
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    January 23, 2024 8:50pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    WM: “The events of the last month will have reinforced National in their view that a referendum will be divisive.”
    
    Direct democracy is “divisive”. Righto. Let’s stay with reduced democracy lest anyone shit their pants over what the majority clearly want.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:42pm
BeaB

Jacinda Ardern is talking to Luxon about her Christchurch Call ‘envoy’ role. Last year, according to Stuff, she had ‘a busy few months’. What did she do? A phone call to an AI CEO, a chat with the husband of Kamala Harris (!), and a meeting in Paris. This is costing us nearly half a billion dollars for staff, domestic and international travel and security. And nothing achieved.
What a rort. I hope Luxon shows her the door. In fact, I’ll be shocked if he continues the sinecure which National has never supported.
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January 23, 2024 8:07am
- Grunter
  
  Just wait….the woke Luxon will be all over this and lap it up like a puppy. He loves this stuff. He’s a Global Boiling zealot and he needs censorship controls to enable the scam to continue.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:54am
  - Damocles11
    
    Has he ever uttered the phrase “global boiling”? As far as I know that was just a piece of extreme hyperbole from the Secretary General of the UN.
    
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    January 23, 2024 12:42pm
- alwyn.a
  
  I have been told that the “staff” referred to is the nanny, or as she gets older, Governess for her daughter Neve. She really doesn’t have the time or inclination to spend on looking after kids. Just the thing for the New Zealand taxpayer to pick up the bill for.
  
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  January 23, 2024 12:15pm
Simon

Every year, Members of Parliament declare their personal interests in a number of specific categories. Their interests are then compiled into a Register that is presented to the House.
The Register’s purpose is to provide transparency of members’ interests, and to strengthen public trust and confidence in parliamentary processes and decision-making.

https://www.parliament.nz/en/mps-and-electorates/members-financial-interests/

Members annul declaration of mental health is required. (Gweens in particular, should be doing that for all their MPs and senior staff, but patients are running that particular asylum. Its doubtful there were any guards in the first place)

Generally though mental health disclosures to provide transparency of members attempting to work their mental health issues onto the general public. Mental Health Registry to strengthen public trust and confidence in parliamentary processes and decision-making.

For e.g. What prescription meds are you on for your mental illness when you promote say criminal outreach or fight “disinformation” or appoint a climate commissioner. Present your mental health meds to the House. Its about transparency
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January 23, 2024 8:07am
- riffer
  
  I am fairly certain that what you propose there is illegal. Employers do not have the right to your medical or mental health records.
  
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  January 23, 2024 2:07pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Who’s employees are the Members of Parliament and for how long have they been covered by employment law?
    
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    January 23, 2024 2:50pm
Maggie Pie

A bestie asks…..

Why would PM Chris Luxon meet with Jacinda b4 Xmas to discuss
‘The Christchurch Call’?

To sack her hopefully 😀
What a waste of taxpayer money.
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January 23, 2024 8:09am
- Drone
  
  Maggie P, be kind, either a cheap CC call role or unemployment benefit, both will be funded by the taxpayer..
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:33am
- JackRabbit
  
  Why would PM Chris Luxon meet with Jacinda b4 Xmas to discuss
  ‘The Christchurch Call’?
  
  If case you have forgotten, that was a role created for her by Labour when she exited politics. Most people think she did a runner but she just move onto managing behind the scenes a the secret rooms at the air force base.
  
  And no doubt with a long term iron clad contract. Harvard was just a smokescreen.
  
  To ignore her, and all her Stazi connections and machinations would not be in anyone’s best interests.
  
  However, I hope Winston keeps pricking Luxon with wake up pins.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:56am
Tom Barker

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
ACTs Treaty principles Bill is dead in the water, but it’s already had the useful effect of sparking a public discussion on white supremacy
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January 23, 2024 8:11am
- Damocles11
  
  Desperate to antagonise and troll are you Tom? The discussion will be about how we can unite the country as a functioning democracy, not about the fanciful delusions of Leftist radicals.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:48am
- Yabster
  
  the discussion is more about brown supremacy lil tom- after all that’s what maori elites like Tuku underpants thinks and demands..
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:40am
- Swifty
  
  Tom Barker claims to despise racism when performed by people he dislikes.
  
  However Tom Barker just loves racism when it is performed by people he favours.
  
  All this ‘positive discrimination’ we see of late in NZ is just racism under new management.
  
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  January 23, 2024 11:02am
  - Damocles11
    
    Remember when ‘white supremacists’ were a few skin heads? Now the Leftists think that European New Zealanders participating in democracy = ‘white supremacy’. Courts, hospitals, Parliament, the police….all ‘instruments of pakeha domination’ = ‘white supremacy’.
    So there’s been no genuine rise of white supremacy; rather, the Left have convinced themselves that New Zealand itself = ‘white supremacy’. This is the madness, the insanity, via which the Left are currently bringing the calamity turmoil and disintegration down upon us.
    
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    January 23, 2024 11:37am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Gosh, I do hope the Disinformation Project people are hard at work sniffing out all the White Supremacists in our Government.
      
      The Disinformation Project has published a report showing that disinformation is contributing to a rise in anti-Māori racism and exposure to white supremacist beliefs in Aotearoa New Zealand.
      
      https://thedisinfoproject.org/2023/10/09/race-and-rage-examining-rising-anti-maori-racism-and-white-supremacist-ideologies-in-aotearoa-new-zealand/
      
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      January 23, 2024 12:10pm
      - Damocles11
        
        ‘Disinformation’ is really just any information contrary to Leftist perspectives.
        
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        January 23, 2024 12:24pm
    - Swifty
      
      The decolonisation narrative requires an enemy – something to fight against.
      
      Something that is so pernicious and evil it needs totally eliminating.
      
      To raise the outrage of the people against it you must you must label it and describe it in diabolical, totalitarian and extreme terms.
      
      However, in New Zealand, our present structures and systems, far from being diabolical or evil, actually figure in human civilisation’s best attempts at creating a prosperous, democratic and free society where human rights are upheld and absent of warlords, dictators frequent violent upheavals etc.
      
      Because formenting revolution against such a benign system is almost impossible, decolonisation proponents must, extremely dishonestly and harmfully, reach for the most damaging and extreme labels they can find hoping that at least some mud will stick.
      
      It really is one of the most disgraceful displays of dishonesty and deceit you will find in NZ society today.
      
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      January 23, 2024 12:21pm
      - Damocles11
        
        True, and it is also true that ‘NZ On Air’ official documents to media companies describe such bastions of order and freedom as ‘pakeha institutions’ which are ‘racist’.
        Tear it all down? That’s called a revolution. And we didn’t even have a referendum confirming whether we want this revolution or not, the Left just decided to go ahead with one.
        
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        January 23, 2024 12:50pm
    - ISeeRed
      
      Scary, isn’t it? White supremacy is no longer a tiny subset of racist whites preaching racial superiority. It’s simply white people existing in larger numbers than others somewhere. “White supremacists” has morphed into “(all) whites (are) supremacists”. As Elon Musk put it:
      
      “Saying only white people can be racist is obviously a racist definition of racist.
      
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      January 23, 2024 12:57pm
      - Damocles11
        
        I guess the new definition that ‘too many whites’ = ‘white supremacy’ is the key to why the Left desire mass immigration.
        
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        January 23, 2024 2:07pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Tom be sure to check for white supremacists under your bed. Just in case.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:47pm
Matt Long

Why is Stuff reporting now on a meeting between Luxon and Arden regarding her half million a year role as special envoy to the Christchurch Call? Are they trying to push Luxon not to scrap the role?
The half million is not paid to Ardern, but is costs associated with the role.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350154021/chris-luxon-meets-jacinda-ardern-over-special-envoy-job
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January 23, 2024 8:15am
- Paulus
  
  Nobody else seems to want to offer Ardern a job even in the loving USA – but she needs a Green Card to get back in – except now she is no longer single it is easier with a husband.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:18am
- Blog-aholic
  
  The only ‘role’ Ardern should have is a sauage roll.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:28am
  - ISeeRed
    
    She should only be “serving the public” fish and chips.
    
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    January 23, 2024 1:04pm
- Drone
  
  Matt, Jacinda is the role..
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:34am
- Colville
  
  Extremely smart politics from Luxon IMHO.
  Stealing the ground out from under Labour, moving a few more voters to the Blue side of the fence.
  National at 40%+ a week ago just needs to keep building momentum and the voters will forget who Labour are.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:38am
- KH
  
  “The Christchurch Call” was in play for about two days. Then history since 2019.
  Best put it out of it’s misery, and especially don’t spend any of our money on it.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:55am
- MCōs
  
  “Why is Stuff reporting now . . . . “
  
  Probably because they’ve only just been told about it
  
  “A spokesperson for the prime minister confirmed: “Christopher Luxon met with special envoy Dame Jacinda Ardern just before Christmas to discuss her work.”
  
  The position is clearly going to be terminated . . . .
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:01am
  - RoboRob
    
    Hope so, total waste of money.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:18am
  - pdm
    
    `The position is clearly going to be terminated . . . .’
    
    One certainly hopes so but, does Luxon have the gonads to tell that to Jacinda’s face.
    
    It is more likely he enjoyed having his photo taken with her.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:19am
    - MCōs
      
      Have you seen a photo?
      The meeting took place a month ago
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:29am
      - pdm
        
        Stuff this morning – could be an old photo I guess but headline does not suggest that..
        
        I refuse to link to stuff, stuff.
        
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        January 23, 2024 10:01am
      - Ghost
        
        Have you even looked at the photo, under it
        
        * Jacinda Ardern and Christopher Luxon pictured in 2018.*
        
        And if you look at his jacket is says
        
        *Christopher Luxon
        Air New Zealand*
        
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        January 23, 2024 10:16am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Old photo from 2018.
      
      I wonder how much we are paying for her security detail and how long does it go on for.
      Does the detail go everywhere with her overseas?
      
      Even Harry and Meegan pay for their own security
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:55am
      - Ghost
        
        Until people stop threatening her.
        
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        January 23, 2024 10:03am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Golriz Garment apparently got threats and wasn’t given a security detail.
        (Probably a good thing, imagine getting arrested by your own security detail for stealing)
        
        16 2
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        January 23, 2024 10:44am
      - MCōs
        
        The death threats were so bad in 2019 she was provided with security
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112882626/security-escort-for-green-mp-golrizghahraman-after-acts-david-seymour-called-her-a-menace
        
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        January 23, 2024 11:17am
      - imalwaysright
        
        MCos,
        
        Thanks for clarifying.Don’t understand why you got downticks!
        
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        January 23, 2024 12:42pm
    - pdm
      
      Ghost I just glanced at the picture and did not click o the article.
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:29pm
  - Matt Long
    
    “Probably because they’ve only just been told about it”
    I would have thought that, before Stuff became so enmeshed with Arden and her agenda.
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:11am
Tomtoddy

Margaret Motu proved why David Seymour is absolutely right in asking for a review of the Treaty, its articles and its so-called principles. Her interpretation is so radical and dangerous that it would lead to chaos.

We need to find an acceptable interpretation.
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January 23, 2024 8:29am
- Cantabrian
  
  The acceptable interpretation is found in the ‘Littlewood ‘ version, which is the document Hobson drafted for translation into Maori. The Maori text mirrors that draft. The problem is that the treaty in Maori has been and is still being translated in ways that suit the translator, not as a correct interpretation. Because the Littlewood document is being actively hidden anybody can make up whatever construct they like of the ‘official’ Maori version without rigorous challenge.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:40am
  - Piniwi
    
    Right Cantabrian and you nailed it when you said : “anybody can make up whatever construct they like of the ‘official’ Maori version without rigorous challenge” The native language means different thing to different natives and is a total mystery to the majority because of it’s ambiguity, varied pronunciation and varied application of diacritical marks. Lets say cherrio to tereo.
    
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    January 23, 2024 11:00am
    - Paulus
      
      But we are told in fact that Maori had no real or agreed language or anything else, just internal warfare including cannibalism which the Treaty was to help stop.
      What do you think a Hangi is – a modern feed !
      
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      January 24, 2024 2:12pm
- CJames
  
  I noticed she is described as an expert academic, so I assume she is a Doctor of Laws with a specialty in constitutional law. But no, she has a BSc in mathematics, an MPhil in Māori Studies, a PhD in Māori Studies specialising in linguistics and a DipTchg. So she isn’t an expert, just an entitled activist.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:48am
  - Clyde
    
    Yet another faux academic who it appears apart from some maths skills, has got all her higher “qualifications” in such things as East Polynesian radicalisation. Sucking on the state teat through being employed by the Uni of Ak. Hopefully will be looking for a real job when the new Government starts examining the costs of Universities.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:04am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      From what I remember of folks who majored in Maths in the early 1970s, they were fairly bright sparks.
      The fact that Margaret Mutu did Post-grad studies in a completely different discipline indicates she’s no sluggard.
      You mightn’t like her politics… but I rate her academically above some of the other bores who just seem to copy/paste identity politics from overseas into all their writings.
      
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      January 23, 2024 10:39am
  - David Garrett
    
    CJ: As others have said, anything with “studies” on the end of it is not a real discipline. And you can bet your arse the curriculum for a Masters in Maori Studies makes no mention of cannabilism, infanticide as a means of population control, or slavery. It will be about aroha, basket weaving, and stick games
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:17am
    - David Garrett
      
      …I forgot lots of content regarding various different forms of leaping up and down with your tongue out, and eyes bulging.
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:39am
- kowtow
  
  The Gnats aren’t interested either.
  
  Only a strong ACT vote will get any change, real change.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:49am
- Paul Marsden
  
  We did. Back in 1840. Why do the folk of today, think the folk back then who agreed to it and affixed their signatures to it, think that all the signatories back then were as thick as pigshit?
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:09am
- Burtland
  
  Mutu … ” Te Tiriti was an invitation for Pākehā to live in this country”
  
  thats a new one – is she just making shit up or what – Hobson and Busby wrote an invite to themselves to live here and got all the chiefs to sign it ! – FFS.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/treaty-principles-bill-margaret-mutu-says-bill-completely-opposite-to-what-te-tiriti-guarantees-the-front-page/SGRH2FLK4JH45LK2HGP46VWCE4/
  
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  January 23, 2024 3:27pm
Maggie Pie

Surely it’s because of shite like this Labor were thrown out on their woke arses?

Mitch needs to step in here….

https://twitter.com/DanielStar69732/status/1749363627050803240
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January 23, 2024 8:34am
- kowtow
  
  When does it go to court .
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:12am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    10am today I understand.
    Be interesting if the dudge falls for any of the bullsh!t.
    If he’d set fire to the flag, they would have been hailing him as a hero.
    
    Ardern has left a crazy mixed-up world behind in her woke.
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:44am
    - mawm
      
      She also left an emboldened nasty left behind.
      
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      January 23, 2024 10:17am
    - kowtow
      
      Thank you MP , I’ll try to follow .With interest .
      
      There’s another case brewing too .Plod and the woman lawyer .
      
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      January 23, 2024 11:29am
      - Aredhel777
        
        Following Maxwell’s hearing this morning the police have not withdrawn the charge and the case has been sent off to the next stage in a prosecution (a Case Review Hearing) in March.
        
        Holding (or expressing) strong views is not a crime. The Summary of Facts speaks for itself: if there were anything the cops had on him other than what is stated, it would be in there. This prosecution is appalling.
        
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        January 23, 2024 12:02pm
      - kowtow
        
        aredhel
        
        Thanks
        
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        January 23, 2024 1:32pm
  - MCōs
    
    That guy is a pro boxer
    He’ll probably get discharged without conviction otherwise he might have visa problems
    Apart from that going by his Facebook page he’s a bit of a fanatic. I can understand why he got in trouble with the police
    A bit like that ‘sovereign citizen’ character who pestered the Thames council with a stream of obnoxious correspondence until the mayor told him to fuck himself or whatever
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:25am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘I can understand why he got in trouble with the police’
      
      The “facts” don’t back your claim. The Cops are saying in their badly written piece that displaying a star of david was considered “violence” by the pro terrorist marchers .
      
      On that basis i think Plod needs to go round to every synagoge in the country and have a word , likewise to the israeli embassy , there’s an awful lot of hurty feelings going on .
      
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      January 23, 2024 11:28am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, when was it we last heard from Mitchell? Someone commented that maybe Coster has learnt from J Edgar Hoover and how he had the dirt on every politician,
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:32am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Hope you’re not suggesting Mitch is a closet gay commie?
    
    😀 😀 😀
    
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    January 23, 2024 9:51am
Damocles11

The entire apparatus of the NZ Leftist ‘deep state’ is attempting to put a gun to Luxon’s head, threatening violence and anarchy if the public are allowed a say on how the country is to be governed vis a vis ‘the Treaty’ and the surge towards Maori separatism and ‘decolonisation’. The broad Leftist alliance is clear: out-and-out radicals such as Debbie Packer and John Tamihere and Marama Davidson arm in arm with the likes of John Campbell (who blatantly contravenes the TVNZ Charter via his grossly partisan columns almost every week) and purportedly ‘responsible’ politicians such as Chris Hipkins.

This is the most appalling display of reckless and anti-democratic behaviour I have ever seen, and shows how far the Leftist movement as a whole has been radicalised. To think that Labour was once a mainstream political party, the NZ Herald was fondly teased as ‘Granny Herald’, public servants were there to serve the public and not to push extremist political agendas….what on earth has happened??!!

Anyone who has the temerity to suggest that it is the government that is to govern this country is now lambasted as a ‘racist’. Seymour’s courageous attempt to bring clarity to the mounting constitutional fog is being mis-categorised as ‘rewriting the Treaty’, and he is being personally vilified as a racist ogre. We are now told that democracy is an evil; it is apparently ‘the tyranny of the majority’. What is best for us is not to be decided by us, it must be decided for us by activist judges, Left wing intellectuals, the media, Maori elites and radicals, and fusty old politicians such as Geoffrey Palmer.
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January 23, 2024 8:42am
- Paulus
  
  You forget that the Media Party are also very much behind anything Maori to help embarrass the Government, at all costs.
  
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  January 24, 2024 2:15pm
Tom Barker

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
My Māori friends and colleagues tell me that frequently, and certainly since the last election, their experience of colonisation is like passing through the colon of some much larger, alien and uncaring creature – nourishing and sustaining it while being slowly and inexorably turned to shit.
It’s an intriguing, if unattractive, image.
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January 23, 2024 8:48am
- kowtow
  
  Do those friends use colonial porcelain shitters and colonial pipework to take it to a colonial treatment plant …….
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:41am
- Keith White
  
  Translation: So all your friends and colleagues are not net-taxpayers, but need whitey supremes to generate excess to supply the system that they can live off, while basically being responsible only for peristalsis.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:41am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  You might remind them that their experience of the idyllic life of pre-colonisation Maori was likely to be as a canoe-roller or a packed lunch.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:42am
- David Garrett
  
  Tom B: your “Maori friends” have clearly forgotten about woolen blankets to replace flax ones, houses with tin roofs and windows to replace raupo huts with a hole in the roof to let the smoke out , the introduction of pigs sheep and cows for meat so they didn’t need to bash so many babies’ brains out because they couldn’t feed them, and later sanitation systems so they did die of typhoid at 21 etc. etc. etc.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:44am
  - Cantabrian
    
    If the activists do get their way and we get a Maori ruler, I want reparations for all the personal and financial costs incurred by my ancestors over the last 200-odd years.
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:08am
- Damocles11
  
  Pre-colonisation Maori actually did pass through the digestive system of other Maori, literally ending up as excrement. So where you submit metaphor, I will submit historical fact. After the various species of Moa were killed off, human beings were the best available source of protein. Stronger tribes would have ruminated over the excellent food supply that weaker tribes represented, and then a raiding party would sally forth to obtain both kai and slaves. Tribal enmities intensified after the arrival of Europeans, and the availability of muskets lead to larger scale conflicts of much more brutal intensity. Part of the reason Maori chiefs sought protection within the shielding embrace of the British Empire was because internecine warfare was rapidly killing off the Maori populace, with horrendous depredations being committed by conquerors such as Te Rauparaha.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:44am
  - kowtow
    
    And they freely chose the British as colonisers cos the Marion du Fresne encounters taught them the Frogs didn’t play nice.
    
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    January 23, 2024 11:22am
- Taieri
  
  My Māori friends and colleagues tell me that frequently, and certainly since the last election, their experience of colonisation
  ——–
  
  Most of your Maori friends and colleagues wouldn’t even exist if it wasn’t for “colonisation”. They didn’t acquire their “colonial” surnames out of the thin air after all, or did they?
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:29am
  - Damocles11
    
    This another really odd part pf this whole situation: people who are of part European / part Maori descent, who literally would not even exist if not for their European ancestor/s, complaining about the ‘colonisation’ that brought them into being.
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:39am
- Swifty
  
  You need new friends, clearly.
  
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  January 23, 2024 11:11am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Before the rule of law, with slavery and cannibalism, the being pushed through a colon experience was not a metaphor for the Maori inhabitants of NZ.
  
  They can always go into the bush and wipe their arses with leaves and chew fernroot if the pre-colonial era was so great.
  
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  January 23, 2024 1:06pm
- Jake Dee
  
  And yet it cannot be denied that Māori are today stronger, richer, healthier, better educated and more numerous than at any time in human history.
  Whatever particular psychological problems your particular Māori friends express to you, it can hardly be blamed on “Colonialism”. That’s being invoked as a phantom boogie word and not as an actual description of real things.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:39pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Sound like woke “Maori” descendants to me.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:53pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Cold weather is a killer.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/freezing-weather-united-states-deaths-cold-continues/
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January 23, 2024 9:01am
- Loddenthinks
  
  That’ll be the Global Boiling again…
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:39am
- Chuck Bird
  
  More people die from extreme cold than extreme heat. Read Bjorn Lomborg.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:49am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Yes. Hence why people flock to hot climates for holidays and retirement. They don’t flock to frigid places!
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:54pm
Gravelroad

Here’s something a bit different:
Dad suggests to 6-year-old son the other day (school holidays) that he shouldn’t just help himself to chips and muesli bars for lunch again.
Find something more healthy.
“I’ll make a sandwich” says 6 year old.
Great says dad – goes back to studying phone.
Sandwich appears.
“What sort of sandwich is it” asks Dad.
“It’s a biscuit sandwich.”
“How do you make a biscuit sandwich?”
“You get out two bits of bread and butter them. Then you get two biscuits and put them in the bread.”
“Can you make me one”?
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January 23, 2024 9:09am
- Burtland
  
  child led parenting – about as good as child led education
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:37am
Damocles11

What an interesting document, covering how news media staff are to be trained in the ‘correct’ interpretation of ‘Te Tiriti’ and how they are to contribute to ‘te Tiriti relations and social justice’.
‘Social Justice’! Believing in and actioning the tenets of Leftist thought is now mandatory for budding journalists! This is really incredible stuff.

So much incredible and incendiary stuff in this document….just mind-blowing.

https://d3r9t6niqlb7tz.cloudfront.net/media/documents/2022_03_Irirangi_te_Motu_NZ_on_Air_Te_Tiriti_framework_only_for_News_Media.pdf

TE TIRITI FRAMEWORK FOR NEWS MEDIA

Jenny Rankine, Angela Moewaka Barnes, Belinda Borell, Tim McCreanor & Raymond Nairn

Tāmaki Makaurau/Auckland March 2022
Commissioned by Irirangi te Motu/ New Zealand on Air

‘This document presents a te Tiriti framework for news media as a starting point for news producers to develop their own te Tiriti strategy in ways that suit their contexts.
While this framework is grounded in te Tiriti o Waitangi and mass media obligations to Māori as tangata whenua, it may be relevant for other groups who face racism in our society.’

——

‘Rationale
As tangata whenua o Aotearoa, Māori have never ceded sovereignty to Britain or any other State. He Whakaputanga/Declaration of Independence (1835) and te Tiriti o Waitangi (1840) asserted and continue to assert Māori sovereignty, and were signed by hapū and the Crown. Te Tiriti carries rights and obligations for both parties, with implications for social justice. Despite te Tiriti, colonial constitutional practices have entrenched Pākehā systems of governance that continue today. This means our society has a foundation of institutional racism, where organisations, agencies and institutions continue to benefit Pākehā, and routinely produce policies and practices that result in avoidable inequalities between Pākehā and Māori.

[Mod – when copy and pasting, please just a small section, people can go read it if they want to]
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January 23, 2024 9:12am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Yes this is the new normal. Just invent a whole new history. Then hold everyone to this week’s “truthiness”.
  
  Bloody insulting to the Mana of the Chiefs and Tribes who signed the Treaty.
  
  Why do modern “activists” assume that Chiefs were unsophisticated rubes who were unable to exercise Agency rather than sophisticated operators navigating through difficult times?
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:46am
  - Damocles11
    
    It’s more than that. It’s the actual requirement that journalists become politicised to embrace and enthusiastically promote Leftist concepts. It is a sick corruption and perversion of our media institutions.
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:41am
- Yabster
  
  defund nz on air and TVNZ- socialist tards.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:44am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    An absolute must if we don’t want to become a broken shite-hole, or worse.
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:07pm
- Jake Dee
  
  Whenever we see the terms “Social Justice” and “Institutional Racism” employed it’s very important to press those using them for specific definitions and examples.
  Different outcomes between Maori and Pakeha maybe used. Different outcomes between Asians and non-Asians, between Jews and Gentiles may not be used.
  Different outcomes between Makes and Females maybe used as long as the answer is “Misogyny”. Different outcomes positive for women, such as life expectancy, may not be used.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:50pm
artemisia

It’s obvious that certain race issues are going to be in the headlines this year. Some say gravy train anxiety. Maybe, maybe not. However, as a backdrop it would be very helpful to see, ongoing, a detailed public accounting of all race based funding, its contracted outcomes and its actual results.

And for future or renewed contracts, a significant increase in SMART KPIs – specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, and time-bound. With particular emphasis on SMART reporting back, including where measures relate to external contracts. KPIs with a fudge factor not acceptable.

If taxpayers are providing funding, expect scrutiny. And consequences.
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January 23, 2024 9:14am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  It has been said that accountants know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
  We all know the value of race based funding.
  Now we want to know the cost of race based funding.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:50am
Yvette

From the Willie Jackson quote above –
He said the government should not be pushing ahead with the bill.
“Absolutely, absolutely not, and Luxon should show some leadership and rule it out now. This is a disgrace, what ACT are doing, a total disgrace and a slap in the face for the judiciary and all the leaders who in past years have entrenched the partnership.

“You’re talking about National Party leaders like Jenny Shipley, Jim Bolger, Doug Graham, John Key. This is just laughable and idiotic stuff that is coming from Seymour, and Luxon should shut this down now because it goes in the face of legal opinion, legal history, judiciary decisions since 1987, prime ministerial decisions from National and Labour.

Willie should ask himself Why was Pita Sharples flown in secret to New York to announce in the United Nations that New Zealand, one of the last four countries, would support UNDRIP but

reaffirms the legal and constitutional frameworks that underpin New Zealand’s legal system, noting that those existing frameworks define the bounds of New Zealand’s engagement with the declaration.

Was it because of the anticipated Opposition?

• Prime Minister John Key that day surprised the New Zealand public – who had not been consulted – by announcing the signing.

• The indigenous rights advocate who travelled to the United Nations to argue against Helen Clark’s possible appointment as Secretary-General says Miss Clark failed to uphold the interests of Māori.
Ms Ngata said the police raids at Urewera in 2007, and the passage of the Foreshore and Seabed Act in 2005 were examples of Miss Clark’s inability to stand up for the rights of indigenous people.

• “New Zealand takes international human rights and our international human rights obligations seriously. But we are unable to support a text that includes provisions that are so fundamentally incompatible with our democratic processes, our legislation and our constitutional arrangements. These provisions are all discriminatory in the New Zealand context.”

• John Key’s National-led Government, influenced by the politicking required to nurture and sustain its coalition arrangement with the Māori Party, over-ruled the Crown Law advice given to Clark.

… those existing frameworks [the Treaty] define the bounds of New Zealand’s engagement with the declaration [UNDRIP and hence: He Puapua]

Doesn’t He Puapua show how far Labour and Willie, head of the Maori Caucus, have strayed from the Treaty.

Is the document the Maori Party was waving around to incite the King’s Hui, not vaguely equivalent to He Puapua – and a hell of a lot shorter?
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January 23, 2024 9:23am
- Jack5
  
  The Wily-Willie Jackson quote in Yvette’s post has Wily talking of: … National Party leaders like Jenny Shipley, Jim Bolger, Doug Graham, John Key….
  
  Given Key’s role in chaining NZ to the UN Declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples, Luxon has a great chance of being National’s best Prime Minister, or at least best since Keith Holyoake.
  
  Shipley was at the Maori King’s talkfest. She was among “more than 10,000 there” – the number quoted by Dallow on TVNZ last night. We’d earlier heard attendance was “nearly 10,000” and “about 10,000”. With a drone and a software program, TVNZ could get accurate head counts of big gatherings.
  
  What happened in the end over the $6 million the High Court Shipley was liable for over the $110 million Mainzeal collapse?
  
  The report linked to below says Mainzeal directors were covered by liability insurance. I hope that’s correct, but good luck to Mainzeal directors getting insurance for new directorships.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/110863543/former-prime-minister-dame-jenny-shipley-ordered-to-pay-6m-over-mainzeal-collapse
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:18am
  - KH
    
    10,000 is just a funny number.
    It was being quoted from a week before the actual event. No actual headcount on the day.
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:57am
    - Jack5
      
      At Red Radio, Joanne/Mihingarangi Forbes, lifts the number at the talkfest of the Maori King to 12,000.
      
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/507201/mihingarangi-forbes-on-the-historic-hui-at-ngaaruawaahia-the-wairua-brought-them
      
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      January 23, 2024 9:57pm
      - Paulus
        
        Am told from people there with cine cameras under cover as not allowed, that it was about 5,500 only not exaggerated by media.
        
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        January 24, 2024 2:21pm
Maggie Pie

Some people are saying Greens co-leader James Shaw lost all credibility long ago.
He now looks like a lost soul, surrounded by a gaggle of screaming gays and keffiyeh wearing activists.

Word down the Viaduct is he’s thinking of pulling the plug.
Rumor is that PM Chris Luxon may be considering him for the top job at the ‘Climate Change Commission’ when Rod (The Beard) Carr steps down as Commissioner later this year. Let’s not forget Chris was happy to send Jimmy to the COP meetings in Dubai last year with National’s Simon Watts.
It’s all sort of falling into place.
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January 23, 2024 9:31am
- Damocles11
  
  No matter what he decides to do, Shaw will always be a contemptible fraud.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:33am
  - Grunter
    
    But the woke Luxon agrees with him on the Global Boiling scam. So who is worse….??
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:05am
    - Damocles11
      
      Shaw.
      
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      January 23, 2024 10:41am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Shaw is the only actual environmentalist left in that quagmire of marxist narcissism.
  
  He still might be part of the climate cult but he would be the only one who cares (in an ideological) way about the environment.
  
  He is only months away from being ousted as ‘leader’ so he’ll take his over inflated salary until the totally unqualified Carr is gone.
  
  Whether he wants that job or not it will be the only one he is likely to be offered after being poisoned by his watermelon.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:40am
  - Graeme Hall
    
    The myth of James Shaw, the environmentalist lingers on & on & on..
    
    Recall that in August 2017 James Shaw planned to expel the only two MPs in the Green Party who had some expertise in the Climate Change debate. They resigned first. This move was to protect a self-confessed fraudster & his Green Party co-leader.
    
    Now tell me again why Shaw is an ‘actual environmentalist’ with genuine credentials.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/green-mps-quit-in-protest-over-metiria-turei/JDESR64Y45FBLN2XUWSSN46WVI/
    
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    January 23, 2024 2:22pm
  - Paulus
    
    Blimey, whatever Shaw still need a job which pays – not another Charity one.
    
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    January 24, 2024 2:23pm
- Burtland
  
  an arsonist in charge of the fire department – what could go wrong?
  
  Barry Brill gave a great summary of the makeup of the climate commission recently
  https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/01/barry-brill-nz-climate-change.html
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:00am
- Ruahine
  
  Is Luxon quickly lining up well paying sinecures for both Ardern and Shaw? Who is next I wonder. Willie Jackson perhaps.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:01am
  - nathie
    
    Maybe Luxon has a role for Willie as NZ’s first deep space astronaut?
    
    Bonus for Willie, when he finally reaches Alpha Centauri he can claim it for the “right kind of Maori”! Whoop whoop! Whooz da Man!
    
    Oh …. ahem, and the English, Chinese, Ashkenazi Jews, Africans and Spanish!
    
    https://twitter.com/NZMAGAMike/status/1699609185082859840
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:36am
    - KH
      
      Maori were already on Alpha Centauri years ago.
      
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      January 23, 2024 10:59am
      - Ghost
        
        True, Māori have a history of space travel…. As evidenced in this Photo
        
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        January 23, 2024 11:05am
      - Damocles11
        
        And appropriating aspects of Mandalorian culture as well.
        
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        January 23, 2024 12:55pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Only a fool would appoint a political rival as Commissioner.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:26am
  - nathie
    
    Good point, maybe send Shaw to the Auckland Islands for an very important role as “Guardian” i.e. protect the environment and ensure no oil and gas exploration occurs there. Live like a true greenie off the grid.
    
    No plastic or oil based products please so definitely woolen clothing only. Vital communication via HF radio a la Gilligan Island Professor styles or maybe smoke signals when there is a southerly.
    
    Makes up for all the air-miles and jet pollution he contributed to global boiling …
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:48am
  - Burtland
    
    we should send Shaw to Gaza, seems keen on the Palestinians
    
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    January 23, 2024 11:13am
  - kowtow
    
    The two big pahti’s ( yer I know the Gweens aren’t) but they have a very cosy , mutual back scratching arrangement when it comes to such appointments.
    
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    January 23, 2024 11:17am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Check this out.
  
  Barry Brill: The NZ Climate Change Commission is broken
  
  https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/01/barry-brill-nz-climate-change.html
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:53am
  - Burtland
    
    is Brill angling for the Commissioners Role ?
    
    6 3
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    January 23, 2024 11:15am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I doubt it; he’s 83 years old….
      admittedly he’s on the ball, and would be a vast improvement on Rod Carr.
      
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      January 23, 2024 12:47pm
Damocles11

David Seymour deserves our support. He reminds me of the marshal in High Noon; one man facing down evil alone while the town dithers over whether it will stand with him.
By trying to restore democracy and coherence in New Zealand, he has made himself a target for the rabid Left and the moral cowards on the Right. He is the only man with the courage to give us all a say in the direction New Zealand is going; not even Winston Peters is prepared to give New Zealanders a say in matters of grave constitutional concern. When they call him a racist, an idiot, a divider, we should speak up against such gaslighting and Leftist hate. History will vindicate Seymour, but these are some of the most important days in our nations history: do we capitulate to the radicals and the Leftists, or do we stand up?
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January 23, 2024 9:32am
- septic skeptic
  
  Well said Damocles.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:53am
MCōs

Dexter Scott King, younger son of Martin Luther King, died of prostate cancer today
He was 62. His Dad would have been 95yo
https://x.com/officialmlk3/status/1749528027204341770?s=61&t=yFkzCNMWRCaVt1p5eRxUog
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January 23, 2024 9:50am
Lee C

This just in from CNN:
“Trump in New Sex Scandal – This Could Ruin His Chances at Running for President”
https://youtu.be/y93LGPDIjRY
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January 23, 2024 9:52am
- JackRabbit
  
  Sorry, don’t read fiction.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:00am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Another one? That took longer than this Deity expected.
  
  Still at least he doesn’t sniff kids or demand 10% for the big guy….
  
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  January 23, 2024 1:34pm
Souvlaki

This article by Karl du Fresne , on John Campbells anti govt ‘crusade’ is worth a read. I hope Winston Peters reads it too….🤣
https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2024/01/the-john-campbell-question.html?m=1
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January 23, 2024 9:54am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Maybe John could join his bestie Matty McClean as co-host of ‘The Hits’ Drive Show?
  
  They have sooo much in common 😛
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:05am
  - Jack5
    
    The du Fresne article is a classy summary of the John Campbell phenomenon.
    
    Campbell’s a live science-fiction story. Control fails in a weepy, droning robot that rails against the organisation that provides the “juice” – the electricity.
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:45am
    - Damocles11
      
      The whole media has been conditioned to embrace the tenets of Leftist thought and reject anything else. It’s not just Campbell.
      
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      January 23, 2024 10:49am
- Damocles11
  
  The whole media is on an anti-government crusade, including the media at taxpayer owned TVNZ. And indeed they have been pre-programmed into this approach by the last Labour government. I posted a document from New Zealand On Air that is proof that journalists and those who run the likes of One News have been instructed to pursue ‘social justice’ and ‘the correct interpretation of ‘te Tiriti’. They have been instructed that ‘pakeha institutions are racist’. And then we act surprised when these journalists attack the new governments policies just as their training pre-programmed them to do. Ignorance may be bliss, but being hopelessly naive is something else altogether.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:48am
  - Burtland
    
    someone with “sideburns” is going to have to step up and take a chainsaw to the media otherwise its three more years of this crap – is Melissa Lee the right chap?
    
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    January 23, 2024 11:25am
  - Paulus
    
    I have read above that NZ ON Air has a Committee of some six people – all Maori I assume, despite names, who have provided details of all things Maori to, I assume, TVNZ and RNZ so we continue to get Maori down our throats if we now bother to watch and or listen to their language crap.
    
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    January 24, 2024 2:27pm
- David Garrett
  
  Souvlaki: That’s a brilliant piece…I particularly liked this bit:
  
  The finely balanced relationship between journalists and the government, whereby politicians accept the inconvenience of a critical press as the price of an open democracy, is at risk of being destabilised when one side is seen as wilfully defying the established norms – which is what Campbell has been doing with his series of assaults on a government that’s ideologically not to his liking
  
  I remember the oleaginous Campbell for one interview above all: his unctuous hand wringing interview with “Pants Down Brown” after Brown had had sex with a much younger member of the Auckland Council staff. Many times. In the Council offices (Too cheap to spring for a room in a motel)
  
  After composing his face in a suitably bleeding heart sympathetic way, Campbell’s first question was “So Len, how are you coping?” NO mention during the entire “interview” of the young woman Brown had been apparently fucking for some time, and in particular, no enquiry about how she was coping. The man is a disgrace.
  
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  January 23, 2024 1:31pm
  - Bobba Fret
    
    I never saw that interview David, but I do remember John Campbell interviewing Meteria Turei after she admitted the benefit and voter fraud. He was nearly in tears, and apologised for asking her about it!
    
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    January 23, 2024 3:00pm
Cassandra

HDPA: David Seymour’s argument against critics is the simplest. He accuses them of protesting against equal rights for all. For his opponents to counter that, they would have to go where they haven’t yet and argue that Māori deserve more rights. It’s not an argument that will land well with many middle-of-the-road voters.”
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January 23, 2024 10:05am
- Blog-aholic
  
  And that is why Seymour has nailed them.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:23am
- MCōs
  
  Equal rights for all
  Didn’t I read that someone had incurred some crazy amount of parking fines?
  If they have tons of dosh it’s like water off a duck’s back
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:35am
  - Damocles11
    
    Your life will be defined by your envy and your Quixotic pursuit of a mirage called ‘fairness’.
    
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    January 23, 2024 12:27pm
waripori

The nuances of what different versions and translations of the Treaty say , or can be said to say, are lost on 95% of the population. Probably a small majority have a vague notion of the three articles.

A decent Select Committee hearing where sensible arguments from proponents of both sides are put ( accepting there will be crazies as well ) and an understandable set of principles are put in front of the public will be helpful.

When organisations like Curia start publishing polls that show 79.1% in favour , 8% don’t know and 12.9% against the Nats might have to reconsider whether the Bill should pass and a referendum happen.
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January 23, 2024 10:25am
- kowtow
  
  PM Ardern wasn’tone of them.
  
  But she was Amazeballs.
  
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  January 23, 2024 11:12am
- David Garrett
  
  wari: In 2008 ACT got this into our confidence and supply agreement: ” National will support The Bill [three strikes] at first reading, and thereafter give it full and fair consideration”. Although that is somewhat better than what Seymour has been able to extract regarding the principles of the treaty Bill, it was still to all intents and purposes meaningless, and everybody – especially the journos – knew it.
  
  I well remember Rodney calling me in one night and saying “Your job is to make this meaningless commitment mean something”. I managed to do that with a willing Judith Collins, but it is fair to note that with Luxon publicly proclaiming that the Nats will support his Bill no further than first reading, Seymour’s justice spokesman has a far inferior hand than I had.
  
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  January 23, 2024 1:40pm
  - waripori
    
    Have to see how it unfolds David. You know a lot more about how this works than I do. I do think Seymour will have a strategy based on his experience with the Euthanasia bill.
    
    We could well see polls showing overwhelming support for the bill and I cant really see Luxon ignoring that. At present he can sit on the sidelines . let the vitriol and heat dissipate over time and have Seymour take the heat if any. Seymour will be happy with that as it gives him profile.
    
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    January 23, 2024 6:19pm
Ghost

Always amazing the stupid names parents want to burden their children with

New Zealand’s declined baby names of 2023 revealed
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January 23, 2024 10:30am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Although a bit surprised to see ‘Fanny’ on the list.
  I’ve heard lots of people say they know Fanny Adams.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:41am
  - Paulus
    
    Oh, she is Sweet !
    
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    January 24, 2024 2:29pm
- lifesgood
  
  Poor kids if they’d had those names. They’d end up the same way as most kids with silly name syndrome- behind bars.
  
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  January 23, 2024 11:27am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  So ‘Mister’ might be okay?
  
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  January 23, 2024 11:47am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Can Trump’s momentum be stopped?
The Trump Train is up and running. Last stop is 1600 Pennsylvania, Washington, DC.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/can-donald-trump-s-momentum-be-stopped/ar-BB1h5wXi?
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January 23, 2024 10:34am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Pennsylvania Avenue*
  
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  January 23, 2024 12:02pm
- NothingLeft
  
  The Dems are contriving to have him convicted and jailed before the election. That will cost him a few percent of swing votes and will likely be enough to hand the win to Biden.
  
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  January 23, 2024 1:57pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Nope. The more publicity Trump gets the better.
    He will not go to jail. He will pass GO and win yugely!
    Short of Trump being assassinated the Democrats are a fucked unit, and they know it.
    Tell you who is going to jail. Joe, Hunter and the crooked Clintons. They will not escape Trump this time.
    Oh, unless the Dems cheat of course, like they did last time! 81 million votes? Pig’s arse!
    
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    January 23, 2024 4:35pm
Maggie Pie

Yet another person has been hit and killed by a Train.
This time in Meadowbank.
Commuters are told to expect…. ‘long delays’

Public Transport ‘eh. Why do people even bother?
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January 23, 2024 10:35am
- sirknz
  
  Incident is on the Western Line so services are cancelled on the Eastern Line and also on the Southern line between Britomart and Otahuhu.
  
  Make this make sense.
  
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  January 23, 2024 11:40am
  - NothingLeft
    
    It’s summer and public transport workers want to go to the beach.
    
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    January 23, 2024 11:49am
  - lifesgood
    
    It happened in Meadowbank. I saw the helicopter and heard the sirens…about 9.30am today.
    
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    January 23, 2024 3:52pm
- GJM
  
  In the UK and Europe, they hose off the blood and keep on going. No way will they shut down the Underground because of a crazy, and now dead nutter.
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:19pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    A lot of these cases are intentional suicide. Someone’s brother, son, father, mother, sister etc. Also the effect on the train drivers for whom it is physically impossible to stop the train in time, is usually devastating, with long lasting psychological effects.
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:15pm
  - Ghost
    
    Yeah, I don’t think you know what you are talking about. And to show what a rubbish comment you made this is from 2 days ago
    
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/london-railway-chaos-as-trains-are-cancelled-between-reading-and-paddington-due-to-emergency-incident-affecting-the-elizabeth-line/ar-BB1h0fu8
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:19pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
The Treaty seems to be whatever the activists say it is.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/maori-are-swimming-in-a-sea-of-treaty-ignorance/
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January 23, 2024 10:42am
- JackRabbit
  
  What I want is the Treaty to be engrossed [sic] in the law…so they can’t change nothing
  
  Such poor Maori grammar.
  
  Should be “…so they can’t change nuffin…”
  
  Truck Driver wants it engrossed in law, but says the courts won’t understand it, but the marae will…
  
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  January 23, 2024 11:37am
Ghost

Sigh, another creep sent back here

A Kiwi ex-pat who tortured his three-year-old son in Australia is set to be deported to New Zealand…

Nearly two decades later, in 2022, Ogier was jailed for 20 months after he pleaded guilty to seven charges of using electronic communication to expose a child under 16 years in an indecent manner….

A close family member who didn’t want to be identified, told Stuff “absolutely everyone” in the Christchurch community should be on “high alert for themselves, children and businesses”.
“He is highly obsessive with children and hurting them.
“To be honest I feel a huge relief that he will no longer be in Australia.”

Article
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January 23, 2024 10:45am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Ghost, I would appreciate you posting articles, like that one cited, every Tuesday evening. Our refuse is collected early every Wednesday morning and such articles would provide me with a timely reminder to put the rubbish out.
  
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  January 23, 2024 11:11am
  - kevn
    
    Tau… That is what Aussie is doing, ‘putting the rubbish out’.
    
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    January 23, 2024 12:10pm
  - Ghost
    
    Perhaps we can look at his ancestors. If they immigrated from the uk then we deport him there and then the uk can ship him off to their penal colony, Australia?
    
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    January 23, 2024 2:27pm
Vinicius

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Re the ongoing debate about the Treaty of Waitangi.

I’m over it and sick of hearing about it. I think there are more important issues the government needs to deal with.

Vote below:
Thumbs Up: You’re over it.
Thumbs Down: You think the ongoing debate is important.
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January 23, 2024 11:10am
- Grunter
  
  Vinicius – they’ve got you! That’s exactly what they want the masses to conclude. That is Nationals strategy, ignore it, head in the sand, and it will go away…. Except it won’t.
  
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  January 23, 2024 11:28am
- Damocles11
  
  I’d like to discuss something else but unfortunately the separatists and radicals aren’t likely to say “oh, you’d like to focus on something else? Ok, sorry, we’ll pack it in”. No matter how much you and WM want to plug your ears and desperately pretend this all ain’t happening, it very much is.
  
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  January 23, 2024 11:44am
- JackRabbit
  
  I think there are more important issues the government needs to deal with.
  
  Vini, What do you think the top five or ten issues are?
  
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  January 23, 2024 11:51am
  - Vinicius
    
    1. Economy & government finances
    2. Governmental reform (public sector, regulation reviews etc.)
    3. Crime – law and order
    4. Healthcare
    5. Education
    6. Transport and infrastructure reform
    7. Local government
    8. RMA reform
    9. Housing
    10. Electoral reform (referendum on 4 year term, shakeup of Electoral Commission)
    11. Immigration.
    
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    January 23, 2024 2:04pm
    - KH
      
      Suggestion to Vini.
      Make “protection of democracy” your number one.
      Because the rest of your list depend on that.
      
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      January 23, 2024 3:05pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      #1 in my book is the Covid vaccine inquiry. Deaths from the vaccines are continuing to mount, it is in thousands, not just directly, but also induced from immune system collapse, and spin marketed as long Covid.
      
      And the next fake pandemic is in the planning for next year close to the USA election. They have the vaccine already they are just working on the virus.
      
      #2 has to be the treaty or as KH says, protection of democracy, because your entire list depends on it.
      
      Example: Your #1
      
      1. Economy & government finances.
      
      If it is a partnership, as the terrorist elites say it is, how much are our feather cloaked friends stumping up to cover finances?
      
      Currently Maori Trusts are part of the black economy – they pay no tax. That would need to go.
      
      Your #4 Healthcare.
      The best of our health system workers have left over the vaccines. How are you going to fix the health system when it is rotten to the core.
      
      The public were told no vaccine exemptions, even if you had immune issues. Safe and effective.
      
      But Bloomfield granted exemptions for between 11,000 and 20,000 people in the high castle of health and govt on the basis if they get the “safe and effective” vaccine and drop dead or get injured, who will run the govt departments and hospitals?
      
      And that is on top of Dear Leader having a saline shot on public TV, because of international convention (and conventions are higher up than mandates) that country leaders and key country execs are NOT allowed to take experimental drugs or vaccines.
      
      I suggest you start perusing all the released OIA requests over the vaccines, to get your priorities in order.
      
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      January 23, 2024 8:32pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  The activists are trying to deny us our democratic rights. What’s more important than that?
  
  12 0
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  January 23, 2024 12:49pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Their tyrannical rights?
    
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    January 23, 2024 1:43pm
- kowtow
  
  There’s literally nothing more important than the constitution and or democratic principles which are being rubbished byb the Establishment Elite in favour of the made up, undefined and undemocratic tow principles .
  
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  January 23, 2024 1:38pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  @2.05pm 83.3% for debate
  vs
  16.7% for ‘over it’.
  
  Maths means that more people want a discussion about this very imporant topic and less people want to keep their heads in the sand (or in places the sun never shines).
  
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  January 23, 2024 2:07pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It is good that more and more Kiwis are becoming aware that the Waitangi Tribunal plan since 1975 was designed to rip New Zealand off.
  Please educate yourself more on the real Treaty in Maori translated form the Littlewood Draft is the real Treaty – and not the rogue James Freeman Version that the Waitangi Tribunal and the Elite keep ramming down our throats.
  The last 3 generations of Maori do not want to lose their Gravy Train freebies so they will even get violent about their modern day rogue Treaty.
  Wake up New Zealand, the Coup is happening!
  
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  January 23, 2024 5:02pm
- Jake Dee
  
  Disagree.
  ToW issues lie right at the heart of government and so touches on all other issues.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:55pm
imalwaysright

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350154788/60-bypass-budget-spent-without-kilometre-finished

The real scandal is that WakaKotahi spent $7,500,000 on a “business case” for a 6km stretch of road.

I wouldn’t mind reading that tome.
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January 23, 2024 11:18am
- David Garrett
  
  Imalways: Yeah, I noticed that…I am not really sure what a “business case” is, but I’d sure like to see a cost breakdown on this document…literally millions to “consultants” I’ll be bound.
  
  21 0
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  January 23, 2024 12:13pm
- imalwaysright
  
  $1250 per metre of road to find out if its a good idea to build the road.
  
  This is why we can’t have nice things.
  
  9 0
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  January 23, 2024 1:47pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Paying consultants buckets of money to produce nothing of value is just giving license to corruption.
  
  9 0
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  January 23, 2024 3:48pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    And despite pocket pissing and buying votes with projects like this, they still lost the election.
    
    2 0
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    January 23, 2024 8:34pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh No……….

https://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/gisbornes-ambitious-30-year-plan-aims-to-transform-into-the-cycling-capital-of-new-zealand
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January 23, 2024 11:20am
- Burtland
  
  the infection spreads
  
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  January 23, 2024 11:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Do you have cycle lanes?
  Build them and they will come! You just know the Council and the Greens are thinking of this now.
  
  5 2
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  January 23, 2024 1:45pm
- JackRabbit
  
  I though Gisborne, being the furtheres east, was the first place to see the sun light every day. Not sure how that is possible when collective council heads are firmly stuck where the sun does not shine.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:38pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    First place to see the sun.
    
    Last place to see the light.
    
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    January 23, 2024 10:39pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I was in Gizzy last week. Seemed to operate ok without cycle lanes.
  
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  January 23, 2024 10:40pm
Swifty

Farewell Norman Jewison:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12993527/Norman-Jewison-dead-97-Director-Heat-Night-Fiddler-Roof-Moonstruck-passes-away-peacefully-following-acclaimed-40-year-career.html

I loved ‘In the Heat of the Night’.
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January 23, 2024 11:39am
- artemisia
  
  Moonstruck – a perfect jewel of a movie.
  
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  January 23, 2024 6:55pm
Swifty

Restoring land into native forest – The Tīmata Method:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p8KHO4W–5E
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January 23, 2024 11:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  But where does it stop? Do people want cream on their porridge – do they want porridge? Do they want butter on their toast – do they even want toast?
  Do they want milk?
  Do they want that lamb leg on the BBQ? Do they want warm woolen clothing and carpets?
  So yes erosion is a problem, but how much of a problem?
  
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  January 23, 2024 1:54pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Steve, you are being extreme. Everyone knows that those things you mention come from a supermarket.
    
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    January 23, 2024 8:39pm
Maggie Pie

WATCH

Follow up to my earlier post about Daniel Star’s court appeareance this morning….

https://twitter.com/SimonRAnderson/status/1749560703101632704
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January 23, 2024 11:45am
- KH
  
  Yes Maggie. A real dick.
  
  5 1
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  January 23, 2024 3:08pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yep, he is not allowed to have free speech because he had an Israeli Flag.
    Then with no flag he is still arrested, but NZ Police are nice guys right?
    Pro Palestine crowd had their protest, but Maxwell was taken aside?
    There is something rotten going on with the seniors in the Police Force – all the way up to you Cuddles Coster!
    
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    January 23, 2024 5:13pm
- MCōs
  
  Daniel Star or Daniel Maxwell?
  
  Either way most of the relevant tweets are blocked
  
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  January 23, 2024 3:17pm
- Ghost
  
  I can’t get it to load, but is that the same guy that was deported for this?
  
  https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/daniel-maxwell-pleads-guilty-to-affray-and-common-assault-in-relation-to-death-of-cole-miller/news-story/cc053e5e91f99d408ba3bc233575edbb
  
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  January 23, 2024 3:26pm
  - MCōs
    
    That guy is Daniel Jermaine Lee Maxwell, not Daniel Roy Maxwell
    
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    January 23, 2024 5:26pm
    - Ghost
      
      Thanks, I still can’t get twitter to load
      
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      January 23, 2024 5:33pm
septic skeptic

National need to come out right now and clarify their position. Is it:
A. That they are not committed to supporting Seymour’s Bill but will listen to submissions and then make a decision.
B. That they have committed to not supporting the Bill regardless of the select committee process.

Is the latter their actual position or a misrepresentation by the media to paint them into a corner.
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January 23, 2024 11:50am
- JackRabbit
  
  The media paint reality they way they want it to be. For the truth you have to get it from the horse’s mouth. For everything else, you have to try the other end. Which is where the media get their stories.
  
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  January 23, 2024 8:41pm
Damocles11

A new column about Golriz Ghahraman from far Left activist Simon Wilson in todays marxist NZ Herald. No I haven’t clicked on it, I can see the synopsis on their Facebook page. The actual synopsis by Wilson himself is this: “If we really knew what it’s like to live with those threats “continuously”, wouldn’t there be a national outcry? Or are we kind of ok with it?”
So Wilson is kind of saying that can’t know what it’s like to live with ‘continuous threats’, but at the same time we should know, and the fact that there is no ‘national outcry’ seems to indicate that we may be ‘kind of ok with it’.

I only have James Shaws’ word for it that there have been ‘continuous’ threats from 2017 to 2024, a period encompassing many years. Apparently I am just supposed to believe Shaw without engaging any critical thinking. I’ve seen nothing from the Police about all this, no statement to say he is 100% correct, no statement advising why the perpetrator(s) has not been apprehended and charged. Apparently you can routinely make death threats in New Zealand and there are zero consequences. Who knew that? I certainly didn’t.

Aside from that, the message has been reinforced once again, this time by Wilson: people who have been under stress will typically relieve that stress by furtively shoplifting at multiple retail stores.

Predictably the accompanying photo of GG captures her if the most flattering light possible. I’m used to photo’s of Luxon from the exact moment his tongue stuck out momentarily, or when Wayne Brown happened to blink.

Anyway, GG is apparently a saint and we have all failed her by not being more ‘empathetic’ and not raising a ‘national outcry’ about ‘continuous’ threats lasting many, many years that nobody knew about or sought to prevent until the exact moment where she was caught engaging in shoplifting.

One final thought: comments on the article have been turned off by the Herald on Facebook. Contrary opinions are not welcomed, free speech is ‘the enemy’.
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January 23, 2024 12:12pm
- Ghost
  
  You can Google and see a few articles on the , one where she was given parliamentary security because of the threats that they saw.
  
  The abuse of politicians current and former on both sides needs to stop.
  
  As for Golriz, it’s now up to the courts
  
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  January 23, 2024 12:24pm
  - Damocles11
    
    I’m interested in what *the Police* did as regards ‘continuous’ threats. What they did to catch the perpetrators & whether the threats were indeed ‘continuous’ as stated.
    
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    January 23, 2024 12:31pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      It’s a pretty hopeless situation.
      
      Even when the cops score a conviction for someone making death threats to a politician, lawyers & appeal Judges might overthrow it.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/conviction-quashed-for-michael-cruikshank-who-sent-threatening-emails-to-jacinda-ardern/PXJ7HBNVSVBWPPPXV5ROQQRPEE/
      
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      January 23, 2024 1:00pm
      - Jack5
        
        The poor old judge is given the blame – from the report linked to by Maggy Wassilieff:
        
        Lawyer James Carruthers argued that the judge during the trial should have given jurors better direction regarding how intoxication could play into their verdict.
        
        The three-judge Court of Appeal panel agreed.
        
        Do lawyers live on another bloody planet? In any random selection of 12 NZ citizens, as in a jury, what are the chances that there is not knowledge of how alcohol affects decisions and actions and responsibility?
        
        Or, or, or … will algorithms of fabled artificial intelligence do a better job than human juries, and lawyers be replaced by AI geeks arguing about flaws in verdict algorithms?
        
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        January 23, 2024 3:46pm
      - fernglas
        
        ” In any random selection of 12 NZ citizens, as in a jury, what are the chances that there is not knowledge of how alcohol affects decisions and actions and responsibility?”
        The legal issue of how intoxication is relevant to criminal responsibility is fiendishly complicated and would be beyond the ken of any jury without proper instructions from a judge. In this case they clearly weren’t given those instructions.
        
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        January 23, 2024 7:01pm
  - BeaB
    
    I bet there’d have been no mental health problems if she hadn’t been caught.
    
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    January 23, 2024 12:34pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  As Paula Bennett stated the other day about these ‘threats’ – suck it up buttercup.
  
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  January 23, 2024 12:26pm
  - Ghost
    
    Actually paula has supported her and this is part of what she said that you are misrepresenting
    
    Golriz Ghahraman’s explanation – ‘I believe her’: Paula Bennett
    
    Many years ago now one of my family members was handed a note at school and told to give it to me. It was a personally abusive message from the mother of the child who passed the note to my family member. The children were 12 years old.
    
    I still get comments based on some absolute lies that someone spread about me. I genuinely think he is unwell and can excuse his behaviour. What I can’t comprehend is it being shared more than 100,000 times and a reputable media company going to report it until I personally spent thousand of dollars on an injunction.
    
    Some of you will say we deserve it. Some of you will find this all amusing. I find it disgusting and it is part of the reason I left Parliament……
    
    Some will think I am playing the victim and I hate that. The only answer is what I used to tell myself – suck it up, buttercup and just hope it doesn’t escalate to the point where you make irrational choices and blow up your whole life.
    
    I don’t have an answer on how to change it. All the reviews in the world won’t change the structure and the blood sport that it is. But something does have to change and talking about it is a good start.
    
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    January 23, 2024 12:40pm
    - Blog-aholic
      
      suck it up buttercup.
      
      Still stands.
      
      8 2
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      January 23, 2024 1:30pm
- BeaB
  
  Why don’t they just turn off their social media?
  
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  January 23, 2024 12:34pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Where was The Horrid’s ‘award-winning-journalist’ with his ‘Opinion Piece’, when Tom Scott sang about …..wanting to kill John Key and rape his daughter?
  
  No wonder Brownie suggested sticking photos of Simon Wilson in the urinals 😀
  
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  January 23, 2024 12:40pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  How would Wilson have penned his article if – purely hypothetically – the facts of the GG story were transferred onto someone like Nicola Grigg?
  
  14 1
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  January 23, 2024 12:45pm
  - MCōs
    
    The article isn’t primarily about G²
    It’s about the abuse public figures attract and other names are mentioned, including himself
    
    6 5
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    January 23, 2024 2:31pm
    - Ghost
      
      The problem when people see a headline and post about it without bothering to read the article.
      
      7 1
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      January 23, 2024 2:42pm
      - Damocles11
        
        People see the headline ‘Simon Wilson: Empathy, accountability and abuse in Gharaman shoplifting accusations’, and then somebody else wants to argue that the piece isn’t about empathy, accountability, and abuse in the Gharaman shoplifting accusations.
        
        4 2
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        January 23, 2024 3:27pm
      - Ghost
        
        Go read the article and you will see you have missed the whole point of the article
        
        2 3
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        January 23, 2024 3:32pm
      - Ghost
        
        The last paragraph might help you understand the gist of the article that focuses on the abuse many have encountered
        
        We don’t all share the responsibility for this. It’s not us stoking that fear. Not all of us.But we are responsible when we let it pass. SovCits believe their views are legitimate. Many of the people who make violent jokes about women do too.When we let it pass, we let them believe they are right.None of this means we shouldn’t have political debates or that those debates shouldn’t include criticism of politicians. Ideas need to be contested, bad policy (however you define it) should be opposed and people in public life must be held to account.But it would be nice to have a code of behaviour. Some rules for good in a bad world. So how about this:1. Don’t gender your criticism.2. Don’t call anyone cockroaches, vermin or animals of any kind. They’re people.3. Don’t talk about killing or harming others. Even as a joke.4. Call out bad behaviour. Maybe do it with humour.All of those things amount to one thing: don’t help to normalise violence.I know, I’m not holding my breath. But I do think it’s how we should behave.
        
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        January 23, 2024 3:39pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Damocles11 @ 3:27PM
        
        The fact remains, Damocles11, you commented on an article without reading it first, and ended up with egg on your face. (You know as well as the rest of us, that headlines don’t always accurately reflect the content of the ensuing article.)
        
        But, instead of saying, in response to Ghost, “Okay, I admit it, I got that one wrong”, you chose to dig your toes in. You simply couldn’t bring yourself to admit you messed up, that you were wrong, could you?
        
        1 6
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        January 23, 2024 4:00pm
      - Damocles11
        
        Ghost, your latest post is of a big screed from the article, but it still reads as a lecture about how we all need to do better – presumably so GG doesn’t feel inclined to shoplift.
        
        5 2
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        January 23, 2024 5:05pm
      - Ghost
        
        You actually need to read the article because once again you show you have failed to understand what it is about. But then if you read it you wouldn’t be able have your whinge because you would understand the articles focus very little on her and more on the abuse people on the left and right are receiving and how it needs to stop
        
        5 5
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        January 23, 2024 5:22pm
      - Damocles11
        
        Read it. I stand by my viewpoint: the content of the article and the headline are inextricably linked. This article would never have been written if GG had not been caught shoplifting.
        
        5 3
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        January 23, 2024 5:34pm
    - lifesgood
      
      “including himself” well, well, well, sounds like chickens coming home to roost.
      
      4 3
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      January 23, 2024 3:46pm
      - MCōs
        
        Are you suggesting that’s it’s fine to throw ‘horrible abuse at him from time to time’ rather than merely disagreeing with that which he writes?
        
        1 5
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        January 23, 2024 4:08pm
- Ghost
  
  You really do need to read something before you comment about it. The article talks about the abuse Judith Collin’s got, the abuse Simeon Brown is getting. The abuse journalists are getting, council staff, civil servants. Your post actually completely misses the whole point of the article.
  
  9 5
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  January 23, 2024 2:49pm
  - kowtow
    
    Anything about the rank abuse the ordinary citizen gets ?
    
    Locked up , medicated , threatened ,rampant crime , lied to , taxed ,over rated , inflated prices , loss of sovereignty , loss of democratic rights ……….
    
    9 2
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    January 23, 2024 3:22pm
  - Damocles11
    
    ‘Empathy, accountability and abuse in Gharaman shoplifting accusations.’
    
    8 2
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    January 23, 2024 3:27pm
  - BeaB
    
    I guess nice middle class newspaper readers need to be lectured to about how to behave. Especially by Simon Wilson.
    
    10 1
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    January 23, 2024 3:42pm
    - Jack5
      
      Beab’s …nice middle class newspaper subscribers need to be lectured to …
      
      6 0
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      January 23, 2024 4:02pm
    - MCōs
      
      I would have put it differently, but clearly there’s a heightened degree of meanness out there compared to some years back . . .
      
      2 3
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      January 23, 2024 4:19pm
      - Damocles11
        
        You can blame the radical Left for that.
        
        5 2
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        January 23, 2024 5:07pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  How many people actually read his bile?
  
  0 0
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  January 23, 2024 10:22pm
BeaB

Nearly half a billion dollars to provide Ardern with staff, international and domestic travel and security for her pointless vanity project?
It’s an outrage.
If we have that much money to throw around give it to Starship or choose any one of a long list of projects that need the money.
I just hope Luxon has thrown the whole stupid idea into the rubbish bin.
24 5
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January 23, 2024 12:32pm
- Ghost
  
  Have you got a link for that because all I can see is half a million dollars, not billion, which would be insane
  
  13 1
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  January 23, 2024 1:11pm
  - BeaB
    
    Oops. . Misread the noughts. Still a ridiculous amount of money for a vanity project for her and Macaron
    
    13 2
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    January 23, 2024 3:41pm
- Wayne Mapp
  
  There is a tradition that PM’s tend to support prior PM’s after they have retired. Part of civility and respect for office.
  
  Typically by appointing them to things like the Chair of Te Papa and the like. A degree of public recognition without any particular political intent. National supported Helen Clark in her quest to become Sec Gen of the UN, with a reasonable amount of funding for travel and admin support.
  
  I presume Luxon will continue this approach with Ardern.
  
  4 21
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  January 23, 2024 1:49pm
  - Burtland
    
    so what reciprocal support did Key get?
    
    16 0
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    January 23, 2024 2:36pm
    - Jack5
      
      For Sir John Key, his beloved Hawaii put the Union Jack onto the islands-state flag. Presumably because of the Key enthusiasm for flags. 😀😂
      
      https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/hawaii-state-flag.html
      
      2 2
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      January 23, 2024 4:22pm
  - Damocles11
    
    The genteel civility of the old boys (and girls) network.
    
    Look at the ‘civility’ of Labour, unleashing the ‘co governance’ disaster on this country, look at the ‘civility’ of the contempt and vitriol of the likes of Hipkins and Robertson towards National.
    
    13 1
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    January 23, 2024 3:02pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    “Part of civility and respect for office”
    
    AKA A cosy arrangement between two parties that are both past their use-by date.
    
    11 0
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    January 23, 2024 3:26pm
  - lifesgood
    
    He supported Helen to get rid of her. Let’s hope they can find some dead loss spot for Jacinda overseas,
    
    12 1
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    January 23, 2024 3:44pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      She seemed to like Antartica. Liked reading a book on the way down there.
      
      7 2
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      January 23, 2024 5:52pm
  - Cassandra
    
    If it’s Chair of Te Papa (unpaid) then okay. But $500,000 expenses on her vanity Christchurch Call? NO. She’s milked that cow for all it’s worth. No more.
    
    26 0
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    January 23, 2024 3:54pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    The phrase
    “There is a tradition that PM’s tend to support prior PM’s after they have retired. Part of civility and respect for office”.
    can be neatly translated into’
    “There is a tradition that one hand washes the other.”
    Without losing any semantic significance.
    
    1 0
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    January 23, 2024 9:01pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    WM: “Part of civility and respect for office.”
    
    All good when everyone plays ball in that regard. The last mob showed a total disregard for democracy. They had their day in the sun and now the show’s over. They can simply piss off as far as I’m concerned.
    
    0 0
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    January 23, 2024 10:27pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ3zGHE8Xzk
Trump Declares War on Central Bank Digital Currency!
The GOP doesn’t like CBDCs, and nor does Trump. The government could switch your bank account off. Social credit scores under another name.
12 1
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January 23, 2024 12:56pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B27lV_jG9U
Fani Willis Plays Race Card.
Fulton County DA Fani Willis & Loverboy Prosecutor Nathan Wade: A Love Story Of Corruption .
7 1
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January 23, 2024 12:56pm
Maggie Pie

A bestie re ‘X’s…..

All this ‘white-supremacist’ shit is nonsense! Pushing it like this dilutes its true meaning when describing actual white supermacists.

https://twitter.com/1NewsNZ/status/1749575169410998672
13 1
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January 23, 2024 1:21pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I imagine by next week those of us of a very pale hue will be referred to as white supremacists.
  
  Somehow this country has exploded with white supremacists in the last few months….they seem to have infiltrated every crevice in our motu.
  
  23 1
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  January 23, 2024 1:29pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Around here we refer to it as….. ‘anal bleaching’
    
    12 3
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    January 23, 2024 1:37pm
- NothingLeft
  
  supremacist is just the te-reo spelling of taxpaying sucker.
  
  18 0
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  January 23, 2024 3:21pm
Maggie Pie

Fool me once….shame on you.
Fool me twice….shame on me.
Fool me 3 times….fukit, I’m pressing charges.
18 1
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January 23, 2024 2:34pm
Ghost

A third charge has been laid in relation to shoplifting allegations surrounding former Green Party MP Golriz Ghahraman.

Article
23 0
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January 23, 2024 2:36pm
- lifesgood
  
  That article made me vomit. What a lying, hypocritical thief. Mental health??? What utter rubbish.
  
  19 3
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  January 23, 2024 3:42pm
- Rumblestrip
  
  It looks like Stuff and the Herald have decided on the adjective “embattled” to describe GG. Or they might only describe her as a “former Green MP.”
  
  I’m still waiting to see them employ the term they happily used for a number of other MPs, who departed in far less scandalous circumstances: “disgraced.”
  
  20 0
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  January 23, 2024 4:18pm
  - MCōs
    
    I’ve had a look at the article referred to above by Ghost that caused lifesgood to vomit (yeah right) and the adjective ‘embattled’ isn’t used.
    
    2 5
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    January 23, 2024 5:05pm
    - Rumblestrip
      
      You’re right. Stuff can’t even bring themselves to say “embattled” as NZ Herald, the ODT, 1 News, Newshub, Newstalk ZB have.
      
      7 0
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      January 23, 2024 5:56pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Seems it could be a girl’s game between GG and another.
  Say no more.
  
  4 3
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  January 23, 2024 5:58pm
Its only I

Trump mocking Nikki Haley is like a colostomy bag mocking its contents.
5 15
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January 23, 2024 2:48pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The joke’s not funny, but the TDS is hilarious.
  
  19 4
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  January 23, 2024 3:55pm
  - Its only I
    
    Krazykiwi your not stupid or a snowflake by any measure and I enjoy your posts… yet… any mention of trump makes you act like the worst of a Jacinda luvy.
    
    I’m surprised your so besotted by any man regardless of who it is based on your posts.
    
    I know for a fact if Trump was being Trump for the blue team instead of the red you would be taking the piss out of the situation way harder than anything I would post…at least I hope you would.
    
    8 4
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    January 23, 2024 4:23pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      I know how to separate the Trump person from the Trump administration. The man is boorish, but the evidence of his administration’s strong performance is lying in plain sight.
      
      Now, since it appears to be a choice between Trump and whoever Biden’s handlers smuggle to the front of Dem consciousness, and seeing the utter destruction visited upon the USA under Biden’s presidency… how could anyone not want Trump to be the next president?
      
      7 1
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      January 23, 2024 5:52pm
      - Its only I
        
        Simple, Trump will be locked up for his crimes.
        
        2 4
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        January 23, 2024 6:50pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        QED TDS
        
        0 0
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        January 24, 2024 7:23am
- NothingLeft
  
  Trump’s fucking annoying – but generally seems to make decent political choices. The only other option is Biden or some other democrat elite puppet, who you know only represent corporate and far-left interests.
  
  When the choice is herpes or cancer, I’ll take the herpes.
  
  11 3
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  January 23, 2024 4:49pm
  - MCōs
    
    There are other choices on both sides of the political divide
    
    0 2
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    January 23, 2024 9:11pm
k1w1

Further to Matt Long’s post above re the 1News report that Northland Iwi are planning on blocking boat ramps to prevent a 40-year fishing competition from taking place… I don’t want to overblow this, but this has the potential to be a very big problem. Loads of hairy-arse fishermen (I’m one) keen to fish – you do not come between a fisher and his chosen activity – blocked in a public space by a bunch of law-breakers, is likely to get out of hand and violent very quickly. The cops need to shut down this threat and fast. Way to go, Northern Iwi – you’ll not get a lot of sympathy with this threat.
36 0
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January 23, 2024 3:00pm
- artemisia
  
  Wikatana Popata – why does that name ring a bell, previous form? LOL.
  
  Mr Popata’s comprehension is sadly lacking. He is getting a good amount of airtime though, so there’s that.
  
  Popata said in a wider context, their stance against the competition was also in response to the Government’s proposal to abolish Te Tiriti O Waitangi.
  
  15 0
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  January 23, 2024 4:19pm
  - Swifty
    
    Street thug:
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/man-who-assaulted-schoolboy-witnesses-to-be-re-sentenced/ZQABB4WC3PYGXMBK76P57N3ZXU/
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9218744/Harawira-nephews-jailed-for-drunken-assault
    
    Assaulted the PM:
    
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6eyzT_3rETE
    
    15 0
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    January 23, 2024 5:05pm
- Damocles11
  
  The Iwi has described the ocean as their ‘tribal waters’ and has described the fishing contest as ‘racist’.
  
  ——
  
  ‘The post goes on to say the stance from Ngāti Kahu is also in response to the government’s proposal “to abolish Te Tiriti o Waitangi”.
  
  “We never ceded sovereignty. We have been patient for 183 years.”
  
  The fishing comp organiser Nick Ryan says the fishing competition will go ahead and he has confirmed with police that iwi can’t block public access.’
  
  20 0
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  January 23, 2024 4:20pm
  - k1w1
    
    It’ll be popcorn time to see them try and block the ramps. Further, there will be a LOT of local Maori entering into this competition. Northlanders can be a strange bunch (anti-Auckland as well) but this takes the cake.
    
    15 0
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    January 23, 2024 4:39pm
  - Swifty
    
    Racist eh?
    
    I wonder if that view is shared by the hundreds of Maori who will take part?
    
    17 0
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    January 23, 2024 4:55pm
  - kowtow
    
    ‘has confirmed with police that iwi can’t block public access.’
    
    Big change from the covid days then.
    
    That was when Plod said closing roads for race reasons was “policing by consent’, which of course it wasn’t.
    
    17 1
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    January 23, 2024 5:46pm
- MCōs
  
  From what I can determine there is one iwi involved
  
  3 0
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  January 23, 2024 9:29pm
- David Garrett
  
  k1: This bullshit is the entirely predictable result of continuing to kowtow to the Special People. I can seriously see civil war happening in this country.
  
  0 0
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  January 24, 2024 10:16am
Maggie Pie

NAME THIS DANCE…

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1749452004148076813
6 1
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January 23, 2024 3:56pm
- Ghost
  
  Oh that’s the fuck I forgot to wear a mask dance
  
  6 0
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  January 23, 2024 4:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It is the “Man who has no car and will never have a car” dance.
  
  1 3
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  January 23, 2024 6:23pm
greybeard

I was doing some housekeeping and came across this doozy: anyone remember it ?
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2018-09/Our%20Plan.pdf
Maybe Mr. Luxon should get a copy.

[Mod – please include a brief description of links so people know what it is]
5 1
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January 23, 2024 4:05pm
- Swifty
  
  Snigger….
  
  5 0
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  January 23, 2024 4:25pm
- greybeard
  
  Sorry Mod: the article ( created by/sponsored by) Jacinda Ardern purports to be a list of things Labour wanted to do / promised to do, back in the early days of her disastrous “reign”.
  Basically just a load of crap.
  
  11 0
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  January 23, 2024 5:40pm
  - PurplePen
    
    My tablet froze trying to open it. Tablet seems to have a better mind of its own than me.
    
    8 0
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    January 23, 2024 6:17pm
Chris Nisbet

One minute we’re being told here in Auckland to expect long dry spells this summer, and to conserve water even though the reservoirs are full. Nek minnit we’re being told to expect heavy rain and storms, and to expect flooding in places it hasn’t flooded before.
We’re told that “the changing climate” we’re seeing more extreme weather, but is it really changing that much, and are we really seeing more extreme weather?
One thing seems certain, weather forecasts appear to be changing much more quickly than the climate.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2024/01/auckland-council-warns-of-possible-intense-rainfall-risk-of-flooding-this-summer-due-to-el-ni-o.html
16 0
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January 23, 2024 4:47pm
- Ghost
  
  Ah well, at least that’s not as bad as NIWA’s forecast for us last week. The coming month could be a drought, it could be normal rain, it could be above average rain. Covering all bases.
  
  11 0
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  January 23, 2024 5:04pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Auckland Council don’t know shit from brown rice pudding.
  
  4 3
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  January 23, 2024 6:29pm
Maggie Pie

Just heard HDPA talking to the ZB Australian correspondent.
Apparently there’s a new series of ‘MAFS’ AU hitting our screens on Feb 5th.
Heather had the cheek to call it “absolute crap” …and even denigrate those who watched it.

Can’t help but think the age-difference between her & Bazza might be rubbing off 😛
8 2
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January 23, 2024 4:54pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, I thought all ZB regular hosts were on garden leave?
  
  3 0
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  January 23, 2024 5:32pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Nope.Just the Hosk and Keri to come bak now.
    Letz hope we see the arse end of tose other 2 oddballs,,, Rowmann & Rocksblah 🙁
    
    11 1
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    January 23, 2024 6:41pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The old afternoon guys are pretty wet too.
      
      1 0
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      January 23, 2024 10:45pm
- Prince
  
  Or maybe she just has standards.
  
  5 0
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  January 23, 2024 5:38pm
Ghost

New Zealand is deploying a six-member Defence Force team to the Middle East region to uphold maritime security in the Red Sea, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says.

“Houthi attacks against commercial and naval shipping are illegal, unacceptable and profoundly destabilising.

Article
9 1
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January 23, 2024 5:00pm
- Jack5
  
  The Houthis say their ship attacks are in support of Hamas.
  
  So NZ servicemen are going on the line, as it were, against an ally of Hamas.
  
  Where does that leave Green MPs flaunting black-and-white keffiyeh head scarves, a symbol of solidarity with Hamas?
  
  16 1
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  January 23, 2024 5:15pm
  - Ghost
    
    Yeah, wonder if the greens will support our team……. Should be interesting to see when the house sits next.
    
    8 0
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    January 23, 2024 6:06pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Are NZ allowed to take guns?
  Asking for Hamas.
  
  6 4
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  January 23, 2024 6:32pm
- Jake Dee
  
  I’ve plenty to say about this mess but I’ll save it for a more opportune time.
  But in short, I’m all for NZ developing its military capabilities but this is one fight we should stay a long way away from.
  Is there any faction in this 5 cornered fight that ISN’T a bunch of lunatic fanatics?
  
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  January 23, 2024 9:20pm
Jack5

Each refugee taken in by NZ leads to nine new citizens, says Michael Laws talking to Hilary Calvert on the Platform.

Discussion of NZ immigration is becoming edgy after the latest biggest surge.

https://youtu.be/c5ULsTEyzeg?si=Lf5miS0TeZd0YjQe
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January 23, 2024 5:04pm
surfing

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/never-bothered-to-include-us-members-of-northland-iwi-threaten-to-stop-annual-fishing-comp-block-boat-ramps/ar-BB1h6soI?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=4bade1240622482e9b36f9d63e99fffb&ei=8

This Maori wants the power to make up his own laws in his tribal area. In other words, the sea is owned by local maori, and people now need this guys permission to use it. His authority is based on being born in the area.
14 0
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January 23, 2024 5:51pm
- graham
  
  surfing, see Swifty’s comment.
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/01/general_debate_23_january_2024.html#comment-3504128
  
  The Popatas – who happen to be Hone Harawira’s nephews – are not exactly fine upstanding citizens by anybody’s definition.
  
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  January 23, 2024 6:56pm
Ghost

This gets you home detention. What the hell do you have to do to get jail and if an immigrant kicked out.

Article

Singh touched the 13-year-old’s stomach and reached out to touch his genitals, legs and face, before the boy moved out the way and ran home….

The victim was then at a sleepover at his friend’s house in March last year, when they decided to “play a prank” on Singh, the summary said.

They messaged Singh on Snapchat, who then requested to see naked pictures of the boys, and sent them a video of him masturbating.

The boys agreed to meet Singh, who parked on the road nearby. The 32-year-old said he would give them $20, asked to see their genitalia, and asked them to come for a ride and “play with him”. They said no.
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January 23, 2024 6:29pm
- Jack5
  
  The new government needs to tighten up membership of the Immigration & Protection Tribunal.
  
  This outfit has often overruled moves to deport ratbags from NZ. It has 17 or 18 members.
  
  Time to make the tribunal less lenient and woke.
  
  4 0
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  January 23, 2024 9:07pm
Maggie Pie

I no a lot of you here will probaly thnk it sacriledge.
My partner just opened a bottel of Penfold Grange that been chilled overnite to 4 deg c.

Honestly….its absolutly fab!!
6 3
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January 23, 2024 6:36pm
- greybeard
  
  All of mine in the past have been superb at 6 deg c.
  Try it, let me know how you feel.
  
  4 0
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  January 23, 2024 6:57pm
- Aquarius
  
  What year ????
  
  4 0
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  January 23, 2024 7:18pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Just went and retreved the bottel from the recicle bin….2017
    
    4 1
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    January 23, 2024 7:54pm
    - Aquarius
      
      Tks; too soon…..
      
      0 0
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      January 23, 2024 10:43pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  That’s an approx $1200 bottle?
  
  https://www.vineonline.co.nz/penfolds-grange-south-australia/p
  
  0 0
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  January 23, 2024 10:33pm
Ghost

John Campbell – Heart disease press release
3 0
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January 23, 2024 8:42pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  klikbate!
  
  0 3
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  January 23, 2024 9:05pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  That’s the excellent DOCTOR John Campbell. Not to be confused with NZ’s lefty media guy.
  
  4 1
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  January 23, 2024 10:35pm

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A SUBMISSION ON LONG TERM TAX AND OTHER POLICIES
NZCPR
Govt to spend $2m on a maths teaching pilot (and pupils might learn that 2 + 2 is not as culturally obvious as it seems)
Point of Order
Word of the day
Hompaddock
THE BIG DAY
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
What would Sumner say about Trump and Vance’s pro-tariff rhetoric?
Not PC
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
NZ media’s “propagandisation” of the US Election
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
US military-industrial-sports complex.
Kiwipolitico
Pretty (il)legal
Croaking Cassandra
Where are the food carts?
Offsetting Behaviour
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

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